#1 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 5, 2002 7:51am Subject: Welcome to the group! Introduce yourself if you wish. commie_fan Hello to everyone reading this. Welcome to this group! The main purpose of this group is to get folks like myself all into one place, and to share the info we all have with one another. And whenever possible and appropriate, to have some good clean, video game related fun... nothing wrong with doing that! :-) One thing I should probably mention, up front, is that I do NOT consider the "Interton VC-4000 console group" to be a forbidden subject of some kind. In fact, I encourage discussing that topic since the Interton is sort of the "prequel" to the Arcadia 2001 and there is a lot of inter-mixed history between the two console groups. I just started this message group, so I'll go first in introducing myself. My name is Ward Shrake. I have been involved in "Digital Archaeology" since the mid-1990's as one of my more serious hobbies. (For the record, I did not invent that term. I just use it a lot.) As I use the term, this involves spending time trying to dig up the hidden history of certain old computers and/or video game consoles. I do it mostly because I just like old games, the technology associated with them, and the artwork that helped sell them. Even back in the 1990's, I saw that plenty of other folks were already covering the more popular and better-known computers and consoles, so I sort of carved out a tiny niche for myself, among the more obscure systems. Linked to these message boards is the web address of a web site that I run, about the "Arcadia 2001 console group"... http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ There is tons of info there already, including a FAQ or "Frequently Asked Questions" text. Hopefully, as we share info and learn from one another here, that FAQ will become larger and / or more accurate. Besides running that Arcadia-related web site (and starting this new message board), I also run one of the larger Commodore VIC-20 web sites. (If you ever wonder why my name on these groups shows up as "Commie Fan" ... well, now you know.) In addition, I also am also one of the authors for the "Digital Press Collectors Guide". I started writing for them in 2000, during Version Six. I'm currently working on my Arcadia 2001 and VIC-20 sections for inclusion in Version Seven. (I also wrote the Coleco Telstar Arcade section, but since it is all of one page, I don't really count it.) So that's plenty about me for now... who are you? Introduce yourself! Ward Shrake #2 From: "slydc" Date: Fri Apr 5, 2002 9:53am Subject: Hey! Hey!! slydc Hi Ward, Now this is more interactive than sending e-mails, that's for sure! You should send invitations to anyone who has helped out for the FAQ as well for the DP Guide. Hope that the numbers of membres will grow soon. --- Sly DC --- #3 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Apr 5, 2002 8:35pm Subject: Re: Hey! Hey!! Hi everybody, still have to get used to how this works, but at last we have a common group where we can leave our feedback. Great. Does anybody know Jaguar Interactive (besides Matt)? This is a cool system. 4 From: "oboissea" Date: Fri Apr 5, 2002 10:09pm Subject: Arcadia nerds oboissea So this is where we will exchange info ?! Nice... This is well help us know better each others. See you mates --- Olivier Boisseau olivier@... www.old-computers.com 5 From: stefanpiasecki@... Date: Fri Apr 5, 2002 6:18pm Subject: Re: Arcadia nerds stefanpiasecki Hi, I am Stefan. Are you also getting every posting in copy to your mail account? This is rather strange, isn't it? Stefan 7 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 7:23am Subject: Recommended site usage instructions commie_fan Hi all. Ward here, with some quick tips on how best to use the "Arcadia 2001 consoles" message boards. There are a few personal hints, made to supplement the web-based help that Yahoo! provides. For the record, the message board web site is located at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/ There are three basic ways you can choose to use these boards. You have to tell the service how you want it to treat this message board. The basic idea is this: do you want to go to the web site, or does the web site send its information to you? All these options may sound a bit complicated, but it is not bad once you get used to it. It is just "Yahoo!'s" way of trying to give you lots of options, because each actual message board is different. Each one is set up with certain expectations, by the owner, that they can not easily predict, so they give us all choices to customize things. It can delivery everything posted to you as seperate e-mails, as they come in. That is one option. (I like this option least of all for this group, but it makes sense for other types of groups.) It can also lump all of one day's worth of postings into one big e- mail, and send that big e-mail to you only one time per day. (This makes sense in some cases; it is up to you to choose it or not.) A third option is that you can choose to ignore e-mail messages entirely. If you choose this, you actually visit the web site where the boards are located, whenever you want to see what others are saying, or you want to say something. (That's my favorite option for this message board group, and the one I hope others will choose.) Assuming you are registered with "Yahoo! Groups" already, and you are able to visit and access the message boards OK, here are your specific customizing options... ========================== (1) You can choose to use these message boards strictly as a web site that you visit, at your whim. You can turn off any and all e-mails coming to you from these message boards. (This is how I have my access set up, to this group and "BallyAlley".) To do that: Go to "My Groups" and then "Edit My Groups" and then "Message Delivery". Set the option to say "No e-mails". That's it. (2) You can choose to see what everyone else is saying, through e- mail delivered to your computer. If you want messages to come to you in one big lumped-together e-mail, one time per day, then: Go to "My Groups" and then "Edit My Groups" and then "Message Delivery". Set the option to say "E-mail digest". (3) You can choose to see what everyone is saying, through e-mail delivered to your computer. With this option, instead of one big e- mail sent once per day, you get individual e-mails, as they come in. Go to "My Groups" and then "Edit My Groups" and then "Message Delivery". Set the option to say "Individual E-mails". ======================== Hopefully that makes sense? If not, just say so and I'll try to clarify it. Thanks for listening! Ward Shrake 9 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 8:02am Subject: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books commie_fan Editorial note -- This is the initial posting on a subject I hope others think about, and add information to. The way I plan to keep the conversation half-way organized and easy to understand, is for me to post the RUMOR all by itself (as one seperate post). Then the responses will come after it, with one posting per response. Other people can then read what was said so far, and respond accordingly. ========================== RUMOR: Part of the reason that there are so many "Interton VC-4000" and/or "Arcadia 2001" consoles all over the world, is that chip- maker "Signetics" published the console design schematics in public literature, such as their hardware "data books". (Signetics made the 2650 processor chips used in both systems. Signetics also made the Interton's 2636 co-processor chip, and the Arcadia 2001's "2637" co- processor chip; that much is fact.) Signetics may have printed programming examples in public literature, showing everyone interested how to program simple games for their system. This allowed anyone in the world with manufacturing technology to easily make the system. If this rumor is proven to be true, it changes the now-accepted view of video gaming's history in at least one minor way. Game consoles from the 1990's -- such as the "3DO" -- were talked about in company literature as if they were the first console that was designed by one company, and that any other manufacturer was allowed to build their own version of the console. This was said by 3DO officials to be the first time this marketing concept had ever been invented or tried in gaming. -- Ward Shrake -- 10 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 8:08am Subject: RUMOR: Phillips and Magnavox were involved in the Arcadia 2001 commie_fan Editorial note -- This is the initial posting on a subject I hope others think about, and add information to. The way I plan to keep the conversation half-way organized and easy to understand, is for me to post the RUMOR all by itself (as one seperate post). Then the responses will come after it, with one posting per response. Other people can then read what was said so far, and respond accordingly. ========================== RUMOR: The companies "Phillips" and/or "Magnavox" may have been involved very early on, in some way we do not fully understand yet, to help to create the global "Arcadia 2001" console group. -- Ward Shrake -- 11 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 8:19am Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books commie_fan This is offered as partial SUPPORT for the RUMOR that Signetics printed schematics in data books, thereby helping to create the global spread of the Arcadia 2001 console group. This is text from an auction posting message originally found on eBay. It has been edited for inclusion here, but Ward only deleted things that were irrelevant to this discussion, such as shipping terms and so on. The source's quoted wording was left unaltered. Note that this unknown source simply made a statement, and did not offer verifiable, independent proof of his/her statement. (It was interesting to hear this comment being made, nonetheless.) Note also that it is not 100% clear from this person's quotes whether they are talking about published schematics for the Interton, the Arcadia, or both systems. The person's wording was not that precise. -- Ward Shrake -- ===== quoted material follows ===== "eBay item 1265290807 Hanimex Arcadia 2001 clone with 6 games_files Location Springvale, VIC Country/Region Australia/Melbourne Started Aug-15-01 02:42:07 PDT Ends Aug-22-01 02:42:07 PDT Seller dr.ido (39) High bid glenmcbride (9) Description: Hanimex HMG2650 game console Hanimex rebaged or cloned a lot of stuff in the early 80s. This is an Emerson Arcadia 2001 clone. The genuine Arcadia 2001 was released in 1982, but it was never released in Australia. I'm not sure when Hanimex came out with this. Hanimex wasn't the only clone to make it here. The advantage the Hanimex has over the other clones is they didn't change the cartridge connector, so this machine will play both Hanimex and Emerson carts. It's one of only 2 consoles that I can think of that are based on the Signetics 2650 CPU (the other being the Radofin 1392 and variations thereof, which were also sold by Hanimex in Australia). The video, sound and controller chip is also a Signetics part. Perhaps this machine was cloned so much because the design came straight out of the Signetics data book? :)" 12 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 8:25am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Phillips and Magnavox were involved in the Arcadia 2001 commie_fan This is offered as partial SUPPORT for the RUMOR that Phillips and/or Magnavox were somehow involved in the creation and/or distribution of the "Arcadia 2001" console group. -- Ward Shrake -- ===== Quoted material follows ===== From Eckhard Stolberg to Ward Shrake, via e-mail in April 2002: "The mysterious company that designed the 2636 and 2637 based video game systems was Signetics/Phillips itself. Signetics was owned by Phillips at the time, and when they had finished the 2650 and 2636 chips in 1978 or so they tried to sell these chips to potential customers by designing a prototypical video game system around them and writing some demonstrational games for this design. Phillips also owned Magnavox, who held the patent on video games. So Phillips took the 2636 based system and offered it to those companies who made these dedicated TV-Tennis consoles and had bought an official license for that from Magnavox. Some of these companies, like Interton from Germany, also bought a license for the 2636 system and it's games. The actual design of the production PCB as well as the case-, controller- and cartridge-design was left to the licensees, which explains why there are several system families with different cartridge connectors and different copyright notices on the PCB. Some of the games came from Signetics/Phillips directly, while others were created by the licensees themselves. This explains why some games appear on all system families, while others are exclusive to one company only. A German electronics magazine (Elektor) even expanded the design by adding some RAM, a monitor BIOS ROM, a hexadecimal keyboard and a tape interface. They published this design in 1979 as an article series about a video computer system. They also sold the demonstrational games from Phillips as well as some self created programs on tapes for their readers. In 1982 or so Signetics/Phillips had created a new graphics chip, the 2637, which they also created a video game design for, and offered it to anyone who wanted a license. Interton also was working on a system based on this license, but the company closed down in 1983 before they could release it. I don't know how UA Limited fits into this. But maybe they were a Hong Kong based company that also bought a license from Phillips. They then created a system and some games and offered it to various distributors around the world. Hanimex for example is a company that distributes lots of Asian electronics in Europe. They also sold video games for the VCS by a Hong Kong based company named Video Gems in Europe. Most of the information about Interton I got from an email discussion with Hans-Heinz Bieling, who programmed some of the games for the Interton VC-4000 in 1982/83 before the company folded. So that's a pretty reliable source I think." 13 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 8:41am Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books commie_fan This is offered as partial SUPPORT for the RUMOR that Signetics printed schematics in data books, thereby helping to create the global spread of the Arcadia 2001 console group. The quotes below are from Paul Robson to Ward Shrake, in e-mail during April 2002. This was Paul's response to Ward, who had asked Paul for any sort of technical or historical information that Paul might have had regarding the Interton or Arcadia consoles. Ward has edited the original e-mail; deleting private off-topic comments. Although the technical comments are somewhat off-topic for this message thread (they are mostly discussing the Interton console), they are most definitely appropriate for this message board. Ward chose to leave them intact and unedited. (Thanks for the info, Paul!) Paul Robson is the first person that ever wrote a modern software emulator for playing games on the Arcadia 2001 console group. (In Ward's opinion, Paul's technical credentials are well established; anyone that can write a working emulator without ever having seen or owned the original console, has my deeply awed technical respect!) -- Ward Shrake -- ===== Quoted material follows ===== "The Acetronic is kind of like a cut down Arcadia. As far as I am aware it exists in PAL only. The Arcadia is really, basically a Signetics 2650 CPU with a 2637 Video Processor and a few support chips. The Acetronic is a 2650 CPU with a 2636 Video Processor. The 2636 is a close relative or more likely a predecessor of the 2637. It has three main components. - the four sprites ; this seems to be the same as on the Emerson - one four digit or two two digit score lines (e.g. it's 0000 or 00 00) which can be in the middle or top of the screen (or both if you multiplex it !) - a grid pattern ; the nearest thing to this is on the Odyssey 2 (probably where the idea comes from). It's kind of like a grid where you can miss out bits and fill bits in ; it can do things like the backgrounds on KC Munchkin. The Arcadia has its character grid. It also has the sound, analogue I/O etc., basically the same. it is an evil thing to program. The problem is that the grid is basically pretty useless; you can do pacman mazes with it, but not much else, other than draw the odd line, so almost everything is done with sprites. This means the sprites are repeatedly multiplexed all the way down, and games have a 'screen kernel', a bit like the Atari VCS. It's probably the second worst machine to program, after the VCS series, if you want to do anything at all complicated. Galaxy Invader, for example, uses the score line at the top, then three of the sprites are used for the invaders and repeatedly drawn, the fourth being the bullet. After the invaders are drawn, the sprites are scaled up to draw the shields, then scaled back down again to draw the player ship. The grid seems to be rarely used ; the pong games use it to draw the 'court' but not much else. The sprites work on a vsync counter basis ; you set the counter (or it is set at the end of VBlank) and decremented every scan line, on reaching 0 the sprite data is clocked out. Most of the games are pretty dire copies, or attempts to copy, the standard arcade games. But with lots of limitations ; something like Cat Trax is impossible. The games are not much fun to play. Most seem to be 2k or 4k carts ; they are the almost but not quite standard 9316 ROMs (like the 2716 with the pins rearranged). It's not helped by the memory ; there's something ridiculous, about 64 bytes of memory to use :) It exists in lots of variants ; these include the MPU1000 and 2000 (2000 has internal PSU, 1000 detachable control pads, same layout as Arcadia), similar machines badged Prinztronic and Radofin, and a machine called the Interton VC4000, which has a different cartridge connector but is otherwise identical. Unusually, it also existed as a 'build it yourself' book. This is a german book, which shows you how to construct a console and gives commented listings of a 'Pong' type game, and explains how to code it. A friendly German chap gave me a rough translation of some of the technical bits, which made it all much easier of course." 14 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 9:08am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Phillips and Magnavox were involved in the Arcadia 2001 commie_fan This is offered as partial SUPPORT for the RUMOR that Phillips and/or Magnavox were somehow involved in the creation and/or distribution of the "Arcadia 2001" console group. The quoted materials below came from Dieter Koenig, who runs the "Classic Consoles Center" web site. Dieter is also a new author for the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" (as of Version Seven). The material below was sent to Ward Shrake in e-mail during April 2002, as both DPCG authors tried to compare notes on their guide sections. Ward edited parts of it, primarily deleting off-topic or personal conversation; "[snip]" will indicate any such deletions. -- Ward Shrake -- ===== Quoted material follows ===== "What still confuses me a bit are some facts that I have from an interview with a former German Interton programmer right now. Unfortunately the interview is just in German at this stage. An English translation will be available but I don't have the time now. [snip] Some interesting facts from that interview, just translated for you: Q: How many different people wrote games for the VC-4000? A: As far as I know, most of the games were developed by Philips. Some of the games were written by German programmers ... Q: Mr. Tuerk, CEO of Interton said in an interview with the German video games magazine "TeleMatch" back in those days that the Interton VC-4000 was the one and only video game system that had ever been developed in Germany. Can you prove this? A: Hmm, the basic concept is from Philips in Holland. The design and layout for the VC-4000 were made by Interton ... Q: Mr. Tuerk says in this interview that "An advanced videogame computer is finished and ready to be released". The successor of the VC-4000? Was it really finished? Did you see it? Do you have more information? A: Yes, I saw a prototype, which was running a great soccer game. Mr. Kraemer asked me what I think of it. It has again been developped by Philips and I think it was downwards compatible to the VC-4000. It had for sure a 2650 processor, more memory for the carts and an other video chip. I think it was the successor of the 2636PVI, the Signetics 2637UVI. I still have the complete data sheets of this chip. Interton gave me them back then so I could read me into them. This videochip had additional an advanced soundchip and was able to display 16 characters in up to 26 lines. It was capable to display 40 alphanumeric characters and had 64 graphical symbols and 8 programmable symbols. I think this is the chip which was also used in the Emerson Arcadia. The soccer game looked fantastic and I couldnt wait the release of this machine. I didnt know that Interton soon after that would go bankrupt. Tho I cannot prove if this is all true. I don't know how far Mr. Bieling was involved in the scene, so I don't know if this are guesses by him or facts." 15 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 9:11am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Phillips and Magnavox were involved in the Arcadia 2001 commie_fan This is offered as partial SUPPORT for the RUMOR that Phillips and/or Magnavox were somehow involved in the creation and/or distribution of the "Arcadia 2001" console group. The quotes below came from Stefan Piasecki to Ward Shrake in e-mail during April 2002. -- Ward Shrake -- ===== Quoted material follows ===== "we should all think about what it might mean that the Palladium family bears stickers saying that these consoles were produced under license from Magnavox. Did somebody just sell their drowning systems licenses off to Philips or might they stand behind all this? Who knows." 16 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 9:28am Subject: RUMOR: Interton VC-4000 and Arcadia 2001 game compatability commie_fan Editorial note -- This is the initial posting on a subject I hope others think about, and add information to. The way I plan to keep the conversation half-way organized and easy to understand, is for me to post the RUMOR all by itself (as one seperate post). Then the responses will come after it, with one posting per response. Other people can then read what was said so far, and respond accordingly. ========================== RUMOR: There are so many similarities between the consoles and the games for the Interton VC-4000 and Arcadia 2001 console groups, that games for the older Interton console might work on the Arcadia 2001 console. 17 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 9:38am Subject: RUMOR: Some Arcadia games are ports of Interton games commie_fan Editorial note -- This is the initial posting on a subject I hope others think about, and add information to. The way I plan to keep the conversation half-way organized and easy to understand, is for me to post the RUMOR all by itself (as one seperate post). Then the responses will come after it, with one posting per response. Other people can then read what was said so far, and respond accordingly. ========================== RUMOR: Some games that originally came out on the "Interton VC-4000" console group were later changed just enough to work on the "Arcadia 2001" console group, and were released as games for the Arcadia 2001. 18 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 10:11am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Interton VC-4000 and Arcadia 2001 game compatability commie_fan Unlike most of the other RUMOR postings I just posted to these message boards, I actually DO NOT believe that this rumor is true. There is info on my web site, in the "Arcadia 2001" FAQ text, which explains my reasoning. My web site is at: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/ ...and you can go there to read all of the details on why I believe that this rumor has, once and for all, been debunked or disproven. The short story is, I took 16 known-good ROM images from the Interton VC-4000 console group, and I put them into a known-good Arcadia 2001 console group compatible "Multi-cart" along with known-good Arcadia ROM images. The Arcadia games all worked fine. Not one of the games for the Interton console group did anything but crash the system. (I realize they are likely all PAL-format games, but even so they should do something more than look like no cartridge had been inserted?) Note that the Arcadia games included ones not made to work on other families; games for the ROM-compatible but not slot-compatible game console families that I have named the Emerson family, MPT-03 family, Palladium family and Ormatu family. (Based on their cartridge slots.) I am willing to be proven wrong on this. But please note the word "proven" ... I offered tangible proof and I expect the same, before I will change my point of view. Please also note that some people have argued with me, over my use of the term compatible. I want to clarify what I mean; in my opinion, if a game is both ROM-compatible and slot-compatible, then it is self- evident that there are no compatibility problems. If a game is ROM- compatible but not slot-compatible, then you can make an adapter for the cartridge slot, and you again have a very compatible game. But if a game is not slot-compatible and it is not ROM-compatible, then there really is no basis to say the game is compatible in any meaningful way, as far as Ward is concerned. There may be a relationship between two console groups, based on history or who made the games; I am not arguing that is not true. But if there is no way you can take a game program's code -- "AS IS" without changing the code at all -- and have it run on another console, then they are two different animals in my opinion. I think of this type of relationship as perhaps similar to the Atari 2600 and Atari 5200 consoles, or maybe like the Commodore VIC-20 and the Commodore 64 or 128. Please note that I already started another message thread on these boards, to discuss whether or not Interton games later were ported over to the Arcadia console group. Please take porting comments there. -- Ward Shrake -- 19 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 10:36am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia games are ports of Interton games commie_fan This is offered as partial SUPPORT for the RUMOR that some of the games that were once made for the "Interton VC-4000" console group, were later ported or translated over to the "Arcadia 2001" console group. Ward Shrake offers two different kinds of proof to support this. (1) Screens from games on both game systems show many similarities. This is not much of a level of proof at this point, since there are only a handful of screenshots available for the Arcadia 2001 yet. The ones that do exist -- and believe me, I really looked for them -- on the Internet are about 80% incorrect, in that they are based NOT on a real system, but on an early and flawed stand-alone emulator for the Arcadia console. I hope to make better screenshots of Arcadia games soon. (When I do make accurate ones, I will post here saying so.) Right now, a number of good screenshots exist of Interton games. you can view those on Dieter Koenig's site: http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_games.htm Dieter's excellent Interton cart and console lists are at: http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_cartlist.htm (2) Messages found in games for both consoles show that at least one programmer worked on games for both console groups. This again is not absolute proof, but it is certainly strong evidence that there was a VERY close relationship between games made for both console groups. (a) Message found inside the Arcadia 2001 game "Space Attack": "To my wife Daisy and my son Jonathan From Choi Andrew Jul 1982 Galax.002". (b) Message found inside the Arcadia 2001 game "Crazy Gobbler": "To my wife Daisy and my son Jonathan From Choi Andrew 1982". (c) Message found inside the Interton VC-4000 game "Invaders": "ACHOI". Seen at $07fb - $07ff in one ROM image, and at $07eb - $07ef in another variant of that same ROM image. (d) Message found inside the Interton VC-4000 game "Shootout" (at $06cb - $0721): "CHOI ANDREW, HONG KONG, MARCH 31 1981. PROGRAMS BY THE SAME AUTHOR: INVADER, BREAKOUT." [end of quoted material] Note the dates: One of the Interton games was written in March of 1981, and one of the Arcadia games was written in July of 1982. And it was the same person doing the coding for all four of these games. Plus, by the programmer's own account, he also did others that we currently have no ROM images for, so we can't easily double-check on that. (There are around 50 archived Arcadia ROM images, and only 16 ROM images archived so far for Interton. Hopefully that will improve as time goes on?) -- Ward Shrake -- 20 From: "slydc" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 2:12pm Subject: Addition to the "the-list" and DP#7 slydc Hi al, you can add x2 new additions to "the-list" and DP#7 for the Intervision 2001. They are: M28 - Space Raider M30 - Horse Racing This info was taken from an Ebay auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1344290679 And here's the description that the guy has put: Today , from honest Jones : Intervision 2001, an ULTRARARE Emerson Arcadia 2001 clone. This Intervision 2001 is on auction FIRST TIME ON EBAY, EVER. Although you may have seen other Emerson Arcadia 2001 clones all around the world, this Intervision 2001 is only met in Finland...and be sure to understand..only 5 collectors in hole wide world own a working machine. Intervision uses it's own kind of cartridges , I have tried with other MPT-03 cartridges with this machine, but they don't seem to work at all ( although they look alike and the size of the cart is the same ), so maybe this is still another line of known Emerson Arcadia clones. Who knows? Anyway, with this auction you get the Intervision 2001 as in picture ( pic NOT taken from the machine on auction ) + 4 loose games, some very rare.Alltogether 35 known Intervision carts exist. the carts that come with this machine are: M24 - Golf (Ultra rare ) M27 - Cat Track M28 - Space Raider M30 - Horse Racing ( never before known to exist on Arcadia / MPT-03 ) Seems that he doesn't know very much about the Intervision 2001. 35 carts known ?? We should contact this guy and ask him the list. and Horse Racing, never exist on a MPT-03 ?? HAH!! It does! Anyway, i wonder where does sellers gets there informations.... --- Sly DC --- 21 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 4:59pm Subject: Re: Addition to the "the-list" and DP#7 commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: (snip) > Seems that he doesn't know very much about the Intervision 2001. > 35 carts known ?? We should contact this guy and ask him the list. > and Horse Racing, never exist on a MPT-03 ?? HAH!! It does! > > Anyway, i wonder where does sellers gets there informations.... > > --- Sly DC --- This seems like a good time for me to say this... please go easy on each other, as we start sharing information! NOBODY KNOWS IT ALL YET! I am not being critical of Sly DC, nor do I wish to be critical of anyone at this point. Just about one week ago, I was more or less yelling at people myself, for not knowing what I knew then. And I had reason to regret it, not long after it happened... be patient, folks! I look back at what I wrote in DPCG #6, and realize that now I could just as easily write a sentence-by-sentence analysis of what I said, and why it is all at least partially wrong! (As I did in my FAQ, with a few things from published magazines in the 1980's, and so on.) I am beginning to think that NONE of us is used to the idea that there is anyone "out there" that knows anything much about this stuff. The danger there is that you start ignoring people that really do have good information, or you do not listen to them closely enough. I did it to other people recently, and they did it to me, too. I think there will be a period of adjustment, as the flood gates of information start opening... and we all find out that the "other guy" has some part of the puzzle that we NEVER would have expected!? Two weeks ago, I knew NOTHING about the Interton system. Zip, nada. Now I'm probably one of the world's two dozen most knowledgable people on that subject, along with you hardcore guys. Mostly because you guys all sent me what you knew for sure, or suspected might be true due to one observation or another. I was quickly overwhelmed, and that is not easy to do, with me! (Just take my word on that.) That is one reason I'm posting what others told me... so we can all share and see what we can figure out. I'm doing most of the talking here, so far, but that is not because I am "in charge" or anything... it is just I was here first. I expect others to throw in what they know, or think they know. It won't happen if we are harsh towards a person's lack of knowledge. -- Ward Shrake -- 22 From: "slydc" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 5:01pm Subject: More addition to the "the-list" and DP#7 slydc First, i just want to make a correction in my previous message. I wanted to say " Hi All" instead of "Hi al", sorry about this! Ok, i have sent an e-mail to the guy who is auctioning the Intervision 2001 and asked him if he had a cart list of the x35 games supposed to be knowned. Well, he replied to me and with a list of x20 game listed. Here's the list: M03 Basketball M04 Space Mission M05 Baseball M06 Alien Invader M08 American Football M09 Video Chess M10=BOWLING M11=BREAKAWAY M12 Sea Battle M13 Missile War M14 Combat M15=BLACKJACK & POKER M19=PARASHOOTER M20 Auto Race M24=GOLF M25 Crazy Wall M26 Escape M27 Cat Track M28=SPACE RAIDER M30=HORSE RACING The only model numbers missing from "the-list" are Blackjack & Poker and Parashooter (and in my previous message Space Raider and Horse Racing). We're coming to a better known game list bit by bit. :) --- Sly DC --- 23 From: "billlagr" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 5:18pm Subject: Hi Everyone billlagr Hi Everyone, I'll do the introduction bit...my name is Bill LaGrue, and I'm the person who took absolutley aaaggeess to send the Poker & Blackjack and Circus carts to Ward...but, they are currently somewhere between Australia and the US so it wont be much longer. I have a number of old and not so old video games/computer systems, until maybe 6 months back i had a real interest in Atari 2600/7800 systems, but I was given back my old Tempest MPT-03 game system that I had loaned to a cousin of mine about 9 years ago. I took it, didnt think much more of it, then one night, out of curiosity had a look for some info on it on the net. I stumbled across Wards Arcadia site, and saw his cart list..I had most of the MPT-03 carts, including a number of rare/rumored ones. And i've been annoying the hell out of Ward ever since :) A couple of things that i want to add from the messgaes Ive read - one earlier message says something about the "arcadia was never released in Australia". Theres one on ebay.com.au right now, PAL and all..so I'm not entirely sure if it was an import or _was_ released here. But the bidding for it is pretty hot. and to Olivier- I'm the guy who is going to send you the details on the Amstrad Noebook computer, i have to get some pictures of it and its all go And finally, what carts for the Interon VC4000 have been archived? theres one for sale on eBay here (eBay..is there anything it cant do?) with 15 carts, if some of thatse havent been archived then I'll put in a bid for it.. Bill 24 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 5:38pm Subject: Re: More addition to the "the-list" and DP#7 commie_fan Thanks, Sly DC; I just added those to the list. I apologize for any confusion, but the list that I put up earlier today, in the "files" section of this site, I have already taken down. Just doing those two edits was painful enough to remind my why I post most of my other stuff on the web... so that's what I'm going to do. See this URL to find the text... http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm -- Ward Shrake -- 25 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 5:48pm Subject: Re: Arcadia nerds dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., stefanpiasecki@a... wrote: > Hi, > I am Stefan. Are you also getting every posting in copy to your mail account? This is rather strange, isn't it? > Stefan Hi Stefan! You can change this. Just click at "Edit my membership" in the top right corner. On the page that appears then, at "Message delivery" click at "Special notices" or "No email" Regards, Dieter 26 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 5:49pm Subject: Re: Hi Everyone commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: (snip) > And i've been annoying the hell out of > Ward ever since :) Just for the record, Bill is only kidding... he has NOT been a pain to me at all. In fact, he's been very helpful to me (and us). But I appreciate the sense of humor, anyway. > And finally, what carts for the Interon VC4000 > have been archived? theres one for sale on eBay > here (eBay..is there anything it cant do?) with > 15 carts, if some of thatse havent been archived > then I'll put in a bid for it.. Good question! Here's the list of names that I am aware of. I asked around with the highly-connected "inner circle" type folks I know, and this is all that anyone has, to date. ("We'll have to work on changing that," Ward says with a silly half-grin on his face.) air_sea_battle.bin air_sea_battle_set2.bin blackjack.bin circus.bin electronic_pinball.bin grand_prix.bin horse_racing.bin invaders.bin invaders_set2.bin olympics.bin shooting_gallery.bin shootout.bin soccer.bin space_wars.bin tank.bin tank_set2.bin --- Ward Shrake --- 27 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 5:58pm Subject: Re: Arcadia nerds commie_fan Hi all. Dieter's message mentioned "special notices" ... just so you all know, I do not really plan to send any out. (As the guy that started this message board, I mean.) There are only a few of us, and I know most of you from e-mail anyway. If I have something to say to the group I will send it here, publicly. If I have something that I want to send in private, I will just use the normal e-mail methods. I can also post news on the "news" section of my Arcadia 2001 web site... tons of ways, so I don't believe I'll ever use Yahoo!'s "special notices" feature. -- Ward Shrake -- 28 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 6:01pm Subject: Re: Hi Everyone dieterk_ccc > > And finally, what carts for the Interon VC4000 > > have been archived? theres one for sale on eBay > > here (eBay..is there anything it cant do?) with > > 15 carts, if some of thatse havent been archived > > then I'll put in a bid for it.. > > Good question! Here's the list of names that I am aware of. I asked > around with the highly-connected "inner circle" type folks I know, > and this is all that anyone has, to date. ("We'll have to work on > changing that," Ward says with a silly half-grin on his face.) Well, I have a complete Interton VC-4000 collection (37 carts). If anyone can dump them I would be willing to make them available ... if I get them back in the same condition ;) Regards, Dieter 29 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 6:06pm Subject: Interton VC-4000 info dieterk_ccc Hopefully not too OT, but for those interested in the Interton VC- 4000, I have a website with all of the box covers, screen shots and some info at http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_games.htm and a cart list of the Interton VC-4000 and its "clones" at http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_cartlist.htm If any of you guys are a bit into the Interton + clones: I would still need information on some of the clone games, especially to which Interton game they correspond. Any help appreciated. Please take a look at the cartlist. Thanks, Dieter 30 From: "billlagr" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 6:29pm Subject: Re: Interton VC-4000 info billlagr Hi Dieter, Ive emailed you the Australian eBay ad, it has a list of the carts and their number and some pics, it may be of some use to you. Or may not. Bill --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "dieterk_ccc" wrote: > Hopefully not too OT, but for those interested in the Interton VC- > 4000, I have a website with all of the box covers, screen shots and > some info at http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_games.htm and a cart > list of the Interton VC-4000 and its "clones" at > http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_cartlist.htm > > If any of you guys are a bit into the Interton + clones: I would > still need information on some of the clone games, especially to > which Interton game they correspond. Any help appreciated. Please > take a look at the cartlist. > > Thanks, > Dieter 31 From: "billlagr" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 6:31pm Subject: Re: Hi Everyone billlagr --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > (snip) > > And i've been annoying the hell out of > > Ward ever since :) > > Just for the record, Bill is only kidding... he has NOT been a pain > to me at all. In fact, he's been very helpful to me (and us). But I > appreciate the sense of humor, anyway. > the soldering-iron chimpanzees thank you for your kind words :) 32 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 6:34pm Subject: Re: Interton VC-4000 info commie_fan I have two quick things to say in response to Dieter's posting (quoted below). The Interton VC-4000 is definitely NOT considered off-topic here... to make that really clear, I just edited the home page's start-up message thingie to include the Interton as one of the group's goals. I think this only makes sense; the Interton is the Arcadia's little brother or sister, with only a year or so difference in age, etc. Second, I would encourage you hardcore readers to take advantage of the "bookmarks" section. List your web site addresses there, to have them all in one place. (And in individual postings too; that's OK.) One of the reasons this group exists is to share information, so it makes sense to tell everyone where your best on-topic web info is at. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "dieterk_ccc" wrote: > Hopefully not too OT, but for those interested in the Interton VC- > 4000, I have a website with all of the box covers, screen shots and > some info at http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_games.htm and a cart > list of the Interton VC-4000 and its "clones" at > http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_cartlist.htm > > If any of you guys are a bit into the Interton + clones: I would > still need information on some of the clone games, especially to > which Interton game they correspond. Any help appreciated. Please > take a look at the cartlist. > > Thanks, > Dieter 33 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 6:48pm Subject: RUMOR: Chimpanzees were used to assemble these consoles commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: (snip) > the soldering-iron chimpanzees thank > you for your kind words :) Heehee... Laughing out loud on that one, Bill! Good one. Let me explain what Bill is talking about, since I know many of you won't immediately understand that reference. Bill and Ward talked in e-mail and discussed various technical things about the clones of the Arcadia 2001 console. We had both observed really bad "build quality" in some of the machine's inner workings. Roughly hand-assembled circuit boards, badly soldered joints, excess solder splashed all over the place (waiting to break loose and "short" something out)... all sorts of things that would have never made it through quality control checkpoints if quality was a big concern for some of the companies that built these consoles and/or their game cartridges. Bill LaGrue's theory to explain this is that Chimpanzees were hired to do the actual assembly work. While I cannot prove this was true, I also think I would have a very hard time proving it was not true. So, does anyone else out there want to comment on this theory? (Talk about a first within the gaming industry, if we could prove it!) -- Ward Shrake -- 34 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 7:11pm Subject: Re: Hi Everyone commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "dieterk_ccc" wrote: (snip) > Well, I have a complete Interton > VC-4000 collection (37 carts). If > anyone can dump them I would be > willing to make them available ... if > I get them back in the same condition ;) Which is both very kind, and perfectly reasonable of you. I am willing to try to dump some Interton carts. I do sort of want to do that if I can work out a cart loan with one or more of you... but first I have to concentrate on finishing up my two sections for the "Digital Press Collectors Guide". Once that is done, then I'd be glad to look into this some more, with any other interested folks? The only problem is, I have to figure out the pinout diagram, first, so that I can make a cartridge-slot adapter of some sort. The best way for me to do this is open a cartridge up... but after I open one of them up and figure out where the circuit board traces all go, then I do not have to open up any others. As long as I can get a correctly sized-and-spaced card edge connector that fits the carts, then it is fairly simple for me to wire up a quick-and-dirty homebrew adapter, just to read in any other carts that I might get in, after that point. Obviously, I would much rather experiment on a cart that was easy to replace, and that nobody cared much about, than an ultra-rare cart. (Who would not, if they were in my shoes?) Dieter, is there any chance you could open up a junk cartridge, and maybe scan in what it looks like inside, so I can take a better look at it? It would be best if I saw a picture that had a ruler in it; metric is fine. I just need a good reference as to size and scale. The info in the MESS texts says that those are 9316 ROMs and that gives me a starting point. I'd still rather have a cart in my hands, but I can offer limited advice just by seeing quality photos. Oh, for those that don't know me very well... I have "archived" well over a hundred carts for various consoles now. Probably closer to two hundred, between the VIC-20 and the Arcadia and the Bally Astrocade, with a few carts for things like the AdventureVision. And three of the four cartridge slot pinouts in my Arcadia FAQ, I figured out. There are other guys that are just as capable; if you wanted to find someone closer to your local area, I could make suggestions in e-mail? -- Ward Shrake -- 35 From: "billlagr" Date: Sat Apr 6, 2002 8:36pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Chimpanzees were used to assemble these consoles billlagr A thoery no longer. I have found unmistakable proof that Chimpanzees WERE used to assemble the consoles and cartridges! Ive uploaded the picture to the photos section, have a look and judge for yourself. The picture was snapped while the "workers" were on a fruit break. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > (snip) > > the soldering-iron chimpanzees thank > > you for your kind words :) > > Heehee... Laughing out loud on that one, Bill! Good one. > > Let me explain what Bill is talking about, since I know many of you > won't immediately understand that reference. Bill and Ward talked in > e-mail and discussed various technical things about the clones of the > Arcadia 2001 console. We had both observed really bad "build quality" > in some of the machine's inner workings. Roughly hand-assembled > circuit boards, badly soldered joints, excess solder splashed all > over the place (waiting to break loose and "short" something out)... > all sorts of things that would have never made it through quality > control checkpoints if quality was a big concern for some of the > companies that built these consoles and/or their game cartridges. > > Bill LaGrue's theory to explain this is that Chimpanzees were hired > to do the actual assembly work. While I cannot prove this was true, I > also think I would have a very hard time proving it was not true. > > So, does anyone else out there want to comment on this theory? (Talk > about a first within the gaming industry, if we could prove it!) > > -- Ward Shrake -- 36 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 7, 2002 1:13pm Subject: MPT-02?? billlagr hi all... I just found on eBay an Victory MPT-02 by Soundic. It even has MPT-02 on the box, and has a cartridge, MG-212 Spacewar Intercept. I'm not sure if this is a VC4000 clone or an entirely different beast.... from the picture, the cartridge size and case appears to be nearly identical to my MPT-03 carts, and the case itself is identical, different badging, and instead of the joysticks with the keypad, the joysticks have 1 fire butoon, but in the console itself there are two more pads with 9 buttons arranged in a square shape. any ideas?? Bill 37 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Sun Apr 7, 2002 1:46pm Subject: RE: MPT-02?? tempest_2084 I thought MPT-02 was the RCA Studio II clone. Spacewar was an Studio II game, I know that much. Tempest -----Original Message----- From: billlagr [mailto:billlagr@...] Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:13 PM To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] MPT-02?? hi all... I just found on eBay an Victory MPT-02 by Soundic. It even has MPT-02 on the box, and has a cartridge, MG-212 Spacewar Intercept. I'm not sure if this is a VC4000 clone or an entirely different beast.... from the picture, the cartridge size and case appears to be nearly identical to my MPT-03 carts, and the case itself is identical, different badging, and instead of the joysticks with the keypad, the joysticks have 1 fire butoon, but in the console itself there are two more pads with 9 buttons arranged in a square shape. any ideas?? Bill To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 38 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 7, 2002 3:18pm Subject: Re: MPT-02?? billlagr Maybe its another family group thing..like the Arcadia and MPT-03... but instead its the Studio II and the MPT-02 varieties... --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > I thought MPT-02 was the RCA Studio II clone. Spacewar was an Studio II > game, I know that much. > > Tempest > > -----Original Message----- > From: billlagr [mailto:billlagr@n...] > Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 10:13 PM > To: arcadia2001consoles@y... > Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] MPT-02?? > > > hi all... > I just found on eBay an Victory MPT-02 by Soundic. It even has MPT- 02 > on the box, and has a cartridge, MG-212 Spacewar Intercept. > I'm not sure if this is a VC4000 clone or an entirely different > beast.... > from the picture, the cartridge size and case appears to be nearly > identical to my MPT-03 carts, and the case itself is identical, > different badging, and instead of the joysticks with the keypad, the > joysticks have 1 fire butoon, but in the console itself there are two > more pads with 9 buttons arranged in a square shape. > > any ideas?? > > > Bill > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@y... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 39 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 7, 2002 5:18pm Subject: Re: MPT-02?? commie_fan Guys... while I appreciate the enthusiasm being shown here, please be sure to make full use of all the research materials I have already told you about, before you start wildly speculating. In some areas, yes, we have to guess. In other areas, there is no need to guess. The MPT-02 is one of those "no need to guess" areas... http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=5 As I said in an earlier post, please take the time to go to my Arcadia 2001 web site, go to the "links" section, and visit the places that I have listed there. They are the best on the web. There is no sense "reinventing the wheel" if we can avoid doing so. -- Ward Shrake -- 40 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 7, 2002 5:26pm Subject: Re: MPT-02?? billlagr oops..yeah I found all that _after_ the wild speculation bit.. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Guys... while I appreciate the enthusiasm being shown here, please be > sure to make full use of all the research materials I have already > told you about, before you start wildly speculating. > > In some areas, yes, we have to guess. In other areas, there is no > need to guess. The MPT-02 is one of those "no need to guess" areas... > > http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=5 > > As I said in an earlier post, please take the time to go to my > Arcadia 2001 web site, go to the "links" section, and visit the > places that I have listed there. They are the best on the web. There > is no sense "reinventing the wheel" if we can avoid doing so. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 42 From: "oboissea" Date: Sun Apr 7, 2002 9:23pm Subject: the french guy oboissea Ok, nice to read so many interesting stuff about the Arcadia and brothers/sisters. I guess we will guess & find more here than in 2 years of scarced emails... I just wanted to present myself for those who don't know me yet. I'm a little french guy, my name is Olivier Boisseau, and I run (with two other french mates) the www.old-computers.com web site, merely dedicated to old computers, but soon opened to consoles & pongs. I have done some work on the obscure video game systems, as this was the part which interested me the most. I then wrote a few (short) pages to help people recognise these obscure systems. There are very detailed, because that was not my first goal as I knew that would do this later on www.old-computers.com (soon I hope). In fact these pages were written for the Vieumikro french meeting, where I should have made a presentation, but I felt at the last moment that most people there were not interested. So I just published them on the web. Arcadia & clones: http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=8 Interton VC-4000 & clones: http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=7 RCA Studio II & clones: http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=5 Hanimex HMG-7900 & clones: http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=6 Cartridge based pongs: http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=4 Hope that helps 43 From: "oboissea" Date: Sun Apr 7, 2002 9:36pm Subject: Intervision 2001 oboissea The Intervision 2001 is indeed quite weird because it has exactly the same shap as the ITMC MPT-05 (which I have) which is definately an Interton clone system... But the Intervision seemed rather to be an Arcadia clone, when looking at its games list. There is even Autorace in the list which is a rare MPT-03 game, and which couldn't (pure supposition) be handled by an Interton system (2636). Too complicated game I would say... So, what is quite strange indeed is to find "Horse Racing" in the Intervision games list, which is typically an Interton & clones game (it is one of the hints to recognise such a system). So the solutions are: - There is an error in this list, - Horse Racing was indeed adapted for the Arcadia systems and this list is the only proof so far, What do you think? 44 From: "oboissea" Date: Sun Apr 7, 2002 9:39pm Subject: Oops oboissea My pages are NOT very detailed, I meant... 45 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 7:05am Subject: Re: Intervision 2001 stefanpiasecki > - Horse Racing was indeed adapted for the Arcadia systems and this > list is the only proof so far, > > What do you think? Cheers, Horse Racing indeed exists for the Arcadia, not really for the Arcadia but for the ROM compatible Palladium system. I sent Ward a cart, he dumped it and it works. Stefan 46 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 1:47pm Subject: Re: Oops commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "oboissea" wrote: > My pages are NOT very detailed, I meant... And yet they are currently the best thing on the web, Olivier. Be proud of them! I based my recent research in part on those pages. You did current and future fans and researchers a big favor, I think? (For both the Interton VC-4000 and the Arcadia 2001, I mean.) Before I had heard you say, on-line, that there were two groups or families of consoles that might or might not be compatible, there was way too much confusion. I cross-referenced your observations with what I learned by searching for hidden messages in ROM carts, and with all the published articles that are now reprinted in my FAQ, with the result that it is now much more easy to understand the combined history of these two systems. There are still many areas that are not very clear, but they are no longer totally unclear; a little light has been shed on a place that used to be very dark. -- Ward Shrake -- 47 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 3:57pm Subject: Re: Intervision 2001 commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "oboissea" wrote: (snip) > So, what is quite strange indeed is to find "Horse Racing" in the > Intervision games list, which is typically an Interton & clones > game (it is one of the hints to recognise such a system). > So the solutions are: > - There is an error in this list, > - Horse Racing was indeed adapted for the Arcadia systems and this > list is the only proof so far, > > What do you think? I think it is a fair question... but one that has already been both asked and answered on these message boards. I want to explore the question further, but I need to address a major problem here first. No offense meant -- to Olivier or to anyone else here -- but what I think is that there is obviously a LOT MORE information than you guys can easily imagine, already here. And that you have not read it, nor taken the time necessary to really think about its full implications. (The same goes for my HUGELY revised Arcadia 2001 FAQ and the web sites of some or most of the members of this small research group. But for now, let's just focus on the info that is available here!) To find out about the "possible ported game" question, please go back and read message #17 and message #19, found on the message board at: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/ I had already clearly said that I thought some games had been ported from the Interton console to the Arcadia console. I offered proof and ways we can get more information. I invited comments from the group. What happened? At first I got no response. Now I hear almost exactly what I said before, being repeated back to all of us as if it was a brand new, never-asked question. (Good thinking but very bad timing!) I am sorry if I sound upset, but this situation is very frustrating. It keeps happening, over and over... and to guys that I know do "know better". (Most of us have either written a FAQ or contributed to one, and none of us is really new to researching retro-gaming history.) About a week ago, I tried to send Dieter some information. He did not really read what I had sent him. His reply made that very clear. I had no real choice but to tell him (more sternly than I wanted to) to go back and really read what I had sent him, so that we could share information better. (It worked, and we have shared much info since.) Yesterday, I was put into another difficult spot. I did not want to feel like I had to "yell at" Bill when he asked an MPT-02 question that Olivier's excellent web site had already answered months ago. I felt badly about posting a message saying we were all wasting each other's time if we do not read each other's web sites. (But we are.) Even after I did that yesterday, here I am today, forced to do it all again? I find with deep regret that I have to tell Olivier that he has asked a question that I both asked and answered just a few days ago, on this message board. (Three times in one week is frustrating!) None of these guys are stupid. None of these guys are lazy. I know THAT is not the problem here. I have come to the conclusion that a big part of the problem is time... nobody seems to have accepted the idea yet that we all went from knowing almost nothing, to knowing a TON of new stuff, and that it all happened in just a few short weeks. The sooner we all accept that, the sooner we can all move forward. Until then, we as a group are more or less "pissing into the wind". Please consider this very carefully: (a) These message boards are here to archive EVERYTHING that was said here, in the context that it was said in, without any alterations. (b) In doing so, the boards automatically "write down" both the original question, and every answer that was given to that question. (c) In a real sense, the message boards are then an interactive FAQ document. They serve exactly the same purpose, in a different form. I hope you guys will begin to see it that way, and to use it well? And I guarantee you are NOT using it well, if you are not visiting the web site that it is hosted on. If you are reading this in e-mail, you are NOT seeing all the information this interactive FAQ offers. You are seeing a tiny little snapshot, devoid of any real context. Again, I am not angry. I'm frustrated, but that's different. I simply think that you guys are all used to having to pick up a few crumbs of information off of the floor, at great effort. You have never had a choice before; none of us did. Before, we were lucky to be able to find any crumbs! And half of what we found was stale and inedible. That's the way it used to be. That changed, and many of you obviously have not realized it yet. (I suppose I'll have to give everyone time to catch up? I don't really have a choice, so I will try harder to be patient. I am only this hyper now, due to a May "DPCG 7" deadline.) Now I think that there is a steak and lobster dinner sitting on the table, and you guys have not gone near it. You are still looking for crumbs on the floor. I think you all need to get up off the floor, to just ignore the crumbs, and eat the steak and lobster that I worked very hard to place in front of you over the last two or three weeks. Please start at message one, and read everything. THEN comment on it. Please understand that I consider you message board members to be the absolute best Arcadia 2001 and/or Interton VC-4000 researchers to be found, anywhere on this planet. I do not think any of you are stupid. I do not think any of you are lazy. But I do think many of you under- estimate what we as a group have managed to do, over these years. I think this is partly because of how quickly it seemed to happen. It had to happen some day... that day is today. Accept it and be glad! -- Ward Shrake -- 48 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 4:56pm Subject: Interton VC-4000 cart dump commie_fan [EDITORIAL NOTE from Ward Shrake, this message board's founder:] Earlier today, a message board member posted something that I felt I had no choice but to delete. The person posting message #41 obviously meant well, but he is apparently inexperienced in certain matters. I apologize to that person for acting as a "moderator"... I really do not want to do that on these boards, and I will attempt to avoid that sort of thing as much as I can. I certainly do not feel comfortable trying to re-word someone else's postings, so until I figure out some better way of going about all this I will just tell the person what I did and why I did it, in private e-mail. They can then re-post their message in a modified form. (I am also open to other suggestions?) In this case, I feel the need to inform the group on a matter that is not common knowledge, hoping thereby to avoid future complications. Without meaning to, the person posting had committed a serious breach of what I would call "archiving etiquette". In short, many people who are involved in doing things related to archiving, do NOT want their name mentioned in public in any way, without gaining prior approval. The person posting earlier today named everyone, with zero approval, and committed at least one other minor transgression in the process. Again, I am sure his intent was good, but the result was still bad. Personally, I make no secret that I "dump carts". I also make it no secret that I search the resulting ROM program code for hidden ASCII messages containing the names of programmers, dates, and so on. In my sections of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" I print any hidden messages that I find... including copyright messages. It is just part of what I do, in my overall "Digital Archaeology" efforts. I think it is very clear from the overall context of what I have been doing, for all the years that I've been doing it, that my efforts are those of a game researcher, historian, and/or even an art critic. I have only a passing interest in obtaining and/or playing new games, per se. But that's just me... other people have other opinions. And until you ask a person -- in advance -- you won't know how they feel about it. I would say that the vast majority of ROM dumpers wish to remain 100% anonymous as far as public forums and web sites are concerned. We in the inner circles have some idea of who did what... and when we do not, we few just accept that maybe we "do not have a need to know". I learned this over roughly eight years of "Digital Archaeology" on a variety of different game consoles. Some people want to be named, if they loan a single rare cart out. That's their "pay-off"... they help others, and get "status" or recognition for doing so. I'm happy to oblige in those cases. Other people may loan you a dozen carts, and simply not care if they ever "get credit" for it or not. It does not matter to them at all. I tend to error on the side of caution by not naming these people. A rare few do not feel comfortable being named at all, even if all they are doing is loaning you a fairly common cart for a game console that only six people on the planet care about. That's fine with me, too. I try to conform to various wishes, erroring towards not naming people if they're unsure or uncomfortable. A quick example... my web site has mentioned that some unnamed person was going to loan me two specific Arcadia 2001 carts. I did not have that person's permission to list their name publicly, in part because I don't recall asking for it. But this person chose to "out" their own name on these message boards, saying he was the person that was in the process of loaning me those two specific Arcadia 2001 carts. In this case, each person involved had given their own name out. Summing up... I *do* know who loaned me certain carts. I know exactly who did what, for every one of the Arcadia 2001 ROM images that was ever archived. But knowing who did what, and naming them all publicly without their prior permission, is two different things. Please realize that.... -- Ward Shrake -- 49 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 5:48pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia games are ports of Interton games commie_fan Please see messages #17 and #19, for the earlier part of this conversation. (So far, only a conversation with myself... hint, hint!) Here are some of the games that I believe were likely ported from the Interton VC-4000 console group to the Arcadia 2001 console group. This is not a complete list; I will probably add to it (or make other kinds of changes) as I learn more about certain Interton games. I am basing this list on the screenshots seen on Dieter's Interton web pages, compared to games running on Ward's Arcadia "multi-cart". [list begins] __Interton game name_____________Notes__ Car race -- three screens, no known match-ups. Blackjack -- probably ported to MPT-03; Bill LaGrue is loaning that cart to Ward soon, but names and printed screenshots are similar. Air / Sea Battle -- three or more screens. One reminds Ward of the newly archived "Parashooter" game that was available on the Ormatu. Paddle games -- five screens, no known match-ups. Note that there are unused ports on Arcadia consoles that seem to be for paddle controllers, so it is possible Pong type ports were once considered. Tank Battle / Air Battle -- could have had code used in many tank type games, including Combat. Some screens do look like Combat. Mathematics I, Mathematics II -- no known match-ups, but a vaporware Ormatu cart called itself "Fun with Math". Hippodrome -- screenshots nearly identical to Horse Racing. Chess -- unknown, but Video Chess did exist (with improvements?) Circus -- probably a direct port. Boxing -- looks like a port, with some minor upgrades made to it. Pinball -- a vaporware Ormatu cart was named "Pinball". Soccer -- probably a port with some upgrades; with "Soccer" or "3D Soccer" variants exist on the Arcadia console. Metropolis / Hangman -- Hangman is part of the Brain Quiz cartridge. Golf -- probably a port with upgrades done to it. Bowling -- probably was upgraded, became "3D Bowling". Invaders -- may have been rewritten to become Alien Invaders. Monster Man -- uncertain, but the screen does NOT match any known Pac- Man clone on the Arcadia. However, there is a game called "Devilman -- the dot muncher" that exists on the Arcadia, but that Ward has not archived or seen in person... this may or may not be a ported game. Super Space -- a Defender clone; two exist on the Arcadia. One is a blatant arcade clone, the other is a legalized rewrite of the first. [list ends] Note that I have already tentatively matched up 18 out of 37 known games, or half of the Interton library. And more are pretty likely. -- Ward Shrake -- 50 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 6:01pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia games are ports of Interton games commie_fan Two other tentative ports from Interton to Arcadia: Paddle games (Interton) may equal Breakaway (Arcadia). Reversi (Interton) may equal Capture (Arcadia). -- Ward Shrake -- 51 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 6:35pm Subject: Arcadia cartridge archiving list commie_fan Hi all. See my cartridge archiving list to know what is archived, confirmed, or merely a rumor on the Arcadia 2001 console. http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm Every one of the 47 titles listed there as "archived" both exists in ROM image form, and runs just fine from within the multi-cart that Ward built. (E-mail me if you want one, or see my links section to go to Digital Press, where all the ROM images are for play in MESS.) Note that some of these games NEVER came out on a console that is slot-compatible with the Emerson family. There are 2 other titles that will be arriving at Ward's place, before too long. They will also be archived, for 49 total games. I also have promises of at least another two cart loans, possibly more, through a contact that I have dealt with before. That would only leave three "confirmed" carts that have not been archived. After that, there are nine names we have not tracked down carts for. They may or may not turn out to be real games; some may just be a new name for carts we already have. I have little faith in these carts. A few names may turn out NOT to be what people think they are. For instance, "Devilman -- the dot muncher" may or may not be a game we already have archived, such as Crazy Gobbler, Super Gobbler or Cat Trax. And there is -- I'd bet money -- an overseas variation on Space Vultures that has the "boss" stage that is missing in the US cart. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > Horse Racing indeed exists for the Arcadia, not really for the > Arcadia but for the ROM compatible Palladium system. I sent Ward a > cart, he dumped it and it works. > Stefan 52 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 7:21pm Subject: Interton VC-4000 cart dump dieterk_ccc Good news. I am going to loan my complete Interton cart collection out temporarily to get them dumped. I found someone who was willing to do that. As soon as there will be any further news I will let you guys know here :) 53 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 7:37pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia games are ports of Interton games dieterk_ccc Hm, flying over Ward's list, an idea came into my mind: What about making a webpage that shows screenshots of the corresponding games of the 2 systems side by side? That would be nice to look at in my humble opinion. I would be willing to make this page if Ward doesn't plan to. Only problem: I already made screenshots of ALL released Interton games - via connecting my Interton VC-4000 to my TV tuner card. But I don't have by far all of the Arcadia games. So I could only put the "real" Interton screenshots and "emulated" Arcadia screenshots side by side. Unfortunately not enough money to get an Arcadia multicart right now : ( Let me know what you guys think. Cheers, Dieter 54 From: "billlagr" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 9:04pm Subject: Multiple Subjects billlagr Hi All.. got a couple of things to say here, so here goes- I have to apologise about the MPT-02 thing. Basically I saw it on eBay, jumped to the biggest and most incorrect conclusion ever known, posted a daft message, then after that I went and checked it out and found it was old news. So Wards point is well taken, and he is most definately correct in what he has said. Now, I never want to hear MPT- 02 mentioned ever again :) Secondly - A MPT-03 System appeared on eBay.au with a cartridge, M7 Math/Logic. Its not in Wards list (there was 10 carts with it but they were all common except for this one) but someone wanted it more than I did. much much more. Towards the end, the bidding got into the ludicrous range (I belive I gave up at about $110.00). Anyway, does anyone know anything about it? The closest thing on the list is Fun with Math. (Incidently there was another MPT-03 System, not working, I was bidding on, because it had a Breakaway cart which I dont have, that went for about $60.00, so aside from their "fun" value it seems that they have a big $$ value too) Bill 55 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Apr 8, 2002 9:08pm Subject: On Managing Arcadia Information atrionfo On Managing Arcadia Information Hi all, my name's Adam Trionfo. I've been lurking here reading the new messages (and the archived ones on the web site) since Ward told me about this Arcadia message board a couple of days ago. I'm not really familiar with the Arcadia (or any of its clones), but I am a fan of classic systems (notably the Astrocade). I've managed to steal glimpses of many of the games on the Arcadia multicart through fortunate circumstances this past summer, but, other than a brief weekend in August, I have no hands-on experience, not even as a player of these games (I don't own any of the hardware). Yet, still- the Arcadia System is intriguing to me, but it's not the only reason that I'm here. I'm reading these messages to get a feel for the digital dig that is going on with the Arcadia. I want to understand, how, as a group, are all of you going to sort through the information that has been popping up? Some method MUST be found otherwise it does no good to have it. I have this problem at Bally Alley (an Astrocade website and message board). First there was little or no information available, now there is LOTS. Some sorting method needs to be used so that available information gets into the hands of the people that want it, without the need to have to wade through dozens of pages on the message boards. The old methods work (FAQs, websites, message boards, and general printed material), but there MUST be a better way. I'm hoping that we, as researchers (even of different systems), can figure out some way to do this that can benefit us all. Adam Trionfo 56 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 5:50am Subject: Screenshots and console emulation commie_fan The idea of a web page full of side-by-side screenshots is very good. I like that idea, Dieter. Unfortunately, I can't get my stupid "Snappy" to cooperate at all -- so far it looks like once you install the software for it, and then uninstall it, it does not clean itself out well enough and it will not allow you to reload the software onto your computer. (I got the same results on my sister's computer, as on my own.) I cannot help by making screenshots for the Arcadia, unless something changes... since I'm in a big rush for my DPCG sections, I doubt it will. The emulated screenshots would have quite a few errors in them. Even MESS, which is the best Arcadia 2001 software emulator, has problems in terms of game colors, game graphics and so on. The gameplay is not too far off, but audio - visually the emulator still needs work. If you want to go ahead and do that, Dieter, just to have something up there for now, that's fine with me. But I would strongly suggest you label it clearly, that they are emulated screenshots, and are not from a "real" system. It would be more than we have now, even though it would be doing double-work; emu screenshots now, real ones later? I am not so sure that additional emulator work is going to happen, since I just got word that PeT, the Arcadia 2001 emulator author, is no longer with the MESS team. (I have no further details.) Similarly, Paul Robson who wrote the code PeT improved upon in MESS, also has no desire to be involved with that particular emulator. For now -- and maybe for years -- it looks like Arcadia emulation will be imperfect. I am glad we have what we have now, but I don't expect too much more. Also, there seems to be the raw beginnings of an Interton VC-4000 emulator in MESS, but it is not hooked up to the outside world. Paul does not feel it is worth his own effort to emulate those games, so do not look to him to finish it up. And unless I am mistaken, PeT's having left the MESS team will probably hurt Interton emu efforts. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "dieterk_ccc" wrote: > Hm, flying over Ward's list, an idea came into my mind: What about > making a webpage that shows screenshots of the corresponding games of > the 2 systems side by side? That would be nice to look at in my > humble opinion. > > I would be willing to make this page if Ward doesn't plan to. Only > problem: I already made screenshots of ALL released Interton games - > via connecting my Interton VC-4000 to my TV tuner card. But I don't > have by far all of the Arcadia games. So I could only put the "real" > Interton screenshots and "emulated" Arcadia screenshots side by side. > Unfortunately not enough money to get an Arcadia multicart right now : > ( > > Let me know what you guys think. > > Cheers, > Dieter 57 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:09am Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects stefanpiasecki > I was bidding on, because it had a Breakaway cart which I dont have, > that went for about $60.00, so aside from their "fun" value it seems > that they have a big $$ value too) > Bill Hi Bill, may I introduce myself first. My name is Stefan Piasecki and I am an Arcadia (TVG 2000) owner since the early days in 1982 and love the system since then. I own many other systems as well but this is another story because the TVG 2000 was my first system at all and it surely influenced my life as for example Tanks a lot gave me a very early and first impression of what it may mean to develop strategies in a game - I am today working as a games producer. I was the one who told Ward first about the Palladium-systems that then became the 3rd lost tribe of the Arcadia-family and loaned him some very rare TVG carts, The End for instance. As for your question: I guess the Fun with Math game you are referring to could be the good old Brain Quiz. I own all games that are available for the Arcadia family (except the Japanese releases) plus many for the Palladium (that has games that only seem to exist on the Palladium or on the MPT-03 consoles) and have never heard or seen of anything that goes into the direction of math or logical games except Brain Quiz. On the Palladium Brain Quiz is called "Intelligenz-Spiel" (Game of Intelligence) or something like this, so you'll probably didn't miss much except finding out that this is a name variation. On the other hand as Ward has recently found out, some programmers developed games for the Interton and the Arcadia and there are about 4 math and logical games available on the Interton. I am sorry, but I was the one who won this MPT-03 auction this morning. I didn't know that you are a fellow collector. I really want to find out what is behind all this and which games appeared where and what the manuals say about the distributor etc. I just hate it when people bid on games just because they think they are cool while others like our small bunch of people have to watch games going by just because we weren't able to buy them. If any games or other items are of interest to the Arcadia community, I usually loan them to Ward so that he can make them available for everybody. All the best Stefan 58 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:16am Subject: Re: Intervision 2001 stefanpiasecki > Please understand that I consider you message board members to be the > absolute best Arcadia 2001 and/or Interton VC-4000 researchers to be > found, anywhere on this planet. I do not think any of you are stupid. > I do not think any of you are lazy. But I do think many of you under- > estimate what we as a group have managed to do, over these years. I > think this is partly because of how quickly it seemed to happen. It > had to happen some day... that day is today. Accept it and be glad! > > -- Ward Shrake -- Hi Ward, I guess the main problem is that in the past we submitted everything to you and you posted it on your website, making it THE bible for any Arcadia related info. Now since people have their lifes and probably no time to read everything, this opportunity is used like a real-life conference where everybody is talking to all the others at once. I guess we all need and appreciate you being the leader of this group, sorting things and asking us to behave. But you shouldn't get frustrated although I do understand your point that once a rumour is spread it is very hard to bring it back to where it belongs, which is the bin at times. But we just started and will surely make progress. And we are all old enough I guess. Unlike many people over at Jaguar Interactive for instance, that still fight their "Jaguar is better than ... you name it" wars. My $0.02 Stefan 59 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:22am Subject: Is this the Arcadia 2001 successor? stefanpiasecki Hi, please have a look at this link: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1344136559 What kind of console is this? It looks like a CBS, but the system specs and especially the screenshot seem to indicate that it very well might have been a member of the same technical family than the Arcadia (family in terms of the Interton being the grandfather, the Arcadia the the father and this one the son). The game looks very much like a polished and modern version of this Interton PacMan-clone. Can anybody help? Thanks Stefan P.S.: If anything was posted about this console before or I have missed any refernce on any homepage, please don't mind. 60 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:31am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia : Devilman the Dot-Muncher stefanpiasecki > Monster Man -- uncertain, but the screen does NOT match any known Pac- > Man clone on the Arcadia. However, there is a game called "Devilman -- > the dot muncher" that exists on the Arcadia, but that Ward has not > archived or seen in person... this may or may not be a ported game. Ward, I have just won an MPT-03 auction this morning where this game is a part of the lot. We'll soon know if this is a copy of CrazyGobbler or a new game. If it is new, you'll have it shortly to archive it. Stefan 61 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:40am Subject: Re: Arcadia cartridge : Boss stage in SpaceVultures? stefanpiasecki > > And there is -- I'd bet money -- an overseas variation on Space > Vultures that has the "boss" stage that is missing in the US cart. Hi, how comes that you think this? Funny but true: when I bought Space Vultures in 1982 for the TVG 2000 I bought it because somebody told me that there was a boss stage in it like in Phoenix. Believe me: I played the game literally for hours or more and never found any boss stage (only to show the mates in school that my lil Arcadia could do the same than their 2600). Only the same two levels that are as easy as misguiding a blind. I would be very interested in any more news about this. When did you hear that? It does make sense though, because seeing the same two levels all the time without any logical end or shootout or something does not really make sense. I can herewith confirm that the TVG does not have a boss stage (I can also confirm that I will now have a close look at any other version of the game I can lay my greedy little hands on). Or were you thinking of a particular version of the game? I have never heard of any for the Palladium for instance... Stefan 62 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:39am Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: (snip) > Now, I never want to hear MPT- > 02 mentioned ever again :) I apologize if it seems like I brought that back up to be critical of you, Bill. That was not my intent at all. Please bear with me... A lot of what I am saying recently, will make sense later. Let me try to explain... I am thinking far in advance of what is going on now, and am trying to cut off many serious problems before they happen. Among them, confusion as to which console belongs to what carts, and so on. I think many problems are going to end up being unavoidable, but I am trying to minimize that, as much as within my limited power. The point I was trying to make is that you guys are the best of the best, anywhere in the world. The eight current members of this message board group are probably two thirds or more of all the people that care at all about researching either the Interton or Arcadia game consoles. (There are others, but only a handful of them.) And *WE* are all over-whelmed right now, with the huge amount of information that suddenly became available. We are all used to sorting through huge amounts of information, but we are having a hard time handling the overwhelming amount of data we have uncovered. If we are having a hard time dealing with this, among ourselves, can you imagine what fun we are all going to have, trying to get the public to correctly and/or fully understand what we are learning? So my point is sort of what Adam Trionfo just posted... how in the hell are we all going to manage all the raw data we have available? The public is not interested in doing research on their own. Whatever they see in print, that's gospel as far as they are concerned. This is not an academic or moot point, to me. I am writing the new section of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" (version seven) right now. The deadline to have everything in to DP is in three weeks. I feel I have no choice but to run around like a chicken with its head cut off, stressing myself (and you guys) out, during the short term. As soon as I've submitted my write-up to DP, I can calm down a lot. But if I do not "get it right" when I print my sections in the guide, then a lot of what I say may be proven wrong, after the guide goes to press. At that point, we are all screwed... and I fear that problem. Over the years, I have already had several surreal conversations with members of the public before, in which they quote something that I wrote, years ago, and tell me that it proves that what I am saying now, is wrong. And there is no polite way to make these people "pay attention". They do not care enough about the subject to do anything more than skim something, if it seems like a complex subject. They do this, strip out 3/4 of the meaning you wrote into it, and then argue with you that they know what they're talking about, and you do not. This HAS already happened to me, more times than I care to remember. Case in point... I have been saying for two years now, in print, in the Arcadia 2001 FAQ document, that the Arcadia console DOES NOT HAVE 28 KILOBYTES OF RAM in it. That is a lie. It was a lie when someone from Emerson's marketing department said it twenty years ago, and it is still a lie today. But I still see it printed on other people's web sites, even this week, because that lie was printed in a gaming magazine 20 years ago, and these people did not read my Arcadia FAQ. Case in point... auctions on eBay. People are just now beginning to see, very dimly, that there are multiple families of Arcadia clones. But they do not have the latest data; they have data years out of date now. And as far as they know (or care), it is 100% up to date. In DPCG #6, I said there were two families -- Emerson and MPT-03. In DPCG #7, I know what is going to happen when I say that that there are four confirmed families now... many readers, who do not ever pay the full attention that they should when faced with a confusing and complex subject, are going to merely skim a few of the sentences, get the wrong idea completely, and think the same thing that Bill did... that the MPT-02 is another undiscovered Arcadia family. I expect them to still be telling me, two years from now, that known clones of the Fairchild Channel F are really an undiscovered family. I expect the dozens of Interton clones will be mistaken. And I expect that I will end up burning out on the whole subject, possibly abandoning all this. Part of the problem in this type of a case is that the person is not really paying attention to whom we are; they do not read my name or Olivier's or anyone elses, when they read a web site or a printed source. So then when we try to tell them in person that we know more than they do, they say something like "you're full of it, 'cause the Digital Press guide says something different than what you said". How do you answer something like that? It is very frustrating. The sad and/or scary thing is that we all probably have more info in our heads or on our hard drives somewhere, that still is not "here". I cut about 30k out of my FAQ, and have about that much more raw info on my hard drive that I need to look at closely, to figure out what it all means. (Mostly technical observations on consoles and carts.) Whether we like it or not, unless we all find a very good way to manage this overwhelming amount of data, we ARE going to hear about the MPT-02 on a regular basis. Not from each other, but from members of the public that try to tell us all that they just discovered a new family of Arcadia (or Interton) clones. I can see it happening, over and over and over. And I am not looking forward to years of that! The best solution I can see is if we all pool our resources, figure out what we are going to tell the public, and make sure they have as little conflicting information as possible. And that won't be easy. -- Ward Shrake -- 63 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:54am Subject: List of games for the Arcadia-family stefanpiasecki Hi everybody, I would like to create a list of all Arcadia games that ever came out. The reason for this is simple: I now have almost complete collections of the TVG 2000 and the Arcadia library of games. I have catalogues for the TVG and the Emerson. But I noticed that although most games have the same numbers printed on the box, some are different. Some game have been released in the US, some haven't. Especially the Leisure-Vision library is interesting as it shows "Route 16", a game that wasn't released anywhere else than in Canada and their listings went up to #37, much more than every other official distri (afaik). But although I bought some Hanimex games way back in 1983, none of them (or none of every other distributor than Schmid and Emerson) came with a catalogue. I would be very interested to learn which distributor offered which games and when. A catalogue would really help to find out which games they had and if they all were released at all. So if anybody could tell me about the catalogues they have or at least about the no./title/distri of the games they have, such a list could be put together by us. I would also be interested to hear which games you all own for the MPT-03 or the Palladium, as there is very little information about the games libraries for these consoles. Thanks Stefan 64 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:57am Subject: Re: Is this the Arcadia 2001 successor? dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi, > please have a look at this link: > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1344136559 > > What kind of console is this? It looks like a CBS, but the system > specs and especially the screenshot seem to indicate that it very > well might have been a member of the same technical family than the > Arcadia (family in terms of the Interton being the grandfather, the > Arcadia the the father and this one the son). > The game looks very much like a polished and modern version of this > Interton PacMan-clone. > Can anybody help? > Thanks > Stefan > P.S.: If anything was posted about this console before or I have > missed any refernce on any homepage, please don't mind. Hi Stefan! Argh, hard to type in English as German is our native language ;) Well, I am just writing the Interton VC-4000 AND Creativision section for DPG7. The Creativision is a very obscure system and so I am interested in it for years ;) What we know up to now is ... that there is no relation between the Interton/Arcadia family and the Creativision family. Yes, the Creativision has a "family" too. In Europe (and i think in Asia) it was sold as the VTech Creativision and never got very popular, so it's very rare here. In Australia it was sold as the Dick Smith Wizzard (hmm, I would say Uncommon) as well as Hanimex Rameses (Rare) and as Creativision VZ-2000 (Extremely rare). In Japan it was sold as Funvision (Ultra rare). There exist also 2 home computers which are compatible to the Creativision: The VTech Laser 2001 and the Finnish Salora Manager. For this family exists a converter (Ultra rare) that allows the Creativision family consoles to play Colecovision carts! The guys from www.pelikonepeijoonit.net own one. Check their website for more info. The Creativision family is also far related to the Sega Master System and the MSX computers, tho both were released some years after the Creativision. This was only short info on the Creativision. There is much more info, but you know ... lack of time ;) ... You can find more info over the web (search google) or just wait a bit for my section in the DPG7 :) Well, so there are 3 things that are the same as in the Arcadia/Interton systems: 1. There were also clones of the Creativision 2. Hanimex had also their hands on the Creativision (Rameses) 3. The Creativision was developed in the Far East (VTech) The similarities end here ... but as far as we know there is no relation. But who knows ... let's dig and see what time brings. That's the so fascinating part of our hobby!!! :) Cheers, Dieter 65 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:07am Subject: Re: Is this the Arcadia 2001 successor? dieterk_ccc Just another thing on this Creativision auction: It's one of the highest priced Creativision I have ever seen, so I am a bit surprised that it got a bid. I got a Creativision, also on ebay.de last spring, with 5 games (all boxed) for about 110 Euro. The Dick Smith Wizzard consoles on ebay.au usually go even far cheaper. The Creativision IS that rare, so the price of 180 Euro would be ok. But all of the Creativision consoles that I saw on ebay within the last few years had their high bids waaaay under 180 Euro, usually they went for about 70 - 100 Euro. It just seems that only very few people care of this console, maybe because it wasn't released in the United States. So the prices stay "low", even if it is so rare. Cheers, Dieter 66 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:15am Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: (snip) > Secondly - A MPT-03 System appeared on > eBay.au with a cartridge, M7 Math/Logic. > Its not in Wards list (snip) A lot of things are not on my lists right now. I'm trying to catch up on all of that, so everyone can see "everything" all in one place. Here is the part where I yell at myself, to be fair and make up for being mean and rotten to you guys, in my earlier posts. ;-) Stefan just posted, saying that Ward was sort of the leader to this group, and that Ward's web site was sort of "the bible" for some time. I do appreciate the acknowledgement given to me by my fellow researchers, historians, art critics, or whatever it is that we are. But honestly, I have never seen myself as a "leader" of this group. I did not before, and I do not now. I could not be doing what I'm doing now, without all the help that each of you, individually, contributed. If anything, I see my role as more of a spokesman for the group... I sort of take what others have told me, try to match it up with what other others also told me, and tell the public what we, as a group, are thinking about certain things at any given point in our efforts. My current "stressing out" phase is mostly due to the upcoming version of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" book, that only gets printed once every two or three years. As I said in another thread, I fear that what I put in print now, might haunt the group for quite some time... because people will at least skim the DP guide, but they generally have no interest in doing much research on the Internet. So I want to make sure I'm not hurting us, instead of being able to clearly send this group's message to the public, via the guide. In part, I think Dieter's discoveries in Interton-land have affected those of us in Arcadia-land, in a very positive way. Now that we know there are two generations of consoles, one based upon the other, half of my two-year old questions, printed within the last version of the guide, have more or less been answered. The Interton would have just confused things even more than they were to begin with, except that Dieter did such a darned good job of research and writing about it. I sort of think of Dieter's information as the "Rosetta Stone" in a way. A lot of things make sense to me now, that made no sense before. Going back to yelling at myself, as promised... ;-) But you guys have not seen my latest conclusions and so on, yet. I'm working on it. I hope to be able to fix that, to some degree, soon. Before Dieter's information appeared on my personal radar screens, as it were, I had a bunch of information sitting on my hard drive, that was submitted to me, but that was not on my so-called Bible web site. This was mostly because the information made no clear sense to me. It was not until the Interton relationship was clarified, that I could then figure out where all those other puzzle parts properly fit in. Which basically means that most of this unexpected rush of new info is "all my fault". I had the info, but did not know how to get it out to the rest of this group. Doing things in e-mail basically sucks, for things that really should be discussed as a group. (Hence, once I had started to see things in that way, the creation of this message board, as a place for all of us to meet and discuss many things.) Once I get my guide write-up done, I am going to post a message here, inviting all of you guys to proof-read it. That will hopefully work to answer some of the "big picture" questions, and to put things in better overall perspective. But I'd better get back to writing it.... -- Ward Shrake -- 67 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:22am Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects dieterk_ccc > In part, I think Dieter's discoveries in Interton-land have affected > those of us in Arcadia-land, in a very positive way. Now that we know > there are two generations of consoles, one based upon the other, half > of my two-year old questions, printed within the last version of the > guide, have more or less been answered. The Interton would have just > confused things even more than they were to begin with, except that > Dieter did such a darned good job of research and writing about it. I > sort of think of Dieter's information as the "Rosetta Stone" in a > way. A lot of things make sense to me now, that made no sense before. Stop it Ward! I am getting red!!! *blushing* :) > Once I get my guide write-up done, I am going to post a message here, > inviting all of you guys to proof-read it. That will hopefully work > to answer some of the "big picture" questions, and to put things in > better overall perspective. But I'd better get back to writing it.... That's what I thought too doing with my Interton foreword for DPG7. I will post it here and it would be great if you guys could proof-read it. Cheers, Dieter 68 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:38am Subject: Re: Screenshots and console emulation dieterk_ccc > The idea of a web page full of side-by-side screenshots is very good. > I like that idea, Dieter. Thanks for the input, Ward! > The emulated screenshots would have quite a few errors in them. Even > MESS, which is the best Arcadia 2001 software emulator, has problems > in terms of game colors, game graphics and so on. The gameplay is not > too far off, but audio - visually the emulator still needs work. > > If you want to go ahead and do that, Dieter, just to have something > up there for now, that's fine with me. But I would strongly suggest > you label it clearly, that they are emulated screenshots, and are not > from a "real" system. It would be more than we have now, even though > it would be doing double-work; emu screenshots now, real ones later? > Hm yes, I thought that the emulated games would look "different", and I don't like the fact too much, but I think it is better than nothing. Well, I am very busy in my job right now, PLUS the work on DPG7, so it might take a bit until I get this screenshot page done. I think I will first go with the emulated Arcadia games and put notes on this on the page. Except I have enough money in the meantime to get me an Arcadia multicart then ... :) > I am not so sure that additional emulator work is going to happen, > since I just got word that PeT, the Arcadia 2001 emulator author, is > no longer with the MESS team. (I have no further details.) Similarly, > Paul Robson who wrote the code PeT improved upon in MESS, also has no > desire to be involved with that particular emulator. For now -- and > maybe for years -- it looks like Arcadia emulation will be imperfect. > I am glad we have what we have now, but I don't expect too much more. Yes, I heard from PeT that he left MESS :( ... But I agree: I played the Arcadia emu on MESS for the first time today, and allthough it is not perfect, they did a great job and I am very happy with it! > Also, there seems to be the raw beginnings of an Interton VC-4000 > emulator in MESS, but it is not hooked up to the outside world. Paul > does not feel it is worth his own effort to emulate those games, so > do not look to him to finish it up. And unless I am mistaken, PeT's > having left the MESS team will probably hurt Interton emu efforts. I saw some real interest in Interton emulation by certain person, so I have a good feeling that we will have an Interton emu within the next few months. Let's hope it! :) Cheers, Dieter 69 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:46am Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "dieterk_ccc" wrote: (snip) > Stop it Ward! I am getting red!!! *blushing* :) But it is true, Dieter. As far as I am concerned, your on-going efforts in Interton-land have acted like the "Rosetta Stone" for better being able to understand lots of stuff in Arcadia-land. I don't think you are giving yourself enough credit... partly because I have not done all the edits I need to, on my DPCG #7 write-up. Once you see how many references there are going to be included in that, you will probably see why I am "gushing" over all the work you did. I also think that Olivier's work, in writing up and posting the info he has up on his "old-computers.com" web site, has been invaluable. Between the work that you two guys did, a lot of my own unanswered questions that were originally printed in DPCG #6 (the older version) are now at least partially answered. But you'll see, when I'm done. > That's what I thought too doing with my > Interton foreword for DPG7. I will post > it here and it would be great if you guys > could proof-read it. Ummm.... no offense, Dieter, but posting it here would be a bad idea. I think it would be much better for all of us and for Digital Press, if we just send our write-ups in e-mail form to our proof-readers. Joe Santulli, editor of the guide, has said he thinks that some of the newer, competing guides *might* have already "lifted" information from the existing guide. If we posted our final or rough draft texts here, anyone from outside the group can just take our work without our permission, maybe reword it a little, and print it as if it was their own work. We've all done too much work for that to be allowed. Also, collectors could just download the file, and spread it around to all sorts of people, which might hurt future sales of the guide. And as I mentioned before, I greatly fear competing with myself... I would ideally like one and only one source of information regarding these subjects, to avoid hopelessly confusing our readers. Once a copy of our rough draft texts got out and started to spread, we will never be able to correct the actual record, in the public's eyes. I'd rather we just shared all of our final write-ups among ourselves in private e-mail, for those reasons. The group will still have access to it, and we won't be creating any problems for ourselves. -- Ward Shrake -- 70 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:49am Subject: Re: Screenshots and console emulation commie_fan Dieter: wait a little while on the Arcadia screenshots. I will see what I can do, to put an Arcadia multicart into your hands, so you can just do the screenshots from the "real thing". But right now, I have to focus on finishing up my sections for the guide, and so on. -- Ward Shrake -- 71 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 8:04am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia games are ports of Interton games commie_fan Another quick observation, in regards to the Interton ports... Sly DC's big list of stuff included a reference to a cart called Capture on what appears to be an Ormatu clone console. I looked up the actual eBay auctions that came from, and saw that the actual name is "Capture / Bowling" and that another cart on that list included "Bowling" just by itself. This is the kind of tenous but rather important distinction that needs to be treated very carefully. My guess is that Sly assumed that this was just a name variation of Capture, so he eliminated the "Bowling" part of the name. It is my own guess that the evidence we have so far points to it being just what it says; a copy of both two seperate games, both originating on the Interton. My guess is that the separate "Bowling" cart is the later "3D" version that showed up as an Emerson family cartridge. In other words, there seem to be 2 bowling games on the Ormatu console. This and other things are sort of making me think that the Ormatu console actually came before the MPT-03 consoles. But there is other evidence saying just the opposite, so who knows? (What a pain this all is! Arrggghhhh!!!!!) I admit I did the same sort of thing myself; I added a zero to the part numbers on that list, that I am going to take back out. Now that I have seen the pictures of the actual carts on auction, I can see that there is a huge part number printed on the cart's front label, and that there clearly is no leading zero listed. I had distorted the official record with my bad assumption, when I made that seemingly small change. Be careful guys, to avoid this! I will be working more on the big list today, in preparation for the guide. Thanks to Sly DC for putting it all in one place, etc, etc. -- Ward Shrake -- 72 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 8:06am Subject: Re: Arcadia cartridge : Boss stage in SpaceVultures? commie_fan Stefan... good question, but already answered in my DPCG #6 write-up. You will see the latest info, when I finish my DPCG #7 write-up. And thanks for your on-going support in the archiving department! -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > > > > And there is -- I'd bet money -- an overseas variation on Space > > Vultures that has the "boss" stage that is missing in the US cart. > Hi, > how comes that you think this? Funny but true: when I bought Space > Vultures in 1982 for the TVG 2000 I bought it because somebody told > me that there was a boss stage in it like in Phoenix. Believe me: I > played the game literally for hours or more and never found any boss > stage (only to show the mates in school that my lil Arcadia could do > the same than their 2600). Only the same two levels that are as easy > as misguiding a blind. I would be very interested in any more news > about this. When did you hear that? > It does make sense though, because seeing the same two levels all the > time without any logical end or shootout or something does not really > make sense. > I can herewith confirm that the TVG does not have a boss stage (I can > also confirm that I will now have a close look at any other version > of the game I can lay my greedy little hands on). > Or were you thinking of a particular version of the game? I have > never heard of any for the Palladium for instance... > Stefan 73 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 8:12am Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > I was the one who told Ward first about > the Palladium-systems that then became > the 3rd lost tribe of the Arcadia-family > and loaned him some very rare TVG carts, > The End for instance. (snip) "The End" and "Grand Prix de Monaco" and "Panzerspiel"... see, I told you guys I kept track of who loaned me what carts! ;-) Oh, and Stefan... I loved that "lost tribes" term. Very cool! -- Ward Shrake -- 74 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 8:32am Subject: Re: List of games for the Arcadia-family commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi everybody, > I would like to create a list of all > Arcadia games that ever came out. (snip) Ouch! Well as much as I hate to say this, we can now add Stefan's name to the list of those folks that did not take all the time to carefully read all the info here. At least he's in good company, since we're just about all quilty of doing it at least once. :-) Sly DC has already made a huge compilation effort, which lists not only game carts and part numbers and so on, by both console and family affiliation, but lists console names and so on and so on. http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm If that is not what you meant, Stefan, just slap me silly? Also, I like what you said here and in e-mail, about having catalogs. I for one would like to see images of the early and later ones you have, to compare their early plans with the post-lawsuit plans. I have scans of the Ormatu catalog that are much larger and more detailed than the ones "Retro Rene" Kamerbeek has on his web site. (He loaned me the original catalog, and I scanned it in.) Stuff like that is going to be weeks from now... I'm too busy to post them yet. And as I said elsewhere, I am writing a HUGE update to my DPCG #6 text, to upgrade it to DPCG #7 status. More on that as I finish it. -- Ward Shrake -- 75 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 8:52am Subject: Re: Is this the Arcadia 2001 successor? commie_fan Most likely the mysterious, rumored console that would have come after the Arcadia 2001, was planned but never actually happened. I say this because "UA Limited" took at least three Arcadia 2001 games, and ported them over to the Atari 2600. Licensed arcade games, too. I do not believe UA would have done this, if a third console was made. See my web site's recently-massively-updated FAQ for more info. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi, > please have a look at this link: > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1344136559 > > What kind of console is this? It looks like a CBS, but the system > specs and especially the screenshot seem to indicate that it very > well might have been a member of the same technical family than the > Arcadia (family in terms of the Interton being the grandfather, the > Arcadia the the father and this one the son). > The game looks very much like a polished and modern version of this > Interton PacMan-clone. > Can anybody help? > Thanks > Stefan > P.S.: If anything was posted about this console before or I have > missed any refernce on any homepage, please don't mind. 76 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 9:18am Subject: Digital Press guide revisions commie_fan Dieter: one other new thought, about proof-reading our sections of the guide. I think it is best if I read your section, and you read mine, BEFORE we allow any of the other group members to proof-read what we have written. That way, we can correct or alter the things that we both say, so that we -- as DPCG writers -- agree with one another. THEN we should offer to let other people read our sections. By the time they've read and absorbed it, and we make more changes to fix any problem areas the group finds, our sections should kick ass? -- Ward Shrake -- 77 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 2:13pm Subject: Checking what is written on chips inside carts commie_fan I think we can figure out who made at least some of the carts out there, but to do so, I really need some cooperation from you guys. Please open up some of your more odd carts, and see what information is printed on the actual ROM chips that are inside those carts. There are both date codes and manufacturer's symbols to be found in this way. If you can scan a picture of the outside of the chips in, that would be great. If not, just describe the text as good as you can. Most of the time, I have found stuff that did not tell me much. But even the "GI" -- General Instruments -- markings tell us something. I am hoping to find what looks like a squared-off "S" on some chips. Something I noticed today, in light of all the new info we have, shocked me. So much so that I want to be sort of quiet about it, until I can confirm this more positively. It is a major "discovery". I was looking through some of the scanned images that came from the carts that Michael Davidson had originally loaned me, years ago. He had carts made by Grandstand, that fit into a New Zealand console. He was the original source that loaned me "Crazy Climber" for archiving. Another collector loaned me a cart that was for the same console, at a later time. I am pretty sure I mixed up the scans I made of all of the Grandstand carts I once had here on loan, so I'd rather not say much more than I have already said, until Michael confirms some info for me. Once he straightens out my own poor memory, I'll say more. -- Ward Shrake -- 78 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 5:10pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects dieterk_ccc > Ummm.... no offense, Dieter, but posting it here would be a bad idea. > I think it would be much better for all of us and for Digital Press, > if we just send our write-ups in e-mail form to our proof-readers. Agreed! Cheers, Dieter 79 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 5:19pm Subject: Re: Digital Press guide revisions dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Dieter: one other new thought, about proof-reading our sections of > the guide. I think it is best if I read your section, and you read > mine, BEFORE we allow any of the other group members to proof-read > what we have written. That way, we can correct or alter the things > that we both say, so that we -- as DPCG writers -- agree with one > another. THEN we should offer to let other people read our sections. > By the time they've read and absorbed it, and we make more changes to > fix any problem areas the group finds, our sections should kick ass? > > -- Ward Shrake -- Agreed! This would also make sure that our texts don't include similar parts, but they complement one another. Good idea. Tho it will still take some days until my text is finished ... :/ Cheers, Dieter 80 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:35pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects stefanpiasecki > Oh, and Stefan... I loved that "lost tribes" term. Very cool! > > -- Ward Shrake -- Oh, you know that I am a fan of BSG and they are always talking about the 13th lost tribe of manking etc. So I just picked it up from what Glen A. Larson left behind 8;)) Stefan 81 From: "oboissea" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:37pm Subject: ok... oboissea You were right Ward about the fact that we don't have read all the info available before posting here. We shoud all do this, before trying to discuss anything here, so we could start all with the same level of knowledge. It take times for sure, but I printed your FAQ (43 pages!) and read it all! The problem is that we maybe read it some months/years ago, but didn't know what changed exactly in it since then, so were lazy to sort that all. One conclusion so far: our beloved systems derserve a very complete site, with all screenshots, box scans, docs, pcb pix, systems pix, game lists, etc. so, at least each of us, can compare everything. Ward's site is the closest to this, but, my personal opinion, is that is would need a "lifting". I could re-design your website if you want (that's my "real-life" job), so the information could be more accessible (is that english?)... I know you don't have time now, to think about that, but we could discuss it later. I'm VERY interested by all this stuff about obscure systems, but if don't post that much, it's because my site WWW.OLD-COMPUTERS.COM takes all my time! I spend several hours a day working on it, including the (too) many emails I receive... This month it will reach more than 70 000 unique visitors a month! If I'm saying this, it's because I will soon open the console museum, and our obscure systems will be the first systems to be included. I think it will be a good way to spread the truth about them one for all (I will need your help guys). However it will not be as complete as a dedicated site like Ward's could be. I have some information at home that I could send to this group, like PCB scans of the MPT-3, or high resolution scan of the MPT-03 flyer with game list, etc. I promess I will take time to do this. One or two reflections though: - the Hanimex MPT-03 is a pure guess of myself, which is wrong I think. I made up this because I own an Hanimex MPT-02, so I thought there were an Hanimex MPT-03 (sorry, I was young)! I think this should be deleted, as Hanimex already non-MPT-03 Arcadia clones... - The Soundic MPT-03, is also a guess from me. But this could be true. The fact is that on my Prestige MPT-03 box, there is a picture of a MPT-03 system. By looking carefully at it, we can see that the SOUNDIC name on the console has been artificially erased... So there sould have been at least one Soundic MPT-03 system, the one picture :- ) - last thing, but I need to sort my old notes again, Soundic seemed to hold a special role in all this stuff. I think they "developped" (maybe on Philips' design, I don't know) several systems that they licenced to other manufacturers like the SD-2xx consoles which, I know, are not part of the discussion here, but which could help us understand better what happened for our systems (http://www.old- computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=6). Ok, I stop here because that's already a pretty long post to read. Sorry guys... 82 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:40pm Subject: Re: List of games for the Arcadia-family stefanpiasecki > Ouch! Well as much as I hate to say this, we can now add Stefan's > name to the list of those folks that did not take all the time to YES, I am there. I am on this list. Wahoo. Sorry, but indeed I didn't notice. Anyways, do you remember the CD I once sent? I guess there was a complete catalogue scanned, the latter one with more games. Due to a bad HD crash I lost almost everything so I can only ask you to have a look at the CD (and maybe send me a copy of it back - this has time. You can do send this toegther with my multicart after the upgrade to the latest games and I still even have to send back this cart LOL). But indeed this list is pretty much what I wanted to do. Stefan 83 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 6:57pm Subject: Sly DC's lists stefanpiasecki Hi there, this list is a great help. Thanks Sly. I have some questions though: 1) the Bandai list is marked as "complete". Does anybody know why there are games with a number of 50 and above? I also remember a screenshot that showed quite a number of carts, although I didn't actually count them 2) The Tele-Fever list is also complete. There were only four games available 3) The Palladium list: - Angriff der Ufos is Missle War in Arcadia-terms (iAt) - Intelligenz?bung is Brain Quiz iAt - Video-M?hle is Capture iAt - Raumfahrt and Weltraum-Abenteuer are both the same I guess: Space Mission in Arcadia terms. Raumfahrt is afaik the title for the Mr. Altus system. I guess Matt has this game, maybe he can confirm. I concentrate on collecting the Palladium and its games - Video-Panzerspiel is unique to this system as far as I know and must not be seen as the MPT-03 game Combat on the Palladium 4) Nevertheless I noticed that the Leisure-Vision library is not represented. Although this library is largely identical to the Arcadia-library, it is still interesting to see that the highest number there is 37, leaving me with little ideas of which games they released if they didn't release for example almost identical games like Escape and Robot Killer. I concentrate mostly on collecting LV games, but I don't have all of them and no catalogue (which would be very helpful). Thanks Stefan 84 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:01pm Subject: Re: Is this the Arcadia 2001 successor? stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Most likely the mysterious, rumored console that would have come > after the Arcadia 2001, was planned but never actually happened. I > say this because "UA Limited" took at least three Arcadia 2001 games, > and ported them over to the Atari 2600. Licensed arcade games, too. I > do not believe UA would have done this, if a third console was made. >you are right. But it may also be possible that if Philips/Signetics indeed developed the hardware, the games-developer (and maybe manufacturer of the hardware) UAL ran dry because of bad sales figures and had to do this move. In this case it might still be possible that a new system was planned and even partly developed, either by Signetics or together with them. But okay, I don't want to spread rumours here. And Dieters answer about this system answered my questions fully. Stefan 85 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:17pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects billlagr Hi Stefan :) Well, I'm relived that you won it - actually I was really annoyed at first, I thought it was going to someone who didnt appreciate what they were getting, but now I know that its gone to a good home - I'm happy :) Bill --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > > I was bidding on, because it had a Breakaway cart which I dont > have, > > that went for about $60.00, so aside from their "fun" value it > seems > > that they have a big $$ value too) > > Bill > > Hi Bill, > may I introduce myself first. My name is Stefan Piasecki and I am an > Arcadia (TVG 2000) owner since the early days in 1982 and love the > system since then. I own many other systems as well but this is > another story because the TVG 2000 was my first system at all and it > surely influenced my life as for example Tanks a lot gave me a very > early and first impression of what it may mean to develop strategies > in a game - I am today working as a games producer. > I was the one who told Ward first about the Palladium-systems that > then became the 3rd lost tribe of the Arcadia-family and loaned him > some very rare TVG carts, The End for instance. > > As for your question: I guess the Fun with Math game you are > referring to could be the good old Brain Quiz. I own all games that > are available for the Arcadia family (except the Japanese releases) > plus many for the Palladium (that has games that only seem to exist > on the Palladium or on the MPT-03 consoles) and have never heard or > seen of anything that goes into the direction of math or logical > games except Brain Quiz. On the Palladium Brain Quiz is > called "Intelligenz-Spiel" (Game of Intelligence) or something like > this, so you'll probably didn't miss much except finding out that > this is a name variation. On the other hand as Ward has recently > found out, some programmers developed games for the Interton and the > Arcadia and there are about 4 math and logical games available on the > Interton. > > I am sorry, but I was the one who won this MPT-03 auction this > morning. I didn't know that you are a fellow collector. I really want > to find out what is behind all this and which games appeared where > and what the manuals say about the distributor etc. I just hate it > when people bid on games just because they think they are cool while > others like our small bunch of people have to watch games going by > just because we weren't able to buy them. If any games or other items > are of interest to the Arcadia community, I usually loan them to Ward > so that he can make them available for everybody. > > All the best > Stefan 86 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:23pm Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books billlagr After reading this thread, I thought I might go to the horses mouth so to speak - Signetics. I emailed them, explained our situation, explained that we thought maybe that at one stage they themselves published the schematics for the MPT-03 family and realtives, unfortunately this was theire reply (read below) Reading back the message, I believe that whoever replied misundersood what I was actually asking for, so I might re-phrase the question and ask them again. Their web page contains little of value to us, except a short history which confirms the dates that Signetics was owned by Philips --- Dear Bill LaGrue First, thank you for your inquiry message. As you can see on our web site ( www.signetics.com ), we Signetics is IC assembly & test company in Korea. In case of IC assembly & test, we can help you , But we do not sales Manufactured Device . It is difficult to inform you what you want . Thanks & Best Regards Signetics Korea HB Kim --- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Editorial note -- This is the initial posting on a subject I hope > others think about, and add information to. The way I plan to keep > the conversation half-way organized and easy to understand, is for me > to post the RUMOR all by itself (as one seperate post). Then the > responses will come after it, with one posting per response. Other > people can then read what was said so far, and respond accordingly. > > ========================== > > RUMOR: > > Part of the reason that there are so many "Interton VC-4000" > and/or "Arcadia 2001" consoles all over the world, is that chip- > maker "Signetics" published the console design schematics in public > literature, such as their hardware "data books". (Signetics made the > 2650 processor chips used in both systems. Signetics also made the > Interton's 2636 co-processor chip, and the Arcadia 2001's "2637" co- > processor chip; that much is fact.) Signetics may have printed > programming examples in public literature, showing everyone > interested how to program simple games for their system. This allowed > anyone in the world with manufacturing technology to easily make the > system. > > If this rumor is proven to be true, it changes the now-accepted view > of video gaming's history in at least one minor way. Game consoles > from the 1990's -- such as the "3DO" -- were talked about in company > literature as if they were the first console that was designed by one > company, and that any other manufacturer was allowed to build their > own version of the console. This was said by 3DO officials to be the > first time this marketing concept had ever been invented or tried in > gaming. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 87 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:26pm Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books billlagr I thought this was better in a seperate post (Apologies to Ward for not emailing him this - I thought it may benefit everyone) While trawling around looking for some info from Signetics, I did come across a .pdf version of the Signetics 2650 reference manual http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/processors/2650/2650UM.pdf Bill. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Editorial note -- This is the initial posting on a subject I hope > others think about, and add information to. The way I plan to keep > the conversation half-way organized and easy to understand, is for me > to post the RUMOR all by itself (as one seperate post). Then the > responses will come after it, with one posting per response. Other > people can then read what was said so far, and respond accordingly. > > ========================== > > RUMOR: > > Part of the reason that there are so many "Interton VC-4000" > and/or "Arcadia 2001" consoles all over the world, is that chip- > maker "Signetics" published the console design schematics in public > literature, such as their hardware "data books". (Signetics made the > 2650 processor chips used in both systems. Signetics also made the > Interton's 2636 co-processor chip, and the Arcadia 2001's "2637" co- > processor chip; that much is fact.) Signetics may have printed > programming examples in public literature, showing everyone > interested how to program simple games for their system. This allowed > anyone in the world with manufacturing technology to easily make the > system. > > If this rumor is proven to be true, it changes the now-accepted view > of video gaming's history in at least one minor way. Game consoles > from the 1990's -- such as the "3DO" -- were talked about in company > literature as if they were the first console that was designed by one > company, and that any other manufacturer was allowed to build their > own version of the console. This was said by 3DO officials to be the > first time this marketing concept had ever been invented or tried in > gaming. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 88 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:29pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects & Auctions stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > Hi Stefan :) > Well, I'm relived that you won it - actually I was really annoyed at > first, I thought it was going to someone who didnt appreciate what > they were getting, but now I know that its gone to a good home - I'm > happy :) > > Bill Bill, do you already have a Tempest system? Those auction guys calculate the shipping costs at the moment and if the games without the system are significantly cheaper at shipping, then you can have the console for free. I'd let the seller know and if you pay the shipping, this shouldn't be a problem for them. As I am getting a complete AutoRace now, I am considering selling my loose AutoRace cart. I need to get some money for this as this hobby is really consuming quite some ressources, but I guess I will ask the members of this group first before I throw it out into the wilderness. Cheers Stefan 89 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:31pm Subject: Re: Screenshots and console emulation billlagr Hi Dieter - I can capture the "real" screenshots of my MPT-03 collection - I have a video capture card, and my MPT-03 has been modified to have a nice, clear composite output.. Bill --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Dieter: wait a little while on the Arcadia screenshots. I will see > what I can do, to put an Arcadia multicart into your hands, so you > can just do the screenshots from the "real thing". But right now, I > have to focus on finishing up my sections for the guide, and so on. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 90 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:33pm Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > After reading this thread, I thought I might go to the horses mouth > so to speak - Signetics. I emailed them, explained our situation, > explained that we thought maybe that at one stage they themselves > published the schematics for the MPT-03 family and realtives, -- >great attempt, but I guess to you just happened what happens to everybody who contacts a company: you probably ended up at a low- paid, young and inexperienced customer-support person. To get the real guys you have to tell them a good story, like you are doing a scientific research or that you are a freelancer for a news- magazine and are working on this topic. I also think that this might not be the right company at all. "Our" Signetics seems to be a former daughter-company of the Dutch-based Philips. Maybe this company went out of business long ago. Stefan 91 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 7:39pm Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books billlagr Hey Stefan.. No, this _is_ our Signetics - as I mentioned earlier, their web page gives the dates, it was established in 1966, by Corning Glass, sold to Philips in 1975, then sold by Philips in 1995 Although, it is entirely possible that while it is Signetics, they dont do the same things anymore..they say that they are a "semiconductor assembly and test facility", which may mean they dont actually _design_ anything anmore, but are just a fabrication facility. That last part is purely speculation though, but thats how i read it --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > After reading this thread, I thought I might go to the horses mouth > > so to speak - Signetics. I emailed them, explained our situation, > > explained that we thought maybe that at one stage they themselves > > published the schematics for the MPT-03 family and realtives, > -- > >great attempt, but I guess to you just happened what happens to > everybody who contacts a company: you probably ended up at a low- > paid, young and inexperienced customer-support person. > To get the real guys you have to tell them a good story, like you are > doing a scientific research or that you are a freelancer for a news- > magazine and are working on this topic. > I also think that this might not be the right company at all. "Our" > Signetics seems to be a former daughter-company of the Dutch-based > Philips. Maybe this company went out of business long ago. > Stefan 92 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:25pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > Hi Stefan :) > Well, I'm relived that you won it > - actually I was really annoyed at > first, I thought it was going to > someone who didnt appreciate what > they were getting, but now I know > that its gone to a good home - I'm > happy :) > > Bill Just a suggestion, but I think it would be a good idea if we told each other what our eBay names are? (Mine is "wardster".) That way we will minimize stepping on each other's toes, and driving costs up. -- Ward Shrake -- 93 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:26pm Subject: Re: Re: Multiple Subjects tempest_2084 I bid under Tempest_2084 Matt > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > > > Hi Stefan :) > > Well, I'm relived that you won it > > - actually I was really annoyed at > > first, I thought it was going to > > someone who didnt appreciate what > > they were getting, but now I know > > that its gone to a good home - I'm > > happy :) > > > > Bill > > Just a suggestion, but I think it would be a good idea if we told > each other what our eBay names are? (Mine is "wardster".) That way we > will minimize stepping on each other's toes, and driving costs up. > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert reicher6@... Http://www.msu.edu/~reicher6/ Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 94 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:30pm Subject: Re: List of games for the Arcadia-family commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > Anyways, do you remember the CD I > once sent? I guess there was a > complete catalogue scanned, the > latter one with more games. (snip) I remember it, now that you mention it, Stefan. "Duh, Ward!" Guess I get to add my own name to the "not paying full attention" list... heehee. Who are we missing so far, on that list? I think two thirds of us are on it now, me included? ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- 95 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:35pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects billlagr Good thinking, 99...mines billlagr (Original huh?) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > > > Hi Stefan :) > > Well, I'm relived that you won it > > - actually I was really annoyed at > > first, I thought it was going to > > someone who didnt appreciate what > > they were getting, but now I know > > that its gone to a good home - I'm > > happy :) > > > > Bill > > Just a suggestion, but I think it would be a good idea if we told > each other what our eBay names are? (Mine is "wardster".) That way we > will minimize stepping on each other's toes, and driving costs up. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 96 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:36pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi there, > this list is a great help. Thanks Sly. > I have some questions though: (snip) I think the latest version of the list should fix most of that, and a number of things you did not mention. Same location, to find it: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm You will almost not recognize the cart portion of the list, although I did nearly nothing to the console half of it, so far. The cart list portion is now one huge list, sorted by company or console name, and then the program name. There are now 277 carts listed there, which includes the Emerson and Leisure-Vision lists... everything I had. -- Ward Shrake -- 97 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:38pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > Good thinking, 99...mines billlagr (Original huh?) (snip) While I'm thinking about it, I have seen a few non-message-board guy's names on certain auctions, and I do recognize them from these circles. Guys like Chris Hind... he has submitted info to me before. -- Ward Shrake -- 98 From: "oboissea" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:39pm Subject: Ebay ID oboissea Mine is Tara-fr, though I don't bid that much... 99 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:39pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists billlagr Ward - what time is it there??? are you really nocturnal?? --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > wrote: > > Hi there, > > this list is a great help. Thanks Sly. > > I have some questions though: > (snip) > > I think the latest version of the list should fix most of that, and a > number of things you did not mention. Same location, to find it: > > http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm > > You will almost not recognize the cart portion of the list, although > I did nearly nothing to the console half of it, so far. The cart list > portion is now one huge list, sorted by company or console name, and > then the program name. There are now 277 carts listed there, which > includes the Emerson and Leisure-Vision lists... everything I had. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 100 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:44pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > Ward - what time is it there??? > are you really nocturnal?? No, just very tired. I literally stayed up all night, and I'm definitely feeling it about now! (It's 5:43 AM at the moment.) These last two weeks or so, I have been living on a steady diet of Pepsi -- nectar of the Gods; gotta love it -- and supplementing that with doses of "Robotron: 2084" at semi-regular intervals. When even my Robotron arcade machine is not able to keep me awake and focused, though, bedtime is overdue! (A couple more posts, and I'm crashing!) -- Ward Shrake -- 101 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 10:47pm Subject: Wards Sleeping Habits billlagr ahh yes...the caffeine fuelled all nighters....I go the 30 pack of Pepsi, intermingled with short blacks straight from the espresso machine. its 10:50pm here... --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > > > Ward - what time is it there??? > > are you really nocturnal?? > > No, just very tired. I literally stayed up all night, and I'm > definitely feeling it about now! (It's 5:43 AM at the moment.) > > These last two weeks or so, I have been living on a steady diet of > Pepsi -- nectar of the Gods; gotta love it -- and supplementing that > with doses of "Robotron: 2084" at semi-regular intervals. When even > my Robotron arcade machine is not able to keep me awake and focused, > though, bedtime is overdue! (A couple more posts, and I'm crashing!) > > -- Ward Shrake -- 102 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 11:03pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects stefanpiasecki I am steve-vx 103 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 11:05pm Subject: Re: List of games for the Arcadia-family stefanpiasecki > Guess I get to add my own name to the "not paying full attention" > list... heehee. Who are we missing so far, on that list? I think two > thirds of us are on it now, me included? ;-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- Okay, everybody on the list pays $5 and we buy the rights of the name "Arcadia 2001", hahaha Stefan 104 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 11:07pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects stefanpiasecki > While I'm thinking about it, I have seen a few non-message-board > guy's names on certain auctions, and I do recognize them from these > circles. Guys like Chris Hind... he has submitted info to me before. > > -- Ward Shrake -- Yep, Chris must be invited into our small men-group. SP 105 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 11:09pm Subject: Re: Wards Sleeping Habits stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > ahh yes...the caffeine fuelled all nighters....I go the 30 pack of > Pepsi, intermingled with short blacks straight from the espresso > machine. > > its 10:50pm here... > Cool, it is 3.10 p.m. in Germany at the moment and I have 3 more hours in the office. But it is a rather peaceful day today (doh, shouldn't have said that. Murphy? Murphy...) Stefan 106 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 11:09pm Subject: Signetics apparently wrote Arcadia programs commie_fan Hi all. Here's that big announcement that I was vague about, earlier today... err, technically, yesterday. (Drum roll, please!) OK. Between myself and Bill LaGrue and Michael "Pinwhiz" Davidson, we have now positively confirmed that certain carts have mass-produced, masked ROMs in them... stamped with the Signetics manufacturing symbol. (Sort of a squared-off "S"... look at the 2650 or 2637 chips inside your console, assuming you can get past the RF shielding, etc.) This alone is a major discovery. It proves that at least SOME of the games for the Arcadia 2001 console group, were written by Signetics themselves and not any sort of a third party. This news alone forces us all to re-think the role of "UA Limited" as far as software goes. However, there are plenty of other new implications for all of us to consider for awhile, since that is not all that we found today. (When I give up sleep, I want it to be for some reason... and this was!) The second part of the discovery relates to when things were written, which when combined with whom, gives us plenty to think about. Masked ROMs are generally stamped with a date code... the year and the week. (For example, "8241" would be the 41st week of 1982, or in plain English, October 1982.) Bill and Michael came up with multiple date codes in early 1981... not 1982, but 1981. Think about that?! The program "Alien Invaders" seems to be one of the most consistent carts to have both a Signetics manufacturing logo on the ROM chip, and to have an early 1981 date code stamped on it. One cart said "8103" or January 1981! Others in February were fairly common. Keep in mind that the dated message found inside the Interton VC-4000 game "Shootout" listed March 31, 1981. Lots of room for speculation, especially since that same programmer wrote the Interton "Invaders" game according to that same message. Very, very interesting news, eh? A date of "8241" on Crazy Climber has me intrigued, even though the chip maker is "General Instruments" (or GI) instead of Signetics. If you look carefully at the published news media reprints in my FAQ, it becomes clear that this date in October of 1982 comes AFTER the first major wave of copyright infringement lawsuits by Atari... and yet this ROM chip has an standard MPT-03 "MG-325" part number marking on it, as if the people overseas had no concern about Atari's lawsuits? I am not sure what it means, so far? But it sure is all intriguing? Feel free to grab a screwdriver, and start posting date codes, etc. And on that happy note, I'm going to go to sleep now! :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 107 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 11:15pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > > While I'm thinking about it, I have seen a few non-message-board > > guy's names on certain auctions, and I do recognize them from these > > circles. Guys like Chris Hind... he has submitted info to me before. > > > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > Yep, Chris must be invited into our small men-group. > SP Before I crash-and-burn from lack of sleep, I'm going to suggest two things... someone should write down all the eBay names that people are sending in, type it up, and post the list in the "files" section for future reference purposes. Also, feel free to take the initiative to invite folks to join us. (Anyone crazy enough to want to be involved, meets my requirements!) -- Ward Shrake -- 108 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 9, 2002 11:32pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Hi all. Here's that big announcement that I was vague about, earlier > today... err, technically, yesterday. (Drum roll, please!) > This is great news Ward. Do you remember me once telling you about the message "(C) UA Ltd. 198x" not appearing on the screen in every game although the cart always mentiones the copyright notice? It seems that from a certain point on the message was introduced in every game - maybe when the creators became aware that they were not only producing some demos but that these games would indeed go into production. This is for sure the case for every Arcadia-release (means: the message does not appear in simple games like Alien Invaders, but in more "mature" and complex games like Jump Bug), but I do know that several Palladium carts do not show this message. I have to verify if there are any games that exist on more than one clone that are different and show the message on one system while not on others (that would mean that there would have been alterations made to the code later). So if people post the creation dates of their chips, they may as well have a look for the copyright messages. I would like to discuss something else: Let's have a closer look at this hidden message in Space Attack: "To my wife Daisy and my son Jonathan From Choi Andrew Jul 1982 Galax.002" we now know that UA Ltd. was a Hong Kong based company, so maybe it would be possible to find this programmer in the white pages? If somebody would have time to browse the phonebook for Hong Kong, we might find his son or even the programmer himself: http://www.hk.pccw.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer? pagename=PCCW/PCCWHK/CustomerSu pport/Directories/WhitePages&cid=993198475060&pagelang=eng I just searched for Choi Andrew and found 3 entries. Of course I do not speak Chinese and I don't want to say that we should bother people, but nevertheless this could be a way to get hold of the programmer and ask him some very interesting questions. I also found entries in Singapore, another state with a large Chinese population (isn't Signetics based in Singapore?). If somebody knows this place of the world a little better, he might know who to contact at the HK chamber of commerce to find out if such a company (UA Ltd.) ever existed in HK. If not, okay, one place less to look at. Stefan 109 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:48am Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects dieterk_ccc > Just a suggestion, but I think it would be a good idea if we told > each other what our eBay names are? (Mine is "wardster".) That way we > will minimize stepping on each other's toes, and driving costs up. > > -- Ward Shrake -- Mine is "ccc---" Cheers, Dieter 110 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:45am Subject: Re: Screenshots and console emulation dieterk_ccc > Hi Dieter - > I can capture the "real" screenshots of my MPT-03 collection - I have > a video capture card, and my MPT-03 has been modified to have a nice, > clear composite output.. > > Bill Thanks for the kind offer, Bill! Let's see what I can work out with Ward regarding the Multicart. I will let you know then! Thanks, Dieter > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" > wrote: > > Dieter: wait a little while on the Arcadia screenshots. I will see > > what I can do, to put an Arcadia multicart into your hands, so you > > can just do the screenshots from the "real thing". But right now, I > > have to focus on finishing up my sections for the guide, and so on. > > > > -- Ward Shrake -- 111 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:17am Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects dieterk_ccc > Before I crash-and-burn from lack of sleep, I'm going to suggest two > things... someone should write down all the eBay names that people > are sending in, type it up, and post the list in the "files" section > for future reference purposes. Done. Take a look in the files section, boys :) Cheers, Dieter 112 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:50am Subject: Re: UVI Compugame kiwigame Hi Guys, With Wards gentle prodding I've joined the list and hope I can add something to this discussion. So some updates: Slys BIG List http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/big-list.htm "*** As for the Orbit Electronics: UVI Compu-Game - i have no idea which family it's belong. I only know that's an Arcadia 2001 clone. Will have to ask Michael Davidson (pinwhiz@...) if he can do a description or take a picture of his game system." This belongs to the "Grandstand Family" - it is in fact exactly the same system as the Grandstand. See here to see what I mean... http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/tunix.htm Grandstand at some stage seems to have bought out Orbits stock, rebadged it as there own system. There are 2 versions one with big Controllers (like the MPT Controllers) and one with smaller controllers. Most games came packed with 2 sets of overlays. Was this common else where. The CAT TRAX overlay is the nicest one with actual artwork (Cartoon Cat) on it... are there more like this? I'll do a better list of the "known" carts for this system & pass it through tonight... Theres 4 or 5 titles more not already on this list... Cheers Michael Auckland, New Zealand 113 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:28am Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" > wrote: > > Hi all. Here's that big announcement > > that I was vague about, earlier > > today... err, technically, yesterday. > > (Drum roll, please!) > > This is great news Ward. Do you remember > me once telling you about (snip) Just for the record, I want to say how much I appreciate all of Stefan's input over the years, along with his patience with me. Stefan is one of the only guys in this hobby that can push me into mental overload with the amount of cool info he sends me! (I am known for doing it to others regularly.) And he does it on a consistent basis. Considering that I am from the United States and speak only English, and that English is not Stefan's first language (like many of the folks on this board), that's all the more impressive to me!? But getting back to the question... I am slowly catching up, Stefan. I do remember things, but have not had time to get them online yet. I save all my e-mail, so nothing that I received is going to be lost. Your Palladium console observations, for instance, are in line to be dealt with, but most likely will not get their turn for a week or possibly multiple weeks. They are all in a big file, gathered into one place on my hard drive where all the other console observations are, from all of the people that submitted them. It needs much work, to both sort through it, figure out what it all means, and write it. "Patience, Luke...." I did not forget much, I promise you that! I still have to write the DPCG guide section, and that has a firm deadline. I'm also writing the VIC-20 guide section, with the same deadline. I'm hurrying as much as I can, to lay the groundwork for that. Once the guide sections are done, they still need to be proof- read, re-edited, finalized, and then converted from Word format to MigraineSoft Abscess database format before I'm done with all that. A lot of stuff will have to wait until the guide is finalized. Sorry. Not to mention trying to earn money to keep a roof over my head, somewhere in between all this stuff! Sadly enough, that is "a must"! -- Ward Shrake -- 114 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:04am Subject: RUMOR: Interton ports are short, newer games are long commie_fan Editorial note -- This is the initial posting on a subject I hope others think about, and add information to. The way I plan to keep the conversation half-way organized and easy to understand, is for me to post the RUMOR all by itself (as one separate post). Then the responses will come after it, with one posting per response. Other people can then read what was said so far, and respond accordingly. ========================== RUMOR: Arcadia researchers have long wondered why games made by the "Emerson family" companies -- Emerson, Leisure-Vision, Hanimex, Schmid, etc. -- were made in two different cartridge lengths, seemingly at random. It was obvious that there was a pattern to HOW they did it -- individual games always stayed in one size only -- but not enough of a pattern to make sense of WHY it had taken place. To date, no one has offered a pleasingly consistent explanation of why that had happened (that Ward is currently aware of). Ward's own theory (from a couple of years ago) was that the long games were always arcade ports, and that the short games were non- arcade ports. But this was never 100% satisfactory, because a few "long" titles were clearly not arcade game ports at all. However, now we know with reasonable certainty, that certain games are simply ports of games that were previously available on the Interton VC-4000 console group. With this new information, might it not be possible to look again at the long / short pattern? Ward's initial guess is that perhaps we will find out that the "short game carts" are all translations of Interton games, while the "long style carts" are all brand new games, written from scratch for use on the Arcadia 2001 console group? (He has not checked this fully yet.) Assuming it turns out to look like this new theory is closer to the truth than any other explanation we have seen so far, might we not also then look more closely at the pattern of games written by "UA Limited" to see whether or not they had copyright messages visible, either on the outside of the cartridges (labels) or on the screen? Again, assuming that all of this is true or mostly true, would it not be possible to then start to think in terms of Signetics having made some of the earlier, short style carts, while "UAL" and/or others may have written the later games for the Arcadia 2001 console group? Another related thing might be finding out more specifics on the news that at some point around the birth of the Arcadia, Interton as a company apparently went bankrupt. That might explain the transition, in a more satisfactory way, if it indeed later appears that Signetics wrote the earlier programs, and that UA Limited wrote the later ones? Also, try to mentally factor in the appearance of Activision on the international scene... before April 25, 1980 there was no such thing as a third-party software developer, anywhere, to our knowledge. Atari shot itself in the foot when it tried to sue Activision later in 1980, hoping to stop third-party software from being developed for its popular Atari 2600 VCS game console. The lawsuit failed, and it quickly became public knowledge that third-party software sales were not only legal, but could result in millions of dollars in profit. One final thing to note; the appearance of hidden messages found in code for both the Interton and Arcadia ROM images implies that at least one programmer for these consoles was thinking like the people that founded Activision... that he wanted to be credited for his work, and that his company would apparently not allow that to happen. In a sense, hiding his name in the code told potential competitors that he was both talented and available, if they wanted to hire him. -- Ward Shrake -- 115 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:36am Subject: Re: Arcadia cartridge : Boss stage in SpaceVultures? commie_fan A quick observation that I'll follow up on later... I just compared all of my printed Emerson catalogs with one another. Most of them are dated "7/82" and are all alike. However, one of them is dated "5/82" and it has some subtle differences. By comparing the two, I can now see that a number of the screenshots shown in the earlier catalog are fakes, or are at least different than the ones shown in later catalogs. These include the "Space Vultures" game -- an obviously faked screenshot is included. "Grand Slam Tennis" also has things I want to check against the published game's actual screens, to see what I can learn. The early catalog had no screenshot at all; the later one is questionable. And the "Space Attack" game screen shown in the 5/82 catalog is FAR too intricately colored for me to easily believe it is genuine. I will have to look into that more closely, as I find the time to. -- Ward Shrake -- 116 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 10:00am Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > we now know that UA Ltd. was a > Hong Kong based company (snip) I beg to differ! I consider that a VERY dangerous assumption, and not a fact at all. I apologize for saying it bluntly, but I want that clearly understood. We do NOT know for an absolute fact that "UA Limited" was a company based out of Hong Kong. We have a great deal of evidence that points towards SOME relationship of that kind, but we do not have absolute, undeniable proof that UA Limited was indeed a Hong Kong company. It is possible they were based anywhere on the planet, and simply used Hong Kong as a manufacturing wing. Lots of possibilities still exist, that have NOT been ruled out to my satisfaction at this point. And new information keeps appearing that challenges all we once assumed. We know that "Choi Andrew" left messages in Interton code, mentioning Hong Kong along with his name and a date. But please tread lightly here... just because he wrote games for UA Limited in 1982, on the Arcadia, and that he worked a year earlier in Hong Kong on the Interton, does NOT necessarily prove that he was working for UAL all along, or that UAL was based in Hong Kong. It is very possible that he worked at one place while writing Interton games, that had nothing to do with UA. Maybe he quit that old job, and started a new one, perhaps as a free-lancer? Maybe he was an unsung Activision, going off on his own with a few of his old colleagues? At this point, we simply do not know. If you simply assume he was working at / for UA all along, then you miss seeing any of that as a possibility!? The assumption that UA was in charge all along is also one that is under serious attack at present, due to recent information. We just found out yesterday that Signetics wrote an unknown number of games for the Arcadia. Some people were convinced that UAL was the one-and- only player in the Arcadia's history, but that was never 100% proven to be the case. It was just the strongest assumption we had before. And now it is a very weak assumption, that will likely get weaker. Another landmine that most of you are apparently forgetting about is the three arcade game ports that UA Limited wrote for Atari 2600 use in 1983. Another one beyond that is the whole Activision thing; the introduction of the first-ever third-party game software developers. The early 1980's were extremely unstable. We are on ground that is very shaky here... let us all strive to avoid making any dangerous assumptions, that will cloud our ability to see clearly, later on. Patience, people! Research is hard, painstaking work. Like it or not, it is also very slow work. There is no safe way around that fact IF we intend to come to accurate conclusions based on tangible evidence. Every incorrect conclusion that we jump to WILL slow our progress. Take a few minutes to think about that. It is extemely important! You cannot run blind-folded through a mine-field; not safely. And we are surrounded on all sides with things that can and will hurt us. In my opinion, we are all better off proceeding with EXTREME caution, than going miles down a road that leads nowhere, at great speed... only to have to come all the way back again once we reach a dead end. I apologize if I sound harsh. I'm just not getting through to the group that this is a special thing we have here. Let's use it well. Some of you are habitually missing a great deal of information, due to your excessive speed or lack of patience. Enthusiasm is welcome, and let's all have fun doing this work, but this requires discipline. This is not Usenet, where every other post is useless drivel of no real information value to anyone. We are all serious researchers. The "signal to noise" ratio in this group is potentially very high. Let's keep it that way. Don't skim postings, don't assume too much. If you have to take a week to think a posting over, to see all of the implied or hidden possibilities contained in it, by all means do it. I am choosing my words very, very carefully. If you guys want to get the full and proper use out of what I'm saying, you will all HAVE to slow WAY down, take your time, and read everything just as carefully. And then, to think carefully about how things seem to inter-relate. In the Sherlock Holmes novels, the detective habitually spent hours and hours gathering raw evidence, THEN spending additional hours in quiet contemplation of what it all meant. We must all do the same. I am going to be bogged down for awhile, writing the guide itself, so you may as well spend the next couple of weeks getting to REALLY know all the information that is already here, before we move forward. -- Ward Shrake -- 117 From: "kiwigame" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 11:54am Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > This is offered as partial SUPPORT for the RUMOR that Signetics > printed schematics in data books, thereby helping to create the > global spread of the Arcadia 2001 console group. > Unusually, it also existed as a 'build it yourself' book. This is a > german book, which shows you how to construct a console and gives > commented listings of a 'Pong' type game, and explains how to code > it. A friendly German chap gave me a rough translation of some of > the technical bits, which made it all much easier of course." Re: More background to this inc. Paul Robsons archived posts http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt fyi: CyberWindler is something of a known "netkook" :) "The book has the name: "TV-Computerspiele - Realisierung der Hard- und Software (Topp 166/167)" ISBN 3-7724-0436-7 written by: H.Bernstein, scientiffic assistence Prof. Otmar Kilgenstein Publisher: "Frech-Verlag",(C) 1980" Frech-Verlag are still going & produce books etc. for the Hobby market. The made LOTS of electronics books over the years. H.Bernstein = Herbert Bernstein A German Electronics expert who is still publishing! German guys try & make contact? So was there also a later Game Book in this series? YES! They also released another Book in 1982! "TV Spielcomputer - Elektor Verlag 1982 b008" Btw see: http://216.239.35.100/search?q=cache:- ob_zlqzJpMC:www.besteauktion.de/page.php3%3Fcat_id%3D771%26p% 3D0+Frech-Verlag+TV-Computerspiele&hl=en Anyone have this book? Cheers Michael 118 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:24pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects slydc Woah!!! Allready more than a hundred posts ? Kewl!! This will take me at least an hour just to read every messages, but it's worth it! Ok, i've just stoped at message #57 (for now) and i will read the rest afterwards. So if anyone has replied to Stepan about the Math/Logic game, sorry. The Fun with Math game could be (or could have) Brain Quiz, like Stefan wrote. But there is a Math/Logic cart, it was released by Polybrain and it's called Mathematic and Logic. It does exist since i have one complete in box. There are x6 overlays that comes with it in pairs: Maxit, Mind-Breaker and Hangman. But, as you say Stefan, Mathematic and Logic is indeed Brain Quiz! If you read the games description on the back of Brain Quiz, it says the same games as on the Mathematic and Logic cart. Hope that Ward will remember to add this in the DP Guide. --- Sly DC --- 119 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 1:34pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia : Devilman the Dot-Muncher slydc No need to wait to know, Devilman - The Dot Muncher AKA Nibblemen is indeed Super Gobbler, but with some very few (or none) alterations to the characters. Both game have the same maze, but i've tried to compare them with the screenshots in the manuals, and can't make out very well in the screenshots of the manual of Super Gobbler. If someone has a big sreenshot of Super Gobbbler, let me know. --- Sly DC --- 120 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:08pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia games are ports of Interton games slydc What can i say but...nobody's perfect! I have gathered many informations for the past 5 years, it may be an old information that i never had the opportunity to correct. I crammed every bit of informations i had in the list i gave you (and the one for Dieter) in less than 4 days. It can contain some misinformations, and for that, sorry about it. But it was what i had in my database archives. And no need for thanks Ward, i was only giving a hand so that readers for the next DP Guide will have their money's worth (and more). --- Sly DC --- In head over heel with the new Pong Section....(my head!! ouch!) 121 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:27pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Inte4000.txt Uploaded by : commie_fan Description : Archived postings that describe technical features of the Interton VC-4000 console. (See message #117.) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Inte4000.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, commie_fan 122 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:35pm Subject: Re: List of games for the Arcadia-family slydc Just took a look to the new updated list and it's more understandable than the one i've made. Great work Ward! :) As i'm shorting-out informations from my database, i notice that the Telung Rowtron Television Computer System in the "Rumor Mill" is still listed. Scratch that one, it's the name of the Rowtron clone of the Interton VC 4000. Oh have you checked upon the Orbit Electronics: UVI Compu-Game yet ? I still wonder to which family it belongs. You should also point out that Olivier Boisseau was a great help with his Arcadia 2001 web page (and also as a co-author of the Video Game FAQ Consoles). And as for the Video Direct International Home Vision H.V.C. 2001, i've kept the old page (that's is no more available) from Philippe Dubois web site. I have translated it from French to English and put the name of the Arcadia 2001 names released with the help of his descriptions. Now back to the reading... --- Sly DC --- 123 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:38pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists commie_fan Hi all. I just did a bunch of maintenance-type things to the big list, in the cart section. Mostly dealing with part numbers and the like. If you look at the latest list, you will see that I sorted it differently. (I set it up based on columns, for sorting things alphabetically, last night, and am experimenting with it tonight.) Right now, it is set up to list things by game names. All of the "3D Bowling" games names first (but no AKA's with it), then "3D Soccer" and so on. If you have carts laying around, it should be easy to see if they are already listed or not, by company. http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm If you hate the current sorting format, no worries, it will change. I'm using it to do something specific in the guide; checking which ROM images came out on what console families. Once everything is set, I can sort on part numbers or anything else. -- Ward Shrake -- 124 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:39pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong billlagr This is probably best suited to a collective effort - I dont know how accurate this is, becuase I only have MPT-03 Carts...But am I correct in saying that "Copyright UA Ltd" messages dont appear in MPT-03 carts, just Arcadia-family ones? I remember Ward mentioned that "UA Ltd" appeared on the PCB of his Arcadia, but no such message appears on the MPT-03's Ive looked at. This isnt to say that I'm right about this - just on the examples of carts and consoles Ive seen, which are all MPT-03's, no mention of "UA Ltd" is made. Can anyone confirm or prove it wrong? Bill PS - Signetics is based in Korea, with a marketing branch in San Jose, and a European division in France. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" > wrote: > > Hi all. Here's that big announcement that I was vague about, > earlier > > today... err, technically, yesterday. (Drum roll, please!) > > > This is great news Ward. Do you remember me once telling you about > the message "(C) UA Ltd. 198x" not appearing on the screen in every > game although the cart always mentiones the copyright notice? It > seems that from a certain point on the message was introduced in > every game - maybe when the creators became aware that they were not > only producing some demos but that these games would indeed go into > production. This is for sure the case for every Arcadia-release > (means: the message does not appear in simple games like Alien > Invaders, but in more "mature" and complex games like Jump Bug), but > I do know that several Palladium carts do not show this message. I > have to verify if there are any games that exist on more than one > clone that are different and show the message on one system while not > on others (that would mean that there would have been alterations > made to the code later). So if people post the creation dates of > their chips, they may as well have a look for the copyright messages. > > I would like to discuss something else: > Let's have a closer look at this hidden message in Space Attack: > "To my wife Daisy and my son Jonathan From Choi Andrew Jul 1982 > Galax.002" > we now know that UA Ltd. was a Hong Kong based company, so maybe it > would be possible to find this programmer in the white pages? > If somebody would have time to browse the phonebook for Hong Kong, we > might find his son or even the programmer himself: > http://www.hk.pccw.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer? > pagename=PCCW/PCCWHK/CustomerSu > pport/Directories/WhitePages&cid=993198475060&pagelang=eng > I just searched for Choi Andrew and found 3 entries. Of course I do > not speak Chinese and I don't want to say that we should bother > people, but nevertheless this could be a way to get hold of the > programmer and ask him some very interesting questions. > I also found entries in Singapore, another state with a large Chinese > population (isn't Signetics based in Singapore?). > > If somebody knows this place of the world a little better, he might > know who to contact at the HK chamber of commerce to find out if such > a company (UA Ltd.) ever existed in HK. If not, okay, one place less > to look at. > > Stefan 125 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:47pm Subject: Re: List of games for the Arcadia-family commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: (snip) > As i'm shorting-out informations > from my database, i notice that the > Telung Rowtron Television Computer > System in the "Rumor Mill" is still > listed. Scratch that one, it's the > name of the Rowtron clone of > the Interton VC 4000. (snip) But that's still good info to know. In my FAQ, I decided to list both the Interton and Arcadia clones. The way I set that HTML table up, it should help protect us all from eighty-gazillion "you forgot to list the (insert name) console as an Arcadia clone" type of comments. If it is an Interton clone instead of an Arcadia clone, it says so. I know this sounds stupid... but I have had Commodore VIC-20 cart lists up since 1994, and people would skim them, not find a cart in the alphabetic list (although it was mentioned as an AKA elsewhere) and would fill my e-mail box with "you forgot (insert name) cart". I finally gave up, and listed a "ghost" name for all of these carts, with the simple "this is just an AKA for (insert other name) cart". -- Ward Shrake -- 126 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 2:54pm Subject: Re: ok... slydc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "oboissea" wrote: > One or two reflections though: > - the Hanimex MPT-03 is a pure guess of myself, which is wrong I > think. I made up this because I own an Hanimex MPT-02, so I thought > there were an Hanimex MPT-03 (sorry, I was young)! I think this > should be deleted, as Hanimex already non-MPT-03 Arcadia clones... # Hi Olivier, been quite a time that we last chatted. I still # listed this game system since it's figures on your web site # and in the V.G.C. FAQ as well, but only as a rumor one. So, # you only made it up ? Shame on you!! LOL!!! Nah! Don't take me # seriously, it could have existed... > - The Soundic MPT-03, is also a guess from me. But this could be > true. The fact is that on my Prestige MPT-03 box, there is a picture > of a MPT-03 system. By looking carefully at it, we can see that the > SOUNDIC name on the console has been artificially erased... So there > sould have been at least one Soundic MPT-03 system, the one picture :- > ) # But that one, i can confirm that it does exist since i own one. # Brought it on Ebay some few months ago (last october) with # six games (included Devilman). You can find so much goodies # on Ebay Australia, but now, be ready to spend big bucks since # they are more and more video game collectors. Onward with the reading! (On-Ward...LOL!! Sorry for the pun!) --- Sly DC --- 127 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:04pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong commie_fan I doubt that anyone has tracked that specifically, at this point? My own impression is that you're correct, but we should verify that. That sounds like a good thing to do for later, but I'm too busy with the guide -- technically, since I didn't accomplish much on it today yet, but spent all day doing other stuff -- to take the info I have already, and organize it and put it up on these boards somewhere. If it makes you feel any better, Bill, I did already take all of the seperate hardware observations I had notices, and that people had sent me, and put them into one really big word processing file. But it is a "cluster-f**k" of a text right now, and will likely continue to be until I get my collector's guide deadline met. (And then spend some time trying to earn $$ to live on, since I've neglected that!) -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > This is probably best suited to a > collective effort - I dont know how > accurate this is, becuase I only have > MPT-03 Carts...But am I correct > in saying that "Copyright UA Ltd" > messages dont appear in MPT-03 > carts, just Arcadia-family ones? > I remember Ward mentioned that "UA > Ltd" appeared on the PCB of his > Arcadia, but no such message appears > on the MPT-03's Ive looked at. This > isnt to say that I'm right about > this - just on the examples of carts > and consoles Ive seen, which are > all MPT-03's, no mention of "UA Ltd" > is made. Can anyone confirm or > prove it wrong? > > Bill 128 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:08pm Subject: Re: ok... commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: (snip) > Onward with the reading! > (On-Ward...LOL!! Sorry for the pun!) > --- Sly DC --- Why be sorry... it was funny! (Which only means we both need sleep.) But seriously, if we're not having some fun doing all this, we will just all burn out, rather quickly. Fun is good. And necessary! -- Ward Shrake -- 129 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:15pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists slydc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi there, > this list is a great help. Thanks Sly. # Thanks very much Stefan! :) Glad i can help out. > I have some questions though: > 1) the Bandai list is marked as "complete". Does anybody know why > there are games with a number of 50 and above? I also remember a > screenshot that showed quite a number of carts, although I didn't > actually count them # That...i don't know why. I only know that a japanese web site # refered that he had every game for the Bandai Arcadia. But if # check out the ones who are between No.50 and 53, they are # excluvise titles only released in Japan. Think that Bandai # did numbered these titles 50 and up on purpose. > 2) The Tele-Fever list is also complete. There were only four games > available # Only four ? Damn... it "sox". I have many pictures of the game # systems and the 4 carts, but never knew that they only released # four carts. Now this game system is very easy to collect! :) > 3) The Palladium list: > - Angriff der Ufos is Missle War in Arcadia-terms (iAt) > - Intelligenz?bung is Brain Quiz iAt > - Video-M?hle is Capture iAt > - Raumfahrt and Weltraum-Abenteuer are both the same I guess: Space > Mission in Arcadia terms. Raumfahrt is afaik the title for the Mr. > Altus system. I guess Matt has this game, maybe he can confirm. I > concentrate on collecting the Palladium and its games > - Video-Panzerspiel is unique to this system as far as I know and > must not be seen as the MPT-03 game Combat on the Palladium # Since i don't have screenshots of those games, i couln't tell. # Just tried to translate the best i could and tried to find out # which game they where. > 4) Nevertheless I noticed that the Leisure-Vision library is not > represented. Although this library is largely identical to the > Arcadia-library, it is still interesting to see that the highest > number there is 37, leaving me with little ideas of which games they > released if they didn't release for example almost identical games > like Escape and Robot Killer. I concentrate mostly on collecting LV > games, but I don't have all of them and no catalogue (which would be > very helpful). # Humm....you're right. I have leaved-out the Leisure-Vision part. # I'll check if i do have an LV list somewhere. # Thanks for the inputs! :) --- Sly DC --- 130 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:17pm Subject: Re: Multiple Subjects slydc I don't know why i'm replying but just in case. Mine's "slydc". Think that everyone here knew it...hehehe... --- Sly DC --- 131 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:43pm Subject: Re: UVI Compugame slydc Hi Michael! Great to see you here! :) I only have a word for your new Arcadia 2001 clone page: "WOW!!" Finally know how the Uvi Compu-Game and the Grandstand looks like! And i quite agree with you that the Grandstand carts are ugly, but not as much uglier than the Polybrain ones. --- Sly DC --- 132 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 3:50pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /glossary.txt Uploaded by : commie_fan Description : A glossary of new game research terms that are necessary here. You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/glossary.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, commie_fan 133 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:01pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > wrote: (snip) > > 2) The Tele-Fever list is also > > complete. There were only four games > > available > > # Only four ? Damn... it "sox". I have many pictures of the game > # systems and the 4 carts, but never knew that they only released > # four carts. Now this game system is very easy to collect! :) (snip) Maybe not. I keep getting conflicting information in from others, which implies that there may have been two seperate companies that made (basically identical) carts for this seemingly simple console. In two different geographic areas. That still needs to be resolved. I am hearing that it was released either in Germany or Sweden, or possibly both places, by Tchibo or Eduscho, or possibly both. Like anything else with the "Arcadia 2001 console group" nothing is ever as simple as it looks, at first glance! :-) (snip) > # Humm....you're right. I have leaved-out > the Leisure-Vision part. I'll check if i do > have an LV list somewhere. (snip) Don't bother... it is already in the most recent listing. I did it on Monday (yesterday). I also added the Emerson carts from the United States, which were also not there originally. And did lots more... I took every single cart list I had, or even a fragment of one, and put it into that one big master cart list. That's everything I have now. Cart list URL: http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm Other people said it already, but thanks again for all the work on that first big list, Sly! Much appreciated. -- Ward Shrake -- 134 From: "kiwigame" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:02pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > wrote: > > > Hi there, > > this list is a great help. Thanks Sly. As Promised here is the list of all Grandstand Database Cartridges I know exist (ie. I personally own them) Alien Invader Baseball Breakaway Capture-Othello Cat Track Combat Crazy Climber Escape Math-Logic Missile War Sea Battle Soccer Space Mission Space Raiders 2 or 3 of these are not in the existing list. There is nothing on the Cartridges or boxes to indicate Grandstand used any sort of numbering system etc and no sales brochures etc. have come to light. Cheers Mike 135 From: "slydc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:04pm Subject: Re: ok... slydc > Why be sorry... it was funny! (Which only means we both need sleep.) > > But seriously, if we're not having some fun doing all this, we will > just all burn out, rather quickly. Fun is good. And necessary! A little humor here and then is making me (or all of us) sane with all the informations that going around here. Burn Out ? At the rate your going, you'll be the first one...Good God! Get some sleep Ward! Just took me about two hours just to read (and replied to some) all the messages that were posted. Now i'm hitting the sack before some boys with a big white jacket with strapes will come for me. LOL!!! RRrrrZZZzzzz....(do the same Ward!) :) --- Sly DC --- 136 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:14pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists commie_fan Heehee... it figures that as soon as I said that I had put every single bit of info that I had, into the big master cart list, that it would be out-dated one minute later. Gotta love that! (I'll put the latest info into it, in just a matter of minutes, and re-upload it.) Mike: if I remember correctly, don't some of those carts have "Orbit" etched into them, on the inside? (Showing their heritage, much like the picture on Pinwhiz' web site, of the UV1 console by Orbit.) If you drink too much caffeine, feel free to pop those carts open and read me off anything written on the ROM chips. That will help later, in trying to figure out which cart families came before the others. One last thing; you said the "UV1" was part of the "Grandstand family" in a previous post. No offense, but for our purposes here, to try to keep confusion to a managable minimum, we only have four types of "families" right now... "Emerson" or "MPT-03" or "Palladium" or "Ormatu". As I recall, the Grandstand was MPT-03 slot-compatible, right? If my memory is correct, that would make the UV1 an MPT-03 family member. I am trying to standardize how we talk about all this, so that once the public gets involved, that we'll have some clue what they are all talking about, and vice-versa. These four families are categorized by their cartridge slots, instead of console maker's names, since that info will tell you if you can plug a cart in and use it or not. See the glossary I just posted tonight, for more details, folks! -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > > wrote: > > > > > Hi there, > > > this list is a great help. Thanks Sly. > > As Promised here is the list of all > Grandstand Database Cartridges I know exist > (ie. I personally own them) > > Alien Invader > Baseball > Breakaway > Capture-Othello > Cat Track > Combat > Crazy Climber > Escape > Math-Logic > Missile War > Sea Battle > Soccer > Space Mission > Space Raiders > > 2 or 3 of these are not in the existing list. > > There is nothing on the Cartridges or boxes to indicate Grandstand > used any sort of numbering system etc and no sales brochures etc. > have come to light. > > Cheers > > Mike 137 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 4:23pm Subject: Re: ok... commie_fan Sleep? SLEEP?!?! You gotta be kidding me, Sly... it is still dark outside! What the heck would I be thinking about sleep for? Heehee... Sorry, I couldn't resist that. I am actually yawning now, after yesterday's caffeine-fueled all-nighter. ;-) Seriously, though, this pace will not keep up forever. It can't... I have other things to do, that won't wait forever. So I expect this fast pace to stay this way for a few weeks, then I'll taper off into a more "normal" -- whatever that means, for me -- pace / lifestyle. I'll catch up on sleep either (a) when my sections of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" are finished, or (b) when I'm dead. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > > Why be sorry... it was funny! (Which only means we both need sleep.) > > > > But seriously, if we're not having some fun doing all this, we will > > just all burn out, rather quickly. Fun is good. And necessary! > > A little humor here and then is making me (or all of us) sane with > all the informations that going around here. Burn Out ? At the rate > your going, you'll be the first one...Good God! Get some sleep Ward! > > Just took me about two hours just to read (and replied to some) all > the messages that were posted. Now i'm hitting the sack before some > boys with a big white jacket with strapes will come for me. LOL!!! > > RRrrrZZZzzzz....(do the same Ward!) :) > > --- Sly DC --- 138 From: "kiwigame" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:10pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Mike: if I remember correctly, don't some of those carts >have "Orbit" The one you have the photo for with the Orbit mask is "Alien Invader" (Signetics) On this one the monkeys were quite good! I need to open more of these for you. > try to keep confusion to a managable minimum, we only have four types of "families" right now... "Emerson" or "MPT-03" or "Palladium" > or "Ormatu". >These four families are categorized by > their cartridge slots, instead of console maker's names, since that > info will tell you if you can plug a cart in and use it or not. er I'm confused: The Big list still has 5 familys. With Grandstand Database as a unique one.. I dunno if the pinouts the same as the MPT-03 but the carts aren't - they don't fit will into each others slots. Like those damn N64 plastic bits :) (MPT-03 systems also have 2 long prongs inside slot & holes in Catrs that match) I have just tried Rowtron into Grandstand & Vise Versa - not a chance of getting Rowtron into Grandstand (cart bigger than slot) With Granstand into Rowtron it might work if you forced it or popped the board from then case... So its ROM Compatible but not Slot Compatible as per your glossary? Cheers! Mike 139 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:15pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia : Devilman the Dot-Muncher commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > No need to wait to know, Devilman > - The Dot Muncher AKA Nibblemen is > indeed Super Gobbler, but with some > very few (or none) alterations to > the characters. Both game have the > same maze, but i've tried to > compare them with the screenshots > in the manuals, and can't make out > very well in the screenshots of the > manual of Super Gobbler. If > someone has a big sreenshot of > Super Gobbbler, let me know. > > --- Sly DC --- At the risk of sounding rude or ungrateful, that will not satisfy my hunger for information. You're assuming too much, Sly. Slow down, bud... there is a whole group of us now, to pool our resources. I think you are much too used to having to do everything yourself!? Personally, if there is any visual evidence of alterations, at all, I want to have the cart in my hands, to dump its contents. (And I think that Bill or Stefan or both were talking about loaning me Devilman?) Only by checking each "new cart" byte-for-byte with a known library of carts, are we going to know, 100% for certain if it is EXACTLY the same as a known cart, or if it is a "new" cart we didn't know about. I thought the same basic thing you did, Sly, about "Nibblemen" and Super Gobbler, when I looked at their screenshots. And I was wrong. "Retro Rene" Kamerbeek loaned me "Nibblemen" along with (definitely new) "Parashooter" and "Boxing". And once I dumped Nibblemen, it came up with roughly a 50% difference internally, in its programming code, when I checked it using a special program that I wrote to do that. I wouldn't know that, without checking it well. We wouldn't know it. Same goes with many other carts. "Robot Killer" looks like "Escape" but they are NOT the same internally, as I said in my DPCG #6 text. "3D Soccer" is very similar to "Fussball" -- spelling, I know -- but not identical to it. There are a few hundred bytes of difference. People once told me that "Astro Invader" was just a name variation for "Alien Invaders". The two programs could not be more different. People told me that "Doraemon" was probably just "Cat Trax". No, it is not. It is a system exclusive game that was made by Bandai, based upon an anime cartoon character that is popular over in Japan. I have seen it running. It is completely unlike any other Arcadia game. There are a number of totally different auto racing games, and tank games, that people once told me were probably all the same. Not true. I could probably list a dozen others, but you get the idea by now? No offense, Sly, but you made a lot of mistakes like that in your cart listing. But that's OK... please understand that I am not trying to criticize you in any way! I am very glad you made the list. We can all look it over, and as a group make it be kick-ass excellent. It is already well on its way, in just a matter of days. That's great news. Remember that I am also looking for hidden messages inside these games. We can learn a lot from such things. We already know that there were ports from Interton consoles to the Arcadia, so it only makes sense to actually check these things scientifically, so long as we have the technical capability of doing such things. (And I do.) Think about just a hundred "empty" bytes of code space, and what cool stuff we could -- and have -- found in such tiny, hidden niches? In a space of five hundred bytes, you could have more hidden info than we might otherwise be able to find, in three years of searching for it? And of course, there is the growing ROM image collection, and the Arcadia multi-cart that I made... both are very good excuses to "dump when in doubt". I know that I do things different than most of the so-called game researchers on the Internet. I think I do things much better! We all do things that others would not do, individually. As a group, we are most likely going to put all the other game researchers to shame!? Guys like Leonard Herman go to press with major books on gaming history, that are full of errors. (The infamous "28k of RAM lie" being one of the most glaring ones he said about the Arcadia.) I don't want to do that. I'm willing to take my time, and do it right. -- Ward Shrake -- 140 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:39pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" > wrote: > > Mike: if I remember correctly, don't some of those carts > >have "Orbit" > > The one you have the photo for > with the Orbit mask is "Alien Invader" OK, thanks. (I thought I had that one confused with the "Crazy Climber" cart, and that confirms it.) I corrected my picture page's notations on it, so as to avoid any future confusion. > (Signetics) > On this one the monkeys were quite good! > I need to open more of these for you. Coolness; thanks much! > > try to keep confusion to a managable minimum, we only have four > types of "families" right now... "Emerson" or "MPT-03" or "Palladium" > > or "Ormatu". > >These four families are categorized by > > their cartridge slots, instead of console maker's names, since that > > info will tell you if you can plug a cart in and use it or not. > > er I'm confused: Join the crowd, bud. I think we all are. :-) > The Big list still has 5 familys. > With Grandstand Database as a unique one.. > I dunno if the pinouts the same as the MPT-03 but the carts aren't > - they don't fit will into each others slots. Like those damn N64 > plastic bits :) > > (MPT-03 systems also have 2 long prongs inside slot & holes in Catrs > that match) > > I have just tried Rowtron into Grandstand & Vise Versa - not > a chance of getting Rowtron into Grandstand (cart bigger than slot) > With Granstand into Rowtron it might work if you forced it or popped > the board from then case... OK, you definitely have a good point there. I didn't see that one coming, because I'm thinking more in terms of ROM images than carts. You may think that this answer is just an attempt on my part to side- step the problem (and you would be right!) but here is my take on that... (I am very open to debate and criticism on this, however.) In most cases, to get one family to cooperate with another, you have to insert some sort of a physical adapter between the console and the cartridge. Nobody really has these, that I have seen commercially, so we are talking about just theory, at this point. That being the case, I can "cheat" a bit and say that any good cart slot adapter should also raise the cart up enough, and include other features as needed, to make it work with whatever console / cart combo you're adapting. The problem with that, of course, is that technically if I call the MPT-03 and the Grandstand the same family, that the pinouts are not a problem, and ROM-compatibility is not a problem, but something else is. How do we attempt to describe that problem, in a word or two? ("Housing compatibility" seems like a lame name. Any better ideas?) And as long as I'm finding fault with my own work, I probably should be thinking of some better way to list the Tele-Fever carts, since that console has a plastic nub or pin in the way on purpose, trying to keep other Emerson-family carts from fitting into its cart slot. > So its ROM Compatible but not Slot Compatible > as per your glossary? Well, at least in the "edited for publication" glossary. You don't want to know what I'm calling this whole mess, privately speaking! Seriously... I don't know. I'm open to discussion on this matter. I think the two existing terms do their jobs well, but perhaps we also need another term to go with them? And to think... all of this, to describe problems that no one else out there has to deal with? (The Atari 2600 may be the "Dark Side of the Force" in some people's minds, but it keeps sounding better and better to me!) -- Ward Shrake -- 141 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:46pm Subject: Re: ok... billlagr Ok....I'll cave in here, the suspense is too much...has anyone seen my errrmmm.....hard researched proof pic of the monkeys? What strikes me about he pic the most is that if you look in the monkeys hand, the soldering iron is _exactly_ identical to mine, and both consoles are..wait for it..identical to mine!! What are the chances????? --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > > Why be sorry... it was funny! (Which only means we both need sleep.) > > > > But seriously, if we're not having some fun doing all this, we will > > just all burn out, rather quickly. Fun is good. And necessary! > > A little humor here and then is making me (or all of us) sane with > all the informations that going around here. Burn Out ? At the rate > your going, you'll be the first one...Good God! Get some sleep Ward! > > Just took me about two hours just to read (and replied to some) all > the messages that were posted. Now i'm hitting the sack before some > boys with a big white jacket with strapes will come for me. LOL!!! > > RRrrrZZZzzzz....(do the same Ward!) :) > > --- Sly DC --- 142 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:46pm Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books dieterk_ccc > http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt Wow wow wow!!! Tons of interesting stuff there. Especially where the guy says he owns all of the Interton games from 1 - 38, except for #34. That's VERY interesting, because #35 too was thought to be unreleased!!! I already contacted him by email and will let you guys know. > Btw see: > http://216.239.35.100/search?q=cache:- > ob_zlqzJpMC:www.besteauktion.de/page.php3%3Fcat_id%3D771%26p% > 3D0+Frech-Verlag+TV-Computerspiele&hl=en > > Anyone have this book? Also very interesting! It seems the book didn't get any bids. But the auction is already over and I can't access finished auctions on this site ... bah! But I already registered there and will try to find the guy who sold the book. I will let you know if I have news ... Great job, Michael!!! Cheers, Dieter 143 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:49pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" (massive snippage) > > So its ROM Compatible but not Slot > > Compatible as per your glossary? > > > Well, at least in the "edited for > publication" glossary. You don't > want to know what I'm calling this > whole mess, privately speaking! Ooh, ooh, I just thought of something new to add to my glossary... Question: What do all the terms "ROM-compatible" and "slot- compatible" and "housing compatible" and all the rest add up to? Answer: "A very good excuse to buy one of Ward's Arcadia multi-carts!" -- Ward Shrake -- 144 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 5:52pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong billlagr Hi Ward.. I know that I emailed you the same thing, so please dont take it as meaning that I think youre not paying attention or whatever, quite the opposite :) After I sent it to you, I thought that perhaps it might be better as a "combined" effort, in that between us all we have a fair size collection of carts and consoles, and also that it might take some pressure off you so you can get your other work done, ie the guide and that thing, whats it called, you know where you go to that big long flat soft thing, lie down, and close your eyes? I'm very shortly going to get busy opening carts so I can send you a mode detailed list of everything I have. That was the plan for today...leave work early, do some Uni assignemnt thats due Friday, a little cart opening...unfortunately the dog scaled a 6ft fence and had a little altercation with a car, so there went my day :/ --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > I doubt that anyone has tracked that specifically, at this point? My > own impression is that you're correct, but we should verify that. > > That sounds like a good thing to do for later, but I'm too busy with > the guide -- technically, since I didn't accomplish much on it today > yet, but spent all day doing other stuff -- to take the info I have > already, and organize it and put it up on these boards somewhere. > > If it makes you feel any better, Bill, I did already take all of the > seperate hardware observations I had notices, and that people had > sent me, and put them into one really big word processing file. But > it is a "cluster-f**k" of a text right now, and will likely continue > to be until I get my collector's guide deadline met. (And then spend > some time trying to earn $$ to live on, since I've neglected that!) > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > This is probably best suited to a > > collective effort - I dont know how > > accurate this is, becuase I only have > > MPT-03 Carts...But am I correct > > in saying that "Copyright UA Ltd" > > messages dont appear in MPT-03 > > carts, just Arcadia-family ones? > > I remember Ward mentioned that "UA > > Ltd" appeared on the PCB of his > > Arcadia, but no such message appears > > on the MPT-03's Ive looked at. This > > isnt to say that I'm right about > > this - just on the examples of carts > > and consoles Ive seen, which are > > all MPT-03's, no mention of "UA Ltd" > > is made. Can anyone confirm or > > prove it wrong? > > > > Bill 145 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:04pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > Hi Ward.. > I know that I emailed you the same thing, > so please dont take it as meaning that > I think youre not paying attention or > whatever, quite the opposite :) No worries. In fact, anyone else that wants to upload stuff they sent me before, should probably do so. I only ask that you guys try to use good message thread names, to make going backwards through all of these postings easier, if we have to sort this out over many weeks. > After I sent it to you, I thought > that perhaps it might be better as > a "combined" effort, in that between > us all we have a fair size collection > of carts and consoles, and also that > it might take some pressure off you > so you can get your other work done, > ie the guide Fair enough. I always intended this group to be a "round table" of experts anyway, so you guys feel free to push me into overload. :-) > and that thing, whats it called, you > know where you go to that big long > flat soft thing, lie down, and close > your eyes? Hmmm... sounds a lot like the "funny farm". Oh, wait, maybe that wasn't what you meant? :-) > I'm very shortly going to get busy > opening carts so I can send you a > mode detailed list of everything I have. Sounds good. Don't forget the "files area" if you want to do a text list. Otherwise, just start up a well-named message thread for it. > That was the plan for today... > leave work early, do some Uni > assignemnt thats due Friday, a > little cart opening...unfortunately > the dog scaled a 6ft fence and had > a little altercation with a car, so > there went my day :/ And the dog's day too, it sounds like? Ouch. Maybe you can teach him/her to play video games while he/she is recuperating? :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 146 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:04pm Subject: bidding on eBay.au billlagr is anyone here bidding on an Interon VC4000 w/ 15 carts on eBay Australia? If not, then I think I might.. Bill 147 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 6:56pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Interton ports : Interton did not go bankrupt... stefanpiasecki > that at some point around the birth of the Arcadia, Interton as a > company apparently went bankrupt. That might explain the transition, They still do what they always did as their main-business: small devices to help people listen better (I want all game-designers to wear this by the way). Here is the link. http://www.interton.de/ Also, the old boss is still in office: Dr. T?rk. I plan to make an interview with them at some point when I have more time. Stefan 148 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:09pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong stefanpiasecki > And then, to think carefully about how things seem to inter-relate. > In the Sherlock Holmes novels, the detective habitually spent hours > and hours gathering raw evidence, THEN spending additional hours in > quiet contemplation of what it all meant. We must all do the same. > > I am going to be bogged down for awhile, writing the guide itself, so > you may as well spend the next couple of weeks getting to REALLY know > all the information that is already here, before we move forward. Dear Ward, you are mostly right in what you say, that this is unstable ground etc. and that we have no certain info. What I was trying to do is to take things scientifically (very much like your are doing this btw). Take the elements we have (name, location, copyright messages, place of production, several Andrew Chois in Hong Kong (Choi is the last name) etc.) and try to create a theory that then would later have to be proven (or not). I no way did I want to sound like that this is a fact. I just thought that I should share this white pages link from Hong Kong with others. Maybe somebody has a friend who can speak Chinese and would be able to find the right words to call up these persons and find out if they were involved with these games or not (without pi**ing them off). If we would be able to find either Andrew Choi or his son Jonathan, we might be able to get very valuable information. And at the moment I don't know of an easier way than to have a look in the white pages... The same goes for the Interton. We will find very valuable info in some data books for sure, but the reason why I want to make an interview with Dr. T?rk is that he might be able to tell us about persons involved or how the distribution worked etc. He might even recall what it meant to him or other players in this field that so many clones were around... He might know of competitors of his (Hanimex? Schmid?) and what happened to them. I will try to get hold of him today. Stefan 149 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:12pm Subject: Re: Arcadia cartridge : Boss stage in SpaceVultures? stefanpiasecki > "Grand Slam Tennis" also has things I want to check against the > published game's actual screens, to see what I can learn. The early > catalog had no screenshot at all; the later one is questionable. > > And the "Space Attack" game screen shown in the 5/82 catalog is FAR > too intricately colored for me to easily believe it is genuine. I > will have to look into that more closely, as I find the time to. > > -- Ward Shrake -- Interesting, so we know that at least the Arcadia and the TVG had two catalogues while the others don't seem to have any. I will make a list tonight of which games appear in each of the TVG catalogues and I will have a look which of the Arcadia catalogues I own. I guess it is 7/82 and it hasn't many games in there. Stefan 150 From: "kiwigame" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:27pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong kiwigame > many clones were around... He might know of competitors of his > (Hanimex? Schmid?) and what happened to them. > I will try to get hold of him today. Stefan, Hanimex are still very much alive. http://www.hanimex.com.au/standard/about/loc/ Photographic equipment and supplies has always been Hanimex's main line of business but they also imported lots of other cheap electronics and seem to have had good contacts in the far east. 70s Hanimex radios/cameras/tape decks are really crappy :) Schmid - is this the same one? http://www.schmid-telecom.com/Corporate/Profile.asp Cheers Mike 151 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:40pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Interton ports : Interton may have gone bankrupt commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > > that at some point around the birth of the Arcadia, Interton as a > > company apparently went bankrupt. That might explain the > transition, > > They still do what they always did as their main-business: small > devices to help people listen better (I want all game-designers to > wear this by the way). Here is the link. > http://www.interton.de/ > Also, the old boss is still in office: Dr. T?rk. I plan to make an > interview with them at some point when I have more time. > Stefan This would be a good time for me to refer readers to message #12 and message #14, both of which quote sources as saying Interton did in fact go bankrupt during the 1980's. I freely admit that this is more in Dieter's area of expertise than my own. I will simply note for the record that as I understand corporate bankruptcy proceedings, you can go through a bankruptcy restructuring process, have problems, and still survive as a company. Therefore, I do not rule out a possible bankruptcy during the 1980's. -- Ward Shrake -- 152 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:43pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists stefanpiasecki Hi, Tchibo and Eduscho are coffee-selling companies much like Starbucks in the US. They merged in the 90s. I guess it was Tchibo who sold the TF and games. I remember the games in their shops and I even recall large posters (that just looked like the TF box). If there were more than just these 4 games, than this would be completely new to me. I am not sure if Tchibo and Eduscho ever had any shops in Scandinavia. But these companies for sure didn't produce anything by themselves. The only bought complete stocks, some even just produced and branded for them. So if these consoles were sold in Scvandinavia, the probably somebody else. The more interesing question is who offered these systems to them? Maybe Schmid as the most active player in the German field? They would also have had a vital interest that the TF-carts say that these games were compatible with the TVG2000. On the other hand, the producer of these carts also needed this message as he needed to show that customers wouldn't buy a dead-end. I remember that people always discussed the amount of games available for a console in these days. Stefan 153 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:48pm Subject: Printed catalogs commie_fan When I find the time to do so, I plan to scan in the two catalogs that I have, which are both from Emerson. (5/82 and 7/82.) But for online comparison purposes, I plan to purposely put one on top of the other, with just enough overlap that the two catalog's screenshots are visible on top of each other. This would allow for a more easy and accurate visual comparison between the two catalogs. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > > "Grand Slam Tennis" also has things I want to check against the > > published game's actual screens, to see what I can learn. The early > > catalog had no screenshot at all; the later one is questionable. > > > > And the "Space Attack" game screen shown in the 5/82 catalog is FAR > > too intricately colored for me to easily believe it is genuine. I > > will have to look into that more closely, as I find the time to. > > > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > Interesting, so we know that at least the Arcadia and the TVG had two > catalogues while the others don't seem to have any. I will make a > list tonight of which games appear in each of the TVG catalogues and > I will have a look which of the Arcadia catalogues I own. I guess it > is 7/82 and it hasn't many games in there. > Stefan 154 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:53pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong stefanpiasecki > Schmid - is this the same one? > http://www.schmid-telecom.com/Corporate/Profile.asp I don't think so. The Schmid of the 80s was more or less a lecinsing company, doing very much the same than Emerson. Stefan 155 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:56pm Subject: Tele-Fever carts and consoles commie_fan Thanks for the info, Stefan. On the Tele-fever's internals, and who actually made the console... I opened mine up, and right there on the main circuit board is the "UAL" logo we're so used to seeing on other Emerson-family boards. Even the (seperate) little joystick circuit boards said "UAL". And just to clarify something else... I do not own an actual Emerson- branded Arcadia 2001 console. I own a Leisure-Vision. And my LV says the same thing inside: that "UA Limited" apparently made the hardware. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi, > Tchibo and Eduscho are coffee-selling companies much like Starbucks > in the US. They merged in the 90s. > I guess it was Tchibo who sold the TF and games. I remember the games > in their shops and I even recall large posters (that just looked like > the TF box). If there were more than just these 4 games, than this > would be completely new to me. > I am not sure if Tchibo and Eduscho ever had any shops in > Scandinavia. But these companies for sure didn't produce anything by > themselves. The only bought complete stocks, some even just produced > and branded for them. So if these consoles were sold in Scvandinavia, > the probably somebody else. > The more interesing question is who offered these systems to them? > Maybe Schmid as the most active player in the German field? They > would also have had a vital interest that the TF-carts say that these > games were compatible with the TVG2000. On the other hand, the > producer of these carts also needed this message as he needed to show > that customers wouldn't buy a dead-end. I remember that people always > discussed the amount of games available for a console in these days. > Stefan 156 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 7:57pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Interton ports : Interton may have gone bankrupt dieterk_ccc I heard from different sources (one of them a former programmer for the Interton VC-4000) that Interton went bankrupt in the early 80s. It might be possible that only the videogames or electronics part went bankrupt as they still sell their hearing aids. I already tried twice to get information or an interview with Mr. Tuerk, but did unfortunately not succeed. Maybe Stefan succeeds, maybe he know the "tricks" how to get to Mr. Tuerk :) Cheers, Dieter --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > wrote: > > > that at some point around the birth of the Arcadia, Interton as a > > > company apparently went bankrupt. That might explain the > > transition, > > > > They still do what they always did as their main-business: small > > devices to help people listen better (I want all game-designers to > > wear this by the way). Here is the link. > > http://www.interton.de/ > > Also, the old boss is still in office: Dr. T?rk. I plan to make > an > > interview with them at some point when I have more time. > > Stefan > > > This would be a good time for me to refer readers to message #12 and > message #14, both of which quote sources as saying Interton did in > fact go bankrupt during the 1980's. > > I freely admit that this is more in Dieter's area of expertise than > my own. I will simply note for the record that as I understand > corporate bankruptcy proceedings, you can go through a bankruptcy > restructuring process, have problems, and still survive as a company. > Therefore, I do not rule out a possible bankruptcy during the 1980's. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 157 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:05pm Subject: Re: Tele-Fever carts and consoles stefanpiasecki My Tele-Fever and LV-console say the same than yours. I'll open up my Schmid console, but I guess it will also say just that. Stefan 158 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:05pm Subject: Re: bidding on eBay.au dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > is anyone here bidding on an Interon VC4000 w/ 15 carts on eBay > Australia? > If not, then I think I might.. > > Bill Not me :) Cheers, Dieter 159 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:06pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > > Schmid - is this the same one? > > http://www.schmid-telecom.com/Corporate/Profile.asp > > I don't think so. The Schmid of the > 80s was more or less a lecinsing > company, doing very much the same > than Emerson. > Stefan I apologize for the brain-fade involved here, but someone recently said something either here or in one of the zillion e-mails and web sites I have visited recently, that may bear mentioning again. It is important to note that a good part of the apparent "UA Limited" marketing strategy was to license their hardware to companies that already were in the "let's make cheap consumer electronics products" market. As a number of you have pointed out, inside many of these consoles it looks like chimpanzees were doing the actual soldering! (Although there are a few confusing things contradicting that, at least outside the Emerson family itself. We'll sort that out later!) Unless I'm forgetting something -- shame on me if I am -- then so far it looks like "UA Limited" went to Tchibo / Eduscho, Emerson, Hanimex, Schmid and all of the other companies that made the consoles we now think of as the "Emerson family" because they were involved in that sort of a business, to begin with. It would not be much more than a quick side-step for a business like that, to make a new item? Especially if "UA" wrote the software... it would sound so sensible? Companies like this would need almost no start-up money, etc, etc. They already made cheap consumer goods. In some cases, they may have had access to all sorts of "useless" plastic cart cases, and so on. -- Ward Shrake -- 160 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:09pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong stefanpiasecki > Companies like this would need almost no start-up money, etc, etc. > They already made cheap consumer goods. In some cases, they may have > had access to all sorts of "useless" plastic cart cases, and so on. Ward, this is EXACTLY how the games-licensing business works. Exactly the same. There is the group of large companies like Eidos, EA and the likes and then in every country you have those who found a niche- market for themselves, selling medicre products that most often come from the same international licensing-agencies. Stefan 161 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:11pm Subject: Re: Tele-Fever carts and consoles commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > My Tele-Fever and LV-console say > the same than yours. I'll open up my > Schmid console, but I guess it will > also say just that. > Stefan Or maybe not... you never know. Palladium carts say "PolyBrain" on the inside (as you know), and Pinwhiz' Grandstand console says "Orbit" on its carts, and under its main console name label. Any assumption is a dangerous assumption, when dealing with this mess of a worldwide infestation of ancient gaming consoles. -- Ward Shrake -- 162 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:14pm Subject: Made a contact with Interton... stefanpiasecki ... first with a girl that was very nice but Mr. Tuerk jr. wasn't available. Then I tried again 30 mins. later (got his personal extension) and had some 5 mins. of a talk with him. Again, very nice, very friendly, promised me to make a personal contact with his father who he claimed knows everything about the why's, the who's and the whereabout's of the early days (don't forget, they entered the market in 1976 with a Pong clone and bailed out in 1984 when the C64 took over). I indeed used a trick, Dieter. However, I would like to do this research together with you. As you know, I am much more involved into the TVG-sort of things and I could need a little help in compiling the list of questions we have. Cheers Stefan 163 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:16pm Subject: Re: Made a contact with Interton... billlagr Stefan and Dieter - well done! --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > ... first with a girl that was very nice but Mr. Tuerk jr. wasn't > available. Then I tried again 30 mins. later (got his personal > extension) and had some 5 mins. of a talk with him. Again, very nice, > very friendly, promised me to make a personal contact with his father > who he claimed knows everything about the why's, the who's and the > whereabout's of the early days (don't forget, they entered the market > in 1976 with a Pong clone and bailed out in 1984 when the C64 took > over). > I indeed used a trick, Dieter. However, I would like to do this > research together with you. As you know, I am much more involved into > the TVG-sort of things and I could need a little help in compiling > the list of questions we have. > Cheers > Stefan 164 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 8:31pm Subject: Re: Signetics & copyright messages & UA Ltd. / Hong Kong billlagr Their 90's-00's cameras arent much better :) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: > Photographic equipment and supplies has always been Hanimex's main > line of business but they also imported lots of other cheap > electronics and seem to have had good contacts in the far east. > 70s Hanimex radios/cameras/tape decks are really crappy :) > > Schmid - is this the same one? > http://www.schmid-telecom.com/Corporate/Profile.asp > > Cheers > > Mike 165 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:08pm Subject: Playing detective commie_fan Guys, here is my attempt to summarize some of my earlier points, from the last few days. Hopefully this makes some sense? (It's 4 AM now.) It may sound like I am being very critical of much of what you guys are saying. I have probably offended a few people, or come very close to doing it. Again, my apologies. I assure you all my intent is good. I even made one passing reference to the game book "Phoenix" ... and made it clear that in some very specific ways, I thought it was not as good as it could have been, and should have been, research-wise. One of the things that is fueling my current after-burners-on-full drive to coordinate this project, and to sum up the group's findings in the upcoming "Digital Press Collectors Guide" is the idea that I truly believe when it comes out, we are going to stun retro-gaming. The people outside this group still think that Emerson was "running the show," as it were? And here we are, about to drop the bomb on them (without warning) that there are ties to Phillips hidden here! All sorts of stunning things are going to quietly make us look good, once this info leaves our hands and goes out into the real world. I don't want to make any big mistakes, that cast doubt on the really cool things that we know (or suspect) happened a certain way. You have to realize that I have had very specific training for doing large-scale research projects like this. The U.S. military trained me to do lots of things that the average person on the street would not have any clue where to begin, let alone follow through to completion. Even with that training, I'm still impressed with what we've done? That does NOT mean I know what I am doing, and you guys do not. I am well aware that some of you have multiple college degrees in things like history. One of my reasons for making message posting #1 be what it was -- an invitation to share who each person was, with the group - - was so that we could all get a better idea of who can do what, as well as just having some friendly chit-chat type stuff involved. The specific "how to" information regarding any research project is probably less important, in the overall scheme of things, than just simple patience and discipline. Those things can both take you far! If there is any single point I'm trying to make when I tell people to "slow down" or whatever, that is it... to trust that you will be able to figure something out, if you only take your time looking at the problem, and examining it well from every conceivable angle. What I initially learned in the military, I honed over the years, out here in "real life". It boils down to this... you should CAREFULLY do your data gathering first, being as objective as possible. Get as much info into one place as you can. Work hard to make no conclusions or assumptions about it whatsoever, as you gather up the raw data. Only then should you try to take a look at the "big picture". The discipline part comes in when you are able to FORCE yourself to go against human nature, which tells you to hurry up and figure out what is going on, based only on the data you have available at that time. This works great if you are trying to avoid predatory animals, for instance, in a jungle situation. But this also works against you, every time, for major research projects... by mentally committing to one theory or another, too early in the process, you see fewer other possible roads. And if you can't see them, you won't explore them. A related point: Some of you are apparently assuming that because I questioned one small part of something you said (which had many individual points), that I am also questioning the larger whole, or the thinking process. That is NOT true! There is no hidden meaning lurking anywhere. Please understand that my own mind is trained well enough to see that one needle in a haystack, to notice it is rusty, and to focus on it exclusively if that is what I want to do. (Sometimes that is a great tool for me, and sometimes it just gets in my way.) If I do not question anything but one minor point, you can generally take that as an implied compliment. (Please do!) It implies that I found nothing wrong with the bulk of the argument / thinking process, or that whatever I did notice was not worth the effort to mention. As I said before; "this is not Usenet". I have had conversations in private e-mail, between myself and at least one other researcher, in which we were both sharing our personal and heart-felt, "Whoo-hoo! What a cool group of hardcore guys!" type of comments with each other. You guys are the best of the best, in my opinion. I do mean that. This may be cocky of me to say, but I think we're doing some things here that have simply never been done, in retro-gaming fan circles? But if is it conceited of me, it is conceit for all of us as a group! The more I'm dealing with each of you, and getting glimpses of your thinking processes from all of the messages going back and forth, the more I am becoming aware that we each have very specific specialties. I am pretty good at certain kinds of technical things, such as being able to dump carts, search ROM images for hidden messages, and so on. That obviously has some potential for a group such as this one? A lot of guys can dump carts, but very few have the patience or the raw motivation to painstakingly examine their archaeological finds. I am pleased that other guys on this group are willing to open carts up to read boring coded messages stamped on the outsides of 20-year old ROM chips, etc. Way too cool, from my own nerdy point-of-view. Some of you are really good at gathering raw information, and putting it into a written form, with quite a bit of speed. At times, some of you are perhaps a bit too speedy at it, but that's OK. Some of the more obsessively nit-picky among us can verify everything is correct. Working as a team, we can then simply amaze the rest of retro-gaming? We'll figure out, over time, which are our best proof-reader types. I am very pleasantly surprised to see Mike's ability in action, to find really neat, on-topic information on ultra-obscure subjects. I am jazzed by the huge potential there, seen already in only a day or two of having him "on-board". (We all seem quite pleased with it?!) And then there is the whole subject of interviewing people... you certainly don't have to ask me twice, if I think that is useful to try! ("Heck yes, it is!") I'll be thrilled to see any such info. Add to all this the idea that there were two groups, working apart for a long time, that have now combined their research efforts. Wow! To sum up... thanks for being "Arcadia Nerds" (as Olivier put it)! -- Ward "Hardcore nerd, and darned proud of it" Shrake -- 166 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Apr 10, 2002 9:24pm Subject: Re: Made a contact with Interton... dieterk_ccc > I indeed used a trick, Dieter. However, I would like to do this > research together with you. As you know, I am much more involved into > the TVG-sort of things and I could need a little help in compiling > the list of questions we have. > Cheers > Stefan That's great news, Stefan! Well, I never called them, I only sent emails. That's probably ONE reason why ... Anyway, I will help you as much as I can and I am sure we will get some great news from Mr. Tuerk! Cheers, Dieter 167 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:32am Subject: Hi Guys mrhaboobi Hi Guys, just wanted to introduce myself, im just reading all the posts to see whats going on. As far as my collection goes.. ive got a few questions for you on a machine i have not been able to find information for. its a Sheen 2001, uses the wide, short version of carts, i have nibbleman, crazy climber, auto race, and 2 or 3 other games that i dont have in front of my right now, but they seem to be just name variations of other games.. I also have an almost complete Tunix collection.. 2 carts away from what seems to be all known Tunix releases ( Though acording to my catalogs there was the possiblity of more games, but i dont think they made it ). anyways if anyone knows about the 2001 i have id love to know more about it, Greg 168 From: "slydc" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:39am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Some Arcadia : Devilman the Dot-Muncher slydc I'm not offended at all, the list have made was only information i gathered. Since i don't know much about hex editors, i was just trying to be as precise as i can be with only text or pictures of cartridges, and sometimes with screenshots. I don't say that XYZ game is XYZ and it's final. No, not at all. I'm still open for debates and corrections. In other words, prove me right or wrong would me more exact. Even in all the FAQs i wrote so far, there still the same message i put in every FAQ: "The data contained here in is provided for informational purposes only. No warranty is made with regards to the accuracy of some informations." I'm not specialized on one or two systems, i'm just a game system collector that enjoys collecting and gathering any informations on every game systems ever made. In all that, tehre's bound to have errors. Not many people have givin me informations, but with a group like this one, were all digging for the same thing, and the more we will have the exact and truly informations that surrounds the Arcadia 2001 and the Interton VC 4000. I gave all the data i had in one lump, so now it's up to all of us to know what is what, which games exist or not, clones, systems, etc... We all have a unique point of view and how to share informations. And now, it's going better than expected. So, let's continue our debates and sharing any bits of informations, because the truth is out there... :) --- Sly DC --- 169 From: "slydc" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:50am Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists slydc > Answer: "A very good excuse to buy one of Ward's Arcadia multi- carts!" It this some kind of a subliminal message ? hahahha!!!! Sorry, couldn't resist!! =) --- Sly DC --- 170 From: "slydc" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:47am Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books slydc Nice to know i'm not the only one making errors! LOL!!! Don't take me seriously. Were all trying to figure out what exist or not and it will take some time, and it's by trail and errors that we will know some day everything about the Interton VC 4000 and the Arcadia 2001. And at the rate it's going, we will know soon enough. =) --- Sly DC --- 171 From: "slydc" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 8:31am Subject: Re: Hi Guys slydc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mrhaboobi" wrote: Hi Greg, Welcome to the group! If you can, do a list of all the Tunix game with the model number. Post it here or send it to Ward. It will be a great add-on to the big list. I don't know much about the Sheen Home Video Centre 2001 since i just got one a month ago or so, but anyway, here's the ingo i have: The Sheen H.V.C. 2001 was released in Australia. On the box, upper- left, you see a flag of Australia and just under, the name SHEEN with the following phrase "Australia No.1 selling video games". Also on the box, you see some screenshots of games like Auto Race, Breakaway, Soccer, Math/Logic, Baseball, etc... Its displays on a PAL TV on channel 3 and takes a 9 Volts/750mA adapter with positive center. The carts are brown and has the same name/model numbers as the Ormatu 2001, and it looks like the Intervision 2001 and Ormatu 2001. The manual that comes with it is not informal at all, only the same descriptions as any other game systems, like "Turn off power before inserting game cartridges, etc..." No reference to the Company Sheen or the year it was released. So this is what i know so far, hope this will help you. Oh and here's another informations that i didn't include in the big list. There's another clone that exist, but since i don't know which company did or didn't released this clone, i didn't speculate on this one. On my Breakaway game that came with the Sheen 2001 on the bottom of the front box, it says: "For use with Home Video Centre 2001/Home Entertainment System M1800". In the V.G.C. FAQ, the M1800 is listed but by who ? Don't know...but if i'm assuming (just taking a guess here), i would say that it would be Conic would have released (or not) this M1800. but like i said, it's only a wild guess, i'm not assuming anything here. So until that someone will come foward with a proof, let's just put aside the M1800 for now until we know which company manufactured it. --- Sly DC --- Will definitely need some mental vacations when the next DP Guide will came out! :) 172 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:01am Subject: New "glossary" uploaded in files area commie_fan Hi guys. I just threw out the (one day) old glossary. It was already obsolete, thanks to the excellent observation made by Pinwhiz. There is a totally new, written-from-scratch glossary in the files area. If you agree or disagree with the terms I have chosen, say so here. -- Ward Shrake -- 173 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:29am Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > > Answer: "A very good excuse to > > buy one of Ward's Arcadia multi- > > carts!" > > It this some kind of a subliminal > message ? hahahha!!!! > > Sorry, couldn't resist!! =) > > --- Sly DC --- Basically, yes. It is more of a blatant attempt to scrape up some orders, so that I know I can pay all of my bills this month. Times are tough for all of us that work in the acting industry, right now. Nobody is working much, if at all. That's good as far as research on this console group goes. That sucks hard, as far as my finances go. Not trying to whine... just stating the facts as I see them. I don't really expect you guys to buy them, but you might know of some people that want one. Send them my e-mail address, please. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 174 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:32am Subject: Tunix Lists mrhaboobi Hi ok here goes #1 - Space Attack #2 - Jungler #3 - Super Gobbler #4 - Space Vulture #5 - Alien Invader #6 - Missile War #7 - Ocean Battle #8 - 3D Bowling #9 - Brain Quizz #10 - Soccer #11 - Star Chess #12 - Capture #13 - Baseball #14 - Cat Trax #15 - Escape #16 - Space Raiders #17 - Tanks A Lot #18 - Red Clash #19 - Grand Slam Tennis #20 - Spiders #21 - The End #22 - Jump Bug #23 - Astro Invader #24 - R2D Tank #25 - Turtles/Turpins #26 - Route 16 #27 - Hobo #28 - Funky Fish #29 - Pleaides So far i have all games except baseball and Escape, #29 does seem to be the last in the series though the tunix box and catalogs do show others, i dont believe they were released. I was starting up a web page and was typing in the information, but ive been too busy with wor to do anything with the site... http://www.forgottenrelics.co.nz/Systems/Tunix/Games.asp Here are the sheen games i own Alien Invader - M6 Auto Race - M20 Crazy Climber - M25 Nibblemen - MG316 Sea Battle - M12 Space Mission - M4 Hope this helps in some way :) i have a few spare tunix bits aswell if people are interested.. Im still learning about the various variations, so much to learn :) Greg 175 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:23am Subject: Hardware observations: "M-1800" series commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mrhaboobi" wrote: (snip) > So this is what i know so far, hope > this will help you. Oh and here's > another informations that i didn't > include in the big list. There's > another clone that exist, but since > i don't know which company did or > didn't released this clone, i didn't > speculate on this one. Ouch! Not speculating is good, but not sharing it with the group is bad. My suggestion for things like that is to simply put it in a message thread that is named something like "Hardware observations". Storing it is good enough, as a first step. You do not have to do anything more than that, right away. Again, this is not Usenet... stuff like that *IS* this board's whole reason for existence! Keep it coming! If we do things that way, we'll soon have a big database to look at. Once we have one huge database, we can start seeing patterns and anomalies. (This is what I tried say, a few other times so far; that it is important to be disciplined, and to gather and THEN analyze.) Feel free to change the message headings at will, when the subject of the posting changes. (Like I just did... it was "Hi guys" before.) If we do not do that, we'll never be able to search through old posts. > On my Breakaway game that came with > the Sheen 2001 on the bottom of the > front box, it says: "For use with Home > Video Centre 2001/Home > Entertainment System M1800". And on the insides of the three Ormatu 2001 carts that "Retro Rene" loaned me, it says "M-series (M-1800)". That's two similar items we have found so far. Let's add to it, and build up more info as we go. > In the V.G.C. FAQ, the M1800 is listed > but by who ? Don't know...but if i'm > assuming (just taking a guess here), > i would say that it would be Conic > would have released (or not) this > M1800. but like i said, it's only a > wild guess, i'm not assuming anything > here. So until that someone will come > foward with a proof, let's just put > aside the M1800 for now until we know > which company manufactured it. You are obviously "getting" most of what I've been saying, in regards to how to do research projects. But we do not need to put the whole subject aside... we just need to seperate the two very different tasks of (1) gathering raw data, and (2) analyzing the raw data. And it is fine, in my opinion, to do what you did... list the raw observation first, then say "this is what I think it means" after. Even if your guess turns out over time to be wrong, you still made the objective observation, and it is here. We can re-think things as we go. But if it is not listed here, we have no data to analyze. > --- Sly DC --- > Will definitely need some mental > vacations when the next DP Guide > will came out! :) If all of our heads do not simply explode first! ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- 176 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:50am Subject: Re: Hi Guys commie_fan Sounds like an "Ormatu family" Arcadia 2001 console group machine to me. (And to Sly we well, apparently.) This is a new type of machine that we just discovered and/or confirmed at the end of February 2002. By the way, pinout diagrams are in my Arcadia 2001 FAQ, for all of the four families of non-pin-compatible families... the Emerson, MPT- 03, Palladium, and Ormatu. I would not bet against finding others? As Pinwhiz mentioned yesterday, we're currently re-thinking the whole family thing, to try to figure out how to categorize it when a game console has a pinout that matches another family, but you cannot insert a cart into that console due to differences in plastic cases. My current attempts to sort that mess out are in the files section, in the "glossary" text. I'm open to suggestions and comments, etc. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mrhaboobi" wrote: > Hi Guys, just wanted to introduce myself, im just reading all the > posts to see whats going on. > > As far as my collection goes.. ive got a few questions for you on a > machine i have not been able to find information for. its a Sheen > 2001, uses the wide, short version of carts, i have nibbleman, crazy > climber, auto race, and 2 or 3 other games that i dont have in front > of my right now, but they seem to be just name variations of other > games.. > > I also have an almost complete Tunix collection.. 2 carts away from > what seems to be all known Tunix releases ( Though acording to my > catalogs there was the possiblity of more games, but i dont think > they made it ). > > anyways if anyone knows about the 2001 i have id love to know more > about it, > > Greg 177 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:23am Subject: RE: Tunix Lists tempest_2084 Great... Another system to collect games for. Do all the Tunix games have those crappy looking little white labels on the back? I got a few (from you actually) that didn't have anything on the back. Tempest -----Original Message----- From: mrhaboobi [mailto:greg@...] Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:32 PM To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Tunix Lists Hi ok here goes #1 - Space Attack #2 - Jungler #3 - Super Gobbler #4 - Space Vulture #5 - Alien Invader #6 - Missile War #7 - Ocean Battle #8 - 3D Bowling #9 - Brain Quizz #10 - Soccer #11 - Star Chess #12 - Capture #13 - Baseball #14 - Cat Trax #15 - Escape #16 - Space Raiders #17 - Tanks A Lot #18 - Red Clash #19 - Grand Slam Tennis #20 - Spiders #21 - The End #22 - Jump Bug #23 - Astro Invader #24 - R2D Tank #25 - Turtles/Turpins #26 - Route 16 #27 - Hobo #28 - Funky Fish #29 - Pleaides So far i have all games except baseball and Escape, #29 does seem to be the last in the series though the tunix box and catalogs do show others, i dont believe they were released. I was starting up a web page and was typing in the information, but ive been too busy with wor to do anything with the site... http://www.forgottenrelics.co.nz/Systems/Tunix/Games.asp Here are the sheen games i own Alien Invader - M6 Auto Race - M20 Crazy Climber - M25 Nibblemen - MG316 Sea Battle - M12 Space Mission - M4 Hope this helps in some way :) i have a few spare tunix bits aswell if people are interested.. Im still learning about the various variations, so much to learn :) Greg To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 178 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:32am Subject: Hanimex and Leisurevision Lists tempest_2084 Does anyone have a list like Greg's Tunix list for Hanimex and Leisurevision titles? I've got a few gaps in my personal lists. Hanimex #2 #3 #4 #5 #6 #7 #9 #12 #13 #15 #19 #20 #21 #22 #23 #24 #25 Leisurevision #16 #21 #22 #23 #24 #25 #26 #27 #28 #30 #33 #36 Tempest 179 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:27am Subject: Cartridge and console listings commie_fan Hi all. I just made the latest in a series of massive changes to (what started out as) Sly DC's cartride / console listings. They are all up on my Arcadia 2001 web site, in the "Texts" section, as always. http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm The latest changes are that there are now THREE listings of carts, and THREE listings of consoles. The same exact info is found in all of them. (I also uploaded Sly's original list from some days ago.) The only list differences are that they are sorted differently within each seperate listing. This makes visual searches much easier. You can now just pick the list you want -- family, company, or program name. (I now have a DOS-based batch file, sorting and assembling, just the same way I've had my Commodore VIC-20 lists set up for years. Or for that matter, the seperate Arcadia "ROM image" lists.) I am still working on all of these listings! Patience, please. Many changes will take place soon; additions, corrections, columns moving around, you name it. When the dust settles, these will be the best lists made, period. (And thanks much for helping that to be true! I could not have done it without all of your assistance!) There are entire companies NOT listed there yet. This is because I do not have the information available to me just yet, in an easily managed form. I am going to go backwards a little bit, and fill in all the gaps that I can, from my own guide sections, from version 6. -- Ward Shrake -- 180 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:33am Subject: Re: Tunix Lists mrhaboobi Hi Matt, Well ive had a range of games, and a few duplicates, its funny that it seems there are three label variations on the back of the cart, and this is for the same game, so far ive seen White, Silver and totally blank. So i dont know if it was a quality control thing or maybe just a different batch, but the carts could have anyone of the three labels. As for ther other bits that came with the games, the boxes never came with the blue plastic trays that protected the carts and also the boxes from getting out of shape. The numbering down the side of the boxes had different font sizes for various games. so there was nothing consistant about the manufacturing of the carts. Tunix also has not Short carts, like you find with arcadia. just a few small difference that make it a machine i enjoy collecting for, my arcadia collection is pretty small so im looking to increase that. Im also looking to obtain other compatible systems, and wards multicart is high on the list, just cant afford it right now. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > Great... Another system to collect games for. Do all the Tunix games have > those crappy looking little white labels on the back? I got a few (from you > actually) that didn't have anything on the back. > > Tempest > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mrhaboobi [mailto:greg@w...] > Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2002 7:32 PM > To: arcadia2001consoles@y... > Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Tunix Lists > > > Hi ok here goes > > #1 - Space Attack > #2 - Jungler > #3 - Super Gobbler > #4 - Space Vulture > #5 - Alien Invader > #6 - Missile War > #7 - Ocean Battle > #8 - 3D Bowling > #9 - Brain Quizz > #10 - Soccer > #11 - Star Chess > #12 - Capture > #13 - Baseball > #14 - Cat Trax > #15 - Escape > #16 - Space Raiders > #17 - Tanks A Lot > #18 - Red Clash > #19 - Grand Slam Tennis > #20 - Spiders > #21 - The End > #22 - Jump Bug > #23 - Astro Invader > #24 - R2D Tank > #25 - Turtles/Turpins > #26 - Route 16 > #27 - Hobo > #28 - Funky Fish > #29 - Pleaides > > > So far i have all games except baseball and Escape, #29 does seem to > be the last in the series though the tunix box and catalogs do show > others, i dont believe they were released. I was starting up a web > page and was typing in the information, but ive been too busy with > wor to do anything with the site... > > http://www.forgottenrelics.co.nz/Systems/Tunix/Games.asp > > Here are the sheen games i own > > Alien Invader - M6 > Auto Race - M20 > Crazy Climber - M25 > Nibblemen - MG316 > Sea Battle - M12 > Space Mission - M4 > > > Hope this helps in some way :) i have a few spare tunix bits aswell > if people are interested.. Im still learning about the various > variations, so much to learn :) > > > Greg > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@y... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 181 From: "kiwigame" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 11:59am Subject: Re: Cartridge and console listings kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Hi all. I just made the latest in a series of massive changes to > (what started out as) Sly DC's cartride / console listings. They e > all up on my Arcadia 2001 web site, in the "Texts" section, as >always. > http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm Ok - The list of Intervision 2001 games on this list is incomplete and in some cases the games are wrongly named... Manu has a list here: http://pelikonepeijoonit.net/iv2001games.html Crazy Climber is called "Crazy Wall" (possibly - assuming nothing) on this system... Note: Manu used to have a nice pic of the Crazy Wall cart/box on his site but I can't now find it.... He also has Super Bug listed as No.33 for this system... Cheers Mike 182 From: "slydc" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 1:25pm Subject: Re: Sly DC's lists slydc I'll surely buy one, but only at the Philly (is someone is selling them) or after the Philly. Have to make some $$ because, like you said, finance is pretty low for me too. --- Sly DC --- 183 From: "slydc" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 1:27pm Subject: Re: Tunix Lists slydc Thanks Greg, and on all behalfs of everyone here too! GReat! Wer're learning more and more each passing day, this ROCKS! =) --- Sly DC --- 184 From: "slydc" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 1:47pm Subject: Re: Hardware observations: "M-1800" series slydc > Ouch! Not speculating is good, but not sharing it with the group is > bad. # I don't like telling something that's half-informed, but next time i encounter anything, i'll will share it, count on it. > My suggestion for things like that is to simply put it in a message > thread that is named something like "Hardware observations". # Okie dokie! > (snip) Keep it coming! # No problemo, compadre! :) > And on the insides of the three Ormatu 2001 carts that "Retro Rene" > loaned me, it says "M-series (M-1800)". That's two similar items we > have found so far. Let's add to it, and build up more info as we go. # Hope you will add this info under "rumor mill". > And it is fine, in my opinion, to do what you did... list the raw > observation first, then say "this is what I think it means" after. > Even if your guess turns out over time to be wrong, you still made > the objective observation, and it is here. We can re-think things as > we go. But if it is not listed here, we have no data to analyze. # It's a big 10-4. =) > If all of our heads do not simply explode first! ;-) # LOL!!! And how! :-) Hope mine won't explode at the Philly. # if i'm lucky, i'll have a Tempest MPT-03 (i'm waiting for it) # to trade and some few MPT-03 carts as well. And many Leisure-Vision, # Arcadia 2001 and Hanimex empty boxes as well. These takes too much # space. If you want to easely spot me, i'll be with a buch of dudes # that will speak French from time to time. If you hear a word # like "tabarnak", you've found me! =) And if it's a women who say # this word, than it will be PunkOffGirl. She learn some few Quebecian # swear words at our last meeting! LOL!! =) --- Sly DC --- 185 From: "RodansRaiders" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 2:40pm Subject: Cart # 33 for the Leisure vision : R2D Tank Model # MC 1037 RodansRaiders Hi One and all ! I have this in my collection. Email me if you would like to have a picture of the front and back of the cart. My picture will show my cart exactly as appears. It's an Emerson Family cart, in a long case. I'm always looking for the Bandai Arcadia Carts. Email me: konrad@... 186 From: "slapdash26" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:12pm Subject: Re: New "glossary" uploaded in files area slapdash26 "commie_fan" wrote: > There is a totally new, written-from-scratch glossary in the files area. Hey guys... Was looking through the glossary, and saw this at the end: > Please also be aware of this fact; there are many other console groups, spread out throughout various countries all over the world, that have NO RELATIONSHIP AT ALL with either of these console groups. These include but are not limited to clones of the "RCA Studio II" Not to open a debate, or spur anyone to action, but there IS at least a superficial relationship between the Arcadia and the Studio II -- there are SII clone carts (not quite slot-compatible IIRC) for a system called the MPT-02. Disquietingly close to MPT-03, wouldn't you say? :-) Anyway, I'm really writing to say hello, and also that if you want to add me to the ebay list (sorry if I can edit it myself; missed that if so) -- I'm slapdash there. 187 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:27pm Subject: Re: Cartridge and console listings commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: (snip) > Ok - The list of Intervision 2001 > games on this list is incomplete > and in some cases the games are > wrongly named... (snip) That's exactly what I'm looking for, so keep it coming, guys! My thanks to all of you, for all the help you are giving on this. OK... the Tunix list was added in, the Intervision list was too. I added the part numbers for R2D Tank, also. (I'm caught up, I think?) The console list is probably about 30% or more "full of something" in one way or another. That's my fault, as much as anyone's... I'm not quite sure what Sly DC meant in his original list, on some things like console names versus console manufacturers / licensee's, etc. I also tried to update the console list that is in the FAQ. Not sure what I'm going to do, long term... which is more official, etc? The text-based console listing is much easier to sort and re-sort, so for now, that definitely stays! Feel free to tell me just how full of something I am, so we can fix it and have a great list! :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 188 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 3:40pm Subject: Re: New "glossary" uploaded in files area commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slapdash26" wrote: (snip) > Not to open a debate, or spur anyone > to action, but there IS at least a > superficial relationship between the > Arcadia and the Studio II -- there are > SII clone carts (not quite > slot-compatible IIRC) for a system > called the MPT-02. Disquietingly > close to MPT-03, wouldn't you say? :-) Point taken, Russ. Both that the glossary's last paragraph was poorly written (by me), and that I shouldn't kill more bandwidth than I need to. I deleted and rewrote the last paragraph. If that's all the problem that you guys had so far with that glossary of suggested terms, I feel pretty good about things, overall. :-) > Anyway, I'm really writing to say > hello, and also that if you want to > add me to the ebay list (sorry if I > can edit it myself; missed that if > so) -- I'm slapdash there. "Hello" back. Glad to see so many new faces here... which is almost a silly thing for me to say, for a message board that is not even one week old yet! :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 189 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:11pm Subject: Re: Tunix Lists stefanpiasecki Hi, if you have any spare Tunix-stuff, I'd be very interested... Just drop me a line at stefanpiasecki@... Thanks Stefan 190 From: "kiwigame" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:19pm Subject: Interton & link to Philips kiwigame Just going through old mags & stuff here looking for Arcadia related info. Nothing on Arcadia yet but I did find another interesting note on the Interton VC-4000. (& a v.nice set of scans!) http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary's/Mags/Television%20And%20Home% 20Video/tvhvgm3.jpg "Television and Home Video Winter 1978/79" "Todays first generation of progammable television games have a rather limited display of numbers and symbols since they must be built up from discrete 'squares' - thus the rather stylised display of aircraft, tanks, cars and such like. For instance the Fairchild game breaks the TV Screen into 128 x 64 'dots' and each must be stored in the game. With the current cost of electronic storage, producing a higher defination picture using more dots would make the price uneconomic. These games are also limited by the maximum working speed of the microprocessor which spends a substancial amount of its time updating the display memory. MULLARD has developed a technique for display that instead stores the screen locations of several objects such as bats, tanks, and planes which are only recalled for display when actually required, thus allowing for higher defination to be achieved and releasing the microprocessor to control more complicated games and sequences. The MULLARD integrated circuits are currently being marketed by Interton" Mullard was/is another bit of Philips. Based in the UK Mullard were originally a Valve manufacturer and have been owned by Philips since the 1940s and were on of Philips largest R&D labs... http://web.ukonline.co.uk/members/honor.m/commerce/business/prl.html Any ideas as to what IC it is that the Article refers to? Ta Mike 191 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 7:48pm Subject: TVG 2000 / Acardia 2001 catalogues stefanpiasecki Hi, as discussed yesterday, here's a list of games that apear in those 2 catalogue versions that came out for the German TVG2000 system (for comparison I also add the contents of the Emerson catalogues I have). Please note one interesting thing: In the earlier version of the TVG catalogue those "forbidden" games like "Robot Killer" or "Crazy Gobbler" appear, while these titles were removed from the 2nd edition of the catalogue. They didn't change the numbers though and I remember that those games also weren't removed from the shops because when I was a kid and owned this system, I remember these games being constantly available and I asked myself why somebody should buy Crazy Gobbler, Super Gobbler AND Cattrax (which is of course not such a blatant PacMan clone) or Robot Killer AND Escape or Space Squadron AND Space Raiders - personal note: I bought Space Squadron because I thought the cover was much cooler (Helicopters suck in space games!!!). Next to this, I wanted a Defender clone and from the screenshots I knew that SS had mountains while SR didn't. So obviously they reacted on the lawsuits over in the US by removing those games from the catalogues, but they did NOT withdraw them from the shops. Here comes the list. Most games show screenshots and descriptions, others don't. In this case the text says "soon available". In the case of a missing screenshots, it says "Licensed Arcade Game" on this empty space. TVG 2000 (no date, but I guess late 82) No. Title Descr. Screenshot 1 Brain Quiz y y 2 Crazy Gobbler y y 3 Space Attack y y 4 Robot Killer y y 5 Super Gobbler y y 6 Space Vultures y y 7 Breakaway y y 8 Alien Invaders y y 9 Space Mission y y 10 Ocean Battle y y 11 3D Bowling y y 12 Capture y y 13 Soccer y y 14 Tanks a Lot y y 15 Escape y y 16 Missile War y y 17 Cattrax n y 18 Space Raiders n y 19 Jungler n y 20 Space Squadron n y 21 Star Chess n y 22 Gr. Sl. Tennis n y 23 Funky Fish n n 24 Pleiades n n TVG 2000 (8/83) No. Title Descr. Screenshot 1 Brain Quiz y y 3 Space Attack y y 5 Super Gobbler y y 6 Space Vultures y y 7 Breakaway y y 8 Alien Invaders y y 9 Space Mission y y 10 Ocean Battle y y 11 3D Bowling y y 12 Capture y y 14 Tanks a Lot y y 15 Escape y y 16 Missile War y y 17 Cattrax y y 18 Space Raiders y y 19 Jungler y y 22 Gr. Sl. Tennis y y 23 Funky Fish y y 24 Pleiades y y 25 Spiders y y 26 Red Clash y y 27 The End y y 28 Astro Invader y y 29 Turtles/Turpin y y 30 Jump Bug y y 31 R2DTank y y 32 Hobo y y 33 3D Soccer y y Notes: - obviously they removed "Soccer" in favour of "3D Soccer". - I once had TVG-3D Soccer but sold it. I noticed that although all TVG games have a list of available games on the back (unlike the intl. versions that show the instructions), 3D Soccer had nothing on the back, just an empty blue label. I guess I gave this cart to Tempest 2084. Can you check? Either this was a bad print or they just gave up hope on their system.... - Star Chess was removed although there shouldn't have been any law problems - as far as I can see all screenshots are the same, nothing was edited - although both Baseball and American Football are displayed on the TVG2000 box, they never appeared in the catalogues Emerson catalogue (7/82) No. Title Descr. Screenshot 1 Cattrax y y 2 Space Attack y y 3 Escape y y 4 Funky Fish n n 5 Space Raiders y y 6 Brain Quiz y y 7 Space Vultures y y 8 Alien Invaders y y 9 Space Mission y y 10 Missile War y y 11 Ocean Battle y y 12 Red Clash n n 13 3D Bowling y y 14 Am. Football y y 15 Baseball y y 16 Soccer y y 17 Breakaway y y 18 Star Chess y y 19 Capture y y 20 Tanks a Lot y y 21 Gr. Sl. Tennis y y 22 Pleiades n n 23 Jungler n y I also had a look at my TVG-device and it has two stickers on the bottom "UAL passed" and "Q.C.2". Ser.# is 10226. That's it for me today. Stefan 192 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 9:13pm Subject: Re: Interton & link to Philips commie_fan Very interesting, Mike. Has anyone thought to try a Patent search on the chips that Signetics made, or that Mullard / Phillips / whoever made? I know it has been done on other consoles, in the past? Ward Shrake --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: > > Just going through old mags & stuff here looking for Arcadia related > info. > > Nothing on Arcadia yet but I did find another interesting note > on the Interton VC-4000. (& a v.nice set of scans!) > > http://www.theoldcomputer.com/Libarary's/Mags/Television%20And% 20Home% > 20Video/tvhvgm3.jpg > > "Television and Home Video Winter 1978/79" > > "Todays first generation of progammable television games > have a rather limited display of numbers and symbols since they > must be built up from discrete 'squares' - thus the rather > stylised display of aircraft, tanks, cars and such like. > For instance the Fairchild game breaks the TV Screen into 128 x > 64 'dots' and each must be stored in the game. With the current > cost of electronic storage, producing a higher defination picture > using more dots would make the price uneconomic. These games are > also limited by the maximum working speed of the microprocessor > which spends a substancial amount of its time updating the display > memory. > MULLARD has developed a technique for display that instead stores the > screen locations of several objects such as bats, tanks, and planes > which are only recalled for display when actually required, thus > allowing for higher defination to be achieved and releasing the > microprocessor to control more complicated games and sequences. > The MULLARD integrated circuits are currently being marketed by > Interton" > > Mullard was/is another bit of Philips. > Based in the UK Mullard were originally a Valve manufacturer > and have been owned by Philips since the 1940s and were > on of Philips largest R&D labs... > http://web.ukonline.co.uk/members/honor.m/commerce/business/prl.html > > Any ideas as to what IC it is that the Article refers to? > > Ta > > Mike 193 From: "billlagr" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:35pm Subject: screen snaps billlagr Hi guys... ive posted some screen grabs at the embryonic stage of a web page. www.netspace.net.au/~billlagr The page is very very pre-under construction and may explode if used incorrectly. The screen grabs arent crystal clear, they were taken from the console, not an emulator, and one of the more...err...endearing qualitites of my MPT-03 is the total and utter lack of any form of RF shielding. The only button that works on the web page is the images one anyway And so ends my meagre contribution for today. Bill 194 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Apr 11, 2002 10:50pm Subject: Re: Hanimex and Leisurevision Lists stefanpiasecki Do Hanimex and LV-games have the same numbers? Or are there similar differences like between LV and Arcadia games? I have a lot of LV-games. Will look at them at home and let you know about the numbers. Stefan 195 From: slapdash Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 0:20am Subject: Re: TVG 2000 / Acardia 2001 catalogues slapdash26 On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, stefanpiasecki wrote: > [...] > So obviously they reacted on the lawsuits over in the US by removing > those games from the catalogues, but they did NOT withdraw them from > the shops. > [...] > - Star Chess was removed although there shouldn't have been any law > problems Not in the US, but there was a "Star Chess" game (dedicated unit) by Waddingtons in the UK, so maybe they were playing "better safe than sorry", or faced a lawsuit there too? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 196 From: "oboissea" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:14am Subject: Re: screen snaps oboissea > ive posted some screen grabs at the embryonic stage of a web page. > www.netspace.net.au/~billlagr Excellent Bill! 197 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:26am Subject: Re: TVG 2000 / Acardia 2001 catalogues commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash wrote: > On Thu, 11 Apr 2002, stefanpiasecki wrote: > > [...] > > So obviously they reacted on the > > lawsuits over in the US by removing > > those games from the catalogues, but > > they did NOT withdraw them from > > the shops. > > [...] > > - Star Chess was removed although > > there shouldn't have been any law > > problems > > Not in the US, but there was a > "Star Chess" game (dedicated unit) > by Waddingtons in the UK, so maybe > they were playing "better safe than > sorry", or faced a lawsuit there too? Good grief! (Ward shaking his head, and laughing.) What game made for this console group WAS NOT either illegal, immoral, or fattening!? I would never have figured that one was questionable in some way. Stuff like that should make a good bit of trivia for inclusion in the guide. Keep it coming, guys! This is, by the way, a perfect example of what I am preaching here... gathering raw data items, in objective form, and posting them here as a first step. And then figuring out what they mean, at a later point. I am starting to get closer to actually typing the guide entry up. As things get closer, I am stressing out less. (Hopefully, it shows?) One of my new side-projects is going to be starting up an official list of what is written on certain ROM chips, as far as manufacturing codes go. I'm finding too many unexpected things, not to. The time line text in the FAQ is proving itself useful, as I try to mentally compare ROM manufacturing date stamps with other events. Some of the Signetics-produced carts have dates way before and after you would think. Some illegal games were produced (not necessarily by Signetics; some were GI chips) in ROM format even months AFTER Atari had begun sueing competitors for copyright infringement. Weird stuff. -- Ward Shrake -- 198 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:37am Subject: Re: Tunix Lists commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mrhaboobi" wrote: (snip) > Tunix also has not Short carts, > like you find with arcadia. (snip) Would you please confirm that, 100%? You are saying that on the Tunix carts (Emerson family), there is NEVER a single "short cart"? That EVERY single cart ever made for Tunix' console is a "long cart"? It sounds pretty clear "as is" but I would rather be paranoid than sorry, where assumptions go. Especially when something does NOT fit into the expected pattern... that's where we will learn the most. In this case, it makes me wonder if Tunix carts pre-dated or post- dated the other Emerson-families? Reading info off of the ROM chips inside would give us the best way of determining that, but studying cart lists, catalogs and so on, could also give us useful raw data. I would guess they came later than others, but that is just wild speculation. I'd rather not commit to it, as an untested assumption. -- Ward Shrake -- 199 From: "slydc" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:09am Subject: Re: screen snaps slydc Awesome! Some i've never saw in screenshots since i can't really use all the game systems that are PAL or SECAM. I only have a 5 inch B/W TV to test the game systems. Can't wait to get my hands on a Multisignal TV. Oh and Bill, i've taken all your screenshots and made them abit more clearer with my old trusty Paint Shop Pro 3.11, it's less darked. The only thing i can't do is to screen-out the RF modulation we see in the screenshots. Go check out the section "files", i will post a ZIP file called "MPT-SHOT.ZIP" since i don't know your e-mail adress. --- Sly DC --- 200 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:36am Subject: "Happy Birthday" to these message boards commie_fan Hi all... just being silly. I could not easily resist the temptation to say "Happy Birthday" to these week-old message boards... that now have 200 postings in them! If anyone says we're not trying hard to find out all we can about these consoles, slap them silly, OK? We are kicking butt! :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 201 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:24am Subject: Tunix Cart Confirmation mrhaboobi Hi Ward, From my experience of collecting the Tunix system, i have not seen one short cart what so ever. I have had almost 3 of each cart come through my hands and every time the cart has been the Tall version, never a short one, infact the first time i saw a short arcadia cart i was surprised. With arcadia can a game come in both a tall and short version? or does a game only come in a short or Tall version. I ask this because as my last post said i own all the games bar two on that tunix list, all are boxed and pretty much complete, and if a game comes in either a tall or a short but not both versions then i can %100 confirm that there are no short cart variations. I can also confirm that there are Two versions of the Tunix machine, It seems the earlier version machines came with a Woodgrain look and feel, i believe similar to the Arcadia? However later released machines did not have the wood grain around the base and insted had just a plain black base, the controllers on the two machine also had slightly different writing on them, apart from that ive not opened the two machine and compared side by side, so i dont know if there are any differences. I have a catalog listing all the tunix games that were supposed to be comming, there seems to be a few that i dont have and i can only assume they never made it, the same thing occurs on the box for the tunix, there are pictures of games like american football and crazy gobbler, but ive yet to find one of those or any mention of those other than on the box. Finally another i found funny was that on the back of the boxes they list what games had been released previous to this game, ( in numeric order ), however the highest number i have ever seen is something like 24, so the last 5 releases are never mentioned on any boxes even game #29 only has up to around #24 listed on the back of it. i found this strange. Greg 202 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:20am Subject: Re: screen snaps commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > Awesome! Some i've never saw in > screenshots since i can't really use > all the game systems that are PAL or > SECAM. I only have a 5 inch B/W TV > to test the game systems. Can't wait > to get my hands on a > Multisignal TV. > > Oh and Bill, i've taken all your > screenshots and made them abit more > clearer with my old trusty Paint Shop > Pro 3.11, it's less darked. The only > thing i can't do is to screen-out the > RF modulation we see in the screenshots. > Go check out the section "files", i will > post a ZIP file called "MPT-SHOT.ZIP" > since i don't know your e-mail adress. > > --- Sly DC --- I was looking for an excuse to bring this up, and this is perfect. We have something like 20 megs of "free" space that goes with this message board. Do NOT be shy about using it, so long as you honestly feel the things you are posting there are "on-topic" ... stuff about the Interton VC-4000, the Arcadia 2001, or something reasonably related to our research. (No "naughty bits" and so on.) Even those Spy Cam pics of the chimps that assemble the consoles... good stuff! Same with the "bookmarks" area -- if you find a cool URL, make sure we all have a copy of it, by posting it to that section of these message boards. I posted a few of the ones that Mike and Bill just recently put up... but if I missed any, feel free to add them, guys. You will see what I mean when you visit the "bookmarks" section, but I did some minor editing to the list of URLs that is already there. All I really did was change the titles, by adding a categorization code of sorts. The list is sorted by the ASCII text that you use for your titles, so by putting "Fan web site" or "Magazine article" in front of the actual title, all the similar items are grouped with one another. It just makes reading the list of URLs more user-friendly. -- Ward Shrake -- 203 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:46am Subject: Re: Tunix Cart Confirmation commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mrhaboobi" wrote: (snip) > With arcadia can a game come in > both a tall and short version? > or does a game only come in a > short or Tall version (snip) I am open to suggestions to the contrary, but as far as I know, each individual cartridge made by Emerson in the U.S., were consistently one size or the other, but never both sizes. (Can anyone confirm?) Here is the list, as I know it. This should apply for most of the Emerson family; Emerson Leisure-Vision and Hanimex and Schmid apparently followed the same pattern. Tele-Fever's four carts are all long versions. (Any corrections or input are welcome.) -- Ward Shrake -- (list begins) Short carts: ============= 3-D Bowling 3-D Soccer Alien Invaders Baseball Brain Quiz Breakaway Capture Missile War Ocean Battle Soccer Space Mission Star Chess Long carts: ============= American Football Astro Invader Cat Trax Crazy Gobbler Escape Grand Slam Tennis Hobo Jump Bug Jungler Pleiades R2D Tank Red Clash Robot Killer Route 16 Space Attack Space Raiders Space Squadron Space Vultures Spiders Super Gobbler Tanks A Lot The End Turtles (end of list) 204 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 11:54am Subject: "ROM image date list" has been created commie_fan Just so you guys know, there is another new list, up on Ward's web site. (See "bookmarks" for the URL.) This list is set up to try to tell us all something about who made what, when. It is already doing that, in my opinion. By comparing the actual manufacturing dates of various ROM chips, chronologically sorted, you can see what the first games made were, and who made them. (Signetics did, and "Alien Invaders" happened a year before I would have thought any games were made for the Arcadia 2001 console group.) Once we get the list filled in with more entries, and more raw data, it will be more useful to researchers. Once we're there, we will have a very good way of telling what consoles were the first ones made. (For now I would not speculate much, because most of the info we have is biased towards the MPT-03... we kept internal scans of those when we were doing our "multiple family" research, back during 1999.) You techies may want to double-check the list, to make sure I did not miss anything, or mess anything up, when I entered the info? And of course, any info you can add to the list would be welcome. If I'm missing any info that was sent to me by e-mail or whatever, just remind me of it, or resend it. (But I think that's everything?) -- Ward Shrake -- 205 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 0:12pm Subject: Re: screen snaps commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > Awesome! Some i've never saw in > screenshots since i can't really > use all the game systems that are > PAL or SECAM. I only have a 5 inch > B/W TV to test the game systems. > Can't wait to get my hands on a > Multisignal TV. (snip) Yet another "subliminal message" as Sly called it earlier: For what it is worth, my Leisure-Vision console displays the non-U.S. game programs just fine, on my U.S.-based NTSC video monitor screen. You would never know that many of the game programs came from PAL consoles, to look at them running from my Arcadia 2001 multi-cart. I assume that implies the game programs will run on either the PAL or NTSC television standards, and that it is primarily the video output sections on the main console circuit board, that determines the type of the final output? This is presumably one of the reasons that the 2636 chip was redesigned, and later became the 2637 chip? This is not necessarily "gospel"... just making an observation. Oh, by the way... it was Sly that sold me my console, in mid-1999 or so. And I'd say that it went to a good cause, given my recent input? I had done the work of figuring out there was an MPT-03 family that was ROM-compatible with the Emerson family, WITHOUT actually owning either of those consoles myself, at the time. (Thanks again, Sly!) -- Ward Shrake -- 206 From: "slydc" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:00pm Subject: Re: screen snaps slydc You're welcome and glad i could help you out by selling you a Leisure-Vision Ward. I don't remember when i sold it to you but i still remember the price: 15$ with a Baseball cart. I would have traded it but at that time, you didn't had anything up to trade. Could this means that i can a rebate on the Arcadia Multi-Cart?! LOL!!! (another subliminal message! *snikers!* ) --- Sly DC --- 207 From: "slydc" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 2:16pm Subject: Palladium & Mr.Altus carts on Ebay slydc Anyone interested to buy these carts ? http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1345708668 The seller ships worldwide and you can buy it now for les than 20$ US. As for myself, i just collect one of each titles and one of each systems. That's it. And if i'll be getting an Arcadia Multi-Cart, there will be some games from my personnal collection i will put on trade, but only later or at the Philly. Good bidding! :) --- Sly DC --- 208 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 4:21pm Subject: Re: screen snaps commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > > You're welcome and glad i could > help you out by selling you a > Leisure-Vision Ward. I don't > remember when i sold it to you > but i still remember the price: > 15$ with a Baseball cart. I > would have traded it but at > that time, you didn't had > anything up to trade. > > Could this means that i can a > rebate on the Arcadia Multi-Cart?! > LOL!!! (another subliminal message! > *snikers!* ) > > --- Sly DC --- What I ought to do is slap the (bleep) out of you, for selling me the console. Do you SEE all this work you caused me, Sly? ;-) Seriously... for you, Sly? Yeah, I would make you a deal. E-mail me about it. (I have two sitting here that are 90% completed now. Dieter will probably get the other one, then I have to start making more.) But before everyone else comes running up, asking for a reduced price on one of my multi-carts, *please* try to remember that I am only charging for the actual parts that I have to buy to make each one, plus charging minimum wage for my assembly time. (Every one is made 100% from scratch, PC boards and all. They take 8 to 12 hours each.) Bottomline: I know the $100 price I am asking is more money than a lot of people can afford. But if you would not work for less than minimum wage, please do not ask me to. I would literally be better off getting a part time job, flipping burgers, if I charged less than I am already charging for them. So, if I have a very good personal reason to make someone a deal, I will. Otherwise, I won't. Sorry. -- Ward Shrake -- 209 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:45pm Subject: "Time line" text has been updated commie_fan I added some info to the FAQ's "time line" section. Things make a bit more sense now, when you follow them from item to item. (See my FAQ, which you can find via the 'bookmarks' feature of this Yahoo! group.) Personally, I am seeing more and more that Phillips and/or Signetics was definitely in a very hot competition with Atari, during the early 1980's. Gamers knew that Atari was going head-to-head with Odyssey, in courtrooms of the day. I'm wondering how much further it spread? The timeline now shows that Signetics had actually manufactured ROM chips, long BEFORE the first baby steps that Emerson took in the game market. (Trademark application, business plans announced, etc.) This makes me wonder if they were, in fact, the "foreign" maker of the game console, which Emerson admits they licensed everything from? Interesting stuff to ponder. -- Ward Shrake -- 210 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:49pm Subject: Re: Tunix Cart Confirmation stefanpiasecki > I am open to suggestions to the contrary, but as far as I know, each > individual cartridge made by Emerson in the U.S., were consistently > one size or the other, but never both sizes. (Can anyone confirm?) > > Here is the list, as I know it. This should apply for most of the > Emerson family; Emerson Leisure-Vision and Hanimex and Schmid > apparently followed the same pattern. Tele-Fever's four carts are all > long versions. (Any corrections or input are welcome.) > As far as the German TVG2000 systems are concerned I can confirm that this list is also valid for these. Stefan 211 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 5:52pm Subject: Re: Cartridge and console listings commie_fan The cart lists have just gone through yet another massive revision. We are up to 347 distinct cartridges now. For those of you who care, this update adds 57 new titles. And counting... some of the companies listed probably had two dozen or more carts total, but we only have a handful of carts listed for some companies, at the moment. If you can add (or correct) anything in the lists, say so here, as usual. Thanks! For the record, when I went over the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" write-up, trying to see how many carts we now about now that were not listed when DPCG #6 came out during 2000... there are 160+ carts missing, that I get the supreme pleasure of typing in. (How fun?) -- Ward Shrake -- 212 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:08pm Subject: Nibbleman question stefanpiasecki Hi, I just browsed Bills page and had a close look at the Nibbleman screenshot. I always thought that this would be just a name variation of Crazy Gobbler, but this seems to have the maze of Cattrax and the gameplay of Crazy Gobbler? There seems to be no "house" for the ghosts, but there was one in both CG and Cattrax. I really wonder what the Devilman game will be like that I expect to get soon from Australia. Stefan 213 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:33pm Subject: Re: Rumor: Signetics printed schematics in data books dieterk_ccc > > Btw see: > > http://216.239.35.100/search?q=cache:- > > ob_zlqzJpMC:www.besteauktion.de/page.php3%3Fcat_id%3D771%26p% > > 3D0+Frech-Verlag+TV-Computerspiele&hl=en > > > > Anyone have this book? > > Also very interesting! It seems the book didn't get any bids. But the > auction is already over and I can't access finished auctions on this > site ... bah! But I already registered there and will try to find the > guy who sold the book. I will let you know if I have news ... > > Great job, Michael!!! > > Cheers, > Dieter Good news. I found the seller and he re-listed the books yesterday. I already have placed bids. There is not only the "TV-Computerspiele" book from Frech Verlag 1980, but there is also a book called "TV Spielcomputer" from Elektor Verlag 1982. Of course I will let you guys know if I should win them. Cheers, Dieter 214 From: "billlagr" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:57pm Subject: Re: screen snaps billlagr no probs..and thanks Sly. That was my next goal for this w/end, was to try and set up some shielding to clear up the interference. When i mentioned there was no RF shielding in the console, the ONLY thing that could pass as shielding is the tin box around the little RF modulator-and even that doesnt have a top or bottom!! --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > Awesome! Some i've never saw in screenshots since i can't really use > all the game systems that are PAL or SECAM. I only have a 5 inch B/W > TV to test the game systems. Can't wait to get my hands on a > Multisignal TV. > > Oh and Bill, i've taken all your screenshots and made them abit more > clearer with my old trusty Paint Shop Pro 3.11, it's less darked. The > only thing i can't do is to screen-out the RF modulation we see in > the screenshots. Go check out the section "files", i will post a ZIP > file called "MPT-SHOT.ZIP" since i don't know your e-mail adress. > > --- Sly DC --- 215 From: "billlagr" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 7:58pm Subject: Re: "Happy Birthday" to these message boards billlagr Cake and Beer (or your choice of drinkies) anyone? :) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Hi all... just being silly. I could not easily resist the temptation > to say "Happy Birthday" to these week-old message boards... that now > have 200 postings in them! > > If anyone says we're not trying hard to find out all we can about > these consoles, slap them silly, OK? We are kicking butt! :-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- 216 From: "billlagr" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 8:05pm Subject: Re: Nibbleman question billlagr Not having played Crazy Gobble/Cattrax, in nibblemen there is a game option to have "hyperspaces", where you can press a controller button and you are transported to a random part of the maze, or "gates", where pressing the button you can block off parts of the maze and open them again...do Cattrax/Gobbler do this too? --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi, > I just browsed Bills page and had a close look at the Nibbleman > screenshot. I always thought that this would be just a name variation > of Crazy Gobbler, but this seems to have the maze of Cattrax and the > gameplay of Crazy Gobbler? There seems to be no "house" for the > ghosts, but there was one in both CG and Cattrax. > I really wonder what the Devilman game will be like that I expect to > get soon from Australia. > Stefan 217 From: "billlagr" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:26pm Subject: Re: screen snaps : UPDATED! billlagr I'm doing a Ward, the web page has been updated already in less than 24 hours. Added scans of the carts, but I havent updated the screenshots yet. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > Hi guys... > ive posted some screen grabs at the embryonic stage of a web page. > www.netspace.net.au/~billlagr > > The page is very very pre-under construction and may explode if used > incorrectly. The screen grabs arent crystal clear, they were taken > from the console, not an emulator, and one of the > more...err...endearing qualitites of my MPT-03 is the total and utter > lack of any form of RF shielding. > The only button that works on the web page is the images one anyway > > And so ends my meagre contribution for today. > > Bill 218 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:51pm Subject: Re: Nibbleman question stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > Not having played Crazy Gobble/Cattrax, in nibblemen there is a game > option to have "hyperspaces", where you can press a controller button > and you are transported to a random part of the maze, or "gates", > where pressing the button you can block off parts of the maze and > open them again...do Cattrax/Gobbler do this too? > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > wrote: > > Hi, > > I just browsed Bills page and had a close look at the Nibbleman > > screenshot. I always thought that this would be just a name > variation > > of Crazy Gobbler, but this seems to have the maze of Cattrax and > the > > gameplay of Crazy Gobbler? There seems to be no "house" for the > > ghosts, but there was one in both CG and Cattrax. > > I really wonder what the Devilman game will be like that I expect > to > > get soon from Australia. > > Stefan 219 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:51pm Subject: Re: Nibbleman question stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > Not having played Crazy Gobble/Cattrax, in nibblemen there is a game > option to have "hyperspaces", where you can press a controller button > and you are transported to a random part of the maze, or "gates", > where pressing the button you can block off parts of the maze and > open them again...do Cattrax/Gobbler do this too? Yes, Cattrax does, CG not I think. Is your character getting faster when he eats a bonus pill or is there a pill at all? In Cattrax there is an object appearing in the middle from time to time. If you eat it, a counter on the top of the screen tells you how much time is left to catch those enemies and to eat them up. Do you have this in Nibbleman as well? CG is a straight copy of the original PacMan with exactly these functions (except some). Super Gobbler is pretty much the same, but the character always goes in one direction and gets faster (SG seems to be a clone of Ms. PacMan). This means, you press the stick into a direction once and the character keeps on going. In Crazy Gobbler you have to constantly push the stick into direction. How does Nibbleman handle this? Maybe Nibbleman is the earliest version of all PacMan clones on the Arcadia at all? Stefan 220 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Apr 12, 2002 9:52pm Subject: Re: screen snaps : UPDATED! stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > I'm doing a Ward, the web page has been updated already in less than Yes, DO THE WARD, MAN. SP 221 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 5:47am Subject: Re: screen snaps : UPDATED! commie_fan You had me laughing out loud on that one, guys! Yup, that's my goal in life... to have my name become a verb. Or something. ;-) You guys should have seen me, when I was still a young whipper- snapper, in the military. I would do the work of three people in our eight-person shop, go home at the same time everyone else did, and STILL feel like I was "goofing off" at times! For awhile there, I had started to get myself into trouble on the base, habitually, without really realizing that I was doing it just to keep my mind working on problem-solving. (Get right up to that edge, look over, see the view, and back off a step or two. I got pretty good at risk management!) When I did consciously realize what I was doing, I re-channeled that mental energy back into Commodore 64 programming... and happily so. Although I would, from time to time, still decorate the barracks parking lot with burnt rubber from either my weekend Drag Race car, or one that a buddy owned. We'd tune them up on the base, test them on the local freeways, then race them on the weekends. Ah, youth.... I would say, "It kept me out of the pool hall," but you bunch of youngsters might not understand the reference. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 222 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 6:26am Subject: Tech: RF interference shielding commie_fan Just so you guys know... there are things like do-it-yourself RF shielding kits available. My "JDR Microdevices" catalog lists one, and JDR does have a web site. Other suppliers probably also have it. "SUPER SHIELD Reduce or eliminate EMI / RFI interference on plastic electronic enclosures. 40db - 50db shielding effectiveness with a one or two mil coating across a frequency range of 5 to 1800Mhz. Dry time: 10 minutes at room temperature, recoat time 5 minutes. A tough durable acrylic base with high purity nickel. Excellent adhesion to most plastics. (Part # MG-841, cost is $19.99 USD per spray can.)" In other words, you can spray paint the inside walls of your video game machine's plastic housing, with this high-metal-content spray paint. It will add a decent level of shielding. This is probably not a bad idea at all, if you're careful, etc. The tank-armor-thick RF shielding around my Leisure-Vision did not do much but hold any heat inside where it would cook everything, so I got rid of it. I have not had too many problems with RF interference, but I would consider something like this spray, if I had problems. I have no idea how much real metal is mixed into something like ordinary "chrome" type spray paint, or if it would be worth a try? -- Ward Shrake -- 223 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 6:08am Subject: Re: Nibbleman question commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi, > I just browsed Bills page and had > a close look at the Nibbleman > screenshot. I always thought that > this would be just a name variation > of Crazy Gobbler, but this seems to > have the maze of Cattrax and the > gameplay of Crazy Gobbler? There > seems to be no "house" for the > ghosts, but there was one in both > CG and Cattrax. I really wonder > what the Devilman game will be > like that I expect to get soon > from Australia. > Stefan Just a reminder... about 80% of the games that exist have been dumped or "archived". There is a list on my web site, in the Texts section, that lists what has or has not been archived, so far. (Since I am the guy doing 90% of that now, I ought to know what is or isn't dumped.) The bookmarks section has a link to Digital Press. My web site has the same link. There is an Arcadia emulation section up on the Digital Press web site. All the archived ROM images are up there. The emulation may not be perfect, but it beats nothing... you can at least get a good feel for a game's style and gameplay with it? There are also links to the MESS emulator web site in both places. Any new games that are archived, will end up going to DP. The "game vault" over at at ClassicGaming.com used to accept new ROM images from whomever sent them in, but they "froze" their vault, long ago. This does not mean the ROMs are not available... just not there. By the way, Bill is loaning me two new carts. They should arrive soon. One other person promised me some other carts, but is too busy with real life to deal with it soon. More news as that happens. -- Ward Shrake -- 224 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 5:56am Subject: Re: Nibbleman question commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > Maybe Nibbleman is the earliest > version of all PacMan clones on > the Arcadia at all? > Stefan Well, you guys would know for sure what came when, if you were to take a screwdriver to all of your carts, open them up, and send in the text printed on the top of the ROM chips. (Hint, hint!) Seriously, I do NOT expect anyone to "kill" carts in this pursuit. I realize that some models, like Emerson family carts, have screws in the back, under the rear label, and that some folks would rather not kill their labels to do something as nerdy as reading ROM date codes. I'll save you one other bit of trouble, if you're considering doing this... the short style Emerson boards marked "291-1" have ROMs on them. The "291-3" boards have an EPROM on them. Only the ROMs have useful messages, in my opinion. (Even if an EPROM had a stamped date code on it, that just shows when it was made, not when it was programmed with the contents of a game program.) I am keeping track of all this sort of board-related info, since it has some practical applications... if you have a 291-3 board, you just put a socket on it, burn an EPROM, and you have any 4k game you want. Do a bit of soldering (to connect "A12") and you can do 8k. I plan to write all this up -- AFTER the guide, and a nice rest -- and to put it on my "Ward's Tech Corner" web site. (See bookmarks.) -- Ward Shrake -- 225 From: "billlagr" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 11:22am Subject: Re: Nibbleman question billlagr Thats this afternoons project after i get back from the hardware store! Got to get some wood to try and keep the dog from climbing fences and playing pinball...or is that being a pinball? (off two bumpers no less!! ding ding!) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > wrote: > (snip) > > Maybe Nibbleman is the earliest > > version of all PacMan clones on > > the Arcadia at all? > > Stefan > > > Well, you guys would know for sure what came when, if you were to > take a screwdriver to all of your carts, open them up, and send in > the text printed on the top of the ROM chips. (Hint, hint!) > > Seriously, I do NOT expect anyone to "kill" carts in this pursuit. I > realize that some models, like Emerson family carts, have screws in > the back, under the rear label, and that some folks would rather not > kill their labels to do something as nerdy as reading ROM date codes. > > I'll save you one other bit of trouble, if you're considering doing > this... the short style Emerson boards marked "291-1" have ROMs on > them. The "291-3" boards have an EPROM on them. Only the ROMs have > useful messages, in my opinion. (Even if an EPROM had a stamped date > code on it, that just shows when it was made, not when it was > programmed with the contents of a game program.) > > I am keeping track of all this sort of board-related info, since it > has some practical applications... if you have a 291-3 board, you > just put a socket on it, burn an EPROM, and you have any 4k game you > want. Do a bit of soldering (to connect "A12") and you can do 8k. I > plan to write all this up -- AFTER the guide, and a nice rest -- and > to put it on my "Ward's Tech Corner" web site. (See bookmarks.) > > -- Ward Shrake -- 226 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 2:49pm Subject: Two new ROM images were recently archived commie_fan As promised, I digitally archived the two MPT-03 carts that Bill LaGrue sent me, on a loan. They won't arrive at the Digital Press emulation area for some days, but they'll eventually show up there. "Circus" and "Blackjack & Poker" were the carts, this time. I'm going to test them both in my multicart, but they checked good so far, both in the archiving process itself and running the images in MESS. That makes 49 total ROM images so far; Jay Tilton dumped the first 12, Carlo Altieri dumped one, and Ward dumped the next 36. :-) A semi-random thought... when I saw "Doraemon" running, it was in fact a not-seen-before game. But I should clarify that... it looks more or less like an improved "Route 16" game, with new graphics. I have not seen the other Bandai exclusives yet. When they cross my path, I'll send them on a side trip through my EPROM reader set-up. -- Ward Shrake -- 227 From: "billlagr" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 3:33pm Subject: NEW FILE - 2650 disassembler billlagr In case anyone (besides me :) gets the desire to disassemble the ROM images and have a peek, I've uploaded the DASMx disassembler, which supports lots of CPU's but most importantly the 2650. Command line based, too. 228 From: "billlagr" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 3:36pm Subject: NEW BOOKMARK - Signetics 2650 reference manual billlagr Link to a PDF veriosn of the 2650 reference manual. Downloadable too! 229 From: "billlagr" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 3:40pm Subject: Re: screen snaps : UPDATED! billlagr WARD - (War-d) , To quickly or frequently update or amend. eg "Ive done a Ward on the web page three times today" See also "All-Nighter", "Pepsi" One more for the glossary ;) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > You had me laughing out loud on that one, guys! Yup, that's my goal > in life... to have my name become a verb. Or something. ;-) > > You guys should have seen me, when I was still a young whipper- > snapper, in the military. I would do the work of three people in our > eight-person shop, go home at the same time everyone else did, and > STILL feel like I was "goofing off" at times! For awhile there, I had > started to get myself into trouble on the base, habitually, without > really realizing that I was doing it just to keep my mind working on > problem-solving. (Get right up to that edge, look over, see the view, > and back off a step or two. I got pretty good at risk management!) > > When I did consciously realize what I was doing, I re-channeled that > mental energy back into Commodore 64 programming... and happily so. > > Although I would, from time to time, still decorate the barracks > parking lot with burnt rubber from either my weekend Drag Race car, > or one that a buddy owned. We'd tune them up on the base, test them > on the local freeways, then race them on the weekends. Ah, youth.... > > I would say, "It kept me out of the pool hall," but you bunch of > youngsters might not understand the reference. :-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- 230 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 5:25pm Subject: Re: screen snaps : UPDATED! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > WARD - (War-d) , To quickly or > frequently update or amend. eg "Ive > done a Ward on the web page three > times today" See also "All-Nighter", > "Pepsi" > > One more for the glossary ;) Squeeze in a reference to the arcade game "Robotron: 2084" and I think we have a winner!? :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 231 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 5:39pm Subject: Re: NEW FILE - 2650 disassembler commie_fan "PS Edit" is a nice Hex Editor program you can download as shareware. Good stuff, if you're wanting to have those capabilities? Look through "3D Soccer" of "Fusball" if you want to see big chunks of what looks like raw assembly code, full of fancy-sounding labels. I forgot about "Funky Fish" -- it has some hidden text in it; one more name to add to our lists, or whatever... "GAME COPYRIGHT 1983 UA LTD; GRAPHICS COPYRIGHT 1983 CHRIS CAPENER" -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > In case anyone (besides me :) gets the desire to disassemble the ROM > images and have a peek, I've uploaded the DASMx disassembler, which > supports lots of CPU's but most importantly the 2650. Command line > based, too. 232 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 6:09pm Subject: Re: screen snaps : UPDATED! stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > WARD - (War-d) , To quickly or frequently update or amend. eg "Ive > done a Ward on the web page three times today" > See also "All-Nighter", "Pepsi" > > One more for the glossary ;) > This is how history is done. Over at Jaguar Interactive we have a running gag like "high ags" because some years ago there was a little pest that went on everybody's nerves. And when this person wanted to underline that something is really fun, he wrote something like "I played it with high ags" or "it was sheer high ags to me". Something like this. He obviously meant "high gas" or "full throttle" or whatever, he just never was able to spell "gas" properly. So even today if we want to make fun on somebody we ask him if it was really "high ags" (and of course the youngsters never understand, haha). So I guess I'll have a hell-of-a-ward with my ISP project on Monday again, where all the time something must be changed ..... Have a nice weekend, folks Stefan 233 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 6:11pm Subject: Re: screen snaps : UPDATED! stefanpiasecki > Squeeze in a reference to the arcade game "Robotron: 2084" and I > think we have a winner!? :-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- Ah, let's see... what about this: "Man, this project needs a wardster in a frequency of a 2084er?" Just a quick one before the morning coffee.... Stefan 234 From: "kiwigame" Date: Sat Apr 13, 2002 7:31pm Subject: Re: NEW FILE - 2650 disassembler kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > I forgot about "Funky Fish" -- it has some hidden text in it; one > more name to add to our lists, or whatever... > > "GAME COPYRIGHT 1983 UA LTD; GRAPHICS COPYRIGHT 1983 CHRIS CAPENER" Ward Look here: http://home.germany.net/101-36834/epyx/jumpman2.html A Chris Capener programmed the Coleco version of Jumpman Jr with Randy Glover for Epyx.... Theres a screen shot of the title screen with his name here... Some of you guys - Russ? will know Randy... Cheers Mike 235 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 0:01am Subject: Re: NEW FILE - 2650 disassembler billlagr I did see that one last night, along with the 2(?) "Andrew Choi" dedications..I cant remember what they were in tho! Unfortunately it looks like there isnt much to see in Circus or Blackjack. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > "PS Edit" is a nice Hex Editor program you can download as shareware. > Good stuff, if you're wanting to have those capabilities? > > Look through "3D Soccer" of "Fusball" if you want to see big chunks > of what looks like raw assembly code, full of fancy-sounding labels. > > I forgot about "Funky Fish" -- it has some hidden text in it; one > more name to add to our lists, or whatever... > > "GAME COPYRIGHT 1983 UA LTD; GRAPHICS COPYRIGHT 1983 CHRIS CAPENER" > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > In case anyone (besides me :) gets the desire to disassemble the > ROM > > images and have a peek, I've uploaded the DASMx disassembler, which > > supports lots of CPU's but most importantly the 2650. Command line > > based, too. 236 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 0:33am Subject: Examining Cartridges billlagr I opened all my MPT-03 carts, scanned them all in, sent them off to Ward to have a look at.. While doing so I found something that fits in with the ROMS being made by Signetics, that is on Rev 2 PCB's, on the back, is a square S. I emailed that pic off to Ward to have a look at too, but it seems to lend weight to the argument that maybe Signetics themselves manufactured (some) carts. I have posted a couple of pics in the Photos section to check out Bill 237 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 4:40am Subject: Re: screen snaps : UPDATED! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > WARD - (War-d) , To quickly or > > frequently update or amend. eg "Ive > > done a Ward on the web page three > > times today" > > See also "All-Nighter", "Pepsi" > > > > One more for the glossary ;) (snip) > So I guess I'll have a hell-of-a-ward > with my ISP project on Monday again, > where all the time something must be > changed ..... Have a nice weekend, folks > Stefan Question... does this mean that I will be cast out of the group into outer darkness, in eternal shame, if and when I quit "doing a Ward" myself? What if we figure things all out at some point, or run out of new discoveries for awhile? What if after all the recent "hell-of-a- Ward" things, I do something horrible and unspeakable, like taking a break from all this? Will I be demoted back to "Hey you" status at that point? Or will I perhaps be stoned to death with loose Fairchild Channel F or RCA Studio II carts? Do we have rules on this yet? :-) On a somewhat more serious note, all this reminded me of the "New Hacker's Dictionary" and the "Jargon File". Anyone with some free time, and a desire for semi-off-topic, ultra-nerdy jokes should check out the bookmarks section... I'll put up a link to that info. -- Ward Shrake -- 238 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 5:58am Subject: Re: NEW FILE - 2650 disassembler commie_fan Excellent! (Darn, but you're good at this, guys!) Mike reminded me about something, and I just added a Bookmark to it. If you guys have not already seen "The Giant List of Classic Game Programmers" then you should stop right now, and go visit it. Really! For the record, I also moved all of our bookmarks into individual folders, grouped by subject category. It was getting hard to find stuff, with it all lumped into one big list. (Which is cool; it just meant we have a lot of stuff available to us!) -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" > wrote: > > I forgot about "Funky Fish" -- > > it has some hidden text in it; one > > more name to add to our lists, or > > whatever... > > > > "GAME COPYRIGHT 1983 UA LTD; > > GRAPHICS COPYRIGHT 1983 CHRIS CAPENER" > > Ward > Look here: > http://home.germany.net/101-36834/epyx/jumpman2.html > > A Chris Capener programmed the Coleco > version of Jumpman Jr with Randy Glover > for Epyx.... Theres a screen shot of the > title screen with his name here... > > Some of you guys - Russ? will know Randy... > > Cheers > > Mike 239 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:29am Subject: Binary file reader program -- should we make one? commie_fan I would like to see someone write a program that allows the average, non-technical person to look through ROM images, searching them for hidden ASCII messages. "More eyes" has to be a good thing, right? I know that "hex editor" programs do exist, and can be downloaded. The problem is, the average non-technical person is (correctly) afraid to use them. They do not know what all that info means, but they do know they should not be messing with a tool that can be used to seriously alter -- read that "totally (bleep) up" -- ANY file, including the operating system your PC needs to function properly. What I have in mind is a "read only" version of a hex editor -- something that takes a binary file, converts it into a visual format that looks just like a hex editor's output, but that will NOT allow changes to be made to the target file. (Does that make sense?) Does anyone here know of a read-only binary file reader, or something that would read a file and output an ASCII text file interpretation? Something that will NOT EVER alter the file you're looking at? I may end up writing one, and spreading it around gaming circles, if something like this does not already exist. One semi-off-topic note... the Commodore computers had a non-standard version of ASCII, affectionately called "PetSCII". This makes finding hidden messages somewhat more difficult, because there were also two different character set interpretations possible on that system. You could have upper case letters with graphic symbols BUT no lower case letters, or upper and lower case letters BUT no graphic symbols. If and when I write a hex reader tool, I'll try to make a work-around, so messages that are hidden, twice, do not end up being overlooked. For those of you willing to risk using hex editors... I personally use and like "PS Edit" on my modern PC. Do a search engine check on "hex editor" or "binary file editor" to find others. A number of useful-looking programs will come up. (But as far as I know, they are all set to both read AND write binary files... which might be like handing a loaded machine gun to a drunken chimpanzee, in some cases.) -- Ward Shrake -- 240 From: slapdash Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:35am Subject: Re: Binary file reader program -- should we make one? slapdash26 On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, commie_fan wrote: > Does anyone here know of a read-only binary file reader, or something > that would read a file and output an ASCII text file interpretation? > Something that will NOT EVER alter the file you're looking at? There's an old DOS program called "List" (l.com or list.com I think) that might work. It was a quick directory/file browser, and for text files, there's a hex mode via alt-h, which lists ASCII and straight hex (side-by-side? can't remember for sure). It should work just fine on bin files. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 241 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 6:23am Subject: Re: NEW FILE - 2650 disassembler commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > I did see that one last night, > along with the 2(?) "Andrew Choi" > dedications..I cant remember what > they were in tho! (snip) Which is why I started a little text file, with nothing but those sort of things, up on my web site. (See the Bookmarks section of this message group, under the reference / research heading.) They were in "Space Attack" and "Crazy Gobbler," by the way. I did look through every one of the 50 available ROM images last night, making sure I found everything. (One is a 98% match for another -- 3D Soccer and Fussball -- so technically only 49 images.) See my "Binary file reader" thread for related thoughts. -- Ward Shrake -- 242 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 10:26am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Hexedit2.exe Uploaded by : billlagr Description : Hex File Editor and Viewer You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hexedit2.exe To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, billlagr 243 From: "RodansRaiders" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 2:54pm Subject: Emerson Arcadia 2001 and Clones RodansRaiders I thought you might like to see the list of games that I know exist for the Arcadia 2001 and its clones. The only one I'm sure of on the Bandai, and I know the rest exist because they are in my own collection. ARCADIA 2001: #1 Cat Trax, #2 Space Attack, #3 Escape, #4 Funky Fish "never released", #5 Space Raiders, #6 Brain Quiz, #7 Space Vultures #8 Alien Invaders, #9 Space Mission, #10 Missle War, #11 Ocean Battle, #12 Red Clash, #13 3-D Bowling, #14 American Football, #15 Baseball, #16 Soccer, #17 Breakaway, #18 Star Chess, #19 Capture, #20 Tanks A Lot, #21 Grand Slam Tennis, #22 Pleiades " never released", # 23 Jungler, # 24 Spiders, carts 25 and up are not known. LEISURE VISION: #1 Crazy Gobbler, #2 Space Attack, #3 Robot Killer, #4 Jungler #5 Space Squadron, # 6 Super Gobbler, #7 Space Vultures, #8 Alien Invaders, #9 Space Mission, #10 Missle War, #11 Ocean Battle, #12 Rded Clash, #13 3-D Bowling, #14 American Football, #15 Baseball, #16 Soccer, #17 Breakaway, #18 Star Chess, #19 Capture, #20 Brain Quiz, #21 ?, #22 Grand Slam Tennis, #23 ?, #24 ?, #25 ?, #26 ?, #27 ?, #28 ?, #29 Spiders, #30 ?, #31 Jump Bug, #32 Astro Invader, #33 R2D Tank, #34 Turtles/Turpin, #35 Route 16, #36 ?, #37 Hobo. Carts 38 and up are unknown ? HANIMEX HMG 2650: #1 Crazy Gobbler, #2 Space Attack, #3 Robot Killer, #4 Jungler, #5 Space Squadron, #6 Super Gobbler, #7 Space Vultures, #8 Alien Invaders, #9 Space Mission, #10 Missle War, #11 Ocean Battle, #12 ?, #13 3-D Bowling, # American Football, #15 ?, #16 Soccer, #17 Breakaway, #18 Star Chess, #19 Capture, #20 Brain Quiz, #21 ?, # 22 ?, #23 ?, #24 Cat Trax, #25 ?, #26 Space Raiders, #27 Tanks A Lot, #28 Pleiades, #29 ?, #30 The End, #31 Jump Bug, #32 ?, #33 ? #34 Turtles/Turpin. Carts 35 and up are unknown. SCHMID TVG 2000: #1 Brain Quiz, #2 Crazy Gobbler, #3 Space Attack, #4 Robot Killer, #5 Super Gobbler, #6 Space Vultures, #7 Breakaway, #8 Alien Invaders, #9 Space Mission, #10 Ocean Battle, #11 3-D Bowling, #12 Capture, #13 Soccer, #14 Tanks A Lot, #15 Escape #16 Missle War, #17 Cat Trax, #18 Space Raiders, #19 Jungler, #20 Space Squadron, #21 Star Chess, #22 Grand Slam Tennis, #23 Funky Fish, #24 Pleiades, #25 Spiders, #26 Red Clash, #27 The End, #28 Astro Invader, #29 Turtles/ Turpin, #30 Jump Bug, #31 R2D Tank, #32 Hobo, #33 3-D Soccer, carts 34 and up are unknown. TUNIX HOME ARCADE: #1 Space Attack, #2 Jungler, #3 Super Gobbler #4 Space Vultures, #5 Alien Invaders, #6 Missle War, #7 Ocean Battle, #8 3-D Bowling, #9 Baseball, #10 Soccer, #11 Star Chess, #12 Capture, #13 Brain Quiz, #14 Cat Trax, # 15 Escape, #16 Space Raiders, #17 Tanks A Lot, #18 Red Clash, #19 Grand Slam Tennis, #20 Spiders, #21 The End, #22 Jump Bug, #23 Astro Invader, #24 Red Tank, #25 Turtle/ Turpin, #26 Route 16, #27 Hobo, #28 Funky Fish, #29 Pleaides, carts 30 and up are unknown. BANDAI ARCADIA: #1 ?, #2 ?, #3 Alien Invaders, #4 ?, #5 ?, #6 ?, #7 ?, #8 ?, #9 ?, #10 ?, #11 R2D Tank, carts 12 - 49 are not known, #50 Kidou Senshi Gundam - In English this stands for Mobile Soldier Gundam, Carts 51 and up are unknown. LEONARDO: Carts unknown HOME ARCADE CENTRE: Carts unknown Even though you see my mom's name under Rodan's Raiders its me Tim Thomas. I hope these lists help you in some way. I began archiving these in February of 2000. Let the gaming begin ! 244 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 9:31pm Subject: Re: screen snaps UPDATED YET AGAIN billlagr The web site has pretty much been re-done from the ground up, the images are bigger, clearer, brighter, and if I have them, Ive also added the box and overlay scans. I also have the few instruction manuals that I own converted to PDF. I'd like to get more done, so if anyone has any manuals they'd like to add, so I can convert them to PDF and then we can all have a copy, let me know! 245 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 9:34pm Subject: Andrew Choi billlagr I located an Andrew Choi at the Uni of Hong Kong, in the Computing/IT department. He is also working on a conversion of Emacs for Mac OS X. I thought it sounded promising, so I contacted him, unfortunately he isnt "our" Andrew Choi. --- Hi Bill, Although my name is Andrew Choi and I am a programmer, I didn't program any video game in 1982. Best of luck in finding this person. Andrew. 246 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 14, 2002 10:09pm Subject: Arcadia/MPT-03 Memory Map billlagr Hi guys, I'm positive that at some stage I saw a memory map for the Arcadia/MPT-03...but I cant remember where, and I cant find it again!! does anyone have any ideas?? Bill 247 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:54am Subject: Re: Arcadia/MPT-03 Memory Map commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > Hi guys, > I'm positive that at some stage > I saw a memory map for the > Arcadia/MPT-03...but I cant > remember where, and I cant find it > again!! does anyone have any ideas?? > > Bill Possibly the files section? The tech notes on the Interton console MAY be what you remember seeing? (Don't ya LUV this info overload!) -- Ward Shrake -- 248 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:34am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 and Clones mrhaboobi Hi, So i see you have listed the Tunix games, im interested to know how you sourced all the games? ive never seen baseball or Escape, and ive been looking for close to 1 - 2 years. Id be real interested to know more about your tunix collection. Thanks Greg --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "RodansRaiders" wrote: > I thought you might like to see the list of games that I know exist > for the Arcadia 2001 and its clones. The only one I'm sure of on the > Bandai, and I know the rest exist because they are in my own > collection. > > ARCADIA 2001: > #1 Cat Trax, #2 Space Attack, #3 Escape, #4 Funky Fish "never > released", #5 Space Raiders, #6 Brain Quiz, #7 Space Vultures > #8 Alien Invaders, #9 Space Mission, #10 Missle War, #11 Ocean > Battle, #12 Red Clash, #13 3-D Bowling, #14 American Football, > #15 Baseball, #16 Soccer, #17 Breakaway, #18 Star Chess, #19 > Capture, #20 Tanks A Lot, #21 Grand Slam Tennis, #22 Pleiades > " never released", # 23 Jungler, # 24 Spiders, carts 25 and up > are not known. > > LEISURE VISION: > #1 Crazy Gobbler, #2 Space Attack, #3 Robot Killer, #4 Jungler > #5 Space Squadron, # 6 Super Gobbler, #7 Space Vultures, #8 > Alien Invaders, #9 Space Mission, #10 Missle War, #11 Ocean > Battle, #12 Rded Clash, #13 3-D Bowling, #14 American Football, > #15 Baseball, #16 Soccer, #17 Breakaway, #18 Star Chess, #19 > Capture, #20 Brain Quiz, #21 ?, #22 Grand Slam Tennis, #23 ?, > #24 ?, #25 ?, #26 ?, #27 ?, #28 ?, #29 Spiders, #30 ?, #31 > Jump Bug, #32 Astro Invader, #33 R2D Tank, #34 Turtles/Turpin, > #35 Route 16, #36 ?, #37 Hobo. Carts 38 and up are unknown ? > > HANIMEX HMG 2650: > #1 Crazy Gobbler, #2 Space Attack, #3 Robot Killer, #4 > Jungler, #5 Space Squadron, #6 Super Gobbler, #7 Space > Vultures, #8 Alien Invaders, #9 Space Mission, #10 Missle > War, #11 Ocean Battle, #12 ?, #13 3-D Bowling, # American > Football, #15 ?, #16 Soccer, #17 Breakaway, #18 Star Chess, > #19 Capture, #20 Brain Quiz, #21 ?, # 22 ?, #23 ?, #24 > Cat Trax, #25 ?, #26 Space Raiders, #27 Tanks A Lot, #28 > Pleiades, #29 ?, #30 The End, #31 Jump Bug, #32 ?, #33 ? > #34 Turtles/Turpin. Carts 35 and up are unknown. > > SCHMID TVG 2000: > #1 Brain Quiz, #2 Crazy Gobbler, #3 Space Attack, #4 Robot > Killer, #5 Super Gobbler, #6 Space Vultures, #7 Breakaway, > #8 Alien Invaders, #9 Space Mission, #10 Ocean Battle, #11 > 3-D Bowling, #12 Capture, #13 Soccer, #14 Tanks A Lot, #15 > Escape #16 Missle War, #17 Cat Trax, #18 Space Raiders, > #19 Jungler, #20 Space Squadron, #21 Star Chess, #22 Grand > Slam Tennis, #23 Funky Fish, #24 Pleiades, #25 Spiders, > #26 Red Clash, #27 The End, #28 Astro Invader, #29 Turtles/ > Turpin, #30 Jump Bug, #31 R2D Tank, #32 Hobo, #33 3-D Soccer, > carts 34 and up are unknown. > > TUNIX HOME ARCADE: > #1 Space Attack, #2 Jungler, #3 Super Gobbler #4 Space > Vultures, #5 Alien Invaders, #6 Missle War, #7 Ocean Battle, > #8 3-D Bowling, #9 Baseball, #10 Soccer, #11 Star Chess, > #12 Capture, #13 Brain Quiz, #14 Cat Trax, # 15 Escape, #16 > Space Raiders, #17 Tanks A Lot, #18 Red Clash, #19 Grand > Slam Tennis, #20 Spiders, #21 The End, #22 Jump Bug, #23 > Astro Invader, #24 Red Tank, #25 Turtle/ Turpin, #26 Route > 16, #27 Hobo, #28 Funky Fish, #29 Pleaides, carts 30 and up > are unknown. > > BANDAI ARCADIA: > #1 ?, #2 ?, #3 Alien Invaders, #4 ?, #5 ?, #6 ?, #7 ?, > #8 ?, #9 ?, #10 ?, #11 R2D Tank, carts 12 - 49 are not > known, #50 Kidou Senshi Gundam - In English this stands for > Mobile Soldier Gundam, Carts 51 and up are unknown. > > LEONARDO: > Carts unknown > > HOME ARCADE CENTRE: > Carts unknown > > Even though you see my mom's name under Rodan's Raiders its > me Tim Thomas. I hope these lists help you in some way. I began > archiving these in February of 2000. > Let the gaming begin ! 249 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 4:48pm Subject: Screenshot similarities commie_fan I will be glad when we can all see all of the carts for these systems, for a number of reasons. One is, I am beginning to alter my views towards the current emulator, quite a bit. It does not crash, but compared to what I know from experience the screens are supposed to look like... sorry, they're only about an 80% match sometimes. If that, in a few cases; colors, graphics, all sorts of screwy stuff. Oh well... just another "nobody cares about this system" type reality. But back to the point... if you compare screenshots between some of the maze games, such as Cat Trax and Tanks a Lot and the Gobblers and even Jungler, there are quite a few similarities. It looks, to be honest, like they probably took the first maze game they had up and running, and reused the code to make the others. Look at the mazes, side by side -- even in a catalog screenshot, they're remarkably alike in many ways. Much more alike than different!? I think I mentioned it, but "Doraemon" looked like a variant of "Route 16" to me, once I'd given it a bit more thought. Weird, how much code they seemingly reused? I can understand it at first... porting stuff from the Interton to the Arcadia. And then I can even understand the necessity to do it again, when "legalizing" a number of games. But geez... this is a bit extreme, guys! I guess the only thing I can read out of this, is that (a) they never expected guys like us to "see it all" and compare everything, and (b) their constant time pressure apparently didn't allow much else to happen? -- Ward Shrake -- 250 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 5:16pm Subject: Faked screenshots commie_fan Man, but what a weird animal this console group is!? You can't trust ANYTHING dealing with the early history of this machine. (Or the middle or later periods, for that matter, but the beginning is BAD!) Looking over catalog screenshots from 5/82 and 7/82 was bad enough... comparing them visually to the real thing, is mind-boggling. "Cat Trax" in the catalogs has only one side exit per maze side; one on the left, one on the right, and that is it. The game itself has three side exits per maze side, for six total. And both claim to be set on Game 1, Option 1. Two of the top-center maze bits don't match up well, either; they're horizontal only in the catalog, "L" shaped in the real game. The catalog is halfway between "Crazy Gobbler" and "Cat Trax"... which seems to show that Crazy Gobbler was the original, infringing version? Which makes sense, since it was going to be the first game out on some systems, and it was only a 2k game? If you look at the "Gobbler" screen -- the real one -- it has the name Gobbler on it. Which, if you count characters, is exactly the same as "Pac-Man". I know that on the Bally / Astrocade console, a "Pac-Man" game later became "Muncher" by a similar coding trick. The only other 2k game to show up so far, was "Capture". Now that it looks like some systems sold that one as a 2-in-1 game, that sort of makes more sense. (Capture / Bowling, I mean. And note that's odd in itself; I can only take it to mean an original, non-3D bowling game, likely ported over from the Interton console?) I'll save the rest of things for later, but I'm definitely going to have a few interesting observations in the DPCG #7 write-up. ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- 251 From: "billlagr" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:44pm Subject: Re: Arcadia/MPT-03 Memory Map billlagr Yeah it could of been...I've lost track of things, for all I remember it could be a reciepe for Aunt Gladys's Home Brew. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > Hi guys, > > I'm positive that at some stage > > I saw a memory map for the > > Arcadia/MPT-03...but I cant > > remember where, and I cant find it > > again!! does anyone have any ideas?? > > > > Bill > > > Possibly the files section? The tech notes on the Interton console > MAY be what you remember seeing? (Don't ya LUV this info overload!) > > -- Ward Shrake -- 252 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:45pm Subject: Re: Screenshot similarities stefanpiasecki number of games. But geez... this is a bit extreme, guys! I guess the only thing I can read out of this, is that (a) they never expected guys like us to "see it all" and compare everything, and (b) their constant time pressure apparently didn't allow much else to happen? >I guess your are right about this one, Ward. But not only did they reuse the mazes. More often they reused sound-fx or complete animations. Take the tiny guys in Tanks a lot and Robot Killer for example. Maybe you remember that referring to the Palladium games I once said that it looks as if there were at least 2 different groups of game- developers, using existing code and graphical elements. I would call them the Arcadia group and the Palladium group although this might not be true. What is apparent is that most of the Arcadia games use a dark or black background and reuse many of the above mentioned elements while the Palladium games very often have white backgrounds and also use existing elements, if you for instance look at elements of the "Panzerspiel" and "Monaco Grand Prix". Maybe next to the hardware info there was also a design-book given to any licensees where they could just quickly learn about different techniques. Who knows. Stefan 253 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 9:50pm Subject: To Tempest: list of LV games stefanpiasecki Hi Matt, here is the list of LV-games I own. Maybe this helps to fill up your lists... 1 Crazy Gobbler 3 Robot Killer 5 Space Squadron 8 Alien Invaders 9 Space Mission 10 Missile War 11 Ocean Battle 12 Red Clash 15 Baseball 17 Breakaway 19 Capture 20 Brain Quiz 29 Spiders 31 Jump Bug 35 Route 16 37 Hobo Stefan 254 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:12pm Subject: Re: To Tempest: list of LV games tempest_2084 Yep I have those on my list. Ever notice that 21 through 28 and 32 trough 34 seem to be missing? I wonder what caused those huge gaps? Matt "Tempest" > > Hi Matt, > here is the list of LV-games I own. Maybe this helps to fill up your > lists... > 1 Crazy Gobbler > 3 Robot Killer > 5 Space Squadron > 8 Alien Invaders > 9 Space Mission > 10 Missile War > 11 Ocean Battle > 12 Red Clash > 15 Baseball > 17 Breakaway > 19 Capture > 20 Brain Quiz > 29 Spiders > 31 Jump Bug > 35 Route 16 > 37 Hobo > Stefan > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert reicher6@... Http://www.msu.edu/~reicher6/ Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 255 From: "billlagr" Date: Mon Apr 15, 2002 10:39pm Subject: Re: Screenshot similarities billlagr Compare Golf on the emulator and the screenshot...I would hazard a guess that Crazy Gobbler is out of whack too, compared to Nibbleman. Though its also a possibility that..errrmmm.."budgetary constraints" forced the programmers hands a little. Along the lines of "Produce the maximum games for minimum time and resources" --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > I will be glad when we can all see all of the carts for these > systems, for a number of reasons. One is, I am beginning to alter my > views towards the current emulator, quite a bit. It does not crash, > but compared to what I know from experience the screens are supposed > to look like... sorry, they're only about an 80% match sometimes. If > that, in a few cases; colors, graphics, all sorts of screwy stuff. Oh > well... just another "nobody cares about this system" type reality. > > But back to the point... if you compare screenshots between some of > the maze games, such as Cat Trax and Tanks a Lot and the Gobblers and > even Jungler, there are quite a few similarities. It looks, to be > honest, like they probably took the first maze game they had up and > running, and reused the code to make the others. Look at the mazes, > side by side -- even in a catalog screenshot, they're remarkably > alike in many ways. Much more alike than different!? > > I think I mentioned it, but "Doraemon" looked like a variant > of "Route 16" to me, once I'd given it a bit more thought. > > Weird, how much code they seemingly reused? I can understand it at > first... porting stuff from the Interton to the Arcadia. And then I > can even understand the necessity to do it again, when "legalizing" a > number of games. But geez... this is a bit extreme, guys! I guess the > only thing I can read out of this, is that (a) they never expected > guys like us to "see it all" and compare everything, and (b) their > constant time pressure apparently didn't allow much else to happen? > > -- Ward Shrake -- 256 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:19am Subject: Re: Screenshot similarities commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > Compare Golf on the emulator > and the screenshot...I would > hazard a guess that Crazy Gobbler > is out of whack too, compared to > Nibbleman. I used a DOS-based utility program I wrote some years ago, to check the number of byte differences in a variety of games. Crazy Gobbler and Nibblemen were alike in some ways, visually, but checked out as being about 50% different in terms of byte-by-byte code. This may or may not mean they were really all that different... if you simply shift everything back by one byte, you'll cause a nearly 100% mismatch. Just the fact that it showed up as 50% alike, shows there is definitely some reason to think they re-used code between them. Other programs checked out with something like 3800 bytes (out of 4096) different between the two versions I was checking. I saw very similar numbers, a lot, which is highly unusual in itself. If the two programs were coded differently, presumably from scratch, that sort of consistently inconsistent matching-up would be statistically odd, to say the least? You would expect random numbers, not similar ones? If you look at some of the game's internals, it is clear that the people that wrote the games used an assembler program of some kind. You can tell, because at the very end of various program's ROM image, there is the left-over remnants of someone's source code, that was burned into the final EPROM / ROM image of the game itself. (See American Football, 3D Soccer, and even Boxing.) The use of an assembler program to write their code implies many things. The most obvious, in terms of this discussion on re-using old code to write new games, is that they most likely had code modules all ready to go, which allowed them to cut-n-paste most of a game together, quickly. Fill in most of the game with pre-written modules, change some graphics, change some game play code, and call it one more game to add to your software library. This would explain all of the similar-looking maze games, the ability to quickly write many games (from Interton to Arcadia) at launch, the ability to quickly re-write them to comply with lawsuit threats, etc. All in all, this made them ahead of the curve, in some ways. They had a good shot at a large market segment, until Atari's lawsuits and stuff like the ColecoVision came onto the scene. It looks to me like there is a four-year cycle, from generation to generation, back in the 70's and 80's. That cycle didn't start to really stretch out until Nintendo and others purposely marketed their games around it. Signetics' or UA Limited's or whoevers' planning wasn't ridiculously bad... it just expected things to stay as they were, much longer than it did. Kind of like showing up late, for your own party. Oh well. > Though its also a possibility that.. > errrmmm.."budgetary constraints" forced > the programmers hands a little. Along > the lines of "Produce the maximum games > for minimum time and resources" I may as well drop this bomb now... I was going to wait, but I want to see what others think of this, and how far we can go with it, until we hit a (logical or factual) brick wall of some kind? In the Interton VC-4000 info that is in the files section -- the talk that happened years ago on Usenet -- there is reference to a maze game that had an interesting game play element. Quoting it: "By the way,it is astonishing,HOW BAD many of the Interton games play. E.g. there is the "Pac Man" variant "Monster Man",which has basically always only 1 single dot(an insect sprite) at each time in the maze. After the player collects it,the next one appears at a different location and so on and so on. (But at least the 4 bonus pills exists.) The Odyssey 2 "Munchkin" plays way better than this." Note the reference to the Odyssey 2 machine, which was made by the company Magnavox, which was (like Signetics) under Philip's business umbrella. The game "K.C. Munchkin" was one of Atari's first lawsuits, against North American Philips; Atari claimed the game was just a rip- off of Pac-Man. They tried to stop it from going into stores before the christmas shopping season of late 1981. They sort of succeeded. Note also that a game on the Interton console -- "Monster Maze" -- had a game play element that was used to some degree in an O2 game. (The things you were supposed to eat, moved around within the maze.) One of the results of the lawsuit was that "K.C. Munchkin" spawned a legalized version called "K.C.'s Krazy Chase". One of the game play elements of that game was a Dratapiller" ... a multi-segmented creature sort of like a giant catepiller, which moved through a maze that was similar to a Pac-Man type game. (Within the O2's limits.) Here's a link to the game vaults' emulator section, on ClassicGaming.com, which has the (pretty neat) Odyssey 2 emulator: http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/o2emu.shtml If you can, compare "K.C.'s Krazy Chase" to "Jungler" on the Arcadia 2001 console. Look in particular at the multi-segmented creature. I think they look almost identical? The intent certainly was, even if there are differences between the consoles they had to overcome. They look alike in some ways, and move alike in some ways. They are both in a maze. The game "Crazy Gobbler" only calls itself "Gobbler" on the screen, and that is a perfect amount of letters to spell "Pac- Man" if a person had wanted to do that. The parent company of Signetics got sued by Atari, for what another branch had done. In the same basic time period, you have a lot of things that look like they may have been connected, in some hidden way. Knowing that both Signetics and Magnavox shared a parent company, could the lawyers for Philips / Magnavox have shared "legalization tips" with Signetics / Philips? It certainly seems not only possible, but prudent. What parent company, having learned a painful lesson with one company it controlled, would not try to warn other branches? This may explain why the program on the Arcadia that was most likely going to be the pack-in game -- note that Cat Trax is #1 on some consoles and the 2k program size -- was perhaps renamed from "Pac- Man" to "Gobbler" to "Crazy Gobbler" during the NAP lawsuit period? But here's the big bomb, the one I hope is not a dud... What if the parent company also coordinated the sharing of code? What if the Magnavox Odyssey2 console's game program source code was also written in assembler? Even if it was for a totally different machine, an assembly listing would not be that insanely hard to port over? You would have distinct, labeled code modules, comments, etc., etc.. Which might also be another way to tie in past experiences that one of the branches had, and learned from. Ed Averett wrote quite a few of the Odyssey2 games... by himself. One man could not easily go head to head with both Atari and third party software developers... and yet they did give Atari a run for their money, in some ways. Enough to spur Atari to file lawsuits against Magnavox. Might Philips have learned from that experience in some way? Who knows. I have some info on Ed's experiences -- interviews with James Hague, of "Giant List of Classic Game Programmers" fame. I'll read them over carefully, soon. And what of the reference made in the Interton technical text that is up on the files section, in which someone claims that the 2650 chip was an all-in-one version of the PDP-8 central processing unit. For those that don't know computer history as well as console history, the PDP-8 was an older mainframe computer. This is interesting, to me, given the other facts we (think we) know. If the 2650 was in fact an off-shoot of an old but popular mainframe, and if the games for both the Interton and the Arcadia were written in assembly language, then could it not be possible that the games were written on a PDP-8 mainframe? If you had a mainframe -- older or not -- available that you were writing your source code on, cross-assembly from one game console to another would not be all that difficult, technically. Hmm. I suppose this means I have to go searching for assembly source code fragments at the ends of all of my Odyssey 2 game ROM images, too? Keep in mind that Atari's original arcade Pong game was based on just a visual viewing of someone else's Pong game... Magnavox's I think, but I do not want to say so for sure. If this was all substantially true, it would sort of be like a form of marketing revenge by Philips against Atari, for Atari's earlier market treachery, when they "liberated" the Pong game idea? Hmm. All of this is one of those things were I have to wonder if I am (a) "on TO something" or (b) just "ON something"? ;-) Perhaps we should be comparing all three game systems... not just the Interton VC-4000's games and the games for the Arcadia 2001, but also the games made by the Magnavox company, for their Odyssey2 console? Comments? Questions? Stunned silence? Hilarious laughter? -- Ward Shrake -- 257 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:51am Subject: Re: Screenshot similarities commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > Maybe you remember that referring to > the Palladium games I once said that > it looks as if there were at least 2 > different groups of game-developers, > using existing code and graphical > elements. I remember. It was a good observation, then and now. I am not trying to take credit for it... just stating it in a different way. Lots of things we are noticing lately, are tending towards a two-camp idea. Two or more, but at least two. > I would call them the Arcadia group > and the Palladium group although this > might not be true. I tend to think of it as a division between games written strictly by Signetics and UA Limited, myself. But there are definitely two very different styles of writing games, that much is very evident to all. Signetics, in my current view, wrote many of the earlier games for the Arcadia 2001 console group. Games which were in many cases just a straight port, or perhaps a slightly improved port of Interton games. "UA Limited" is still a mystery to me, but whoever they were, I blame them for most of the "new" games for the console. The hot arcade titles, which were supposed to be the big point that would make you want to run out and buy one of these consoles... before Atari began sueing everyone and their dog, over alleged copyright infringement. Has anyone researched the legal form of a "limited" company, from this time period, and presumably but not certainly, in Hong Kong? I say that because I am wondering if it was a company created as a sub- branch of Signetics, Magnavox, or some other off-shoot of Philips? I have to wonder if the company was perhaps created BY Philips, using the best programmers that used to work for Interton? Remember the alleged bankruptcy that Interton was going through at about this time period? And we know that Atari's lawsuits HAD to have affected the way that Philips / Magnavox / Signetics did business? What if "UA Limited" were owned or controlled by Philips or one of the other sub- branches of Philips? What if they were created, using the best coders that Interton once had available, on or around the time the Interton bankruptcy was going on? (An intentional "brain drain.) What if the whole purpose of having such a company in the first place, was to have an expendable sub-company that would be sued, instead of the big parent company being sued? If the company was set up in such a way that you could wipe them out with a lawsuit, without hurting Philips in any direct way, that would be a very prudent thing to have set up? Keep in mind that "UA Limited" apparently popped out of thin air, long before it was normal for third party software companies to exist at all? Activision was only a year or two old, as a company, when UA suddenly appeared, and started writing boatloads of games for a game console that had not even been launched yet. You would think this to be nonsense, if UA was an independent, third-party, with no real connection to Signetics or Philips? The simple fact that we know one coder worked on the Interton stuff, and then a year later on the Arcadia, seems to put a big dent in the 'independent third party' idea? The time period is too small, the console was not even ready to go out onto the market yet, and here is an aggressive third party, out of nowhere, writing and then re-writing all the hottest games for this console? Huh? Why would they do that? How could they do that? To do it at all, you would have had to have had INCREDIBLE access, right? > What is apparent is that most of the > Arcadia games use a dark or black > background and reuse many of the above > mentioned elements while the Palladium > games very often have white backgrounds > and also use existing elements, if you > for instance look at elements of the > "Panzerspiel" and "Monaco Grand Prix". Built into the 2637 are certain graphics that can be used to create simple structures... such as in the games that came out for the Palladium, as you mention. The emu author "PeT" wrote a 24-byte program called CharTest which I'll upload to the files section. It was intended to send these internal graphics to the screen, so he could improve his emulation efforts. (It is interesting, seeing that they had something akin to the the graphics symbols on the C64?) My take on the Palladium / Arcadia thing is that the Palladium was likely just one of the very earliest of the consoles, and it may have died out earlier, too. This would give it more of the early games by Signetics, and fewer of the later games by "UA Limited". Stefan (and others): would it be possible for you to open up all of the Palladium or Mr. Altus or PolyBrain carts that you have, and read me off the exact writing on the tops of the ROM chips? If we could get more date codes and/or manufacturing symbols, we could prove or disprove the idea that the Palladium consoles were among the first to have been made? (I am keeping a list of such things, on my web site.) > Maybe next to the hardware info there > was also a design-book given to any > licensees where they could just quickly > learn about different techniques. > Who knows. > Stefan We are all guessing, as best we can. What else can we do? -- Ward Shrake -- 258 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:29am Subject: UA and who they were .. was: Re: Screenshot similarities stefanpiasecki Ward, your thoughts are noteworthy and I guess that they are going into the right direction. It indeed is likely that a large company sets up a smaller entity as a shield against any lawsuits. But even if it turns out that the majority of those Interton developers later worked for UA, it might very well have also been the case that after Signetics published their tech-specs, that those developers jumped from one drowning vessel to the other (I hope that I can find out more about the developers of Interton and if there indeed was a crash in the interview with Interton). Already in these early years there were trade-shows held for the leisure entertainment industry. What if they just thought that they might be the right people for this new hardware and stormed right into Philip's booth? In 1993, when the Amiga faded in Europe, many developers moved to the Atari Jaguar "because the hardware is so similar" (which of course if sheer bullsh** but I can still hear many of these voices when long- term Amiga enthusiasts learned that the Jaguar carried a 68K processor). Although Atari was ultra-difficult I know some developers that would rather had their fingers chopped off then coding on a PC (of course these very same developers later never admitted that they ever believed in something aside the PC *sheesh*). In Spring 1994, when the Jaguar became "hardware of the year" I was attending the ECTS in London (Europe's E3) and our booth was not far from the Atari stand (great design btw). I remember that not only the yound&wild coders but also many respected developers showed up at Bill Rehbock to sign on his list of developers. At that time Atari didn't have much to offer but still people did everything to team up with them. If Philips indeed was behind UA and the Arcadia family, why did they treat this technology like a bastard that nobody wants? They had the G7000 and there would probably have been enough space next to this machine. From later experiences with the CDi we learned that Philips sticked to its creations and pumped money into them although nobody believed in them anymore (or bought them). >Stefan (and others): would it be possible for you to open up all of >the Palladium or Mr. Altus or PolyBrain carts that you have, and >read >me off the exact writing on the tops of the ROM chips? If we could >get more date codes and/or manufacturing symbols, we could prove or >disprove the idea that the Palladium consoles were among the first >to >have been made? (I am keeping a list of such things, on my web site.) I will do so on the weekend at the latest. I own all the games on your list. Does anybody else have some that are not on the list? I'd like to know what to look out for. Cheers Stefan 259 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:34am Subject: (Almost) complete Interton collection for sale... stefanpiasecki ...... but the price is insane.... http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1346528803 I just saw this on ebay and thought somebody might be interested. Have fun. Stefan 260 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:30am Subject: Magnavox connection: confirmed! commie_fan It looks like I've pulled another Ward... half of the Magnavox- related ideas I just discussed hours ago, are already 90% confirmed. I am doing even more research, and hope to have excellent news to post, soon-ish. I have an interview with Ed Averett, who was Magnavox's primary guy for writing software, on the Odyssey 2 console. It came from a guy I know. I just now sent off an e-mail, asking for permission to post it here. I explained we'd be happy to share any info we dig up, by taking this ball and running with it. My fingers are crossed!? You won't believe it, when you read it? In the current discussion context, it answers a lot of questions. Basically, the Magnavox set the stage, and the Arcadia 2001 was the follow-up. Not technically speaking, but in terms of overall concept. I had the right idea, sort of, when I wondered if Philips was not some kind of a go-between, applying things learned at Magnavox over in the Signetics part of the Philips organization. They took the best business ideas, and applied them. And also the hard lessons learned. According to Averett, Philips was not good at all, in supporting the Odyssey 2 console or its library, until the game "K.C. Munchkin" came out and kicked butt in the marketplace. That woke Philips up to the potential that was always apparent (to others) in the gaming market. At one point, when the Magnavox console was only six months old, and they had problems thinking up what games to make, etc., the order came down from Philips to sell off all inventory, and to get out of the game business. Cooler heads prevailed, but just barely. The whole foundation of the Magnavox efforts was really to sell the chips inside it. Intel made those chips, and hoped to sell consoles and carts that used their parts; same as Signetics did, later on. It was the Magnavox engineers that had stumbled, early on. It was a guy from Intel that crossed over, to write games for the console... and I do mean one single guy. That's all the coding support the O2 had. But Philips' apparently pathetic support of the marketing effort of the Odyssey 2 console under-whelmed chip-maker Intel, who 'passed' when the chance came up to make a next generation console. They had no faith in Philips, apparently, and being an outside company, did not feel they had to do what Philips wanted them to do. They said no. But Signetics was willing to go for it -- probably because Philips owned or controlled them -- so that explains where Signetics got the idea of pushing this new console, the way that they had done it. The idea had come originally from Ed Averett... make cool games, and the world will be forced to buy the chips and raw parts to play them on. Read up on the Odyssey 2 a little bit... you will see that although they didn't sell many units in the United States, they kicked butt in other parts of the world. That sort of helps to explain where the Philips-run company Signetics had the idea of multiple marketing areas, all over the globe. By the way... Yes, the Odyssey 2 games were written in assembly language. Ed said so in his interview, and the game "Catch the Ball / Noughts and Crosses" has a bit of assembly source code visible inside its ROM. Yes, the program modules were definitely recycled. Ed said about 60% of what went into one game, went into the next, as well. (Scoring and so on.) Now I'm even more convinced that "UA Limited" was NOT a seperate entity in the sense that they were not connected in any way to the Philips organization. It is much more likely, in my opinion, that they were set up as a pseudo-separate entity, but were really an arm of the Philips organization, either directly or through Signetics in some way. I say this because of the reasons I mentioned before, but also because it is now clear that Philips, having seen what one guy could accomplish all by himself -- making "K.C. Munchkin" which made them quite a bit of money, legal problems aside -- must have had the foresight to realize their past mistakes in that area? If Signetics was going to sell hardware parts, someone would HAVE to write all sorts of cool new games for the hardware, or no one would buy it. Interesting... verrryyyyy interesting. :-) More and more of this is all falling into place now. And personally, I still think we'd be groping in the dark, if it were not for the sharing of information between "Interton guys" and "Arcadia guys". -- Ward "on a roll now" Shrake 261 From: slapdash Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 7:32am Subject: Re: Re: Screenshot similarities slapdash26 On Mon, 15 Apr 2002, commie_fan wrote: [...a lot of stuff!] > Perhaps we should be comparing all three game systems... not just the > Interton VC-4000's games and the games for the Arcadia 2001, but also > the games made by the Magnavox company, for their Odyssey2 console? I don't think the O2 need be considered for the most part, other than maybe a quick visual inspecition of games, which I think will show that there is no real similarities... I base this on the facts that the O2 used a different processor (8048 I think) and also that development, unlike the Interton/etc & Arcadia/ etc, was done here in the US, not overseas. Keep in mind that Philips and Magnavox weren't quite as closely related in the 80s as now, and I think it more likely that Philips licensed the Magnavox stuff (O2 in this case) rather than directed Magnavox to do it. But possibly someone could ask Ed? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 262 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 7:23am Subject: RE: (Almost) complete Interton collection for sale... tempest_2084 Is there an NTSC version of the Interton console? I've always wanted one but I can't play PAL games on my TV. Tempest -----Original Message----- From: stefanpiasecki [mailto:stefanpiasecki@...] Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 3:35 PM To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] (Almost) complete Interton collection for sale... ...... but the price is insane.... http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1346528803 I just saw this on ebay and thought somebody might be interested. Have fun. Stefan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 263 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:51am Subject: UA and who they were .. was: Re: Screenshot similarities commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > If Philips indeed was behind UA and > the Arcadia family, why did they > treat this technology like a bastard > that nobody wants? They had the G7000 > and there would probably have been > enough space next to this machine. As I said, I have information that you do not. As I said, I do not have permission to post it all here. I did ask for permission. If he says yes, the interview with Ed Averett himself will answer that and likely any other question you (and Russ) have on this subject. If he says no, I will post certain quotes from it. Patience, guys. (I'm referring to "Halycon Days" by James Hague of "Giant List" fame.) > From later experiences with the CDi > we learned that Philips sticked to > its creations and pumped money into > them although nobody believed in them > anymore (or bought them). The interview answers that. Patience. And no offense, but that's a very big assumption. Multiple hardware consoles came and went, and the industry changed radically. What any company did three or more hardware generations later, is a very tenous thing to try to apply to something that happened at the infancy of video gaming? That scenario assumes a level of stability in the industry that I don't think well-known history supports. -- Ward Shrake -- 264 From: "slydc" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:46pm Subject: Fwd: Re: screen snaps slydc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > What I ought to do is slap the (bleep) out of you, for selling > me the console. Do you SEE all this work you caused me, Sly? ;-) > > Seriously... for you, Sly? Yeah, I would make you a deal. E-mail me > about it. (I have two sitting here that are 90% completed now. Huh ?? Come to the PhillyClassic and slap me silly, it will be my pleasure! LOL!!!! =) And four years ago, you were so eager to take on the Arcadia 2001 FAQ since you didn't had anymore informations to add to your Commodore VIC-20 FAQ, well you did ask for it! But seriously, i'm very glad that your the maintainer of the Arcadia 2001 FAQ, i couldn't ask for a better person than you! =) And if anyone gives you hell about doing anything related to the FAQ and the DP section, there just simply not WARD-Y of your talent. --- Sly DC --- (Waiting at the Philly to get my ass kicked...LOL!!) 265 From: "slydc" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:48pm Subject: Re: screen snaps slydc Glad i could help in any ways Bill. Keep up the great work on your web site! --- Sly DC --- 266 From: "slydc" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 1:52pm Subject: Re: (Almost) complete Interton collection for sale... slydc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > Is there an NTSC version of the Interton console? I've always wanted one > but I can't play PAL games on my TV. > > Tempest Hi Matt, As far as i know, there isn't any NTSC version of the Interton VC 4000 and neither any NTSC clones as well. BUT, there is a way to play them, just try to get an old B/W TV with a vertical knob ajustement. You won't play in color but at least you'll be able to play. --- Sly DC --- 267 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 2:36pm Subject: I'll just be sitting here typing, for awhile commie_fan Sly DC and others who might wonder: Just for the record, I am far too poor to be able to go to PhillyClassic. Sorry. And unless something radically changes, CGE and everything else is "out"... just can't do it, due to a laughably bad money situation. It's totally impossible. The reason I have all this "free time" on my hands is that I'm an actor, and there is no work to be had in Hollywood lately. But that means I have to scrounge up a living the best I can, week to week and month to month. Till something big changes, a plane ticket may as well be a trip to Mars. (Even bicycle rental is out of my budget!) Not whining or anything... just explaining things as they are. -- Ward "starving artist" Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" > wrote: > > > What I ought to do is slap the (bleep) out of you, for selling > > me the console. Do you SEE all this work you caused me, Sly? ;-) > > > > Seriously... for you, Sly? Yeah, I would make you a deal. E-mail me > > about it. (I have two sitting here that are 90% completed now. > > > Huh ?? Come to the PhillyClassic and slap me silly, it will be my > pleasure! LOL!!!! =) > > And four years ago, you were so eager to take on the Arcadia 2001 FAQ > since you didn't had anymore informations to add to your Commodore > VIC-20 FAQ, well you did ask for it! > > But seriously, i'm very glad that your the maintainer of the Arcadia > 2001 FAQ, i couldn't ask for a better person than you! =) And if > anyone gives you hell about doing anything related to the FAQ and the > DP section, there just simply not WARD-Y of your talent. > > --- Sly DC --- > (Waiting at the Philly to get my ass kicked...LOL!!) 268 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 3:55pm Subject: Re: (Almost) complete Interton collection for sale... stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > Is there an NTSC version of the Interton console? I've always wanted one > but I can't play PAL games on my TV. > > Tempest Good morning, I am not sure. But what you can probably do is to buy a TV card for your PC that handles PAL/NTSC input. Many cards in Europe do this. This could be a solution for the problem. Stefan 269 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:14pm Subject: O2 dieterk_ccc Sorry for my silence but I am extremely busy in my job at the moment ... I am selling wintergardens/sunhouses and the time between March and July is the most busiest here ... Regarding Ed Averett: Would be great if Ward would get the permission to post the interview with Ed Averett here. In fact I am way more a Videopac guy than I am an Interton guy. The G7000 was my first console back in 1982 and it is still my favorite system. A dutch collector and myself did a lot of archaeology on this system last fall and winter. We found two companies that were producing games for the Videopac system back in the 80s ... at least in Europe. He found a company that wrote Videopac conversions for Parker. Only 4 Parker games were released for the Videopac: Frogger, Q*Bert, Super Cobra and Popeye. But there was more! Tutankham was already finished, even the box + instructions for the Videopac system were done - unfortunately just at the time when Parker decided to quit the video game market. And ... a Star Wars game and Spiderman were in different stages of development. Unfortunately none of these games have been found yet. I found the company called GST Video which wrote some of the best, very late games for this system, some of them unreleased, but discovered. One of their released games is Norseman for example, one of the great unreleased games was Interpol which was released by a french collector in 2000 as Videopac 61. I don't think that Ed Averett knows much about the "late" Videopac scene here in Europe but it will be interesting to find out more about the earlier years of this system and I am sure we would find some very nice connections between the early US years and the late European years of the O2/Videopac system. And who knows which connections we would find between O2/Videopac, Interton VC-4000 and Arcadia ... Cheers, Dieter 270 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 5:20pm Subject: Re: (Almost) complete Interton collection for sale... dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > ...... but the price is insane.... > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1346528803 > > I just saw this on ebay and thought somebody might be interested. > Have fun. > Stefan It is indeed a very nice collection. If anyone of you guys is interested in it: In my opinion a fair price for the whole collection would be around $250, maximum $300. So maybe just wait if it gets a bid (I don't think so) and offer the guy $250 - $300 then. Just my 2 cents ... Cheers, Dieter 271 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 6:54am Subject: Arcadia Programmed in Assembly atrionfo I originally wrote this message to Ward and he asked me to rephrase it so that he could answer this question publicly for the whole group. Keep in mind while you are reading this that I have NOT played the Arcadia-- these are observations made from reading this group everyday and looking at the ROM images that Ward recommended to see for glimpses of source game code. First, why wonder if Arcadia games were programmed in assembly? The only other choice would be to hand-assemble code (a very time consuming process). Hand-assembly happens (it's a good place to start when disassembling), but usually only when end users get the technology and don't have the resources to invest in a system to program a console. Cross-assemblers have been around for a VERY long time (since the early sixties- at least), and one was probably used on some mini-computer to create the Arcadia executable binary files that would eventually be burned to ROM. I have to question how source code could possibly get into the ROM. I didn't believe it until I saw it, but here is an example of the ASCII in American football from $162E to the end of file: (Note: I did NOT line-up the columns-- this comes straight out of the file, perfect like this). COLLISION INFO. POT2 EQU UVI+126 POTENTIOMETER 2 INPUT. POT1 EQU UVI+127 POTENTIOMETER 1 INPUT. * RAM EQUATES RCE2 EQU H'1A00' REFRESH RAM(LINES 14-24). RCE1 EQU H'1800' MAIN DISPLAY RAM(LINES 1-13). GFLG EQU RCE1+H'D0' 1 BYTE(GAME FLAG). ASND EQU RCE1+H'D1' 2 BYTES(ADDR OF NOTE STRING). STCT EQU RCE1+H'D3' 1 BYTE(SOUND FRAME COUNT). VCNT EQU RCE1+H'D4' 1 BYTE(CURRENT FRAME COUNT). * How did this source-code get into the ROM? An assembler program translates mnemonics into machine code, that's it-- there's a byte for byte correlation. In other words, this could not have happened by accident. The code must have been put there on purpose-- but why not the use the standard $FF (or even $00) characters to fill the space? There is a LOT of empty space in some of these ROMS (look at 3D-Soccer- for example). When Ward eventually posts the Arcadia ROM example written by the emulator author, someone here should hand-disassemble it (you just need to find the op-code sheet). This will answer part of the memory-map questions (as far as getting characters onto the screen). As an added bonus (of sorts), we all have some equate information from the American Football cartridge. Joy. Adam Trionfo 272 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 5:58am Subject: UA and who they were .. was: Re: Screenshot similarities commie_fan Upon re-reading my earlier comments, they sound pretty rude. Sorry, Stefan. I'm not trying to be grouchy or mean... just in a hurry to get my guide section done on time. All this stuff bouncing around in my head takes all of my concentration, and I'm not good at thinking about other's feelings when I'm really "in the zone" mentally. Stefan's comments were worthy of consideration. I have not ruled out anything at this point... beyond what the Ed Averett interview rules out for us all, and which you guys have only seen a glimpse of, now. I am still torn regarding "UA Limited". Lots of things do not add up well... some new thoughts are coming up, confusing things worse, as I am writing my thoughts down on certain games for the guide. I guess my best bet is to just shut up and think, for awhile. Lots to think about, and very little time to do it, so back to typing, for me.... -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > wrote: > (snip) > > If Philips indeed was behind UA and > > the Arcadia family, why did they > > treat this technology like a bastard > > that nobody wants? They had the G7000 > > and there would probably have been > > enough space next to this machine. > > > As I said, I have information that you do not. As I said, I do not > have permission to post it all here. I did ask for permission. If he > says yes, the interview with Ed Averett himself will answer that and > likely any other question you (and Russ) have on this subject. If he > says no, I will post certain quotes from it. Patience, guys. (I'm > referring to "Halycon Days" by James Hague of "Giant List" fame.) > > > > From later experiences with the CDi > > we learned that Philips sticked to > > its creations and pumped money into > > them although nobody believed in them > > anymore (or bought them). > > > The interview answers that. Patience. > > And no offense, but that's a very big assumption. Multiple hardware > consoles came and went, and the industry changed radically. What any > company did three or more hardware generations later, is a very > tenous thing to try to apply to something that happened at the > infancy of video gaming? That scenario assumes a level of stability > in the industry that I don't think well-known history supports. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 273 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:29pm Subject: Re: I'll just be sitting here typing, for awhile billlagr ohh mannnnn....we dont evan have anything vaguely like the PhillyClassic here!!!! We have the Melbourne PC Show once a year, thats about it. (mmmm....maybe I could fit floaters to the motorbike...) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Sly DC and others who might wonder: Just for the record, I am far too > poor to be able to go to PhillyClassic. Sorry. And unless something > radically changes, CGE and everything else is "out"... just can't do > it, due to a laughably bad money situation. It's totally impossible. > > The reason I have all this "free time" on my hands is that I'm an > actor, and there is no work to be had in Hollywood lately. But that > means I have to scrounge up a living the best I can, week to week and > month to month. Till something big changes, a plane ticket may as > well be a trip to Mars. (Even bicycle rental is out of my budget!) > > Not whining or anything... just explaining things as they are. > > -- Ward "starving artist" Shrake -- > > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" > > wrote: > > > > > What I ought to do is slap the (bleep) out of you, for selling > > > me the console. Do you SEE all this work you caused me, Sly? ;- ) > > > > > > Seriously... for you, Sly? Yeah, I would make you a deal. E- mail > me > > > about it. (I have two sitting here that are 90% completed now. > > > > > > Huh ?? Come to the PhillyClassic and slap me silly, it will be my > > pleasure! LOL!!!! =) > > > > And four years ago, you were so eager to take on the Arcadia 2001 > FAQ > > since you didn't had anymore informations to add to your Commodore > > VIC-20 FAQ, well you did ask for it! > > > > But seriously, i'm very glad that your the maintainer of the > Arcadia > > 2001 FAQ, i couldn't ask for a better person than you! =) And if > > anyone gives you hell about doing anything related to the FAQ and > the > > DP section, there just simply not WARD-Y of your talent. > > > > --- Sly DC --- > > (Waiting at the Philly to get my ass kicked...LOL!!) 274 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:22pm Subject: Re: Screenshot similarities billlagr Couple of things - While looking for a 2650 disassembler, I came across an assembler. Its self-extracting ARJ file, nothing unusual there. But when you extract it, have a look at the message displayed - (see below) In itself it doesnt really show much, except that Philips at least made some effort at support. bout the PDP-8 - Wasnt that a DEC beastie? If thats so..then how would that tie in with Philips/Signetics? (Rhetorical Question - Not expecting a straight answer there :) Did Philips/Signetics manufacture parts for DEC maybe? --- &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#960= 0;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#96= 00;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9= 600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#= 9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&= #9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;= &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#= 9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; = &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#960= 0;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;= &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; = &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#960= 0;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#96= 00;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#96= 00;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#= 9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#96= 00;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#96= 00;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#= 9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;= &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#960= 0;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#96= 00;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9= 600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#= 9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&= #9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;= &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; PHILIPS SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE ARISING FROM THE USE OF ITS LIBRARIES, SOFTWARE OR THIS BBS. "{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"= {"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{ "{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{ PHILIPS SEMICONDUCTORS BBS NET : Sunnyvale MCO Computer Bulletin Board : +1 408 991-2406 (max. 2400 baud) Inside USA : 800 451-6644 (max. 2400 baud) Sunnyvale ROM Code bulletin board : +1 408 991-3459 (max. 2400 baud) PHIBBS automatic node : +31 40 721102 (node 1 or 2) PHIBBS node 1 : +31 40 722142 (max. 14400 baud) PHIBBS node 2 : +31 40 722110 (max. 14400 baud) HELPDESK PHIBBS : +31 40 722749 (9.00-16.00 CET) In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > Compare Golf on the emulator > > and the screenshot...I would > > hazard a guess that Crazy Gobbler > > is out of whack too, compared to > > Nibbleman. > > > I used a DOS-based utility program I wrote some years ago, to check > the number of byte differences in a variety of games. Crazy Gobbler > and Nibblemen were alike in some ways, visually, but checked out as > being about 50% different in terms of byte-by-byte code. This may or > may not mean they were really all that different... if you simply > shift everything back by one byte, you'll cause a nearly 100% > mismatch. Just the fact that it showed up as 50% alike, shows there > is definitely some reason to think they re-used code between them. > > Other programs checked out with something like 3800 bytes (out of > 4096) different between the two versions I was checking. I saw very > similar numbers, a lot, which is highly unusual in itself. If the two > programs were coded differently, presumably from scratch, that sort > of consistently inconsistent matching-up would be statistically odd, > to say the least? You would expect random numbers, not similar ones? > > If you look at some of the game's internals, it is clear that the > people that wrote the games used an assembler program of some kind. > You can tell, because at the very end of various program's ROM image, > there is the left-over remnants of someone's source code, that was > burned into the final EPROM / ROM image of the game itself. (See > American Football, 3D Soccer, and even Boxing.) > > The use of an assembler program to write their code implies many > things. The most obvious, in terms of this discussion on re-using old > code to write new games, is that they most likely had code modules > all ready to go, which allowed them to cut-n-paste most of a game > together, quickly. Fill in most of the game with pre-written modules, > change some graphics, change some game play code, and call it one > more game to add to your software library. > > This would explain all of the similar-looking maze games, the ability > to quickly write many games (from Interton to Arcadia) at launch, the > ability to quickly re-write them to comply with lawsuit threats, etc. > > All in all, this made them ahead of the curve, in some ways. They had > a good shot at a large market segment, until Atari's lawsuits and > stuff like the ColecoVision came onto the scene. It looks to me like > there is a four-year cycle, from generation to generation, back in > the 70's and 80's. That cycle didn't start to really stretch out > until Nintendo and others purposely marketed their games around it. > > Signetics' or UA Limited's or whoevers' planning wasn't ridiculously > bad... it just expected things to stay as they were, much longer than > it did. Kind of like showing up late, for your own party. Oh well. > > > > Though its also a possibility that.. > > errrmmm.."budgetary constraints" forced > > the programmers hands a little. Along > > the lines of "Produce the maximum games > > for minimum time and resources" > > > I may as well drop this bomb now... I was going to wait, but I want > to see what others think of this, and how far we can go with it, > until we hit a (logical or factual) brick wall of some kind? > > In the Interton VC-4000 info that is in the files section -- the talk > that happened years ago on Usenet -- there is reference to a maze > game that had an interesting game play element. > > Quoting it: "By the way,it is astonishing,HOW BAD many of the > Interton games play. E.g. there is the "Pac Man" variant "Monster > Man",which has basically always only 1 single dot(an insect sprite) > at each time in the maze. After the player collects it,the next one > appears at a different location and so on and so on. (But at least > the 4 bonus pills exists.) The Odyssey 2 "Munchkin" plays way > better than this." > > Note the reference to the Odyssey 2 machine, which was made by the > company Magnavox, which was (like Signetics) under Philip's business > umbrella. The game "K.C. Munchkin" was one of Atari's first lawsuits, > against North American Philips; Atari claimed the game was just a rip- > off of Pac-Man. They tried to stop it from going into stores before > the christmas shopping season of late 1981. They sort of succeeded. > > Note also that a game on the Interton console -- "Monster Maze" -- > had a game play element that was used to some degree in an O2 game. > (The things you were supposed to eat, moved around within the maze.) > > One of the results of the lawsuit was that "K.C. Munchkin" spawned a > legalized version called "K.C.'s Krazy Chase". One of the game play > elements of that game was a Dratapiller" ... a multi-segmented > creature sort of like a giant catepiller, which moved through a maze > that was similar to a Pac-Man type game. (Within the O2's limits.) > > Here's a link to the game vaults' emulator section, on > ClassicGaming.com, which has the (pretty neat) Odyssey 2 emulator: > > http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/o2emu.shtml > > If you can, compare "K.C.'s Krazy Chase" to "Jungler" on the Arcadia > 2001 console. Look in particular at the multi-segmented creature. I > think they look almost identical? The intent certainly was, even if > there are differences between the consoles they had to overcome. > > They look alike in some ways, and move alike in some ways. They are > both in a maze. The game "Crazy Gobbler" only calls itself "Gobbler" > on the screen, and that is a perfect amount of letters to spell "Pac- > Man" if a person had wanted to do that. The parent company of > Signetics got sued by Atari, for what another branch had done. > > In the same basic time period, you have a lot of things that look > like they may have been connected, in some hidden way. Knowing that > both Signetics and Magnavox shared a parent company, could the > lawyers for Philips / Magnavox have shared "legalization tips" with > Signetics / Philips? It certainly seems not only possible, but > prudent. What parent company, having learned a painful lesson with > one company it controlled, would not try to warn other branches? > > This may explain why the program on the Arcadia that was most likely > going to be the pack-in game -- note that Cat Trax is #1 on some > consoles and the 2k program size -- was perhaps renamed from "Pac- > Man" to "Gobbler" to "Crazy Gobbler" during the NAP lawsuit period? > > But here's the big bomb, the one I hope is not a dud... > > What if the parent company also coordinated the sharing of code? What > if the Magnavox Odyssey2 console's game program source code was also > written in assembler? Even if it was for a totally different machine, > an assembly listing would not be that insanely hard to port over? You > would have distinct, labeled code modules, comments, etc., etc.. > > Which might also be another way to tie in past experiences that one > of the branches had, and learned from. Ed Averett wrote quite a few > of the Odyssey2 games... by himself. One man could not easily go head > to head with both Atari and third party software developers... and > yet they did give Atari a run for their money, in some ways. Enough > to spur Atari to file lawsuits against Magnavox. Might Philips have > learned from that experience in some way? Who knows. I have some info > on Ed's experiences -- interviews with James Hague, of "Giant List of > Classic Game Programmers" fame. I'll read them over carefully, soon. > > And what of the reference made in the Interton technical text that is > up on the files section, in which someone claims that the 2650 chip > was an all-in-one version of the PDP-8 central processing unit. For > those that don't know computer history as well as console history, > the PDP-8 was an older mainframe computer. This is interesting, to > me, given the other facts we (think we) know. If the 2650 was in fact > an off-shoot of an old but popular mainframe, and if the games for > both the Interton and the Arcadia were written in assembly language, > then could it not be possible that the games were written on a PDP- 8 > mainframe? If you had a mainframe -- older or not -- available that > you were writing your source code on, cross-assembly from one game > console to another would not be all that difficult, technically. Hmm. > I suppose this means I have to go searching for assembly source code > fragments at the ends of all of my Odyssey 2 game ROM images, too? > > Keep in mind that Atari's original arcade Pong game was based on just > a visual viewing of someone else's Pong game... Magnavox's I think, > but I do not want to say so for sure. > > If this was all substantially true, it would sort of be like a form > of marketing revenge by Philips against Atari, for Atari's earlier > market treachery, when they "liberated" the Pong game idea? Hmm. > > All of this is one of those things were I have to wonder if I am > (a) "on TO something" or (b) just "ON something"? ;-) > > Perhaps we should be comparing all three game systems... not just the > Interton VC-4000's games and the games for the Arcadia 2001, but also > the games made by the Magnavox company, for their Odyssey2 console? > > Comments? Questions? Stunned silence? Hilarious laughter? > > -- Ward Shrake -- 275 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:08pm Subject: UA and who they were .. was: Re: Screenshot similarities billlagr Just regarding Ward's ideas about UA... Its not too much of a stretch to consider that maybe they were an offshoot of Philips/Signetics, one other thing is that maybe UA was formed not as a "pigeon" to take any possible legal problems, but if they converted software for the Atari, maybe early on in the piece they were formed to be a "serious" game producing company? 276 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:13pm Subject: Hanimex billlagr I contacted Hanimex Australia/New Zealand, this is what they had to say... Hello Bill, Thank you for contacting Hanimex, I apologise for the delay in responding. Believe it or not your enquiry is less odd than some I receive! I have had a lot of trouble tracking information down on this model. Unfortunately due to the age of the unit I don't have any literature at all anymore. I would say that the Hanimex model was probably manufatured by Emerson and re-badged as a Hanimex unit. I copied this information (below) from a website, there are some dedicated game fans out there! I am sorry, but this is all I managed to come across. Good luck and best regards, Tiia Burnley Internet help desk Player 3 Stage 5: Last Hurrah With total combined game sales of approx. $950 million for 1982, it's no wonder companies are still anxious to get onboard the console gravy train. Atari makes up 2/3 of the market, but it doesn't stop other companies from trying...or Atari from stumbling. Vision of Obscurity (Embedded image moved to file: pic05963.gif)Located in videogame development hotbed Parsippany, New Jersey, Emerson Electronics is a manufacturer of low-rent electronic equipment like televisions, VCRs, (Embedded image moved to file: pic22273.gif) (Embedded image moved to file: pic23226.gif) radios and microwaves. In 1982 they debut the Arcadia 2001, retailing for around 100 dollars US. Inside its compact cabinet is an 8-bit 3.58 MHz Signetics 2650 CPU, powering a nine colour video display allowing four moving sprites onscreen at any one time. It sports a pretty amazing 28K of RAM, ranking just behind the 48K of the ColecoVision for most RAM of the pre-crash systems. Its graphics capability is better than the Atari VCS, but only on par with the Intellivision, itself already a two years old system. The sound capability is a piddly one channel. The Arcadia's controls are a clever innovation on the Intellivision; they feature control discs into which plastic sticks can be screwed for that Atari controller feeling. They also ape Mattel and Coleco's consoles by having a 12 button keypad for use with game overlays, along with two fire buttons. There is space on the top cover to store the controllers when not in use, although no place to put the cords. 35 carts are eventually produced for the system, in two different size formats, with names like Tanks A Lot, Baseball, Crazy Gobbler and Space Attack. Unfortunately, it appears that most of that 28K of available system memory goes to waste: no game uses more than 8K of it. The Arcadia is considered the first portable videogame system not only for its diminutive size, but also for the fact it has the capability to run off any 12V DC power supply, like a car battery. It goes under a number of aliases world-wide; in Canada it's known as the Leisure-Vision, Germany the Hanimex HMG-2650 and Tele-Fever, Italy the Leonardo and in New Zealand it carries the moniker Video Master. Its release comes the same year as the graphics powerhouse ColecoVision, and the poor Arcadia is immediately relegated to the fringe, failing to make even a minor dent before the market falls apart in 1983-84. Its most lasting legacy probably results from the legal tussle Emerson engages in with third-party manufacturer Arcadia, makers of the Supercharger VCS enhancer, over their name. Arcadia is eventually renamed Starpath, and is eventually folded into Epyx. 277 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:10pm Subject: Re: Arcadia Programmed in Assembly commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I originally wrote this message to Ward > and he asked me to rephrase it so that > he could answer this question publicly > for the whole group. Keep in mind while > you are reading this that I have NOT > played the Arcadia-- these are > observations made from reading this > group everyday and looking at the > ROM images that Ward recommended to > see for glimpses of source game code. Don't forget "3D Soccer" either... but the Football one is better in some ways. They're both intriguing, at least in ultra-nerdy terms. And here is something that none of you "called me on" so far... why does "Funky Fish" have its secret message in the code, not once but twice? If your noodles are not already cooked, give that a look. :-) > First, why wonder if Arcadia games > were programmed in assembly? The only > other choice would be to hand-assemble > code (a very time consuming process). For my answer to that, see the "Story of Mel, a Real Programmer". I put a link to it up on bookmarks section, under humor, but I don't see it as a "funny ha-ha" story... it gives me nostalgic fuzzies. I guess I'm just an old so-and-so for admitting this kind of stuff, but I still fondly remember Apple II+ software being sold on hooks in ziplock baggies. I once got in mild trouble in the USAF, during tech school training, for having "(bleep) you" written on something in binary. There is definitely part of me that remembers my '83 to '85 Commodore 64 programming days, and sighs fondly at the memories. (I will probably post two other humorous stories, or link to them.) > Hand-assembly happens (it's a good > place to start when disassembling), but > usually only when end users get the > technology and don't have the resources > to invest in a system to program a > console. Cross-assemblers have been > around for a VERY long time (since the > early sixties- at least), and one was > probably used on some mini-computer to > create the Arcadia executable binary > files that would eventually be burned > to ROM. Two issues of note: Adam seems to assume only one group of people wrote code for the Arcadia, and that they were company-insider guys, with company-insider levels of support. My reading of the interview with Ed Averett leads me to believe Philips was still thinking much like a dinosaur... the lateness of the (1k of RAM) Arcadia's arrival on the game market, just in time to compete with 48k and 64k RAM systems, shows that while they started to learn from Magnavox' prior experiences, that leopards cannot change their spots overnight. Some level of corporate stupidity, internally, is Ward's best assumption. (It is possible that's just my personal bias towards cynicism, etc.) Second, what I told Adam in e-mail is that while his answer above is valid in some ways, I consider it to also be partially off-topic or irrelevant to this discussion, in some ways. I said that powered, heavier-than-air flight has been commonplace for one hundred years, and that the principles behind it are well understood by laymen. But that still does not put an airplane in my driveway. Even if it did, it would not necessarily come with technical support from the people that made it. Money, access, and support are far too big to assume! I do not want to assume they had this stuff, just because it was possible. I want solid proof, or at least a fair amount of circumstantial evidence, to push things towards either (a) UA Limited being a totally seperate third-party with no insider access, or (b) UA Limited being a shell of some sort, that was essentially just an off-shoot of Philips. A number of other possibilities exist; I'm trying to eliminate some. I am not knocking Adam's ideas... as a group, we are all finding flaws in each other's logic, and in our supporting facts. If I'm full of something, I expect to be "called on it". Just do so logically and clearly, so we can all learn from the experience in some way. > I have to question how source code > could possibly get into the ROM. I > didn't believe it until I saw it, Which is exactly what I'm preaching about, all the time! I'm glad it applies to me too, in you guy's eyes! (Keep me working and honest!) > but here is an example of the ASCII in > American football from $162E to the end > of file: (Note: I did NOT line-up > the columns-- this comes straight out > of the file, perfect like this). > > COLLISION INFO. > POT2 EQU UVI+126 POTENTIOMETER 2 INPUT. > POT1 EQU UVI+127 POTENTIOMETER 1 INPUT. > * RAM EQUATES > RCE2 EQU H'1A00' REFRESH RAM(LINES 14-24). > RCE1 EQU H'1800' MAIN DISPLAY RAM(LINES 1-13). > GFLG EQU RCE1+H'D0' 1 BYTE(GAME FLAG). > ASND EQU RCE1+H'D1' 2 BYTES(ADDR OF NOTE STRING). > STCT EQU RCE1+H'D3' 1 BYTE(SOUND FRAME COUNT). > VCNT EQU RCE1+H'D4' 1 BYTE(CURRENT FRAME COUNT). > * See, told ya. I'm human, but I'm not senile just yet. :-) > How did this source-code get into the > ROM? An assembler program translates > mnemonics into machine code, that's it > -- there's a byte for byte correlation. > In other words, this could not have > happened by accident. The code must have > been put there on purpose-- but why not > the use the standard $FF (or even $00) > characters to fill the space? I'm going to give the ultra-short answer for now... nothing done by any computer is an accident. But this is ENTIRELY commonplace; most home computers do NOT truly erase the contents of their re-usable memory storage areas. They just give you the appearance that they do. (I am less certain about mini-computers and mainframes, however?) If you load a two-kilobyte program into a typical 1980's style home computer, then type "NEW" and load a one-kilobyte program, what you end up with is the full one-kilobyte program, then the upper half of the two-kilobyte program. Disk sectors work the same way; if you load 256 bytes onto a disk sector, mark the block as available or empty space, and then load just 128 bytes into that same sector, the upper half of the first code section remains there, minus perhaps a very few bytes. In both cases, there is an "end of file" marker placed at the end of the most recent data stored. What is left over in that area is considered to be irrelevant; it is whatever was loaded last. Most programs will see the end of file marker, and stop looking. But if you go in and look more objectively, with a hex memory editor or a disk sector editor, lo and behold, there are sometimes treasures galore to be found. (Well, at least a few interesting snippets.) To find out just what a hopeless nerd I really am (as if this board was not proof enough), then check out this link... http://classicgaming.com/vic20/texts/rundisks.htm It is some of my older C64 programs, generally written in the mid-to- late 1980's, and sold to RUN magazine in the early 1990's. Notice the "Pack Rat 64" program in particular. This took advantage of the idea above, to find all sorts of neat things hidden on C64 disks. In a computer club I was in, for example, we had a mild competition to see who could run up the highest game scores, on games we'd all just bought. (Ahem.) We'd come back in a week or two, all with high if not insane scores. One guy went on BBS sites, and got game tips. Another would video tape the games output, play it back in slow-motion and analyze patterns. Me? I just found and edited the high score files! > There is a LOT of empty space in some > of these ROMS (look at 3D-Soccer- for > example). Ah, music to my ears. I've started a few of you on a very slippery slope. You're off exploring on your own now, not taking my word for things, anymore. Fabulous; I could not be happier! And again, just to mess with your minds (and encourage further fact- finding missions)... check out "Crazy Gobbler". Getting a working Pac- Man clone to run in only 2048 bytes was quite a feat, in my opinion. Wait until you look through the code yourself, and find out that 20% of that was wasted space, and that 400+ bytes are just plain empty! > When Ward eventually posts the Arcadia > ROM example written by the emulator > author, someone here should hand- > disassemble it (you just need to find > the op-code sheet). Actually, the "chartest" thing went up moments after I first mentioned it, sometime on the 15th. It is up in the files section now. And I just added the op-code sheet... my bad, on that. (See all the neat stuff clogging up my hard drive, that I forget all about!) > This will answer part of the > memory-map questions (as far as > getting characters onto the screen). > As an added bonus (of sorts), we all > have some equate information from the > American Football cartridge. Joy. > > Adam Trionfo I applaud Adam's efforts, just as I do all you unsung researcher types. My write-up in the upcoming guide will include a "thanks" section, that's for sure. A final note or two on the "chartest" program. It started out as only a 24-byte file. I padded it out to 2k, to put it into my personal multicart, to see what happens when it is loaded on a real machine. On the emulator, sometimes you get the same problems as this left- over assembly code "glitch" or whatever you want to call it... the last game you loaded, stays partially in memory and affects the output on the screen. (This is something semi-noteworthy in itself?) And that's plenty from me, for tonight! (Well, this morning.) -- Ward Shrake -- 278 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:25pm Subject: All work and no play commie_fan Here's a humorous story, totally off-topic, to help lighten the mood of the ultra-nerdy technical stuff I tend to post.... ------------------------------------------------- "Once upon a time, I had at a desk job with the U.S. Air Force. My office was just beginning to become seriously automated. On paper, the eight people that worked there were all statisticians, working mostly with calculators and pencils. I had two or three good years of Commodore 64 home computer programming experience before I had joined the service. That meant I knew a lot more about computers than my co- workers did. Once my boss discovered that dirty little secret, he "volunteered" me to do many computer-related projects. I helped automate and modernize our office, little by little. My early assignments were to write or improve BASIC programs that ran on our desktop computers. One of these programs used a pen plotter to automate the creation of overhead projector slides, needed for big meetings full of big-shots. This program required so much repetitive data entry before it would print anything, that anyone typing numbers in would become "hypnotized" by the repetition. An error message might come on the screen, trying to warn them that something bad was going to happen. It would ask if the user realized that something bad would happen. Most people pressed "Y" for "yes" out of habit, without really noticing the potential problem. This happened most often when the program was trying to tell the user they had typed too many letters. If they kept their sentence "as is" it would not all fit onto the slide. The result would be half a sentence, cut off in the middle by the right edge of the slide. (And many angry big-shots, when they could not make sense of their slides.) No one could figure out how to solve this odd problem well. We had to fix it, though. Our boss was sometimes cruel and petty. He had a mean streak. His solution was to tell me I had to install a loud buzzer noise in the program. It activated whenever someone typed a sentence that was too long. Whenever he heard the buzzer noise, he would get up, walk over to that part of the office, and publicly humiliate whoever had just made the mistake. This did stop the problem. It also badly hurt office morale. After a few months of this, the office staff more or less rebelled. Pressure made the boss allow me to disconnect the program's buzzer. Not long after it was removed, however, the office staff went right back to typing sentences that ran off the edge of a slide, and were cut off in the middle. I had not been in the office a full year. I did not want to get in trouble for doing anything without permission, but my confidence was growing. I decided to try something I thought would work, based on my earlier Commodore 64 home computer experiences. I did not tell my boss or my co-workers about my idea. They did not know I was doing anything. I just programmed in a fix I thought would work, and then I forgot all about it. Later that month, the whole office was busy trying to get all of our "end of month" reports done. The office was very quiet; the only noise was made by people pressing keys. Suddenly, one of the girls in my office just yelled my name out, as loudly as she could. She sounded angry. The whole office heard it, and was surprised by it. Everyone looked at each other, stopped working, got up from their desks and went back to see what had happened. When I got back there, everyone was huddled closely around her and her computer. They asked her what was wrong. She tried to answer, but she could not put a full sentence together. Everyone was looking at me, like it was obvious I must have done something really horrible. As it turned out, my co-worker was not angry. She was just so completely surprised at what her computer had just done, that she could not say anything coherent, for awhile. She finally gave up trying to talk. She just typed something in, pointed to the computer screen, and hit "Enter". Just then a tiny Pac-Man character appeared on the right edge of the screen. He moved towards the left, happily eating all of the extra letters she had just typed. When her sentence was just the right size, the Pac-Man character turned around, and went back off the edge of the screen again. He seemed to wait there, patiently, until the next overly-long sentence was typed in. Then he would come back for another snack. Work slowed to a crawl, later that month. No one would admit it, but everyone took turns typing up all of their reports with lots of sentences that were all way too long. Our reports just barely met their deadlines that month. But at least office morale was much better than before!" -- Ward Shrake -- 279 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:42pm Subject: Re: Hanimex commie_fan Bill: Excellent research, dude! Good going. See if you can find the exact web site URL from this person, or some way to identify it? As Adam can tell you, I'm about ready to pull my hair out, over all the COMPLETELY inaccurate information found on many fan web sites, or in print. (Including half the speculative stuff I said in my DPCG #6 guide. Ahem... truth in advertising, right!?) I can see the TV headlines now... "Web site owner stoned to death with obscure video game cassettes, by crazed video game researcher, who left in police custody muttering something incoherent about '28k of RAM, my (censored)! Even the chimps know better than that!'" Seriously, the web info below sounds like an interesting avenue to explore? I would not bet on any huge new discoveries, but the tiniest clues often lead to big discoveries, down the road aways? -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > I contacted Hanimex Australia/New Zealand, this is what they had to > say... > > Hello Bill, > > Thank you for contacting Hanimex, I apologise for the delay in > responding. > Believe it or not your enquiry is less odd than some I receive! > > I have had a lot of trouble tracking information down on this model. > Unfortunately due to the age of the unit I don't have any literature > at all > anymore. I would say that the Hanimex model was probably manufatured > by > Emerson and re-badged as a Hanimex unit. > I copied this information (below) from a website, there are some > dedicated > game fans out there! > I am sorry, but this is all I managed to come across. > > Good luck and best regards, > > Tiia Burnley > Internet help desk > > > > Player 3 Stage 5: Last Hurrah > With total combined game sales of approx. $950 million for 1982, it's > no > wonder companies are still anxious to get onboard the console gravy > train. > Atari makes up 2/3 of the market, but it doesn't stop other companies > from > trying...or Atari from stumbling. > > > > > Vision of Obscurity > (Embedded image moved to file: pic05963.gif)Located in videogame > development hotbed Parsippany, New Jersey, Emerson Electronics is a > manufacturer of low-rent electronic equipment like televisions, VCRs, > > (Embedded image moved to > file: pic22273.gif) > > (Embedded image moved to > file: pic23226.gif) > > > > radios and microwaves. In 1982 they debut the Arcadia 2001, retailing > for > around 100 dollars US. Inside its compact cabinet is an 8-bit 3.58 MHz > Signetics 2650 CPU, powering a nine colour video display allowing four > moving sprites onscreen at any one time. It sports a pretty amazing > 28K of > RAM, ranking just behind the 48K of the ColecoVision for most RAM of > the > pre-crash systems. Its graphics capability is better than the Atari > VCS, > but only on par with the Intellivision, itself already a two years old > system. The sound capability is a piddly one channel. The Arcadia's > controls are a clever innovation on the Intellivision; they feature > control > discs into which plastic sticks can be screwed for that Atari > controller > feeling. They also ape Mattel and Coleco's consoles by having a 12 > button > keypad for use with game overlays, along with two fire buttons. There > is > space on the top cover to store the controllers when not in use, > although > no place to put the cords. 35 carts are eventually produced for the > system, > in two different size formats, with names like Tanks A Lot, Baseball, > Crazy > Gobbler and Space Attack. Unfortunately, it appears that most of that > 28K > of available system memory goes to waste: no game uses more than 8K > of it. > The Arcadia is considered the first portable videogame system not > only for > its diminutive size, but also for the fact it has the capability to > run off > any 12V DC power supply, like a car battery. It goes under a number of > aliases world-wide; in Canada it's known as the Leisure-Vision, > Germany the > Hanimex HMG-2650 and Tele-Fever, Italy the Leonardo and in New > Zealand it > carries the moniker Video Master. Its release comes the same year as > the > graphics powerhouse ColecoVision, and the poor Arcadia is immediately > relegated to the fringe, failing to make even a minor dent before the > market falls apart in 1983-84. Its most lasting legacy probably > results > from the legal tussle Emerson engages in with third-party manufacturer > Arcadia, makers of the Supercharger VCS enhancer, over their name. > Arcadia > is eventually renamed Starpath, and is eventually folded into Epyx. 280 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 5:48am Subject: Ed Averett and the Odyssey 2 console commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "dieterk_ccc" wrote: (snip) > Regarding Ed Averett: Would be great > if Ward would get the permission to > post the interview with Ed Averett > here. I cannot promise anything, other than "I'm working on it". Worse case deal, if he says "no" then you guys can buy the book-on-disk that I am referring to. It was worth every penny, to me personally. It has interviews with all sorts of interesting people, including one of my personal favorites... Eugene Jarvis of "Robotron: 2084" fame, along with other of William's most beloved adrenaline fest arcade games. A whole list of people; Ed Averett was interesting, but so are others. http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon.html Some Averett quotes, to spur on a few orders of James' cool digi- book. (Maybe if he gets a few orders from us, he'll let us post more?) ---------------------------------------------------------------- "The next decision was to whom does Intel sell this super video chip: Atari or Magnavox? The decision was Magnavox, which was part of the Philips organization and holder of all the key game patents. Six months after going into production, the game designers at Magnavox hit a design block and could not come up with any new game ideas. I volunteered my assistance and explained to Andy Grove that I could sell more silicon for Intel if I programmed games for the Odyssey 2 than if I stayed at Intel. The Odyssey 2 contained Intel ROM, RAM, the 8048 microprocessor, and the 8244--in other words a whole bucket of Intel silicon." "When word reached N.V. Philips in Eindhoven that the engineers at Magnavox had hit designers' block and couldn't come up with more games, Philips sent word to sell off existing inventory and close down the video game business. For the first two years, I was designing games for them as they were trying to close down their whole video game business. This news did not make Intel, the video game people at Magnavox, or me very happy." "Now "K.C" was kicking "Pac-Man"'s butt in the market, and Philips had finally gotten the message about video games. When Magnavox won the lower court decision, that was the crossing of the Rubicon for Philips. The big marketing and manufacturing guns of N.V. Philips were about to be trained on Atari and the whole video game business. There was dancing in the street for the little video game group at Magnavox. Unfortunately, the attorneys joined in the celebration, which lasted for three days." "So Intel said "thanks but no thanks" to the next design effort. At the same time, Philips had bought Signetics and felt very strongly that they should design the next generation graphic chip, so the chip design went from Intel to Signetics. A decent chip was breadboarded but never made it to silicon." ---------------------------------------------------------------- And to be fair to James Hague, a fellow researcher, that's enough of a free taste of the interview. Check out the rest via the link. :-) http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon.html With any luck, he'll let us post that one interview? If not, the quotes above should suffice to show you guys that while my recent comments might have seemed like a fantasy, that they are really not. > I don't think that Ed Averett knows > much about the "late" Videopac scene > here in Europe but it will be > interesting to find out more about > the earlier years of this system and > I am sure we would find some very > nice connections between the early > US years and the late European > years of the O2/Videopac system. Agreed; I don't think Ed was "in the loop" in much of that later stuff, after his Odyssey 2 coding efforts had ended. That last quote above implies his insider status was no longer applicable, since the entire Arcadia 2001 machine did manage to spread itself across the globe pretty nicely. Unless of course Ed was referring to yet another vaporware console chip design? One that no collector / historian (to my knowledge) has fully researched yet... and no, don't any of you dare to try to volunteer me for that!! -- Ward Shrake -- 281 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 7:58pm Subject: Re: Screenshot similarities billlagr DOH!!! that didnt go as planned... what it was _supposed_ to show was a big "Philips" logo, followed by all the support BBS numbers. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > Couple of things - > While looking for a 2650 disassembler, I came across an assembler. > Its self-extracting ARJ file, nothing unusual there. But when you > extract it, have a look at the message displayed - (see below) In > itself it doesnt really show much, except that Philips at least made > some effort at support. > bout the PDP-8 - Wasnt that a DEC beastie? If thats so..then how > would that tie in with Philips/Signetics? (Rhetorical Question - Not > expecting a straight answer there :) Did Philips/Signetics > manufacture parts for DEC maybe? > > 282 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:16pm Subject: Re: Hanimex billlagr My apologies if a similar message appears twice - i posted one and it seemed to be swallowed into nothingness..... I read the 28K bit and had a bit of a chuckle and thought of you straight away, being provided with a dashing white jacket, with extra long sleeves and matching leather straps and metal buckles. I will ask the kind lady if she can rememebr which site it was, I was going to write back to her anyway and thank her for her time and at least making an attempt for us. Which I really did appreciate - all to often you get no reply at all. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Bill: Excellent research, dude! Good going. See if you can find the > exact web site URL from this person, or some way to identify it? > > As Adam can tell you, I'm about ready to pull my hair out, over all > the COMPLETELY inaccurate information found on many fan web sites, or > in print. (Including half the speculative stuff I said in my DPCG #6 > guide. Ahem... truth in advertising, right!?) > > I can see the TV headlines now... "Web site owner stoned to death > with obscure video game cassettes, by crazed video game researcher, > who left in police custody muttering something incoherent about '28k > of RAM, my (censored)! Even the chimps know better than that!'" > > Seriously, the web info below sounds like an interesting avenue to > explore? I would not bet on any huge new discoveries, but the tiniest > clues often lead to big discoveries, down the road aways? > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > I contacted Hanimex Australia/New Zealand, this is what they had to > > say... > > > > Hello Bill, > > > > Thank you for contacting Hanimex, I apologise for the delay in > > responding. > > Believe it or not your enquiry is less odd than some I receive! > > > > I have had a lot of trouble tracking information down on this model. > > Unfortunately due to the age of the unit I don't have any > literature > > at all > > anymore. I would say that the Hanimex model was probably > manufatured > > by > > Emerson and re-badged as a Hanimex unit. > > I copied this information (below) from a website, there are some > > dedicated > > game fans out there! > > I am sorry, but this is all I managed to come across. > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > Tiia Burnley > > Internet help desk > > > > > > > > Player 3 Stage 5: Last Hurrah > > With total combined game sales of approx. $950 million for 1982, > it's > > no > > wonder companies are still anxious to get onboard the console gravy > > train. > > Atari makes up 2/3 of the market, but it doesn't stop other > companies > > from > > trying...or Atari from stumbling. > > > > > > > > > > Vision of Obscurity > > (Embedded image moved to file: pic05963.gif)Located in videogame > > development hotbed Parsippany, New Jersey, Emerson Electronics is a > > manufacturer of low-rent electronic equipment like televisions, > VCRs, > > > > (Embedded image moved to > > file: pic22273.gif) > > > > (Embedded image moved to > > file: pic23226.gif) > > > > > > > > radios and microwaves. In 1982 they debut the Arcadia 2001, > retailing > > for > > around 100 dollars US. Inside its compact cabinet is an 8-bit 3.58 > MHz > > Signetics 2650 CPU, powering a nine colour video display allowing > four > > moving sprites onscreen at any one time. It sports a pretty amazing > > 28K of > > RAM, ranking just behind the 48K of the ColecoVision for most RAM > of > > the > > pre-crash systems. Its graphics capability is better than the Atari > > VCS, > > but only on par with the Intellivision, itself already a two years > old > > system. The sound capability is a piddly one channel. The Arcadia's > > controls are a clever innovation on the Intellivision; they feature > > control > > discs into which plastic sticks can be screwed for that Atari > > controller > > feeling. They also ape Mattel and Coleco's consoles by having a 12 > > button > > keypad for use with game overlays, along with two fire buttons. > There > > is > > space on the top cover to store the controllers when not in use, > > although > > no place to put the cords. 35 carts are eventually produced for the > > system, > > in two different size formats, with names like Tanks A Lot, > Baseball, > > Crazy > > Gobbler and Space Attack. Unfortunately, it appears that most of > that > > 28K > > of available system memory goes to waste: no game uses more than 8K > > of it. > > The Arcadia is considered the first portable videogame system not > > only for > > its diminutive size, but also for the fact it has the capability to > > run off > > any 12V DC power supply, like a car battery. It goes under a number > of > > aliases world-wide; in Canada it's known as the Leisure-Vision, > > Germany the > > Hanimex HMG-2650 and Tele-Fever, Italy the Leonardo and in New > > Zealand it > > carries the moniker Video Master. Its release comes the same year > as > > the > > graphics powerhouse ColecoVision, and the poor Arcadia is > immediately > > relegated to the fringe, failing to make even a minor dent before > the > > market falls apart in 1983-84. Its most lasting legacy probably > > results > > from the legal tussle Emerson engages in with third-party > manufacturer > > Arcadia, makers of the Supercharger VCS enhancer, over their name. > > Arcadia > > is eventually renamed Starpath, and is eventually folded into Epyx. 283 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:19pm Subject: new file - Cross Assembler billlagr I will post the cross assembler, so that everyone can see the message (the big Philips) I was rabbiting on about before. Bill 284 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:07pm Subject: Re: Hanimex billlagr hehe...how about "Video Game researcher taken away by large men and put in an oversize white coat with matching leather straps, after his extrordinary claims that a video game system was built by monkeys?" I will ask where the web site is, I was going to reply to her anyway and thank her for at least taking the time to have a look. Even tho she didnt find the goldmine, I really appreciated that she at least made an effort. I did have a chuckle over the 28 K tho, as soon as I read it I thought of you and "truth in advertising" I have to admit tho, I got my hopes up a bit too much with the Andrew Choi thing. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Bill: Excellent research, dude! Good going. See if you can find the > exact web site URL from this person, or some way to identify it? > > As Adam can tell you, I'm about ready to pull my hair out, over all > the COMPLETELY inaccurate information found on many fan web sites, or > in print. (Including half the speculative stuff I said in my DPCG #6 > guide. Ahem... truth in advertising, right!?) > > I can see the TV headlines now... "Web site owner stoned to death > with obscure video game cassettes, by crazed video game researcher, > who left in police custody muttering something incoherent about '28k > of RAM, my (censored)! Even the chimps know better than that!'" > > Seriously, the web info below sounds like an interesting avenue to > explore? I would not bet on any huge new discoveries, but the tiniest > clues often lead to big discoveries, down the road aways? > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > I contacted Hanimex Australia/New Zealand, this is what they had to > > say... > > > > Hello Bill, > > > > Thank you for contacting Hanimex, I apologise for the delay in > > responding. > > Believe it or not your enquiry is less odd than some I receive! > > > > I have had a lot of trouble tracking information down on this model. > > Unfortunately due to the age of the unit I don't have any > literature > > at all > > anymore. I would say that the Hanimex model was probably > manufatured > > by > > Emerson and re-badged as a Hanimex unit. > > I copied this information (below) from a website, there are some > > dedicated > > game fans out there! > > I am sorry, but this is all I managed to come across. > > > > Good luck and best regards, > > > > Tiia Burnley > > Internet help desk > > > > > > > > Player 3 Stage 5: Last Hurrah > > With total combined game sales of approx. $950 million for 1982, > it's > > no > > wonder companies are still anxious to get onboard the console gravy > > train. > > Atari makes up 2/3 of the market, but it doesn't stop other > companies > > from > > trying...or Atari from stumbling. > > > > > > > > > > Vision of Obscurity > > (Embedded image moved to file: pic05963.gif)Located in videogame > > development hotbed Parsippany, New Jersey, Emerson Electronics is a > > manufacturer of low-rent electronic equipment like televisions, > VCRs, > > > > (Embedded image moved to > > file: pic22273.gif) > > > > (Embedded image moved to > > file: pic23226.gif) > > > > > > > > radios and microwaves. In 1982 they debut the Arcadia 2001, > retailing > > for > > around 100 dollars US. Inside its compact cabinet is an 8-bit 3.58 > MHz > > Signetics 2650 CPU, powering a nine colour video display allowing > four > > moving sprites onscreen at any one time. It sports a pretty amazing > > 28K of > > RAM, ranking just behind the 48K of the ColecoVision for most RAM > of > > the > > pre-crash systems. Its graphics capability is better than the Atari > > VCS, > > but only on par with the Intellivision, itself already a two years > old > > system. The sound capability is a piddly one channel. The Arcadia's > > controls are a clever innovation on the Intellivision; they feature > > control > > discs into which plastic sticks can be screwed for that Atari > > controller > > feeling. They also ape Mattel and Coleco's consoles by having a 12 > > button > > keypad for use with game overlays, along with two fire buttons. > There > > is > > space on the top cover to store the controllers when not in use, > > although > > no place to put the cords. 35 carts are eventually produced for the > > system, > > in two different size formats, with names like Tanks A Lot, > Baseball, > > Crazy > > Gobbler and Space Attack. Unfortunately, it appears that most of > that > > 28K > > of available system memory goes to waste: no game uses more than 8K > > of it. > > The Arcadia is considered the first portable videogame system not > > only for > > its diminutive size, but also for the fact it has the capability to > > run off > > any 12V DC power supply, like a car battery. It goes under a number > of > > aliases world-wide; in Canada it's known as the Leisure-Vision, > > Germany the > > Hanimex HMG-2650 and Tele-Fever, Italy the Leonardo and in New > > Zealand it > > carries the moniker Video Master. Its release comes the same year > as > > the > > graphics powerhouse ColecoVision, and the poor Arcadia is > immediately > > relegated to the fringe, failing to make even a minor dent before > the > > market falls apart in 1983-84. Its most lasting legacy probably > > results > > from the legal tussle Emerson engages in with third-party > manufacturer > > Arcadia, makers of the Supercharger VCS enhancer, over their name. > > Arcadia > > is eventually renamed Starpath, and is eventually folded into Epyx. 285 From: "billlagr" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 9:00pm Subject: Re: Screenshot similarities - Another little nugget billlagr Mentioning Assembler of some kind... While looking for the 2650 disassembler, I came across a 2650 cross- assembler. When you run it, at first its a self extracting ARJ file. However, the message that it brings up is quite interesting - (see below for a cut-and-paste-ed copy) Just another of those useless little nuggets..but it at least demonstrates that Philips were at least making some tools available. &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#960= 0;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#96= 00;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9= 600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#= 9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&= #9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;= &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#= 9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; = &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#960= 0;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;= &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; = &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#960= 0;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#96= 00;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#96= 00;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#= 9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#96= 00;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#96= 00;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#= 9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600; &#9600;= &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#960= 0;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#96= 00;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9= 600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#= 9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&= #9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;= &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; &#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600;&#9600; PHILIPS SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE ARISING FROM THE USE OF ITS LIBRARIES, SOFTWARE OR THIS BBS. "{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"= {"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{ "{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{"{ PHILIPS SEMICONDUCTORS BBS NET : Sunnyvale MCO Computer Bulletin Board : +1 408 991-2406 (max. 2400 baud) Inside USA : 800 451-6644 (max. 2400 baud) Sunnyvale ROM Code bulletin board : +1 408 991-3459 (max. 2400 baud) PHIBBS automatic node : +31 40 721102 (node 1 or 2) PHIBBS node 1 : +31 40 722142 (max. 14400 baud) PHIBBS node 2 : +31 40 722110 (max. 14400 baud) HELPDESK PHIBBS : +31 40 722749 (9.00-16.00 CET) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > > Compare Golf on the emulator > > and the screenshot...I would > > hazard a guess that Crazy Gobbler > > is out of whack too, compared to > > Nibbleman. > > > I used a DOS-based utility program I wrote some years ago, to check > the number of byte differences in a variety of games. Crazy Gobbler > and Nibblemen were alike in some ways, visually, but checked out as > being about 50% different in terms of byte-by-byte code. This may or > may not mean they were really all that different... if you simply > shift everything back by one byte, you'll cause a nearly 100% > mismatch. Just the fact that it showed up as 50% alike, shows there > is definitely some reason to think they re-used code between them. > > Other programs checked out with something like 3800 bytes (out of > 4096) different between the two versions I was checking. I saw very > similar numbers, a lot, which is highly unusual in itself. If the two > programs were coded differently, presumably from scratch, that sort > of consistently inconsistent matching-up would be statistically odd, > to say the least? You would expect random numbers, not similar ones? > > If you look at some of the game's internals, it is clear that the > people that wrote the games used an assembler program of some kind. > You can tell, because at the very end of various program's ROM image, > there is the left-over remnants of someone's source code, that was > burned into the final EPROM / ROM image of the game itself. (See > American Football, 3D Soccer, and even Boxing.) > > The use of an assembler program to write their code implies many > things. The most obvious, in terms of this discussion on re-using old > code to write new games, is that they most likely had code modules > all ready to go, which allowed them to cut-n-paste most of a game > together, quickly. Fill in most of the game with pre-written modules, > change some graphics, change some game play code, and call it one > more game to add to your software library. > > This would explain all of the similar-looking maze games, the ability > to quickly write many games (from Interton to Arcadia) at launch, the > ability to quickly re-write them to comply with lawsuit threats, etc. > > All in all, this made them ahead of the curve, in some ways. They had > a good shot at a large market segment, until Atari's lawsuits and > stuff like the ColecoVision came onto the scene. It looks to me like > there is a four-year cycle, from generation to generation, back in > the 70's and 80's. That cycle didn't start to really stretch out > until Nintendo and others purposely marketed their games around it. > > Signetics' or UA Limited's or whoevers' planning wasn't ridiculously > bad... it just expected things to stay as they were, much longer than > it did. Kind of like showing up late, for your own party. Oh well. > > > > Though its also a possibility that.. > > errrmmm.."budgetary constraints" forced > > the programmers hands a little. Along > > the lines of "Produce the maximum games > > for minimum time and resources" > > > I may as well drop this bomb now... I was going to wait, but I want > to see what others think of this, and how far we can go with it, > until we hit a (logical or factual) brick wall of some kind? > > In the Interton VC-4000 info that is in the files section -- the talk > that happened years ago on Usenet -- there is reference to a maze > game that had an interesting game play element. > > Quoting it: "By the way,it is astonishing,HOW BAD many of the > Interton games play. E.g. there is the "Pac Man" variant "Monster > Man",which has basically always only 1 single dot(an insect sprite) > at each time in the maze. After the player collects it,the next one > appears at a different location and so on and so on. (But at least > the 4 bonus pills exists.) The Odyssey 2 "Munchkin" plays way > better than this." > > Note the reference to the Odyssey 2 machine, which was made by the > company Magnavox, which was (like Signetics) under Philip's business > umbrella. The game "K.C. Munchkin" was one of Atari's first lawsuits, > against North American Philips; Atari claimed the game was just a rip- > off of Pac-Man. They tried to stop it from going into stores before > the christmas shopping season of late 1981. They sort of succeeded. > > Note also that a game on the Interton console -- "Monster Maze" -- > had a game play element that was used to some degree in an O2 game. > (The things you were supposed to eat, moved around within the maze.) > > One of the results of the lawsuit was that "K.C. Munchkin" spawned a > legalized version called "K.C.'s Krazy Chase". One of the game play > elements of that game was a Dratapiller" ... a multi-segmented > creature sort of like a giant catepiller, which moved through a maze > that was similar to a Pac-Man type game. (Within the O2's limits.) > > Here's a link to the game vaults' emulator section, on > ClassicGaming.com, which has the (pretty neat) Odyssey 2 emulator: > > http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/o2emu.shtml > > If you can, compare "K.C.'s Krazy Chase" to "Jungler" on the Arcadia > 2001 console. Look in particular at the multi-segmented creature. I > think they look almost identical? The intent certainly was, even if > there are differences between the consoles they had to overcome. > > They look alike in some ways, and move alike in some ways. They are > both in a maze. The game "Crazy Gobbler" only calls itself "Gobbler" > on the screen, and that is a perfect amount of letters to spell "Pac- > Man" if a person had wanted to do that. The parent company of > Signetics got sued by Atari, for what another branch had done. > > In the same basic time period, you have a lot of things that look > like they may have been connected, in some hidden way. Knowing that > both Signetics and Magnavox shared a parent company, could the > lawyers for Philips / Magnavox have shared "legalization tips" with > Signetics / Philips? It certainly seems not only possible, but > prudent. What parent company, having learned a painful lesson with > one company it controlled, would not try to warn other branches? > > This may explain why the program on the Arcadia that was most likely > going to be the pack-in game -- note that Cat Trax is #1 on some > consoles and the 2k program size -- was perhaps renamed from "Pac- > Man" to "Gobbler" to "Crazy Gobbler" during the NAP lawsuit period? > > But here's the big bomb, the one I hope is not a dud... > > What if the parent company also coordinated the sharing of code? What > if the Magnavox Odyssey2 console's game program source code was also > written in assembler? Even if it was for a totally different machine, > an assembly listing would not be that insanely hard to port over? You > would have distinct, labeled code modules, comments, etc., etc.. > > Which might also be another way to tie in past experiences that one > of the branches had, and learned from. Ed Averett wrote quite a few > of the Odyssey2 games... by himself. One man could not easily go head > to head with both Atari and third party software developers... and > yet they did give Atari a run for their money, in some ways. Enough > to spur Atari to file lawsuits against Magnavox. Might Philips have > learned from that experience in some way? Who knows. I have some info > on Ed's experiences -- interviews with James Hague, of "Giant List of > Classic Game Programmers" fame. I'll read them over carefully, soon. > > And what of the reference made in the Interton technical text that is > up on the files section, in which someone claims that the 2650 chip > was an all-in-one version of the PDP-8 central processing unit. For > those that don't know computer history as well as console history, > the PDP-8 was an older mainframe computer. This is interesting, to > me, given the other facts we (think we) know. If the 2650 was in fact > an off-shoot of an old but popular mainframe, and if the games for > both the Interton and the Arcadia were written in assembly language, > then could it not be possible that the games were written on a PDP- 8 > mainframe? If you had a mainframe -- older or not -- available that > you were writing your source code on, cross-assembly from one game > console to another would not be all that difficult, technically. Hmm. > I suppose this means I have to go searching for assembly source code > fragments at the ends of all of my Odyssey 2 game ROM images, too? > > Keep in mind that Atari's original arcade Pong game was based on just > a visual viewing of someone else's Pong game... Magnavox's I think, > but I do not want to say so for sure. > > If this was all substantially true, it would sort of be like a form > of marketing revenge by Philips against Atari, for Atari's earlier > market treachery, when they "liberated" the Pong game idea? Hmm. > > All of this is one of those things were I have to wonder if I am > (a) "on TO something" or (b) just "ON something"? ;-) > > Perhaps we should be comparing all three game systems... not just the > Interton VC-4000's games and the games for the Arcadia 2001, but also > the games made by the Magnavox company, for their Odyssey2 console? > > Comments? Questions? Stunned silence? Hilarious laughter? > > -- Ward Shrake -- 286 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 8:04pm Subject: Re: Arcadia Programmed in Assembly billlagr for everyones info, the opcodes are all in the reference manual in the links section. Theres also the disassembler in the files. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I originally wrote this message to Ward and he asked me to rephrase ------ > When Ward eventually posts the Arcadia ROM example written by the emulator > author, someone here should hand-disassemble it (you just need to find the > op-code sheet). This will answer part of the memory-map questions (as far > as getting characters onto the screen). As an added bonus (of sorts), we > all have some equate information from the American Football cartridge. Joy. > > Adam Trionfo 287 From: "billlagr" Date: Wed Apr 17, 2002 10:17pm Subject: Broken Web SIte billlagr errrmm...if anyone was trying to look at my web page and couldnt...its fixed, thanks to Ward for pointing out that minor problem :) 288 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Apr 16, 2002 8:07pm Subject: Re: (Almost) complete Interton collection for sale... stefanpiasecki > As far as i know, there isn't any NTSC version of the Interton VC > 4000 and neither any NTSC clones as well. BUT, there is a way to play > them, just try to get an old B/W TV with a vertical knob ajustement. > You won't play in color but at least you'll be able to play. Those games are the same than the ones on the Hanimex1296. If you can get this console in NTSC-format, you have the games. Stefan 289 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 9:30am Subject: A bit about the 2650 CPU Instructor-50 atrionfo Although this isn't directly related, here's a snippet about the 2650 CPU that was used in the Arcadia (although this isn't about the Arcadia itself, I think that it was close enough to be of interest to this group). This is from the IC When website: http://www.icwhen.com/book/the%201970s/1978.html Adam ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics releases a small training computer designed around the Signetics 2650 Central Processing Unit (CPU) called the Instructor-50 desktop minicomputer. The shelf price is around $350. It features 2K Read Only Memory (ROM), 640K Random Access Memory (RAM), an 8-digit Light Emitting Diode (LED) display and parallel as well as cassette tape ports. The shelf price is $350. (A collector of old processors, Mr. Shane Smith, updated this information with an email sent to www.ICWhen.com on Monday, April 3, 2000. "...I have a couple of Signetics 2650 systems and I do not believe the Signetics Instructor-50 had 640K of RAM. As a matter of fact, having only 14 address lines, the 2650 was capable of addressing only 32K bytes. Of course, you can bank-select, but, actual addressable Random Access Memory (RAM) was limited to 32K bytes. Of interest, the stack is implemented on the CPU itself. Unfortunately, this provides a depth of only 7 subroutines before the stack wraps around. You could always fudge something by using one of the CPU registers to put in a crude stack.") ---------------------------------------------------------------------- 290 From: "ventrra" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 9:38am Subject: Re: Binary file reader program -- should we make one? ventrra I've put a link in the Bookmarks section under Miscellaneous which does something to that effect. I can see the messages for Andrew Choi & co. using it anyway. It's a Windows program. I hope that might help some. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash wrote: > On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, commie_fan wrote: > > Does anyone here know of a read-only binary file reader, or something > > that would read a file and output an ASCII text file interpretation? > > Something that will NOT EVER alter the file you're looking at? > > There's an old DOS program called "List" (l.com or list.com I think) > that might work. It was a quick directory/file browser, and for text > files, there's a hex mode via alt-h, which lists ASCII and straight > hex (side-by-side? can't remember for sure). It should work just fine > on bin files. > -- > //*================================================================+ + > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// 291 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 11:37am Subject: 2650 Assembler binary object output file? atrionfo I posted a similar question about ten hours ago (late this morning), but it still hasn't appeared on the message board (so, if it eventually does, overlook it)... How do I create a binary file with the 2650 assembler that is in the message baord file section (the assembler is called 'VACS')? I have assembled the example program, TEST50.ASM, and it works fine: it creates the assembling listing and the object file. The trouble is, the object file is not a straight binary file, it's got the extention .hex (I think it's Intel format). The docs suggest the assembler supports "a Mototola s1-s9 format object file," and "a Tektronix format object file." The default format seems to be the Intel Hex format-- but what about just plain binary format? Does anyone have experience with this assembler? In order to make ROM images for the emulator (or to burn to ROM) the object file needs to be a vanilla binary file-- how do I go about making this so? Adam 292 From: "ventrra" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 2:48am Subject: Re: Binary file reader program -- should we make one? ventrra There is a little program from www.analogx.com that alows a person to use any file as input to view ASCII charactors in the programs. It's called "TextScan" and it runs in Windows. That's what I had used to view the hidden messages in the Arcadia ROMS about Andrew Choi & co. I'm going to try to put a link to it in the bookmarks section so others can see what it's about & download it if they want. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash wrote: > On Sat, 13 Apr 2002, commie_fan wrote: > > Does anyone here know of a read-only binary file reader, or something > > that would read a file and output an ASCII text file interpretation? > > Something that will NOT EVER alter the file you're looking at? > > There's an old DOS program called "List" (l.com or list.com I think) > that might work. It was a quick directory/file browser, and for text > files, there's a hex mode via alt-h, which lists ASCII and straight > hex (side-by-side? can't remember for sure). It should work just fine > on bin files. > -- > //*================================================================+ + > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// 293 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 5:49am Subject: 2 Audio Sonic carts for sale... stefanpiasecki http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1723465060 Compatible with Radofin. Stefan 294 From: "atrionfo" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:30am Subject: "Assembled programs?" Here's some support atrionfo I have found support in the "2650 User's Manual" to give credit that Arcadia programming was done using cross-assemblers provided by Signetics. This is not proof that all games were programmed with cross-assemblers (or even that any were); Ward is right that just because it COULD happen doesn't mean that it DID happen. The manual does not only talk about the assembler, but also a "Simulator." There is even support here for customers to share code. Read this for yourself and then draw your own conclusions of just how far Signetics was willing to go to support (and thus sell more) 2650's. Adam Excerpt from the "2650 User's Manual," Pages 15-16. ------------------------------------------------------------------ SOFTWARE SUPPORT Signetics-developed software is available to both the batch processing user and the timesharing user. The Batch Assembler and Batch Simulator are written in standard FORTRAN and may be compiled and executed on most medium to large scale computer systems. Because of the modular design used, it is expected that many minicomputer users will also be able to utilize these programs. The main features of the programs are listed in Tables 3 and 4. Signetics has also made the Batch Assembler, Batch Simulator and Interactive Simulator available on several international timesharing networks for those customers who wish to run these programs using a timesharing service. When a customer chooses to follow the timesharing approach, he can also make use of the interactive version of the 2650 Simulator. With the Inter- TABLE 3. ASSEMBLER FEATURES * 2-Pass Assembler * Diagnostic error messages * Symbolic addressing including forward references * Constant generation * Pseudo-ops to aid programming * Free format source code Table 4. SIMULATOR FEATURES * Cycle Counter for timing estimates * Instruction fetch break points * Operand fetch break points * Trace facilities * Snapshot dumps * Patching facility * Statistical information generated * Easy-to-use command language * Optionally selected start and end addresses * Dynamic changes of simulated registers * Optionally simulates ROM-RAM environment active Simulator the software designer can utilize his timesharing terminal to dynamically alter his program and effectively reduce his program development time. The Signetics 2650 Symbolic Assembly Language has been modeled after other assembly languages; because of this, the assembler is easy to learn and to use. The Simulator programs are designed to aid the user in testing and correcting his programs. This approach is an alternative to dedicating hardware development tools to one or two programmers or designers for program development. The Simulator allows users to simulate the execution of programs without utilizing a processor. The Simulator utilizes the object module produced by the Assembler as input, and through use of appropriate simulator commands, can display and/or alter the internal registers of the simulated 2650 processor and the simulated memory contents. The programs are usually delivered on IBM compatible magnetic tape "mini-reels." All programs are in FORTRAN source code as card image records. A growing Program Library is available to Signetics microprocessor users. We encourage users to submit all non- proprietary programs to Signetics to add to the program library so that we may make them available to other users. ------------------------------------------------------------------ 295 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 0:36am Subject: Re: All work and no play stefanpiasecki Oh Ward, this is such a cute story. It must be a pleasure to have colleagues like you around. At least creative colleagues that think "that little bit further". Stefan 296 From: "atrionfo" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 1:39am Subject: 2650 Assembler - Binary Output? atrionfo I disassembled 'CHARTEST.NIN' using DASMx, and that worked well (but the formating for the 2650 is VERY alien looking compared to the Z80). Anyway, I just wanted to assemble DASMx's output to make sure it was working right, but I can't do this until I can get the "VACS 2650 Cross Assembler" to make binary output files. What's the command line format to get the "VACS" to make the output file binary and not Hex format? There seems to be an assembler option to do this, but I can't get it to work. Here's the option: O sends the object code to the given file or device spec. Default extension is '.HEX'. Anyone have any luck? Who has used this assembler before? Any tips? Adam 297 From: "billlagr" Date: Thu Apr 18, 2002 8:35pm Subject: Re: 2650 Assembler - Binary Output? billlagr I mainly uploaded it for the message at the start...but I downloaded it originally from http://custom.lab.unb.br/pub/electronics/circuit_cellar/Cross_Developm ent/ There is a heap of cross development tools, files, manuals etc there.. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "atrionfo" wrote: > I disassembled 'CHARTEST.NIN' using DASMx, and that worked well (but > the formating for the 2650 is VERY alien looking compared to the > Z80). Anyway, I just wanted to assemble DASMx's output to make sure > it was working right, but I can't do this until I can get the "VACS > 2650 Cross Assembler" to make binary output files. > > What's the command line format to get the "VACS" to make the output > file binary and not Hex format? There seems to be an assembler > option to do this, but I can't get it to work. Here's the option: > > O sends the object code to the given file or > device spec. Default extension is '.HEX'. > > Anyone have any luck? Who has used this assembler before? Any tips? > > Adam 298 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 3:28am Subject: Arcadia assemblers and programming atrionfo I added another Signetics cross-assembler to the file section. This assembler is called the "Frankenstein Cross Assembler;" this is the 2650 version (there are many different flavors of this for many different processors). The documentation is in some form of Unix docs (groff, troff, TeX?), so I didn't go over it much (Any Linux/Unix folks out there? Can you take a look and convert these docs into plain ASCII or pdf files?). Has anyone else tried to assemble output from the DASMx 2650 disassembler yet? It needs to be modified for the VACS assembler. In particular, DASMx outputs stuff like: lodi,r0 H'00' VACS chokes on it (even though this is the format shown in the examples in the 2650 User's Manual). I'm really in over my head here, but after changing it to: lodi,r0 00h it assembles okay, which doesn't mean it's fixed; it just assembles. I have not found a way to create straight binary files yet, though I have had luck converting the files from Hex format to binary using Win Hex (my hex editor of choice. [Ward, you really should try it]). I used Google Groups to contact those people who have, over the years, posting messages looking data sheets for the 2636 or 2637. I've had a few replies, but nobody has found any info. I called the local library for advice and they helped me search and gave me some advice (but it didn't help). I don't suppose that any of YOU has been sitting on the info, just waiting for someone like me to ask for it? (I didn't think so...). Has anyone found the Arcadia memory map yet? Does anyone here have 2650 experience (I've have NONE). The syntax is weird, and I could use some pointers (uh, help, that is- not 'pointers.'). I can't get my hand-disassembly of 'chartest.bin' to match the DASMx disassembly. Has anyone done investigation into this area of the Arcadia? Adam 299 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 4:58am Subject: Chris Capener -- "Funky Fish" programmer commie_fan Just letting you guys know that thanks to Michael Davidson's research efforts, I now have a good contact e-mail address for Chris Capener, who worked on "Funky Fish" for the Arcadia console. Mike asked him some initial questions, and Chris answered. Mike is pretty busy in real life, so he turned the interview process over to me. We are making good progress... but I'm working very hard not to scare Chris off with overly-long or complicated communications. So far, it is working. I'll post the final results when we're done talking, etc. And thanks again to Mike, for his wonderful detective work! -- Ward Shrake -- 300 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 5:21am Subject: 2650 opcode listing in numerical order atrionfo I typed the 2650 op-code list in numerical order and posted it to the files section. This list should make hand-disassembly a bit easier (if anyone dares). See the file 2650num.txt for more details. Adam 301 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:00am Subject: Re: Chris Capener -- "Funky Fish" programmer tempest_2084 Did he do the Arcadia version of Funky Fish or the 2600 version? Are you taking questions to ask him yet? Lord knows I have a few "non-technical" questions for him. Matt > > Just letting you guys know that thanks to Michael Davidson's research > efforts, I now have a good contact e-mail address for Chris Capener, > who worked on "Funky Fish" for the Arcadia console. Mike asked him > some initial questions, and Chris answered. Mike is pretty busy in > real life, so he turned the interview process over to me. We are > making good progress... but I'm working very hard not to scare Chris > off with overly-long or complicated communications. So far, it is > working. I'll post the final results when we're done talking, etc. > > And thanks again to Mike, for his wonderful detective work! > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert reicher6@... Http://www.msu.edu/~reicher6/ Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 302 From: "kiwigame" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 9:39am Subject: Re: Chris Capener -- "Funky Fish" programmer kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matthew Robert Reichert" wrote: > Did he do the Arcadia version of Funky Fish or the 2600 version? Are you > taking questions to ask him yet? Lord knows I have a few "non- technical" > questions for him. Matt He's confirmed so far that he wrote "Funky Fish" for the Arcadia (on contract) and then later he wrote "Jumpman Jr" for the Coleco while working for Epyx. I'm hoping Ward asks him about the 2600 version as well! But I suspect he was not involved. On the subject of the 2600 UA Limited games I've been looking at the AtariAge site and while there are screenshots no roms have been released. The code in these would be interesting to look at. As your the "2600" Proto man do you know much more about the UA 2600 games? Theres 3 I think. ie. are they owned by a US/Euro collector? (PAL/NTSC?) As standalone protos? I'd read somewhere else these games had orginally turned up in Multicarts - any ideas which multis? Cheers Michael 303 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 9:56am Subject: Re: Chris Capener -- "Funky Fish" programmer commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: (snip) > On the subject of the 2600 UA > Limited games I've been looking > at the AtariAge site and while > there are screenshots no roms have > been released. The code in these > would be interesting to look at. Alexander Bilstein got that info from me... well, the initial info, and then he followed up on it, to get screenshots and so on. > As your the "2600" Proto man do you > know much more about the UA 2600 > games? Theres 3 I think. ie. are > they owned by a US/Euro collector? > (PAL/NTSC?) As standalone protos? > I'd read somewhere else these games > had orginally turned up in > Multicarts - any ideas which multis? Tsk, tsk. Shame on you non-FAQ-reading type people! http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/2001-faq.htm#2600ports http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/2001-faq.htm#credits ...and also on the Digital Press message boards... http://pub27.ezboard.com/fretrogamingfrm8.showMessage?topicID=58.topic -- Ward Shrake -- 304 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 6:26am Subject: Re: Chris Capener -- "Funky Fish" programmer stefanpiasecki > off with overly-long or complicated communications. So far, it is > working. I'll post the final results when we're done talking, etc. > > And thanks again to Mike, for his wonderful detective work! > > -- Ward Shrake -- Perfect, I would like to know why this game in particular is so hard to find and ultra-rare. Did the development take so long and was the game just too late? Or is the reason even more simple: was it just not action-packed enough (with cute fishes on te box)? Is it complete? I mean it is so incredibly easy that it just seems to be almost impossible to really die in the game. Playing FF I always ran out of time (work to do, phone ringing etc.). I never *had* to stop. So maybe it just wasn't tweaked enough. So if you are preparing your list of questions, can you please add this? And I would like to know if he is still playing games and which (besides what he is doing now - gosh, he must be *old* now). Stefan 305 From: "slydc" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 11:45am Subject: Re: All work and no play slydc Ha!ha!ha1ha! I have only this in mind after reading the story: Waka! Waka! Wak! Gobble-Gobble...Waka! Waka! --- Sly DC --- 306 From: "RodansRaiders" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 1:09pm Subject: BIG NEWS !!! BIG NEWS!! ARCADIA 2001 FANS ONE AND ALL!!!! RodansRaiders Just recently I was approached by our local legion, would like to have our group a place to meet. They will provide tables at no cost, admittance to members of the Arcadia 2001 and clones would be free and they would provide advertising free of charge. As for sleeping they are motels located just a few miles from Winnebago, MN. She felt we could have it this year, or in 2003 during July or August. We could pick the dates we would want. Please email me if you would be interested in doing this, or reply to message boards. Konrad@... 307 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 2:00pm Subject: Re: Chris Capener -- "Funky Fish" programmer slapdash26 Mike, nice job tracking him down. I tried a little and had no success... At 4:00 PM -0400 4/18/02, Matthew Robert Reichert wrote: >Did he do the Arcadia version of Funky Fish or the 2600 version? Definitely worth asking about -- even if he DIDN'T do them, who did? >Are you taking questions to ask him yet? Lord knows I have a few >"non-technical" questions for him. ...Not least of which is "any idea how to contact Andrew Choi?". :-) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 308 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 4:06pm Subject: Re: Chris Capener -- "Funky Fish" programmer commie_fan Here is what we have so far. I'm still asking questions. He has already given us quite a bit, and I for one am grateful for it. We are doing what we can to make this painless for him, and not scare him off with too many questions. Apparently, one other researcher feels he may have done this in the past, so we're being very gentle. -- Ward Shrake -- [Notes from Chris Capener, to Michael Davidson:] "Yes, I worked on Funky Fish and Jumpman Jr. (ColecoVision). UA Limited was a Hong Kong based company. I think they did OEM electronics manufacturing for various companies. So, I believe they were the contract manufacturer for Emerson. Funky Fish was the reason I first came to Silicon Valley. I had a three month contract to write the game for the Arcadia console. I took a leave of absence from my current job and moved out to the San Jose, CA area. During that time I met a programmer at StarPath and took a job there when Funky Fish was done. StarPath was later bought out by Epyx, where I ported Jumpman Jr. from the Commodore to Colecovision. All these games were written in assembly language. So porting meant playing it on one console and then writing the code and re-creating the graphics for the target system. Once I was here in Silicon Valley, I never went back." [Notes from Chris Capener, to Ward Shrake:] "This goes back a long time. I remember having the arcade game and some notes to work from. A former college roommate was related to an officer (president?) of UA. He approached me with the contract offer. I had a development system from Signetics with manuals for the processor and chipset of the console. I did not have contact with any other programmers. It was pretty much learn as you go. I believe that some utility routines and sample code came with the development system. Sorry, I have no information on licensing or other ports of the games." [end of notes] 309 From: "billlagr" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 10:16pm Subject: Re: Arcadia assemblers and programming billlagr I contacted Signetics, a number of times. They either (depending on who replied) had no idea what I was wanting, or said they no longer had data on it. I'm _positive_ I've seen one somewhere, but I'll be f****ed if I can find it again.. Bill > I used Google Groups to contact those people who have, over the years, > posting messages looking data sheets for the 2636 or 2637. I've had a few > replies, but nobody has found any info. I called the local library for > advice and they helped me search and gave me some advice (but it didn't > help). I don't suppose that any of YOU has been sitting on the info, just > waiting for someone like me to ask for it? (I didn't think so...). > > Has anyone found the Arcadia memory map yet? Does anyone here have 2650 > experience (I've have NONE). The syntax is weird, and I could use some > pointers (uh, help, that is- not 'pointers.'). I can't get my > hand-disassembly of 'chartest.bin' to match the DASMx disassembly. > > Has anyone done investigation into this area of the Arcadia? > > Adam 310 From: "billlagr" Date: Fri Apr 19, 2002 10:22pm Subject: Re: Arcadia assemblers and programming billlagr Seen a memory map that is :) All Ive seen for the 2636/37 are lots of ppl asking if anyone has any info.. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "billlagr" wrote: > I contacted Signetics, a number of times. They either (depending on > who replied) had no idea what I was wanting, or said they no longer > had data on it. > I'm _positive_ I've seen one somewhere, but I'll be f****ed if I can > find it again.. > > Bill > > I used Google Groups to contact those people who have, over the > years, > > posting messages looking data sheets for the 2636 or 2637. I've > had a few > > replies, but nobody has found any info. I called the local library > for > > advice and they helped me search and gave me some advice (but it > didn't > > help). I don't suppose that any of YOU has been sitting on the > info, just > > waiting for someone like me to ask for it? (I didn't think so...). > > > > Has anyone found the Arcadia memory map yet? Does anyone here have > 2650 > > experience (I've have NONE). The syntax is weird, and I could use > some > > pointers (uh, help, that is- not 'pointers.'). I can't get my > > hand-disassembly of 'chartest.bin' to match the DASMx disassembly. > > > > Has anyone done investigation into this area of the Arcadia? > > > > Adam 311 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 0:43am Subject: Arcadia Cartridge ROM Area ($0000-$07FFF?) atrionfo Does the Arcadia cartridge ROM start at 0000h, or some other address? It doesn't seem that anyone has come across a memory map of the System-- but do we at least have THIS information? Adam 312 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 0:32am Subject: Created and uploaded 2650 Relative Jump Branch Tables atrionfo I created two 7-bit relative jump tables (for backward and forward jumps); these tables are quick-references for anyone trying to get a grip (or overview) of Signetics 2650 used Arcadia. Since there is so little progrmaming material available for this machine I put these tables together for anyone else that might be looking into hand-disassembling a ROM image (or is following an assembly listing created with DASMx). The file is called '7-bit_branch_table.txt' (it is in the file area of the message board). I'm including the text file in this message because it contains a few tid-bits of info that might be of general interest. Adam Signetics 2650 7-Bit Relative Branch Table By Adam Trionfo - April 19, 2002 Version 1.0 The Signetics 2650 CPU relative addressing scheme is 7-bit, meaning the address range is -64 to +63 bytes. Forward jumps are the decimal equivalent of the hex off-set, so 00h to 3Fh are forward jumps 0 to 63. Backward jumps are calculated by two's compliment, therefore 7Fh to 40h are backward jumps 1 to 64. Luckily the programmer doesn't usually calculate these hex off-sets because the 2650 assembler calculates the off-set from the label that follows the op-code. During hand-done assembly or disassembly these off-sets must be calculated; I made this 7-bit relative branch table to alleviate this problem (it's a great quick-reference). Forward Relative Branch Table 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F LSD +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ 0 | 0| 1| 2| 3| 4| 5| 6| 7| 8| 9|10|11|12|13|14|15| +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ 1 |16|17|18|19|20|21|22|23|24|25|26|27|28|29|30|31| +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ 2 |32|33|34|35|36|37|38|39|40|41|42|43|44|45|46|47| +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ 3 |48|49|50|51|52|53|54|55|56|57|58|59|60|61|62|63| +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ MSD Backward Relative Branch Table 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F LSD +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ 4 |64|63|62|61|60|59|58|57|56|55|54|53|52|51|50|49| +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ 5 |48|47|46|45|44|43|42|41|40|39|38|37|36|35|34|33| +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ 6 |32|31|30|29|28|27|26|25|24|23|22|21|20|19|18|17| +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ 7 |16|15|14|13|12|11|10| 9| 8| 7| 6| 5| 4| 3| 2| 1| +--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+--+ MSD For a full explanation of relative addressing as used on the 2650, see page 48 of the "Signetics 2650 User Manual." The manual is available here: http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/processors/2650/2650UM.pdf End of Document 313 From: slapdash Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 0:55am Subject: Re: Re: Arcadia assemblers and programming slapdash26 On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, billlagr wrote: > Seen a memory map that is :) All Ive seen for the 2636/37 are lots of > ppl asking if anyone has any info.. I thought I'd look around a little, since we're in this weird stasis at work right now... I found a mention of the Zaccaria arcade game Scorpion, on some sort of emulation page (http://216.239.39.100/search?q=cache:Ayue4BsZ4wQC:space.tin.it/clubnet/pubcpa/i-zaccaria.html+%22signetics+2636%22&hl=en) that has this to say: "Scorpion Horizontal-scrolling space game. ROM has been dumped, but emulation is difficult because of the presence of the Signetics 2636 graphic chip. However, this chip is no longer an absolute mistery! StpHinkle wrote: The Signetics 2636 was figured out by Mike Coates. The CVS games in MAME 37b10 use the signetics 2636 graphics controller. Zaccaria may be on the way into MAME in the future as well. Update: Mike Coates is working on a Scorpion PCB. " It might be possible to find Mike Coates and see what he knows? The CVS arcade games also used the 2636 apparently. Oddly enough, I have a couple CVS games, but I don't think I have any docs. I will check, though even if there are docs, I don't think they'll cover the 2636. But perhaps tracking down some arcade collectors offline (since the collectors & emulators online don't seem to have the info either) might strike gold?? I know one guy I should ask about this, and will try to "soon". -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 314 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 5:38am Subject: Re: Arcadia assemblers and programming commie_fan For what it is worth, I just sent an e-mail to PeT, the former MESS emulation author. I asked him for anything he might have, that he would be willing to share with us and let us post online here. I did specifically ask for a memory map and a disassembly of the short program he wrote to dump the onboard ROM's (limited) character set. -- Ward Shrake -- 315 From: "kiwigame" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 6:08am Subject: Re: Arcadia assemblers and programming kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash wrote: > On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, billlagr wrote: > But perhaps tracking down some arcade collectors offline (since the > collectors & emulators online don't seem to have the info either) > might strike gold?? > > I know one guy I should ask about this, and will try to "soon". Well I've asked one guy who should know & thats, Al Kossow who's website the 2650 info. is on. (spies.com) Some of you have probably seen his requests around the place for info. on the 2636 as well. He told me he has been trying for years to get the info. without any luck - including going to Signetics and asking for access to there archives... Cheers Mike 316 From: slapdash Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:39am Subject: Re: Re: Arcadia assemblers and programming slapdash26 Not to follow up my own post, but... On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, slapdash wrote: > "StpHinkle wrote: > The Signetics 2636 was figured out by Mike Coates. The CVS games in MAME > 37b10 use the signetics 2636 graphics controller. Zaccaria may be on the > way into MAME in the future as well." Mike Coates is mentioned on the page below... I didn't read all the way through it at first, but there's some info that might be helpful? http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt I've already tried to contact "Cyberyogi" to see if there's more, or if he's found more of the books. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 317 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 10:31am Subject: Interton tech data uploaded into file area atrionfo I followed the link that Russ posted (http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt) about Interton 4000 material. It's quite lengthy. If you're only interested in the hardware data, it's all summed up in a posting at the bottom. I cut and paste this summary into a new document called "acetronic_tech_doc.txt" and then uploaded it into the Arcadia file section. The text file states, "This document describes the internal workings of the Acetronic / Prinztronic / Radofin / Interton / Waddingtons series of computers." The information in the file is of interest to those seeking Interton information-- I'm not sure how relevent it is to the Arcadia (the book's still out on just how "compatible" the two systems are-- but let's not get into THAT again). Adam 318 From: "kiwigame" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 6:09am Subject: Re: Arcadia assemblers and programming kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash wrote: > On Fri, 19 Apr 2002, billlagr wrote: > > Seen a memory map that is :) All Ive seen for the 2636/37 are lots of > > ppl asking if anyone has any info.. > > I thought I'd look around a little, since we're in this weird stasis > at work right now... > > I found a mention of the Zaccaria arcade game Scorpion, on some sort > of emulation page > (http://216.239.39.100/search? q=cache:Ayue4BsZ4wQC:space.tin.it/clubnet/pubcpa/i-zaccaria.html+% 22signetics+2636%22&hl=en) > that has this to say: > > "Scorpion > > Horizontal-scrolling space game. > > ROM has been dumped, but emulation is difficult because of the presence > of the Signetics 2636 graphic chip. However, this chip is no longer an > absolute mistery! > > StpHinkle wrote: > The Signetics 2636 was figured out by Mike Coates. The CVS games in MAME > 37b10 use the signetics 2636 graphics controller. Zaccaria may be on the > way into MAME in the future as well. > > Update: Mike Coates is working on a Scorpion PCB. > " > > It might be possible to find Mike Coates and see what he knows? > > The CVS arcade games also used the 2636 apparently. Oddly enough, > I have a couple CVS games, but I don't think I have any docs. I > will check, though even if there are docs, I don't think they'll > cover the 2636. > > But perhaps tracking down some arcade collectors offline (since the > collectors & emulators online don't seem to have the info either) > might strike gold?? > > I know one guy I should ask about this, and will try to "soon". > -- > //*================================================================+ + > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// 319 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 2:31pm Subject: chartest.asm and chartest.pdf - 2650 assembly source atrionfo I uploaded two 2650 assembly language files into the file area: 1) chartest.pdf - Chartest displays the Arcadia's internal character set. You will find this group of three printouts helpful if you are looking into programming the Arcadia. I couldn't find any programming example source-code, so I disassembled a short ROM image and made an example for myself. Included: 2650 assembly source, plus assembly listing output, and 24 byte object file (printed from a hex editor). 2) chartest.asm - Disassembled and commented Signetics 2650 source for chartest.bin that is suitable for assembly using VACS (which is available on this page too). This assembly source file is also included in the chartest pdf file, but this is needed if you want to assemble the program). Note that I didn't write chartest- I only disassembled and commented it. For those that have not seen the binary file, it's also available in the file area (Ward uploaded it). Adam 320 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 11:21am Subject: 2650 Assembler that Accepts Signetics Number Format atrionfo April 19, 2002 I am using DASMx 1.30 to disassemble some ROMs with 2650 code- it works well. I want to assemble the 2650 disassembly (and new source) that uses the Signetics Number Format (i.e. H'F12C' rather than 0F12Ch). I only know of two cross-assemblers- Frankenstein and VACS V1.2x. Neither of these accept Signetics Number Formatted source-- any recommendations? Adam Trionfo P.S. Following is an example of DASMx output-- it's accurate (I checked the listing against the binary image file and also hand-disassembled the code). I want an assembler that will accept source-code files like this: org H'0000' ; eorz r0 bctr,un L0004 retc,un ; L0004: ppsu H'20' lodi,r0 H'00' L0008: stra,r0 X1800,r0 addi,r0 H'01' comi,r0 H'40' bcfr,eq L0008 lodi,r0 H'07' stra,r0 X19F9 L0016: bctr,un L0016 321 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Apr 20, 2002 4:29pm Subject: TECH: Emerson family cartridge circuit boards commie_fan Here is a bit of my upcoming DPCG Arcadia 2001 section. It is all about the various Emerson family cartridge circuit board models, and which ones are good for homebrew cart efforts, etc. The numbers are taken from markings found on all Emerson family boards. -- Ward Shrake -- #291-3: Made for use with one 4k or smaller user-programmable EPROM chip. As long as 4k is enough memory, this is the ideal circuit board to use, if you want to do something like Randy Crihfield of "Hozer Video" does for Atari 2600 VCS carts. Just remove the existing EPROM and put a standard 24-pin chip socket on the board. It is then ready to accept any programmed 4k or smaller EPROM chip. With skilled technical modifications, you can use this board for use with up to 8k games. This is a short board; it measures 1.9 inches tall. It will fit inside either a short or long style cart case. Can be found in either case style. #291-1: Made for use with one 4k or smaller pre-manufactured masked ROM chip. Short board style. If you remove the existing chip and put a socket on the board, you can play any game you have in masked ROM form. You cannot directly use an EPROM chip, but skilled techs can adapt these boards for use with them. Will not work with 6k or 8k game programs without skilled technical modification. Can be found inside either case style. #291: Made for use with two separate 2k or 4k pre-manufactured masked ROMs, for programs up to 8k total. Can not be used with EPROM chips without skilled technical modification. Long board style (5.125 inches tall) will not fit inside short cart cases. Will only be found inside long style carts that use more than 4k of memory. #291-2: Made for use with two separate 2k or 4k user-programmable EPROMs, for programs up to 8k total. Simply remove the two existing EPROM chips, install two sockets, and program two 4k EPROM chips to have a copy of any 8k game. Long board style will not fit inside short cart cases. Will only be found inside long style carts that use more than 4k of memory. #292-4: Made for use with one single 8k masked ROM chip. Can be modified by a skilled technician to work with an 8k user-programmable EPROM chip. Short style board will fit into either the short or long style cart cases. Seems to be used most often in the later programs, which are probably always inside long style cases. Harder to find than some of the other board types. [end of list] 322 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 1:06am Subject: Signetics databooks atrionfo I searched the Amazon.com Zshops (used books) for keyword Signetics. There are about Signetics one-hundred databooks, some of them dating back to 1974. The 2636 and 2637 chips probably are in one of them, but which one? I'll buy the book and scan in the information we need if anyone can give reasonable assurances on how to decide on the right book. Here's a direct link to the page: http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-url/104-3411982-4575145?ix=fixed-price&rank=%2Ditm&fqp=org-unit-id%014%02site-org-unit-id%014%02status%01open%02title%01signetics&sz=3&pg=1%26field-enddate%3D0a-&size=50/104-3411982-4575145 You can also just go to Amazon.com and do the search for "Signetics" yourself if the above link doesn't work. Adam 323 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:32am Subject: TECH: Notes from emulator authors now available commie_fan See the files section for a text called "arcadia.txt". It is the info that was originally written by Paul Robson, and then later added to by Peter Trauner (who prefers to be called "PeT" online). Paul wrote the original stand-alone Arcadia 2001 emulator, and PeT took Paul's code and integrated it into MESS, making some improvements in it. Lots of good technical information available in this 13k text. -- Ward Shrake -- 324 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:24am Subject: Re: TECH: Notes from emulator authors now available commie_fan Something I forgot to mention earlier... "PeT" reminded me that the source code of MESS is available online, on the MESS home page. (See the files section, under Emulation, for that pre-existing link.) PeT suggests that any interested parties should see... mess/vidhrdw/arcadia.c ...and... mess/systems/arcadia.c ...for more technical info; to include "ROM content, simple uvi2637 init, fill screen routines, keyboard polling," etc. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > See the files section for a text called "arcadia.txt". It is the info > that was originally written by Paul Robson, and then later added to > by Peter Trauner (who prefers to be called "PeT" online). Paul wrote > the original stand-alone Arcadia 2001 emulator, and PeT took Paul's > code and integrated it into MESS, making some improvements in it. > > Lots of good technical information available in this 13k text. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 325 From: "ventrra" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 3:59am Subject: Re: Signetics databooks ventrra While I was there earlier (before I saw your message) it only gave me a list of 50, many of which were repeats of each other. I have already ordered "Signetics Bipolar/MOS Microprocessor Data Manual", so that will narrow your list by one book, anyway. If there's anything relevant in it I'll, of course, post it after I get it. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I searched the Amazon.com Zshops (used books) for keyword Signetics. There > are about Signetics one-hundred databooks, some of them dating back to 1974. > The 2636 and 2637 chips probably are in one of them, but which one? I'll > buy the book and scan in the information we need if anyone can give > reasonable assurances on how to decide on the right book. Here's a direct > link to the page: > > http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/search-handle-url/104-3411982- 4575145?ix=fixed-price&rank=%2Ditm&fqp=org-unit-id%014%02site-org- unit-id%014%02status%01open%02title%01signetics&sz=3&pg=1%26field- enddate%3D0a-&size=50/104-3411982-4575145 > > You can also just go to Amazon.com and do the search for "Signetics" > yourself if the above link doesn't work. > > Adam 326 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 4:09am Subject: RUMOR: Signetics development system commie_fan While going over my upcoming guide section, I started thinking about something in a different light. Listed in the "rumor mill" section are a few hardware items that were once said to be in the planning stages. Among them was a cassette drive and a keyboard. My guide write-up basically said "horse s**t" to those items being real. I kind of figured that no such thing ever existed, and that it was just another one of the vaporware hardware improvements that so many companies claimed they'd release "later," but never got around to it. But maybe this is another one of those dangerous assumptions that I'm always preaching about? If Chris Capener ("Funky Fish" author) was given what he called a development system, from the UA Limited people, then maybe I have to rethink my stance on the keyboard and tape drive? I'm going to ask Chris to describe that system better. I have to wonder now if it was basically a "super console" of some sort, with a keyboard and a tape drive... or an unrelated system? -- Ward Shrake -- 327 From: "slydc" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 4:36am Subject: Keyboard thing... slydc You don't have to "assume" anymore that there was supposed to be a keyboard that was going to be released, it were. Just check out tin the "Photos" section under the name "Home Vision". It all describde in the "the-list" i've sent you. Looks like abit like the Creativision don't you think ?! --- Sly DC --- 328 From: "slydc" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 5:11am Subject: Cart #50 to be dumped! slydc Finally find some time today to take pictures of the cart #50 to be dumped (if it can). I'm talking about the Video-Lexicon aka Dictionnary Cart. This cart is the weirdest i've ever seen (and own). You insert x2 mini-cartridge in the cartridge itself. Since i don't have a Palladium or a Polybrain, i can't test it if it works or not. Each mini-cart has a single ROM i them, and in the major cart, it has the two slots for both mini-carts, one ROM and a 74LS138N TTL. The main ROM has the following inscription: CN45059N 8039. For the English cart, it has: CN45058N 8036, and for the German cart, it has: CN45057N 8039. All three has a "S" for Signetic. I've just took a picture of the "guts" of each carts, it will be uiploaded right after this message is posted. So, just wondering, is this cart the rarest of them all for the Acadia 2001 and family ? --- Sly DC --- 329 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 6:12am Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > Finally find some time today to take pictures of the cart #50 to be > dumped (if it can). I'm talking about the Video-Lexicon aka > Dictionnary Cart. This cart is the weirdest i've ever seen (and own). Hi Sly, I have the cart too and the two daughter-cards. I can scan you the overlays if you need them. I don't have a manual but it only takes a bit of practise to find out how it works. You can even translate some small and easy sentences. For what is was and for its time, I think it was pretty advanced (and sadly underrated). Don't forget that the other first translator programs for the C64 or the IBM came out either later or were much more expensive. By the way, a strange thing I noticed is that as the Palladium system is not very stable and you have to reset sometimes, you sometimes see Spanish and French things on the screen, as if there were other versions planned as well. I have sent some screenshots about this to Ward some moons ago. Maybe after he finished his guide he might have some times to load them up. I have opened some of my Palladium carts today and scanned the ROM numbers. I send this pic to Ward (sorry Ward for the pic being a bit huge, but I wanted you to be able to see something so I didn't reduce the quality too much). Have fun Stefan 330 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 7:05am Subject: Re: Arcadia Cartridge ROM Area ($0000-$07FFF?) commie_fan It looks like we do have a memory map now, thanks to the work of Paul Robson and PeT; the emulator authors. (See files section.) While looking over various carts as I had archived them, it was really weird to see some things pointing to them having a really hard time making carts that were larger than 4k in ROM memory size. Now I can see why, to some extent... the memory banks are not contiguous!? The first four kilobytes are all one big chunk, but then the second bank for most 6k and 8k carts runs off to another whole area of memory, much higher up. And Golf, which never wanted to work on the Arcadia console itself, apparently uses a completely different area of memory for its upper 2k bank, above 4k. Talk about a cluster-(bleep) of major proportions? If this was pre- planned this way, you could have fooled me? Just more weirdness, on this console. I guess I should be used to it, by now? -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Does the Arcadia cartridge ROM > start at 0000h, or some other address? > It doesn't seem that anyone has come > across a memory map of the System-- but > do we at least have THIS information? > > Adam 331 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 7:10am Subject: Dumb idea: programming project commie_fan If you guys are looking for a way to test your new-found coding abilities, then feel free to work on the GOLF program. It will not currently run in an Arcadia console; it only runs on some odd-ball MPT-03 system, with addressing lines no other cart ever had, in my experience. What it needs is a patch of some sort, so that its upper 2k (out of 6k total) memory bank runs in the same area that most other cart's upper 2k / 4k banks run in. -- Ward Shrake -- 332 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 7:35am Subject: Last chance to keep the guide accurate! commie_fan There is only a week or so for me to get my Arcadia 2001 and VIC-20 sections 100% finished and turned in, ready to go to press. I need you guys to look over my online cart lists, and to make 100% sure that everything is correct. http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts.htm Note that I added a completely new cart list, sorted by part numbers. I know we are still missing many carts. I have already entered every single one I have information on... including the lists that you guys all sent me. I *know* there has to be at least a few errors in this list, because in some cases, you guy's lists did NOT match up. (Part numbers, especially.) Please also double-and-triple check spelling... I want that correct. Also, check company names... is it really "GiG Leonardo" as Sly DC had in his original big list? Or is is "Leonardo" as used to be seen in various, much older internet cart lists? Basically, check everything over closely. If the guide goes to press with incorrect information, some people will still be hanging on to "Digital Press Collectors Guide" version 7.0 when version 10.0 is released, and they will still be telling us (individually) that we are wrong when we say something, "because the guide says so". This console group is enough of a mess... I don't want to add to it! -- Ward Shrake -- 333 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 7:59am Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! commie_fan Hey, Sly and Stefan: now that I've seen the newly uploaded Dictionary photos, with the mini-carts, I have to ask this... what is the pin spacing on the mini-carts? (I notice that there are 15 pins across, a 24-pin chip, and a 28-pin socket.) The photo makes it seem like the pin spacing is 0.1 inch per pin, or exactly the same as a standard chip. If that is true, it is one more thing to add to our "think about" pile, since it would be the same number of pins and the same pin spacing as Emerson family cartridges. -- Ward Shrake -- 334 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 8:56am Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > I have opened some of my Palladium > carts today and scanned the ROM > numbers. I send this pic to Ward > (sorry Ward for the pic being a bit > huge, but I wanted you to be able > to see something so I didn't reduce > the quality too much). > Have fun > Stefan No worries, on the 1.6 meg picture file. My e-mail is pretty good about things like that. When I was with AOL, Lord only knows, there is no way that one would have gotten through intact! I read the info off of the chips, and integrated it into the "ROM date" list. So far, Stefan's Palladium games are in the "I was first" lead, with MPT-03 games not far behind. Emerson is WAY back there. :-) See my web site's lists; links are up in the bookmarks section. -- Ward Shrake -- 335 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 9:31am Subject: Re: Arcadia Cartridge ROM Area ($0000-$07FFF?) atrionfo >> Now I can see why, to some extent... the memory banks are not contiguous!? >> Yes, I noticed the non-contiguous ROM area this afternoon when I was reading "Technical Information about the Emerson Arcadia Family." A summary of the map is: 0000 - 0FFF - (4K) - Cartridge ROM (first half) 1000 - 1FFF - (4K) - Arcadia RAM / ROM 2000 - 2FFF - (4K) - Cartridge ROM (second half) 3000 - 7FFF - (20K) - Unknown That accounts for all 32K that is addressable by a 2650 CPU. Now, Ward, that's where your "impossible" 28K of RAM probably comes from. The Colecovision Adam was sold as an 80K machine (they counted the ROM); it would be an easy step for some advertising executive to dream up some scheme to claim that since the RAM and ROM of the Arcadia take up only 4K of space out of an addressable range of 32K, that leaves 28K left. Ah, that magic number: 28. Who cares if the 2650 CPU can only address in 8K banks (would the thinking have even have progressed THAT far?) It's not 28K of RAM, it's not even 28K of ROM, it's just 28K- a number that could be massaged to be ANYTHING. Is it impossible to imagine an advertising person in some dank, musty cellar office, sitting at a desk presuming, lying, or misunderstanding that there is 28K of RAM in the Arcadia system? Adam 336 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 9:36am Subject: Memory map holes and yet, GOOD emulation atrionfo The Arcadia memory map that is in "Technical Information about the Emerson Arcadia" answers some of the basic questions about the system, but it doesn't answer everything (it answers enough to keep me full). Since the 2637 isn't completely understood I can't understand how the emulator programmers (the author's of the technical article) were able to pull off descent Arcadia emulation. Give me some of what THEY are eating for breakfast. Adam 337 From: "slydc" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 9:58am Subject: Re: Last chance to keep the guide accurate! slydc Hi Ward, It is the Gig Electronics Leonardo, just check out the web site of Fabrizio Pedrazzini (The Strange (and Rare) Videogame Pics Page). You'll see some tiny scans of boxes, a picture of the Leonardo and the box and the logo's company. --- Sly DC --- 338 From: "slydc" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 10:14am Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! slydc It's exactly the same spacing as Arcadia 2001 chip pins. If compared one mini-cart chip with a Space Attack chip, same spacing. I'll lend it to you Ward after the PhillyClassic if you think that it can be dumped. If it can be dumped, i'll try to translate the ROM English to French IF the words are written in text in the ROM that is. --- Sly DC --- 339 From: "slydc" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 0:48pm Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! slydc Hi Stefan, So you too have this cart ? Kewl! I would really appreciate if you can send me the scans (or post them here), it will come in handy when i'll get myself a Palladium one day. So there's seem that the Paladium has a problem, but it is just yours or you tested some others Palladium as well ? And if i can get a Palladium, think i'll built myself an adapter, which can play MPT-03, Palladium, etc... --- Sly DC --- 340 From: "billlagr" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:20pm Subject: For Sale on Ebay billlagr if anyones interested... 13 x Hanimex/Acetronic/Radofin carts http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1347389178 Bill 341 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 2:41pm Subject: Voltmace and Grandstand Database Carts tempest_2084 Are Voltamce and Grandstand Database carts MPT-03 compatible? They look like they're the same size, and some of the games have the same titles. Something tells me that they're different though... Tempest 342 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sun Apr 21, 2002 6:49pm Subject: Palladium & Lexikon overlays : was: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! stefanpiasecki Bonjour, I owned about 7 Palladiums so far and came across another Mr. Altus system that I bought for Tempest and that I tested. All of them are somewhat unstable. An interesting note: when using the Intercon console you have to "load" the games by pressing a special key. With the Palladium I cannot remember that any game ever started after turning the console on. You always have to press Reset to make the game appear on the screen. This is what I call unstable (because even then you often have to take the cart out again and try another time or switch on and off the console many times). The manual doesn't say anything about this (unlike the Interton where they say that you must "load" the games) but I think that you indeed have to press Reset to make the games load. I'll try to scan the overlays for you but I am very busy. So if you didn't get them by Tuesday, please, feel free to REMIND me of that. I won't be bothered. Cheers Stefan 343 From: "slydc" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 2:04am Subject: Palladium & Lexikon overlays : was: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! slydc Bonjour Stefan, No problem, i'm not in a hurry. Take your time. You just reminded me to scan some Palladium games before i take them to the Philly. --- Sly DC --- 344 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:26am Subject: Ward: Palladium game numbers and titles stefanpiasecki Hi Ward, following your request for confirmation of the Palladium titles, here are the names and numbers of those games I have (can somebody please let me know if there are any other games missing that I don't have?). Title, Number, Unique to the Palladium or Arcadia name (some games unique to the P. also exist on the MPT-03 platform, games existing on the Arcadia that also exist for the MPT-03 weren't specially marked) Video-Fussball, 775/010, Soccer (NOT 3D Soccer) Basketball, 775/029, MPT-03 Basketball Weltraum-Abenteuer, 775/037, Space Mission Video-M?hle, 775/045, Capture Intelligenz-sbung, 775/053, Brain Quiz Invasion aus dem Weltall, 775/061, Alien Invaders Video-Schach, 775/088, Star Chess Video-Autorennen, 775/096, unique (title-screen says "Grand Prix de Monaco") Video-Lexikon, 775/118, unique Video-Panzerspiel, 775/126, unique Video-Bowling, 775/134, 3D Bowling Video-Breakout, 775/142, Breakout Seeschlacht, 775/150, Ocean Battle Angriff der Ufos, 775/169, Missile War Pferderennen, 775/177, MPT-03 Horse Racing Escape, 775/231, Escape If you look at the numbers, then it becomes apparent that with increasing numbers the games became more complex and also graphically more interesting. From the simple Soccer game and those board-game conversions to the more advanced games like "Video-Panzerspiel", "Video-Autorennen" or "Pferderennen". Do these numbers have something to do to the production dates of the chips? I mean, were the lower numbers produced first in terms of the week/year info printed on the chips? Cheers Stefan 345 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:45am Subject: Ward: your game lists... stefanpiasecki I just browsed through your lists of games at http://www.classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/cart-fam.htm and have 2 remarks: a) some of the TVG games don't have numbers, but you have the game- code at the end of each entry. This game-code is always the cart- number, for example EMERSON family Schmid TVG-2000 Grand Slam Tennis __ C022 means that GST is cart #22 b) in the Leisure-Vision list I have seen some French names. Well, all the LV games show French names on one side of the box and English names on the other. I am not sure if there were French only games Then, 2 questions (can be answered later): a) in the Ormatu list we find the entry "Super Bug". I know that there was some speculation going on whether this game ever existed. Have you found any proof or screenshots in a catalogue? Is it a game we know? b) you once mentioned that you believe that in some versions of "Space Vultures" there is a boss stage. I know you are dead busy now, but please don't forget to let me know what indicates this. I would really like to know more about this as the rumoured boss stage was the reason for me to buy the game when I was about 12/13 years old and I was totally disappointed when I played the game for hours and never met anything else than those two screens that everybody knows. That's what cought my eye. Stefan 346 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:50am Subject: Tempest: Turtles on the G7000 stefanpiasecki Hi Matt, I know that you are collecting for the Philips G7000 console. Do you have that Turtles game? Afaik it is the same game than on the Arcadia. Can you check? Is there a copyright notice? Thanks Stefan 347 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 5:57am Subject: RE: Tempest: Turtles on the G7000 tempest_2084 I don't have Turtles for the G7000, but I have it for the Odyssey^2. It is the same game (based on the arcade game), and the copyright date is 83. Tempest -----Original Message----- From: stefanpiasecki [mailto:stefanpiasecki@...] Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:51 PM To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Tempest: Turtles on the G7000 Hi Matt, I know that you are collecting for the Philips G7000 console. Do you have that Turtles game? Afaik it is the same game than on the Arcadia. Can you check? Is there a copyright notice? Thanks Stefan To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 348 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:22am Subject: chartest disassembly version 1.1 atrionfo I have uploaded another version of the disassembly ("chartest.asm")into the file area (as well as an updated "chartest.pdf"). Now that a mostly complete memory map is available I was able to comment what each line of code is doing. I made the comments very easy to follow so that even if you have no idea what the code is doing, you'll still have a good understanding of what the program is doing. If you DO know some machine language, then this source code can be considered a tutorial (of sorts) to get you started on the Arcadia version of Quake III. Thanks to Paul Robson and PeT for writting the Arcadia technical information article (that contains the memory map)- I wouldn't have known about the background color change or the beginning of the Arcadia's screen display without it. Adam 349 From: "kiwigame" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:56am Subject: Re: Voltmace and Grandstand Database Carts (VC-4000 related) kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > Are Voltamce and Grandstand Database carts MPT-03 compatible? They look > like they're the same size, and some of the games have the same titles. > Something tells me that they're different though... No - they are definaetly different but the fact that both share the "Database" name has caused mucho confusion in the past. The Voltmace/Waddingtons/Videomaster "Database" is a VC-4000 compatible system. (an adapter exists to run VC-4000 carts on the Database) Most of the Voltmace "Database" games are the same as the VC4000 games but there are at least 2 titles that are unique to this system. The ones I know of are Munch&Crunch & Leapfrog (developed by Voltmace) & great games they are - easily the best on the system. They have title screens & attract modes! woohooo I've promised a few VC4000 guys screenshots of these in the past & have finally done it... See the bottom of! http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/fountain.htm (Note on the bottom Leapfrog picture each truck has a letter on it... These spell out VOLTMACE as they go by) My next project is to open up my Waddingtons/Voltmace/Videomaster standalone "Star Chess" console to see if I can work out if its using Arcadia related hardware inside... http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/starches.jpg Cheers Mike 350 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 7:25am Subject: Tunix Cart Confirmation mrhaboobi Can Anyone here confirm that they have the following Tunix Carts Baseball Escape. Im looking for the Tunix version only, i know they came on arcadia and the carts are basically identical, so has anyone aquired an actual Tunix version with the box. Any help with this would be apprecaited, i know someone here listed they had these two games in Tunix format, but im yet to find these two games, and have only seen adverts on other boxes for them. Plus that person never replied to my posts. On a side note i dont know if anyone here collects Turbo Grafx games , but i have some Tunix machines and Games that im looking to sell or trade, Turbo grafx games would be good or maybe other Arcadia pin/rom compatible systems and software. Email Greg@... if your interested. ( I hope this last part is ok Ward? ) Also i noticed there are some Voltmace games on ebay right now, and a machine if anyone was interested ( i cant afford it right now ). Cheers Greg 351 From: "slydc" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 7:42am Subject: Re: Ward: your game lists... slydc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > > b) in the Leisure-Vision list I have seen some French names. Well, > all the LV games show French names on one side of the box and English > names on the other. I am not sure if there were French only games That i can answer since i own many Leisure-Vision (i live in Canada), and no...there were never only French games released. Either they come with the English and French titles, or only the English Titles. BUT each games comes with separate English and French manuals & overlays. --- Sly DC --- 352 From: "slydc" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 7:53am Subject: Re: Voltmace and Grandstand Database Carts (VC-4000 related) slydc Great work Micheal! It's fun to see screenshots and box covers and it's easier to know which games is which with the screenshots. At the rate it's going, both Aracadia 2001 and Interton VC 400 won't have secrets anymore. --- Sly DC --- 353 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 9:25am Subject: Arcadia "Hello World" (for emulator) atrionfo I wrote my first Arcadia program after having spent the last couple of days reading about the Signetics 2650 and the arcadia 2001. It's everyone's first program- it prints "HELLO WORLD" on the screen (White text on blue background). Oooh. It's called "hello.bin," and I uploaded it into the file section if anyone wants to take a look at it. I padded it with zereos, so the file is 2K. I also uploaded the commented assembly source code, called "hello.asm." I wrote the program so that it will print a message of any length (I made a subroutine that's basically the PRINT command from BASIC). The routine will print until it hits an End of Message delimiter (FFh). What this means in human terms is that most any message can be printed with this program. The routine will just keep printing until it gets to an FFh. I haven't fed the program any garbage characters (don't know what would show up on the screen with them), and I don't know what happens if the message fills the screen (I havn't tried it). Anyone willing to try to break it? I wanted the characters to be black (not white), but I don't know how to change the colors. The "Technical Information about the Emerson Arcadia 2001" gives you a hint, but I don't get it (at all): Here's what it says: character color ((ch&0xc0)>>5) | ((mem[0x19f9]&8)>>3) That's it. Uh, what? Can someone please explain that to me. Bits 0-2 of 19f9h control the background color, so this is saying that some other bits of 19f9h control the character color. But I don't follow this... does anyone? Adam 354 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 9:35am Subject: Arcadia Emulation game recommendations? atrionfo I've said it before: I have no experience with the Arcadia. Yet, here I am trying to program the little monster. I don't even know what for-- it's just fun. I'm looking to secure some Arcadia background so that I know what it can do. Could some people please recommend some games that I can play on the MESS emulator that stay faithful to the console? The games don't even have to be fun (though, that would be nice), but the colors should be correct and the gameplay shouldn't vary from the console experience (well, as little as possible, anyway). I'm also looking to buy the console to get the real experience. I live in the U.S., so I'm thinking that the Emerson is the one I should get. I looked on Ebay and saw a couple-- what's a fair price to pay? The system doesn't have to be boxed- it just has to work. Adam 355 From: "ventrra" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 2:27pm Subject: Re: Arcadia "Hello World" (for emulator) ventrra Adam, If you don't mind me asking: How are you getting these to assemble? I get error messages when I try it, so I was wondering what specific commands you are using to get the file created. (It may be that my computer is causing the problems I'm having, but knowing how someone else is getting it to work would help me isolate the problem.) Thank you for reading this: Charles Morgan 356 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 3:16pm Subject: Re: Arcadia "Hello World" (for emulator) mess@... Hello Adam, > I wrote my first Arcadia program after having spent the last couple of days > reading about the Signetics 2650 and the arcadia 2001. It's everyone's > first program- it prints "HELLO WORLD" on the screen (White text on blue > background). Oooh. > > It's called "hello.bin," and I uploaded it into the file section if anyone > wants to take a look at it. I padded it with zereos, so the file is 2K. I > also uploaded the commented assembly source code, called "hello.asm." > > I wrote the program so that it will print a message of any length (I made a > subroutine that's basically the PRINT command from BASIC). The routine will > print until it hits an End of Message delimiter (FFh). What this means in > human terms is that most any message can be printed with this program. The > routine will just keep printing until it gets to an FFh. I haven't fed the > program any garbage characters (don't know what would show up on the screen > with them), and I don't know what happens if the message fills the screen (I > havn't tried it). Anyone willing to try to break it? > > I wanted the characters to be black (not white), but I don't know how to > change the colors. The "Technical Information about the Emerson Arcadia > 2001" gives you a hint, but I don't get it (at all): Here's what it says: > > character color ((ch&0xc0)>>5) | ((mem[0x19f9]&8)>>3) > > That's it. Uh, what? Can someone please explain that to me. Bits 0-2 of > 19f9h control the background color, so this is saying that some other bits > of 19f9h control the character color. But I don't follow this... does > anyone? Bit 7 and 6 of the character are color bits 2 and 1 Background color bit 0 seams to be color bits 0 Please send a message to me if something with the MESS driver is not okay (and not mentioned in the crc file). PeT 357 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 4:28pm Subject: Re: Tempest: Turtles on the G7000 dieterk_ccc I played both the G7000/O2 version and the Arcadia version and they play very different. I don't think that this is somewhat a "direct port". Cheers, Dieter --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > I don't have Turtles for the G7000, but I have it for the Odyssey^2. It is > the same game (based on the arcade game), and the copyright date is 83. > > Tempest > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: stefanpiasecki [mailto:stefanpiasecki@a...] > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:51 PM > To: arcadia2001consoles@y... > Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Tempest: Turtles on the G7000 > > > Hi Matt, > I know that you are collecting for the Philips G7000 console. Do you > have that Turtles game? Afaik it is the same game than on the > Arcadia. Can you check? Is there a copyright notice? > Thanks > Stefan > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@y... > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 359 From: "oboissea" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 6:03pm Subject: Re: Voltmace and Grandstand Database Carts (VC-4000 related) oboissea > I've promised a few VC4000 guys screenshots of these in the past & > have finally done it... > See the bottom of! > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/fountain.htm Excellent work Michael! It helps a lot. Nothing better than visula information. Sorry to all you guys if I don't participate that much to the debates, but I'm very busy right now (even though I read all the posts). Hopefully I will have some spare time the next weeks, and I will bring in my info too. Keep up the good work, arcadia nerds fellows... 360 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Apr 22, 2002 8:38pm Subject: How to assemble Arcadia source code (like "hello.asm") atrionfo How to assemble Arcadia source code (like "hello.asm") By Adam Trionfo To assemble these Arcadia 2001 (Signetics 2650 CPU) programs that I've uploaded into the files area, I am using the cross-assembler VACS (ver. 1.24). This program is available on the message board in the file section; it is called "VACS50.EXE" I'm running Windows ME and it works perfectly (the docs are sparse, but the program works well). Here's a step-by-step example of how to assemble "hello.asm:" 1) Place "VACS50.EXE" into it's own directory and decompress it (just execute VACS50). I placed mine in a directory called ASM. 2) I created a working directory under ASM called WORK (that's where I put my source code, binary files, listings, etc). To make this simple, you don't need to do that. Just place 'hello.asm' into your ASM directory. 3) Now open a CLI window and go to the ASM directory. When you are there, type: asm hello.asm 4) When you've entered the command in step 3, the program will assemble in under a second. You should see output like this: VACS 2650 Cross Assembler V1.24a by A.C. Verschueren and W.H. Taphoorn. Starting First Pass Starting Second Pass 71 Source Lines 71 Assembled Lines 495000 Bytes Available >>>> No Assembly Errors Detected. <<<< 5) You now have two files in your directory, one is the object file (hello.hex) and the other is the assembly listing (hello.lst). Hello.hex is the Arcadia executable file, but it is not in a format that the emulator (or the Arcadia) can use yet; it needs to be converted to a binary file. Every other assembler I've used (for other CPUs) has an option to create binary output, but I can't find one for VACS- can anyone?) 6) I use a program called WinHex to convert hello.hex to hello.bin. This program is shareware. It is limited to working with small files (you must register it to use large files), but for our purposes (we are always working with small files) the unregistered version works great. It can be downloaded from: http://www.winhex.com/ 7) Convert the hello.hex to binary: a. Open hello.hex with Hex Edit b. Under the Edit menu, choose Convert c. Choose Intel Hex -> Binary d. Click Ok e. The program will ask, "Round up file size?" Click No. f. Your program is now in a form that the emulator can use. g. Save the file as hello.bin 8) Ward recommends padding the file to a power of two. The program works fine without doing this, but it can't hurt, so we'll make this program 2K (2048 bytes): a. In Win Hex, double-click on the last byte of the file. b. Under the Edit menu, choose Paste Zero Bytes c. The program will ask, "Append to the end of file?" Click Yes. d. The program will ask, "Number of zero bytes to insert?" We're padding to 2048 bytes, so we need 2005 zeroes added (since the binary file is now 43K. Type 2005 and click Ok. e. Confirm that the file is 2048K by looking at the File Size on the left-hand side of the screen. f. Resave hello.bin 8) Move (or copy) hello.bin into the MESS software directory and you are ready to try it out. @Charles: Let me know how this works out for you. If you have anymore trouble assembling the file, copy and paste your error message into your posting so that I can help you better. Adam Trionfo 361 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Tue Apr 23, 2002 0:07am Subject: Re: Re: Tempest: Turtles on the G7000 tempest_2084 Hmm... I guess i didn't really pay attention. How does the O2 version differ from the Arcadia version? Tempest > > I played both the G7000/O2 version and the Arcadia version and they > play very different. I don't think that this is somewhat a "direct > port". > > Cheers, > Dieter > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" > wrote: > > I don't have Turtles for the G7000, but I have it for the > Odyssey^2. It is > > the same game (based on the arcade game), and the copyright date is > 83. > > > > Tempest > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: stefanpiasecki [mailto:stefanpiasecki@a...] > > Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 3:51 PM > > To: arcadia2001consoles@y... > > Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Tempest: Turtles on the G7000 > > > > > > Hi Matt, > > I know that you are collecting for the Philips G7000 console. Do you > > have that Turtles game? Afaik it is the same game than on the > > Arcadia. Can you check? Is there a copyright notice? > > Thanks > > Stefan > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@y... > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert reicher6@... Http://www.msu.edu/~reicher6/ Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 362 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:58am Subject: Re: Tempest: Turtles on the G7000 commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matthew Robert Reichert" wrote: > Hmm... I guess i didn't really > pay attention. How does the O2 > version differ from the Arcadia > version? For comparison purposes, see the emu and ROMs at: http://www.classicgaming.com/vault/ -- Ward Shrake -- 363 From: "ventrra" Date: Tue Apr 23, 2002 3:29am Subject: Re: How to assemble Arcadia source code (like "hello.asm") ventrra Adam, OK. That worked. I have no idea what the problem is with me running asm from the "run" command in Win98, but it didn't work. Running from the DOS prompt did, however. I now have a perfectly assembled rom. Thank you: Charles >SNIP< > @Charles: Let me know how this works out for you. If you have anymore > trouble assembling the file, copy and paste your error message into your > posting so that I can help you better. > > Adam Trionfo 364 From: slapdash Date: Tue Apr 23, 2002 7:10am Subject: Re: RUMOR: Signetics development system slapdash26 On Sat, 20 Apr 2002, commie_fan wrote: > But maybe this is another one of those dangerous assumptions that I'm > always preaching about? If Chris Capener ("Funky Fish" author) was > given what he called a development system, from the UA Limited > people, then maybe I have to rethink my stance on the keyboard and > tape drive? I'm going to ask Chris to describe that system better. I > have to wonder now if it was basically a "super console" of some > sort, with a keyboard and a tape drive... or an unrelated system? I would suspect that it was most likely a computer that had tools to assemble the games, as well as maybe make sprites etc. But I know that the Interton developer I talked to mentioned that it started as a computer in a hobby magazine, and therefore things written for the computer could be run on the Interton. You could definitely use the computer for Interton dev. But the keyboard wouldn't have worked on the Interton as far as I know... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 365 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Apr 23, 2002 10:23am Subject: Wanted: NTSC Arcadia or compatible atrionfo I tried bidding on an Arcadia System today on Ebay and was hopelessly outbid (maybe because the system was boxed?). I'm looking for a working NTSC unit and at least one (common) cartridge to go with it. I'd like to see Capture because it's a 2K cart and I can probably follow a DASMx disassembly, but Cat Trax, Tanks A Lot, Escape, or Capture would be fine too (these are the 'Combats' of the Arcadia world, right?). Anyone have any spare systems or carts? I'd rather not spend a lot, if I can avoid it. Let's talk. Adam Trionfo 366 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Apr 23, 2002 1:04pm Subject: sprite.asm atrionfo I created another short assembly program that displays a user defined character on the screen (it's a happy face- sorry, I'm not an artist). The character doesn't move, or do anything. It just sits there. The code is commented and is very short. I was very surprised by how easy this was to do. The code can be easily modified to define and display all eight user-defined characters. The next step, of course, is getting the little bugger to move. Adam 367 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Tue Apr 23, 2002 5:06pm Subject: Re: RUMOR: Signetics development system dieterk_ccc > But I know that the Interton developer I talked to mentioned that it > started as a computer in a hobby magazine, and therefore things written > for the computer could be run on the Interton. You could definitely > use the computer for Interton dev. But the keyboard wouldn't have > worked on the Interton as far as I know... Well, I am having an interview with one of the Interton programmers. He is talking about this computer from the "Elektor" magazine too, where he started programming and then found out that it's almost 100% compatible to the Interton VC-4000. The interview isn't finished yet and is only in German at that time, but maybe you would like to take a look using Systransoft or other translation software. The raw version of the interview is at http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_hansheinzbieling.htm Good news is that I recently won an auction of the Elektor book that describes how to build this computer! I don't think that I have the time and skill to build this computer at the moment, but let's see ... Cheers, Dieter 368 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Apr 23, 2002 9:53pm Subject: Sprite2.asm - Displays four sprites and 4 user defined characters atrionfo I've uploaded some another Arcadia source file into the file area. To make the file area neater, I created a folder called "Assembly Source;" all the new source is there. Underneath the "Assembly Source" folder is another folder called "Source object files." This folder holds the "ROM" images of the assembly code. If you don't want to bother (or don't know how) to assemble the source files, then just download these binary files and use them with the MESS emulator. The new upload is: Sprite2.asm - Displays eight user defined characters on the screen. The characters are: Ship, UFO, Arrow, Bomb, Happy Face, Sad Face, Cross-Hair, and Explosion. The code is commented and is very short. Oh, and the graphics, having been drawn by me on home-made graph paper, are quite ugly. Adam 369 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Apr 24, 2002 7:48am Subject: "Crazy Gobbler" graphic locations atrionfo Crazy Gobbler Graphics By Adam Trionfo Version 1.0 - April 23, 2002 I'm going through "Crazy Gobbler;" here are some of the locations of in-game graphics. Memory location Description --------------- ----------- 0595h - 059Ch Ghost 1 059Dh - 05A4h Ghost 2 05A5h - 05ACh Ghost 3 05ADh - 05B4h Gobbler (mouth closed) 05B5h - 05BCh Dot (in maze) 05BDh - 05C4h Power Pellet 05C5h - 05CCh Fruit (Apple?) 05CDh - 05D4h ??? (horizontal line?) 05D5h - 05DCh Gobbler (facing up) 05DDh - 05E4h Gobbler (facing down) 05E5h - 05ECh Gobbler (facing right) 05EDh - 05F4h Gobbler (facing left) 370 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Apr 25, 2002 3:18am Subject: Disassembling "Crazy Gobbler," or Creating 100% Accurate Arcadia 2001 ROM image atrionfo Disassembling "Crazy Gobbler," or Creating 100% Accurate Arcadia 2001 ROM image By Adam Trionfo Introduction: What are We Trying to Do Here? I have disassembled the "Crazy Gobbler" ROM image using a software tool. When assembled by VACS, the source file creates a 100% identical ROM image. To test for 100% compatibility I used Ward Shrake's program 'howdif' to make sure that there are no differences between the two ROM images. For those that get sleepy when you hear references to disassemblers or assemblers, you may want to stop reading now. All others that are interested in how I did this (and how to do it yourself, using this article as an example), read on. Source: Commented or Not Commented? There are two kinds of assembler source files (as far as this article is concerned): one type of source is created with a disassembler (not commented and it is therefore hard to follow and understand) and the other type of assembly source is either original source from a cartridge [I've not seen any of this for the Arcadia, has anyone?], or source that someone disassembled and then commented. The source file I created is of the former kind (it has no comments), but it is the first step toward actually going through the source by hand and making comments. Potential Pitfalls The second line of the 100% compatible "Crazy Gobbler" assembly source is a "define byte" (db) statement, even though the second line of code ISN'T data. This doesn't create an error in the assembled ROM image because, basically, we're saying, "Hey, Mr. Assembler, ignore this for now- just create the new object code the way the other one was done." As the code is followed through by hand (THAT'S the time consuming part), changes can be made to areas that need work. Creating the "Crazy Gobbler" Assembly File. DASMx came very close to creating an assembly file that the VACS 2650 assembler could accept and assemble right away. When disassembling 2650 code, DASMx automatically creates an assembly file that uses Signetics Number Format- but the assembler will not accept source in this format. In order to change this, I needed to create a symbol file (just a plain text file) called 'crazyg.sym' that contains this one line: numformat I This line tells DASMx to use the Intel number format instead of the default Signetics format (0FFH [Intel] instead of H'FF' [Signetics]). Once I created 'crazyg.sym,' I used this command line to execute DASMx and disassemble the "Crazy Gobbler" ROM image: dasmx -c2650 -t -a -e0000 -o0000 crazyg.bin I renamed the output (crazyg.asm) to "crazytst.asm" so as not to accidentally erase or confuse my (eventual) newly assembled "Crazy Gobbler" ROM image. I used VACS to assemble "crazytst.asm" and I got about 250 errors. No problem- a quick look at the VACS output listing (crazytst.lst) told me that I needed to add some equates to the "crazytst.asm" file that was created by DASMx. I added these equates near the top of the file: z equ 0 eq equ z p equ 1 gt equ p n equ 2 lt equ n un equ 3 Now I assembled the file again and I got about 150 errors. This time a look at "crazytst.lst" told me that VACS doesn't like the format that DASMx uses for memory addresses. DASMx places an X in front of all memory addresses (i.e. X1234 refers to memory address 1234H). I read the docs for DASMx and couldn't find anyway to change this. I also looked over the docs for VACS and couldn't find anyway to make it like the X format. In the end I had to change all the references in the assembly file by hand, that took about half an hour. When I was done I assembled the file again. Wow! No errors! I managed to get all of those X address format changes done without any problems, but then there were four warnings. A look at the assembly listing file confirms a suspicion I already had; VACS doesn't like the way that DASMx sets up automatic indexing. Here's what DASM writes to the assembly file for an automatic indexed memory address: coma,r0 1800H,r3,+ VACS doesn't see the plus sign after the comma, so it complains. I just had to change the above to this: coma,r0 1800H,r3+ This change assembles correctly. "Crazy Gobbler" makes three uses of the above memory indexing (and another that used decrementing addresses, which had to be changed too). I assembled the source again and got a perfect assembly- no errors or warnings at all. Disassembly Done: Now It's All Downhill After getting an VACS assemble with no errors, I was elated. "It's all downhill from here," I thought. Happily, I was right. But I still had some work to do. The object file output of VACS is in the Intel format; I changed the Intel hex format file to plain binary and got a 2048 byte file (I used Win Hex to do this). 2048 Bytes! Yes! That matches the "Super Gobbler" ROM size perfectly! Now, I really didn't expect that the ROM image files would be exactly the same (that would be asking too much) but they are: I confirmed this with Ward Shrake's 'howdif' program (available on his technical website). One-Hundred Percent Compatible: Yes and No Now, just because the two ROM images match, doesn't mean that the assembly listing is perfectly usable. The ROM images are exactly the same, and anyone who plays the two ROM images wouldn't notice a difference (because there isn't any), but the source file is a whole other story. It may contain areas that are marked as data, but are really code. It may contain areas that are marked as code but are really data. If Choi Andrew, the programmer of "Crazy Gobbler," saw this assembly listing he probably wouldn't recognize it (well, it's been twenty years, he probably wouldn't recognize it even if it was the exact file he wrote himself). An assembler doesn't care what's data and what's not data. As long as the assembler syntax is correct VACS will assemble anything-- it doesn't care if the code is data or the data is really code; it's up to the programmer to know what is going on inside the microprocessor. "Crazy Gobbler" Source Not Available?!? I have decided not to upload the "Crazy Gobbler" source into the message board file section because it won't do most people any good without comments. If several people ask for the source, then I'll upload it- but don't expect to be able to breeze through the file-- it'll be work to understand it. I have no plans to comment the whole file; I plan to pick a couple of obvious routines to get a feel for what is going on. When I'm "done" I'll upload what I have. Now, Go Get Started! The "Technical Information about the Emerson Arcadia 2001" makes reference to some cartridge ROM routines, so Paul and PeT, in creating the emulators, have already done some investigation in this area (disassembling ROM images); they may have commented some code. Has anyone else jumped in and taken a look at Arcadia ROM images? If not, then following the steps in this document will take you a through all the steps that you need to get started. What are you waiting for? April 24, 2002 End of Document 371 From: "ventrra" Date: Fri Apr 26, 2002 0:33pm Subject: Interesting Info Contained in This Book ventrra I finally go the Signetics Bipolar/MOS Microprocessor book that I had ordered. It's a Data Manual from 1977, but the contents are very interesting. It looks like (if Signetics kept printing these books like this) that making a game system wouldn't have been all that difficult. There are diagrams and such for making a "prototyping" card, "typewriter controller" and several other things contained in it. In addition, it has a "Microcomputer Prototype Development System" shown in it with monitor, keyboard, etc. All of these things revolve around the 2650 CPU. According to this manual, there were several things like assemblers, simulators, and a "high level language" availiable. The entire instruction set for the CPU is listed in here (almost exacly like they are in the files section). This makes me wonder: Is the reason that several of the consoles are similar, but different because they used the diagrams in a guide like this and "tweaked" them to their (whomever "they" may be) own specs? 372 From: "kiwigame" Date: Fri Apr 26, 2002 2:59pm Subject: Philips & the 2650 kiwigame Just found a reference to Philips & the Videopac regarding them wanting to use a 2650 for it. Sadly the original page here: members.tripod.lycos.nl/computermuseum/cdata.html Seems to be gone (%$%$#%# tripod pages) but the google cache remains: http://216.239.39.100/search? q=cache:wOVMVetAK7MC:members.tripod.lycos.nl/computermuseum/cdata.html +2650+signetics&hl=en "I got this board van Kees from Eindhoven, he told me Philips build this board for testing the 2650 CPU which they wanted to use in the Philips G7000 series and in the Signetics, so this is a historical object." Dutch -> English translation is lacking here I suspect... Cheers Michael 373 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Apr 26, 2002 4:40pm Subject: Uploads in the Photos section.. stefanpiasecki Hi, I added some interesting thins: a) scans of the Japanese game SPACE PIRATES, which is The End really b) a scan of the only German Schmid TVG advert I've ever seen in 20+ years c) scanned overlays of the Palladium dictionary cart Have fun Stefan 374 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:22am Subject: Digital Press Collectors Guide: progress update commie_fan Hi all. Just mentioning that as of 6 AM today, my Commodore VIC-20 section of the guide is now complete. I e-mailed it in Microsoft Word format, to Joe Santulli, the guide's editor. He will convert it into its new database format, while I continue working on the Arcadia 2001 section of the guide. That will be going on, over the next week or two. And after that, man oh man, am I ever overdue for a break, away from games... unless I happen to want to play one, of course. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 375 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Apr 28, 2002 7:01am Subject: Signetics books - Need some help here... atrionfo I did a search for Signetics books using WorldCat, a database that I can access at the local library (here in Central New York), and from home. The search came back with 83 hits, all of them books by Signetics. WorldCat is basically a database of library books, so this means that of all the libraries that participate with Worldcat, only these 83 books are available. Many of them are only available at ONE library. I went in and spoke to the local librarian to ask how this works-- can I get these books? The answer is maybe, but probably not. I can try though. From the 83 books that came back from my search, I marked the books that were published between 1974-1983. I had these 'marked' and then emailed to me. I am including this email below. I have NO idea where to start, and simply WON'T unless I get some help. What are some of the best bets for data on the 2636 and/or 2637 chips (as well as possible Arcadia-type information)? I'll dig into this research area, but I need some technical support (hint, that's where all you good people step in and say, "Hey, try to get THIS one!"). Adam Database: WorldCat Query: kw: signetics Comment: These are the books that I found using WorldCat Signetics digital, linear, MOS applications / Signetics Corporation. 1974 English Book 384 p. in various pagings : ill. ; 24 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 3 More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author Title: Signetics digital, linear, MOS applications / Corp Author(s): Signetics Corporation. Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Year: 1974 Description: 384 p. in various pagings : p., ill. ;, 24 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Semiconductors. Note(s): Cover title. Responsibility: [Signetics Corporation]. Document Type: Book Entry: 19801209 Update: 19990708 Accession No: OCLC: 41691845 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics analog : specifications, applications, military summary : data manual. Signetics Corporation. 1977 English Book 916 p. : diagrs., graphs ; 26 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Signetics analog : specifications, applications, military summary : data manual. Corp Author(s): Signetics Corporation. Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics, Year: 1977 Description: 916 p. : p., diagrs., graphs ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Linear integrated circuits -- Catalogs. Document Type: Book Entry: 19780824 Update: 19980314 Accession No: OCLC: 38621013 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Data manual : Signetics logic -- TTL -- specifications -- military summary. Signetics (Firm) 1978 English Book 765 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Sunnyvale, CA : Signetics Corp., Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Data manual : Signetics logic -- TTL -- specifications -- military summary. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, CA : Signetics Corp., Year: 1978 Description: 765 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Digital electronics -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Semiconductors -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Class Descrpt: Dewey: 621.395 Other Titles: Signetics logic -- TTL -- specifications -- military summary.; Logic -- TTL -- specifications -- military summary. Document Type: Book Entry: 19921009 Update: 20010205 Accession No: OCLC: 26758742 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ECL 10,000 family. Signetics (Firm) 1979 English Book 380 p. : ill. ; 23 cm. [Sunnyvale, CA] : Signetics, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: ECL 10,000 family. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, CA] : Signetics, Year: 1979 Description: 380 p. : p., ill. ;, 23 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits. Note(s): Title on spine: Signetics ecl 10000 Class Descrpt: Dewey: 621.395 Other Titles: ECL ten thousand family.; Signetics ecl ten thousand family.; Signetics ecl 10000 family. Document Type: Book Entry: 19901110 Update: 19950519 Accession No: OCLC: 22660111 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics analog manual. Signetics (Firm) 1970-1979? English Book 637 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif.] : Signetics, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 2 Title: Signetics analog manual. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif.] : Signetics, Year: 1970-1979? Description: 637 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Linear integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Note(s): Includes bibliographical references./ Reproduction: Photocopy./ [S.l. :/ s.n.,/ 1984?]/ 31 cm. Document Type: Book Entry: 19850918 Update: 19990715 Accession No: OCLC: 16110032 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics : digital, linear, mos. Signetics (Firm) 1974 English Book 2 v. : ill. ; 24 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corp., Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 9 Title: Signetics : digital, linear, mos. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corp., Year: 1974 Description: 2 v. : p., ill. ;, 24 cm. Language: English TOC: [v. 1.] Data book -- [v.2] Applications. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Digital electronics -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Linear integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874 Other Titles: Digital, linear, mos. Document Type: Book Entry: 19840423 Update: 19990717 Accession No: OCLC: 10652427 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics : digital, linear, MOS : applications. Signetics (Firm) 1973 English Book 1 v. (various pagings) : ill. ; 23 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif : Signetics, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 5 Title: Signetics : digital, linear, MOS : applications. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif : Signetics, Year: 1973 Description: 1 v. (various pagings) : p., ill. ;, 23 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Linear integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Digital integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Digital electronics. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7888.4 Document Type: Book Entry: 19840404 Update: 19990717 Accession No: OCLC: 10594765 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- IFL integrated fuse logic data manual : Signetic's approach to programmable logic for the 80's. 1983 English Book 1 v. (various pagings) Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics, Database: WorldCat Ownership: : 0 Title: IFL integrated fuse logic data manual : Signetic's approach to programmable logic for the 80's. Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics, Year: 1983 Description: 1 v. (various pagings) p. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Electric fuses. Integrated circuits. Class Descrpt: LC: TK3511 Document Type: Book Entry: 19830412 Update: 19830412 Accession No: OCLC: 9402035 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics MOS : silicon gate, 2500 series, metal gate, 2000/2400 series data book. 1972 English Book 205 p. [Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corp., Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Signetics MOS : silicon gate, 2500 series, metal gate, 2000/2400 series data book. Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corp., Year: 1972 Description: 205 p. p. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Computer input-output equipment. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: Dewey: 621.8 Document Type: Book Entry: 19810725 Update: 19810725 Accession No: OCLC: 7614246 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics logic, memories, interface, analog, microprocessor, military : data manual / [Signetics Corporation] Signetics (Firm) 1976 English Book 1162 p. in various pagings : ill. ; 26 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 9 Title: Signetics logic, memories, interface, analog, microprocessor, military : data manual / [Signetics Corporation] Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Year: 1976 Description: 1162 p. in various pagings : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Catalogs. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874.5 Other Titles: Signetics data manual. Document Type: Book Entry: 19810609 Update: 19980818 Accession No: OCLC: 7488744 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics bipolar & MOS memory : data manual. Signetics (Firm) 1979 English Book 288 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Sunnyvale, CA : The Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 9 Title: Signetics bipolar & MOS memory : data manual. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, CA : The Corporation, Year: 1979 Description: 288 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Digital electronics -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Semiconductors -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Note(s): Includes index. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7868.D5 Other Titles: Data manual. Document Type: Book Entry: 19800402 Update: 20010205 Accession No: OCLC: 6159217 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics field programmable logic arrays : an applications manual / Signetics (Firm) 1978 English Book vi, 106 p. : ill. ; 28 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics, Database: WorldCat Ownership: : 0 More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author Title: Signetics field programmable logic arrays : an applications manual / Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics, Year: 1978 Description: vi, 106 p. : p., ill. ;, 28 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Electronic data processing -- Logic circuits. Logic circuits -- Data processing. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: Dewey: 001.64 Responsibility: [Signetics Corporation]. Document Type: Book Entry: 19800317 Update: 19930607 Accession No: OCLC: 6094775 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics analog data manual, 1979 : specifications, military summary. Signetics (Firm) 1979 English Book 448 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 2 More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author Title: Signetics analog data manual, 1979 : specifications, military summary. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1979 Description: 448 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Class Descrpt: Dewey: 621.38173 Responsibility: [Signetics Corporation]. Document Type: Book Entry: 19800305 Update: 19990715 Accession No: OCLC: 6052210 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics 8X300 programming manual. Signetics (Firm) 1978 English Book 96 p. : ill. ; 28 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 2 Title: Signetics 8X300 programming manual. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Year: 1978 Description: 96 p. : p., ill. ;, 28 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Programming languages (Electronic computers) Class Descrpt: LC: QA76.7 Document Type: Book Entry: 19791129 Update: 20010914 Accession No: OCLC: 5739780 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics low power Schottky pocket guide / Signetics (Firm) 1978 English Book 176 p. : ill. ; 14 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 3 More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author Title: Signetics low power Schottky pocket guide / Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Year: 1978 Description: 176 p. : p., ill. ;, 14 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Diodes, Schottky-barrier -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Note(s): Includes index. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7871.89.S35 Other Titles: Low power Schottky. Responsibility: Signetics Corporation. Document Type: Book Entry: 19791126 Update: 20011023 Accession No: OCLC: 5728824 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics analog applications manual. Signetics (Firm) 1979 English Book 416 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 16 Title: Signetics analog applications manual. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : The Corporation, Year: 1979 Description: 416 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874 Other Titles: Analog applications manual. Document Type: Book Entry: 19791119 Update: 19990715 Accession No: OCLC: 5713038 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics logic-TTL data manual : specifications, military summary. Signetics (Firm) 1978 English Book 765 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 14 Title: Signetics logic-TTL data manual : specifications, military summary. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1978 Description: 765 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Logic circuits. Logic design. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7888.4 Document Type: Book Entry: 19791023 Update: 19930607 Accession No: OCLC: 5579704 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics bipolar and MOS memory data manual. Signetics (Firm) 1977 English Book 320 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 5 Title: Signetics bipolar and MOS memory data manual. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1977 Description: 320 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Semiconductor storage devices. Note(s): Includes index. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7895.M4 Document Type: Book Entry: 19791023 Update: 19930607 Accession No: OCLC: 5579578 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics bipolar/MOS microprocessor data manual. Signetics (Firm) 1977 English Book 352 p. : ill. ; 25 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 5 Title: Signetics bipolar/MOS microprocessor data manual. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1977 Description: 352 p. : p., ill. ;, 25 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Microprocessors. Microcomputers. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7895.M5 Document Type: Book Entry: 19791023 Update: 19930607 Accession No: OCLC: 5579076 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics analog data manual ; specifications, military summary. Signetics (Firm) 1979 English Book 448 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 7 Title: Signetics analog data manual ; specifications, military summary. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1979 Description: 448 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874 Document Type: Book Entry: 19791019 Update: 19990715 Accession No: OCLC: 5541223 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics 2650 microprocessor. Signetics (Firm) 1975 English Book 174 p. : ill. ; 28 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Signetics 2650 microprocessor. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1975 Description: 174 p. : p., ill. ;, 28 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Microprocessors. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: LC: QA76.8.S5 Document Type: Book Entry: 19790405 Update: 19930607 Accession No: OCLC: 4824098 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics analog data manual : specifications, applications, military summary. Signetics (Firm) 1977 English Book 916 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 17 More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author Title: Signetics analog data manual : specifications, applications, military summary. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1977 Description: 916 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Note(s): Includes index. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874 Responsibility: [Signetics Corporation]. Document Type: Book Entry: 19780322 Update: 19990715 Accession No: OCLC: 3737968 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics analog manual : applications, specifications / Signetics (Firm) 1976 English Book 637 p. : ill. ; 26 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 7 More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author Title: Signetics analog manual : applications, specifications / Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1976 Description: 637 p. : p., ill. ;, 26 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Note(s): Cover title./ Includes bibliographies. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874 Responsibility: [Signetics Corporation]. Document Type: Book Entry: 19771111 Update: 19990715 Accession No: OCLC: 3411384 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics : digital, linear, mos. Signetics (Firm) 1972 English Book 1 v. (various pagings) : tables. ; 23 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif : Signetics, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 11 Title: Signetics : digital, linear, mos. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif : Signetics, Year: 1972 Description: 1 v. (various pagings) : p., tables. ;, 23 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Digital electronics. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874 Document Type: Book Entry: 19770912 Update: 19990717 Accession No: OCLC: 3256931 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics: digital, linear, mos. Signetics (Firm) 1973 English Book 2 v. tables. 24 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 3 Title: Signetics: digital, linear, mos. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif, Year: 1973 Description: 2 v. p., tables., 24 cm. Language: English TOC: v. 1. Data book.--v. 2. Applications. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Digital electronics. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874 Document Type: Book Entry: 19741002 Update: 19990717 Accession No: OCLC: 1028183 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Signetics: digital, linear, MOS : data book. Signetics (Firm) 1974 English Book 1 v. (various pagings) : tables ; 24 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif.] : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 13 Title: Signetics: digital, linear, MOS : data book. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif.] : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1974 Description: 1 v. (various pagings) : p., tables ;, 24 cm. Language: English TOC: v. 1. Data book. SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Linear integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Digital electronics. Digital integrated circuits -- Handbooks, manuals, etc. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7874 Document Type: Book Entry: 19740925 Update: 19990717 Accession No: OCLC: 1021460 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- FirstSearch(r) Copyright (c) 1992-2002 OCLC as to electronic presentation and platform. All Rights Reserved. 376 From: "ventrra" Date: Sun Apr 28, 2002 1:21pm Subject: Re: Signetics books - Need some help here... ventrra Adam: As I have found out with my book (see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/message/371 ) the likelyhood is that anything before 1977 is going to be nearly worthless.Neither of the video chips were in the books yet (otherwise they'd have been listed in the book I have, I suspect.) Likewise, all of the analog an military stuff is worthless for this as well; the analog stuff refers to audio circuitry. The one that I have is in your listing, though: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Signetics bipolar/MOS microprocessor data manual. Signetics (Firm) 1977 English Book 352 p. : ill. ; 25 cm. [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 5 Title: Signetics bipolar/MOS microprocessor data manual. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: [Sunnyvale, Calif.?] : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1977 Description: 352 p. : p., ill. ;, 25 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Microprocessors. Microcomputers. Class Descrpt: LC: TK7895.M5 Document Type: Book Entry: 19791023 Update: 19930607 Accession No: OCLC: 5579076 This book in your list will probably help you understand the 2650 better: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------- Signetics 2650 microprocessor. Signetics (Firm) 1975 English Book 174 p. : ill. ; 28 cm. Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corporation, Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 1 Title: Signetics 2650 microprocessor. Corp Author(s): Signetics (Firm) Publication: Sunnyvale, Calif. : Signetics Corporation, Year: 1975 Description: 174 p. : p., ill. ;, 28 cm. Language: English SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Microprocessors. Note(s): Cover title. Class Descrpt: LC: QA76.8.S5 Document Type: Book Entry: 19790405 Update: 19930607 Accession No: OCLC: 4824098 Other than these, I at least (IMO), don't see anything that might help any. Sorry. Charles Morgan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I did a search for Signetics books using WorldCat, a database that I can > access at the local library (here in Central New York), and from home. The > search came back with 83 hits, all of them books by Signetics. WorldCat is > basically a database of library books, so this means that of all the > libraries that participate with Worldcat, only these 83 books are available. > Many of them are only available at ONE library. I went in and spoke to > the local librarian to ask how this works-- can I get these books? The > answer is maybe, but probably not. I can try though. > > From the 83 books that came back from my search, I marked the books that > were published between 1974-1983. I had these 'marked' and then emailed to > me. I am including this email below. I have NO idea where to start, and > simply WON'T unless I get some help. What are some of the best bets for > data on the 2636 and/or 2637 chips (as well as possible Arcadia- type > information)? I'll dig into this research area, but I need some technical > support (hint, that's where all you good people step in and say, "Hey, try > to get THIS one!"). > > Adam >>SNIP<< 377 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:45am Subject: Leisure-Vision or Leisure-Dynamics? Or both? commie_fan DPCG guide question: was there ever such a company as "Leisure- Dynamics"? Many old lists, which earlier versions of the DPCG were in part based on, list such a company, along with a number of games they allegedly made. There are nine carts on the current list, by Leisure-Dynamics, as well as 29 or so by Leisure-Vision. Does anyone have solid, 100% reliable, non-guessing information to confirm or deny the existence of a company named Leisure-Dynamics? -- Ward Shrake -- 378 From: "kiwigame" Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 8:29am Subject: Re: Leisure-Vision or Leisure-Dynamics? Or both? kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > DPCG guide question: was there ever such a company as "Leisure- > Dynamics"? > > Many old lists, which earlier versions of the DPCG were in part based > on, list such a company, along with a number of games they allegedly > made. There are nine carts on the current list, by Leisure- Dynamics, > as well as 29 or so by Leisure-Vision. Does anyone have solid, 100% > reliable, non-guessing information to confirm or deny the existence > of a company named Leisure-Dynamics? Ward See this 1998 post: http://groups.google.com/groups? hl=en&frame=right&th=f7f56c575e198183&seekm=6pg7qm%24jv1%40freenet- news.carleton.ca#link3 "I just picked up 8 leisure=vision carts in box an noticed something very curious. 2 of the carts do not say Leisure=Vision atall but Hanimex. Research has shown that Hanimex was the name given to the Emmerson Arcadia in it's European (German) release. However, 6 of the boxes say "Leisure=Vision" but the address has been labelled over with a Hanimex mailing label which is: Distributed by Hanimex (Canada) LTD., Markham, Ontario L3R 1G8 After peeling the sticker off of Star Chess the Leisure=Vision address is revealed: Leisure Dynamics LTD, Don Mills, Ontario, M3A 1C6 neither company lists in a current phonebook." Cheers Mike 379 From: "slydc" Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 10:56am Subject: Re: Leisure-Vision or Leisure-Dynamics? Or both? slydc Hi Mike & Ward, Just came from the PhillyClassic...Boy that was fun!! There wasn't any Arcadia 2001 or clone accept someone i saw with a Arcadia 2001 in his hands (brought or was for trade??) I was the only one selling or trading Arcadia 2001 stuff and clones, which only Matt reserved x3 MPT-03 games. I even had a Interton VC 4000 cart to trade/sell but seems that no one was looking for this kind of stuff. Only Christain Scott traded me some Arcadia stuff i was missing from my persannal collection: Brain Quiz (box, overlays & manual), 3D- Bowling (box, overlays & manual) and Space Vulture (box, overlays & manual). Many thanks to Chris and it was a pleasure of seeing Matt, Chris and all the rest! It would have been great to see Ward and some of you guys. Ok, now about the Leisure-Dynamics. This is weird since Leisure- Dynamics was also Hanimex here in Canada. The adress that Mike have written is exactly what i have on my Leisure-Dynamics boxes. Neither Hanimex or L-D doesn't exist, think that they closed round 1984 when the crash of video games occured. So both the Leisure-Vision and the Hanimex HMG-2650 (NTSC version, not the PAL one) was distributed by the same company. Very weird to why the company released these two systems with different company names. Another mystery to be solved one day.... *sigh!* --- Sly DC --- 380 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:25pm Subject: Re: Leisure-Vision or Leisure-Dynamics? Or both? slapdash26 >DPCG guide question: was there ever such a company as "Leisure- >Dynamics"? > >Many old lists, which earlier versions of the DPCG were in part based >on, list such a company, along with a number of games they allegedly >made. There are nine carts on the current list, by Leisure-Dynamics, >as well as 29 or so by Leisure-Vision. Does anyone have solid, 100% >reliable, non-guessing information to confirm or deny the existence >of a company named Leisure-Dynamics? No, but I suspect that "Leisure Dynamics" is the company, and "Leisure- Vision" the brand. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 381 From: "kiwigame" Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 6:23pm Subject: Re: Leisure-Vision or Leisure-Dynamics? Or both? kiwigame > No, but I suspect that "Leisure Dynamics" is the company, and "Leisure- > Vision" the brand. Thats how I read it too... Leisure-Dynamics don't still exist (Coleco bought them out in 86 when they bankrupted but the name lives on. http://www.leisuredesign.com/company/news/1995-0507.htm "Lakeside games" was another name LeisureDynamics traded under. (boardgames etc) + theres a few nice Lakeside handhelds - (Computer Perfection is one (Ralph Baer designed this for them)) Cheers Mike 382 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Apr 29, 2002 6:50pm Subject: Re: Leisure-Vision or Leisure-Dynamics? Or both? stefanpiasecki I collect mainly LV games and also have a number of Arcadia/Hanimex releases. All I know is that Leisure-Dynamics was the distributor (who probably sold overstocks to or through Hanimex) and all games show the Leisure-Vision logo. Also all the game-titles are both French and English, while Hanimex boxes are always English only and often carry a small piece of paper with German instructions while Schmid always had a full set of instructions in Both English and German. So I assume that somebody just mixed things up by putting the French titles and the distri's name on a list years ago. To make it short: I think the French Leisure-Dynamics games on your list are just name-variations of normal Leisure-Vision games. Stefan 383 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Apr 30, 2002 11:24am Subject: Re: Leisure-Vision or Leisure-Dynamics? Or both? commie_fan My next question is this... should I simply delete all "Leisure- Dynamics" game titles from my upcoming list, in the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" book? (The deadline is just days away, now.) -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > To make it short: I think the French Leisure-Dynamics games on your > list are just name-variations of normal Leisure-Vision games. > Stefan 384 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Tue Apr 30, 2002 2:42pm Subject: Re: Leisure-Vision or Leisure-Dynamics? Or both? slapdash26 >My next question is this... should I simply delete all "Leisure- >Dynamics" game titles from my upcoming list, in the "Digital Press >Collectors Guide" book? (The deadline is just days away, now.) I'd be tempted to change all the LV ones to LD actually -- the same way "Tele-Fever" carts are listed under "Eduscho" instead. But give both English and French titles where possible, and put a note about the confusion in the intro, or as a footnote... > wrote: >(snip) >> To make it short: I think the French Leisure-Dynamics games on your >> list are just name-variations of normal Leisure-Vision games. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 385 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed May 1, 2002 4:56am Subject: MPT-03: Nibbleman the Dot-Muncher stefanpiasecki Howdy, I just received a bunch of MPT-03 games from Australia and I can confirm that Nibbleman is NOT just Crazy Gobbler with a name variation. Nibbleman features Cattrax' labyrinth, the sounds of Crazy Gobbler, the feature to open close/gates and hyperjump (this is from Super Gobbler as far as I know) and the comic-style ghosts with the big eyes that they turn to once you ate a power-pill and caught them. Also, all ghosts start in the center of the screen (where also the bonus fruits appear right where the power-object is in Cattrax) and there is no house for the ghosts. I hope this helps. Ward, do you need the cart to get it dumped? Stefan 386 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed May 1, 2002 6:27am Subject: Emerson Service manual uploaded atrionfo I bought the Emerson Service manual that Ward has a link to in his Arcadia FAQ. It's quite short (12 pages), so I scanned it in and posted it (as a pdf) into the files section in case anyone needs it. Adam 387 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed May 1, 2002 8:34am Subject: Nibblman: follow-up info stefanpiasecki Regarding my previous post I have to add that after playing all the mentioned games head-to-head, Nibbleman is basically SuperGobbler with one single difference: in SG your character is quite slow (unlike in CrazyGobbler) and gets faster after it gobbled up one of the power-ups. In Nibbleman the character is always as fast as if the bonus was used in SuperGobbler. In addition it seems that those ghosts become much faster after they were killed and transferred into the harmless ghosts. They seem to rush back to the center of the screen. As I always hated the slow standard-speed in SG, I wished I could play Nibbleman on an Arcadia as then this would be the perfect PacMan clone for this system. I also played Breakaway on the MPT-03 system. I now have it for the Arcadia, the Palladium and the MPT-03 and I can only say that for this kind of games (also applies to Missile War) the MPT-03 system has the best controllers, which on the other hand really suck with any games that need precise controls like Nibbleman. The MPT-03 sticks have, unlike the Palladium ones, an easy to find center. With the Palladium controllers it is almost impossible (or requires a lot of practise) to actually play and enjoy games like Breakaway as you never know where the controller is heading. If they indeed planned a rotary controller for the Arcadia, it is a shame that it never came out as then games like those mentioned above would really be fun. They aren't with the standard Arcadia controllers. Would it be that difficult to convert a VCS rotary to the Arcadia? I wonder why nobody ever tried that. Stefan 388 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed May 1, 2002 3:44pm Subject: Re: MPT-03: Nibbleman the Dot-Muncher commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) >Ward, do you need the cart to get it dumped? > Stefan I did already archive the "Ormatu" version of Nibblemen, but I have no idea if yours is different, or not. So I'm not 100% sure how to answer that... I guess I'm paranoid to give any solid answer, where this console group is concerned! Which is kind of pitiful, when you consider that I'm currently hard at work, trying to get a beta-copy of the Arcadia 2001 section ready, for interested parties to read over, and to help me proofread it. In short, "maybe". I think that over the long term, I'll want to have a look at some carts, to be 100% sure they are what we think they are. But that's the long term, and I need to focus on the next few days, and the deadline that (technically) just expired, earlier today. The editor is giving me a few more days, but its crunch time! -- Ward Shrake -- 389 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue May 7, 2002 0:21pm Subject: Proof-reading requested on guide write-up commie_fan The deadline for all of the unfinished sections of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" is just days away now! This Friday, I have to turn in whatever I have, whether I am ready or not. And then whatever we turned in is going to be "gospel" in print for *at least* two years. So please... if you think you have any input to offer, or you want to proofread what I have written, please read over the file found at this link (Microsoft Word format) and post any feedback here. Keep me honest, on any contradictions or what not that you may find in it. (I will post newer revisions of it to the same place, as I make updates. We all know by now how I work on those, right?) DO NOT DELAY... this is already past the initial deadline, and Friday is the absolute last chance I will get at this. It's "do or die" now! http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/arcadia7.doc After the May 10th, 2002 deadline passes, the file above will be taken totally off of the I'net and the link above will go bad. It is only there now for proof-reading purposes, and no one but message board members is aware that it is there. (Which is as it should be.) If you have no idea what I'm talking about, above, please see the "bookmarks" section of these message boards. There is a link there to a "Digital Press" web site. DP puts out a 400-page book; a printed "Collectors Guide" every few years. Version Seven is in progress right now. Version Eight will not happen for years. Various (unpaid) people contribute to the guide, in various ways. Digital Press only does updates every few years, and not everyone buys the latest guide (though they should), so it is very important to all of us that I be accurate, when I turn in my final revision. The bottomline is that whatever I turn in now is going to be thought of as "gospel" in many people's minds, for many years to come. Besides just wanting to do a good job, I really hate the idea of some newbie collectors telling me that I'm wrong, because the guide says something we later find out is false, and tries to correct. (Casual game historians are not paying enough attention to the fact that WE wrote the guide, and WILL argue with us, when we try to correct what they think they know, that just is not so. I guarantee they aren't!) -- Ward Shrake -- 390 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Tue May 7, 2002 2:08pm Subject: RE: Proof-reading requested on guide write-up mrhaboobi Hi Warde I can Confirm the existance of these titles for Tunix, these are the correct numbers and are from MY collection. I own Every single game on that list, in most cases the games are complete with box. #1 - Space Attack #2 - Jungler #3 - Super Gobbler #4 - Space Vulture #5 - Alien Invader #6 - Missile War #7 - Ocean Battle #8 - 3D Bowling #9 - Brain Quiz #10 - Soccer #11 - Star Chess #12 - Capture #14 - Cat Trax #16 - Space Raiders #17 - Tanks A Lot #18 - Red Clash #19 - Grand Slam Tennis #20 - Spiders #21 - The End #22 - Jump Bug #23 - Astro Invader #24 - R2D Tank #25 - Turtles/Turpins #26 - Route 16 #27 - Hobo #28 - Funky Fish #29 - Pleaides As for your descrition of funky fish, it might be incorrect to say that the game came without a back label, as i have multiple copies of games that come with or without the back labels, Tunix games were not consistant, it seems that different batches of the same game could vary in quality and design. I CANNOT confirm the existance of games 15 and 13 for tunix, those being baseball and Escape, ive been unable to locate those games in New Zealand, but im still looking :) They were of course mentioned on the back of most tunix game boxes, they are also listed in the Tunix catalogs, and images of the games appear on the Tunix Machine Carton. However having said that there are other games listed on the Machine Box, eg crazy gobbler, american football, its my findings that these games were also never released in NZ. I should also note that i have never seen a PAL arcadia 2001. Who has that cool bit of equipment :) id love to see it. I can also confirm Crazy Climber for Sheen m25 as i have that complete aswell. I hope this helps in some way, [Greg Cook] -----Original Message-----From: commie_fan [mailto:ward.shrake@worldnet.att.net]Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2002 2:21 p.m.To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.comSubject: [arcadia2001consoles] Proof-reading requested on guide write-upThe deadline for all of the unfinished sections of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" is just days away now! This Friday, I have to turn in whatever I have, whether I am ready or not. And then whatever we turned in is going to be "gospel" in print for *at least* two years.So please... if you think you have any input to offer, or you want to proofread what I have written, please read over the file found at this link (Microsoft Word format) and post any feedback here. Keep me honest, on any contradictions or what not that you may find in it. (I will post newer revisions of it to the same place, as I make updates. We all know by now how I work on those, right?)DO NOT DELAY... this is already past the initial deadline, and Friday is the absolute last chance I will get at this. It's "do or die" now!http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/arcadia7.docAfter the May 10th, 2002 deadline passes, the file above will be taken totally off of the I'net and the link above will go bad. It is only there now for proof-reading purposes, and no one but message board members is aware that it is there. (Which is as it should be.)If you have no idea what I'm talking about, above, please see the "bookmarks" section of these message boards. There is a link there to a "Digital Press" web site. DP puts out a 400-page book; a printed "Collectors Guide" every few years. Version Seven is in progress right now. Version Eight will not happen for years. Various (unpaid) people contribute to the guide, in various ways.Digital Press only does updates every few years, and not everyone buys the latest guide (though they should), so it is very important to all of us that I be accurate, when I turn in my final revision. The bottomline is that whatever I turn in now is going to be thought of as "gospel" in many people's minds, for many years to come.Besides just wanting to do a good job, I really hate the idea of some newbie collectors telling me that I'm wrong, because the guide says something we later find out is false, and tries to correct. (Casual game historians are not paying enough attention to the fact that WE wrote the guide, and WILL argue with us, when we try to correct what they think they know, that just is not so. I guarantee they aren't!)-- Ward Shrake --To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 391 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue May 7, 2002 10:04pm Subject: Funky Fish manual stefanpiasecki Hi, I am looking for a FF-manual, being it either English or whatever language. Does somebody have such a manual and could you sca it, please? Thanks Stefan 392 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Tue May 7, 2002 10:06pm Subject: Re: Proof-reading requested on guide write-up tempest_2084 I have a PAL Arcadia system I got from Australia, but it only says Arcadia not Arcadia 2001. From the case style I think it's just a rebadged Schmid TVG system. Tempest > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F57C.E32D1C3E > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > > Hi Warde > I can Confirm the existance of these titles for Tunix, these are the correc= > t numbers and are from MY collection. I own Every single game on that list,= > in most cases the games are complete with box. > =20 > #1 - Space Attack=09 > #2 - Jungler=09 > #3 - Super Gobbler=09 > #4 - Space Vulture=09 > #5 - Alien Invader=09 > #6 - Missile War=09 > #7 - Ocean Battle=09 > > #8 - 3D Bowling > #9 - Brain Quiz > > #10 - Soccer > #11 - Star Chess > #12 - Capture=09 > #14 - Cat Trax=09 > #16 - Space Raiders=09 > #17 - Tanks A Lot=09 > #18 - Red Clash=09 > #19 - Grand Slam Tennis=09 > #20 - Spiders=09 > #21 - The End=09 > #22 - Jump Bug=09 > #23 - Astro Invader=09 > #24 - R2D Tank=09 > #25 - Turtles/Turpins=09 > #26 - Route 16=09 > #27 - Hobo=09 > #28 - Funky Fish=09 > #29 - Pleaides=09 > =20 > =20 > As for your descrition of funky fish, it might be incorrect to say that the= > game came without a back label, as i have multiple copies of games that co= > me with or without the back labels, Tunix games were not consistant, it see= > ms that different batches of the same game could vary in quality and design= > . > =20 > I CANNOT confirm the existance of games 15 and 13 for tunix, those being ba= > seball and Escape, ive been unable to locate those games in New Zealand, bu= > t im still looking :) They were of course mentioned on the back of most tu= > nix game boxes, they are also listed in the Tunix catalogs, and images of t= > he games appear on the Tunix Machine Carton. However having said that ther= > e are other games listed on the Machine Box, eg crazy gobbler, american foo= > tball, its my findings that these games were also never released in NZ. > =20 > I should also note that i have never seen a PAL arcadia 2001. Who has that = > cool bit of equipment :) id love to see it. > =20 > I can also confirm Crazy Climber for Sheen m25 as i have that complete aswe= > ll. > =20 > I hope this helps in some way,=20 > =20 > > [Greg Cook]=20 > > =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: commie_fan [mailto:ward.shrake@...] > Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2002 2:21 p.m. > To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Proof-reading requested on guide write-up > > > The deadline for all of the unfinished sections of the "Digital Press=20 > Collectors Guide" is just days away now! This Friday, I have to turn=20 > in whatever I have, whether I am ready or not. And then whatever we=20 > turned in is going to be "gospel" in print for *at least* two years. > > So please... if you think you have any input to offer, or you want to=20 > proofread what I have written, please read over the file found at=20 > this link (Microsoft Word format) and post any feedback here. Keep me=20 > honest, on any contradictions or what not that you may find in it. (I=20 > will post newer revisions of it to the same place, as I make updates.=20 > We all know by now how I work on those, right?) > > DO NOT DELAY... this is already past the initial deadline, and Friday=20 > is the absolute last chance I will get at this. It's "do or die" now! > > > http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/arcadia7.doc > > > After the May 10th, 2002 deadline passes, the file above will be=20 > taken totally off of the I'net and the link above will go bad. It is=20 > only there now for proof-reading purposes, and no one but message=20 > board members is aware that it is there. (Which is as it should be.) > > If you have no idea what I'm talking about, above, please see=20 > the "bookmarks" section of these message boards. There is a link=20 > there to a "Digital Press" web site. DP puts out a 400-page book; a=20=20 > printed "Collectors Guide" every few years. Version Seven is in=20 > progress right now. Version Eight will not happen for years. Various=20 > (unpaid) people contribute to the guide, in various ways. > > Digital Press only does updates every few years, and not everyone=20 > buys the latest guide (though they should), so it is very important=20 > to all of us that I be accurate, when I turn in my final revision.=20 > The bottomline is that whatever I turn in now is going to be thought=20 > of as "gospel" in many people's minds, for many years to come. > > Besides just wanting to do a good job, I really hate the idea of some=20 > newbie collectors telling me that I'm wrong, because the guide says=20 > something we later find out is false, and tries to correct. (Casual=20 > game historians are not paying enough attention to the fact that WE=20 > wrote the guide, and WILL argue with us, when we try to correct what=20 > they think they know, that just is not so. I guarantee they aren't!) > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor=09 > > ADVERTISEMENT > 1705006497:HM/A=3D1000239/R=3D0/*http://ads.x10.com/?bHlhaG9vaG0xLmRhd=3D10= > 20738097%3eM=3D226014.2032696.3508022.1829184/D=3Degroupweb/S=3D1705006497:= > HM/A=3D1000239/R=3D1>=20=09 > roupmail/S=3D1705006497:HM/A=3D1000239/rand=3D355718333>=20=09 > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service /docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> .=20 > > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F57C.E32D1C3E > Content-Type: text/html; charset=US-ASCII > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > > > > > > > > > >
size=2>Hi Warde
>
size=2>I can Confirm the existance of these titles for Tunix, these are the > correct numbers and are from MY collection. I own Every single game on that > list, in most cases the games are complete with box.
>
size=2>&nbsp;
>
> cellPadding=0 width=253 border=0 x:str> > > width=253> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; W IDTH: 190pt; BORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transpare nt" > width=253 height=14>#1 - Space > Attack
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#2 - Jungler
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#3 - Super Gobbler
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#4 - Space Vulture
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#5 - Alien Invader
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#6 - Missile War
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#7 - Ocean Battle
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14> >
#8 - 3D Bowling
>
#9 - Brain > Quiz
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14> >
#10 - Soccer
>
#11 - Star > Chess
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#12 - Capture
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#14 - Cat Trax
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#16 - Space Raiders
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#17 - Tanks A Lot
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#18 - Red Clash
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#19 - Grand Slam Tennis
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#20 - Spiders
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#21 - The End
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#22 - Jump Bug
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#23 - Astro Invader
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#24 - R2D Tank
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#25 - Turtles/Turpins
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#26 - Route 16
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#27 - Hobo
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#28 - Funky Fish
style="BORDER-RIGHT: #d4d0c8; BORDER-TOP: #d4d0c8; BORDER-LEFT: #d4d0c8; B ORDER-BOTTOM: #d4d0c8; HEIGHT: 10.5pt; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" > height=14>#29 - > Pleaides
>
size=2>&nbsp;
>
size=2>&nbsp;
>
class=843215103-07052002>As for your descrition of funky fish, it might be > incorrect to say that the game came without a back label, as i have multiple > copies of games that come with or without the back labels, Tunix games were no t > consistant, it seems that different batches of the same game could vary in > quality and design.
>
class=843215103-07052002>&nbsp;
>
class=843215103-07052002>I CANNOT confirm the existance of games&nbsp;15 and 1 3 > for tunix, those being baseball and Escape, ive been unable to locate those > games in New Zealand, but im still looking :)&nbsp; They were of course > mentioned on the back of most tunix game boxes, they are also listed in the > Tunix catalogs, and images of the games appear on the Tunix Machine > Carton.&nbsp; However having said that there are other games listed on the > Machine Box, eg crazy gobbler, american football, its my findings that these > games were also never released in NZ.
>
class=843215103-07052002>&nbsp;
>
class=843215103-07052002>I should also note that i have never seen a PAL arcad ia > 2001. Who has that cool bit of equipment :) id love to see > it.
>
&nbsp;
>
color=#0000ff size=2>I can also confirm Crazy Climber for Sheen m25 as i have > that complete aswell.
>
class=843215103-07052002>&nbsp;
>
class=843215103-07052002>I hope this helps in some way,
>
face=Tahoma> color=#0000ff size=2>&nbsp;
>

class=843215103-07052002>[Greg > Cook]&nbsp;
>
style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid"> >
class=843215103-07052002>&nbsp;
>
class=843215103-07052002>&nbsp;-----Original > Message-----
From: commie_fan > [mailto:ward.shrake@...]
Sent: Tuesday, 7 May 2002 2: 21 > p.m.
To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com
Subject: > [arcadia2001consoles] Proof-reading requested on guide > write-up

The deadline for all of the unfinish ed > sections of the "Digital Press
Collectors Guide" is just days away now! > This Friday, I have to turn
in whatever I have, whether I am ready or no t. > And then whatever we
turned in is going to be "gospel" in print for *at > least* two years.

So please... if you think you have any input to > offer, or you want to
proofread what I have written, please read over th e > file found at
this link (Microsoft Word format) and post any feedback > here. Keep me
honest, on any contradictions or what not that you may fin d > in it. (I
will post newer revisions of it to the same place, as I make > updates.
We all know by now how I work on those, right?)

DO NOT > DELAY... this is already past the initial deadline, and Friday
is the > absolute last chance I will get at this. It's "do or die" now!


href="http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/arcadia7.doc">http://classicgam ing.com/arcadia/texts/arcadia7.doc


After > the May 10th, 2002 deadline passes, the file above will be
taken totally > off of the I'net and the link above will go bad. It is
only there now fo r > proof-reading purposes, and no one but message
board members is aware th at > it is there. (Which is as it should be.)

If you have no idea what I'm > talking about, above, please see
the "bookmarks" section of these messag e > boards. There is a link
there to a "Digital Press" web site. DP puts out a > 400-page book; a&nbsp;
printed "Collectors Guide" every few years. Versi on > Seven is in
progress right now. Version Eight will not happen for years. > Various
(unpaid) people contribute to the guide, in various > ways.

Digital Press only does updates every few years, and not everyo ne >
buys the latest guide (though they should), so it is very important
to > all of us that I be accurate, when I turn in my final revision.
The > bottomline is that whatever I turn in now is going to be thought
of as > "gospel" in many people's minds, for many years to come.

Besides just > wanting to do a good job, I really hate the idea of some
newbie collecto rs > telling me that I'm wrong, because the guide says
something we later fin d > out is false, and tries to correct. (Casual
game historians are not payi ng > enough attention to the fact that WE
wrote the guide, and WILL argue wit h > us, when we try to correct what
they think they know, that just is not s o. > I guarantee they aren't!)

-- Ward Shrake --



T o > unsubscribe from this group, send an email > to:
arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



< TT>Your > use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the href="http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/">Yahoo! Terms of Service. >
>
> > > > > > > > > > > >
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> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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> > > > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1F57C.E32D1C3E-- > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert reicher6@... Http://www.msu.edu/~reicher6/ Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 393 From: "oboissea" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 0:08am Subject: More info from France oboissea First, all the games I have for the Prestige MPT-03 are not labelled "Prestige" at all. There are just generic MPT-03 games. They all have the text "For Use With Home Entertainment Centre MPT-03" on their box. So I think you should delete any reference to Prestige specific games. Here are the titles printed on the boxes of the the games I own: MG-306 - "Alien Invader" (not "Alien InvaderS") MG-310 - "Bowling (3 dimensions)", not "3D Bowling" MG-317 - "Robot Killer", but the documentation says "Les Robots Meurtriers" (and not "Le Robot Meurtrier") MG-320 - "Auto Race" All carts have a "made in Hong-Kong" sticker... --- Also like I said in a previous mails, the Hanimex MPT-03 and ITMC MPT- 03 are pure "inventions" of myself. I was young sorry... :) In fact as I have a Hanimex MPT-02 and a an ITMC MPT-05, I quickly concluded that there must have been MPT-03 systems for each of these brands. I was wrong (I guess), sorry. As you often say, we have to be extra careful in what we say, because each small mistake can wrongly educate thousand of collectors for years... Well, in fact, I have set up very quickly an information page with the relevant info that could be interesting for our subject. Please have a look here: http://www.old-computers.com/olivier/ I even try to resolve the Jump Bug 2 mystery, and unveils the MPT-04 (see Rowtron section). Feedback welcomed 394 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 1:05am Subject: Re: Proof-reading requested on guide write-up stefanpiasecki I downloaded your text and will send it back to you with comments in red tonight. This should be the easiest way to implement any feedback. Cheers Stefan 395 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 7:03am Subject: RE: Funky Fish manual mrhaboobi I can scan my manual if you like, do you need all pages? -----Original Message-----From: stefanpiasecki [mailto:stefanpiasecki@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, 8 May 2002 12:05 a.m.To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.comSubject: [arcadia2001consoles] Funky Fish manualHi,I am looking for a FF-manual, being it either English or whatever language. Does somebody have such a manual and could you sca it, please?ThanksStefanTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 396 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 9:21am Subject: Re: More info from France commie_fan Olivier gave me the info I needed, to figure out the "Jump Bug 2" mystery. I can say with certainty now, why that rumored cart was on other people's lists... half bad assumption, half faked screenshot. Fire up "Jump Bug" in the MESS emulator, or on a real console. Press the "Select" button on the console. ("Option" acts like game start, and at first, it looks like "Select" does too. But there is a subtle difference, which becomes apparent only to those that are patient.) In short, the game goes into an automated demonstration mode, if you press "Select" and then wait. As you will see by watching the demo run, what is on the screen is "name" and then "level" and then "screen". There are 12 screens per level. I let the demo run on my Leisure-Vision console, so long that it run through all the numbers "1" through "9" and then -- get this -- went into hexadecimal notation, using level codes "a" and "b" and so on. So I changed my latest guide write-up, saying once and for all that "Jump Bug 2" does NOT exist. The screenshot that Olivier scanned in, dates the game's programming phase, if nothing else... my own take on why they'd fake a screenshot in the first place, is that the game was in progress, but not finished enough to show a real screenshot yet. (Or at least that fits in with what they did on other games that were not fully ready yet.) Thanks again, Olivier! This makes MUCH more sense, now! -- Ward Shrake -- 397 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 9:31am Subject: Re: Proof-reading requested on guide write-up commie_fan I updated the text twice today, to include most of the input you guys gave me. I'll keep working on it. Keep the comments coming, please! Oh, I put a link up, in the bookmarks section, to make the file easier for you guys to find. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > I downloaded your text and will send it back to you with comments in > red tonight. This should be the easiest way to implement any feedback. > Cheers > Stefan 398 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 4:25pm Subject: Last chance to proof-read Ward's DPCG book section! commie_fan As I said before, the absolute last date I can turn in my write-up for the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" is this Friday. The editor, Joe Santulli, wants things in earlier than that, if possible. I did work very hard today, to get all of your suggestions integrated into the text. This is it, guys... get your input in to me NOW or risk having to wait two or more years for another chance. Thanks a bunch for all the help, guys. I'm putting credits in the submission, and I pushed hard for the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" to do better credits in general, for past and future guides. After I ship the text off, and the editor integrates it into his official database, I am going to "go on strike" for awhile. I just need a BIG rest from this stuff... no offense, and I will come back, but I need some time away from all this. I've been doing this stuff, hardcore, for six weeks or more. It's breaktime, before this week is out. Real life is calling for my attention, I want to work on a few more movies, and I have a month's worth of TV shows taped, to watch. I'm sure you will all forgive me, if I take a "real life" break!? -- Ward Shrake -- 399 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 5:03pm Subject: Re: Proof-reading requested on guide write-up dieterk_ccc I don't think that the tele-fever system has anything to do with Eduscho. On the instructions of the games only Tchibo is mentioned as manufacturer and regarding to some collectors in Germany the system was ONLY sold at Tchibo. Eduscho is a competitor, so it's very unlike that the system was sold via both chains. Cheers, Dieter 400 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 5:38pm Subject: Re: Funky Fish manual stefanpiasecki Yes please. I was searching for this game for literally ages and finally I found a boxed TVG version, but without a manual. Reading it will be a pleasure. 150 DPI will do. Thanks a lot Stefan 401 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 5:44pm Subject: Re: Proof-reading requested on guide write-up stefanpiasecki Yes, it only was available through one of the shops. I recall the system being available at Tchibo in the city of Oberhausen in West- Germany with a large poster (basically the box cover) hanging in the window. There also was an Eduscho store a few bldgs. down the road. I am pretty sure about this because a) I had the system as a kid and b) my mother always went into one of the shops with me to drink a coffee on our regular shopping tours on Saturday-mornings, so as a kid I had plenty of time to look around (being bored) and I WOULD have noticed if it would have been available in both chains. As Dieter says, Tchibo and Eduscho were fierce competitors in these days. They merged in the late 90s, though. Stefan 402 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 8:20pm Subject: Just posted: Ward's preface to the DPCG guide commie_fan Hi all. See the bookmarks section: I "pulled another Ward" just now, and re-wrote the preface to the DPCG #7 guide. It is three pages long, which is about two pages longer than I'd like. But the info in it was hard-won, and I'll be darned if I'll ignore it, after all we have collectively gone through, to dig all that unknown info up. Any feedback on it would be appreciated. (But please hurry; deadlines!) -- Ward Shrake -- 403 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 8:59pm Subject: Re: Just posted: Ward's preface to the DPCG guide stefanpiasecki Reads cool. I even was disappointed when I came to the end.... I am just missing the fact when you mention the Interton in the final paragraphs that the Interton is ROM compatible with the oolder Hanimex, Radofin and Princetronic consoles. This might bring the "two worlds" theory in a wider perspective. Stefan 404 From: "oboissea" Date: Wed May 8, 2002 11:11pm Subject: Fake screenshots oboissea Just a thought about fake screnshots... I'm not convinced that fake screenshots were used to advertise games when development was not advanced enough. I would rather say that, at this time, it was not easy to get a "clean" screenshot of a game. The printed result would be blurry and simply, bad. So often, I guess, people prefered to hire someone to design a clean screenshot which would look better on printed material. What do you think of that? This sounds funny as I try to imagine "professional" fake screenshots designers... :-) 405 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 2:59am Subject: Re: Fake screenshots commie_fan Olivier: I both agree and disagree, but I think we're both thinking roughly the same thing. Where I agree: I am sure that any screenshot would have been hard to make, directly from an RF video connection, in this era. I am sure that artists would have to create or manipulate some screenshots, to make them look clean and so on. That just makes good sense. Where I disagree: if you look at some of the screens I have discussed here before, you will see that the artist's versions of certain screenshots does NOT match the "real thing" well. When this happens, it appears that a lot of the time, this was either a "coming soon" game or a game they had ready to be released, but that had to go back for more work, to "legalize" the game. The only plausible reason for such a mistake, in my opinion, is that the artist did not have a clear idea of what he/she was copying, or what they were copying was not what the final version looked like. These screens are not all that hard to "get right". A big sheet of graph paper laid over the real screen would be enough to make a decent, accurate screenshot. (Many of these games did have a pause feature.) So if I have to blame either the programmer or the artist, it makes more sense to blame the programmers. I can't imagine an artist being so lame as to not be able to copy the screen well, and the company that is launching this console says "that's OK, print it anyway". They would simply tell the artist to go back and correct it, or fire the person and hire someone else. But we know for a fact that many of these programs were written, and then re-written. Consider this... magazine lead times usually are three months, maybe four, so you'd have to submit your game program screenshot to the magazine that far in advance, to ensure it comes out when the article they are writing about you, comes out. Consider that Chris Capener only had three months to write Funky Fish from scratch. You can see that there could be a situation where it was impossible to show any screenshot, because the game was not even started, and just a month or two later, you might have enough finished to show a retouched or artist's version of the game. But the final version might not match what you showed in the screenshot, once the game was 100% finished. "Space Vultures" is a great example. Catalogs from 5/82 are obviously an artist's rendition, and catalogs from 7/82 are closer to the real thing. But as you point out yourself, Olivier, the Prestige catalog shows a screenshot of the "mothership" stage of the game. You call it a faked screenshot. On that one, technically, I disagree... I suspect rather strongly that it was a real screenshot, but that legal issues kept that stage out of the final game... at least in the USA. As I said in my DPCG #7 write-up, I bet that stage was really written. It just appears to have been taken out of most, maybe all the versions. This is really something we'll all have to discuss in some depth, at a later time. By scanning catalog pictures, and comparing them to other catalog pictures, and comparing those to real screenshots, you guys will (hopefully) see what I mean. Right now, I need to focus on getting the guide finished up, since the final deadline is upon me. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "oboissea" wrote: > Just a thought about fake screnshots... > > I'm not convinced that fake screenshots were used to advertise games > when development was not advanced enough. I would rather say that, at > this time, it was not easy to get a "clean" screenshot of a game. The > printed result would be blurry and simply, bad. So often, I guess, > people prefered to hire someone to design a clean screenshot which > would look better on printed material. > > What do you think of that? This sounds funny as I try to > imagine "professional" fake screenshots designers... :-) 406 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 3:08am Subject: Re: Just posted: Ward's preface to the DPCG guide commie_fan Thanks for the nice comments about the preface, Stefan. (And the stuff you sent me in e-mail... I'll be going through that today.) As to the additional information on the Interton console group... that's Dieter's job. What I mean by that is that Dieter is writing a seperate section in the guide, all about all of those consoles. The length of most prefaces in the guide is one or two pages, and I was already up to three pages. I just needed to do enough to picque the book reader's curiousity, so that they go and read Dieter's section. A lot of things were left out, or were just barely discussed, simply because (a) there was not enough space to fit everything, and (b) I can always put it in the FAQ or elsewhere on my web site, (c) you guys have web sites that can include content I don't provide, and (d) whatever is written in the printed guide book has to stand up as being accurate for at least two years if not longer. I can update a web page overnight. Once the guide goes to the printer, that's tough luck for me... whatever I say, is in print until people buy the next edition. Some people skip three or four versions of the guide, before they buy another one, so maybe what I say has to stand up for ten years or so, in those cases. (But really, I'm only thinking in terms of the next guide version; if we release info and the audience just refuses to buy it, that's their problem.) -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Reads cool. I even was disappointed when I came to the end.... > I am just missing the fact when you mention the Interton in the final > paragraphs that the Interton is ROM compatible with the oolder > Hanimex, Radofin and Princetronic consoles. This might bring the "two > worlds" theory in a wider perspective. > Stefan 407 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 4:56am Subject: Re: Fake screenshots - where can I find a pic of the mothership? stefanpiasecki Can somebody let me know where to find a scan of this Prestige catalogue you mentioned, Ward? I'd really love to see this mothership in Space Vultures. I agree, if somebody is looking for the right image to boost a clone of Phoenix, they'd much likely take a picture of the mothership (what else). Stefan 408 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 1:06pm Subject: Re: Fake screenshots - where can I find a pic of the mothership? commie_fan See message #393... Olivier posted a link to a page he put up, with that and much more. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Can somebody let me know where to find a scan of this Prestige > catalogue you mentioned, Ward? I'd really love to see this mothership > in Space Vultures. I agree, if somebody is looking for the right > image to boost a clone of Phoenix, they'd much likely take a picture > of the mothership (what else). > Stefan 409 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 1:12pm Subject: Last minute tweaks to the DP Collectors Guide commie_fan I worked hard on the guide section today, and got a lot done. I am happy to report that it looks like I will be sending the finished data into the guide's editor, sometime during Thursday. (One day before the extended deadline; technically, it was due a full week ago.) You may want to see the bookmarks section one last time, to read it all over for coherency, if nothing else? Ditto for the newly rewritten guide preface. Any bugs that remain in either are going to be in there for at least two years... you heard the speech already. -- Ward Shrake -- 410 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 5:30pm Subject: Phoenix mentioned on TVG Space Vultures box stefanpiasecki Thanks for the link. Next to the screenshot of Space Squadron also looking quite different than the real game (the bldgs. for instance), I found something else while having a closer look at the TVG Space Vultures box. I scanned it and will put it into the Photos-section. The TVG box both shows German and English text. While the English texts stays pretty neutral and calm, the German text speaks of things like "a Phoenix-army is attacking your planet" (point 1) and "if you successfully defend yourselves, the great Phoenix appears" (point 4). The next sentence then describes that if you hit his wings, they will turn into aggressive falcons. So either the marketing guys indeed had an earlier version to look at or they just picked up the enormous interest in the game Phoenix in these days and wrapped their words around a lie, pretending that Space Vultures would be very close to the original. Stefan 411 From: "oboissea" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 7:04pm Subject: Space Vultures fake screenshot oboissea Hi dudes, I have uploaded a zoom on the Space Vulture screenshot of my MPT-03 Prestige brochure. I think it's quite clear that it is a fake one. Now, what is ever programmed? 412 From: "oboissea" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 7:05pm Subject: Space Vultures fake screenshot (bis) oboissea Sorry: I have uploaded the picture in the "photos" section of our group... :-) 413 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu May 9, 2002 7:25pm Subject: Re: Space Vultures fake screenshot stefanpiasecki Well, I am not sure if it is entirely faked. It does use the colours and standard screenelements of Arcadia-games. The birds in the background are from the opening sequence, just that the real opening sequence has more birds. I played the game again yesterday and sorry, but the game doesn't make sense. You see the bird-fomation only in the beginning. After that you can play for hours fighting against those three birds resp. some smaller birds if you hit the big bird's wings. To me it seems as if somebody went "oops, have to remove level 3 and... ah... and prior to lvl 3 I can make the code jump back to the beginning of lvl2". Okay, this is just a theory, but why should somebody spend time and efforts programming this birds-in-formation sequence in the beginning and never use it again? The whole thing looks quite ... rushed. Stefan 414 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 3:08am Subject: Re: Space Vultures fake screenshot commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "oboissea" wrote: > Hi dudes, > > I have uploaded a zoom on the Space > Vulture screenshot of my MPT-03 > Prestige brochure. Great news. Thanks! > I think it's quite clear that it is > a fake one. Now, what is ever > programmed? Everything else that the company claimed they would make, early on, they made. Everything else. Why would this one be the only exception? The preponderance of the evidence says they made it, and we just have not found it yet. Knowing them, some licensee likely released it in its original, non-legalized form. (Or it exists as a prototype.) Quoting from the FAQ on my web site, from an article Pinwhiz sent in: (Part of original 1982 magazine text) "Scheduled for launch in June are versions of Phoenix, Defender, Crazy Climber, Pac-Man, Galactica and Berzerk." (Ward's FAQ commentary on it) All of which were actually made, early on,˜despite what collectors initially thought before heavy-duty research had begun on this system. Part of the problem is that collectors were watching what Emerson and˜other licensees did, while the real action was going on with Philips, Signetics and UAL. Phoenix = the legalized Space Vultures, without the mothership, and possibly an earlier pre-legalization version that did have that stage. Defender = Space Squadron, followed by the legalized Space Raiders version. Crazy Climber = Crazy Climber did show˜up "as is" outside US markets. Pac-man = Crazy Gobbler and later also Super˜Gobbler. Let's not forget Cat-Trax, and R 2 D Tank as similar maze games. Galactica = Space Attack. (The arcade game "Galactica" was just a UK- based name for the game known in the US as "Galaxian".) Berzerk = Robot Killer at first and later the˜less-infringing, legalized Escape. (end quoted text) -- Ward Shrake -- 415 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 6:46am Subject: Re: Last minute tweaks to the DP Collectors Guide commie_fan I just posted the latest updates to the text. Check them out, please, and tell me about any errors or things that could have been done better. (This includes all the info I had, as far as I know; I went through all my remaining hard drive folders, and added everything in.) -- Ward Shrake -- 416 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 7:04am Subject: Arcadia cartridge manuals atrionfo Are there any Arcadia cartridge manuals on the Internet in text format? (I can't find any). If these manuals aren't available, then we (that is, the WHOLE group) should arrange it so that the manuals ARE available-- even if they are not translated into English. The Arcadia isn't like the VCS, there are not hundreds of manuals to re-type. We don't have to re-type every manual (or language) version for a cartridge- we could just pick one 'standard' manual and use that for other releases of the ROM. The German translations do seem to reveal some interesting material not seen in the English versions (as seen by the recent 'Space Vultures' translation), but this could be overlooked for a while. It just seems weird that it took so long for the 'Jump Bug 2' rumor to be squashed, when if all players access to the manual this might have come up sooner... What other 'weird' things might there be lurking in those manuals right in front of our faces? Hey, this group is COOL. Adam 417 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 7:25am Subject: Taking the pressure off atrionfo Ward needs to get away from the Arcadia for a little while, and I need to get away from the Astrocade for a little while. We both get our release in different ways. I thought I'd indulge my gaming interests over here in Arcadia-land again. I now have an Arcadia multicart- but I still don't have an Arcadia system. Anyone that can help me get an NTSC unit would make me a happy person... Adam 418 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 7:33am Subject: Favorite Arcadia Games atrionfo What are your favorite Arcadia games? This has probably been asked a thousand time before- well, point me to the answers. Is there any website that has game reviews for this system or its ROM compatibles? Ward mentioned that it might be nice to see Golf running on a real Arcadia. How many people have an interest in this? I don't mean, "Oh, that would be cool if someone did that." I mean, how many people would say, "Cool! Now I can play that game again!" With all this talk of Space Vultures going on, and the 'lost level (s),' I'm confused: was the game a letdown or didn't anyone notice the missing levels (I know someone here mentioned that they bought the game THINKING the levels were going to be there). Was the game good anyway, or do most people think that the lack of extra 'stuff' ruined the game? If you had to give a top five best, what would they be? What about a top five worst? Don't just give a list, give some supporting reasons. That's what makes it interesting. Adam 419 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 7:40am Subject: Who here knows ANY machine language? atrionfo There hasn't been much feedback on the machine language information I posted a few weeks ago (disassembling, assembling, etc). Is this because no one understands what the I'm talking about, or no one cares? If no one understands, let me know and I'll see if I can do to tone it down to levels that make sense to an average gamer. If no one cares, well, I don't think that there is much that can be done about that, is there? This system could really be opened up if a few people put their heads together. Wouldn't it be neat to see a couple of demos or something? I'd be thrilled to see a little guy running across the screen, maybe being chased by a rocket or something. A game would be a lot of work, but just moving graphics around might be fun. We could create a little cartoon or something- just to stir the waters. Adam 420 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 7:44am Subject: What 2650 computers exist? atrionfo I've done some searching on the Internet, and the signetics 2650 CPU wasn't used in many machines. Were the only computers that used it 'hobby' computers? Is there a list that covers them all? Are there any docs on these computers in English? These programmers that have been contacted- do ANY of them have ANY source-code (even just fragments of a printout)? Adam 421 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 7:47am Subject: RE: Favorite Arcadia Games tempest_2084 My favorite Arcadia games are the arcade conversions. I think most of the original games are pretty lousy. My top five are: 1. Pleiades 2. Route 16 3. Jump Bug 4. R2D Tank 5. Red Clash Tempest -----Original Message----- From: Adam Trionfo [mailto:ballyalley@...] Sent: Thursday, May 09, 2002 5:33 PM To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Favorite Arcadia Games What are your favorite Arcadia games? This has probably been asked a thousand time before- well, point me to the answers. Is there any website that has game reviews for this system or its ROM compatibles? Ward mentioned that it might be nice to see Golf running on a real Arcadia. How many people have an interest in this? I don't mean, "Oh, that would be cool if someone did that." I mean, how many people would say, "Cool! Now I can play that game again!" With all this talk of Space Vultures going on, and the 'lost level (s),' I'm confused: was the game a letdown or didn't anyone notice the missing levels (I know someone here mentioned that they bought the game THINKING the levels were going to be there). Was the game good anyway, or do most people think that the lack of extra 'stuff' ruined the game? If you had to give a top five best, what would they be? What about a top five worst? Don't just give a list, give some supporting reasons. That's what makes it interesting. Adam To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 422 From: "ventrra" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 11:09am Subject: Re: Who here knows ANY machine language? ventrra Adam: Well...It IS difficult for some of us to understand (I never even really got the hang of using BASIC for programming.) However I have used your "Hello World" engine to explore its limits a bit. I'm going to post the binaries in the files section as message.bin and counter.bin. I can think of one primitive way to make things move on the screen, though I have no idea how to go about doing it. It seems that if your "Hello World" could refresh the screen with new instructions each time it would only be a matter of placing a character, refreshing the screen, and placing it in a new place. As you can see, though. I don't hink it's a matter of no one cares. I think that there are probably others interested, however... Charles Morgan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > There hasn't been much feedback on the machine language information I posted > a few weeks ago (disassembling, assembling, etc). Is this because no one > understands what the I'm talking about, or no one cares? > > If no one understands, let me know and I'll see if I can do to tone it down > to levels that make sense to an average gamer. If no one cares, well, I > don't think that there is much that can be done about that, is there? > > This system could really be opened up if a few people put their heads > together. Wouldn't it be neat to see a couple of demos or something? I'd > be thrilled to see a little guy running across the screen, maybe being > chased by a rocket or something. A game would be a lot of work, but just > moving graphics around might be fun. We could create a little cartoon or > something- just to stir the waters. > > Adam 423 From: "ventrra" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 11:17am Subject: Re: What 2650 computers exist? ventrra Adam: Have you looked at either of those Signetics books that you could get from the library? It looks like they meant to have some serious machines using the 2650 to me. There are several of them shown in the Bipolar/MOS Microprocessor Data Manual. I've seen a few places that had some source code, but I'd had trouble with either the sites or my computer and couldn't download them, so I could be wrong about that. Charles Morgan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I've done some searching on the Internet, and the signetics 2650 CPU wasn't > used in many machines. Were the only computers that used it 'hobby' > computers? Is there a list that covers them all? Are there any docs on > these computers in English? These programmers that have been contacted- do > ANY of them have ANY source-code (even just fragments of a printout)? > > Adam 424 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri May 10, 2002 2:59pm Subject: Re: Proof-reading requested on guide write-up slapdash26 At 2:21 AM +0000 5/7/02, commie_fan wrote: >http://classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/arcadia7.doc Sorry I haven't had the time to really give this a going over... I've wanted to say that I think generic MPT-03 carts should still be listed under their sellers even if the seller doesn't brand the cart, but I realize that may be a tricky goal, and I really apologize if that's already been discussed (I haven't had time to read most of the recent posts, but seeing how close the deadline is...). Now, as the the M1800 you mention... It occurred to me that I had some pictures -- really awful, backwards, crappy pix, but pix nonetheless. So, I posted them to the photos section. No idea as to manufacturer (er, well, small idea that it was either Conic or Sheen, but wasn't sure), but you can see that there was a Soccer cart as well as Space -- I can't quite make it out, but maybe one of you sharp-eyed youngsters can. It may be Space Squadron?? So, sorry so late, but there are two more to add. Don't ask where I got the pix though... Can't remember. Probably just saw someone asking about the system in the newsgroups and I asked if they had pix, and those are what I got (almost artistically bad). -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 425 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 4:21pm Subject: Palladium cart list: an observation commie_fan While going over info for the guide, and entering the part numbers that Stefan had sent me, I noticed a pattern to the Palladium's part number listing that had escaped me before. It seems simple, now that I have seen it... just ignore the last digit. (Each is "775 / xxx".) If you do that, the carts seem to start at "01" and go through "17" with only one or two holes in the list. As Stefan pointed out, it seems like the games become increasingly complex, with each game. Then our current list jumps upwards to "23" with "Escape"; one of the legalized games, based on "Robot Killer" which was basically "Berzerk". There are a lot of observations that I'll get to in time, now that the guide is basically all but finished, but I'm in no huge hurry. -- Ward Shrake -- 426 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 5:00pm Subject: Re: Arcadia cartridge manuals stefanpiasecki Well, I could translate and scan *some* of the manuals. If then somebody would brush up my English.... Stefan 427 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 10, 2002 8:29pm Subject: Re: Arcadia cartridge manuals atrionfo >> Well, I could translate and scan *some* of the manuals. If then somebody would brush up my English.... Stefan >> Well, I don't see any reason to start translating the manuals yet- that job is down the road a bit. Why not just type in a couple of manuals in your native tongue, and when we get a couple dozen together we will all compare notes. I'd type in a couple manuals to get the ball rolling, but I don't have any manuals to start with... If anyone here in the states wants to send me a few manuals, I'll type them in a return them. Adam 428 From: slapdash Date: Sat May 11, 2002 1:16am Subject: Re: Re: Arcadia cartridge manuals slapdash26 On Fri, 10 May 2002, stefanpiasecki wrote: > Well, I could translate and scan *some* of the manuals. If then > somebody would brush up my English... I'm not saying I have the time (oy), but I might volunteer here and there to help out. I've done proofreading for a few other hobbyist projects, and if I had the original German text for any of them, it might help my German along too. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 429 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat May 11, 2002 3:27am Subject: Re: Arcadia cartridge manuals commie_fan This is a future project for me, 'cause I need a break, big time. But I will add this, for the time being... "clear" is the pause button on the hand controllers, in most games that have a pause feature. The "un-pause" button is generally "enter". That's common. A lot of games don't really need much of an overlay, but just having those would be a big step forward in understanding some of these games. I have some manuals and overlays on my hard drive, that will *eventually* find their way onto my web site, for all to see. -- Ward Shrake -- 430 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat May 11, 2002 11:06am Subject: I'm done, I'm done! Finally! I am "on strike"! commie_fan I'm done, I'm done! Finally! About freakin' time... My stupid section for the guide is now officially as finalized as it is going to get, for this version of the guide. Errors and so on are going to be inevitable, considering that we discovered all sorts of stuff just over a month ago. I'm surprised that we got all this done, given the time period we had to work with, and the amount of new info. If you want to see the latest versions, see the bookmark section. I just uploaded the last revisions, and told Joe Santulli where to find it. So, technically, the last of my three sections for the guide have been submitted... the "Coleco Telstar Arcade" and the "Commodore VIC-20" and now the "Arcadia 2001" section. So, I am officially "on strike" now, and planning to ENJOY it, big time! I have a month's worth of video taped TV shows to watch, games of Robotron to play, and all sorts of non-game-research type stuff to do! -- Ward Shrake -- 431 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sat May 11, 2002 5:08pm Subject: Re: I'm done, I'm done! Finally! I am "on strike"! stefanpiasecki Congratulations. I was a sheer joy to help you on this and to contribute little pieces of the puzzle that you put together. Have a cool time (I wished I could also just dive into my pile of video-cassettes and watch some 70s sf-classics for a day or two, ahhhh). Stefan 432 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 3:10am Subject: Re: Favorite Arcadia Games stefanpiasecki Great idea, Matt. I'd love to see those favorites of the others, too. Here are mine: Best 5: 1) Tanks a Lot Great hide and shoot game. Multiple strategies possible. My 20 years old highscore is higher than 70000 points!!! 2) Turtles/Turpin Nice game, cute background story. There's also some strategy to it. 3) Jump Bug IMO best graphics on the Arcadia, large variety of screens. 4) Pleiades A lot of action, many different screens and a true arcade conversion. 5) Cattrax Faster and more playable than the other clones - and it has novel game elements. Worst 5 (#1 is worst): 1) Ocean Battle What the heck am I supposed to do here? And yes, I read that f... manual!! 2) Alien Invaders Cannot start without having to wait for the title music and there's only one go, then you must start over again. Oh, dear, no good Space Invaders clone for this system 3) Space Vultures The first level is cool, and then you can battle against those same 3 giant-birds for, well yes, for literally hours 4) Soccer Okay, I am European and I like soccer, but this is NOT soccer, no game of speed and strategy. This is just... as ridiculous than playing Ocean Battle on a lawn 5) Brain Quiz Just never got into it. Playing Hangman against the computer would be interesting, but next to somebody against a human player? In front of the TV? Come on... Most surprising 5: 1, 2, 3) Space Attack, Robot Killer, Crazy Gobbler Now since we have access to emulated Arcade Roms it becomes apparent how close to the original these games are (Galaxians, Berzerk, PacMan) 4) 3D Bowling Have this game for years and started to play it some weeks ago. This game is fun!!! 5) 3D Soccer Probably the first Iso3D realtime soccer game of this era. Play against a human or CPU player. Speedy game. Good fun 433 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 3:45am Subject: Re: Favorite Arcadia Games commie_fan Keep this thread going, guys. I'm enjoying it, and it would be good stuff to include in the guide, too. (Yes, I know the section is already complete... but Joe the Editor likes to put graphic symbols next to any cart that is really fun to play, or is NOT fun to play.) Personally, "Astro Invader" is one of my all-time favorites for this console. Run your finger across the buttons on the keypad, for a rapid fire feature; its neat on real system! I think "Red Clash" has its moments, too. Not a bad game. I always like "Astro Blaster" in the arcades, and this reminds me of that. -- Ward Shrake -- 434 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 3:57am Subject: Pictures of weird items, and cool items commie_fan Hey all. If you have pictures of weird items related to the Arcadia 2001 console, post them to the photo section. I told the guide's editor that if he wants such pics (and he does), to browse through our photo section, when he gets to that point (sometime next week). Cool items count too; stuff like really rare carts. For instance, that set of pictures that Olivier posted on his personal site with the "Tennis: Yannick Noah" cart; the only one that used a photograph for the cartridge label. That should be in the photo section, so the editor can do one-stop-shopping. (And we don't lose track of it.) We have quite a bit of space, so start taking some pics, guys! -- Ward Shrake -- 435 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 6:25am Subject: Re: Pictures of weird items, and cool items stefanpiasecki I will now upload a picture of a Palladium console (this is Matts Mr. Altus machine) and my boxed Tele-Fever system. Stefan 436 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 11:33am Subject: Arcadia emulator compatibility list? atrionfo Is there a list of the games that are 100% compatible with the Arcadia emulator? While I'm waiting for an Arcadia 2001 system to fall on me (like manna from heaven), I have been using the emulator (and most of the ROMS). I haven't run into any REAL trouble, but some games seem to play too fast, while others play fine. I'm not sure if this is my machine (1.8 GHz P4), the version of MESS I'm using (.56) or if this is just how fast a game is meant to be. Is there someplace to read-up on this subject? Adam 437 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 1:56pm Subject: Re: Arcadia emulator compatibility list? commie_fan It's your machine... it has to be. If there was ever a big complaint about Arcadia games, it is NOT that the real games are paced too quickly. Quite the opposite; some of them ooze along like snails. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Is there a list of the games that are 100% compatible with the Arcadia > emulator? While I'm waiting for an Arcadia 2001 system to fall on me (like > manna from heaven), I have been using the emulator (and most of the ROMS). > I haven't run into any REAL trouble, but some games seem to play too fast, > while others play fine. I'm not sure if this is my machine (1.8 GHz P4), > the version of MESS I'm using (.56) or if this is just how fast a game is > meant to be. Is there someplace to read-up on this subject? > > Adam 438 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 1:58pm Subject: Re: Pictures of weird items, and cool items commie_fan Warning: the guide's editor just told me that he needs all pictures NO LATER THAN WEDNESDAY the 15th. After that, it most likely will not be included. Anything you have should be posted to the photo section NOW rather than later, if you want to see it included in the guide. (Not trying to be rude; there are just firm deadlines involved.) -- Ward Shrake -- 439 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun May 12, 2002 3:51pm Subject: Re: I'm done, I'm done! Finally! I am "on strike"! slapdash26 Ward writes: >I'm done, I'm done! Finally! About freakin' time... Oops... Looks like I didn't get the M1800 info in in time? I'm now thinking the other cart is Space Mission. I did look for other pix (noting your other thread), but didn't have anything else of interest I don't think. Er, except maybe the Dr Slump and Doraemon scans? BTW, I just noticed... I received an MPT-03 cart in the mail; no idea who made it, but it's the "standard" look. But here's where it gets odd... It's "Alien Invader", MG-306, but there's another label underneath, which says "Alien Armada" and is numbered VGC-306. Hrm? I didn't see "Armada" on the list anywhere, so it looks like we already have a new name variation! Anyway, I don't expect you to do anything with this info, but put it somewhere safe for when you get back from vacation. :-) And kudos on all your hard work, man. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 440 From: "kiwigame" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 4:26pm Subject: Re: Pictures of weird items, and cool items kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Warning: the guide's editor just told me that he needs all pictures > NO LATER THAN WEDNESDAY the 15th. After that, it most likely will not > be included. Anything you have should be posted to the photo >section Ward - I thought you were having a break! Get back to those videos man! I've just uploaded 3 pics which are scans from the UKs "Computer & Video Games" magazine. They are: June 1982 announcement by Hamimex of the system. Dec 1982 reviews of Cat Trax and Escape Jan 1983 review of Space Vultures As far as I can tell these are the only reviews/mentions in C&VG of the Hanimex console.... No good for the guide but interesting reading... Notes: The gap between announcement & actual release was quite long. In this time the opposition had clearly moved on: (in the Dec 82 issue 2600 ET, Pitfall & the Intellivoice games were also reviewed) Theres no connection made to Pheonix and any mention of the Mothership in the Space Vultures review. Cheers! Mike 441 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun May 12, 2002 4:51pm Subject: Re: Who here knows ANY machine language? slapdash26 Adam Trionfo wrote: >There hasn't been much feedback on the machine language information I posted >a few weeks ago (disassembling, assembling, etc). Is this because no one >understands what the I'm talking about, or no one cares? It's basically that I don't have time. And even if I did, I'd probably start with the 2600 or the Vectrex, though there's a certain lure to trying to do some code for this machine, just because who else will? :-) As to the question in your subject, I've done assembly coding in the past, but not in a long time. I'm sure I could do it again, but I'm not sure how well... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 442 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 5:33pm Subject: Re: I'm done, I'm done! Finally! I am "on strike"! stefanpiasecki Hi Russ, I also received 5 MPT-03 carts from Australia some 2 weeks ago and these carts also show at least 2 layers of labels. You can see that there is a name underneath the upper label, but I didn't care too much as I didn't want to remove the first one and I thought that maybe the guys who put the labels on the cart put it on in the wrong direction so that they had to relabel it (because at least one label was placed wrong). I'll have a closer look. Stefan 443 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 5:35pm Subject: Re: Pictures of weird items, and cool items stefanpiasecki Hi Mike, thanks for uploading the scans, although they are pretty hard to read. Could you send me those scans by email? By the way, I also uploaded (German) reviews of the Hanimex console and it shows a short-style Crazy Gobbler cart. My TVG cart is long- style. Does anybody have a Hanimex version of the game? Stefan 444 From: "kiwigame" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 7:36pm Subject: Re: Pictures of weird items, and cool items kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Hi Mike, > thanks for uploading the scans, although they are pretty hard to > read. Could you send me those scans by email? argggh I think this is something yahoo does to the pics... They were fine when I uploaded them. Ah just tested it & if you view them on yahoo they look crap as they shirnk them to fit into the view window. Just save them to your own PC & then look at them to see them at the correct resolution. Cheers Michael 446 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 9:26pm Subject: "Hounded By The Dog Catcher Cat Trax" Article in text format atrionfo Mike uploaded a few scans of Arcadia reviews yesterday. Though simply written (and poorly edited), they are great time-capsules. I have retyped one of them for those who don't care to download the picture. It's great having the reviews of these two games ('Cat Trax' and 'Escape'), but without proper historical documentation these reviews lose much of their value. Here's why: read the review and then imagine it was written yesterday- the meaning becomes lost (and sounds foolish) without proper context. When the review is read with the understanding that it was written in 1982 and not 2002, it gains it's original value. For this reason, I want to properly give credit to this the original publication, but with the information provided by Mike I can't do this. Here's the information I have: Unknown, Author,. "Hounded By The Dog Catcher Cat Trax," COMPUTER & VIDEO GAMES ?, no. ? (December 1982): ?. If you don't know how to read the above, here is the breakdown: Author Last Name, Author First Name, Article Title, Magazine, Volume, Issue, (Month Year): Page. The information that is missing is the author, the volume number, the issue number and the page number. Mike, could you post this additional information for each of the three articles? It's important to have this information. When proper documentation procedures are followed, it allows future reference to this material to be usable. The Internet is a great tool for research- just look at all the information that this group has been able to gather together on the Arcadia system! The information is no more than amusing side-notes if there is no documentation with it. That's because without documentation the material CAN'T be used for digital archaeology purposes. Documenting research is more than a good habit- proper research can not be conducted without it... Enjoy the two reviews ('Escape' IS towards the end of the review)! Hounded By The Dog Catcher Cat Trax Cat Trax is the first new Pacman type game I have seen since Mattell's [sic] Lock 'n' Chase to offer any real development of the basic theme. In this version you can actually change the shape of the maze as the game is in progress. A series of gates which can be closed to turn the maze into a single long passage can be opened and shut to trap the dogs that are chasing you around the maze. You are a cat being pursued around a maze by three dogs. As you travel you eat up the dots which fill the maze until the maze has been cleared. Every so often a fish will appear at the centre of the maze. If you eat this you will change into a dog collecting van which you drive around the maze in persuit [sic] of the dogs which can be deposited in the kennel at the top of the maze. But you will have to be quick as you change back into a cat 30 seconds after eating the fish. The game also features a warp button which enables you to disappear if the dogs are about to catch you and the reappear in a different part of the maze. It runs on the Hanimex HMG5000. Escape is the name of the game in this second new offering from Hanimex this month. You are trapped in an electronic maze with highly charged walls which, if you touch them, the walls will electrocute you. The aliens are after you. You must shoot them shoot them out of the way before you make a dash for the exit of the maze. There is also a deadly spinning dicky-bow shaped flying saucer which will take off and home in on you at any moment. This cannot be shot by your figure. Arcade veterans will recognise [sic] this as a version of the popular video favourite -- Beserk [sic]. The games are in the shops now at o16. Original Source: Unknown, Author,. "Hounded By The Dog Catcher Cat Trax," COMPUTER & VIDEO GAMES ?, no. ? (December 1982): ?. 447 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 9:50pm Subject: "Who's Not a Pretty Boy Then! Space Vultures" Article in text format atrionfo Here is another Arcadia game review that I retyped. Mike, if you can provide the missing details on this one (even the year is missing on this one- is it 1982 or 1983). The 'original source' information is listed right after the review. One of the author's final comments seems to scream out 'Hey, this game is too easy!' Check this out: "Despite this the Vultures are still pretty easy to deal with. This particular Defender Ship pilot managed to shoot down wave after wave of them on his second go." Adam Who's Not a Pretty Boy Then! Space Vultures Space Vultures are a vicious breed of birdlike aliens who can fly through space without the aid of a space ship. They will attack any old planet that takes their fancy on their strange intergalactic migration. Nobody seems to know where they are going, or for what purpose, but then it does not really matter to you -- the lone pilot of the sole remaining planetary Defender Ship. Your duty is cleat. Shoot down the aliens before they shoot you and colonise [sic] your planet for their evil, bird-like overlords. The vultures attack in groups of three, hovering around the screen and then homing in on your space ship. You are armed with an energy shield which will protect you for a few seconds, enabling you to survive a head-on collision with the aliens and shrug off their laser fire. If you survive the first wave of Vultures you are then challenged by the super birds who are several times the size of their predecessors and who attack in waves of three. These super adversaries take more than one direct hit to finish off. They swoop down straight towards your ship bombarding you with missiles. You will need to shoot fast and accurately to down them before they down you. One drawback that Defender Ship pilots very quickly have to come to terms with is the slowness of the ship's missiles. They jerk very awkwardly skywards. Despite this the Vultures are still pretty easy to deal with. This particular Defender Ship pilot managed to shoot down wave after wave of them on his second go. Space Vultures is the latest game for the new Hanimex HMG2650. The game is available from Hanimex stocklists at approximately o20. Original Source: Unknown, Author,. "Who's Not a Pretty Boy Then! Space Vultures," COMPUTER & VIDEO GAMES ?, no. ? (January 198?(2 or 3?)): ?. 448 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 10:15pm Subject: "Family Favourites Home Arcade" Article in text format atrionfo Here is a retyped review of the Hanimex Home Arcade Centre. In this review, Stern's arcade game "Berzerk" is misspelled as "Beserk." This game was spelled incorrectly (in the same way) in the Cat Trax review. Was "Berzerk" released outside of America with another spelling? Also, Mike, can you fill me in on the missing "original source' details? One last detail, Yahoo usually wraps email (in other words it adds hard carriage returns at the end of every line). After Mike fills me in on all the source information, I'll gather these reviews into one text file and post it in the file area, this way the articles are in one place and the nasty line-wrapping will be gone. Adam Family Favourites Home Arcade Keep your eyes open for a new home games centre dedicated to arcade games. Called the Hanimex Home Arcade Centre it will be on sale at the end of June. Swindon based Hanimex is launching its new system with a total of 17 game cartridges, six of which are versions of money-spinning arcade favorites. The Home Arcade incorporates the handsets used by the Mattel Intellivsion centre. These differ from conventional hand controllers because they consist of a circular disc with which you make your maneuvers. Others use a joystick device. Retailing at around o89 Home Arcade follows in the footsteps of Hanimex's other video games centre, the Interton VC4000. According to Hanimex the new centre is based on a more advanced system than the Interton. Software for Home Arcade springs initially from a Hanimex team who then pass it on to an American sub-contractor which designs and writes each program. The manufacturing process is taking place at the firm's Swindon factory. Scheduled for launch in June are versions of Phoenix, Defender, Crazy Climber, Pacman, Galactica and Beserk [sic]. Plans are afoot to continue bringing out new games [sic] cartridges for the new games centre which will be of an equally [sic] standard and meet public demand. Future releases include Centipede, Jungler and Galaga. At the same time Hanimex will carry on marketing the Interton VC4000. Original Source: Unknown, Author,. "Family Favourites Home Arcade," COMPUTER & VIDEO GAMES ?, no. ? (June 1982): 23. 449 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 10:57pm Subject: Requested Data Manuals and Using WorldCat for Research atrionfo Yesterday I went to the public library and requested an inter-library loan for five of the Signetics data manuals. The manuals are: -- "Signetics Logic -- TTL -- specifications -- military summary" - 1978 -- "Signetics bipolar & MOS memory: data manual" - 1979 -- "Signetics logic-TTL data manual: specifications, military summary" -- 1978 -- "Signetics bipolar/MOS microprocessor data book" - 1977 -- "Signetics 2650 Microprocessor" -- 1975 The librarian told me not to be too hopeful since these books are VERY uncommon. However, she said it was worth a shot. I agree; the worst that can happen is that the other library denies my request. About "WorldCat" Here's some information I learned from the librarian about the "WorldCat" service I'm using to try to get these books. WorldCat has been around since about 1972, and is pretty popular with librarians and people doing research. Almost all public libraries are a part of it, and many private libraries are too. I'll probably have to pay shipping to get the books, but not all public libraries require this fee (maybe it's part of the taxes we pay- a service that hardly anyone uses?). Most libraries have access to the service, and you may be able to use the database from home (like I did) if your local library has a web interface. There are other databases available from my library that give access to HUGE amounts of newspaper and magazine articles. The databases don't cover everything (just the more popular publications), but if you know which magazine or newspaper clipping you want, you can request it from the librarian, and you will receive a copy (usually from a microfiche archive). This service is usually free, but it may take a while. I look at it this way- getting the information (in days, weeks, or even months), or not getting the information at all. If any readers point-out good magazine articles or reviews, maybe we can tap into this service. We need to be very specific about what we want; that's why it's so important to know the original source and to be able to give as much information about it as possible (see my prefaces to the three Arcadia reviews I typed in). If we follow the standard documentation method for periodicals (author's name, title of article, title of periodical, issue information (volume, issue number, date) and page reference), then we can't go wrong. Example: Cornett, Fred. "Pack Rat," CURSOR, 3, no. 2 (May/June 1981): 23. This example is a review of the game "Pack Rat" for the Astrocade. With this information in hand, we have everything we need to find what we are looking for. In this case, CURSOR is an Astrocade newsletter that is damned-near impossible to find- but that doesn't matter-- at least we know where to start. It's a lot better than, "there was this review of a game called 'Pack Rat' in some Astrocade newsletter from the eighties." You see what I mean? Getting information that is not on the 'net will become a big part digital archeology, but it's a step that's not easy to take, so few people choose to pursue it (even though it means ignoring mountains of knowledge). Remember, the Internet doesn't have everything, it doesn't even have most things, indeed, for non-casual research purposes it usually has a whole lot of nothing. Adam 450 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun May 12, 2002 11:21pm Subject: Comments on Four Bandai pictures atrionfo Comments on the four Bandai pictures that Russ posted: Let me make a sweeping generalization about Japanese games: they always look so cool! Who wouldn't want to play these games after looking at the box art? Compare the Bandai art with the Mr. Altus pictures, and you'll see what I mean. Doraemon - It's just so CUTE. What does the suffix "mon" mean? Pokemon, Digimon, Doraemon: what's the relation? I don't mean, are the games related (I know they aren't), I mean, how are the words related? Dr. Slump - Which game is this? It looks so. Japanese. I always had a special place in my heart for the Turbo Duo because of it's art- am I going to have to feel this way for Arcadia Bandai releases? Macross - The art LOOKS so damn good. Imagine getting this cart home and thinking, "Wow, the game it looks exactly the same as the box!" Well, maybe not. Gundam - More excellent art. Now, what are these games? Which one's are based on a TV series? I've read bits and pieces, but can we put four titles on these? Russ, I hope your hard drive doesn't crash; do you keep backups of this? Adam 451 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 0:01am Subject: Trouble with pics in Photo section atrionfo Michael wrote: >> Ah just tested it & if you view them on yahoo they look crap as they shirnk them to fit into the view window. Just save them to your own PC & then look at them to see them at the correct resolution. >> I can pictures to my PC, but they are still 'shrunk' to the size of the view window. Here's an example of a picture and its description: German game reviews 2 Resolution: 371 x 480 Thumbnail: 2KB | Screen Size: 54 KB | Full Size: 952 KB I can't get the 953K "full size" version- Michael, how are you able to do this? Yahoo doesn't use direct links, and save-as doesn't work... I even have administrator privileges on this discussion group, yet I still can't do it. What am I overlooking? You know, I'm going to get the picture and I'm still not going to be able to read it (I don't know German), but I'm curious (and frustrated) as to how it's done. Adam 452 From: "oboissea" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 1:24am Subject: Re: Pictures of weird items oboissea Hi Ward, do you need pix of systems too in the photo section? 453 From: "oboissea" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 1:27am Subject: Re: Favorite Arcadia Games oboissea I can't really list my to 5 games... as I don't have a lot of carts. But one thing I can say: the playing feeling in the emulator is quite different from the real thing. Auto Race, for example, is REALLY playable and enjoyable on the real system. A really excellent TWO PLAYERS game. This would be for sure my number 1 game. I tried it on the emulator, and it's much harder (too fast? different sensations...) 454 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 2:17am Subject: Re: Comments on Four Bandai pictures stefanpiasecki The suffix "mon" stands for "monster(s)". Pokemon -> Pocket Monsters Now collect them all 9;)) Stefan 455 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 2:18am Subject: Japanese games stefanpiasecki Russ, does Ward already have these games archived? Would you loan them to him? I guess we all are dead-keen on having a look at them. Pleeeaaaaaaasssseeeeeee Stefan 456 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 2:19am Subject: Re: Trouble with pics in Photo section stefanpiasecki Okay, if anybody wants the scan emailed, let me know. I can also make a short translation of them (but not today). Stefan 457 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 2:21am Subject: Re: Favorite Arcadia Games stefanpiasecki Similar thing with my favourite, Tanks a lot. Playing it with a keyboard on the emulator is great. Control is great. It plays worse on the standard Arcadia, but almost as good on the Tele-Fever with it's arcade style sticks. Stefan 458 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 2:23am Subject: Looking for some Arcadia games stefanpiasecki Hi, I am looking for some quite common Arcadia (or other manufacturer's silver style) games: - Space Attack - Funky Fish (okay okay) - 3D Bowling - American Football (need the manual only) - Grandslam Tennis - Jungler Does anybody have spare copies of these games and is willing to seel/trade them? Thanks Stefan 459 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 3:32am Subject: Re: Pictures of weird items, and cool items commie_fan I just now noticed that Yahoo! *SERIOUSLY* screws up high-res pictures, on these boards. I uploaded some pics using the "large" format button, to try to bypass their shrink-down process. It did not work; they compressed the hell out of them, regardless. The solution I suggest for the short term is to upload any really hi-res stuff to the files section instead. Hopefully, those won't get compressed or anything? Either way it seems kind of lame... maybe we should just upload stuff to our own web sites? But I was (and am) concerned about getting Joe from Digital Press the best possible pics, so he can make up a photo display in the guide that makes this console group look interesting. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "kiwigame" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" > wrote: > > Hi Mike, > > thanks for uploading the scans, although they are pretty hard to > > read. Could you send me those scans by email? > > argggh I think this is something yahoo does to the pics... > They were fine when I uploaded them. > > Ah just tested it & if you view them on yahoo they look crap > as they shirnk them to fit into the view window. > Just save them to your own PC & then look at them to see them at the > correct resolution. > > Cheers > > Michael 460 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 5:14am Subject: Hardcore research procedures commie_fan I want to comment publicly on something Adam Trionfo said, in message #446. (And others since.) Adam's comments are NOT out of line... he and I have discussed this sort of thing extensively in the past. We both feel that, frankly, most "research" done on many game systems has often been shit, in terms of documenting who-said-what-when. (He said it a lot nicer; I'm only speaking for myself, when I said that.) On a personal level, most of what other hobbyists think of as being research, I think of as being potentially plagiarized misinformation. I don't say this to be elitist, and I am not saying any of this applies to our current efforts. (One of the nice features of a message board like this one is the automatic recording of who said what, with a time and date stamp. That's partly why I started it.) I do not say that to be rude, mean, disrespectful, or anything like that. For awhile, I was doing things the way everyone else did it, in my early VIC-20 research. About 3/4 of the way through that, I got sick of all of the rumors and so on, that no one could even tell who started them, what they based it on, and what degree of credibility that source has. Some people's word on something is -- let's face it - - worth a whole lot more than some other people's word on something. That goes for magazines in general, magazine authors, and I'net guys. (I have no one in mind; I'm just seeing things in a generalized way.) I began noting not only what ads said, but what magazines / issues / dates / pages that information was included in. I began including full and unedited quotes, wherever space would allow me to do so. I also went out of my way to figure out who wrote what, game-wise; I went into the ROM image code, looking for hidden ASCII messages. Perhaps more importantly, I took the entire cart list from the VIC-20 console, and assigned each cart a credibility level of zero... it was just a name on a list, a rumor, until someone could prove to me that one or more copies actually existed. And they had to prove it to me, with a much higher level of credibility than other I'net researchers allowed. At that point, it moved up to "confirmed". After that, when someone would loan me (or Paul LeBrasse) a cart, we'd archive it, and it would move up to the top of our Internet-based cart list. As as example: someone just this week sent me information that is two years out of date, and that my own web site says is out of date. This well-meaning person was wasting my time, but he was all excited about his "findings". He felt what he was doing was research. I disagree. Anyone can type a few keywords into a search engine. It is the use of one's disciplined mind to find and sort through the totality of the info found that way, to know all the info "out there" and to weigh each bit of it, that constitutes what I think of as actual research. And as Adam pointed out, non-Internet research is going to be the wave of the future, in "Digital Archaeology" circles. But that takes work, and most people simply won't do it. They'll take too many shortcuts. They do it now, and I have to assume they'll continue? This guy told me that "Super Bug" was now independently confirmed, and that this person was sure it existed. That had my attention, until I read why he was saying it. He was referring to the original catalog I had found on Retro Rene Kamerbeek's web site. A catalog is not proof; there are far too many factors working against that idea. (Faked screenshots, source code rewritten in minor ways to make a "new" game, infringing and legalized versions of the same game, etc.) He sent me a lo-res scan. I'd had that actual catalog in my own two hands, when Retro Rene loaned me the three carts his web site talks about. All of which was listed under "news" on my web site. Did this person read any of that? Obviously not, or he would not have done what he did, and send me an inferior copy of something, from a web site that I already had posted multiple links to, on my site. What does this show? That if you don't look hard enough, click on all the links available, and spend time, you'll end up partially educated. It took YEARS to disprove the "Jump Bug 2" rumor. Back in 1997, a few games like that one were listed in Internet lists, which were used by place like Digital Press, when they printed their books. The former author of the Arcadia 2001 section, Russ Perry Jr., publicly asked for someone to come forward and give more information, as to why these carts were even listed as rumors. Five years went by, before we found out what was really going on. Five years where we wondered if a game MIGHT have existed, just because no one properly attributed the real sources of the rumor. If they had said, "I'm basing this on a screenshot, and here's the screenshot in scanned form" we could have dismissed this nonsense years ago. It was, as I see it, wasted time. The screenshot is obviously a fake; the letters on the screen are not even lined up in a straight line, for crying out loud. Lesson? If you don't have all the info available, you'll never be able to solve mysteries. (Hence another reason for these boards; a common place, where all of us can access all the info available.) This same (unnamed) person also told me that he found 48 ROM images online... but did not say where. He said this disproves the common belief that only 30 or 40 carts exist. I had no choice but to tell this guy that if he had actually been paying attention, he would have seen on my web site a list of nearly 350 cartridges! And the ROMs he was offering to send to me, if I did not already have them, had been publicly listed on my web site's "archiving list" for years. Lesson? The same as before; use all of your available resources. I can see how a person might think there was not much info "out there" on this subject, and that we might have to grasp at any straw we found. But that's not the case, and reading my web site would have proven it. This person got my e-mail address from my web site's own links, so you would have thought they'd spend time "looking around"? Because I'm the one and only person that still is actively archiving games, I'm well aware of what is online. I recently made sure that Digital Press' web site had everything... which is more than likely where this person found these ROMs. But he could have saved himself the inevitable embarrassment of my reply, if he had just scrolled through the short news section on DP's site, to see their public announcement that (a) they now had more than anyone else, and (b) that Ward Shrake had sent them all of these "nowhere else" ROMs. Lesson? This lack of caring on his part, who did what, caused his embarrassment. I don't want to fall victim to that same trap! This is just one example; many others are possible. Moving on... Far too many people take anything they hear as being just as valid and credible as anything else they hear. Guys like Adam Trionfo and myself have trained ourselves to DIS-believe everything we hear, until we have a darned good reason to put faith in something we've heard. (He in the Bally world, me with this one.) As a wise man once said, "Belief in one false principle is the beginning of all unwisdom". One of the hobby's most prestigious publications is full of errors; the book "Phoenix". That would not be so bad, but he attributes far too few of his quotes and implications and so on, making it virtually impossible to move backwards a few steps, correct the error, and move forward again. So from my perspective, the book is semi-useless. It offers me a starting place, but by no means do I see it as "gospel". Keep in mind that I accuse my own self of being full of shit, in the guide preface I just wrote, so I'm not being too unfair here. (I said that most of what I wrote in DPCG #6 was arguably in error, and that it was so simply because of one or two bad assumptions. That Emerson had more to do with this console than we thought, for instance.) What is the solution? Proper attribution. Adam's comments that info without context is nearly useless, are right on the money, 100%. At this point in retro-gaming history, people like Adam and Ward are looked at curiously, as if we are strange people. That's sad, to me. Not because we're misunderstood, but because so much good info is out there, but is next to useless to serious researchers, because it is the habit of many people in this hobby to record the message, but not to write down the messenger's name, the date it was said, and so on. I have pushed hard to get the guide's editor to understand this. So has Adam. And yet the editor resists, because we're the only ones complaining, and because what we're suggesting takes more work. We seem to be out of step with everyone else, and we're the minority. We were successful in getting the guide's editor to promise to upgrade his system of crediting his authors, but we have no control beyond that. Ideally, we'd love to see a system that people could use to not only know who helped, but how much they helped, and when they helped. This way, if an author does a huge amount of work, then leaves the hobby, you can see that whoever took over that section, was only standing on someone else's shoulders, and adding to their work. That is only fair. That is only right. But right now, that sort of thing simply does not happen, in most Internet-based game research. Where I was unsuccessful in convincing Digital Press of the wisdom of all this, relates to comments that I made throughout my sections. The editor feels that if a person is credited once, somewhere in the guide, that they should not be named in regards to proving or disproving some tiny bit of information I am talking about, in a game entry. I have been told that he is going to edit things like that out, to have a more generalized "we think" type of commentary. I think this is just flat wrong. I totally disagree with this. But it is not my book, and he is in charge, so if he changes what I wrote, I am not going to make a fuss about it. I have the right to publish things independently of the guide, and I'll attribute things there. I am not 100% happy with the situation, right now. Due to a minor error on Joe Santulli's part, when the former author of the Arcadia section turned that section over to me, his name was TOTALLY removed from the list of people who had helped make the guide what it was, at that point. I don't plan to write for the guide forever, simple due to the fact that I don't plan to make game research my life's work. At some point, I'll be moving on, too. Will my name be accidentally erased from the permanent record, due to sloppy attribution habits? I hope not. It should not. And yet, by today's standards, it could. I do not blame Joe Santulli, or any other member of the Digital Press staff. I just think they are all following the pattern set by early I'net researchers, which when looked at objectively, amounts to very sloppy and unprofessional research standards, if not outright plagiarism. I want credit for what I do. I want you guys to get the credits you've worked to get. It is only fair. But if we think it is fine to consider someone else's name unimportant, when we write down what they said, what right would any of us have to bitch about it, if they do it to us, accidentally or on purpose? And it also makes it easier to do serious research, if everyone can see what peices of the puzzle each person has, and so on. But the guide's editor doesn't want to admit to too many limitations, and wants people to think we / they "know it all". It is not true. I'm willing to admit to my humanity, and my limitations. I wish they were, because it would make life *SO* much easier for real research. Anyway, hopefully you get the idea. I'm just complaining, in general, that most of this hobby's so-called research is not "serious" enough. I fully agree with Adam's comments that we need to record both the message, and the name of who said it, when they said it, and so on. I don't think we can call what we do "proper research" until we do. I also realize that we're currently the only ones that feel this way, so I have to be willing to make compromises... go along to get along. -- Ward Shrake -- 461 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 7:05am Subject: RE: Looking for some Arcadia games mrhaboobi I can do you a tunix version of Space Attack i believe, Ive got a few tunix systems and games spare aswell if anyone is interested. -----Original Message-----From: stefanpiasecki [mailto:stefanpiasecki@aol.com]Sent: Monday, 13 May 2002 4:24 a.m.To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.comSubject: [arcadia2001consoles] Looking for some Arcadia gamesHi,I am looking for some quite common Arcadia (or other manufacturer's silver style) games:- Space Attack- Funky Fish (okay okay)- 3D Bowling- American Football (need the manual only)- Grandslam Tennis- JunglerDoes anybody have spare copies of these games and is willing to seel/trade them?ThanksStefanTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 462 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 9:52am Subject: On 2650 interrupts atrionfo Here is some information regarding 2650 interrupts that I found using the search engine at Google Groups. One of these days this may be useful, for now it's FYI (and future reference?) Adam ----------------------------- From: mzenier@... (Mark Zenier) Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design Subject: Re: Anyone had any signetics 2650 experience ? Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 21:12:48 GMT In article <9p9jf8$kqo$1@...>, 1198 wrote: > >Gary mounsey wrote in message >news:3bb80653$0$32426$afc38c87@.... >>Hello , >> I am trying to figure out what the reset vectors are for the >>2650... if there is such a thing... >I happened to hold an Osborne Microprocessor Handbook. > >According to that book, 2650 execute intruction from location zero upon >reset. And interrupts work by having the interrupt source provide a vector byte in the interrupt acknowledge cycle. What happens is that an interrupt stops normal execution and internally jams a ZBSR instruction and the next fetch cycle, (the vector), is the address field of that instruction. And then it gets ugly. The address byte is in the form I.a.a.a.a.a.a.a, where a is a 7 bit relative address, referenced to address 0. Negative values of "a" wrap around the 0 page boundry and end up relative to address 8192. So the effective address is in the range 0 to 63, or 8192-64 to 8192-1. Add to that, the I is an indirection bit, if that is set there is a two byte pointer/vector at the effective address that is then fetched as the ZBSR destination, otherwise it jumps to that location. Mark Zenier mzenier@... Washington State resident 463 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon May 13, 2002 11:39am Subject: Re: Pictures of weird items, and cool items slapdash26 At 7:35 AM +0000 5/12/02, stefanpiasecki wrote: >By the way, I also uploaded (German) reviews of the Hanimex console >and it shows a short-style Crazy Gobbler cart. My TVG cart is long- >style. Does anybody have a Hanimex version of the game? I don't have it, but my list gives the Hanimex version as a short cart, so I think that's normal?? At 5:32 PM +0000 5/12/02, commie_fan wrote: >I just now noticed that Yahoo! *SERIOUSLY* screws up high-res >pictures, on these boards. I uploaded some pics using the "large" >format button, to try to bypass their shrink-down process. It did not >work; they compressed the hell out of them, regardless. I think that's just for viewing without taking forever to load in case you have a slow connection, but once you click it... Otherwise, their "Buy Prints" function would be a huge bust. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 464 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon May 13, 2002 11:44am Subject: Re: I'm done, I'm done! Finally! I am "on strike"! slapdash26 Stefan Piasecki wrote: >I also received 5 MPT-03 carts from Australia some 2 weeks ago and >these carts also show at least 2 layers of labels. You can see that >there is a name underneath the upper label, but I didn't care too >much as I didn't want to remove the first one and I thought that >maybe the guys who put the labels on the cart put it on in the wrong >direction so that they had to relabel it (because at least one label >was placed wrong). >I'll have a closer look. Just FYI... On mine, the outer label ("MG") has the two words written vertically; the inner one ("VGC") has the words written horizontally; I might not have been able to make out "Alien" otherwise, but "Armada" is clear as day through the yellow. The "VGC-306" is likewise below the stuff on the outer label and so is easy to see through the yellow. Other than that, it looks like it has the same colored stripe, but I'm not sure, nor what color it is. It also looks to have the same little pic of the aliens, but perhaps a tiny bit smaller than on the outer label. And under "Video Game Cartridge MG-306" there might be something else, but I can't make that out. I did make a brief effort at pulling off the outer label, but I didn't want to force it, and I only got so far. I might try to take a hair- dryer to it at some point, but not today I think. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 465 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon May 13, 2002 0:24pm Subject: Re: Comments on Four Bandai pictures slapdash26 At 6:21 AM -0700 5/12/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: > Dr. Slump - Which game is this? I think it's an original, though I can't say for sure. > Now, what are these games? I believe they're ALL originals, but can't prove it. > Which one's are based on a TV series? Well, there are anime for all of them, but I think with Doraemon and Dr Slump the manga (comic strip or comic book) might have come first. > Russ, I hope your hard drive doesn't crash; do you keep backups of this? I have a backup, but not on CDR. At 4:17 PM +0000 5/12/02, stefanpiasecki wrote: >> Doraemon - It's just so CUTE. What does the suffix "mon" mean? Pokemon, >> Digimon, Doraemon: what's the relation? >The suffix "mon" stands for "monster(s)". Pokemon -> Pocket Monsters >Now collect them all ;)) This is correct, though I'm not sure it's meant the same way in Doraemon. At 4:18 PM +0000 5/12/02, stefanpiasecki wrote: >Russ, does Ward already have these games archived? Would you loan >them to him? I guess we all are dead-keen on having a look at them. Well, there's the kicker. I only have two of them myself, and a box for the third (if that ain't a damned kick in the teeth...). I just missed out on the other two a few months back, and I haven't been able to come up with others. Anyway, the plan is to send them to Ward, along with some other carts, for dumping, but I haven't had time to dig through my carts to find all the ones I want to send. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 466 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 1:22pm Subject: MESS Emulator Debug Mode? atrionfo Does anyone know if there is a version of MESS that has the Arcadia debug mode active. I just downloaded version 56.1 from the MESS site and pressing F5 doesn't start debug mode. I know MESS doesn't require an emulator to support this, but I'm quite interested in using it. Adam 467 From: "oboissea" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 7:59pm Subject: M1800 system oboissea Looking at the crapy pictures of the M1800 system, I can say that it has the same case design as the Intervision 2001 seen here: http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=8 or the ITMC MPT-05 seen here: http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=2&a=7 468 From: "oboissea" Date: Mon May 13, 2002 8:01pm Subject: Computer using a 2650 CPU oboissea I have this computer on my web site which uses Signetics 2650 CPU... http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=45 469 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue May 14, 2002 9:16am Subject: Earliest Aracadia newsgroup posting (1982?) atrionfo Here is a link to the earliest mention of the Emerson Arcadia that I can find: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=bnews.pyuxjj.366&output=gplain It's dated December 15, 1982, and, well, it's not positive. Adam 470 From: "joesantulli" Date: Tue May 14, 2002 9:28am Subject: Hi Fellas joesantulli Ward's done quite a job on the Arcadia section of the DP Guide, and I understand a lot of that is thanks to all of you here. I just wanted to stop in and say THANK YOU for your research. If I don't already have your name in the acknowledgments, please let me know so I don't miss it for this edition. Keep up the great work! PS Am I cleared to use photos from this group? 471 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue May 14, 2002 2:51pm Subject: Re: MESS Emulator Debug Mode? grumpfix Hello Adam, > Does anyone know if there is a version of MESS that has the Arcadia debug > mode active. I just downloaded version 56.1 from the MESS site and pressing > F5 doesn't start debug mode. I know MESS doesn't require an emulator to > support this, but I'm quite interested in using it. MAME CPU debugger support is a compile/build time decision. You have to uncomment DEBUG = 1 in your root makefile. MAME CPU debugger builds need more cpu power than non-debug builds. So normal builds have it disabled. Peter 472 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Tue May 14, 2002 2:45pm Subject: Re: Hi Fellas slapdash26 Joe Santulli wrote: >PS Am I cleared to use photos from this group? The Bandai Gundam one for sure; the others came from other sources, two of which I might be able to track down for permission, or I could rescan myself. Just let me know. I can't do better on the Macross pic, and I don't know how to reach the original scanner. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 473 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Tue May 14, 2002 2:58pm Subject: RE: Hi Fellas mrhaboobi I wondered if any of you knew about this site. http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/collect/others.htm -----Original Message-----From: Russ Perry Jr [mailto:slapdash@enteract.com]Sent: Tuesday, 14 May 2002 4:46 p.m.To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Hi FellasJoe Santulli wrote:>PS Am I cleared to use photos from this group?The Bandai Gundam one for sure; the others came from other sources, twoof which I might be able to track down for permission, or I could rescanmyself. Just let me know. I can't do better on the Macross pic, and Idon't know how to reach the original scanner.-- //*================================================================++|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 |||| 847-952-9729 slapdash@enteract.com VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! ||++================================================================*//To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 474 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Tue May 14, 2002 2:55pm Subject: RE: Hi Fellas slapdash26 Greg Cook wrote: > I wondered if any of you knew about this site. > http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/collect/others.htm Yeah, that's the Gundam & Macross I missed out on, supposedly by a couple days only. Fuck... :-( -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 475 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Tue May 14, 2002 3:16pm Subject: RE: Hi Fellas mrhaboobi ahh bugger, i saw those months ago.. but of course at that stage didnt have cash nor did i know about this group was it a collector on this group that got them? -----Original Message-----From: Russ Perry Jr [mailto:slapdash@enteract.com]Sent: Tuesday, 14 May 2002 4:56 p.m.To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.comSubject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Hi FellasGreg Cook wrote:> I wondered if any of you knew about this site.> http://www.goldenshop.com.hk/AI-trad/collect/others.htmYeah, that's the Gundam & Macross I missed out on, supposedlyby a couple days only. Fuck... :-(-- //*================================================================++|| Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 |||| 847-952-9729 slapdash@enteract.com VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! ||++================================================================*//To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 476 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Tue May 14, 2002 3:20pm Subject: RE: Hi Fellas slapdash26 Greg Cook wrote: > ahh bugger, i saw those months ago.. Heh, could be the shop-owner never did have them, or sold them years ago. :-) > but of course at that stage didnt have cash nor did i know about this group It didn't matter to me that I didn't have cash -- I'd pay off the credit eventually! That was too big to pass up. Sadly, I know where a couple more are, but the price is damaging, and I'm not sure I can get ahold of the guy. Assuming they're not already gone anyway... > was it a collector on this group that got them? If you're asking me, I have no idea. I asked on the DP list (in a thread where someone posted the Goldenshop URL about something else), though a little cryptically, and no one responded. Dunno. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 477 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue May 14, 2002 3:55pm Subject: Re: Hi Fellas commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Greg Cook" wrote: > ahh bugger, i saw those months ago.. but of course at that stage didnt have cash nor did i know about this group > > was it a collector on this group that got them? Just for the record, this group has only existed since April 4, 2002. -- Ward Shrake -- 478 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue May 14, 2002 11:08pm Subject: Re: MESS Emulator Debug Mode? atrionfo >> MAME CPU debugger support is a compile/build time decision. You have to uncomment DEBUG = 1 in your root makefile. >> I downloaded the core win32 source for MESS (version 56.1). I use Windows ME, and am following the directions on how to compile the source (which are written very well). I've installed the compiler MinGw, and uncommented the DEBUG =1. When I try to compile MESS I get this message: makefile.mes:145: src/core.mak: No such file or directory C:\MINGW\BIN\MAKE.EXE: *** No rule to make target `src/core.mak'. Stop. So, the file 'core.mak' is missing. I've checked all the downloaded source, and that file is NOT included with the source distribution. It IS included with the Mac distribtution, so I tried using that version (not figuring it would work, but just on a hunch)- well the compile started but then ran into other problems; at least I know I'm on the right track. Where do I get the win32 version of core.mak that is supposed to be in the mess/src directory? I did some searches on the net for places to ask for help, but everything I've found is MAME related or is about OLD versions of MESS. All I want is debug mode; the information you game me will give me what I want- now I just need the compile to work. Adam 479 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed May 15, 2002 1:54am Subject: Re: I'm done, I'm done! Finally! I am "on strike"! commie_fan My DPCG #7 guide section and preface have been removed from the temporary spot where they were at, and the two bookmarks erased, as promised before. This is because the guide's editor has acknowledged receiving the info, and he just told me yesterday that he has now integrated it into the rest of the guide. It was only up there for proof-reading purposes, and that has already been accomplished. Whatever was in there is now final, for "Digital Press Collectors Guide" version seven. See the Digital Press web site, via the bookmark section, if you want to find out more about the book. It is due out in August 2002, if I'm not mistaken. I have no connection to it other than writing for it; all orders go through the DP web site. Some of the last few days of work on the guide is NOT yet reflected in my web site's cart lists. My computer is going to need to have its operating system reloaded, and so on, which I'm not in a hurry to do, so that may take awhile. Making the web site's lists match the latest info is on my eventual "to do" list, but I'm not in a huge hurry now. Personally, now that my work for the guide is finished, I'll be spending time working on some of my multicarts, relatively soonish. I need the income they'll bring, and after six weeks of typing and staring at a computer screen, solder fumes will be rather welcome. -- Ward Shrake -- 480 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed May 15, 2002 2:04am Subject: Re: Japanese games commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > Russ, does Ward already have these > games archived? Would you loan > them to him? I guess we all are > dead-keen on having a look at them. > Pleeeaaaaaaasssseeeeeee > Stefan As Russ noted before, that has been in the works for later, with no set date. I had three recent sets of archiving loans going, including Russ' planned loans. The three carts from Retro Rene are done, and the two carts from Bill LaGrue are done, with only Russ' left to go. When he sends me his batch, we're not sure of the number, as some of them will end up being re-dumps to verify they are 100% byte matches. I don't know of anyone else willing to loan me stuff, after that one, with the possible exception of a "Devilman" cart loan (or two)? As you can see from my web site's archiving list, there really aren't too many unique carts left to archive, at this point? At some point, any new carts we are loaned will end up being truly new... ones we have never heard of. That and sorting out what is or is not a byte-for-byte match, and what is a slightly modified program, etc, etc. Some of the carts do sound like they might be something other than standard carts; like "Capture / Bowling" for instance. The big one that I'm dying to do would be to archive the rumored version of "Space Vultures" in its original form, which presumably includes the mothership stage. Keep your eyes open for such a version! -- Ward Shrake -- 481 From: Peter Trauner Date: Wed May 15, 2002 2:23am Subject: Re: MESS Emulator Debug Mode? grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: > MAME CPU debugger support is a compile/build time decision. > You have to uncomment > DEBUG = 1 > in your root makefile. > >> > > I downloaded the core win32 source for MESS (version 56.1). I use Windows > ME, and am following the directions on how to compile the source (which are > written very well). > > I've installed the compiler MinGw, and uncommented the DEBUG =1. When I try > to compile MESS I get this message: > > makefile.mes:145: src/core.mak: No such file or directory > C:\MINGW\BIN\MAKE.EXE: *** No rule to make target `src/core.mak'. Stop. Have you installed mame56 source before? > So, the file 'core.mak' is missing. I've checked all the downloaded source, > and that file is NOT included with the source distribution. It IS included > with the Mac distribtution, so I tried using that version (not figuring it > would work, but just on a hunch)- well the compile started but then ran into > other problems; at least I know I'm on the right track. Where do I get the > win32 version of core.mak that is supposed to be in the mess/src directory? > > I did some searches on the net for places to ask for help, but everything > I've found is MAME related or is about OLD versions of MESS. All I want is > debug mode; the information you game me will give me what I want- now I just > need the compile to work. I have no experience doing win32/mingw builds. I left MAME/MESS mailinglists/developement this winter. For questions regarding actual MESS or Windows version I can't help. In such cases it will be best to ask in the mess messageboard at www.mess.org. Peter 482 From: "RodansRaiders" Date: Wed May 15, 2002 5:00am Subject: Re: Favorite Arcadia Games RodansRaiders --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "oboissea" wrote: > I can't really list my to 5 games... as I don't have a lot of carts. > But one thing I can say: the playing feeling in the emulator is quite > different from the real thing. > > Auto Race, for example, is REALLY playable and enjoyable on the real > system. A really excellent TWO PLAYERS game. This would be for sure > my number 1 game. I tried it on the emulator, and it's much harder > (too fast? different sensations...) Hi my name Tim here is my favorties carts: 3-D Bowling, Cat Trax, Funky Fish, Hobo, Jump Bug, Pleiades, R2D Tank, Red Clash, Route 16, Spiders, Star Chess, Tank A Lot, The End and Turtles/Turpin. Thank for looking. Tim Thomas Diehard Arcadia 2001/Clone Collector Since 1996 483 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed May 15, 2002 11:25pm Subject: 'Space Vultures' Mothership and Exploration atrionfo "Space Vultures" Mothership and ROM Exploration I have taken a careful look at the Space Vultures mothership screenshot from the catalog, and it MAY be faked, but it was done with care- it's more than just MEANT to look real because it certainly uses the Arcadia's built-in character set. I've always agreed with Ward that the mothership stage was finished, but I'm even more convinced now. Last night I went through with graph paper and looked at the picture and then plotted out, by hand, what the mothership should look like if it were drawn on the Arcadia screen using the character graphics (NOT additional redefined graphics). Here's what I discovered (it's nothing earth shaking- it's just interesting): 1) The mothership doesn't need to use any re-defined characters. 2) The mothership uses legal Arcadia colors: White, Purple, Light Blue, and Black. 3) The mothership is 15 bytes wide by 11 bytes high (in other words, it uses a BIG chunk of the screen- like any good mothership should). From this I infer that the mothership (like many Arcadia game graphics) was stagnant- it didn't move at all. There are only four objects that move at the same time in 'Space Vultures:' 1) the players ship, 2) bad-guy one 3) bad guy two and 4) a missile (several missiles can be on the screen at once- this helps explain the flicker, though I'm not sure how this would have been done- the missile does move smoothly, it just flickers). The mothership requires, at minimum, 91 bytes of storage. However, that would require careful coding to get the ship onto the screen. The extra code to get the ship on the screen probably would make the task of saving bytes not worth it, so I presume that 176 bytes were used instead (11 lines down x 16 bytes across - 176 bytes of storage). This would allow the ship to be drawn to the screen with a simple loop moving one byte after the other, it would mean that the stars in the 'background' would be 'part' of the ship, but it wouldn't matter. I also investigated the ROM to see if the mothership is still in the code (but just isn't used); I could not find it (that doesn't mean it isn't there). I did find some graphics: Player's Ship: $0BDA-$0BE1 Bad-Guy 1 (Static): $0BF2-$0BF9 Bad-Guy 2: $0CFA-$0C01 Left Wing (Bad-Guy 2): $0C02-$0C09 Right Wing (Bad-Guy 2): $0C0A-$0C11 Any Comments? Adam 484 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed May 15, 2002 11:44pm Subject: Re: MESS Emulator Debug Mode? atrionfo >> Have you installed mame56 source before? >> That did the trick; the MESS source compiled fine once the MAME source was installed. Thanks. I posted a message to the MESS board and got the same response, that's encouraging (that I got feedback). The docs that explain how to compile the MESS source don't mention that the MAME source is needed (I suppose the author figures that if you're compiling the source for MESS that you have previous MAME experience). I still can't get the MESS debugger to work. I did make sure that "DEBUG =1" is NOT commented out in makefile.mes before the compile. After the compile, I changed the INI file (once I realized that I had to make one first). The docs say to change 'debug = no' to 'debug = yes-' but the INI files only has 'debug = 0.' I changed it to 'debug = 1' (hoping for the same affect). When I try pressing the '~' key I am optioned to change the sound volume; that's it. The F5 key says that it toggles debug mode, but it still has no affect. I have tried changing some other options in the INI file, and they do work, so I KNOW the file is being read. Any ideas? I'm going to post this message to the MESS board, but it's a good idea to keep the message Arcadia group informed of what's going on in case anyone is interested in doing this now or in the future (for programming purposes). The debug should be a useful feature if it does what I expect- which is to allow me to look at memory areas while the program is running. Adam 485 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu May 16, 2002 2:33am Subject: Re: MESS Emulator Debug Mode? atrionfo I am now able to use the MESS debug mode. As far as I can tell I have to use the command line version (and not the Windows version). When the compile is complete (and after the INI file is changed), I can use the program, like this: messd arcadia -cart vulture.bin This brings me right into the debugger. I haven't used it yet, but I did try it enough to know that it works. Woo hoo! There's gonna be a learning curve on this one... Adam 486 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu May 16, 2002 6:01pm Subject: Atari 2600 Cat Trax NTSC to PAL Conversion atrionfo Atariage.com reports that Cat Trax has just been converted from NTSC to PAL. I've no experience with this title VCS myself, but it's of interest to the group (being a UA Limited title). For more info on the conversion, and to download it, visit this link: http://www.atariage.com/software_conversions.html Adam 487 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu May 16, 2002 7:54pm Subject: Re: Atari 2600 Cat Trax NTSC to PAL Conversion stefanpiasecki Now that's cool info. And they have Star Wars: Ewok Adventure for download as well........ Stefan 488 From: "ventrra" Date: Fri May 17, 2002 1:55am Subject: Added some scans from the Signetics Data Manual ventrra I've uploaded 5 pages from the 1977 Signetics Bipolar/MOS Microprocessor Data Manual that I have. 2650-1 (345K) and 2650-2 (343K) are the instruction set summary for the 2650/2650A-1 CPU. Type- 1 (389K), Type-2 (296K), and Type-3 (290K) are scans of what's labled "Intelligent Typewriter Controller" with diagrams. I think that this might be the the sort of thing that some of those companies were planning to release as part of their computer/keyboard package for the Emerson styled consoles (someone who understands more about this sort of thing will have to see them, I know little about it myself). Anyone know what else that I might look for in this that might be helpful in some way? Charles 489 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 17, 2002 8:06am Subject: Arcadia - Not Quite Eight Colors? atrionfo Arcadia - Not Quite Eight Colors? I have been reading over the Arcadia hardware documentation and making some very simple programs. I have to ask this simple question: can the Arcadia display eight different foreground colors at once? Yes, the Arcadia CAN display eight different colors at once if you count the sprites, but if you don't count them, then it is limited to five (including the background color). That's my theory, anyway; a theory that I hope is proved wrong. From a hardware standpoint (and the way that I noticed this), the foreground colors share the least significant bit (bit 0 of three bits). With this setup, the possible color combinations become: 1) Background color, black, red, green, and yellow 2) Background color, blue, magenta, cyan, and white The background and sprite colors are set independently, so it IS possible to have ALL eight colors at once- but that still limits the colors variations by quite a bit (cuts them about in half, actually). I thought I could just look through a couple of cartridges and find some games that break rule one or rule two. Using the emulator I checked about fifteen ROMs, and NONE of them break the rule. They seem to follow this idea, which gives it some credit, but hardly proves it to be true. Can anyone prove this wrong? CAN an Arcadia game use more than four different foreground colors at once? Seeing as how the foreground colors are setup, I'm not sure how this would be done- but the hardware documentation is hardly complete. Please point me to some games that break rule one or two- I'm quite interested in seeing more than five colors on the screen at once (remember, don't include moving objects (sprites) in a color count). For those of you that wonder why it's THESE specific combination of colors that must be together, here's the explanation. The Arcadia uses three bits to hold the foreground color: three bits can hold 8 different colors, but since the last bit is shared, this essentially eliminates one bit, so only four combinations are possible. Let's look at this a little closer. The eight colors that can be displayed are: Color Bit Color Number Representation ------- ------ -------------- White 0 000 Yellow 1 001 Cyan 2 010 Green 3 011 Magenta 4 100 Red 5 101 Blue 6 110 Black 7 111 The first two bits of each color can be stored with the screen byte, but the least significant bit stored in the Arcadia's memory (bit three at $19f9) is shared. In other words, the colors that end with zero can be on the screen at the same time, and the colors that end with a one can be on the screen at the same time- but never can the colors that end with zero and the colors that end with one be on the screen at the same time. Wheh! Got that? The only way that I can see more foreground colors being displayed would be some kind of interrupt trick (but I don't think the Arcadia answers interrupts). Please take a look through your games and see if you can find any that break this four-color rule. I'll smile, widely, if anyone can prove me wrong. And, PeT, you can probably proved me wring in an instant (please, do!). Adam 490 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri May 17, 2002 5:14pm Subject: Re: Arcadia - Not Quite Eight Colors? stefanpiasecki Have you tried Jungler? This is pretty different from many other games as far as colours are concerned. Stefan 491 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun May 19, 2002 8:29pm Subject: Phoenix Mothership ROM atrionfo I've made a ROM that has a static picture of the Phoenix mother ship that I based on the catalog picture in the photo section of the discussion group. The ROM runs under the MESS emulator. I've already burned the ROM image to an EPROM and inserted it onto a modified cart that Ward made for me (thanks Ward!); as soon as my Arcadia gets here (I finally bought one on ebay) I will test it on the real hardware. I want to thank PeT for helping me figure out why my source code wasn't using the 26 charline mode- I just had to change one bit, imagine that! When I've confirmed that the program runs okay on the real hardware I'm going to post the source code- it doesn't have any animation, but it's much more involved than the 'hello' or 'sprite' source that I've put together so far; it's sure to teach any interested person a little bit. The next logical step to this source is to add animation and player control. I'm going to be stepping back into my Astrocade garb this week in preparation for a computer show this coming weekend, so Arcadia 'stuff' is on hold. Anyone living in the Ohio area is encouraged to go to the Classic Computer and Gaming Show (http://www.ccagshow.com/); that's where I'll be. I did post an extended response to the 'Jungler' question (that is, does it show more than four foreground colors at the same time). I posted the message yesterday morning but it still hasn't showed up. From experience on the Astrocade group, I know that sometimes messages get 'lost' and then suddenly 'pop up' after a couple days (sometimes taking as long as four days to appear). If my post doesn't appear in a couple of days I'll post it again (I kept a copy in my sent box). Adam 492 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon May 20, 2002 9:03am Subject: Character Screen Map and Character Set atrionfo Arcadia 2001 Character Screen Map and Character Set I have created a character screen map and a table that shows the Arcadia's built-in character set. It's a 23k pdf file called "arcadia_screen-char_map.PDF." It is stored in the discussion group's file section, under the "programming" folder. You will find the document very helpful when laying out a 26-char line Arcadia screen (like I did with the 'Phoenix' ship program). The character-set table is also a nice feature. When you take a look at this document you will understand why some of the Arcadia games are laid out the way that they are. It all starts to fall into place once you get an overview of the way the screen is set-up. Hopefully I'm not the only one who ever finds a use for this... Adam 493 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon May 20, 2002 9:14am Subject: Re: Added some scans from the Signetics Data Manual atrionfo >> I've uploaded 5 pages from the 1977 Signetics Bipolar/MOS Microprocessor Data Manual that I have. >> Please post these files in the file section, because when they are stored in the photo section they are reduced in quality by the Yahoo service (I'm having a hard time reading them). Also, a 300 DPI black and white 8 1/2" x 11" TIFF that uses lzw compression should never be more than 100K. >> Anyone know what else that I might look for in this that might be helpful in some way? >> No sure yet. One of these days one of us will get the right Signetics data manual with exactly what we are looking for, that is a big sign with an arrow that says, "How to Make an Emerson Arcadia 2001 for Dummies!," and another sign that says, "Complete 2636 and 2637 Chip Information for Idiots!." Thanks, Charles; good stuff- not that I understand it. Adam 494 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon May 20, 2002 9:03pm Subject: Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges grumpfix Hello, I am the author of several mess drivers (arcadia, supervision, lynx ...) I reversed engineered several cartridge pinouts (gamemaster, supervision, megaduck, palladium vcg, vc4000) I dumped several supervision, megaduck, gamemaster, vc4000 cartridges. The VC4000 cartridges are dumped now. We should advance to the other cartridge types. I currently have board pictures of *emerson arcadia 2001 *mpt 03 *palladium video-computer-game (tv computer cassette), and the special dictionary cart *interton vc4000 (a simple one, and a complex one with ram) I have the pinouts for the *ormatu spelcomputer 2001 *acetronic mpu1000/mpu2000 but pictures would be great Any pictures of additional/unknown arcadia or vc4000 variant cartridge boards will be great. These pictures are needed to find out the cartridge pinout. Having the pinout allows building an adapter to read cartridges without opening them. They are also needed for building new (develope/test/multi)cartridges. Regards, Peter 495 From: "ventrra" Date: Tue May 21, 2002 5:30am Subject: Re: Added some scans from the Signetics Data Manual ventrra --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Please post these files in the file section, because when they are stored in > the photo section they are reduced in quality by the Yahoo service (I'm > having a hard time reading them). Also, a 300 DPI black and white 8 1/2" x > 11" TIFF that uses lzw compression should never be more than 100K. > Okay. I removed the ones in the photo section and dumped the files into the files section into a folder labled "Data Manual Pages". They are still big .jpg s, though. I don't have any programs on my computer that make lzw .tif s. (I tried converting to the .tif type that I can make, but the files jumped in size to 3-5MB x_x.) > >> > No sure yet. One of these days one of us will get the right Signetics data > manual with exactly what we are looking for, that is a big sign with an > arrow that says, "How to Make an Emerson Arcadia 2001 for Dummies!," and > another sign that says, "Complete 2636 and 2637 Chip Information for > Idiots!." I'm beginning to suspect that what we're looking for is likely to be a pamphlet or booklet of some kind rather than a book. Although, books with the titles that you listed WOULD be incredibly useful :). > > Thanks, Charles; good stuff- not that I understand it. Your welcome. There may be a few other things in here that might prove interesting, too. Charles 496 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 17, 2002 9:10pm Subject: Re: Arcadia - Not Quite Eight Colors? atrionfo Stefan wrote >> Have you tried Jungler? This is pretty different from many other games as far as colours are concerned. >> I tried 'Jungler' in the emulator (that's how I'm trying all the games I'm testing); 'Jungler' follows the 'four-color' rule too (in this case it follows rule #1). Here's a breakdown of the 'Jungler' color setup (on the first screen- I didn't play further than this): Background Color: Cyan Foreground Colors : Black, red, green, yellow Computer Sprite: Magenta Player Sprite: White Only the four foreground colors that share the least significant bit 'one' are used in this game. I didn't see any use of blue at all; so that's seven colors, all of which follow my original hypothesis that only four foreground colors can be used. Notice that the games make clever use of the pallet, so the four-color foreground limit may not be readily apparent. Any other suggestions for a game that might break the 'rules?' Adam 497 From: "slydc" Date: Tue May 21, 2002 3:34pm Subject: Re: Looking for some Arcadia games slydc Woah!! Only two weeks i haven't been here and there's too much postings!! But i don't think anyone will argue or debate on this matter....not me anyway! :) Stefan, I do have some stuff to trade or sell, take a look: Arcadia 2001 & Clones stuff: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- # Leisure-Vision: (x4) Space Attack 5$ ea # Leisure-Vision: Baseball 5$ # Leisure-Vision: Crazy Gobbler 25$ # Leisure-Vision: Red Clash 30$ # Leisure-Vision: Grand Slam Tennis 20$ # Leisure-Vision: American Football (cart/box/manual) 25$ # Leisure-Vision: Baseball (COMPLETE) 10$ # Leisure-Vision: Soccer (cat/box/manual) 15$ # Leisure-Vision: Star Chess (COMPLETE) 20$ # Hanimex: Cat Trax 05$ # Schmid: Red Clash 30$ # Polybrain: Mathematic and Logic (cart/box/overlays) 40$ # Polybrain: Video Chess (cart/box/overlays) 40$ # Polybrain: Soccer (COMPLETE) 40$ # Palladium: Basketball 10$ # MPT-03: Basketball 15$ # MPT-03: Break Away 15$ # MPT-03: Alien Invader 15$ # MPT-03: Basketball (COMPLETE) 30$ # MPT-03: Alien Invader(cart/box) 20$ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- + MPT-03: Missile War (COMPLETE) matt + MPT-03: Space Mission (COMPLETE) matt + MPT-03: Bowling (COMPLETE) matt ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Let me know if there's anything that's interest you (beside the ones indicated Matt). Oh and don't let the prices throw you off, it's only for the ones who's bugging me with that eternal question "How much are you asking for?". So this way, they don't bug me and i keep the stuff for trade instead! Heh, heh, heh.... --- Sly DC --- 498 From: "slydc" Date: Tue May 21, 2002 3:58pm Subject: Re: Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges slydc Hi Peter, Great seeing you hang around here. Sorry if i didn't replied to your e-mail yet, been quite busy since the PhillyClassic. Anyway, as usual, just let me know if you ever need anything else like carts to be dumped or whatever. You've done an excellent job so far and i know you will still do it (same as everyone here too!). --- Sly DC --- 499 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue May 21, 2002 8:18pm Subject: Re: Re: Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges grumpfix Hello Sylvain, > Hi Peter, > > Great seeing you hang around here.Sorry if i didn't replied > to your e-mail yet, been quite busy since the PhillyClassic. > Anyway, as usual, just let me know if you ever need anything > else like carts to be dumped or whatever. Thanks for your offer. Do you have some interested stuff which I may lend: new supervision, gamemaster, megaduck cartridges, studio2 (pinout available, should be doable without opening one cartridge), acetronic (pinout available, should be doable without opening one cartridge), other vc4000/2636 consoles (opening of 1 cartridge needed), channelf (opening of 1 cartridge needed), creativision (opening 1 cartridge needed), or something which you want to get dumped and I can do for you? > You've done an excellent job so far and i know you will still > do it (same as everyone here too!). Thanks, Peter 500 From: "slydc" Date: Wed May 22, 2002 6:37am Subject: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges slydc Hi Peter, Humm...let me think. For the Supervision, all the carts i have are already dumped, same as Game Master. Mega Duck...i'll check. For the Studio 2, i'll check what is dupmed and not. For the Acetronic/Interton (and family), i don't have much carts. If anyone here like Dieter, you can trust Peter, i vouch for him and the same goes for Ward. For the Channel F, i'll check what is dumped. And finally, for the Creativision, there's someone doing a emulator and i think he's got all the games dumped. I don't remember what is the URL of his web page, anyone does ? As for the rest, i'll get back on you and thanks very much for the offer! Everyone will benefit if we all cooperate. Keep up the great work. --- Sly DC --- 501 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed May 22, 2002 6:58pm Subject: Re: Arcadia - Not Quite Eight Colors? stefanpiasecki Okay, another try. What about Astro Invader? On the side of the screen it shows all the colours it actually displays. Stefan 502 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu May 23, 2002 4:52am Subject: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges commie_fan Just for the record, I know nothing about the Supervision or the Mega Duck or the Creativision consoles, except that they apparently exist. I've never even seen them, so Ward is not a good source of info on any of those. He is not a person that can help dump those carts. Sorry. If Peter is willing to do them, he'd be a much better contact. On the RCA Studio II, check with Paul Robson, to see what has or has not been dumped. I think he is keeping up on that, or was the last time I talked to him. (But then again, I thought Studio II carts were not really ROM-based? Weren't they just jumper boards, that changed the wiring around inside the console?) In any case, this is also not my department; you'll have to check with other people for the RCA. The Fairchild Channel F is Frank Palazolo's department, but he is very busy with his family and so on. Don't count on speedy service, but he did start on the MESS emulator years ago, and knows how to dump those carts. (And no, it is not as "easy" as other systems.) Acetronic / Interton VC-4000 stuff is on-topic for these message boards, but after much thought, I am afraid I already have too much on my plate, to get involved with those systems. As I understand them, they are PAL-only consoles, and I live in NTSC-land, so even if I had one of those consoles, it would not do me any good. I could not use it. (And yes, I know there are TV-card workarounds... I'm too poor to deal with all that. Rent and bills are enough of a burden, and things like "disposable income" are something I dimly remember.) Dieter and others are doing these consoles. I am not really involved. So in summary, Ward does NOT plan to branch out any further. I am doing or have done significant work on the Commodore VIC-20 cart library, along with helping on the Bally Astrocade, and doing lots of stuff related to the Arcadia 2001. That's enough... that's more than enough! If you guys want to get involved with other stuff, more power to you, but you will have to do it on your own. I have far too many things pulling on me, and far too few resources to deal with what is already on my plate. I have to limit things, or burn out completely. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "slydc" wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > Humm...let me think. For the Supervision, all the carts i have are > already dumped, same as Game Master. Mega Duck...i'll check. For the > Studio 2, i'll check what is dupmed and not. For the > Acetronic/Interton (and family), i don't have much carts. > > If anyone here like Dieter, you can trust Peter, i vouch for him and > the same goes for Ward. > > For the Channel F, i'll check what is dumped. And finally, for the > Creativision, there's someone doing a emulator and i think he's got > all the games dumped. I don't remember what is the URL of his web > page, anyone does ? > > As for the rest, i'll get back on you and thanks very much for the > offer! Everyone will benefit if we all cooperate. Keep up the great > work. > > --- Sly DC --- 503 From: slapdash Date: Thu May 23, 2002 9:30am Subject: Re: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges slapdash26 On Wed, 22 May 2002, commie_fan wrote: > Just for the record, I know nothing about the Supervision or the Mega > Duck or the Creativision consoles, except that they apparently exist. Actually, to be specific, the SV and MD are handhelds. The MD is supposedly closely based on the Gameboy. > On the RCA Studio II, check with Paul Robson, to see what has or has > not been dumped. I think he is keeping up on that, or was the last > time I talked to him. (But then again, I thought Studio II carts were > not really ROM-based? Weren't they just jumper boards, that changed > the wiring around inside the console?) No, these do have ROMs on them. In fact, I have a simple board and a bunch of ROMs as well as a couple EPROMs that I picked up from a guy who got them from RCA "at the end". He was using the system to teach kids assembly programming. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 504 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu May 23, 2002 11:59am Subject: Re: Arcadia - Not Quite Eight Colors? atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> Okay, another try. What about Astro Invader? On the side of the screen it shows all the colours it actually displays. >> I'm using the MESS emulator 56.1 (so maybe the display is different?), but it doesn't use "all" the colors, it uses FOUR: blue, magenta, cyan, and white- that's color-combination "rule" two. The sprites use other colors (the player's ship is red), and the background changes from black to green, and the ground seems to be yellow (but is flickering- is this right?), but there sure aren't more colors on the emulator. Any other suggestions? Adam 505 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu May 23, 2002 5:27pm Subject: Re: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 andrelated Cartridges grumpfix slapdash wrote: > > On Wed, 22 May 2002, commie_fan wrote: > > Just for the record, I know nothing about the Supervision or the Mega > > Duck or the Creativision consoles, except that they apparently exist. > > Actually, to be specific, the SV and MD are handhelds. The MD is > supposedly closely based on the Gameboy. The io-registers of the megaduck are a little bit different as in the gameboy. And it doesn't have an internal rom. MESS didn't want? the small and tested gameboy/cpu modifications to support it. > > On the RCA Studio II, check with Paul Robson, to see what has or has > > not been dumped. I think he is keeping up on that, or was the last > > time I talked to him. (But then again, I thought Studio II carts were > > not really ROM-based? Weren't they just jumper boards, that changed > > the wiring around inside the console?) > > No, these do have ROMs on them. In fact, I have a simple board and > a bunch of ROMs as well as a couple EPROMs that I picked up from a > guy who got them from RCA "at the end". He was using the system to > teach kids assembly programming. Any chance to read them in? Peter 506 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu May 23, 2002 5:38pm Subject: Re: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges grumpfix Hello Ward, I apologize for abusing this Arcadia/VC4000 mailinglist. > On the RCA Studio II, check with Paul Robson, to see what has or has > not been dumped. I think he is keeping up on that, or was the last > time I talked to him. (But then again, I thought Studio II carts were > not really ROM-based? Weren't they just jumper boards, that changed > the wiring around inside the console?) In any case, this is also not > my department; you'll have to check with other people for the RCA. Paul hasn't responded to me several times. Contrary to him I have the connector to wire an adapter for easy and quick reading of the cartridges. The odyssey is the discrete console with "jumpers" as cartridges. > The Fairchild Channel F is Frank Palazolo's department, but he is > very busy with his family and so on. Don't count on speedy service, > but he did start on the MESS emulator years ago, and knows how to > dump those carts. (And no, it is not as "easy" as other systems.) To be honest, I haven't asked him. On the other side there has always been a MESS ftp server to allow the other developers testing all drivers. > So in summary, Ward does NOT plan to branch out any further. I am > doing or have done significant work on the Commodore VIC-20 cart > library, along with helping on the Bally Astrocade, and doing lots of > stuff related to the Arcadia 2001. That's enough... that's more than > enough! If you guys want to get involved with other stuff, more power > to you, but you will have to do it on your own. I have far too many > things pulling on me, and far too few resources to deal with what is > already on my plate. I have to limit things, or burn out completely. Cartridge dumping is not so much work (cassette digitizing is). It is much more annoying to stop emulator developement because you can't get software for it. And when there are rom images, board scans, ... then somebody will develope an emulator for it. Peter 507 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu May 23, 2002 5:40pm Subject: Re: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges grumpfix Hello Ward, I apologize for abusing this Arcadia/VC4000 mailinglist. > On the RCA Studio II, check with Paul Robson, to see what has or has > not been dumped. I think he is keeping up on that, or was the last > time I talked to him. (But then again, I thought Studio II carts were > not really ROM-based? Weren't they just jumper boards, that changed > the wiring around inside the console?) In any case, this is also not > my department; you'll have to check with other people for the RCA. Paul hasn't responded to me several times. Contrary to him I have the connector to wire an adapter for easy and quick reading of the cartridges. The odyssey is the discrete console with "jumpers" as cartridges. > The Fairchild Channel F is Frank Palazolo's department, but he is > very busy with his family and so on. Don't count on speedy service, > but he did start on the MESS emulator years ago, and knows how to > dump those carts. (And no, it is not as "easy" as other systems.) To be honest, I haven't asked him. On the other side there has always been a MESS ftp server to allow the other developers testing all drivers. > So in summary, Ward does NOT plan to branch out any further. I am > doing or have done significant work on the Commodore VIC-20 cart > library, along with helping on the Bally Astrocade, and doing lots of > stuff related to the Arcadia 2001. That's enough... that's more than > enough! If you guys want to get involved with other stuff, more power > to you, but you will have to do it on your own. I have far too many > things pulling on me, and far too few resources to deal with what is > already on my plate. I have to limit things, or burn out completely. Cartridge dumping is not so much work (cassette digitizing is). It is much more annoying to stop emulator developement because you can't get software for it. And when there are rom images, board scans, ... then somebody will develope an emulator for it. Peter 508 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu May 23, 2002 5:40pm Subject: Re: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 andrelated Cartridges grumpfix slapdash wrote: > > On Wed, 22 May 2002, commie_fan wrote: > > Just for the record, I know nothing about the Supervision or the Mega > > Duck or the Creativision consoles, except that they apparently exist. > > Actually, to be specific, the SV and MD are handhelds. The MD is > supposedly closely based on the Gameboy. The io-registers of the megaduck are a little bit different as in the gameboy. And it doesn't have an internal rom. MESS didn't want? the small and tested gameboy/cpu modifications to support it. > > On the RCA Studio II, check with Paul Robson, to see what has or has > > not been dumped. I think he is keeping up on that, or was the last > > time I talked to him. (But then again, I thought Studio II carts were > > not really ROM-based? Weren't they just jumper boards, that changed > > the wiring around inside the console?) > > No, these do have ROMs on them. In fact, I have a simple board and > a bunch of ROMs as well as a couple EPROMs that I picked up from a > guy who got them from RCA "at the end". He was using the system to > teach kids assembly programming. Any chance to read them in? Peter 509 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu May 23, 2002 5:42pm Subject: TVG games on Ebay stefanpiasecki Cheers, there are currently some TVG-games up for auction on ebay. Here are the links: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1354821578 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1354823084 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1354824545 http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1354825098 I know the seller. He is a good guy, so bid with confidence. Stefan 510 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Thu May 23, 2002 10:24pm Subject: Re: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 and related tempest_2084 If someone needs RCA Studio II carts, I'd be happy to loan mine out to be dumped. I have a complete collection except for Bingo, Tester 1, and the Demo Cart. I also don't have the homemade programming cart I recently learned about through the RCA Studio II newsletter (betcha didn't know they had one did ya?). I like to find the instructions on how to make one, but I think I'm missing that part. :( Tempest > > Hello Ward, > > I apologize for abusing this Arcadia/VC4000 mailinglist. > > > On the RCA Studio II, check with Paul Robson, to see what has or has > > not been dumped. I think he is keeping up on that, or was the last > > time I talked to him. (But then again, I thought Studio II carts were > > not really ROM-based? Weren't they just jumper boards, that changed > > the wiring around inside the console?) In any case, this is also not > > my department; you'll have to check with other people for the RCA. > > Paul hasn't responded to me several times. > Contrary to him I have the connector to wire an adapter for easy and > quick > reading of the cartridges. > > The odyssey is the discrete console with "jumpers" as cartridges. > > > The Fairchild Channel F is Frank Palazolo's department, but he is > > very busy with his family and so on. Don't count on speedy service, > > but he did start on the MESS emulator years ago, and knows how to > > dump those carts. (And no, it is not as "easy" as other systems.) > > To be honest, I haven't asked him. > On the other side there has always been a MESS ftp server to allow > the other developers testing all drivers. > > > So in summary, Ward does NOT plan to branch out any further. I am > > doing or have done significant work on the Commodore VIC-20 cart > > library, along with helping on the Bally Astrocade, and doing lots of > > stuff related to the Arcadia 2001. That's enough... that's more than > > enough! If you guys want to get involved with other stuff, more power > > to you, but you will have to do it on your own. I have far too many > > things pulling on me, and far too few resources to deal with what is > > already on my plate. I have to limit things, or burn out completely. > > Cartridge dumping is not so much work (cassette digitizing is). > > It is much more annoying to stop emulator developement > because you can't get software for it. > > And when there are rom images, board scans, ... > then somebody will develope an emulator for it. > > Peter > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert reicher6@... Http://www.msu.edu/~reicher6/ Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 511 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 24, 2002 1:47am Subject: Space Vultures (6K-8K accessed) atrionfo I did a partial disassembly of the available "Space Vultures," and there are six places in the code where references to ROM areas between 6K and 8K are made. This code must never be executed, otherwise, (I imagine) the game would crash. If anyone would like to take a deeper look into this I can forward what I've found already. Has this version of "Space Vultures" (currently being auctioned on ebay) been dumped? (maybe it has the extra 2K.) http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1354824545 Adam 512 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 24, 2002 1:59am Subject: Scanning B&W pictures as TIFFs atrionfo From the thread "Re: Added some scans from the Signetics Data Manual": >> Okay. I removed the ones in the photo section and dumped the files into the files section into a folder labled "Data Manual Pages". They are still big .jpg s, though. I don't have any programs on my computer that make lzw .tif s. (I tried converting to the .tif type that I can make, but the files jumped in size to 3-5MB x_x.) >> Books that are B&W should be scanned in as "line art," then the files should be saved as a TIFF (you don't need to use lzw compression if you don't have it, you can just zip the file). When you save a file as jpg is loses quality, but when you save a file as TIFF, it doesn't lose quality. The U.S. patent office requires all documents that they save to be 300 dpi TIFF files; they are able to get some of their pages down to 20K or so (pretty small). You won't get the same compression ratio (I'm not sure HOW they get files that small, even using lzw), but you can come pretty close, depending on how much of the page is black and white, and how good the original scan is. If your .tif file size jumped to 3-5MB, then they were being scanned in color (or at higher than 300dpi)- you will never have a 300 DPI, B&W, 8 1/2" x 11" page be more than 1MB, not EVER (that's the maximum size without compression). Some people prefer to use GIF over TIFF files, but, in the long run, you get much better performance out of TIFF. What graphic programs do you have access to? Adam 513 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri May 24, 2002 7:00am Subject: Re: Space Vultures (6K-8K accessed) stefanpiasecki > Has this version of "Space Vultures" (currently being auctioned on ebay) > been dumped? (maybe it has the extra 2K.) > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1354824545 > > Adam I know this guy and he told me that he also only has two levels. Stefan 514 From: "ventrra" Date: Fri May 24, 2002 8:44am Subject: Re: Scanning B&W pictures as TIFFs ventrra *Snip* > If your .tif file size jumped to 3-5MB, then they were being scanned in > color (or at higher than 300dpi)- you will never have a 300 DPI, B&W, 8 1/2" > x 11" page be more than 1MB, not EVER (that's the maximum size without > compression). Some people prefer to use GIF over TIFF files, but, in the > long run, you get much better performance out of TIFF. > > What graphic programs do you have access to? > > Adam Windows Paint, ACDSee 32, and Paintshop Pro 7. (I understand the least about the last one. I just put it on here a few days ago. Charles 515 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri May 24, 2002 3:13pm Subject: Re: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000 andrelated Cartridges slapdash26 At 9:27 AM +0200 5/23/02, Peter Trauner wrote: >slapdash wrote: >> On Wed, 22 May 2002, commie_fan wrote: >> > On the RCA Studio II, check with Paul Robson, to see what has or has >> > not been dumped. I think he is keeping up on that, or was the last >> > time I talked to him. (But then again, I thought Studio II carts were >> > not really ROM-based? Weren't they just jumper boards, that changed >> > the wiring around inside the console?) >> No, these do have ROMs on them. In fact, I have a simple board and >> a bunch of ROMs as well as a couple EPROMs that I picked up from a >> guy who got them from RCA "at the end". He was using the system to >> teach kids assembly programming. >Any chance to read them in? Possibly. Where are you located? I'm sometimes a bit timid about mailing stuff, but I may have a couple other alternatives too. BTW, most of the ROMs are just the same as released games (I think), but the EPROMs may have some surprises... At 8:24 AM -0400 5/23/02, Matthew Robert Reichert wrote: >If someone needs RCA Studio II carts, I'd be happy to loan mine out to >be dumped. I have a complete collection except for Bingo, Tester 1, >and the Demo Cart. Actually, the Tester cart may not have chips... It was unclear exactly how it worked, but it sounded like it could be full of analog crap instead. Dunno. >I also don't have the homemade programming cart I recently learned about >through the RCA Studio II newsletter (betcha didn't know they had one did >ya?). Nope. So where are the scans? > I like to find the instructions on how to make one, but I think I'm missing >that part. :( Is it actually anything very involved, or just a board to pop EPROMs onto? Can you tell from what you do have? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 516 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri May 24, 2002 3:45pm Subject: Re: Re: Post 500!! + Request: VC4000andrelated Cartridges grumpfix Russ Perry Jr wrote: > > At 9:27 AM +0200 5/23/02, Peter Trauner wrote: > >slapdash wrote: > >> No, these do have ROMs on them. In fact, I have a simple board and > >> a bunch of ROMs as well as a couple EPROMs that I picked up from a > >> guy who got them from RCA "at the end". He was using the system to > >> teach kids assembly programming. > > >Any chance to read them in? > > Possibly. Where are you located? I'm sometimes a bit timid about > mailing stuff, but I may have a couple other alternatives too. In Austria. I am able to build adapters and read most of such early rom/eprom chips. After 25 years some proms might have lost their content. Peter 517 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sat May 25, 2002 7:06pm Subject: TVG, Arcadia and MPT-03 games on Ebay stefanpiasecki Good morning, I have put some items from my collection up on ebay. Here is the link. If you have any questions, drop me a line. http://cgi6.ebay.de/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? MfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=steve-vx&include=0&since=- 1&sort=2&rows=25 Stefan (steve-vx) 518 From: "RodansRaiders" Date: Sun May 26, 2002 2:51am Subject: 2003 Video Game Convention RodansRaiders I have been approached by the owner of the American Legion Post in Winnebago, MN, to have a video game convention in July or August of 2003. They wont't charge for tables. Dealer, Collectors, and Public are welcome to play games, trade'em, buy'em, or sell'em. I forgot to say they have to know now for next year so they know how many tables to get. If you have any questions about anything or more info you can email me at konrad@... Thanks for reading, Tim Thomas 519 From: "kiwigame" Date: Mon May 27, 2002 11:35am Subject: Re: Request: VC4000 and related Cartridges kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > studio2 (pinout available, should be doable without opening one > cartridge), > acetronic (pinout available, should be doable without opening one > cartridge), > other vc4000/2636 consoles (opening of 1 cartridge needed), > channelf (opening of 1 cartridge needed), > creativision (opening 1 cartridge needed), > or something which you want to get dumped and I can do for you? I've now scanned some carts for Peter and in addition I'm making these available for a short time for anyone else who wants the images to download them as well. This way the info. is available to all who could benefit from it. http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/house/cartpcb1.jpg http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/house/cartpcb2.jpg BIG JPG Files - 500k, 300k They will only be up for a week or so as my webspace is FULL. Scans are of the PCBS (both sides): Fountain "Musical Games" Fountain "Golf" Radofin "CHESS" Voltmace "Leapfrog" CHESS is interesting as it has a radically different layout to this "families" (Acetronic/Radofin/Fountain etc) normal design. My guess is its a form of bankswitching? Can anyone confirm this? Thanks Mike 520 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue May 28, 2002 3:27am Subject: Re: 2003 Video Game Convention commie_fan While I appreciate your enthusiasm, Tim, I doubt you are going to have much luck with this idea on these message boards. Why? Because there are only 23 members here total, for one. Second, the majority of those members are NOT based inside the USA; they are from Germany, France, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, and just about everywhere else that is non-USA. Three, because there are well-established conventions such as CGE that already draw huge crowds from all over the world, and they are being held during those same basic months, which means your local efforts would be competing with global ones. You are much better off just saving up for a plane ticket to wherever they hold CGE in 2003, as most of the retro-gaming community will be there already. It makes far more sense for you to join that crowd, as the odds are not good that the crowds will go anywhere besides CGE, PhillyClassic, or one of the other well-established classic events. Sorry; not trying to be mean or offensive, this is just how I see it. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "RodansRaiders" wrote: > I have been approached by the owner of the American Legion Post in > Winnebago, MN, to have a video game convention in July or August of > 2003. They wont't charge for tables. Dealer, Collectors, and > Public are welcome to play games, trade'em, buy'em, or sell'em. > I forgot to say they have to know now for next year so they know how > many tables to get. If you have any questions about anything or > more info you can email me at konrad@b... > Thanks for reading, > Tim Thomas 521 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 31, 2002 0:59pm Subject: Space Vultures differences atrionfo 'Space Vultures' - REAL vs. MESS Differences -------------------------------------------- I now have an Emerson Arcadia 2001 system, so I can compare version .561 of the MESS emulation to the real hardware. For this comparison I am testing only one game, it is "Space Vultures;" it is one of two games that I have done some disassembly work on, so it's an appropriate choice. I am using the ROM version as supplied on the Arcadia multicart (ROM content version 1.25). I am using the VULTURE.BIN ROM for the emulator. I have noticed a number of differences. I do not have the manual (and no one has come forward with ANY manuals yet to get a manual archive started), so when I am talking about certain aspects of the game, I have had to "wing it," as I do not know the proper names for the enemy creatures. Some of these differences may be because I don't have the manual (and have started the game differently?), but I also have to wonder if I am using two different ROM versions of this game (since I have noticed so many differences). Here's a table of differences that I spot after playing each game for about ten minutes: Feature Arcadia MESS ------- ------- ---- 1) Score color Orange-Red Magenta 2) Extra ships color Blue-purple (artifact?) Blue 3) 'Top' enemies Move left and right Don't move 4) Player's missile Vertical 'laser' Bomb-shaped 5) Enemy Missiles Bomb-shaped Vertical 'laser' 6) Explosion color orange-red Magenta Can anyone help explain these anomalies? Some of them, the color differences, for instance, are probably just emulation "quirks," but others, like the moving enemies at the top, or the different type of missiles that the player and enemy fire, are different enough to make me scratch my head and wonder what's going on. Can anyone else compare this game side-by-side to help me understand why I see these differences? Is that more than one version of the VULTURE.BIN ROM image floating around the Internet? Ward? PeT? I also tried the 'Phoenix' stage (prop) on a burned ROM on the real hardware and it works okay- more details on that after I figure out how come there are differences between "Space Vultures," a known good game. Adam 522 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri May 31, 2002 4:19pm Subject: Re: Space Vultures differences grumpfix Hello Adam, > 'Space Vultures' - REAL vs. MESS Differences > -------------------------------------------- > > I now have an Emerson Arcadia 2001 system, so I can compare version .561 of > the MESS emulation to the real hardware. For this comparison I am testing > only one game, it is "Space Vultures;" it is one of two games that I have > done some disassembly work on, so it's an appropriate choice. Does it do video/rasterline based effects while the uvi2637 shows screen data? (for example character redefinition) > Feature Arcadia MESS > ------- ------- ---- > 1) Score color Orange-Red Magenta > 2) Extra ships color Blue-purple (artifact?) Blue > 3) 'Top' enemies Move left and right Don't move > 4) Player's missile Vertical 'laser' Bomb-shaped > 5) Enemy Missiles Bomb-shaped Vertical 'laser' > 6) Explosion color orange-red Magenta > > Can anyone help explain these anomalies? Some of them, the color > differences, for instance, are probably just emulation "quirks," but others, > like the moving enemies at the top, or the different type of missiles that > the player and enemy fire, are different enough to make me scratch my head > and wonder what's going on. Thanks for your bug report. I will not test and play every arcadia title on the real console (simply time and interest), so such reports are important. Most information about the arcadia has been reverse engineered from cartridge roms! I don't enjoy (Paul does!?) disassembling and guessing what such s2650 programs do, so such things have low priority on my todo list. An uvi 2637 datasheet will "solve" easily several emulation problems. Color issues (1,2,6): on my to do list (most likely 16 instead of 8 colors like vc4000, screen color generation?, ...) Timing (3?,4?,5?): The uvi2637 has the control over the system and the s2650 cpu! It needs ram access while doing screen display and holds the cpu for this. Unfortunately some programs rely on the exact timing, which will be very difficult to rebuild (especially in MESS without problematic work arounds). > Can anyone else compare this game side-by-side to help me understand why I > see these differences? Is that more than one version of the VULTURE.BIN ROM > image floating around the Internet? Ward? PeT? There is a low chance the program shows different behaviour in PAL and NTSC consoles. If you have a NTSC console I will try it on my PAL console. Peter 523 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 31, 2002 10:18pm Subject: Arcadia Game Instruction Archive List atrionfo Please note, this is the only time this complete list will be posted. Additions will be made on a per cart basic. The latest version of this document can be downloaded from the file section of the Arcadia group. Arcadia Game Instruction Archive List Version 1.0 May 31, 2002 ------------------------------------- Maintained by Adam Trionfo (ballyalley@... - remove 'SPAM') The purpose of this "Instruction Archive List" is to have the Arcadia community work together toward a common goal, that goal is to have the instructions for the Arcadia games available in text format. All of the Arcadia family titles listed here need instructions retyped. If anyone knows where any instructions are already available, please let me know- there's no reason to duplicate work. This list is based upon Ward Shrake's "Arcadia 2001 console group, Game cart list" located at: http://www.classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/cart-nam.htm I've simplified the list, that is I've "discarded" titles that are duplicated by different manufactures. This leaves 99 cart titles (not 99 different ROMS; some ROMS use different names). If you have any of these instructions, please email me. Titles marked with an asterisk ('*') have immediate priority (for varying reasons these title's instructions are extremely useful right now- mostly for MESS emulation vs. real hardware comparisons) All retyping or scanning help is appreciated. For your help, your name will be added to this list as the person who made the instructions available to the Arcadia community. Let's see what we can do together! Arcadia Program Title Re-typed by Priority Task? ------------- ----------- ------------- 3D Bowling N.A. 3D Soccer N.A. Alien Invaders N.A. * American Football N.A. Angriff der Ufos N.A. Astro Invader N.A. * Auto Race N.A. Baseball N.A. Basketball N.A. Bataille Navale N.A. Blackjack and Poker N.A. Bowling N.A. Bowling 3D N.A. Boxing N.A. Brain Quiz N.A. Breakaway N.A. Capture N.A. * Capture / Bowling N.A. Capture / Othello N.A. Cat Track N.A. Cat Trax N.A. * Circus N.A. Combat N.A. Crazy Climber N.A. * Crazy Gobbler N.A. * Crazy Wall N.A. Devilman - The Dot... N.A. Doraemon N.A. Dr. Slump N.A. Echec Etiles N.A. Escadrille De L' Espace N.A. Escape N.A. * Escape Man N.A. Evasion N.A. Football Americain N.A. Fun with Math N.A. Funky Fish N.A. Fussball N.A. Fussball Spiel N.A. Golf N.A. Grand Slam Tennis N.A. Hobo N.A. * Hoppy Bug N.A. Horse Racing N.A. Intelligenzubung N.A. Invasion aus dem... N.A. Jump Bug N.A. * Jungler N.A. * L'Escadron De L'Espace N.A. La Desertion N.A. Le Combat Naval N.A. Le Glouton Super Vorace N.A. Le Guerre Des Missiles N.A. Le Robot Meurtrier N.A. Math / Logic N.A. Mathematiques Logiques N.A. Missile War N.A. Mission Spaciale N.A. Mobile Soldier Gundam N.A. Nibblemen N.A. Ocean Battle N.A. Parashooter N.A. Pferderennen N.A. Pinball N.A. Pleiades N.A. R2D Tank N.A. Raumfahrt N.A. Red Clash N.A. Robot Killer N.A. * Route 16 N.A. * Sea Battle N.A. Seeschlacht N.A. Side Attack N.A. Soccer N.A. Space Attack N.A. Space Mission N.A. Space Pirates N.A. Space Raiders N.A. Space Squadron N.A. Space Vultures N.A. * Spiders N.A. Star Chess N.A. * Super Bug N.A. Super Dimension... N.A. Super Gobbler N.A. Tanks A Lot N.A. * Tennis N.A. Tennis: Yannick Noah N.A. The End N.A. Turtles / Turpin N.A. Vautour De L'Espace N.A. Video Chess N.A. Video-Autorennen N.A. Video-Bowling N.A. Video-Fussball N.A. Video-Lexicon N.A. Video-M?hle N.A. Video-Panzerspiel N.A. Video-Schach N.A. Weltraum-Abenteuer N.A. End of document 524 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri May 31, 2002 11:44pm Subject: Signetics Data Manuals atrionfo Signetics Data Manuals All five of the Signetics Data Manuals that I requested from the local library arrived over the past week; I picked them up yesterday afternoon. When I was choosing which books to order, some of the listings were not dated, so I ordered them blindly: two of them are identical, and one was published in 1986 (too late for our uses). I have the books checked out for three weeks, and the chances of renewal are slim, so I have to use them while I have access to them. Here is what I am borrowing: 1. Signetics Corporation. SIGNETICS 2650 MICROPROCESSOR (Sunnyvale: Signetics Corp, Sept., 1977). 2. Signetics Corporation. DATA MANUAL 1978: SIGNETICS LOGIC- TTL - SPECIFICATIONS - MILITARY SUMMARY (San Francisco, Uniplan, May, 1978). 3. Signetics Corporation. DATA MANUAL 1979: SIGNETICS BIPOLAR & MOS MEMORY (Sunnyvale: Signetics Corp, Jan., 1979). 4. Signetics Corporation. DATA MANUAL 1986: MICROPROCESSOR PRODUCTS (Sunnyvale: Signetics Corp, 1986). I have already searched through the manuals for references to the 2636 and 2637 and there are none. The 1979 data manual does mention a 2609 (a character generator); is it possible that the 263x series is based on it? The most useful of these books is the 2650 MICROPROCESSOR manual. Some of this manual was scanned in by someone else (and is available on the Internet), but it is not complete. What's omitted are chapters on using the Signetics supplied 2650 assembler and simulator, additional information on the 2650A, and various tables. Some of this information is of historical value only; for instance, since the 2650 manual gives information on how to program the 2650 using a Signetics supplied assembler (written in Fortran IV), it isn't a giant leap to imagine that this is the setup that was used to write Arcadia games. Ward will point out that just because the programming language was available from Signetics doesn't mean that it was used by Arcadia programmers (he is absolutely right), but this information was readily available and Signetics did push the assembler (this isn't unusual, as without an assembler, manufacturers would have one Hell of a tough time using the 2650 CPU). My goal while I have these books is to scan the table of contents from the manuals and post them, temporarily, as PDF files for others to take a look at. I wouldn't want to overlook anything that may be of use to this discussion group. Adam 525 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 0:03am Subject: Re: Space Vultures differences atrionfo Peter, >> Does it do video/rasterline based effects while the uvi2637 shows screen data? (for example character redefinition) >> Hmmm, not sure how to check on that. Let me know what I'm looking for and I'll look into it deeply. >> Thanks for your bug report. >> This wasn't meant as a bug report... but I guess that's what it is. If I can present information in a better manner, just let me know. >> I will not test and play every arcadia title on the real console (simply time and interest), so such reports are important. >> Who could blame you; there is no way to test everything. We should all pitch in together. I'll look through more games over the next few weeks. When I do this with my son (who's eight), we are able to have fun, and I get to check the differences. By the way, he says this about the Arcadia, "For Atari graphics, the games look good." >> Most information about the arcadia has been reverse engineered from cartridge roms! I don't enjoy (Paul does!?) disassembling and guessing what such s2650programs do, so such things have low priority on my todo list. >> Understood. I've been looking though the code in order to get an Arcadia screen up; if the information was available, say as a tutorial, I wouldn't be wading through the code myself, trying to figure out what does what. It's a VERY time-consuming process, but it has its rewards. Seeing the "Phoenix" ship up on the real Arcadia gave me a thrill, and made the trouble worth it (thanks for your help with that). >> An uvi 2637 datasheet will "solve" easily several emulation problems. >> I'm looking for that datasheet; eventually one of these databooks will have to have it. You'll know when I find it- you'll probably hear me screen, "I got it!." If you have any ideas where to look for the datasheet for this chip, just say so. I'm very willing to do the leg work to get the information into your (well, our) hands. >> Color issues (1,2,6): on my to do list (most likely 16 instead of 8 colors like vc4000, screen color generation?, ...) >> I find the artifacting of the colors for the player's extra ship interesting- I wonder if it's intention. >> Timing (3?,4?,5?): The uvi2637 has the control over the system and the s2650 cpu! It needs ram access while doing screen display and holds the cpu for this. Unfortunately some programs rely on the exact timing, which will be very difficult to rebuild (especially in MESS without problematic work arounds). >> Timing is an issue that I need to look into myself. I hope it doesn't involve cycle counting to get anything neat done. That would be a turn off. Might as well write a VCS game if that's the case. >> There is a low chance the program shows different behaviour in PAL and NTSC consoles. If you have a NTSC console I will try it on my PAL console. >> I live in New York state, so I am using an NTSC system with an NTSC television. Adam 526 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 10:15am Subject: 2650 and 2650A Data Manual Booklets posted atrionfo I have scanned and posted two data manuals in the file section under the folder "Data Manual Pages:" 1) 2650_booklet.pdf - 2650 Data Manual Booklet 2) 2650a_booklet.pdf - 2650A Data Manual Booklet Adam 527 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 11:33am Subject: Three Signetics Data manuals posted atrionfo I have scanned and posted the table of contents from three Signetics data manuals and placed these (as PDF files) in the file section under the folder "Data Manual Pages:" 1) 1978_data_manual-toc.pdf Signetics 1978 Data Manual - Table of Contents 10 pages - 685 KB 2) 1979_data_manual-toc.pdf Signetics 1979 Data Manual - Table of Contents 8 Pages - 511 KB 3) 1986_data_manual-toc.pdf Signetics 1986 Data Manual - Table of Contents 3 Pages - 114K Please let me know what might be useful for the Arcadia group, as these data manuals need to get returned to the library. Adam 528 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 3:52pm Subject: Re: Space Vultures differences grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: > > Peter, > > >> > Does it do video/rasterline based effects while the uvi2637 shows screen > data? > (for example character redefinition) > >> > > Hmmm, not sure how to check on that. Let me know what I'm looking for and > I'll look into it deeply. The main routine/video refresh for this level. Usually waiting for vsync signal. > >> > Most information about the arcadia has been reverse engineered from > cartridge roms! > I don't enjoy (Paul does!?) disassembling and guessing what such > s2650programs do, so such things have low priority on my todo list. > >> > > Understood. I've been looking though the code in order to get an Arcadia > screen up; if the information was available, say as a tutorial, I wouldn't > be wading through the code myself, trying to figure out what does what. > It's a VERY time-consuming process, but it has its rewards. Seeing the > "Phoenix" ship up on the real Arcadia gave me a thrill, and made the trouble > worth it (thanks for your help with that). I doubt there were "good" tutorials or detailed datasheets/descriptions. > >> > Color issues (1,2,6): on my to do list (most likely 16 instead of 8 colors > like vc4000, screen color generation?, ...) > >> > > I find the artifacting of the colors for the player's extra ship > interesting- I wonder if it's intention. I haven't seen artifacting yet. Don't you need a very high dot clock/luminance signal to effect the chrominance signal of ntsc/pal composite signals? > >> > Timing (3?,4?,5?): > The uvi2637 has the control over the system and the s2650 cpu! It needs ram > access while doing screen display and holds the cpu for this. Unfortunately > some programs rely on the exact timing, which will be very difficult to > rebuild (especially in MESS without problematic work arounds). > >> > > Timing is an issue that I need to look into myself. I hope it doesn't > involve cycle counting to get anything neat done. That would be a turn off. > Might as well write a VCS game if that's the case. No, I doubt somebody did/knew the complex cycle counting. "A few tests until it showed the wanted behaviour". Peter 529 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 4:07pm Subject: Re: Signetics Data Manuals grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: > Signetics Data Manuals Does one contain detailed info/timing about the PSG2621. And about its NTSC variant? (Not found in the 1978,1979,1986 table of contents.) Peter 530 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 10:46pm Subject: Re: Signetics Data Manuals atrionfo PeT wrote: >> Does one contain detailed info/timing about the PSG2621. And about its NTSC variant? (Not found in the 1978,1979,1986 table of contents.) >> No, none of the manuals contain that information. The TOC does show everything inside, but I double-checked anyway. I'll keep an eye out for datasheets on these chips as well. The 2650A booklet that I uploaded yesterday says "The 2650A is a funtional equivalent of the 2650 with a new mask design which provides improved device operating margins." Could this affect the emulation? Doesn't the MESS emulation use a 2650 CPU? Adam 531 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 11:23pm Subject: Re: Scanning B&W pictures as TIFFs atrionfo Charles, I converted the scans that you made of the 2650 instruction set and the typewriter pages into B&W tiff files and then converted them to pdf files. The quality was reduced because they were not saved originally as tiff, but the size of the file was GREATLY reduced. Interesting, the quality would be higher, but the file size would be the same if they had not been saved as jpg first. 1) 2650.pdf 2650 instruction set page 1-2 69K (compared to the original total jpg size of 688K) 2) typewriter.pdf Typewriter Controller pages 1-3 85K (compared to the original total jpg size of 975K) You say that you have access to ACDSee 32, and Paintshop Pro 7. I use ACDSee, but have not used Paintshop Pro (I use Photoshop 5.5). I suggest that the next time you scan some documents for uploading, you select either "line art" or "black and white mode" and then save the file as a TIFF (preferred) or a GIF. The TIFF will be bigger (as we've discussed before), but then you can zip it and it will get MUCH small (TIFFs are uncompressed data, so they really shrink when zipped, as compared to zipping a jpg file, which is already compressed and sometimes MAY even get bigger when zipped). After you upload any files, I can convert them to pdf files for small size and ease of distribution. Adam 532 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jun 1, 2002 11:26pm Subject: Intelligent Typewriter Controller atrionfo The "Intelligent Typewriter Controller" (in the File section of the discussion group) is a neat package- it reminds me of the "TV Type-writer Cookbook." Since Signetics created a document like this just to "push" their chips, I agree that they probably made a document detailing how to make a TV-Game-Machine (or some similar sounding name) which was adapted as the Arcadia. This ideas all well and good, but how do we find this phantom paper? I suppose just keep wading through the data manuals, one by one, until we find it (and the 2636/7 and 2621 data sheets too). Adam 533 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 2:17am Subject: Re: Signetics Data Manuals grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: > The 2650A booklet that I uploaded yesterday says "The 2650A is a funtional > equivalent of the 2650 with a new mask design which provides improved device > operating margins." Could this affect the emulation? Doesn't the MESS > emulation use a 2650 CPU? As long as they didn't add/change/remove/fix opcodes, change instruction timing, add on chip peripherals ... it will not be important for mess. Sounds to me they changed temperature operation range, operation voltage range, ... Peter 534 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 3:01am Subject: Re: Space Vultures differences grumpfix > > Feature Arcadia MESS > > ------- ------- ---- > > 1) Score color Orange-Red Magenta > > 2) Extra ships color Blue-purple (artifact?) Blue > > 3) 'Top' enemies Move left and right Don't move > > 4) Player's missile Vertical 'laser' Bomb-shaped > > 5) Enemy Missiles Bomb-shaped Vertical 'laser' > > 6) Explosion color orange-red Magenta > > > > Can anyone help explain these anomalies? Some of them, the color > > differences, for instance, are probably just emulation "quirks," but others, > > like the moving enemies at the top, or the different type of missiles that > > the player and enemy fire, are different enough to make me scratch my head > > and wonder what's going on. > > Color issues (1,2,6): on my to do list (most likely 16 instead of 8 > colors like vc4000, > screen color generation?, ...) MESS behaviour confirmed. The tv signal of my palladium is a problem. The background white of the 'top enemies' is not clean (maybe light grey!?). Magenta and cyan are not clean. I looked through several mpt03 screenhots. Except for its darker colors, only golf and nibblemen showed different colors. crazy climber shows probably 2 shades of yellow. Circuit diagram shows 16 different colors. > Timing (3?,4?,5?): > The uvi2637 has the control over the system and the s2650 cpu! > It needs ram access while doing screen display and holds the cpu > for this. > Unfortunately some programs rely on the exact timing, which will be > very difficult to rebuild (especially in MESS without problematic work > arounds). Confirmed on a PAL Palladium Video-Computer-Game. Might be a simple vertical retrace position issue. Peter 535 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 3:54am Subject: Re: Space Vultures differences commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > 'Space Vultures' - REAL vs. MESS Differences > -------------------------------------------- (snip) > Is that more than one version > of the VULTURE.BIN ROM image > floating around the Internet? > Ward? PeT? No, there is not. Any differences you spotted are genuine "emulator versus real thing" differences, and not ROM image differences. Jim Agar loaned me his "Space Vultures" cart back in November 1998, and I dumped the "vultures.bin" file from it. I have never dumped a second cart; or more correctly, I never found a cart that showed any byte-by-byte differences, if/when I ever redumped that game later. That one file has always been the only one available on the Internet, with one exception; an 8k and a 6k version may exist. (I don't recall if I dumped it as 8k and released it that way, or trimmed it to 6k right away. In either case, the first 6k will match, byte-for-byte.) And yes, I did use that same "vulture.bin" file in the multicart. If you guys are interested, you can look for "multi.bat" in the files section; a newly uploaded file. It is the actual DOS batch file that I use to take all of the seperate Arcadia 2001 ROM images, and to put them all into one big 512k file, so that I could burn a 512k EPROM to make my multicarts with. You'll see "vulture.bin" listed in there. If you do look at that "multi.bat" file, try not to puke. It is a mess -- (no pun intended) -- in there, mostly because I padded all of the files out to 8k, if any of them were less than 8k in length. The many "padxxxx.bin" files seen in there are simply ASCII files I use to pad things out, of exactly the size seen in that file name. (So "pad6144.bin" is a 6k ASCII file, to make a 2k file now be 8k.) Another problem with that batch file, as far as prettiness goes, is that I first sorted the games by file name, alphabetically, when I put them in there, sequentially. So they are not necessarily in order, by game name; technically, "vulture.bin" belongs with the other "space (whatever)" games, but is listed along with the "V" letters. This hardly matters, though, given the eight zillion name variations of each of the game programs for this console group. -- Ward Shrake -- 536 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 3:59am Subject: Re: Signetics Data Manuals commie_fan Somewhere in this vast pile of info we have accumulated, I seem to recall a sentence or two that said the 2650A chip was FASTER in some way, than the 2650? But I do not recall where I saw that, now? Sorry! -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > Adam Trionfo wrote: > > The 2650A booklet that I uploaded yesterday says "The 2650A is a funtional > > equivalent of the 2650 with a new mask design which provides improved device > > operating margins." Could this affect the emulation? Doesn't the MESS > > emulation use a 2650 CPU? > > As long as they didn't add/change/remove/fix opcodes, change instruction > timing, > add on chip peripherals ... > it will not be important for mess. > Sounds to me they changed temperature operation range, operation voltage > range, ... > > Peter 537 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 5:11am Subject: Re: Arcadia Game Instruction Archive List commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > All retyping or scanning > help is appreciated. Check the files section of this message board; I just uploaded four complete manuals. I put them in a new folder, by themselves, to make it easier to keep things organized, now and in the future. The manuals I chose to upload are in JPG format. This is because that is how I scanned them in, some weeks or months ago, when I had access to them. I think Adam's idea of doing them as TIFF's is a good idea, so any other ones that I scan in, after this, will likely be that way. The four manuals are: Crazy Climber, Boxing, Nibblemen, and Parashooter. The latter three may need to be translated, from Dutch to English; I believe Stefan once said he could handle that chore? I had some others from Stefan, that I was tempted to upload, but I didn't do it. I'll upload them as well, if Stefan tells me that he can't get better scans of them? (Some are kind of blurry, and so on.) Grab these while they are up there, because I'll eventually take them down. We simply do not have the room to keep them up there, forever. I will be forced to take some things down, as we're already 40% up to our total capacity right now, as far as storage space here goes. -- Ward Shrake -- 538 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 6:04am Subject: Re: Arcadia Game Instruction Archive List commie_fan I added two more manuals... Alien Invaders and Cat Trax. I'm out of good manuals, now. I never had many to begin with, since I'm not really a collector. The only two I still have, that are not scanned in yet, are badly torn and water damaged... and not on Adam's "hot list" of ones he needs right away, anyway. So that's it for me... -- Ward Shrake -- 539 From: "ventrra" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 10:16am Subject: Re: Scanning B&W pictures as TIFFs ventrra Adam: Ok. There wasn't much I could do about the way the files are scanned. I'm not the one with the scanner, so I just did what I could with the files that were returned to me. It may be better to just keep doing like this with me occasionally getting scans done and you fixing them (if you have time, feel inclined to do so, etc.). Although now that you have the one that I have, you can see some of what I was talking about. Charles 540 From: "ventrra" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 10:21am Subject: Re: Intelligent Typewriter Controller ventrra >--- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" >wrote: > The "Intelligent Typewriter Controller" (in the File section of the > discussion group) is a neat package- it reminds me of the "TV Type- writer > Cookbook." > > Since Signetics created a document like this just to "push" their chips, I > agree that they probably made a document detailing how to make a > TV-Game-Machine (or some similar sounding name) which was adapted as the > Arcadia. > > This ideas all well and good, but how do we find this phantom paper? I > suppose just keep wading through the data manuals, one by one, until we find > it (and the 2636/7 and 2621 data sheets too). > > Adam I have an idea about that, but I'm not sure how it would work out. There's a list of the distributors and such in the back of the manual that I have. I wonder how many of them are still around and have archives dating back that far? Unfortunately for me, my computer is in bad shape at the moment and I have to use a different one to post here for now. Maybe I can get a scan of the lists so that they could be checked out (or maybe Adam could do it from the ones that he has if he's inclined to do so). Charles 541 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 0:43pm Subject: Three Arcadia manuals re-typed atrionfo I used some OCR on Ward's manual scans, but mostly they were re-typed. Here's the three I've done so far: Alien Invaders - Arcadia Cat Trax - Arcadia Crazy Climber - MPT-03 I created a folder in the file section called "Manuals - Text Format;" you can find the manuals there. They sure are small (5-8K each). When there are a bunch of manuals (he says, crossing his fingers), then I'll zip them up into one archive file for an easy, quick download. Thanks for posting the scans for these manuals, Ward! Is anyone able to re-type the non-english manuals? Ward, the condition of the manuals you post doesn't matter. A water damaged and torn manual is fine, just as long as it can read it-- that's all anyone needs to be able to do; we're not archiving the manuals themselves, but rather the text they contain. One last thing- don't blame me for the bad grammer in these manuals, I just re-typed them and left the grammer the way it was written. Has anyone read these manuals before; some of the sentences don't even make sense! Adam 542 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 0:52pm Subject: Re: Scanning B&W pictures as TIFFs atrionfo Charles wrote: >> It may be better to just keep doing like this with me occasionally getting scans done and you fixing them (if you have time, feel inclined to do so, etc.). Although now that you have the one that I have, you can see some of what I was talking about. >> Well, I DON'T have the data manual with the Intelligent Typewriter- that's the 1977 data manual (I think). I have not laid my grubby hands on it; that's okay though, as you said it doesn't have what we are looking for. I am willing to "clean up" scans; it doesn't take long. That doesn't mean, "hey, let's upload unreadable stuff and Adam will fix it." I can't do that, I don't have a magic wand, but I CAN usually make the files smaller. Just post a message and the file and I'll get to it as soon as I can. I've been meaning to ask this question: do you prefer pdf files over separate files? I just presume people do pdf over other formats, am I correct in this presumption? Adam 543 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 1:29pm Subject: Finding the correct data manuals atrionfo Charles wrote: << I have an idea about that [finding the correct Signets data manuals], but I'm not sure how it would work out. There's a list of the distributors and such in the back of the manual that I have. I wonder how many of them are still around and have archives dating back that far? [...] Maybe I can get a scan of the lists so that they could be checked out >> Your idea is sound, in fact, it's probably the best way to tackle this problem. I took the time to scan the sections of the manuals that you requested. I posted them in the "Data Manual Pages" section. 1978_sales.pdf (4 pages) - 275K 1986_sales.pdf (5 pages) - 352K I suggest that you cross-reference these two lists of companies against anyone that might still be listed as suppliers for Signetics. These files are large, and Ward's comments about limited space are valid. Let me know when you have downloaded these files. I'll delete them a couple of days after that (I can always repost them, as I'll leave them on my computer). Adam 544 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 10:21pm Subject: Two more Arcadia manuals re-typed atrionfo I used some OCR on Ward's manual scans, but mostly they were re-typed. Here's the three I've done so far: Space Attack - Arcadia 2001 Space Raiders - Arcadia 2001 These two text files are in the file section folder called "Manuals - Text Format." Thanks to Ward for posting these addtional two manual scans. Does anyone else have anything else to offer up? Is anyone able to re-type the non-english manuals? Remember, condition of the manuals isn't important, just as long as they are readable. After retyping five cartridge manuals, I want to know how we overlooked that the Emerson wasn't created in the United States? The grammer and spelling is a dead giveaway. Read a few of the text manuals and you'll see what I mean. I have this urge to edit and correct the mistakes, but I left them the way they are (except for a few of the spelling errors). The grammer is part of the charm... right? Adam 545 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Jun 2, 2002 10:43pm Subject: Doc_list.txt - Version 1.02 atrionfo Doc_list.txt - Version 1.02 I have updated the "Arcadia Game Instruction Archive List" list to reflect the latest five manuals that have been retyped. The file is located in the file section: Doc_list.txt Arcadia Game Instruction Archive List - Version 1.02 I'm very interested in retyping "Space Vultures" and "Crazy Gobbler." Can anyone scan these and upload them? Also, aren't the Emerson titles the most common- I figure that some of the readers of this list have these manuals stashed away. Drag 'em out and fire up that scanner! Adam 546 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Jun 3, 2002 10:55pm Subject: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality atrionfo I am shocked at the poor quality of these Emerson Arcadia manuals that I have been re-typing. Did anyone at Emerson even take a look at the manuals before they went out? Didn't anyone ask themselves what consumers would think of manuals that, in many places, just don't make sense? I've had to re-read many sentences to understand their meaning. Emerson wasn't working out of their garage, they weren't some upstart company; they should have known better than this. Is it possible that Emerson had nothing to do with setting up the Arcadia at all? I know it's "common" knowledge that they didn't make the system, but is it possible that the manuals were just handed over to them too? Did Emerson treat the Arcadia completely "hands-off," letting an overseas company take care of everything, except distribution? These manuals remind me of merchandise I've find in Chinatown (inexpensive products with cheap packaging): I didn't expect this at all. The good news about these manuals is that they do get the point across; they do explain how to play the game. It's just that they could have done it SO much better. Would better manuals have "saved" the Emerson Arcadia 2001 in America? Never. The Arcadia didn't have a chance against the competition, but looking over the American manuals does help to explain how far removed from the "game scene" Emerson really was. Their thinking seemed to be "if it's a game system, then it will sell." Emerson did not invent this mode of thinking, Emerson was simply following the accepted wisdom of the times. It just happens that that "wisdom" was completely wrong. This is conjecture based on reading five manuals; am I way off base here, or are these manuals just more proof that the Arcadia was a worldwide system dreamed-up by some rather anonymous company in some, as yet, unknown country (Taiwan)? Don't leave me gasping for air, let me hear your comments. Adam 547 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 10:02am Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality commie_fan Yes, the manuals stink, as far as grammar and spelling and general "does it make any sense" goes. No question there. And many of the ones I supplied to Adam all said "printed in Hong Kong" on them, which half-explains why there were so many printing / grammar errors. I'm voting towards the idea of the manuals being supplied by some outside company, as part of a "package deal" made with licensees. They probably did the same manual innards, with a different cover page on it? I'm beginning to think so, at least with Emerson family carts, and perhaps with Palladium family carts to some lower degree. This all ties in nicely with the strange and unusual behavior we have noted in the past, regarding cart labels. It is apparent that both Emerson family and MPT-03 family carts were routinely packaged with the cart number being hand-written onto the outside of the plastic case, so that it was obvious in the factory what cart was what *before* they had put any labels on them. Because I've worked in a packaging plant before, I know that is truly odd and unusual behavior... it is "double work" if the carts were just going down the assembly line, and all got a single type of label. But it makes perfect sense, if one was going to stick different labels on the same assembled cartridge, but you wanted to make sure they cart on the inside matched the label. -- Ward Shrake -- 548 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 10:06am Subject: Note to Stefan commie_fan This info is meant mostly for Stefan... I just sent 3.5 megs of manual scans to Adam, which you had sent to me on a CD-ROM. He has those now, and as time / energy / whatever permits, will begin the process of typing them in. That's eight or nine more manuals, which wipes out everything I had, in any form. Stefan, if you can look over the Dutch Ormatu manuals I put up in the files section of this message board, and translate them into English, that would be great. Guys in general: I'm going to take the temporary manual scans down soon. Grab them now, or regret it later, if you want scans of them. We just don't have the space available here, to leave everything up. -- Ward Shrake -- 549 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 0:49pm Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality kiwigame > Message: 1 >Date: Mon, 03 Jun 2002 05:55:56 -0700 > From: "Adam Trionfo" > Subject: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality from> > the "game scene" Emerson really was. Their thinking seemed to be "if it's > a > game system, then it will sell." Emerson did not invent this mode of > thinking, Emerson was simply following the accepted wisdom of the times. > are these manuals just more proof that the Arcadia was a worldwide system > dreamed-up by some rather anonymous company in some, as yet, unknown To Adam (& the rest) I'm personally convinced that Emerson did not design any of this stuff and that they went to the Far East and found a company who would make them a game system as cheap as possible. I've been doing a little research here in the early game import business and I've recently interviewed a guy here in New Zealand who was one of the founders of Grandstand (the UK one - he emigrated later here to NZ) They did'nt really invent anything - every year they went to the Far East and toured around manufacturers looking for things to import. (In some cases they did direct the people as to what to make/research but all they really did was handle the import side of things) One thing that did change this was that in some countries Tariffs & Import Restrictions meant that some degree of assembly/manufacturer did have to occur in the Country where it was sold. (Hence you find systems that have "Made in UK" stickers on them when in fact all the parts were shipped in & only the Assembly was done there) As long as they had the rights for the Countries they were selling into they really did not care if the same Far Eastern company made the same product for other people as well. While its true to some extent that Emerson "missed the boat" honestly I think at the end of the day Emerson & the other companies were targeting the end of the Market where price was the No.1 Concern and brand name recognition was less important. Customer X goes to a shop & sees 2 game systems. One is $99.95, the other is $69.95. They buy the $69.95 system (Arcadia/Hanimex etc.) There may have been some unhappy kids around afterwards BUT hey they got a bargain. (I think also over time there has been a gradual move from parents/grand parents deciding solely what toys/games to buy kids to kids driving what the parents buy them which has altered this dynamic) Heres bits from a bigger interview with the man from Grandstand: This will be published on my site later when I find time but I hope you guys find these excerpts interesting. (esp. Handheld collectors :)) "My name is Les Kenyon, I was a FOUNDER with Chris Rycroft of the Adam leisure group (became Grandstand Leisure) in Harrogate, we formed the company having both left Hanimex U.K. in the 70s to have our own company. In a relatively short time, and being brave enough to travel the far east with our first earnings from wholesaleing sinclair hand held calculaters, we came across a young Chinese couple, Steven and Anne Leung who were starting out in the consumer electronics industry, and were showing some of the first ping-pong black and white tv games, we signed up with them for distribution in the UK and went from strength to strength. this company was the very beggining of V-Tech, or Video Technology, when they went public some years later they were the largest company of this type in Hong Kong, we also took into the UK the first microprosseser based video game from the USA the Faichild F3.: I then asked him about "Astro Wars" ("Galaxy 2" in the USA) which was there biggest UK seller (UK Toy Industries "Toy of the Year" in 1982) "Sales of Astro Wars in UK June to Dec 1982 were 350,000 and about 250,000 in 1983. Of the 350,000 in 82 we shipped 280,000 by air freight which meant that no freight aircraft left Japan without 5000 Astro wars on board, they were scattered on airfields awaiting transhipment for weeks on end, it was a logistical nightmare, but some how we got them to market. When we started to sell hand held games in NZ along side RR Fenton Ltd due to import restrictions we had to import the tools from Japan and Hong Kong, shoot the plastics here and create an assembly line, which as you can imagine for a sales oriented compant was a nightmare in itself, this was done in Newmarket. A Lot of the hand held games we imported or produced for both countries were developed by Video-tech and ourselves, the Astro Wars Munchman etc from Japan." Note: http://www.vtech.com/about/history.htm Has a but of this history from the VTech side of things. Thanks! Mike 550 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Jun 4, 2002 10:40pm Subject: Palladium: Space Mission, right? atrionfo I uploaded the text format of the "Space Mission" manual. I THINK this is the manual from the Palladium system (that's what Ward is pretty sure about). Stefan, could you please confirm this? Thanks. Adam 551 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 5:28am Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., pinwhiz@i... wrote: (snip) > When we started to sell hand > held games in NZ along side > RR Fenton Ltd due to import > restrictions we had to import > the tools from Japan and Hong > Kong, shoot the plastics here > and create an assembly line, Two minor points in regards to this: (a) The technical word "tools" is a reference to what most people in the USA call a "mold". What he is saying then, is that they had the actual finished metal molds brought over, and using an injection molding process, made plastic things like the cases for the games. (b) This type of assembly might explain the one reference that was really bugging me, in the FAQ's accounting of how Hanimex was going to make games for the UK market. The import restrictions might have forced them to do final assembly on something, as a work-around on the legal end of things. That might explain why it appears that most things related to this console group were obviously manufactured in places like Hong Kong, but Hanimex was claiming they were done in their local areas. Obviously, it could not be both, 100%. It meets with the usual half-truths I've come to expect, when I read stories about this game console from the people involved in selling it. The licensees tell half a truth; just enough to make research inevitable. -- Ward Shrake -- 552 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 6:02am Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., pinwhiz@i... wrote: (snip) > I'm personally convinced that > Emerson did not design any of > this stuff and that they went > to the Far East and found a > company who would make them a > game system as cheap as possible. I disagree with the choice of language used here, while agreeing with the idea itself, for the most part. To me, it seems more likely that the Far East company came to Emerson, and not the other way around. Or that if Emerson actually did go looking, that the system was already pre-packaged and ready to go by that time. I doubt that Emerson had any input at all, other than saying "I'll take it" when the idea was presented to them. My feeling is that Emerson was one of the very last of the companies involved with this console group; date codes on ROM chips bear that out, so far. The global spread of this console group had been going on for some time, when Emerson got involved. The Palladium consoles seem to be among the very first ones released, followed by the Ormatu and/or MPT-03 consoles. The Emerson family seems to be almost an after-thought of sorts, at least in the United States. One other thing to consider, is this quote from a stock report that Jonathan Davidson sent to me in 1999... "Sixty years later the well-established Emerson trademark was acquired by New York-based Major Electronics, which changed its name to Emerson Radio Corp. in 1977." What I get out of that comment, is that management apparently had changed in that company, at about the same time that the Atari 2600 was released in the United States. This new management probably just ignored the market at first, like most others did, then tried to jump into the market later when everyone else also got the same idea. The inevitable result was "too little, too late". We know the rest. I'll load the whole file in the files section, somewhere. It makes for interesting reading, if one is trying to figure out the history of all of this stuff. If nothing else, it gives a few vague clues to how things might have happened. For instance, it says that even now there is one Japanese-based company that makes all the products for them, which they sell under different brand names, with low price as their main selling point. Half their business revenue comes from Wal- Mart and Target stores, according to this modern-day stock report. -- Ward Shrake -- 553 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 6:57am Subject: Re: Note to Stefan stefanpiasecki Dear Ward, I'll do what I can. Promise. I have still many of the previous posts to read. I rushed over some and had quite some things to say. Anyways, due to the ongoing soccer world-cup I am totally bombed out when it comes to time. Is there any hurry on this Ward? Something else. I just purchased a book on Ebay (in German) from 1982 that explains how to build a game-computer based on a 2650 processor. The cover-text says that it has all the schematics and part-lists and programming examples one needs to build his own game-computer. It mentions some simple games. I don't have it yet, but as soon as I have it, I'll let you all know about it. This may lead a big step forward as this is probably purely what we need. Stefan 554 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 7:04am Subject: Re: Intelligent Typewriter Controller stefanpiasecki > Since Signetics created a document like this just to "push" their chips, I > agree that they probably made a document detailing how to make a > TV-Game-Machine (or some similar sounding name) which was adapted as the > Arcadia. > > This ideas all well and good, but how do we find this phantom paper? I Well, I just purchased a book in German from 1982: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=1355443158&r=0&t=0&showTutorial=0&ed=1022931149&indexURL =0&rd=1 It is about building a games computer based on the 2650 with schematics and programming tips. I don't have it yet but expect it every day. This may be what we need. As the reader should be able to build a "programmable home-computer", they may also mention typewriters and storage-systems. Let's see. On the cover are some screenshots. The one in the bottom left corner looks very much like a flipper.... I am curious about what they say where these shots come from. Stefan 555 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 7:19am Subject: Re: Note to Stefan commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > Is there any hurry on this Ward? Yes and no. If you would, please download any of the manuals that need to be translated as soon as you can, so I can delete them, to gain the space back. But other than that, no, there's no huge hurry. You'll find them in the Files section, in the appropriate "temp" sub- directory. -- Ward Shrake -- 556 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 7:26am Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality stefanpiasecki Well, like many things also these come down to the question what somebody was willing to do for his product. Some just bought "large stocks" of something and were happy when the stuff arrived so that they could have been distributed. Some other companies may have put more work and... yes, love in to it. If you read TVG box-texts for instance, they are always somewhat different than the English texts underneath. Obviously somebody in this company cared (they also made adverts), while others in other companies didn't care. You may like to hear a personal note: in 1995/6 I worked for an English games company. They produced games but weren't interested in games, just in selling them. Once we had a Iso-3D role-playing game for the Amiga that was really cool (one of the last Amiga titles these days). Also the developers were very creative because they also cared. They had a story to tell. Now, my bosses in the UK produced a standard box with a standard cover and a b/w manual (like they always did). According to the game and its contents and to the amount of creativity and love the developers put into this, the whole pack was just lousy and nobody was happy with it. When we were preparing the release in Germany, Europe's biggest market, I ordered a handpainted cover illustration, made a new logo and box design, organised a full coloured booklet and so on. What was the result? We sold about 3000 copies in the UK and about 13000 in Germany. We did this because we believed in this game and we wanted to make also our work count. Ah, the game was called "Tower of Souls" ("Der Seelenturm" in Germany, also came with a printed short novel), developed by Parys Technografx in Wales/UK, one of the coolest and warmest bunch of people I met over the years. If somebody is interested I can upload a comparison of both boxes, but this would be really off topic. I guess things and conflicts like these happen all the time in this business. And I am telling this because some guys here obviously have no idea how uncreative and dull this whole business can be. For many of these borderzone-console-importers the games, their boxes and manuals were just stuff that rolled in one day, was sold over the phone and rolled out of the warehouse again the other day. No more involvement or interest intended. Stefan 557 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 7:30am Subject: Massive "file" and "photo" re-organization commie_fan Hi guys. I just organized all of the files and photos that were online. None of the files were deleted. They were simply moved into new folders that I used to group similar things together. It makes it much easier to find things, this way. Better for the long term, too. Try not to hate me, but all of the photos, however, have now been deleted. This is because of various reasons, including the idea that we found out that huge scans are radically compressed by the Yahoo! file system. It is impossible to display pictures larger than a certain size; Yahoo! wants you to buy a printout from them, so that does us no good whatsoever. From now on, it makes more sense to delete all the older pics (so I did), and to simply upload smaller scans. Any really large, detailed, high resolution pictures can and should go to the "files" section instead. I set up a directory system just for this sort of thing, with sub-folders that will help us stay organized better in the future. Also, many of the images were FAR too dark, with far too little contrast. See if you guys can lighten up or otherwise adjust your pics before you re-upload them, and adjust the contrast accordingly. (If you do not have any photo manipulation programs, the older version of "Print Shop Pro" is good, and it is a shareware download.) One other reason is that some of the pics were just up there for a little while, to show to Joe Santulli, the editor of the upcoming "Digital Press Collectors Guide". He downloaded all the pics he needed, some time ago, so it makes no sense to leave his stuff up. I have nothing against photos... we just had more difficulties than we expected, with that part of the message boards, so starting over makes more sense. Upload small pics to the photo section, and any larger ones that should not be compressed to the files section, from now on. -- Ward Shrake -- 558 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 7:31am Subject: Re: Palladium: Space Mission, right? stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I uploaded the text format of the "Space Mission" manual. I THINK this is > the manual from the Palladium system (that's what Ward is pretty sure > about). Stefan, could you please confirm this? Thanks. Yes, it is. The German original title is "Weltraum Abenteuer". All other copies known are called Space Mission (even in the English section of the Palladium manual). Stefan 559 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 7:37am Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality stefanpiasecki > things related to this console group were obviously manufactured in > places like Hong Kong, but Hanimex was claiming they were done in > their local areas. Obviously, it could not be both, 100%. It meets > with the usual half-truths I've come to expect, when I read stories > about this game console from the people involved in selling it. The > licensees tell half a truth; just enough to make research inevitable. Well, as all the Arcadia consoles look the same, I doubt that they were produced outside HongKong. When these guys imported the Astro- machines, they had already left Hanimex and had obviously nothing to do with the Arcadia (at least in the UK, right). All manuals and machines I have ever seen had the "Made in Hong Kong" marking somewhere. I guess that this "produced in the UK" theory was just invented by the marketing to make people buy local stuff. Look, the Interton VC4000 is still famours in Germany because people think it was the first German made games console. But it wasn't. We still don't know who was first on the market: Interton with their games or Hanimex with its 1296 system (or Radofin or Prinztr....) that were then licensed to Interton. Maybe Interton just produced another casing? By the way, this reminds me of contacting the T?rk guys again, the founders of Intertin (damn, I am really short of time these days). Stefan 560 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 6:04pm Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., pinwhiz@i... wrote: (snip) > Note: > http://www.vtech.com/about/history.htm > Has a but of this history from the VTech side of things. Humm, no word about the Creativision there :( Cheers, Dieter 561 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 6:30pm Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > another casing? By the way, this reminds me of contacting the T?rk > guys again, the founders of Intertin (damn, I am really short of time > these days). That'd be great, Stefan. Again my offer to help you with the interview! I'd be very interested! Cheers, Dieter 562 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 10:27pm Subject: Re: Comments on Emerson Manual Quality stefanpiasecki > That'd be great, Stefan. Again my offer to help you with the > interview! I'd be very interested! > > Cheers, > Dieter Okay, maybe you can start collecting questions that I will then ask them. I am more or less most interested in how the business worked these days, which were the names and people, how they compared technologies and why they did what they did. Stefan 563 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Jun 5, 2002 10:33pm Subject: Arcadia programming: Is this the rosetta stone? stefanpiasecki Hi, yesterday I told you about the book that I just purchased and today it arrived ("TV Game Computer - how to play with microprocessors"). I only browsed through it but it tells you everything about building a programmable computer based on the 2650A with a keyboard, a tape drive and even a cartridge slot. It has photos of this machine inside and it looks cool. The base version has 2K, but they also describe a deluxe version with additional 3K (5K, eh?). It has everything, schematics, useful routines, disassembler-listing etc. and it has the 2560 instructions set. It also shows how pictures can be encoded and what such a code looks like and it describes a game that looks like an early version of Space Mission. Now the bad thing, it is German, but there are references to Dutch and English versions of this book and... they claim that thanks go to some people at Philips!!! Stefan 564 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 1:23am Subject: Re: Arcadia programming: Is this the rosetta stone? atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> yesterday I told you about the book that I just purchased and today it arrived ("TV Game Computer - how to play with microprocessors"). >> Sounds very interesting, indeed! Excellent find! Could you be a little more specific about the title of the book (is that it EXACTLY, or is that a rough translation?) and could you include publisher, publication date, city of publication, ISBN, author and anything else that might lend a scrap of information? I certainly don't know German, but it is possible that I might be able to use the local library resources to find an english copy of this book- or at least find some information about it. Also, it's possible that the author of the book has articles printed in magazines from that era, and that's a great place to start looking too. I've also noticed that there are an amazing amount of writers that wrote tech books back then that are STILL writing tech books today- that could lead to something too. Adam 565 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 1:29am Subject: Universal Keyboard Overlays atrionfo Universal Keyboard Overlays Has anyone worked out the keypad equivalents for different versions of the Arcadia system? Since the keyboard layout is different on some of the systems (i.e. MPT-03 and Emerson), which keys "equal" what? This seems more important now that I'm retyping the manuals. It's struck me that for the manuals to be of most use, an ASCII keyboard "translation" table would be handy (it sure beats re-typing a different overlay for each system). Anyone up for this? Is there one around already? Adam 566 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 4:43am Subject: Re: Arcadia programming: Is this the rosetta stone? commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: (snip) > Now the bad thing, it is German, > but there are references to Dutch > and English versions of this book > and... they claim that thanks go > to some people at Philips!!! > Stefan Which people? We should probably be compiling a list of "players" to keep online somewhere, and add to it when we can. Sort of like what the military or intelligence folks do, when trying to figure out the "organization chart" of a group of people they're investigating? I honestly don't think we're going to figure out where UAL fit into all of this, unless we start using some pretty fancy research tools? And one other thing, off-topic: every time I hear of a potentially new discovery, I cringe for a moment, while reading about it. Why? The write-up that I sent to Digital Press in May, that will come out in August in the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" book, is already set in stone. I can't change anything I wrote, if we find new info. That's the sad reality of paper-format books. They're cool in many ways, but the whole "publishing deadline versus new discoveries" thing can be a bit nerve-wracking. So far, it is holding up well. (But now that I've said that, "Murphy's Law" will be enforced.) -- Ward Shrake -- 567 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 6:30am Subject: 'Alien Invaders' - PAL vs. NTSC atrionfo 'Alien Invaders' - PAL vs. NTSC The Emerson Arcadia 2001 version of "Alien Invaders" (NTSC) manual has a different scoring system than "Alien Invader" for the Palladium system. I'm taking a guess here and presuming these are the same game, and I THOUGHT these were the same ROM. Now I'm not so sure; hopefully some of you can help me figure this out. The manuals list the scoring system based on color. I thought that the colors might be different because of the differences between PAL and NTSC systems, but there's more to the story than that; some of the scores don't have equivalents (i.e. there are no invaders worth one point on the Palladium version of the game). Here's the scoring details, taken directly from the manuals. Emerson Arcadia Palladium "Alien Invaders" "Alien Invader" -------------------------- -------------------------- Yellow invader 1 point Yellow Invader 2 points Green invader 2 points Green Invader 3 points Red invader 3 points Red Invader 4 points Black invader 4 points Black Invader 5 points Mother Ship 9 points Mother Ship 9 points What I hope is that these are differences in the manuals, and NOT in the ROMS. I tested the scoring system on the Emerson, and it is correct, all the points that the manuals states to be the worth of a destroyed alien are accurate. Now, can someone test out "Alien Invader" on the Palladium and tell me if the scoring system matches the manual? If it does, then there are some ROM differences- there HAVE to be at least a subtle difference in the scoring system. There seem to be timing difference between these two versions too. As stated in the manual for the Emerson, "You have 5 minutes of accelerated computer time showing (actual time is approx. 3 minutes) to accomplish this task." The Palladium doesn't mention anything about "accelerated" time; it just says, "The count down timer on the screen starts counting from 5 minutes." This timing issue could be a ROM difference too, but I suspect this has to do with the PAL and NTSC timing issues. So, who can help explain this? Is there a way to set the MESS emulator into either PAL or NTSC mode? That might help sort this out. Adam 568 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 6:51am Subject: Re: Arcadia programming: Is this the rosetta stone? stefanpiasecki Hi Adam, here are the infos: The title is "TV-Spiel-Computer - Spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor" (transl. see above), the author is P. Holmes and the publisher is "Elektor Verlag GmbH". They are still around and I will ask them if they still have hardware or copies of the software-tapes somewhere available (they will for sure have personal copies...). There are references in this book to foreign copies published by "Elektuur B.V., Beek, Holland" and "Elektor Publishers Ltd., Canterbury, England" and "Elektor sarl, Bailleul, France". People they thank for any help are - Philips, Eindhoven, NL - P.J. Dickers for the hardware - R. Pequet who developed the original version of the Eprom- programming devices - G.M. Roberts for an enhanced text-routine - M. Saliger for basic ideas on the disassembler - and a M.V. Norman for various help. This list of names consists of names with a French, Dutch, English and German origin (impressive). Adam, if you send me your mail address, I will copy the book and send the whole stuff to you. The schematics and board-layouts, diagrams and machine instructions are all in English and if you send me a question regarding a certain page I can trabnslate it for you. Stefan 569 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 7:06am Subject: Re: 'Alien Invaders' - PAL vs. NTSC stefanpiasecki Hi, the Arcadia manual is right. I just tested the Palladium version and it counts exactly as they do in the Arcadia manual. So the Palladium manual is wrong. Also the timing is interesting. I didn't actually count the exact timing, but the seconds go faster than normal. That's for sure. I didn't test how fast the time runs out on the Arcadia. This might be an interesting test as probably the Palladium is a bit faster. Stefan 570 From: "CharlesD916" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 10:24am Subject: Re: Arcadia programming: Is this the rosetta stone? CharlesD916 don't remember seeing this posted, if it has I'm sorry. http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt some interesting information from the German Book. Charles D. www.evg2000.com 571 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 5:14pm Subject: Re: Arcadia programming: Is this the rosetta stone? grumpfix stefanpiasecki wrote: > yesterday I told you about the book that I just purchased and today > it arrived ("TV Game Computer - how to play with microprocessors"). I > only browsed through it but it tells you everything about building a > programmable computer based on the 2650A with a keyboard, a tape > drive and even a cartridge slot. It has photos of this machine inside > and it looks cool. The base version has 2K, but they also describe a > deluxe version with additional 3K (5K, eh?). It has everything, > schematics, useful routines, disassembler-listing etc. and it has the > 2560 instructions set. > It also shows how pictures can be encoded and what such a code looks > like and it describes a game that looks like an early version of > Space Mission. > Now the bad thing, it is German, but there are references to Dutch > and English versions of this book and... they claim that thanks go to > some people at Philips!!! I guess all 2650/2636 systems are quite similar and probably based on a signetics reference design. I have a short pvi2636 datasheet and the circuit diagram of the elektor tv spielcomputer. I would be interested if your book contains additional info. Will you check this if I upload them to yahoo? Do you think a scan of the book can be reduced in size by OCR-software. Peter 572 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 3:36pm Subject: Re: 'Alien Invaders' - PAL vs. NTSC grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: > So, who can help explain this? Is there a way to set the MESS emulator into > either PAL or NTSC mode? That might help sort this out. Not yet. When more about the video timing/sizes is/are known, Palladium VCG will get its PAL timing. Peter 573 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 9:22pm Subject: Re: Arcadia programming: Is this the rosetta stone? stefanpiasecki Interesting, but the title of my book is completely different. But the contents is similar. I didn't have to read it and I also didn't find any references to known names like Arcadia, TVG2000 or whatsoever. Obviously Philips found another way to make people buy their chips by boosting books like these. Stefan 574 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 9:25pm Subject: Re: Arcadia programming: Is this the rosetta stone? stefanpiasecki > I have a short pvi2636 datasheet and the circuit diagram of the > elektor tv spielcomputer. > I would be interested if your book contains additional info. > Will you check this if I upload them to yahoo? > > Do you think a scan of the book can be reduced in size by OCR- software. > > Peter As long as not everybody wants one, I can copy the most significant parts of the book (or the book in whole) and send those photocopies to both you and Adam. This would probably be a better, easier and less time-consuming process than scanning everything in (I *hate* scanning). Just send me a mail with your postal-addresses... Stefan 575 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Jun 6, 2002 11:03pm Subject: 14 Arcadia text format manuals atrionfo arcadia_manuals.txt Arcadia 2001 Manuals - Text Format ---------------------------------- By Adam Trionfo I have retyped fourteen manuals for the Arcadia 2001 family. Two of the retyped manuals are for the same cartridge but for different systems. This seemed worthwhile to do once- just to show the differences between the two system manuals. If you compare this list of manuals against the master cartridge list (http://www.classicgaming.com/arcadia/texts/cart-nam.htm), you will find that most of the titles on this list are known by different names. I'm going to sort that out later (help in this area would be VERY appreciated). I am out of manuals to retype. If you have any that have not been retyped, please scan them and upload them to the discussion group. If you have a large number of manuals, but have no access to a scanner (and are willing to lend the manuals out), I'd like borrow them and then return them to you (Ward, can vouch for my trust worthiness). I am NOT looking for variations of manuals (i.e. I don't need all twelve versions of the "Alien Invaders" manual). Also, I only speak English, so I'm only looking for manuals in English (Emerson manuals are ideal). Here is the list of the titles that have been retyped so far. Titles with an asterisk ("*") are missing overlay information because those parts of the scans were not readable. These fourteen titles have been compressed and are included in one 35K zipped file called "arcadia_manuals.zip" in the Arcadia discussion group file section under the "Manuals - Text Format" folder (this document you are reading is part of that archive too). Title Manual for System -------------- ----------------- Alien Invader Palladium Alien Invaders Emerson Basketball Palladium * Battle Palladium Bowling Palladium Car Race Palladium Cat Trax Emerson Crazy Climber MPT-03 Horse Racing Palladium * Seabattle Palladium Soccer Palladium * Space Attack Emerson Space Mission Palladium Space Raiders Emerson End of document Revision 1.0 - June 6, 2002 576 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Jun 7, 2002 0:54am Subject: Info on 'TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor' atrionfo Info on "TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor" ------------------------------------------------------------ I have gathered some data on the book that Stefan just received, "TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor." Using library resources and the Internet, I have found some useful information. First though, of all the libraries connected to WorldCat, only one has the German book, and that's the U.S. Library of Congress (meaning, nope, I can't get it from the library). I could not find any references to an English translation of this book at all. Browse through the material I found, let me know if you have anything to add. Is item five the publisher of the English translation, or another company? 1) Complete information on "TV-Spielcomputer : spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor" TV-Spielcomputer : spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor / Paul Holmes 1982 German Book 264 p. : ill. ; 22 cm. Gangelt : Elektor, ISBN: 3921608260 : Database: WorldCat Ownership: Check the catalogs in your library. Libraries that Own Item: 1 More Like This: Search for versions with same title and author Title: TV-Spielcomputer : spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor / Author(s): Holmes, Paul. Publication: Gangelt : Elektor, Year: 1982 Description: 264 p. : p., ill. ;, 22 cm. Language: German Standard No: ISBN: 3921608260 :; LCCN: 83-134349 SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Computer games. Microprocessors. Class Descrpt: LC: GV1469.15; Dewey: 794.8/2 Other Titles: T.V.-Spielcomputer. Responsibility: P. Holmes. Document Type: Book Entry: 19850813 Update: 19940516 Accession No: OCLC: 12556715 2) Philip Gareth Williams's resume at: http://www.rottensod.freeserve.co.uk/rottensod/cv.htm 1978 - 1982 Technical Assistant to the Editor - Elektor Publishers Ltd., 10 Longport, Canterbury, Kent Responsible for editing magazine articles and press releases prior to publication. Designing and testing electronics projects for inclusion in all language editions of the magazine. Answering technical enquiries from the readership by letter and by telephone. This work required full knowledge of current micro-chip technology and covered every aspect of electronics including microprocessors and programming. I was also responsible for editing the English editions of six books related to microprocessor systems. 3) Amazon.com link to "TV-Spielcomputer : spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor" by Paul Holmes http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/3921608260/qid=1023372726/ sr=1-6/ref=sr_1_6/103-9178021-4506213 4) Another book by a Paul Holmes, but it's for the Sinclair; probably NOT the same guy. Search for "Holmes" on this page: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~jimg/yr02/yr02_73.htm 5) Is this the same company that published the English version of "TV-Spielcomputer : spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor?" http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/ Hope you find this useful. Adam 577 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Jun 7, 2002 1:16am Subject: Re: Info on 'TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor' stefanpiasecki Hi, next time I need a detective, I'll ask you first 9;)) Anyways, yes, 5) seems to be the publisher of this book. I contacted the seller of this book about the software that was available on tape. He believes he has dumped everything when he married ("Oh, no!!!") and needed space (what kind of wife did he get that needs so much space?) but he promised to have a second look. I also asked him if he ever built the machine and if it worked, but he didn't come back to me about this yet. Adam, if you have access to a fax machine, I could copy everything and fax it over. It can't be speedier than that, can it? Stefan 578 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Jun 7, 2002 5:04am Subject: Subject: Re: Info on 'TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor' atrionfo >> Hi, next time I need a detective, I'll ask you first 9;)) >> Ha! If I were a detective I would have the 2637 datasheet in my hand right now. When I get that, THEN you can call me first! >> Anyways, yes, 5) seems to be the publisher of this book. >> I'll email them and ask about it, but it they are anything like other companies out there, they usually have a memory like a goldfish. That is: 2 seconds. Ever hear the joke, "Did you know that a Goldfish only has a two second memory? Did you know that a Goldfish only has a two second memory? [and on and on]" >> I contacted the seller of this book about the software that was available on tape. He believes he has dumped everything when he married ("Oh, no!!!") and needed space (what kind of wife did he get that needs so much space?) but he promised to have a second look. >> Hey, I understand about space; I've battled it myself. Sometimes gaining just one centimeter of space is a small triumph! Centimeter by centimeter is the way to clear a room. Well, if you have a long time, anyway... >> I also asked him if he ever built the machine and if it worked, but he didn't come back to me about this yet. >> I'd be surprised to find out that he built it. It seems the people that bought these books usually never finished the project (if they started them at all). They are just interesting books to have. If you look at the current books that the publisher sells, you will find a book that is sort-of the equivalent of the 2650 book- this book lets you build a "matchbox" sized computer that loads an OS from ROM. Pretty much the same idea, only twenty years later it's using totally different technology. >> Adam, if you have access to a fax machine, I could copy everything and fax it over. It can't be speedier than that, can it? >> Well, I don't have a FAX machine, but I CAN set-up my computer to receive a FAX (though I've not done that before). I HAVE used my computer to send a Fax (many times, actually). However, this is an EXPENSIVE way to send a BOOK, or even a small part of a book. The long distance call would kill us. Besides I'm in no rush to get the info. I'm of the philosophy that the Arcadia 2001 has been around for twenty years, it can wait a couple of weeks. So, don't feel in a mad rush to get the info to me; it will take me some time to absorb it anyway. However, don't let me stop from rushing you; if you LIKE to rush, by all means, go ahead and RUSH! Adam 579 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Jun 7, 2002 9:28pm Subject: Sharing the Arcadia text manuals atrionfo Ward asked me in a personal email if it would be okay for him to post the Arcadia text manuals. "Of course," I told him. I didn't expect anyone to ask this question; I thought it was implied. Please, everyone, feel free to post the manuals anywhere and everywhere; that's what they're for. While you're at it, why not scan some manuals that are not retyped yet so that they can be typed up and posted. Adam 580 From: "gamenotover2002" Date: Sun Jun 9, 2002 1:47am Subject: New to this Group gamenotover2002 Hello Groupmembers, my name is yanni and i just joined the group. i hope i can support some stuff here (Box and Cardridge Scans and manuals) i own the following: (all in their originial boxes and manuals) Systems: german system Telefever with games Jump bug and Fusball. german system Schmid tvg 2000 (with waranty card) with following Games: Crazy Gobbler Space Attack RobotKiller SuperGobbler SpaceVultures Alien Invaders capture Soccer Escape Jungler Grand Slam tennis Astro invader Hobo german system hanimex hmg 2650 Alien Invaders 3D Boxing Leisure Vision system (No console just the boxed game) Red Clash cardridges without Box and Manual: Brain Quiz (hanimex) Cat Trax (Hanimex) R2DTank (Schmid tvg 2000) Space Raiders (Schmid tvg 2000) If the moderators of the group are interested in they can contact me. I have the equipment (Scanner and digicam) to post in the archiv if you tell me what. I didnt read all the psotings so excuse that i couldnt wait to post because i am so happy this group exists. Best wishes to all Members Yanni 581 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jun 9, 2002 2:09am Subject: Re: New to this Group commie_fan Hi Yanni. Welcome aboard. Right now, the main thing we are trying to work on are scans of the manuals. There have been postings about this subject, for the last week or so. Basically, we are looking for manuals in English, so that we can make an archive of re-typed manuals that can be downloaded. If you do scan things or take pictures of them, please do NOT use the "photos" section of these message boards to upload them. This is because the Yahoo! file system will not allow full, high-resolution images to be uploaded, so the photos section is all but worthless for our purposes. We also have a firm limit on how much we can upload into the "Files" section, so for right now, don't bother with box or cartridge scans, either. You may want to spend some time exploring the Files section, to see what we already have and where we put it. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "gamenotover2002" wrote: > Hello Groupmembers, > my name is yanni and i just joined the group. > i hope i can support some stuff here (Box and Cardridge Scans and > manuals) > > i own the following: > (all in their originial boxes and manuals) > > Systems: > german system Telefever with games > Jump bug and > Fusball. > > german system Schmid tvg 2000 (with waranty card) with following Games: > Crazy Gobbler > Space Attack > RobotKiller > SuperGobbler > SpaceVultures > Alien Invaders > capture > Soccer > Escape > Jungler > Grand Slam tennis > Astro invader > Hobo > > german system hanimex hmg 2650 > Alien Invaders > 3D Boxing > Leisure Vision system (No console just the boxed game) > Red Clash > > cardridges without Box and Manual: > Brain Quiz (hanimex) > Cat Trax (Hanimex) > R2DTank (Schmid tvg 2000) > Space Raiders (Schmid tvg 2000) > > > If the moderators of the group are interested in they can contact me. > I have the equipment (Scanner and digicam) to post in the archiv if > you tell me what. > I didnt read all the psotings so excuse that i couldnt wait to post > because i am so happy this group exists. > > Best wishes to all Members > Yanni 582 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Jun 10, 2002 0:53am Subject: Mothership - An Arcadia 2001 Program atrionfo Mothership - An Arcadia 2001 Program By Adam Trionfo - June 9, 2002 ------------------------------------ I have uploaded to the Arcadia discussion board the "Space Vultures" level I created that imitates the "Phoenix" mothership stage (I based it on scanned Arcadia screenshot from a catalog). The 27K file is called 'mothship.zip' and can be downloaded from here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_examples/Assembly_Source/ The short discription is given in the download area is: 'Mothership' - Program that displays a re-created screen of the fabled 'Phoenix' mothership from 'Space Vulture.' This compressed file contains the 2650 assembly source code, assembly listing, binary file and a few pdf files for easy printing. This is a great introduction to Arcadia programming." Here is a better explanation (it's included in the zip file as 'readme.txt'): It ['Mothership'] is a machine language program that I wrote that runs using the MESS Arcadia emulator or on a real Arcadia 2001 machine. It should work on a PAL machine, but I have no way to test this (I'd be quite interested to hear about this). When "mothship.bin" is run on a real Arcadia it sometimes comes up in 13-char mode instead of 26-char mode (so, basically, it looks weird). Turning the machine on and off again will fix the problem (this does NOT happen under MESS). It doesn't do this each time, and I'm not sure why it happens (it has something to do with the way I initialize the screen set-up, I'm sure. I would think it should happen every time- but it doesn't). I wanted to fix this quirk before I uploaded this machine language program, but it's been a couple of weeks since I finished this, and I know that the longer I wait, the less of a chance that there is that I will get back to this particular program. Besides I have my eyes set on writing another Arcadia program at the moment. 'Mothership' is contained in the compressed file called 'mothship.zip." The file, when decompressed, contains the following seven files: 1) mothship.asm - The "Mothership" 2650 assembly source file. You can assemble this with the VACS 2650 Cross Assembler. If you want to check out how the Arcadia works, and you need some example code, this is the best place to start. I have commented it well so that it can be followed (and understood) easily. To get the most out of this, you should print the 2650 CPU manual (it is available as a pdf file- but the manual is NOT part of this archive). 2) mothship.bin - This is the 576 byte Arcadia 'Mothership' program. You will notice that it is quite empty (mostly zeros at the end). That's because I made the screen setup routine as generic as possible- most of the program is screen data, not code. You can run this under MESS, or burn this onto an EPROM and use it on the real machine. I have NOT padded this file with zeros- you may want to do that before burning it to a 4K EPROM (note that I have had no troubles with MESS and unpadded files). 3) mothship.gif - This is a screen shot of 'Mothership' taken using MESS. The screen looks better on the real machine (the proportions are correct), but this gives you a good idea of what to expect when the program is run. 4) mothship-binary.pdf - This is a hex dump of the binary file. It shows all 576 bytes of the 'mothship.bin' file. 5) mothship-listing.pdf - This is the assembly output listing from the VACS 2650 Cross Assembler. For some reason many people ignore these assembly listing files, and look directly at the source code; don't fall into that trap- an assembly output file with no errors is FAR better than the source. That because it's the source AND the binary (plus other helpful cross-reference "stuff"); a listing shows the programmer what he wrote (the source), AND what the 2650 CPU "sees" when it is running the code. 6) mothship-source.pdf - This is the same file as 'mothship.asm,' but with page numbers (handy for printing). 7) readme.txt - This file (and explanation of 'Mothership' and a listing of the programs contained in the zip file). 'Mothership' isn't exciting (it's just a still screen), but it is a new Arcadia program, and that's pretty neat. Now if only there was some movement on the screen... I want to thank PeT for helping me get this program to use 26-char mode (and for the MESS emulation), Paul Robson for writing the original "technical information about the Emerson Arcadia 2001," Ward Shrake for finding out so much cool "stuff" about the Arcadia systems (and getting it all in one place and in a format that make sense- some feat!) and the Arcadia discussion group for opening my eyes to this cool system. Also, thanks to Signetics/UA LTD. or whoever made this system- it's neat-o; just wish there was some obtainable technical data available for it (specifically for the 2637 chip)-- hint, hint. 583 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Jun 10, 2002 5:16am Subject: Anyone have long Emerson commons to sell? commie_fan I am trying to get ahold of some cartridge cases that I can recycle, to make a few more multicarts. They have to be for the Emerson family of carts, and they have to be the long style. They do NOT have to work or have labels that look pretty. They do not have to be of any particular game, nor do they need boxes / instructions / whatever. As long as the plastic case itself is in good shape, that is all I care about. I try to pay $5 or less for any raw, recyclable cases I buy. Respond in private e-mail, please. Thanks. -- Ward Shrake -- ward.shrake@... 584 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Jun 11, 2002 1:21am Subject: MESS Debugger help atrionfo I have posted this MESS debugger question to the MESS forum, but I want to post it here too- maybe someone can help me answer this question (this is EXACTLY as I posted it to the MESS board): I am using the MESS debugger with the Arcadia (which uses a Signetics 2650 CPU). When I'm using the disassembler, the registers are setup correctly, that is R0, R1, etc., but the disassembled code is NOT 2650 source, it's Z80 code (I think). Is the 2650 fully supported in the debugger (I am using .561 of the MESS source)? I have used the OBSERVE S2650 switch, and it works, but it's what is already in use. Does anyone have experience in this area? Thanks. Adam 585 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Jun 11, 2002 1:26am Subject: MAME Debugger docs atrionfo I have typed the online MAME debugger docs. They can be found here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_tools/ The file is called "mamedbg.txt." You will find it useful- though I am kind of stalled until I get some actual 2650 mnemonic code from it (as I posted in my previous message). Right now I can use the debugger, but looking at the code means translating by hand, as the mnemonic code that the debugger gives me is inaccurate (it's not even 2650 opcodes). Adam 586 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Jun 11, 2002 2:08am Subject: Re: MESS Debugger help grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: > I am using the MESS debugger with the Arcadia (which uses a Signetics 2650 > CPU). When I'm using the disassembler, the registers are setup correctly, > that is R0, R1, etc., but the disassembled code is NOT 2650 source, it's Z80 > code (I think). > > Is the 2650 fully supported in the debugger (I am using .561 of the MESS > source)? I have used the OBSERVE S2650 switch, and it works, but it's what > is already in use. Juergen added z80 style mnemonics as feature for him. deactive his macro in src/cpu/s2650/2650dasm.c /* Set this to 1 to disassemble using Z80 style mnemonics */ //#define HJB 1 Peter 587 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Jun 11, 2002 3:27am Subject: Re: MESS Debugger help atrionfo >> Juergen added z80 style mnemonics as feature for him. deactive his macro in src/cpu/s2650/2650dasm.c /* Set this to 1 to disassemble using Z80 style mnemonics */ //#define HJB 1 >> Thank you, Peter, that is EXACTLY what I needed. I recompiled the source after that change and now the debugger works the way I would expect it to work. This is a BIG help. This will help me examine the "Crazy Gobbler" and "Space Vultures" code, as well as the stuff I am currently "experimenting" with. Adam 588 From: "lordkosh" Date: Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:19am Subject: Newbie lordkosh Just wanted to introduce myself quickly. I am not a programmer or good with working with hardware, but I do enjoy collecting early computers and game systems. I found an Arcadia 2001 at a garage sale with 8 games or so for $5. Unfortunately, it does not seem to be working. I get a white/gray creen with garbage on screen with any cartridge. Any ideas or known problems that would result in that? 589 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Jun 11, 2002 6:09am Subject: Re: Newbie stefanpiasecki working. I get a white/gray creen with garbage on screen with any cartridge. Any ideas or known problems that would result in that? >well, try to clean your carts connectors with a Q-tip and some alcoholic liquid. I often get this when starting up systems that weren't used for years. It may also be the case that either the cart or the system is just broken. In this case you should try to get another system as it's really worth collecting. Stefan 590 From: "lordkosh" Date: Wed Jun 12, 2002 4:46am Subject: Re: Newbie lordkosh I'll give it a shot. If not, I think I'll track down another one for purch= ase. I like the look of the case, and the history of this group of consoles= is quite interesting. Thanks for the help. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wro= te: > working. I get a white/gray creen with garbage on screen with any > cartridge. Any ideas or known problems that would result in that? > > >well, try to clean your carts connectors with a Q-tip and some > alcoholic liquid. I often get this when starting up systems that > weren't used for years. It may also be the case that either the cart > or the system is just broken. In this case you should try to get > another system as it's really worth collecting. > Stefan 591 From: "captwrong" Date: Fri Jun 21, 2002 4:44am Subject: Another Newbie captwrong I just got done reading through all the posts and thought I'd say hi. I don't own an Acradia yet, but I've been interested in the family since reading Ward's intro to the DPCG6. Really facinating discussion here. Don't know how much I'll be able to contribute, but count on me for cheering from the sidelines! Rob 592 From: "captwrong" Date: Fri Jun 21, 2002 9:34am Subject: Me ebay ID captwrong Wanted to add my ebay ID since I noticed you had a list. It's robg. (with the period on the end.) As I said, I don't have anything Arcadia but I plan on bidding on some stuff. I'll try not to step on any body's toes. :) R 593 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Jun 21, 2002 11:25pm Subject: Some 2650 manual scans atrionfo I scanned a supplement to the "Signetics 2650 Microprocessor" manual and will post that to this group sometimes over the next week. I shall NOT be scanning the two chapters from the 2650 manual called "2650 Assembler Language," and "2650 Simulator." These would be needed only for historical purposes, and they do not interest me. No one has asked for them, so I will not be doing this. Adam 594 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Jun 21, 2002 11:26pm Subject: Broken fingers? atrionfo So, does everyone have broken fingers? Not one other person typed in even one game manual. That's rather pathetic. Adam 595 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Jun 21, 2002 11:36pm Subject: Re: Another Newbie atrionfo >> I just got done reading through all the posts and thought I'd say hi. >> You're off to a great start. Most people skip the old posts and just start asking questions, as if they are the first people to come up with them (or are too lazy to read back-posts). I'm glad to see that you read the posts, they have a lot of good stuff in there. >> I don't own an Acradia yet >> I didn't have an Arcadia either, not until about a month ago. It was Ward's FAQ that pulled me in (and also my relationship with the DP Guide, to some extent). Ward, in fact, tried to warn me off... If you don't have one of Ward's multicarts, then get one soon! >> I've been interested in the family since reading Ward's intro to the DPCG6. >> Yes, he really fixed that section up. Wait until you read section seven of the Guide- it is FANTASTIC. >> Really facinating discussion here. >> Yes, there are some nice threads. Ward has a way of pulling people together and making them say "stuff." He's an inspiration. >> Don't know how much I'll be able to contribute, but count on me for cheering from the sidelines! >> Well, cheering okay, but it doesn't get anything done. When you do get an Arcadia- try typing in a couple of manuals- there is a list of what needs to be done. Do you live in the U.S., and thus will probably be buying an Emerson, or do you live elsewhere and will be looking for a PAL unit? Adam 596 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Jun 22, 2002 3:22am Subject: Interviews with classic video game programmers commie_fan Some weeks ago, when I was working on the upcoming write-up for the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" version seven, I mentioned that Ed Averett had some influence on the Arcadia 2001's console design, although not in any of the ways you would have thought. At the time, the only way to see those interviews was to pay for them. Now, the person that did the interviews has posted them to this web site, so anyone can access them for free: http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon/index.html I had previously quoted a few passages, here and there. The whole of it makes a lot of sense... assuming you have kept up with all the other recent facts and findings, by reading all of the postings that are on this web site / message board. (Since they're all recorded here on these message boards, I see no reason to repeat any of it.) Anyway, there is a LOT of good info there. I've also added the link into the bookmarks section, under "reference" materials heading. (Thanks to Adam Trionfo and Chris Federico for telling me that the interviews were actually online, now. I was told they would be, but not exactly when.) -- Ward Shrake -- 597 From: "captwrong" Date: Sun Jun 23, 2002 2:25am Subject: Re: Another Newbie captwrong --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > >> > Don't know how much I'll be able to contribute, but count on me for cheering > from the sidelines! > >> > > Well, cheering okay, but it doesn't get anything done. When you do get an > Arcadia- try typing in a couple of manuals- there is a list of what needs to > be done. > > Do you live in the U.S., and thus will probably be buying an Emerson, or do > you live elsewhere and will be looking for a PAL unit? > > Adam > Yeah, I'm from the US. I'm looking for an Emerson, or compatable. I didn't mean to sound like I wouldn't be able to help out. In fact, I'd be more than happy to. When I get some stuff, I'd be glad to type in manuals or what have you. Really, if there's anything I can do, I'd be happy to do it. Right now I don't have much money or resources avaliable, but I'll do what I can. R 598 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Jun 23, 2002 6:44am Subject: Re: Another Newbie atrionfo >> Yeah, I'm from the US. I'm looking for an Emerson, or compatable. >> Well, that's good. Those come up on ebay often enough. I was able to pick mine up on ebay with five carts (with shipping) for about $35. >> I didn't mean to sound like I wouldn't be able to help out. In fact, I'd be more than happy to. >> Oh, you've gone and done it now... >> When I get some stuff, I'd be glad to type in manuals or what have you. >> Yes, the manuals are of primary concern. It's not enough that the ROMs are available for the emulator (as images) or for the console (via the multicart). If the games are not understood, how can they be played? There must be a lot of games out there that no one is playing- or at least, no one is enjoying. >> I'll do what I can. >> Do you have programming experience? Adam 599 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Jun 23, 2002 1:57pm Subject: Re: Broken fingers? slapdash26 At 6:26 AM -0700 6/21/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: >So, does everyone have broken fingers? Not one other person typed in even >one game manual. That's rather pathetic. I'll make a general apology... I haven't been able to get to work on the next issue of 2600 Connection, let alone any other hobby projects. That's not a good excuse, but that's the one I'm sticking to. Heck, I still had an email about your call for help on the Bally instructions project for MONTHS after you'd posted it, since I still hoped I could help at some point. Haven't yet. Sorry... :-( -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 600 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Jun 23, 2002 9:49pm Subject: Re: Broken fingers? atrionfo >> >So, does everyone have broken fingers? Not one other person typed >in even one game manual. That's rather pathetic. I'll make a general apology... I haven't been able to get to work on the next issue of 2600 Connection, let alone any other hobby projects. That's not a good excuse, but that's the one I'm sticking to. Heck, I still had an email about your call for help on the Bally instructions project for MONTHS after you'd posted it, since I still hoped I could help at some point. Haven't yet. Sorry... :-( >> Russ, I have to ask you a down-to-earth question: Why do you collect for so many systems? Why do you spread yourself so THIN? Why not just concentrate on the 2600 (which SEEMS to be your fave), or another system you like (or two, or manybe three); why do you want one of EVERYTHING (or, so it seems)? Is it just a compulsion that you can't control, or is it something else? The more you collect, the less you really have time to use. With all the stuff you have, how do you find the time to even TRY everything, let alone USE everything (for that matter, how do you FIND anything your looking for?). Adam 601 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:33am Subject: Re: Broken fingers? commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > Russ, I have to ask you a > down-to-earth question: Why do > you collect for so many systems? > Why do you spread yourself so THIN? > Why not just concentrate on the 2600 > (which SEEMS to be your fave), or > another system you like (or two, or > manybe three); why do you want one > of EVERYTHING (or, so it seems)? > Is it just a compulsion that you > can't control, or is it something > else? The more you collect, the less > you really have time to use. With all > the stuff you have, how do you find > the time to even TRY everything, let > alone USE everything (for that matter, > how do you FIND anything your looking > for?). > > Adam This is something that Adam and I are both curious about. We're not picking on you, Russ, so much as taking advantage of an opportunity. Personally, I would also welcome replies from any others who consider themselves to be "collectors" and who spend a great deal of their time and money on collecting video game items, especially if they almost never find time to play the games they find. -- Ward Shrake -- 602 From: "oboissea" Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 2:57am Subject: re: broken fingers oboissea I have the following manuals: - Auto Race - Robot Killer - 3D Bowling - Alien Invader I can scan them, but there are all in french and I will have not the time to translate them nor to type them... I'm really too busy with www.old-computers.com. Do you still want me to scan them? --- Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 603 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Jun 24, 2002 4:37am Subject: Re: Broken fingers? slapdash26 commie_fan wrote: > "Adam Trionfo" wrote: >> Russ, I have to ask you a >> down-to-earth question: Why do >> you collect for so many systems? >> Why do you spread yourself so THIN? >> Why not just concentrate on the 2600 >> (which SEEMS to be your fave), or >> another system you like (or two, or >> manybe three); why do you want one >> of EVERYTHING (or, so it seems)? >> Is it just a compulsion that you >> can't control, or is it something >> else? The more you collect, the less >> you really have time to use. With all >> the stuff you have, how do you find >> the time to even TRY everything, let >> alone USE everything (for that matter, >> how do you FIND anything your looking >> for?). >This is something that Adam and I are both curious about. We're not >picking on you, Russ, so much as taking advantage of an opportunity. >Personally, I would also welcome replies from any others who consider >themselves to be "collectors" and who spend a great deal of their >time and money on collecting video game items, especially if they >almost never find time to play the games they find. Adam probably hit it on the head when he used the term "compulsion". Let's face it, collecting is a narrow from of obsessive/compulsive behavior, right? And as to why I don't limit myself, well there are too many cool things out there! But to be fair, I have limited myself somewhat to the 2600 already -- I edit a newsletter about it, and manage a mailing list about programming for it, but don't do as much for other systems. And if I could only buy a couple of homebrews out of a bunch, I'd tend to go with the 2600 ones first. But this is not to say I like limiting myself in any regard. I have interests outside of videogaming entirely, and spend time (when I can) on that as well. But there isn't enough time to do all of it the way I'd like... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 604 From: "captwrong" Date: Wed Jun 26, 2002 5:24am Subject: Re: Another Newbie captwrong --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > > Do you have programming experience? > My programming expirence stops somewhere in the mid 1980's writing simple programs in BASIC on Apple II and CoCo. It's been years and years since I've done anything more than HTML. That's why I said I don't know how much I'll be able to help out here. My techinal background is very limited. I am going to school for some of this stuff, however. It's a "New Media" program but I think I'm going to be picking up a certificate in Computer Science. Really, I don't know what I want to do, but the programming stuff still interests me and I kind of wish I'd kept at it when I was younger. That probably answers your question and then some. :) R 605 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Wed Jun 26, 2002 4:59pm Subject: To PeT and Atrionfo stefanpiasecki Hi guys, sorry, due to a lot of work in my normal job I wasn't able to copy the book and the manuals as promised, yet. But this is not forgotten. We are moving offices today, so on Monday at the latest I will do it or I will have somebody else copy the stuff. Again, sorry. Stefan 606 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 4:18am Subject: Re: To PeT and Atrionfo atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> sorry, due to a lot of work in my normal job I wasn't able to copy the book and the manuals as promised, yet. But this is not forgotten. We are moving offices today, so on Monday at the latest I will do it or I will have somebody else copy the stuff. Again, sorry. >> The system has been waiting a LONG time for anyone to take a look at it. It can wait a few months more. It can probably outwait all of us... Adam 607 From: "slydc" Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 6:36am Subject: Compulsion (was Re: Broken fingers?) slydc I understand Russ compulsion since i'm more crazier than Russ when it comes to collecting many game systems. I don't know how many game systems Russ have in his collection, but i know he has many systems. As for me, i collect game systems, that's my priority. After that, it's getting some good games for any of them. I have now 217 games systems in my collection and i don't count any dedicated Pongs or old computers. Like Russ said, there's too many great things out there and i have to try them out to see if i like it or not. You may call me a compulsive, obsessed, damn crazy ...whatever ...but that's my way of collecting. Consoles first, then games afterwards. If you want to talk to a very compulsive collector, talk to David Winter. He's so obcessed with dedicated Pongs that he spends more money i can do in one year in four months alone! As for me or Russ, we collect for the pleasure of it and when our finances permits it. --- Sly DC --- 608 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Jun 29, 2002 1:51pm Subject: Re: Compulsion (was Re: Broken fingers?) slapdash26 At 8:36 PM +0000 6/28/02, slydc wrote: >I understand Russ compulsion since i'm more crazier than Russ when it >comes to collecting many game systems. I don't know how many game >systems Russ have in his collection, but i know he has many systems. *I* don't know how many systems I have either. :-) >If you want to talk to a very compulsive collector, talk to David >Winter. He's so obcessed with dedicated Pongs that he spends more >money i can do in one year in four months alone! Yeah, I've been outbid by David a few times now. >As for me or Russ, we collect for the pleasure of it and when our >finances permits it. And sometimes even when they don't, which is why the term "compulsion" is appropriate. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 609 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Jul 1, 2002 5:21pm Subject: The disappearance of Ward's web sites commie_fan Hi all. Earlier today, I deleted all of the content that used to be hosted on the servers at "ClassicGaming.com". This was intentional. I no longer wish to be associated with that organization, in large part because of what I feel personally is the morale-killing and unforgivably unsympathetic attitudes expressed by the current editor of "ClassicGaming.com". We all have opinions, and we are all entitled to them. I am not going to jump up on my soapbox, and try to convert anyone to my point of view. I will simply point towards this URL: http://www.forumplanet.com/classicgaming/topic.asp?fid=1441&tid=297047 ... and say that if anyone cares to find out more about this, that's where the info is, at present. Beyond that, I prefer to simply close the subject, and move on with my life, with certain adjustments made. I do not know where or when I will be re-posting my web site(s). It will go back up, at some point. It is admittedly not a huge priority for me, and I will need to edit out all of the annoying ads and such, before I will be ready to upload it to its new home. (Most likely, on my personal ISP's servers, as opposed to being hosted on some gaming organization.) I figure it could be two to eight weeks before it will be ready to be re-opened, but that's just a rough ballpark figure. -- Ward Shrake -- 610 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Jul 2, 2002 4:02pm Subject: Re: The disappearance of Ward's web sites commie_fan Well, the delay won't be as bad as I thought. Joe Santulli, my editor for versions 6 and 7 of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" has given my Arcadia 2001 and Commodore VIC-20 web sites a new home. I am already beginning the uploading process, with the Arcadia site going back online, first. I hope to have it up and running by week's end. All's well that ends well, as they say? -- Ward Shrake -- 611 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 0:15am Subject: Re: The disappearance of Ward's web sites atrionfo >> Well, the delay won't be as bad as I thought. >> Good. Two months isn't a long time, but one or two weeks is even shorter- and that's good! >> Joe Santulli, my editor for versions 6 and 7 of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" has given my Arcadia 2001 and Commodore VIC-20 web sites a new home. >> Thank you, Joe, for providing a new home for Internet's best Arcadia site. >> I am already beginning the uploading process, with the Arcadia site going back online, first. I hope to have it up and running by week's end. >> When it's done, is this going to be a "static?" Sort of a "final" version of the FAQ plus some extras? Adam 612 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 3:37am Subject: Re: The disappearance of Ward's web sites commie_fan OK, here's some more news on my web site move. Actually, if you guys want to see the new site, on a "sneak peek" basis, here it is... http://www.digitpress.com/the_digs/arcadia/index.htm I hope to have it up and running soon, as I mentioned before. It is mostly there now, but I still want to do a number of tweaks to it. As to how often I will update it, only time will tell. It certainly will not be a "daily update" kind of site, but I bet it gets more updates than the Arcadia section used to get, on DP's main site. To my way of thinking, even four updates a year would be good, given the incredibly obscure nature of this console group, and so on. But I'm not going to commit to anything, small or large, in advance. I plan to just do site updates as the "spirit moves me" and time permits. -- Ward Shrake -- 613 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Jul 3, 2002 7:47am Subject: Re: The disappearance of Ward's web sites commie_fan Latest news on the upgrade and/or moving situation: Joe over at DP plans to go "live" with the site, this Thursday. I am doing what I can, between now and then, to get it all ready. It is 90% ready now, with not too many more nit-picky things to update, etc. So it looks like the site only "disappeared" for half a week. :-) Spread the word, if you would, to anyone else that is not aware of what happened to my old sites, formerly hosted on "ClassicGaming.com". The new address is in the bookmarks section now, if anyone wants to preview (or debug) the site-in-progress. -- Ward Shrake -- 614 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Jul 4, 2002 1:41am Subject: Re: The disappearance of Ward's web sites atrionfo Ward - I took the time to click on most (all?) of the links on the "new" Arcadia site. I didn't read anything (other than the news); I just wanted to see how it looked. I looks good. The more I think about it, the better it sounds that the site is at at the Digital Press site. Now there is even more stuff all in one place. Good job, man. (like YOU could do a bad job?). Adam 615 From: "commie_fan" Date: Thu Jul 4, 2002 8:51am Subject: Another manual scanned in commie_fan I just got in "Tanks A Lot" and scanned in the manual. It is up in the files area, if anyone wants to print themselves out a copy or whatever. (Adam is busy for the forseeable, and won't be able to do much like typing stuff in, I would not imagine.) -- Ward Shrake -- 616 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Jul 5, 2002 8:24am Subject: The re-appearance of Ward's web site commie_fan Just so you guys all know, Ward's web site is now "live" over at its new web home, over at Digital Press. -- Ward Shrake -- 617 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jul 6, 2002 0:08am Subject: The re-appearance of Ward's web site atrionfo Ward wrote: >> Just so you guys all know, Ward's web site is now "live" over at its new web home, over at Digital Press. >> It looks like you just pulled a "ward!" This has been the fastest six weeks of my life! Cool. First the Guide, then the site move. Hey, it's time to RELAX. Adam 618 From: "slydc" Date: Sat Jul 6, 2002 2:13pm Subject: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! slydc A friend of mine told me that they were an Bandai Arcadia with all 19 games released for it and everything complete. Here's the URL and translated (nott 100% accurate mind you): http://translation.lycos.co.jp/web/result.html?url=http%3A%2F% 2Fpage2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction%2Fb22290795&u0=3 But there's 2 big problem: first the starting price!! 88,000 yens! Which means about 900$ US. And the second problem is the seller doesn't ship internationally. Well, go grab the pictures, at least it doesn't cost anything!! --- Sly DC --- 619 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sun Jul 7, 2002 11:25pm Subject: Re: To PeT and Atrionfo stefanpiasecki > The system has been waiting a LONG time for anyone to take a look at it. It > can wait a few months more. It can probably outwait all of us... > > Adam Hi, things are getting back to normal. Still many many things need to be done in my real life but at least I now had time to read the latest posts. Wasn't even able to do this. Stefan 620 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu Jul 11, 2002 0:03pm Subject: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! slapdash26 At 4:13 AM +0000 7/6/02, slydc wrote: >A friend of mine told me that they were an Bandai Arcadia with all 19 >games released for it and everything complete. > >Here's the URL and translated (nott 100% accurate mind you): > >http://translation.lycos.co.jp/web/result.html?url=http%3A%2F% >2Fpage2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction%2Fb22290795&u0=3 > >But there's 2 big problem: first the starting price!! 88,000 yens! >Which means about 900$ US. And the second problem is the seller >doesn't ship internationally. I was actually looking into that set, but the seller definitely won't ship overseas. I suppose that's good though, as I didn't really want to spend that much money. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 621 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 4:56am Subject: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! atrionfo >http://translation.lycos.co.jp/web/result.html?url=http%3A%2F% >2Fpage2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction%2Fb22290795&u0=3 > >But there's 2 big problem: first the starting price!! 88,000 yens! >Which means about 900$ US. And the second problem is the seller >doesn't ship internationally. Well, just from the box you can tell the bandai Arcadia is WAY better than the Arcadia 2001 released here is America! I mean, come on, look at those kids on the box; they are having as much fun as the kids in ATARI commercials! Those exclusive Bandai games must obviously be the best games for the system... Adam 622 From: "slydc" Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 6:04am Subject: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! slydc Hey Adam (and everyone), Go here to check out pics of Dr.Slump: http://translation.lycos.co.jp/web/result.html?wb_url=http%3A%2F% 2Fpage2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction% 2Fb25106706&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2&wb_color=006600 And pics of Doraemon: http://translation.lycos.co.jp/web/result.html?wb_url=http%3A%2F% 2Fpage2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction% 2Fb25106775&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2&wb_color=006600 And again...sellers won't ship overseas....SIGH!!!! --- Sly DC --- 623 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 7:07am Subject: RE: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! tempest_2084 Is it just me or does Doraemon look a bit like Route 16? Tempest -----Original Message----- From: slydc [mailto:sylvaindc@...] Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 4:05 PM To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! Hey Adam (and everyone), Go here to check out pics of Dr.Slump: http://translation.lycos.co.jp/web/result.html?wb_url=http%3A%2F% 2Fpage2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction% 2Fb25106706&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2&wb_color=006600 And pics of Doraemon: http://translation.lycos.co.jp/web/result.html?wb_url=http%3A%2F% 2Fpage2.auctions.yahoo.co.jp%2Fjp%2Fauction% 2Fb25106775&wb_lp=JAEN&wb_dis=2&wb_color=006600 And again...sellers won't ship overseas....SIGH!!!! --- Sly DC --- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 624 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Jul 13, 2002 9:05am Subject: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! slapdash26 At 8:04 PM +0000 7/12/02, slydc wrote: >Go here to check out pics of Dr.Slump: [...] >And pics of Doraemon: [...] > >And again...sellers won't ship overseas....SIGH!!!! Ah, it's not so bad -- I already have THOSE two. :-) Now, if I could only find the time to dig them out and send to Ward. At 5:07 PM -0400 7/12/02, Matt Reichert wrote: >Is it just me or does Doraemon look a bit like Route 16? A little, but I think it's a unique title; haven't tried it out yet, mind you. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 625 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 0:52am Subject: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! atrionfo Russ Perry Jr. wrote: >> Ah, it's not so bad -- I already have THOSE two. :-) Now, if I could only find the time to dig them out and send to Ward. [...] haven't tried it out yet, mind you. >> You keep buying more STUFF. If you havn't used, or even LOOKED at the stuff you have bought already, then why do you keep buying MORE? Sit back and check out whatcha got. Now that Bob Colbert has written the program to archive the Astrocade tapes, that's what I'm doing over on the Bally Alley discussion group (that is, going through my STUFF). I don't think I've ever fallen behind quite like you though... you need ten lifetimes to catch up! Adam 626 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:08pm Subject: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > Is it just me or does Doraemon > look a bit like Route 16? > > Tempest Tsk, tsk... how soon they forget! Quoting my write-up for the upcoming "Digital Press Collectors Guide" version seven, which I posted on the net for you guys to proof-read back before the guide's publishing deadline: [quote on] Doraeomon (Bandai) Confirmed. #52. One of the few exclusives; only Bandai sold this particular title, and it was not released outside the Emerson family of carts. Game looks much like it was based on the core routines of "Route 16" but with modified graphics, etc. The game is based on Japanese anime characters, per Robert Worne. The main character in this game is a cat named "Doraemon" which fears mice, due to having its ears bitten off by a mouse in the past. [quote off] But yeah, good call; it definitely looks a lot like it. I saw the game played in person, at the SC3 meeting in March, and may have said something on the boards then, about it. But it is still unarchived. If and when Russ digs it and any others he has out of wherever he keeps such things, and sends them to me on an archiving loan, my ROM burner will be waiting to read them in. -- Ward Shrake -- 627 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:32pm Subject: Multi-cart question: stop at 50 total? commie_fan I have a question for the group. I want a realistic, objective, non- wishful-thinking answer, so please take time to think any reply over, before you post. (I don't want to have to embarrass anyone for not being able to follow simple directions, if they give me exactly what I tell them NOT to give me. So please... let's all play nice.) The question is simple: is there any reason I should make more than fifty (50) multi-carts for the Arcadia 2001 console group? I can't see a single, solitary, self-serving reason to do it. Can you guys? For those that didn't already know: I make the one-and-only multi- cart for the Arcadia 2001 console group. It includes carts you cannot play on the Arcadia directly -- the Palladium and MPT-03 and Ormatu family games -- as well as every cart ever made for the Emerson family of carts. (That has been archived to date, that is; but that is still the majority of Emerson carts made, both US and non-US.) To date, twenty (20) have been made and sold to the gaming public. I have one for my own personal uses, and there are three (3) more that are ready to go right now (except they don't have printed labels on them, thanks to my printer dying on me). That's 24 total carts so far, or roughly half the amount I'm considering cutting it off at. Keep in mind that these have been available for almost a full year now, and this is all the proven global demand there is for this item. Each one of these things costs me a day out of my life, to make, as they are 100% made by hand. (That's 100%, not 40%; circuit boards and all.) They are not any fun to make; they're simply a lot of work. So I have no "it is fun" motivation to continue forever. Nor am I making anything like a sane hourly wage for my time; I'd be better off going and getting a job at any decent fast food restaurant, dollar-per-hour. The simple reality is, I lost interest a long time ago. I'd have quit making them already, if I wasn't in desperate enough financial waters to actually consider giving it one last go, for the upcoming CGE. To be realistic, I could cut it off arbitarily at half that number, but I can find enough motivation to crank out 50 carts. Maybe. But 100? I just have no interest in doing that, considering the heavy workload, the low demand, and my desire to spend the days of my life well. I don't want to belabor this, so I'll just say this... Jedi mind tricks only work on the weak-minded. I am not among that group, so leave all the con-jobs and wishful thinking out of your reasons that I should make more than 50 total carts. If there is no good reason that going over 50 will benefit me in a non-fantasy-world way, then I'm going to simplify my life, and just announce a run of only 50. -- Ward Shrake -- 628 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:32pm Subject: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! slapdash26 At 7:52 AM -0700 7/13/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: >Russ Perry Jr. wrote: >> [...] haven't tried it out yet, mind you. >You keep buying more STUFF. If you havn't used, or even LOOKED at the stuff >you have bought already, then why do you keep buying MORE? Because some of this stuff won't be available later, if and when I do have more time. And some of the stuff I'm not trying out is just plain buried right now, so even if I had the time, I'd spend a lot of it just digging stuff out. When I do find time, I tend to try things out that aren't as hard to dig out and set up. And then there's the whole "compulsion" thing we've already discussed... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 629 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 3:38pm Subject: Re: Multi-cart question: stop at 50 total? slapdash26 At 5:32 AM +0000 7/14/02, commie_fan wrote: >The question is simple: is there any reason I should make more than >fifty (50) multi-carts for the Arcadia 2001 console group? I suppose not. If you've only sold half of those, and it's no longer fun, there's no reason to go any higher than 50. One could argue that there's no point on making ANY more, except possibly for CGE as you mentioned. On the other hand, there's no reason you need to cut it off at a nice round number either. See how many you can make before CGE, sell them there, and that's it? Or take orders there and make as many as people pay for? Who knows if you end at 30, 50, or 82 either way. But, it's your call, and I can't think of any good reason to push yourself past 50. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 630 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 4:33pm Subject: Compulsion versus life changes commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 7:52 AM -0700 7/13/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: > >Russ Perry Jr. wrote: > >> [...] haven't tried it out yet, mind you. > > > >You keep buying more STUFF. If you > >havn't used, or even LOOKED at the stuff > >you have bought already, then why do you > > keep buying MORE? > > > Because some of this stuff won't be available > later, if and when I do have more time. > > And some of the stuff I'm not trying out is > just plain buried right now, so even if I had > the time, I'd spend a lot of it just digging > stuff out. When I do find time, I tend to try > things out that aren't as hard to dig out and > set up. > > And then there's the whole "compulsion" thing > we've already discussed... WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! WARNING! Do NOT continue reading this if you do not want to hear anything negative said about this hobby, in regards to compulsion, etc.! Really. I mean it. I do not want to hurt anyone's feelings or rob them of enjoyment from their hobbies. That would be cruel and pointless (which is something I detest in others) so feel free to stop reading, and just ignore this next stuff if you're sensitive. You have been warned! OK.... I won't lie about how I feel about gaming in general, right now, and collecting in particular. It is just one more old habit I'm asking myself if it would be in my best interests to break? The fall-out from last August's CGE homebrew editorial debacle, and the Usenet homebrew bashing that went on last July, weigh heavily on my mind to this day. Little by little, my past interest is just fading away. I am not doing anything to MAKE it go away; it just IS going away. I am asking myself many very hard questions, lately. I want to know just how many of the things that I do are really conscious, rational choices, and just how many are simply pure, unthinking compulsions. I only have one life. I don't want to piss it away frivolously. I still like old games, but that does not necessarily mean that I need to be involved on a daily basis in the social end of this hobby, nor does it mean that I need to try to be a content provider for others. I like writing, but there are many other subjects out there. One of the hardest things I've ever had to do, was go through a very good friend's belongings on behalf of his family, after he died in his fourties. I had gotten him started on Commodore 64 stuff some years before, and he had a reasonable (disk) collection of games he liked to play, and utility-type programs he found to be useful. To guys like us, stuff like that is good, valuable stuff. To his family, it was some useless crap they realized none of them would ever use. So they gave it to me, pretty much whether I wanted it or not. And I am still sorting through all of that kind of stuff, years later. It added to the stuff I dragged into my apartment on my own, and things that other well-meaning people decided to give me over the years. You likely don't want to know how many trips I made to the dumpster recently, dumping stuff I no longer want, in preparation for an upcoming move. (And don't ask what went; stuff I no longer wanted is answer enough. You ultra-obsessive types would not want to hear it! Take solace in the idea I sold my "great" gaming stuff, long ago.) I'll be damned if I want my family to have to wade through rooms full of random junk, like I had to do, in a seemingly vain attempt to come up with anything that the average person on the street would not hesitate to call "valuable". In my friend's case, it clogged up the upper part of his Aunt's house for two years, before I could afford to go to their state, to help them sort through all of his "stuff". They had no idea what any of it was, and it fell on me to sort it out for them. That's a hell of a miserable way to spend two weeks, folks! I tend to look at the stuff I own, now, not just as "look at all my stuff" but from the perspective of a totally disinterested stranger, as well. I am conscious, or try to be conscious, of just how little value most "mainstream" people would place on the things I own. The problem is this... I am finding out that I don't miss the stuff I threw out or gave away. All my recent trips to the dumpster, has not done anything but give me a huge sense of relief, in terms of how my apartment looks. The more I get rid of, the happier I seem to be. I am getting to the end of it, and it is getting harder and harder to find things that I can get rid of without a moment's thought. A strange and unexpected thing happened; the more I do all this, the more the signal-to-noise ratio goes up, and I see almost NOTHING but the things I really, really like around me. No noise. That is making me feel a whole lot better about myself, my present, and my future. I plan to make my new place much different than any I've had before. Hell, there are times I find myself thinking about how people like Keanu Reeves claim to live... technically homeless, living out of a suitcase. I'm not quite that way, by any means, but from time to time that idea appeals to me. Something sorta Zen and calming about it? Just comments... nothing more. You don't have to agree with them. But don't be surprised if I ask if someone else wants to take over the ownership of this message board, before the year is out. I just don't see myself doing most of this stuff, a year from now? I know I have been saying stuff like that "forever," but I think I am closer to understanding my former compulsions, and with that comes change. And as I find myself getting happier, I welcome further changes. -- Ward Shrake -- 631 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:03pm Subject: Re: Multi-cart question: stop at 50 total? commie_fan The arbitrary cut-off number does have a purpose; I obtain closure. If I say "there will only be 50 of these ever made" that reduces the time period I have to deal with all this, by speeding up indecisive potential customers. They have to "sh*t or get off the pot," so to speak. I can sell more of these carts during CGE by saying "only 50" openly. But if I say "these will be available forever" then there is no rush to obtain them, in their minds. Which may actually hurt them in the long run, when my motivation just comes to an unplanned end, and I decide one random day that whatever I've made, is "it". If I acknowledge the reality that a lot of things are changing in my life, and that I can't predict when the "I quit" day will come, that gets more people a cart before the time-period window of opportunity closes. I want to make them now; that makes this the time for buying. That's yet another thing that nimrod, Marty "Retro Rogue" Goldberg failed to understand, when he wrote his infamous editorial, bashing homebrew cart-makers for not making an unlimited supply of carts... sooner or later, every person has had their fill of making an item, just as you get sick of eating the same meal all the time, or of any number of real-life things that get to be overly repetitive in time. The reality is, there are only so many paintings in an artist, so many stories in a writer, so many lovers in a lifetime, so many days in each person's life. Everything has a limit, and you never know in advance how many of something there will be. Better to acknowledge that reality openly, than to deceive myself about it. If others would rather delude themselves than accept that, that's their prerogative. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 5:32 AM +0000 7/14/02, commie_fan wrote: > >The question is simple: is there any reason I should make more than > >fifty (50) multi-carts for the Arcadia 2001 console group? > > I suppose not. If you've only sold half of those, and it's no longer > fun, there's no reason to go any higher than 50. One could argue that > there's no point on making ANY more, except possibly for CGE as you > mentioned. > > On the other hand, there's no reason you need to cut it off at a nice > round number either. See how many you can make before CGE, sell them > there, and that's it? Or take orders there and make as many as people > pay for? Who knows if you end at 30, 50, or 82 either way. > > But, it's your call, and I can't think of any good reason to push > yourself past 50. > -- > //*================================================================+ + > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// 632 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:05pm Subject: Re: Multi-cart question: stop at 50 total? slapdash26 At 7:03 AM +0000 7/14/02, commie_fan wrote: >The arbitrary cut-off number does have a purpose; I obtain closure. > >If I say "there will only be 50 of these ever made" that reduces the >time period I have to deal with all this, by speeding up indecisive >potential customers. They have to "sh*t or get off the pot," so to >speak. Yeah, I get you, but I mean... Even 50 is a bit arbitrary. You could just say "I'll only make enough for CGE", and that's it, whether it's 50, or 37, or whatever. If there's demand there and you run out of carts you can decide to take "preorders" and make them when you get home. Or not. And think, if you say there'll only be 50, and you sell, say, 39 in total by the end of CGE, do you want people saying "I know you didn't sell out at CGE, and I'd like one now" months in the future? You might just use CGE as a cutoff with no actual number in mind. That's what I meant... The trick is making enough for the show -- not too many, or you'll be sick of them even more. :-) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 633 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Jul 14, 2002 5:33pm Subject: Re: Multi-cart question: stop at 50 total? commie_fan I hear what you're saying, Russ, but my idea or sense of closure apparently works differently than yours. And there is a semantic difference to what we're saying, as well. I am implying "NOT MORE THAN" and you're hearing a specific number, as if I did not have the option to make LESS than that arbitrary number. For me, if I say "no more than fifty will ever be made," then I can see the end of the tunnel. I know exactly where I am, and the end is. Every cart I make, gets me one cart closer to that last-ever cart. It is precisely the "not knowing" that adds unwanted stress in my life. I do not plan to try to make enough carts to HAVE all 50 made in time for CGE 2002. For one thing, I can't afford that many raw parts, and at a day each per cart, there is not enough time left between now and CGE to make it happen. Don't forget, I'm making new Bally carts, too. At this point, I plan to just make what I find the time and energy and motivation to make, and to see if there are any orders beyond that point, either during or after the show. If sales drop off at some point before 50, despite my having pushed hard to get people to realize the window of opportunity will close at some unknown point, then I stop then and whatever number is made, is the final number. It is a lot easier to get motivated about making three of something, than it is to make thirty of something, hence thinking 50 sounds good as a round number to aim for. Beyond that, I could be chasing five sales for ten years, and I'd much rather simply have solid closure. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 7:03 AM +0000 7/14/02, commie_fan wrote: > >The arbitrary cut-off number does have a purpose; I obtain closure. > > > >If I say "there will only be 50 of these ever made" that reduces the > >time period I have to deal with all this, by speeding up indecisive > >potential customers. They have to "sh*t or get off the pot," so to > >speak. > > Yeah, I get you, but I mean... Even 50 is a bit arbitrary. You could > just say "I'll only make enough for CGE", and that's it, whether it's > 50, or 37, or whatever. If there's demand there and you run out of > carts you can decide to take "preorders" and make them when you get > home. Or not. > > And think, if you say there'll only be 50, and you sell, say, 39 in > total by the end of CGE, do you want people saying "I know you didn't > sell out at CGE, and I'd like one now" months in the future? You > might just use CGE as a cutoff with no actual number in mind. > > That's what I meant... The trick is making enough for the show -- > not too many, or you'll be sick of them even more. :-) > -- > //*================================================================+ + > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// 634 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 1:07am Subject: Multi-cart question: stop at 50 total? atrionfo I do see the point that Russ is making. Why not set a number (50) and a date. Like this: carts_cold = 29 ; Current carts sold last_day_of_sales = 09312002 ; September 31, 2002 if current_date > last_day_of_sales print "Sorry, I didn't reach 50 carts sold, but that's it folks!" else if carts_sold = 50 print "I sold fifty carts, that's it; I'm done!" else print "I'm still selling carts!" end if Better yet, Ward, since you are not BASIC you can do ANYTHING you want. You can even disregard this IF statement and stop making multicarts today. Oh, and if there is a logic error in my IF statement, then I blame it on code never running right the first time (Ward, you can use that excuse too!). Adam 635 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 3:31pm Subject: Re: Compulsion versus life changes slapdash26 At 6:33 AM +0000 7/14/02, commie_fan wrote: >I won't lie about how I feel about gaming in general, right now, and >collecting in particular. I know you've never been as much of a collector as some of us. (Which reminds me, Adam -- another reason for my continued compulsion is that I've just been doing it for a while, and it's a hard habit to break). >It is just one more old habit I'm asking myself if it would be in my >best interests to break? It's sad that anyone has to feel that way. >I am asking myself many very hard questions, lately. I want to know >just how many of the things that I do are really conscious, rational >choices, and just how many are simply pure, unthinking compulsions. I >only have one life. I don't want to piss it away frivolously. Just as a general philosophy, despite my recognition that frivolity rarely stacks up against doing good for society, I do believe that anything that brings you pleasure is not worthless. So I would suggest that as long as you DO enjoy gaming, then you're not pissing away your life. >I still like old games, but that does not necessarily mean that I >need to be involved on a daily basis in the social end of this hobby, >nor does it mean that I need to try to be a content provider for >others. I like writing, but there are many other subjects out there. This is likely to be a tough decision for you, and I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling that you will soon have to make a decision about it. The bad news is, the kind of things that are making you lose interest in gaming are brought on by people whose type you'll find in every endeavor. At best, getting away from gaming is likely to only give you a brief reprieve. But if you decide to do that, I certainly wish you all luck making the peace last. >One of the hardest things I've ever had to do, was go through a very >good friend's belongings on behalf of his family, after he died in >his fourties. Oof, that's rough. >I had gotten him started on Commodore 64 stuff some >years before, and he had a reasonable (disk) collection of games he >liked to play, and utility-type programs he found to be useful. To >guys like us, stuff like that is good, valuable stuff. To his family, >it was some useless crap they realized none of them would ever use. > >So they gave it to me, pretty much whether I wanted it or not. At least they recognized that it might have some value for you, or someone else. I see this as a good thing, if nothing else then for the memory of what HE thought of it (worthy of keeping). >You likely don't want to know how many trips I made to the dumpster >recently, dumping stuff I no longer want, in preparation for an >upcoming move. Ebay! Dumpsters need no longer be utilized! >I'll be damned if I want my family to have to wade through rooms full >of random junk, like I had to do, in a seemingly vain attempt to come >up with anything that the average person on the street would not >hesitate to call "valuable". I have to admit, it's never a fun task to sort through someone's belongings after a death, and frankly, who has the time anyway. But on the other hand, it can serve as a reminder as to who the person was. >They had no idea what any of it was, and it fell on me to sort it out >for them. That's a hell of a miserable way to spend two weeks, folks! Granted. >I tend to look at the stuff I own, now, not just as "look at all my >stuff" but from the perspective of a totally disinterested stranger, >as well. I am conscious, or try to be conscious, of just how little >value most "mainstream" people would place on the things I own. I try not to think of what the mainstream would think, because it's simply not up to me to worry about them. All I'd own would be a couple crappy CDs and a couple crappy DVDs, and I'd have to change them every couple of months. But I do see your point. I've thought about this to some extent myself. I know that it would end up being my dad moving stuff back home, and with luck, my brothers sorting through it for stuff they might want -- and there is stuff I'm confident they would want -- and they can eBay the rest, or contact other collectors if they look through my computer files. >The problem is this... I am finding out that I don't miss the stuff I >threw out or gave away. All my recent trips to the dumpster, has not >done anything but give me a huge sense of relief, in terms of how my >apartment looks. The more I get rid of, the happier I seem to be. This is where we differ. I HAVE thrown stuff out in the past (not just game stuff, mind), or given it away, and I DID regret doing so, years later. Some things, I STILL regret. For me, as long as I can get away with not doing it, the less likely I'll run into an occasion where I DO regret it later. >I am getting to the end of it, and it is getting harder and harder to >find things that I can get rid of without a moment's thought. Well, don't force it. That's one piece of advice I think I can make without reservation. >Hell, there are times I find myself thinking about how people like >Keanu Reeves claim to live... technically homeless, living out of a >suitcase. I'm not quite that way, by any means, but from time to time >that idea appeals to me. Something sorta Zen and calming about it? Even I've thought about that sort of thing. But it's just not me. I need the solidity of my friends and family that I already have. That desire for permanence over adventure probably gets to the heart of why I cling to the possessions I have. Yet, I DO like making new friends too (it's just not always that easy) and maybe that is in line with why I continue to grab more stuff. Anyway, thought-provoking stuff Ward... I certainly wish you luck with coming to a decision(s) that makes you happy. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 636 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 6:46pm Subject: Re: To PeT and Atrionfo stefanpiasecki Hi, the photocopies of the 2650 game programming book went out today to both of you. I hope this helps. Stefan 637 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Jul 15, 2002 6:51pm Subject: Re: Bandai Arcadia complete SET!!! stefanpiasecki Is it possible to see those screenshots without registering? Stefan 638 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 6:57am Subject: Re: Compulsion versus life changes commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: (snip) > Anyway, thought-provoking stuff Ward... > I certainly wish you luck with coming > to a decision(s) that makes you happy. Well, just don't get the wrong idea. It isn't so much that I'm running away from something I liked, after all. And the painful stuff -- morons and so on that will ruin anything, if given a chance to -- are as you say, a global thing, not just local. It would take a hell of a lot more than a few looneys or bullies to chase me off of any playground, if I felt like staying there. What it boils down to, for me personally, is that I like to write. I thought that I liked gaming as a hobby, and because I liked it so much, I wrote about it. I came to find out, just last week, that I've had that backwards in my mind, for most of the last decade. In fact, I liked to write, and gaming was a convenient thing to write about. Having seen that clearly, for the first time in a decade, opens up a whole new world to me. It is like finding out that there are more colors than you thought there were, or more types of foods than you thought there were. And seeing that some of them really kick ass! I just HAVE to go off and explore all that stuff. I'd be silly not to. Having mentally split "gaming" off from "writing," I am now able to do both things in exactly the way I decide to. Which, since all of this is almost like a brand new re-discovery thing for me, I won't be able to define well in advance. I'm just living, moment to moment, and finding out my new limitations and freedoms as I go. It's cool! Ward Shrake 639 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Jul 16, 2002 5:52pm Subject: Re: Compulsion versus life changes commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: (snip) > Just as a general philosophy, despite > my recognition that frivolity rarely > stacks up against doing good for > society, I do believe that anything > that brings you pleasure is not > worthless. So I would suggest that > as long as you DO enjoy gaming, then > you're not pissing away your life. Excellent thought. I too believe that, within limits. (Going postal or setting one's self on fire have few redeeming values, even if one were sick enough to derive some pleasure out of doing it. Stuff like that may look good on TV, but is not recommended in real life!) Adding to the writing comments I made, in the last posting... the idea of writing fiction stuff for awhile, really appeals to me at this point in my life. Everything I've written in the last ten years, with few exceptions, has been non-fiction; "how to" articles, factual or historical researches, and the like. It isn't so much that writing those sort of things is bad, in itself. It is just that I have had zero balance to what I've written, on the whole. I think I can find a technical article or two "in me" over time, if I switch over to doing mostly fiction, in my future writing. Then it becomes a welcome change, and not just the same old rut I've been stuck in for a decade. Going back to Russ' original comments, above... how many Douglas Adams fans do we have here? Anyone remember the little story that starts out "Life, the Universe and Everything"? About Wowbagger the Infinitely Prolonged? (If not, consider yourself culturally deprived. Shame on you!) In it, the late, lamented Mr. Adams explains that Wowbagger is an alien who is one of the Universe's few accidentally-immortal beings. Most who are born immortal, he explains, know how to handle immortality. He experimented awhile, outlived all sorts of beings he knew, and eventually settled on the idea of flying around the entire universe, insulting every living being in it. In alphabetical order. As the book itself says, "He was a man with a purpose. Not a very good purpose, as he would be the first to admit, but it was at least a purpose, and it did at least keep him on the move." Works for me! -- Ward Shrake -- 640 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Thu Jul 18, 2002 6:00am Subject: "Playing with a microprocessor" book stefanpiasecki Hi, after some weeks of extremely hard "pulling the Ward" work (in my normal life) I have finally found the time to make photocopies of my book and send those out to Adam and PeT (PeT already got his copy and will further examine it). I also took the time to read several chapters. Well, the book is both exciting and disappointing at times. First, it mentions a game-computer that is obviously based on a somewhat advanced version of the Interton VC4000 and not the Arcadia itself. It mentions that Interton and Radofin games can be made compatible. But then again the main processor is the same 2650A that sits in our Arcadia systems, the sound processor is a different one. So most of the command tables and technical descriptions as well as probably a lot of the programming hints and listings are either compatible or could be made compatible. Further the computer it describes can make use of a "keyboard". The keyboard is identical to both the Interton joysticks and the Palladium joysticks (and we know that the dictionary cart for the Palladium used these controllers as a keyboard). Then it has a cart-slot and tells how to attach a tape- drive to it and read, write and store programs with this tape-drive. There is also a number of software titles mentioned, available on a seperate tape that I don't have (but I contacted the book's publisher and they offered any help and promised to make a contact to the original author. Links go back to Philips in Eindhoven/Holland). So although this is not the "how to write games for the system called Arcadia by some" instructions I hoped it was, it should still contain a lot of valuable info for those who are tecnically skilled. Maybe Adam can scan the most interesting parts or even send a copy to Ward? Stefan 641 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 7:40am Subject: "Playing with a microprocessor" book atrionfo Stefan, I got the book in the mail today, thanks. I'm going out of town for several days in the morning, then when I get back we are going to be packing for a move across the country. Not sure when I will have a chance to look at this in detail- but since it is in German and I don't know a word of it I'm not sure how much sense I can make of it. I know that you said you would translate anything that seemed interesting-- I'll get back to you (and the group) on that issue. How many people in this group read German, or live in Germany? Indeed, where is everyone from? This would be an interesting list: Adam - New York Stephan - Germany Ward - California etc. Oh, and no one has typed up the manual that Wrd posted- hint, hint. Some comments on what Staphan said: >> But then again the main processor is the same 2650A that sits in our Arcadia systems, the sound processor is a different one. >> That's the BIG missing link too: the 2636 and/or the 2637. >> So most of the command tables and technical descriptions as well as probably a lot of the programming hints and listings are either compatible or could be made compatible. >> The 2650 User's Guide does a great job at describing how to use the CPU. The 'trick' is that until someone disassembles an Arcadia game there isn't going to be anything complicated going on for this system. Sure, it's 'easy' to get a still picture up on the screen, but all my program does is moves some stuff from ROM to screen RAM and then loops forever. Pretty simple. Stephen, if you (or anyone) wants to see an Arcadia demo or game then the first step is to use the MAME emulator, the built in debugger, critical thinking, and lots of time to "reverse-engineer" what is going on while those games are running. I've done enough investigation and documentation online that someone with the willpower can take what I've done and run with it. >> Further the computer it describes can make use of a "keyboard". The keyboard is identical to both the Interton joysticks and the Palladium joysticks (and we know that the dictionary cart for the Palladium used these controllers as a keyboard). >> There are some nice pictures of this computer in the book that Stephan sent. The "keyboard" is nothing more than the two keypads- it's not anything more complicated than that (it isn't a full-stroke keyboard). In this sense, this computer is REALLY meant as a home-brew unit because when this book was released in 1981 keyboards were available. I imagine this option was used to keep the cost down and to keep the machine compatible with the Interton system? >> Then it has a cart-slot and tells how to attach a tape- drive to it and read, write and store programs with this tape-drive. >> The tape drive isn't needed for the Arcadia, and the cart-slot is all documented in Ward's FAQ (as you all know). >> There is also a number of software titles mentioned, available on a seperate tape that I don't have >> Since these won't run on the Arcadia they probably aren't much use unless they include the source code. If they are just the binary file that would load and run on the computer, then that is nothing we don't already have: we have about fifty ROM images for the Arcadia family, and no one has taken the time to disassemble them. >> (but I contacted the book's publisher and they offered any help and promised to make a contact to the original author. Links go back to Philips in Eindhoven/Holland). >> Well, check if you can't get the English release of this book (if it exists). The assembly code, to me, is only useful with comments in English. >> So although this is not the "how to write games for the system called Arcadia by some" instructions I hoped it was, it should still contain a lot of valuable info for those who are tecnically skilled. >> We will never find a book that explains how to write an Arcadia game. I promise. What we WILL find EVENTUALLY is the 2637 data info (it's got to be out there somewhere) and then with that in hand someone is going to have to disassemble a ROM. There is no short-cut here. If anyone wants to write a new game for the Arcadia system it is going to require work. And lots of it. >> Maybe Adam can scan the most interesting parts or even send a copy to Ward? >> I'll see what I can do about this- if there is something you need scanned in, let me know. @Ward- do you want any of this? And Stephan, thanks again! Adam 642 From: "atrionfo" Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:20am Subject: Re: "Playing with a microprocessor" book atrionfo Some more comments on the "Playing with a microprocessor" book: Page 19: IC3 is clearly a 2636- there is more info there than I have seen anywhere else. Not that it matters too much, as the Arcadia family uses the 2637. Pages 237-264: The Monitor Program. This is the source code for the machine language monitor for this computer- the comments are in English! The program would have been burned to an EPROM (I suppose) so that it would always be available at bootup. The programmer would have entered programs via the keypad with this program. This touches a softspot in my heart- it's just like the Astrocade with a cartridge called "Machine Language Manager" plugged in. Adam 643 From: "atrionfo" Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:05am Subject: 2650 CPU ML Monitor commented source code atrionfo I have uploaded a file called 2650_monitor_program.pdf to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_ex amples/PDF_formatted_files/ "The Monitor-Program" is from the book "Spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor TV-Spiel-computer" that Stefan photocopied and sent to me. I scanned in the commented 2650 CPU source code for a machine language monitor program. Since this is the ONLY commented source code I've seen for the 2650 CPU, I thought it would be worth having available for all those millions of Arcadia programmers that are just waiting on the sidelines for something exactly like this. This program is NOT for the Arcadia family of computers, so don't expect it to work- the two machines are similar in that they share the same CPU (the Signetics 2650A). The Apple II and the Atari 800 both use a 6502 CPU; you wouldn't expect programs for those two computers to be compatible would you? It's a similar situation here. Would it be better if we had some commented source code for the Arcadia? Sure it would, but this is much better than what we have now- which is NOTHING. Adam 644 From: "CharlesD916" Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 0:38pm Subject: location CharlesD916 Adam - New York Charles - California Stephan - Germany Ward - California Charles www.evg2000.com 645 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 0:53pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Manuals - Text Format/spacesquadron.txt Uploaded by : CharlesD916 Description : English instructions for Leisure=Vision version of Space Squadron You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Manuals%20-%20Text%20Format/spacesquadron.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, CharlesD916 646 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:07pm Subject: Re: location slapdash26 Adam - New York Charles - California Russ* - Illinois Stephan - Germany Ward - California (* to answer Adam, I don't read German, but I'm learning; trying to anyway) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 647 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Fri Jul 19, 2002 11:25pm Subject: RE: location tempest_2084 Hey don't forget about me! Matt - Michigan Adam - New York Charles - California Russ* - Illinois Stephan - Germany Ward - California 648 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 8:58am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Manuals - Text Format/escape.txt Uploaded by : CharlesD916 Description : English instructions for Arcadia 2001 version of Escape. You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Manuals%20-%20Text%20Format/escape.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, CharlesD916 649 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 8:59am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Manuals - Text Format/tanksalot.txt Uploaded by : CharlesD916 Description : English instructions for Arcadia 2001 version of Tanks A Lot. You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Manuals%20-%20Text%20Format/tanksalot.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, CharlesD916 650 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun Jul 21, 2002 9:51am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Manuals - Text Format/starchess.txt Uploaded by : CharlesD916 Description : English instructions for Arcadia 2001 version of Star Chess. You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Manuals%20-%20Text%20Format/starchess.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, CharlesD916 651 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:22am Subject: Manuals being typed in commie_fan Just wanted to say a big thanks to Charles, for typing in more of the game manuals for this console group. Coolness! -- Ward Shrake -- 652 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Jul 22, 2002 5:26am Subject: Re: "Playing with a microprocessor" book commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > @Ward- do you want any of this? Not really; not now, in any case. It isn't that the info is of no use or interest to me. I have tons of other big things going on, in my personal life, including a move on relatively short notice, so this would be about the worst possible time for me to get stuff like that. Maybe (much) later on, it would be of more use or interest to me. -- Ward Shrake -- 653 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jul 25, 2002 2:12am Subject: Elektor TV Spielcomputer Book (in German) scanned grumpfix Hello everybody, I scanned Stefan's fotocopy of this book with 200 dpi, lineart(black/white). Is somebody interested in this 12.5MByte big tiff-file archive? Where should I upload it to? I might add some gray scans (for the screenshots and print pictures) and higher resolution scans for the circuit diagrams and some tables if needed/wanted. Content of this book (all in german): cpu2650 beginner guide pvi2636 description psg (ay8910) description building the computer, description of its hardware, programming it Remark: The Interton VC4000/Acetronic MPU1000/... class consoles consist of 2650, 2636, white noise generator. Peter 654 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Sat Aug 3, 2002 0:37am Subject: Where can I find the game archives.... stefanpiasecki .... that Ward previously had on his unannounced page? I miss some games and would love to try them with MESS. Cheers Stefan 655 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 10:48am Subject: Re: Where can I find the game archives.... commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "stefanpiasecki" wrote: > .... that Ward previously had on his > unannounced page? I miss some games > and would love to try them with MESS. > Cheers > Stefan Probably in the bookmarks section, where the updated link has been for a month now. (I updated it when my web site moved to "Digital Press".) No offense meant, but come on, guys... use the resources that are here. That's why this group was created in the first place. -- Ward Shrake -- 656 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 11:10am Subject: Archiving on hold, for the foreseeable commie_fan Just a note to let you guys all know that, due to my upcoming move to a currently unknown location, towards the end of this month, and all the related and unrelated personal things that are going on, that any and all Arcadia 2001 archiving chores that I might have normally done, are simply out of the question, for the foreseeable future. Chances are, this will not cause anyone any grief. I already archived all the carts that various people loaned me, and returned them, some time ago. (There was only one person who still had some things that have not yet been archived, but those were on a back-burner plan for weeks if not months, due to that person's personal schedule, etc.) If anyone asks where they can get stuff archived, the official answer is, "beats me". Ward will NOT be able to do this, for the foreseeable future. When things change, I will let you all know; this message stands as is, until modified by me. (Or someone else appears who can do this kind of thing; possibly Peter, if he is even interested?) Bottomline, I have no choice. Many things in my life are changing, and this kind of thing is, quite frankly, the least of my present concerns. This stuff waited twenty years to be archived, before this. It can wait a little while longer, if need be. I will deal with multicart upgrade news in private e-mail, to all of the people that already purchased one of those from me. (I kept good lists of customers, etc.) Short story is, if you want an upgrade, you have about a two week window of opportunity, and after that, I have no idea when the window will reopen again. Since nobody expressed any strong desire to have their carts updated, since I shipped them out weeks / months ago, I can't see how this will be a problem, either. If I had a choice, I'd pass that choice on. I don't, so I can't. Sorry. When things change, I'll announce it, as I mentioned before. -- Ward Shrake -- 657 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 11:20am Subject: Ward may be going off-line soon commie_fan Just so everyone knows: due to personal reasons I'd rather not go into very deeply in public, there is a good chance I may be "out of touch" as far as the web is concerned, for the forseeable future. (That means weeks for sure, months more likely, dates all unknown.) I will do what I can to retain my current e-mail address, so that I can still communicate by way of e-mail. But even that will be at a FAR slower pace than I / we have been used to. (If I was "doing the Ward" before, this will be "doing the anti-Ward" coming up soon.) My current snail-mail address will NOT be valid. I plan to have mail forwarding sent to a post office box, temporarily, till things in my personal life settle down. If you have some pressing need to have my new snail mail address, you have about a two week window to ask me for it, and then I may or may not be around to answer it for you. -- Ward Shrake -- 658 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 11:27am Subject: Does anyone want Board Admin duties? commie_fan Back in mid-July, I made a passing reference to maybe asking someone else to run this place, sometime before the year was out. Well, we are now to that point, more or less. My net access is going to be radically reduced, for the foreseeable, starting in just two weeks. Because I started this group, I have all the administrative permissions and so on. I did give Adam Trionfo those same basic permissions, some time ago, since I know he runs the "Bally Alley" board (about the Bally Astrocade) which more or less inspired this one. But he and I are currently the only ones set up as admins. Does anyone else, (A) whom I've known for a long time, and (B) never had any run-ins with, desire to be upgraded in the Board Permissions Department? If so, you have about a two week window of opportunity to say so. I will consider any such requests, but please don't waste my time on this ... I have tons of other, more pressing things to do. -- Ward Shrake -- 659 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 0:54pm Subject: Multicart upgrades, and CGE 2002 commie_fan Someone followed up on one of my just-moments-ago postings, asking if I was going to be at CGE this year. The answer to that is yes, I can go, thanks to the coolness of Chris Neiman and Joe Santulli, who are going out of their way to make the trip cost-effective enough that I can afford to go. (Without their help, there would simply be no way.) I will be working, on and off, at the main table for Digital Press. At that table, Joe tells me I can do my own multicart business. (Keep in mind that I'm also an author for the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" book, version seven, which is going public at the show.) I intend to have the two existing multicart types to show off, and I MAY try to bring the one-and-only Commodore VIC-20 multicart proto, too... but note, that's not 100% certain, and its only a prototype, anyway, and I don't know how much table space I have, in advance. I'm working my tail off, now, to have one dozen each of the Bally and Arcadia carts there, brand new, for anyone that can afford the $100 cost of them. There will not be any more than that at the show, so if you want one or both (and don't already have them), bring money! And just so no one yells at me, I'll repeat this: these take 10 to 12 hours of my time, EACH, to make. Making two dozen of them, if I worked every single day, long hours, takes almost a month of my time. So this is not *artificially* limiting the numbers... it is just a sane attempt at having a life, balanced against making a few bucks. Once those dozen are gone, that's it. There aren't any more for me to sell. (And I don't know if I'll be making more, after CGE... that depends on far too many things I have little control over right now.) As to upgrades, at CGE 2002... I don't know. Maybe. I only found out that I could go to CGE, on the 21st of July. (Just two weeks ago.) I still had the details to work out, even then, so this is "last minute" for me, too. (Still, sorry I didn't think of it sooner.) (Thinking out loud...) I will not be able to burn EPROMs there at the show, more than likely, due to a lack of computer equipment to do it with. Which means I will have to burn them at home, in advance, before I go to the show. Which in turn means I have to know how many people are going to the show, who will have carts they want me to upgrade. And I have to order EPROMs no later than Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning, to have any real chance of them arriving on time, for me to accomplish that in advance, since I'm leaving early Friday morning. So, all in all, it looks "iffy" for me to do that. I'll try to bring some EPROMs, but I can't promise everyone will be taken care of during the show, if they don't tell me NOW they will be going. (On Tuesday evening, or later, it's probably a "no, I'm sorry" answer.) After the show, there will still be two weeks I can do upgrades. If a customer plans ahead, that's plenty of time to get me their carts in the mail, have me erase and reburn the EPROM, and send it back to them. Or, alternately, for those who are confident enough in their own technical skills to remove a chip safely from a socket, and insert another one, I may want to offer a slightly higher cost upgrade, where I just mail the person a newly programmed EPROM. (They are only $8 or so brand new, and since it would save you the $5 or so cost of mailing your cart to me, and some return postage, it would only be a few bucks more expensive for you, or perhaps no increase.) As I think I said before, I have not worked out all the details, 100 per cent. I'll e-mail all the multicart owners soon, hoping to get feedback from anyone going to CGE, who intends to bring their carts. I apologize for the last minute rush, but it could not be helped. -- Ward Shrake -- 660 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 10:14pm Subject: Re: Where can I find the game archives.... stefanpiasecki Sorry, I know that I sometimes behave like dull, but I cannot find the games there. Can anybody send me the complete bunch by email (should be some 100k's only). Stefan 661 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Aug 5, 2002 4:04pm Subject: Re: Archiving on hold, for the foreseeable grumpfix commie_fan wrote: > If anyone asks where they can get stuff archived, the official answer > is, "beats me". Ward will NOT be able to do this, for the foreseeable > future. When things change, I will let you all know; this message > stands as is, until modified by me. (Or someone else appears who can > do this kind of thing; possibly Peter, if he is even interested?) I am interested. Peter 662 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Aug 6, 2002 2:27am Subject: Re: Re: Where can I find the game archives.... grumpfix stefanpiasecki wrote: > Sorry, I know that I sometimes behave like dull, but I cannot find > the games there. Can anybody send me the complete bunch by email > (should be some 100k's only). Sent (49 titles + 2nd 3d soccer set) Peter 664 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Aug 6, 2002 4:28am Subject: Re: Archiving on hold, for the foreseeable commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > commie_fan wrote: > > If anyone asks where they can get > > stuff archived, the official answer > > is, "beats me". Ward will NOT be > > able to do this, for the foreseeable > > future. When things change, I will > > let you all know; this message > > stands as is, until modified by me. > > (Or someone else appears who can > > do this kind of thing; possibly > > Peter, if he is even interested?) > > I am interested. > > Peter OK, good to know. For the record, folks, remember that I keep a list of what has or has not been archived, up on my web site. Which moved in July over to Digital Press; please see the "bookmarks" section for the link to Digital Press. From there, on their left-hand menu bar, look for Digital Archaeology. My old web site will come up in a frame. It is still set up the same way, other than that; same navigation, same menus, and all of that. The archiving list is under the "texts" menu. -- Ward Shrake -- 665 From: "commie_fan" Date: Tue Aug 6, 2002 8:53am Subject: Multicart upgrades: an update commie_fan A quick follow-up on the whole archiving subject: I don't want to give the impression that I'm upset with anyone. If anything, I'm just in a big rush, with a lot on my mind... but that's all. I consider any cart loans a big favor, and appreciate them when they happen, whenever that might be. In this case, the (unnamed) person that said he wanted to loan me two of his Japanese "Bandai Arcadia" carts, some months ago, had other things going on in his life that prevented that from happening. He offered yesterday to try to "rush" things on his end, to get those two carts to me, now, but I had to decline. It is just too late, on my end of things. Weeks ago, I could have done it. Now, I can't. Even if I had the carts in my hands, I couldn't do it, and they need to be found, mailed out, archived, etc. My schedule simply won't allow it. I am booked solid all week, just getting two dozen new multicarts ready for the CGE meeting in Las Vegas right now. The EPROMs are already burnt and tested, so it would be a step backwards for me, not forwards, to have to un-burn all of those cart ROMs, etc. It is the late afternoon on Monday now, and I'm leaving very early on Friday. Just can't be done, in the available time. After CGE, my personal life won't allow any archiving, probably for the rest of the year. That's just the way things are, folks. Nothing I can do about it. It has nothing to do with losing interest in the hobby, or being upset, or anything like that. I simply can't do it. I've already offered an upgrade in e-mail, to all my customers, but it will only include the carts we have, right now. That's still five more games than most of my (twenty) multicart customers have now, so it is definitely a worthwhile time for me to offer an upgrade. Keep in mind that even if I could magically freeze time, etc, and archive the two Japanese carts that were going to originally be loaned to me months ago, that the multicart would still need a second upgrade, later on, for any of the even-newer carts we find. There are still at least two more confirmed carts, beyond the two that were going to be loaned out, but never made it. Another thing to consider, is that a lot of the guys I've talked to about this, told me their carts are in storage somewhere, or things to that effect. If they're not even playing them, what's the rush? Patience, folks. I know some people "want it all," but this stuff waited for us for twenty years so far. It can wait a bit longer. -- Ward Shrake -- 666 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Aug 6, 2002 11:32am Subject: RE: Does anyone want Board Admin duties? atrionfo Ward wrote: >> I did give Adam Trionfo those same basic permissions, some time ago, since I know he runs the "Bally Alley" board (about the Bally Astrocade) which more or less inspired this one. But he and I are currently the only ones set up as admins. >> I do keep up with this group on a daily basis (everything is forwarded goes to my email account). If administration tasks come up that need to be taken care of, make sure that they get mentioned here, as I have no problem doing any of them. Like Ward, I will be having some down time from the Internet too, but I should be able to get to any tasks pretty quickly if someone brings them up. So, basically, what I'm saying is this: when one of you disassembles and adds comments to one of the Arcadia game cartridges I will make sure that it has a good home here. Each of you is working on disassembling a cartridge... right??? Adam 667 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Tue Aug 6, 2002 5:07pm Subject: Re: Arcadia cartridges stefanpiasecki PERFEKT!!! Vielen Dank Stefan 668 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 9:48am Subject: Re: Does anyone want Board Admin duties? commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > So, basically, what I'm saying is > this: when one of you disassembles > and adds comments to one of the > Arcadia game cartridges I will make > sure that it has a good home here. > Each of you is working on > disassembling a cartridge... > right??? > > > > Adam Speaking of which, I'll throw out some quick, random comments on the "homebrew" efforts done so far. PeT's "CharTest" program, which was written strictly as a MESS emulation author's utility program, to see exactly what the built-in character set looks like, is on the multicart, "just because". And now that I have it in non-MESS emulation form, I can see it has a few minor problems. (Not that I'm complaining.) To start it, you have to start some other program, then flip over to this one, and reset. That is the only way it will start reliably, as a program burnt into a physical multicart, on a real Arcadia machine. Resets don't work, and power-cycling does not work, with the program itself inserted as if it were a single cartridge. Apparently, there is some sort of initialization routine that needs to be done, or there is a small delay needed for the machine to "settle down" on power up? It starts fine if you start another program, first, then flip over, but it also does not clear the existing screen, left over from the last game, when you do that. There are still things left over from before, in memory somewhere, as will be obvious when you do what I'm saying here, with the multicart. All minor programming nits I'm picking... more of an observation than anything else, which may or may not be useful programming info? Adam's "Mothership" program does work a bit more reliably on start up, but even it messes up from time to time. You may have to start it up with on/off, instead of a plain reset, but it will start and do its thing well, most of the time. And I have to admit, that ship does look cool, with those birds all sitting above it, waiting to do their thing. ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- 669 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Aug 7, 2002 9:51am Subject: Re: Does anyone want Board Admin duties? commie_fan Should we read anything cosmic into the fact that Adam posted here, saying he had board moderator privileges, in posting #666? ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Ward wrote: > >> > I did give Adam Trionfo those same basic permissions, some time ago, since I > know he runs the "Bally Alley" board (about the Bally Astrocade) which more > or less inspired this one. But he and I are currently the only ones set up > as admins. > >> > > I do keep up with this group on a daily basis (everything is forwarded goes > to my email account). If administration tasks come up that need to be taken > care of, make sure that they get mentioned here, as I have no problem doing > any of them. Like Ward, I will be having some down time from the Internet > too, but I should be able to get to any tasks pretty quickly if someone > brings them up. > > So, basically, what I'm saying is this: when one of you disassembles and > adds comments to one of the Arcadia game cartridges I will make sure that it > has a good home here. Each of you is working on disassembling a > cartridge... right??? > > > > Adam 670 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:04am Subject: Re: Does anyone want Board Admin duties? atrionfo Ward wrote: >> Should we read anything cosmic into the fact that Adam posted here, saying he had board moderator privileges, in posting #666? ;-) >> Oops, Ward! Your monitor must be upside down-- that posting is #999... Adam 671 From: "atrionfo" Date: Thu Aug 8, 2002 11:34am Subject: On mothership and Arcadia programming atrionfo >> Adam's "Mothership" program does work a bit more reliably on start up, but even it messes up from time to time. You may have to start it up with on/off, instead of a plain reset, but it will start and do its thing well, most of the time. >> I know about this problem; I discussed it in message number 582. The program always started for me from EPROM, but sometimes it would not be in the right screen resolution (see posting 582 for further details). Ward, are you saying that sometimes it doesn't start at all (blank screen)? I was able to do quite a bit of programming without digging deeply into the Arcadia 2001 ROM images (but that's because I was able to use work written by the emulator authors- there's some GOOD stuff on this discussion group- and you don't even have to dip deeply). I am in the process of moving (just a few days now...), and I will be busy afterward, but I still extend the offer to help anyone that is able to also help themselves. If there is anyone out there who isn't too timid to take some Signetics 2650 programming steps, and is willing to make mistakes along the way (just like me!), then I can help you out. The Arcadia isn't a completely unexplored system- it's been mapped out somewhat- but there are still some holes that need investigation (well, a lot of holes, actually). This group now has 27 members; I'd bet that there are just a couple of programmers among you that might have an interest in seeing what this little-known monster can do. All the tools have been gathered together, let's see who can make use of them. A logical direction to head with the "Mothership" program would be to animate part of the screen. It would be neat to see those enemies at the top coming down the screen- but the program isn't setup for that. Page-flipping animation could be done by replacing the characters: one could make a small "object table" and then just keep looping through it and make crude, jerky movements. Of course, sprites are the IDEAL solution to jerky movements, but... well, first things first. Anyone wanna take a "dare" and get some characters moving using the "mothership" source code? I haven't done it- but it can be done without too much trouble (using the "jerky-movement method). Anyone care to give it a go? Adam 672 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Aug 9, 2002 1:05am Subject: Re: Compulsion versus life changes commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 6:33 AM +0000 7/14/02, commie_fan wrote: (snip) > > You likely don't want to know how > > many trips I made to the dumpster > > recently, dumping stuff I no longer > > want, in preparation for an > > upcoming move. > > Ebay! Dumpsters need no longer be utilized! At present, I'm sick of eBay, as far as selling goes. I had five auctions running, for items I didn't want to throw into the dumpster. All of which closed on July 21st. It is now August 8th; almost three weeks later. I am STILL waiting on promised payment for three of the five auctions. And of the two people that did pay, one did so only under duress and the direct threat that if he did not, he'd receive negative feedback from me. So the total so far, is one hassle-free auction out of five, with the other ones all being big nightmares. Screw it; Dumpster City, coming up. I don't need pointless complications in my life, and that's what eBay is, to me, right now. Maybe it would be useful in an ideal world. Too bad this isn't one. -- Ward Shrake -- 673 From: "commie_fan" Date: Wed Aug 14, 2002 0:28pm Subject: Multicarts: only 50 (or less) will be made commie_fan {Note that I posted this same text to the Bally Alley message boards...} I just got back from CGE 2002, and can now report on my decision, regarding the stopping point on my run of multicarts. It is going to be 50 carts total, or less. That's no longer a guess; it's official. I made the announcement Saturday at CGE, sort of, when I auctioned off a cart at the end of that day. (After only selling one other Astrocade cart on Saturday, which for any sort of major weekend convention, is generally much busier than Sunday is.) I followed that news up on Sunday, by way of printed signs at my booth area, with no "takers" during that day, at all. People had money at the show... they just spent it on other things, with most of the concentration going to the Atari 2600 and the other "more popular" game consoles. People dropped hundreds on auction items for those consoles, but did not budge much at all, when it came time to buy either multicart. Just for random background info: Sum total, I sold two Arcadia 2001 carts during CGE 2002, and two Astrocade multicarts. That's four total orders, with two going for the full "$100 each" price, and the two auctioned carts getting only $85 each, for a combined total of $370 taken in. Subtract out $4 for auction overhead, and it is $366 total, for everything I sold at CGE. Before the show, I had ordered enough raw parts to make over 20 carts, combined. (I had three Arcadia carts already sitting around, so I am not counting those, although I probably should.) I had 12 of each type of cart, ready to be sold at the show. (Some needed minor finishing work done to them, but they were close to being ready.) The cost of the raw parts, to make one multicart, is around $20 each. I ordered enough raw parts for 20+ completed carts, before the show. That means I spent $400 or more, in raw parts alone, and I took in $366 dollars total. That adds up to a net loss of $34 dollars, so in financial terms, it simply was a waste of my money, to have made the carts I made. I had thought that demand had peaked, already, at only 30 or so Astrocade carts, and 20 or so Arcadia carts. It appears that I was correct in my pre-show analysis of the situation, after all. I took a chance, just in case, and merely confirmed my prior judgement. On top of that, it took nearly a month of my time, prepping a bunch of new carts for the show, that instead of selling, I took home with me. So, with no pun intended, that was a month of time that was wasted. It would have been spent as well or better, watching TV. I do not say any of this for sympathy, or to whine, or whatever. I am just saying that, in my opinion, any reasonable person faced with these facts would say that there is no real demand for these products at this point in time, so there is no point in making more of them in the forseeable future. I only have one life; I don't wish to waste it. I have ten of each cart type "left over" right now, which brings the list of Astrocade carts made-to-date up to around 42 or so, with about 30 or so made-to-date for the Arcadia 2001 console. Barring something unforeseen now, I figure that I will just hang onto the nearly dozen each of the finished-but-unsold carts, sell them as orders trickle in, and not consider making any more, till they are all gone. I may just cut it off there, or I may keep going. I won't know for sure, till that day comes, and for all I know, maybe that will be many years from now? Also, on a related note: I did take the Commodore VIC-20 multicart prototype to the show. I had it out on display on Sunday. The only people that asked anything about it, where one or two guys that knew I was bringing it, before the show. Nobody else seemed to care about it, at all, so that cart's a dead issue to me, as far as making more of them goes, in the future. I'll keep my one-and-only prototype to play with, in my own home, and that's as far as that project will go. Again, none of this is intended as "whining". I just need to be sure I budget my time and resources well, now and in the future, so I have to be realistic about how much work will go into something, and what I will get out of it. These carts seem to have "run their course" for the most part, so I'll be concentrating on other things from now on. By the way: none of this is a reflection on CGE 2002... the show itself was great fun! It was my first time attending it, and I do want to go back, next year. I loved the show, loved meeting many of the folks I've only talked to via a computer screen, and so on. Ward Shrake 674 From: "commie_fan" Date: Fri Aug 16, 2002 2:25am Subject: Ward's online status commie_fan There seems to be some confusion as to my upcoming online status. At least one person thought I was going to have a new e-mail address, soon. That is not the case. I will have the same e-mail address that I have now; however, I will not have ready access to the internet, after the 23rd of August. I can receive e-mails, after that date, but may be very slow in answering them. I cannot predict in advance how long I will be, to all intents and purposes, "off the net". Sorry. My snail mail address will definitely change. The new one is: Ward Shrake P.O. Box 5182 West Covina, CA 91791 USA In other words, the same city and state, but with a P.O. Box now. Please make a note of this somewhere, if you intend to communicate with me for any reason. In one week, these changes go into effect. -- Ward Shrake -- 675 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sat Aug 17, 2002 1:21am Subject: Re: Archiving on hold, for the foreseeable commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner > wrote: > > commie_fan wrote: > > > If anyone asks where they can get > > > stuff archived, the official answer > > > is, "beats me". Ward will NOT be > > > able to do this, for the foreseeable > > > future. When things change, I will > > > let you all know; this message > > > stands as is, until modified by me. > > > (Or someone else appears who can > > > do this kind of thing; possibly > > > Peter, if he is even interested?) > > > > I am interested. > > > > Peter Another couple of updates: I still can't do archiving, for the forseeable. This week, I'm moving everything I own into another place, which takes 100% of my time. After I move out, I will not have an internet connection, for the forseeable, hence my earlier "I can't do it" postings. Predictably, just a week or so after I say that, someone tells me they have access to three undumped games. (And not even the Japanese ones, at that.) By the way; the Digital Press web site losts its servers, or some such thing, about a week ago. I wasn't given the details. All I know is that I moved my web sites over to their place, was up for a few weeks, and then their servers died. I'm sure they'll find a new host, or whatever the problem is, but perhaps not in time for me to be able to upload all my stuff to them, before I move away, etc. Oh well. I'll do the best I can, but that may not be good enough. -- Ward Shrake -- 678 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Sat Aug 17, 2002 4:48am Subject: Re: Introduction, compatibility list, etc. tempest_2084 R2D Tank is a bit of a mystery, the title screen says copyright Sigma Ltd. which was the same company who had Spiders and one other (Red Clash?), but I've never seen a R2D Tank arcade machine listed anywhere. So either it's very very obscure, or possibly an unreleased game of some sort. Tempest 682 From: "commie_fan" Date: Sun Aug 18, 2002 9:19am Subject: Digital Press Collectors Guide commie_fan Just a reminder... the printed "Digital Press Collectors Guide" (version seven) has all of the very latest cartridge information. That was the whole point of all that work, a few months ago... to figure out the latest info, and put it all in one place. Don't forget that it exists, guys, when you start discussing what is or is not out there, and what its history may or may not be. You're reinventing the wheel, if you do not read what is in that printed book, first. -- Ward Shrake -- 683 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Aug 19, 2002 1:47am Subject: Ward's web site is now online again commie_fan The web site that Ward Shrake once had up, which has been down for a week or so, is now back up. See the bookmarks section for the link to it, on the (temporary) "Digital Press" web servers. Just as a reminder, this is where the most current FAQ is, and the latest cart lists of all varieties -- one specifically to say what has or has not been archived yet, for instance. The same place has all the ROM images, too. (Bookmarked under emulation; the other stuff is bookmarked under research.) The site is going to remain largely "static" for the foreseeable future. This is due to Ward's previously-mentioned web site access issues, which will begin this Friday. -- Ward Shrake -- 684 From: "commie_fan" Date: Mon Aug 19, 2002 2:10am Subject: Re: Introduction, compatibility list, etc. commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: (snip) > Are the 50 or so games which were recently posted here the entire > digitized collection at this point in time? James, as you'll soon discover when you read all the current info on my web site, and once you get yourself a copy of the printed Digital Press Collectors Guide, the single biggest problem with archiving anything for this console is that it was a globally-marketed beast, where there are often six or more names for the same ROM image, marketed in different parts of the world. You have to archive all six copies, and compare them digitally, to know for certain if a given game is or is not what you think it is. Assumptions are very dangerous, when dealing with this console. We beat that subject to death months ago, but it is still true today. For instance, people say that "Crazy Wall" is nothing but "Crazy Climber" with another name. I prefer to wait, archive it, and compare the two ROM images, before I say for certain if they are identical. Screenshots are largely meaningless, in this endeavor. Really. No wise researcher gives them anything but a passing glance, because we have already discovered that many of the ones shown in catalogs are simply fakes -- artist's renditions -- but that some which appear to be fakes at first, may in face be early versions of a game, which weren't widely released. (Such as the mothership stage of Phoenix / Space Vultures, which Adam Trionfo discovered could be a real screen.) Too many variations of the same game exist, to categorize them by what is seen on a screen. You're deluding yourself, and others, if you make final decisions based on screenshots. > I was under the impression that R2D Tank was an original Arcadia > game? Was this in fact a coin-op conversion? It seems not to be > available for MAME... Again, that is meaningless... the MAME comparison, I mean. There are "bronze age" arcade games that nobody has found copies of, but that were definitely "out there" at one time. If you fire up R2D Tank, you will see onscreen credits claiming it was an arcade clone. Printed box or instruction sheets often say much the same thing. See the printed "Digital Press Collectors Guide" book for more info. It's all there. You're reinventing the wheel, if you don't obtain a copy and read it. In summary: everything on this console is about three to five times harder, research-wise, than any other console we're aware of. That is no exaggeration. There were far too many lies told intentionally by various companies, back in the day. There are far too many lies told unintentionally by former researchers, who unlike us, were very sloppy in their data gathering and confirmation. Those same lies are spread daily, by people who think they know the most current stuff, simply because they read someone's web site, where those lies were repeated, with zero checking to see if they were or were not true. It's all a cluster-f**k... or it was, anyway. We sorted all that out, with great effort, and I for one would ask any newbies to this group to respect what we've discovered to date, and to take the time to educate themselves fully, before proceeding with what they think is new research. Welcome, in short, to serious Digital Archaeology! -- Ward Shrake -- 685 From: "stefanpiasecki" Date: Fri Sep 6, 2002 6:16am Subject: Rare games on Ebay! stefanpiasecki Hi, I just put up some rare items of my collection on ebay. You can find games for the Tel-Fever and especially the Palladium-system this time, incl. the ultra-rare dictionary cart incl. those two daughter carts and the overlays. Have fun. http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=steve-vx&completed=0&sort=3&since=- 1&include=0&page=1&rows=25 Stefan Ebay: steve-vx 686 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Sep 14, 2002 3:18am Subject: Anything to say? atrionfo The board has been pretty fry since Ward left. Anyone have anything to say to the rest of the group? As for me, I'm trying to teach myself 6502 programming from a book with a friend of mine. We're using the Atari 800XL and a cross- assembler. I'm not really hot on writing games for the Atari- it's got enough games already. I want to learn the process of writing a game in assembly language and then apply this knowledge to other classic systems that have not had any "new" games written for them since the early eighties (i.e. the Astrocade and the Arcadia 2001). I'm not saying that I'm ever going to write a full-fledged game a classic system, but it would be neat to at least write a demo. I think I've said all this before... thoughts? Adam 687 From: "Charles Morgan" Date: Sat Sep 14, 2002 8:02am Subject: Re: Anything to say? ventrra --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > The board has been pretty fry since Ward left. Anyone have anything > to say to the rest of the group? Sorry. I haven't had a computer for a while now (I probably won't have one again until sometime in October (I dearly hope.)). Hopefully I'll then be able to get at my programming research again. (In case you're wondering, I'm typing this on a neighbor's computer. Fortunately, some people understand what it's like to be "stuck" without one.) > As for me, I'm trying to teach myself 6502 programming from a book > with a friend of mine. We're using the Atari 800XL and a cross- > assembler. I'm not really hot on writing games for the Atari- it's > got enough games already. I want to learn the process of writing a > game in assembly language and then apply this knowledge to other > classic systems that have not had any "new" games written for them > since the early eighties (i.e. the Astrocade and the Arcadia 2001). > I'm not saying that I'm ever going to write a full-fledged game a > classic system, but it would be neat to at least write a demo. I > think I've said all this before... thoughts? > > Adam Good luck, Adam I think that it will prove very usefull (or interesting, anyway) if someone can at least get something working on this system. P.S. I finally realised a while back that you have a site called "Bally Alley" at Classicgaming.com. Nice site :) 688 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Sep 15, 2002 2:31am Subject: Re: Anything to say? slapdash26 At 5:18 PM +0000 9/13/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: >The board has been pretty fry since Ward left. Anyone have anything >to say to the rest of the group? Heh, I've been too busy lately to do just about anything... >As for me, I'm trying to teach myself 6502 programming from a book >with a friend of mine. We're using the Atari 800XL and a cross- >assembler. I'm not really hot on writing games for the Atari- it's >got enough games already. I want to learn the process of writing a >game in assembly language and then apply this knowledge to other >classic systems that have not had any "new" games written for them >since the early eighties (i.e. the Astrocade and the Arcadia 2001). I've at least had some assembly experience, but not on 6502, Z80 or 6809, which seem to be the most common processor families for classics. I'm probably closest to the 6809 with what I do know, but of course I'm not finding time to get around to doing anything. >I'm not saying that I'm ever going to write a full-fledged game a >classic system, but it would be neat to at least write a demo. I >think I've said all this before... thoughts? I wish you all the luck in the world towards doing it, and hopefully someday I'll be able to code some things too. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 689 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Sep 15, 2002 3:55am Subject: Re: Anything to say? atrionfo Charles Morgan wrote: >> Good luck, Adam I think that it will prove very usefull (or interesting, anyway) if someone can at least get something working on this system. >> Agreed. It will take more than just someone with the emulator and some machine language skills to get something going though. As we have discovered, just because a program works fine on the emulator does not mean that it will work exactly right on the actual hardware. That's to be expected though, the same holds true with all the other classic systems. >> P.S. I finally realised a while back that you have a site called "Bally Alley" at Classicgaming.com. Nice site :) >> Thanks. That website explains why I'm always bringing up the Astrocade on this discussion board. I also wrote, along with Michael White, the updated section of the Digital Press Collectors Guide Seven. If you buy it for the Arcadia 2001 section that Ward updated (and you SHOULD get it for that reason alone), check out the Astrocade section when you get a chance. Adam 692 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Sep 17, 2002 5:36am Subject: Re: Anything to say? atrionfo >> As I see it the most important priorities for the Arcadia community are, in descending order: #1) image all unimaged cartridges (eg. Super Bug, etc.) #2) improve emulator compatibility (eg. Circus, etc. seem to be incompatible with both emulators) #3) digitize all game manuals, overlays, etc. >> #1) Almost all carts have been dumped- let's see what can be done with the carts that have been dumped already (that is, compare, one-by-one, how compatible that each is with the MESS emulator). Dumping carts that have not yet been dumped should still be important, but it shouldn't be the number 1 priority. #2) Emulator quality should be the number one aim of the Arcadia community; that's why comparing carts one-by-one between an actual system and the MESS emulator is so important. Question: How much closer to the "real thing" can the MESS emulator get without further knowledge of the 2637 graphics chips? #3) Getting the manuals available to users is very important. I've stated this in previous postings, and I stand by that now. I'm not sure that scans are the best idea: they take up a large amount of storage space and can't be converted from one language to another with the web translators. For these two reasons, and also because there are about 350 different carts but only about 50 different actual ROMs it's most important to create a "universal" version of a game's documentation in text format. Adam 697 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 6:00am Subject: Ward accessing these boards commie_fan Howdy. Just saying that I am now able to read and post stuff here, once in awhile. I don't have regular access back, and won't for some time, but I will try to check in, from time to time. -- Ward Shrake -- 698 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 7:30am Subject: Digital Press Collectors Guide commie_fan Has anyone else taken a look at the system intro for the Atari 2600 console, in the printed "Digital Press Collectors Guide, version 7" book? If you have not, you researcher types probably should. They mentioned a 'conspiracy' among pirate companies, with a single source, apparently, within the 2600 market. It sounds very much like the research we did, which ended up discovering the close relationship that Philips had, behind the scenes, in this market. (But of course, they're talking about another game console.) Where the two cross paths, or may do so, is in the manufacture of certain items, towards the end of the Arcadia console's market life, around 1983 or so. This is when UA apparently wrote games like the "Cat and Mouse" ports, which were once licensed Arcadia games, but which ended up in a 128-in-1 console, complete with UA name... on what now appears, according to them, to be an Atari-made ROM chip? I'm not sure what to think, regarding the Atari researcher's world? On the one hand, I'm mildly pissed off that they keep ignoring us, when I try to point them towards things like the UA "Cat Trax" port. I pointed that relationship out, when it was brought to my attention, years ago. (See the 2001 FAQ.) I said something right before both version 6 came out, with no inclusion in the guide. Same with version 7; I again said, in plenty of time, that they ought to include that info, since it would help both them and us. And they did not do it; the "Cat and Mouse" game listed in the DPCG #7 has no added info, other than its name. (That's inexcusable, in my personal opinion.) On the other hand, at least they are interested in finding out more about the idea that one big, central company may possibly have been manufacturing 'pirate carts' for the 2600... sooner or later, hopefully, they will figure out that whether they like the idea or not, that UA Limited is in their world as well as ours, and so on. The danger to researchers, of course, is that the Atari guys will just throw out any puzzle peices that don't seem to fit into their world view. Those bits and peices could be just what Arcadia researchers need, however, to get closer to grasping concepts such as who UA Limited was, and what their relationship was to Philips, etc. I am proud of our efforts, since the Atari guys seem to have gotten the spirit of what we're doing; the "serious" research efforts, where guys like us tore carts apart, to read silk-screened messages on ROM chips, to see who made them, and when they made them, and so on. I am not saying we should take all the credit, but I'm sure we inspired at least a few people, to do more than just look up cart part numbers in catalogs, and stop there? Oh well... just a few random thoughts. -- Ward Shrake -- 699 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Sep 27, 2002 7:41am Subject: Re: Introduction, compatibility list, etc. commie_fan Any further word on those carts? As noted before, I am no longer in a position to do archiving chores, but my curiousity about these carts still remains. "Crazy Wall" was presumed to be "Crazy Climber" by some experts on this console, but we all want to be 100% sure it is, byte-for-byte, after it eventually goes to PeT or someone, to be archived. "Super Bug" is, from all appearances in Retro Rene's online catalog, a unique game we've never seen before. That would definitely be a prize, in terms of having it archived, and available as a ROM image. "Space Hawk" is of some interest to me... I have to wonder if it is the elusive non-legalized "Phoenix" clone that I suspects exists, but none of us has actually located yet? Any word on whether or not this game is (a) some kind of Phoenix / Space Vultures game, and (b) if it is, if it includes the "mothership" stage that Adam Trionfo all but proved most likely was written at some point, and deleted later on? -- Ward Shrake -- 701 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Oct 1, 2002 7:28am Subject: Licensed games versus illegal clones commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: > > When it loads you can see the > three rows of dots at the top > of the screen, you can also see > the two circus acrobats and the > the 'apparatus' (see-saw thing). > If you compare this to the coin-op > version it is immediately apparent > that they are the same game. Sorry, you lost me on that explanation. I agree it is a copy; that is nearly self-explanatory, to we game historians. I had asked what made you think it was a LICENSED copy of the game, and that you did not answer, so I must ask again; why do you think/say it was a LICENSED clone? James, fairly often I get the impression that you're reinventing the wheel. It seems you are assuming there is nothing in the Digital Press Collectors Guide, versions 6 or 7, that you do not already know about? I doubt that. You do yourself a disservice not to read that. Nothing else on the internet can touch it; not even my own FAQ's on the Arcadia 2001 web site that I have hosted up on DP's site. It is where all of our research -- everyone's -- is combined, in one single source. Nothing else is as current, or as debugged, or as reliable. Period. No offense, but you sort of have to prove yourself to this group, or we just refuse to put faith in what a "newcomer" has to say. This is because tons of disinformation spread for ages, until we all put our collective feet down, and worked hard some months ago, to seperate fact from fiction by way of in-our-hands proof, over "so and so's web site says" proof. For instance, the more hardcore among us insist on visual proof that a cart both (a) exists at all, and (b) really belongs to this console group; meaning, that it is not being accidentally mislabeled, as a cart that will end up, under inspection, being for some incompatible system. The bar is pretty high, around here. We can almost -- almost -- take new cart names we have never heard of, on a preliminary "maybe" basis. But when a person says a game is licensed because it looks like the game it is based on, guys like myself tend to mentally downgrade the credibility status of the person making such a statement. We have to; it is the only logical way we can collectively learn about the Arcadia. -- Ward Shrake -- 702 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Oct 2, 2002 9:21am Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones atrionfo I agree with Ward, more proof is needed to prove that a game is licensed from the Arcade to a videogame console. It's very easy to make a clone of an arcade game. In the late 1970's and early 1980's, before Atari went wild in court, many clones were made (as if we all didn't know this). Ward has even suggested that many of the Arcadia games were changed to avoid getting into trouble with Atari; Ward's theory makes good sense. Unless there is good reason to even just suggest that the game is licensed (not just a rip-off, or even a 100% clone that was supposed to eventually be licensed) then we as a group must consider the game a rip-off/unlicensed game. Ward wrote: >> It seems you [James] are assuming there is nothing in the Digital Press Collectors Guide, versions 6 or 7, that you do not already know about? >> I have to agree with Ward there! The DP Guide has got some of the best information available anywhere on most of the game system. The guide does have some flaws, but even those flaws can be overlooked, as the book is looked upon as a this-is-it-until-it's-perfect kinda thing. I co-wrote the Astrocade section, and there is more in that section on the Astrocade cartridges than you will find anywhere on my Astrocade site (Bally Alley). Get yourself the DP Guide- it's cheap. If you knew how much sweat and tears went into those pages for each section you would not hesitate. It's Chuck Full 'O Goodness. >> No offense, but you sort of have to prove yourself to this group, or we just refuse to put faith in what a "newcomer" has to say. >> I don't think anything that you say is wrong on purpose, but it may be wrong by accident. It's not a bad idea to say, "I think the game may be licensed- what do you guys think?" Together, the people that make-up this group know more about the Arcadia than anyone except those that were involved in the Arcadia's creation (okay, that's just a guess, but I bet I'm not far off). >> tons of disinformation spread for ages, until we all put our collective feet down, and worked hard some months ago, to separate fact from fiction by way of in-our-hands proof, over "so and so's web site says" proof. >> Exactly. It very easy to come up with a theory and post it on a group, it's much more difficult to prove that theory. I know Ward thinks that people will think that Arcadia will have 28K of RAM until the end of time, and he may just be right. >> For instance, the more hardcore among us insist on visual proof that a cart both (a) exists at all, and (b) really belongs to this console group; meaning, that it is not being accidentally mislabeled, as a cart that will end up, under inspection, being for some incompatible system. >> It's "easy" to prove A- either someone has it or they don't. Many of these carts were released in countries where the primary language is not English, and that makes it more difficult for us. Part B is not so easy to prove- a cart must be lent out to someone with the skill to get the ROM onto a PC and then burn an EPROM that fits into an Arcadia (or compatible console). Even then there will be people with doubts. >> The bar is pretty high, around here. We can almost -- almost -- take new cart names we have never heard of, on a preliminary "maybe" basis. But when a person says a game is licensed because it looks like the game it is based on, guys like myself tend to mentally downgrade the credibility status of the person making such a statement. We have to; it is the only logical way we can collectively learn about the Arcadia. >> Speaking for myself only, I want to hear every idea that people have, provable or not, otherwise no one gets to benefit from information that might be true. However, this information should be prefaced with a "I think" or a "maybe." Adam 705 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 3, 2002 6:10pm Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones [long] mc71de Hello Amigansoftware, hello group. [Attention! This one is *really* long. You better get some snacks...] Maybe it will help you to understand what's going on here when i try to explain some things. As a side note: i'm watching Ward's activities since begin of this year and read all posts of this list. But i'm not (yet?) part of the 'conspiration', and this is my first posting here... So off we go... --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: [previous posting removed] > I can't prove that Circus was a licensed port. However it seems > probable, given Emerson's policy of changing the name of a game > when it was an unlicensed clone (eg. Space Squadron, Robot Killer, > etc.). I've certainly not seen anything to suggest that it is > *not* a licensed port. If a game has the same name as the coin-op, > and plays exactly the same, it is probably fair to assume that it > is the official conversion unless there is reason to believe > otherwise. The Wise Man says: 'I Know That I Know Nothing'. I say: If you claim it's licensed, you must proof it! Ask the maker of the original! Put the culprit in chains and throw him in front of the lions! (oops... wrong scene...) But honestly: You give some indicia (grrr... should have learnt my vocabulary harder back then...), some arguments, which in a videogame of today i would say would make it safe to assume that it has an official license. But remember: We are dealing with stuff of the early 1980ies. It's just when Atari put it's competitors to (american) court and claimed the copyright for PacMan et al., and it was absolutely not clear who would win. In other regions of the world the situation was even worse: here in germany it took until 1986/7 to establish an equal level of copyright protection (I'm not a lawyer, and i might be wrong for one year, but this is what i remember from reading 'Happy Computer' back then [to Adam: sorry, i don't know their ISSN, maybe they didn't even have one...] On the other hand, we don't even see a message like 'Licensed by xyz' on screen or on the cartridge/box (or is there any?) If it was a License, they probably would have wanted [Emerson/UA/whomever] to mention it. And here is where Ward's theory comes in: have a game that's too similar (so it would fail in a lawsuit) and modify it enough to make it an intellectual/ artistic work of its own. (Famous here: KC Munchkin for the Odyssey2: three ghosts vs four in PacMan *g*) So what do we have: some arguments that fail in the environment of the early 1980ies, and some that speak against a license. Go ask the maker of the original, and you're welcome. BTW: Exactly this is what all the Digital Archaeology is about: sorting out who produced what, who gave licenses for what, and who bought licenses for what. One last example: as you probably don't know, the design of thecase and handcontrols of the Palladium system (also known as Polybrain, and the oldest of the 'Arcadias') looks as a 'younger brother' of the 'Interton VC4000' (a kind of prequel to 'Arcadia' with more limited technical capabilities). So what tells this to the interested reader? Almost nothing! Did Interton Electronics really (attention!) 'license' it's casework to someone else, to use it on a strong competitor? Is 'Polybrain' indeed interton in disguise? (BTW.: Palladium doesn't really count, as it was Mail-Order-Firm- Neckermann's own brand, much as Sears sold VCSs and Intellivisions with a 'Sears'-sticker on them) Maybe the casework was designed by someone completely different, and Interton's contract wasn't strong enough to prevent the design to be resold for another video games console? Were these the roots for Interton to file bankruptcy lateron, or were they (the other way around) trying to gain some money to prevent it? So many possibilities, and yet even more confusion than before... But we're not yet finished: [Ward Shrake recommends the Digital Press Guide. Is this a shameless plug, as he's the author of the 'Arcadia'-Chapter in there? > I haven't read this. You definitely should... > However if it is as important as it seems then perhaps it > would be a good idea to post the relevant sections somewhere? No, it would definitely not. It is (attention!) a matter of license. The editor Joe Santulli (also a member of this list) and the authors (including Ward Shrake, Adam Trionfo, Dieter K"nig, and many, many more (hope i missed no-one i should know of...) took great effort to put this masterpiece into existance; see the message-archive of may and june, and pay attention to the term 'pull the Ward'. That guy even refused to sleep, just to get his chapter as up-to-date and complete as possible. I think he deserves every cent he may get for his work. If he should decide to give you an electronic copy of his work, fine. but i have the strong feeling he won't, and Joe won't either. [more true Adam Trionfo's words snipped) Please don't take that personally. But Ward (who started all that craze; didn't mum always say: don't believe in strangers, do not take anything from the elder man? Now it's too late, now we're stuck with his ideas...) has learned it the hard way. He took over the VIC20- Cartlist some years ago, and found it unusable. Too much rumor, and it was impossible to sort out who said what and when. So the only possibility was to start up from scratch, rendering years of work of other list-keepers useless. And in the case of the Arcadia and it's clones, we've seen too much crap copied (without license!) from one webpage to another. Just mention '28 Kbyte of RAM' to Ward, and his cry and scream will be heard all over the west of the united states. So i think it's just the right thing to ask for a proof. We all believe you that you *think* you remember Super- Bug, but as i said before: bring us the culprit, or at least a scan of the box or the manual... Until then, your memory of 'Super-Bug' will help us not to give up on looking for it (Super-Debugging, so to say... sorry, but i couldn't resist on that pun! No offense to you, but just a joke on that bugger of a game, ESCAPEing the efforts of the Digital Archaeologists for so long a time...) But we will not change it's status on the cart-list. BTW: Even human Memory can be failing. I recently did some 'Analog Archaeology [TM]' and came across this website: http://www.joysjapanimation.com/Fer/2xl/types/type0.html Enjoy! But don't laugh about this guy. Maybe one day he might find out he was right, and anyway it can happen to us all. As for me, it cost me real money. Not much, but if i had remembered Ward's lists the right way, i wouldn't have spent it. Bad luck, and up to the next one: > If this is not proof then I don't know what is. The culprit in chains, with or without those lions (ooops, once again repeating myself...) > I even know where to get the ROM image... [snip] Ahhh, here it finally boils down to something useful... But remember: feel free to ask, but do not try to push him into something. You may well explain to him how much we would appreciate him letting his cart be dumped. But don't put pressure on him or get on his nerves. We've been waiting a long time already, we can stand yet longer. One day it will happen, but we don't want to leave a trace of enemies all over this world. And anyway, feel free to invite him to this list... One other problem arises though: Our 'one-and-only-chief-dumper' has recently retired from this job, and he is in the US anyway. Not really neighbourhood of Finland. At the moment i know two possible 'dumpers' in middle europe, but i don't know if PeT is already set-up to do such a job, and the other person will need another three or four weeks to get ready. > Also the fact that it was in the Ormatu catalogue. Forget it! Back then, catalogs were nothing more than a 'wishlist' (can't find 'unverbindliche Absichtserkl,rung' in my dictionary- any german-speaking lawyer around, please?) The programmer of one of the Interton-games mentioned recently, that 'his' game had been announced in the catalogs for years, when he came in with his work. it wasn't exactly what was advertised, but a few chamges in the look of the sprites did the job to make the urgently-needed game. Now imagine this console hadn't been around for five years or something, but only for maybe three. Et voila, we had a game in the catalog, that never were real. Not a single line of code, or a single byte of sprite. Nada. Nothing. Goarnix. (The last one was Bavarian, by the way. And speaking of Sprite: Anyone like a Coke? Pepsi? Light? Still Mineral Water, Gerolsteiner's well? Good. We're finished soon!) [end of commercial break] > However I still see this listed only as "rumoured". And that's what it will stay, until prove of existance is given, in a form and by means stated earlier, such means including, but not necessarily beeing solely, bringing the culprit... (OK, OK, please stop, no more beating please, i know it is a silly comparison... i won't use it again today anyway...) [Adam likes ideas clearly marked as such] You should really get an issue of the Digital Press Guide! It's all in there! Really! But if you don't use terms like 'license' carefully enough, we will one day get another Young Archaeologist coming in and confidently say: 'look, circus was a license. i found the proof. it's on mister miller's page' (who 'borrowed' his wisdom from mister smith, who once copied from your document) Don't think i'm making this one up, it has already happened. Ward likes it to find things he found out ages ago mailed to him as the latest wisdom... So we are all hobbyists, but i think we can use care of what we put into the world, and how. Well never be able to avoid that someone rips off our texts and mangles them until they say just the opposite. But i think it is worth the effort to choose our words carefully and give them a 'good' one to chew on. -mc 706 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 3, 2002 7:14pm Subject: License weirdness [short] Was: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones [long] mc71de Hi group, it's me again... Maybe you wonder why i didn't say anything against putting arcadia games online. Well, first, they didn't care for the last 20 years. That is definitely no argument, but it makes feeling good... And second, let them come and claim it was their roms! But this time i want to see the proof in writing. All the contracts, transferring the rights on the games, and the binary files representing said games when put into the memory of special apparatus being a video games player, and the right to reproduce said binary files representing said games when offered said apparatus... you get the picture, all the legalese without a gap back in time behind the foundation of UA and Polybrain, and maybe right into the dungeons of Philips Light Bulb Fabrications, Eindhoven, The Netherlands. BTW: Isn't it strange that Philips Europe at one point developed games for its own Odyssey2/G7000, containing Intel-chips, and at the same time delivered it's own (Signetics-)chips to the competitors. We know that Philips developed what should become the earlier Interton games. And if I remember correctly, it was already suggested by other people that Philips might have continued software-developement even into the 'Palladium- Arcadia-Era', leading in (attention! wild guess!) mysterious UA being a spin-off of Philips. So P. would have been its own competitor... weird... I think it was not so good an idea to make the US Patent and Trademark Database my night lecture... (no, nothing arcadia. just that 2-xl bugger) Keep gaming everyone, -mc P.S.: Could that person having an interview with the T?rck brothers on schedule please mail me? I cannot find that message in the archive anymore. Thanks. 707 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 6:17am Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones kiwigame > The way to clear up the issue for once and for all would be to email > Exidy and ask them whether they ever licensed "Circus" to be ported > to this console family. errrr One of the Problems is that this game is in the class of "generic" and many companies made copies/versions of it without the need to license it. The Arcade versions came out in 1978 before licenses seemed to be a big thing. (I think there actually a few more versions as well Gremlin? did one) Exidy "Circus" http://www.klov.com/C/Circus.html Bally/Midway "Clowns" http://www.klov.com/C/Clowns.html Taito "Acrobat" http://www.klov.com/A/Acrobat.html In the case of the Arcadia we probably know this games orgins as it also exists in the Interton/Acetronic Library as "Circus" and theres no mention of "licensed" anywhere on the box/manuals for these system (yes I checked my copies) + it exists for a few other early cart systems as well. Its a game everyone cloned! Its also exists on the 2600 where interestingly enough Atari called it "Circus Atari" (& registered that name!) but no where on the Atari versions does it say "licensed" The only spanner in the works is that the Commodore 64 cartridge version of "Clowns" WAS Licensed ((c)Bally/Midway 1982) :) .mike 708 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 8:45am Subject: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? mc71de Hello everyone, i just found this Ebay auction for a Polybrain game named 'Battle': http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1384662142 Is it just me, or does the small line of text really read 'Video- Panzerspiel'? Given the fact that the Polybrain and Palladium releases share the same box artwork[1] (i know this for shure with 'Star Chess'/ 'Video Schach'), maybe someone recognizes the picture? I did already talk ebay member 'classic-collector' into trying to get this one, and if that should happen, i'll let you know about possible ROM differences ASAP. Additionally, i'll now put the relevant pictures into the group's file area, box artwork section, for everyone's viewing pleasure... Enjoy! And tell me if you think we now do have an official english name for 'Video Panzerspiel' (english: video tank game) or not... -mc [1] as i already pointed out elsewhere, to my knowledge 'Palladium' is/was just Neckermann's own label for technical products they couldn't or didn't want to sell under the original brand name, much like what Sears did with the Atari VCS, or Radio Shack with all those CASIO calculators. I personally do not believe 'Big N' Neckermann ever had something like an R&D department... 709 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 3:36pm Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones slapdash26 You need to not be offended if we say "show, don't tell", because we've all heard similar stories before. The liars make it harder for the the honest, but we're trying to set down hard facts, not testimonials. But until this happens, we don't have proof to give when others ask us where WE heard about. For you it's first and second hand. For us it's second and third. For those asking us, it's third and fourth hand info, and very tenuous now. Mind you, he wouldn't HAVE to dump it -- scans of the cart and screen shots would go a long way toward convincing us and other skeptics. >Also the fact that it was in the Ormatu >catalogue. However I still see this listed only as "rumoured". Catalogs have been incorrect before, therefore we tend not to rely on them. >Everything in the document I wrote is to be considered "tentative". >It explicitly states that the authoritative reference on these >matters is this message group. That is why it contains statements to >the effect of "this game is a port of that game"; it's not intended >as a research document, it's more of a gamer's guide, to give them a >quick overview of what games were made and what their equivalents >are. Retrogamers are probably not going be worried about whether >Emerson did or did not sign a contract with Exidy, rather they are >going to want to know whether the Arcadia "Circus" plays the same as >coin-op "Circus". The problem is that misinformation has a tendency to get around, so it's always easier to nip it in the bud whenever and wherever one can. [LATER] >The way to clear up the issue for once and for all would be to email >Exidy and ask them whether they ever licensed "Circus" to be ported >to this console family. Does anyone actually have contact info for any ex-Exidy people? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 710 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 3:46pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? slapdash26 At 10:45 PM +0000 10/3/02, mc71de wrote: >i just found this Ebay auction for a Polybrain game named 'Battle': >http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1384662142 >Is it just me, or does the small line of text really read 'Video- >Panzerspiel'? Certainly appears to. >Given the fact that the Polybrain and Palladium >releases share the same box artwork[1] (i know this for shure >with 'Star Chess'/ 'Video Schach'), maybe someone recognizes the >picture? The Palladium game is just "Video-Panzerspiel" according to a picture I have. It seems like the Polybrain carts have an English title that is the same as either the Arcadia and/or MPT-03 titles, and a German title that is the same as the Palladium titles. >And tell me if you think we now do have an official english name >for 'Video Panzerspiel' (english: video tank game) or not... I suspect it's just "Tanks A Lot" on the Emerson list, but I'm not basing that on anything but the fact that it's the only tank game for the Arcadia that I can think of. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 711 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 4:21pm Subject: New stuff up on Ebay stefanpiasecki Hi there, I've just put up more of my stuff on ebay. Some of the previous bidders never paid, so some items came back for sale. If you want, check it out. http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=steve-vx&completed=0&sort=3&since=- 1&include=0&page=1&rows=25 Thanks Stefan (steve-vx) 712 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 5:28pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? mc71de Hi Russ, that's exactly what i was afraid of... --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: [Battle = v-Panzerspiel?] > Certainly appears to. So i have to try to get that bugger... If someone's watching, remember: the classic-collector always bids in the last minute... > The Palladium game is just "Video-Panzerspiel" according to a > picture I have. A picture of the cart, i guess. They are really a masterpiece of minimalism. At least they took different colors for the different games... Same btw with that chess game of which i put pictures into the group's files/scans/box-artwork area: Palladium 'Video-Schach', Polybrain 'Video-Chess'[sic!] and 'Video-Schach' beyond it. So, does anyone have (a picture of) a box of Palladium V-Psp.? And please, don't tell me i'll have to get the Polybrain chess game too. I definitely won't, i have enough with my Palladium one. (check the auction i pointed to, then list that seller's other items. Five Polybrain carts in total. Disclaimer: i don't know or have any other relation to that guy...) > It seems like the Polybrain carts have an English title that > is the same as either the Arcadia and/or MPT-03 titles, and a > German title that is the same as the Palladium titles. More interestingly, the Palladium manuals (at least the four i have) do also include an english version of the german text. Not even a mere translation! And even of much better quality than the later Emerson or Schmid ones i have seen. If someone likes, i can provide scans. (Text alone wouldn't help. *loads* of diagrams... ) Does anyone know whether Neckermann did business outside of germany back then, or if Palladium stuff surfaced anywhere else in the world? Too bad i can't give proof Palladium was just N.s 'OEM-brand', as we would call it in today's terms. The only thing i know is, i have never seen 'Palladium' stuff (they used it also on TVs, VCRs, everything electronic) 'in the wild', but their 'Catalog World' is full of it. (They really call their catalog 'KatalogWelt'...) > I suspect it's just "Tanks A Lot" on the Emerson list, but I'm not > basing that on anything but the fact that it's the only tank game > for the Arcadia that I can think of. So what do you offer for a bet? My eprommer is already flipping its release lever up and down... let's hope this auction doesn't get mad... but anyway, i'll ask the seller if i can't get it; maybe we can at least get a transscript of the manual... Personally, i still believe in the 'rebadging' theory. And remember: Every 'Palladium' cart examined so far has 'Polybrain' etched onto the 'cart-board' (pun not intended, but unavoidable [1]) > -- ^^^ Good! A full-blown signature separator. These get rare in the days of outlook express. Half the german usenet is about that subject, and we use to call that program 'OjE', meaning 'oh dear...' in english... -mc [1] Name the writer i borrowed this from and win a prize! Hint: German, 20. century, has (in a wider sense) something in common with all that craze. Mail suggestions to mc71de@.... Prize to be sent via email. Sorry no conversion into cash! 713 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 5:25pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? YES stefanpiasecki Hi, both games are identical and most important: it is NOT Tanks a lot. It is a completely different, addictive, iso-3D game for two players where you can capture tanks, drive around with them, lay mines and leave those tanks again just to snap another one. This is a very unique game and is not available for any other console of this family. Stefan 714 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 5:31pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? YES stefanpiasecki I answered this one before, but somehow my post was discarded, so if two posts of the same content appear, don't worry. The two versions named here are identical. But "Panzerspiel" is NOT "Tanks a lot". It is a very addictive, 3D-iso 2 player game where you can walk around, capture tanks, lay mines, leave tanks and take other ones. Of course your tanks can fire, too. I'd rather call it "Combat2" as it seems to be an enhanced version of the classic (of course not licensed), because obviously those developers said "good enough, but what about some more features and possibilities?". Unfortunately they didn't have time or ressources for a proper 1- player mode. And those Palladium controllers suck. I had about 6-8 consoles in my life and all controllers sucked except the very last one. There were obviously two versions of this console: the early ones in a big greenish box and latter ones with higher serials in a black/red box. Here the controller is almost perfect and games like these are really fun if you play them with good controllers. Stefan 715 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 5:39pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? YES mc71de Hi Stefan, so what can you offer as a proof? This group's requirements are astonishingly high, you know *puts tongue in cheek*... You don't happen to have any 'Polybrain' instruction manual to tell me what they wrote where Palladium ones have the address of Neckermann's technical customer support? (You only get support if you're a technical customer. Normal people: no chance... *eg*) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Hi, both games are identical and most important: it is NOT Tanks a > lot. It is a completely different, addictive, iso-3D game for two > players where you can capture tanks, drive around with them, lay > mines and leave those tanks again just to snap another one. > This is a very unique game and is not available for any other console > of this family. > Stefan 716 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 6:18pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? YES stefanpiasecki Oh no, you want proofs... what about this one: - I found this whole game system (Palladium) being ROM-compatbile with the Arcadia first - I sent Ward my copy of "Panzerspiel" for dumping - the English section of the Panzerspiel-manual calls it "Battle" - I have all Palladium carts and many Polybrain carts and they are all the same, all they differ in is the outer packaging and manual and the only difference is the "brand"-name I did not compare them byte-by-byte however, but it is obvious that they all were produced and released at about the same time and only had different brandings for different markets: Palladium for Neckermann and Polybrain for markets outside the Neckermann universe. Did you ever hear about the Mr. Altus system? It is again the same than the Palladium AND Polybrain system (inside and outside - except the brand-sticker) and has the same games, just that the games boxes are silver instead of black. I guess there are some packshots in the pictures-section. Otherwise I can mail you some. Stefan 717 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 7:34pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? YES mc71de Hi Stefan, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > I answered this one before, but somehow my post was discarded, so > if two posts of the same content appear, don't worry. Yes, it's there, and i replied to it. Same symptom: message seemed to be lost. Just wait a little and try to refresh the 'messages'- page. Seems Yahoo! sometimes has a little delay; others have reported delays of several days... > The two versions named here are identical. But "Panzerspiel" is > NOT "Tanks a lot". ... and it is already dumped! See TANKGAME.BIN. (actually makes sense, as it's the translation of 'Panzerspiel') But i'd like to have it anyway, and maybe type in the manual. And no, when i said i'd only buy 'Video-Lexikon' and 'Video- Panzerspiel', and no other carts besides the very few 'ultra-common' ones i already have, i did *not* know that auction... > It is a very addictive, 3D-iso 2 player game where > you can walk around, capture tanks, lay mines, leave tanks and > take other ones. Of course your tanks can fire, too. I'll never understand what is addictive with *that*. And to play it against myself is boring, not only in MESS, but i guess even on the 'real thing'... > I'd rather call it "Combat2" as it seems to be an enhanced > version of the classic (of course not licensed), That bad word again :-) But i think 'product names' were very well protected back then (we'll need a law historian one day...), but 'software' was just not explicitly covered by existing law. I still remember the reports in 'Happy Computer' (Markt& Technik Verlag, Haar bei M?nchen) about 'protection of animated pictures' being misused to juristically get hold of illegal copies. And that's 'warez' copies, not even 'game re-programmed on another system'! Crazy times they were... Talking about crazy: Haar (just as 'hair'..) near Munich was not only home of 'Happy Computer'(well... everything home computer 1983+), '64er' (commodore mag), 'Power Play' (computer games) and 'Video Games' (console games, but later, 1992+), but also it was the location of Munich's 'Home for the mentally disordered', read: crazy people. Rumor has it that the writers of those magazines sometimes couldn't tell for shure whether they were still 'outside' or already 'inside'... > because obviously those developers said "good > enough, but what about some more features and possibilities?". > Unfortunately they didn't have time or ressources for > a proper 1-player mode. I think that's a matter of computing power of 2650 systems at less than 3.5 Mhz, almost no RAM and limited ROM space. Same with Starchess. Nice graphics, but 'intelligence' limited to checking for allowed/ disallowed moves. And you can't even use it as an 'electronic chessboard' for real chess, since it doesn't know the 'rochade' nor (i think) the 'knight may move two places from the home position'- rule. Leave alone 1-player-mode. Didn't the VC4000 have even two chess games that could compute moves on its own? BTW: Did these (Interton #13, #22) display a chessboard? I'll explain later why i ask that, but i must dig out my scanner first. > And those Palladium controllers suck. We'll discuss that privately; but if it leads to anything useful, the result should make its way into the group... -mc P.S.: The address of M&T was (and is still) 'Hans-Pinsel-Strasse 2', where 'Hans Pinsel' is said to be the psychiatrist who founded that hospital. Now: would you trust into anyone named 'John Paintbrush'? Maybe not... 718 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 4, 2002 8:10pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? YES mc71de --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Oh no, you want proofs... Just wanted to tease you... i thorougly read all those messages and know that you are one of the authorities of this group. Hence the 'tongue in cheek'. Just simulated the 'silly newbie'... I understand the group had discovered the term 'pulling the ward', for whatever reason... now how about 'pulling the leg'? ;-) > what about this one: > - I found this whole game system (Palladium) being ROM-compatbile > with the Arcadia first And i can prove it, and show up the differences. But that's easy since someone (Ward?) has found the service manual for the Arcadia, containing the schematic. Palladium/ Neckermann was kind enough to put it into the 'owner's manual'. 'Neckermann macht's m"glich' [Neckermann makes it possible], as their slogan once was... > - I sent Ward my copy of "Panzerspiel" for dumping I almost imitated a german commercial saying 'Ward... who on earth is Ward?' But i think that would be tasteless. (As the advertised product...) > - the English section of the Panzerspiel-manual calls it "Battle" Good! :-) > - I have all Palladium carts and many Polybrain carts and they are > all the same, all they differ in is the outer packaging and manual > and the only difference is the "brand"-name My words. That's what my educated guess expected... > I did not compare them byte-by-byte however, You should change that situation... > but it is obvious that they all were produced and released > at about the same time and only had different brandings for > different markets: For me, it was just 'educated guesswork'. But i would have doubted my 'common sense' if it had turned out others > Palladium for Neckermann and Polybrain for markets outside > the Neckermann universe. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ :-)) > Did you ever hear about the Mr. Altus system? It is again the same > than the Palladium AND Polybrain system (inside and outside - Sorry, i missed Mr. Altus by now. Think i didn't learn my vocabulary :-) Anyway, tell him i greet him when you meet him next time... [Scans of Mr. Altus boxes] Thanks for your offer, but not at the moment. (Could anybody please explain to me why this Piasecki guy always wants to send me scans of something???) And before you again think i would mean that honest, Stefan: ;-) -mc 720 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Oct 5, 2002 4:02pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? slapdash26 At 7:25 AM +0000 10/4/02, Stefan Piasecki wrote: > both games are identical and most important: it is NOT Tanks a lot. Interesting... --- At 7:28 AM +0000 10/4/02, mc71de wrote: >> The Palladium game is just "Video-Panzerspiel" according to a >> picture I have. >A picture of the cart, i guess. No, the box. I've uploaded the pic to the files area under "box scans". >> -- > ^^^ Good! A full-blown signature separator. These get rare in the >days of outlook express. I prefer my email as plain text, not rich text, and especially not HTML. Though I have to admit, as much as I hate top-posting, having Outlook at work was much better than the Lotus Notes we have now... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 721 From: "mc71de" Date: Tue Oct 8, 2002 10:06pm Subject: The Elektor book - english version mc71de Hello group, just lurked around a little bit at the 'German Digital Library', and guess what i found: Author: Holmes, P. Title: The TV Games Computer : an exciting introduction to microprocessors Publisher: Canterbury : Elektor Publ. Year 1981 248 pages ISBN/ISSN 0-905705-08-4 Location: Universit,tsbibliothek Hannover(Germany) (i searched the german databases only, so it should be available elsewhere, too) And i also found some info on that Holmes guy in an old 'Elektor' magazine. Just give me a few days to translate that article- it's not too exciting anyway... -mc 722 From: "mc71de" Date: Tue Oct 8, 2002 10:34pm Subject: Re: Possible variant of 'Video-Panzerspiel'? mc71de --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 7:28 AM +0000 10/4/02, mc71de wrote: > >> The Palladium game is just "Video-Panzerspiel" according to a > >> picture I have. > > >A picture of the cart, i guess. > > No, the box. I've uploaded the pic to the files area under > "box scans". A very nice picture, indeed. Thanks a lot :-) And as i expected: Same picture on box. But i think Stefan already gave enough explanation... > > I prefer my email as plain text, not rich text, and especially not > HTML. Though I have to admit, as much as I hate top-posting, > having Outlook at work was much better than the Lotus Notes we > have now... In my opinion it's all a matter of setting the right options, or trying to behave according to the rules. But that nasty OE quirk to send instead of the proper ** does really no harm. OK., some newsreaders rely on it to automatically not quoting the signature in a follow-up message, but you have to trim text anyway. So it gets annoying to read messages ranting about it everywhere in de.ALL... Not to talk about 'signature viruses' using the 'BEGIN ... END' bug. Especially fun in PASCAL newsgroups... But to give an expression of what 'Battle' looks like, i'll post a MESS screenshot of it to the file area. Since i'm a strong believer in peace, i spoiled the game and had the two tank commanders meet next to the big yellow building (those two blue and cyan blobs...). In MESS (great piece of software btw!) it's even more spectacular! The 'running legs' animation continues all the time, so it actually looks like the two guys were dancing! Just try the tankgame.bin from the ROM archive. Maybe Joe Santulli wants to add my screenshot to the page? Enjoy! -mc 723 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue Oct 8, 2002 10:41pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Temporary_files/battle-screenshot.gif Uploaded by : mc71de Description : A screenshot of 'Battle/ Video-Panzerspiel', taken with MESS 0.56, Video-Computer-Game, tankgame.bin You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/battle-screenshot.gif To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mc71de 724 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Oct 9, 2002 1:43am Subject: Re: Elektor TV Spielcomputer Book (in German) scanned mc71de Hi Peter & group, are these scans available for download somewhere? I am currently trying to get a copy of the book via library exchange, but a quick look at the book would be very helpful to me at the moment... Sadly, my mail accounts are not capable of handling such large files I think this was offered at one point, but cannot find that message anymore. The message archive search does not like my searches somehow :-( -mc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > Hello everybody, > > I scanned Stefan's fotocopy of this book with 200 dpi, > lineart(black/white). > Is somebody interested in this 12.5MByte big tiff-file archive? > Where should I upload it to? [...] 725 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Oct 9, 2002 1:53am Subject: Re: location mc71de Hi all, think it's time to add me to this list. I still do miss some names on it, so sign in everybody! -mc - Germany [1] , languages: german, english, latin :-) Matt - Michigan Adam - New York Charles - California Russ* - Illinois Stephan - Germany Ward - California [1] actually right in the middle between Cologne (Interton) and Aachen (Elektor). Not that it really matters... 726 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Oct 9, 2002 3:53am Subject: Re: The Elektor book - english version atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> Hello group, just lurked around a little bit at the 'German Digital Library', and guess what i found [The TV Games Computer : an exciting introduction to microprocessors]. >> Good work. I searched for this title for sale online just now with no luck, not that I expected to actually find it. Note, this work of mc71de is a followup to posting 576 (when I asked if anyone could find a translation of the German book). Let us know what else you find out (like if you get that English version in your hands...). Adam 727 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 8:30am Subject: Re: Digest Number 111 atrionfo >> Matt - Michigan Adam - New York [etc..] >> I live in New Mexico now. Is this list in the file section somewhere so that I can update it? Any lurkers care to add their name? It's neat to see how international this group (and therefore the Arcadia system) is. Adam 728 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 6:36pm Subject: Location List mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > >> > Matt - Michigan > Adam - New York > [etc..] > >> > > I live in New Mexico now. Sorry! I was so proud i finally managed to find that list, that i forgot about your move... > Is this list in the file section somewhere so No, we do only have the Ebay names' list. Maybe add it into that? > that I can update it? Feel free to do so :-) > Any lurkers care to add their name? Like me who lurked some four months... I do miss two people from Austria, but i think no-one should be put on the list without giving permission. Some people have info on their Yahoo! profile page (see 'members' listing at the arcadia2001consoles-Y!Group-Homepage), but when someone should decide to leave this group, that info is gone. But a list in the files area stays until someone edits it... remember what Ward said when he had to delete a message! > It's neat to see how international this group [...] is. Never forget that Interton 'First-and-only all-german video game' thing. Ebay.de is flooded with these machines, and they go for quite reasonable prices. (In relation, only very few games are offered... hmmm... did people realize after buying some three or four games that Atari was 'a little' more powerful?) > Adam -mc 729 From: "oboissea" Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 6:39pm Subject: Re: location oboissea Hi My infos: Olivier - France --- Olivier www.old-computers.com --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > Hi all, > think it's time to add me to this list. I still do miss some names > on it, so sign in everybody! > > -mc - Germany [1] , languages: german, english, latin :-) > > Matt - Michigan > Adam - New York > Charles - California > Russ* - Illinois > Stephan - Germany > Ward - California > > > [1] actually right in the middle between Cologne (Interton) and > Aachen (Elektor). Not that it really matters... 730 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 7:36pm Subject: Re: The Elektor book - english version mc71de Hi Adam, [english version of Elektor book located] > Good work. Not really. Actually I wanted to prove you wrong in that only the Congress Library has that book, world-wide. I mean we have the 'German Library' (forgot the official english name) that collects every book in germany (at least those officially published with an ISBN number...), and lots of public libraries. I just believed that those weren't covered by your research means, since you couldn't get their books anyway, so i tried it myself. > I searched for this title for sale online just now with no luck, > not that I expected to actually find it. Note, this work of > mc71de is a followup to posting 576 (when I asked if anyone > could find a translation of the German book). No, i just entered search words that also matched the english title. Pure accident! But i think you'll have a hard time to get the english version, too. To understand, let me briefly explain how 'elektor' works: (It's in an article of 1981, don't have the number at hand. Will post a scan in a few days...) Elektuur B.V., The Netherlands was founded in the early 1960s (in the Netherlands, obviously. OTOH even Eindhoven, city of Philips research center, big e-tech university. Goal was to develop circuits, produce printed circuit boards and publish a DIY electronics magazine called 'Elektuur' (surprise!) that explained those circuits and advertised the relating pcb's. (Unlike the german counterpart 'ELV', that came much later, they never sold kits, neither in parts nor completely assembled) By the years, Elektuur established similar mags (mostly called 'Elektor') in other european countries; e.g. germany came in 1972 and was located in Gangelt near Aachen (by now, they moved to Aachen itself...), also having a big e-tech university ('only' a TH? too lazy to look it up now...). Anyone of the german audience know Wolfgang Back of TV Show 'WDR Computerclub'? Back in the seventies he studied e-tech in Aachen and earned a few bucks with writing articles for Elektor! That man claims to intentionally use english versions of browsers because they have 'back' icons... (in german that name has got something to do with 'to bake', actually. ) But back to Elektor. The several localized mags shared of course their knowledge and developements (since a few years they are even a mere translation one of each other. At least that is what they claimed...), and in 1981(?) there were six 'Elektors', one of them in England. Guess what? That Paul Holmes was no-one else than the head of Elektor England, and right-hand of the 'Grand Chef' of Elektuur. This man (forgot the name, just wait a few days...) retired from Elektuur in '81, and Paul Holmes became Chief Editor of all the mags, and 'boss' of elektuur, b.v. And now for something completely different: Books! When they were very successful with something, Elektor published a book: 'formant', a music synthesizer in the seventies, 'EDITS', a digital model train control, 'junior', a 6502-based computer, the 'threehundred-and... corcuits' series with the best circuits of the mag, and many many more. Of course the books offered more space for data sheets, examples (for the computers), and so on. And now 'our' book: we should happily expect a netherlandish version, too (not that it would help us...), and we can consider the english version as published for the british market, with PAL TV encoder, and not sold in the U.S. . Today, Elektor publishes an english version of the mag in India, too, but as i understand not in 1981. So i don't know if it's easier for you to get a used british book than getting a german one... (Australia maybe? Don't know if they ever published down-under) So what we needed was someone wanting to spend his or her holidays in Hannover, germany, or who lives in the U.K. and wants to scan their university libraries... > Let us know what else you find out (like if you get that > English version in your hands...). Want a copy, eh? Have a license, do you? (just kidding. Will do what i can, but allow for time to process...) > Adam -mc 731 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 7:50pm Subject: Got two Bandai games stefanpiasecki Hi, yesterday I got two of the Bandai releases: Dr. Slump and Doraemon. I scanned the boxes and the cart-stickers and will upload them. I also digitized the game so that everybody can see how they look and play. Those AVIs are big (18 and 25 MB), so email me and I'll send you split RAR-archives if you want. In short: Dr. Slump: very novel game-play. You are a tiny character in a comic- like city. On the top of the screen there's a UFO landing site. Two funky aliens walk around and steal parts of buildings, cars etc. and bring them to the site to create their UFO. You can walk after them and by pressing fire, you shout at them which makes them fall over and, if they carry something, they'll drop it. You can then walk over the item, pick it up and bring it back to its previous location. You are loosing energy all the time. Sometimes a guy appears on the right side of the screen and leaves something that looks like a large tea- can - touch the can and you'll recover. If you loose all your energy, the aliens speed up building their UFO and once it is finished, they climb on top of it, the UFO starts and slowly (almost dancing to and fro) it flies out of the screen. Shows a coloured version of the comic character in the beginning of the game. Extra: on the back of the box you can see a funny painting of the UFO and inside these two aliens and the player character. This art only appears on the back of the box and I am quite sure that it was an alternate box cover (why should they otherwise invest in such a detailed picture and then only use it for the back of the box). Doraemon: although it looks like Route 16 and plays a little like it, it feels much different. I compared both yesterday evening. The main differences are: mice chase you (they look good), your character is a cat and looks a lot like this Southpark-character (the one who constantly hides in his jacket). Unlike Route 16, Doraemon gets really slow when one of the mice appears and even slower when the second one appears. But there's an extra. If you collect a ? and press fire, you see the complete labyrinth just like in Route 16 when you leave a room, but a small propeller appears above your head and you can fly to any other room you wish, making the game somewhat easier as it was surely meant for children. You can use this extra 3 times. Note the startscreen, when the face of the cat slowly comes up, very fancy effect. I'd say that Doraemon feels a bit more relaxed and almost adventure- like than Route 16, which is a much faster game in many aspects (there are also no slow-downs, so it feels much faster). In general: unlike the other Bandai releases the manual comes in plain black and white (the others were on glossy paper and coloured). Also, the boxes don't have any inlays (plastic or thick paper) like they usually have. They came shrinkwrapped, so these were not missing by accident. I believe that Bandai first bought the console and some games, then decided that they'd have to do something to boost sales and bought these TV characters' licenses (mentioned on the start-screen) and produced games around them. But the above mentioned elements seem to indicate that they already realised that they would have to start saving money, so that they only produced b/w-manuals etc. As we all know, these Bandai-only games range from #51-54, leaving out the late thirties and fourties. As far as I remember only about 15 of the usual games were chosen to be released by Bandai, so there must have been a reason why their own releases started at #50+. We know that there were about 37 different games released for the Arcadia family, so probably there were some more in development so that Bandai wisely decided to start their own games from #50 upwards? Just a theory Stefan 732 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 10, 2002 8:10pm Subject: Signetics Chips; link added mc71de Hi all, This time it's something for the hardware guys: The wiretap arcade archive is back online (to PeT: might this be a place to put it? Don't know if they like it, just comes to mind...), and i put a link to the 'signetics' section into the group's link area, 'research materials', very last link. There is the HUGE 2650 manual Ward pointed to, and (new? have never seen it before, however) a scan of the first page of the datasheet of the 2636 PVI and the 2621/2622 timing generators. Nothing really new, but maybe somehow helpful? Another question: Early Interton machines contain 'CT428' or similar labeled chips where we would expect '2650', '2636' chips. Do these beasts occur in other console types (leading to the conclusion that Signetics/Philips eventually renamed them), or are they 'Interton- specific', leading to the impression Interton wanted to disguise the identity of the chips they used? Christian Windler [1] describes the chips in his VC4000 as date- coded 7805 and 7807, february 1978. I'll have to look-up my machines; one must be a rather 'new' one (26xx chips, one board), the other of middle age. It has the 'CT42x' chips and the three daughterboards Chris describes, but the color encoder is not the 'TTL graveyard' that Chris describes and that is used in the two books ('Elektor' and 'Topp'), but already the single TEA 1001 corcuit used in the one-board machines. Hope all this is not already in the DPCG and i'm just making a fool of myself :-) Btw, Dieter: has the interview with Hans-Heinz Bieling been translatet to english, or even made its way into The Guide? If not, i'd like to help out, if i may (that license thingy again...) Sorry folks, that's all for today; have fun! -mc [1] http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt (also in the file area...) 734 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 5:03am Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! mc71de Not that anyone thinks i blindly follow the words of 'our master' Ward Shrake... I just searched the archive who posted pictures of the dictionary cart, and found this message #333: --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "commie_fan" wrote: > Hey, Sly and Stefan: now that I've seen the newly uploaded > Dictionary photos, with the mini-carts, I have to ask > this... what is the pin spacing on the mini-carts? > (I notice that there are 15 pins across, a 24-pin chip, > and a 28-pin socket.) > > The photo makes it seem like the pin spacing is 0.1 inch > per pin, or exactly the same as a standard chip. If that > is true, it is one more thing to add to our "think about" > pile, since it would be the same number of pins and the > same pin spacing as Emerson family cartridges. > > -- Ward Shrake -- Hope noone considers it unfair to discuss this while Ward is not instantly online; if i step on hhis toes, he'll rip me into pieces anyway, sooner or later :-) So here it goes: i don't believe so. Just happens that 2x15 pins at .1 inch is a fairly standard size of direct edge connectors. And 30 pins is a fairly comfortable size to carry the neccessary signal lines (min. 2 power, 8 data, 1 chip select, 15 address lines [yes, the 2650 has only 32K of address space! 4K are blocked by system registers; et voila: the Magic Number{TM}]). That's 26, and edge connectors are only produced in certain sizes. And the makers of that console(s) surely didn't want to pay for a custom-made thing. I wonder why they paid for a connector with those extra-long pins to reach deep into those carts. Of course it can be done with an old floppy cable; but you just cannot buy a press-on edge connector with 30 pins; next size is 34 (as used on 5 1/4 inch floppy drives). To make that a fail-safe Arcadia cart connector, you have to insert a .2 inch wide piece of circuit board material as a spacer. I think Ward explained that on one of his web sites once, but i did much the same to dump an Atari-XL cart many many years ago. Story is, that bugger was defective, and to circumvent Atari's auto-start mechanism, i connected it to my Commodore-128. I ended up with a bunch of files, all different (maybe just a bad solder joint at one of the data pins). Up to today, i didn't put the effort to it to combine them all into one hopefully working single file - 10 years or so later. As it was a sell-off, i couldn't get the same title in exchange, but had to take something else... But back to V-Lex, as i use to call it: Just observing the pin number and spacing, you could even get the idea a Palladium cart could work in a C64 (if jou take it out of it's case, it will even fit). But: KIDS DONT TRY THIS AT HOME!!! You will almost certainly fry one of the components, maybe both. But 2x22 pins at .1 inch is also just a standard size... And as for the mini-carts: For me it looks almost impossible that these share the signal layout of an Arcadia cart. I think it looks like the lines march happily straight- on under the chip, 1:1 putting the layout of such a rom onto the cart connector. But only a look at the back ok such a board can tell... What even worries me more in terms of dumping, is the fact that one of the address lines stays unused, but instead the m/-io line is used... and the 2650 really has a rather nasty I/O interface... a pity yahoos photo service managed to render the chip marking unreadable... and another thing: the together three roms have 24 pins each, and the maximum of a 24-pin ROM is 8K. 24k total would easily fit into the 32K address space, but not in 16K (as one address line is missing) So i really do expect some kind of bank switching :-( no matter when you can take the ROMs off and put them into an eprommer (unless you try to 'burn'them, that is *eg*). And looking at the back of the main board should give all the info neccessary to beef up the emulator. But until then, i wouldn't dare to do an adapter 'on the sketchboard' only... so, if anyone can easily tell what chip it is, living on the 'main' cart next to the rom, it would guide me on my way. i do expect some '74xxx' chip here, but everything is possible... That nice little gem has already missed to be #50 to be dumped, and i doubt there are enough roms to ever reach #75 or even #100 :-) Sorry for that long post again, but it was something i 'went pregnant with' since months, and i was already talking about unfinished projects earlier this evening - as i write this, it's 9 AM already... time for little children to go to bed :-) So expect amazing things to come, but don't nail us down to a timeline. After all it's a hobby, and it has to be fun... -mc (philosophic today...) 735 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:50am Subject: Re: Got two Bandai games mc71de Hi Amigansoftware, if you read a little bit between the lines, you'd get the picture that things are well on the way... Personally, i'm up to dumping what i think is a rom variant of Brain Quiz- most likely just a localization thing, but who knows... And then there's Battle!; won the Ebay auction but have not yet received the cart. Don't expect a new rom, but will type-in the manual (that has not been done yet, right?). If it is as picture- rich as the 'Video Schach' manual, i'll even make a simple-html zip archive of it. So i can hopefully dump Arcadia carts in the very near future, and Stefan lives 'next door' to me, speaking in global dimensions. He did already offer digitized videos and scans of these games, and hopefully we will work something out to get them dumped too. But as of yet, things are at a rather early stage- what if my eprommer goes nuts and kills my carts, and i can't afford a new one? What if something else gets in the way suddenly, delaying things a long time? My crystal glass ball is not as clear as it used to be... In other words, experience has told us to be careful with announcing things. Remember what Ward said: One day it will happen. Maybe not this year, maybe not next year. It has been waiting for ~20 years now, so be patient. (My words now:) Most of us are around 30 years old, so imagine how many decades it will take until we are not able to plug in games and use all sorts of tech equipment any more. (A german says 'don't talk about eggs that are not yet laid') So comes time, comes rom dump :-) Or, as it reads in many online ads: please allow for some weeks to process... -mc, promising nothing... P.S.: nice to hear from you anyway. Did already fear i had 'pissed you off' recently... not my goal, but indeed i was a bit upset. BTW: You're from Australia, right? If so: Is Elektor publishing their stuff at your country, or better, did they back in ~1980? --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" > wrote: > > Hi, yesterday I got two of the Bandai releases: Dr. Slump and > > Doraemon. I scanned the boxes and the cart-stickers and will upload > > them. I also digitized the game so that everybody can see how they > > look and play. Those AVIs are big (18 and 25 MB), so email me and > > I'll send you split RAR-archives if you want. > > Excellent! Now the next step of course is to get these two games > archived and uploaded... 736 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:22am Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > Not that anyone thinks i > blindly follow the words > of 'our master' > Ward Shrake... Anybody that does, should have some sense slapped into them! I don't even follow my own advice blindly, so I see no reason why anyone else should bother doing it. It isn't my message's intention that "I'm right and everyone else is wrong". My message is more like the Buddha's quote (which I regret I'm going to badly butcher -- sorry!) that said to question all teachings, even his, and not to put too much faith in anything that was said, just because of who said it. Accept things on their own weight and validity, after taking some time to study the situation. In James Jacobs' (Amigansoftware)'s defense: his name was among those that got the initial invitation from me, to join this group, when it was first starting up. He just "couldn't join the party" till later, apparently. But he isn't a "newbie" by my standards... just someone that missed the bulk of the excitement, back when we were all going nuts, daily, working on the write-up for the Digital Press guide. Yes, the standards of proof are high, even "excessive". This is because all of us have fallen afoul of various things, more often than we would like. The safest bet, with anything having to do with this console group, is to simply disbelieve EVERYTHING until it can be proven, with current, tangible, "right there in front of us" evidence, that something is either true or false. Or is neither of those categories, but was something we'd never considered before... that pops up enough to screw everything up, to make us all twice as paranoid. (Well, speaking only for myself!) The safest thing to do is just qualify your statements, religeously. ("I think," or "I'm guessing it is this way because," or the like.) One last thing: don't miss the message that I had said James' text kicked butt! I did like it, quite a bit. I only had one or two things that I said I would question, amongst lots of goodness. I'm all for you guys reading it, and adding to it, as I'm sure James is, as well. -- Ward Shrake -- 737 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 7:45am Subject: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide commie_fan I just want to make some clarifications, in regards to the video game guide, since I know the info needs to be clarified. First off, I do NOT get any money -- not one penny -- from sales of the book. I got zero dollars up front for writing what I wrote, and I continue to get zero dollars down the road, as well. Nothing. Nada. Zip. Et Cetera. So I am NOT saying "buy the book" to get your money. Nor am not bitchin' about this financial arrangement; I wrote for DPCG #6 under those conditions, and did so again for version #7. All I got for writing for the guide were two free copies of the book... and that was mainly because I wrote two (arguably three) sections in it. That's the standard deal for all authors of an individual guide section. And it is a common enough deal for other low-budget set-ups. Most other DP author types are happy just to see their stuff in print, with their name credited, and they realize that Digital Press isn't likely to retire to the Bahamas on what they make from sales of those guides, either. My main motivation for writing this stuff is that, at heart, I'm a writer. (I've seen my name in print in national publications, plenty of times, so that didn't motivate me much.) I wanted the info I had worked hard on to reach the best possible, most receptive audience. I felt that allowing Digital Press to have permission to print my stuff, was the most direct route to that. So, the best info I had, at the time of the deadline, went into the DP guide book. And then research sort of died off, mostly due to exhaustion on the part of all of us researchers, and my personal situation, where I'm not as able to be around computers much, etc. When the situation changes, maybe the web site I run will sort of "catch up" to the stuff in the guide. Maybe, and maybe not. I am not making any promises. But that aside, you're still screwing your own self, if you don't buy the guide -- where else are you going to get 512 pages worth of info on virtually EVERY 8-bit game console? In short, I keep saying "buy the guide" simply because it is the best thing going. If you're into this hobby, and don't have the most recent version of that guide, you are at an information disadvantage. It's like trying to enjoy a rainbow, while being unable to see the primary colors... or something. Just get the book, darn it! P.S. -- There is a half-version of the guide intro, up on the DP web site, under the "emulation" section, in the "arcadia" area. But it looks like their web site is being reorganized now, so I can't give a more specific location of the info, at the present time. -- Ward Shrake -- 738 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 8:30am Subject: Two brand new links just added commie_fan OK, I just added two new off-site links you all may be interested in. In the "software emulation" section of this board's "links" or "bookmarks" menu (see to your left), you should find a direct link to the part of Ward's web site that includes all of the ROMs for this console, links to emulation software, and so on. Also, there is the cut-down, "get a short taste of it" introduction on the history of the console up there, as well. (The full-on version in the DP guide is much better; I ought to know, I wrote both texts.) In the "reference materials" section of this board's links, you will find the plug that Digital Press runs, to get you both informed about what they are trying to sell you, and ordering instructions. So no more excuses, folks... buy the book, and become "edumacated propurly"! -- Ward Shrake -- 739 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 8:38am Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! commie_fan On cart dumping: remember that the FAQ has all sorts of pin-out info, if you need that, to make up a cart-reading adapter. Always build and test your adapter with a known-good, worthless cart, first! Make sure your adapter can flawlessly read "common" carts that can easily be replaced, before ever trying it on someone else's rare and/or valuable carts. Some of these might take years of searching to find a replacement, given the state of the marketplace, low demand, not many people even being aware of what the carts are, and so on. And recall that, from previous messages on these boards, that PeT is willing in principle to dump things; as the (former) MESS emu author for multiple consoles, he has more than enough technical expertise, and is likely closer to you Germanic folks, to boot. But some other anecdotal notes on archiving: on Palladium / Mr. Altus / Polybrain carts... just open the cart up, take the chip out of the socket, and put it directly into your EPROM reader. That's all I ever did, with the carts that were loaned to me. I never made up any adapters; I didn't ever see the need to! Just make sure you are trying to read it as the correct type of chip; it is somewhat odd, as I recall, but still common enough for this era and so on. (23xx instead of a 27xx pinout, if I recall correctly, without my notes.) Just some semi-random archiving thoughts! -- Ward Shrake -- 740 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 9:01am Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones commie_fan The reason I'm as paranoid and/or picky as I am, about all of this stuff, is that the human memory is NOT as reliable as people think it is. A perfect example: I once wasted weeks if not months, looking for a very specific Commodore VIC-20 game that the -- get this -- GAME'S OWN AUTHOR swore up and down was definitely released in cartridge form, and in cartridge form only. I calmly gave my reasons for believing it was a game on tape, and not on cart at all, but did not sway this individual. I passed the info -- his and mine both, with as little editing as possible -- on to those who were looking for it. (They were doing so with an almost religeous fervor, I might add.) Two years or more down the road, guess what happened? They found someone willing to sell them the game. They opened it. Surprise! It was NOT a cart. It WAS a tape. So in other words, there have been "Digital Archaeology" situations where I told the ORIGINAL AUTHOR that he was mistaken... and I was right. It's scary to be in that position, believe me. But most of the time, when I can point to lots of reasons for believing one thing over another, I end up being at least mostly right, down the road. It is a simple fact that most of the carts that people tell me are "NEW" discoveries for this console group, end up being for some other console group entirely. Yes, I have even had guys tell me that common Atari 2600 carts were for this console group... then get really pissed off at me, when I politely told them they were wrong. I have had well-meaning, very-knowledgeable guys tell me they found a cart for this or one of the other consoles, that later turned out to be for some other console. The MPT-03, for instance, has a pin-out that is exactly the right shape as the Commodore VIC-20 console, and the Ormatu console, and God knows how many other ancient systems? So, what I'm saying to you, James -- and you'll hate me for it, I'm sure, due to work volume alone! -- is to (1) get this "Super Bug" cart back into your hot little hands, then (2) scan it in visually, then (3) show the group the pictures. Based on that, if it looks like an Ormatu cart to me, then and only then will I buy into it enough to move it up from "rumored" to "confirmed" in my cart lists. Where it will languish, till someone dumps it, and we confirm the dump is 100% good. At which point it eeks its way upwards to "archived". The easiest way to move a mountain of information is to have each person work their ass off, to justify why each spoonfull needs to be moved in the first place. That's easier then going back later, among tens of thousands of spoofuls, sorting out which belong and which do not. That's the way we've gone through hundreds of carts so far. And why we know both the hidden rules, and the hidden exceptions to them. And why we're so cantankerous. Or at least, why I am! ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- 741 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:13pm Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! mc71de Hi Ward, nice to read you! --- "Ward Shrake" wrote: > It isn't my message's intention that "I'm right and everyone > else is wrong". I didn't get it that way... but i quoted you so often lately that i felt i should clarify things. Anyway, it was a good excuse to talk about a certain cart... > In James Jacobs' (Amigansoftware)'s defense: his name was > among those that got the initial invitation from me, to join > this group, when it was first starting up. He just "couldn't > join the party" till later, apparently. But he isn't a > "newbie" by my standards... just someone that missed the bulk > of the excitement, back when we were all going nuts, daily, > working on the write-up for the Digital Press guide. > > Yes, the standards of proof are high, even "excessive". This is > because all of us have fallen afoul of various things, more often > than we would like. But they were high already before this group started. So i wondered why he took it personally when we requested a 'proof'. Maybe we should add a category 'believed to exist, but not yet found'... > The safest bet, with anything having to do with > this console group, is to simply disbelieve EVERYTHING > until it can be proven, with current, tangible, "right > there in front of us" evidence, that something is either > true or false. 'I know that i know nothing. And i'm not even shure about that...' (One day, i promise, i'll look up who said this. Wasn't it Descartes? No wonder germany failed the 'PISA' contest...) > Or is neither of those categories, but was something we'd never > considered before... that pops up enough to screw everything up, > to make us all twice as paranoid. (Well, speaking only for > myself!) A surprise a day keeps the boredom away... > The safest thing to do is just qualify your statements, > religeously. ("I think," or "I'm guessing it is this way > because," or the like.) That is a good thing, anyway. When you get stuck with the facts, ask a question like 'makes it sense if...' or 'could it be that...' That's the way the physics department works. But the hard part is to find a proof, that allows to decide between the several theories you might have developed. No problem when James says 'I used to own it', or even might tell us about the gameplay, or what the screen display looks like. Makes me curious to learn more, but a proof it is not. A witness maybe, but not more. > One last thing: don't miss the message that I had said > James' text kicked butt! I did like it, quite a bit. I > only had one or two things that I said I would question, > amongst lots of goodness. I'm all for you guys reading it, > and adding to it, as I'm sure James is, as well. Yes, at least one of us should play those gems, from time to time :-) But that license thingy needed some claryfication, as it implies contracts between two companies. And while we were at that subject, i couldn't hold back to mention that Amiga and GEOS thing. IMHO Amiga should release AmigaOS into the public domain, but they refuse to do so and cause trouble to anyone who puts AOS online. According to former Commodore Germany employee Rainer Benda, it is not even shure they really acquired the copyright to AOS in the CBM split-up. Seems the contracts are not very clear in that matter. But he didn't want to fight that out at court, and so took his 'WB Backups' off the net... And seeing GEOS declared as 'abandonware' (what it is definitely not...) did not only hurt my heart, but didn't help James not to appear as clueless 'c00l w4r3z d00d' either. Sorry if i shot a bit over the limit, but i think positions are quite clear now, and we should move on... > -- Ward Shrake -- -mc 742 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:34pm Subject: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide mc71de Hi again, --- "Ward Shrake" wrote: > First off, I do NOT get any money -- not one penny -- > from sales of the book. That is definitely far less than what it is worth... > So I am NOT saying "buy the book" to get your money. You would be offering other things if you wanted to get our money, right? But you even only mildly offered your stuff when you were still below 'break-even' of the cost you invested in advance, just to pay for the parts. So you definitely are not the 'rip-off' type of person. (Remember the guys at comp.sys.cbm when you asked about a VIC-MC? They only saw the number, but definitely not the worth behind.) > I wanted the info I had worked hard on to reach the best possible, > most receptive audience. And don't forget the german proverb 'only what you have 'black-on- white' (AKA in print) you can carry home confidently' (Awful grammar, sorry. But i don't know the 'real' english equivalent...) > In short, I keep saying "buy the guide" simply because it > is the best thing going. Only drawback for me: Shipping to europe doubles the price. Too late to arrange now for a mass order now :-( > you are at an information disadvantage. I'll have to live with that.. btw, there is a german book about 'the history of video games' in the making. Anyone know more than the web site? Looks like a mainstream Atari-Coleco-Intellivision thing... -mc 743 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:38pm Subject: Re: Two brand new links just added mc71de Hi, > So no more excuses, folks... buy the book, and become "edumacated > propurly"! > > -- Ward Shrake -- Ward!!! So you packed away your grammar too, right? I am... severely astonished. :-) -mc 744 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 2:32pm Subject: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide slapdash26 At 4:34 AM +0000 10/11/02, mc71de wrote: > there is a german book about 'the history of video games' in the making. > Anyone know more than the web site? Don't even know the website. Got a URL? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 745 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 3:52pm Subject: Re: Cart #50 to be dumped! mc71de Hi all you hardware freaks, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > On cart dumping: remember that the FAQ has all sorts of > pin-out info, if you need that, to make up a cart-reading > adapter. Been there. Done that. Looked up the schematics. Poked around the consoles. More info of the Palladium and Interton carts are in the source code archive of MESS, done by PeT... > Always build and test your adapter with a known-good, > worthless cart, [...] You're telling to whom, please? ;-) > Make sure your adapter can flawlessly read "common" > carts that can easily be replaced, before ever trying > it on someone else's rare and/or valuable carts. Some > of these might take years of searching to find a replacement, Even worse, if i break Stefan's carts, i will never get a second chance. I believe he will plain kill me! If i got it right, he had to sell off his mother-in-law to get those carts... Just kidding, but they were definitely no 5 Euro (or better Yen) flea market find. > And recall that, from previous messages on these boards, > that PeT is willing in principle to dump things; That is the reason why i didn't speak up loudly, claiming 'send all your rare goods to me' (and eventually run off and away with it...) It just happens that Stefan and i live quite near to each other, and Stefan has the neccessary equipment, sans adapters. So he doesn't need to send his carts off, but can do it himself. And be sure we will try it on a common cart first! Me, to know it works, and him, to know he does the 'right things' and not mis-understood my instructions. That does not put PeTs qualification in question, nor shall Stefan or i claim 'I am the one to do it'. But it is still a good idea to have a 'second source' besides PeT, isn't it? So we need someone to serve the now-vacant North American area, and one for Asia-Pacific? Let's make an international network of dumpers :-) > and is likely closer to you Germanic folks, to boot. If he wants to deal with us 'Piefkes', that is. :-) > But some other anecdotal notes on archiving: on Palladium / > Mr. Altus / Polybrain carts... just open the cart up, take > the chip out of the socket, and put it directly into your > EPROM reader. I know that, but... sometimes they have a little 'warranty seal' sticker, right on one of the screws, small enough to just fit into the hole. I almost got a heart attack when i recognized these on the picture of the cart Stefan sold at Ebay. If i had bought it, that were exactly what i had done, but the real buyer maybe would have been disappointed to find his cart un-sealed. Some collectors care about such things... > I never made up any adapters; I didn't ever see the need to! Just a few reasons: - Opening the case might tear or scratch the end label (if it happens with my cart, it's bad luck; if it is someone else's: good night!). The label goes just across the boundary of the two halves, and folding it there like a door might leave a sharp fold-mark on the paper, or even chip off some of the paint. - I'll have to solder anyway. This way, i will end up with a two- stage rocket: Commodore to Palladium (on a piece of epoxy board), and then a Palladium to Arcadia adapter, that i can use later to play my Schmid games on the other machine. Advantage: No need for wiggly ribbon wires, and a exact fit of the Arcadia plug. Crimp-on types aren't available with 2x15 pins :-( - Concerning the possible V-Lex compatibility: Technical challenge and proof of concept. As of now, i can't tell if it ever will leave my drawing paper, but we need to reverse-engineer the circuit anyway, to beef up the emulator. I do certainly not want to analyze the 2650 machine code! I still can't make much sense of it; to me it looks as if someone has taken the worst of all micros i know and glued it together... And since i'm a hardware person anyway, i want to take this route. > (23xx instead of a 27xx pinout [...] Exactly, or just take the largest 24-pin chip (the 2364) and 'cut- out' excess dump later. If you do this 'in-system' however, you might have to connect the chip select to another pin. But we'll see; trial-and-error is allowed in that area... Fortunately, we don't have to expect Texas Instrument's version of the 2716 2K Eprom. Unlike the standard 2716 layout, that bugger needs +12v and -5v power supplies like the earlier 2708 1K Eprom. Can drive you crazy if you don't know that quirk! > if I recall correctly, without my notes.) And now, sing the pin layout, sorted by pin numbers, in descending order ;-) (I don't know all those pin-outs by heart either. But 23xx are mask roms, 25xx some special eproms and one-time programmable devices, 26xx Signetics' stuff, and 27xx the standard eproms. But never ask me which families are interchangable or not (2564 is 2364 with some extra pins, but otherwise plug-in compatible. Comes handy in development of a 2364-based system; maybe even the V-Lex daughterboards are prepared to use this approach? Have the extra places in the chip socket... 2764 however needs to swtch around some pins to be put into a 2364 socket. Ever added a custom kernal rom into a c64?) > Just some semi- conductor > random access memory > archiving thoughts! dito :-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- -mc 746 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 4:30pm Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones mc71de Hi all, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > It was NOT a cart. It WAS a tape. Make your life easier, speak german! Then both could easily go for a 'game cassette'. :-) > Yes, I have even had guys tell me that > common Atari 2600 carts were for this console group... Don't these share the same 2x15 .1'' off-the-shelf connector? :-) > then get really pissed off at me Never mind; some people won't recognize if the proof was nailet into their hand. You can't do anything against it. just don't bother, and go on to the next thing... > The MPT-03, for instance, has a pin-out > that is exactly the right shape as the Commodore VIC-20 Ouch! > console Isn't the VIC commonly considered a computer? Side note: The VIC chip was for MOS much the same as what the 2636 was for Signetics. Simple video, sound, suitable for a video game system. Only that no- one wanted the VIC chip, so commodore had to do a 'reference design'. Fortunately, they added a proper keyboard, and means to connect a cheap mass storage. Though the VIC has a large Cart library (didn't know that, Ward, eh?), the real success was the possibility to publish software on tape, easy to do for anyone and at nearly no cost. Wished the Arcadias had a tape port, a programming cart (like the Elektor system had some, or maybe even BASIC *dream*) and a keyboard... (shameless plug) Am i now infected by Adam's Bally Alley? (/plug) > So, what I'm saying to you, James -- and you'll hate me > for it, I'm sure, due to work volume alone! -- is to > (1) get this "Super Bug" > cart back into your hot little hands, then > (2) scan it in visually, then > (3) show the group the pictures. Based on that, if it looks > like an Ormatu cart to me, then and only then will I buy > into it enough to move it up from "rumored" to "confirmed" > in my cart lists. Where it will languish, till someone dumps > it, and we confirm the dump is 100% good. At which point it > eeks its way upwards to "archived". Hey, that's my 'culprit-in-chains' thing! [...] > And why we're so cantankerous. Or at least, why I am! ;-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- As for me, i just had asked James 'Cool! What is it like? Describe, maybe show it to me!' But iirc he didn't even describe the gameplay... Maybe he had earned a 'game believed to exist and witnessed by xxx people', but not even a 'confirmed'. Same goes for some Atari prototypes. Many people claimed to have seen 'pink panther', but no-one knew for shure what it was until the proto cart appeared just a few years ago... -mc 747 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 4:59pm Subject: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide mc71de Hi Russ, try: http://www.8bitgames.de/Das_Buch/das_buch.html (sorry, no english pages there. Feel free to ask if Google translator tries to turn 'browse' into 'weeding grass' once again :-) Have fun, -mc 748 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:36pm Subject: Re: Got two Bandai games stefanpiasecki >hopefully we will work something out to get them dumped too. But as >of yet, things are at a rather early stage- what if my eprommer goes >nuts and kills my carts, and i can't afford a new one? What if What if it kills MY carts? ARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH Already sold great parts of my collection to afford these Bandai games, but hey, can still sell my house to replenish them, haha Stefan 749 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 6:43pm Subject: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide stefanpiasecki I can only underline Wards words here. I only know portions of this book, but honestly.... chasing info on the net for months etc. will cost more than buying this book as authors like Ward have really done a good job at almost scientific standards. And here is the single point I disagree: I believe that these authors should get payed for what they've done. It is a common thing with freelance authors that they are happy with seeing their names printed. And the bad thing is: those publishers know this and count on it, earning cash that they should share (IMO). And another thing that I learned over the years is: if you work for free, people will hardly take you serious. The more cheeky (or greedy up to a certain extent) one is, the more respected he may get. Sad but true. Stefan 750 From: "Bill" Date: Fri Oct 11, 2002 10:25pm Subject: I live! billlagr Hi All (Esp. Ward) Just a quick note to let u know that I am still alive and reading and playing the old MPT-03 when i get a chance. Its been a long time (about 6 months?) since i contributed anything, but keep up the good work guys! Bill. 751 From: slapdash@... Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:06am Subject: Re: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones slapdash26 mc71de wrote: > "Ward Shrake" wrote: > > The MPT-03, for instance, has a pin-out > > that is exactly the right shape as the Commodore VIC-20 > > console > Isn't the VIC commonly considered a computer? I should point out that the use of "console" to distinguish dedicated game machines isn't as common here in the US as it is in Europe. > Though the VIC has a large Cart library (didn't know that, Ward, > eh?) [...] Is that a joke? Ward put a huge amount of effort compiling and confirming the VIC cartridge list before he got to the Arcadia. He knows, believe me. Russ ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 752 From: slapdash@... Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:07am Subject: Re: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide slapdash26 mc71de wrote: > http://www.8bitgames.de/Das_Buch/das_buch.html Thanks, I will check this out later... > (sorry, no english pages there. Feel free to ask if Google > translator tries to turn 'browse' into 'weeding grass' once again :-) Well, it wouldn't hurt for me to get some German reading practice in... Russ ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 753 From: slapdash@... Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 1:09am Subject: Re: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide slapdash26 Stefan Piasecki wrote: > And here is the single point I disagree: I believe that these authors > should get payed for what they've done. It is a common thing with > freelance authors that they are happy with seeing their names > printed. And the bad thing is: those publishers know this and count > on it, earning cash that they should share (IMO). I should point out that in the case of the Digital Press Collectors Guide, I don't think the publisher is making much (any?) money either. I mean, volume 7 is available at Amazon, but the book itself is still self-published. Just wanted to clarify that. Russ ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 754 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:27am Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash@e... wrote: > mc71de wrote: (snip) > > Though the VIC has a large Cart library (didn't know that, Ward, > > eh?) [...] > > Is that a joke? Ward put a huge amount of effort compiling and > confirming the VIC cartridge list before he got to the Arcadia. > He knows, believe me. > > Russ Yeah, that was a joke. In other posts, he makes it clear he was following the VIC-20 efforts I did, for some time. Just random silliness... which is OK, as the "club's charter" does allow for having fun, once in awhile. Besides, it won't hurt me to be the butt of an occasional joke. ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- 755 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:34am Subject: Re: Got two Bandai games commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > >hopefully we will work something > >out to get them dumped too. But as > >of yet, things are at a rather early > >stage- what if my eprommer goes > >nuts and kills my carts, and i can't > >afford a new one? What if > >What if it kills MY carts? > >ARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH > >Already sold great parts of my > >collection to afford these Bandai > >games, but hey, can still sell my > >house to replenish them, haha > >Stefan Dedication... you gotta love that. I think. Or was that a bad thing? :-) I doubt an EPROM programmer would kill a cart. Make sure power and ground goes where it should, that the voltage levels are what they should be, and most of the rest of it will just cause bad reads. The data and address lines are sort of self-explanatory for the most part, and those are the bulk of the lines that need to be hooked up. Don't forget that you can always use a dead system for parts, taking the real connector off the main board, and putting it onto some breadboard or something, with the wires soldered up directly. That is more or less what my Bally Astrocade adapter is; a real cart slot, that runs via wire-wrapping wires, onto the legs of a wire-wrap chip socket. It looks a bit odd, but in principle, it acts as if one end is a cart slot and the other is literally an EPROM chip (even though it is really just an empty socket.) -- Ward Shrake -- 756 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:40am Subject: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > I can only underline Wards words > here. I only know portions of this > book, but honestly.... chasing info > on the net for months etc. will > cost more than buying this book > as authors like Ward have really > done a good job at almost > scientific standards. "Almost Scientific Standards".... I like that. The acronym works out well, of course -- A.S.S. -- and that is probably appropriate from the point of view of those who think our standards are too high. Heehee. But seriously, that's more or less what this group is / was all about, and some of the "research" on other consoles is, in my opinion, nowhere near as complex or as exacting, in terms of how it goes about finding new information, sorting old info, and making sense of the big picture. I did like my (admittedly rough) analogy earlier, about moving a mountain of data, one spoonful at a time, while justifying each spoon of dirt, before we move it. Otherwise, it really is hopeless, trying to go back later, and sorting out what is or is not valid, useful, etc. -- Ward Shrake -- 757 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 4:43pm Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones mc71de Hi, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash@e... wrote: > I should point out that the use of "console" to distinguish > dedicated game machines isn't as common here in the US as > it is in Europe. Didn't know that... but i seem to remember that some company once held the patent of a 'home computer', mainly adding a keyboard to a video game. Rumor has it that the planned keyboard for the SEGA megadrive/genesis was cancelled because it had caused SEGA to pay extra royalties (even for those units that would have been sold without a keyboard). But maybe i'm mixing this up with the Amiga's history... hmmm... But i'm quite sure that the story as such is true, so the distinction is not just of academical nature. > > Though the VIC has a large Cart library (didn't know that, Ward, > > eh?) [...] > > Is that a joke? Ward put a huge amount of effort compiling and > confirming the VIC cartridge list before he got to the Arcadia. > He knows, believe me. Please look up Ward's post #754. In case i should ever again forget including one, i herewith supply some of these: ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) ;-) -mc 758 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:01pm Subject: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide mc71de Hi all, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash@e... wrote: > Stefan Piasecki wrote: > > And here is the single point I disagree: I believe that > > these authors should get payed for what they've done. [...] > I should point out that in the case of the Digital Press > Collectors Guide, I don't think the publisher is making > much (any?) money either. (Me neither) And don't forget: The possible audience is quite small, but low-volume print at reasonable quality is expensive. So, if DP would pay the authors 'real money', the book might double in price and sell even less copies. On the other hand, i wouldn't trust a 'professional writer' anywhere as much as an 'engaged hobbyist' like Ward or Dieter (paid-for or not). to Stefan: Remember J"rg Schieb? I liked his books on the '64, published at DATA BECKER. But since he started to write computer books for a living, it became mass-production stuff. 'The big book on MS-DOS 6.2'? Cool. I would expect lots of info on the new features. But in fact, it was copy-and-paste of 'TBB MSDOS 5', just changed the title and some screenshots. No fun... For prices of low-volume print in germany, check www.schaltungsdienst.de, click something like 'uni-press'... -mc 759 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:05pm Subject: Re: Licensed games versus illegal clones mc71de Hi, > Besides, it won't hurt me to be the butt of an occasional joke. ;- ) > > -- Ward Shrake -- It was indeed meant as a kind of appreciation... I didn't even want to 'pull the Ward's leg' ;-) -mc 760 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:27pm Subject: Re: Got two Bandai games mc71de Hi, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > I doubt an EPROM programmer would kill a cart. I don't anymore... here's the story: I am the proud owner of a Quickbyte 2, the most sophisticated eprommer you could buy for a c64. Not an el-cheapo thing. Anyway, some years ago, it had a failure in one of the chips. It did its job as usual, but from time to time it did lock up the computer, applying the 12v programming voltage to the eprom socket. It indeed killed one of my eproms (not much damage though), and i don't think Arcadia roms would like 12v either. Or you could accidentally touch the 'burn' key. Not very likely, but i have a much better feeling not to have high voltages around those Bandai carts. (And yes, that chip is replaced... and i dumped my Video-Schach rom with it when i mistakenly thought it was still on the to-do list. Thankfully i realized in time it wasn't, just before making a fool of myself right in front of you...) > Don't forget that you can always use a dead system for parts, Dead systems tend to come back to life under my hands recently... > It looks a bit odd, I'll put up pictures of what i did several years ago to dump Atart- XL carts. Then we'll talk about 'looking odd'... -mc 761 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 12, 2002 5:53pm Subject: Re: On the Digital Press Collectors Guide mc71de Hi, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > "Almost Scientific Standards".... I like that. I Think Stefan is just correct! That's exactly what physics, chemistry and the like is all about: Collect facts, come up with a theory, and check this theory against the facts and existing theories; search possible weaknesses and look for facts that could cure these. Only thing is most video game carts will refuse to fit into Erlenmeyer flasks... And yes, Russ: Das war ein Witz. :-) > The acronym works out well, of course -- A.S.S. -- and > that is probably appropriate from the point of view of > those who think our standards are too high. Heehee. Hey, don't annoy James, please... that worked out to be my department ;-) > But seriously, that's more or less what this group > is / was all about, I don't think it's all over. There's lots of work to do. We all just needed a deep breath of fresh air (and a bit of sleep...). After all, it is a hobby, and a hobby should be fun and recreation. If it gets stressing and annoying, anyone should take a break and come back later. [...] > I did like my (admittedly rough) analogy earlier, about > moving a mountain of data, one spoonful at a time, while > justifying each spoon of dirt, before we move it. Otherwise, > it really is hopeless, trying to go back later, and sorting > out what is or is not valid, useful, etc. > > -- Ward Shrake -- Let me add an off-topic story: At our chemical department (University of Cologne), many years ago a young Doctor of Chemistry was ordered back to the institute a year or so after her Thesis. What happened? Other students were trying to repeat her experiments, but got totally different results. Now she was accused of having spoiled in her Thesis, and she had to re-do the experiments to proof she was right. Luckily she was able to do so... I don't know what it all was about, or what went wrong; most likely she left out some detail in her descriptions. But since i first heard about this story, i know how important documentation and repeatability is. Enjoy! -mc 764 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 11:08am Subject: Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. commie_fan And MC: on that "A.S.S." quote -- it was meant to be FROM the viewpoint of those afflicted by our overly stringent standards, not TOWARDS them. In other words, they'd think it of us, not we call them names. (If that makes any more sense than the previous wordage!) -- Ward Shrake -- 765 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Oct 13, 2002 1:14pm Subject: Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. mc71de Hello James, finally managed to hammer your name into my memory :-) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: [...] > Re. Australia/Elektor: > Hmmm, well, forgive my ignorance [...] No problem! In the first run, Elektor is a monthly electronics DIY mag. Think you have several of these, too, so Elektor might not want to enter your market anyway... too much competition :-) It was just a question; currently i'm trying to track down an english version of their book on TV computer games, thus finding someone living in a country where it was actually published might have been useful... -mc 770 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:08am Subject: Re: Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. grumpfix amigansoftware wrote: >I'm revising the compatibility guide slightly, I should have it done >in a few days. It's got me thinking that perhaps the MESS emulator >needs an upgrade. The two most common compatibility problems seem to >incorrect colours and interchanged sprites, these bugs are probably >trivial to fix but would significantly enhance the quality of the >emulation. There don't seem to be any serious compatibility problems >(except for Circus), so it would seem rather easy to fix the trivial >bugs and have an almost 100% perfect emulator. It's interesting to >note that although the quality of the Paul Robson "2001" emulation >is often not very good, it doesn't seem to have the two bugs >mentioned... Thanks for your bug report. I added them to my list. Robson's and mine MESS driver don't share code. I used Paul's register map to implement it. I don't have his source (only a video part (i386 asm, vga, ...)) to look at. I finished a Palladium multicart last week. Now I am able to test all games on the real console easily. Peter 771 From: "mc71de" Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:52am Subject: Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. mc71de Hi everybody, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > amigansoftware wrote: > > The two most common compatibility problems > > seem to be incorrect colours and interchanged sprites, Maybe a port of the 'Elektor' monitor program to the Arcadia might be useful, to test things on the Real Thing... just a weird idea :-) [...] > I finished a Palladium multicart last week. > Now I am able to test all games on the real console easily. > > Peter Argh. Beat me. So i have to add that 7 segment hex LED display to mine... -mc 772 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 3:07pm Subject: Arcadia Monitor program atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> Maybe a port of the 'Elektor' monitor program to the Arcadia might be useful, to test things on the Real Thing... just a weird idea :-) >> Translating the monitor program is not such a weird idea; but it wouldn't be easy to use (with no keyboard) and with the Arcadia's limited RAM (1K). The computer that is built in the book TV-Spiel-Computer has at least 2K of RAM, which would probably mean that to be useful on the Arcadia the program would need more RAM: some form of RAM would be needed on the Arcadia cartridge (mapped at $3000-$7FFF - right?). I don't know of any Arcadia cartridge that has RAM on it (am I wrong here?), so we would be treading into some uncharted territory. The Monitor program (pages 238-263) isn't written specifically for the Arcadia, but it can be translated (the question is, who would do THAT?). Would the Monitor be useful enough to deserve the time and energy that it would take to translate the program (it's rather long, but all the 2650 source IS there)? I could go into some positives and negatives of such an awesome endeavor, but anyone that knows what a monitor program is in the first place already knows the usefulness of one. I like the idea of a monitor program for the Arcadia, but without being able to save the work typed in so very carefully using the cartridge and keypad controllers, it seems a bit over the top. However, it WOULD be very useful for observing states of the REAL computer: RAM, registers, etc. MESS isn't the real thing, and it might help to see what differences we can observe with such a program. Which, I suppose, was mc71de's point to begin with... Adam 773 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:09pm Subject: Re: Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. grumpfix mc71de wrote: >>I finished a Palladium multicart last week. >>Now I am able to test all games on the real console easily. >> >> >Argh. Beat me. So i have to add that 7 segment hex LED display to >mine... > > On the VCG cartridge you habe reset and write lines. With 1 GAL you can do a multigamecartridge with software selection. Peter 774 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:16pm Subject: Re: Arcadia Monitor program grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: >mc71de wrote: > > >Maybe a port of the 'Elektor' monitor program to the Arcadia might >be useful, to test things on the Real Thing... just a weird idea :-) > > > >Translating the monitor program is not such a weird idea; but it wouldn't be >easy to use (with no keyboard) and with the Arcadia's limited RAM (1K). The >computer that is built in the book TV-Spiel-Computer has at least 2K of RAM, >which would probably mean that to be useful on the Arcadia the program would >need more RAM: some form of RAM would be needed on the Arcadia cartridge >(mapped at $3000-$7FFF - right?). I don't know of any Arcadia cartridge >that has RAM on it (am I wrong here?), so we would be treading into some >uncharted territory. > >The Monitor program (pages 238-263) isn't written specifically for the >Arcadia, but it can be translated (the question is, who would do THAT?). >Would the Monitor be useful enough to deserve the time and energy that it >would take to translate the program (it's rather long, but all the 2650 >source IS there)? I could go into some positives and negatives of such an >awesome endeavor, but anyone that knows what a monitor program is in the >first place already knows the usefulness of one. > In my opinion this could be the source for the few needed tricks (single step, ...) for implementing a monitor program for the arcadia. Their displays are too different. >I like the idea of a monitor program for the Arcadia, but without being able >to save the work typed in so very carefully using the cartridge and keypad >controllers, it seems a bit over the top. However, it WOULD be very useful >for observing states of the REAL computer: RAM, registers, etc. MESS isn't >the real thing, and it might help to see what differences we can observe >with such a program. Which, I suppose, was mc71de's point to begin with... > > I will walk through Paul's technical reference and my implementation to find out these 2 problems. Peter 775 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Tue Oct 15, 2002 9:24pm Subject: Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. stefanpiasecki Palladium Multicart? I want one. For sure. Stefan 776 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 0:14am Subject: Multicarts, was:Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. mc71de Hello, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Palladium Multicart? I want one. For sure. > Stefan I don't know if PeT wants to build another one, but why not try this one: Buy one of Ward's remaining Arcadia multicarts, and use it with the Arcadia<>Palladium adaptor you'll recieve quite soon from me? Got the parts today, and hope to get work done by the end of next week... and i probably won't give a 'daily update' as Ward did at the beginning of this year ;-) BTW, did you know that there seems to be another device called 'Multicart' out there? Read about it at some place like 4jay's, but cannot find it anymore. According to the description it was a 5(?)-cartridge-switchbox for shop displays, like the shop displays used with the Nintendo NES. Plug 5(?) carts in and change program by pressing button(s). A pity there was no picture, but has anyone ever seen that device? Or am i mixing things up? I seem to remember when i googled for Ward's multicarts, and i think i searched for 'arcadia multicart'. Just tried it, but no success :-( 777 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 0:24am Subject: Palladium soft-select Multicart; was:Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. mc71de Hello Peter! --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > mc71de wrote: > > >>I finished a Palladium multicart last week. > >>Now I am able to test all games on the real console easily. > >> > >> > >Argh. Beat me. So i have to add that 7 segment hex LED display to > >mine... > > > > > On the VCG cartridge you habe reset and write lines. > With 1 GAL you can do a multigamecartridge with software selection. > > Peter What about adding one of these nifty 2x16 char lcd's, to display the game's name and instructions? I somehow don't like the idea of programming the 2650. Those mnemonics refuse to stay in my brain. I might want to try J?rgen Buchm?ller(?)'s approach of using Z80 mnemonics... BTW: Just solder one or two wires into an Arcadia, connecting the missing signals to one of the unused pins of the cart slot, and you can do the same on the Arcadia, and even add RAM- see other post... 778 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:04am Subject: Re: Arcadia Monitor program mc71de --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > Adam Trionfo wrote: > > >mc71de wrote: > > > > > >Maybe a port of the 'Elektor' monitor program to the Arcadia might > >be useful, to test things on the Real Thing... just a weird idea :-) > > Let me explain a little: - to do real programs, like the Elektor monitor was meant for, you need RAM. Easy to add on the Palladium, but Arcadia needs adding one or two wires into the console. Not hard to do if you know how to hold a soldering iron without burning your fingers, but maybe something not everybody wants to do. [Back in the 80ies we had a tiffany glass works DIY boom in germany. One ad showed a young lady 'at work', sitting at her desk, all sorts of glass around her, a halfway finished tiffany lamp in front of her. Happily smiling she seemed to do her soldering job. BUT: she held the soldering iron like a pencil, some few cm over the tip. I bet that thing was not plugged in...) - On the tape Elektor offered for their TV computer, there is a program called 'PVI tester', useful to create playfields (remember the weird screen coding!), design sprites, and test sounds. Maybe an adapted 'monitor' could do something similar, even without extra RAM. Might be a useful tool for emulator coders, to tweak the bits and registers, to see what everything is good for on the 'Real Thing'. As i said, just a weird idea... - screen output: the easiest part, maybe, since the UVI has character output. Strip out the complex PVI stuff and replace with a simple 'poke char to screen' thing. - 1K RAM: 't was 28 K, darnit! Seriously: There are 2 RAM chips, 1024x4bit each, inside every Arcadia console, giving a grand total of 1K. BUT: one address line is tied to +5v, so only 512 bytes of RAM are actually used. (Ooops! If that story continues, we will end up with a negative ammount of RAM one day...) To be fair, i should add that the UVI has a little bit of 'RAM' inside, mostly used to store the sprites. But it is far from being another 256bytes... - 28, magic number of Arcadia: IIRC, the UVI chip select logic effectively blocks out 4k of the whopping 32k the 2650 has to offer. Map: $0000 ROM $1000 PVI space $2000 ROM for large carts $7fff last memory location (is this correct?) If this is correct, there is (32k-4k)=28k of maximum (non-banked) cartridge space, and that number '28' would at least make some sense. I doubt the 'marketing' people of UA would have cared much about the marginal difference between RAM and ROM. After all, it is memory anyway... If i ever build a multicart for one of these things, i maybe will write a large '28' on it... Comments please, and have fun, -mc > > > > > >Translating the monitor program is not such a weird idea; but it wouldn't be > >easy to use (with no keyboard) and with the Arcadia's limited RAM (1K). The > >computer that is built in the book TV-Spiel-Computer has at least 2K of RAM, > >which would probably mean that to be useful on the Arcadia the program would > >need more RAM: some form of RAM would be needed on the Arcadia cartridge > >(mapped at $3000-$7FFF - right?). I don't know of any Arcadia cartridge > >that has RAM on it (am I wrong here?), so we would be treading into some > >uncharted territory. > > > >The Monitor program (pages 238-263) isn't written specifically for the > >Arcadia, but it can be translated (the question is, who would do THAT?). > >Would the Monitor be useful enough to deserve the time and energy that it > >would take to translate the program (it's rather long, but all the 2650 > >source IS there)? I could go into some positives and negatives of such an > >awesome endeavor, but anyone that knows what a monitor program is in the > >first place already knows the usefulness of one. > > > In my opinion this could be the source for the few needed tricks (single > step, ...) for implementing > a monitor program for the arcadia. Their displays are too different. > > >I like the idea of a monitor program for the Arcadia, but without being able > >to save the work typed in so very carefully using the cartridge and keypad > >controllers, it seems a bit over the top. However, it WOULD be very useful > >for observing states of the REAL computer: RAM, registers, etc. MESS isn't > >the real thing, and it might help to see what differences we can observe > >with such a program. Which, I suppose, was mc71de's point to begin with... > > > > > I will walk through Paul's technical reference and my implementation to > find out these 2 problems. > > Peter 779 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 3:16am Subject: Re: Arcadia Monitor program atrionfo Wasn't the computer 'Intro Cart' for the Odyssey 2 console a machine language monitor? How much RAM did that system have for use after the monitor was running? I got rid of my Odyssey 2, but I did keep that program and manual, but it's buried in my garage somewhere. The manual for 'Computer Intro' is thick and informative (with some short examples). Was the monitor itself useful for anything? You couldn't save with it, but at least you could type on a keyboard (even if it was membrane). The 2600 has the MagiCard cartridge from CommaVid, the Astrocade has the Machine Language Manager cart. MagiCard had 4K of RAM onboard (I think) and the MLM for the Astrocade makes good use of the 4K of RAM that the Astrocade has onbaord. Both of these cartridges can save to tape (the MagiCard cartridge came with instructions on how to build the interface, while the MLM cart shared the BASIC interface). The Vic had Micromon from Compute (Ward, did it have a cartridge monitor?). Does the Intellivision or Colecovision (perhaps via the Adam) have a cartridge of this sort? What other consoles (not computers) have monitor programs? Any at all? Side note: the Astrocade even had an assembler, but it loaded from tape (not cartridge) and required several tape swaps before the assembled code was ready. Adam 780 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 5:23am Subject: Re: Arcadia Monitor program mc71de Hi Adam and group, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Wasn't the computer 'Intro Cart' for the Odyssey 2 In fact it is 'Computer Intro!' (vivid colors! realistic sounds! zillions of exclamation points! Odyssey2!) :-) > console a machine language monitor? Well, sort of. It does indeed behave like one, but the 'processor' is simulated, much like a BASIC interpreter 'runs' a BASIC program. And that 'machine code' has nothing in common with machine code of the Odyssey's 8048 cpu. And that is a Good Thing[TM] for the owner of such a cart... If anyone is interested in the manual of Computer Intro!, try www.ozyr.com ,the o2 instructions section. (Adam, could you please update the link over at the ballyalley message board? Thanx.) > How much RAM did that system have for use after the > monitor was running? Not really much. Atari BASIC for the VCS 2600 had 64 bytes or 12 lines; Computer intro! maybe a little more, but space is tight there too. > I got rid of my Odyssey 2, but I did keep that program > and manual, but it's buried in my garage somewhere. > The manual for 'Computer Intro' is thick and informative > (with some short examples). Was the monitor itself useful > for anything? Getting in touch with and learning the principles of computer machine code... that is it's intention, and it does a fairly good job. See, you kept that manual... And computer intro makes for an expensive and hard to get collector's item... > You couldn't save with it, but at No real problem, given the small size of the programs. It was rather 'toying around' than doing serious work you want to keep. And if so, you can make a back-up; using pen and paper, that is... > least you could type on a keyboard (even if it was membrane). Not yet tried it, but it might be more fun than hunting those tiny keys of a ZX81/Timex1000 membrane, which was my computer for several years... > The 2600 has the MagiCard cartridge from CommaVid, the > Astrocade has the Machine Language Manager cart. > MagiCard had 4K of RAM onboard (I think) and > the MLM for the Astrocade makes good use of the 4K of > RAM that the Astrocade has onbaord. Both of these > cartridges can save to tape (the MagiCard > cartridge came with instructions on how to build the > interface, while the MLM cart shared the BASIC interface). > The Vic had Micromon from Compute > (Ward, did it have a cartridge monitor?). I think even made by commodore themselves. Check cartzilla, or funet! For the c64, a MLM was *the* thing to put on a tool disk, plus/4, c128 and the b-machines had TEDMON factory built-in. The earlier PET/CBM machines had a tedmon too, but w/o assembler/disassembler. Apple][ had Mini-Assembler in ROM. Lots of MLM programs for other machines... > Does the Intellivision or Colecovision (perhaps via the > Adam) have a cartridge of this sort? What other consoles > (not computers) have monitor programs? Any at all? Not to my knowledge. I don't think you would call the Intellicart a monitor cart; maybe something is/will be written for it? Coleco/Adam: should be possible... others: wasn't there a homebrew BASIC cart for gameboy, that could be mis-used for that purpose? Console producers usually don't like others to discover their secrets... These action replay plug-between-carts could perhaps be re- programmed with a monitor instead the 'cheat code finder'... > Side note: the Astrocade even had an assembler, but it > loaded from tape (not cartridge) and required several > tape swaps before the assembled code was ready. Anyone wants to build a disk system for the Astrocade??? > Adam -mc Another 'germany only': the Kosmos computer. What is Kosmos? They make, um, scientific experimenter's kits. Electronics, physics, chemistry, astrology, meteorology (yes, featuring 'Mr. Weatherman' J"rg Kachelmann...), each coming with a nice educational manual, aiming at children aged '10 to 100'... What is the Kosmos Computer? Mid-80ies, ~30x25x3 cm in size, 6 7- segment LEDs, membrane keypad with numbers '0'..'9' and a bunch of special function keys. At the back edge it had several ttl io lines, and happily connected to KOSMOS electronic experimenter boards, upon which you could build several sorts of interface circuitry. How do i program this machine? You enter decimal codes, converted from mnemonics according to a 'reference sheet' that came with it. Advanced users will soon know the 23 instructions by number. Uses 'pseudo machine code', as the computer intro does, tailored to suit a 'control and regulation' computer. Guess i should put a picture online. Maybe we have just seen the birth of a 'KOSMOS Computer FAQ'... And the machine isn't emulated yet either... 781 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 6:04pm Subject: Multicarts, was:Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. stefanpiasecki Wow, an adapter would be perfect. I already have one of Wards carts (#2 *proud*) and thus could indeed switch around. The latest chip upgrade is also in the mails so.... happy Christmas holidays...... Stefan 782 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Wed Oct 16, 2002 10:28pm Subject: Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > amigansoftware wrote: > > >I'm revising the compatibility guide slightly, I should have it done > >in a few days. It's got me thinking that perhaps the MESS emulator > >needs a slight upgrade. The two most common compatibility problems > >seem to be incorrect colours and interchanged sprites, these bugs are > >probably trivial to fix but would significantly enhance the quality > >of the emulation. There don't seem to be any serious compatibility > >problems (except for Circus), so it would seem rather easy to fix the > >trivial bugs and have an almost 100% perfect emulator. It's > >interesting to note that although the quality of the Paul > >Robson "2001" emulation is often not very good, it doesn't seem to > >have the two bugs mentioned... > > > > > Thanks for your bug report. I added them to my list. If you want more detail about which games have which problems, you could look at the newly updated Compatibility List in the files area. > Robson's and mine MESS driver don't share code. > I used Paul's register map to implement it. > I don't have his source (only a video part (i386 asm, vga, ...)) to look at. I didn't realize this, I had heard from somewhere that the MESS driver was built from Paul Robson's source. Obviously that was just misinformation. Maybe it would be advantageous to have his source, has anyone asked him for it? > I finished a Palladium multicart last week. > Now I am able to test all games on the real console easily. > > Peter 783 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:54am Subject: MESS Source driver atrionfo >> I didn't realize this, I had heard from somewhere that the MESS driver was built from Paul Robson's source. Obviously that was just misinformation. Maybe it would be advantageous to have his source, has anyone asked him for it? >> The source has been asked for, and it is gone. Paul isn't holding back on any information. We have everything he had. He had a harddrive crash (or something- maybe accidentally deleted the source?), so what there is, is all there is. Adam 784 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:58am Subject: Multicarts, was:Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> I already have one of Wards [multi]carts (#2 *proud*) >> I asked for my multicart to be number 2001- and that's the number I have. I was surprised nobody had requested that number already. I suppose this number means more to us Arcadia 2001 users than those people overseas that don't use that named system. Adam 785 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:16am Subject: Re: Arcadia Monitor program atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> [on the Odyssey 2's 'Computer Intro' cart being a monitor] Well, sort of. It does indeed behave like one, but the 'processor' is simulated, much like a BASIC interpreter 'runs' a BASIC program. >> Now that is neat to find out. I may as well sell that cart now- I held onto it because I thought it game some tips on programming the console. If anyone is interested in the manual of Computer Intro!, try ,the o2 instructions section. >> Adam, could you please update the link [www.ozyr.com] over at the ballyalley message board? Thanx. >> @mc71de: Not sure what you are talking about here. I don't even remember having a link to that site. Maybe someone else added it- I'll take a look soon. >> > You couldn't save with it, but at No real problem, given the small size of the programs.[...] you can make a back-up; using pen and paper, that is... >> True enough. I've talked to many people over the years that did just that before they got disk drives for their C-64 or Atari 800. I can't imagine doing that now, but when that's the only choice you've got, you go with what you've got. I suppose I would have been one of those folks too, but I won't be one of them now. >> plus/4, c128 and the b-machines had TEDMON factory built-in. >> I mentioned this thread to a friend yesterday and we started talking about the bulit-in monitor on our C-128 computers that we used back in the mid-eighties. Back then I had no idea what that was and I stuck close to BASIC (mostly I just typed in programs from magazines). I'm pretty sure that if you hold down ALL the buttons at once on the Arcadia you get a really nice monitor... [that's a joke there] >> Console producers usually don't like others to discover their secrets... >> Which is why all the fans of these consoles have had to re-discover all the "secrets." Too bad there isn't a big, fat book called, "Secrets of the conole that you are looking for." It would be printed in any language you need and could be ordered online (or even available as html or a pdf file). Yea... >> Anyone wants to build a disk system for the Astrocade??? >> Anyone wanna build a memory expansion for it first??? Adam 786 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 1:55am Subject: Re: Arcadia Monitor program atrionfo This posting got skipped by me somehow yesterday (I get all my message at once in my email, rather than one at a time), so here are a few questions this brings up. mc71de wrote: >> to do real programs, like the Elektor monitor was meant for, you need RAM. >> Understood, and that's why I thought we could add RAM to the cart (that was before I read this posting of yours which kills THAT idea. >> Easy to add [RAM] on the Palladium, but Arcadia needs adding one or two wires into the console. >> So except bank switching, there is no way to add RAM. Just a question: what about a big 36K ROM ( I know they don't come in that size). The 36K being 8K large ROM plus using the memory that is available at: 0000-0FFF - First 4K or ROM 2000-2FFF - Second 4K of ROM 3000-7FFF - Third 28K of ROM (could be used... maybe?) Maybe us a 32K EPROM and not be able to make use of 4K of ROM? How does the Arcadia map the ROM anyway? Does it automatically see the first 4K of the ROM as 0000-0FFF, then see the second half as 2000-2FFF? >> On the tape Elektor offered for their TV computer >> It seems that having that tape wouldn't do us much good. It isn't like the source code of the programs are on the tape. Even if the sourse WAS on the tape, the source would only provide more examples of 2650 coding (which we already know isn't Arcadia compatable). How would we get the programs off those tapes even if the tape WAS available to us? No one around here is going to build that computer, that's for sure. Someone would have to figure-out the format of the tape and then make a wav of it and then write a program it extract the data from it-- with all that work we could have some more games for the Arcadia by then... >> there is a program called 'PVI tester', useful to create playfields (remember the weird screen coding!), design sprites, and test sounds. >> If you're talking about the Arcadia (and not the built-it yourself computer), yes, I know. I have not even looked at how to create the screen using those lines (similar to the Odyssey 2, someone said). Designing sprites is easy with pen and paper, and if we wanted to, we could use programs for the C64 or the Atari 800 to get the data easily (but the sprites would have to be mono in any program we used). Any program that helps create a playfield would be MOST welcome. I was looking at Crazy Gobbler code again last night (all this Aracaia talk gets me in the mood, you know), and I was following the code with the MESS Debugger (which is a wonderful thing). The way that the maze is drawn is a little odd, and I was have a hard time following it- anyway, once I DID follow it I was writing the numbers for each 'block' on the special Arcadia 'graph paper' I made a few months ago (available in the download area). What a headache. Yes, a program that takes the pain out of that playfield creation would suit me just fine. When I created the Mothership screen I did it all on paper first, it didn't take a long time, but any help in that area would be great (especially with the color setup- I kept getting my colors wrong at first- but that was because I was just understanding how the process worked). >> Maybe an adapted 'monitor' could do something similar, even without extra RAM. Might be a useful tool for emulator coders, to tweak the bits and registers, to see what everything is good for on the 'Real Thing'. As i said, just a weird idea... >> Yea, just something to figure out the 'mystery' control bytes would be a good idea. >> Seriously: There are 2 RAM chips, 1024x4bit each, inside every Arcadia console, giving a grand total of 1K. BUT: one address line is tied to +5v, so only 512 bytes of RAM are actually used. >> I never added up the numbers in the tech info. That's depressing. >> Map: $0000 ROM $1000 PVI space $2000 ROM for large carts $7fff last memory location (is this correct?) >> Yes. Is all of 1000-17FF still ummapped? Maybe that's where the bitmapped graphics routines are stored, along with the other four sprites that no carts ever used... (a joke) >> that number '28' would at least make some sense. I doubt the 'marketing' people of UA would have cared much about the marginal difference between RAM and ROM. After all, it is memory anyway... >> Yes, that make perfect sense to me. I brought this up in a much earlier post as a suggestion as to where that "magic" number 28K comes from. I agree with you. So that makes two of us. The Adam computer was marketed as having 80K of RAM. My friend back then always made remarks that his Coleco Adam was so much better than my C64. Little did he know the poor fate of his machine was right over the horizon... >> If i ever build a multicart for one of these things, i maybe will write a large '28' on it... >> That's funny. Whoever has Ward's number 28 multicart's pretty lucky... Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 787 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:16am Subject: What does PVI stand for? atrionfo We keep using the term PVI, which I have inferred stands for the 2637 audio/video chip in the Arcadia. What does the term 'PVI' stand for? Adam 788 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:27am Subject: sprite movement and joystick routine atrionfo I mentioned in another posting today that I used the MESS debugger last night. I've used the debugger before, but with any real purpuse in mind. I just wanted to make sure it works. I've hand-disassembled some of the 'Crazy Gobbler' ROM earlier this year; I just wanted to make sure that what I worked out was correct. It was. 'Crazy Gobbler,' in my opinion draws the screen very differently than I filled my mothership screen. I expect that's because I just had a static screen. What I was really looking for was 'how does Crazy Gobbler work?' I want to write (copy?) a joystick routine so that i can move a couple of sprite around. I'm sorta slow at this, and it's going to take me some time to dig anything out of that ROM image. My goal, for now, is to see two sprite moving on a blank playield. One sprite controlled by joystick one, and the other sprite controlled by joystick two. I don't even want the sprite to have 'facing directions' (that is, when I move a sprite up, down, left, or right, the sprite will not look like it is facing that direction. From the Arcadia tech documents I know which memory areas to look for for joystick routines, and I'm going to keep my eyes peeled for those when using the debugger. Adam 789 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:29am Subject: Multicarts, was:Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. mc71de Hello, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Stefan wrote: > >> > I already have one of Wards [multi]carts (#2 *proud*) > >> I really would have wondered if you didn't... > > I asked for my multicart to be number 2001 > I suppose this number means more to us Arcadia 2001 > users than those people overseas that > don't use that named system. > > Adam So we have: Schmid TVG *2000* Hanimex *2650* (named after the processor) *2637* UVI - our beloved graphics chip *2621* PAL timing generator *2622* NTSC timing generator *28*K of RAM (well... maybe not...) * 28*1024 * same thing, number of bytes *30* contacts in the cart slot *775002* Neckermann's Order Code for the Palladium console more? -mc 790 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:30am Subject: Mothership fix? atrionfo Mothership works correctly on the emulator, but it doesn't always work right on the real machine. I've mentioned this before, but I MIGHT have found the problem. 'Crazy Gobbler' has three NOPs in a row almost right after the machine starts. Could these be to wait for the machine to settle down? If so, that could answer why sometimes Mothership works in the correct screen mode, and sometimes it starts out in the wrong one. I have to try it to find out, but it's rather low on my list of priorities-- just thought I'd mention it in case anyone is interested. Adam 791 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:37am Subject: Was there ever a 2650 ML book? atrionfo I own many ML books (mostly for the Z80 and 650x). I've searched hard, but I have never seen one that was written specifically for the 2650. I'm not talking about the '2650 User's Manual' from Signetics (that is just an explanation of each opcode-- athough that's almost all that you need if you understand ML for another processor already). I'm talking about a book that gives the in's and out's of the 2650 cpu- from beginner stuff to more advances issues. Since there was never a mass-produced computer that used the 2650 I guess this is why such a book doesn't exist-- or does it? Adam 792 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:38am Subject: Re: What does PVI stand for? mc71de Hello Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > We keep using the term PVI, which I have inferred stands > for the 2637 audio/video chip in the Arcadia. > What does the term 'PVI' stand for? > > Adam PVI 2636 : Programmable Video Interface used on Interton, Elektor's TV computer, a Radofin system, the Voltmaze Database... (argh... i'll have to learn some vocabulary...) UVI 2637 : Universal Video Interface used on Polybrain (alias Palladium Video Game Computer, 'Mr. Altus') and Arcadia 2001 (Schmid tvg2000, Hanimex 2650, ...) and more (for a much more complete list see Ward's FAQ, hope i didn't make some big mistake) -mc 793 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:54am Subject: Coincidence or not? atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> So we have: Schmid TVG *2000* Hanimex *2650* (named after the processor) *2637* UVI - our beloved graphics chip *2621* PAL timing generator *2622* NTSC timing generator *28*K of RAM (well... maybe not...) * 28*1024 * same thing, number of bytes *30* contacts in the cart slot *775002* Neckermann's Order Code for the Palladium console >> 30 contacts in the cart slot and 30 members to this discussion group. Can it be a mere coincidence? I think not. Adam (on the thirty members of the underground!) 794 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 5:56am Subject: Re: Was there ever a 2650 ML book? mc71de Hi, i'm short of time, but: --- "Adam Trionfo" asks: [Is there a ML book for beginners?] You will like the Elektor book as soon as we track down an english copy. You would not like the 'Topp' book mentioned by Chris Windler (files section, text 'usenet posts about the VC4000' or something like that). The latter is awful! (my oppinion) I don't know of any other book that wants to teach 2650, besides the signetics docs. The 2650 was never meant for 'Hobbyists', it always aimed at the industrial market. I still wonder why philips let Elektor and 'Topp' publish their 2650/2636 reference design... (Maybe another idea: Very early in it's history, there was a small computer using the 2650, featuring a 7segment LED display and a hexadecimal keyboard. I think it was one of those 'trainer' systems used to get engineers in touch with a new processor. Such a system should have had some teaching docs- but probably aimed at experienced engineers, not the 'hobbyist' who maybe had no knowledge about computers at all) HTH, -mc 795 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:07am Subject: Re: Coincidence or not? mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > 30 contacts in the cart slot and 30 members to this > discussion group. Can it be a mere coincidence? > I think not. > > Adam (on the thirty members of the underground!) Next interesting numbers: 32(?) pins on Interton carts 44 pins on Palladium carts Aaargh! Is this the american equivalent of the 'Bielefeld conspiration'[1] or what? -mc [1]: Bielefeld, a small city in western germany. A common (usenet) joke tells that B*e*e*e*d does not really exist, but THEY made it up and made everybody believe Bielefake exists, so that THEY once can take over government or even the world, and THEY will fight against everybody who discovers THEIR conspiration. Better THEY should never read this... 796 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:09am Subject: Re: sprite movement and joystick routine mc71de Hi Adam, I'll look for a nice code snippet when i scan my Elektor articles. Stay tuned... -mc 797 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:15am Subject: Proposed SIMPLE Monitor program atrionfo A proposal for a Simple Arcadia Monitor What happens if you try to read a byte from the 2637 at $1000-$1FFF? Some of the chip is RAM (for the sprites, etc- this memory space might be empty or even random at startup), some is data (like the character set), what is the rest? It's not code, is it? Is it even readable? What if a super simple 'monitor' displayed this hex to the screen? We wouldn't even have to make the program interactive: it could be hard-coded to start at $1000 and display a few bytes just to see what's there. Am I way off base on this idea? As a start, the program could fill the bottom of the display ($1A00-$1ACF) with some data- maybe letters from the internal character set- and then the top part of the display (($1800-$18CF) could write to the screen the hex of what's on the bottom of the screen. With this program we could then know that the program works correctly. We could then proceed to change the address of what memory addresses are displayed at the top of the screen (that is try to read from the 2637). This proposed program wouldn't really be a monitor at all, but it would let us see what's on that chip, if anything... maybe it's not even readable... Any thoughts? Adam 798 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:24am Subject: Re: sprite movement and joystick routine atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> I'll look for a nice code snippet when i scan my Elektor articles. >> Do you mean other material besides the German book? Stephan did send me a photocopy of the whole TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER book (thank you, Stephan!). I've looked through it. If you find something of interest just point out the page number, as I have trouble following the text (as I don't understand German). I'm guessing that I might have better luck with the MESS Disassembler, but if you find anything helpful, let me know (or even if you want to try your hand with the MESS Disassembler. Remember- it'f fun!). Adam 799 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:45am Subject: Re: Arcadia Monitor program mc71de Hi Adam (and everybody else of course...), --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > This posting got skipped by me somehow yesterday (I get all my message at > once in my email, rather than one at a time), Don't try to understand yahoo's message delivery... i heard of delays of several days... if everything fails, try the web interface... > so here are a few questions > this brings up. > > mc71de wrote: > >> > to do real programs, like the Elektor monitor was meant for, you > need RAM. > >> > > Understood, and that's why I thought we could add RAM to the cart (that was > before I read this posting of yours which kills THAT idea. not really... it's just easier to do there... > > >> > Easy to add [RAM] on the Palladium, but Arcadia needs adding one > or two wires into the console. > >> > > So except bank switching, there is no way to add RAM. a) solder a single wire into the console. Not complicated, just hold the iron where the insulating handle is :-) remember the girl in the tiffany ad! b) try what ATARI2600 ram carts do: use separate memory areas for 'read ram' and 'write ram'. Not a 'clean' solution, but most probably it will work. > Just a question: what > about a big 36K ROM ( I know they don't come in that size). > The 36K being > 8K large ROM plus using the memory that is available at: > > 0000-0FFF - First 4K or ROM > 2000-2FFF - Second 4K of ROM > 3000-7FFF - Third 28K of ROM (could be used... maybe?) > Ooops. Some little mistake in there, this machine has an address space of 32K... 0000-0fff: 1st 4K Rom 1000-1fff: blocked by UVI [call for PeT: Can we use PG0 on Palladium to take UVI off the address space? is 74ls21 'open collector'?] 2000-2fff: 2nd 4K Rom 3000-3fff: 3rd 4K Rom ... 7000-7fff: 7th 4k rom --------------------- 0-7fff (32767.dec) 32K address space, 7*4K=28K free space to put ROM in it. > Maybe us a 32K EPROM and not be able to make use of 4K of ROM? How does the > Arcadia map the ROM anyway? Does it automatically see the first 4K of the > ROM as 0000-0FFF, then see the second half as 2000-2FFF? It is just the cart's decision where it goes; you could even let it appear at the 'UVI' area, though this is not useful or even allowed. You could use a 32K eprom and 'blank out' the UVI area, i.e. don't generate a 'chip select' signal there. Just make sure the system vectors at the very lowest memory contain useful values. Usually, putting a ROM in this area is just comfortable. You can even put several roms in and switch around wich one will be used ('banking'). That's what i suspect the 'Video Lexicon' to do with it's daughter carts. > > >> > On the tape Elektor offered for their TV computer > >> > > It seems that having that tape wouldn't do us much good. It isn't like the > source code of the programs are on the tape. Even if the sourse WAS on the > tape, the source would only provide more examples of 2650 coding (which we > already know isn't Arcadia compatable). How would we get the programs off > those tapes even if the tape WAS available to us? No one around here is > going to build that computer, that's for sure. Fear you not! Once will come the day i will add the RAM and cassette port to my interton, side-by-side with some sort of multicart. I didn't want to talk about it in public, until it is ready, and i have to do the cart dumping project with Stefan, first. So stand by! > Someone would have to > figure-out the format of the tape and then make a wav of it and then write a > program it extract the data from it-- with all that work we could have some > more games for the Arcadia by then... That someone did the work already- in Philips' R&D dungeons, back in '78 when he coded the monitor program. Side note: Earlier to the tape, there were two other means of storing and distributing sounds, encoding TV computer programs therein: two RECORDS! Vinyl! Really! They had six records altogether for their different computer systems, one even with programs to produce christmas songs on the computer, though not 'our' TV computer. I've no clue why they used records and not tapes, even in the late 70ies. Seems to have been cheaper. > > >> > there is a program called 'PVI tester', useful to create playfields > (remember > the weird screen coding!), design sprites, and test sounds. > >> > > If you're talking about the Arcadia (and not the built-it yourself > computer), yes, I know. I have not even looked at how to create the screen > using those lines (similar to the Odyssey 2, someone said). Think i should re-read the UVI description again. The 'PVI tester' is for the PVI 2636 (interton, elektor DIY, etc.) iirc it is much worse than UVI 2637 (Arcadia, Palladium, etc.): you cover the screen with thin vertical lines. Then you expand them to the right, full way to the neighbour, halfway, or just a little bit. But not every line for it's own, but grouped together. it's a bit complicated without an explanatory drawing. It's suitable for mazes like tennis fields or labyrinths, but the elektor monitor manages to squeeze out a text display out of it! That is what is said to be similar to O2 (docs are out there on the net... will send you the link, probably before christmas!) That 'PVI tester' was meant to design this 'line art' by 'trial-and- error', you just could 'do it' and view the results live on-screen. But i thought the UVI 2637 Arcadia said Good-Bye to this scheme and uses some kind of bitmap graphics instead? Hmmm... And it has a text display, useful for monitors... > > >> > Maybe an adapted 'monitor' could do something similar, even without > extra RAM. Might be a useful tool for emulator coders, to tweak the > bits and registers, to see what everything is good for on the 'Real > Thing'. As i said, just a weird idea... > >> > > Yea, just something to figure out the 'mystery' control bytes would be a > good idea. > Exactly what i meant! > >> > Seriously: There are 2 RAM chips, 1024x4bit each, inside every > Arcadia console, giving a grand total of 1K. BUT: one address line > is tied to +5v, so only 512 bytes of RAM are actually used. > >> > > I never added up the numbers in the tech info. That's depressing. > > >> > Map: $0000 ROM > $1000 PVI space > $2000 ROM for large carts > $7fff last memory location > > (is this correct?) > >> > > Yes. Is all of 1000-17FF still ummapped? Maybe that's where the bitmapped > graphics routines are stored, along with the other four sprites that no > carts ever used... (a joke) Please don't laugh now, but this is serious now: The PVI 2636 (which needs not to access external RAM) has a pin to distinguish if it outputs 'foreground' or 'background', and it is put into address space just like every peripheral device on every other computer. It is even DESIGNED to co-exist with other 2636 devices, and tieing the video output together. See the wiretap archive: http://www.spies.com/~arcade/dataSheets/signetics/sig2636.TIFF (to PeT: is this the solution for that chess board? book claims it is just done with standard system plus the 'big' card, but who knows...) Please forgive me; i'll post the relevant pic at the weekend... Anyway... By using this method, we could easily make systems with LOTS of sprites. Just buy several VC4000's, butcher them, and stack lots of PVI's... > > >> > that number '28' would at least make some > sense. I doubt the 'marketing' people of UA would have cared much > about the marginal difference between RAM and ROM. After all, it is > memory anyway... > >> > > Yes, that make perfect sense to me. I brought this up in a much earlier > post as a suggestion as to where that "magic" number 28K comes from. I > agree with you. So that makes two of us. The Adam computer was marketed as > having 80K of RAM. My friend back then always made remarks that his Coleco > Adam was so much better than my C64. Little did he know the poor fate of > his machine was right over the horizon... Go to the next computer shop, one that will repair or upgrade systems in the back room. Usually these have defective RAM modules, that they will give you for a 'thank you'. Try to get a 64M module. Now put some hot glue onto the edge of the module, let it cool down for a second, then insert it into the cooling vents of your c64. Hold in place until the glue is cold and hard. Last, get a permanent marker of your favourite color, and add an 'M' just behind the '64' of the c64 name plate. Sign off jour masterpiece with your name. you just built your very own c64m, and it indeed has 64m of memory. Not that vaporware 28K in the Arcadia! Now invite your friend! Btw, how much RAM did that poor Coleco Adam have indeed? > > >> > If i ever build a multicart for one of these things, i maybe will > write a large '28' on it... > >> > > That's funny. Whoever has Ward's number 28 multicart's pretty lucky... :-) (no, i don't have it...) > > Adam -mc 800 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:55am Subject: Re: Proposed SIMPLE Monitor program mc71de Hi! --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > A proposal for a Simple Arcadia Monitor > [snip] > Any thoughts? > > Adam Cool! Just what i meant! give it a try! next: read the keypad; if depressed (no, not you. One of the keys!) [1] set a new starting address and repeat. Thus you can 'browse' through memory. Pitfall: after detecting a pressed key, wait until it is released again. Otherwise, you will 'flash'through page after page, being unable to stop where you want. next: examine the key that was pressed. if 'x' is pressed, add to the pointer. if 'y' is pressed, subtract, so you can browse backwards... -mc 801 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 8:16am Subject: Re: sprite movement and joystick routine mc71de Hi everyone! Just some minutes before midnight here. That Trionfo guy keeps me busy today...) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > mc71de wrote: > >> > I'll look for a nice code snippet when i scan my Elektor articles. > >> > > Do you mean other material besides the German book? Well... not really. The book was a 'cumulation' of several articles in the Elektor mag, starting in april '79 and set forth as something new was to offer. Currently, i'm scanning (electronically and by reading them) these articles, and compare them against the book. What is not in the book, will be 'mentally marked'. I plan to make these scans available on CDrom or by email (not yet decided, somewhat depends on the data volume. If someone has ~30MB webspace to offer, speak up!) and write up what might be useful for others. I seem to remember some discussion of scanning the joysticks, and calibrating them, since there were large differences in the values of the components (remember it was a DIY project, and one computer might give a range of 05..28 when reading a pot register, where another system would give values of 33..80. Something like that. > If you find something of interest just point out the > page number, as I have trouble following the text > (as I don't understand German). Good idea; make an english list of what every listing and picture means... will see what is possible... We NEED that darned english version... > I'm guessing that I might have better luck with the MESS > Disassembler, but if you find anything helpful, let me > know (or even if you want to try your hand with the MESS > Disassembler. Remember- it'f fun!). > > Adam I will have to recompile MESS to do so, right? Hard times to come... Can someone please tell me when i shall find time to work on that 'Dump those Bandai carts and Video lexikon' project? And i want my interton to display the elektor monitor... -mc, busy... 802 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 10:09am Subject: Re: Arcadia Monitor program mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Now that is neat to find out. I may as well sell that > cart now- I held onto it because I thought it game some > tips on programming the console. Well, actually you *can* program the O2 with Computer Intro!, but not in it's 'native' code. You could as well sell Bally Basic, because it's not 'native Z80'... [ozyr's manual archive] > @mc71de: Not sure what you are talking about here. > I don't even remember having a link to that site. > Maybe someone else added it- I'll take a look > soon. I'll have a look. Yes, it was someone else. Will post updatet link there if you didn't already do so. > True enough. I've talked to many people over the years > that did just that before they got disk drives for their > C-64 or Atari 800. I can't imagine doing that now, but > when that's the only choice you've got, you go with what > you've got. I suppose I would have been one of those > folks too, but I won't be one of them now. And even the tape recorders were expensive... Think it was part of the big success Sinclair machines had (at least in europe) that you cuold hook up any cassette recorder you had at home... > I'm pretty sure that if you hold down ALL the buttons > at once on the Arcadia you get a really nice monitor... > [that's a joke there] On Plus/4 and C128 it is [run/stop]reset. So we want to track down the [run/stop] key on the Arcadia. On C128, [cbm]reset boots into c64 mode. So [UA]reset should boot an Arcadia into Interton mode... so where's that [UA] key, and will it probably be labelled [EMERSON] on an Emerson Arcadia, or will we have to look for a Key with that musical key on it? Don't try to tell me jokes... ;-) [...] > fat book called, "Secrets of the conole that you > are looking for." It would be printed in any language > you need and could be ordered online (or even > available as html or a pdf file). Yea... Maybe a separate book for each console would be more handy... > > >> > Anyone wants to build a disk system for the Astrocade??? > >> > > Anyone wanna build a memory expansion for it first??? *building* one should be a piece of cake. IIRC your problem at ballyalley Y!group was to create a ready-built plug-in solution for a price that cannot be achieved with the expected low number of units that might be sold. If i *had* one, i surely would put some extra ram into that thing. And some cooling devices onto the chips. And leave the cover open. Wonder if the overheating problems were intentional, to raise the number of systems sold... And: *never* insert or remove a cart when the console is on!!! It is a Really Bad Thing[TM], a bit like playing russian roulette. I know it is a common trick, but i also know these machines die like flies. And tere's *no* protection against the dangers of 'hot plugging'. If we should go into detail, call for me over at the ballyalley list. Or did Interton/whoever else recommend to first switch on and then plug in a module? -mc 803 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 0:01pm Subject: Re: Proposed SIMPLE Monitor program mc71de Hi! No, i'm not schizophrene, to answer my own message. Only forgot something... --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > Hi! > [Adam]> A proposal for a Simple Arcadia Monitor > Cool! Just what i meant! give it a try! > next: read the keypad; if depressed (no, not you. One of the > keys!) [1] set a new starting address and repeat. Thus you > can 'browse' through memory. Pitfall: after detecting a > pressed key, wait until it is released again. Otherwise, > you will 'flash'through page after page, being unable to > stop where you want. > next: examine the key that was pressed. if 'x' is pressed, add to > the pointer. if 'y' is pressed, subtract, so you can browse > backwards... > > -mc [1] This joke intellectual property of Jeri Ellsworth, inventor, engineer and producer of C1; or is it inventress, ..err, what would the female forms of the other two words be? 804 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:05pm Subject: Multicarts, was:Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. stefanpiasecki > I asked for my multicart to be number 2001- and that's the number I have. I > was surprised nobody had requested that number already. I suppose this > number means more to us Arcadia 2001 users than those people overseas that > don't use that named system. What an idea!!! Of course, we TVG2000 users could have asked for that number, but I am still happy with my honest and straight #2. haha Stefan 805 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:10pm Subject: Multicarts, was:Re: Super Bug, HowDif, etc. stefanpiasecki *775002* Neckermann's Order Code for the Palladium console Now, this one is cool..... Stefan 806 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:13pm Subject: Re: Coincidence or not? stefanpiasecki Wow, I was called many names in my career, but nobody ever called me a "contact". Pull the Ward, dude! Stefan 807 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 6:17pm Subject: Re: Was there ever a 2650 ML book? stefanpiasecki Hi, I am busy job-wise at the moment, but had a very friendly contact at Elektor who was promising help to our questions incl. direct connections to the original authors of these books. They might have an English copy or maybe just the docs. I'll get on it from next week on, loads to do for me right now. Same goes for the Interton-guys. Due to the recession in Europe I had more work than usual to keep normal things going normal ways or even to kick butts in order to get invoices paid to our company. Poeple are so slow when it comes to paying these days... But things should go smoother from next week on. Stefan 808 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:06pm Subject: Re: Was there ever a 2650 ML book? mc71de Hi Stefan, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Hi, I am busy job-wise at the moment, but had a very friendly contact > at Elektor who was promising help to our questions incl. direct > connections to the original authors of these books. They might have > an English copy or maybe just the docs. I'll get on it from next week > on, loads to do for me right now. > Same goes for the Interton-guys. Due to the recession in Europe I had > more work than usual to keep normal things going normal ways or even > to kick butts in order to get invoices paid to our company. Poeple > are so slow when it comes to paying these days... > But things should go smoother from next week on. > Stefan As i said, there *is* an english version. Only problem is to get our fingers on a copy... You wouldn't like to take next year's summer holidays somewhere near Hannover, would you? -mc 809 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 17, 2002 7:17pm Subject: Re: Coincidence or not? mc71de Hi, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Wow, I was called many names in my career, but > nobody ever called me a "contact". Wasn't 'contact' a common word for 'pirate copy swapping and cracking buddy'? Of course we all would only know this word by ear, never doing such nasty things... > Pull the Ward, dude! > Stefan Recently, i tried to pull his leg. we should make a corollary idiom. a- Pull the ward. b- Pull the Ward. c- Pull the Ward's leg. Hope we will not do: d- Pull the Ward apart. No jokes with names, please, folks! And Ward: No offense intended, just pure admiration for the work of a great guy! -mc 810 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 0:59am Subject: Re: Coincidence or not? atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> Hope we will not do: d- Pull the Ward apart. >> I think Ward is hoping that more than all the rest of us combined. This had me LAUGHING. I wish I could think of an e. but it's too early for me to think of anything funny right now. Maybe later. Poor Ward, ever since "pull a Ward" has become part of the public glossary here on the discussion group we have all tried to use his name in a number of twisted ways. I'm glad I have not done anything to deserve such attention. Adam 811 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 2:51am Subject: Interton Monitor ROM image atrionfo In a previous post from yesterday (which I can't find) mc71de said that he would like to have the Monitor program from the book TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER running on his Interton console (from cartridge, I suppose). Is the memory map for the Interton the same as that for this build-it-yourself computer (the DP guide gives that impression)? The monitor program needs more memory than the Interton has (I suppose)- can you add memory to the Interton to make it more like the build-it-yourself computer (mc71de did mention adding a cassette recorder to the machine, so maybe the Interton VC4000 is expandable to at least hardware folks?). The reason that I ask these questions is because the listing of the monitor program, like any assembly listing, has the hex digits that are the actual machine language program. It would be a breeze to type those hex digits into a hex editor. It sure would be easier than trying to retype all of the source-code for the program. The seventh edition of the Digital Press Collectors Guide says, "an interesting side not (sic) is that there exists a self-construction computer compatible to the Interton system." The same source goes one to say, "According to Mr. Bieling only minor changes have to be done to make those games running from cartridge on the VC4000." The "games" talked about in the previous quote are those that are on the tape for the home-built computer. Perhaps the monitor only needs minor adjustments to make it run from cartridge? Is putting some time into typing in the hex code (basically the ROM image) for the monitor worth it? I'd be willing to do it. I don't have an Interton system (and it won't make sense to get a PAL machine- I live in the USA), but I might learn a bit about the simple monitor for the Arcadia that I posted about yesterday. I can type in the hex, I can proofread the hex, but the final word that the code is correct will be from this group. I'll post, in PDF format, the hex code and a few people (at least one person, hopefully two people) will need to proofread the hex again- just to make sure it's exactly the same as what's shown in the book. This task requires no programming knowledge at all- it's basically grunt work. The monitor program was scanned in and posted in the file section. The 1.4MB pdf file is called 2650_monitor_program.pdf, and you can find it here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_examples/PDF_formatted_files/ I need a volunteer or two to promise proofreading before I get started in typing in the hex code- if this idea even makes sense. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 812 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:16am Subject: Interton Motocross creation atrionfo I've read the whole section on Interton VC4000 games in the DP Guide. The additional information listed beneath Motocross (probably all OLD news to you) is interesting to me. Here is the man, Mr. Bieling, quoted as saying that he created the game on his home made computer. Do you imagine that he used the monitor program to create the game? Wow, that would be some job! Most games for consoles, even back then, were created using cross-assemblers running on some DEC or CPM machine, at the very least assemblers on the base platform were used. Certainly Mr. Bieling's case is not unique (there are cases of this on the Astrocade- the system with which I'm most familiar, and I know it happened in Atari and Apple land too), but using a monitor is far from the norm for console systems. How much RAM could you put in that home-built computer? Mr. Bieling wrote a 4K game, Dragster (name changed to Motocross) on his "Elektor TV-Spielcomputer," so he needed more than 4K of RAM to create it because the monitor needs RAM to run, or could he have somehow broken the work into chunks? Would he have been saving his work to tape while it was in progress, and finally could a printer be hooked up to the home-built computer? It would be hard to check your code just working with that monitor (the letters are so big), but then again, with intuition, patience, and hard work people with determination can do just about anything. Adam 813 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:23am Subject: Group members - Who reads what? atrionfo Interesting to note: Of the thirty people that are members of this group, only eighteen members receive email (either as a daily digest or as individual email), the rest of the group have to take the "trouble" to come and visit the website; I'm sure that most of them forget. So, realistically, we probably have about fifteen to twenty people that read the discussions that go on here. From experience on the Astrocade group I'd say that maybe half that amount, seven to ten people, understand what the messages are about. Anyone care to disagree with this completely non-scientific estimate? Adam 814 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 1:28pm Subject: Home-Built Computer Monitor - Typed! atrionfo I typed in the hex code for the monitor for the home-built computer (the monitor program is listed on pages 240-263 in the book TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER). The typing took just over two hours. Tomorrow I'll print out a hard copy for myself of what I typed and compare the printout the book- if all is okay then I will upload it for one other proofreading by another discussion group member (or two) before it gets the final okay as "official." Now the question becomes- can we even use this program? I can't remember anyone saying that they have access to this home-built machine. Maybe someday someone will get it to work with the Interton (or a to-be-written emulator?). Anyone that wants to burn the program to EPROM now can. Wow, access to a program that no one will ever be able to use! Adam 815 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 3:39pm Subject: Re: Home-Built Computer Monitor - Typed! mc71de Hi, --- "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I typed in the hex code for the monitor Cool! > if all is okay then I will upload it for one other > proofreading by another discussion group member (or > two) before it gets the final okay as "official." Please do so. I want to compare it against 'something' i have but don't want to talk about. > Maybe someday someone will get it to work with > the Interton (or a to-be-written emulator?). ...or maybe has already done... I don't know if it is in the DPCG, but i know a german version of the interview with Mr. Bieling, that was once online, where he says that back in the days this 'Elektor extension cart for VC4000' really existed. It was not a mass product, though. > Wow, access to a program that no one will ever be able to use! > You probably are wrong here... > Adam -mc 816 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 4:06pm Subject: Re: Interton Motocross creation mc71de Hi, --- "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Mr. Bieling wrote a 4K game, Dragster (name > changed to Motocross) on his "Elektor > TV-Spielcomputer," so he needed more than > 4K of RAM to create it because the monitor > needs RAM to run, or could he have somehow > broken the work into chunks? No need to do that. Some 30 program tapes were offered for the Elektor TV computer on tape (almost enough to claim it a console group of its own...). Many of these were converted into VC4000 carts. Just need to adjust addresses in the code from 2k..4k area to 0k..2k area. Of course you can't use ROM subroutines this way. And there were also RAM expansions for the Elektor machine... Look at page 171pp. of the Elektor book. This add-on board offers 3k of additional RAM! And two programmable sound generators (every Atari ST has *one* of these!!!)! And look at the pcb layout. there should be two connectors on the board, one single row narrow spacing, and quite next to it a double row, wider spacing. If they did not overhaul the layout from the article published in the mag, you will find markings 'int' and 'rad'. Interton? Radofin? (Hope they didn't remove this. Will post mag's article some day. Am quite busy at the moment.) > Would he have been saving his work to tape while it was > in progress, and finally could a printer be hooked up to > the home-built computer? It would be hard to check your > code just working with that monitor Save work occasionally: yes. Print out: no. Maybe prepare work on paper and type in afterWARDs. ooops, sorry... For an example, google for 'sandy white ant attack' (it's sinclair spectrum, but same principles apply) > (the letters are so big), *LOL* This is really the first time someone complains about letters being *TOO BIG*. They look ugly, yes. But something you want to read rarely can be too big... > but then again, with intuition, patience, > and hard work people with determination can do > just about anything. > > Adam Remember: It was a hobby. People tend to spend lots of time into their hobbies... Bieling is not even a programmer today. -mc 817 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 18, 2002 5:54pm Subject: Re: Group members - Who reads what? stefanpiasecki I read everything and understand most of it (except that hardcore machine code stuff). Stefan 818 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 1:56am Subject: Hand Assembled Example atrionfo mc71de mentioned Sandy White's webpage as a neat place to check out an example of a hand assembled game. Here is her site: http://sandywhite.co.uk/fun/ants/ Not only does Sandy have some cool methods to coding, but her sense of humor makes the page fun to read. Plus, I got to try the game on the webpage. I've never ever used a Spectrum before (they were not released in the US- well it was, kinds, as the 2048, I think). Anyway, this page is fun, short and I'd say not to be missed by an classic gaming fan. Over on the Astrocade page, a fellow that I exchange phone calls and letters with sent me some hand-assembled code for the Astrocade. I took it and created source code and then then sent him an Assembly Listing of it. I mailed a printout of this to him and he wondered why bother: he thought it was easier just to code the machine and not worry about the assembler at all. I'll never forget him saying that to me: it made me realize that there are people that code, and there are people that write CODE. I don't CODE, that's for sure. Adam 819 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 2:13am Subject: Re: Interton Motocross creation atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> Some 30 program tapes were offered for the Elektor TV computer on tape (almost enough to claim it a console group of its own...). >> Someone in Astrocade Land is making a listing of the BASIC tapes and there are more than I ever imagined. Thirty tapes is enough to get a hardcore collector interested- course that collector would probably never be able to play the game. >> Many of these [tapes] were converted into VC4000 carts. Just need to adjust addresses in the code from 2k..4k area to 0k..2k area. >> You make it sound so easy. If you know how to program for the machine it probably is easy, but time consuming. What about the rest of us? >> This add-on board [for the home-built computer] offers 3k of additional RAM! And two programmable sound generators (every Atari ST has *one* of these!!!)! >> More RAM is always good (like you needed someone to tell you that). With my Astrocade and 16K RAM expansion I've done cool stuff that you could never do with a standard 4k Astrocade like: copy carts to tape, examine an 8K cart in memory, have a smaller font, program in hex (but not assembly), disassemble a cart or on-board ROM, play games made only for memory-expanded Astrocade machines. A 32K 2650 could do these things too (if the software was available). Of course, now the burden has shifted to the PC, the only thing the Arcadia or Interton needs to do is play the games. Which is just fine. >> If they did not overhaul the [PCB] layout from the article published in the mag, you will find markings 'int' and 'rad'. Interton? Radofin? >> It's still there in the book. Interesting theory, I wonder how you could ever find proof for that one? >> > (the letters are so big), *LOL* This is really the first time someone complains about letters being *TOO BIG*. They look ugly, yes. But something you want to read rarely can be too big... >> Well, in my eyes a monitor needs to be able to list at least 32 characters across for 0-F hex. That's not including spaces between the hex pairs, but that's okay. It also would be nice to be able to see where in memory you are at the beginning of each line (i.e. 0000, 0010, 0020, etc). >> Remember: It was a hobby. People tend to spend lots of time into their hobbies... >> Sure. Look at us. Adam 820 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 2:20am Subject: Re: Group members - Who reads what? atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> I read everything and understand most of it (except that hardcore machine code stuff). >> It was just an observation I made when I was looking at the members yesterday: besides, I would have bet that you (Stefan) read everything on this group (and then go to other groups to read more about other machine). As for the hardcore ML stuff, there isn't much of it here (if at all). I'm very light in this area myself. Anytime I write something that is convoluted- let me know and I'll clear it up for you. I'm discovering that the best way to learn ML is to jump in and get your hands dirty. Disassembling Crazy Gobbler has taught me a lot (for example: it takes a long time to do!). Adam 821 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 7:42am Subject: ML Monitor Uploaded to File Area atrionfo ML Monitor Uploaded- but another proofreader needed The Machine Language Monitor program has been typed from the book called TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER. This binary file has been proofread once by me (Adam), but it would be VERY good to have someone else proofread it against the original. Any volunteers? The file is called monitor.bin and is located on the discussion group in the file area here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_examples/Binary_or_object_files/ Let me know if this program is of any use to anyone. Remember that this program is not meant to run on the Aracadia or the Interton VC4000- it will only run on the home-built computer. Adam 822 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 11:31am Subject: Re: The Elektor book - english version atrionfo This information was gained using previous info gathered by mc71de. I searched the Worldcat records for the English version of the Elektor book and got good results-- it's in four libraries! BUT, now I live in New Mexico and I no longer have access to Worldcat (I had to use my old New York library account to gain access to the service). So I am giving the information to you guys overseas with hopes that you can get one of these books using Worldcat. Here is the information, including the libraries that have the book: Location Library Code -------- ------- ---- EU BRITISH LIBR UKM EU CAMBRIDGE UNIV CUD EU TRINITY COL, DUBLIN ERD EU UNIV OF OXFORD EQO Title: The TV games computer: an exciting introduction to microprocessors Author: Holmes, P. Author(s): Holmes, P. 1937- (Peter), Publication: [Canterbury] : Elektor, Year: 1981 Description: 248 p. : ill., music ; 21 cm. Language: English Standard No: ISBN: 0905705084 (pbk) : SUBJECT(S) Descriptor: Computer games. Microprocessors. Identifier: Electronic games; Applications of microcomputer systems Class Descriptors: LC: GV1469.2; Dewey: 794.8/028/5404 Responsibility: P. Holmes. Document Type: Book Entry: 19841015 Update: 20020219 Accession No: OCLC: 12452453 Database: WorldCat I plan to see if I can send for this book from the local library, but the chances are VERY slim (plus, the libraries listed are much closer discussion group readers in Germany). Let's try to order the book and then see who gets it first. Who ever does, share the wealth: scan it in! Anyone overseas know if they have access to Worldcat? Adam 824 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 3:29pm Subject: monitor.bin finished and completely proofread atrionfo I have uploaded yet another version of monitor.bin (otherwise known as 2650bios, I've learned). It is the final version, complete and totally proofread. I was able to make sure that this file is correct with the help of Pet. Thanks! I found two differences between the file I typed in from the book as monitor.bin and another file called 2650bios. The first difference is the last byte, $7FF. The assembly listing in the book does not use that last byte of 2K, but the 2650bios has an $82 there. An $82 assembles to this: addz r2 I'm not sure if the program ever reaches this section of code, but I'm sticking with the $82 in $7FF. The other piece of code that there is a difference between is at $435. The code $CD on the Listing side of the book does not match what the source should assemble to. I hand assembled it, then checked with the VACS Assembler just to make sure. Here is what VACS gives for that line: 0000 CC08A3 stra,r0 08a3h The book's source code is correct, but the ML Listing is wrong: I have no idea how that could happen. Any ideas? We'll go with the 2650BIOS ROM image (of course). That wraps up the comparison. If you downloaded an earlier copy of monitor.bin (yesterday or today, please delete it, it is obsolete) Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 825 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 19, 2002 5:20pm Subject: Re: monitor.bin finished and completely proofread mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I have uploaded yet another version of monitor.bin (otherwise known as > 2650bios, I've learned). It is the final version, complete and totally > proofread. I was able to make sure that this file is correct with the help > of Pet. Thanks! > That is exactly what i wanted to do... I just felt unshure if i could disclose the origin of 2650bios.bin, the 'something' i didn't want to talk about yesterday. So you saved me doing the comparison. Good! Now i will look what this CC/CD thing is about... This weekend, i will try to scan the main schematic of the elektor TV computer and put them into the files section. If i can manage to do so (in readable quality), i will post some quick notes how to build a VC4000 cart that adds the needed RAM and cassette interface (and an eprom, of course). I definitely will (try to) build such a device 'one day', but i think i am supposed to work on dumping those Bandai carts first?!? Maybe we should use Yahoo's vote feature to decide about my work schedule... Thanks Adam, thanks PeT. Stay tuned, i will keep you up-to-date. And Stefan: please be patient. We will dump 'em, for sure, one day. Keep your fingers crossed that my ideas will work... -mc 828 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Oct 20, 2002 2:56am Subject: Re: monitor.bin finished and completely proofread atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> That is exactly what i wanted to do... [proofread the program] So you saved me doing the comparison. Good! Now i will look what this CC/CD thing is about... >> It's not any deeper than the description I wrote yesterday. If you look into it even for a few minutes you'll see what I'm talking about. >> i will try to scan the main schematic of the elektor TV computer and put them into the files section. >> Is that the same stuff that is in the book? >> If i can manage to do so (in readable quality) >> Yes, that's the key, isn't it. I noticed two days ago that the monitor program scans that I uploaded back in June (?) are not nearly as nice as the photocopy I have, but it's still readable. >> i will post some quick notes how to build a VC4000 cart that adds the needed RAM and cassette interface (and an eprom, of course). >> Any hardware folks out there willing to look into this? >> I definitely will (try to) build such a device 'one day', but i think i am supposed to work on dumping those Bandai carts first?!? >> Dump the Bandai carts first. Let's get that done and out of the way before we move onto new projects. Oh, and I'm not saying that because I can't use an Interton here in the US (okay, yes I am...). >> Thanks Adam, thanks PeT. Stay tuned, i will keep you up-to-date. >> Glad I could be of service. Adam 829 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 1:02am Subject: [OT]Odyssey programming info; was:Re: Arcadia Monitor program mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > Hi Adam, > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" > wrote: > > Now that is neat to find out. I may as well sell that > > cart now- I held onto it because I thought it game some > > tips on programming the console. > > Well, actually you *can* program the O2 with Computer Intro!, but > not in it's 'native' code. You could as well sell Bally Basic, > because it's not 'native Z80'... Update: Programming info for the Odyssey/ G7000 is here: http://soeren.infoserv.de/g7000/bios.html and here: http://www.atarihq.com/danb/o2.shtml#techfiles Have fun! -mc 830 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:18am Subject: Monitor Source; was:Odyssey programming info atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> Update: Programming info for the Odyssey/ G7000 is here: >> Are you trying to distract me? I'm working on 2650 stuff now... I'm making an attempt to type in the source for the 2650 monitor program for the home-built computer. I'm not sure if I will complete this project anytime soon (even 2K of source is a lot to type). Plus, I need to convert a few things to work with the VACS assembler. I didn't plan on doing this until yesterday, then I decided it would be nice to have some well documented 2650 code that is rather involved, and this code is the most involved source I've seen (plus it's more useful than a game- course it won't run on anything we own). I went to the library and asked about an English version of TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER. The library system doesn't have access to Worldcat (they've never even heard of it), but they do have an inter-library loan system. For one dollar I can request a check and they will search a central database to check for one book. The librarian was not sure if the system would check outside the USA, but I figured that it was worth a try. I also plan to call the main library and suggest that the library system here get access to Worldcat. Adam 831 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:11am Subject: Re: Monitor Source; was:Odyssey programming info mc71de Dear Adam! --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > mc71de wrote: > >> > Update: Programming info for the Odyssey/ G7000 is here: > >> > > Are you trying to distract me? I'm working on 2650 stuff now... > Hey! I promised to post that stuff... Remember our discussion of 'Computer Intro!'? Anyway, the 2650 seems to be quite similar to the 8042 in some aspects, and *you* mentioned the rumored similarity of Oddyssey's video display to the arcadia system. Maybe some other people want to dig into that stuff? At a quick glance, it seems indeed more similar to the Arcadia (has both text mode and graphics mode; i have not compared graphics modes yet. But O2 seems not too similar to 2636 PVI... > I'm making an attempt to type in the source for > the 2650 monitor program for the home-built computer. > I'm not sure if I will complete this project > anytime soon (even 2K of source is a lot to type). > Plus, I need to convert a few things to work with > the VACS assembler. I didn't plan on doing this > until yesterday, then I decided it would be nice > to have some well documented 2650 code that is rather > involved, and this code is the most ... WAY COOL! HOLD ON! PULL THE ADAM! (or what was it?) It will be VERY useful to have the source code. We will be able to convert it to Arcadia (Even without add-on RAM and cassette port) and burn it onto Eprom. The 'tweak the secret bits' thing i mentioned some days ago. Definitely a Good Thing[TM] to have... > ... involved source I've seen (plus it's more useful > than a game- course it won't run on anything we own). > Oh please stop teasing me! It's an old joke by now! It can be done, it has been done, it will be done! If you won't stop it, i will build it by next weekend and come up with a proposal of how to convert an Interton to NTSC. But you do want me to work on Bandai dumping first, don't you? > I went to the library and asked about an English > version of TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER. The library system > doesn't have access to Worldcat > (they've never even heard of it), but they do have > an inter-library loan system. That's the expression i am looking for! Same here in germany, but i'm not shure yet if i can use this system to get the english book i localized at 'Universit,tsbibliothek Hannover'. And it's just a bit too far away from here to just drive there, get the book, drive home, scan it, and drive back to return the book. But time will show. > For one dollar I can request a check and they > will search a central database to check for one book. Duh! Research is free here... you only have to pay a low nominal fee if you actually order a book via inter library loan. BTW, here's the link: http://www1.digibib-nrw.de/ To access it, select 'Englisch' at 'Spracheinstellungen...' and click 'als Gast'. (Language select: english, guest log-in) Now enter your search words at the left and select one or more databases at the right. They also have some foreign databases to choose from. Enjoy! -mc > The librarian was not sure if the system > would check outside the USA, but I figured that > it was worth a try. I also > plan to call the main library and suggest that > the library system here get > access to Worldcat. > > Adam 832 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 4:24am Subject: Re: Monitor Source; was:Odyssey programming info atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> >Are you trying to distract me? I'm working on 2650 stuff now... > Hey! I promised to post that stuff... Remember our discussion of 'Computer Intro!'? >> I know, I was just teasing you. I have seen links to it before, and when I bought Amok! a few years ago I thought that it might be neat to mess with the Odyssey 2, but I lost interest after seeing how limited the system was. Amok! may very well be one of the best games on the Odyssey 2, but it's got its limitations too- although you can die more than once (also, it gets very hard). >> Maybe some other people want to dig into that stuff? >> I wasn't trying to stop anyone else- I was just speaking for myself. Sometimes I do feel like this public forum is just a couple of us, and if I seem like I'm crowding anyone, then please put me in my place by saying so. >> >>I'm making an attempt to type in the source for >the 2650 monitor program for the home-built computer. It will be VERY useful to have the source code. >> That's what I thought too. Don't expect me to "Pull a Ward" though. He's got the claim to fame on that. I'm a slow-poke in that area. I might need some help towards the end too. If I do, I'll ask. >> >course it [the monitor] won't run on anything we own). > If you won't stop [teasing me], i will build it by next weekend and come up with a proposal of how to convert an Interton to NTSC. But you do want me to work on Bandai dumping first, don't you? >> I'm not teasing. There is going to be quite a bit of code changes that need to be made before this code would work on an Arcadia (probably better to start over and use what we can, as PeT suggested). If you get this monitor working on an Interton soon, they YOU will have "pulled a Ward." I don't expect miracles, and I'm not trying to push you in that direction. I'm guessing that making an NTSC Interton is a joke, right? >> And [the library] just a bit too far away from here to just drive there, get the book, drive home, scan it, and drive back to return the book. But time will show. >> No rush; I've got my hands full with retyping the source. Maybe something will come of my inter-library check? If not, then I might write to the libaries directly. Adam 833 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Oct 21, 2002 5:34am Subject: Re: Monitor Source; was:Odyssey programming info mc71de Hello everyone, hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > mc71de wrote: > >> > >Are you trying to distract me? I'm working on 2650 stuff now... > > > Hey! I promised to post that stuff... Remember our discussion > of 'Computer Intro!'? > >> > > I know, I was just teasing you. That's what i hoped... On one of these pages there is also a RAM Cart with serial connection to PC's, so you can load your own stuff into the O2. And yes, it is *very* limited- painfully limited. But somewhat interesting... > Sometimes I do feel like this public forum is just a > couple of us, and if I > seem like I'm crowding anyone, then please put me in > my place by saying so. > Indeed... but yet no-one came and cried: 'Hey you german mc guy! Shut up and go away!' So maybe someone out there might listen to us... > That's what I thought too. Don't expect me to > "Pull a Ward" though. Definitely not. But i am too lazy to even start it. But i might jump in later, or give it a try to do the modifications to use it on the Arcadia... > There is going to be quite a bit of code changes that > need to be made before this code would work on an Arcadia ACK. But this code seems to be quite modular, so you could start with rewriting the screen output, then spicing up the listing and editing routines. Tape IO might be a bit harder though (even with an interface). But tape io has very low priority in my eyes anyway... > If you get this monitor working on an Interton soon, > they YOU will have "pulled a Ward." So maybe four hours of concentrated work is 'pulling the ward'? Interesting... The only problem is to just kick myself in the back to start it... > I don't expect miracles, and I'm not trying to push > you in that direction. No? But in every second posting you say 'it will never happen'. I take that as a challenge ;-) > I'm guessing that making an NTSC Interton is a joke, right? > short: no. long: it is more difficult than doing that monitor cart, and i don't know if it really will work. But since there seems to be *no* NTSC 2636 system, it might be worth it to give it a try. And at Ebay germany, VC400's are amazingly cheap. And they use single-sided cart pcb's, which makes life easier when you want to build a cart on your own. 'The book' even has a pcb layout! Only problem is that you might to have to butcher an arcadia machine for such a conversion. We will see. But it was *no* joke! > > No rush; I've got my hands full with retyping the source. > Maybe something will come of my inter-library check? > If not, then I might write to the libaries directly. > > Adam But it's *me* who wants to have this book. There are *tons* of useful things in there, but i'm too lazy to translate... and most of us can't make any use of german text :-( BTW: If anyone wants to have scans of the book (In german!), please feel free to mail me and ask. Most likely we'll manage to work something out... (it is ~10 MB alltogether) Maybe someone has a little bit of webspace to offer? So, maybe i am in 'fall mode' today (or 'autumn mode', depending on your linguistical preferences...), but i don't think we have any real differences here- sorry if i should have left the impression ;-) And remember: have fun! -mc p.s.: Play a round of 'ant attack at Sandy White's site- it is running there in a Java applet. COOL! But i can't figure out whether Sandy is indeed a man... hmmm... I always had that impression, and wasn't the boy at 'flipper the dolphin' called Sandy too? p.p.s.: Back then, i played AA on a 9 inch b&w portable TV. When 'HE' and 'SHE' meet, the person to be rescued calls out 'OH MY HERO'. My screen was so bad that for many months i read 'OhH MY HEAD' (headache caused by ants...) So much for the fun part :-) 834 From: "mc71de" Date: Tue Oct 22, 2002 9:03am Subject: Re: Monitor Source; was:Odyssey programming info mc71de Hello, [Adam wants to type in the Elektor monitor listing] say, Adam, you are not really typing in all those menmonics (the actual assembler stuff), are you? If you are using the disassembler as you did with Crazy Gobbler, may i help yuo with converting syntax into what the assembler wants? Then we can add comments as we need them or as time permits... Hello? Adam? Please talk to me... Or are you sitting there, typing in that listing, and won't post anything until you are ready? Please... By the way, you recently wondered about the very limited display of the 'elektor monitor'. I just found two other Elektor computers: The SC/MP (a micro that does not even have subroutines) and the 'Junior' computer, a 6502 design similar to the KIM. Both of these have nice 7segment LED displays, much the same as the elektor monitor display. So in comparison, the 'TV computer' was not limited, but instead it added a TV Game Display. But indeed, if we ever shall have an 'Arcadia monitor', we should give it a display like what you described. My idea was just to have a starting point by converting the 'Text output' routine first. May'be it would be something like not re-inventing the Wheel at once, but piece-by-piece instead... (Or are you as addicted to ant attack at the moment as i was in, ummm, 1987? Homework indeed had to wait... ) -mc 835 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 1:52am Subject: Re: Monitor Source; was:Odyssey programming info atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> [Adam wants to type in the Elektor monitor listing] say, Adam, you are not really typing in all those menmonics (the actual assembler stuff), are you? >> Yes, I'm typing in the mnemonics. I ran the 2K binary file through Dasmx (the disassmbler that can work with 2650 code) hoping that I wouldn't have to type in so much, but it only understood 14% of the file as actual code, the rest it was marked as Define Byte (which is NOT what it is). >> If you are using the disassembler as you did with Crazy Gobbler, may i help yuo with converting syntax into what the assembler wants? >> I thought that I might look through the docs of dasmx and see how I could force it to disassemble certain bits of the code, but then I took a look at the code and decided it would just be easier to type it in (plus it will allow me to get comfortable with what is going in). >> Then we can add comments as we need them or as time permits... >> I'm typing them as I go: I might as well, since I'm not using the disassembler. I've not typed too much yet (just two pages-), but if you think we should give the dasmx another shot, just say so. >> Hello? Adam? Please talk to me... Or are you sitting there, typing in that listing, and won't post anything until you are ready? Please... >> No. Actually I locked my keys in my car yesterday. I had a doctor appointment in the afternoon and thought I would stop at a thrift store along the way. Well, that's where I made the mistake of closing the door and leaving the keys in the ignition. Well, let me just say that that tiny mistake added hours and hours to my day and when I got home in the evening I didn't want to turn my computer on. I read some more of THE RESTAURANT AT THE END OF THE UNIVERSE and then watched another episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation (the fourth season). I went to bed early. More than anyone needed to know, I'm sure. At least now everyone knows how at least one person on this group spends his "off" hours. >> By the way, you recently wondered about the very limited display of the 'elektor monitor'. [...] Both of these have nice 7segment LED displays, much the same as the elektor monitor display. So in comparison, the 'TV computer' was not limited, but instead it added a TV Game Display. >> The other day I was talking to my friend and I ended up describing to her how binary worked because I had mentioned that some of the first home computers only had toggle switches (I was thinking of the Altair). She just didn't understand how that could be possible: so I explained it to her. When I was done... she still didn't understand. I think I left her in worse condition than she started out in. All she's done since then is sit in a corner muttering to herself over and over, "Two's complement. Only add .Eight digits." I'm getting worried about her. >> But indeed, if we ever shall have an 'Arcadia monitor', we should give it a display like what you described. >> That's a vote of confidence. Anyone else second that vote? Anyone else even reading this thread? >> May'be it would be something like not re-inventing the Wheel at once, but piece-by-piece instead... >> I am not capable of rewriting all that code for the Arcadia. Besides, there is no RAM in the Arcadia to write a program in. I think its in me to write what I described in an earlier posting. Writing the monitor "piece-by-piece" is certainly the way to go. Maybe I should clarify why I'm retyping the source for the home-built computer's monitor (BIOS?). Retyping the code will get me intimate with 2650 mnemonics, assembly code, and it will get me in tune with the VACS cross-assembler. So, basically I'm doing this for selfish reasons. If the group can benefit from my work, then all the better (and I hope that the group CAN benefit). >> (Or are you as addicted to ant attack at the moment as i was in, ummm, 1987? Homework indeed had to wait... ) >> Nope, not addicted to Ant Attack. The keyboard control almost killed me. The only game that used keyboard control that I liked was the Doom series. I have been playing a game though. I finally beat Pitfall II (again) with my eight-year old son on the Atari 800XL. I had to leave my computer on for six straight days. There is one part in that game (on the second level, after you get Quickclaw) that is very difficult. You're character needs to jump four screens of ledges to get a rope, while making sure that the condor doesn't kill poor, little Pitfall Harry. Anyway, that game is out of my system now. for a long time. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 836 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 3:07am Subject: Using the Arcadia and Thanks PeT atrionfo Using your Arcadia and Thanks PeT I moved in August and I still have not made regular use of my Arcadia 2001. I have used it just once. I brought it to a friend's place to show him the multicart. He is a classic game collector too and he liked the machine (he had never used it before). I'd say we went through about 50% of the games on the multicart. This is not to say that I don't use the Arcadia. Though the MESS emulator isn't perfect, it suits me well, so I use the emulator instead of hooking up the actual hardware. Just thought I'd tip my hat to PeT and say thank you. Adam 837 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Oct 23, 2002 8:53pm Subject: Re: Group members - Who reads what? stefanpiasecki Hi Adam, thanks for the offer to explain ML-related things, but that's okay. I understand what you are saying, I just lost track on coding several years ago since I concentrated on design and production. Stefan 838 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 4:17am Subject: German to English Translation atrionfo I used the Yahoo Babelfish translator (http://babel.altavista.com/) to translate a couple of paragraphs from TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER. How about those letting me know how close this is (Stephan?). I have no plans to use the translator translate anymore text, but I was just curious as to how close of a translation I would get, and it is positively readable and understandable. >> Chapter 15 Some Useful Routines The light way, programs too develop! If they tried already to prepare their own program and if they lift thereby after the first test run determined that in the program a few important instructions it are missing there somewhere in the middle, then are you in good society. A somewhat laborious solution, is it, to enter the corrected program again. The simpler way is to use a Block-Transfer-Routine as it is described in this chapter. >> From page 141 of the book- this is about right? How far off is it? It makes sense to me just fine, but I know it can't be 100% right (as it isn't grammatically correct, nor is it using all the right words. For instance: shouldn't "society" be "company" and what does the caption "The light way, programs too develop!," I figured it means "The easy way to develop program!" I don't know a word of German though. >> If the program in address 08C0 is started, then all instructions with the highest address are raised first byte for byte around 3 address positions. The computer settles this task so fast that the television picture flickers at best briefly. >> From page 142 of the book (right below the program). Pretty neat. More than that actually- computers amaze me, I suppose that they always will. Now I'm REALLY looking forward to an English version of this book (yea, like I wasn't before?). Adam 839 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 5:26am Subject: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? atrionfo Another Sorta-Translated Paragraph I typed in another paragraph from the book into BabelFish; this on is from page 239 of the book. I was intrigued because the paragraph has the word "Philips." What does the work "Gloeilampenfabrieken" mean (it's not translated)? How good is the translation that is below the German text (seems alright to me- BabelFish is rather good)? It looks as though there was a real ROM (rather than an EPROM) for the home-built computer. Interesting. Anyone know the circulation of this home-built computer? Finally, why does Phillips own the rights to the ROM anyway? What did they have to do with creating the computer? I've heard their name mixed-up with the Interton/Arcadia before, but what's this all about? Someone should write a letter to Phillips (I'm joking) and ask for permission to put this ROM into the public domain. They would be like, "What- what the hell is this guy talking about?" Even if they were the same company as back in those days, the copyright for this ROM would be lost in paperwork; but that doesn't matter because Phillips has been sold at LEAST once since the book was published. >> Beachten sie, da  das auf den folgenden Seiten abgedruckte Listing des Monitor-Programmes ausschlie lich als Information f?r TV-Spielcomputer-Besitzer angegeben ist. Es wurde hier abgedruckt mit Genehmigung der NV Philips Gloeilampenfabrieken (NL). Der Inhalt darf weder ganz noch teilweise kopiert noch in irgendeiner Form Ver"ffentlicht werden ohne deren schriftliche Genehmigung. Das Monitor-Programm ist in Form eines ROM ?ber die normalen Einzelhandels-Verkaufswege erh,ltlich. Zum Zeitpunkt der Drucklegung ist keine dritte Partei berechtigt, dieses Programm auf EPROM zu kopieren und in den Handel zu Bringen. >> Note they that the listing of the monitor program printed on the following pages is indicated exclusively as information for TV play computer owners. It here printed with permission of the NV Philips Gloeilampenfabrieken (NL). Contents may be published neither completely nor partly copied still in any form without their written permission. The monitor program is available in form of a ROM over the normal retail trade sales ways. At the time of printing no third party is justified to copy this program on EPROM and into the trade to bringing. Anyway- sort of neat paragraph, isn't it (I thought this home-built system was homebrew, and therefore everything about it was public domain-- oops, that's what I get for assuming...). Comments? Adam 840 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 6:40am Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? mc71de Hello Adam, let me bring some light into the dark ;-) 'Philips gloeilampenfabrieken' means 'P. light bulb fabrications, The Netherlands'. That company was founded by a Mr. Philips as producer of 'glowing lamps', as german and netherlandish call these things. They were successful and expanded into electronics. And invented the 'compact cassette'. By 1979, Philips had bought Valvo (sooner or later you will come across this name; it was a german valve (radio tube) producer, and P.'s semiconductor department later) and Signetics (who had developed the 2650). That Elektor machine is indeed nothing else as Philips' example application of a video game system using their 2650 and 2636. Of course, they had to offer something to demonstrate their machine to potential buyers (companies like Interton, Radofin, and others). So they wrote that monitor program, providing a means to program the machine. Copyright at the mother company, Philips gloeilampenfabrieken, NL. Published in the book for educational purposes only (look at the code and learn how it works), but not to allow anyone to put the program on Eproms and sell them. It was just a ROM as the game cart roms were. So far, so good. CBM MOS did quite the same with their 6560 VIC. Publish the data sheet; noone wants to buy VIC; make a reference design (VIC 20) and sell it. The rest is history... (and even cbm had some secrets in their dungeons that are even more dubious as that Philips/ Signetics/ Interton/ Emerson/ UA zoo). [How come this is the second time i write this today?] So, to sum it up: the Elektor book is nothing else than an extended version of a 2650/2636 data sheet. Doh. Nothing really exciting. But: Why did the producers (Interton, Radofin, the company that sold games on tape...) exchange licenses of the games? Most likely, Philips was involved here too. And maybe, just maybe UA LTD. is nothing else than a Philips' spin-off of this 'intellectual property exchange' department... And: P. was also the owner of Magnavox, who produced the Odyssey2. And P. NL developed many O2 games for the european market, so they had concurrence in the own house... why did they develop the 2637 side-by-side with the O3? Why not concentrate on one product? Questions over questions... --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: [lots snipped, answers above] > Finally, why does Phillips own the rights to the > ROM anyway? They wrote it. > What did they have to do with creating the computer? They invented it. > I've heard their name mixed-up with the > Interton/Arcadia before, but what's this all about? 'Digital Archaeology According to Ward', Chapter one. (read: pure weirdness. especially when it comes to game roms. And: why did Interton use 'disguised' chips? (those 42x numbers instead the 26.. series) > Someone should write a letter to Phillips (I'm joking) > and ask for permission to put this ROM into the public > domain. Why not? Stefan is already in touch with Elektor; maybe we will get to Philips... > They would be like, "What- what the hell is > this guy talking about?" Maybe not... Philips semiconductors have a nice developers' forum. Maybe we should just go there and ask for a 2637 datasheet. > Even if they were the same company as back in those > days, the copyright for this ROM would be lost in paperwork; If it is lost, no problem. But if they manage to dig it out... ;-) > but that doesn't matter because Phillips has been > sold at LEAST once since the book was published. Ooops? Didn't realize that. But maybe these turn-overs were less of a mess than the split-up of commodore... :-) [reasonable quality translation of german text] > > Anyway- sort of neat paragraph, isn't it (I thought > this home-built system was homebrew, and therefore > everything about it was public domain-- oops, > that's what I get for assuming...). Comments? > > Adam Well, not really. It was 'home-*built*' and could be programmed by everyone at home. But still the 'monitor' was a commercial product, as the monitor of the KIM, the Apple roms, CBM basic... When you wrote a program, you could of course do with it what you wanted. Share it with your friends, put it into the public domain... or sell it off to Interton, as Mr. Bieling did... Look here for Philips' history: Should i post a picture of a Philips light bulb into the files section? asks -mc 841 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:43am Subject: Table of Contents in English! atrionfo I translated the table of contents of the home-built computer book using Yahoo's BabelFish: I curious what I was getting myself into looking so hard for the English version of the book. The translation is a little choppy, but it gets the point across- now I know for certain the book will be of excellent use for programming the 2650 (as was mentioned her already). Building the computer is beyond me (What do ya mean I can't hold a soldering iron like a pen!), but it looks like I will be able to use the sections called Practical Programming and the Appendix right away. I wonder how many of the games written for this machine make use of the routines in the ROM (i.e. the ML monitor- right?). Check how the English translation of the table of contents, and see if it doesn't whet your appetite. Adam Title: TV PLAY COMPUTER: PLAYS WITH THE MICROPROCESSOR CONTENTS STRUCTURE AND ENTRANCE Chapter 1: the A P as play partners A Small Overview of Which and How. Chapter 2: The building of the TV play computer Block Diagrams, Circuits and Plates Chapter 3: The dialogue with the system The Key Field and the Fundamentals of the Operation Chapter 4: Software on cartridge 15 programs - Mastermind, Four in a Row, Lotto and much more besides THE TV PLAY COMPUTER UNDER THE MAGNIFYING GLASS Chapter 5: Exact view of the hardware Which Circuit Unit has which Function Chapter 6: A More Exact View of the Software Of Monitor Programs, the PVI and the Microprocessor PRACTICAL PROGRAMMING Chapter 7: Of Bits, Byte, Lines and Clocks Some fundamental things. Chapter 8: The Most Important Instructions Branch Instructions (Bypasses) and Data Transfer Chapter 9: Programming Tip How Does One Begin? Chapter 10: The Remaining Instructions Arithmetic One Instructs, Logical Operations and Few Cheats Chapter 11: Monitor Routines Keyboard-Inquiry and Text-Display-Routine Chapter 12: The Use of Interrupts Meaningfully, but not Simply in Handling Chapter 13: Joysticks Calibration Routine Chapter 14: Random Numbers A Subroutine and a Circuit Chapter 15: Some Useful Routines The Light Way to Develop Programs Chapter 16: The Monitor Program on the Second View Different Useful Routines Chapter 17: An Improved Text Routine The Complete Alphabet and more THE LUXURY VERSION Chapter 18: TV Play Computer - Luxury Version + 3k Memory, + Sound Effects Chapter 19: Programmable Sound Generators Organ, Explosion, "LOCK and Admiration Whistle" FINAL CONSIDERATION Chapter 20: Programs Write ...also by others to be used can Chapter 21: EPROM Programming Module Plug-In 2716 Easily Program APPENDIX Appendix A: Fundamental on a View PVI Overview, PSG Overview, 2650 Command Sentence Appendix B: Useful Routines Keyboard-Inquiry Routine, Text routine, Interrupt Routine, Control-Stick Calibration Routine, Coincidence Routine Appendix C: The monitor program Short Overview and Complete Listing with Comments 842 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:22am Subject: Re: Interton Motocross creation mc71de Hi Adam, and everyone else, if there are still any people listening to us ;-) I just realized that i forgot to explain something... --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > mc71de wrote: > >> > If they did not overhaul the [PCB] layout from the article > published in the mag, you will find markings 'int' and 'rad'. > Interton? Radofin? > >> > > It's still there in the book. > Interesting theory, I wonder how you could > ever find proof for that one? > Look at page 186. There are the two connectors, labeled with the pins' names. At the bottom, below the pinouts, there are two drawings that show a game cassette housing, the pcb inside, and the label at the front. Translate the test as follows: 'Ansicht von oben'-> 'top view' 'Einreihiger Stecksocker f?r'-> 'single row connector for' 'Zweireihiger Stecksocker f?r'-> 'double row connector for' 'Interton'-> [left as an exercise for the interested reader] 'Spiel-Kassetten'-> 'game carts' 'Aufkleber'-> 'sticker, label' 'Kupferkontakte'-> 'copper contact pads' (the contact 'fingers' on the cart pcb) And now for the hard part- the text on page 180pp., labeled 'Die ROM- Kassetten' ('the ROM cartridges'). It talks about Interton and Radofin Carts, that both companies have a game machine with 2650/2636, and how to distinguish between 'good' carts and carts for incompatible systems (Interton had a machine with analog circuitry on the carts, like the missing link between an Odyssey and those Pong-On-a-Chip machines; didn't Radofin have a machine with those 'Pong-Chip-on-a-Cart' machines?). Anyway, right at the beginning of the 'ROM Cassettes' paragraph they say that compatibility is not guaranteed, but most currently (1982) available carts would work. Now, how does it work? That's easy: the add-on board adds a switch to the system that can switch off the monitor rom and the ram area, and switch in the cartridge instead. The Interton had an additional audio circuitry, which is not present of course. But that is not really a big loss... Enjoy! -mc 843 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 9:01am Subject: Re: Table of Contents in English! mc71de Hi, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I translated the table of contents of the home-built computer book using > Yahoo's BabelFish: I curious what I was getting myself into looking so hard > for the English version of the book. The translation is a little choppy, > but it gets the point across- now I know for certain the book will be of > excellent use for programming the 2650 (as was mentioned her already). That fishy thing is amazingly good!!! > > Building the computer is beyond me (What do ya mean I can't hold a soldering > iron like a pen!), Well... you can hold it this way, bu't you don't want to plug it in then... or you wear some asbestos gloves :-) But indeed etching the board will be quite hard. > but it looks like I will be able to use the sections > called Practical Programming and the Appendix right away. I wonder how many > of the games written for this machine make use of the routines in the ROM > (i.e. the ML monitor- right?). Exactly! But the 'professional' programs will probably not use much of it... > > Check how the English translation of the table of contents, and see if it > doesn't whet your appetite. > > Adam > I will correct the worst or misleading errors. I'm not especially good at english style either... > > Title: TV PLAY COMPUTER: PLAYS WITH THE MICROPROCESSOR > > CONTENTS > > STRUCTURE AND ENTRANCE > > Chapter 1: the A P as play partners > A Small Overview of Which and How. ... the ‘P [microprocessor] ... > > Chapter 2: The building of the TV play computer > Block Diagrams, Circuits and Plates ... game computer ... and [circuit] boards > > Chapter 3: The dialogue with the system > The Key Field and the Fundamentals of > the Operation The keyboard [functions] [how to use the monitor] > > Chapter 4: Software on cartridge > 15 programs - Mastermind, Four in a Row, > Lotto and much more besides ... on [tape] cassette > > THE TV PLAY COMPUTER UNDER THE MAGNIFYING GLASS > > Chapter 5: Exact view of the hardware > Which Circuit Unit has which Function > > Chapter 6: A More Exact View of the Software > Of Monitor Programs, the PVI and > the Microprocessor > > PRACTICAL PROGRAMMING > > Chapter 7: Of Bits, Byte, Lines and Clocks > Some fundamental things. [yes, they really mean tv lines and clock cycles!] > > Chapter 8: The Most Important Instructions > Branch Instructions (Bypasses) and Data Transfer Branch instructions (branches)... [they wanted to translate '*branch' into german; do we have a translation of 'branch' into english?] > > Chapter 9: Programming Tip > How Does One Begin? > > Chapter 10: The Remaining Instructions > Arithmetic One Instructs, Logical Operations > and Few Cheats Arithmetical instructions, logical operations and a few tricks > > Chapter 11: Monitor Routines > Keyboard-Inquiry and Text-Display-Routine scanning the keyboard, and... > > Chapter 12: The Use of Interrupts > Meaningfully, but not Simply in Handling [Woo-Ha! Maybe 'useful' or 'important'...] > > Chapter 13: Joysticks > Calibration Routine [you wanted something like that some days ago...] > > Chapter 14: Random Numbers > A Subroutine and a Circuit > > Chapter 15: Some Useful Routines > The Light Way to Develop Programs The easy way... > > Chapter 16: The Monitor Program on the Second View > Different Useful Routines > > Chapter 17: An Improved Text Routine > The Complete Alphabet and more > > THE LUXURY VERSION > > Chapter 18: TV Play Computer - Luxury Version > + 3k Memory, + Sound Effects > > Chapter 19: Programmable Sound Generators > Organ, Explosion, "LOCK and Admiration Whistle" [Argh. You don't want to lock something; you want to call something (or better -body) to come and stay with you: 'come heeeere, little computer, coooome, pretty pleeeease...'. it's a term of the sound chip datasheet...] > > FINAL CONSIDERATION > > Chapter 20: Programs Write > ...also by others to be used can [Ouch! they could as well have the words ordered according to the alphabet...] Chapter 20: Writing programs ... in a way that others can use them > > Chapter 21: EPROM Programming Module Plug-In > 2716 Easily Program ... EPROM programming plug-in module 2716 programming made easy [yes, they made the machine into a prom programmer...] > > APPENDIX > > Appendix A: Fundamental on a View > PVI Overview, PSG Overview, 2650 Command Sentence ... 2650 instruction set [Ouch! 'Satz' as 'set', not 'sentence'...] > > Appendix B: Useful Routines > Keyboard-Inquiry Routine, Text routine, Interrupt > Routine, Control-Stick Calibration Routine, > Coincidence Routine Keyboard scanning routine,...., random number generator > > Appendix C: The monitor program > Short Overview and Complete Listing with Comments HTH, -mc (i REALLY want to know how near i come to the english book...) 844 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 1:34pm Subject: Re: Interton Motocross creation atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> Hi Adam, and everyone else, if there are still any people listening to us ;-) >> Well, I'm still listening (though, I'm one of the "us"). Ward will eventually be in here catching up on messages too (Hi Ward!). >> I just realized that i forgot to explain something... [... lots snipped] Translate the test as follows: 'Ansicht von oben'-> 'top view' 'Einreihiger Stecksocker f?r'-> 'single row connector for' 'Zweireihiger Stecksocker f?r'-> 'double row connector for' 'Interton'-> [left as an exercise for the interested reader] >> I'm an interested reader, and thus (not knowing ANY German at all): 'f?r Interton usw.' = 'for interclay/tone etc.' I suppose that's a translator mistake and it should read, "for Interton etc." Then there is: 'f?r Radofin 1292, Acetronic, Prinztronic usw.' = 'for Radofin 1292, Acetronic, Prinztronic etc.' >> And now for the hard part- the text on page 180pp., labeled 'Die ROM- Kassetten' ('the ROM cartridges'). It talks about Interton and Radofin Carts, that both companies have a game machine with 2650/2636, and how to distinguish between 'good' carts and carts for incompatible systems. [...] right at the beginning of the 'ROM Cassettes' paragraph they say that compatibility is not guaranteed, but most currently (1982) available carts would work. Now, how does it work? That's easy: the add-on board adds a switch to the system that can switch off the monitor rom and the ram area, and switch in the cartridge instead. The Interton had an additional audio circuitry, which is not present of course. But that is not really a big loss... >> Yikes, I'm in way over my head here with all these non-U.S. systems. I'm shivering in my boots. Not only don't I have the Interton 4000, I don't have any of these other systems. Since they are are related to the Arcadia in some fashion (either as a direct or indrect precursor), I am interested to learn this material, but I'm not sure how much use that I (personally, just me, not speaking for anyone else) can get out of it. All the system mentioned seem to be programmed in the same way- they just have little bits of hardware that make them incompatible (not counting the extra RAM). Does the Interton have sound (if so, is it the same as the sound in the home-built computer?)? How the heck do you know all this STUFF? Adam 845 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 2:09pm Subject: Interton Word Processor atrionfo No, I'm not suggesting that we write a word processor for the Interton or the Arcadia. I'm not suggesting that anyone ever did this. I just look at the way that the Interton uses the ML Monitor and it reminds me so much of the Astrocade: little buttons typing with big fingers. The Astrocade (with expanded memory) actually does have a word processor written for it- and I know one person that still uses it to write articles about the Astrocade (I can't believe his machine has not melted yet from overheating chips). I beg him to use a PC and write his articles in ASCII format (at least), but he still writes them on his power-user Astrocade and then prints the article(s) on his 9-pin printer. When I receive them, I scan them in and post them to the Astrocade discussion group- as an image. Now just imagine, for one second, that you are using a word processor that doesn't have a full-size keyboard (and I'm not talking about the dinky early I-Mac keyboards). Let's say you want to write a letter to your mom- wouldn't it just be easier to take out the old pen and pad? I'm not going to mourn the lack of a word processor for the Interton or Arcadia systems (though maybe the poor KIM users got ripped-off; they could have really used one-- LED system display and all). You have just read a posting that lives up to the motto "but having fun is definitely approved." Do I win a medal for most worthless, yet on topic, posting, or can someone do better? (this posting is related to topic. isn't it?). Adam 846 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 3:28pm Subject: Re: Interton Motocross creation mc71de Hello everyone interested in 'PVI Machines' --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Ward will eventually be in here catching up on > messages too (Hi Ward!). Hi Ward! We give you a hard time to catch up, do we? > > I'm an interested reader, and thus (not knowing ANY German at all): > 'f?r Interton usw.' = 'for interclay/tone etc.' > I suppose that's a translator mistake and it should read, "for Interton Indeed. 'Ton' as in 'tone, sound', not 'clay, ceramic'. Remember: Interton was (and is still) a produvcer of hearing aids! You are not really supposed to translate it... > etc." Then there is: > 'f?r Radofin 1292, Acetronic, Prinztronic usw.' = > 'for Radofin 1292, Acetronic, Prinztronic etc.' Good. You earn 100 points on your way to DigiArch exam. > Yikes, I'm in way over my head here with all these > non-U.S. systems. I'm shivering in my boots. Not > only don't I have the Interton 4000, I don't have any > of these other systems. MEE TOO. Well, i own two VC400, but all those other systems are strangers to me, too. > Since they are are related to the Arcadia > in some fashion (either as a direct or indrect > precursor), I am interested to learn this material, > but I'm not sure how much use that I (personally, > just me, not speaking for anyone else) can get out of it. Well, if we make a 'big separation' into PVI2636 machines (Interton, Radofin, Elektor, and many more) and UVI2637 machines (Arcadia, Schmid, Palladium, etc.), we can say the following: -both families have a 2650 processor. -keypad, joystick, sound are next-to-identical all over the both families; marginal differences occur between 2636 and 2637 machines (different register addresses?) -'commercial' 2636 machines have a little 'extra sound'. This is known for Interton VC4000, but probably the other machines have it too. This sound add-on also originates at Philips, it is described in the 'TOPP DIY TV game' book mentioned by Chris Windler, and it consists of a noise generator, and some tone generators i have not yet dug into. -the 'Elektor' system had an expansion card with two sound chips that were used in consoles/ computers from the intellivision trough to the Atari ST. This expansion seems to be unique to the Elektor machine; most likely it is an 'invention' of the elektor engineers. -2636PVI and 2637UVI systems have next-to-nothing in common at graphics output. Completely different thing... > All the system mentioned seem to be programmed > in the same way- they just have little bits > of hardware that make them incompatible (not > counting the extra RAM). I tried to list the common/ similar/ different things above. If you build a system around one of these chips, you will have a hard time to come up with something completely different. You could move around the UVI/PVI registers across the memory map, or mess with the keypad scanning circuitry, but that's about all you could do to make a 'unique' system. Of course you can add things (tape io, RAM, extra sound stuff). But the basic operation remains the same. > Does the Interton have sound (if so, is it the same > as the sound in the home-built computer?)? Yes, and 'yes-and-no'. PVI sound is the same, and the same as in the Arcadia. Interton VC400 only adds a small board (in early machines, you can indeed unplug it from the main board!) with some extra sound effects. But if you use a VC4000 without the extra sound board, you won't loose much. > > How the heck do you know all this STUFF? > Hey! I'm the hardware kind of person, and i own the TOPP book describing that second diy system since ~15 years now! The rest is browsing the net for only a year now. Much info i found at a guy named Shrake, or something like that... (and i got my first Interton machine at Feb. 3rd, 2002.; and my Saba/Channel-F at Feb. 15th, 2002) That's about all... -mc 847 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 3:56pm Subject: Re: Interton Word Processor mc71de Hi! --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > No, I'm not suggesting that we write a word processor > for the Interton or the Arcadia. Ooooh, why not *sniff*? But maybe a tiny BASIC were cool! Who wants to give Jamie Fenton a call? > I'm not suggesting that anyone ever did this. Well... they did that 'Video-Dictionary'. Seems to be the closest thing to a word processor... (And it's much more useful than 'Keyboard Creations!' on O2...) [snip] > I'm not going to mourn the lack of a word processor > for the Interton or Arcadia systems (though maybe the > poor KIM users got ripped-off; they could > have really used one-- LED system display and all). > > You have just read a posting that lives up to the > motto "but having fun is definitely approved." Do > I win a medal for most worthless, yet on topic, > posting, or can someone do better? (this posting > is related to topic. isn't it?). > > Adam > Sorry Adam, i can't give you the 'Wildstar- Lookalike- Medal' for that ;-) There is much too much sense in what you said. Of coursr no one will make the Arcadia an E-mail terminal in 2002, but back in the days, many people would have liked the idea. I mean, you forked out lots of money; the Elektor kit was around us$350! Bare system, no single game, and you had to spend hours to solder everything together... So, if you wanted a word processor, you would have liked the idea to beef up your 'TV Game' instead of spending another $500 or more for a 'real' computer. But soon computers would drop in price... and that was it for the home-built systems. And of course, when you want to win the wildstar contest. You have to write sentences. totally ripped apart. Like this. And babble LOADS of mere nonsense. Sorry, no medal ;-) -mc p.s.: If anyone asks who this 'wildstar' is: He almost destroyed the CommodoreOne Y!Group by littering it witl lengthy, illegible postings of no real content. He either gives an in-depth explanation of the most simple things, or has absolutely no clue what's going on, but yet writes even more garbage. We tried to talk to him nicely, we shouted at him, but nothing would help. He even has not really realized that the new moderator of the list has shown him the 'yellow card'. Hopefully he will recognize if we should be forced to ban him off, but i doubt that... 848 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:39pm Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? stefanpiasecki Haha, "Gloeilampenfabrieken" is Dutch and means "light bulb factory" - fancy, isn't it? What they had to do with it is the following: they developed the chips and Philips had a vital interest in getting them sold, so they put such a book for public means together. Stefan 849 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:42pm Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? stefanpiasecki Oops, should have read this posting prior to writing mine. This one is much better. Sorry, but I always start on top of the unread messages and reply immediately. Sometimes I should rather read them all. But at least I didn't say anything contrary...... SP 850 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 7:48pm Subject: Re: Interton Word Processor stefanpiasecki Wow, this Astrocade-poweruser is surely a person I'd love to meet. However, the compatible Palladium system and its dictionary cart give you a feel of how it would have been like to write texts on Arcadia systems. The keys spread over both controllers and after some tries you get used to it pretty fast. So I believe that back in the days it was just sorta funky to write texts with modern hardware instead of pen and paper. And as far as the instructions manual goes for the Palladium even more of these tools were planned (some sort of home- calculations etc.). People's demands grow with what they have. If they have little, the start with little and then want more. This is where next gen systems like the C64 took over. Stefan 851 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 8:33pm Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? mc71de Hallo Stefan, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Haha, "Gloeilampenfabrieken" is Dutch OUCH!!! Of course... dutch... not 'netherlandish'... has anybody seen my word translate book? Stefan, i *need* that Video- Lexikon... ;-) > and means "light bulb factory" - fancy, isn't it? > What they had to do with it is the following: they > developed the chips and Philips had a vital interest > in getting them sold, so they put such a book for > public means together. > Stefan Take a look at Philips' website. They have a nice 'history' page... And never mind! Your text definitely was shorter than mine :-) But what about this: When Elektor published Philips' data sheet, errr, the TV Computer articles in april '79, the Interton (and radofin?) system was already in production... your argument seems not to hit the head of the nail... maybe it's just that Philips didn't make a secret of their stuff? Curious... -mc 852 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 24, 2002 11:56pm Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? stefanpiasecki Yes, what I didn't think of when I wrote my posting was that the book was baseed on articles that were published 2 years earlier. This is of course even more interesting because it shows the common roots at the time when the 2600 was really strong in the US and just starting in Europe. So the basics of the Arcadia (if you want to call the Interton a predecessor) were developed head to head with the Atari and it wasn't just a quick shot to make quick cash. So obviously the powers at Philips were aiming at something to be a strong competition to the 2600, just that they didn't take enough money up to put into the development of games. I bet that if we have a close look at those Elektor tapes we could find earlier versions of quite some games. I mean early Arcadia games like Ocean Battle, Bowling etc. scream "just trying" as they look so "Radofini-2ndGen-ish" (the early Pong systems being the 1st Gen, (early) Atari, (Early) Intellivision and Interton being the 2nd gen consoles and Arcadia (yes), Coleco etc. being 3rd Gen). By the way, did you all know that the Schmid TVG 2000 was marketed in Germany as "the 3rd generation games console"? The longer I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. Stefan (being a fan of "Netherlandish and Netherlandians in general, haha) 853 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:18am Subject: Re: Interton Motocross creation atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> MEE TOO. Well, i own two VC400, but all those other systems are strangers to me, too. >> I'm surprised to hear that. Then again, with the system being so similar, why would you even need to own more than one system that is compatible (or compatible with an adapter) unless you were collecting for hardcore reasons- that is, just to get'em all. >> Well, if we make a 'big separation' into PVI2636 machines (Interton, Radofin, Elektor, and many more) and UVI2637 machines (Arcadia, Schmid, Palladium, etc.), we can say the following: -both families have a 2650 processor. >> I asked this question earlier and didn't get an answer to my satisfaction (especially now that the book TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER might be a beefed up version of the datasheet). If the 2650 was meant for engineers and industrial application, then why would Philips be involved with writing a book for a games computer? It could be that Philips did both and then changed their minds once games started to become popular. The 2650 never had a backwards compatible chip, or a later chip that could go into a sort of 2650-mode, right? So, from that angle, once the 2650 lost its horsepower, there was no upgrade path for system designers, other than starting from scratch. Is this a fair approximation of the VC-4000 (and compatibles) and the Arcadia (and compatibles), all using the 2650? >> -keypad, joystick, sound are next-to-identical all over the both families; marginal differences occur between 2636 and 2637 machines (different register addresses?) >> If we dig into this, we can figure it out (especially if we have a simple monitor running on both the Interton and the Arcadia). Could it be as simple as just a few different register addresses though? >> -'commercial' 2636 machines have a little 'extra sound'. [SNIP] >> I wonder why this wasn't carried over into the Arcadia compatible systems. Could it be possible that the Arcadia was on the drawing board before this sound board was created and this it couldn't be incorporated? This one's a long shot, but everything I've learned about this system seem to be long shots. >> -2636PVI and 2637UVI systems have next-to-nothing in common at graphics output. Completely different thing... >> PeT said this earlier, and the diagrams in the book reflect this too. Waiting on the English book... >> >Does the Interton have sound (if so, is it the same >as the sound in the home-built computer?)? Yes, and 'yes-and-no'. PVI sound is the same, and the same as in the Arcadia. Interton VC400 only adds a small board (in early machines, you can indeed unplug it from the main board!) with some extra sound effects. But if you use a VC4000 without the extra sound board, you won't loose much. >> So the sound was not improved from the 2636 to the 2637- just the graphics. That's interesting. I would figure they would improve both. >> (and i got my first Interton machine at Feb. 3rd, 2002.; and my Saba/Channel-F at Feb. 15th, 2002) >> You keep good notes. I gauge everything by how old my son is. If I think my son was around two when I got a machine then I've had the machine for six years. It's a rather efficient system, don't you think? Adam 854 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:42am Subject: Re: Interton Word Processor atrionfo Re: Interton Word Processor mc71de wrote: >> But maybe a tiny BASIC [for the Arcadia] were cool! Who wants to give Jamie Fenton a call? >> Wait a minute, not Tiny BASIC- that's old. Why not "MS Visual BASIC for the Arcadia?" All we would have to do would be to add a mouse to the Arcadia, then some RAM, then a hard drive, an new processor, some PCI slots, and we're set (we'll sacrifice on the keyboard and still use the controllers to save money...). >> [...] they did that 'Video-Dictionary'. Seems to be the closest thing to a word processor... >> What was the vocabulary (how many word) of 'Video Dictionary?' Maybe that could be our built in spell checker? >> [...] Of coursr no one will make the Arcadia an E-mail terminal in 2002, but back in the days, many people would have liked the idea. >> I'm positive that if a long-lost word processor cart for the Arcadia became available on ebay, someone would buy it and the program would find its way to an image and then some on us would use it on the emulator just to see what it is like. Well, I know that I would. Suddenly I'd become suspicious about an unknown printer interface. >> I mean, you forked out lots of money; the Elektor kit was around us$350! Bare system, no single game, and you had to spend hours to solder everything together... So, if you wanted a word processor, you would have liked the idea to beef up your 'TV Game' instead of spending another $500 or more for a 'real' computer. >> Your statement is sound. There may even have been a guy at home who WAS working on a word processor for him home-built computer, with that exact reasoning in mind. I've read stories of people early computer engineers that built home-built computer in the early 1970's (people from Intel using the 4004 CPU) and there was nothing much to do with these machines, so they would build a mailing list of some group of people that they were involved with- a group of about twenty to thirty people. Now, you can't say that writing the addresses on the envelopes wouldn't have been easier, but those engineers found it fun to create a computer and then use it for SOMETHING. I suppose the same would be true of anyone who built the Elektor computer- there must have been some people that wanted it for more than just games. Maybe? >> But soon computers would drop in price... and that was it for the home-built systems. >> I bought my C64 (with my parents help) in 1983 (or 84) and that was just one (or two) year(s) after TV-SPIEL-COMPUTER was published. The same is true nowadays though, computers become "outdated" in just a couple of years. >> And of course, when you want to win the wildstar contest. You have to write sentences. totally ripped apart. Like this. And babble LOADS of mere nonsense. Sorry, no medal ;-) >> I. am unable. To. Do that. Sorry. That I. Can't help. You. >> [...]'wildstar' is [a person that] almost destroyed the CommodoreOne Y!Group by littering it witl lengthy, illegible postings of no real content. >> We've been extremely lucky here with this group. We've had no trash mail, no flame-wars, and everything said adds a little bit of explanation to what the heck was going on in the late seventies and early eighties with some rather unknown systems. Adam 855 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 1:50am Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> Oops, should have read this posting prior to writing mine. This one is much better. Sorry, but I always start on top of the unread messages and reply immediately. Sometimes I should rather read them all. But at least I didn't say anything contrary...... >> It's always okay to add a bit of knowledge, especially around this place where knowledge of what happened is thin. One added statement might be the key to it all. It also doesn't hurt that more than one person verifies an idea, a translation, or whatever the topic on hand is at the current time (or bringing up an older posting). It is always best to play catch-up before answering a posting, as you get a complete feel of what is going in with the group, however writing a reply to a posting before you read them all isn't unheard of- it happens all the time. In your case [Stephan] there is no reason to say "oops," as your small comment gave additional credit to a longer one. Am I making any sense here? Adam 856 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:12am Subject: Re: Interton Word Processor atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> Wow, this Astrocade-poweruser is surely a person I'd love to meet. >> Yes, he's a neat fellow. He knows about the Astrocade very well. He wrote quite a few articles in the last days of the Arcadian (an Astrocade newsletter). At a computer show last year in Ohio we hung out and he was burning me cartridges for the Astrocade using his Astrocade- which I thought was very cool. >> However, the compatible Palladium system and its dictionary cart give you a feel of how it would have been like to write texts on Arcadia systems. >> I suggest that someone send me this cart as a gift... so that I can get a proper feel (besides I need all the translators I can get). That's a joke- though I wouldn't stop anyone from taking this very action. >> The keys spread over both controllers and after some tries you get used to it pretty fast. >> I suppose that you might get used to it pretty fast (that's how it is on the Arcadia too), but being 'used' to the keypad layout doesn't mean you'll ever type fast on those controllers. >> So I believe that back in the days it was just sorta funky to write texts with modern hardware instead of pen and paper. >> Agreed 100%. Even some keyboards that had the keys in QWERTY style used membrane (like the Atari 400) or chicklet (like the Sinclair) keyboards. I bet the users of those days got used to those keyboards, but I bet that they would never go back. I have no problems typing fine on a C64 or Atari 800, but using the Astrocade is still not my style (unless I have my keyboard plugged into it...). >> And as far as the instructions manual goes for the Palladium even more of these tools were planned (some sort of home- calculations etc.). >> It WOULD be kind of neat to write a calculator for the Arcadia. Would it serve a purpose for users? No, why would anyone use it? It would be a neat programming exercise, though a tedious one. It would get the programmer quite familiar with the way that the Arcadia is setup (except for graphics). Some people pan the built-in calculator on the Astrocade, but I think it's a good inclusion for that time period (1978). Hey, even Windows has a built-in calculator (that I use quite frequently). >> People's demands grow with what they have. If they have little, the start with little and then want more. >> I only believe this partially. It could be that people only "want" more because it is advertised to them. But I won't drift off topic. >> This is where next gen systems like the C64 took over. >> The C64 was my first computer, and when I had it I only could compare it to my Atari 2600 and Colecovision. It was far superior to the VCS, and it seemed about the same as the Colecovision (this was when I only had type-in programs). Pretty soon though I realized that the C64 was my kinda computer. It played Pitfall II, and Zork and all these other fun games. At that time I had never even heard of the Arcadia. The first time I ever saw an Arcadia was at a pawn shop. I was looking for Atari stuff in about 1993 and this guy says something like, "I don't have that, but I have this," and he showed me an Arcadia 2001. I turned it down. Years later when I read that the system has 28K (yes, I was a true believer in those days), I kicked myself for passing it up. Adam 857 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:22am Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> But what about this: When Elektor published Philips' data sheet, errr, the TV Computer articles in april '79, the Interton (and radofin?) system was already in production... your [Stefan] argument seems not to hit the head of the nail... maybe it's just that Philips didn't make a secret of their stuff? Curious... >> The U.S. patent office regarding has the original information regarding Bally's 1978 patent number 4301503 (Home computer and game apparatus) for the Astrocade. If it were not for this paper, I'm told, the emulator could not have been written. The Astrocade patent is amazingly detailed (it's hundreds of pages of technical matter that I don't understand). What is the German equivalent of the patent office? Has anyone checked those archives for TV Game Computer or something like that? Adam 858 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:41am Subject: Re: Interton Word Processor mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Re: Interton Word Processor > > mc71de wrote: > >> > But maybe a tiny BASIC [for the Arcadia] were cool! Who wants > to give Jamie Fenton a call? > >> > > Wait a minute, not Tiny BASIC- that's old. Why not "MS Visual BASIC for the > Arcadia?" All we would have to do would be to add a mouse to the Arcadia, > then some RAM, then a hard drive, an new processor, some PCI slots, and > we're set (we'll sacrifice on the keyboard and still use the controllers to > save money...). Indeed, you come closer to Wildstar(Rick) ;-) btw the only person i nearly added to my newsreader's killfile. Sadly you cannot 'plonk' people easily ­n Y!Groups; I only want to know how long it will take until he is thrown out of the commodoreOne list. Today he explained what a memory map is- to a person who asked where he could find one! -mc 859 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:41am Subject: [OT]Odyssey programming info; was:Re: Arcadia Monitor program atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> So the basics of the Arcadia (if you want to call the Interton a predecessor) were developed head to head with the Atari and it wasn't just a quick shot to make quick cash. >> If everything, or even some of the ideas, that we have been discussing in these postings over the last few days holds true, then the above can not be true too. If Philips created, or helped to created, this TV Games Computer to help show how the 2650 and the 2636 could be used to create a computer, it was not to create competition with the 2600: it was to give other companies a reason to buy the chips that Philips manufactured. On the other hand, Atari used the 6502 CPU (a chip that they did not manufacture), Atari was creating a game machine so that they could sell games, Atari had no interest in selling chips (they could not have cared less): the VCS was designed to be as inexpensive as possible, while the TV Games Computer seems to be designed as a lesson (an expanded data sheet perhaps, suggests mc71de). It is definitely possible that these 2650/2636 game machines WERE designed to make quick cash. While Atari had engineers working to create the hardware, it seems that Philips, or at least Elektor, handed out how to create a games machine on a silver platter. I'm not saying that the game machines WERE created to make quick cash, but we can not rule that possibility out (especially since early posting on this group talk about how the machines looks like they were assembled by monkeys). We still have to wonder, as we always have: is there a book floating around that explains, in detail, how to create a 2650/2637 TV Games Machine? >> So obviously the powers at Philips were aiming at something to be a strong competition to the 2600, just that they didn't take enough money up to put into the development of games. >> Nor the development of a system. There is no Philips labeled system that I'm aware of, unless you count the Odyssey (and that uses Intel chips). Oh, it gets so confusing. >> I bet that if we have a close look at those Elektor tapes we could find earlier versions of quite some games. >> This is a safe bet. Why not reuse code when you can? Stefan, I like your thoughts-- keep them coming! Adam 860 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:44am Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? mc71de Hallo allemaal, [this was dutch; courtesy Ruud Baltissen] --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Am I making any sense here? > > Adam Yes. -mc ;-) 861 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:29am Subject: 2650 Editor - For Real! atrionfo I made a post yesterday about a word processor for the home-built 2650 CPU computer (or maybe even the Interton or Arcadia). It turns out that there was an editor created for a computer with a 2650 CPU. Here is a VERY short excerpt from the history of an editor called Ed: "Let's begin with a little history, starting around 1980. Did you know that ED started life written in Assembler for a Signetics 2650 CPU with 16K RAM? I'd be very surprised if you did! From there it moved to an 8080 with 64K RAM running CPM, still in Assembler of course." The editor is still currently made for Windows. Read the rest of the history, if interested (as it doesn't involve the 2650 at all), here: http://www.getsoft.com/future_plans.html Anyone want to contact this company and see if they can give any information about the computer that the first version of Ed was created for? Adam 862 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 9:56am Subject: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer atrionfo Signetics Instructor 50 I did a small amount of research into any computers that Signetics might have released. I came up with only this computer. I saw this before when I was looking for information on the 2637 this past spring. This computer is obviously a step above a kit computer- it comes pre-assembled (I think), and it only has an LED display (okay, the ML Monitor program for the home-built computer isn't looking so bad right about now). The following text is from the ICWhen website, located here (this text is in the history of computers for 1978): http://www.icwhen.com/book/the_1970s/1978.shtml "Signetics releases a small training computer designed around the Signetics 2650 Central Processing Unit (CPU) called the Instructor-50 desktop minicomputer. The shelf price is around $350. It features 2K Read Only Memory (ROM), 640K Random Access Memory (RAM), an 8-digit Light Emitting Diode (LED) display and parallel as well as cassette tape ports. The shelf price is $350. (A collector of old processors, Mr. Shane Smith, updated this information with an email sent to www.ICWhen.com on Monday, April 3, 2000. "...I have a couple of Signetics 2650 systems and I do not believe the Signetics Instructor-50 had 640K of RAM. As a matter of fact, having only 14 address lines, the 2650 was capable of addressing only 32K bytes. Of course, you can bank-select, but, actual addressable Random Access Memory (RAM) was limited to 32K bytes. Of interest, the stack is implemented on the CPU itself. Unfortunately, this provides a depth of only 7 subroutines before the stack wraps around. You could always fudge something by using one of the CPU registers to put in a crude stack.")" Well, I wonder how much RAM the computer really has? Maybe less then 1K, only 640bits? Doesn't this RAM mistake sound familiar- ever seen it around here before? Here is a picture of this computer on the discussion group (look for the file called signetic.jpg) here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Photos_and_scans/Miscellaneous/ The computer looks like it has the 2650 instruction set printed on the front for reference. The book is possibly the 2650 CPU User's Manual- I can't tell (which we have access to already). Adam 863 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:09am Subject: Re: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer atrionfo More Info on the SIGNETICS INSTRUCTOR 50 This information from: From http://www.digidome.nl/single_board_computers.htm "Production date of this interesting piece of computer history is September the 7th 1978. It is not, like f.i. the Heathkit training machines, intended to demonstrate the functioning of elements of a computer, but is in itself a complete computer. Purpose of the machine was to teach working in a hexadecimal environment. This means that users had to program in Machine Language or Mnemonics. Specifications: CPU: SIGNETICS 2650, 8-bit, N-channel (MOS) microprocessor at 1.25 Mhz. (max.). 640 bytes of RAM.(Adressing capability was 32 Kb.!). ROM: 2 Kb. 2656 System Memory Interface. Sixteen key hexadecimal keyboard. Twelve key function selection board. Eight digit, seven-segment LED display. Audio tape cassette interface. S100 compatible expansion bus. User System Executive (USE) monitor. Debugging aids. On board user Input/Output. Forced jump logic. 512 bytes on board user RAM (!). Crystal controlled system clock. 5 Volts PSU. Serial number: 1289. Shelf price in 1987 was $350. Signetics Corporation of Sunnyvale, California became in the mid seventies a subsidiary of US PHILIPS Corporation." Notice anything? None of these sites have yet given the correct amount of RAM- they have each said the computer has 640 bytes. Don't believe it. Adam 864 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 10:15am Subject: Re: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer atrionfo Just checking- does anyone think that the Signetics Instructor 50 computer is off topic? After I posted the first two pieces of information about the computer, I realized just how far away the Instructor 50 is from a gaming computer. It has a 2650, but it doesn't use a 2636/2637. Any objections to these postings? Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 865 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 11:09am Subject: 2650 Arcade games - Know Any? atrionfo This is a list of three arcade game that I know use the 2650 (from http://www.mame.dk). There must be more- what are they? PeT, would you know? Anyone else? Do some of these use the 2636? 1) Bigfoot Bonkers (c) Meadows Games, Inc. 1976 2) Lazer Command (c) Meadows Games, Inc. 1976 3) Meadows Lanes (c) Meadows Games, Inc. 1977 So, in the above game, is Laser spelled wrong or what? Adam 866 From: "Charles Morgan" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 2:41pm Subject: Re: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer ventrra Adam, I personally can't see any real problem with them being posted. If it helps us, in some way, to get to the heart of the systems being researched here (looks like it to me), then I would think that makes it on topic. There seem to be a number of mysterious things about this whole business, anyway. Perhaps this whole thing began with something like this and then "advanced" into the consoles that we all know and love ^_^? --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Just checking- does anyone think that the Signetics Instructor 50 computer > is off topic? After I posted the first two pieces of information about the > computer, I realized just how far away the Instructor 50 is from a gaming > computer. It has a 2650, but it doesn't use a 2636/2637. Any objections to > these postings? > > Adam > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 867 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:15pm Subject: FS mrhaboobi Hi Guys, Well i just wanted to let you that im going to be selling my spare Arcadia/Tunix Collection. I was going to list this on Ebay, but thought i would let you guys know first as im sure there will be some interest in it. Ive listed out the items i have, id rather sell as a complete package, but im happy to talk to people on individual items, if there are more than one person interested in an item then i will not sell the item privately, unfortunately ive had a bad experience before trying to sell a game in which two people bidded against each other and i ended up getting caught in the middle and getting a bad name because of it. I dont want this to happen again. Anyways here is the list. of stuff i have. All Items are Tunix. Im overseas of course. Tunix Machine - Woodgrain Base Tunix Machine - Black Base #1 Space Attack - good condition manual - Manual #2 Jungler #3 Super Gobbler - Average-good condition box - Box - Manual #6 Missile War - Very good condition + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #7 Ocean Battle - good condition writing on back of box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #10 Soccer - average-good condition box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #11 Star Chess - very good condition box - Box #12 Capture - very good condition box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #13 Brain Quiz - average-poor box writing on back of box + 4 overlays - Box - Manual #16 Space Raiders #17 Tanks A Lot - good condition box + 2 overlays - Box - #18 Red Clash - average-poor box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #19 Grand Slam Tennis - good condition box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #20 Spiders - very poor boxBox - Manual #21 The End - very good condition + right overlay - Box - Manual #22 Jump Bug - trashed box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #24 R2D Tank - trashed box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #25 Turtles #27 Hobo - average condition box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #28 Funky Fish - good condition box + 2 overlays - Box - Manual #29 Pleiades - trashed box + right overlay - Box I have not set a price for this stuff, im interested in your offers. Thanks 868 From: "oboissea" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 5:24pm Subject: 2650 based computer oboissea Hi guys, First: I read all the posts! Second: I have a 2650 based computer in my site. I have not much information about it, but it could be interesting. Have a look here: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=45 --- Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 869 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:15pm Subject: Re: Interton Word Processor stefanpiasecki to him > nicely, we shouted at him, but nothing would help. He even has not > really realized that the new moderator of the list has shown him > the 'yellow card'. Hopefully he will recognize if we should be > forced to ban him off, but i doubt that... Gee, you must be talking of Stefan Effenberg. Bwuhahuar (Germany only joke about a soccer player who would still claim to be right if a massive 99,9% of Earth's population would shout "you-are-wrong") Stefan 870 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:17pm Subject: Re: Interton Motocross creation stefanpiasecki Well, the Palladium schematics show a bridge names "PAL/NTSC" somewhere. I believe the Arcadia has one, maybe the Interton as well? I once scanned the schematics and I believe Ward once uploaded them.... Stefan 871 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 7:29pm Subject: Re: Interton Word Processor stefanpiasecki The C64 was my first computer, and when I had it I only could compare it to my Atari 2600 and Colecovision. It was far superior to the VCS, and it seemed about the same as the Colecovision (this was when I only had type-in programs). Pretty soon though I realized that the C64 was my kinda computer. It played Pitfall II, and Zork and all these other fun games. At that time I had never even heard of the Arcadia. The first time I ever saw an Arcadia was at a pawn shop. I was looking for Atari stuff in about 1993 and this guy says something like, "I don't have that, but I have this," and he showed me an Arcadia 2001. I turned it down. Years later when I read that the system has 28K (yes, I was a true believer in those days), I kicked myself for passing it up. >this is the kind of stories I really like. I bought my first Jaguar this way (and now have a cool although not complete collection - and will not complete it. A friend bought the N64 I wanted and then only the Jag was left, but I bet that I had more fun playing and collecting for the Jag than I would have had with the N64). However, from reading all those posts: am I the only one who got the Arcadia as a kid, waiting for every new catalgue full of curiosity, calling up Schmid for news on Jump Bug, reading reviews and comparing them to Atari-games of these days (that most of my friends in school had) and writing letters to Schmid to make them do a TVG version of Rock'n Rope? Ahhh, good old days. Stefan 872 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 8:02pm Subject: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programming in stefanpiasecki Well, I have to admit that I am sometimes writing some of the posts in a hurry in my office, so probably I am missing to explain some things between the lines here and then. I did not want to say that Philips developed a strategy themselves to compete with Atari. But obviously they intended to provide the "raw materials" and used the hype to make other companies jump on the band-waggon. And we should not forget that early Arcadia clones like the Palladium and Mr. Altus systems have a sticker on their casing "Licensed by Magnavox" which was North-American Philips these days. Probably it was just as easy as many licensing deals are, also today: - Philips invented the chip and found it to be useful for games also - while evaluating their chances on the market, they obviously showed their technology off to many companies and then, or at a later stage, helped Elektor to create heir articles (bot companies are Dutch and located in the same area - and afaik P. Holmes has relatives at Philips - but I would have to recheck my mails with Elektor) - slowly demand began ro raise and Philips helped themselves by creating the Palladium machines (obviously they were developed by Magnavox and licensed back to Europe and Magnavox had gaming experiences back then, we know that Philips was not too keen on video games, but it wouldn't have been the first time in history that an employee uses what the mother companies produces (chips) to turn them into something he would like to work on and then shows the officials would they *could* do)) - I believe that the early machines and the first games (many of those Palladium games are identical to the early Arcadia games and similar to some Interton games - Horse Racing and Ocean Battle for instance) were used for demonstration purposes to licensees such as Emerson and Schmid. To boost such sales, the licensor may have promised new games (as the licensees had no own programming capabilities) based on arcade hits (this news was rapidly spread by those new licensees). At around the same time UA Ltd. may have been founded - outside of Philips. Mind that the early games on Arcadia (such as Star Chess etc.) have no copyright notice while all others show the (C) UA marking. Another evidence: NO Palladium game ever mentioned UA Ltd. This is totally Arcadia specific Oops, more than what I wanted to write. This is just a theory. But from my experience I know that some deals that later turn out to be something big weren't planned that way. Sometimes it is just two parties getting together for some completely different reason and during lunch one party mentiones about its latest hardware reasearches and the other finds this useful for its new strategies to open up a new market. Stefan 873 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Oct 25, 2002 8:04pm Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > Hallo allemaal, > [this was dutch; courtesy Ruud Baltissen] > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" > wrote: > > > Am I making any sense here? > > > > Adam > > Yes. > -mc ;-) As far as real Dutch goes... Ik wens je heel veel geluk en een leuke dag! Groetjes Stefan P.S.: Basically it says: have a nice day 874 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 0:57am Subject: Re: Phillips Owns Home-Brew Computer Monitor Rights? mc71de Bedankt! (thanks) -mc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > > Hallo allemaal, > > [this was dutch; courtesy Ruud Baltissen] > > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" > > wrote: > > > > > Am I making any sense here? > > > > > > Adam > > > > Yes. > > -mc ;-) > > As far as real Dutch goes... > > Ik wens je heel veel geluk en een leuke dag! > Groetjes > Stefan > P.S.: Basically it says: have a nice day 875 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:02am Subject: Re: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer atrionfo Adam Trionfo wrote: >> Notice anything? None of these sites have yet given the correct amount of RAM- they have each said the computer has 640 bytes. Don't believe it. >> Wheh! I caught this error before anyone else did. Sure, the Instructor 50 could have 640 bytes of RAM. That's less than 1K. I think that the numbe 640 is what threw me there. That number is the DOS limitation, and I suggest associate it (I guess) with kilobytes. I wrote above, "don't believe it." Just another example of when not to take anything at face value. 876 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:15am Subject: Re: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer atrionfo Charles Morgan wrote: >> I personally can't see any real problem with them [snippets of info on 2650 computers] being posted. >> I was hoping that readers would say that. Sometimes though, I just get caught up in reading that I think everyone will be interested in what I'm reading (relating to the 2650, anyway). >> If it helps us, in some way, to get to the heart of the systems being researched here (looks like it to me), then I would think that makes it on topic. >> I did run across one other 2650 computer that I didn't post about. There was a blurry picture of the computer, with no technical info, but there was some short info beneath the picture that basically said that the computer was used in an industrial setting to control things. That kind of info is rather useless; it's more like gossip. >> There seem to be a number of mysterious things about this whole business, anyway. Perhaps this whole thing began with something like this and then "advanced" into the consoles that we all know and love ^_^? >> That would be a leap of faith, but nothing around here can ever be discounted. I'm sure one of the hardware folks around here would be able to take a look at the the Instructor 50 and say, well, gee, it's marked Interton on the PCB, and it has a 2636, but it's just not hooked up to anything. I suppose if I just solder this wire to that... There! Now it plays Interton carts- and N64 too. Amazing. Adam 877 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:27am Subject: 2650 based computer atrionfo oboissea wrote: >> I have a 2650 based computer in my site. I have not much information about it, but it could be interesting. Have a look here: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=45 >> It's quite interesting. It comes with an 8K ROM that contains BASIC. See, first there pops up a 2650 editor (a posting from yesterday), then a BASIC for the same CPU (today). Pretty soon we can find some more utilities and if we get a roomful of 2650 computers from the late 1970's, we'll be working in style. We'll only have our electric bill triple in price. Really though, this is a pretty neat looking computer. It is using a different display set other than the 2636: the computer has no graphics mode, but instead uses a 80 chars. x 16 lines text mode. Regardless, this is a neat "find." Thanks to oboissea for pointing it out. I wonder when the latest computer (not counting game consoles) was made that used the 2650 as a CPU? Adam 878 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:38am Subject: Schematics; was: Interton Motocross creation atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> Well, the Palladium schematics show a bridge names "PAL/NTSC" somewhere. I believe the Arcadia has one, maybe the Interton as well? I once scanned the schematics and I believe Ward once uploaded them.... >> I scanned and uploaded the Emerson Service Manual in April. I'm not sure if this has the same info that in being referred to here. If you're interested, the file is called emerson_service_manual.pdf as can be found in the file area of the discussion group here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_information/ I have not seen Palladium schematics on the message board, please, correct me if I am mistaken. Adam 879 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:39am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programming in mc71de Hi all, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > And we should not forget that early Arcadia clones like the Palladium > and Mr. Altus systems have a sticker on their casing "Licensed by > Magnavox" which was North-American Philips these days. Sorry Stefan, but what is on those stickers is just Ralph Baers general 'Video Game' patent. It is even on pong-style Palladium machines... And Magnavox themselves were developing that Odyssey2 machine; please don't ask why they had Intel develop the chip. One of these 'coffee break' deals, i think. BTW: The german 'Patentamt' can be reached at www.dpma.de, click 'recherche', then 'depatisnet'. Then you can switch to english language. But- to refer to an earlier post by Adam- i don't really think you will find much here. Of course Signetics/Philips will have a german patent on the 2650 (and maybe 2636/2637), but their main interest should have been to get an american patent. Remember signetics was an american company (the main company, not the chip plant in Asia still in business today...). And- to say it now before i forget it again- i think it was a clever move for Philips to design their video game around a cpu they had laying 'in the drawer'. Sales for indistrial applications will have been low, so why not increase the market? After all, they would earn money; if they designed it around, say, the 6502 (notice the palindrome to 2650!), money would have gone into someone else's pocket. Now someone please explain to me why philips didn't have Magnavox use that 'in-house' product instead of have Intel supply the chips... > Philips helped themselves by > creating the Palladium machines (obviously they were developed by > Magnavox and licensed back to Europe and Magnavox had gaming > experiences back then, Not really... Magnavox held Baer's 'all things video games' patent, but a- they were busy toying around with the O2 b- they almost had canned the O2 project; it was a single Intel(!) engineer who 'pulled a ward' to produce software for the O2 and keep it alive. Of course it was Intel's interest to sell the O2 chips... Magnavox' patent does only cover the 'display something on a tv screen and move it around with a (joystick)'. Sorry, i had the same idea that we might have found the patent on the 2637, but we don't... > licensees such as > Emerson and Schmid. In general: ACK; but i *do* wonder who these 'schmid' guys were. They are definitely *not* 'Schmidt Spiele', a well-known board and card game publisher. But the Schmid logo seems to look quite similar... > At around the same time UA Ltd. may have been > founded - outside of Philips. It really seems to have been an 'Intellectual property pool'. Maybe spun-off by Philips, maybe a small company that bought the stuff Philips didn't want to care about anymore... (wild guess: They won't happen to have something to do with 'United Artists', will they?!?) And then this 'Interton, all-german video game' story. Might it be that the 2636 was a common developement of chip-maker Signetics/Philips and some Interton engineers? And when exactly did Interton Electronics go belly-up? Some time ago i thought about a theory that Interton licensed the Polybrain/Palladium to 'someone else' (look how similar VC4000 and Palladium hand controls look. Is it just coincidence?) to get money. Later on, they went bankrupt, and the left-overs had been bought by 'UA'. But on the other hand, Interton games and machines have been built in 1983, when that 'UA' craze had already started. Someone please give me a candle, to bring some light into this darkness. Maybe a Philips light bulb would do the job too... -mc, clueless today. 880 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:42am Subject: Re: Schematics; was: Interton Motocross creation stefanpiasecki I have seen your file just after I wrote my post. I'll have a look at home and scan it again if you want. Stefn 881 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 1:51am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programming in stefanpiasecki Hi, Schmid as a company was very much like Emerson itself: just buying electronic stuffs and stocks from everywhere and relabeling it. I rmemeber seeing radios from SChmid in the shops these days. They weren't too good at it I recall. The company was located in Dillingen in the South-West. I tried to trace down ex-employees, but weren't successful. I also contacted the chamber of commerce and the Amtsgericht in Dillingen (place where you open up a company) to find out more things. They initially were nice and helpful, but then again they never responded again. This would be surely the right place to start. The owner could tell us more just as the Tuerk brothers of Interton. Then I had time-problems again and wasn't able to chase things down the road. If I am not able to get things going again next week, then we should probably join forces and share the work. Stefan 882 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 2:21am Subject: Memories; was: Interton Word Processor atrionfo Stafan wrote: >> >The C64 was my first computer, and when I had it I only >could compare it to my Atari 2600 and Colecovision. this is the kind of stories I really like. >> I could probably fill you up all day on fond-childhood-memory-stories, at least about the 'ole C64 and probably some on the VCS. A C64 Memory: I used to waste summer days away writing silly BASIC programs. One of them was a map of the local neighborhood that used the Commodore ASCII graphics. I thought it was SO cool. I'd show it to me friends, and while I never had anyone ask, "why'd you do that?," I wonder it myself now. But I needn't wonder. I was about twelve and it was FUN. I was making this computer DO stuff. It was under my command (not that I could command it well). My very first experience with programming the C64 was before I even knew what a print statement was (well, maybe I knew what that was, but nothing much more than that). I drew, on the screen a picture of a helicopter using just reverse-space. It was crude, but it looked like a helicopter. However, whenever I would clear the screen I could never get it to come back. I thought that all I had to do was type RUN and it would work. Nothing. I was rather frustrated, I'll tell you! I remade that helicopter on the screen many time before I realized that the picture needed line number before it. Oh! Line numbers. Of course, line numbers didn't help because I didn't write the stuff in a print statement. I think I got fed-up with trying to get that "program" to run. I should read the manual. My friend, who also had a C64, went off to computer camp for a week. He was disappointed because he knew that they used Apples there. Despite that, he came back the BASIC king (at least to me). He was able to make several programs up himself, and he could explain the working of very short BASIC programs to me. I was awed, but I still never went to computer camp, I just kept typing those Compute! program listings into my precious C64. Then this kid at school gave me a disk full of games. I REALLY thought that they were going to be Compute! games or some type of PD games (I had been trading PD games with a kid across the street). Anyway, I got this disk back and it said, to type load "menu",8,1. Well, I'll be- the menu loaded all by itself and there were about six games that I had heard of before. Imagine that, one of them was Buck Rogers, the same game that my a friend (a Coleco Adam owner) always played on his computer. I don't know if I tried that one first (I think I played Dig Dug first), but I tried Buck Rogers eventually, and it was the same game. These games were not my first C64 commercial games (I had a few others that had been given to me as gifts), but these games were all on one disk-- ONE DISK. Wow, I could hardly believe my luck. I was so thrilled. Every time that a friend or a cousin came over I popped that disk and we played Dig Dug or Ms. Pac Man. I didn't get another disk like that for a long time. I still depended on Compute!'s Gazzette or Compute! books or even Family Computing for programs and games, but I was on the lookout for another disk just like that! A VCS Memory In the hey-day of the Atari 2600 I only had six cartridges; and they most of them weren't even that good, but that wasn't a problem. Everyone had a 2600, it seemed, and I was able to borrow games from friends. My 2600 was hooked up to a 13" B&W TV in my bedroom (because "if it is hooked to the living room TV, it will ruin it)- so for a long time I only played my games in B&W. Sure, if I visited a friends house we played in color, and I wanted a color TV, for the most part it didn't bother me. One weekend my father bought me Chopper Command, which was a new game at the time, and I played it to death. Before school (wasn't really supposed to do that), after school, on the weekends: with friends or alone. Thinking back, with all that playing, you'd think I would have gotten good, but I don't recall being really good or anything. Eventually I bored of that game and I lent it to a friend. When I went over to his house to pick it up I saw the game, for the very first time, in COLOR. I could hardly believe it. Chopper Command looked totally different. I wanted to play it SO bad, but I wouldn't (maybe he was going somewhere with his family, I can't remember why anymore). I brought that game home and played it, but it looked so different now. I wanted this game in color, but I never did get to play it in color until the early 1990's when I started to collect for the Atari again. Chopper Command was part of the group of games that was with the VCS I bought. I played it in color. I was happy. Then I played one of the other thirty-nine games! There you go Stefan, some memories, not Arcadia specific (well, at all), but early memories of having fun with computer and consoles. Anyone have anything to add, especially about the Interton or Arcadia gorups? Adam 883 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 2:21am Subject: Re: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer mc71de Hallo allemal, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > That would be a leap of faith, but nothing around here can ever be > discounted. I'm sure one of the hardware folks around here would be able to > take a look at the the Instructor 50 and say, well, gee, it's marked > Interton on the PCB, and it has a 2636, but it's just not hooked up to > anything. I suppose if I just solder this wire to that... There! Now it > plays Interton carts- and N64 too. Amazing. > > Adam Maybe you are closer to the truth than you think. Let me tell what i believe is the history of the Elektor computer: Eindhoven, The Netherlands, 1977/78 Philips headquarter, R&D dungeon (maybe it was at Signetics', somewhere else on the world. But that does not really matter...) 'Now, we see Fairchild and Atari earn money with ‘P based video game machine. Let's make one ourselves!' They looked around what they had and could use: The lightning-fast 8x300- no, too expensive, too large (The case is even larger than a 68000!) The 2650- Cool! Cheap to produce, powerful enough to drive a video game, and sitting on the shelves since next-to-noone wants to buy it. Now they made the 2636, with a 2650 bus interface, so everyone who would buy it to make a video game would have to buy a 2650, too. But how would one program that thing? 'Now, we have our trainer unit, to make engineers familiar with the 2650. Let's add the 2636, adapt our existing 2650 monitor from 7- segment LED output to PVI output, et voila: a video game programming unit. We will make this our reference design, and show it to everybody who might wnt to buy it. [ding-dong] Interton? You want it? Here you are... [ding-dong] Radofin? yes, you can have it. And call these Interton guys, maybe you can share licenses... [ding-dong] Elektuur? hi boys... you want to publish something vodeo games? Of course you can publish our reference design... have fun...' Maybe something like that. I really don't know at what point of the story Interton jumped in, if they helped with the 2636 or not (maybe not), and how similar the 'Instructor 50' monitor really is to the 'Elektor' monitor. But it is definitely the same type of 'user interface', only the output device is different. And adding a 2636 into a 2650 computer is not especially difficult. So if someone wants to give me an 'instructor 50' for free, i'll do it! (I dolike the wood grain case and the blue keys anyway...) Disclaimer: I was just kidding. I know these things have their price, and i would never butcher one to throw a 2636 in it. But the idea is nice.. Enjoy! -mc 884 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 2:30am Subject: Re: Schematics mc71de Hi all, hi Stefan. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > I have seen your file just after I wrote my post. I'll have a look at > home and scan it again if you want. > Stefn The Palladium schematics were once in the photos section, but not of any use. They are different enough to the Arcadia schematics that we should have them both; so if jou can scan them, please do. My copy of the Palladium manual is quite curly and i don't think i could get good scans out of it... -mc 885 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:05am Subject: Re: Memories mc71de Hallo und guten Abend, Adam! (the following story will play in germany, so i opted for a german headline this time :-) saying: Hi and good evening) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Anyone have anything to add, especially about the > Interton or Arcadia gorups? > > Adam > Okay, here is my story. Back in the mid-80ies, i was in a book shop in a small german town, right in the middle between Cologne and Aachen. I looked around at the 'electronics' shelf, and bought a book that teaches soldering, and a book about a TV game system. I always liked computers and hardware, and there was a chess board on the cover. (Some day, i will post a scan...) I went home, read the book, found it to be written in awful language (Wildstar mode of a sort), and mostly forgot about it. I was especially annoyed that they didn't include that chess program, and i couldn't even figure out how they did the display of the chess board that was shown on the cover. 1992. University of cologne. During a break between lessons i read my standard video games mag. They had an article on the history of video games, showing the channel-f (strange! Yellow carts!), some systems i knew about already, the Vectrex including the 3d-imager (Cool! Crazy!)... and 'the first and only german video game'! Whoa! 2001. Ebay arrived at my computer. All those machines i could never afford back in the days, and most of them for cheap money. I started to collect them, and to search the net for information about them. As a 'hardware guy', i especially like things as data sheets and stuff. And programming info, just to know how things work... Well, and then came the day i came across a text by 'cyberyogi' Chris Windler (We have it in the files area, 'texts' section, something with 'VC4000' in the title.) Anyway, it mentioned the 'all- german' VC4000... and MY book i bought many many years ago!!! Well, i *had* to get one of these now! And i learned about Ward Shrake, and the Arcadia, and how similar (yet totally different) it was to the VC4000... The rest, as they say, is history. Message board, 'pulling the Ward', and stuff. Final words: I still have no idea how they made that picture of a chess board. And PeT hasn't, either; i talked to him recently about that subject. But the book claims that the picture is a 'factory photo by Philips/Valvo'. Don't ask me what they did in their R&D... -mc 886 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:11am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin atrionfo >> I did not want to say that Philips developed a strategy themselves to compete with Atari. But obviously they intended to provide the "raw materials" and used the hype to make other companies jump on the band-waggon. >> That is a good working theory. There are so many missing pieces that we need much more information to fill in the gaps. How do detectives do it? I suppose they spend a lot of their clients money to get answers. Anyone have LOTS of money to throw around? Or lots of time? Or both? I wouldn't know what to do with the time, or what to do with the money (except hire a detective). >> [Philips probably] helped Elektor to create heir articles >> Why can't we talk to the author of the book (Peter Holmes) about that? Can't we find anyone at Elektor (in the late seventies) who would know? Some of those people from the magazine must still be reachable. They might be able help with some of the basic questions. >> I believe that the early machines and the first games [...] were used for demonstration purposes to licensees >> If Philips did create the early machines, then this would make perfect sense. The question is, how much of a direct hand did Philips have in development? It seems that the presumption is that Philips had a big hand, but we're placing theory upon theory here. If any one of these working theories is inaccurate, then the whole house of cards will fall down. >> To boost such sales, the licensor may have promised new games (as the licensees had no own programming capabilities) based on arcade hits (this news was rapidly spread by those new licensees). >> This is a sound theory, and even if Philips didn't have a direct hand, this theory still may be true. Someone had to be the source for all these machines that eventually spread around the world. >> At around the same time UA Ltd. may have been founded - outside of Philips. Mind that the early games on Arcadia (such as Star Chess etc.) have no copyright notice while all others show the (C) UA marking. Another evidence: NO Palladium game ever mentioned UA Ltd. This is totally Arcadia specific >> I used to think that UA Ltd. was a big piece of the puzzle. Certainly if we find an employee of that company they will fill in some details, but if it's accurate that UA Ltd. is Arcadia specific, then they don't hold as much of the puzzle as I thought. We've got some good working theories going here. How should we continue to investigate? For a while (over the Summer) everyone was burnt out from the overload of information this Spring. What are the next steps? Have we all taken a look at what was gathered and do we know where to proceed? Almost everything from the Spring was compiled by Ward into the latest FAQ and the DP Guide. Maybe we should all read it over and simplify it down to the next queries that we should make. Adam 887 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 3:46am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> The german 'Patentamt' can be reached at www.dpma.de, click 'recherche', then 'depatisnet'. Then you can switch to english language. >> I will have to try that sometime, but if you have already searched it, then I imagine that it's not there. >> 6502 (notice the palindrome to 2650!) >> You don't know how many times I have caught myself writing 6502 instead of 2650. I think I have caught myself each time, but if in some future posting I say something about a "6502 Arcadia, " don't get all excited. It won't be some new species of Arcadia that we all have to lookout for, it's just a typing mistake. >> Now someone please explain to me why philips didn't have Magnavox use that 'in-house' product instead of have Intel supply the chips... >> Most likely for the same reason that Intel chips are in most PC computers today- they somehow push and get there way. I don't know how they would have been pushing back then, but whatever route they choose, it worked. Maybe they said, "Use these chips or I'll break your kneecaps." That strategy would work with me. >> it was a single Intel(!) engineer who 'pulled a ward' to produce software for the O2 and keep it alive. Of course it was Intel's interest to sell the O2 chips... >> Ward will appreciate that remark. Ed Averett sure did write games like a madman, though, didn't he. As a reminder, the interview with him (that Ward originally pointed out) is at: http://www.dadgum.com/halcyon/BOOK/AVERETT.HTM >> It really seems to have been an 'Intellectual property pool'. Maybe spun-off by Philips, maybe a small company that bought the stuff Philips didn't want to care about anymore... >> A puzzler, isn't it? We're all full of "maybe," and "I think." This, in one way makes me smile because we've learned not to state these theories ad facts. On the other hand, it makes me sad because, well, we don't know anything about this company; I'd like to read some solid information on this company (as would the rest of you, I bet). >> (wild guess: They won't happen to have something to do with 'United Artists', will they?!?) >> That IS a wild one. Every answer around here seems to be rather wild, so, it turns out that that is the truth. Remember that. I'll call them up and ask, "We want all your Arcadia games placed into the public domain, and, uh, all your movies too." There would be a pause, some laugher and then an answer, "Sure, you can have all the movies (we don't care about them), but you will never be able to touch those games! Never. Nor will we ever give you any background information about them." Click. >> And then this 'Interton, all-german video game' story. [...] >> I'm lost and swimming for shore. I'm glad I only have to worry about one weird American machine, the Arcadia, that was licensed from Roswell Aliens (I guess). Didn't I see an episode of the "X-Files" about this very incident? >> Someone please give me a candle, to bring some light into this darkness. Maybe a Philips light bulb would do the job too... >> You're going to need something stronger than that. Perhaps a lighthouse will supply the amount of light you need to see this matter clearly. Probably not. Adam 888 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 4:11am Subject: Re: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> Now they made the 2636, with a 2650 bus interface, so everyone who would buy it to make a video game would have to buy a 2650, too. But how would one program that thing? >> "I know," says Man1. "We shall write a book in German, but give the English version VERY low distribution and we will only print a hundred copies of it." "Sure," continues Man2, "but we should shred all but five copies of the English book, just to give people in the Twenty-first century something to do." "What are you talking about, Man2?," says Man1. "Just do it," Man2 says. Man2, the boss, walks out of the room with confidence that Man1 will follow his instructions. He does, fully. >> 'Now, we have our trainer unit, to make engineers familiar with the 2650. Let's add the 2636, adapt our existing 2650 monitor from 7- segment LED output to PVI output, et voila: a video game programming unit. We will make this our reference design, and show it to everybody who might wnt to buy it. >> Again Man2 steps into the room. He says, "Ah, but wait, there is more. We shall force the manufactures to make the systems compatible... mostly." He smiles. The laughs. Man1 feels an chill, full of evil, fill the room." Man1 speaks now, "This is probably to piss off the people in the twenty-first century, right?" "Of course," says Man2. Man2 still has that smile on his face. >> [ding-dong] [...] >> I like the way that you presented that idea. Works well, and I bite into it (presuming that all our former house-of-card-theories are still standing. >> how similar the 'Instructor 50' monitor really is to the 'Elektor' monitor. Well, it's smaller, that's for sure. Much of that ROM space for the monitor is used to create characters. Though, wouldn't it be neat to find an Instructor 50 with some tapes, and discover that its tapes are directly readable by the home-built computer? Not that the program would run, of course. >> And adding a 2636 into a 2650 computer is not especially difficult. >> Oh, you hardware guys. You make everything seem so easy. It's scary. >> So if someone wants to give me an 'instructor 50' for free, i'll do it! Disclaimer: I was just kidding. I know these things have their price, and i would never butcher one to throw a 2636 in it. But the idea is nice.. >> Well, to get the job done properly, you would have to make sure that the machine was backward compatible (i.e it has to be able to use the LED and TV display). That ought to make the job more fun. If I ever run into an Instructor computer, I would certainly loan it to you, just so that we could know how close to the truth we are here. I don't mean if it could be "upgraded" or not, but, for example, how similar are its guts? Adam 889 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 4:29am Subject: Re: Memories atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> saying: Hi and good evening >> I'm eight hours behind you, so it was still morning when I read this message. I'd have a serious case of jet lag if I flew to Germany. >> Ebay arrived at my computer. All those machines i could never afford back in the days, and most of them for cheap money. >> At first videogames on ebay were inexpensive (and many still are). Those were also the days that you could sell your used copy of Windows or Office, human body parts could be sold without worry, etc (you can't do THAT anymore). I had a friend buy a used current copy of office for about $30- this was when the shelf price was about $500 (I think). I couldn't believe it. >> Well, and then came the day i came across a text by 'cyberyogi' Chris Windler [...] Anyway, it mentioned the 'all- german' VC4000... and MY book i bought many many years ago!!! Well, i *had* to get one of these now! >> Yes, that's how the bug grows. I've pretty-much stomped on my collecting bug. It's a rather inexpensive hooby (unless you want the really rare stuff), but it's a hobby that requires lots of space. Baseball card collectors keep their cards in a folder or two on a shelf. But not computer and console collectors. Nope. >> I still have no idea how they made that picture of a chess board [on the book]. And PeT hasn't, either; i talked to him recently about that subject. But the book claims that the picture is a 'factory photo by Philips/Valvo'. Don't ask me what they did in their R&D... >> Is it possible that the picture is from other hardware entirely? It wouldn't be the first time that a really nice screenshot of a game is on the box (or) book and that's not what you're getting. In particular I remember C64 computer games in the late eighties always showing really cool screenshots, then in very tiny writing there would be something to this affect, "Amiga Screenshot," or "Atari ST Screenshot." Remember that? Maybe it's something like that? I would be interested in a picture of the chessboard that can be displayed (supposedly) with a 2636 chip (right?). Adam 890 From: slapdash@... Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 5:46am Subject: Re: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin slapdash26 Quoting Adam Trionfo : > Why can't we talk to the author of the book (Peter Holmes) about that? He might be hard to find? I did a lookup up at Amazon.co.uk and it seems that he did a lot of books in the 80s but then either disappeared (two- author theory) or started writing about Tudor history (one-author) in the 90s. > Can't we find anyone at Elektor (in the late seventies) who would know? I tried via email, and they don't even have archives from those days. Sounded like no people from back then either. > Some of those people from the magazine must still be reachable. They might > be able help with some of the basic questions. More likely placing an ad in Elektor magazine might be good bait... >> I believe that the early machines and the first games [...] were used >> for demonstration purposes to licensees I think General Instruments did this too, with a system they called the GIMINI, and which I THINK became the 7-cart GI-chip system family but am not sure. > I used to think that UA Ltd. was a big piece of the puzzle. Certainly if > we find an employee of that company they will fill in some details [...] I did try finding Andrew Choi at one time without much success. Russ ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 891 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:59am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin mc71de Hi Russ, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash@e... wrote: > Quoting Adam Trionfo : > > Why can't we talk to the author of the book (Peter Holmes) about that? > > He might be hard to find? Especially since it was *Paul* Holmes? > I did a lookup up at Amazon.co.uk and it seems > that he did a lot of books in the 80s but then > either disappeared (two- author theory) or started > writing about Tudor history (one-author) in > the 90s. > > > Can't we find anyone at Elektor (in the late seventies) who would know? > > I tried via email, and they don't even have archives from those days. > Sounded like no people from back then either. Stefan is in touch with Elektor (Germany? Netherlands?), and it seems they are willing to help. Let's see what will come from them... > > > Some of those people from the magazine must still be reachable. They might > > be able help with some of the basic questions. > > More likely placing an ad in Elektor magazine might be good bait... Ouch! That one was too easy to think of! Well, let's wait what Stefan can find out, and then we will place one... > > >> I believe that the early machines and the first games [...] were used > >> for demonstration purposes to licensees > > I think General Instruments did this too, with a > system they called the GIMINI, which iirc was the codename for the GI 1600 processor. > and which I THINK became the 7-cart GI-chip > system family but am not sure. What the heck is that?!? Anyway, it definitely became the Intellivision. See http://www.intellivisionlives.com for details. Is this the same thing you meant, or what else? INTV definitely had more than 7 carts... It's funny. right at the moment i have an intellicart sitting at the customs, a device to inject data from the PC into the 'interesting' architecture of the INTV... IMHO the 1600 had the most elegant implementation of a 16bit bus, but it is totally different to anything i have ever seen. Except the 8-bit F8/Channel-F, but here we bump against the 8bit limit. Has anyone ever tried to dump an F( cart ;-) -mc 892 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 7:25am Subject: Re: Memories mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > mc71de wrote: > >> > saying: Hi and good evening > >> > > I'm eight hours behind you, so it was still morning when I read this > message. I'd have a serious case of jet lag if I flew to Germany. > Same the other way around... > Yes, that's how the bug grows. I've pretty-much stomped on my collecting > bug. It's a rather inexpensive hooby (unless you want the really rare > stuff), Tell me about collecting all 20 german SABA/Channel-F Carts. Especially when you need a manual for the rarer ones. Has anyone ever seen a chess cart that lights an LED *on the cart* when it's busy calculating the next move? > but it's a hobby that requires lots of space. *sigh* > Baseball card collectors keep their cards in a > folder or two on a shelf. But not computer > and console collectors. Nope. Well, say, you don't have a hole puncher to punch holes into your consoles and carts and put them into three-ring binders? Hehehe... > > >> > I still have no idea how they made that picture of a > chess board [on the book]. And PeT hasn't, either; i talked to > him recently about > that subject. But the book claims that the picture is a 'factory > photo by Philips/Valvo'. Don't ask me what they did in their R&D... > >> > > Is it possible that the picture is from other hardware entirely? Sure. Exactly what PeT suggested (An early 2637 prototype maybe? it's not too different to star chess...) But things are worse. The book tells you how to build the basic system (basic; not *BASIC*!!!) and some 'cartridges' (add-on boards with one or two ROM sockets). Finally, it shows a board with 6K of ROM, 2K of RAM and states explicitly: 'In it's largest extension, the tv game can be programmed as a chess computer', next to a screen shot. Of course the 'chess' program is absent. BTW: it has a listing of what looks like Interton #3 'paddle games'. At a quick glance it looks like a thoroughly commented listing, but: the 'comments' are just a stupid description of the Opcode. They even make less sense than the actual 'mnemonic' assembler code... Did i mention this book is awful? > It wouldn't be the first time that a really nice > screenshot of a game is on the box (or) book and > that's not what you're getting. In particular I > remember C64 computer games in the late eighties > always showing really cool screenshots, then in > very tiny writing there would be something to this > affect, "Amiga Screenshot," or "Atari ST Screenshot." > Remember that? *sigh* > Maybe it's something like that? They claim something else... But what exactly was it? I'm not curious, i just wanna know... > I would be interested in a picture of the > chessboard that can be displayed (supposedly) > with a 2636 chip (right?). > Imagine Star chess, but with 'real' chessmen. Add a display of the last move. perfectly possible on Arcadia. But not on PVI2636. I did already mention that it was possible to 'stack' the output of several PVIs. That would work, but the (Topp) book explicitly claims it is done on a 2650-single2636-6Krom-2Kram machine... And the screen shot was done at Philips R&D... Expect pictures soon... -mc 893 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:25pm Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> >Quoting Adam Trionfo : > > Why can't we talk to the author of the book (Peter Holmes) about that? > >He might be hard to find? Especially since it was *Paul* Holmes? >> I'm just quoting from the information that Worldcat has in its database. Here is part of the information that I posted in message 622: "Title: The TV games computer: an exciting introduction to microprocessors Author: Holmes, P. Author(s): Holmes, P. 1937- (Peter), Publication: [Canterbury] : Elektor, Year: 1981 Description: 248 p. : ill., music ; 21 cm. Language: English Standard No: ISBN: 0905705084 (pbk) :" I thought that I read somewhere that the author's name was Paul. I wonder why the Worldcat database has the name Peter? Adam 894 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:34pm Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin atrionfo Russ and mc71de wrote: >> >More likely placing an ad in Elektor magazine might be good bait... Ouch! That one was too easy to think of! Well, let's wait what Stefan can find out, and then we will place one... >> That certainly is a good idea. I don't see any reason to wait to see what Stefan finds out. We might attract some longtime readers with an ad in Elektor magazine; people who we might never find online or otherwise. Are we talking a real ad (i.e. 1/8 of a page or something like that) or just a short "Hey, we're looking for you in a Want Ads section (if there is one)? Finding out the price for this would be a good way to start. I imagine we'd need to advertise in both the German and English versions of the magazine. Russ, to your knowledge, has any group ever done this before? I remember that Tim Duarte did this with early issues of "The 2600 Connection;" I bought my first issue because of an ad in the back of Atari User magazine (I think). It seems that nowadays people think if you can't find someone using the Internet that the person is unreachable. Adam 895 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 6:45pm Subject: Re: Memories atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> >I would be interested in a picture of the chessboard that can be displayed >(supposedly) >with a 2636 chip (right?). > Imagine Star chess, but with 'real' chessmen. Add a display of the last move. perfectly possible on Arcadia. But not on PVI2636. >> You know, I've never seen any pictures of 2636 games (except screenshots from the German book). Can someone point me to some online (I guess taken with a camera or connected directly to a videocard input)? As I've said before, I'm at a disadvantage not being able to use one of these systems. Also, it's not so much that I even want to use 2637 hardware, or program a 2636 machine, but I am interested in programming the simple monitor that we talked about, and I'd like to see what the heck the home-made computer's monitor can do (I can't even read the chapter that explains what it is capable of- but from the source and screenshot, it looks like the usual stuff). Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 896 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Oct 26, 2002 8:52pm Subject: Re: Memories mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > You know, I've never seen any pictures of 2636 games > (except screenshots from the German book). Can someone > point me to some online (I guess taken with a camera or > connected directly to a videocard input)? http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_games.htm (the distortion that is on some of the screenshots seems to come from some sort of incompatibility between what the interton thinks is a PAL video signal, and what modern TVs want to have...) > and I'd like to see what the heck the home-made > computer's monitor can do (I can't even read the > chapter that explains what it is capable of- but > from the source and screenshot, it looks like the > usual stuff). > > Adam Indeed. Nothing fancy. Strange 'chess' pics to follow... -mc 897 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:14am Subject: Screenshots; was: Re: Memories atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> [Here's a link to Interton pics] http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_games.htm (the distortion that is on some of the screenshots seems to come from some sort of incompatibility between what the interton thinks is a PAL video signal, and what modern TVs want to have...) >> Wow, Dieter did an excellent job with this site (I suspected this would be the case, considering he did author the DP Guide's Interton section). I did a search with Google looking for other screenshots- I'm interested in seeing "Shoot Out" by Choi Andrew. Hey, and that Radofin system looks rather cool. I looks way better than the Aracadia 2001. And, as we all know, the better a system looks, the better a system is. Adam 898 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:26am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin mc71de Hi all, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > mc71de wrote: > >> > It really seems to have been an 'Intellectual property pool'. Maybe > spun-off by Philips, maybe a small company that bought the stuff > Philips didn't want to care about anymore... > >> > > A puzzler, isn't it? We're all full of "maybe," and > "I think." This, in one way makes me smile because we've > learned not to state these theories ad facts. > On the other hand, it makes me sad because, well, we don't > know anything about this company; I'd like to read some > solid information on this company > (as would the rest of you, I bet). In my feeling, we are at a point where we have processed all the facts we know. So it is time to make up a 'working theory', check if it makes sense (if it does, it might be wrong in this case...) and try to find more facts to validate or falsify our theory. Everyday stuff for academic research... Of course it is always important to say at what level of 'confirmedness' your theory is at the moment. Hence 'wild guess'. But it somewhat peeked into my eyes, and Warner owned Atari at that time... > >> > (wild guess: They won't happen to have something to do with 'United > Artists', will they?!?) > >> > > That IS a wild one. ...and i do not really believe it myself... > Every answer around here seems to be rather wild, so, > it turns out that that is the truth. Remember that. > I'll call them up and ask, "We want all your Arcadia > games placed into the public domain, and, uh, > all your movies too." ...yes, of course... (you really want that Wildstar award, don't you?) > There would be a pause, some laugher and then an > answer, "Sure, you can have all the movies > (we don't care about them), ...they are all just some celluloid, y'know, and celluloid is cheap. In fact, it somewhat grows on trees... > but you will never be able to touch those games! > Never. Nor will we ever give you any background > information about them." Click. Sure, it is a conspiration... > > >> > And then this 'Interton, all-german video game' story. [...] > >> > > I'm lost and swimming for shore. I'm glad I only > have to worry about one weird American machine, > the Arcadia, that was licensed from Roswell Aliens > (I guess). Didn't I see an episode of the "X-Files" > about this very incident? Worse. It is the 'Bielefeld Conspiration'... We have to worry about THEM... THEY made us believe in the existance of 'Bielefeld'... and THEY surely will want to make us believe in the existance of UA LTD... > > >> > Someone please give me a candle, to bring > some light into this darkness. > Maybe a Philips light bulb would do the job too... > >> > > You're going to need something stronger than that. > Perhaps a lighthouse will supply the amount of light > you need to see this matter clearly. > Probably not. > > Adam But i insist in using a Philips lighthouse, umm, 'lighting device'!!! ;-) -mc 899 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Oct 27, 2002 3:51am Subject: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots mc71de Hi everyone, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Wow, Dieter did an excellent job with this site >(I suspected this would be the case, considering > he did author the DP Guide's Interton section). Indeed a good job. Dieter, if you are around: May i post the link to the 'Bieling' Interview, or even try a translation? I doubt it is in the DPCG in full length... > Hey, and that Radofin system looks rather cool. Indeed... > I looks way better than the Aracadia 2001. And, as we all > know, the better a system looks, the better a system is. Yes, of course! Definitely! But while we are at that theme: You maybe know of the 'Tchibo' version of the Arcadia, called 'Tele-Fever', sporting a blue case with integrated first controller. Note: some sources say it was 'eduscho', the competitor of tchibo. At that time, iirc eduscho was not as engaged in non-food articles as tchibo. But it does not really matter for my question which one it was. BTW, in the mid-90s tchibo bought eduscho, so today it is no difference anyway... Well: As far as i know, Tchibo (basically a coffee roaster) never had a 'non-coffee' product in their shops for very long; they bought a batch and sold it off, and that was it. On the other hand, making a customized case was (and is) expensive, but this type of case does not appear somewhere else. So: What was that thing? A 'test shot' to see if people liked that design (and they didn't, so it was canned)? Or a 'prototype production' that was sold off for low prices to Tchibo, something like the commodore c65 systems years later? (No, these were not sold to Tchibo...) And finally: Has anyone an idea *when exactly* the Tchibo 'Tele- Fever' was sold? If things have not changed too much from then to now, it should boil down to an 'in-shop' time of half a year maximum... 900 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Oct 28, 2002 2:10am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> In my feeling, we are at a point where we have processed all the facts we know. So it is time to make up a 'working theory', check if it makes sense (if it does, it might be wrong in this case...) and try to find more facts to validate or falsify our theory. Everyday stuff for academic research... Of course it is always important to say at what level of 'confirmedness' your theory is at the moment. >> Has enough new information been gathered since last spring (when there was that flurry of minds at work) to have another working theory? Or is this not "another" theory, but just adding to what's there, or filling in blanks that the theory did not cover? If a working theory of Signetics/Elektor/Interton/Arcadia evolution is decided upon too early it could end up wasting our time researching dead ends. Now, researching dead ends is expected: not every idea that we get here is going to work out the way we picture it. We can keep those dead ends to a minimum by waiting until we have enough material to generate a working theory that not only makes sense, but that a sizable portion of the theory can be backed up by some data, rather than just logical reasoning. Logic carries us a long way, but we can't depend on it to carry us ALL the way. Simply put, I don't think that we have processed all the facts that we know yet. We have discussed much of what we know, but there are leads that some of us have started to dig up and will be following up on, that hopefully, in the next few weeks, will give us more information- perhaps enough data to get going on this working theory. Even these new leads might not be enough get started. I really like the idea that Russ presented: placing an ad in the magazine. It makes sense, and could turn up some leads from very unlikely sources. Remember though, I'm that American fellow that doesn't know ANYTHING about overseas machines. If there is more information here than I can see (and there very well might be), then go on and make a working theory up and we can all decide if it seems to be too full of holes, or if it seems solid enough to proceed. >> But i insist in using a Philips lighthouse, umm, 'lighting device'!!! >> If you can buy a lighthouse on ebay, then I will send you a Philips bulb for it. I suppose the lighthouse might come cheap, but it's going to be the shipping that really gets ya... Adam 901 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Oct 28, 2002 3:43am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Has enough new information been gathered since > last spring (when there was that flurry of minds > at work) to have another working theory? Or is this > not "another" theory, but just adding to what's there, > or filling in blanks that the theory did not cover? > If a working theory of Signetics/Elektor/Interton/Arcadia > evolution is decided upon too early it could end up wasting > our time researching dead ends. Now, researching dead > ends is expected: not every idea that we get here is going > to work out the way we picture it. > We can keep those dead ends to a minimum by waiting until > we have enough material to generate a working theory that > not only makes sense, but that a sizable portion of the > theory can be backed up by some data, rather than just > logical reasoning. Logic carries us a long way, > but we can't depend on it to carry us ALL the way. > > Simply put, I don't think that we have processed all > the facts that we know yet. We have discussed much > of what we know, but there are leads that some > of us have started to dig up and will be following > up on, that hopefully, in the next few weeks, will > give us more information- perhaps enough data to > get going on this working theory. Even these new > leads might not be enough get started. OK, let's do the following: I will write up a list of companies, stating what we know about them and what they did. maybe we will find some sort of 'proof' in such a list. What makes me especially wonder is the transfer of software licensing. We know, for example, that many Interton games were originally released as tapes for the Elektor computer. What is my personal 'missing link' is, how that transfer was organized. Bieling said in the interview he was at Interton once to sign a contract. But who 'pulled the wires' in the back? Did Interton simply call and say, 'Hey, nice tape you have. Who wrote it? We want to buy the software!'; or was there a 'Big Coordinator' who might have evolved into UA LTD? The aspect of hardware developement is -in my eyes- known enough to make sense. Of course, we do not know who designed that crappy Interton sound add-on, or if Interton maybe really took part in the developement of the 2636 chip (rather they didn't). But the general way of the road seems clear to me. See my document-to-come... But the fun part is the software. And the case design of the Polybrain/ Palladium, btw. Why does that sucker look so similar to the Interton case? And who the heck is 'Polybrain'? Another of those address-less, never heard of companies. Were they 'early UA'? Wrer they 'Interton in disguise'? See how i'm locating one hole after the other in my chain of arguments. And yes, we have a lot of facts, and will fit them in. But we have to look for 'weak parts' in any theory, and try to make them more solid. Remember when Stefan asked what to ask the Interton T?rck guys? i just try to find some of these questions... Next question: Why had early Interton machines 'disguised' chips? Was it just Signetics' original names, renamed later on order by Philips? Or were they considered 'custom chips' produced for Interton? > I really like the idea that Russ presented: placing > an ad in the magazine. It makes sense, and could turn > up some leads from very unlikely sources. I'm working on that with Stefan. We will tell you when we have results... > > Remember though, I'm that American fellow that > doesn't know ANYTHING about overseas machines. ... always those clueless americans ... (very old and very wrong german opinion of americans; but i really could not resist to use it here ;-) please don't start a flame war now :-/ ) > If there is more information here than I can see (and > there very well might be), then go on and make a working > theory up and we can all decide if it seems to be too > full of holes, or if it seems solid enough to proceed. Well, i'll make that list. Then we can discuss it... > > >> > But i insist in using a Philips lighthouse, umm, > 'lighting device'!!! > >> > > If you can buy a lighthouse on ebay, then I will > send you a Philips bulb for it. I suppose the > lighthouse might come cheap, but it's going to be the > shipping that really gets ya... > > Adam Well, we let it stand where it is; maybe we can install a webcam? BTW, something similar really happened some day: A quite expensive car, offered for cheap money. The drawback was: it was located on an off-shore island (with a lighthouse!) and could only drive some 30 metres back and forth. You would have to hire a helicopter to rescue it... -mc 902 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Mon Oct 28, 2002 10:29am Subject: Re: Subject: Screenshots; was: Re: Memories kiwigame > Message: 4 >Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2002 09:14:56 -0700 > From: "Adam Trionfo" > Subject: Screenshots; was: Re: Memories > [Here's a link to Interton pics] > http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_games.htm considering he did author the DP Guide's Interton section). > > I did a search with Google looking for other screenshots- I'm interested > seeing "Shoot Out" by Choi Andrew. Hey, and that Radofin system looks > rather cool. I looks way better than the Aracadia 2001. And, as we all > know, the better a system looks, the better a system is. I've got a page with screenshots / boxes for the Fountain/Acetronic versions of this system here: (Includes ShootOut) http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/fountain.htm .mike If anyones interested in trading for boxed/loose Fountain/Acetronic games I've got PILES of spares... 903 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Mon Oct 28, 2002 10:12pm Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin stefanpiasecki company they will fill in some details [...] > > I did try finding Andrew Choi at one time without much success. > > Russ There's is an Andrew Choi listed in the Hong Kong yellow pages. Anyone able to speak Chinese or willing to disturb and old man??? Stefan 904 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Oct 29, 2002 4:51am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> >> OK, let's do the following: I will write up a list of companies, stating what we know about them and what they did. maybe we will find some sort of 'proof' in such a list. >> That is an excellent way to start. If the list is in a simple outline or similar format, then anyone can glance through it as it is posted and add (or subtract) with proof. Even if no proof is provided, we can talk about why something is or in not on the list. >> What makes me especially wonder is the transfer of software licensing. [.] >> In the beginning I had the impression that this licensing was more of a "we like what you made, so we're gonna take it and make it too." I suppose that's partially the "quick-buck theory." I thought of it as more of a copyright infringement than a real licensing agreement. That probably did happen sometimes (it's inevitable on all system, isn't it?), but tracing the primary source of the hardware/software to where the systems ended up in the world (through licensing) would be a neat trick. I've never seen info like this presented in a tree fashion, but that seems like it would be a good way to present this data. With one quick look, you could look at the tree and see where one system "hangs." For example, Signetics at the top, then two branches to two other German (?) companies who perhaps branch to two others non-German (?) companies and on and on. Signetics at the top of the tree is just a guess ; we're still not sure who the original licensor was- so Signetics is possible, but it is still considered an unknown (am I right on this?). >> The aspect of hardware developement is -in my eyes- known enough to make sense. Of course, we do not know who designed that crappy Interton sound add-on, or if Interton maybe really took part in the developement of the 2636 chip (rather they didn't). But the general way of the road seems clear to me. See my document-to-come... >> Looking forward to your document. I bet that there will be some surprises. I'm sort of caught in a river here, and just going with the flow. I won't spot any errors unless they are blatant, so we need some discussion group members to really participate in this matter. >> But the fun part is the software. >> And THAT is a major mess. The list, including name changes, has over 300 titles, yet there are only about fifty different ROMS. I suggest picking a few companies and starting with them. If the whole mess is tackled at once it will be chaos trying to figure out what goes where. >> >> Next question: Why had early Interton machines 'disguised' chips? Was it just Signetics' original names, renamed later on order by Philips? Or were they considered 'custom chips' produced for Interton? >> That is curious. Anyone know of any other instance of this in non-Arcadia/Interton circles. I've seen blank chips and chips with the numbers etched off because they were unauthorized hardware. This is a rather unexplored area. The group knows about its existence, but why it was done had not really been explored (to my knowledge). >> >I really like the idea that Russ presented: placing >an ad in the magazine. It makes sense, and could turn >up some leads from very unlikely sources. I'm working on that with Stefan. We will tell you when we have results... >> Definitely. >> ... always those clueless americans ... (very old and very wrong german opinion of americans; but i really could not resist to use it here ;-) please don't start a flame war now :-/ ) >> You didn't have to explain yourself. I knew that it was a joke, but I suppose it could offend someone. I laughed, though. >> Well, we let it stand where it is; maybe we can install a webcam? >> Are we talking about a webcam so that some of us can talk to each other? Or is this some reference to a joke I missed-out on? Adam 905 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Oct 29, 2002 5:32am Subject: Re: Subject: Screenshots; was: Re: Memories atrionfo >> I've got a page with screenshots / boxes for the Fountain/Acetronic versions of this system here: (Includes ShootOut) http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/fountain.htm >> Nice job, Mike!. I visited this site briefly when Ward added "Obscure Pixels" to the links page (and mentioned it briefly in a posting, I think). At the time I wasn't interested in the system: this just goes to show what a little passing time will do. Adam 906 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Oct 29, 2002 5:45am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> There's is an Andrew Choi listed in the Hong Kong yellow pages. Anyone able to speak Chinese or willing to disturb and old man??? >> I don't speak Chinese, but I bet Andrew speaks at least a little English. He did, after all, put a bit of English hidden in his ROMs. Also, I doubt that he is an old man; he probably programmed these games in his twenties (like many programmers of that time period). Maybe he is (presumption alert!) between forty and fifty. I had okay results reaching people with the phone for Astrocade information. Names that sounded uncommon I called (otherwise I had hundreds of numbers to sift through). With most of the calls I left messages and no one called back. On occasion I would reach the person and they would say something like, "I have no idea what Bally or an Astrocade is." Once, though I did get a return call, and that turned out to be interesting. Like many people from the game programming community, he was rather shocked that anyone remembered anything that he wrote over twenty years ago. But he wasn't so shocked that he wouldn't talk about it. Since he lived semi-close to a computer show I even met him. Pretty good fun. So, is Andrew Choi a common name? It sure sounds like it could be. Don't we know of any programmers with an odd last name like mine? That sure would narrow the search down. Adam 907 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Oct 29, 2002 5:54am Subject: Arcadia Controller Buttons- Some, None or All? atrionfo I have two questions about the Arcadia controller: 1) Is there an Arcadia game that doesn't use any controller buttons? If not, what is the game(s) that use the least amount of buttons? 2) What game uses all the buttons on the controller? If there is no such game, which one(s) uses the most? Adam 908 From: "mc71de" Date: Tue Oct 29, 2002 7:23am Subject: Re: Arcadia Controller Buttons- Some, None or All? mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I have two questions about the Arcadia controller: [...] > 2) What game uses all the buttons on the > controller? If there is no such game, > which one(s) uses the most? well... maybe not exactly an answer to your question... Video Dictionary on the Palladium uses not only all 'Arcadia' buttons, but it also uses (and needs!) all of the extra 'Palladium' buttons. But it is not a game, anyway... -mc 909 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Oct 29, 2002 8:10am Subject: Re: Arcadia Controller Buttons- Some, None or All? atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> [...] >2) What game uses all the buttons on the >controller? If there is no such game, >which one(s) uses the most? well... maybe not exactly an answer to your question... Video Dictionary on the Palladium uses not only all 'Arcadia' buttons, but it also uses (and needs!) all of the extra 'Palladium' buttons. But it is not a game, anyway... >> I was thinking about carts that have been dumped- games in particular, so that I can look at the code. Adam 910 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Oct 30, 2002 3:22am Subject: Re: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots stefanpiasecki > What was that thing? > A 'test shot' to see if people liked that design (and they didn't, > so it was canned)? > Or a 'prototype production' that was sold off for low prices to > Tchibo, something like the commodore c65 systems years later? (No, > these were not sold to Tchibo...) > And finally: Has anyone an idea *when exactly* the Tchibo 'Tele- > Fever' was sold? If things have not changed too much from then to > now, it should boil down to an 'in-shop' time of half a year > maximum... Ha, this is where I can fill the gap because I had the TVG and remember very well the Tele-Fever to appear in shops. The Tele-Fever hit the shops around Christmas 1983. I got my TVG in late 1982 and I remember that I already had it for some time when the TF arrived, so it was rather 83 than 82 (got my C64 in early 84 I guess). There also was a poster available, basically the box design in large. And it said TVG 2000-compatible - probably to help boosting sales bacause back then we were very aware of the fact that the number of games available for a system is essential. I also remember that the kids in my school were excited by the design and I hoped that some may buy one so that I could swap games, but noone did. As for the question of what it was: I guess that Schmid was behind it. And I believe that it was a regular design - just the end of a long row of design variations, product names and licenses. Getting stuffs into chains and as we call it "Nebenm,rkte" (unusual markets) is typical daily work, so why should Schmid not have been aware of the new design and brought it to Eduscho, knowing that this could also affect sales of their regular TVG games. With my experience today I'd say that Eduscho surely didn't risk anything. I bet they just bought about 5-10 for each shop - and maybe the total number of units produced was about 5000? I heard some people say that the machines also appeared in Scandinavia - maybe German overstocks? I never heard about any other places where this specific design was sold. 'btw, I may sell a fully working TF soon. Stefan 911 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Oct 30, 2002 11:03pm Subject: Re: Arcadia Controller Buttons- Some, None or All? stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I have two questions about the Arcadia controller: > > 1) Is there an Arcadia game that doesn't use any > controller buttons? If not, what is the game(s) > that use the least amount of buttons? > > 2) What game uses all the buttons on the > controller? If there is no such game, > which one(s) uses the most? Well, Space Attack uses only the centered buttons as a fire device. The game with most buttons needed to use is surely Baseball or Ocean- Battle. Ah, and the Video-Dictionary uses them all, but that's on the other side of town in Palladium-land. Stefan 912 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:31am Subject: Re: Arcadia Controller Buttons- Some, None or All? atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> Well, Space Attack uses only the centered buttons as a fire device. The game with most buttons needed to use is surely Baseball or Ocean- Battle. Ah, and the Video-Dictionary uses them all, but that's on the other side of town in Palladium-land. >> Thanks for the references. I used the MESS emulator yesterday and discovered that Space Attack used very few buttons, so what you have to say confirms that remark. Although, today when I played the game again (after reading the docs- I'm so glad we've begun to type those in!) it uses more buttons than I thought. Controller one controls the freeze/unfreeze of the game (which is a nice feature). After playing it on the emulator, it seems that there are six moving object that appear to be sprites on the screen at once: your ship, your missile, two enemies, two enemy missiles. The Arcadia is limited to four sprites, but these aforementioned objects all move smoothly. I suspect that two of the objects are being moved one character space at a time (i.e. two objects are just redefined characters), but it sure doesn't look like they are jumping around. Also, many times when I fire at an enemy, the shot appears to hit, but nothing happens; I suspect that the enemy about-to-be-fired missile destroyed my shot. Could someone else please take a look at this and let me know what you think? Adam From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Digest Number 133 Date: 30 Oct 2002 08:33:46 -0000 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ There is 1 message in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Re: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots From: "Stefan Piasecki" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 16:22:32 -0000 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Subject: Re: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots > What was that thing? > A 'test shot' to see if people liked that design (and they didn't, > so it was canned)? > Or a 'prototype production' that was sold off for low prices to > Tchibo, something like the commodore c65 systems years later? (No, > these were not sold to Tchibo...) > And finally: Has anyone an idea *when exactly* the Tchibo 'Tele- > Fever' was sold? If things have not changed too much from then to > now, it should boil down to an 'in-shop' time of half a year > maximum... Ha, this is where I can fill the gap because I had the TVG and remember very well the Tele-Fever to appear in shops. The Tele-Fever hit the shops around Christmas 1983. I got my TVG in late 1982 and I remember that I already had it for some time when the TF arrived, so it was rather 83 than 82 (got my C64 in early 84 I guess). There also was a poster available, basically the box design in large. And it said TVG 2000-compatible - probably to help boosting sales bacause back then we were very aware of the fact that the number of games available for a system is essential. I also remember that the kids in my school were excited by the design and I hoped that some may buy one so that I could swap games, but noone did. As for the question of what it was: I guess that Schmid was behind it. And I believe that it was a regular design - just the end of a long row of design variations, product names and licenses. Getting stuffs into chains and as we call it "Nebenm,rkte" (unusual markets) is typical daily work, so why should Schmid not have been aware of the new design and brought it to Eduscho, knowing that this could also affect sales of their regular TVG games. With my experience today I'd say that Eduscho surely didn't risk anything. I bet they just bought about 5-10 for each shop - and maybe the total number of units produced was about 5000? I heard some people say that the machines also appeared in Scandinavia - maybe German overstocks? I never heard about any other places where this specific design was sold. 'btw, I may sell a fully working TF soon. Stefan ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________ 913 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:02pm Subject: Re: The Elektor book - english version atrionfo >> I plan to see if I can send for this book from the local library, but the chances are VERY slim >> I got the response back from the local library about the English version of the book. Here is exactly what they say, "Only 4 European libraries own this. They do not lend." Well, that's a setback. Here, again, are the libraries that DO have this book: EU BRITISH LIBR UKM EU CAMBRIDGE UNIV CUD EU TRINITY COL, DUBLIN ERD EU UNIV OF OXFORD EQO Anyone live close to one of these? Adam 914 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 7:46pm Subject: Lift-Off, we have a lift off!!!! (Bring her to the sea, Mr. Murdoch) stefanpiasecki Hi guys, I am very short of time at the moment, but things are moving fast now: not only do I have a direct contact to Mr. Bieling now, I also got knowledge of several people who have working "Spielcomputer"- hardware and all the games and tools on tapes. Also Elektor is more than willing to help us. This morning I received 5 mails regarding this matter. In addition, yesterday I received a bunch of Poppy MPT-03 games, including Boxing!!! This was one of the games that we thought was only availbale on the Ormatu and wasn't dumped yet, right? Those games were the original Australian boxes, just with transparent German stickers on them and nicely done German manuals. I now have another MPT-03 system and some games to sell or trade soon. But there's more to it: I also received some TeleFever-games: there were at least two different versions of manuals. Normal ones with only the game descriptions and different ones with an added TCHIBO- warranty card. So it was Tchibo, not Eduscho who distributed them. Over the weekend I will summarize all this. Ah, can't I make a full-time job out of this? Stefan 915 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 8:10pm Subject: Interview stefanpiasecki Hi, can you guys please help me with setting up a list of questions for both Mr. Bieling and Mr. Holmes? Also for the Elektor publishers. Mr. Bieling is even living close to my home - unbelievable. Stefan 916 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 31, 2002 10:46pm Subject: Re: The Elektor book - english version mc71de Hi Adam, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > >> > I plan to see if I can send for this book from the local library, but the > chances are VERY slim > >> > > I got the response back from the local library about the English version of > the book. Here is exactly what they say, "Only 4 European libraries own > this. They do not lend." > > Well, that's a setback. Here, again, are the libraries that DO have this > book: > > EU BRITISH LIBR UKM > EU CAMBRIDGE UNIV CUD > EU TRINITY COL, DUBLIN ERD > EU UNIV OF OXFORD EQO > > Anyone live close to one of these? > > Adam ... and #5 University Library Hannover, germany. According to their info, i can get this book via inter-library loan. I will try this, but please allow for a few weeks to proceed. Thanks, -mc 917 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 3:01am Subject: Re: The Elektor book - english version atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> ... and #5 University Library Hannover, germany. According to their info, i can get this book via inter-library loan. I will try this, but please allow for a few weeks to proceed. Thanks, >> What is a few weeks, when we have been poking along for years without it? If you do get this book, and are able to scan it, I wonder where we can store it online? I don't think that the file section of the discussion group will be large enough to hold it all. Any ideas? Adam 918 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 3:22am Subject: Lift-Off, we have a lift off!!!! (Bring her to the sea, Mr. Murdoch) atrionfo Stefan wrote: >> things are moving fast now: not only do I have a direct contact to Mr. Bieling now, I also got knowledge of several people who have working "Spielcomputer"- hardware and all the games and tools on tapes. Also Elektor is more than willing to help us. This morning I received 5 mails regarding this matter. >> When it rains, it pours! My good goodness! You've found "several people" with working hardware. Where did you find these guys? (Don't answer, I know you've been looking hard- it's just that, well, finding one would have been extra-neat, finding two would have been ultra-neat, finding several people breaks the neat-scale). They have "all the games and tools on tapes." Uh-oh. Now we just have to get those to binary images. >> In addition, yesterday I received a bunch of Poppy MPT-03 games, including Boxing!!! [...] >> Over my head again. You are speaking English, but I'm lost in America Arcadia-land again. >> But there's more to it: I also received some TeleFever-games: there were at least two different versions of manuals. Normal ones with only the game descriptions and different ones with an added TCHIBO- warranty card. So it was Tchibo, not Eduscho who distributed them. >> If I wanted to distract myself, I would read more about these other systems, but I've enough distractions already. I'm interested in the Interton (but will never be able to use one), and the Arcadia right now (my interest in the Astrocade is waning since all my systems keep dying). My 8-bit system of choice lately has been my Atari 800XL- not sure why (I guess Pitfall II turned me onto the Atari again). There are so many different systems in this Arcadia Group (that is what it's called, right?), that I need to concentrate on only part of it: looking at the whole picture to me is just too much headache. I'll wait for the summary report... if that's okay. The day before yesterday I was looking through the disassembled source-code for "Space Attack" and there are pieces missing from the puzzle that I would REALLY like to have. I've said this a few times, and I'll say it again- what the heck to some of those control blocks do? At that moment in time, when I was reading the disassembly, I wanted Arcadia Simple Monitor to be a REAL cartridge. Maybe one of these people that contact has been made with can shed some light (or a lighthouse with a Philips bulb?) on the 2637? One can only hope. >> Ah, can't I make a full-time job out of this? >> Sure, you don't need to work. Sell your car and your collection (!), and then live on crackers and water. That ought to do you for a little while... Adam 919 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 3:33am Subject: Tron and Arcadia atrionfo I saw all of Tron, from start to finish, yesterday for the first time. I never saw this as a kid, and so I guess I missed out. The movie is okay, and the effects are what save it, for the storyline is, well, not too believable (is it meant to be?). It does give one an inspiration and a sense of wonder though, I'll tell you that. Computers are cool, games are cool, and living above an arcade would be cool too. Let's see, how do I keep this posting on topic? Any of you see this movie in the theater, walk out and say to yourself, "I wanna program" or something along those lines? I've read quite a few stories online where people credit Tron for their interest in computers. Anyone around here feel that way? For me, it wasn't Tron, it was just that I wanted a computer. I don't know where I got the desire, but I had it. A kid in class had a Vic-20 (not that I ever saw it) and he said wonderful things about it (he was the class brain, and maybe that sold me on the idea of a computer?). Anyway, by the time I had saved enough money to get a Vic, the C64 had replaced it (though the Vic was still being sold, I think). Anyone get an Arcadia, or other system around (or before) this time period? @Stephan: I know that you got your Arcadia-group system early on. Was it a gift, or did you specifically request it? Adam 920 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 3:41am Subject: Space Attack - Energy Depletion Question atrionfo In Space Attack when your energy is depleted your ship explodes. Is there any way to slow the energy depletion down? There doesn't seem to be a correlation between shots fired, movement and energy depletion. Does the energy just run down at a steady pace (that is how it seems to me)? The reason I ask is that you have just enough time to shoot all the aliens on the screen before your energy runs out. Any veteran players out there that can offer a hint about this, or is this just the way it is played. Space Attack is a game after all, and maybe that's one of the games fun factors. Adam 921 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 4:03am Subject: Space Attack - Energy Depletion Question atrionfo >> The reason I ask is that you have just enough time to shoot all the aliens on the screen before your energy runs out. >> The only solution that I can find that gives you a comfortable margin of safety without needing to worry about energy running-out before all the aliens are destroyed is to shoot the aliens while they are still in formation. I hate to do that though because they are worth more points while they are flying down at your ship, or what the manual calls your "missile launcher." Thus far, using the emulator I have gotten to the fourth formation of ships, and those little guys start to move fast! This is one of those games that I like because it is so simple to understand: move your ship, shot the guys. That's it. I'm playing for points, but I'm also trying to get to another level. Adam 922 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 7:42am Subject: Re: Tron and Arcadia stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I saw all of Tron, from start to finish, yesterday for the first time. I > never saw this as a kid, and so I guess I missed out. The movie is okay, > and the effects are what save it, for the storyline is, well, not too > believable (is it meant to be?). It does give one an inspiration and a > sense of wonder though, I'll tell you that. Computers are cool, games are > cool, and living above an arcade would be cool too. Hm, I agree still today Tron could make people think this way. I believe it is one of those all-time fairy tales like the Wizard of Oz, that will always influence people whatever the time and circumstances are. > @Stephan: I know that you got your Arcadia-group system early on. Was it a > gift, or did you specifically request it? Well, I wanted what all boys of my age (I was born in 1969, yeah) wanted - no, girls became fashinable later - a video-game. I believe that it was 1979 or 1980 when I first saw a Space Invaders cabinet on holidays in Austria. It was very interesting. Then around 1982 almost everybody got gaming systems. Some Intellivisone but most of them the 2600. Playing was cool, it was like playing a movie (it happened on a TV, right?). So of course me and my brother wanted one, too. Just that our parents were quite conservative about these things and... the 2600 was expensive. So after we kept on begging our parents bought the TVG. Our first game was Crazy Gobbler, later followed Space Attack, Space Missions and other games, Jump Bug and Spiders being the last games we bought. The games weren't really worse than the 2600 games of that time. Games like Jump Bug even had crisper graphics than the VCS - just compare Space Attack to Space Invaders or Spiders to Centipede etc. It wasn't too bad - the only problem was that all the others had partners to swap games with. We obviously didn't. The coolest thing I remember was buying Space Squadron. It was 99 DM (about $50) so it was not easily affordable for a 12 year old. It was the Hanimex version. We knew the name was the same, but the box was different, we also didn't know the Hanimex system. So it was a wild guess, a shot into the dark and we bought it. As the case is a bit different from the TVG carts (the TVG carts have an additonal small plastic nose), we were shocked as it didn't fit, but then we figured out that we would just have to remove a small piece of plastic on the TVG-system and everything was perfect. By the way: the MPT-03 system I was referring to is also ROM- compatible with the Arcadia, so it wasn't really off topic. Like the Palladium it mostly features games we know on the Arcadia but also some which are not available on any other system, like Crazy Climber and Boxing. Stefan 923 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 7:44am Subject: Re: Space Attack - Energy Depletion Question stefanpiasecki There's no trick, it just runs out. But if you are good, you can play quite some time. By the way, the game gets much slower once all aliens were killed and there are only you and one or two aliens left. Why is this? Any idea? Stefan 924 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 7:46am Subject: Re: Space Attack - Energy Depletion Question stefanpiasecki the > fourth formation of ships, and those little guys start to move fast! This > is one of those games that I like because it is so simple to understand: > move your ship, shot the guys. That's it. I'm playing for points, but I'm > also trying to get to another level. This is one of the games that I spent most time with in the summer of 1983 - instead of learning Latin - oh dear. Because the game was always a bit different, not the game itself, but the action etc. There's always something moving. Stefan 925 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 5:14pm Subject: Re: 2650 based computer grumpfix oboissea wrote: >Second: I have a 2650 based computer in my site. I have not much >information about it, but it could be interesting. Have a look here: >http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=45 > Any chance to get good pictures of the boards (chip ids and wiring readable), keyboard and dumps of the bios/software? Peter PS: waiting interestedly for some "colour studio2" pictures 926 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Nov 1, 2002 5:28pm Subject: Re: 2650 based computer mc71de Hi Peter, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: > oboissea wrote: > > >Second: I have a 2650 based computer in my site. I have not much > >information about it, but it could be interesting. Have a look here: > >http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=45 > > > Any chance to get good pictures of the boards (chip ids and wiring > readable), > keyboard and dumps of the bios/software? > > Peter > > PS: waiting interestedly for some "colour studio2" pictures ... and a 1864 data sheet, eh? we might, maybe, be lucky. Cannot promise, but am working hard. Repaired an ELF by telepathia, so that guy owes me a favour :-) Maybe we'll meet at Cosmacelf-Y!group? These guys seem to be made out of just the same wood as you... -mc 927 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 4:53am Subject: Catching up, and some reminders commie_fan Hi all. I'm catching up on posts now (up to #859 so far), and will "pull a Stephan" and post now, before reading everything else. (No offense! I say that, smiling!) You guys were discussing the motives for making the early Arcadia predecessor systems, from the point of view of Philips. To some degree, we don't need to guess. Remember that, some months back, I had made references to Ed Averett's interview? Which discussed his involvement with the Odyssey 2 machine, his connections to Intel, the lawsuits over clones of Pac-Man type games, and much more. In it, he says that Philips was f***ing up, right and left, and hurting more than helping. They never "got it" when he was involved, and Intel declined to get involved in the Odyssey 3 console's development, so Philips went to Signetics, and had them (apparently) upgrade their existing machine -- I wish we had better dates on all of this, so we didn't have to guess, educated or not -- into the second (third, if you count Pongs) generation of machines. At the time, I was told I could not copy the interview and post it here. But James Hague, the interviewer, has it online now. I think I put up a link to that, back in July or so? You guys may want to read it all again, as it fills some significant gaps. (Plus, its a fun read.) So in a sense, the earlier "TV home computer" type machine was aimed at the early "build your own computer at home" type crowd, with the intention of selling lots of chips to what was likely felt to be a huge, potential market. Cost being a huge factor, as MC mentioned, put big limits on the amount of people that could / would want to be involved, as did the "assemble it yourself" requirement. And the "What does it do? Not much, really" reality... only engineering types would really appreciate it, and the average member of the public most likely could not see the point. At least, not enough to pay for it. But just a few years later, costs were down, "nobody" at home built their own computers any more, and now Atari and others had made big inroads with pre-assembled, cartridge-programmable game machines. Arcade games like "Space Invaders" had caused coin shortages in Japan, "Pac-Man" was (then or about to) become hugely profitable, game magazines were starting to be published, and so on. So in a sense, Philips was playing catch-up, reacting to various things that were then happening. And I for one can't blame them... the "giant list of classic game programmers" web site that James Hague runs -- or maybe it was "I.C. When"? -- once ran a quote of an IBM executive, from the mid-1900's, who said he could foresee a global market for up to FOUR computers. But that was when computers took up a building, and could probably heat up a small city, with all of the vacuum tubes (valves) they used. How soon things changed? In a relatively short time period, you have the whole global electronics industry going from "maybe four computers globally" to "only engineers will want a computer at home, and they will want to understand every part inside it" to "we can make a mass-market product, using this technology to amuse young boys, and their parents will pay for it all" to today's assumption that any household with a child in it, needs a TV and a game machine -- the latest, naturally -- if for no other reason, than to act as a babysitter. I can't blame Philips, or anyone else back then, for not foreseeing all of that? But that's part of the attraction to this research-as-a- hobby thing... for me, anyway. In the space of one half-a-lifetime, I have seen software for the Apple II being sold in toy stores inside a zip-lock plastic bag, with black-and-white, hand-drawn artwork, to showing my four-year old nephew how to play CD-ROM based games on a modern computer, with full speech synthesis output, photo-realistic graphics, and simple "mouse" input capabilitis. That's amazing, if you think about it? Which most people don't, except for guys like us. Back to catching up on postings, now... -- Ward Shrake -- 928 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 5:03am Subject: [OT]Odyssey programming info; was:Re: Arcadia Monitor program commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > I'm not saying that the game > machines WERE created to make > quick cash, but we can not rule > that possibility out (especially > since early posting on this group > talk about how the machines looks > like they were assembled by monkeys). That's partially true -- the monkey bit, I mean. The very earliest machines, such as the Palladium, showed HUGE amounts of quality in overall construction. The cart circuit boards were all fiberglass- reinforced, for instance, with gold plating on 100% of the traces, double the amount of through-hole "via's" they needed (for more redundancy / quality assurance, apparently) and all of them had chip sockets installed, as well. It wasn't until later machines came along, that the build quality dropped to "barely functional" levels. My guess on this is that, when initially marketed as an expandable computer, at a high cost to the end-user, quality had to be high. When marketed later as a closed-box, pre-assembled, mass-market toy, build quality didn't have to be all that great; low cost was much more important. But I'm still catching up on postings, so ignore me, if that's wrong or old news. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 929 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 5:31am Subject: Re: Signetics Instructor 50 (2650) Computer commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Just checking- does anyone think > that the Signetics Instructor 50 > computer is off topic? After I > posted the first two pieces of > information about the computer, > I realized just how far away the > Instructor 50 is from a gaming > computer. It has a 2650, but it > doesn't use a 2636/2637. Any > objections to these postings? > > Adam Not from me. Sometimes one step backwards gives you two or three forwards, so I consider it both on-topic and even interesting, within the context of the rest of the stuff discussed on this message group. I'll even congratulate you on the research you did to dig it up, given that it fills an important blank in the "family tree" as it were. And incidentally, the 640 bytes of RAM *may* be accurate, after all, Adam. I won't rule it out, just yet, for the "Instructor 50" machine, although I'd likely question it for later machines. While 640 kilobytes is obviously wrong -- FAR too much -- for this time period, and while 640 individual bytes isn't an even multiple of 2, it is an even multiple of 128, which is itself an even multiple of 2. In other words, five 128-byte RAM chips would equal 640 bytes, or ten 64-byte RAM chips, or other multiples of smallish chip sizes, perhaps even mixes like one 512-byte RAM with a 128-byte RAM chip? The idea that 512 bytes were already supplied on-board, with socket(s) for 128 more later, makes sense to me given that older chips always become lower in cost, and expansion capability is always a good sales pitch. Didn't the Atari 2600 machine have only 64- or 128-bytes of RAM? I guess what this "Instructor 50" really shows us is that thinking in terms of kilobytes was then not quite technologically and/or financially very feasible? Much like thinking in megabytes was a pipe dream, back in the days of the Commodore 64 home computer, or thinking in gigabytes was a pipe dream, when early IBM compatibles had physically-large hard drives that held only 5 or 10 megabytes. Recall also that your research said the "Instructor 50" allegedly only had two kilobytes of ROM easily available, which seems to be a fairly good match with 640 bytes of RAM, percentage-wise, for a machine that was intended to teach students how to program, etc.? -- Ward Shrake -- 930 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 6:01am Subject: Hey, there, Commie_Fan atrionfo Ward, It's been a while since we've seen you around these parts. Some neat conversations have been going on around here (as you can see). I'm looking forward to read your input on many of them. I hope that you are not logging on at a library computer, that's just a half-an hour a day (right?), certainly not enough time to respond to so many new postings. Remember too, it's better to play catch-up, then to look at this Arcadia discussion group and see no more than a handful of new messages. This is all such neat stuff! Adam 931 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 6:31am Subject: Help! mc71de I cannot read the messages via the web interface at the moment :-( Is it my fault, or is yahoo on strike? -mc 932 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 6:45am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > Hi all, > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" > wrote: > > mc71de wrote: > > (snip) > > A puzzler, isn't it? We're all > > full of "maybe," and "I think." > > This, in one way makes me smile > > because we've learned not to > > state these theories ad facts. Definitely a good thing, IMHO! > In my feeling, we are at a point > where we have processed all the > facts we know. No offense, but I disagree. You guys are all forgetting bits and pieces of the puzzle, and are asking for info that we've had in a pretty solid form, for months now. Different bits, for different guys, but you are all "re-inventing the wheel" to some extent. I think one of my primary advantages (ha!) in remembering more of the individual bits and pieces, is that I had to write up the summary in semi-linear form, over and over again, daily, for the few-months-old DPCG #7 Collectors Guide article. In so doing, it was sort of burned into my head's internal EPROMs, whether I liked it or not. The reading, without the continual writing (in total) puts you guys at a bit of a disadvantage, I think. (If having a life is a disadvantage!?) > So it is time to make up a > 'working theory', check if > it makes sense (if it does, > it might be wrong in this > case...) and try to find > more facts to validate or > falsify our theory. Definitely the way to go, but I suspect we'll be doing it, over and over again, not just once. Too many companies, doing too many things that they had not planned to do, but did out of reaction to things going on around them, then, that we may or may not currently be aware of. As we find out more about the causes, and when they happened, we will inevitably find out more about the relation of the effects. As I think I once said, this is all a bit like figuring out how a game of billiards took place, working backwards from where the balls ended up, to what balls hit what other balls, in what order, step-by- step. In other words, it is basically what the military reverently and habitually referred to as a "cluster-f**k". As Adam said in a prior post (I'm still catching up, by the way), it is a good idea for those serious about figuring this stuff all out, to review what we already know. Start with the write-up in the Digital Press Collectors Guide, as he mentioned; that's a good overview of (almost) everything. The FAQ on my Arcadia 2001 web site is another good item to review carefully. And the links, on both this message board and my web site, all contain valuable, related info. -- Ward Shrake -- 933 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 7:34am Subject: Re: Hey, there, Commie_Fan commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Ward, > > It's been a while since we've > seen you around these parts. > Some neat conversations have > been going on around here (as > you can see). I'm looking > forward to read your input > on many of them. Yup, there has been. I'm glad MC is around; the "new blood" helped to pump the nearly-dead group's interest level up. (Although I'm assuming there are more lurkers than writers, at the moment, since only three or four-ish guys are posting regularly?) And as Adam said, if I recall correctly, everyone was sort of burnt-out, after all that hard work from months ago, and it looks like the rest did us all good. > I hope that you are not logging > on at a library computer, that's > just a half-an hour a day (right?), > certainly not enough time to > respond to so many new postings. I'll fill the group in on what's going on in my personal life, a bit later, so they'll understand what that comment is all about... Adam and a few others are already "in the know" but that doesn't help the rest of you figure out the big change in my habits, I'd imagine? > Remember too, it's better to play > catch-up, then to look at this > Arcadia discussion group and see > no more than a handful of new > messages. This is all such neat > stuff! > > Adam To certain nerdy types like us, yes. :-) By the way, my seven-year old nephew is learning bad habits from me... he actually had his grandmother make him a "Mad Scientist" costume, for his "trick or treat-ing" this Halloween. (Yesterday.) How many uncles can claim to be subverting their nephews that much? :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 934 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 7:57am Subject: Re: Re: Hey, there, Commie_Fan tempest_2084 >>Although I'm assuming there are more lurkers than writers Lurk Lurk Lurk! :) Some of us just don't have much to say! :) Tempest > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" > wrote: > > Ward, > > > > It's been a while since we've > > seen you around these parts. > > Some neat conversations have > > been going on around here (as > > you can see). I'm looking > > forward to read your input > > on many of them. > > > Yup, there has been. I'm glad MC is around; the "new blood" helped to > pump the nearly-dead group's interest level up. (Although I'm > assuming there are more lurkers than writers, at the moment, since > only three or four-ish guys are posting regularly?) And as Adam said, > if I recall correctly, everyone was sort of burnt-out, after all that > hard work from months ago, and it looks like the rest did us all good. > > > > I hope that you are not logging > > on at a library computer, that's > > just a half-an hour a day (right?), > > certainly not enough time to > > respond to so many new postings. > > > I'll fill the group in on what's going on in my personal life, a bit > later, so they'll understand what that comment is all about... Adam > and a few others are already "in the know" but that doesn't help the > rest of you figure out the big change in my habits, I'd imagine? > > > > Remember too, it's better to play > > catch-up, then to look at this > > Arcadia discussion group and see > > no more than a handful of new > > messages. This is all such neat > > stuff! > > > > Adam > > > To certain nerdy types like us, yes. :-) > > By the way, my seven-year old nephew is learning bad habits from > me... he actually had his grandmother make him a "Mad Scientist" > costume, for his "trick or treat-ing" this Halloween. (Yesterday.) > How many uncles can claim to be subverting their nephews that much? > :-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert Tempest@... Http://www.atariprotos.com Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 935 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 8:30am Subject: Ward's (weird) personal life commie_fan This posting may seem grossly off-topic, but I think I sort of have to say this stuff, at this point, so that this group as a whole can understand why I used to habitually do things a certain way -- "pulling a Ward" and all that -- and why that is no longer true. I am now almost invisible, from the point of view of message postings here, and I'm sure my past public explanations do not explain it well? Please bear in mind that I'm not saying any of this stuff to freak anyone out, or to gain sympathy or anything like that. I'm just saying it to explain recent changes in the past, and why they must continue for the forseeable (hopefully, short-term) future. Ready? OK.... In short, I lost my apartment in August of this year, due to not having enough money to continue paying for it. This is because I have been unemployed or under-employed since 1998 or so; cause-and-effect. (Again, this isn't a cry for help, pity, etc. It's just the way things are, right now. I try to objectively see both pros and cons as a matter of self-trained habit, and do not feel sorry for myself, so it'd be silly for others to waste their time or resources, feeling sorry for me. Anyway, back to explaining stuff....) This situation once gave me lots of free time, to do things like "pulling-a-Ward" some months ago, but it definitely cost me in a financial sense, eventually. Something had to give, and that turned out to be the apartment I had lived in, these last dozen years. I spent the next six weeks living out of the back of my pick-up truck. I am now sort-of renting a spare room from my sister. (And looking for decent-paying day jobs, since acting work is more of a hobby than a job, in realistic terms of monetary income.) What happens next will depend on what job I get, and when, and I have little control over being able to predict that, obviously. Back in late August 2002, everything I then owned was either moved into a rented 10-foot-by-15-foot storage facility, sold, or thrown out. (I made nearly 100 small trips to the dumpster, getting rid of 12 years of accumulated items I no longer had space or interest in.) Frankly, I don't miss much of what is now gone. And I'm looking at some of the things that are now in my storage place, with a view to getting rid of them, too. Not so much because I need the money, but just because they don't seem to neatly fit into my current or planned life, any more. (But that's probably getting way too off-topic?) Adam's recent comment about Ward's using a library computer was a reference to that first six-weeks where I was literally living in my pick-up truck, with everything I owned being in storage. The only way I could then access the internet, was to go to the local public libraries. That was good for about one hour per day, per library, and with my own computer packed up in a storage place, there wasn't much I could do to contribute to this message board. I read, made a (very) few postings, and that was that. Now that I'm living in a semi-rented room, I have better computer access, but still not anything like it once was. To use my own computer, I have to wait till my sister's family goes to school and/or work, unplug their main computer box, and plug mine into their I/O devices. It is all that I have the room for, at present. And it is a pain in the butt, so I don't do it very often. (I'm using their computer just to read and post, right now.) Keep in mind that I'm supposed to be looking for a job now, not playing on the Internet, so even if I get the computer hooked up, I really don't have much time to "play" with it. Until I get a "real" job, I won't be able to get another place to live, of my own, and hook up my own computer, on a regular basis. (Probably months away?) Nor do I have any easy access to my archiving stuff, since it is all buried in storage somewhere now. (No, I didn't throw it out, but it would not be all that easy to find again, either, nor to drag it out and hook it up, etc, etc.) Hence my prior messages from some weeks ago, saying that I'm out of the archiving business, as it were, until things change, and that others will have to pick up the slack in that department, if the group wants to see things get done right away. Hopefully that all made sense, and didn't upset anyone, over-much? My perhaps over-developed sense of the abstract, and a decent sense of irony / humor / the absurdity of things, helped me to deal with all this in a positive way. To me, this was sort of like taking my retirement at mid-life, rather than at the end of my life. I don't regret that it happened, and as I said, don't feel sorry for myself. I think of this time, now, as sort of the half-way point, in this admittedly weird situation. I did the "living in a truck" thing for six weeks, and frankly, it was not all that bad. I no longer fear "homelessness"; that's one benefit, for a guy that doesn't mind "gambling" with life, since none of us "get out alive" anyway. As an abstract concept, "homelessness" is initially frightening, but for me, the reality of it wasn't horrible. Now, having zero money and no truck to sleep in would have sucked, big time, but since I had some little money live on, I just looked at it as sort of an extended camping trip, and it wasn't all that awful. (In parts, it was actually kind of nice... in a strange sort of way. Keep in mind, my life wasn't all that "normal" to begin with, for the last few years, so adapting to this wasn't one huge step, but many small increments.) Having all my core belongings in storage, helped me to enjoy the "time off"; I caught up on book reading, and so on. Not to mention knowing I had fewer objects to deal with later, so I won't be buried in random stuff at the next place, to the point where I can't get at anything I want to use. And of course, having everything put into storage, lets me see how much of it I actually miss over time, so I can plan better for later. (In two months, I have not had any desire to play my arcade cabinets, but wouldn't have minded having access to a few consoles, for example. I've found my formerly unused GameBoy to fill a nice gap!) Anyway, enough rambling. I'll drop the subject, unless someone else says or asks something about all this stuff? But feel free to just shrug and move back to the "ancient hardware" discussions, instead. -- Ward Shrake -- 936 From: Max '-mc' Clemens Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 9:22am Subject: Re: Ward's (weird) personal life mc71de Hi Ward, thanks for your open words. Indeed that was one of my (private) theories about what might have happened to you, and i can tell you that the others were much worse. So i am kind-of glad to hear what was going on. And i think many people need or want such a 'time-off', no TV, no phone, no computers, no nothing. Bad thing that you didn't have control over the situation, but i'm glad to hear that things seem to come 'into their rails' again. We all definitely will keep our fingers crossed for you, for finding a new job- if possible over-paid and only fun for you :-) blah blah blah... my english is -sadly- too bad that i could write up an emotionally overloaded best-wishes-for-the-future novel here, but i guess you get the point. Fortunately you weren't captured by outer-space aliens- the 'Bielefeld conspiracy' is generally considered a german thing, but you never know what THEIR plans are ;-) With the best wishes for your future life, -mc (oops, Adam... i almost wrote my full name here... didn't i yesterday explain to you that i *never* would do this ;-) ) Ward Shrake wrote: This posting may seem grossly off-topic, but I think I sort of have to say this stuff, at this point, so that this group as a whole can understand why I used to habitually do things a certain way -- "pulling a Ward" and all that -- and why that is no longer true. [lots of definitely on-topic stuff removed]Gesendet von http://mail.yahoo.de.M"chten Sie mit einem Gru  antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de. 937 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 9:26am Subject: Re: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: (snip) > As for the question of what it was: I guess that Schmid was behind > it. And I believe that it was a regular design - just the end of a > long row of design variations, product names and licenses. Getting > stuffs into chains and as we call it "Nebenm,rkte" (unusual markets) > is typical daily work, so why should Schmid not have been aware of > the new design and brought it to Eduscho, knowing that this could > also affect sales of their regular TVG games. > > With my experience today I'd say that Eduscho surely didn't risk > anything. I bet they just bought about 5-10 for each shop - and maybe > the total number of units produced was about 5000? I heard some > people say that the machines also appeared in Scandinavia - maybe > German overstocks? I never heard about any other places where this > specific design was sold. 'btw, I may sell a fully working TF soon. > > Stefan [Wild, irresponsible rumor-mongering mode ON] I like that idea, Stefan! I'm not sure I agree 100% with every detail -- such as Schmid being behind it -- but I like this idea, a lot. My take on it would be a step or two back, in terms of details, but with the core logic of it, still intact.... What if that cool-looking "Tele-Fever" plastic case design was a last- minute re-design, intended for wide release? Not only by the only company that actually released it, but by someone a step back from them... such as Philips or UA Ltd? Only one "late-comer" company adapted, just before everyone gave up on the game system, globally? That could explain why no one else did it -- it was too late in the product life-cycle for most licensees, but Tchibo's hardware effort apparently came out in 1983, later than most others, and they only released four carts anyway, before they also apparently "threw in the towel". In other words, this would be another one of those "best laid plans" that came too late, and that was changed after it was tried to be applied, and then was killed off entirely, when everything died off? That it wasn't intended this way; it just worked out this way? If someone upstream from them did it, that would explain why a company that only roasted coffee, apparently took such pains to do something that no one else did? And then turned around and abandoned it all, after only a minimal time on the market? Seems counter to the way most companies would want to work, let alone counter to the way we have been told this particular company generally operated? But it would make sense, if they just said "me too" in a hardware licensing sense, at the last minute, before even Philips and UA Ltd. apparently threw in the towel, and started writing Atari 2600 game conversions? What if that case design was originally intended to be the "next big thing" in terms of cool-looking systems, intended to compete with things like the redesigned Atari 2600 "Junior" or the 5200's styling, or things like that? Doesn't it sort of look like planned designs of that late 1982 / early 1983 era, by other companies? It does to me. Inside, this is just the standard stuff, with UA Ltd. etched into the circuit boards... so why couldn't the case be an "intended for all new licensees" redesign, pushed at the highest levels, a bit too late? The joystick being internal was odd, but it used standard parts. The system-lockout tab on the cart slot wasn't something that would have been "normal" in the earliest efforts; the idea was too new, then. Interesting. Very interesting. I think we're onto something, once again!? -- Ward Shrake -- 938 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 9:39am Subject: Re: Ward's (weird) personal life commie_fan Thanks for your vote of support. (Your English is fine; don't worry about it.) I'm confident things will work out, over time. Part of the reason I posted what I just did, when I did, was that (a) the situation has improved enough now that people aren't as likely to worry about it as they might have been inclined to, if I had just blurted it all out at the time I was first leaving my apartment, and that (b) with it being a mystery for so long, that as you've noted, people could probably dream up worst-case scenarios that were worse than the real thing. So the timing seemed right for me to sort of get it off my chest, just so we could sort of collectively shrug, and move on. Which is what seems to be happening, so that's good. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Max '-mc' Clemens wrote: > > Hi Ward, > thanks for your open words. Indeed that was one of my (private) theories about what might have happened to you, and i can tell you that the others were much worse. So i am kind-of glad to hear what was going on. And i think many people need or want such a 'time-off', no TV, no phone, no computers, no nothing. Bad thing that you didn't have control over the situation, but i'm glad to hear that things seem to come 'into their rails' again. We all definitely will keep our fingers crossed for you, for finding a new job- if possible over- paid and only fun for you :-) blah blah blah... my english is -sadly- too bad that i could write up an emotionally overloaded best-wishes- for-the-future novel here, but i guess you get the point. > Fortunately you weren't captured by outer-space aliens- the 'Bielefeld conspiracy' is generally considered a german thing, but you never know what THEIR plans are ;-) > With the best wishes for your future life, > -mc > (oops, Adam... i almost wrote my full name here... didn't i yesterday explain to you that i *never* would do this ;-) ) > Ward Shrake wrote: > This posting may seem grossly off-topic, but I think I sort of have > to say this stuff, at this point, so that this group as a whole can > understand why I used to habitually do things a certain way -- > "pulling a Ward" and all that -- and why that is no longer true. > > > [lots of definitely on-topic stuff removed] > > > > --------------------------------- > Gesendet von http://mail.yahoo.de. > M"chten Sie mit einem Gru  antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de. 939 From: Max '-mc' Clemens Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 10:16am Subject: Re: Re: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots mc71de Hi Ward, in general: ACK; but let me add a small but important detail: The non-food articles of Tchibo and Eduscho (they merged in the mid-90s, so it does not really matter which one or even both sold the TF), again: Their non-food articles always have been 'one-shot' actions. They buy a batch of shirts, bikes, radios, whatever; they apply their label to it and sell it off. When it's gone, it's gone. So a 'Tchibo-only' production would not make sense at all- too low a volume to gain even the cost of the 'new' case. Hence my theory that it might have been a test marketing, to see if people would like the 'new' case. But of course you're right: It was too late; none of the other companies would sell the new system. They sold the 'standard' as long as people would buy it, but didn't want to introduce a 'new' system. But imagine a Tele-Fever on a medium-height table, in front of a big tv, the player standing. Arcade at home! Cooolness at its best... -mc p.s.: sorry for this html message again, but the web interface still tells me i am no moderator... surprise! I still can post via the web interface, but cannot quote that way :-(( Ward Shrake wrote: [Wild, irresponsible rumor-mongering mode ON]I like that idea, Stefan! I'm not sure I agree 100% with every detail -- such as Schmid being behind it -- but I like this idea, a lot.My take on it would be a step or two back, in terms of details, but with the core logic of it, still intact....What if that cool-looking "Tele-Fever" plastic case design was a last-minute re-design, intended for wide release? Not only by the only company that actually released it, but by someone a step back from them... such as Philips or UA Ltd?Only one "late-comer" company adapted, just before everyone gave up on the game system, globally? That could explain why no one else did it -- it was too late in the product life-cycle for most licensees, but Tchibo's hardware effort apparently came out in 1983, later than most others, and they only released four carts anyway, before they also apparently "threw in the towel".In other words, this would be another one of those "best laid plans" that came too late, and that was changed after it was tried to be applied, and then was killed off entirely, when everything died off? That it wasn't intended this way; it just worked out this way?If someone upstream from them did it, that would explain why a company that only roasted coffee, apparently took such pains to do something that no one else did? And then turned around and abandoned it all, after only a minimal time on the market? Seems counter to the way most companies would want to work, let alone counter to the way we have been told this particular company generally operated? But it would make sense, if they just said "me too" in a hardware licensing sense, at the last minute, before even Philips and UA Ltd. apparently threw in the towel, and started writing Atari 2600 game conversions?What if that case design was originally intended to be the "next big thing" in terms of cool-looking systems, intended to compete with things like the redesigned Atari 2600 "Junior" or the 5200's styling, or things like that? Doesn't it sort of look like planned designs of that late 1982 / early 1983 era, by other companies? It does to me.Inside, this is just the standard stuff, with UA Ltd. etched into the circuit boards... so why couldn't the case be an "intended for all new licensees" redesign, pushed at the highest levels, a bit too late?The joystick being internal was odd, but it used standard parts. The system-lockout tab on the cart slot wasn't something that would have been "normal" in the earliest efforts; the idea was too new, then. Interesting. Very interesting. I think we're onto something, once again!?-- Ward Shrake --Gesendet von http://mail.yahoo.de.M"chten Sie mit einem Gru  antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de. 940 From: Max '-mc' Clemens Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 10:24am Subject: Re: Re: Ward's (weird) personal life mc71de Thanks for the flowers, Ward. But you do not know what i *can't* say due to lack of vocabulary or 'fine-tuned' grammar skills ;-) And: I was scared when i read your announcement back then, and i made up my 'worst-case' scenarios in a time of three hours after. So you're late ;-) (The idea with the aliens was borrowed from a post of yours at the vic project list, though. you asked not to tell people you were captured by aliens, and when i read that, i thought: a-ha, that's what they always say... nasty aliens these...) -mc Ward Shrake wrote: Thanks for your vote of support. (Your English is fine; don't worry about it.) I'm confident things will work out, over time.Part of the reason I posted what I just did, when I did, was that (a) the situation has improved enough now that people aren't as likely to worry about it as they might have been inclined to, if I had just blurted it all out at the time I was first leaving my apartment, and that (b) with it being a mystery for so long, that as you've noted, people could probably dream up worst-case scenarios that were worse than the real thing. So the timing seemed right for me to sort of get it off my chest, just so we could sort of collectively shrug, and move on. Which is what seems to be happening, so that's good. :-)-- Ward Shrake --Gesendet von http://mail.yahoo.de.M"chten Sie mit einem Gru  antworten? http://grusskarten.yahoo.de. 941 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 10:44am Subject: re: Help! atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> p.s.: sorry for this html message again, but the web interface still tells me i am no moderator... surprise! I still can post via the web interface, but cannot quote that way :-(( >> I've had this happen before, about a year and a half ago (and not with this board). What I ended up needing to do was cleaning out my cookies. I'm not sure which cookies(s) Yahoo uses, so you'll have to track it down (or erase them all, if you're brave- but that's not my advice). So, has anyone else had this problem before? Adam 942 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 10:52am Subject: Re: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> But imagine a Tele-Fever on a medium-height table, in front of a big tv, the player standing. Arcade at home! Cooolness at its best... >> Okay, this is what I get for making a presumption. I figured that the Tele-Fever looked just like the rest of the consoles in this group- or similar at least. This "Arcade at home" statement that mc71de made had me scratching my head. An arcade at home? The Arcadia? So I checked Google and found a picture right away. I'm sure most of you have seen pictures of this machine, but for someone like me who never saw a Tele-Fever before: a picture is worth a thousand words. Check it out: http://www.heimcomputer.de/english/konsolen/telefever.html Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 943 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 11:45am Subject: Web archive available to members again atrionfo All members should be able to use the web interface to check archives again. Ward did change the group archive options- I checked the records. Not sure why he did that... Ward, uh, why did you do that? Adam 944 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 3:21pm Subject: Re: Web archive available to members again commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > All members should be able to use > the web interface to check archives > again. Ward did change the group > archive options- I checked the > records. Not sure why he did that... > > Ward, uh, why did you do that? > > Adam Why not blame the aliens? I hereby categorically deny everything. Seriously, if I did something, it was inadvertent. I did go in and change the "group charter" paragraph a little bit, just to "allow" the newly-discovered ancestor to be "on-topic" and I may have made one or two other changes I thought were minor... I'll glance at it again, and "un-fix" things if I messed them up, put it back to whatever it was before. (Assuming Adam didn't, already?) All I can think of, pre-looking at it again, is that one option said that anyone could delete posts when things got full, and I would rather save things... whatever, ignore me. Too much coffee. -- Ward Shrake -- 945 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 3:33pm Subject: Re: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots commie_fan [Insert evil laugh here] Yup, that's a Tele-Fever, alright. Thanks to a certain collector on these boards, from that end of the world, I have one myself. :-) It does look cool, that's for sure. But as far as the guts go, as I said in my DPCG write-up, its "Plain Jane" boards from our Top Secret alien friends at "Undercover Aliens Ltd." -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > mc71de wrote: > >> > But imagine a Tele-Fever on a medium-height table, in front of a big tv, the > player standing. Arcade at home! Cooolness at its best... > >> > > Okay, this is what I get for making a presumption. I figured that the > Tele-Fever looked just like the rest of the consoles in this group- or > similar at least. This "Arcade at home" statement that mc71de made had me > scratching my head. An arcade at home? The Arcadia? So I checked Google > and found a picture right away. I'm sure most of you have seen pictures of > this machine, but for someone like me who never saw a Tele-Fever before: a > picture is worth a thousand words. Check it out: > > http://www.heimcomputer.de/english/konsolen/telefever.html > > Adam > > _________________________________________________________________ > Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 946 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Nov 2, 2002 5:14pm Subject: Re: Tele-Fever Casework; was:Screenshots mc71de Hi Ward, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > [Insert evil laugh here] > > Yup, that's a Tele-Fever, alright. Thanks to a > certain collector on these boards, from that end > of the world, I have one myself. :-) > > It does look cool, that's for sure. But as far as > the guts go, as I said in my DPCG write-up, its > "Plain Jane" boards from our Top Secret > alien friends at "Undercover Aliens Ltd." > > -- Ward Shrake -- Hehehe... that's cool... I will add 'Undercover Aliens' to my promised and yet-to-be-written 'who-is-who' :-) Interestingly, i just had a discussion with -as i may assume- that very same collector about the guts of the TF. I have never seen one from inside, but it was exactly my assumption that *nothing* was changed with the board. (He wasn't sure, but thought it possible that we maybe would find some extended RAM in there...) I *think* (have to check the 'Emerson' service manuual against my Schmid machine) that even the NTSC and PAL machines have the same board. It's a pity that the Interton machines (at least of the later production runs) can't be NTSC-ified in such an easy manner... Why i like Interton VC4000 here: They have a single-sided cart port. That makes building homebrew hardware much more easy. (i never got to etching double-sided pcbs...) Unless you come across a prototype board with that nasty 'german' pitch of 2.5 mm, that is. It doesn't sound like a big difference to the standard 0.1inch= 2.54mm pitch, but it really is. Thankfully i realized before i started to solder anything in... -mc, back to anonymity :-) to the moderators: It was my fault to post with my full name, but as it has happened, the messages may as well remain as they are... 947 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 6:34am Subject: Hardware ramblings commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: (snip) > Interestingly, i just had a > discussion with -as i may > assume- that very same > collector about the guts > of the TF. I have never seen > one from inside, but it was > exactly my assumption that > *nothing* was changed with > the board. That's my opinion, while looking at it, but I didn't check parts against schematics or anything. Just looked like the usual UA Ltd. parts, down to the controller PC boards. And as I said before, it had that name etched into the parts. > (He wasn't sure, but thought it > possible that we maybe would find > some extended RAM in there...) As I recall, I got my TF from Stefan... I don't have my own computer handy, to check my old e-mails. But I doubt there were any new or added chips; it looked just like a normal production motherboard to me, with the usual support parts. Maybe they would have wired up that one address line on the RAM that Pet or someone said wasn't hooked up; I didn't look at it that closely. > I *think* (have to check the > 'Emerson' service manuual against > my Schmid machine) that even the > NTSC and PAL machines have the same > board. That's my impression as well, but I have not verified it. My guess is that the only difference between PAL and NTSC machines is one chip for the video output -- it comes in both formats -- and maybe some simple support parts like caps and stuff, with different values. > It's a pity that the Interton > machines (at least of the later > production runs) can't be > NTSC-ified in such an easy manner... Someone mentioned months ago that a video input / video capture card on a PC may accept both formats, and allow a PAL machine to display on an NTSC computer monitor, instead of a TV. I never tried it. > Why i like Interton VC4000 here: > They have a single-sided cart port. > That makes building homebrew > hardware much more easy. (i never > got to etching double-sided pcbs...) They are not hard to do, once you have a secret to it. I have a whole "do it in a garage or in the kitchen" way of etching boards, anyway, so this might not work with industry standard methods, but I just put the two clear-plastic photo-masks on top of one another, to where they line up perfectly, and tape two or three edges together. Slip the sensitized board in between them, carefully, put it all between two acrylic picture frames (as a glass substitute), and rubber band it together. Expose one side under a special desk lamp, for the right amount of time. Stop the lights, flip the whole board sandwich over, and expose the next side. Never had a problem with things lining up, from one side to the other; not cart edges, not through-board holes, nothing. > Unless you come across a prototype > board with that nasty 'german' pitch > of 2.5 mm, that is. It doesn't sound > like a big difference to the standard > 0.1inch= 2.54mm pitch, but it really > is. Yup, it is. Another thing to be aware of is photo-copying machines and/or printers; sometimes they print at 101% or 99% of original size, to meet laws about not easily counterfeiting money. Do that over a few generations of hand-drawn circuit board layouts, and see how well things line up!? As a habit when etching boards, now, I always measure across the longest amount of chip pins, to see if the accumulated error makes it impossible for parts to fit. Or to see if the error makes it impossible for cart edge pins to line up, from one end of a connector to another. Even 1% off may make a board useless. > Thankfully i realized before i > started to solder anything in... What I really love is accidentally reversing sides on a two-sided board. Looks good, till you figure out you have top and bottom reversed, so no connections go where they have to. Did that once on my first etched protos, when I did my usual last-minute rush before I went to a local (SC3) game club meeting. Didn't see it, till I started to solder parts in, and realized I'd done it. I try to put some sort of text on any board side, to make sure it is not mirror-imaged, but that still doesn't stop you from putting the top on the bottom, if you're "pulling a Ward" and not getting enough sleep, or whatever. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 948 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 6:37am Subject: Re: Hardware ramblings commie_fan > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > (snip) > > Interestingly, i just had a > > discussion with -as i may > > assume- that very same > > collector about the guts > > of the TF. I have never seen > > one from inside, but it was > > exactly my assumption that > > *nothing* was changed with > > the board. Oh, and I forgot to mention... I don't recall if the Tele-Fever had a metal RF shielding on it, or not? I remember it being 100% without one, which if I am not mistaken, would also hint at it being a later design. Or one that was made for use outside the US, where there are / were laws about not generating RF interference from computers, etc. -- Ward Shrake -- 949 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 6:52am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin slapdash26 Sorry I've been out of the loop... I've been having computer problems, which may not be over. At 8:59 PM +0000 10/25/02, mc71de wrote: >[I] wrote: >> I think General Instruments did this too, with a >> system they called the GIMINI, >which iirc was the codename for the GI 1600 processor. Possibly. I don't recall for sure. >> and which I THINK became the 7-cart GI-chip >> system family but am not sure. >What the heck is that?!? See http://www.pong-story.com for some info. But, if the GIMINI used the 1600, those aren't related. >Anyway, it definitely became the Intellivision. The 1600. I'm not sure that's what the GIMINI became though. >See http://www.intellivisionlives.com for details. Is this the same >thing you meant, or what else? INTV definitely had more than 7 >carts... Yeah, a lot more. The GI-chip system(s) I refer to used GI chips that had games built into them, like Pong and other games. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 950 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 7:03am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin slapdash26 At 12:25 AM -0700 10/26/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: > mc71de wrote: >> Quoting Adam Trionfo : >>>> Why can't we talk to the author of the book (Peter Holmes) about that? >>> He might be hard to find? >> Especially since it was *Paul* Holmes? >"Title: The TV games computer: an exciting introduction to microprocessors >Author(s): Holmes, P. 1937- (Peter), >Publication: [Canterbury] : Elektor, This is what I was going by. >I thought that I read somewhere that the author's name was Paul. I wonder >why the Worldcat database has the name Peter? Possibly Worldcat is right? At 12:34 AM -0700 10/26/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: > mc71de wrote: >> Russ wrote: >>> More likely placing an ad in Elektor magazine might be good bait... >> Ouch! That one was too easy to think of! >That certainly is a good idea. I don't see any reason to wait to see what >Stefan finds out. We might attract some longtime readers with an ad in >Elektor magazine; people who we might never find online or otherwise. That's certainly the hope. >Are we talking a real ad (i.e. 1/8 of a page or something like that) or just >a short "Hey, we're looking for you in a Want Ads section (if there is one)? Probably smaller, just in case we come up empty. But if it's cheap, well then, who knows. >Russ, to your knowledge, has any group ever done this before? I remember >that Tim Duarte did this with early issues of "The 2600 Connection;" I >bought my first issue because of an ad in the back of Atari User magazine (I >think). I don't know a lot of times this has happened, but that's how I found Tim (before the newsletter even), in an ad BRE Software printed in their mail catalogs. >It seems that nowadays people think if you can't find someone using >the Internet that the person is unreachable. Well, it's not always as obvious, and that's the trick. You kind of have to know where to look... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 951 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Nov 3, 2002 7:10am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin slapdash26 At 10:45 AM -0800 10/28/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: > Stefan wrote: >> There's is an Andrew Choi listed in the Hong Kong yellow pages. >> Anyone able to speak Chinese or willing to disturb and old man??? >I don't speak Chinese, but I bet Andrew speaks at least a little English. >He did, after all, put a bit of English hidden in his ROMs. Probably true, yes. Hong Kong was a British protectorate... How much English is spoken there though? >I had okay results reaching people with the phone for Astrocade information. >Names that sounded uncommon I called (otherwise I had hundreds of numbers >to sift through). With most of the calls I left messages and no one called >back. On occasion I would reach the person and they would say something >like, "I have no idea what Bally or an Astrocade is." Once, though I did >get a return call, and that turned out to be interesting. Like many people >from the game programming community, he was rather shocked that anyone >remembered anything that he wrote over twenty years ago. But he wasn't so >shocked that he wouldn't talk about it. I think most of the old guard are like this... >So, is Andrew Choi a common name? It sure sounds like it could be. I don't know... If it's of Chinese descent, I've heard that there are only 100 surnames that make up 90% of the populace or something. Seems like Choi could be on that list. But Andrew may or may not be common, being a "christian" name. Dunno... >Don't we know of any programmers with an odd last name like mine? >That sure would narrow the search down. Yeah, but don't we know any other programmers for these systems period? Besides Hans, who showed up on his own accord, I mean... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 952 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 9:59am Subject: Digital Press Collector's Guide commie_fan Hi all. This is an important announcement, for those of you willing to contribute more to the future research efforts of this group. I just uploaded the complete, original, unedited texts that went into the "Digital Press Collector's Guide" (version seven). So those of you that are still resistant to buying that book, no longer have to... if all you're interested in is the "Arcadia 2001" console group. (If you're interested in other consoles, go buy the book!) I did this only after much internal debate. I finally decided that: (A) I'm the text's original author, (B) the agreement with those that published the information in the print media was that I could continue to use the info myself as I saw fit, (C) that many of you contributed to the text in various ways, (D) that some of you will likely want to contribute in the future, (E) that it would be best if everyone here had the same starting point so as not to "re-invent the wheel" as it were, and (F) everyone here is arguably more serious than most other game fans, just by virtue of this being a "members only" group that you have to sign up for, instead of a public thing. So, the whole write-up that was included in the Collector's Guide can now be found in the form of two Microsoft Word '97 documents, which are available ONLY on this message board. Click on "Files" and then the "Digital Press Information" folder, and you're there. Please do NOT put these files up publicly anywhere else, or otherwise distribute it... you'll only be hurting our future efforts, if you do. We don't need fifty official-looking versions of this stuff "out there" to confuse ourselves and others with. As far as the public is concerned, and I am concerned, the DPCG #7 book is the latest info that is available anywhere besides this "members only" group. Any updates can be discussed here, and the appropriate people will make the changes, as time and resources allow. (We can always start up a database on these message boards, or people can upload texts in that same folder, to contribute any new stuff to the cause.) -- Ward Shrake -- 953 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 10:05am Subject: RE: Digital Press Collector's Guide mrhaboobi First changes that i can confirm are that Tunix did in fact have Escape and Baseball released, i believe they were unconfirmed previously, so that should now say that carts #1 - #29 for Tunix all existed and are confirmed. -----Original Message-----From: Ward Shrake [mailto:ward.shrake@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Monday, 4 November 2002 12:00 p.m.To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.comSubject: [arcadia2001consoles] Digital Press Collector's GuideHi all. This is an important announcement, for those of you willing to contribute more to the future research efforts of this group.I just uploaded the complete, original, unedited texts that went into the "Digital Press Collector's Guide" (version seven). So those of you that are still resistant to buying that book, no longer have to... if all you're interested in is the "Arcadia 2001" console group. (If you're interested in other consoles, go buy the book!)I did this only after much internal debate. I finally decided that: (A) I'm the text's original author, (B) the agreement with those that published the information in the print media was that I could continue to use the info myself as I saw fit, (C) that many of you contributed to the text in various ways, (D) that some of you will likely want to contribute in the future, (E) that it would be best if everyone here had the same starting point so as not to "re-invent the wheel" as it were, and (F) everyone here is arguably more serious than most other game fans, just by virtue of this being a "members only" group that you have to sign up for, instead of a public thing.So, the whole write-up that was included in the Collector's Guide can now be found in the form of two Microsoft Word '97 documents, which are available ONLY on this message board. Click on "Files" and then the "Digital Press Information" folder, and you're there.Please do NOT put these files up publicly anywhere else, or otherwise distribute it... you'll only be hurting our future efforts, if you do. We don't need fifty official-looking versions of this stuff "out there" to confuse ourselves and others with. As far as the public is concerned, and I am concerned, the DPCG #7 book is the latest info that is available anywhere besides this "members only" group.Any updates can be discussed here, and the appropriate people will make the changes, as time and resources allow. (We can always start up a database on these message boards, or people can upload texts in that same folder, to contribute any new stuff to the cause.) -- Ward Shrake --To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 954 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 10:17am Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: (snip) > Yeah, but don't we know any > other programmers for these > systems period? Besides Hans, > who showed up on his own > accord, I mean... Hans Beiling is the guy I'm most interested in hearing from, whenever those researchers get the time to hear from him. Speaking of which, I seem to recall Stefan or someone asking what he should ask the man, but he got next to no response. (As I recall; I could be wrong.) If he can solidify our understanding of the Interton VC4000, even a little, then we can likely use that as a more solid foundation, to do better Arcadia 2001 research, later. Which of course is a good thing. One word of advice, that may fall on "I already know that" ears: go easy, when trying to pump these folks for info. Some, like those that more or less come to us, will be the most willing to give us info. But guys like the "Funky Fish" author, as far as I can tell, have already done all they intend to do, for us / with us. It isn't even a matter of "we did anything wrong" ... over the years, I have found that the people that mentally "moved on" years ago, aren't willing to just jump back into all that, for any big length of time. (To them, all of this has the sort of flavor of a second-grade poem they wrote, seemingly a million years ago, and have since forgotten. Would you care to spend lots of time discussing such a thing with strangers?) My sort of benchmark way of thinking is that six e-mails maximum, is all that I am going to get out of the folks we have to work hard to find. And then they just sort of quit responding, and go quietly away. Which is a good reason to have your questions thought out well in advance, and prioritized by importance, before talking to anyone. As to this mysterious Andrew Choi... I personally would rather pay attention to the birds we have in our virtual hands -- like Beiling -- before we spend tons of time, perhaps chasing more elusive birds. (Which shouldn't discourage anyone, if they're just dying to do it?) -- Ward Shrake -- 955 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 1:07pm Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin slapdash26 At 11:17 PM +0000 11/3/02, Ward Shrake wrote: >I seem to recall Stefan or someone asking what he should ask [Hans], >but he got next to no response. I don't think I have any good questions beyond the obvious "what did you do, what did you do that wasn't released, any stories?". -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 956 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 1:10pm Subject: Re: Digital Press Collector's Guide commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Greg Cook" wrote: > First changes that i can confirm > are that Tunix did in fact have > Escape and Baseball released, i > believe they were unconfirmed > previously, so that should now > say that carts #1 - #29 for > Tunix all existed and are > confirmed. No offense meant, but you are wasting everyone's time if you guys start to GUESS at what the current document may or may not say. Please actually go over to the link / area where I said it was, download it, print it out, and take some time to really study it. And THEN feel free to make your detailed, cart-by-cart updates... the way things are stated above, I have to guess what you MIGHT mean, and frankly, I am not even gonna bother to try. Things are far too confusing already, what with my stated inability to access my own private computer to make changes, or to update my personal web site, and all of that. Keep in mind that we have different cart lists for different reasons, some here and some on my web site, and they may not match 100%. I'm doing the best I can to manage that, but it isn't going to be easy. Please make efforts, if you guys want to contribute, to make my job as easy as possible... for instance, listing updates in one place I won't have to search for them all later, since there is NO way I can "pull a Ward" any more, and just spend six hours a day dealing with this. It will be much more like "when I can get to it, once or twice a month, for an hour or two" ...like my recent catching up on posts. -- Ward Shrake -- 957 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 1:13pm Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 11:17 PM +0000 11/3/02, Ward Shrake wrote: > >I seem to recall Stefan or someone asking what he should ask [Hans], > >but he got next to no response. > > I don't think I have any good questions beyond the obvious "what did > you do, what did you do that wasn't released, any stories?". That being the case, I guess I'll suggest the semi-obvious: that we make sure he already has access to what Dieter and I said in our respective Collector's Guide sections... and I've done what I could to make that easier to do, by uploading my actual guide texts. -- Ward Shrake -- 958 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 1:21pm Subject: RE: Re: Digital Press Collector's Guide mrhaboobi --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Greg Cook" wrote:> First changes that i can confirm> are that Tunix did in fact have> Escape and Baseball released, i> believe they were unconfirmed> previously, so that should now> say that carts #1 - #29 for> Tunix all existed and are> confirmed.And THEN feel free to make your detailed, cart-by-cart updates... the way things are stated above, I have to guess what you MIGHT mean, and frankly, I am not even gonna bother to try. I thought it was pretty obvious what i meant, what didnt you understand? To Reword what i said : The DPG #7 has both Escape and Baseball for Tunix being listed as Unconfirmed, this email was to Confirm that they do exist ( i have them ) and could the person in charge of making the changes to the document do so. I think its best that one person be in charge of making changes to the document. I hope that makes more sense to the editor of the document. 959 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 2:04pm Subject: Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain; was:[OT]Odyssey programmin mc71de Hi all, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > > That being the case, I guess I'll suggest the semi-obvious: > that we make sure he already has access to what Dieter and > I said in our respective Collector's Guide sections... and > I've done what I could to make that easier to do, by uploading > my actual guide texts. > > -- Ward Shrake -- ... and a big 'Thank You!' for that :-) I did already point Stefan to http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/s_it_hansheinzbieling.htm the full (german) text of the interview Dieter had with Hans-Heinz Bieling a year ago. I wish i had a translation at hand... Adam had babelfish translate it, and the results are quite nice. But so many details got lost :-( As for more questions, i will phone with Stefan in the near future, and he (or even we both *dream*) might even meet with Mr. Bieling for a cup of coffee and a bit of 'small talk'. Remember: Bieling, Stefan and i live almost 'next door'; if only i had a driving license... and that is the very first time in the last 13 years i say that! But maybe train tickets will work out to be less expensive than i think... (A word on the guide: keep in mind that shipping to europe and import taxes will more than double the price of that book. sad but true. But maybe other EU citizens are interested in a bulk order, and shipping might reduce for every single book?) ATTN Stefan: Remember to ask Bieling about the prototype and the soccer game. Maybe we should show him a picture of the Palladium and let him try soccer on MESS? I have it on my laptop *hint hint* ATTN Dieter: Are you still reading here? Do you have that issue of 'Telematch' and could provide us with some sort of copy of the 'T?rk' interview? And i *do* want to see that 'chief bureau' of Interton. Maybe it will look still the same after all these years? ATTN Stefan again: What about the Interton electronics bankruptcy? The 'hearing aid' department seems to be well up and alive still today? Was It. el. a separate company, or were the left-overs bought by another company, so Interton today is just a daughter of someone else? And what about the design of the Palladium??? My guess: It is identical to 'the prototype'... Back to Bieling: I *do* want to have a copy of his 2637 data sheet... pretty please! Sorry, but that was some kind of brainstorming after a long day. It's monday morning, 4am at the moment... -mc 960 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 2:54pm Subject: Re: Digital Press Collector's Guide mc71de Hi Greg, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Greg Cook" wrote: > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Greg Cook" > wrote: > > First changes that i can confirm > > are that Tunix did in fact have > > Escape and Baseball released, i > > believe they were unconfirmed > > previously, so that should now > > say that carts #1 - #29 for > > Tunix all existed and are > > confirmed. > > And THEN feel free to make your detailed, cart-by-cart > updates... the > way things are stated above, I have to guess what you MIGHT > mean, and > frankly, I am not even gonna bother to try. > > > I thought it was pretty obvious what i meant, what > didnt you understand? To Reword what i said : The > DPG #7 has both Escape and Baseball for Tunix being > listed as Unconfirmed, this email was to Confirm that > they do exist ( i have them ) ^^^^^^^^^^^ a-ha! ----------------------- Please understand that we have quite high standards of what we take as a 'confirmation' (Uh? For me this sounds like a 'church-word'? Who stole my 'Advanced Reader's Oxford Dictionary', please?). This is not a sign of disbelief, but too much of nonsense has been told in the past. So saying 'please mark it as confirmed' is not enough. Saying 'i have this or that' is WAY better; maybe we could have a scan? I don't think we have fixed rules what exactly is neccessary... > and could the person in charge of making the > changes to the document do so. I think its > best that one person be in > charge of making changes to the document. Next problem: In general, Ward is the 'List-Maker'. But currently, his ability of maintaining the documents is very limited, so we should provide him with as concentrated information as possible, collected at one place. Maybe we can use Yahoo's database feature for this? Don't know how it works... any volunteers please? > > I hope that makes more sense to the editor of the document. It wasn't a problem of sense, but rather of detail. Never mind if Ward maybe sounded a bit harsh. He's a nice guy, but he has had too much bad experience in the past about people telling 'It's confirmed'. And i can tell you: It is *no* fun to scrap several years of work and start all over again because you cannot tell what of it is based on 'garbage' and what is not. Plus, Ward's time to maintain these lists is very limited. And i doubt he would like the idea to make it a full time job again, even if we paid him a manager's salary... (Hope *this* makes sense to anybody...) -mc 961 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon Nov 4, 2002 6:13pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Photos_and_scans/Ads_and_articles/hoco16.gif Uploaded by : mc71de Description : A scan of an ad for tape software for the TV computer. These tapes were offered by a third party, not Elektor themselves. The same company also did sell kits and expansions of the TV computer. Published in the german Elektor , issue 5/1981 (May) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Photos_and_scans/Ads_and_articles/hoco16.gif To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mc71de 964 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Nov 6, 2002 0:12pm Subject: Re: Table of Contents in English! atrionfo When correcting the English TOC, mc71de wrote: >> Chapter 19: Programmable Sound Generators Organ, Explosion, "LOCK and Admiration Whistle" [Argh. You don't want to lock something; you want to call something (or better -body) to come and stay with you: 'come heeeere, little computer, coooome, pretty pleeeease...'. it's a term of the sound chip datasheet...] >> I'm not sure what you mean. So should it be: Organ, Explosion, "???Call sombody- HUH???" Is it a sound effect, like Boom! Bam! Wham! Is that what you mean? The translation of the TOC is here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_information/ It's called: toc-english-book.txt Adam 965 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 4:06am Subject: Re: Digital Press Collector's Guide commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Greg Cook" wrote: > First changes that i can > confirm are that Tunix > did in fact have Escape > and Baseball released, > i believe they were > unconfirmed previously, > so that should now say > that carts #1 - #29 for > Tunix all existed and > are confirmed. To clear up some confusion... it is the latter part of Greg's original message that I found to be less than 100% clear, not the first part. My limited time for replies (let alone catching up on all of the messages) probably made my earlier comments sound less gentle than I would have liked, and less clear, as well. My apologies for that. But the problem remains: I simply can't accept "bulk updates" such as "carts #1 - #29 (should say)" as being up to our group's standards. I would much prefer an itemized update list, cart by cart, so that we are both 100% certain we're talking about the EXACT same things. In this case, far too many carts for too many systems have confusing or contradictory part numbers. I trust those numbers, least of all. I trust cart names much more, but even then, there is room for error. So the last thing I would ever do is make an update to a group of carts, based on their numbers only. (And having glanced quickly through my original DPCG #7 entries before I said anything before, having done a word search on "Tunix," showed me that while most of the Tunix carts said they were confirmed, that a number did not. I had to believe there was a reason for that, since we all worked so hard on the text before it went to print, and since it was posted publicly for weeks, for any last-minute updates?) Hopefully, that clears up what I was trying to say earlier? -- Ward Shrake -- 966 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 4:09am Subject: Re: Digital Press Collector's Guide stefanpiasecki > > > so that should now say > > that carts #1 - #29 for > > Tunix all existed and > > are confirmed. > > > To clear up some confusion... it is the latter part of Greg's > original message that I found to be less than 100% clear, not the > first part. > Just a quick one: just rushing through these texts at the moment. I also have a boxed version of Escape for the Tunix. Was there a doubt that it existed? Stefan 967 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 4:57am Subject: Re: Digital Press Collector's Guide commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: (SNIP) > By the way I see that there are only 4 votes in the favourite game > poll, I would have thought we all would have at least one game we > like :-) It would be interesting to see what are considered to be the > better games, but I shouldn't speculate on the outcome while the poll > is open... I just now opened a new database, that you all can "Add records" to. It is made to list your first five (or more) favorite games. Check it out. -- Ward Shrake -- 968 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 5:02am Subject: New database -- Collector's Guide updates commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: (snip) > Just a quick one: just > rushing through these > texts at the moment. I > also have a boxed version > of Escape for the Tunix. > Was there a doubt > that it existed? > Stefan Whatever is in my DPCG #7 write-up, was the best info we all had, as of press time. Which was back in May 2002, if I recall correctly. Any new information that came in later than that, won't be in there. Any information that was still "iffy" in any way, back then, we just did the best we could with, naturally. Now is a good time to start making any necessary improvements. So I just started a new database up, that you can all add records to. (Click on "Database" on the left menu, then on "Add records" when you're ready to make your suggestions.) -- Ward Shrake -- 969 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 5:49am Subject: Re: New database -- Collector's Guide updates commie_fan I just "pulled a (mini) Ward" this morning, as you'll probably note from prior messages. There is now a usable database set up here, which can be accessed by clicking on this group's left menu bar. There are a number of good reasons I set things up this way, and I hope you guys will all willingly cooperate with me, in using it. One, we won't easily lose track of needed changes; as we would, if we only talked about them in these messages, scattered amongst many other things we are talking about. Two, the folks at Digital Press are now keeping their guide entries in a database format. If we have both your suggestions and my feedback on them, noted in each entry -- which is how I set it up -- then I can just turn the database over to the DP folks, so they can also have their information current. (Without unnecessary workload.) Three, as I noted before, this gives me time to catch up ... a buffer of sorts, for when I can or can't find the time to make the updates. Also look at the files section: I uploaded the work-in-progress text for the next guide revision, so people can see all the changes made, and you can all have access to the latest info. (As I make changes in my personal copy of the Word document that is the master list, I can now upload them to a spot where group members can easily find it.) -- Ward Shrake -- 970 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Nov 7, 2002 10:20am Subject: Re: New database -- Collector's Guide updates atrionfo This is the best way to enter new data. This way you can leave in what's good and throw out the bad. If you have not taken a look at the database already, then head on over there now. Ward has even filled in the database a bit. I wasn't expecting that (but I should have known). Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 972 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 6:57am Subject: Re: 2650 User Manual mc71de Hi James, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: ... > Anyway, I saw in Adam Trionfo's '7-bit branch table' > document a link to http://www.spies.com/arcade/simulation/processors/2650/2650UM.pdf > for the official 2650 User Manual. However this link is dead :-( I > couldn't find the manual in the files area of this message board > either...Anyone have it? It would be a good thing to post to the > files area, methinks... Um... no. It is far too large- 8 MB! But take a look at the 'links' section. A while ago i put a link there to http://www.spies.com/~arcade/dataSheets/signetics/ and that is where you will find the 2650 manual, too. The wiretap archive had to be reorganized recently, and for several weeks it was completely offline. But now it's there again. > > Anyway I will have to ask my question here rather > than look it up in the manual which I can't get... The doctor is *in*... but feel free to have a look at the manual, too :-) > > At the moment I am still something of a lamer regarding assembly > languages. There are no silly questions, only silly answers. After all, noone was born with assembly language knowledge. And i can still remember how and when i started Z80 ml, and my questions were much the same than yours. > I have a lamer question for you, it concerns relative > addressing. LODR instructions, such as the following: > > lodr,r1 *0172h > > What is this meant to do? It loads register r1 with the contents of memory location 0172 (hexadecimal). > Is this a PC-relative addressing scheme of > some kind? But shouldn't it be a 7-bit or at > most 8-bit displacement? Yes, it is. And the disassembler is kond and smart enough to calculate the 'real' address. > 0172h, if an absolute address, is in ROM? > why would the program be wanting to do this > with ROM addresses? It just gets a constant value that is stored in ROM. Take care of the direction of the data flow: In this case, data goes 'from right to left', and that is the reason why i said 'R1 is loaded with...' For a detailed description how 'relative' addressing works, see page 48 of the 2650UM.pdf > What is the really the point of PC-relative > addressing anyway? What is the difference with the > LODA instruction (which I already understand)? The differences are the reasons: - shorter code (two bytes vs. three) - faster execution (save one clock cycle) - relocatable code: a block of code containing PC-relative instructions can be moved around in memory and will work at it's new location. Absolute instructions must be adjusted to the new memory addresses. Remember our discussion of developing a program in the Elektor TV computer's ram area and moving it 'down' into ROM area to become an Interton VC4000 game? You don't have to fiddle about with PC-relative instructions, thus saving a lot of work. > > Thanks to anyone who can help. It's the only thing I'm stuck on > currently, all the other instructions make sense... Wait for the exact behavior of the decimal adjust instruction... HTH, -mc 974 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 7:58am Subject: Re: 2650 User Manual atrionfo >> I'm getting involved in Arcadia disassembly/programming. Current project is to produce a heavily commented disassembly of the "Capture" game (as it is only 2K I thought it a good one to start with) >> That was my thought with disassembling Crazy Gobbler several months back. I got a start on that if you're interested to take a look; however, I only spent about a day and a half on it (so there's not much there). Make sure to take advantage of the MESS debugger- it works wonders! I was able to trace the way that the maze is drawn on the screen- though that's not commented in the source at all. Anyone have docs for Capture they can type in? Adam 975 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 10:11am Subject: Re: 2650 User Manual commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: (snip) > eventually I hope to be able > to assist in ascertaining the > reasons for the incompatibility > of games such as "Circus" and > "Hobo"... As I recall, on the real thing, Circus wants a delay or a button press before it will start up. Or something like that... without my computer, I have to rely on brain cells, which ain't quite up to par, at times. Oh well. Sorry. I did pass the news on to PeT, when I had discovered it... whatever it was, exactly. It was something the real thing can do, but the emu cannot; that much I recall clearly enough. Controller issues are something I don't think anyone has tackled yet. By that, I mean that once a game for the Palladium, for instance, is dumped and is running on an Arcadia family console, it may not have the exact control response you'd expect. Why? I have no idea. It is likely the hardware is just a little different, between some families. -- Ward Shrake -- 977 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Nov 8, 2002 4:58pm Subject: Re: 2650 User Manual mc71de Hi James, --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: > Now I think I understand...but I don't see what > the advantage would be over a straightfoward LODI, > if you want to load a constant into a register...? > LODI would make shorter code too, presumably? Same length, but LODI is faster... Indeed, it doesn't make sense unless you want to access a value in RAM. Weird... Maybe some sort of habit, to use LODR and not have to care if it's RAM or ROM? I really should make myself familiar with the 2650 instruction set, and look at the code snippet in question. Currently, i would have to look up every single instruction :-( BTW, Adam: your work was not useless. I can start the second part of the users manual and be just at the instruction set. With the 'full' version, i always have to move around, and Acrobat reader is *so* slow with large pdf's. Hint: Un-Check 'smooth images' (or something like that, i don't have an english version of AR at hand) in the 'options' menue (shortcut is ctrl-K in AR5) and speed up AR. The pages will not look as nice as before, but scrolling speed will be *much* faster. > Anyway thanks, I can complete the disassembly now... Has been a pleasure :-) -mc 978 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:52pm Subject: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? atrionfo All right, I think that this idea has been put forward before (or has it?), but we'll never have a concrete answer until we get some solid Arcadia programmer evidence, but... what if Andrew Choi wrote most of the Arcadia games and a good chunk of Interton games too? What if he, like Ed Averett (who wrote most of the Odyssey 2 games) was a one man programming machine? Do I believe that one person programmed most of the games? No, I don't- yet I don't have any proof that that isn't the case. Does anyone think that it is possible? I mean, I would never have thought that one person could be responsible for most of the Odyssey 2 games, yet that is the case. I think that everything that we say on this topic is absolute conjecture (there is just too little to go on), but it came to me when I was looking through the code of Crazy Gobbler, and I have not been able to shake the notion since that time. I don't think that there is proof in either direction, which just goes to show just how little is still known about the Arcadia compatible systems. Someone, anyone, have anything to say about this? Adam 979 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 4:58pm Subject: Arcadia manual booklet atrionfo I made myself a little Arcadia manual booklet from the Arcadia manuals that Charles and I typed. The booklet is 38 pages (8 1/2" x 14") and contains seventeen manuals. It looks rather nice- plus it serves a purpose. I plan to play around with my multicart tomorrow, and now I have seventeen games that I can play with out needing to figure-out what the controls are like. I think I will be passing over these games: Horse Racing, Soccer and Basketball (just because the catagory doesn't appeal to me). I will be taking a closer look at the remaining fourteen. Adam 980 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Nov 11, 2002 5:20pm Subject: Re: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? slapdash26 At 9:52 PM -0800 11/10/02, Adam Trionfo wrote: >All right, I think that this idea has been put forward before (or has it?), >but we'll never have a concrete answer until we get some solid Arcadia >programmer evidence, but... what if Andrew Choi wrote most of the Arcadia >games and a good chunk of Interton games too? What if he, like Ed Averett >(who wrote most of the Odyssey 2 games) was a one man programming machine? It's possible, but he's shown a tendency to put his name in the binaries, so why wouldn't he put it in more? I know of Interton Invaders and Shoot Out (and apparently "Breakout" too), and Arcadia Space Attack and Crazy Gobbler. (And silly me, it notes that he IS from Hong Kong, so that phone number you found MIGHT be his; did it give a wife's name too? Daisy would be correct, and their son Jonathan would be at least 19 now; hmm, any email addresses found??). >Do I believe that one person programmed most of the games? No, I don't- yet >I don't have any proof that that isn't the case. Does anyone think that it >is possible? I'm sure it's possible, but I'm not sure it's likely. If UA was in it big time, I'd think they'd have at least one more coder on it, and probably three or four. But that too is conjecture. Is UA still around? A quick search turned up nothing... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 981 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Nov 12, 2002 1:27pm Subject: Crazy Gobbler: Update #1 atrionfo I am continuing the disassembly of Crazy Gobbler. I started this in May, if you all recall, and I left it where it was. Today I spent some more time with it. I walked through the first major subroutine with MESSd today. The subroutine creates the maze and places the dots, though none of the sprites or special characters are on the screen yet. I'm not looking to make this a perfect disassembly, but I do want to understand the sprite movement, key input, and joystick control. I'll VERY likely need help in difficult areas; I'll keep this group informed of any progress that I make. Adam 982 From: "mc71de" Date: Tue Nov 12, 2002 5:57pm Subject: Mario64 Arcadia version mc71de Err... Adam? Was that really you who added that 'Mario64' entry to the database? And if so, what date was that press release? Maybe late march or early april? Maybe even _very_ early april?!? Just curious... -mc 983 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:01am Subject: re: Mario64 Arcadia version atrionfo mc71de wrote: >> Err... Adam? Was that really you who added that 'Mario64' entry to the database? >> Yes, it was me. I was curious who was reading the database, and when they were reading it. >> And if so, what date was that press release? Maybe late march or early april? Maybe even _very_ early april?!? >> Hold on, let me check on that... Yes, this press release I have in my hand is dated April first. I added the Mario entry for three reasons: 1) I wanted to read a posting like this. I want to make sure that people are reading the database, and questioning what is in there; not just accepting it at face value. Sure, the Mario 64 is obviously a fake, but perhaps some other entry that seems okay to us will be proven wrong by just the right person (or proven right). 2) I want to see what comments Ward adds to the entry. Will he go on with the joke ("Yes, I've seen the Mario 64 press release and this entry seems valid. It really throws a curveball into our theories, does it?), or will he ask me to delete it? I can always claim innocent and say, "but having fun is definitely approved." 3) I wanted to see how long it would take before the Mario 64 entry was noted by someone. I placed it in there on the day or day after Ward started the database. I'll leave that entry in there, if you don't mind. It's kinda fun. If anyone disproves, I can delete it. Anyone else have any "true" unknown entries that we don't know about yet? Adam 984 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:14am Subject: Re: Mario64 Arcadia version commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > 2) I want to see what comments > Ward adds to the entry. Will he > go on with the joke ("Yes, I've > seen the Mario 64 press release > and this entry seems valid. It > really throws a curveball into > our theories, does it?), or will > he ask me to delete it? I can > always claim innocent and say, > "but having fun is definitely > approved." What will that Ward guy say? Hmm. I wonder. Oh, wait, that's me! Silly you, Adam, if you think I would ask you to delete it. Nope. Remember, I was the guy pushing for a "Trash Truck" cart to be in someone else's nice clean, verified cart listings, for much the same purposes. (Semi-private joke; maybe Adam'll explain it? Or not.) > I'll leave that entry in there, > if you don't mind. It's kinda fun. > If anyone disproves, I can delete it. Shame on them, if they get bent out of shape over it. We know what's real, and what's just obviously a joke... I hope? > Anyone else have any "true" unknown > entries that we don't know about yet? Good question. Guys? -- Ward Shrake -- 985 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:25am Subject: Re: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? commie_fan In answer to Adam's question... partially, at least. I'm not trying to argue conclusively, one way or another... just throwing info around. Conjecture is all we can do; that is true, as Adam said. But let's not forget what we know for sure, in the process. A couple of additional considerations for us to ponder: The Odyssey2 experience, as told by Ed Averett to James Hague, was of one guy "doing it all," in terms of software coding. But why would Philips, now allegedly smarter about the video gaming market, be so lame as to STILL only have one guy coding for them? Especially when they wanted worldwide dominance, across multiple platforms, etc? That does not sound to me like the thing you put into one guy's lap, alone? The "one guy" thing on the O2 was because Philips really had no real interest in the market, back when. That changed, so I have to assume that the number of coders also changed? At least one "freelance" type person was given a chance to write a game -- Chris Capener's "Funky Fish" -- and from the info he gave us, it sounded like there was at least SOME sort of a ready-made development kit available, to be given to folks like him. The speed of coding, on some of these games, went FAST. Remember all of the re-writes necessary, when Atari went nuts sueing everyone? Many of those games were released more or less "on time" ... with others just a few months behind the originally-intended "ready for xmas" schedule. To me, that indicates a multiple-person crew, not one guy and lots of caffeine. (Unless he was "pulling an Andrew," way back in the 1980's?) We still know very little about the ported Atari 2600 games... but we do know that Chris Capener, the original author of the Arcadia's version of "Funky Fish" had no idea that a 2600 port was ever made. So that sort of says there were three or more persons involved, unless it defaulted to Andrew Choi, in which case it is still two, proven. So does any of this PROVE anything? Not really. But it is food for thought, until more solid info arrives. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > All right, I think that this idea has been put forward before (or has it?), > but we'll never have a concrete answer until we get some solid Arcadia > programmer evidence, but... what if Andrew Choi wrote most of the Arcadia > games and a good chunk of Interton games too? What if he, like Ed Averett > (who wrote most of the Odyssey 2 games) was a one man programming machine? > > Do I believe that one person programmed most of the games? No, I don't- yet > I don't have any proof that that isn't the case. Does anyone think that it > is possible? I mean, I would never have thought that one person could be > responsible for most of the Odyssey 2 games, yet that is the case. > > I think that everything that we say on this topic is absolute conjecture > (there is just too little to go on), but it came to me when I was looking > through the code of Crazy Gobbler, and I have not been able to shake the > notion since that time. I don't think that there is proof in either > direction, which just goes to show just how little is still known about the > Arcadia compatible systems. > > Someone, anyone, have anything to say about this? > > Adam 986 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:41am Subject: Re: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? commie_fan Another thought to ponder. This one just occurred to me... What if Andrew Choi's involvement with the game console was limited more than we think? What if he didn't WRITE the original versions of the games "Space Attack" and "Crazy Gobbler" but simply RE-WROTE them, to make them less infringing, after lawsuit threats? What if the rewrite was mostly simple stuff, like changing the onscreen lettering from "Pac-Man" to "Gobbler" ... which was all that happened on the Bally Astrocade machine, before "Muncher" started quietly finding its way into insider's hands? But if so, perhaps the original game was an outside-contractor-written thing, such as "Funky Fish" obviously was, and they just brought Andrew Choi in to, well, fix it, when Atari started doing their thing in court? This would make SOME sense, but is still only really vague conjecture. It sort of implies that all of UA Limited was contracted freelancers, given a development kit and a deadline by Philips / UA / whomever, with someone like Andrew Choi coming into the picture due to prior coding skills / experience on the somewhat similar Interton console group? Don't put too much faith in that... it is just a thought, and maybe a dumb one, at that? (I could be forgetting stuff that would disprove it...) I'm just sort of playing devil's advocate, to Adam's earlier comments, and saying just the opposite... that maybe Andrew Choi wrote almost none of the library, instead of writing almost all of it. See how little we really know? Frustrating, ain't it? :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 987 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Nov 13, 2002 7:53am Subject: Re: Mario64 Arcadia version commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > 2) I want to see what comments > Ward adds to the entry. You asked for it, you got it. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 988 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Wed Nov 13, 2002 10:31am Subject: Re: Crazy Gobbler: Update #1 amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I am continuing the disassembly of Crazy Gobbler. Excellent... I started this in May, if > you all recall, and I left it where it was. Today I spent some more time > with it. I walked through the first major subroutine with MESSd today. The > subroutine creates the maze and places the dots, though none of the sprites > or special characters are on the screen yet. I'm not looking to make this a > perfect disassembly, but I do want to understand the sprite movement, key > input, and joystick control. I'll VERY likely need help in difficult areas; I can help with this, as I have almost finished the disassembly of Capture, and have already done those sections of the code... 989 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:39pm Subject: Re: Mario64 Arcadia version mc71de --- "Ward Shrake" wrote: > --- "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > (snip) > > 2) I want to see what comments > > Ward adds to the entry. > > > You asked for it, you got it. :-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- *rotfl* Who can sell me a new touchpad for my laptop? I accidentally bit off a piece... -mc 990 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Nov 13, 2002 3:57pm Subject: Philips' history mc71de Hi all, i just added a link to 'Bookmarks > Reference and research materials'. It points to http://www.digidome.nl/philips_history.htm which is a fan made page about Philips' history. Maybe it should better be in the 'fan made pages' section, but i think it fills some gaps in the history pages at Philips' own site. So i put it right next to it. Same for the 'Antiquetech' info page about Signetics, at http://www.antiquetech.com/companies/Signetics.htm Any comments? -mc 993 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:15am Subject: Re: Mario64 Arcadia version stefanpiasecki > And if so, what date was that press release? Maybe late march or > early april? Maybe even _very_ early april?!? > Just curious... Haha, I though EXACTLY the same. Must have been the April issue..... But why not? Anybody remember the April issue of German C64-magazine I guess in 1987, where they told us how to unlock the secret Amiga- mode that was buried into every C64? Gosh, even my brother and me together didn't have enough fingers to press the keys in the right configuration. Haha, how young and naive we were 994 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:38am Subject: Re: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? stefanpiasecki Some more thoughts. I believe that it all started somehow on the Interton. The powers involved saw that it went well. Licensees bought the hardware and clone-consoles were produced (Radofin etc.). Don't count my words here: it may as well be that Interton just also licensed the system, but this is not my point. I'd like to talk about platforms rather than brand names here. Then some technical modifications were made (2650+2637), the result was the Arcadia hardware base, probably first marketed as the MPT- 03/Ormatu (only available in the Netherlands!!! - test market? So maybe Ormatu first and then a slightly changed design marketeted as MPT-03?) system. Some of the MPT-03 games seem to be straight ports from the Interton: Boxing for example. Then came the Palladium/Mr.Altus system with more ports like Horse Racing and some novel games. It also took some more games from the MPT-03 over like Space Mission. It also saw new games like Panzerspiel/Battle and Video-Autorennen. Third we had the Arcadia family, of much better hardware quality and this time with licensed software - while it dropped titles that may either have been less successful or that just didn't meet player's expectations anymore (Panzerspiel/Battle IS lame when you always have to find another player). I wonder what we could find (how many similarities to cart-games) if we would browse all the TV-computer games that were released on tape... and records.... What if the MPT-03/Palladium activities were just the logical continuation of the Interton? Then, when they found that it can be successful they made a better design out of it and as the need for a regular supplier of software was there or became apparent, they founded UA, probably with or around Andrew Choi? Maybe UA was a HongKong based long-term hardware partner to Philips or some other company (the Intellivision looks so similar and was also produced in HK since 1979 - I just cannot find any reference to UA) and if Andrew Choi also lived there, maybe he was put at UA and worked in their software dept.? UA then produced quite a number of games in a short period. Finally they came up with the flashy and cool TeleFever design to boost sales, maybe somebody asked UA for it, maybe they just wanted to boost sales of both hardware and software. Everybody hoped it to become a success, but it didn't. What will a developer do when his main market fades? He'll produce for the evil competitors, just like Sega released original DC games for other platforms after the demise of their own system. Probably it was just too late for them. But who was behind those Atari-128/256games-built-in consoles? Maybe also UA? Who knows. Hong Kong is just a city and the Chinese have a long experience of "adopting" technology. Today if you make business with China they just expect that you transfer certain rights and patents to your Chinese partner. What if such a HK-company made its first experience with the Intellisivion, or just ex-employees who thought they could do better? At least the paddle design (and compare the material of the casing!) is so similar that they might have had the same suppliers of their raw materials. Just another theory, but I don't think that it is too unlikely. Stefan 995 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 6:25am Subject: Arcadia Controller Fix? atrionfo Controller #2 on my Arcadia 2001 is beginning to fail. Sometimes down and up work fine- sometimes those directions don't work. I'm going to be taking the controller apart to repair it soon: any suggestions on what I should look for? What do you do when your controller fails? Ditch it and get another, or fix it? Why the heck do some game use controller two anyway? If Worm War does get made, then maybe there can be a choice for which controller to use. Adam 996 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:16am Subject: Two-part 2650 UM deleted atrionfo I deleted the 2650 user manual (that was in two pieces), as promised, that was in the temp directory of the files section. If anyone else needs it, follow the link that DOES work in the links section. Adam 997 From: "seanmcgrail2000" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 2:33pm Subject: Black and white video problem seanmcgrail2000 I have an Arcadia that will only display black and white video. I have tried the system with 2 different power supplies. The only cartridge that I own is the multicart. I tried cleaning that as someone told me that could be the problem, but that did not change things. I tried the system on different TV's and this did not help either. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? Thanks, Sean 998 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 2:55pm Subject: Re: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: (snip) > But who was behind those > Atari-128/256games-built-in > consoles? Maybe also UA? > Who knows. Some of the Atari die-hards are sort of half convinced they know, or are about to figure that out. I mentioned it before, I think? That the write-up in the (you guessed it) "Digital Press Collector's Guide" version seven, in the Atari 2600 area, had some conjecture that I felt was interesting, along the lines of such things. Also, there may be some new info coming in regards to the Atari 2600 ports of certain games, but the parties involved with that sort of swore me to secrecy, so that no one bugged them about it too much, until they are ready to give the subject the public treatment it deserves. I trust them completely to do good things, so just trust that one of these days, in good time, we'll hopefully know more, etc. -- Ward Shrake -- 999 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:01pm Subject: Re: Black and white video problem commie_fan Solutions? No, other than to replace the unit. Sorry! But the problem is likely due to the video generation chip... I would guess without more info, and if so, it MAY be as simple as needing to pull the chip out of its socket, and reseat it, after a good cleaning. (I'm operating on the assumption that the chip gives seperate chrominance and luminance, and only the luminance part of the circuit is working... the B&W levels, minus color signals.) But that may not be easy, if the RF shielding is still in place. That stuff needs to be removed with a jack-hammer and dynamite, almost. (Or a 100 watt iron, since the fat sheet metal is a giant heat sink, and desoldering the blobs that hold it shut, takes significant heat. A Dremel and a cutting wheel might also work, but is kinda radical.) Any other takers? (I don't have schematics handy, etc.) -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "seanmcgrail2000" wrote: > I have an Arcadia that will only display black and white video. I > have tried the system with 2 different power supplies. The only > cartridge that I own is the multicart. I tried cleaning that as > someone told me that could be the problem, but that did not change > things. I tried the system on different TV's and this did not help > either. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? > > Thanks, > > Sean 1000 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 3:02pm Subject: Message #1000 -- good grief! commie_fan Yes, we all officially need lives... We just hit message number one thousand, on a six-month old message board, made to discuss old hardware that no one but us remembers, let alone cares about! :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 1001 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 5:29pm Subject: re: Capture disassembly and other goodies available for download atrionfo First to Amigan: that disassembly is SUPER well done. I don't even want to ask how long it took you to do that! Well, okay. how long did it take you to do that?!? Not only are you really fast at disassembling (did you do this all in less then a week), but you are a very fast typed. Just typing the comments alone is a lot of work. I've been commenting Gobbler on paper and I dread tying it in. Since I didn't make a dent in it compared to you, I know I have nothing to complain about. PLUS, you did this all with a debugger. Wow. I haven't taken a close look at the commented source, but I have printed it all out, and I have skimmed it over. I like what I see. It's interesting to seeing different routes to commenting. Yours is different then mine- no doubt better. I'll be reading it over the next few days. >> I've completed the disassembly of Capture, it was hard work so I hope the disassembly will be useful to some of you. >> I look forward to digging my claws into it this weekend. There are a few places in Crazy Gobbler that I already skimmed nearly identical pieces of code in Capture. This will help me. >> It's currently the only commented Arcadia source code available. >> For a while there, there was nothing. No assembler to use. No disassambler. All the groundwork needed to be laid. You took all that and RAN with it. >> It's not perfect but far better than the uncommented disassembly :-) >> Yea. Just a little bit better. Isn't it amazing how many pages of source code it takes to create 2K of binary! I think of an 8K game and I think, "We're not worthy!" Do you suppose that there were ML libraries? The programmer must have created there own code libraries, but do you think that code was shared. I hope so. >> I don't intend to disassemble any other games (in their entirety), it's a massive amount of work :-) >> I still am awe stuck that you did the whole game. In such a short time, that makes the job double-plus good. >> Also I upgraded HowDif to version 2.01, the main difference is that Arcadia characters in *all* colours are now recognized. >> That's rather cool. Does it still require DOS mode (I suppose so). I did dig out the Amiga 3000 this past weekend so that my son could play games- is that version updated too? >> Also the compatibility list/gaming guide has been updated again, eg. I added some documentation for Capture, etc. >> Thanks. I tried Capture with the emulator, and now I can move the little cross. I never checked the keypad buttons before. Stupid me. Adam 1002 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 5:42pm Subject: Message #1000 -- good grief! atrionfo >> We just hit message number one thousand >> You mean that YOU hit message one-thousand. I missed it. Maaaaan. Well, as long as I am message number 2001 I won't be sore. Also, the hardware is not old to me. I only "discovered" it about, um, six months ago. I'm having fun with my Arcadia. It's got some life left in those controllers (well, one of them anyway!). Adam 1003 From: "Charles Morgan" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:03pm Subject: Re: Message #1000 -- good grief! ventrra Oh, I don't know about that. ^_^ I know several people who are facinated by old hardware like this. Unfortunately, most of them have lives outside of video games -_-. Although, I'll admit that I hadn't heard of it until I bought Dighital Press Collector's Guide #4. o_o. --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > Yes, we all officially need lives... We just hit message number one > thousand, on a six-month old message board, made to discuss old > hardware that no one but us remembers, let alone cares about! :-) > > -- Ward Shrake -- 1004 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:14pm Subject: Re: Black and white video problem stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "seanmcgrail2000" wrote: > I have an Arcadia that will only display black and white video. I > have tried the system with 2 different power supplies. The only > cartridge that I own is the multicart. I tried cleaning that as > someone told me that could be the problem, but that did not change > things. I tried the system on different TV's and this did not help > either. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? Hm, if the system works and otherwise the graphics are crisp and clear and the games show up, maybe you are playing with an NTSC console on a PAL TV or vice versa? I have never experienced something like this. Either a system works or it doesn't.... Stefan 1005 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 0:10am Subject: Re: Re: Black and white video problem tempest_2084 Hmm.. Sounds like a color chip is blown. I know I had an Atari XE like that. In any case I'd guess that the system is well beyond repair. Tempest > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "seanmcgrail2000" =20 > wrote: > > I have an Arcadia that will only display black and white video. I=20 > > have tried the system with 2 different power supplies. The only=20 > > cartridge that I own is the multicart. I tried cleaning that as=20 > > someone told me that could be the problem, but that did not change=20 > > things. I tried the system on different TV's and this did not help=20 > > either. Does anyone have a solution to this problem? > > Hm, if the system works and otherwise the graphics are crisp and=20 > clear and the games show up, maybe you are playing with an NTSC=20 > console on a PAL TV or vice versa? I have never experienced something=20 > like this. Either a system works or it doesn=B4t.... > Stefan > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > =20 > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/=20 > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert Tempest@... Http://www.atariprotos.com Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 1007 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:41am Subject: Re: Capture disassembly and other goodies available for download commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > > Do you suppose that there > were ML libraries? The > programmer must have created > there own code libraries, but > do you think that code was > shared. I hope so. [Pure speculation mode ON] I am betting there were official code snippet libraries... remember all of the similar maze game screens we discussed, some time ago? Or the "were these written in assembler of hand-coded in binary" discussions? I was under the impression we had all decided that assembly was definitely used, as we found bits of it towards the end of some code segments, in certain programs. And as I recall (without my own computer's notes) the author to Funky Fish said something about being given some example routines, and some documentation, and given three months to code a game from scratch. -- Ward Shrake -- 1008 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:45am Subject: Re: Capture disassembly and other goodies available for download commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > First to Amigan: that > disassembly is SUPER > well done. Not medium rare, or even nicely burnt? (Sorry, couldn't resist being silly for a second.) But seriously, thanks for all the work you have put in on various things lately, James! I for one am impressed. -- Ward Shrake -- 1009 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:51am Subject: Cartridge archiving commie_fan This is just "thinking out loud," with feedback desired, so don't take it as gospel or anything, just yet. I just noticed that things changed for me, just a bit, which may or may not let me do a little bit of near-future archiving. (I have a room I'm staying in, at a relative's house, and I hooked up an old Commodore 64 computer over there for their kids to play games on. As Adam can verify, I have most of my archiving gear made to work on the Commodore 64. With the C64 set up, I'd just have to get my adapters and stuff out of storage, and I could get it onto a C64 floppy disk, at least. From there, transferring it to my IBM computer wouldn't be impossible; just a bit of a pain, convenience-wise.) So I am wondering if we even have any carts, ready to go, that need to be dumped? If not, I'm not going to sweat it... just a thought? Keep in mind this is a "window of opportunity" and that given my current job / financial state, that window could close again, at a moment's notice. So think days or weeks from now, and not months. -- Ward Shrake -- 1010 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 7:55am Subject: Re: Capture disassembly and other goodies available for download atrionfo >> Yeah, it took almost exactly a week of pulling Wards :-) And I think you meant "withOUT a debugger" :-) >> Yes, that's what I meant- without a debugger. >> Being mainly a C programmer I translated everything to pseudo-C before attempting to comment the code at the "intent" level. >> Yes, that was one of the differences that I was talking about. As soon as I first noticed that I was surprised. I can't remember ever seeing commented code like that before. I do sometimes comment code in pseudo-BASIC, so I understand why you did it. It works for me. I like all the comments at the end- especially the variable list and subroutine list. >> And considering that I didn't know assembly language until a week ago, heheheh :-) >> I hope that this gives everyone on the board something to think about- though I Amigan took one gigantean step this week. It wasn't really a step- more like a leap. Anyone ever seen the Monty Python episode when this guy tries to jump across the English Channel and gets about six feet? Well, this week, I'd say that Amigan just might make it. >> I'm curious as to whether it would be preferred for new games to get their directional input from the buttons (like Capture) or from the analog joystick? Anyone have preferences? >> I'd prefer the joystick. Why the heck would anyone choose the buttons? If anyone DOES prefer those, please explain the rational behind that choice. Adam 1011 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 4:53pm Subject: MESS Debugger (binary!) uploaded to file area atrionfo I have temporarily uploaded the MESS debugger to the Temp directory in the file area of the discussion group. It is not the latest version of MESSd; it's the version that I compiled in May or June. I've run MESSd on a 1.8 Ghz machine and it runs smoothly- all games run at 60 fps. I've also run MESSd on a 400Mhz machine, and all games run at about 10-13 fps (compared to regular MESS running full-speed). The MESS site says that the debugger is chip-intensive, and that seems to be true. For debugging purposes 10 fps is fine, so if your machine isn't the newest computer on the block, don't worry about it. If you are used to using the Windows front-end, MESS debugger must be run from the command prompt. This command line will work for general Arcadia 2001 purposes: MESSD arcadia -cart Don't forget to move your ROM image files (games) into the software folder. Quick MESSd "getting started" tips: 1) F8 - Step line by line 2) F4 - Step to cursor 3) F12 - Go 4) ~ - Switch between debugger and game 5) f1 - Help, has all the rest The online debugger help can't be printed, so I typed it and uploaded it to the file area a few months back. Amigan, let me know how this works out for you. If anyone else can test it out, that would be great (especially if you have some other version on Windows I have not listed). This file will probably be deleted soon, so get it while you can. Adam 1012 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:46pm Subject: Re: MESS Debugger (binary!) uploaded to file area amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > I have temporarily uploaded the MESS debugger to the Temp directory in the > file area of the discussion group. It is not the latest version of MESSd; > it's the version that I compiled in May or June. > > I've run MESSd on a 1.8 Ghz machine and it runs smoothly- all games run at > 60 fps. I've also run MESSd on a 400Mhz machine, and all games run at about > 10-13 fps (compared to regular MESS running full-speed). The MESS site says > that the debugger is chip-intensive, and that seems to be true. For > debugging purposes 10 fps is fine, so if your machine isn't the newest > computer on the block, don't worry about it. > > If you are used to using the Windows front-end, MESS debugger must be run > from the command prompt. This command line will work for general Arcadia > 2001 purposes: > > MESSD arcadia -cart > > Don't forget to move your ROM image files (games) into the software folder. > > Quick MESSd "getting started" tips: > > 1) F8 - Step line by line > 2) F4 - Step to cursor > 3) F12 - Go > 4) ~ - Switch between debugger and game > 5) f1 - Help, has all the rest > > The online debugger help can't be printed, so I typed it and uploaded it to > the file area a few months back. > > Amigan, let me know how this works out for you. If anyone else can test it > out, that would be great (especially if you have some other version on > Windows I have not listed). > > This file will probably be deleted soon, so get it while you can. Unfortunately Yahoo tends to stop about halfway through the download if it's more than about a megabyte, I've tried many times :-( Anyone else get this problem? Unfortunately Yahoo doesn't seem to work with GetRight either :-( so I can't resume it, grr... bloody yahoo :-( 1013 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 9:49pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving amigansoftware > So I am wondering if we even have any carts, ready to go, that need > to be dumped? If not, I'm not going to sweat it... just a thought? I thought Doraemon and Dr. Slump were being dumped, but I haven't heard any more about this? ...and it would be good for us to all keep looking for Super Bug for Ward :-) 1014 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:27pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > This is just "thinking out loud," with feedback desired, so don't > take it as gospel or anything, just yet. > Cool, I am in the office now and don't have any docs here, but I have Dr. Slump and Doraemon as well as Boxing. I believe these all weren't dumped before? Anything else? Stefan 1015 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 15, 2002 11:12pm Subject: To SlyDC: SuperVision stefanpiasecki Hi Sylvain, unbelievable. Recently on a flea market I bought a sealed Supervision plus 3 boxed games (Crystal Ball was icnluded, so I have 4 games now). I bought it because it looked weird and I spotted one on Ebay some time ago. But now when I browsed the net to find what I actually have there and how rare it is, I found your text about it and, hey, it seems that it has an odd story just like our beloved Arcadia? With a rather unknown HongKong based company trying to compete against Nintendo and many foreign licensees who hoped to get a cheap entry into the market. Now, that was a surprise. Thanks for the text. Stefan 1016 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 3:43am Subject: Re: MESS Debugger (binary!) uploaded to file area atrionfo >> Unfortunately Yahoo tends to stop about halfway through the download if it's more than about a megabyte, I've tried many times >> I don't recall having problems with Yahoo before. Maybe it is the time of day/traffic, connection speed, etc. @Amigan: I emailed you a special link so that you can download this file. Let me know if you get the email and/or are able to download the file from that link. Adam 1017 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 7:49am Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan Just a reminder, to you all: I keep an archiving list up on my web site, whenever the "what was or was not archived" question comes up again. And there are links to that web page, from the "links" here. But to answer the specific question(s)... the two Japanese carts were GOING to be dumped -- Russ Perry Jr. was going to loan them to me -- but he didn't get around to it for months, and I finally had to say "no more archiving for the foreseeable future" around August. So, Doreamon is undumped, as is Dr. Slump. Boxing was dumped on the Ormatu ages ago, but confirming that there is only one version would not hurt, if I were doing a batch of cart archiving, anyway. You guys may want to look over the archiving list up on my web site, to see what is or is not dumped yet... assuming you have stuff to loan, and are willing to loan them out, and so on? And remember, there is a "window of opportunity" here... I won't be able to do them forever, so now's the time! -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" > wrote: > > This is just "thinking out loud," with feedback desired, so don't > > take it as gospel or anything, just yet. > > > > Cool, I am in the office now and don't have any docs here, but I have > Dr. Slump and Doraemon as well as Boxing. I believe these all weren't > dumped before? > Anything else? > Stefan 1018 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:43am Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan Oh, another quick point... I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, or anything. I realize MC was thinking about doing some of this archiving, which is fine by me. I just had the impression he was not 100% ready to do it, whereas, I more or less am, once again, at least for the short term. So whatever works out best for the group... -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > Just a reminder, to you all: I keep an archiving list up on my web > site, whenever the "what was or was not archived" question comes up > again. And there are links to that web page, from the "links" here. > > But to answer the specific question(s)... the two Japanese carts were > GOING to be dumped -- Russ Perry Jr. was going to loan them to me -- > but he didn't get around to it for months, and I finally had to > say "no more archiving for the foreseeable future" around August. > > So, Doreamon is undumped, as is Dr. Slump. Boxing was dumped on the > Ormatu ages ago, but confirming that there is only one version would > not hurt, if I were doing a batch of cart archiving, anyway. > > You guys may want to look over the archiving list up on my web site, > to see what is or is not dumped yet... assuming you have stuff to > loan, and are willing to loan them out, and so on? > > And remember, there is a "window of opportunity" here... I won't be > able to do them forever, so now's the time! > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" > wrote: > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" > > wrote: > > > This is just "thinking out loud," with feedback desired, so don't > > > take it as gospel or anything, just yet. > > > > > > > Cool, I am in the office now and don't have any docs here, but I > have > > Dr. Slump and Doraemon as well as Boxing. I believe these all > weren't > > dumped before? > > Anything else? > > Stefan 1019 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:51am Subject: Reinventing the wheel commie_fan I am seeing more signs that we, as a group, are sort of reinventing the wheel in some areas. I don't want to sound like a nag; I'm just pointing it out. We are forgetting things we already "knew" or had mostly figured out, and then trying to remember them, once again, at a later time. (The archiving list's existence, for one example.) Stephan and I have had some good talks in e-mail, recently. He brings up some excellent points, regarding where the Palladium and Ormatu fit into things. But some of it seems to be re-guessing, too. His time is limited, and he admits that, and I for one don't want to pull him off of his interviews with Paul Holmes and all that to pick minor nits, so I am mostly going to just let things go as they are, hoping Paul will have more info than we ever did, in any case? I don't know what to do about all this? With 1000+ messages up here, it isn't like I'm going to expect anyone to memorize all we've said. But I don't want to have us waste our time with research, only to have it be forgotten just months later, either. I guess I will have to give some thought to all of this, to see what (if anything) we can do differently, to keep from reinventing the wheel at regular intervals. I guess I will have to review the things I have put online, to see what is REALLY there, and what I perhaps just think is there now? And I'm thinking about possibly writing up a "what system came first" thing, or at least the start of one. Maybe another database, for that? -- Ward Shrake -- 1020 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 8:58am Subject: Ormatu carts commie_fan Has anyone ever figured out why there are holes under the labels, on the Ormatu carts? And if that means they just reused cart cases, from some earlier machine? If so, I've forgotten what was said. -- Ward Shrake -- 1021 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:03am Subject: Re: Reinventing the wheel commie_fan Another reminder: don't forget that we already have a pseudo-database started, on my web site... a sorted text list of all the ROM chip's date codes that we have found, to date. Judging by those, the Palladium was made first... but maybe we just don't have enough info? (Still, I can't see anything much before 1980, and the Palladium already has carts with chips that old, so...?) My guess is that the Ormatu came along quite a bit later, but Stephan has made (private) arguments that are pretty compelling at times, in the other direction. I guess that's what this is all about? Trying to figure out mysteries, with limited clues, as a torture... err, intellectual exercise for ourselves? -- Ward Shrake -- 1022 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:07am Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving mc71de Hi Ward, hi Stefan, hello world :-) --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > Oh, another quick point... I'm not trying to step on > anyone's toes, or anything. I realize MC was thinking > about doing some of this archiving, which is fine by me. > I just had the impression he was not 100% ready to do it, > whereas, I more or less am, once again, at least > for the short term. So whatever works out best for the group... > > -- Ward Shrake -- No problem with that... i just have to kick myself into really *doing* it. Actually, Stefan would end up dumping them himself :-) Main reason- besides you had to stop your dumping activities- was that Stefan liked the idea not having to ship those wuite expensive carts around the globe again. Remember: Stefan and i live somewhat next door (well, almost...). But anyway i want to check my tiny collection against the already dumped library. I seem to have a rom variant of an 'ultra-common' cart... By the way, what about the 'Video Dictionary'? IIRC SlyDC had one already opened? Stefan has one too, but as of now, i can't tell if i can easily dump the 'daughter carts' with my adapter-to-come. Maybe Stefan can keep his V-D unopened, and you can dump the roms of Sylvain's cart? Just an idea... and i really want to know how large the Proms on the V-Dictionary are. Point is i suspect some kind of banking, and then it will get ugly to dump them the way my adapter works... And if anyone needs some tips on transferring data from C64 to PC, please feel free to ask me. -mc 1023 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 9:53am Subject: Mr. Bieling interview dieterk_ccc Well guys, it's been a while (a few months) since my last post here ... my job is taking all my time, hope this will be better soon. I just flew over the posts from the last few months and saw that Stefan is having contact to Mr. Bieling. It has been almost a year ago when I had first contact with Mr. Bieling. We had some eMail conversation and we even started an interview which was not completed (my fault, I never came up with further questions). The raw version of the interview is already online but not linked to my website yet. You can find it at http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_hansheinzbieling.htm I don't know if Stefan already talked to Mr. Bieling, but maybe we could use my interview as base and continue with further and/or more detailed questions. The bad part for the english-speaking guys in here: The interview is in German. I didn't have the time to translate it into English yet, but will do so as soon as I find the time. In the meantime please use the popular translation websites from Google or Altavista/Babelfish. Would be great if we could join forces here to get a great interview, same with the Elektor guys. Stefan did the interview with Mr. Tuerk from Interton ever come true? Again my offer to help you with that! I will read that board on a daily basis again now. Best regards, Dieter 1024 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 16, 2002 11:11am Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan I am fine with you guys dumping stuff yourselves, especially if it means that others end up knowing how to do it, themselves... more is better, etc. (I even tried to get Joe Santulli up to speed, and sent him my original Arcadia and Astrocade adapters, but nothing really ever came of that. Oh well.) I'm in no hurry, myself, so if you guys already have something worked out, stick with it, obviously. :-) I see my archiving list says we only have five "confirmed" and five "rumored" carts left to find and archive, and then we have them all. Three is a significant chunk of that, but with two confirmed ones left to find, and five more to confirm, it isn't like we are a step away from the finish line, as it were. This will be going on for quite some time, I would imagine, given the speed of finding things, let alone mailing them to someone to dump. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "mc71de" wrote: > Hi Ward, hi Stefan, hello world :-) > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" > wrote: > > Oh, another quick point... I'm not trying to step on > > anyone's toes, or anything. I realize MC was thinking > > about doing some of this archiving, which is fine by me. > > I just had the impression he was not 100% ready to do it, > > whereas, I more or less am, once again, at least > > for the short term. So whatever works out best for the group... > > > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > No problem with that... i just have to kick myself into really > *doing* it. Actually, Stefan would end up dumping them himself :-) > Main reason- besides you had to stop your dumping activities- was > that Stefan liked the idea not having to ship those wuite expensive > carts around the globe again. Remember: Stefan and i live somewhat > next door (well, almost...). > > But anyway i want to check my tiny collection against the already > dumped library. I seem to have a rom variant of an 'ultra-common' > cart... > > By the way, what about the 'Video Dictionary'? IIRC SlyDC had one > already opened? Stefan has one too, but as of now, i can't tell if i > can easily dump the 'daughter carts' with my adapter-to-come. Maybe > Stefan can keep his V-D unopened, and you can dump the roms of > Sylvain's cart? Just an idea... and i really want to know how large > the Proms on the V-Dictionary are. Point is i suspect some kind of > banking, and then it will get ugly to dump them the way my adapter > works... > > And if anyone needs some tips on transferring data from C64 to PC, > please feel free to ask me. > > -mc 1025 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Nov 18, 2002 5:38pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving slapdash26 At 8:49 PM +0000 11/15/02, Ward Shrake wrote: >But to answer the specific question(s)... the two Japanese carts were >GOING to be dumped -- Russ Perry Jr. was going to loan them to me -- >but he didn't get around to it for months, and I finally had to >say "no more archiving for the foreseeable future" around August. Right... Part of the reason was because I wanted to gather up some other stuff too, like TCS carts that I think might be another family related to the Interton & Acetronic... That didn't happen. >And remember, there is a "window of opportunity" here... I won't be >able to do them forever, so now's the time! How much time? Maybe I'll just dig out those two carts and that's it for the time being? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1026 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Nov 18, 2002 5:49pm Subject: Re: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? slapdash26 At 8:41 PM +0000 11/12/02, Ward Shrake wrote: >What if Andrew Choi's involvement with the game console was limited >more than we think? What if he didn't WRITE the original versions of >the games "Space Attack" and "Crazy Gobbler" but simply RE-WROTE >them, to make them less infringing, after lawsuit threats? One comment... While that might be possible, remember that two of the games his name has been found in were for the Interton/Acetronic family. If this is a predecessor system to the Arcadia family, it would seem that he was around for a bit... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1027 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:37pm Subject: Re: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? mc71de Hi all, just a quick thought from me... --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: [Andrew Choi] > remember that two of the games his name has been > found in were for the Interton/Acetronic family. > If this is a predecessor system to the Arcadia family, > it would seem that he was around for a bit... At least the 'arcadia technology' comes from the same origin, i.e.Signetics/ Philips (for this single aspect i won't tzry to separate these two, even if they weren't that sort of monolithic block we would expect nowadays, three or five years after one company has bought another). Now, my very private theory about andrew Choi is as follows: - We know Philips did at least some kind of developement (the 'Elektor' monitor program, for example) for their system(s) [maybe we'll find it was MUCH more than that]. - We know Signetics always aimed at the industrial market, so they will most probably have had some programming staff, to create the software for their customers. - We have found some pieces of assembler source code in several ROMs, and that doesn't sound like homebrew software created on the Elektor system, but rather some kind of 'large' computer (to avoid the term mainframe). So maybe A.Ch. was just a 'little' programmer at Signetics, and one day his boss came in, handed him over a stack of documentation of the 2636/2637 chips and said: 'Hey, we have that video game chip. Make some little games for it, pretty please.' Just the usual in a computer company, isn't it? Has anybody ever asked for the programmers of the IBM mainframes of those days? But our Mr. Choi was kind of different. He left his name in the code... To put a long story short: For me, he was just a little employee at Signetics (didn't we dig up their former chip production plant this summer?). And now rip me apart for wild guesses... ;-) -mc 1028 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Nov 18, 2002 6:53pm Subject: Ad in Elektor; was:Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain mc71de Hi all, I hope i don't post things already widely known... --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > >I read ... the author's name was Paul. > Possibly Worldcat is right? Definitely not. It's *Paul* Holmes. He claims to be named Paul. But maybe he is wrong, too :-) (Well, mistakes do happen, and Worldcat won't be an exception) > > ad in Elektor magazine > >Are we talking a real ad (i.e. 1/8 of a page > >or something like that) or just a short "Hey, > >we're looking for you in the 'Wanted' section Update: Even better, we have a letter by Stefan in the 'Readers' Corner' aka 'a letter to the editor' of Elektor 11/2002. That will take much more attraction than a five-liner private ad, and a 'real' ad is quite out of the question, price-wise. Additionally, i placed a search message at the forum of the '8-Bit Nirvana' at www.zock.com. This is *the* place for the german 8-bit computing experts, and maybe we'll get some response this way too. -mc 1029 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:11pm Subject: Re: Black and white video problem mc71de Hi all, --- "Matthew Robert Reichert" wrote: > Hmm.. Sounds like a color chip is blown. I know I > had an Atari XE like that. In any case I'd guess > that the system is well beyond repair. > > Tempest >> "seanmcgrail2000" =20 > wrote: >>> I have an Arcadia that will only display black >>> and white video. Uhh.. NACK. There is no such thing as a color chip in an arcadia. The video output of the 2637 chip is RGB, so if that fails, you won't have any video at all. What might very well have happened (other than ic sockets collecting dirt, try reseating socketed chips) is a crystal going out of alignment, giving an off-tolerance color frequency. Try to find adjustable capacitor C8 at the front of teh main board, a bit right of the middle, just below 'XTAL'. (Look at the emerson service manual we have in the files area) Take a little screwdriver, hook up the system, and make sure you get a b&w picture. Now carefully turn the 'screw' of C8 a bit clockwise, and anti-clockwise again. If you are lucky, you can get a colored picture again this way. For 'fine tuning', check the picture quality with the screwdriver removed (it will interfere a bit with the adjustment). HTH and Good Luck! -mc 1030 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Nov 18, 2002 7:44pm Subject: [not OT]GI Systems; was:Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain mc71de Hi Russ, --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > >which iirc was the codename for the GI 1600 processor. > > Possibly. I don't recall for sure. Look at http://www.dsplib.com/chips/gi8900.html There it says so, and that is the INTV. But if you're generous, it consists of seven different chips :-) > > >> and which I THINK became the 7-cart GI-chip > >> system family but am not sure. > See http://www.pong-story.com for some info. Aaahhh... but did anyone notice? This is not really off-topic. THERE ARE ALL THOSE COMPANIES THAT MADE THE INTERTON AND ARCADIA MACHINES... (ooops, no yelling intended...) Anyway (and pong-story is not nearly complete here) we have Radofin... Hanimex... Palladium... all did those 'Pong in a chip on a cart' systems. Some shared the same carts, some chose a different pinout. Amazing... and no, i definitely *don't* want to categorize and list all of them. I am still not up-to-date with all Interton/ Radofin/ Acetronic systems... BTW, did you notice those 'tiny little' Interton Video 2000 Carts? ATTN Mr. Piasecki: Don't forget to ask Mr. T?rk for a schematic of these, please! > >Anyway, it definitely became the Intellivision. > > The 1600. I'm not sure that's what the GIMINI became though. > Hmmm... as far as my sources go, 'GIMINI' was the code name for the CP1600 processor architecture. But we know what we mean, respectively. (sorry if i write rubbish today. I ran out of caffeine...) -mc 1031 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Tue Nov 19, 2002 0:48am Subject: Re: Re: Black and white video problem tempest_2084 Shows how much I know about the Arcadia hardware. I'm a software person not hardware (chips aren't my bag). I hope you get your console working, but since they're so cheap you might be better off getting a new one. Not to go totally off topic, but has anybody ever figured out what that expansion port on the back of the Arcadia was for? At one point I heard a rumor about extra joysticks, but I never saw any proof of that. Tempest > > Hi all, > > --- "Matthew Robert Reichert" wrote: > > Hmm.. Sounds like a color chip is blown. I know I > > had an Atari XE like that. In any case I'd guess > > that the system is well beyond repair. > > > > Tempest > > >> "seanmcgrail2000" =20 > wrote: > > >>> I have an Arcadia that will only display black > >>> and white video. > > Uhh.. NACK. There is no such thing as a color chip in an arcadia. > The video output of the 2637 chip is RGB, so if that fails, you > won't have any video at all. What might very well have happened > (other than ic sockets collecting dirt, try reseating socketed > chips) is a crystal going out of alignment, giving an off-tolerance > color frequency. Try to find adjustable capacitor C8 at the front of > teh main board, a bit right of the middle, just below 'XTAL'. (Look > at the emerson service manual we have in the files area) Take a > little screwdriver, hook up the system, and make sure you get a b&w > picture. Now carefully turn the 'screw' of C8 a bit clockwise, and > anti-clockwise again. If you are lucky, you can get a colored > picture again this way. For 'fine tuning', check the picture quality > with the screwdriver removed (it will interfere a bit with the > adjustment). > > HTH and Good Luck! > > -mc > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert Tempest@... Http://www.atariprotos.com Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 1032 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Tue Nov 19, 2002 1:09am Subject: Re: What if Andrew Choi wrote most Arcadia games? amigansoftware > So maybe A.Ch. was just a 'little' programmer at Signetics, and one > day his boss came in, handed him over a stack of documentation of > the 2636/2637 chips and said: 'Hey, we have that video game chip. > Make some little games for it, pretty please.' > Just the usual in a computer company, isn't it? Has anybody ever > asked for the programmers of the IBM mainframes of those days? But > our Mr. Choi was kind of different. He left his name in the code... It is apparent from disassembly of the Capture and Circus games that these two games were very likely *not* written by the same person. Evidence in support of this: Circus completely avoids the hated LODR and STRR instructions (always uses LODA and STRA instead, even when the relative versions could have been used), it also avoids the TMI instruction. Not conclusive proof, but strongly suggestive. The relative vs. absolute issue could also point to a different assembler being used in each case, which would also suggest different programmers. Why don't they all leave their names in the code :-) Although with Capture in particular there is only a few bytes spare. Now, for an interim update on the Circus fixing: The freezing during initialization is caused by the program busy- waiting for the current character line to become 15. This never happens on the emulator (on MESS, the current character line is 0-12 during display and then 13 during vertical blank). So obviously the behaviour of a real Arcadia is slightly different from this. Testing for 13 instead of 15 seems to work, but there are also two other major MESS compatibility problems with the game: 1) MESS doesn't "splat" the acrobat when he misses the seesaw. Interestingly, Paul Robson's 2001 Emulator does. So you can't lose a man in MESS. Haven't found the cause of this yet. 2) Once the acrobat is up near the top of the screen he does his bouncing around even when there is nothing to bounce off, so he never comes back down. Also some problems with the joystick emulation, etc. If anyone has a manual for this game it would be helpful, to know the expected behaviour. But presumably it would already be uploaded if anyone had it? I'm playing the coin-op version through MAME to get an idea of how it should play. But on the MAME version the acrobat bounces off the side walls, whereas on the Arcadia version he gets 're-flung' from the bottom-left or bottom-right corner of the screen. Anyone know if that is the expected behaviour of the Arcadia version? I'm not sure if it's a compatibility problem or was designed that way. If anyone is interested in the interim patched version of Circus, I can upload it. However it's not yet playable at this stage... 1033 From: slapdash@... Date: Tue Nov 19, 2002 3:19am Subject: Re: [not OT]GI Systems; was:Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain slapdash26 Quoting mc71de : > Russ Perry Jr wrote: [Gimini] >>> which iirc was the codename for the GI 1600 processor. >> Possibly. I don't recall for sure. > Look at: http://www.dsplib.com/chips/gi8900.html > There it says so, and that is the INTV. But if you're generous, it > consists of seven different chips :-) See, the thing is, I think the book was dated before the Intellivision, and the games sounded more on the level of older systems. I don't know though. I guess I might try to dig that book up when I'm back home... >> See http://www.pong-story.com for some info. > BTW, did you notice those 'tiny little' Interton Video 2000 Carts? By "tiny little" I assume you mean the lack of stuff inside more than the physical size? >>> Anyway, it definitely became the Intellivision. >> The 1600. I'm not sure that's what the GIMINI became though. > Hmmm... as far as my sources go, 'GIMINI' was the code name for the > CP1600 processor architecture. But we know what we mean, > respectively. I'm mildly stumped on this one. It's possible that the book I saw was giving a precursor to the Intellivision, but like I said above, I didn't get that impression -- it seemed like older tech. The book was in the reference section, so it could not be checked out. I'll try to get over there to see, and maybe will photocopy the relevent pages. Or maybe it'll be clear, one way or the other, if it's the CP1600 or not. Hope the book is still there... Russ Perry Jr ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 1034 From: "mc71de" Date: Tue Nov 19, 2002 8:10am Subject: [OT]Interton Video2000; was:[not OT]GI Systems mc71de Hi Russ, --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > >> See http://www.pong-story.com for some info. > > > BTW, did you notice those 'tiny little' > > Interton Video 2000 Carts? > > By "tiny little" I assume you mean the lack of > stuff inside more than the physical size? Uh-ohh... it was intended to be a joke; i thought the Video 2000's carts were huge, something like NeoGeo carts. Seems they are smaller... but yes, there is not much inside- except the super tennis cart. This one has two boards and lots of cmos chips. Let's hope Interton still has some schematics of these *sigh* [and of the TC2100 telephone computer. Imagine a whopping 100 cm of one-touch dial buttons (160 phone numbers in total). Very impressive, but one of mine is broken :-( and i'd like to fix it] [GIMINI] > I'm mildly stumped on this one. It's possible that > the book I saw was giving a precursor to the Intellivision, > but like I said above, I didn't get that impression Never mind; maybe GI re-used the term 'GIMINI'... who knows. I know it as a nickname for the GI1600, not even the GI8900 system proposal (which would evolve into the the INTV). Like in 'GI MINI computer'. But why not 'GI MINI video game (chips)' too? BTW, we discussed the poor quality of some of the arcadia clones and came up with the chimp theory. I have a (1978) Hanimex Pong (a blue handheld unit with a detachable second 'controller'). Same crappy mess in there... i'd like to fix it, but no way. The moment i unsolder one wire, everything comes off and won't give me a single clue where it was supposed to be. I think i will make a 'control board' for a working Pong out of it, replacing the antenna lead with a flat ribbon wire. Did i mention solder smoke is addictive? > Hope the book is still there... I keep my fingers crossed for you. In fact, i got curious too! :-) -mc 1035 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:37am Subject: Re: Black and white video problem commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matthew Robert Reichert" wrote: (snip) > Not to go totally off topic, but > has anybody ever figured out what > that expansion port on the back > of the Arcadia was for? At one > point I heard a rumor about extra > joysticks, but I never saw any > proof of that. Sigh. This is a trick question, right? After all of the recent times I've said you guys are forgetting things we already knew, and are reinventing the wheel on a regular basis, this was said just to mess with my head, right? See if I'm awake, etc? Take another look at the Digital Press Collector's Guide write-up, for version 7. It's in there, in the hardware (non-cart) section. I admit that Joe moved things around in the printed book version, but the un-edited original version I wrote is available, in the files section of this message board. -- Ward Shrake -- 1036 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Nov 19, 2002 11:39am Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 8:49 PM +0000 11/15/02, Ward Shrake wrote: (snip) > > And remember, there is a > > "window of opportunity" > > here... I won't be able > > to do them forever, so > > now's the time! > > How much time? Maybe I'll > just dig out those two carts > and that's it for the time being? As soon as possible, or "sooner rather than later". I'd say within the next 2 to 4 weeks. After that, things get way too "iffy" for me. -- Ward Shrake -- 1037 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Tue Nov 19, 2002 0:29pm Subject: RE: Re: Black and white video problem tempest_2084 Sorry Ward. I never noticed the external joysticks listed amidst all those rumor mill items. I wonder if they were maybe planning a spinner or something (only two wires and no fire buttons). Tempest -----Original Message----- From: Ward Shrake [mailto:ward.shrake@...] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 7:38 PM To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Black and white video problem --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matthew Robert Reichert" wrote: (snip) > Not to go totally off topic, but > has anybody ever figured out what > that expansion port on the back > of the Arcadia was for? At one > point I heard a rumor about extra > joysticks, but I never saw any > proof of that. Sigh. This is a trick question, right? After all of the recent times I've said you guys are forgetting things we already knew, and are reinventing the wheel on a regular basis, this was said just to mess with my head, right? See if I'm awake, etc? Take another look at the Digital Press Collector's Guide write-up, for version 7. It's in there, in the hardware (non-cart) section. I admit that Joe moved things around in the printed book version, but the un-edited original version I wrote is available, in the files section of this message board. -- Ward Shrake -- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 1038 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Tue Nov 19, 2002 7:04pm Subject: OT: question related to the Supervision system stefanpiasecki Good morning, can somebody please have a look at the games-guide if the Supervision system is mentioned there? Is there a rarity list? I bought a system and some games on a flea market and in many aspects it remembers me of how the Arcadia was produced and spread over the world. I'd now like to get a list of available games, which of them are good and how rare these are. Can anybody help? Thanks Stefan 1040 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Nov 20, 2002 0:52pm Subject: Re: Black and white video problem commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > Sorry Ward. I never noticed > the external joysticks listed > amidst all those rumor mill > items. Sometimes I had to put stuff wherever it would fit, as the guide's big hidden assumption is that there are only a few sub-things worthy of cataloging, and that a psuedo-database format is good enough to handle everything. It really isn't, for Digital Archaeology purposes, although its sufficient for game collectors who just want to check a box off, and be done with it. (It's a real database now, so editor Joe put my "opening statements" about each section, all up front, which makes matters less clear. Oh well; such is life for a writer.) The unedited Word document in the "files" area is a bit more coherent. > I wonder if they were maybe > planning a spinner or > something (only two wires > and no fire buttons). I doubt a "spinner" was on their list of hot items to include? You hardware guys feel free to correct me, but I think they took more wires to implement, even on Atari's own "Driving Controller"? A paddle makes much more sense, to me. This was a console designed to sell cheaply, and it already had a built-in controller that was fairly complicated for its day. Even Atari's "driving controller" was not used much, on many games. Heck, even in the arcades, that type of a controller was not in common use. So I'm heavily doubting a spinner was ever one of their plans, for any of the consoles in this group. A paddle control, ala early Pong systems, makes much more logical sense to me, given what we already know. It fits their idea of doing things cheaply, and of using what they had before, such as the games on the Interton console. My current thinking is that they were not sure if they were going to make more arcade games, or if they were going to just port over more of the old Interton games, so the thing to plan for would be a way to retro-fit the older, "filler" games. For certain games like Circus, I'm betting the original consoles those games were written for, had potentiometer-based joysticks. And the Arcadia doesn't have that "continuous change of resistance" type of joystick; it is closer to a button-only type of controller. If you play Circus on the Arcadia, as I did just days ago, it appears that the game only registers three positions; left, middle and right edges. I'm betting the ports in the back, if they had a potentiometer with the right resistance values in it, would give smoother motion, and more positions possible, making the game much more playable? -- Ward Shrake -- 1041 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Nov 20, 2002 0:55pm Subject: Re: OT: question related to the Supervision system commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Good morning, > can somebody please have a look at the games-guide if the Supervision > system is mentioned there? Is there a rarity list? I bought a system > and some games on a flea market and in many aspects it remembers me > of how the Arcadia was produced and spread over the world. I'd now > like to get a list of available games, which of them are good and how > rare these are. > Can anybody help? > Thanks > Stefan Try the Digital Press Collector's Guide. I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that they cover that system. And they have supplementary lists, after the publication deadline, over on their web site. (See the Links section of these boards.) -- Ward Shrake -- 1042 From: "Matt Reichert" Date: Wed Nov 20, 2002 1:54pm Subject: RE: Re: Black and white video problem tempest_2084 But wouldn't most paddle games require a fire button? Tempest -----Original Message----- From: Ward Shrake [mailto:ward.shrake@...] Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2002 8:52 PM To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Black and white video problem --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > Sorry Ward. I never noticed > the external joysticks listed > amidst all those rumor mill > items. Sometimes I had to put stuff wherever it would fit, as the guide's big hidden assumption is that there are only a few sub-things worthy of cataloging, and that a psuedo-database format is good enough to handle everything. It really isn't, for Digital Archaeology purposes, although its sufficient for game collectors who just want to check a box off, and be done with it. (It's a real database now, so editor Joe put my "opening statements" about each section, all up front, which makes matters less clear. Oh well; such is life for a writer.) The unedited Word document in the "files" area is a bit more coherent. > I wonder if they were maybe > planning a spinner or > something (only two wires > and no fire buttons). I doubt a "spinner" was on their list of hot items to include? You hardware guys feel free to correct me, but I think they took more wires to implement, even on Atari's own "Driving Controller"? A paddle makes much more sense, to me. This was a console designed to sell cheaply, and it already had a built-in controller that was fairly complicated for its day. Even Atari's "driving controller" was not used much, on many games. Heck, even in the arcades, that type of a controller was not in common use. So I'm heavily doubting a spinner was ever one of their plans, for any of the consoles in this group. A paddle control, ala early Pong systems, makes much more logical sense to me, given what we already know. It fits their idea of doing things cheaply, and of using what they had before, such as the games on the Interton console. My current thinking is that they were not sure if they were going to make more arcade games, or if they were going to just port over more of the old Interton games, so the thing to plan for would be a way to retro-fit the older, "filler" games. For certain games like Circus, I'm betting the original consoles those games were written for, had potentiometer-based joysticks. And the Arcadia doesn't have that "continuous change of resistance" type of joystick; it is closer to a button-only type of controller. If you play Circus on the Arcadia, as I did just days ago, it appears that the game only registers three positions; left, middle and right edges. I'm betting the ports in the back, if they had a potentiometer with the right resistance values in it, would give smoother motion, and more positions possible, making the game much more playable? -- Ward Shrake -- To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 1043 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Nov 20, 2002 2:03pm Subject: Re: OT: question related to the Supervision system atrionfo >> Try the Digital Press Collector's Guide. I'm pretty sure, but not positive, that they cover that system [Supervision]. >> No, they do not. I checked the DP Guide 7 book. Nope. That makes sense too, since the Supervision was released in late eighties, early ninties (I think). Also I checked the DP Guide website, which has more recent systems, but it's not there either. I checked the Video Game Bible (which is carries the more-recent systems)- the Supervision is not listed on the back of the book: http://www.atariage.com/store/view_picture.html?ImageName=images/books/VideoGameBible_Back.jpg I've seen the Supervision before at a SC3 meeting (a meeting of like-minded collectors- also where I met Ward). The person who owned it there said the system had about forty games released. He even had the TV-Hookup (I saw it). That's all hearsay. You know how much you can trust a person's memory... Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 1044 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Nov 20, 2002 4:46pm Subject: Re: OT: question related to the Supervision system slapdash26 At 8:04 AM +0000 11/19/02, Stefan Piasecki wrote: >can somebody please have a look at the games-guide if the Supervision >system is mentioned there? Is there a rarity list? I'm not aware of a rarity list... >I'd now like to get a list of available games, which of them are good >and how rare these are. Can anybody help? Well, here's a list that I have. There are probably better ones out there (maybe on SlyDC's page, or peliwhatever). ---------- Russ Perry Jr / 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 / Arlington Hts IL 60005 / 847-952-9729 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- SUPERVISION [manufactured by Bit Corp(?); sold by Goldnation USA - no actual company name on box] ? TravellMate 9205 Watara SuperVision Portable Video Game System With Giant Screen + Crystball 9418 Watara SuperVision Portable Video Game System With Giant Screen + 3-In-1 Classic Casino 9206 Carrying Bag 9233 AC Adaptor 9307 TV Link [HW: play SuperVision on TV] 9320 DC Car Adaptor 2-Player Link [NR?] Waist Bag [NR?] Goldnation? (US) (no company on label or packaging) 2103 Crystball 2104 Block Buster 2106 P.52 Sea Battle 2107 Carrier 2108 Eagle Plan 2109 Alien 2110 Pacboy & Mouse 2111 Hero-Kid 2112 Linear Racing 2114 Sssnake (B.I.T.S./Bon Treasure) (92) 2115 Challenger Tank 2116 Majong 2117 Tennis Pro '92 2118 Chimera 2119 Police Bust 2120 Space Fighter 2121 Honey Bee (Bon Treasure) 2122 Grand Prix (Bon Treasure) 2123 Jaguar Bomber (Bon Treasure) 2124 Olympic Trials (Divide By Zero?) 2125 Matta Blatta 2126 Tasac 2010 2127 Happy Race 2128 Super Pang 2129 Galactic Crusader 2130 Chinese Checkers 2131 Super Block (Bon Treasure) (92) 2132 Brain Power {Frank Gu} 2133 Pacific Battle 2134 Earth Defender 2135 Delta Hero 2136 Fatal Craft 2137 Dream World 2138 Recycle Design (Bon Treasure) 2140 Dancing Block 2141 Final Combat 2142 Happy Pairs (Sachen) 2143 John Adventure (Sachen) 2144 Penguin Hideout (Thin Chen Enterprises) 2147 Balloon Fight 2148 Popo Team 2149 Super Kong 2150 Pyramid (Sachen/Thin Chen Enterprises) (89, 92) 2154 Magincross 2159 2 In 1: Eagle Plan/Hash Block (GTC) (91) 2160 2 In 1: Cross High/Block Buster [NR?] 2161 Soccer Champion 2162 Bubble World (Bon Treasure) 2163 Juggler 2164 Climber (Bon Treasure) 2165 Treasure Hunter 2166 Witty Cat 2169 4 In 1: Jacky Lucky (Bon Treasure)/Hash Block (GTC) (91)/Challenger Tank/Brain Power {Frank Gu} 2170 Kitchen War 2171 Untouchable (Bon Treasure) 2174 Scaffolder 2175 Happy Flappy [NR?] 2176 Devil Paradise [NR?] 2177 Kabi-Island 2178 Thunder Shooting 2179 Wonderfish [NR?] 2180 4 In 1: Cave Wonders/Earth Defender/Soccer Champion/Jaguar Bomber [NR?] 2181 Combat [NR?] 2187 Galaxy Fighter 2188 Kung-Fu Street 2189 The Kung-Fu Fighter [NR?] 2190 Hero Hawk 2191 Jade Legend 2193 Sonny Xpress 2200 3 In 1: Classic Casino 2203 Classic Casino: Baccarrat/Poker Hartung Spiele-Berlin (Germany) (no company on label, but on box) SV100/01 Block Buster SV100/02 Hash Blocks SV100/04 Carrier SV100/09 Sssnake SV100/10 Alien SV100/21 Grand Prix Linear Racing ? 2 In 1: Magincross/Police Bust B52 Battle Journey To The West USA Sea Battle (same as P.52 Sea Battle? Pacific Battle?) Witty Kitty (same as Witty Cat?) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1045 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Nov 20, 2002 5:33pm Subject: Re: Black and white video problem mc71de Hi Ward, --- "Ward Shrake" wrote: [Add-on joysticks on Arcadia] Isn't that subject mentioned in your FAQ, too? > I doubt a "spinner" was on their list of hot items > to include? You hardware guys feel free to correct me, Sorry to disappoint you, but no way for a spinner. Well, you can think of a poti (short for potentiometer; is this a common short form in english too?) without a stop, but that would only be of academic interest, nothing useful. > but I think they took more wires to implement, > even on Atari's own "Driving Controller"? Don't know for sure, but i guess it works like the sensors in a (computer) mouse. And then it's GND, X, Xqualify. Plus, the hardware inside the Arcadia wouldn't allow for such things... > A paddle control, ala early Pong systems, makes much > more logical sense to me, And it's the only thing the hardware 'inside' can do. > For certain games like Circus, I'm betting the original > consoles those games were written for, had potentiometer- > based joysticks. And the Arcadia doesn't have that > "continuous change of resistance" type of joystick; > it is closer to a button-only type of controller. Mini-HowTO of PVI/UVI joysticks: Interton VC400: XY-Poti (bad: resistance measurement only, not voltage measurement. saves one wire, but causes trouble when potis get dirty.) Elektor: dito (interestingly, they recommend to use a 'digital' interpretation of the joystick values. Too big were the tolerances, remember people might have used whatever potis they had laying around at the workbench... Palladium: also analog joysticks. And i say they were designed by the same guy who was guilty of designing the Interton earlier... (same should be true for all systems that have 'thick' controllers) Arcadia (and other 'flat' systems): They have switch-type controlers, much like Atari joysticks or Sega/Nintendo game pads. Every switch shorts out a resistor of a voltage divider, giving different voltages at the UVI's joystick input. (The reality is a bit more complicated; who is interested in The Truth[TM] should have a look in the emerson service manual.) > If you play Circus on the Arcadia, as I did just > days ago, it appears that the game only registers > three positions; left, middle and right edges. No wonder. See above. > I'm betting the ports in the back, if they had a > potentiometer with the right resistance values in it, > would give smoother motion, and more positions possible, > making the game much more playable? Ouch... very well possible. Has anyone tried Circus on the Palladium? So the next step is butcher a walkman headphone lead into a paddle controller, getting an Arcadia Paddle... Actually, the Arcadia 'Expansion' ports *have* three contacts. The question is: do we need them all, and where shall we connect each, or is 'number three' just the switch over (paddle plugged in: use paddle; paddle unplugged: use internal direction pad). Side note: I keep reading the arcadia has 16-way joypads. Seems it's only eight... [sorry, don't have Word at hand: is the 16-way thing in the current FAQ/guide, or not?] -mc 1046 From: Peter Trauner Date: Wed Nov 20, 2002 7:32pm Subject: Re: Re: Black and white video problem grumpfix mc71de wrote: >Arcadia (and other 'flat' systems): They have switch-type >controlers, much like Atari joysticks or Sega/Nintendo game pads. >Every switch shorts out a resistor of a voltage divider, giving >different voltages at the UVI's joystick input. (The reality is a >bit more complicated; who is interested in The Truth[TM] should have >a look in the emerson service manual.) > > Thanks. Should help on some games control emulation. >>I'm betting the ports in the back, if they had a >>potentiometer with the right resistance values in it, >>would give smoother motion, and more positions possible, >>making the game much more playable? >> >> > >Ouch... very well possible. Has anyone tried Circus on the >Palladium? So the next step is butcher a walkman headphone lead into >a paddle controller, getting an Arcadia Paddle... > > Tested on real hardware: on VCG "circus" can be placed on "any" position like expected (normal paddle behaviour). Peter 1047 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 21, 2002 7:52am Subject: Re: Black and white video problem commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: (snip) > Tested on real hardware: on > VCG "circus" can be placed > on "any" position like expected > (normal paddle behaviour). > > Peter Hey, PeT, do me a favor... if you have a console handy, what's the resistance value of the pot on that system? I'm currently curious enough to want to make a quick-and-dirty, homebrew paddle controller for my Arcadia, and see if any of the early Palladium-type games will work better with that controller. -- Ward Shrake -- 1048 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 21, 2002 8:04am Subject: Expansion ports and internal wiring commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Matt Reichert" wrote: > But wouldn't most paddle games > require a fire button? > > Tempest Sorry, that would be logical, and therefore, has no connection to this console or any of its relatives. You guys should know that. :-) Two wires is two wires... and internally, that is all that I recall seeing as being hooked up. (Whether or not those connectors had a provision for three wires.) With two wires, you can have either one pushbutton function -- which makes zero sense, since there are already far more buttons on the existing controllers than most games ever used -- or you can have one plain potentiometer. And that's it. I'll probably crack open my console, soon, for the heck of it, and see what is really there, but I doubt I'm wrong on the number of wires being hooked up. (I would not have written it that way in DPCG7, without physically double-checking it, at the time.) As to another question, asking what is or isn't in the FAQ... who knows, any more. I don't! A lot of hardware stuff is half-there, since I was counting on outside help, and that didn't always come. (Most of these consoles, I have never laid eyes on, in person.) I looked at the Arcadia FAQ recently, and saw just blank spaces in some places, where I started to work on things, but did not have enough good, tested, verified info to include anything there yet. (As of six months or so ago.) In particular, the notes on what carts looked like, inside. Some of that made it into the DPCG7 -- about what PC boards were in what cases, on Emerson consoles, for instance -- but most of it is still sitting in unsifted, untested, random-notes mode, on my hard drive. Which is, as you know, in storage. So I'm working from personal memory, and a library computer, and doing the best I can, guys. So the reality is, that info won't be in there for the foreseeable, if it is not in there now. I can't even get easy access to my own personal computer, to hook it up and read my old notes, at present. -- Ward Shrake -- 1049 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Thu Nov 21, 2002 1:17pm Subject: Re: Black and white video problem amigansoftware > For certain games like Circus, I'm betting the original consoles > those games were written for, had potentiometer-based joysticks. And > the Arcadia doesn't have that "continuous change of resistance" type > of joystick; it is closer to a button-only type of controller. > > If you play Circus on the Arcadia, as I did just days ago, it appears > that the game only registers three positions; left, middle and right > edges. I'm betting the ports in the back, if they had a potentiometer > with the right resistance values in it, would give smoother motion, > and more positions possible, making the game much more playable? Interesting. So the Palladium controllers and the Arcadia controllers have considerable differences between them then? I managed to get smooth movement in Circus (slightly patched version) under Paul Robson's "2001 Emulator", but not under MESS. I assumed this was because of the "dodgy controller emulation" of MESS, but apparently this happens on the real Arcadia too? That would explain why it was not released on Arcadia... 1050 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 2:42am Subject: Re: OT: question related to the Supervision system dieterk_ccc That's what I have in my collection. All are by Hartung (German versions): SV100/?? Crystball SV100/?? Earth Defender SV100/?? Kabi Island SV100/?? Treasure Hunter SV100/?? Pyramid SV100/01 Block Buster SV100/02 Hash Blocks SV100/04 Carrier SV100/09 Sssnake SV100/10 Alien SV100/14 Police Bust SV100/16 Chimera SV100/18 Honey Bee SV100/20 Matta Blatta SV100/21 Grand Prix SV100/24 2-In-1: Hash Blocks/Eagle Plan SV100/25 Jaguar Bomber SV100/31 Final Combat Hope this helps a bit, Dieter 1051 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 2:45am Subject: Re: OT: question related to the Supervision system stefanpiasecki > SV100/?? Crystball > SV100/?? Earth Defender > SV100/?? Kabi Island > SV100/?? Treasure Hunter > SV100/?? Pyramid > SV100/01 Block Buster > SV100/02 Hash Blocks > SV100/04 Carrier > SV100/09 Sssnake > SV100/10 Alien > SV100/14 Police Bust > SV100/16 Chimera > SV100/18 Honey Bee > SV100/20 Matta Blatta > SV100/21 Grand Prix > SV100/24 2-In-1: Hash Blocks/Eagle Plan > SV100/25 Jaguar Bomber > SV100/31 Final Combat Thanks Dieter, which ones are cool and must-haves? Any idea? Stefan 1052 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Nov 21, 2002 9:22pm Subject: Re: Re: Black and white video problem grumpfix Ward Shrake wrote: >Hey, PeT, do me a favor... if you have a console handy, what's the >resistance value of the pot on that system? I'm currently curious >enough to want to make a quick-and-dirty, homebrew paddle controller >for my Arcadia, and see if any of the early Palladium-type games will >work better with that controller. > Palladium circuit diagram: 680kOhm (linear?) +5v -- 15kOhm -- poti 680 kOhm -- uvi2637 messured horicontal 840kOhm, vertical 760kOhm Peter Note: although the production dates of some chips on my palladium board are late 82, it seams to be an early version, and different to the circuit diagram (4x2112 instead of 2x2114) 1053 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:31am Subject: Re: Expansion ports and internal wiring commie_fan PeT: Thanks for the controller info. It should help us all figure out some stuff, about the families, over time. All: I just uploaded a long-ish text, about what I learned last night about the "rear auxiliary controller jacks" as Emerson referred to them. See it in the files section, under "hardware information". I put it up in both Word and ASCII formats, just in case. -- Ward Shrake -- 1054 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:35am Subject: Re: Black and white video problem commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: (snip) > Palladium circuit diagram: 680kOhm (linear?) > > +5v -- 15kOhm -- poti 680 kOhm -- uvi2637 > > messured horicontal 840kOhm, vertical 760kOhm > > Peter Could you verify something for me; is that 15k or 150k, right after the +5v supply? The reason I ask is, there is a similar thing (as mentioned in the recently uploaded text I just wrote) on the Arcadia, except it is 150k ohms. Either way, it looks like a one-meg pot might be a good way to start experimenting, as the overall values are on the high side? (If one wanted to make a homebrew paddle controller for the Arcadia, I mean.) -- Ward Shrake -- 1055 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 7:27am Subject: Pat, pat, pat on "Paddle" docs atrionfo @Ward: Fantastic job on writing the "paddle" docs. @Everyone: Now, who's going to pick up the ball? Adam 1056 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 8:48am Subject: Re: Expansion ports and internal wiring commie_fan A quick follow-up on the text I uploaded, earlier this morning; I tried a quick test on Circus, via my Leisure-Vision and a multicart. Here's the report... With nothing plugged into the rear ports, there are three possible positions for your character to be standing at, on the bottom of the screen: extreme left, middle, and extreme right. If you do nothing, your guy stays centered. If you move the joystick left, he moves left. If you move the joystick right, he moves to the right. That is all the control you have, making the game unplayable with this type of a controller. (But note that only left-to-right movement is required; no up or down, and no button presses necessary.) I used a non-conducting, small plastic TV tuning screwdriver as a test device, inserting it into the rear port while the game was on the screen and running. This was just because I had one handy. All it did was to move the spring-loaded TIP part of the socket away from the THIRD WIRE part of the socket, internally. In other words, I inserted a fake paddle controller, forcing the built-in "ghost" one out of the loop, electrically speaking. Whenever the fake paddle replaced the ghost paddle, the character moved to the extreme right position, and stayed there. (Technically infinite resistance, as there was no real connection between five volts and the main controller's input line from the rear ports.) I could still get the character to move to the left side, as before, just by moving the main controller's joystick to point to the "left" side. Whenever I released that, so that the main controller was set to a "centered" position, the character moved to the extreme right again, thanks to it being tricked into thinking a paddle was plugged into the back, with extremely high resistance "out there". PeT, does that do you any good, as far as emulation goes? (Or anyone else out there, trying to reverse-engineer this funky ancient box?) For what it is worth, I have to admit that some of the design stuff on this console does look pretty slick, from a certain point of view, once you start to grasp why it does what it does, or what the original designers intended. The main controllers, for instance, strike me as a decent design, the more I play with them. Looking at it not from a game-playing perspective, but a console design point of view, with heavy emphasis on cutting costs wherever they could. Anyway, it seems we're making progress in a lot of areas, lately? -- Ward Shrake -- 1057 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:05am Subject: Re: Pat, pat, pat on "Paddle" docs commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > @Ward: Fantastic job on > writing the "paddle" docs. > > @Everyone: Now, who's > going to pick up the ball? > > Adam Heehee... thanks, Adam. And it looks like I'm still "pulling a Ward" on this, for a little bit. Just in that sort of a mood, I guess? Anyway. This is NOT GOSPEL, but so far, my assumption is that the controllers that are built into the machine are identical inside their casings, with the cord that connects them to the PC board being the main thing that is different, between them, making them "left" or "right". (The cables are definitely wired up differently; that much I saw already.) What does this mean? Well, that depends on if my assumptions are correct or not. (And we all know about assumptions, around here!) If they are correct, it means that if the controller on one side breaks, but the other is still good, you may be able to just unscrew four screws from the back side of each controller, unplug a small internal connector where the cable comes into the main controller's casing, and swap the main parts of the controllers from side to side. The cables stay where they are, but the actual parts you touch, move. Again, assuming I'm correct on my assumptions so far -- since I did not trace the wiring completely, inside either of my controllers -- then this means you DO NOT have to buy a new controller, open the main casing, remove the sheet metal RF sheilding, unplug the damaged controller, and replace it with a new one. Instead, you would just do the steps above, and wham-bam, you have a new controller installed. It would make sense from a factory design standpoint, if they felt the cables would not break, but the controllers might be damaged? Any factory repair place could swap out and test a new controller quickly, if the body of the "permanently attached" controller was meant to be a single, generic, one-side-fits-all, replacement part? -- Ward Shrake -- 1058 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:12am Subject: Re: Black and white video problem commie_fan (Following up / explaining an earlier post I made) PeT: No offense, but one reason I'm asking about the resistor being 15k or 150k, is that the math does not seem to add up, in the example you gave. For instance, if a variable resistor was in series with a fixed resistor, I don't see how 15k + 680k adds up to a measured 840k? Nor does 15k + 680k seem to add up well to a measured 760k? Again, no offense, and hey, maybe I'm just full of it. It happens. If it really is 150k ohms, that makes more sense to me. And with the resistance readings you got, it makes things look more hopeful for the next steps... since Atari 2600 paddles are easy to find, cheap, come in pairs, and both have 1,000,000 ohm (1 meg) variable resistors inside them. (I have not checked if they are audio or linear taper, though, so don't anyone read this as anything but idle talk, for now.) Assuming every future thing worked out, it looks like MAYBE an adapter cable or box could be made, to go between an unmodified Arcadia family console, and an unmodified pair of Atari 2600 paddles, so that the Arcadia could have the planned-but-unreleased paddles? Again, nobody get their hopes up just yet... this is all preliminary. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner > wrote: > (snip) > > Palladium circuit diagram: 680kOhm (linear?) > > > > +5v -- 15kOhm -- poti 680 kOhm -- uvi2637 > > > > messured horicontal 840kOhm, vertical 760kOhm > > > > Peter > > > Could you verify something for me; is that 15k or 150k, right after > the +5v supply? The reason I ask is, there is a similar thing (as > mentioned in the recently uploaded text I just wrote) on the Arcadia, > except it is 150k ohms. > > Either way, it looks like a one-meg pot might be a good way to start > experimenting, as the overall values are on the high side? (If one > wanted to make a homebrew paddle controller for the Arcadia, I mean.) > > -- Ward Shrake -- 1059 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 9:28am Subject: Re: Black and white video problem commie_fan A quick follow-up to the follow-up, but directed at everyone, this time... One big thing that may trip up the idea of playing certain games well, on a console that does not have the correct type of controls, is that even if we manage to perfectly replace the Left-to-Right movement part of things on the Arcadia console, using homebrew paddle controllers, that there MAY still be some games that want Up-and-Down paddles as well as Left-to-Right. And if that turns out to be the case, then there is no easy way to retrofit or add them onto an unmodified Arcadia box, that I can currently see. So this solution may turn out to be a half-solution, after all. So the next question, from me to the group, seems to be "what games that started out on the Palladium or the MPT-03 or the Ormatu, do not seem to work correctly with the Arcadia family?" And then we can narrow things down further, asking "which of those only require that there be continuous, smooth, paddle-like control from left-to-right, and which ones seem to require paddle-like up-and-down motions"? Circus obviously seems to fall within the "might be playable later" category. What about the car and tank games, that right now, seem to be really hard to play, on an Arcadia machine? -- Ward Shrake -- 1060 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 1:18pm Subject: Expansion ports and wiring commie_fan Another follow-up; the last for today. I tried some more games, just now, and it looks like most of them respond with a "move to the right" motion, whenever you momentarily insert a fake paddle controller input into the rear ports. It does it intermittently, right along with your attempts to trick the machine; as I insert the cheating plug, it moves. It stops when I take it out. As I noted before, I assume this happens because the apparent resistance at that port is maxxed out or infinite, or "no connection," without any kind of a real potentiometer actually hanging out there to allow some voltage to make it back inside again. So I guess the next step is to make a funky adapter cable up, between a standard paddle for some other game console, and the Arcadia, and to see how well it works. No idea on when that will happen, or if it will happen, given my current situation, with virtually everything sitting in storage. I may do it, but there is no promise of it, as I don't want to have to go through dozens of boxes to find the parts I need. But you never know how the "pull a Ward" mood will strike me, either. -- Ward Shrake -- 1061 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri Nov 22, 2002 6:15pm Subject: Re: Re: Black and white video problem grumpfix Hello Ward, >PeT: No offense, but one reason I'm asking about the resistor being >15k or 150k, is that the math does not seem to add up, in the example >you gave. For instance, if a variable resistor was in series with a >fixed resistor, I don't see how 15k + 680k adds up to a measured >840k? Nor does 15k + 680k seem to add up well to a measured 760k? > > I measured directly on the potentiometer on the disconnected pad. I measured them with a digital multimeter so the exactness of the values is low. (measuring on the plug will only give the currently adjusted value (and what are the "mechanical" minimum and maximum?)) I would simply use one of the following: 1M, 820KOhm or 680KOhm. (and change when the "area" is too small on the screen or the angle on the paddle too small) The 15KOhm is internal in the console, and here are the VCG and the Arcadia complete different. Peter 1062 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:27am Subject: Re: Expansion ports and wiring commie_fan As you guys probably expected that I would, I stayed up late last night, broke out my soldering iron, and actually tried hooking a paddle controller up to my Leisure-Vision. It works... sort of. A full report will have to wait until more bugs are ironed out, and some new observations are made sense of, but in general, it looks like I / we are onto something. At this point, feel free to jump in, guys, as I've probably done just about all I can do, without outside technical observations, etc. My test device is an Atari 2600 paddle controller pair, with an extra cable running out of one of them, to hook up to the Arcadia family. It works fine on both machines, since there are three legs or pins that come out of the bottom of the potentiometer, and each machine uses a seperate half, as it were. (Both machines want you to hook one wire to the center leg. Atari's paddles use the left outer leg, Arcadia uses the right. The pot is labeled as a 1 meg ohm device, but I'm not 100% sure if it is audio or linear taper.) Lots of games allowed me to move left and right with the paddle, although some did so better than others. It appears that there are a few different "classes" of games now -- another thing we have to keep track of; just what we all needed, right? -- based on what console the game was originally written for, and what type of controllers they had. (We just this week confirmed that there are different controller types on them all, to my satisfaction. It is appearing, so far, that there may have been at least three distinct controller types, now?) Circus plays much better now. You can move to every spot along the bottom, smoothly, with this homebrew paddle: not just left, center and right. With this pot, you are only using about ninety degrees of knob travel, to move from side to side. Control is very, very fast with this set-up, and precision is not bad either, as far as being able to pick where you stop, or make small movements. The game is still very difficult to play, since you can easily let one guy land on the outer edge of the board, where his partner will be thrown so far off to the side that you can't move over enough to catch him, and he gets splattered. The main downside is that the game requires a fire button press to start, so you have to hold the main and paddle controllers in your hand at once, or you won't be fast enough to start the game, and actually catch the first guy who jumps. Breakaway still sucks. I had high hopes that with a paddle, the game would respond faster. Nope. No matter how fast you spin the knob to the other side, you get the same "stuck in molasses in winter" movement of your paddle, which is frequently far too slow to actually catch the ball. (As I recall, the first printed reviews of this game said it sucked due to controller response times... and yup, it still does.) Games like "Monaco Grand Prix" still work as badly as ever, control- wise. I can't get the cars to move from their extreme-right starting positions, at all, with a paddle. (And the standard Arcadia controllers are not much better; it is obvious some third controller type was originally used on Palladium family consoles? Or at least, that's my opinion at this point.) Auto Race works better, but is still mostly unplayable. The paddle does steer the car, but it has severe oversteer. This may be because the pot's resistance value is not correct, for this type of a game? Combat works reasonably well with the paddle, but I like the standard Arcadia controls better with it. My guess, so far, based on what I've seen recently, is that the Arcadia and the MPT-03 and the Palladium consoles all have controllers that work slightly different. The Arcadia controller uses a digital, button-press type of controller, even on the joystick portion. I suspect that the Palladium and MPT-03 both have an analog, pot-based, X-Y joystick section, though maybe with different resistance values and/or internal make-up. (The Palladium may be set up sort of rotated-diagonally, as compared to the Arcadia controller? Or vice-versa, depending on how you look at it? "Monaco Grand Prix" in particular makes me think so.) -- Ward Shrake -- 1063 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 23, 2002 4:32am Subject: Re: Black and white video problem commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: (snip) > I would simply use one of the > following: 1M, 820KOhm or 680KOhm. > (and change when the "area" is too > small on the screen or the angle on > the paddle too small) Agreed; my first test unit uses 1M, for now. I do understand how to put two resistors in parrallel, too, to lower the overall resistance. I'd say that anyone trying to build a really fancy pot to play with, might want to start on the highest side, and put a second pot in parallel with it, to trim overall resistance down, as needed. Then again, that's probably getting ahead of where we need to be, given that we haven't even observed the real machines all that much, or figured out audio-vs-linear taper, and so on. -- Ward Shrake -- 1064 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sat Nov 23, 2002 8:59am Subject: Re: Expansion ports and wiring stefanpiasecki Hi Ward, good to have you around again... --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > As you guys probably expected that I would, I stayed up late last > night, broke out my soldering iron, and actually tried hooking a > paddle controller up to my Leisure-Vision. Great > track of; just what we all needed, right? -- based on what console > the game was originally written for, and what type of controllers > they had. (We just this week confirmed that there are different > controller types on them all, to my satisfaction. It is appearing, so > far, that there may have been at least three distinct controller > types, now?) Well, I thought we all knew, the Palladium family has analog controllers and so does the MPT-03 family. So much is clear. But the Palladium uses at least 3 different controllers (internally): Up to now I had about 8 different Palladium machines and all controllers were horrible up to some point. They always directly moved to the right and never centered, so playing games like Breakaway was not much fun. However, I managed to find one of the later models and this one is perfect. The joystick auto-centers and playing games like Breakaway with this controller indeed is fun at last. > Games like "Monaco Grand Prix" still work as badly as ever, control- > wise. I can't get the cars to move from their extreme-right starting > positions, at all, with a paddle. (And the standard Arcadia > controllers are not much better; it is obvious some third controller > type was originally used on Palladium family consoles? Or at least, > that's my opinion at this point.) You have to use the numeric keys to decrease speed and turn the car. The complete game is played with those numeric keys. Should I scan the manual? > My guess, so far, based on what I've seen recently, is that the > Arcadia and the MPT-03 and the Palladium consoles all have > controllers that work slightly different. The Arcadia controller uses > a digital, button-press type of controller, even on the joystick > portion. I suspect that the Palladium and MPT-03 both have an analog, > pot-based, X-Y joystick section, though maybe with different > resistance values and/or internal make-up. (The Palladium may be I think this is the case. Even amongst the Palladium-family those joysticks always work a bit different. Although once you get a fine working controller this system can be much fun Stefan 1065 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Nov 24, 2002 7:14am Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan Russ: Any new word on this? Time's ticking away... a week has gone by already, since I first said there'd be a "closing window of opportunity" regarding my ability to archive some carts, again. If we are going to do it, sooner beats later. If we're definitely not going to do it, please let me know that, too. (Either way is fine by me.) All: Do we have any other unarchived carts out there, that folks may be willing to mail to me, on an archiving loan? If not, again, that's OK... I just want to be able to plan for things, either way. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > > At 8:49 PM +0000 11/15/02, Ward Shrake wrote: > (snip) > > > And remember, there is a > > > "window of opportunity" > > > here... I won't be able > > > to do them forever, so > > > now's the time! > > > > How much time? Maybe I'll > > just dig out those two carts > > and that's it for the time being? > > > As soon as possible, or "sooner rather than later". I'd say within > the next 2 to 4 weeks. After that, things get way too "iffy" for me. > > -- Ward Shrake -- 1066 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Nov 24, 2002 2:22pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving slapdash26 At 8:14 PM +0000 11/23/02, Ward Shrake wrote: >Russ: Any new word on this? Time's ticking away... a week has gone by >already, since I first said there'd be a "closing window of >opportunity" regarding my ability to archive some carts, again. If we >are going to do it, sooner beats later. If we're definitely not going >to do it, please let me know that, too. (Either way is fine by me.) I still hope to, but I haven't found the time to box up the carts. I do need to make at least one trip to the post office before the holiday, so hopefully I can box them up tomorrow and get them on the way. Contact me privately if your address has changed from the PO Box you had in July... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1067 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Mon Nov 25, 2002 8:25am Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: (snip) > I still hope to, but I haven't found the time to box up the carts. > I do need to make at least one trip to the post office before the > holiday, so hopefully I can box them up tomorrow and get them on the > way. Contact me privately if your address has changed from the PO > Box you had in July... I'm pretty sure you have the latest info, but just in case, it is: Ward Shrake P.O. Box 5182 West Covina, CA 91791 If anyone wants to loan me carts, later on, please contact me first here or in private e-mail, to see if I have the time and resources to do anything with the carts, archiving-wise. I have to play things by ear, basically, in those departments, for the foreseeable future. -- Ward Shrake -- 1068 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:13pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving slapdash26 Ward, I'll be sending the carts tomorrow. Happy dumping! -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1069 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 8:42pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving stefanpiasecki Good morning, if Russ sends you his Dr. Slump and Doraemon carts then what's missing is my Boxing cart, right? Will he also send the other missing Bandai carts? I guess I will ask PeT if he can dump Boxing for me (Peter, is this okay with you?), comes cheaper and faster for all of us. I know Clemens "mc71" is also working on a solution to help me do it, but I don't have time at the moment, so probably PeT could jump in. Stefan 1070 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Nov 27, 2002 8:56pm Subject: Paul Holmes Interview stefanpiasecki Good morning all, please find below the complete Paul Holmes interview. I didn't edit it in any way (except adding one single remark), so you are having a look at the complete content. Unfortunately Paul wasn't able to tell us that much about the later days of the 2650 (the Arcadia days) but he covers many aspects of the early days, the very early days. I will now take these questions to also contact the T?rk-brothers again. Next to this I am trying to track down former Schmid employees, but this seems to be difficult. However, have fun. Stefan ##### Dear Stefan - Some background information, plus a brief reply and update... First, as to my involvement with microprocessors in general and the 2650 in particular. In the late 1970's and early 1980's I was "Chief of design" for Elektuur/Elektor, and then took over as "Editor-in-chief", for all (international) editions of Elektuur/Elektor. You can imagine that I was rather busy. We were already working on the "SCAMP" and "Junior Computer" when the 2650 project came up. Philips offered us the complete basic hardware design plus software; they had originally intended to market it themselves, but when that project was shelved they thought that publication in Elektor was the next best thing. Since (a) our microprocessor experts were already busy with the other two machines and (b) I considered this design the first truly interesting "general- amateur" application of microcomputers, I decided to take it on myself. At that time, my knowledge of microprocessors was virtually zero, but I got the hang of it quickly. In many ways it was "learn as you publish" - which is one of the reasons why we originally advised programmers to "block all interrupts"... they caused me too much trouble. As I had expected, we were soon flooded with simple basic games software. The first batch that we released were often *very* basic, but I soon got ahead of the field (burning the midnight oil! ###or "pulling the Ward" as we'd call it today; Stefan### ), and was able to vastly improve later releases. The Atari games served as an example of what could be done - without us realising that it was actually a very similar machine! If memory serves me, we released at least three (audio) cassettes with about ten games each, plus a 45 RPM record. Then the IBM PC came over the horizon, and our interest in the 2650 waned. We released some further hardware updates, published the book (including the monitor listing, after an intriguing fight with Philips - but that's another story, if you're interested?!), and I personally kept a trickle of games coming out. I heard vaguely about the Interton machine, and someone even sent me a few games cassettes, but we never pursued that angle. My personal interest diversified. I wrote the lengthy supplement comparing the various 16-bit processors that were being announced, and bought a Philips P2000T. That was Z80-based, with a BASIC interpreter, and after cracking the code in the interpreter I wrote many machine-language programs (mainly games) and several general-purpose programs in BASIC. I'm still rather proud of the fact that I wrote a spreadsheet program for it, less than a year after Lotus created the basic concept! In 1985 I left Elektor. Since then I spent more time on the P2000T, and then "graduated" (reluctantly) to the INTEL-PC family. In summary, therefore: - when I wrote the articles (and the book) on the 2650, I was still learning. Also, I was very busy with other matters. I didn't attempt to look for similar machines on the market; not even when we were pointed towards Interton. - once I had reached the point where I could make the extended TV games computer "sit up and beg" (e.g. writing an extensive knight-in-maze program with castles, dragons, puzzles, sound effects and three complete polyphonic wedding marches, all fitting well inside the 3 3/4 KByte RAM...), I switched to other machines. - I left Elektor in 1985, and have had very little contact with them since However... a few years ago, we moved house. At that time, I trashed the hardware. I *thought* I kept the software listings and tapes... but, having spent quite a while searching over the last weekend, I am beginning to fear the worst. At that time, of course, the software was handwritten (no printer!), and so far I have only come up with printed P2000T listings. I only found one cassette; regrettably, the first - with the most primitive games. Maybe, somewhere ... I might find the rest ... but I fear the worst. Now, to your questions and comments. Answering mainly from memory: > Your German is almost perfect ... Good to know I haven't forgotten that! > ... but I plan to bring parts of this mail and your answers to certain questions > online, if > you agree. No problem, if it's any use. Go ahead! > Another guy, Adam Trionfo, is trying to understand the machine and even > programmed several sample programs. Another German collector, Max Clemens, > has in-depth technical knowledge of this and other game-machines. Perhaps I could help them? You have my e-mail address. > ... for games ported over to the Arcadia, if we ever find the missing info that > would enable us to > program a complete game. Hmmm. To get the best out of these old machines (with very limited RAM), you will have to re-think any games. You can "port" the basic idea, but the final version will have to be machine-oriented. That means omitting some elements, and adding others. > ... classics like Space Taxi (1984) ... I teach games-design at > the games-academy in Berlin. For me as a believer in simple but powerful > elements that can bring a game forward it would also be a great lesson in > "sizing down" and concentrating on what really counts: gameplay. Aha! A man after my own heart. I could not agree more fully. > Which brings me to an interesting point: what if we take a modern game, rewrite > the concept so that the game will keep its original elements and port it > over to the Arcadia with your help and maybe the help of some Interton > programmers like H.H. Bieling (no active programming intended, just help and > advise) and make a series of articles for Elektor out of it - "games design > through the ages". I mean, your generation started it all, my generation > brings it to perfection. I believe that it might be interesting for Elektuur ... a) Provide me with the hardware, and I'd be delighted to do "active programming"! b) I could provide "help and advice". But "active programming" is probably easier... c) As mentioned above, I have no ties with Elektor. d) "Your generation" makes me feel old. But you're probably right. Further to that: e) I currently teach electronics. I often tell my students that we electronics experts made one major mistake: we thought that developing software was such a simple matter that we could turn it over to lesser beings - software designers. Which led to disaster: umpteen MegaBytes of program code ... less reliable and much slower than what we ourselves could and would have done. > TECHNICAL DEPARTMENT > Do you have any of the following documents or informations that you could > copy for us? > 1) Any 2637 docs > 2) Memory map of the Arcadia > 3) English version of the book "TV-Spielcomputer" > 4) Any source code available (on cassette tape or printout)? 1) No; 2) No; 3) Yes, my own copy. The original text (all others were translations); 4) Still looking, but very little so far. > ADMINISTRATIONAL THINGS REGARDING WORLDWIDE DISTRIBUTION OF GAMES AND > SYSTEMS > 1) You obviously have been involved in the Elektuur TV-Computer and possibly > the Interton. What exactly did you do? Some person at Elektor mentioned that > relatives of yours worked or work at Philips in the research area. Have they > been invloved with the 2650? For what I did: see above. As to my "relatives": my father was deputy director in charge of the development of gas discharge lighting, and never touched a computer in his life. My brother was (and is) a loudspeaker designer, and highly skilled in audio design - he *uses* computers. > 1a) Do you know what the main purpose of the 2650 was? Surely not a > games-processor. You mentioned military roots and that the processor wasn't > officially known in the US due to its military links. A simple question that deserves a ten-page answer... Very briefly: At that time, several manufacturers were designing 8-bit processors. An 8-bit opcode limits you to 256 basic instructions, so you have to choose. INTEL went for data-base oriented (lots of addressing modes, primitive and basic program flow); SIGNETICS opted for computation-based, with extensive conditional program flow and an extremely logical and straightforward instruction set. (And ZILOG used a cunning trick to work in almost twice as many instructions for their Z80.) Now we come to hearsay. When I was over in The States to promote a US-edition of Elektor, I talked to one of the main component distributors. I mentioned the TV games computer, with its Signetics chip. He was astonished: "Signetics don't make microprocessors!". I insisted that we were using the Signetics 2650. He came back to me the next day: "How on earth did you get hold of those chips? They're low-level classified: the total production is supplied to the military. They're certainly not available on the US market!" We then *assumed* the following scenario: The military evaluated all available microprocessors. Signetics won. The military required almost their total production capacity. However, to supply a guaranteed 1000 chips, any manufacturer will produce at least 1100; the 100 leftovers are insufficient for the US market, so they are shipped to Europe. Sounds plausible? > 1b) ... a 2650/ 2636 combo-card was used by the Italian (?) company Zaccaria I don't know anything about that one. But it fits the above scenario. > 2) The whole Interton/Arcadia mess ... > Is this list correct, or almost right or did we forget anything of > importance? Do you know anything about the latter machines? a) Sorry - I don't know about the other machines. b) I *think* Elektor published before Interton's machine. Bear in mind that we first published articles; the book came later. I can look up the exact publishing date - I still have those old copies. > 2a) Was there a relationship between the home-built computer, the Interton > and the Arcadia? It must be more than a coincidence that all were based on > almost the same hardware and that even games could have been made > compatible? I really don't know. Great minds think alike? Atari was certainly one of the first - they were in the arcades long before we published. > 2b) Was Elektor involved with the making of the Interton/Arcadia.. No - not to my knowledge. We got the info from Philips. I *think* Atari was earlier, and Interton was later. Interton may have got the idea from us (?). > 3) It appears that Philip's daughter Signetics developed and manufactured > the chips. Can you tell us anything more about the links between Signetics > and Philips? Basically: Philips bought Signetics around that time. Signetics had already developed the chips, and Philips didn't really know what to do with them. Philips is a *hardware*-oriented company... they weren't really interested in software. > 3a) How was Signetics involved with the home-built computer? Were they > involved with the Arcadia? Or did they just produce an overstock of 2650's > that were then sold to others, being Elektor and it's articles just another > sales-channel? Probably. Or, in our case, read Philips. > 4) The games: ... comparing ... the Arcadia and Interton family ... Can you agree > and comment on this? Without any "inside" information: in those days, we games designers often looked at the on-screen efforts of others. Obviously, we would emulate anything that looked interesting, game-wise. At Elektor, we didn't copy anyone elses code, but I can't speak for other games designers... > 5) ... Andrew Choi. Have you ever heard of the Hong Kong based developer UA Ltd.? No - never heard of either. > 6) It seems that the first 2637 specific 2650 machines ... Sorry - no info on this. > 7) Was Philips directly involved in these machines? I doubt it. As I said above: Philips was hardware-oriented. Their basic philosophy (carried over to the P2000T) was: "We'll provide the hardware - let others provide the software". > 8) Can you remember how the licensees were found and contacted? No... > 9) If you know anything about the licensees... I don't. > 10) ... You've lost me. > 11) Can you remember of specific events or market changes that influenced > certain decisions or developments? Ditto. > 12) Some companies worked on the same markets: Schmid and Hanimex ... Ditto. > ELEKTUUR TV-COMPUTER / INTERTON SPECIAL QUESTIONS > 1) Homecomputer/ Hocosoft in D?sseldorf was a long-term distributor of > Elektor kits and software. Have they been in any way independent in > choosing, developing and distributing the games for the systems? No - we supplied. > 2) How many tapes/games did HoCo-Soft sell (different tapes / quantities)? > Have they been independent or were they a "brand" of Elektuur? They supplied ours. > 3) there's an Interton Emulator available. This emulator does have > tape-support, although this wasn't tested yet. Do you think you could > digitize the tapes in WAV-format for us to test? ??? I don't know. > 4) in an recent interview, Interton developer H.H. Bieling .... No idea... > 4a) Bieling as well as the T?rk brothers (Interton bosses) ... No idea... > 5) in the Elektor magazines ... Did Elektor/Elektuur indeed not know anything more > concrete No - we didn't! > 6) the VC4000 contains a noise generator. A book (Frech-Verlag, author was > H. Bernstein) described this device. Did this device also come from Philips? > Is there a reason why Elektor didn't mention this? Was it because it came > from another publisher? We had our own noise generator - as an extension. I don't know about the other. > 7) do you know how Interton came across the VC4000? No... > 8) Do you know who holds the rights to the games and the hardware? No. But I doubt whether anyone would still worry! That's it for tonight - or, rather, this morning earty! Keep in touch - Kind regards - Paul Holmes 1071 From: slapdash@... Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 2:43am Subject: Re: Re: Cartridge archiving slapdash26 Quoting Stefan Piasecki : > if Russ sends you his Dr. Slump and Doraemon carts then what's > missing is my Boxing cart, right? Will he also send the other missing > Bandai carts? I'm not sure how you mean this... I don't have any of the other carts that are unique to Bandai, as much as I've tried to find them (I've had the box for Gundam for YEARS but no cart to match :-(, ugh). I do have a couple other Bandai carts, but am not sending them at this time. Maybe in the future, just to see if they're any different than the Emerson et al ones... Russ ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 1072 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 4:17am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview commie_fan Good job, Stefan! Great job, in fact. I for one am impressed! Please bug him about the dates on those magazine articles. I'd like to include the info in my FAQ's timeline text, to help us all better grasp who did what, when, and so on. -- Ward Shrake -- 1073 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 4:21am Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan Stefan: Russ and I were both clear on that point, but it is one of those little tid-bits that other folks seem to forget, over time. (That Russ only had the box, and not the cart, to one of the other Bandai titles.) I wasn't expecting anything but Dr. Slump and Doraemon. I don't think Boxing is missing at all? I dumped the Ormatu version, ages ago... unless you're telling me you have a second boxing game? All: My archiving have / want list is on my web site, which of course can be found listed in this group's links section. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., slapdash@e... wrote: > Quoting Stefan Piasecki : > > if Russ sends you his Dr. Slump and Doraemon carts then what's > > missing is my Boxing cart, right? Will he also send the other missing > > Bandai carts? > > I'm not sure how you mean this... I don't have any of the other carts > that are unique to Bandai, as much as I've tried to find them (I've > had the box for Gundam for YEARS but no cart to match :-(, ugh). I do > have a couple other Bandai carts, but am not sending them at this time. > Maybe in the future, just to see if they're any different than the > Emerson et al ones... > > Russ > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 1074 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 6:45am Subject: Re: OT: question related to the Supervision system dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Thanks Dieter, which ones are cool and must-haves? Any idea? > Stefan To be honest Stefan, I only tried out a few of them, haven't had the time yet to really get into that system. I will let you know as soon as I know more ... Regards, Dieter 1075 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 7:07am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview mc71de Hi Ward, --- "Ward Shrake" wrote: > Good job, Stefan! Great job, in fact. I for one am impressed! > > Please bug him about the dates on those magazine > articles. I'd like to include the info in my FAQ's > timeline text, to help us all better > grasp who did what, when, and so on. > > -- Ward Shrake -- Hey, i can tell you: First article of basic (*not* 'BASIC'!) system in (german!) Elektor #100, 4/1979 (April). And no, it was not an april fool's joke... Elektor has something like that in their so-called 'semiconductor issue' 7/8 every year. (They are on holiday in summer and so they produce a doble issue, which is quite different to the others. In the early years, there were semiconductor (read: ic) circuits; today there are mostly rather small circuits that cover less than a page each, not the usual several-page-long articles... This 'special issue btw. is twice as thick and twice as expensive than other issues. So Elektor has 11 issues/year but is worth (content and money) for 12... Dates of other articles to follow. -mc 1076 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 0:52pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview atrionfo The interview with Paul turned out great. Some good stuff in there: 1) English version of book available. 2) Computer project handed to them for publication in magazine. 3) The Signetics 2650 CPU classified story (true or not, the story is a good read!) 4) Willing to help with a programming project. Some sad stuff: 1) No 2637 documentation. 2) No Arcadia knowledge. Good job Stefan! I'd have more to say (you all know by now that I'm long-winded), but I'm keeping my time near the computer to a minimum because it's Thanksgiving here in the U.S. Adam 1077 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:28pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview commie_fan Another good thing: It seems like Paul Holmes also confirmed that Philips was unlikely to have done the game software, in-house; that fits everything we've seen so far, and makes it look more and more like "UA Limited" was either a spin-off from Philips, or a totally seperate company, with most games being written by contractors. It is just nice to see we were pretty much correct, with the info we had. Once MC or Paul gives us all of the publication dates of certain articles, and hopefully some idea of what games came out when, I am looking forward to putting this stuff into the timeline. And seeing where it fits in, with the list of ROM date codes we have on file. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > The interview with Paul turned out great. Some good stuff > in there: > > 1) English version of book available. > 2) Computer project handed to them for publication in > magazine. > 3) The Signetics 2650 CPU classified story (true or not, > the story is a good read!) > 4) Willing to help with a programming project. > > Some sad stuff: > 1) No 2637 documentation. > 2) No Arcadia knowledge. > > Good job Stefan! > > I'd have more to say (you all know by now that I'm long-winded), but I'm > keeping my time near the computer to a minimum because it's Thanksgiving > here in the U.S. > > Adam 1078 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:45pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan James: remind me, please... did we end up with you saying you CAN positively confirm having held a copy of Super Bug in your hands at some prior point, but do not have it now? If you are vouching for its definite existence, I'll update the "archiving list" accordingly. All: if you have any other changes for the "archiving have and want" list, let me know. I have to update it anyway, to reflect the loan that Russ was/is kind enough to have made, of two Bandai carts. I want to get all the updates I can get, at once, since I have to get my real computer out of storage, to do any of this at all. Russ: I dug out my archiving gear, so I'll be ready when the carts arrive. I'll e-mail you, when they arrive, of course. -- Ward Shrake -- 1079 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:54pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview commie_fan Stefan: is there any chance that you can upload the original text of that interview, into the "News clippings and Interviews" section of the FILES menu? I'm worried that as time goes on, we won't be able to find it again... we are over 1,000 messages now, and climbing rapidly, so having an ASCII stand-alone version there seems sensible. Besides, it'll give us all an excuse to want more interviews. And it would be easier to point future group members and/or new interview-ees to the files section, than it would be to tell them to look through the messages, hoping to find stuff. -- Ward Shrake -- 1080 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 7:20am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview atrionfo Ward wrote: >> Stefan: is there any chance that you can upload the original text of that interview, into the "News clippings and Interviews" section of the FILES menu? I'm worried that as time goes on, we won't be able to find it again... we are over 1,000 messages now, and climbing rapidly, so having an ASCII stand-alone version there seems sensible. >> I was thinking along these lines too, not just with this interview, but with the "better" postings. This may require a little work, but wouldn't it be nice to see the postings that make a "difference" in a newsletter format? It really wouldn't take that long- and would be well worth the trouble down the road. I'll volunteer for the job- if it seems like a good idea to the group. I'd need some help picking postings that seem worthwhile. Perhaps, given the time this weekend, I'll use the Paul Holmes interview as an example of what I mean. Yes, this is my version of staying away from the computer- making a posting a Thanksgiving day. Hey, the wife's reading the paper, the kid is reading a book, and dinner with family isn't for another two and a half hours. What else would you expect me to be doing? Adam 1081 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:54am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview commie_fan All: Like Stefan and Adam, I plan to contribute a little bit more to the "files / interviews" section. I have the original e-mails between myself and Chris Capener, who wrote the game "Funky Fish" for the Arcadia 2001 family. I'll try and work on getting them into printable order, so they'll make sense. When it is done, I'll upload it to the files section, and announce it here in the message section. -- Ward Shrake -- 1082 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 0:54pm Subject: Archiving list -- time for updates commie_fan The "archiving have and want" list is about to go through an update, thanks to the carts that Russ Perry Jr. is loaning me. (Two Bandai carts; "Doraemon" and "Dr. Slump".) The gist of it is included below. If any of you have any corrections, or any relevant observations, just let me know. (Hopefully the formatting won't be killed, here?) -- Ward Shrake -- Archival Date Cart Rarity status Game title made size codes ====================================================================== ======= Archived 3-D Bowling 1982 4k U- 5 Archived 3-D Soccer 1983 8k U 6 Archived Alien Invaders 198_ 4k SC+ 2 Archived American Football 1982 6k U 6 Archived Astro Invader 1982 4k R+ 8 Archived Auto Race 198_ 4k R+ 8 Archived Baseball 1982 4k C+ 3 Archived Basketball 198_ 4k ER 9 Archived Black Jack & Poker 198_ 4k ER 9 Archived Boxing 1982 4k ER 9 Archived Brain Quiz 1982 4k C 4 Archived Breakaway 1982 4k U- 5 Archived Capture 1982 2k SC 2 Archived Cat Trax 1982 4k SC 2 Archived Circus 198_ 4k ER 9 Archived Combat 198_ 4k ER 9 Archived Crazy Climber 1982 4k ER 9 Archived Crazy Gobbler 1982 2k U+ 7 Archived Doraemon 198_ _k ER 9 Archived Dr. Slump 198_ _k ER 9 Archived Escape 1982 4k SC+ 2 Archived Funky Fish 1983 8k ER 9 Archived Golf 198_ 6k ER 9 Archived Grand Prix de Monaco 198_ 4k ER 9 Archived Grand Slam Tennis 1982 8k U 6 Archived Hobo 1983 8k U+ 7 Archived Horse Racing 198_ 4k ER 9 Archived Jump Bug 1982 8k R- 7 Archived Jungler 1982 8k C 4 Archived Missile War 1982 4k U- 5 Archived Nibblemen 198_ 4k ER 9 Archived Ocean Battle 1982 4k U- 5 Archived Panzerspiel 198_ 4k ER 9 Archived Parashooter 1983 4k ER 9 Archived Pleiades 1983 8k U+ 7 Archived R2D Tank 1982 4k U+ 7 Archived Red Clash 1982 4k R 8 Archived Robot Killer 1982 4k R 8 Archived Route 16 1983 8k R 8 Archived Soccer 198_ 4k C 4 Archived Space Attack 1982 4k C+ 3 Archived Space Mission 1982 4k C 4 Archived Space Raiders 1982 4k C+ 3 Archived Space Squadron 1982 4k U 6 Archived Space Vultures 1982 6k U- 5 Archived Spiders 1982 4k U 6 Archived Star Chess 198_ 4k U- 5 Archived Super Gobbler 1982 4k U 6 Archived Tanks A Lot 1982 4k C+ 3 Archived The End 1982 4k U+ 7 Archived Turtles 1982 4k R- 7 Confirmed Mobile Soldier Gundam 198_ _k ER 9 Confirmed Super Bug 198_ _k ER 9 Confirmed Super Dim. Fort. Macross 1983 _k ER 9 Confirmed Video-Lexikon (dictionary) 198_ _k ER 9 Rumored Centipede 198_ _k NR ? Rumored Fun with Math 198_ _k NR ? Rumored Galaga 198_ _k NR ? Rumored Pinball 198_ _k NR ? (End of document) 1083 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 5:15pm Subject: Chris Capener interview commie_fan As promised, the six-months-ago e-mail interview that Michael Davidson and I conducted with Chris Capener, is now online. You can see it in the files section, in the interviews folder. Enjoy! -- Ward Shrake -- 1084 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 5:25pm Subject: Instructions added, for using Ward's multicart commie_fan Apologies if I've said so already, but earlier today, I uploaded the actual Microsoft Word document that explains what DIP switches do what, on my multicart. It is in the files section, under manuals; you'll see it, easily enough. This means that anyone that has one of my multicarts, but loses their instruction sheet, can now print one out without much hassle. (I skipped Thanksgiving Dinner today, and nerded out instead, as other recent postings here will no doubt show.) -- Ward Shrake -- 1085 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 7:41pm Subject: Random observations commie_fan These are just observations of mine... for what they're worth, if anything. Most of this was dreamed up, as I recently read through my personal copy of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" (7.0) book. Apparently, Mattel once had no in-house programmers, so "APH Technologies" wrote the Intellivision game "Space Battles". What does it mean? Maybe nothing, but it is interesting to me that more than one hardware company thought it was fine to put their fate into the hand's of others, at or around the time of the Arcadia's marketing. The Magnavox Oddyssey 2 console had analog controllers, attached more or less permanently to the console itself. The first versions of the Arcadia console group -- Palladium, MPT-03, etc. -- apparently also had analog controllers. The mindset seems to have stuck with them? (Since Philips was the parent company of Magnavox and Signetics, etc.) There were a number of Odyssey 2 games, made outside the United States, that have names very similar to later-made Arcadia games. Maybe that is just because they didn't bother making up original game concepts all that often, and re-hashed lots of (tired) ideas... but maybe, just maybe, there is more of a connection here than it might otherwise appear? Where they sharing source code, doing ports, etc? One title in particular -- "Mousing Cat / Adversaries" -- by Philips for the overseas Odyssey 2 consoles, sounds to me a lot like it may be "Cat Trax" in some prior form? It was done in 1982, in Brazil, according to the guide. (With not much more info supplied.) I think this because that game DID manage to get itself ported to the Atari 2600, during 1983. What if that wasn't the start of a porting trend, but rather, simply a continuation of it? What if Philips had been doing this sort of thing, in-house or via contractor, for a long time with multiple machines? Maybe I'm over-thinking this, but Cat Trax on the Arcadia console had always struck me as a game that sort of popped out of nowhere, right when the parent company needed it to? It wasn't exactly Pac-Man, and it was enough to be a legal clone... but why that particular game? Why that specific game, when so many other legalized games just were chopped up versions, obviously quick-n-dirty efforts? Or was this not the case, and Cat Trax was just a rewrite of Devilman? Who knows. If nothing else, if we can just show that Philips often made a decision on how to handle some problem, by what had worked in the past on one of their other company's software libraries, then we'd be onto something. (Although it would show they were very derivative, that sort of goes without saying, regardless, since there isn't much of an original software coding idea, anywhere in the Arcadia library?) I repeat something I've said, some time before this: I am beginning to suspect that one or more main "pirate" companies that fed the Atari 2600 market, may have been connected in some way with the UAL folks? The more both we and the Atari 2600 guys seem to learn about these consoles and their libraries, the more we are seeing that it may be a small number of companies doing most things, with sub-brands that really were not seperate companies -- but that appeared to be, back in the day -- more or less as a paranoid smoke-screen tactic? We already know that the Arcadia library was spread across four totally seperate, cart-and-slot incompatible consoles that at a glance, have nothing to do with one another, but upon testing, are internally one and the same. (I hope that made sense?) -- Ward Shrake -- 1086 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 9:19pm Subject: Re: Random observations commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: (snip) > Apparently, Mattel once had > no in-house programmers, so > "APH Technologies" wrote the > Intellivision game "Space > Battles". What does it mean? > Maybe nothing, but it is > interesting to me that more > than one hardware company > thought it was fine to put > their fate into the hand's > of others, at or around the > time of the Arcadia's > marketing. Shame on me for forgetting this, but I kept reading the DPCG guide book this evening, and I was reminded by my own Commodore VIC-20 section that there are more companies documented to have used sub- contracted individual programmers to write their games for them. Quoting Jimmy Huey, an Atarisoft programmer, in the VIC-20's entry for the official Atarisoft "Pac-Man" cartridge... "I don't think Atarisoft programmed any of their carts in house. They were all contracted out to 3rd party developers." It appears that Sega may have done much the same? The entry for "Star Trek" included the notation that there was an ASCII message hidden in the ROM code, with a programmer's name and (apparently) phone number. And we just found out about "Tac-Scan," an unreleased-but-apparently- finished game by another outside contractor, planned at some point to be sold through Sega's distribution channels. The point is, more and more (especially after reading the Paul Holmes interview), I am beginning to think that ALL the games by UA Limited were really just games contracted out to various third-parties? -- Ward Shrake -- 1087 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 10:18pm Subject: Fixed version of Jump Bug now available amigansoftware I patched Jump Bug to get around certain bugs in MESS. The unpatched version has the wrong colours, and possibly paddle interpolation at later levels. MESS seems to have incorrect emulation of register $19F9. I'll upload the lightly commented disassembly in a few days. The binary is already uploaded for your enjoyment. >James: remind me, please... did we end up with you saying you CAN >positively confirm having held a copy of Super Bug in your hands at >some prior point, but do not have it now? If you are vouching for >its definite existence, I'll update the "archiving list" accordingly. Ward: Yes, I can definitely vouch for Super Bug :-) But what is the status of "Raumfahrt"? I have seen mention of it in your DPCG articles, including the draft of #8, but it seems to have dropped off the list you posted? 1089 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:08pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > Stefan: > > Russ and I were both clear on that point, but it is one of those > little tid-bits that other folks seem to forget, over time. (That > Russ only had the box, and not the cart, to one of the other Bandai > titles.) I wasn't expecting anything but Dr. Slump and Doraemon. > OK, I lost track about which Bandai games Russ had. I just wanted to know if we would get the chance to have a luck at the other two missing titles. Stefan 1090 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:14pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /News_clippings_and_interviews/paulholmes.doc Uploaded by : stefanpiasecki Description : Interview with Paul Holmes, author of "how to build a 2650 games computer" You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/News_clippings_and_interviews/paulholmes.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, stefanpiasecki 1091 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:17pm Subject: Re: Archiving list -- time for updates stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > The "archiving have and want" list is about to go through an update, > thanks to the carts that Russ Perry Jr. is loaning me. (Two Bandai > carts; "Doraemon" and "Dr. Slump".) The gist of it is included below. > If any of you have any corrections, or any relevant observations, > just let me know. (Hopefully the formatting won't be killed, here?) > > -- Ward Shrake -- > Ha, I can contribute something: both Dr. Slump and Doraemon were developed and released in 1983. The start screen shows such a message. I still have an AVI of both of the games. Anyone interested? Stefan 1092 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:29pm Subject: Re: Random observations stefanpiasecki Your points make sense IMO. Let's have a look at that Turtles game that exists on both the Arcadia and the Odyssey 2. Maybe we could find something interesting if we would compare the code of both? The whole Gobbler(Cattrax/Nibbleman mess is also a mystery to me. If you compare all the carts on every system, Devilman obviously came first. At least in Europe then came Crazy Gobbler, a somewhat reduced version (some features missing), then Super Gobbler (almost the same than Devilman) and at about the same time Cattrx (different from all other PacMan-clones on this system). Other archives (Arcadia) list Cattrax earlier than Super Gobbler, so I would say that Cattrax and the Gobbler/Devilman series represent two different lines. OR maybe for internal demonstration purposes they started with Devilman and when they needed more titles they quickly just changed some parameters to get Crazy Gobbler and Super Gobbler and Cattrax is the real sequel with a new game-play. Somehow all the Gobblers and Devilmans seem to be one family. I would also like to throw another point into the discussion again: the comparison of materials used for the assembly of both the Intellivision and the Arcadia. Compare the controllers and the materials, even the font of "enter" and "clear" seems to be the same. Both words are written with small letters. Isn't this strange? What's inside the INTV? I'd guess that the production plant was the same and maybe the hardware designers. Stefan 1093 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Nov 29, 2002 11:31pm Subject: Re: Fixed version of Jump Bug now available stefanpiasecki > >some prior point, but do not have it now? If you are vouching for > >its definite existence, I'll update the "archiving list" accordingly. > > Ward: Yes, I can definitely vouch for Super Bug :-) But what is the > status of "Raumfahrt"? I have seen mention of it in your DPCG > articles, including the draft of #8, but it seems to have dropped off > the list you posted? "Raumfahrt" is Space Mission. Stefan 1094 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sat Nov 30, 2002 0:52am Subject: More items on Ebay stefanpiasecki Guys, have to part with more items of my collection to buy some more ultra-rare stuff. Just search for the stuff I have online at ebay. My name is "steve-vx". If somebody is interested and wants to avoid bidding wars, just drop me a line quickly. Cheers and have a nice weekend. Stefan 1095 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sat Nov 30, 2002 1:15pm Subject: Re: Fixed version of Jump Bug now available amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > > >some prior point, but do not have it now? If you are vouching for > > >its definite existence, I'll update the "archiving list" > accordingly. > > > > Ward: Yes, I can definitely vouch for Super Bug :-) But what is the > > status of "Raumfahrt"? I have seen mention of it in your DPCG > > articles, including the draft of #8, but it seems to have dropped > off > > the list you posted? > > "Raumfahrt" is Space Mission. > Stefan OK, thanks for that info. The DPCG #8 draft needs to be updated to reflect this... So the unarchived carts would be: the two other Bandai games (Mobile Soldier Gundam and Super Dimension Fortress Macross), Super Bug, Video-Lexikon, and possibly some of the rumoured games. 1096 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sat Nov 30, 2002 4:11pm Subject: Raumfahrt, the guide and archiving commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" (snip) > > "Raumfahrt" is Space Mission. > > Stefan > > OK, thanks for that info. The > DPCG #8 draft needs to be > updated to reflect this... Partially true. There are still multiple, unresolved problems with the "Raumfahrt" game title, in my opinion. So far, I have both SlyDC and Stefan telling me the Palladium family used that for an alias. Fine so far. But that's not good enough for the guide write-up, as it does not tell me which COMPANY used that alias. (Stefan asked for confirmation on that exact question, back in April, but to my knowledge, he never got that info.) So, will anyone positively confirm Raumfahrt as an alias for Space Mission AND also give me the 100% positive company name(s) that used it? When I get that, I'll be happy to make that particular change. (Tirade mode ON.) Grrr. I just got noticed something big, belatedly, and it pisses me off. I'm sure I'll get over it, but right now, it upsets me a lot. OK. I grabbed my copy of the printed DPCG #7 guide book, and tried to look up that cart name in my handy-dandy, nearly-full-page list of aliases, which I had intended to include right up front for all to see. It isn't there. The editor deleted the entire list. Damn, but that's annoying! Most of my hard work on aliases was destroyed, and replaced with a lame-assed partial list, only some of the time, on some individual cart entries. And I didn't even notice it, until tonight? Sigh. That's crappy... that's just crappy on their part. We deserved better than to have our "gospel" thrown out in places, and arbitrarily replaced with half-informed stuff from parties unknown. Now I have to wonder what else got changed, without my knowledge, that makes me look like an idiot, or a half-assed researcher? I know for sure that the editor added some "tech" spec bulls**t at the end of each listing, that was total disinformation, in the VIC-20's case. We writers collectively had no idea it was even going to be included, till the books were already printed. It bothered me then, and it still bothers me. And I see now that the editing staff apparently added web sites to some entries, too, that I didn't have in there originally, and that I probably will find to be dubiously relevant. F**k me, but this is going to take time to straighten out, and I'm not looking forward to it. All that hard work we all did, and I'm seeing now that it got watered down and changed by half-informed guys who don't much care about the console's true history. So much that I'm going to have to go over every freakin' word now, to see what got deleted or added to what I had originally submitted. Editorial rights are understood, but there are certain editorial responsibilities, too, which I'm beginning to think were given short shrift. Whatever. It's annoying, but not life-threatening. I'm sure I'll get over it. But until I review it all, word for word, I no longer trust it. I didn't say the words printed there, so I can't stand behind them. For now, consider my online DPCG #8 write-up the latest and greatest, superceeding both the printed guide in DPCG #7 and the DPCG #7 text- as-written, online here. Too much contamination, for my own tastes. And expect massive changes in the way things are listed, to match OUR needs and not the printed guide's, from now on. I plan to throw half their built-in limitations out, and basically start over, as far as list organization goes. It will meet our needs better, I'm sure of it. (Tirade mode OFF.) Back to the original subject... > So the unarchived carts would be: > the two other Bandai games (Mobile > Soldier Gundam and Super Dimension > Fortress Macross), Super Bug, > Video-Lexikon, and possibly some > of the rumoured games. Correct so far, but you're on a slippery slope... This is where I have to groan, and again insist upon a closer reading of the info we all have available to us, so as not to spread bad information, or step backwards in time. Opinions on whether or not we'll ever find a title is one thing. However, an opinion about where we may have heard about these titles is pointless and irrelevant, since (unlike most of the so-called research that happens elsewhere) we are NOT GUESSING about where or when we heard about these titles. The entire text of the original press release, properly attributed so you can go find the real thing and read it yourself, is included verbatim in the FAQ, and even the printed DPCG #7 text says it is. So I have to believe the FAQ and the guide are both being skimmed, not read, in this case. Come on, guys. I don't want to scold you people. I really don't. But if people just skim things, then offer uninformed opinions as if it were actual information, well, that's annoying. More than anything else, that makes me wonder why I am bothering to write this stuff up in the first place? If even the hardcore can't be bothered, why do it? The good part of all this, half-hidden, is that I keep having to say things that amount to "we aren't sloppy, piss-poor researchers, like so many of the other so-called console historians in this hobby". It can be annoying that people assume, incorrectly, that we're just as sloppy as the others... but we're not, and you guys need to know it. -- Ward Shrake -- 1097 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Sat Nov 30, 2002 9:21pm Subject: Re: Random observations dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > The Magnavox Oddyssey 2 console had analog controllers, attached more > or less permanently to the console itself. The first versions of the > Arcadia console group -- Palladium, MPT-03, etc. -- apparently also > had analog controllers. The mindset seems to have stuck with them? > (Since Philips was the parent company of Magnavox and Signetics, etc.) Ward, does DPG7 say that the Odyssey2 has analog controllers? I dont' have my DPG7 yet (fortunately my box of 10 copies is finally at the customs now ... so if anyone here in Europe needs one - I will have some left ;) Anyways - does DPG7 say that the Odyssey2 has analog controllers? Well I play my G7000/O2 for 20 years now, but it still has no analog controllers ... maybe they FEEL like analog controllers because of their long way from center position to any side, but they are still digital ... Best regards, Dieter 1098 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Dec 1, 2002 6:59am Subject: PDF Newletter Layout - Comments please atrionfo I have created a simple newsletter layout of the Paul Holmes interview that Stefan posted a few days ago. Stefan looked over the layout and said it suited him, so now I'm showing the group. The newsletter-like pdf file is located in the temp area of the discussion group here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/ The interview still does not contain the complete questions that Stefan asked (though some of the answers have been reordered for clarity), so if you did not read Stepan's questions then this interview might be a little hard to follow in places. The complete questions will be added if this newsletter-like layout seems to be helpful, and it makes the information easier to follow. Remember, this pdf is NOT a final version of the interview, nor is it a final version of any layout- it's just an idea (one that I like). Please look over the pdf version of the interview and give any comments that you may have (be they positive or negitive). Adam 1099 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Dec 1, 2002 8:15am Subject: Re: Random observations commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "dieterk_ccc" wrote: (snip) > Ward, does DPG7 say that the > Odyssey2 has analog controllers? My earlier comments were based on my memory of owning the O2 console, and not from anything the book said. So if I'm mistaken, that's my fault, and not theirs. (On that, anyway.) In general though, lately, I'm becoming all-too-aware of the guide's built-in limits. In my opinion, it is primarily meant to entertain, more than to inform. My main thrust is to (A) understand the questions and answers we have about certain things, and (B) to pass that information on, once we have sifted through all the chaff, and have some verified wheat to give. So I and the guide's other staff may not see eye-to-eye on some things, and I'm pondering that now. I'm sure that most "collectors" would be 95% happy with just a raw list of cart names, company names, and part numbers. That is as interesting to me as reading pages out of a dictionary. (Well, come to think of it, the dictionary wins, hands down. Oh well.) -- Ward Shrake -- 1100 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Dec 1, 2002 10:02am Subject: Collector's Guide and Information Guide: was; Re: Random observations atrionfo >> In my opinion, it [DPCG] is primarily meant to entertain, more than to inform. >> That is correct, and that is what most people seem to want. You've noticed that even the hardcore readers don't read everything that is contained in the Guide, just imagine what the browsers or just the how-much-is-this-worth-people read. However, there ARE people that appreciate the extra work that is put into the Guide. Some people just skim the "extra" and then go back to it when they need some information. >> My main thrust is to (A) understand the questions and answers we have about certain things, >> Don't forget to add that it is also important to answer your own questions. That is how it is for me in the Astrocade and Arcadia world. If I had no questions of my own, no personal wonder about either system, then I would not be reading any of the information about them. Nor would I be collecting the systems themselves- it's the history about them that creates wonder for me. That's why I ask questions on the group and am not just content to sit back and lurk. What fun is lurking about a game system that is twenty years old? >> (B) to pass that information on, once we have sifted through all the chaff, and have some verified wheat to give. >> The Guide doesn't pass bad information off on purpose; Joe is not a malicious editor, but for what ever reason, in my opinion Joe likes to add (or take away) a little something to make each section his "own." As Ward has discovered, this can sometimes deteriorate the overall feel of a section. Joe has done more than water down the Arcadia section: Ward is going to need to do some major reconstruction to get it back into a form that is useful to this group. Does that mean that the DP Guide 7 is useless for Arcadia readers? Not at all- it still remains the best resource for fans of that system (unless they are reading this discussion group); it's just not as up to date and accurate as Ward feels it should be (and if there are blatant errors, then he is right). Partially Ward is being hard on himself (for once a project is out of your hands, it IS out of your control), but he is correct that anything that he writes does reflect upon him. Ward can vouch that readers of other sections often spy the errors; and this does reflect upon the author. Ward did his very best to make sure that there was as little chaff as possible, and I don't blame him for being upset that some chaff that he discarded crept back into the Arcadia section due to another person's carelessness. >> So I and the guide's other staff may not see eye-to-eye on some things, and I'm pondering that now. >> Well, I'm not a member of the staff, Ward, but I understand what you are talking about. It's like this: you're pregnant for nine months. When the baby is delivered the doctor drops the baby on its head. The baby seems fine, but that doctor caused a little bit of brain damage. The baby smiles a lot, coos a lot and seems pretty happy, but the mother can just tell that there is something wrong. >> I'm sure that most "collectors" would be 95% happy with just a raw list of cart names, company names, and part numbers. That is as interesting to me as reading pages out of a dictionary. (Well, come to think of it, the dictionary wins, hands down. Oh well.) >> You're not the only person who finds a raw list boring. Do you really think that any collector would settle for a list like that? I remember as a kid I would make lists of games that I wanted to get, and then when I would get the game I would either check the game off the list or scribble it out. That's what a raw list is, and I don't know of any collector that wants to go back to those juvenile days. Adam 1101 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Dec 1, 2002 2:44pm Subject: Collector's Guide versus Archaeologist's Notebook commie_fan I'm still thinking things through, in regards to the guide, and likely will be, for quite some time. (Not necessarily "aloud" or here.) But the gist of it boils down to creative control, and who has the right of "final cut". Joe Santulli does, with the DP Collector's Guide, since it is his guide. I'm just a contributor. That does not rule out publication elsewhere, and that has to be considered, too. I don't know what to think, fully, but this is the first time I have given serious thought to NOT writing for the DP guide, any more. The main question I have to ask myself, now, is "can I live with someone else changing the words I wrote about something, without so much as even telling me what they're changing, as they do it?" Maybe is the short answer. That alone, I might be able to live well with. The second most important question, which complicates things greatly, is one of proper attribution: who gets credit for the final product? If more than one person works on a section, who gets credit, and how? I have had long, mostly-one-way private talks with Joe, about that subject. I felt, then and now, that if the guide has one major flaw, that's it. I think it's sloppily done, and it bothers me, a lot. Put bluntly, if a person wrote a college research paper, using Joe's guide's attribution rules, they'd end up in deep, deep trouble with their professors. People who did contribute, sometimes get zero credit, even if they did huge amounts of work. (Russ Perry Jr. got accidentally deleted from DPCG #6's credits entirely, when I took over the Arcadia section. And no one caught the serious error until the book had gone to print.) People who did very little, often end up with credits. There is no way to tell who said what, when, or why. By the standards of a college writing class, the guide fails miserably. If you take someone else's words, and put it into your document, and give that person no credits, then by the nearly universally accepted literary standards of even an advanced high school class, you are committing plagiarism. I'm not accusing Joe or any other DP'er of that, willingly or not. I'm just saying, by objective standards, the guide is not "serious" enough in that department. And it worries me. I'm not so much worried my name will be removed, from work I did do. I am thinking ahead, to when I no longer write for the guide. Will the people that come after me, still use my name on the guide, even though their "final cut" no longer reflects my decision making? If they are not as serious a researcher as I am, and they take shortcuts, and make mistakes, will that reflect poorly on me instead? Right now, the answer is "most probably, yes". And that bothers me. If I can't get past these serious problems, I won't be writing for the guide, any more. Simple as that. Do I say that in anger? No, I got over that already. This is simply being pragmatic. If the guide's audience could not care less about the kind of information I would like to write about, then I'm wasting my own time, and their time as well. If that's the case, then all parties concerned would be better off, if I publish things elsewhere. For the first time, I understand not only the logic, but the emotions behind why a movie director would want to release a "director's cut" of the film they made, after someone else changed it, from what they had originally intended. I can see why they'd want the public to see what they REALLY MADE, and not what someone else changed it into. So, for now, that will be my short-term solution: I will release a "director's cut" of the information I supplied to Digital Press. It will include two things: the full, unaltered, verbatim version of the text as I originally sent it in to the guide's editors, and a list of all of the things that those editors altered, before publishing the book. That way, the public can see what I intended, alongside what actually happened. (Much like we're trying to figure out what Philips intended, when they originally had put this console on the market.) -- Ward Shrake -- 1102 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Dec 1, 2002 8:50pm Subject: Re: Collector's Guide versus Archaeologist's Notebook commie_fan In fairness to myself, I wish to point out that Joe Santulli, the guy who edited the Digital Press Collector's Guide, is a member of this Yahoo! message board group. So I am not "talking trash" behind his back, as I'm making comments / brain-dumps, regarding the text that I submitted to the guide. He's welcome to point out the error of my ways, if I'm over-stepping my bounds or am just plain wrong about something or other. Till then, know that I'm just expressing my opinion, and that you guys are only seeing parts of the whole. I am just going through a "get if off your chest, Ward" phase right now. I also wish to point out that I've considered leaving this hobby for quite some time now, as a content provider. That's not any secret. If I do go, I don't want people thinking DP chased me out of the hobby? I understand myself, other people, and this often obsessive niche of a hobby much better than I used to, which helps. Still, I can just tell that a lot of things that used to motivate me quite a bit, no longer "turn my crank". I'm to the point where I have to work up energy to do most things... have been for awhile now, actually. I basically abandoned my work on the Commodore VIC-20, four years ago, and did this instead. Now, even this is tapering off, for me personally. I plan to just go with the flow, as it happens. I don't plan to force myself to keep going. I knew all this, even before I sent my DPCG #7 texts in, which is part of the reason I'm taking the "artistic differences" bit fairly hard, right now. (I could just "feel" that DPCG #7 very well might have been my last-ever set of submissions, with DPCG #8 being 99.99% certain to be my very last. I just couldn't see being around, and still doing research, two years or more from now, when I figure DPCG #8 will be due out.) In other words, please bear with me, as I cry in my beer over this. I'll adjust my attitude soon, change what I need to change in the way I do things, bring this hobby into better line with my personal life, and we'll see what happens, then. No promises. -- Ward Shrake -- 1103 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Mon Dec 2, 2002 9:09am Subject: Book ink versus speedy electrons commie_fan After this posting, I'm going to work harder on not "thinking out loud" about the DPCG collector's guide's editing changes, and whether or not I agree with the decisions that the editor made. (Hooray!?) I was even tempted to delete the past few messages on the subject, as if they were off-topic, but what's "spammed is spammed," and trying to undo it now would just muddy the waters even worse, I suspect? In the last few days, I have already made and scrapped a number of possible solutions. They all had one thing in common: I did not want to appear to be in "competition" with the guide information, or the guide's editors. All of my schemes to work around that, however, just seem to complicate things, both for myself and for any readers. I'm sure no one besides me really cares whether or not errors were introduced in the editing process, to the point of wanting a detailed list of what they were. (The "director's cut" plan, now aborted.) All the readers really want is the latest, most trustworthy information. So, from this point forward, I'm going to do myself (and readers) a big favor. I will just consider what was said in the six-month-old guide to be totally obsolete at this point. That was yesterday, this is today... life moves on, and information loses something over time. What this means in the short term is that I have now deleted both the text of the guide's seventh edition, from the files section, as well as all the work-in-progress "eighth edition" information. They are gone and I have no plans to replace them with more of the same. All that would do, is to complicate things when I put out new info. I prefer one file and one file only, that being the most recent info. What I do plan to do now is to privately create the latest-and- greatest info, get it the way I want it, and then upload that one file. At that point, I'll ask you all to kindly delete the old, "bad" info you may have and replace it with the latest-and-greatest stuff. No sense making this harder on myself, than I need to. Whether or not the guide's editors get irked over an author "competing" with them, seems totally irrelevant now. Sooner or later, that info would have become outdated, and would need to be replaced, no matter what. Not my fault that the internet has better turn-around time than ink does. -- Ward Shrake -- 1104 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Dec 3, 2002 5:53am Subject: Re: Book ink versus speedy electrons atrionfo >> I was even tempted to delete the past few messages on the subject, as if they were off-topic, but what's "spammed is spammed," and trying to undo it now would just muddy the waters even worse, I suspect? >> What you are talking about is not off topic. It is directly related to the presentation of Arcadia material. It is directly on topic. You are expressing to us why you are breaking from the format of the DP Guide. If you didn't let us know now, then someone would ask later and you would probably explain it anyway. Telling us now keeps us in the loop and we are able to tell you what's on our mind. Here's what's on my mind: Do whatever is easiest for you. You are the author of the Arcadia section (and others), and I know that both you and I (and only you and I) got special permission from Joe before we submitted our material to handle our writing as we wished after he published his seventh edition of the Guide. My agreement with Joe is that he can use whatever I wrote in future editions (but Mike and I must get credit), but I can use whatever I wrote in any way that I wish as well (including posting it on the web). In other words, I am not legally bound to the Guide. So, Ward, write the way that pleases you. Present the information in Word format (as you've said), or even hieroglyphics (if you want to really baffle us). Do what you please to please yourself, and do it with a clean conscience. It's your legal right. As far as the other Guide authors are concerned, they might not have the freedom that you and I expressly made sure we had before we allowed our work to be published. Joe is a nice guy and probably would be lenient on this matter, but it's nice to know that you can do what you want without needing to inform him. Adam 1105 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Dec 3, 2002 0:41pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving commie_fan Russ: The carts arrived this afternoon. They are in fine shape; no worries. (I'll do my best to keep them that way, naturally.) All: I am at a library now, where I scanned in the cart pics, just for kicks. (Had to be here anyway, to make this "they arrived" posting.) More news as it happens. I'll just post the ROM images in the files section, when I have archived the carts' contents, and made sure they are good. (Likely by burning them onto my personal multicart, but that's getting ahead of myself.) Thanks again for the cart loan, Russ! -- Ward Shrake -- 1107 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 4:41am Subject: On the Jumpbug disassembly atrionfo I took a look through the "lightly" commented verion of Jumpbug. James and I have two different definitions of the word "lightly." To me that word means that once in a while throughout the source there might be a few comments here and there. Such is not the case with the Jumpbug source. It's not as commented as Capture, but Jumpbug is damn well commented. Most of the data isn't commented (i.e. there are no comments around that say which is screen 1, screen 2, etc), but that is hardly an ommision. If possible, in the future, add a comment in ASCII to the final binary image of any modified ROM (if there's room). This way in two, or five or ten years we are not confusing the MESS version of Jumpbug with the release version. Things could get really messy if we don't do this. James, you're doing a fine job. Maybe now you can modify Golf, as Ward has suggested in the past, so that it works properly. Adam _________________________________________________________________ Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 1108 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 5:10am Subject: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! commie_fan See the FILES section, under "Temporary_Files," for the two latest ROM images; "Doraemon" and "Dr. Slump: Arare" for the Bandai Arcadia. These are both later games, with more sophistication than many others. I'm pretty sure both ROMs are fine, but because I'm paranoid, I'm not gonna commit to an "I'd bet my life they're OK" statement till I burn them back into chips and run them on the real thing. Probably later on today, they're be more uploads from me -- new archiving list, etc. -- and I'll say then if I vouch for these ROM images 100%. They run in MESS not too badly, and they don't crash the old stand- alone emu, although the graphics are all scrambled there. But there are enough neat graphics tricks I don't recall any other games using, that the emus are now showing their weaknesses, again. Heehee! -- Ward Shrake -- 1109 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 6:03am Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! atrionfo Dr. Slump has a nice title screen (check it out!). It looks low-res, but I suspect that it was created using character grahics (I mean, how else could it have been done?). The question becomes, how did the character graphics get reused on the same screen- do any other games do that? If so, then they could have had better title screens too- but they didn't. I played both games a bit using MESS. They work, or seem to work (just as Ward said). If Ward okays these ROM images, then I will burn them to two EPROMs so that I can play them on my Arcadia. Watch, they probably require paddles. Thanks Russ! Thanks Ward! Adam 1110 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 8:00am Subject: Re: PDF Newletter Layout - Comments please commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > Please look over the pdf > version of the interview > and give any comments that > you may have (be they > positive or negitive). > > Adam It kicks ass... how's that for a comment? :-) I really do like the way you've set it up. Feel free to do up the Capener interview the same way, if you have the time and the inclination, Adam. -- Ward Shrake -- 1111 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 8:06am Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! commie_fan Thanks for the nice comments, Adam. (Anyone else want to say a few words about the games? I'm sure you guys will be pleasantly surprised with the effort Bandai put into them... I certainly was! I won't say it made me think the Arcadia console rules the universe now, but hey, it certainly helps to balance out some of the other, "iffy" games.) Anyway, I uploaded the scans I did yesterday, of the carts' pictures. You guys might like to see those... although you can't read what is written on them, unless you read Japanese. (Which I don't. Russ does, at least a bit... how about a translation of those manuals, Russ?) If you don't know where to find the scanned photos, they're in the files section. I won't be more specific, forcing you guys to look around a bit, and maybe find some cool stuff you didn't know was here. Heehee. In the temporary files section, I uploaded the rarity and archiving lists. I'd just put them up on my web site, over on Digital Press' servers, but Joe (who runs them) keeps having technical difficulties. If that sort of thing keeps up, I may move my site onto my own ISP account's web space... I know I can access that, and it's pretty reliable, overall. Till then, the lists are here, temporarily. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Dr. Slump has a nice title screen (check it out!). It looks low- res, but I > suspect that it was created using character grahics (I mean, how else could > it have been done?). The question becomes, how did the character graphics > get reused on the same screen- do any other games do that? If so, then they > could have had better title screens too- but they didn't. > > I played both games a bit using MESS. They work, or seem to work (just as > Ward said). If Ward okays these ROM images, then I will burn them to two > EPROMs so that I can play them on my Arcadia. Watch, they probably require > paddles. > > Thanks Russ! Thanks Ward! > > Adam 1112 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 8:26am Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > If Ward okays these ROM images, > then I will burn them to two > EPROMs so that I can play them > on my Arcadia. Watch, they > probably require paddles. > > Thanks Russ! Thanks Ward! > > Adam [Digital Pimp mode ON and hard at work] I may burn up a batch of new multicart EPROMs with these two new games on them. I plan to burn at least one for myself, later today sometime. I'm erasing a dozen or so chips now, to prep for it. If that chip works fine -- I still have the originals to compare to, side-by-side, instead of relying on the imperfect emulators, etc. -- and I see no reason why it shouldn't, I'll probably burn more and offer it as a multicart upgrade, to those that want it. And if that bothers any of you, because you don't yet have one of my Emerson-family compatible multicarts, never fear. I still have nine of them left over from CGE 2002, that I could sell off at any time. I used to charge $100 each for them, but with nobody buying them any more, and me needing the money, I may consider a price reduction to $85 or so, plus shipping per multicart. I may open up the "one to a customer" rule to "two to a customer" ... a few people wanted that, when I was first making them, and I didn't allow it back then, since I could barely keep ahead of orders due to the huge time outlay they all take to make. But with orders stagnant, and me in desperate financial straits, two-per sounds fair to me. Anyone interested? (For that matter, does anyone even still read this message board, besides Adam, myself, and a few others?) Keep in mind that I do not have any plans to continue making these. These last nine carts could very well be the last ones ever made and sold, due to the ten or twelve hours it takes to make each cart by hand, and the less-than-minimum-wage financial return I get for that time. [Digital Pimp mode OFF] Russ: You will end up getting an upgrade EPROM for free, as a "thank you" from me. I'll just include it in the box, when I ship your carts back. Thanks again, dude! All: There are still five or so of you that don't have rear labels for your Emerson multicarts, thanks to my printer dying, back when. I did not forget you guys. I still have the list of who needs labels. -- Ward Shrake -- 1113 From: "Charles" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 11:37am Subject: RE: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! CharlesD916 Ward, Any chance you might be selling upgrade EPROMs for those of us with multicarts? don't want you to get burnt out, but I thought I would check. Take Care, Charles Dysert www.evg2000.com charles@evg2000.com -----Original Message-----From: Ward Shrake [mailto:ward.shrake@worldnet.att.net]Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 1:26 PMTo: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.comSubject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ!--- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote:(snip)> If Ward okays these ROM images,> then I will burn them to two > EPROMs so that I can play them> on my Arcadia. Watch, they> probably require paddles.> > Thanks Russ! Thanks Ward!> > Adam[Digital Pimp mode ON and hard at work]I may burn up a batch of new multicart EPROMs with these two new games on them. I plan to burn at least one for myself, later today sometime. I'm erasing a dozen or so chips now, to prep for it.If that chip works fine -- I still have the originals to compare to, side-by-side, instead of relying on the imperfect emulators, etc. -- and I see no reason why it shouldn't, I'll probably burn more and offer it as a multicart upgrade, to those that want it.And if that bothers any of you, because you don't yet have one of my Emerson-family compatible multicarts, never fear. I still have nine of them left over from CGE 2002, that I could sell off at any time.I used to charge $100 each for them, but with nobody buying them any more, and me needing the money, I may consider a price reduction to $85 or so, plus shipping per multicart.I may open up the "one to a customer" rule to "two to a customer" ... a few people wanted that, when I was first making them, and I didn't allow it back then, since I could barely keep ahead of orders due to the huge time outlay they all take to make. But with orders stagnant, and me in desperate financial straits, two-per sounds fair to me.Anyone interested? (For that matter, does anyone even still read this message board, besides Adam, myself, and a few others?) Keep in mind that I do not have any plans to continue making these. These last nine carts could very well be the last ones ever made and sold, due to the ten or twelve hours it takes to make each cart by hand, and the less-than-minimum-wage financial return I get for that time.[Digital Pimp mode OFF]Russ: You will end up getting an upgrade EPROM for free, as a "thank you" from me. I'll just include it in the box, when I ship your carts back. Thanks again, dude!All: There are still five or so of you that don't have rear labels for your Emerson multicarts, thanks to my printer dying, back when. I did not forget you guys. I still have the list of who needs labels. -- Ward Shrake --To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 1114 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 3:40pm Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Charles" wrote: > Ward, > > Any chance you might be selling upgrade EPROMs for those of us with > multicarts? don't want you to get burnt out, but I thought I would check. > > Take Care, > > Charles Dysert > www.evg2000.com > charles@e... Umm... yeah, that's possible. I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but if you re-read the message you REPLY'ed to, you would see: > ...I'll probably burn more and > offer it as a multicart upgrade, > to those that want it. Maybe the "probably" threw you? In any case, yes, I'll be offering an upgrade soon-ish. -- Ward Shrake -- 1115 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 3:44pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: (snip) > If possible, in the future, add > a comment in ASCII to the final > binary image of any modified ROM > (if there's room). This way in > two, or five or ten years we are > not confusing the MESS version of > Jumpbug with the release version. > Things could get really messy if > we don't do this. I agree we need some method, but a "CRC check" is fine by me. I'll upload my quick-n-dirty CRC-checking utility, if I didn't already. > James, you're doing a fine job. Again, agreed. Kudos! > Maybe now you can modify Golf, > as Ward has suggested in the > past, so that it works properly. Just a thought... I already worry about being too pushy, around here! But it would be a nice project for learning, I'd think? -- Ward Shrake -- 1116 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 3:52pm Subject: Re: [not OT]GI Systems; was:Re: Arcadia hardware development and licensing chain slapdash26 At 10:19 AM -0600 11/18/02, slapdash@... wrote: >Quoting mc71de : >> Russ Perry Jr wrote: >[Gimini] >>>> which iirc was the codename for the GI 1600 processor. >>> Possibly. I don't recall for sure. >> Look at: http://www.dsplib.com/chips/gi8900.html >> There it says so, and that is the INTV. But if you're generous, it >> consists of seven different chips :-) >See, the thing is, I think the book was dated before the Intellivision, >and the games sounded more on the level of older systems. I don't know >though. I guess I might try to dig that book up when I'm back home... >>>> Anyway, it definitely became the Intellivision. >>> The 1600. I'm not sure that's what the GIMINI became though. >> Hmmm... as far as my sources go, 'GIMINI' was the code name for the >> CP1600 processor architecture. But we know what we mean, >> respectively. >I'm mildly stumped on this one. It's possible that the book I saw >was giving a precursor to the Intellivision, but like I said above, >I didn't get that impression -- it seemed like older tech. The book >was in the reference section, so it could not be checked out. I'll >try to get over there to see, and maybe will photocopy the relevent >pages. Or maybe it'll be clear, one way or the other, if it's the >CP1600 or not. Hope the book is still there... Bad news -- the book is apparently long gone. They do have some older videogame books, but not that one. I did, however, find my notes, where I'd written down the games. I remember from the book that it sounded like the games "existed", but looking back, it's quite possible the source the book's author was going by was a datasheet/project notes system that you COULD build. Anyway, the games: Blackjack Draw Poker Acey Deucey War Combat Squares * Racing Squares * Shooting Squares * Volleyball Jungle I Jungle II Protection Hazard Road Race Barricade Submarine Dogfight You can see that some of these sound a bit like the GI chip series... The *'d ones are specifically the ones that made me think even then that the GIMINI was quite a primitive system (and the book DID portray it as a system, if my memory still serves me, and my notes seem to back up; I know there wasn't a picture of a system, but only a game list for the most part, and I assumed they were cartridges I guess) as "Squares" implies that the player sprites are just squares. THAT doesn't sound like Intellivision at all... It could be that the GIMINI as the name of this system and the GIMINI that is the code name of the CP1600 are merely coincidentally the same. It's also possibly that GI kept reusing that moniker. At this point, I can't prove a thing, but that's what I know... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1118 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 5:07pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" > wrote: > (snip) > > If possible, in the future, add > > a comment in ASCII to the final > > binary image of any modified ROM > > (if there's room). This way in > > two, or five or ten years we are > > not confusing the MESS version of > > Jumpbug with the release version. > > Things could get really messy if > > we don't do this. > > > I agree we need some method, but a "CRC check" is fine by me. I'll > upload my quick-n-dirty CRC-checking utility, if I didn't already. > > > > James, you're doing a fine job. > > > Again, agreed. Kudos! > > > > Maybe now you can modify Golf, > > as Ward has suggested in the > > past, so that it works properly. > > > Just a thought... I already worry about being too pushy, around here! > But it would be a nice project for learning, I'd think? If you could list exactly what problems need fixing that would make things easier; please send your compatibility reports. Don't worry about being pushy :-) There are probably about 5 to 10 more games that need doing, but some of them will likely require fixes to the emulator itself. I recently patched Spiders...some of the sprites still flicker however. I didn't look at that bug at all. Presumably they are not supposed to flicker? :-) But at least the colours and controls are now correct. Ward: Thanks for the ROM images! Are there any manuals for these games? I understand they would of course be in Japanese, but surely they are still worth having and could eventually be translated? 1119 From: "Charles Morgan" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 5:36pm Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! ventrra --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" -snip- > I used to charge $100 each for them, but with nobody buying them any > more, and me needing the money, I may consider a price reduction to > $85 or so, plus shipping per multicart. -snip- > -- Ward Shrake -- Now, I just have to hope that two conditions will exist: 1) That I have enough money in January to afford one. and 2) That Ward still has some left to sell by that point. The only thing remaining after that would be to actually get the system to play them on :( 1120 From: "oboissea" Date: Wed Dec 4, 2002 7:41pm Subject: Olivier was here oboissea Hi guys, Just a quick note to let you know that I'm still here and that I read all the posts (and it takes time! :-)) An interesting link: http://linewid.free.fr/ms1.html These are scans of the first edition of the "Micro-Systemes" french magazine. From the page 51, there is an interesting article describing the "Instructeur 50", a learning system based on the Signetics 2650... Olivier www.old-computers.com 1121 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 10:11am Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: (snip) > If you could list exactly what problems need fixing that would make > things easier; please send your compatibility reports. Don't worry > about being pushy :-) There are probably about 5 to 10 more games > that need doing, but some of them will likely require fixes to the > emulator itself. See message #331 for a bit more info on that. And I believe that PeT had some helpful written technical notes, within the MESS emulation code, if I'm not mistaken. The gist of it is, it won't run on the real thing, other than to put a first screen up. Then bankswitching problems happen, since the original cart used two physical chips, switched with two physical lines at the cart port. No such second line exists on any Emerson family console that I'm aware of, so the game is unplayable on any other console, except the one it was intended for originally. MESS will play it, but only because PeT wrote a patch specifically to fix that one game. This was, by the way, apparently one of the first games to be larger than 4k in size, hence the problems with how they used that second 2k chip, and the weird place things sit in memory on that one cart. After those "growing pains," they used another method, by sort of mis-using one of the lines at the port. I think that is also discussed in my FAQ; see the pinouts sections for more info. > Ward: Thanks for the ROM images! You're welcome. And thanks to Russ, for loaning me his pristine- condition original carts, 'cause it would not have happened without them. Along those lines, I loaded a "credits" file up just now, listing who loaned me what, or dumped what, over the years. Every dumped 2001 cart is accounted for. See the FILES section. > Are there any manuals for these > games? I understand they would of course be in Japanese, but surely > they are still worth having and could eventually be translated? While I agree with you, I am personally powerless to do anything about those manuals. My so-called "collection" is basically non- existant, and always has been. I often trade or sell things off, to get the next carts I want to archive. As to most manuals, I've never had them, never read them, etc. People generally send me bare carts, and nothing else. Maybe Russ will scan them, if/when he finds the time? Adam was trying to get everyone to chip in on scanning manuals in, but not much ever happened on that. I've personally contributed every manual I have access to, ages ago. What happens on that now is beyond my control. -- Ward Shrake -- 1122 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 10:14am Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! commie_fan Oh, by the way... both ROM images checked out fine, on the real thing. I vouch for their goodness, dumping-wise, now. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 1123 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 2:08pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Ward Shrake" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" > wrote: > (snip) > > If you could list exactly what problems need fixing that would make > > things easier; please send your compatibility reports. Don't worry > > about being pushy :-) There are probably about 5 to 10 more games > > that need doing, but some of them will likely require fixes to the > > emulator itself. > > > See message #331 for a bit more info on that. And I believe that PeT > had some helpful written technical notes, within the MESS emulation > code, if I'm not mistaken. OK, I'm downloading that right now, and will have a look at it. > The gist of it is, it won't run on the real thing, other than to put > a first screen up. Then bankswitching problems happen, since the > original cart used two physical chips, switched with two physical > lines at the cart port. No such second line exists on any Emerson > family console that I'm aware of, so the game is unplayable on any > other console, except the one it was intended for originally. MESS > will play it, but only because PeT wrote a patch specifically to fix > that one game. This was, by the way, apparently one of the first > games to be larger than 4k in size, hence the problems with how they > used that second 2k chip, and the weird place things sit in memory on > that one cart. After those "growing pains," they used another method, > by sort of mis-using one of the lines at the port. I think that is > also discussed in my FAQ; see the pinouts sections for more info. Hmm, so it works fine on the emulator but not the real thing...! So presumably you would burn the patched ROM onto the multicarts. I'm willing to patch the game but there are others which currently take precedence; the main one I'm working on at the moment is Ocean Battle. Regarding Dr. Slump: on MESS, my man seems to run out of energy after only about five seconds, after that I can't move. Presumably this amount of time should be longer on the real thing? Because it seems impossible to achieve anything within that amount of time...Could someone who has played it on a real console and on MESS please list the MESS compatibility issues? I'd like to make Dr. Slump one of the next ones to be fixed. Regarding Doraemon: on MESS, when I lose a life, much of the time I lose a couple at a time; ie. I die, reappear then die instantly again, then reappear. Also the graphics are somewhat glitchy. Anyone else can confirm these bugs, and/or add more? > > Are there any manuals for these > > games? I understand they would of course be in Japanese, but surely > > they are still worth having and could eventually be translated? > > While I agree with you, I am personally powerless to do anything > about those manuals. My so-called "collection" is basically non- > existant, and always has been. I often trade or sell things off, to > get the next carts I want to archive. As to most manuals, I've never > had them, never read them, etc. People generally send me bare carts, > and nothing else. Ah, I thought perhaps he had sent the manuals off too. Russ: would it be possible for you please to scan these sometime, if you have a convenient opportunity? Also, would you be willing to allow me to add your "summaries" about Doraemon and Dr. Slump (which you posted when you received the carts) to the compatibility list/gaming guide, as an interim measure? With full attribution of course. >Adam was trying > to get everyone to chip in on scanning manuals in, but not much ever > happened on that. I've personally contributed every manual I have > access to, ages ago. What happens on that now is beyond my control. I bid for a couple of games on eBay, to obtain the manuals for typing and uploading. However I always seem to get outbid :-) Oh well, maybe when I have more cash...! 1124 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 3:09pm Subject: Ward's web site is moving (again) commie_fan Hi guys. This is just a heads-up that I'll soon be moving my web site again. When I do, I'll adjust the links that are here, and also announce when the move is actually complete. I'm not sure when the current version that is up on the Digital Press web servers will go down. When it does, don't panic; it is planned in advance, etc. Technical issues contributed heavily to my decision, mainly because Digital Press really isn't set up for easy and reliable web site hosting. The idea itself sounded good at first, but things just got way too complicated for me to continue with it. I wrote Joe tonight, and he's aware of my plans. Neither party expressed hard feelings over this. I wish Digital Press all the best, now and in the future. With any luck, I'll be able to make regular or semi-regular web site updates again, once the move is completed. My current ISP is pretty reliable, since they're the phone company. I'm not worried about the many painful past experiences I had when I was trying to host my web sites on the few megs of unreliable storage that AOL once supplied me with. I have high hopes that the increased technical and creative freedom that I'm about to get, will positively impact my web sites. -- Ward Shrake -- 1125 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 3:22pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: (snip) > Hmm, so it works fine on the > emulator but not the real > thing...! So presumably you > would burn the patched ROM > onto the multicarts. Umm, no, but that's entirely my fault. I wasn't specific enough, in my previous message. The thing that Pet patched was the MESS emulator itself, and *NOT* the Golf program ROM. So there is no modded Golf program at all, and therefore, I can't include it on my multicarts. And until someone patches the game ROM itself, it is not playable on any console other than the MPT-03 it came on, in its original state, with two chips and two enable lines. (Which kinda stinks, obviously.) > I'm willing to patch the game > but there are others which > currently take precedence; > the main one I'm working on > at the moment is Ocean Battle. Dude, the way you're going, we're perfectly willing to let you do anything you want to! Believe me. Whatever motivates you, do that! And I for one will just sit back and appreciate it. ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- 1126 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 5:43pm Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! slapdash26 As to the thank yous, you're all welcome... At 9:06 PM +0000 12/3/02, Ward Shrake wrote: >Anyway, I uploaded the scans I did yesterday, of the carts' pictures. >You guys might like to see those... although you can't read what is >written on them, unless you read Japanese. (Which I don't. Russ does, >at least a bit... how about a translation of those manuals, Russ?) Oof, that might take FOREVER, but I can look into it. Does anybody know someone who kept their Japanese language skills up to date? I haven't done a great job of it, and my reading comprehension was still quite slow even at my peak... At 9:26 PM +0000 12/3/02, Ward Shrake wrote: >Russ: You will end up getting an upgrade EPROM for free, as a "thank >you" from me. I'll just include it in the box, when I ship your carts >back. That would be cool. Thanks much man. PS -- I just heard from someone who might be able to dump the other two Bandai games. I don't know if he's on this list, but I sure as heck am crossing my fingers! -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1127 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 5:50pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly slapdash26 At 3:08 AM +0000 12/5/02, amigansoftware wrote: >Russ: would it be possible for you please to scan these sometime, if >you have a convenient opportunity? I can certainly try, though I'm not promising them in any kind of timely fashion... >Also, would you be willing to allow me to add your "summaries" about >Doraemon and Dr. Slump (which you posted when you received the carts) >to the compatibility list/gaming guide, as an interim measure? With >full attribution of course. Is this for me? Or Ward? I don't remember what summaries you're talking about if you meant me... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1128 From: "axtelius2001" Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 10:19pm Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! axtelius2001 --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: > PS -- I just heard from someone who might be able to dump the other > two Bandai games. I don't know if he's on this list, but I sure as > heck am crossing my fingers! Ah, that would be me.... Im working on it, the carts are on the way from Japan to a friend of mine and should arrive any day now. Ill post here as soon as im done. /frax 1129 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 10:50pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly stefanpiasecki I could scan those manuals as well if you want me to. They are just black and white although Space Pirates was full coloured. Stefan 1130 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 10:55pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly stefanpiasecki carts) > >to the compatibility list/gaming guide, as an interim measure? With > >full attribution of course. > > Is this for me? Or Ward? I don't remember what summaries you're > talking about if you meant me... > -- Hm, is he probably referring to my first thoughts that I posted when I received my copies some weeks ago? Dunno. Stefab 1132 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 0:16am Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > carts) > > >to the compatibility list/gaming guide, as an interim measure? With > > >full attribution of course. > > > > Is this for me? Or Ward? I don't remember what summaries you're > > talking about if you meant me... > > -- > > Hm, is he probably referring to my first thoughts that I posted when > I received my copies some weeks ago? Dunno. > Stefab Ah, yes, I was. Message #731 to be precise. Sorry Russ. >I also digitized the game so that everybody can see how they >look and play. Those AVIs are big (18 and 25 MB), so email me and >I'll send you split RAR-archives if you want. Stefan, would it also be possible to get these AVIs from you? Hopefully you haven't deleted them :-( At the time you posted message #731 I had no need of them and was also very close to my monthly download limit. But now they would be very helpful so I can see how they are meant to play, and fix them for MESS as I have already done for three other games...Unfortunately, posting them here probably won't be much use, as I get problems downloading large files from Yahoo. Maybe via email or FTP would be better? 1133 From: "axtelius2001" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 0:41am Subject: Re: MESS Source driver axtelius2001 A few years ago Paul emailed me the source. I still have it on some old backup CD I made before I left my old job. Ill look around and see if I can find it, just have to find a Macintosh first :) /frax --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > >> > I didn't realize this, I had heard from somewhere that the MESS > driver was built from Paul Robson's source. Obviously that was just > misinformation. Maybe it would be advantageous to have his source, > has anyone asked him for it? > >> > > The source has been asked for, and it is gone. Paul isn't holding back on > any information. We have everything he had. He had a harddrive crash (or > something- maybe accidentally deleted the source?), so what there is, is all > there is. > > Adam 1134 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 6:51pm Subject: Re: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly grumpfix > > >>Hmm, so it works fine on the >>emulator but not the real >>thing...! So presumably you >>would burn the patched ROM >>onto the multicarts. >> >> > > >Umm, no, but that's entirely my fault. I wasn't specific enough, in >my previous message. The thing that Pet patched was the MESS emulator >itself, and *NOT* the Golf program ROM. So there is no modded Golf >program at all, and therefore, I can't include it on my multicarts. >And until someone patches the game ROM itself, it is not playable on >any console other than the MPT-03 it came on, in its original state, >with two chips and two enable lines. (Which kinda stinks, obviously.) > I modified MESS to mirror the "extended" data of the 6kbyte/8kbyte rom images at 0x4000 (the golf address) to load golf correctly. Golf works on the real palladium VCG of course (was 1 of the 1st things I did with the real console) Emerson Arcadia: the service manual is not clear in the circuit diagram a14 is connected to the cartridge port in the boards picture it isn't (and accordingly to Ward) But I wouldn't swear this is the same in every board revision and in all arcadia cartridge compatible variants. Peter 1135 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Dec 5, 2002 11:22pm Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! grumpfix Ward Shrake wrote: >See the FILES section, under "Temporary_Files," for the two latest >ROM images; "Doraemon" and "Dr. Slump: Arare" for the Bandai Arcadia. >These are both later games, with more sophistication than many others. > >I'm pretty sure both ROMs are fine, but because I'm paranoid, I'm not >gonna commit to an "I'd bet my life they're OK" statement till I burn >them back into chips and run them on the real thing. Probably later >on today, they're be more uploads from me -- new archiving list, etc. >-- and I'll say then if I vouch for these ROM images 100%. > Worked okay in a quick test on a real palladium vcg (pal, 2112 ram, non auto-centering stick). Thanks for sharing the images. Peter 1136 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 8:15am Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Russ Perry Jr wrote: (snip) > Oof, that might take FOREVER, but > I can look into it. Does anybody > know someone who kept their > Japanese language skills up to > date? I haven't done a great > job of it, and my reading > comprehension was still quite > slow even at my peak... One of the local SC3 guys could do it, but not without the actual manual. Any chance you could scan them in, and let me see if he can translate them for the group? (Preferably in something that does not badly distort the text, such as a bitmap scan or maybe a TIFF?) -- Ward Shrake --- 1137 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 8:37am Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > I could scan those manuals as > well if you want me to. They > are just black and white > although Space Pirates was > full coloured. > Stefan Sounds great! Thanks, Stefan! -- Ward Shrake -- 1138 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 8:53am Subject: Interesting info, up on the DP message boards commie_fan Joe Santulli just pointed me to this user's posting, on the DP message boards. (I invited him or her over here, after reading it.) http://www.digitpress.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=38037#38037 In short, there is now a confirmed version of "Space Attack" that was called "Space War". Remember, that game was one of the two with the "Choi" name in it, and the message saying it was version two of Galaxian. And yes, I did ask about getting it archived or looked at, to see if it and the version we have, differs in any way. I'd love to find out that it is the mysterious first version of the code? If nothing else, the name is cool. Wasn't there an Interton game with that same name? Or something close? (My notes aren't handy.) -- Ward Shrake -- 1139 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 9:26am Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., Peter Trauner wrote: (snip) > Worked okay in a quick test > on a real palladium vcg (pal, > 2112 ram, non > auto-centering stick). Heehee. I never thought we'd get to this... describing what consoles we're using, not by company names, but by the chips inside. :-) I certainly understand the reasoning behind including that info, so don't think I disapprove. In fact, I'm thinking of adding similar stuff to my used-to-be DPCG #7 info, since I'm radically changing the formatting, and now have the ability to add whatever I want to add. > Thanks for sharing the images. Glad to be able to do it. -- Ward Shrake -- 1140 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 9:27am Subject: Re: MESS Source driver commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "axtelius2001" wrote: > A few years ago Paul emailed me the source. I still have it on some > old backup CD I made before I left my old job. > > Ill look around and see if I can find it, just have to find a > Macintosh first :) > > /frax When it rains, it pours! Coolness, all around. I'm looking forward to those new ROM images, if/when that works out. To find out that a copy of Paul's source may exist, after all... that's WAY too cool! -- Ward Shrake -- 1141 From: "hanimex_fan" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 9:31am Subject: Re: Interesting info, up on the DP message boards - Space War hanimex_fan > (I invited him or her over here, after reading it.) Well - here i am :) Hello to all. My name is Klaus, i collect for most 80's video game consoles, but have a deep interest in the Arcadia and clones. Of course i will dump the cart (at the moment i simply dont know how to do it, so a short FAQ on dumping carts would be great.) For the cart: I asked the original seller, she said it was give to her by her dad who received it from a neigbour, who found it it his celler. Well - there are 2 other carts with missing back labels, i will check them too. (dont know the name, have my collection at my parents house). -- Klaus Seiner 1142 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 11:27am Subject: Re: Interesting info, up on the DP message boards - Space War commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "hanimex_fan" wrote: > > (I invited him or her over here, after reading it.) > > Well - here i am :) Hello to all. My name is Klaus, i collect for > most 80's video game consoles, but have a deep interest in the > Arcadia and clones. Welcome! We're glad you came over here. Hopefully the 1,000+ messages here does not scare you off? Heehee. :-) > Of course i will dump the cart (at the moment i simply dont know how > to do it, so a short FAQ on dumping carts would be great.) There are guys here on the board that could dump it for you, if you don't mind mailing it out. (Wouldn't need the case, just the PC board, since you have apparently already removed it.) I can dump it, or PeT most likely can -- I presume he's physically closer to you, too? Dumping it yourself depends on how comfortable and knowledgable you are with technical things. And what specialized hardware you have, since an adapter cable and an EPROM burning machine are generally necessary. If you do dump it yourself, and it does turn out to be different than the other version, I'd add it to my "credits" list, in the files section somewhere. For no really good reason, I kept track of who loaned me what carts, and who dumped the ones that I didn't dump. (If others want to chime in with other thoughts, feel free?) > For the cart: I asked the original seller, she said it was give to > her by her dad who received it from a neigbour, who found it it his > celler. Well - there are 2 other carts with missing back labels, i > will check them too. (dont know the name, have my collection at my > parents house). > > -- Klaus Seiner It wasn't so much the missing back label that caught my attention; that could have been damage done by a number of things, although it seems a bit unlikely. But the name that is different, that was a big "hmmm". And the 292 board style; that was one of the first ones made, making it a very early cart. The trace cut, and the use of an EPROM instead of a masked ROM could mean something or nothing. (If it was a masked ROM, I would be doing cartwheels right now, thinking it was the first version, almost for sure. It still could be either, with what I've seen so far.) It is definitely an interesting cart. (If you guys didn't see the link on the DP web site, you missed out on some very interesting images.) Klaus, is it OK if I take the images you uploaded to DP's boards, and move a copy of them onto this board? (We almost never use the "photo" section here, since Yahoo! badly compresses most images; the "files" section has folders for pictures, which can be downloaded by any of us.) Well, well. Hmm. Things are rolling right along, on this message board about a completely dead set of 20-year old consoles. Imagine that?! ;-) -- Ward Shrake -- 1143 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 11:41am Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "amigansoftware" wrote: (snip) > If you could list exactly what problems need fixing that would make > things easier; please send your compatibility reports. Don't worry > about being pushy :-) There are probably about 5 to 10 more games > that need doing, but some of them will likely require fixes to the > emulator itself. James, I just started a database, to that effect. Hopefully, that will save us from having to search through the archived messages, all the time, to see what (if anything) was done or needs to be done. -- Ward Shrake -- 1144 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 2:52pm Subject: Re: MESS Source driver amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "axtelius2001" wrote: > A few years ago Paul emailed me the source. I still have it on some > old backup CD I made before I left my old job. > > Ill look around and see if I can find it, just have to find a > Macintosh first :) It should be possible to read it on an IBM-PC or Amiga, with an appropriate HFS filesystem installed... 1145 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 3:27pm Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! slapdash26 At 11:19 AM +0000 12/5/02, axtelius2001 wrote: > Russ Perry Jr wrote: >> PS -- I just heard from someone who might be able to dump the other >> two Bandai games. I don't know if he's on this list, but I sure as >> heck am crossing my fingers! >Ah, that would be me.... Im working on it, the carts are on the way >from Japan to a friend of mine and should arrive any day now. Hey, you are here! Cool. I'm really looking forward to getting those other Bandai games dumped! At 9:15 PM +0000 12/5/02, Ward Shrake wrote: > Russ Perry Jr wrote: >> Does anybody know someone who kept their >> Japanese language skills up to date? >One of the local SC3 guys could do it, but not without the actual >manual. Any chance you could scan them in, and let me see if he can >translate them for the group? (Preferably in something that does not >badly distort the text, such as a bitmap scan or maybe a TIFF?) I've got the docs out and will hopefully have time to scan them this weekend at the latest. No promises, but I'll try. I should be able to do TIFFs. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1146 From: "hanimex_fan" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 8:29pm Subject: Re: Dumping Space War hanimex_fan Well, i decided not to try a dump on my own. So, i there anyone in Europe who can&wants to dump the Space War cart? (If not, i'll ship it to Ward, i'm sure he wants to do it :) -- Klaus Seiner 1147 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Dec 6, 2002 9:15pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly stefanpiasecki > Stefan, would it also be possible to get these AVIs from you? > Hopefully you haven't deleted them :-( At the time you posted message > #731 I had no need of them and was also very close to my monthly > download limit. But now they would be very helpful so I can see how > they are meant to play, and fix them for MESS as I have already done > for three other games...Unfortunately, posting them here probably > won't be much use, as I get problems downloading large files from > Yahoo. Maybe via email or FTP would be better? Hi, I can split them for you or if you have a FTP I can upload it. However, I did not delete them of course. Stefan 1148 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 0:23am Subject: Re: Re: Dumping Space War axtelius2001 Hi Klaus! I live in Sweden and can dump it for you. Email me and we'll work out the details. /frax citerar hanimex_fan : > Well, i decided not to try a dump on my own. So, i there anyone > in Europe who can&wants to dump the Space War cart? > > (If not, i'll ship it to Ward, i'm sure he wants to do it :) > > > -- Klaus Seiner > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- -> > Get 128 Bit SSL Encryption! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/CBxunD/vN2EAA/xGHJAA/hWFolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1149 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 0:36am Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@y..., "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > > Stefan, would it also be possible to get these AVIs from you? > > Hopefully you haven't deleted them :-( At the time you posted > message > > #731 I had no need of them and was also very close to my monthly > > download limit. But now they would be very helpful so I can see how > > they are meant to play, and fix them for MESS as I have already > done > > for three other games...Unfortunately, posting them here probably > > won't be much use, as I get problems downloading large files from > > Yahoo. Maybe via email or FTP would be better? > > Hi, I can split them for you or if you have a FTP I can upload it. > However, I did not delete them of course. > Stefan Phew, you still have them :-) As I don't have an FTP server currently, would you please be able to email them to me? Multipart RARs or similar is fine. Many thanks, I will endeavour to fix them for MESS when I know exactly what the "end result" is supposed to be like :-) 1150 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 0:57am Subject: Disassembly of >4K ROMs amigansoftware Does anyone know how to properly disassemble Arcadia ROMs larger than 4K? The problem is that the code expects that the $1000-$1FFF ROM area will be loaded into $2000-$2FFF. The disassembler is getting very confused because it doesn't know this and I can't find a way to tell it so. By the way some of the ROMs have been overdumped; eg. Jump Bug, Spiders and Red Clash are actually only 4K. So they disassemble without problems. I'll post trimmed versions sometime. 1151 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 1:48am Subject: Re: Disassembly of >4K ROMs axtelius2001 I split the rom and dummy pad it with nops. Something like $0000->$0fff <- first half of the 8k rom $1000->$1fff <- filled with nops. $2000->$3fff <- second half of the 8k rom Produces a rather large disassembly with a bunch of useless nops but I delete thoose in an editor. /frax citerar amigansoftware : > Does anyone know how to properly disassemble Arcadia ROMs larger than > 4K? The problem is that the code expects that the $1000-$1FFF ROM > area will be loaded into $2000-$2FFF. The disassembler is getting > very confused because it doesn't know this and I can't find a way to > tell it so. > > By the way some of the ROMs have been overdumped; eg. Jump Bug, > Spiders and Red Clash are actually only 4K. So they disassemble > without problems. I'll post trimmed versions sometime. > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- -> > Get 128 Bit SSL Encryption! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/CBxunD/vN2EAA/xGHJAA/hWFolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1152 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 4:47am Subject: Re: Re: Dumping Space War grumpfix hanimex_fan wrote: >Well, i decided not to try a dump on my own. So, i there anyone >in Europe who can&wants to dump the Space War cart? > Austria, Upper Austria, district Wels. Somebody closer? Peter 1153 From: "dieterk_ccc" Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 8:16am Subject: Austria dieterk_ccc Willkommen Klaus, die Welt ist klein ;-) ... Jetzt sind wir schon 3 Tsterreich in dem Board :-) Welcome Klaus, the world is small ;-) ... Now we are already 3 Austrians on this board :-) Best regards, Dieter ccc--- 1154 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 4:54pm Subject: Re: Disassembly of >4K ROMs amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > I split the rom and dummy pad it with nops. > Something like > $0000->$0fff <- first half of the 8k rom > $1000->$1fff <- filled with nops. > $2000->$3fff <- second half of the 8k rom > > Produces a rather large disassembly with a bunch of useless nops but I > delete thoose in an editor. > > /frax Ah, I see. But after I delete the NOPs would it reassemble without problems? 1155 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 6:02pm Subject: Drum roll, please... commie_fan I did something I know you have all been waiting for. Can you guess what it is? Of course you can... its (arguably) the most useful thing yet, for this console! What is it, you ask, trembling with anticipation? An empty database, I say, where you can list the three (or more) games that you think stink the worst, on this console group! Yes, that's right, now there is a "LEAST favorite game" database to go with the "Favorite game database" which everyone but Stefan and I chose to ignore. This one, I'm sure, will inspire your creativity! And I also did some other stuff. Check out the database section. -- Ward Shrake -- 1156 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 6:33pm Subject: Re: Re: Disassembly of >4K ROMs axtelius2001 Yes, just throw in an org 2000h instead of the dummy nops and everything will work just great. You do have to cut out the $1000->$1fff area from the assembled image, maybe someone should program a tool to do this? /frax ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, December 07, 2002 6:54 AM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Disassembly of >4K ROMs > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik Axtelius" > wrote: > > I split the rom and dummy pad it with nops. > > Something like > > $0000->$0fff <- first half of the 8k rom > > $1000->$1fff <- filled with nops. > > $2000->$3fff <- second half of the 8k rom > > > > Produces a rather large disassembly with a bunch of useless nops > but I > > delete thoose in an editor. > > > > /frax > > Ah, I see. But after I delete the NOPs would it reassemble without > problems? > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1157 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 7:53pm Subject: Re: On the Jumpbug disassembly slapdash26 At 11:50 AM +0000 12/5/02, Stefan Piasecki wrote: > I could scan those manuals [Dr Slump, Doraemon] as well if you want > me to. If you can find the time, please do, otherwise, I hope to get to it this weekend if possible (I was actually going to do it tonight, but have scanner troubles for some reason). -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1158 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Dec 7, 2002 8:03pm Subject: Re: Interesting info, up on the DP message boards - Space War slapdash26 At 10:31 PM +0000 12/5/02, hanimex_fan wrote: >Well - here i am :) Hello to all. My name is Klaus, i collect for >most 80's video game consoles, but have a deep interest in the >Arcadia and clones. Hello Klaus, welcome to the list! >For the cart: I asked the original seller, she said it was give to >her by her dad who received it from a neigbour, who found it it his >celler. Well - there are 2 other carts with missing back labels, i >will check them too. Anyone else hoping for Centipede & Galaxians? :-) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1159 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Sun Dec 8, 2002 1:07am Subject: Re: Drum roll, please... amigansoftware > An empty database, I say, where you can list the three (or more) > games that you think stink the worst, on this console group! Yes, > that's right, now there is a "LEAST favorite game" database to go > with the "Favorite game database" which everyone but Stefan and I > chose to ignore. This one, I'm sure, will inspire your creativity! Alien Invaders is actually #5 on my favourites list :-) If only there was more than one level...maybe if I feel inclined I might make a version of it with levels. I concluded the "favourite game" poll, as the database seemed a better way to do it. For the record, there were five votes: two for Jump Bug, and one each for Robot Killer/Escape, Super Bug and Pleiades. 1160 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 8, 2002 4:18am Subject: Re: Drum roll, please... commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware " wrote: (snip) > Alien Invaders is actually #5 > on my favourites list :-) If > only there was more than one > level...maybe if I feel > inclined I might make a version > of it with levels...But I agree > about Breakout. Well, I may change my votes over time, too. The whole thing just qualifies as random silliness, and is not necessarily much more than that. I'm using it to vent, and be silly, and I hope others do the same. This qualifies in the "have fun" part of these message boards. Partly, I did that database because I'm quietly working on the massive revision to what used to be the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" info. (I'm now calling it "Ward's Big List" for no good reason.) I'm trying to describe the history of the console, and why it failed in at least one major market -- the United States -- but up to now I have always avoided just blurting out the statement that the games basically sucked. Finding diplomatic ways to say that, without actually appearing to say that, too openly, gets to be very tiring. I finally had to blurt some things out, before going back to diplomacy. Although, I must say I admire that sort of thing, when others do it, and do it well. Some magazine panned one of my favorite arcade games -- Primal Rage -- by saying that before it got converted to home consoles, it "heated up the arcade". I almost choked when I read that, because I knew both levels of what it meant; on the surface it sounded like a compliment, but it really meant that the arcade game just sat there, unplayed, and wasted the video arcade's electricity. And I'm now facing the idea that for the most part, that's what it came down to; a serious weakness in Philip's plans. They allowed too many rehashes of too many games from years back, some of which were already rehashes of other games. And then all those multiples of the same thing. And really, not a truly original idea in the bunch. They copied board games, console games, and arcade games. Copy, copy, copy, and sometimes, not very well, either. Philips concentrated 85% or so of their effort on the hardware, almost totally ignoring software. That seems like marketing the world's best razor handle, but the only blades that will fit into it are the crappiest things you can find anywhere. Nobody is going to buy that product. If they do, they'll likely return it quickly. My stance up till now was sort of "Philips had a good plan, which went awry due to outside factors". Now I'm heading towards "Philips had half (or less) of a good plan, part of which went awry due to outside factors, but seriously underestimated the need for quality software, to go along with their hardware." I think the thing that supplied the final push in that direction was the interview Stefan did with Paul Holmes. When he confirmed that the overall attitude of Philips was anti-software, and pro-hardware... well, I could no longer support that it wasn't all Philips' fault. A great razor handle, with lousy blades, is a lousy razor in the eyes of a consumer. If they had innovated in the software area as much as in the hardware arena, this console would not be anywhere as obscure. Oh, wait... let's not forget them waiting two years too long, at least in the United States. Sigh. It ain't easy, finding something nice to say about their obviously failed plans! Hence, in a way, the latest database. If you can't say anything nice, I figured what the heck; at least be humorous about saying something negative? :-) Please don't lynch me for saying any of this. I still enjoy the game console's history, and find aspects of all this fascinating. And the "discovery" of Doraemon was a great boost in my sagging efforts to think the software library wasn't horrible, through and through. And I hope you will all enjoy the updated "Ward's Big List" when it is done. I'm just deciding to be less reverent, and more objective, now. -- Ward Shrake -- 1161 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 8, 2002 4:47am Subject: Re: Drum roll, please... commie_fan I forgot to mention... there is also SOME hidden "method to my madness," in putting up a list of games we individually dislike. If we can all agree on hating certain games, then obviously, those become the highest priority candidates for homebrew modification efforts, somewhere down the road. So, while it may seem like a bad or even sacreligeous thing to list the games we dislike, if it leads them to be "fixed" later, then it was a very good thing, indeed. Already, someone (who didn't list their name) said "see above" to my bad review of Breakaway. Which makes that a candidate for a rewrite, already. I'm sure others would agree it could have been much better? Even the magazines that reviewed the game, back when, said that "it really should not have broken away from (them) at all". And things like this might not be as bad as it sounds, at first: "Circus" already has a very quick controller response to left and right movements of a much more complicated set of moving objects. Why then couldn't its code be used as a model for how to improve the paddle movement in Breakaway? (I may add that to the new "programming projects" database.) And "Auto Race" got mentioned... which is one of the main games I had in mind, when I was saying that some games require the analog controllers that I wasn't aware were on all the early consoles, before the Emerson family (?) switched them over to a digital style. Also, if some of these bad reviews are as humorous as I hope they are, I'd like to consider including them in the "Ward's Big List" text, as fan reviews. (With permission and credit, of course.) Or we could even put our combined efforts into sets of reviews, that will be posted to some place like "Digital Press" so that people can see, in a humorous way, just how bad some of these games are. Which, believe it or not, might attract others to the console? (Remember, most of us are here out of morbid curiousity, as much as game play.) So, don't be shy! Go ahead and tell us just how awful certain games really are, on this console. And be as sarcastic as you'd like! -- Ward Shrake -- 1162 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 8, 2002 5:08am Subject: Ward's Big List commie_fan I have a few questions for the group, about a project I'm working on. The info that was included as the "Arcadia 2001" section in the printed "Digital Press Collector's Guide" book, versions six and seven, is now being totally rewritten by me. I am using a format totally unlike the guide's, and plan to stick to that, from now on. I am doing this because the guide's format restricts me, far too much. Also, the editorial guidelines were restrictive, beyond my comfort. I had already created the "Cartzilla!" text for the Commodore VIC-20, with game reviews and all sorts of nifty features, when I was asked by the guide's editors if I'd let them use some of that VIC-20 info as the basis of their sixth guide's new VIC-20 section. I said yes, and the guide suddenly HAD such a section, "overnight". That was OK with all parties, obviously, but working on three sections of the DP guide prevented me from going in the same general "Cartzila!" direction with the Arcadia library. I was sort of headed off into that direction, once, and am just now going to go back to that. Point being, I realize that I can now do anything I want to do with my non-guide version of the Arcadia information. Is there anything you'd all like to see me add? Or do differently? I'm not at all interested in prices or rarity codes; sorry. Maybe much later, but right now, we're not even sure what's out there. Game play comments, for instance, were more-or-less forbidden by the guide's editor, but I'm all for their inclusion in my own personal version of the info. It seems monumentally wrong to write about games, but NOT discuss their gameplay... at least to me, it does. Any other suggestions? (Maybe I'll post some of "Cartzilla!" to give you food for thought?) -- Ward Shrake -- 1163 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 8, 2002 5:23am Subject: Re: Ward's Big List commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Ward Shrake " wrote: (snip) > (Maybe I'll post some of > "Cartzilla!" to give you > food for thought?) I just posted all of it. It is in the FILES section, under the temporary files heading. Yes, it is "off-topic" in one sense, but it won't be here forever, and it may serve a useful purpose, so.... -- Ward Shrake -- 1164 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Dec 8, 2002 7:19am Subject: Re: Ward's Big List atrionfo >> I just posted all of it [Cartzilla]. It is in the FILES section, under the temporary files heading. Yes, it is "off-topic" in one sense, but it won't be here forever, and it may serve a useful purpose, so.... >> I just read straight down from the top of the list to Alien, admittedly, not far, but I do have a sense of what the whole Vic-20 list is about (plus, I'm sure that I read this list years ago- before I knew who Ward was- in the days when I wanted to know everything I could about all the classic systems (nowadays I concentrate my efforts on just a few)). Ward wonders what parts of the list should be included for the Arcadia. There is no part of the list that should be excluded for the better games, but it's hard to imagine a list like Cartzilla being useful for the Arcadia (yes, it would be a fun read- but would it be used?). I suggest a list of the better games (all five or six of them, apparently) with a few short notes about them. In the forward make a comment like, "If the game has no review notes, then it's not worth reviewing," or something like to that affect. If someone likes the game, and wants it reviewed, then let them review it. A list like Cartzilla will consume huge amount of effort- and I have to wonder how many different ways a person can write that a game is not worth playing. Ward, take a step back and make sure that this potential effort you want to put into an Arcadia Cartzilla couldn't be used in better ways. I like the idea of the history of the console, the Arcadia family has been around the world in so many guises that it's the proper time to unmask where it has been and maybe even how it got there. It may either be too early for a list like Cartzilla, or it may not even be needed at all. If Cartzilla must happen, scale it back and let's have a Cart-Poodle for now- it can always be grown into a monster later. Adam 1165 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Dec 9, 2002 10:08am Subject: Re: Two new ROM images; thanks, Russ! slapdash26 At 10:27 PM -0600 12/5/02, Russ Perry Jr wrote: >I've got the docs out and will hopefully have time to scan them this >weekend at the latest. No promises, but I'll try. I should be able >to do TIFFs. Okay, I did just that, but they are HUGE... Are there any limits on the filesizes? Each image (and there are 16 of them) are 5.6 Meg each and only compress down to 4.4 Meg or so. We're talking 200 DPI TIFFs. So... Should I save them as JPGs after all, or shrink down the DPI that I'm scanning at? What do you folk find more useable? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1166 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Dec 9, 2002 10:37am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview slapdash26 At 9:56 AM +0000 11/27/02, Paul Holmes (via Stefan Piasecki) wrote: > If memory serves me, we released at least three (audio) cassettes > with about ten games each, Does he have these still? I'd like scans, maybe copies... Or see at least if there is anything unique on them that we might consider trying to put on cart instead. > plus a 45 RPM record. ?!? Ditto this one, but I'm even more intrigued, since there isn't a lot of software released in this format. > Then the IBM PC came over the horizon, and our interest in the > 2650 waned. We released some further hardware updates, published > the book (including the monitor listing, after an intriguing fight > with Philips - but that's another story, if you're interested?!), Boy, I am! Have you asked about this? > and I personally kept a trickle of games coming out. On tape? Type-in? What kind of stuff? > However... a few years ago, we moved house. At that time, I trashed > the hardware. I *thought* I kept the software listings and tapes... > but, having spent quite a while searching over the last weekend, I > am beginning to fear the worst. Ack! No! I suppose that answers my questions above, but not in a good way... > I only found one cassette; regrettably, the first - with the most > primitive games. Well, I'm still interested, and suspect the rest of us are too. Will he allow us copies? >> Do you have any of the following documents or informations that >> you could copy for us? >> 3) English version of the book "TV-Spielcomputer" > 3) Yes, my own copy. The original text Has he mentioned allowing copies of this, somehow? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1168 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Mon Dec 9, 2002 11:50pm Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles axtelius2001 What do you fix to make them run in MESS? One more question, which games wont run on a real Arcadia console and does anyone know why? Patching them to run on the real thing sounds like a fun project :) /frax citerar arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com: > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles > group. > > File : /Patched_games/redclas!.zip > Uploaded by : amigansoftware > Description : Fixed version of Red Clash for use with MESS, and original, > both trimmed to 4K, plus commented disassembly. > > You can access this file at the URL > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Patched_games/re dclas%21.zip > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > Regards, > > amigansoftware > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- -> > Get 128 Bit SSL Encryption! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/CBxunD/vN2EAA/xGHJAA/hWFolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1169 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Mon Dec 9, 2002 11:50pm Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles axtelius2001 What do you fix to make them run in MESS? One more question, which games wont run on a real Arcadia console and does anyone know why? Patching them to run on the real thing sounds like a fun project :) /frax citerar arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com: > > Hello, > > This email message is a notification to let you know that > a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles > group. > > File : /Patched_games/redclas!.zip > Uploaded by : amigansoftware > Description : Fixed version of Red Clash for use with MESS, and original, > both trimmed to 4K, plus commented disassembly. > > You can access this file at the URL > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Patched_games/re dclas%21.zip > > > To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files > > Regards, > > amigansoftware > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- -> > Get 128 Bit SSL Encryption! > http://us.click.yahoo.com/CBxunD/vN2EAA/xGHJAA/hWFolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1170 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Tue Dec 10, 2002 0:05am Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > What do you fix to make them run in MESS? It depends on the game. Often it is a hardware register, such as CRTCVPR for example, which is improperly emulated. If you're interested the source is available in the files area for your perusal. The patched sections are indicated with a ;NEW: comment. > One more question, which games wont run on a real Arcadia console and > does anyone know why? Patching them to run on the real thing sounds > like a fun project :) Golf primarily. But Circus apparently has controller problems on non- analog controllers. Does anyone know any other games requiring a proper analog controller? Here's my current tentative list of games needing patching for MESS: Auto Race (?) Circus Doraemon Dr. Slump Grand Slam Tennis Hobo Space Vultures My main priority is to get all of these to run properly under MESS. Are there any others that don't work that I am forgetting about? Once that is done, I be considering other patches, including game enhancements, etc. Also you'll be pleased to see my new utility "NOPper" in the files area, for padding the middle of >4K ROMs as you described. So now all ROMs should be able to be disassembled. 1171 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Tue Dec 10, 2002 3:18am Subject: Modifying ROM image source code commie_fan Guys, keep in mind that in the database section, there is a database called "programming projects". A lot of "what needs to be done" notes are already there, all nice and neat. -- Ward Shrake -- 1172 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Tue Dec 10, 2002 4:10am Subject: Multicart EPROM upgrade delayed commie_fan Just letting everyone here know that I have decided to wait a while, on the upgrade on the multicart EPROM chips. Probably till next January or so; I'm playing this by ear, but don't see it happening in what is left of this year. This is good, not bad. This is because there may be even more games coming soon, thanks to the "new blood" on these boards. If those other new games do arrive safely, get dumped, get passed on, and work fine, then I will include them in one big upgrade, at that time. But for now, with more games perhaps coming soon, it makes no sense for me to do one upgrade now, then turn around immediately and do it again. I don't need the double-work, and neither do you guys. -- Ward Shrake -- 1175 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:17am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Manuals_and_instruction_sheets/Bandai_Arcadia.zip Uploaded by : stefanpiasecki Description : Japanese manuals of Dr. Slump and Doraemon You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Manuals_and_instruction_sheets/Bandai_Arcadia.zip To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, stefanpiasecki 1176 From: "Stefan Piasecki " Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 8:19am Subject: Bandai manuals stefanpiasecki Mateys, sorry for being late again, but at last I scanned and uploaded those manuals. Have fun. Ah, and if soebody can translate them I'd appreciate that a lot. Because I cannot and especially in Dr. Slump I am not entirely sure if what I am doing is what I should do. I guess so, but then again... Stefan 1177 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:53pm Subject: Fun link; Bandai games instructions slapdash26 For a page of Arcadia 2001 mini-reviews, check out: http://grblitz.overclocked.org/emerson.htm Also, did anyone see my note about the Bandai game instruction scans? Any advice? (Summary -- they're HUGE as 200 dpi TIFF; would people rather they were lower resolution, or JPG?). -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1178 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Thu Dec 12, 2002 10:18pm Subject: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Russ Perry Jr wrote: > For a page of Arcadia 2001 mini-reviews, check out: > http://grblitz.overclocked.org/emerson.htm Yeah, I already flamed this lamer about a year ago... I have uploaded "interim" versions of Hobo and Grand Slam Tennis, into the "patched games" area. These are both now quite playable, but there are still graphics glitches in Hobo and minor paddle problems for player 1 in Grand Slam Tennis. The colours on both have been altered; however, I need someone familiar with the game on the genuine console to run these both under MESS and tell me whether the new colours are actually correct. 1179 From: slapdash@... Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 2:43am Subject: Re: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions slapdash26 Quoting "amigansoftware" : > Russ Perry Jr wrote: > > For a page of Arcadia 2001 mini-reviews, check out: > > http://grblitz.overclocked.org/emerson.htm > Yeah, I already flamed this lamer about a year ago... Actually, I've gotta stick up for this guy... He's a friend and former faned (take a look around the rest of grblitz.overclocked.org) with a fun sense of humor. He does have a tendency to yell "it's crap!" faster than Jay Sherman (movie critic from the TV cartoon "The Critic" for US TV impaired readers), but he knows games pretty damn well if I say so myself. And honestly, didn't you think the "Emersuck" logo was funny? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1180 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 6:17am Subject: Everything changes, everything ends commie_fan After much thought, I have decided it is time that I must take firm action to manage my personal time and other resources more effectively. As part of a larger effort to better arrange my own personal priorities, I plan to stop being a content provider for the Classic Gaming community, more or less "Cold Turkey," as of the end of the 2002 calendar year. From that point forward, I plan to spend much more time with a number of other hobbies that are totally unrelated to video gaming, computers, or the Internet. I miss my other hobbies quite a bit. I find that I am no longer willing to do without them in my life. I still enjoy playing some old games (and even some newer games) once in awhile. But reading about them constantly, writing about them constantly, and thinking about them constantly sounds a lot like an obsession, not a hobby. It is not what I want for myself. I no longer enjoy the "reading about," "writing about," and "thinking about" parts of this hobby enough to justify the time that I've spent on those things in the past. So, I'm cutting things back to just "playing old games, once in awhile" which I see as being wiser and healthier. There is a wise Zen adage, which says that if you can't bear to give something up, then you do not own it. Rather, it owns you. That strikes a deep, resonant chord with me at this point in my life. Ever since I first became a sort of self-appointed content provider for the more obscure fringes of the retro-gaming hobby, on or about 1994, my other hobbies and interests have all been pushed deeply into the background of my life. I have tried various things over these eight-plus years to try to balance my retro-gaming activities and my other hobbies. But I have never achieved the quality or quantity of balance that I desire. So long as the door was open, even a little bit, I kept going back and doing the same old things. Not that any of them were "bad" in themselves, mind you. But I feel there are huge areas of my life that have not been explored nearly enough, while this single area has been gone over extensively. Time I forced myself to close that door and move on. -- Ward Shrake -- 1182 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 8:27am Subject: Re: Everything changes, everything ends dieterk_ccc Sometimes I think that the classic game collecting and archeology hobby takes too much of my time which I would like to use for other things. It's not easy to force myself to spend that time otherwise. But I am pretty sure that I will do the same as Ward some day too ... or at least take a break. Browsing ebay and other auction sites at least twice a day, reading tons of websites and bulletin boards, IRCing daily in the evening, writing articles ... all that takes very much time ... often too much time and life is short ... So Ward's decision is a pity for the community but I understand it. 1183 From: "mc71de " Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 10:55am Subject: Nothing will ever be really finished; was:Everything changes, everything ends mc71de Hi Ward, hi group. This message of Ward does leave some questions to me: -Why do important things always happen when i do not really have time to deal with them? (rhetorical question, but indeed i am quite busy at the moment) -Not a question, but an explanation of the subject line: 'It never will be finished', is commonly said about the Cologne Cathedral, meaning when the workers have finished one end, they can continue work at the other because there it's falling apart again. Talking about Arcadia Land, i don't think *anyone* will *ever* get the 'complete picture'. But now for the 'real stuff': -What will be the consequences for this message board? Will it continue in it's current state, with Ward as a formal list owner, and the two co-moderators; or do you think about closing it alltogether? If i may wish something, please do not do that. Of course, anyone can go and open another Y!Group, and we can save all the content of the message archive and the files and links sections. But it will be *lots* of work which i would rather like to invest into exploring the Universe of PVI and UVI Gaming Hardware and Software, commonly known as UPUGHS. -What are your plans for your 'Digital Archaeology' web pages? If it is for some web space, i could provide this (ad-free and reliable, but: only i can alter the content). There is a lot of work in there, and i do not really want to loose them, even with the 'DPCG7 original .doc' file on my hard disk, as a kind-of backup. -What about the Emerson FAQ? I do *not* like the idea of leaving it without an official maintainer. And before someone says, 'always the one who asks', no i do not ask to take the job. But i think a 'homeless' faq will either be forgotten, over the years, or we will soon have a situation of two or three competing faq's, which is not really good either. -A question where i probably could find the answer myself, but don't have the time at the moment and it's quite important: Did you keep notes when dumping carts, for what particular system the cart was made? The reason why this question came up lately: we know by now that there are systems with analog control sticks vs. 'digital' pads; and NTSC vs. PAL (timing differences!), and maybe more. Today, it is just a matter of typing this simple question. In a month, maybe, it will be hard to talk you into digging into your hard disk or paper notes. -Not a question, but a personal wish: will you, please, pretty please, drop in every once in a while (maybe every second day, no wait, maybe once in half a year, and tell us how things are going? I mean, we went through the 'pulling the ward' session together earlier this year, and i do not like the idea of 'pulling the plug' totally. And hey, you *do* want to play 'super bug', when it turns up, one day in 2009. Maybe. -And one final, totally off-topic: I know you were into, uh, exact words missing here. [They really didn't teach us the important things in school!] Well, i'll try it with 'plastic model planes'. Did you ever deal with 1-mm-polystyrene sheets? The solid variant, not styrofoam? If yes: what is a practicable way to cut exact traces out of this stuff? (I have a hovercraft model sitting in my cellar waiting to be built for over 20 years now. Maybe next summer...) And if not: don't worry. But i felt it was the last chance to ask... 'nuff asked. Hope you will answer at least one or two of them. But anyway, my best wishes for the future. Take a break of Digital Archaeology, and enjoy whatever hobby you like. I think i said this already, some weeks ago: a hobby is a hobby, and a hobby should be fun. If it becomes an obsession, it is not fun anymore, and thus not a hobby. (But if and when we should find those UAL guys, we will let you know- if you want it or not! Really!) But whatever you do: be happy! And do not forget that weird crowd that made 'pulling the ward' their slogan... Max '-mc' 1184 From: "mc71de " Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:47am Subject: Excitement! mc71de Hi all, this is one of those days i do not know if i like them or not. Some hours ago i was sad and desperate about Wards announcement, and now *that*: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1944958872 Our well-beloved Elektor TV Computer, complete with the (german...) book, three(!) tapes, but without the joysticks. lOOk r@re! OK, calm down boy. But now i need your opinions: -if i should manage to get this, of course i will a) share the tapes with the community (should be no problem to get the digital content), and b) add my spare pair of Interton controllers to the system. -Is anyone else here equally desperate interested into the thing? I surely do not want to talk anyone into letting the auction go, especially with the risk of being overbidden, and lynched by you afterwards... -Has anyone experiance about asking the seller before the auction ends? Maybe inviting him to come here? Or making us an extra copy of the tapes? (The seller claims to have built the computer himself, back in the days...) Excited, and a bit mentally disordered... -mc (read: excuse me if my posting was complete bullshit.) 1185 From: "mc71de " Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:53am Subject: Re: Excitement! mc71de Hi -mc (oops... answering my own postings *g*) and all, --- "mc71de " wrote: > *that*: > > http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1944958872 To add a bit of information: Paul Holmes mentions in the interview Stefan did, that Elektor's 'computer guys' were busy with another system. Look here: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2079671118 (6502, 6532. A bit like a KIM.) -mc 1186 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 1:47pm Subject: Auto Race amigansoftware It seems Auto Race doesn't need patching after all. It plays fine through MESS, and thus presumably with a digital paddle...the trick is to brake on the corners. So I didn't patch it, I just trimmed it down to 4K and uploaded. The only possible problem I can see is that the options screen uses yellow text on a green background, which is rather hard to read. Presumably this is intentional? If someone could check the colours of this, and the interim versions of Hobo and Grand Slam Tennis, it would be very helpful. 1187 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Fri Dec 13, 2002 11:52pm Subject: Circus (interim version) amigansoftware I've uploaded an interim patch of Circus. The following have been fixed: a) controller problems - should work fine on digital controller now b) colours - not sure what the correct colours should be, I suspect they are still wrong, could someone please advise? c) freeze at startup d) some collision detections The following have not been fixed: a) seesaw-acrobat collision seems very finicky, ie. most of the time you die even when hitting the seesaw. Can someone please advise if this is the correct behaviour? b) OPTION and DIFFICULTY buttons seem to interfere with each other c) colours are probably still wrong, as noted above Also comments on the controller sensitivity would be welcomed, ie. is it not sensitive enough, too sensitive, etc. 1188 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:06am Subject: New web site URLs for Ward's web site(s) commie_fan I mentioned before that I would be moving my game web sites off of the servers at "Digital Press" and onto my own ISP account's servers. That move is now more-or-less complete. (The VIC-20 site needs some polish, but that's off-topic here.) The new URLs are in this message board's LINKS section, for both my Arcadia web site and my "Tech Corner" site, but I'll put them here for you "e-mail only" folks. http://home.att.net/~wards.game.history/arcadia/ http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ This is all part of my recent decision to downsize my involvement in retro-gaming; a sort of last-minute "gaining closure" sort of thing. I plan to do a few more things like that; it may take till year's end, but then I plan to be involved in other things, altogether. -- Ward Shrake -- 1189 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:09am Subject: Clearance sale on Ward's multicarts commie_fan Just to let you all know, I only have nine Arcadia multicarts left, and eight Bally Astrocade multicarts left now. I'm selling them at $85 each now, plus shipping. When they're gone, they're gone; sorry. You can see pics of the carts and game lists, here: http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ -- Ward Shrake -- 1190 From: "Charles Morgan " Date: Sat Dec 14, 2002 8:58am Subject: Re: Clearance sale on Ward's multicarts ventrra Ward: Would it be possible to get you to hold one of the Arcadia multicarts until January? I'll certainly have the $$ for it in whatever format you'd like to use (please post or e-mail this info if it's possible), but there's no way for me to do this during this calendar month (Christmas spending has tapped me out). If not, I understand. Charles Morgan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Ward Shrake " wrote: > Just to let you all know, I only have nine Arcadia multicarts left, > and eight Bally Astrocade multicarts left now. I'm selling them at > $85 each now, plus shipping. When they're gone, they're gone; sorry. > > You can see pics of the carts and game lists, here: > > http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ > > -- Ward Shrake -- 1191 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:08am Subject: Re: Clearance sale on Ward's multicarts commie_fan As I said: when they are gone, they are gone. I need the money, and I need it now. First come, first served. As I've said before on these boards, I have much bigger problems than deciding how to distribute a disposable income; like whether or not I have a roof over my head. I already lost my apartment in August. I don't want to lose the rented room I'm living in now, but that's the reality without more income. I might consider a two thirds payment up front, with the rest to come within 30 days, but that is absolutely as far as I can bend. I am going to put a running tally of how many carts are left, on my "Ward's Tech Corner" web site. See the LINKS section here for that new URL. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Charles Morgan " wrote: > Ward: > Would it be possible to get you to hold one of the Arcadia > multicarts until January? I'll certainly have the $$ for it in > whatever format you'd like to use (please post or e-mail this info if > it's possible), but there's no way for me to do this during this > calendar month (Christmas spending has tapped me out). If not, I > understand. > > Charles Morgan > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Ward Shrake > " wrote: > > Just to let you all know, I only have nine Arcadia multicarts left, > > and eight Bally Astrocade multicarts left now. I'm selling them at > > $85 each now, plus shipping. When they're gone, they're gone; sorry. > > > > You can see pics of the carts and game lists, here: > > > > http://home.att.net/~wards.tech.corner/ > > > > -- Ward Shrake -- 1192 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:23am Subject: Re: Everything changes, everything ends commie_fan Dieter: Thanks a lot for those positive comments. I say "positive" because you didn't ask me to stay, or in any other way think solely of yourself and what you might lose when I'm gone. I have "quit" other sub-segments of the gaming hobby before, and have found that the majority of people who comment at all have some sort of a "but I won't get any more toys if you leave" sort of comment. (Which just hastens my exit, and confirms that it was a good idea to be leaving.) Or the other one I love, after doing years of unpaid brain work for others: "don't worry, guys, someone will magically appear to replace him. It's inevitable." That's really irritating! All: I'm not saying anyone here said anything like that. I just expect it from certain groups. I'm glad this group was better behaved. Dieter: As for the bulk of your comments, yes, the Internet takes up tons of time. I think of it now as a sort of electronic Black Hole, strongly exerting its gravity on people like me. Unless we can break its hold, and simply get away from it, it will soak up all of some people's time and energy. I see it now as a galaxy of addictive "filler" material. And I am not willing to give up the real content of my life -- what my life should be -- just to fill time. I could be drawing, painting, writing fiction, watching movies, playing with my nephews, picking my nose, watching paint dry on a wall... a thousand things that won't suck up my lifetime, just because I lack the discipline to make a compelling "To Do" list, and actually DO it. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "dieterk_ccc " wrote: > > Sometimes I think that the classic > game collecting and archeology hobby > takes too much of my time which I > would like to use for other things. > It's not easy to force myself to > spend that time otherwise. > > But I am pretty sure that I will > do the same as Ward some day too > ... or at least take a break. > Browsing ebay and other auction > sites at least twice a day, > reading tons of websites and > bulletin boards, IRCing daily in > the evening, writing articles ... > all that takes very much time ... > often too much time and life is short ... > > So Ward's decision is a pity for > the community but I understand it. 1193 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 6:46am Subject: Re: Nothing will ever be really finished, so when a person quits hardly matters commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > (With heavy snippages throughout) > > -What will be the consequences for this message board? Will it > continue in it's current state, with Ward as a formal list owner, > and the two co-moderators; or do you think about closing it > alltogether? If i may wish something, please do not do that. I am not going to close this site down. That would serve no purpose, and would be rude and selfish of me, besides. That thought never occurred to me. In fact, I took action before to make sure this board would outlast my involvement, by letting others be moderators. (If there was a way to transfer ownership, I'd do it. assuming anyone wanted to be the new owner, that is.) You seem to think I now hate this hobby? No, that's not true. I'm just questioning my own continued involvement, and how I could spend the time in other ways. Lately, for me personally, I'm seeing that this is sort of like alcoholism, in a way. It's like I'm a supposedly recovering alcoholic that keeps a well stocked bar in his house. Sooner or later, if it is there, he will drink. And get drunk. And stay drunk, selling his possessions little by little, until everything he owns is gone. (And that is not that big of a stretch, analogy-wise, given my current circumstances!) I actually had six positive and exciting weeks, when I was living in the back of my pickup truck's camper area. Why? I had no computer to exert its gravity on me, and suck me away from the things that SHOULD be most important to me. I read books that I had meant to read twenty or thirty years ago, but never "had time". I started writing kid's stories about and for my younger relatives. That was cool! But as soon as I had a half-stable housing situation, in a short time, I got my own computer back out of storage, and soon after, I fell right back into the same old traps. Suddenly, I no longer "had the time" to do the things I found the time to do, when my computer was physically locked up in a storage facility, out of my reach. I have to conclude that, apparently, I greatly lack the discipline required to deal with the global Internet's exceedingly strong pull on me. I need to get the heck away from it, and fast, before I screw my life up even more than it already is. I need to get back on the pleasing track I was on, just a few short months ago. So to answer your initial "what will happen to this board" question, very literally. I don't know, and I can't afford to care. I have much bigger things to deal with, in both the short term (finances, etc.) and the long term (having a pleasing life). I need to quit coming here, and anywhere else like it on the Internet. I need to stay away from computers and the net, and focus on Real Life instead. But I do not wish anyone else to stop enjoying something, if they really do enjoy it. Be sure you understand that concept, please, or nothing I say here will matter. > -What are your plans for your 'Digital Archaeology' web pages? They are already back online. The new URL's were posted to these message areas, and I posted links in the LINKS section of the board. They will be up as "no longer updated" or "static display" sites. I may make a few updates and tweaks till the first of the year. Then I've told myself that I need to stay away, from then on. I've picked that as the date when I move on into my new life. > -What about the Emerson FAQ? I do *not* like the idea of leaving it > without an official maintainer. And before someone says, 'always the > one who asks', no i do not ask to take the job. I can't afford to care about the Arcadia FAQ. and for the record, I notice that we're already forgetting ourselves here and calling it the "Emerson FAQ" again. The "Arcadia 2001 console group FAQ" is good enough, "as is," in my opinion. I plan to just leave it up on my site, without any significant future changes. > But i think a 'homeless' faq will either be forgotten, over the years, or we > will soon have a situation of two or three competing faq's, which is > not really good either. Better a homeless FAQ than a homeless Ward, in my personal opinion. > -A question where i probably could find the answer myself, but don't > have the time at the moment and it's quite important: OK. This is one of the HUGE things that pushes me away from any further work on this or any other object's "resurrection". No offense, but this logic is nonsense. You only have two choices. Either you (1) choose to make the time, because it is "quite important" or (2) you stop saying it is important while not acting like it is. And if a person COULD answer a question by doing some work on their own, but they want someone else to do it, because they "do not have the time" . what is that but a thinly disguised way to say to another person, "I value your time at precisely nothing, and mine at all-the- money-in-the-world, so drop everything to help me, when I'm perfectly capable of helping my own self." Logically speaking, anyway, this is all true. Think it through, unemotionally, and you'll see the dual-standard, and why it would be extremely annoying to others. On another message board, about some obscure Commodore VIC-20 related project that seems to be dead in the water, I just yesterday posted a short, clear message. The first 13 words said that I had posted new URLs to the LINKS section of that message board. The next four or five replies were blind people helping the blind. Someone (inevitably) asked for help in seeing the full URL's, saying that they could not read them, in the e-mail message they were reading. Not one person said, "PAY ATTENTION! He said to look on the board itself, in the freakin' LINKS section. He even put it in all caps, in the first 13 words, to increase the odds that you'd comprehend it, before your short attention span shut off any further input." Instead, there were four or five guesses at how to get around this non-problem, caused solely by a lack of reading comprehension. I'm not yelling at anyone here. it's the concept that annoys me, and the huge amount of repetition I see of it, that makes me question why I'm answering a question in the first place, let alone the second or third or ten-zillionth time? As I've said here, over the last few weeks. what good is it, taking time to say something, if no one reads it? There are only 33 members here, and most of them don't post anything. Of the few remaining members that post, far too many of them CONSTANTLY act as if there was a two-week limit on their memory, and that none of the various resources that are here, had been painstakingly created. > In a month, maybe, it will be hard to talk you into > digging into your hard disk or paper notes. That's the least of my worries, or yours. In a month, if I don't spend my time wisely (on things like getting a good paying day job) all of my possessions will be sold at auction because I'll be homeless, and can't pay my storage facility bills. > -Not a question, but a personal wish: will you, please, pretty > please, drop in every once in a while (maybe every second day, no > wait, maybe once in half a year, and tell us how things are going? The Internet has too much gravity, for me personally. If I tell myself I'll only have one little drink, in short order, I'll be laying in a gutter, drunk off my ass. I'm just now becoming aware that I'm an Information Junkie. I just have to stay away. I > And hey, you *do* want to play 'super bug', when it turns > up, one day in 2009. Maybe. Actually, I doubt it. I've never done any of my research on any machine, because I liked the games I was researching. Most of them were "blind" . I just heard the name of it, then more about it, then more, and finally archived it. And half the time, the reality of the game itself wasn't enough to justify the time I'd spent. > -And one final, totally off-topic: I know you were into, uh, exact > words missing here. [They really didn't teach us the important > things in school!] Well, i'll try it with 'plastic model planes'. > Did you ever deal with 1-mm-polystyrene sheets? The solid variant, > not styrofoam? If yes: what is a practicable way to cut exact traces > out of this stuff? (I have a hovercraft model sitting in my cellar > waiting to be built for over 20 years now. Maybe next summer...) > And if not: don't worry. But i felt it was the last chance to ask... Check with a scale modeling newsgroup, or something. The more time I spend answering questions - especially in cases where people have already told me they could answer it themselves, if they put forth the effort - the more time I cheat myself out of what my Real Life could be. Which is just plain lame, as I see it now. (Again, I'm trying to just be objective here, not to be mean to anyone.) > Take a break of Digital Archaeology, and enjoy whatever hobby you like. Again, a "break" isn't what's going to happen, for the reasons stated above. I'm wrapping things up, and moving on. I do not have any intentions of coming back. Life is too short, and I have a zillion things I've put off, for FAR too long now. I do plan to enjoy those. I'm already walking that path, as much as resources allow. Keep in mind that I have already given eight of the last nine years of my life to this hobby. I'm forty years old in just a couple of weeks. (Which is one reason I'm making these decisions now, just to have a nice, neat date for it to happen on. That and the end of the year. Not to mention impending financial doom!) If you take the eight years I've given to retro-gaming research, and do the math, you will see that I've "invested" twenty per cent of my life into this hobby. And what I have to show for it are a couple or three web sites, some FAQs, some cart lists, and not a whole lot else that means anything to me, any more. If I had known up front what the effort would have cost me, I would have spent my time doing a lot of other things, instead. Think of it; in eight years, with all the work I did, I could have had an advanced College Degree. (I just have an A.S. and an A.A. now.) I could have written two or three novels, and sold them. I could have.sigh. > But whatever you do: be happy! And do not forget that weird crowd > that made 'pulling the ward' their slogan... I'll likely always have some fond memories of all this, and I don't regret things too much at present, but it IS time to move on, and not look back. I'm changing, I'm growing as a person, and the thought of what the future might hold for me -- with some effort and thought and discipline -- does make me pretty excited. If any of what I've said did bother any of you, well, it's all just my personal opinion. No offense intended. I wish you guys well, and I hope that nothing I've said has tainted your personal enjoyment of this hobby, or your life in general. -- Ward Shrake -- 1194 From: "mc71de " Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 0:25pm Subject: Re: Nothing will ever be really finished, so when a person quits hardly matters mc71de OK., so what is that? First of all, a word of explanation: My recent posting was written in some sort of panic, and panic is not a good advisor. Indeed, quite recently another 'information repository' was shut down without pre-warning, and your 'close the door' statement made me fear the worst. [If anyone should be interested: it was the one-stop information-and-all site for cologne tramways.] --- "Ward Shrake " wrote: > I am not going to close this site down. That would > serve no purpose, and would be rude and selfish of me, > besides. OK, and in fact i did not really expect that to happen. As i said, panic. That other site *did* close, and i did not expect it to- even less than i thought it possible that you wuold close yours. > You seem to think I now hate this hobby? No, i certainly don't. But i was really in the fear you could -for whatever reason ever- have decided to close this message board and your website. I know you announced your move to your personal web site quite recently, but your message sounded so much like a 'complete break-up' that i thought you *might* *eventually* close it. > Lately, for me personally, I'm seeing that this > is sort of like alcoholism, in a way. There really *is* such a thing as internet addiction. And i definitely will not blame anyone if absinence is the only way out. And no, it is not a matter of discipline, or lack of. It *is* in fact the same thing as alcoholism, only the drug is different. And it is nothing 'special'; the mechanism is part of everyone's brain. The only question is *if* and *how* the trigger is activated. (But that's off-topic, and i am no psychologist either.) > So to answer your initial "what will happen to this board" > question, very literally. I don't know If don't delete it, everything is fine. Indeed it's annoying that Yahoo doesn't allow ownership changes. But as long as noone 'steals' your yahoo account, and does 'bad things' with it, everything should be ok. > > -What are your plans for your 'Digital Archaeology' web pages? > > > They are already back online. The new URL's were posted > to these message areas, and I posted links in the LINKS > section of the board. OK. As i said before, i got you wrong and thought it was possible that 'stop being a content provider' could easily mean '...and i will take that site down also'. (bad experiance i had a few weeks ago, as i said.) > > -What about the Emerson FAQ? I do *not* like the > > idea of leaving it without an official maintainer. > I can't afford to care about the Arcadia FAQ. and for > the record, I notice that we're already forgetting > ourselves here and calling it the "Emerson FAQ" again. Hey, it was *my* mistake when writing my message in a hurry. > The "Arcadia 2001 console group FAQ" is good enough, > "as is," in my opinion. I plan to just leave it up on > my site, without any significant future changes. No problem with that. > Better a homeless FAQ than a homeless Ward, in my personal opinion. But maybe a home for the FAQ, too, without any extra expense? Something like holding a poll here on the list, or you recommend an (interim?) FAQ maintainer? Just an idea... > > -A question where i probably could find the > answer myself, but don't have the time at the > moment and it's quite important: > > > OK. [...] but this logic is nonsense. You only have two choices. > Either you (1) choose to make the time, because it is "quite > important" or (2) you stop saying it is important while not acting > like it is. Not OK. Not at all. This question *is* important, for the sake of maintaining the rom archive. But doing my 24 hour job is really *more* important, sorry. So i *didn't* have the time to check your lists, right that very moment, and i was in the impression that things probably couldn't wait till this or next weekend. So a 'don't worry, it's there' would have been enough. Really. > And if a person COULD answer a question by doing some work on their > own, but they want someone else to do it, because they "do not have > the time" . what is that but a thinly disguised way to say to another > person, "I value your time at precisely nothing, and mine at all- the- > money-in-the-world, so drop everything to help me, when I'm perfectly > capable of helping my own self." Sorry, but *this* is nonsense, or at least very short-sighted. I do *not* want to talk about my personal life here, but please understand the following: It was not 'my time is all the money in the world', but it is 'some other person heavily relying on my help' that kept me from browsing your lists. And as i held it at least vaguely possible that the necessary info was *not* in there, or your lists might have gone by the toime i could access them next time, i dared to ask this question, in the interest of my fellow 'Signetics 2637-based game consoles' co-researchers. Not even my own (i could easily live without that info). Plus, if i had been right, it would have been 'last exit to brooklyn' to ask you. You pointed out you are to 'leave business', and i really didn't miss that. > > Logically speaking, anyway, this is all true. Think > it through, unemotionally, and you'll see the dual-standard, > and why it would be extremely annoying to others. No, it is not. A short 'don't worry, it's all there' and maybe a 'hey, i will not take down the lists' would easily have answered my question, and not have annoyed you. OK, i fell into panic. Maybe. And so i asked, while it was time to ask. In the interest of others, who are interested into that special problem more than i am. If i was really that selfish person you want to make me, i wouldn't have asked. I wouldn't even have cared about possibly losing that info. And i wouldn't have excused myself in advance for asking a short 'is it there', which should not really hurt to answer with a short 'yes' or 'no'... [problems on VIC list] So there is one important VIC software maintainer who uses Yahoo Groups as a mailing list (read: dealing with yahoo via e-mail only), and doesn't even know about the group's pages, and sections. Another one is telling him. Now he cannot gain access because he cannot create a yahoo ID with his scandinavian e-mail address. And guess what, a certain german selfish creature will jump over, in a few minutes, and tell him how to solve *that* problem. Please, where is your point? I am sure M.M. is perfectly able to read your message. And as he didn't fully understand it, he asked and got help. > too many of them CONSTANTLY act as if there > was a two-week limit on their memory, and that none > of the various resources that are here, had been > painstakingly created. Maybe the whole console group is too complex to remember every detail? Or maybe sometimes, every once in a while, i repeat myself here because i mistakenly think i discussed a certain problem via private mail with someone? You once referred to me as 'glad he is around, some kind of fresh blood'. If it is rather 'that constantly repeating parrot', it would have been *way* better to tell me in private mail. To all: please, if i annoy someone: tell me in time. Thank you. > > > -Not a question, but a personal wish: will you, please, pretty > > please, drop in every once in a while (maybe every second day, no > > wait, maybe once in half a year, and tell us how things are going? > > > The Internet has too much gravity, for me personally. If I tell > myself I'll only have one little drink, in short order, I'll be > laying in a gutter, drunk off my ass. I'm just now becoming aware > that I'm an Information Junkie. I just have to stay away. OK, i *do* care about people i get to know, and what happens to them. If that interest as such offends you, i am sorry. If it's a matter of using the net, there should be other ways to let us know. Or not, if you don't feel like it. > > And hey, you *do* want to play 'super bug', when it turns > > up, one day in 2009. Maybe. > > > Actually, I doubt it. OK. Point taken. I forgot the humor marker, :-) , right here. But if and when one of the missing games should show up, we will find ways to let you play them, on your whatever-you-have Arcadia-compatible game console. Promised. After all, you spent many years of your life with researching these [insert favourite bad word] machines, and my above statement was meant as our 'paying you back' a little bit of your effort. If you don't feel like making jokes right now, i understand. And yes, i *do* understand how it can be annoying to hunt for something just for the sake of completeliness, not for gaming fun. [Ask me about 'Newscaster!' on the O2, which is a quite rare and expensive demo-only cart here in europe, and not really worth the plastic the case is made from.] But remember the two Bandai carts that were archived lately. (Yes, i know who did it... ) Finally some kind of quality showed up... but maybe it is the utterly bad manuals that gives those games a mystical attraction? I don't know... > > [totally off-topic question] > Check with a scale modeling newsgroup, or something. So i didn't want *some arbitrary* opinion, i wanted *your* personal view of things (even if it was a 'sorry, i did injection moulded kits only'). But i will not have the opportunity to ask you personal questions anymore, anyway. So i do not need to promise not to do it again. > The more time I > spend answering questions - especially in cases where people have > already told me they could answer it themselves, if they put forth > the effort - the more time I cheat myself out of what my Real Life > could be. Which is just plain lame, as I see it now. (Again, I'm > trying to just be objective here, not to be mean to anyone.) So what am i supposed to do if i think (mistakenly, as i know now) that time might be too short to get it done myself? And what is your problem to tell me 'calm down, don't worry, the board and web pages wil stay and all the ROM info is there'? Is it really so hard to understand that i think your work should not be for nothing, but be kept available instead? And that sometimes things we say are understood slightly another way they were meant? Was it really necessary to call me selfish, lame and of short memory in front of thirty-two other people? > Again, a "break" isn't what's going to happen, Well, i didn't say something about the length of the break... And i didn't want you to return as 'active researcher' or whatever (unless you really should feel like it), but maybe as a (kind-of) old friend, dropping in and say hello. But if you feel you have to break with us (as a crowd of human beings), please do so. > Keep in mind that I have already given eight of the > last nine years of my life to this hobby. I know, and therefore i dared to ask some simple questions, to make sure your work is not lost. And considering your first answer, you share that opinion, right? > I'm forty years old in just a couple of weeks. So considering the fact i am born April 9th, 1971, i am now almost the same age you were when you 'got into the business'. Maybe we should talk again in eight years, and see what my point of view is then? > And what I have to show for it are a couple or three > web sites, some FAQs, some cart lists, and not a whole > lot else that means anything to me, any more. If I had > known up front what the effort would have cost me, I > would have spent my time doing a lot of other things, > instead. Hey, come on. Please do not under-estimate things, please. You didn't throw together some 'noone will ever care' cart lists and 'frequently asked questions with answers of questionable quality'. You did research at *very* high standard, and created a trustworthy information pool. After all, what do you expect from a console (-group) with maybe five dozens different games? That sometimes gaining information is a time-consuming and boring job, leading to maybe one or two sentences of extractable information, is out of the question. And your work is, after all, highly concentrated information, not hot-air blown-up marketing blah-blah. > Think of it; in eight years, with all the work I did, > I could have had an advanced College Degree. (I just > have an A.S. and an A.A. now.) I could have written > two or three novels, and sold them. I could have.sigh. Well, you decided to 'dig digital artifacts' instead. And you did a great job with that. And got some fame amongst console and computer collectors. I do not think this is bad. But my personal guideline for my own life was always: Ask myself if what i do is the best thing to do, considering everything i know now. Sometimes this leads me to a wrong decision, but i rarely have to admit that i should have known better. > If any of what I've said did bother any of you, well, > it's all just my personal opinion. No offense intended. Well, it is not easy not to be offended by the words you said. Maybe you will understand a little better why i wrote that message the way i did. If you have a problem with the fact that i cannot be a full-time researcher, i cannot do anything about that. If you have a problem with the fact that i didn't want a certain piece of your research work to vanish into un-reachable-ness, i cannot help it either. But if you have a problem with the fact that i care about people i get to know (and may it even be 'only' via this mailing list), and that i dared to ask you about your very personal experiance in a certain problem, i can help: I won't care anymore, and i won't ask again. Sorry, but i can be harsh, too. But helping a close relative managing her life definitely is more important to me than hunting for a piece of information, that someone else was looking for, and that i feared could become unavailable forever. So calling me 'selfish' in that situation (that even prevented me from finishing my studies, let alone getting some kind of grade or an exam as teacher) *did* hurt. Doing so in public even hurt more. Obviously i mis-interpreted your message, especially the 'closing the door' part. See the very beginning why that has happened. But was it really necessary to answer my posting the way you did, especially since i apologized in advance if i had asked something that was already answered? > I wish you guys well, and I hope that nothing > I've said has tainted your personal enjoyment of > this hobby, or your life in general. Don't worry. It is a pity that you mis-interpreted my interest in keeping your work and called me names for it. For a little bit, it hurts to loose contact. But you did your part to make it easy for me. Really. I would have liked the idea to leave as friends, not enemies. > -- Ward Shrake -- -mc P.S.: I think it is possible that someone or another wants to flame me now. Please do that in private mail, if it must happen; i think i have already caused enough bad emotions on the list. I do not want to add a flame war. Thank you guys. 1195 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 2:28pm Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles slapdash26 At 9:17 PM +0000 12/11/02, arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Manuals_and_instruction_sheets/Bandai_Arcadia.zip I get an error that "Zip entry is garbled" on Doraemon2.jpg... Is anyone else having problems with it? And/or does anyone want to host 70 Meg of 200 DPI TIFF files of these instructions? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1196 From: "mc71de " Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 3:03pm Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles mc71de Hi Russ, --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > I get an error that "Zip entry is garbled" on Doraemon2.jpg... > Is anyone else having problems with it? No, i have no problems with that archive. In case it is just that single file causing you trouble, i uploaded it to the files section, temporary files, manual scans. (ok, i didn't really need to do so, since you *have* the manuals. But maybe it is of any use to someone...) > And/or does anyone want to host 70 Meg of 200 DPI > TIFF files of these instructions? I still wonder why they got *that* big? What compression/color depth are you using? When i do b&w scans, i scan at 256shades of grey, reduce the color depth to 16 (or maybe even 8) and save either as .gif or as LZW- compressed .tiff Saving with G4 fax compression usually gives amazingly small files, but can make small text unreadable. On colored images or b&w photos, it depends how much you can reduce the color depth before getting visible color distortion or 'solarization' effects. And maybe saving as .jpg file can make smaller files, but it is not lossless anymore. Hence .jpg is no good for line art as schematics or text-based pages. And yes, we did discuss that matter, somewhen in june i think. I am just throwing in my personal experiance, made in the last two months. So maybe i could help you (Russ) or anyone else. -mc 1197 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 5:55pm Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles slapdash26 At 4:03 AM +0000 12/15/02, mc71de wrote: >> I get an error that "Zip entry is garbled" on Doraemon2.jpg... >> Is anyone else having problems with it? >No, i have no problems with that archive. In case it is just that >single file causing you trouble, i uploaded it to the files section, >temporary files, manual scans. (ok, i didn't really need to do so, >since you *have* the manuals. But maybe it is of any use to >someone...) And I don't mind having electronic backups of my paper stuff anyway. >> And/or does anyone want to host 70 Meg of 200 DPI >> TIFF files of these instructions? >I still wonder why they got *that* big? What compression/color depth >are you using? You know what? I hadn't thought about it, but it might be color... I'll try running some conversions I guess. Other than that, like I said, they're 200 DPI, which explains it a bit... >When i do b&w scans, i scan at 256shades of grey, reduce the color >depth to 16 (or maybe even 8) and save either as .gif or as LZW- >compressed .tiff It's possible that they're not compressed either; my scanning program isn't always that obvious about things. >Saving with G4 fax compression usually gives amazingly small files, >but can make small text unreadable. Yeah, and the request was for readable for sure, in hopes they might get translated some day. >On colored images or b&w photos, it depends how much you can reduce >the color depth before getting visible color distortion >or 'solarization' effects. And maybe saving as .jpg file can make >smaller files, but it is not lossless anymore. Hence .jpg is no good >for line art as schematics or text-based pages. Right. I did TIFF because JPG was lossy. If nothing else, I might convert mine down to JPG just to take up less space, I guess. >And yes, we did discuss that matter, somewhen in june i think. I am >just throwing in my personal experiance, made in the last two months. I meant more recently, since I'd scanned them, but before they were scanned elsewise. I wasn't sure what to do with them, but if they're properly available now, then no biggie -- I'll either save mine and ignore the other scans, or nuke mine and go for the smaller ones you put in the Files section. Thanks... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1198 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 7:54pm Subject: Game checklists versus Life Experience checklists commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > (big snip) > > Don't worry. It is a pity that you > mis-interpreted my interest in > keeping your work and called me > names for it. For a little bit, > it hurts to loose contact. But > you did your part to make it > easy for me. Really. > > I would have liked the idea to > leave as friends, not enemies. > > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > -mc > > P.S.: I think it is possible that > someone or another wants to flame > me now. Please do that in private > mail, if it must happen; i think > i have already caused enough bad > emotions on the list. I do not > want to add a flame war. Thank > you guys. I'll second that last bit; please, no one flame MC for speaking his mind. I don't understand why he thinks I attacked him, or singled him out? I really don't. I think that he is just emotionally attached to this whole "fear of loss" issue, he was caught off guard, surprised and hurt at my (apparently very sudden) decision to just "pick a date and call it quits" and is, as he himself says, in a panic right now. Please don't take that wrong, MC! (Or anyone else.) If any of you are convinced I was or am angry or bitter or in some other way feeling badly towards anyone here, then please do this; wait a week or two, or even a month -- to let all the panic subside first -- and then re-read what I actually said, earlier. Especially the apologies-in-advance, if I managed to hurt or offend anyone. [Begin: "In my defense"] I used MC's words as an EXAMPLE ONLY, of concepts I've experienced often over eight years. It was not really a rebuke. And if it was one, it was a relatively minor one, and NOT aimed solely at him! (Or even at anyone on the VIC-20 message boards.) Some things "needed" saying, only to warn others that all writers need readers, and if a person is writing and feeling unread, they'll feel unappreciated. If they feel unappreciated, they'll seek out another audience. Period. It's something to think of and keep in mind, if you guys want to retain future writers over the long term. (Which is not a rebuke; it is just my point of view, as a writer.) Again, this is a GENERAL observation: as I've seen on Usenet and on the net, most people simply "skim" things instead of reading them. Skimming inevitably causes unnecessary confusion. Carefully reading things the first time, saves HUGE amounts of typing and reading, later on. I feel it is easier to just slow down, the first time, and to think about what a person wrote, than it is to read half a dozen misinformed replies, trying to straighten out unnecessary confusion? Sometimes even that fails to rectify the problem; see any Usenet thread for evidence of this sort of thing. (And sometimes here, too.) These skimmers often later say, "Well, I just didn't have time to..." when it causes problems. Which is annoying, if not infuriating, to the guiltless parties involved; the writers who were clear, up front. And yet, most people skim over things anyway, as if every writer in the world just threw in 400 extra words per page at random, which all need to be filtered out. Sometimes, every single word that is there counts for a great deal. Sometimes what is NOT there, still counts. Famous writers I respect a great deal, such as Henry David Thoreau, even go so far as to say that a reader ought to spend as much time reading a writer's words, as the writer spent on writing them. The idea of actually doing that, however, seems foreign on the Internet. I'm sorry, but on this one point, I still do not feel that there is any easy-to-accept excuse for this. It strikes me as childish and irresponsible to say "I didn't have time". Make it. Or don't post, and muddy the waters. I feel that if a writer was clear and concise the first time, it is the READER'S fault when communications fail. If a writer MADE the time to write clearly, then try to respect that. And more times than not on the Internet, once on a downhill slide, things degrade quickly as others enter the picture. These newcomers, who also just skimmed things instead of reading them, and also didn't fully comprehend them, try to help the first confused person when that person asks a question that was pointless in the first place. Maybe this is just me, but I tend to dread Usenet-type posts that start with, "I think that...." In general, thinking isn't happening at all. They are wildly speculating, when speculation isn't necessary. It is hard for a writer not to see this as the "blind leading the blind," especially if the situation then repeats every few weeks. When the information is sitting right in front of a group of people, and they ALL collectively ignore it and start guessing from scratch, it boggles writer's minds, and collectively makes them individually wonder why they are "wasting their breath"? Since what they just got through saying was apparently not heard by anyone, why repeat it? Maybe I'm just biased, since I consider myself a writer. Whatever. Maybe a language barrier exists; that's possible, too. But many times, those with supposed language barriers speak better English than many people who were born with English as their mother tongue. I often hear people who communicate very well, apologizing for it. One last example: programming and writing aren't that far apart. If you were to write a computer program, feed it to a machine, and get a huge amount of read errors solely due to the machine's faulty processing and/or input mechanisms, would you continue to program that machine? Or would you, more likely, go find one that "paid attention" to you properly the first time, and acted predictably? Try writing for eight solid years, before you judge me too harshly for saying these things! (And make sure to do it all for free, to make it fair.) [End: "In my defense"] But enough of all that; at the end of the day, I'd rather "be friends than be right" so I'll just say, again, that I'm only expressing my opinion. Nothing more. MC is, and remains, "fresh new blood" here. That's still a good thing for this group. All you new guys are a good thing here, naturally. As I leave, they can replace me. Their timing seems impeccable, to me? Back to my main point: those few previous comments of mine that apparently sounded like an attack, likely will not continue to do so if you guys wait awhile to let the current, momentary panic subside. Once you read this next few paragraphs, and fill in some blanks you're currently missing, you'll see it all in a brand new light. MC, you're apparently thinking that you personally somehow caused my decision(s). I promise you, you did not. No one here did. Things often happen outside this subculture, which have ripple effects. So: why am I leaving the classic gaming scene, as a content provider? And specifically, why did this happen so quickly, and with so little warning in advance? That's easy. Panic. Not MC's; my own, personal panic, for entirely different reasons. Did this truly come on "suddenly"? Yes and no. I've been saying that I had lost some motivation, ever since the Usenet attacks on homebrew types, back in mid-2001... that's 18 months ago now. I said then that I considered my days as a "content provider" to be numbered. It was no secret. (In fact, some people probably wished I would shut up about it!) Internally, I've been distancing myself, ever since then, one tiny increment at a time. That may answer "why?," but does not answer "why now?" very well. There are two reasons for that. One is the "Internet Addiction" thing I mentioned, in response to some comments of Dieter's. I feel a lot like the Roman Emporer that fiddled, as Rome burned. That's not good. Second, this last week or so was full of life-altering epiphanies for me, one right after another. Stuff I myself didn't see coming. Not the least of which was the question "What would I be doing with my life, if I only had [insert various time periods here] to live"? Ask yourself that question... would YOU be here, reading what is on MY mind if you only had (for example) one week to live? One day? One year? If you actually knew the hour of your departure, what would you be doing differently, right this minute? This week? This month? Etc. That's a scary question. And the answer varies for each of us. Things that seem really important, when you assume you have decades of life left, suddenly fall into the "who cares" category with less time on one's personal clock. Or at least, "I care now less than I used to". Why would I ask myself that question? Am I, in fact, going to die soon? No, not that I know of. But no one lives forever. I've personally known people that died at age eight, in their early 20's, and at 45. I am about to turn 40, myself, in a couple of weeks. (Hence the question of what I'd do, if I only had five years left to live.) In this local area, one of the not-too-elderly librarians passed away, just a few weeks ago. I'd spoken to her, just a week or two before. Add in my current financial struggles, etc., and it just seems like a good question to ask one's self, at this point. Call it a mid-life crisis, if you wish to do that. Or a panic; that explains it OK, too. So you see, this is all very relative and very subjective. I am not saying "this whole retro-gaming hobby sucks, and you are all stupid to still be involved with it". No. I am not saying that. Do what you want to do; its your life, and who am I to tell you what is or is not a good way to spend your time? But as for me, I've given this whole thing eight solid years, and it is time I moved on to other things. One other thing to consider; maybe some of you give more weight to my words, just because it is me doing the talking? I know from my work as an actor, that sometimes people get too easily hurt at any real or imagined slight that comes from someone that is considered to be a celebrity or whatever, while if a random stranger off the street said or did the exact same thing, it would not mean a thing to anyone. I'm not saying I'm a celebrity, but sometimes people put published authors and the like on more of a pedestal than is really warranted. I am "just a guy" here, and my words shouldn't count for much more than their value in electrons, same as anyone else' words here. So, hopefully that straightens things back out? I hope so. I too would like to "part as friends, not enemies". (Life is too short for that sort of sh*t!) I leave with no ill feelings for any of you. I'm leaving for purely personal reasons, and as I said earlier, I plan to preserve my efforts at preservation (to put a humorous spin on it). I'll probably be in here, once in awhile for the next week or so, as I wrap up a few loose ends. But then I plan to have my web sites up as "no-longer-updated, static displays," and I'll be elsewhere. If it makes any of you feel better about me "leaving," then think of it this way; I've gone from collecting video games and checking them off on some big list somewhere, to collecting life experiences that I want to do at least once before I die. I've just upped the ante, and I will soon have a different checklist. In that sense, things are as they always were with me. And we should all be happy about that. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 1199 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Sun Dec 15, 2002 10:15pm Subject: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions commie_fan I have to admit that I'm whole-heartedly with Russ on this one, and I think James may be over-reacting a bit. If we can't ever laugh at ourselves, or accept some stranger's unsolicited opinion on the game play of this software library without anger or hurt feelings, then we're probably obsessed way beyond reasonable limits. This board's charter even says that fun is allowed here, and I'd say that review article counts as something fun. We're guilty of it, ourselves, with that "Worst Of" database I put up recently. It's just a hobby, not the cure to cancer, as I've said before. That writer admittedly has some technical details wrong, but so what? So does every other web site on the subject, from what we've seen. This guy's only real crime seems to have been to say something we fear to say around here, as if it is Strictly Taboo... most of the games are not fun to play. Well, they're not. He's just saying so. This won't make me very popular around here, but frankly, I think that most of the best games on this console only rate as high as the average solid "B" rated game on the Atari 2600. And backing that up is the fact that "UA Limited" themselves did ports to the 2600. Just my two cents, or maybe less. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, slapdash@e... wrote: > Quoting "amigansoftware" : > > Russ Perry Jr wrote: > > > For a page of Arcadia 2001 mini-reviews, check out: > > > http://grblitz.overclocked.org/emerson.htm > > > Yeah, I already flamed this lamer about a year ago...obviously he > > knows nothing. > > Actually, I've gotta stick up for this guy... He's a friend and > former faned (take a look around the rest of grblitz.overclocked.org) > with a fun sense of humor. He does have a tendency to yell "it's > crap!" faster than Jay Sherman (movie critic from the TV cartoon > "The Critic" for US TV impaired readers), but he knows games pretty > damn well if I say so myself. > > And honestly, didn't you think the "Emersuck" logo was funny? > -- > //*================================================================++ > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// > > > ------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 1201 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 0:41am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Patched_games/dr-slum!.zip Uploaded by : amigansoftware Description : Fixed version of Dr. Slump for use with MESS, and uncommented disassembly. You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Patched_games/dr-slum%21.zip To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, amigansoftware 1202 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 1:16am Subject: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Ward Shrake " wrote: > I have to admit that I'm whole-heartedly with Russ on this one, and I > think James may be over-reacting a bit. If we can't ever laugh at > ourselves, or accept some stranger's unsolicited opinion on the game > play of this software library without anger or hurt feelings, then > we're probably obsessed way beyond reasonable limits. > > This board's charter even says that fun is allowed here, and I'd say > that review article counts as something fun. We're guilty of it, > ourselves, with that "Worst Of" database I put up recently. I don't have any problem with Russ for mentioning the site of course, (I think my site was even linking to it at one point), I hope I didn't give that impression... But has this fellow really nothing better to do than write pages about how much he hates the Arcadia? What did it ever do to him!? At least Ward and myself and the rest of us here are "wasting" our time producing useful information and/or software. This fellow is spending the time to derogate the Arcadia. He has it singled out for special attention, not only on that page, but all over his site. I could probably come up with a huge list of consoles which were as "bad" or worse as the Arcadia, he seems to think it was conceived as some kind of evil plot. I would not class the Arcadia as an utter failure either, surely it would not have been licensed by so many manufacturers in so many countries? And no one would have heard of them. I'd be interested to know some sales figures for the whole console family, I doubt we will ever find out, but I suspect it would be considerable. [I won't hazard a guess, I don't think Ward would like that :-)] They were fairly common at the time in Australia and the games for it were widely available for a couple of years even in pharmacies and department stores and such places. > It's just a hobby, not the cure to cancer, as I've said before. > > That writer admittedly has some technical details wrong, but so what? > So does every other web site on the subject, from what we've seen. > This guy's only real crime seems to have been to say something we > fear to say around here, as if it is Strictly Taboo... most of the > games are not fun to play. Well, they're not. He's just saying so. > > This won't make me very popular around here, but frankly, I think > that most of the best games on this console only rate as high as the > average solid "B" rated game on the Atari 2600. And backing that up > is the fact that "UA Limited" themselves did ports to the 2600. Gimme an Arcadia over a (expletives deleted) Atari any day. You can't get Super Bug or Jump Bug on Atari... :-) There are crap games on every platform. The question of which system is "better" does not really matter, they are all 20+ years old and "obsolete" by any objective measure. People who want the "best" versions of the game can generally download and play the coin-op (MAME) version, if the game was a coin-op port. But what angered me was that I went to the trouble of sending him an email about some of the inaccuracies on the page (eg. he obviously didn't seem to know how to play some of the games - obviously he has not done *his* research by reading the gaming guide), and he flamed me in return. 1203 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 6:13am Subject: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware " wrote: (snip) > But what really angered me was > that I went to the trouble of > sending him an email about > some of the inaccuracies on > the page (eg. he obviously > didn't seem to know how to > play some of the games - > obviously he has not done > *his* research by reading > the gaming guide), and he > flamed me in return. Well, I won't ask who flamed who first; I suppose that's subjective and moot. In an ideal world, people wouldn't treat each other poorly over opinions, and rude or abrasive people get under my skin, too. And I do understand your frustrations with technical inaccuracies, as you guys all know. Hey, if you're going to slam something or someone, at least know who you are slamming, right? He's blaming Emerson, and as we all know, the writer should be blaming Philips instead! ;-) You made a lot of other well-reasoned points in your post, James. Part of my "need" to have done any of this reseach, writing, etc., is just because I'm what they call an "INTJ" in Personality Type research books. (Your stereotypical "Spock from Star Trek" nerd.) And in that capacity, I could have been researching pocket lint, instead of game carts. (Sorted by weight, color, texture, fragrance, etc.?) So I'm not particularly upset over "bad reviews" of the games, since I wasn't doing my research because of game quality in the first place. It was an interesting puzzle, an interesting mental challenge, and that was good enough for me at the time. I think the thought that sums it up best is that MAME or the Real Thing -- the original coin-op arcade game a console game was based on -- is really the best way to get a particular gaming experience. If indeed, game play is what a person is even concentrating on. Researchers have their particular agenda, as do for-entertainment- rather-than-to-inform writers (such as that web guy apparently is), collectors have a different agenda than game players... but we are all people. Just because we march to a different drummers beat, does not necessarily mean we're "right" or "wrong" on matters of opinion. But part of me, which doesn't mind a laugh at my own expense, laughed hard over that guy's reviews. I have to admit that after four years of research into this console group, that I've come full circle in a way. What I mean is, I was once just as ignorant of the realities of who- did-what-when, as this Negative Reviewer guy. While having the idea that the machine's games were not all that great, based on what I had seen of them. Now, after four years of painstaking work, I'm much better informed as to who did what when. But truthfully, with few exceptions, I am still not excited about the bulk of games on this console. So in a very abstract way, on some levels, I like what that guy wrote, and agree with it, while being in a totally different place. Only "Astro Invaders" and "Doraemon" are ones that stick out in my own mind as being really decent, solid games that I look forward to playing. Even if I added another half a dozen OK games to that list, so what? You could argue the same for any console, as James said. To me, those two make the console worth keeping, to play once in awhile. I suppose if I were to play Devil's Advocate here, I'd say that when you have a small library, with a certain percentage of good games in it, that it becomes easier to wade through the "filler" than in a larger library on a different machine, with the same percentage of good games. (Easier to wade through 45 so-so games on the Arcadia, as opposed to 450 so-so games on the Atari 2600.) Whatever. I'm just rambling. Ignore me. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 1204 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 6:31am Subject: Re: Everything changes, everything ends dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Ward Shrake " wrote: > Dieter: As for the bulk of your comments, yes, the Internet takes up > tons of time. I think of it now as a sort of electronic Black Hole, > strongly exerting its gravity on people like me. Unless we can break > its hold, and simply get away from it, it will soak up all of some > people's time and energy. I see it now as a galaxy of addictive > "filler" material. And I am not willing to give up the real content > of my life -- what my life should be -- just to fill time. I could be > drawing, painting, writing fiction, watching movies, playing with my > nephews, picking my nose, watching paint dry on a wall... a thousand > things that won't suck up my lifetime, just because I lack the > discipline to make a compelling "To Do" list, and actually DO it. That's right. And sometimes I am thinking of jumping off the train. If I would sell me collection on ebay over a period of some weeks I would probably get about $15,000. That would be enough money for a fantastic vacation with my fiancee ... Sun, sea, sand, relaxing and just enjoying life ... then coming home and doing something completely different, without videogames :) Well, still the videogames and the internet are stronger ... But I am 4 years younger than Ward, so who knows what will be in 4 years ... I wish you all the best Ward, and hope to see you again some day, maybe on a sunny island ... ;) 1205 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:44am Subject: Re: Disassembly of >4K ROMs commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware" wrote: (snip) > By the way some of the ROMs > have been overdumped; eg. > Jump Bug, Spiders and Red > Clash are actually only 4K. > So they disassemble > without problems. I'll > post trimmed versions > sometime. I'm not sure where you got your ROM set, James? I just looked on my hard drive, and my set shows that we have collectively had Spiders and Red Clash trimmed down to 4k since April 2002. (Thanks to PeT, as I recall, keeping me honest.) So while I agree with the size you're talking about on those two games, there are other issues here that I have little or no control over such as outdated ROMs on other's sites. On Jump Bug: sorry, I don't agree that's an overdump. Look at the top half using a hex editor; that is not random data. It seems to be map data, if anything. I'm sure it shows as garbage in a disassembly. I'm open to other opinions, but as usual, want to verify things well. It would not do to post an "improved" ROM image that doesn't work 100%. -- Ward Shrake -- 1206 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 7:46am Subject: Re: Everything changes, everything ends commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "dieterk_ccc " wrote: (snip) > I wish you all the best Ward, and > hope to see you again some day, > maybe on a sunny island ... ;) Heehee. Sounds good to me, Dieter! Thanks for the nice words, and I wish you all the best, as well. -- Ward Shrake -- 1207 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:08am Subject: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions slapdash26 At 2:16 PM +0000 12/15/02, amigansoftware wrote: >I don't have any problem with Russ for mentioning the site of course, >(I think my site was even linking to it at one point), I hope I >didn't give that impression... No, not in my case. It's just that the guy who owns the site is a friend, so I rose to defend his honor. I didn't feel that I'D been attacked... >But has this fellow really nothing better to do than write pages >about how much he hates the Arcadia? What did it ever do to him!? Evidently, it bored, frustrated and angered him. To comment as such is fair, in my book. >This fellow is spending the time to derogate the Arcadia. He has it >singled out for special attention, not only on that page, but all >over his site. I could probably come up with a huge list of consoles >which were as "bad" or worse as the Arcadia Believe me, this guy will have made lots of fun of those systems as well, if he's had the chance to play them too. That's the thing you might have missed -- the humor. I mean, this guy does have strong opinions, in this case that the Emerson sucked, but he writes with as much humor as venom. >I would not class the Arcadia as an utter failure either, surely it >would not have been licensed by so many manufacturers in so many >countries? I have to disagree with this one... In my opinion, there were a bunch of companies who had been ignoring videogames, or took a "wait and see" attitude a little too long, and snapped up whatever they could rather than take the time and effort to make their own system. I can't say this about all companies who carried this line, but it's certainly true in Emerson's case. In other words, it was an act of desperation, and it didn't work. It failed. Utterly. At least here in the US. I mean, in NYC, only a couple/few months after it was introduced, they were selling the system at $10 as a "loss leader". I didn't mis-type that -- TEN DOLLARS, for the SYSTEM. That hardly sounds like a success to me. >And no one would have heard of them. I'd be interested to >know some sales figures for the whole console family, I doubt we will >ever find out, but I suspect it would be considerable. In other countries, maybe, but not here. Only APF could have done worse in the 1982-1985 period I think, or RCA before that. >Gimme an Arcadia over a (expletives deleted) Atari any day. You can't >get Super Bug or Jump Bug on Atari... :-) Uh, I won't bother to type the list of Atari games you can't get on the Arcadia, since I don't want carpal tunnel syndrome... >But what really angered me was that I went to the trouble of sending >him an email about some of the inaccuracies on the page (eg. he >obviously didn't seem to know how to play some of the games - >obviously he has not done *his* research by reading my gaming guide), >and he basically flamed me in return and was extremely abrasive. I'm sorry to hear that... Having not seen either your email to him or his to you, I can't comment one way or the other, but if he was a bit abrasive, I apologize. I certainly didn't intend that... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1208 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 10:43am Subject: Ward just resigned as a Digital Press author commie_fan Just for the record, as part of my on-going "downsizing" efforts I have just now sent Joe Santulli of Digital Press my section-author's official resignation letter. So now Joe is (or soon will be) aware that I don't intend to write anything new for the Digital Press Collector's Guide. DPCG#7 will be my last time writing for them, before I "retired". Before I did so, I had asked Russ Perry Jr. if he wanted the Arcadia section "back," as a courtesy, since I'd sort of stolen it from him during DPCG#6. And since he said here previously, that perhaps if I ever gave the section up again, that maybe he'd like to take it back. As it turns out, it appears schedule concerns won't allow Russ to do that, until and unless something changes in his situation. (My apologies to Russ, if I wasn't supposed to say this publicly?) So the Arcadia 2001 console group is now without an official author. I have no idea how Joe Santulli will choose to handle this; it is his decision to make. The DPCG#7 printed guide was just released this past August, and they generally take about two years between the printed editions (give or take), so there should be plenty of time for Digital Press to find a replacement author for me. For now, I doubt the public will have any clue, and doubt it will cause anyone any special grief? Joe does have my permission to use my "old stuff" in his future guides, so primarily it is a question of updates, now. I won't be doing those updates, and I have no idea who eventually will. Worse case, I imagine Joe would end up doing that himself. He has message boards and e-mail accounts on his Digital Press site, where you guys that are still "around" can go, to submit new info. -- Ward Shrake -- 1209 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 11:08am Subject: Re: Ward just resigned as a Digital Press author slapdash26 At 11:43 PM +0000 12/15/02, Ward Shrake wrote: >Before I did so, I had asked Russ Perry Jr. if he wanted the Arcadia >section "back," as a courtesy, since I'd sort of stolen it from him >during DPCG#6. And since he said here previously, that perhaps if I >ever gave the section up again, that maybe he'd like to take it back. >As it turns out, it appears schedule concerns won't allow Russ to do >that, until and unless something changes in his situation. (My >apologies to Russ, if I wasn't supposed to say this publicly?) I have no problem with saying it publicly, but I should clarify that I'm willing to take it back if there's no one else who can step up; my only concern is if there are major updates to the intro required that I won't be able to do it. The occasional game list update, or minor updates to the intro should be possible. But since I can't promise it, I'll back off a bit. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1210 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Mon Dec 16, 2002 11:30pm Subject: Re: Disassembly of >4K ROMs amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Ward Shrake " wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware" > wrote: > (snip) > > By the way some of the ROMs > > have been overdumped; eg. > > Jump Bug, Spiders and Red > > Clash are actually only 4K. > > So they disassemble > > without problems. I'll > > post trimmed versions > > sometime. > > > I'm not sure where you got your ROM set, James? I just looked on my > hard drive, and my set shows that we have collectively had Spiders > and Red Clash trimmed down to 4k since April 2002. (Thanks to PeT, as > I recall, keeping me honest.) So while I agree with the size you're > talking about on those two games, there are other issues here that I > have little or no control over such as outdated ROMs on other's sites. I don't remember exactly where the ROMs came from either, various sources as I recall. I intend to make an "official collection" of Arcadia ROMs, including original and patched versions, at some point, which should help. > On Jump Bug: sorry, I don't agree that's an overdump. Look at the top > half using a hex editor; that is not random data. It seems to be map > data, if anything. I'm sure it shows as garbage in a disassembly. I'm > open to other opinions, but as usual, want to verify things well. It > would not do to post an "improved" ROM image that doesn't work 100%. You're absolutely right, that was actually a mistake. There's no code in the second 4K, but the map data is there. I realized my mistake fairly soon. I posted trimmed versions of the other two, although apparently that was unnecessary. The original message seemed to be ignored at the time so I didn't bother to mention anything after that, I just trimmed the other two and left Jump Bug at 8K. 1211 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Wed Dec 18, 2002 0:33am Subject: Finalized patches amigansoftware I've now completed patching the Arcadia game library. Not every bug in every game has been fixed, but every game is now at least 99% compatible. I plan to take a break from patching for a few weeks, but I'll still be open to hearing your suggestions on what needs doing. Of course we now have cross-assemblers, disassemblers, tech docs, disassemblies, etc. so that any programmer can do patches, not just myself. There are now no 'interim' versions, everything is at V1.0 at the moment. If you downloaded any of the three interim versions I would advise you to delete them and replace them with the finalized versions. I've deleted the individual ZIP archives I had been posting. Now there is an "official" ROM pack available, with original and patched (if available) versions of all games. There are 51 games in all. Let them come and claim it was their ROMS... heheheh :-D The disassemblies have all gone into a separate archive; there are a total of 13 of these. I feel this is a very significant advance of the state of Arcadia emulation. I will be posting news to most major emulation sites tonight advising them of this. Hopefully it will reignite interest in this console family among the wider retrogaming community. 1212 From: Peter Trauner Date: Wed Dec 18, 2002 5:27pm Subject: Re: Finalized patches grumpfix amigansoftware wrote: >I've deleted the individual ZIP archives I had been posting. Now >there is an "official" ROM pack available, with original and patched >(if available) versions of all games. There are 51 games in all. Let >them come and claim it was their ROMS... heheheh :-D > > Please post the crc32s of the interim patches (I missed some of them) (allows everybody to identify these images) Peter 1213 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Wed Dec 18, 2002 9:26pm Subject: Re: Finalized patches amigansoftware > Please post the crc32s of the interim patches (I missed some of them) > (allows everybody to identify these images) > > Peter Aaarrgh, sorry but I deleted them already :-( Maybe someone else has a copy? The Grand Slam Tennis and Hobo finalized versions are the same as the interim versions anyway, only Circus is different. And the versions of Circus are easy to tell apart: the interim version has a black background, the finalized version has a white background. I also don't think the interim version of Circus will see much circulation as the collision detection was bad; it was released mainly to ascertain what the correct colours should be. (Which is something I still don't know by the way; the finalized version (ie. V1.0) has a white background but this is for clarity only, it is not necessarily correct.) 1214 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Thu Dec 19, 2002 10:15am Subject: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions commie_fan Following up on the "Emersuck" web page, which Russ originally posted the URL to: http://grblitz.overclocked.org/emerson.htm The page's author just revised it. I've been talking to him in e- mail, and while I take zero credit for his recent changes, I have made him aware now of some information he did not previously have. (He did his update on his own, before seeing any of my info.) As you'll see, he has now gone from slamming the whole library as awful, to just most of it. He has found some "new" (to him) games that he likes, and he said so publicly. To those of you upset at his previous assessment of the machine and its software library, this will be a welcome change, I'd imagine? James, are you listening? :-) I've also made him aware that the emulation of this console is NOT perfect, and that if he is judging the real things ultimately quality by the emulators, he is close but not precisely correct. I said that if one were to be picky with his definitions, the emu is really not a full-on emulation at all; it is closer to a "port" since so much of the two main chips' internal organization and function is either totally unknown or largely unclear. (No reflection on the emu guys.) James' recently modified binaries I did not mention; too much chance of overloading him with data, I thought. Anyway, enjoy. And keep an eye on the page; it may or may not change again, as its author looks at the Doraemon and Dr. Slump binaries I just sent to him in e-mail, this afternoon. -- Ward Shrake -- 1215 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Thu Dec 19, 2002 11:11am Subject: RE: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions mrhaboobi Find it interesting that his facts are still infact inforrect, honimex = hanimex ,im sure this is just a typo. Hardwired controllers? well not for tunix, open the machine and both controllers are unpluggable, is it not the same for arcadia? -----Original Message----- From: Ward Shrake [mailto:ward.shrake@worldnet.att.net] Sent: Thursday, 19 December 2002 12:16 p.m. To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions Following up on the "Emersuck" web page, which Russ originally posted the URL to:http://grblitz.overclocked.org/emerson.htmThe page's author just revised it. I've been talking to him in e-mail, and while I take zero credit for his recent changes, I have made him aware now of some information he did not previously have. (He did his update on his own, before seeing any of my info.) As you'll see, he has now gone from slamming the whole library as awful, to just most of it. He has found some "new" (to him) games that he likes, and he said so publicly. To those of you upset at his previous assessment of the machine and its software library, this will be a welcome change, I'd imagine? James, are you listening? :-) I've also made him aware that the emulation of this console is NOT perfect, and that if he is judging the real things ultimately quality by the emulators, he is close but not precisely correct. I said that if one were to be picky with his definitions, the emu is really not a full-on emulation at all; it is closer to a "port" since so much of the two main chips' internal organization and function is either totally unknown or largely unclear. (No reflection on the emu guys.) James' recently modified binaries I did not mention; too much chance of overloading him with data, I thought. Anyway, enjoy. And keep an eye on the page; it may or may not change again, as its author looks at the Doraemon and Dr. Slump binaries I just sent to him in e-mail, this afternoon. -- Ward Shrake 1216 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Thu Dec 19, 2002 2:13pm Subject: Re: Fun link; Bandai games instructions amigansoftware > As you'll see, he has now gone from slamming the whole library as > awful, to just most of it. He has found some "new" (to him) games > that he likes, and he said so publicly. > > To those of you upset at his previous assessment of the machine and > its software library, this will be a welcome change, I'd imagine? > James, are you listening? :-) I wasn't upset, just irritated :-) But what is this about a Galaxians prototype? I immediately thought of Space Attack, but he has that listed separately. If he has a Galaxians prototype binary, we should grab a copy of it from him, methinks...!? Also it seems that he is claiming Hobo to be a clone/variant of an Atari game called "Freeway". That's interesting; I had always heard of Hobo as being one of the few original games for the Arcadia family. > I've also made him aware that the emulation of this console is NOT > perfect, and that if he is judging the real things ultimately quality > by the emulators, he is close but not precisely correct. I said that > if one were to be picky with his definitions, the emu is really not a > full-on emulation at all; it is closer to a "port" since so much of > the two main chips' internal organization and function is either > totally unknown or largely unclear. (No reflection on the emu guys.) > > James' recently modified binaries I did not mention; too much chance > of overloading him with data, I thought. I suspect it would have changed his opinion of Jump Bug, at least. His main gripe with it is the colour scheme, which was pathced. > Anyway, enjoy. And keep an eye on the page; it may or may not change > again, as its author looks at the Doraemon and Dr. Slump binaries I > just sent to him in e-mail, this afternoon. Yes but he's not likely to like them in their unpatched form, neither is properly playable. I mean, *I* don't even like most of them in their unpatched (ie. unplayable in some cases) form. It's not really fair on him to only show him the unpatched versions and then expect him to like the games when they don't run properly...what do others think about this? 1217 From: "Bill " Date: Fri Dec 20, 2002 11:36pm Subject: Re: Circus (interim version) billlagr --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware " wrote: > I've uploaded an interim patch of Circus. The following have been > fixed: > > a) controller problems - should work fine on digital controller now > b) colours - not sure what the correct colours should be, I suspect > they are still wrong, could someone please advise? > c) freeze at startup > d) some collision detections > > The following have not been fixed: > > a) seesaw-acrobat collision seems very finicky, ie. most of the time > you die even when hitting the seesaw. Can someone please advise if > this is the correct behaviour? > b) OPTION and DIFFICULTY buttons seem to interfere with each other > c) colours are probably still wrong, as noted above > > Also comments on the controller sensitivity would be welcomed, ie. is > it not sensitive enough, too sensitive, etc. I have posted a screen grab of the original cart in action, hopefully it will give you an idea of the correct colours. Its pretty crappy quality, but then so is the output from the console :) Its in the file section, under misc. images, Circus.gif Bill 1218 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Dec 21, 2002 4:20am Subject: Re: Re: Finalized patches grumpfix amigansoftware wrote: >I also >don't think the interim version of Circus will see much circulation >as the collision detection was bad; it was released mainly to >ascertain what the correct colours should be. (Which is something I >still don't know by the way; the finalized version (ie. V1.0) has a >white background but this is for clarity only, it is not necessarily >correct.) > > On the real console (I guess you know which machine I used) black background; yellow clowns; magenta, white, cyan balloons Once it switched during gameplay to white background, blue clowns, ... (I haven't been able to reproduce this) Sometimes it powers on with: the "1 player game 1" selection text no balloons, no clowns, no pads not playable (important for emulation authenticity?) clown and balloon: clown flies through all 3 levels of balloons, blowing up several balloons. (contrary to normal clowns/circus behaviour) I guess the poweron behaviour of 2112 and 2114 ram might be different and might get important (2114 in VC20 basically random). Is somebody able to test 2112 poweron behaviour easily? Peter 1219 From: "mc71de " Date: Sat Dec 21, 2002 0:36pm Subject: Re: Finalized patches mc71de Hi Peter, hello eyeryone. --- Peter Trauner wrote: > On the real console (I guess you know which machine I used) > black background; yellow clowns; magenta, white, cyan balloons Comparing to MESS (v56.somethig), it sounds like MESS uses the complementary colors? Thought: do we run into NTSC/PAL issues here? Sorry if i got lost in all those different games at the moment; see my next posting for details. > Once it switched during gameplay to white background, > blue clowns, ... > (I haven't been able to reproduce this) Could be an issue of the color encoder of your console. Something like console and TV getting slightly out of (color) sync. > Sometimes it powers on with: > the "1 player game 1" selection text > no balloons, no clowns, no pads > not playable Will hitting RESET get you going? If so: that ##### cheap design has *no* power on reset at all, and an Interton will *never* start-up clean. #################################################### Ward? Still there? This is a special one for you... but i still don't know if it's entertaining (what i hope) or just sad. To compensate for this, and to not look like tech idiots, Interton told their users to 'LOAD' the game into the console (technically speaking, the LOAD button is just a RESET button) and some 'intelligent' WWW pages come to the (seemingly logical, but wrong) conclusion that there are some 4k RAM inside an Interton. Add that to the mystical 28k once claimed by Emerson, and get a nice 32K of non-existant RAM in total... So far, so bad. But once, a few months ago, i read a kind-of follow up to that idea of 'loading' games from cart into the actual console. It read something like this (and i refuse to remember the URL; i'm glad my computer had not quit service about that nonsense): "The [Arcadia-like machine] had 28K of RAM. [errr... but now he starts to think:] It is really a pity that these [28K] were never fully used, since the cartridges are 8K in size at most." Oh well, i see. So the program size determines the memory usage? If there were such a thing as a 28K of RAM, i could easily come up with a dozen ideas how to use them without even having a single byte of code in there... But maybe i should forget everything i learned about computer programming the last 20 years, and start from scratch? #################################################### > (important for emulation authenticity?) Well... who ever puts his hands on the 2637 emulation, please keep it crisp, clear colors, not the mess some machines produce. > I guess the poweron behaviour of 2112 and 2114 ram > might be different and might get important > (2114 in VC20 basically random). Calls for an interim patch for MESS, initializing RAM to some values/patterns at start-up. But as said before, i suspect the crude RESET non-logic or the crappy color encoder to be the reason. > Is somebody able to test 2112 poweron behaviour easily? An UVI monitor would come in handy here... Maybe i should throw a coin whether i will learn C (to mess around with MESS) or 2650 assembler (to port the 'Elektor monitor')? But no- complete lack of 2112 here, thus no test possible. -mc 1220 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Dec 21, 2002 6:33pm Subject: Re: Re: Finalized patches grumpfix mc71de wrote: >>Once it switched during gameplay to white background, >>blue clowns, ... >>(I haven't been able to reproduce this) >> >> > >Could be an issue of the color encoder of your console. Something >like console and TV getting slightly out of (color) sync. > I don't know (I mentioned it only because MESS and patched clowns uses these color). >>Sometimes it powers on with: >>the "1 player game 1" selection text >>no balloons, no clowns, no pads >>not playable >> >> > >Will hitting RESET get you going? If so: that ##### cheap design has >*no* power on reset at all, and an Interton will *never* start-up >clean. > > Clarify: Depends on poweron if reset lets you normally play or brings up the text. Peter 1221 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Sun Dec 22, 2002 10:43am Subject: Re: Circus (interim version) amigansoftware > I have posted a screen grab of the original cart in action, hopefully > it will give you an idea of the correct colours. Its pretty crappy > quality, but then so is the output from the console :) > Its in the file section, under misc. images, Circus.gif Thanks very much, with this image and also the textual notes I should be able to make a V2 version of Circus. I am also planning on doing a V2 version of Hobo. Probably within the next month. 1222 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Mon Dec 23, 2002 0:41am Subject: Re: Circus (interim version) amigansoftware > Thanks very much, with this image and also the textual notes I should > be able to make a V2 version of Circus. Here it is, the 100% perfect version 2 of Circus. All known bugs and problems have been fixed. And if I may say so it is (now) a very good game. Enjoy. 1223 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:31am Subject: Beware of Other People's Rules commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > > --- Peter Trauner wrote: (snip) > > Once it switched during gameplay to white background, > > blue clowns, ... > > (I haven't been able to reproduce this) Which is what it always is, on my multicart ROM image running on a Leisure-Vision... or at least, that's what I recall, off-hand? I don't remember ever seeing black and yellow main colors on that game? > Ward? Still there? This is a special one for you... For awhile, off and on. But definitely winding down on gaming as a group thing, and heading towards just playing what I already have, by myself at home. And even then, only when other priorities allow it. As an aside: here's another recent big-deal-to-me insight that I have just now had into my personal make-up: most group hobbies end up adopting or inventing many rules over time. And then expecting its members to know them, and conform to those rules. Some hobbies are more fun, consequently, when you're not a member of the main group. Comparing this and other hobbies that I had great interest in, and then lost that interest without being sure why, I have found that these subtle, built-in-over-time rules are what bother me the most. Seeing that clearly now, I see I have also been guilty of trying to introduce a few here, which makes me half a hypocrit or something, or at least untrue to my original goals to Just Have Fun individually. Hobbyists beware: if you do change roles from a group "member" to a group "leader" -- however tenous that connection may be -- then you are also changing your experience of the hobby. You may find yourself enforcing rules, directing or moderating other's efforts, and doing more "work" than "play" overall. Play, indeed, may end up dying off. Beware of the real changes involved, and weigh any "promotion" with great care! (I strongly believe in the "Peter Principle's" truth!) Why? Because any group made by human beings ends up wanting to self- perpetuate over time. You end up being the care-taker of the health and continued existence of "The Group"... which may not have a single thing in common with the idea of "having fun" as an individual. Does this idea make the group "bad"? No, but if you want to play and you are spending time as an organizer instead, you're in for trouble. [MC quoting a web site, but saying he can't remember which one.] > > "The [Arcadia-like machine] had 28K of RAM. [errr... but now he > starts to think:] It is really a pity that these [28K] were never > fully used, since the cartridges are 8K in size at most." See the FAQ on my web site; that (near) quote was from a 1980's game magazine (Electronic Games, as I recall). The full article is online, verbatim, with my own added commentary beside it. > But maybe i should forget everything i learned about computer > programming the last 20 years, and start from scratch? No, but before getting visibly upset about something related to a mere hobby you might want to remember more accurately where you read something. And exactly what was said, with every nuance still intact. It might help you to put things into a larger, more helpful context, which might in turn prevent frustration and high blood pressure. Yes, I mean that well. It is not intended as "setting rules" or being critical towards anyone here. It's just my two cents worth. I guess that for myself, when I start getting upset about hobby stuff, I should ask myself if I have accidentally accepted some "norm" of a subculture, and am having difficulties with the idea that "you can't do that, if you're a part of this group". My current idea is that a hobby that I originally set out to enjoy by myself, does not require outside approval from others, nor do I need to learn a bunch of Other People's Rules, and adhere to them strictly. That sounds a lot like a religeon or a political system, and all I really set out to obtain was a little bit of harmless fun. -- Ward Shrake -- 1224 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Tue Dec 24, 2002 10:54am Subject: Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Greg Cook" wrote: > Find it interesting that his facts are still infact inforrect, > > honimex = hanimex ,im sure this is just a typo. > > Hardwired controllers? well not for tunix, open the machine and both > controllers are unpluggable, is it not the same for arcadia? I don't mean to knock Greg's post... it just serves as a useful example of something that just dawned on me, earlier today. OK, so this person (Jess Ragan) said some things which incensed some members of our group. He made himself look like a fool, from our own point of view. He knocked our beliefs, and we in turn knock him back. But what does this all mean, if anything, outside of this hobby? Can we, in short, break out of our own limited ways of thinking, and see this in a larger perspective, perhaps to our own ultimate advantage? Would anyone besides us even UNDERSTAND the arguments he and we are making, about the quality or lack of quality of an arguably still- born commercial product that barely showed up on the radar, two decades ago? Or would they just think we're both nuts for caring, in either direction? Might they not see both sides as caring too much? Might this whole issue strike the un-educated public like an argument over which types of flint rocks make the best arrowheads? Or which tests intended to expose a suspected Witch are the most reliable? OK, so this person said some things we didn't like. So he obviously doesn't know the rules or the beliefs of our micro-niche within a larger niche hobby. We could easily argue that, since Ward Shrake wrote up the group's beliefs and had it published last August, in an industry-standard publication that many presumably read, that he had "no excuse" to be as ignorant of "the truth" as he obviously is. What does this really mean to any of us? Will it affect our personal lives in any significant way? What if we could "educate" him, to the point where he would accept our group's beliefs, and "preach" them to others? (I note that no one yet offered to do the most direct thing; just photocopy the DPCG#7 info for him, and mail it out. In fact, I am seeing more of the Wheel Re-invention stuff that frustrates me; people are asking how we should essentially start from scratch on it.) Personally, and this is just "my two cents" as a human being... who cares? So he disagrees with us. So he originally sad rude or mean things about some admittedly-failed and unpopular commercial product that we, to varying degrees and for various reasons, happen to like? Beware of institutionalizing a hobby, and making it too conformist. Hobbies are for fun, not to serve as intolerant psuedo-religeons. When we start thinking less of other humans, simply because they don't like our hobbies, well, we need help just as much as they do. I'm offering this advice as much to myself as any of you, so don't be too offended at what I've said. Please; tolerance of differences is to be commended, not stamped out with great fervor. Just ignore it, and go about your life; that seems like the best advice I can offer. If you still figure I'm full of it, or out of it, on this: you guys are to varying degrees not much better off than Jess is. I posted an exhaustive analysis of the paddle controllers, weeks ago. It included clear comments that indicated that by taking the hand controllers apart, that you could unplug an internal connector and replace either hand controller WITHOUT having to open the main console's case. Greg apparently forgot that, and yet criticizes Jess' ignorance. I keep seeing examples of Wheel Re-invention here, almost daily... but I've learned to be more tolerant, myself, and to just ignore it. -- Ward Shrake -- 1225 From: "mc71de " Date: Tue Dec 24, 2002 4:11pm Subject: Re: Beware of Other People's Rules mc71de Hi Ward, and all. First of all, i did not forget what has gone so terribly wrong, lately. And i did post an excessive message on that subject, but yahoo decided to discard my text. So i came to the conclusion that i will re-write it and send it directly to Ward. --- "Ward Shrake " wrote: > Seeing that clearly now, I see I have also been guilty > of trying to introduce a few here, which makes me half > a hypocrit or something, or at least untrue to my original > goals to Just Have Fun individually. Ward... please! You didn't make those rules to 'rule' us, but to avoid all those pits and traps UA prepared carefully for us, almost exactly 20 years ago. > Hobbyists beware: if you do change roles from a group > "member" to a group "leader" Plus, i personally did never see you as a 'leader', but instead as someone who knows what he says. And who has a type of brain between his ears that has proven to be more reliable than mine ;-) > Play, indeed, may end up dying off. (just to tease James) You are not supposed to play arcadia games. They are boring anyway! (honest mode on) Well, a quick game of Brain Quiz should fit anywhere, time-wise. [Please keep your fingers crossed that i do not also fry my Brain Quiz, like i most probably fried another game recently. If and when i should be right, we will have a (very little) christmas surprise. If i am wrong, i am really clueless why my copy of Brain Quiz behaves differently than the rom file that is floating around...] > [MC quoting a web site, but saying he can't remember which one.] Well... today Google *was* my friend, and here it is: http://www.emuunlim.com/doteaters/play3sta5.htm saying: | It sports a pretty amazing 28K of RAM [...] | 35 carts are eventually produced for the system, | in two different size formats, with names like | Tanks A Lot, Baseball, Crazy Gobbler and Space Attack. (this is the author's add-on to the EG article...) | Unfortunately, it appears that most of that 28K | of available system memory goes to waste: no game | uses more than 8K of it. So indeed this text is heavily based on the EG article of November, 1982. But it is also extended on the later carts... kind-of strange. Usually, i don't care much of that type of web sites; i have enough trouble to get organized information, so i don't bother organizing non-information. And that's why i originally didn't bookmark that page. > See the FAQ on my web site; Sadly, that is exactly what i did, just a few minutes before i made that posting... and i read it carefully, back and forth. Blame it on my limited visual capabilities, or maybe i should have read the EG article 'in full', without your comments, or maybe i just read your comments more carefully than Mr. Cohen's valuable words. But i really lost the point that EG's author also wanted to 'load' the carts' content into that mystical RAM... *sigh* so much for 'entertaining the Ward' *sigh* > that (near) quote was from a 1980's game > magazine (Electronic Games, as I recall). Exactly. If you compare, my version is way-off from what i wanted to quote and much closer to the EG article... > The full article is online, > verbatim, with my own added commentary beside it. ...at http://home.att.net/~wards.game.history/arcadia/texts/2001- faq.htm#egnov82 to be precise :-) (now that noone can say (s)he cannot find it...) > > But maybe i should forget everything i learned about computer > > programming the last 20 years, and start from scratch? > > > No, but before getting visibly upset about something > related to a mere hobby you might want to remember > more accurately where you read something. (Not talking about all that s**t that happened here, a week ago) I was not upset, but a bit amused about that conclusion. Maybe you want to imagine my 'forget everything...' comment spoken by your favorite (or even better, least-favorite) stand-up commedian. And i still find the idea of 'loading the cart into the machine' funny. (To be honest, Atari's Lynx does exactly that. But here, the RAM is way *smaller* than the average ROM cart...) Leave alone the idea of e.g. a chess algorhythm that might fit in 2 or 4 K ROM, but depend on *lots* of RAM. So, if there *were* 28K, they could have been utilized, even with 8K carts, and thus the statement on 'DotEaters' about the 'waste of RAM' does not make any sense in itself. Usually, i laugh about such strange ideas, and don't care any further. I just remembered it when i wrote about that (suspected) RESET problem and Interton's 'loading-the-game' metaphora. > And exactly what was said, with every nuance > still intact. It might help you to put things > into a larger, more helpful context, which might > in turn prevent frustration and high blood pressure. As i said, more on that truckload of mis-understanding and mis- interpretation that happened here, lately, will follow 'behind the scenes'. > My current idea is that a hobby that I originally > set out to enjoy by myself, does not require outside > approval from others, nor do I need to learn a bunch > of Other People's Rules, and adhere to them strictly. > That sounds a lot like a religeon or a political system, > and all I really set out to obtain was a little bit > of harmless fun. > > -- Ward Shrake -- Seems you have adopted the 'Cologne Way of Life' :-) We 'Colognians' have that much of dislike for fixed rules that even the 'Dictionary of the Colognian Language' is explicitly labled as 'suggestion'- honestly! The only annoying thing with that 'Arcadia-and-friends' hobby is (for me personally, at the moment) that the whole 'consoles, carts, groups, look-alikes, and-what-not' has generated too much information to fit into my brain all at once. [If only we had a thing that i call for myself the 'UA universal cart key'; i have not found any references to the small numbers printed on (most? many? all?) game manuals; if that subject *was* discussed before then could someone please point me there?] ### end of this message; really important stuff coming ### I wish everyone on the list a merry christmas and a peaceful, successful and happy new year. And no-one please allow the fun to get lost! -mc 1226 From: "mc71de " Date: Tue Dec 24, 2002 5:36pm Subject: Re: Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. mc71de Hi Ward, Greg, James, and everyone i forgot... --- "Ward Shrake " wrote: > --- "Greg Cook" wrote: > > honimex = hanimex ,im sure this is just a typo. No, IMHO he just made fun of the name, like 'Emersuck'... > > Hardwired controllers? well not for tunix, > > open the machine and both > > controllers are unpluggable, But exactly that is the definition of 'hard-wired'... In that sense, even all Channel-F and Odyssey2 controllers are 'unpluggable'... > is it not the same for arcadia? Read The Faq Many times... btw: an internal connector is not that uncommon, usually to save money in comparison to an external variant. But here, [whoever] used a full-featured connector, and it makes *no* sense to hide it inside. > OK, so this person (Jess Ragan) said some things > which incensed some members of our group. Well, others had a good laugh about it. It is clearly meant as a satirical 'report', and i like(d) it. But now, Jess starts to like Arcadia games, and his page will never be what it was. *sniff* After all, what was so bad aout it? It was just telling the truth. As Russ already said, the Emerson Arcadia never made commercial sense. In the european video game market of 1980/1981, it had a fair chance (ruined by low-quality games). But not in the US of late 1982, with the video game crash already on the doorstep. > Would anyone besides us even UNDERSTAND the arguments > he and we are making, about the quality or lack of > quality of an arguably still- born commercial product > that barely showed up on the radar, two decades ago? Please define 'us'... even i have a hard time to understand why James was so upset about the Emersuck page. BTW, did i already tell in public why i am here? Fond memories of my youth? No. It was a title page of a book i bought in '85, and that doesn't make sense, as it is. And due to the fact that the Arcadia (- compatible consoles group's members) contain(s) the same, rare, strange microprocessor and a next-step-in-evolution graphics chip made me curious for these machines, too. I like some ideas that only much later showed up on other (computer) games, and every now and then i enjoy a Brain Quiz. But speaking of 'Battle', i would not call the tank commanders' 'walking' animation highly realistic. Maybe it's the addiction to the minimalism? > Might this whole issue strike the un-educated public > like an argument over which types of flint rocks make > the best arrowheads? You haven't read the discussion about the height of signal posts at the german railway... In fact, it *does* matter, for some historical reason. But in comparison, argueing about some games' quality is fairly normal ;-) But maybe it's like the ancient Commodore-vs-Sinclair or Atari-vs- Amiga 'conflict'? I don't know, i don't participate, i don't care... > Or which tests intended to expose a suspected > Witch are the most reliable? Bad example ;-) Reliable Witch tests always kill the innocent, and the guilty is executed afterwards. So why bother, when the suspect gets killed anyway? Better forbid Witch tests... > OK, so this person said some things we didn't like. *whine* but i liked it. */whine* > I note that no one yet offered to do the most direct > thing; just photocopy the DPCG#7 info for him, and mail > it out. Simply put: It is not allowed to photocopy so many pages, is it? > people are asking how we should essentially start > from scratch on it.) Uh? I was -ironically- talking about my very own knowledge of computer programming, not declaring your (Ward's) work useless! Heck, i even offered to host your pages, if it should have been necessary; i know my offer would have been a second-class-solution, but 'starting from scratch' would be the silliest thing i could think of (btw, you had to do something like that, when you started.) > > Personally, and this is just "my two cents" as a > human being... who cares? So he disagrees with us. > So he originally sad rude or mean things about some > admittedly-failed and unpopular commercial product > that we, to varying degrees and for various reasons, > happen to like? Don't we like it *because* it is so limited? UA-limited, so to say? > Hobbies are for fun, not to serve as intolerant > psuedo-religeons. When we start thinking less of > other humans, simply because they don't like our > hobbies, well, we need help just as much as they do. If someone some day should ask me, 'what did that Ward guy tell you, when he left your crowd?', i think this is what i would quote. Plus, it should be written in stone, at least five inch high (the single letter, not the whole text...) and put for display everywhere around the $whatever_hobby scene. You mentioned recently that people tend to 'believe' in 'celebrities' just because they are famous of a sort. Not for me; it's just that this is also my very own opinion. [...] > I posted an exhaustive analysis of the paddle controllers, > weeks ago. It included clear comments that indicated that > by taking the hand controllers apart, that you could unplug > an internal connector and replace either hand controller > WITHOUT having to open the main console's case. Point for Mr. Shrake! But still, you need a tool, and you have to open the console to replace the cord... I don't even blame $company for the 'hard-wired' controllers (which were not *that* uncommon, back then). But the way they are (full-featured shell, relatively expensive connector...) does not make *any* sense. But looking for sense in anything UA-ish seems to be pointless, anyway :-( > I keep seeing examples of Wheel Re-invention here, almost daily... We are working hard on inventing the Rectangular Wheel, which improves the Current Art in a way that it will not roll off that easily when left unattended. Results will be posted to the Files Area, as usual, or be sent to your address... (maybe i should have checked with USPTO before? I'm quite sure there is no such patent.) > but I've learned to be more tolerant, myself, > and to just ignore it. > > -- Ward Shrake -- Well, as long as no harm is done, patience is a good thing, and tolerance. And if things get worse, someone will bring 'us' back on the right track. But maybe 'we' are currently in a state where all those tons of valuable information have to settle, or chewn over and over again, until they become 'common knowledge'? -mc 1227 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:30pm Subject: Re: Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone. commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: (snip) > > Hobbies are for fun, not to serve as intolerant > > psuedo-religeons. When we start thinking less of > > other humans, simply because they don't like our > > hobbies, well, we need help just as much as they do. > > > If someone some day should ask me, > 'what did that Ward guy tell you, > when he left your crowd?', i think > this is what i would quote. Plus, > it should be written in stone, at > least five inch high (the single > letter, not the whole text...) > and put for display everywhere > around the $whatever_hobby scene. Heehee; yeah, looking back at it, I like that quote, too. Feel free to quote that one if/when anyone remembers me in later days. ;-) As to some of that other stuff I've said over the last nine years or so... well, who's listening to me? I'm not. Just some guy, flapping his gums. (Or in this case, twitching his typing fingers.) :-) But seriously; keep in mind that I'm thinking out loud these last few weeks, and saying things as much for myself as others. Trying to figure out just what I'm thinking and feeling and so on, not only about this one hobby niche, but life in general, hobbies as a whole, and so on. I suppose that's natural, at the nearly-40-years old point. In my mind, I'm comparing this hobby to others, and searching for patterns. I'm finding some, and think they'll be useful to me. The "audiophile" hobby had a writer I liked a lot. I was sorry to see Corey Greenberg leave Stereophile magazine, but I loved reading his more irreverant articles, especially towards the end. It was nice to see him going down in bright, colorful flames, as he figured out the hidden rules of the hobby were not serving his needs, individually, but were more likely serving the needs of the magazine's advertisers. (If you're totally unhappy all of the time, you're a potential customer for any product that offers its customers happiness. Which every commercially-produced product does, to one extent or another.) Anyone writing for a "buy this $100,000 stereo system" magazine, who had the brass to tell readers to make sure to keep an 8-track stereo player handy (preferably found barely working, from a thrift store) so that they won't become overly obsessed with minutia and forget that at its core, music playback is supposed to be FUN, is a man whose writings I can really sit back and enjoy. He was a breath of fresh air, in a hobby that needed it, at times. Corey went so far as to tell the overly obsessive / compulsive audiophiles reading his articles to dump their binaural headphone playback systems and their ultra-specialized recordings of things like babbling brooks. And to get out of the house for a change, and go visit a REAL babbling brook, instead of accepting any recorded reproduction. I also liked it when he quoted "Dr. Suess" at times, in a magazine that catered to a demographic of ultra-rich, ultra-educated types. But I think my favorite irreverancy, towards the end of his writing days there, was when he listed a modified "12 step program" that some of the more hopelessly obsessed readers could follow, to put some control and sanity back into their own lives. Yes, Corey was great reading, while he lasted, but ultimately the stuffy types won out. Next hobby I'm re-thinking about, in my life's current context: I started to get back into the Scale Modeling hobby around 1999, then dropped out really quickly (for me; a year or two). I'm just now able to see why; a hobby that was fun as an individual got "ruined" when it became some attempt to please others, and to follow the obscure and often illogical rules that miniature society has built for itself. The ultimate expression of that being contests; what else is that, except to prove to yourself and your modeling buddies what a complete conformist you are? In the midst of what is supposed to be a creative hobby, it makes little sense to me. I couldn't put my finger down on why I quit enjoying that hobby and wandered off... till now. So, basically I have a tool that I can use now, to figure out where I am about to make a mistake, and to accidentally "work" at playing. (I will have to re-read my copy of "The Peter Principle" again, too.) > We are working hard on inventing the Rectangular Wheel, which > improves the Current Art in a way that it will not roll off that > easily when left unattended. Results will be posted to the Files > Area, as usual, or be sent to your address... (maybe i should have > checked with USPTO before? I'm quite sure there is no such patent.) Now THAT was funny! Heehee. I got a big kick out of that one! :-) -- Ward Shrake -- 1228 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Tue Dec 24, 2002 7:39pm Subject: Recent ROM dumps commie_fan Anyone out there have any follow-up reports on what's going on, with the two ROM dumping attempts that were going to happen? (I'm pretty sure PeT was working on Stefan's carts, not sure on the others?) Are those still going on, or were those plans changed somehow? No rush; I just want to know so I can plan ahead for any new multicart upgrades. For now, I'm not going to do anything, until I see what happens about those new dumps. -- Ward Shrake -- 1229 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Wed Dec 25, 2002 11:36am Subject: Re: Beware of Other People's Rules amigansoftware > (just to tease James) > You are not supposed to play arcadia games. They are boring anyway! Oh, I see :-) Should I perhaps shelve my idea to create an Arcadia high scores database then, if I'm the only one playing these!? There's already a page at http://members.aol.com/pbjurman/arcadia2001.html with something similar anyway. IIRC my high score for Alien Invaders is higher than his :-) heheheh... > And i still find the idea of 'loading the cart into the machine' > funny. (To be honest, Atari's Lynx does exactly that. But here, the > RAM is way *smaller* than the average ROM cart...) Leave alone the > idea of e.g. a chess algorhythm that might fit in 2 or 4 K ROM, but > depend on *lots* of RAM. I think there has been some confusion about the difference between ROM and RAM. Yes, usable RAM is extremely limited on the Arcadia. Fortunately it doesn't need any RAM for code or constant data, as the games run directly from ROM (as opposed to 'shadowing' (ie. copying) it into RAM, which is apparently what the Lynx does?). RAM is only needed for variables. ROM carts up to 28K are possible but have never been made. Interesting what Ward said about the Circus colours, but I would still lean towards the opinion that the black background/yellow clowns scheme is probably the correct one. (It's closer to the colours of the coin-op.) Anyone have a copy of the rare "Galaxians prototype" game that Jess seems to have? Presumably it was dumped by one of us at some point in time? But no-one around here seems to have it. I did email him about it but haven't received a reply. 1230 From: "Ward Shrake " Date: Wed Dec 25, 2002 1:23pm Subject: Ward's last message post here commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware " wrote: (snip) > Anyone have a copy of the rare > "Galaxians prototype" game that > Jess seems to have? Presumably > it was dumped by one of us at > some point in time? But no-one > around here seems to have it. > I did email him about it but > haven't received a reply. I dumped most of the carts myself. Only two other people have ever dumped any carts, and neither did so on an ongoing basis. I'm "it" as far as ever searching out this console's ROMs go, and I say it does not exist. Odds are, Jess' page is incorrect... as it is elsewhere. This may very well be my last post. My winding-down efforts are going well, and I plan to "retire" right on schedule, before year's end. From now on if any of you have anything semi-urgent to tell me about, please do so by way of private e-mail. I won't be hear, reading posts. Happy Holidays to you all, and good luck finding the answers you seek. -- Ward Shrake -- 1231 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Wed Dec 25, 2002 7:53pm Subject: Season's greetings dieterk_ccc I wish you guys a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, with health, luck and fun! Our hobby has turned into a "big business", with professional websites, message boards, dealers and stuff. I for my own often lost the FUN OF PLAYING GAMES in the past because of that "business". I need to find back to the fun of playing games, and I think I am not alone. Noone should take this hobby too serious, because it is a hobby. 1232 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Thu Dec 26, 2002 3:58pm Subject: Re: Season's greetings amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "dieterk_ccc " wrote: > I wish you guys a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, with health, > luck and fun! > > Our hobby has turned into a "big business", with professional > websites, message boards, dealers and stuff. Has it!? Could you please give some links? I am very interested in obtaining Super Bug so that I can arrange for it to be dumped. 1233 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Dec 26, 2002 4:19pm Subject: Re: Season's greetings mc71de --- "amigansoftware " wrote: >> Our hobby has turned into a "big business", with >> professional websites, message boards, dealers and stuff. > > Has it!? Could you please give some links? I am very > interested in obtaining Super Bug so that I can arrange > for it to be dumped. The best starting point imho would be http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles for anything Arcadia... but honestly: try to find an australian video games shop (seems Super Bug was seen some time ago there!?) In fact, there are several shops, in the U.S. and europe. Point is, they rarely stock one of the 2637-based consoles: It just wasn't important enough. Back to Arcadia Land: It was quite good when it came into being, back in 1980/81. But when it saw it's world-wide introduction, esp. in the U.S., it was simply too late. The world had moved on, and thus the Arcadia is commonly remembered as cheap, second-class, not- worth-to-bother-with thingy. And if it was not for it's prequel, the 2636-based Interton, and a quirky book i bought in 1985, i wouldn't care either, most likely. -mc 1234 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Thu Dec 26, 2002 9:16pm Subject: Re: Season's greetings dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware " wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "dieterk_ccc > " wrote: > > I wish you guys a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year, with > health, > > luck and fun! > > > > Our hobby has turned into a "big business", with professional > > websites, message boards, dealers and stuff. > > Has it!? Could you please give some links? I am very interested in > obtaining Super Bug so that I can arrange for it to be dumped. Yes it has. And I don't mean especially the Arcadia system, but I mean the retro gaming hobby in general. Look at the AtariAge and DigitalPress message boards and see the flaming, bashing and intriguing ... but oh well, I just need to look away ... 1235 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri Dec 27, 2002 5:44pm Subject: MESS Arcadia Fix (Brainquiz Hangman Lenknen) grumpfix Hello, for those interested in MESS' Arcadia driver, here is a simple fix for the Brainquiz cartridge displaying Lenknen instead of hangman (might fix several other dubious errors) cause: background collision buffer array overrun in a rare case --- mess/vidhrdw/arcadia.cpp~ Thu Nov 21 18:05:08 2002 +++ mess/vidhrdw/arcadia.cpp Thu Dec 26 16:44:40 2002 @@ -693,6 +693,7 @@ b=ch[k]; arcadia_video.bg[y][x>>3]|=b>>(x&7); arcadia_video.bg[y][(x>>3)+1]|=b<<(8-(x&7)); + if (y+1height) { arcadia_video.bg[y+1][x>>3]|=b>>(x&7); arcadia_video.bg[y+1][(x>>3)+1]|=b<<(8-(x&7)); drawgfx(bitmap, Machine->gfx[0], b,0, @@ -701,6 +702,7 @@ drawgfx(bitmap, Machine->gfx[0], b,0, 0,0,x,y+1, 0, TRANSPARENCY_NONE,0); + } } } else { for (k=0; (k<8)&&(yheight); k++, y++) { 1236 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Sat Dec 28, 2002 1:14am Subject: Re: MESS Arcadia Fix (Brainquiz Hangman Lenknen) amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Hello, > > for those interested in MESS' Arcadia driver, > > here is a simple fix for the > Brainquiz cartridge displaying Lenknen instead of hangman > (might fix several other dubious errors) > > cause: > background collision buffer array overrun in a rare case > > --- mess/vidhrdw/arcadia.cpp~ Thu Nov 21 18:05:08 2002 > +++ mess/vidhrdw/arcadia.cpp Thu Dec 26 16:44:40 2002 > @@ -693,6 +693,7 @@ > b=ch[k]; > arcadia_video.bg[y][x>>3]|=b>>(x&7); > arcadia_video.bg[y][(x>>3)+1]|=b<<(8-(x&7)); > + if (y+1height) { > arcadia_video.bg[y+1][x>>3]|=b>>(x&7); > arcadia_video.bg[y+1][(x>>3)+1]|=b<<(8-(x&7)); > drawgfx(bitmap, Machine->gfx[0], b,0, > @@ -701,6 +702,7 @@ > drawgfx(bitmap, Machine->gfx[0], b,0, > 0,0,x,y+1, > 0, TRANSPARENCY_NONE,0); > + } > } > } else { > for (k=0; (k<8)&&(yheight); k++, y++) { Thanks, it's good to see that the emulation continues to improve...I for one appreciate the hard work you have put into it. Do you plan to submit this fix to the MESS repository so that it could be included in the next MESS release? 1237 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:54am Subject: Re: Re: MESS Arcadia Fix (Brainquiz Hangman Lenknen) grumpfix amigansoftware wrote: >Do you plan to submit this fix to the MESS repository so that it >could be included in the next MESS release? > > Sorry no. I have not been satisfied with the cooperation/style/... of some members. And I am not interested in the inflexible "extreme power user" MESS version. Peter 1238 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Dec 28, 2002 4:50am Subject: MESS Arcadia audio improvement grumpfix Hello, another fix which should be easy to apply in every mess arcadia driver version. removed 18fd bit 7 from audio frequency calculation (gave too deep sound in games using the 2nd tilemap mode like star chess) --- mess/sndhrdw/arcadia.cpp~ Mon Mar 4 14:10:02 2002 +++ mess/sndhrdw/arcadia.cpp Fri Dec 27 11:48:13 2002 @@ -34,7 +34,7 @@ arcadia_sound.pos=0; arcadia_sound.level=TRUE; // frequency 7874/(data+1) - arcadia_sound.size=options.samplerate*(data+1)/7874; + arcadia_sound.size=options.samplerate*((data&0x7f)+1)/7874; break; } } 1239 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:56am Subject: "Inversed" colored games issue/Another Arcadia-VCG difference grumpfix Hello, Finally I localized my "favourite" arcadia emulation issue. The "inversed" colors in nibblemen, super gobbler, grand slam tennis, golf, circus, ... The palladium vcg and the arcadia seem to be different in their hardware! On the vcg the s2650 flag out line is wired to the first group of video rgb line xors. On the arcadia it is not (service manual circuit diagram)! Behaviour on the vcg: nibblemen, super gobbler, circus black background golf yellow background grand slam tennis green background Expected behaviour on the arcadia: nibblemen, super gobbler, circus white background golf blue background grand slam tennis magenta background Can somebody proove this please? The behaviour across console families is extreme interesting! I tested the changes on a heavily modified mess37b15 version, so it is not possible to do a diff file quickly, even for this version. (short: get s2650 flag output; xor color numbers with 7 if set) PeT 1240 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat Dec 28, 2002 5:41pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Hardware_information/palladium_schematics.tif Uploaded by : mc71de Description : Schematics of the Palladium console. Scanned by Stefan Piasecki, converted into low-size .tif by mc You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_information/palladium_schematics.tif To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mc71de 1242 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Sat Dec 28, 2002 10:34pm Subject: Hobo question amigansoftware I'm working on improving the patched version of Hobo, and have a question for those who have played it on the real thing: on level 2, is it possible to go downwards when in the vertical corridors? Thanks. 1243 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Dec 29, 2002 5:21am Subject: AD converter emulation concept change grumpfix Hello, For MESS I localized the bit which selects between horicontal and vertical axes of the stick. Routines read the ad value immediately before or after altering this bit, so I added a short delay to work with both concepts. Hobo showes another nasty routine. Alters the bits, reads the ad value. And after a short time (3ms) it doesn't care about the bit (simply setting it). Now I think the ad conversion might be tied to the video logik. At a curtain line the bit will be taken. And at a later line the digitized values/counters are written into the registers. For now 220 to take the bit, and 100 to set the registers seem fine for all games. (to be modified when a better video timing is being added). Peter 1244 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Dec 30, 2002 0:53am Subject: Re: Hobo question grumpfix amigansoftware wrote: >I'm working on improving the patched version of Hobo, and have a >question for those who have played it on the real thing: on level 2, >is it possible to go downwards when in the vertical corridors? > > No. Peter 1246 From: "Charles" Date: Wed Jan 1, 2003 10:37am Subject: Signetics 2650 Microprocessor Manual, 1980 on ebay CharlesD916 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2085437957 1247 From: "hanhein " Date: Thu Jan 2, 2003 1:53am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer hanhein I still have alle Elektor Cassettes and all other available Cassettes for the TV Spielcomputer. I also have the building instructions and the original elektor 100 magazine for building this computer. I've programmed the games motocross and space laser for Interton and elektor. I have the permission from elktor to publish these games. regards Hans-Heinz Bieling --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 9:56 AM +0000 11/27/02, Paul Holmes (via Stefan Piasecki) wrote: > > If memory serves me, we released at least three (audio) cassettes > > with about ten games each, > > Does he have these still? I'd like scans, maybe copies... Or see > at least if there is anything unique on them that we might consider > trying to put on cart instead. > > > plus a 45 RPM record. > > ?!? Ditto this one, but I'm even more intrigued, since there isn't > a lot of software released in this format. > > > Then the IBM PC came over the horizon, and our interest in the > > 2650 waned. We released some further hardware updates, published > > the book (including the monitor listing, after an intriguing fight > > with Philips - but that's another story, if you're interested?!), > > Boy, I am! Have you asked about this? > > > and I personally kept a trickle of games coming out. > > On tape? Type-in? What kind of stuff? > > > However... a few years ago, we moved house. At that time, I trashed > > the hardware. I *thought* I kept the software listings and tapes... > > but, having spent quite a while searching over the last weekend, I > > am beginning to fear the worst. > > Ack! No! I suppose that answers my questions above, but not in a > good way... > > > I only found one cassette; regrettably, the first - with the most > > primitive games. > > Well, I'm still interested, and suspect the rest of us are too. > Will he allow us copies? > > >> Do you have any of the following documents or informations that > >> you could copy for us? > >> 3) English version of the book "TV-Spielcomputer" > > > 3) Yes, my own copy. The original text > > Has he mentioned allowing copies of this, somehow? > -- > //*================================================================+ + > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// 1248 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jan 2, 2003 3:23am Subject: Re: Signetics 2650 Microprocessor Manual, 1980 on ebay grumpfix Charles wrote: > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1247&item=2085437957 > Is somebody interested in it? I am (at least for a readable scan), but with packaging and payment costs it will be too expensiv for me. Peter 1249 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri Jan 3, 2003 4:41am Subject: MESS Arcadia Patch for Video-Lexikon grumpfix Hello, To load 12kbyte cartridges (4kbyte at 0x0000, 0x2000, 0x4000) you need to enhance MESS. Video-Lexikon backup is in its final prove state. --- mess/systems/arcadia.cpp~ Mon Dec 30 16:57:21 2002 +++ mess/systems/arcadia.cpp Thu Jan 2 13:56:38 2003 @@ -349,12 +349,12 @@ } osd_fclose(cartfile); if (size>0x1000) memmove(rom+0x2000, rom+0x1000, size-0x1000); + if (size>0x2000) memmove(rom+0x4000, rom+0x3000, size-0x2000); #if 1 // golf cartridge support // 4kbyte at 0x0000 // 2kbyte at 0x4000 - if (size<=0x2000) memcpy (rom+0x3000, rom+0x2000, 0x1000); - if (size<=0x3000) memcpy (rom+0x4000, rom+0x2000, 0x2000); + if (size<=0x2000) memcpy (rom+0x4000, rom+0x2000, 0x1000); #else /* this is a testpatch for the golf cartridge so it could be burned in a arcadia 2001 cartridge Peter 1250 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Jan 3, 2003 4:14pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer slapdash26 Hi, Hans! I didn't realize you were on the list! At 2:53 PM +0000 1/1/03, hanhein wrote: >I still have alle Elektor Cassettes and all other available Cassettes >for the TV Spielcomputer. [...] >I have the permission from elktor to publish these games. That's quite cool. Could these be converted easily to BINs to be put on the multicart? Will some/all not work that way? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1251 From: "mc71de " Date: Fri Jan 3, 2003 5:32pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer mc71de Hi Russ, hi Hans-Heinz. --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > Hi, Hans! I didn't realize you were on the list! Sort of Christmas surprise :-) > hanhein wrote: > >I still have alle Elektor Cassettes and all > >other available Cassettes for the TV Spielcomputer. [...] If anyone is looking for later Elektor issues: I have them all up to 12/1985, all TV Spielcomputer stuff should be in there. They are just quite hard to scan or copy, due to ageing... One other question, Hans-Heinz: Do you know anything about the Chess game that HoCoSoft offered on Eprom only? There is a special issue with me and chess games... more on that in another post. And please bear with me: I've got lots of questions to you. Hope i will not annoy you. > >I have the permission from elktor to publish > >these games. > > That's quite cool. Could these be converted easily > to BINs to be put on the multicart? Will some/all > not work that way? Wait, Russ: This is 'Interton-land', so-to-say. I yet have to come up with an Interton Multicart accompanied with an RGB interface for the VC4000 consoles, so that all you who live in NTSC-Land will have a fair chance to use it. But in principle they should be multi-cart-able. If anyone is interested in how an Elektor TV Computer looks like, see either (yes, that is mine soon...) or the interview that Dieter K"nig had with Hans-Heinz (english version coming soon) at http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_hansheinzbieling.htm I think both the computer (including a multi-cartridge-switchboard) and the complete software tape library look impressive! And yes, provisions are made to archive all these beauties; now we only need to get hold of these two Elektor single records. -mc 1252 From: "mc71de " Date: Fri Jan 3, 2003 5:41pm Subject: Re: Signetics 2650 Microprocessor Manual, 1980 on ebay mc71de Hi group, --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Charles wrote: > > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&category=1247&item=2085437957 > > > Is somebody interested in it? > I am (at least for a readable scan) Yes, it sounds *very* interesting, especially the UVI2637 chapter might get us further. Or is anyone around who has the data sheet/ register mapping? So i try it again: Is there anyone of us, preferrably inside the U.S., willing to try to win that auction, and make the relevant chapters available for us? I can't see any sense in starting a bidding war amongst us, but i also can't see any sense in forking out another $20+ just for shipping to germany, plus taxes. Any comments, please? -mc P.S.: Personally, i am interested in info on the Video Controllers in the 267x area, and PeT might like some more info on the Instructor-50. So come on, guys! 1253 From: "hanhein " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 9:02am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > Hi Russ, hi Hans-Heinz. > > --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > > Hi, Hans! I didn't realize you were on the list! > > Sort of Christmas surprise :-) > > > hanhein wrote: > > >I still have alle Elektor Cassettes and all > > >other available Cassettes for the TV Spielcomputer. [...] > > If anyone is looking for later Elektor issues: I have them all up to > 12/1985, all TV Spielcomputer stuff should be in there. They are > just quite hard to scan or copy, due to ageing... > > One other question, Hans-Heinz: Do you know anything about the Chess > game that HoCoSoft offered on Eprom only? There is a special issue > with me and chess games... more on that in another post. There were two versions of the HoCosoft Chess game. They differed in the amount of using ram. The version which used more ram was the better one. As far is I know those game were ripped Interton games which were ported from adress 0000 to 0900. I still have the original HoCosoft manual (in german) for these games. > > And please bear with me: I've got lots of questions to you. Hope i > will not annoy you. No problem, ask me. I hope I can remember it all :-) > > > >I have the permission from elktor to publish > > >these games. > > > > That's quite cool. Could these be converted easily > > to BINs to be put on the multicart? Will some/all > > not work that way? Using the ripped TV-Spielcomputer games on a Multicart won`t work, because they were ported to higher Ram Adresses (0900 and up instead of 0000). Games which are written for the TV Spielcomputer only, are using the System Ram for flags and temporarily Memory. When u burn them to Rom, there is no Ram anymore, so the games won`t run. The Ram area (on the PVI) which was used for Rom Cartridges was very very small. So it was much easier to use the Spielcomputer Ram. I remember porting my dragrace to the interton. The Ram aera on the PVI was so small that I had to mask each of the 8 bits of a Byte as a flag. The TV-Spielcomputer version used one byte as a flag. > > Wait, Russ: This is 'Interton-land', so-to-say. I yet have to come > up with an Interton Multicart accompanied with an RGB interface for > the VC4000 consoles, so that all you who live in NTSC-Land will have > a fair chance to use it. > > But in principle they should be multi-cart-able. > > If anyone is interested in how an Elektor TV Computer looks like, > see either > Congratulations. These boards are very hard to find. > (yes, that is mine soon...) or the interview that Dieter K"nig had > with Hans-Heinz (english version coming soon) at > http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_hansheinzbieling.htm > > I think both the computer (including a multi-cartridge-switchboard) > and the complete software tape library look impressive! > > And yes, provisions are made to archive all these beauties; now we > only need to get hold of these two Elektor single records. Its all on the Music Cassettes from Elektor, too. We only need a way to read and convert the cassettes. HHB 1254 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 2:54pm Subject: Re: Signetics 2650 Microprocessor Manual, 1980 on ebay slapdash26 At 6:41 AM +0000 1/3/03, mc71de wrote: >>> http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2085437957 >So i try it again: Is there anyone of us, preferrably inside the >U.S., willing to try to win that auction, and make the relevant >chapters available for us? I can't see any sense in starting a >bidding war amongst us, but i also can't see any sense in forking >out another $20+ just for shipping to germany, plus taxes. I'm interested, but I'm not sure I want to pay quite that much... I'm hoping it will get relisted at a lower price. On the other hand, I might be talked into just getting it now if someone had carts I still needed. :-) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1255 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 7:08pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer slapdash26 At 6:32 AM +0000 1/3/03, mc71de wrote: >Wait, Russ: This is 'Interton-land', so-to-say. I yet have to come >up with an Interton Multicart accompanied with an RGB interface for >the VC4000 consoles, so that all you who live in NTSC-Land will have >a fair chance to use it. Heh, sorry, should have said BINs I guess... :-) At 10:02 PM +0000 1/3/03, hanhein wrote: >Using the ripped TV-Spielcomputer games on a Multicart won`t work, >because they were ported to higher Ram Adresses (0900 and up instead >of 0000). Games which are written for the TV Spielcomputer only, are >using the System Ram for flags and temporarily Memory. Could some be re-ported back to 0000 though? >When u burn >them to Rom, there is no Ram anymore, so the games won`t run. The Ram >area (on the PVI) which was used for Rom Cartridges was very very >small. So it was much easier to use the Spielcomputer Ram. I remember >porting my dragrace to the interton. The Ram aera on the PVI was so >small that I had to mask each of the 8 bits of a Byte as a flag. The >TV-Spielcomputer version used one byte as a flag. Meaning it would take a lot of effort to port them to a console. I see. >> And yes, provisions are made to archive all these beauties; now we >> only need to get hold of these two Elektor single records. >Its all on the Music Cassettes from Elektor, too. We only need a way >to read and convert the cassettes. I didn't realize there were TWO records... But are you saying that the games/programs on the records were ALSO available on tape? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1256 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 8:03pm Subject: Re: Re: Signetics 2650 Microprocessor Manual, 1980 on ebay grumpfix Russ Perry Jr wrote: >At 6:41 AM +0000 1/3/03, mc71de wrote: > > >>>>http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2085437957 >>>> >>>> > > > >>So i try it again: Is there anyone of us, preferrably inside the >>U.S., willing to try to win that auction, and make the relevant >>chapters available for us? I can't see any sense in starting a >>bidding war amongst us, but i also can't see any sense in forking >>out another $20+ just for shipping to germany, plus taxes. >> >> > >I'm interested, but I'm not sure I want to pay quite that much... >I'm hoping it will get relisted at a lower price. On the other >hand, I might be talked into just getting it now if someone had >carts I still needed. :-) > > I agree, the chance is big the seller will relist it with normal start prices. (the only thing I can offer is something like a wire wrap arcadia multicartridge with unmodified golf support for those consoles connecting a14 to pin 21 of the cartridge port) Peter 1257 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 7:50pm Subject: Backup log grumpfix Hello, for those interested in combining images with cartridges a short backup log combined with some technical stuff. palladium tv-computer-cassette video-lexikon art.nr. 775/118 (palladium vcg style connector) main cartridge 4kyte e0a9dd9a,1000 top subcartridge at 0x2000 bottom subcartridge at 0x4000 englisch subcartridge 4kbyte 320b0a9d,0x1000 deutsch subcartridge 4kbyte b2b9b5d8,0x1000 merged deutsch englisch 0739504d,0x3000 merged englisch deutsch 6289f607,0x3000 --------------------------------------------- boxing cartridge no. mg-321 (mpt03 style cartridge) insert cartridge to this line gc passed 21 mpt03 style connector 9240891b, 0x1000 (same as known image) Peter 1258 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 8:34pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer dieterk_ccc > >When u burn > >them to Rom, there is no Ram anymore, so the games won`t run. The Ram > >area (on the PVI) which was used for Rom Cartridges was very very > >small. So it was much easier to use the Spielcomputer Ram. I remember > >porting my dragrace to the interton. The Ram aera on the PVI was so > >small that I had to mask each of the 8 bits of a Byte as a flag. The > >TV-Spielcomputer version used one byte as a flag. > > Meaning it would take a lot of effort to port them to a console. I > see. That's a pity. How difficult would it be to make them running on the forthcoming ;) VC4000 emulator? 1259 From: "mc71de " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 9:37pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer mc71de Hi Dieter, --- "dieterk_ccc " > How difficult would it be to make them [Elektor Tapes] > running on the forthcoming ;) VC4000 emulator? No ;) Elektor TV Spielcomputer Emulator with .wav file support. such a thing will see the public some day Of course, you can give it a try and improve upon what is in MESS already as a test driver (at least for VC4000; ROM/RAM is not that big an issue; just declare TV-Computer ram area as 'RAM' and load .bin of tape content there as if it were a cart binary.) MESS weirdness... 1260 From: "hanhein " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 9:58pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > Hi Dieter, > > --- "dieterk_ccc " > > > > How difficult would it be to make them > > [Elektor Tapes] > > > running on the forthcoming ;) VC4000 emulator? > > No ;) Elektor TV Spielcomputer Emulator with .wav file support. > > > such a thing will see the public some day > > > Of course, you can give it a try and improve upon what is in MESS > already as a test driver (at least for VC4000; ROM/RAM is not that > big an issue; just declare TV-Computer ram area as 'RAM' and > load .bin of tape content there as if it were a cart binary.) > > MESS weirdness... That`s right. With an emulator there is no problem using all games. I wonder why such a simple machine as the vc4000 isn`t emulated yet. That can`t be so difficult. 1261 From: "mc71de " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 10:00pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer mc71de Hi Russ, --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 6:32 AM +0000 1/3/03, mc71de wrote: > >Wait, Russ: This is 'Interton-land', so-to-say. I yet > >have to come up with an Interton Multicart accompanied > >with an RGB interface for the VC4000 consoles, so that > >all you who live in NTSC-Land will have a fair chance > >to use it. > > Heh, sorry, should have said BINs I guess... :-) No. .wav is the way ;-) (The Arcadia and Cosmac-ELF people actually do such things: Tidied and as-compact-as-possible wav files, played back via computer sound card, and right away into the 'Real Thing'... > Could some be re-ported back to 0000 though? [...] > Meaning it would take a lot of effort to port > them to a console. I see. Yes. Making an 'Elektor.Cart' is easier. Actually, Back in The Days, such devices existed (even one done by Philips themselves, but semi- compatible only). See http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_hansheinzbieling.htm for some details (english version RSN; wheel re-inventing mode off) > I didn't realize there were TWO records... Yes indeed. Paul Holmes missed that in the interview (for HHB:look at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_fil es/arcadia-newsletter-example.PDF; commonly referred to 'it's somewhere in the files area'). But the old advertisements of Elektor do offer *two* records. When the first tape came out (ESS007) accompanying 'the book', they announced it with words like 'improved versions of the programs sold on records are published on that tape...' I'll look it up this weekend, and provide you with a scan. I don't even expect the records to be readable very well, after 20+ years. They weren't that reliable back then either. But just out of curiousity and for the sake of completeliness (Super Bug comes to mind...) > But are you saying that the games/programs > on the records were ALSO available on tape? Basically, that's correct. And even if there are some differences, it's no big loss. But as Ward would have said: You cannot be sure before you got it archived and compared. -mc 1262 From: "hanhein " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 10:32pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Russ Perry Jr wrote: > > >> only need to get hold of these two Elektor single records. > > >Its all on the Music Cassettes from Elektor, too. We only need a way > >to read and convert the cassettes. > > I didn't realize there were TWO records... But are you saying that > the games/programs on the records were ALSO available on tape? > -- Yes, all games were also released on Tape. You can see a picture of these Cassettes on Dieter Koenigs homepage. Here is list a of my Elektor TV-Spielcomputer Games: ESS 07: Mastermind by H. Tr"ndle Kode-Knacker by K. Reilly / P. Williams Reversi by H. Tr"ndle Amazone by P. Holmes Weltraumschlacht by P. Holmes 4 in einer Reihe 4 in einer Reihe by H. Tr"ndle Jackpot by P. Holmes Umzingelung Figurenraten by P. Williams PVI Programmierung by P. Holmes Disassembler by M. Saliger / P. Holmes Lotto by M. Saliger ESS 11: Snakes & Ladders by G.M. Roberts Molebasher by G.M: Roberts Snap by V.W. Truman Mazes by B.A. Sedoni Asteroids by M.V. Norman Dragster by H.-H. Bieling (interton Motocross) Omega Landing by W. Sembritzki Breakout by N. Hagemann Horse race / jackpot by C. Isoart Newton by P. Marschat Horse races by B.A. Sedoni Painting by W. Sembritzki Submarine / Racing by R. Lange Cosmic Adventure by N. Hagemann ESS 10: Eindringlinge by N. Normann Flipper by Martin Greiner Hubschrauber by Christian M,nnchen Harte Nu  by Paul J?rgen Dickers Pilot by M. Greiner (Interton Flight Simulator) Angriff aus dem All by M. Godfrey Reverse by M. Greiner Raketenjagd by M. Norman Basketball by M. Greiner (the missing Interton Basketball) Platzende Ballons by H. Jansen F?r Elise by K. Schuster (musicfile using the AY8910 PSG Kit of the TV- Spielcomputer) Editor by P. Holmes Galgenspiel / Hangman by P.J. Dickers (this was the original Hangman for Interton) Ess 9: Angreifer by M. Norman Hochsee Angeln by M. Norman Rundfahrt by M. Norman Seekrieg by P.J. Dickers Memory by P.J. Dickers Labyrinth by P. Holmes Zerst"rer by G. Roberts Raumschiff Enterprise by M. Norman 17 und 4 by M. Norman Kartentrick by P.J. Dickers Awari by M. Greiner Ufo-Abschuss by P. Schmidt Raster by G. Roberts Nim by H. Tr"ndle Solit,r by G. Roberts P. Holmes was the publisher at Elektor Verlag of these Cassettes. He programmed a lot of very useful tools for programming the TV- Spielcomputer. P.J. Dickers created the memory enhancement kits and the AY8910 PSG Sound Enhancement kit for Hocosoft and Elektor. He also created a modification kit for the 2650 Hanimex and Radofin System to make these systems a fully working TV-Spielcomputer. Maybe there are still some systems out there. Hans-Heinz Bieling 1263 From: "hanhein " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 10:48pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer hanhein Hi mc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > do offer *two* records. When the first tape came out (ESS007) > accompanying 'the book', they announced it with words like 'improved > versions of the programs sold on records are published on that > tape...' I'll look it up this weekend, and provide you with a scan. > > I don't even expect the records to be readable very well, after 20+ > years. They weren't that reliable back then either. But just out of > curiousity and for the sake of completeliness (Super Bug comes to > mind...) > > > But are you saying that the games/programs > > on the records were ALSO available on tape? > > Basically, that's correct. And even if there are some differences, > it's no big loss. But as Ward would have said: You cannot be sure > before you got it archived and compared. > > -mc I had all versions in those days. There weren`t any differences. But P. Holmes used to "enhance" the original games with some options as he did it with my game "dragrace" by hacking the code. He also used to add calibration routines for the analog joysticks, because all the Tv Spielcomputer systems had different joysticks (this wasn`t a problem with the consoles). HHB 1264 From: "mc71de " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 10:59pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer mc71de Hi Hans-Heinz, --- "hanhein " wrote: > There were two versions of the HoCosoft Chess game. > They differed in the amount of using ram. The version > which used more ram was the better one. I posted a scan of an HoCo ad into the files section at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Photos_and_sc ans/Ads_and_articles/hoco16.gif from Elektor may 1981. There HoCo offers Hocosoft 0024:Schach as EPROM-game. That was what i meant, as it was 'non-Tape'. BTW: Do you still have some advertizing material from HoCo, since later Elektor mags don't have HoCo ads any more. And i wonder what these 'letter codes' after the game title mean. I think they show what expansions are supported/needed; am i right? > As far is I know those game were ripped Interton > games which were ported from adress 0000 to 0900. Seems all that Interton and Arcadia business is about ripping... > I still have the original HoCosoft manual (in > german) for these games. Cool! German is not a real problem for me. (Born in Cologne, and i live wuite in the middle between Cologne and Aachen.) > Using the ripped TV-Spielcomputer games on a > Multicart won`t work, ...unless you hack the monitor program in a way that it could 'load' from a rom area somewhere above the PVI. A 'real' Interton multicart would need some RAM anyway. Either i got too few sleep last night, or some of my fuses have gone. But it *is* possible... [...] > The TV-Spielcomputer version used one byte as a flag. Off-topic: ZX81 with its ultra-tight RAM space used masked bits as flag. But when i came to C64, every flag used a whole byte. I still think that's wasting ressources, with some 4000 times the 64s memory... > Congratulations. These boards are very hard to find. Well... i took the chance. I would be equally happy with my vc4000 beefed up with an Elektor.cart, and Elektor even have shown interest in re-releasing the TV computer. So maybe i'll ask them about publishing an article about that? Problem are the parts: CPU/PVI can be ripped from an Interton machine, which are quite cheap to buy, but the RAM area had to be reworked for 2Kx8bit chips. So an Elektor.cart for VC4000 might be easier. On the other hand many VC4000 suffer from bad video output (in fact, it's modern TVs that have problems...). So i haven't yet decided if i should offer Elektor an article or not. > We only need a way to read and convert the cassettes. Come time, come converter :) > > HHB -mc 1265 From: "hanhein " Date: Sat Jan 4, 2003 11:58pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > Hi Hans-Heinz, > > --- "hanhein " wrote: > > There were two versions of the HoCosoft Chess game. > > They differed in the amount of using ram. The version > > which used more ram was the better one. > > I posted a scan of an HoCo ad into the files section at > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Photos_and_sc > ans/Ads_and_articles/hoco16.gif > from Elektor may 1981. There HoCo offers Hocosoft 0024:Schach as > EPROM-game. That was what i meant, as it was 'non-Tape'. Hi mc, the link doesn`t work. Can you fix it? > Seems all that Interton and Arcadia business is about ripping... > > > I still have the original HoCosoft manual (in > > german) for these games. > > Cool! German is not a real problem for me. (Born in Cologne, and i > live wuite in the middle between Cologne and Aachen.) I'll scan them for you. > > > [...] > > > > > Congratulations. These boards are very hard to find. > > Well... i took the chance. I would be equally happy with my vc4000 > beefed up with an Elektor.cart, and Elektor even have shown interest > in re-releasing the TV computer. So maybe i'll ask them about > publishing an article about that? There existed such a very good card from 2 students from Bochum university. It was a 20cm long pcb board which fitted in the VC 4000 slot. It had 8 kB of Ram and a switch for changing the memory from 0800 to 0000. So it was possible to load the rom game via cassette interface and then start it at the right memory area. I had offered this system to interton and they used it a few month before closing as a development system. Unfortunately I`ve thrown away my pcb a few years ago. > > Problem are the parts: CPU/PVI can be ripped from an Interton > machine, which are quite cheap to buy, but the RAM area had to be > reworked for 2Kx8bit chips. So an Elektor.cart for VC4000 might be > easier. On the other hand many VC4000 suffer from bad video output > (in fact, it's modern TVs that have problems...). So i haven't yet > decided if i should offer Elektor an article or not. > There is an electronic shop here in town which sold many of the TV Spielcomputer pcb`s. I`ve bought some of the rams last year at this shop. But they are expensive as 128 Mb SDRAMs. > > We only need a way to read and convert the cassettes. > > Come time, come converter :) My TV Spielcomputer doesn`t work properly (Ram problem)anymore. I want to find someone who still has a working model with memory extension, so that I can try to save the games to new cassettes or .wav files. With every month waiting, the change of saving these cassette games is getting smaller. The best way saving the games would be an emulator. I had send a copy of the TV Spielcomputer bios to PET at the beginning of last year and hoped that it would be implemented in the MESS project. HHB 1266 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Sun Jan 5, 2003 6:46am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer dieterk_ccc > That`s right. With an emulator there is no problem using all games. I > wonder why such a simple machine as the vc4000 isn`t emulated yet. > That can`t be so difficult. Peter!?!?!? Please!!!!! :-) 1268 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Jan 5, 2003 5:30pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer slapdash26 At 11:00 AM +0000 1/4/03, mc71de wrote: > Russ Perry Jr wrote: >> Heh, sorry, should have said BINs I guess... :-) > No. .wav is the way ;-) (The Arcadia and Cosmac-ELF people actually > do such things: Tidied and as-compact-as-possible wav files, played > back via computer sound card, and right away into the 'Real Thing'... Er, but even cleaned up and shrunk WAV files are going to be bigger than BINs, right? There's a tool for 2600 games called BIN2WAV that turns BINs into WAVs on the fly, and I'd recommend something like that rather than keeping games in WAV form. --- At 11:32 AM +0000 1/4/03, hanhein wrote: >P.J. Dickers created the memory enhancement kits and the AY8910 PSG >Sound Enhancement kit for Hocosoft and Elektor. He also created a >modification kit for the 2650 Hanimex and Radofin System to make >these systems a fully working TV-Spielcomputer. Yeah, I hadn't heard of that one either... Did it require any real tech (soldering etc), or was it kind of a plug-in thing? --- At 11:59 AM +0000 1/4/03, mc71de wrote: > "hanhein " wrote: >> Using the ripped TV-Spielcomputer games on a Multicart won`t work >...unless you hack the monitor program in a way that it could 'load' >from a rom area somewhere above the PVI. A 'real' Interton multicart >would need some RAM anyway. Either i got too few sleep last night, >or some of my fuses have gone. But it *is* possible... How much memory can the Interton cartridge port address? I suppose you could build a RAM cart instead of a multicart, and then you could load stuff into RAM, 0000 or 9000 or whatever. Don't know if the architecture would allow it though... --- At 12:58 PM +0000 1/4/03, hanhein wrote: >There existed such a very good card from 2 students from Bochum >university. It was a 20cm long pcb board which fitted in the VC 4000 >slot. It had 8 kB of Ram and a switch for changing the memory from >0800 to 0000. So it was possible to load the rom game via cassette >interface and then start it at the right memory area. I had offered >this system to interton and they used it a few month before closing >as a development system. Unfortunately I`ve thrown away my pcb a few >years ago. Argh! :-{ >My TV Spielcomputer doesn`t work properly (Ram problem)anymore. I >want to find someone who still has a working model with memory >extension, so that I can try to save the games to new cassettes >or .wav files. With every month waiting, the change of saving these >cassette games is getting smaller. It should be possible to at least get WAV files of the tapes whether or not you have a working Spielcomputer though, right? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1269 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jan 5, 2003 7:03pm Subject: Re: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer grumpfix hanhein wrote: >>>How difficult would it be to make them >>> >>> >>[Elektor Tapes] >> >> >> >>>running on the forthcoming ;) VC4000 emulator? >>> >>> >>No ;) Elektor TV Spielcomputer Emulator with .wav file support. >> >> >>such a thing will see the public some day >> >> >>Of course, you can give it a try and improve upon what is in MESS >>already as a test driver (at least for VC4000; ROM/RAM is not that >>big an issue; just declare TV-Computer ram area as 'RAM' and >>load .bin of tape content there as if it were a cart binary.) >> >>MESS weirdness... >> >> > >That`s right. With an emulator there is no problem using all games. I >wonder why such a simple machine as the vc4000 isn`t emulated yet. >That can`t be so difficult. > > Games depend extremely on timing of some bits/signals MAME/MESS timing/sync/interrupt system (some high level emulation in floating point precission) not good for cycle exact emulations MESS members quarrelling Missing dumps (okay, a few guys have a big vc4000 image collection yet; thanks to Dieter) Incomplete documentation (with TOPP book (thanks Max) and tv spielcomputer book (thanks Stefan) quite complete now; some exotics are still missing like AY8910 extension) my motivation and time me quitting MAME/MESS membership Peter PS: Sorry, I have been too lazy to do DOS builds (problems with the crosscompiler, and me not wanting to use pure/poor DOS or Windows) of my actual driver (not amazing compatibility yet) and my tapetool (should be good enough to convert wav file into short gentap format, or to decode TV Spielcomputer titels 1 by 1 from wav files) --> decoded games can be loaded quick and easy by the Quickloader PPS: wav files the tv spiel computer encodes the information in the count of pulses (contrary to for example the plain commodore vc20/64/128/16 format, where the information is coded in pulse lengths). So it is quite robust (and slow). Only for "tape aware" programs (multipart programs, programs with turbo loader, ...) the tape (wavfile, gentap) emulation will be needed For good recording: sometimes you should wind/rewind the tape, so the band is always tend, and the distance the data tracks to tone heads is stable (and position data track to tone head) adjust the recording level to get "loud" rectangular signals, and not nice waveforms (8bit is more than enough) record in stereo (2 chances a head position is good enough) record with high frequency (44100Hz, 48000Hz) (some reserves for high level filters or manual decoding) (I will do it myself if needed, as with my vc20 tape collection, and give my other wishes lower priority). 1270 From: "hanhein " Date: Sun Jan 5, 2003 10:25pm Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview 2650 TV Spielcomputer hanhein > >That`s right. With an emulator there is no problem using all games. I > >wonder why such a simple machine as the vc4000 isn`t emulated yet. > >That can`t be so difficult. > > > > > Games depend extremely on timing of some bits/signals > MAME/MESS timing/sync/interrupt system (some high level emulation in > floating point precission) not good for cycle exact emulations > MESS members quarrelling > Missing dumps (okay, a few guys have a big vc4000 image collection yet; > thanks to Dieter) > Incomplete documentation > (with TOPP book (thanks Max) and tv spielcomputer book (thanks Stefan) > quite complete now; > some exotics are still missing like AY8910 extension) > my motivation and time > me quitting MAME/MESS membership > > Peter > You are right. The timing is difficult. Using the timing during vertical blank interrupt was the only way to change background colours, using more objects (sprites), and counters. Without emulating the original timing, it is impossible to play the games. HHB 1272 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon Jan 6, 2003 6:57pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Temporary_files/video_lexikon.zip Uploaded by : grumpfix Description : You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/video_lexikon.zip To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, grumpfix 1273 From: "mc71de " Date: Mon Jan 6, 2003 10:29pm Subject: Re: New file - Video Lexikon mc71de Hi Peter, hi all, thanks you for the file. It's nice! I took the freedom and re-uploaded the scans of the keypad ovverlays that go with it. You will find it in the same folder as the .zip file. This scan was originally uploaded by Stefan Piasecki, but removed later as the files and photo area were cleaned up. I hope Stefan won't lynch me now? Does anyone have short instructions for Video Lexikon? For example, we do not necessarily need two 'combined files'. Pressing one of the option keys changes the translation direction. I learned this by accident; as a matter of fact, i was off a minute. When i came back, the cat had walked over the keyboard and the languages were exchanged, but he refused to tell me what keys he pressed. He didn't even say 'Meoww-rrrrr'... but i found out anyway! But i cannot get it to translate anything... -mc 1275 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Tue Jan 7, 2003 9:29pm Subject: Re: Beware of Other People's Rules amigansoftware > > But maybe you > > can make good use of the code snippets and tips (2650 flag line > > inverts R,G,B color output) and incorporate them into the current > > MESS/MAME sources, and maybe get into the 'inner circles' of MESS > > team? Maybe PeT having some problems with them should not keep you > > from giving it a try? If only i had gone with the 'C' train, i > would > > do it myself; but i went with PAscal instead :-( > > Yes, I have been making a list of the changes PeT has made, but I > have not > actually applied any of the changes to my copy of MESS yet. I think > it is > important that the improvements officially become part of MESS, but I > would > not presume to submit the changes to the MESS team on his behalf > without his > permission, when he seems to not want that to happen, for whatever > reason. > And also the fact that he is still probably making further changes at > this > time. But someone should compile these changes and release it at > least to the > files area of this egroup. On second thoughts, it would be quicker if one of the members who already has the enhanced version uploaded it... 1276 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Jan 7, 2003 8:00pm Subject: Re: Re: Beware of Other People's Rules grumpfix Hello, >Yes, I have been making a list of the changes PeT has made, but I >have not >actually applied any of the changes to my copy of MESS yet. I think >it is >important that the improvements officially become part of MESS, but I >would >not presume to submit the changes to the MESS team on his behalf >without his >permission, when he seems to not want that to happen, for whatever >reason. >And also the fact that he is still probably making further changes at >this >time. But someone should compile these changes and release it at >least to the >files area of this egroup. I will be doing that shortly, if PeT does >not have >any objections. I'm not too worried about "forking" MESS - I only use >it for >Arcadia emulation, I have dedicated emulators for TRS-80, etc. > You can submit them to MESS on your behalf (giving me credits). It is waste of time for me spending time on the actual MESS versions Even keeping MESS working would need a lot of time: (newly introduced bugs: vcg degraded to testdriver, studio2 disabled, odyssey2 hanging/traping in some titles and collisions, c16 cartridge support broken, xmame only? file io damaged in xmame62rc4 (relativ paths), ...) >If I'm not mistaken, the emulator will also need changing to support >the extra >row of "Palladium keys", which is used by Video Lexicon? > No. It already supports them (since my console is a palladium vcg and therefore got the info needed easily). ("paladium"/vcg normal driver since 37b15? and until 56?) Peter 1277 From: "mc71de " Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 4:51am Subject: Re: Beware of Other People's Rules mc71de Hi Peter, > vcg degraded to testdriver, > studio2 disabled, They did WHAT?!? They're crazy? What a mess! > odyssey2 hanging/traping in some titles and collisions, > c16 cartridge support broken, > xmame only? file io damaged in xmame62rc4 (relativ paths), > ...) Remind me to have my glasses checked soon... >> If I'm not mistaken, the emulator will also need >> changing to support the extra row of "Palladium >> keys", which is used by Video Lexicon? > No. It already supports them (since my console is > a palladium vcg and therefore got the info needed > easily). > ("paladium"/vcg normal driver since 37b15? and until 56?) I'm using MESS 0.56, and the palladium keys work well; mapping could be better (but would reach into F keys). I'll edit the overlay scans to show which are the 'additional' keys, and to what PC keys everything maps. Silly question: In respect to hardware, the only difference VCG to Arcadia is the added keys (some Arcadias *do* have the RGB inverter and A14 on cart slot). The VCG's R/-W line isn't used on any known cart (or is it?); so what's the point of rendering -vcg a test driver (and thus useless for many MESS users)? So either both or none would make sense. Or don't they know where to map the 28K RAM? But maybe asking about sense with anything Arcadia is pointless anyway. -mc 1278 From: "hanhein " Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 8:46am Subject: Re: Paul Holmes Interview hanhein > Hey, i can tell you: First article of basic (*not* 'BASIC'!) system > in (german!) Elektor #100, 4/1979 (April). And no, it was not an > april fool's joke... > > Elektor has something like that in their so-called 'semiconductor > issue' 7/8 every year. (They are on holiday in summer and so they > produce a doble issue, which is quite different to the others. In > the early years, there were semiconductor (read: ic) circuits; today > there are mostly rather small circuits that cover less than a page > each, not the usual several-page-long articles... This 'special > issue btw. is twice as thick and twice as expensive than other > issues. So Elektor has 11 issues/year but is worth (content and > money) for 12... > > Dates of other articles to follow. > > -mc Hi all, I still have the original issues. Yes, it did all start with Elektor 100 in April 1979. The Front Cover of that issue showed Sceen Photos of the Interton Games Pferderennen, Jagen, Blackjack, Mathematik and some demo-pictures. It described the hardware and the instructions how to build the machine. The next article was in October 1979 and described how to program the TV Spielcomputer (software part1). The second part (programming Software) was released in december 1979. In june 1980 there was another article named "Erfahrungen, Erfahrungen" and descibed how to access the joysticks. Although Paul Holmes didn't notice the similarity to the Interton, Radofin and Hanimex Consoles, there was an active community which developed add-ons for these consoles to make them a fully working Tv Spielcomputer. Even Phillips had designed a small cartridge which turned the vc 4000 into a little TV Spielcomputer. The bios was a little bit different and the cartridge had no cassette interface and the Ram was too small, but it was a TV Spielcomputer. Unfortunately this Cartridge was never released, because it was too expensive. I was given the only copy Interton had of it, but I didn`t realize at that time that this would become precious in the future. So this Cartridge vanished 17 years ago. But I'm sure there are still some of the modified Hanimex and Radofin Consoles out there. -HHB 1279 From: "oboissea " Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 8:56am Subject: Derek Andrews interview oboissea Hello guys I know I don't post that much but I read all the posts since the very beginning (even long Ward ones ;-) ) Derek Andrews contacted us at www.old-computers.com. He is the programmer of Leap Frog and Munch & Crunch for the Voltmace Database. I have prepared an interview of him. You can read it here: http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=6&a=15 First I want to thank Micheal Davidson since I used two of its screenshots to illustrate the interview. I hope that it is OK Michael?! If you have more questions that you would like me to ask him, just send them to me at olivier@... Let me know what you think! PS : Derek also sent me a mail a few days ago saying: "Came across this post which has a fairly lengthy description of the 2636 video chip (though I expect you have seen it already): http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt" 1280 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 3:49pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview slapdash26 At 9:56 PM +0000 1/7/03, oboissea wrote: >Derek Andrews contacted us at www.old-computers.com. He is the >programmer of Leap Frog and Munch & Crunch for the Voltmace Database. >I have prepared an interview of him. You can read it here: >http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=6&a=15 Wow, interesting... >If you have more questions that you would like me to ask him, just >send them to me at olivier@... I can't think of anything in particular, since you've already covered the standard "what else did you do?" and "who else was doing it?"; a shame he didn't have more names to look up. >PS : Derek also sent me a mail a few days ago saying: >"Came across this post which has a fairly lengthy description of the >2636 video chip (though I expect you have seen it already): >http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt" Isn't that in the Files area? I know I've run across that file two or three times in the past... Don't know whatever happened to CyberYogi though. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1281 From: "mc71de " Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 6:07pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview mc71de Hi Russ, --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > Wow, interesting... Yep. Great work! Get that guy here, please! ;) And i like the 'zx81-as-development-system' part! (Because my first computer was a zx81, and because i wouldn't have thought it's limited capabilities would make anyone consider doing such things...) > >http://www.informatik.fh-hamburg.de/~windle_c/vgames/Inte4000.txt" > > Isn't that in the Files area? Yes, Ward put a copy in the files area, and the link to CyberYogi's page in the links area. > Don't know whatever happened > to CyberYogi though. Currently he considers data reduced misic (as in .mp3 files) a potential danger for the health of your ears... causing tinnitus and stuff. Personally, i don't think i see the world the same way he does. But has anyone carefully read the story about his flea market find of a nearly complete VC4000 collection? Seems to claim he has a copy of the as-of-yet unknown Interton #35 cart. Who wants to travel to Hamburg and get it dumped, please? By the way: CY mentions a german book about a 2636 system; this happens to be the same what i have scanned recently, and is shown at Dieter's Interview with HHB next to the well-known Elektor book. See http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_hansheinzbieling.htm once more... If anyone wants a copy (around 5MB in photocopy quality), please drop me a line, and we'll work out something. But remember: It's written in german, and in an annoying style. So you have be warned! -mc 1282 From: "hanhein " Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 6:44pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview hanhein Hi mc, I can`t believe that he has a copy of the #35 Cart Rodeo. I owned all cartridges (took them from the interton stock) at that time, but never #35. I had the offer to program it. But I never heard that someone else released that cart. -HHB > > But has anyone carefully read the story about his flea market find > of a nearly complete VC4000 collection? Seems to claim he has a copy > of the as-of-yet unknown Interton #35 cart. Who wants to travel to > Hamburg and get it dumped, please? > > By the way: CY mentions a german book about a 2636 system; this > happens to be the same what i have scanned recently, and is shown at > Dieter's Interview with HHB next to the well-known Elektor book. > See http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_hansheinzbieling.htm once > more... > > If anyone wants a copy (around 5MB in photocopy quality), please > drop me a line, and we'll work out something. But remember: It's > written in german, and in an annoying style. So you have be warned! > > -mc 1283 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 7:25pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Photos_and_scans/Box_artwork/Arcadia Macross & Gundam.jpg Uploaded by : axtelius2001 Description : Macross, Gundam boxes You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Photos_and_scans/Box_artwork/Arcadia%20Macross%20%26%20Gundam.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, axtelius2001 1284 From: "axtelius2001 " Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 7:29pm Subject: Macross and Gundam has arrived! axtelius2001 Yes yes yes, they are finaly here :) Just spoke to my friend and they arrived today. I have uploaded the 3 pictures he emailed me to: Files > Photos_and_scans > Box_artwork My mother will visit my sister who lives in the same town as my friend tomorrow, she will pick up the carts and give them to me this weekend. So I should be able to dump them next week. /frax 1285 From: "oboissea " Date: Wed Jan 8, 2003 7:52pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview oboissea > >I have prepared an interview of him. You can read it here: > >http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=6&a=15 > Wow, interesting... Thanks I wanted to say something important: If someone want to use this interview for his website, no problem! > a shame he didn't have more names to look up. Well in fact he gave me the email of his former boss at Voltmace! So I'm preparing another interview as this guy will surely know more about licencing and stuffs... Same question: if you want me to ask him specific questions, send them to me or post them here. Gundam and Macross cartridges look terrific! ;-) 1286 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 9:46am Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "oboissea " wrote: > I wanted to say something important: > If someone want to use this interview for his website, no problem! Great and very interesting interview, Olivier! And thanks for the offer as I am really thinking of adding it to my Interton pages at www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/. Would you prefer if I link to the interview on your site or should I just copy the text and create a new page for my website. Of course your URL will be mentioned as source! Thanks, Dieter 1287 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 9:52am Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "hanhein " wrote: > Hi mc, > I can`t believe that he has a copy of the #35 Cart Rodeo. I owned all > cartridges (took them from the interton stock) at that time, but > never #35. I had the offer to program it. But I never heard that > someone else released that cart. That is my opinion too. I am browsing ebay for more than 2 years now, looking for Interton auctions and I NEVER found a #35 there. And CyberYogi writes on his site that he found all those games complete in box. If he would have a loose prototype cart I would say, yes, maybe. But it's even harder to believe that it exists complete with box which would mean that it was at least in limited production. So as for Hans-Heinz, for me it is also very doubtful that #35 exists. That's also the reason why I did put it in the "Rumor Mill" in my Interton section of Digital Press Collectors Guide 7. And it will stay there until we have any confirmation of CyberYogi. 1288 From: "oboissea " Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 9:53am Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview oboissea > Great and very interesting interview, Olivier! Thanks :-) > And thanks for the > offer as I am really thinking of adding it to my Interton pages at > www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/. Would you prefer if I link to the interview > on your site or should I just copy the text and create a new page for > my website. Use the way you prefer... no problem with me We are here to help each others and promote our beloved systems :-) 1289 From: "hanhein " Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 9:58am Subject: UVI 2637 datasheets found & Hangman source hanhein I`ve done some research in my old documentations and found a complete copy of the signetics 2637 UVI manual. With timing diagrams, register and memory descriptions and character set description (18 pages). I don`t know if you have it already, but I think it may be useful. Unfortunately it is copied on that old copy paper (no toner, a kind of wet copy on special paper) so the quality is not as good as with modern copiers. The next thing I found is the complete Source of the rare Dickers Hangman game in the interton vc4000 version. This version was never released on any Cartridge !!!!!!!! Is there someone who is crazy enough to create a working rom from this source papers (lot of typing)? -HHB 1290 From: "kiwigame " Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 0:04pm Subject: re:Subject: Derek Andrews interview kiwigame >Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 21:56:06 -0000 >From: "oboissea " >Subject: Derek Andrews interview > >Hello guys >Derek Andrews contacted us at www.old-computers.com. He is the >programmer of Leap Frog and Munch & Crunch for the Voltmace Database. >I have prepared an interview of him. You can read it here: >http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=6&a=15 > >First I want to thank Micheal Davidson since I used two of its >screenshots to illustrate the interview. I hope that it is OK >Michael?! Olivier - a wonderful interview. Thank you! I've got no issues with you using the screenshots (in fact I wish you had also used the screenshots of the title screens as well) (What you can't tell from the screenshots is that on the Title screen the "LeapFrog" title "hops" into view + if you look carefully at the game shot the trucks have little letters on them as they go by that spell out "Voltmace") Munch&Crunch & LeapFrog are my 2 favourite games for this family of systems. They are really polished & VERY playable so its a thrill to hear from the Author who clearly pushed the system hard. Voltmace is a company I've got quite an interest in knowing more about.. So if you do get a chance to ask more questions I'd like to know :) 1) At various stages the company was called Voltmace, Videomaster (owned by Waddingtons (huge boardgame company)) Some Database games are labelled "Voltmace Database" others "VideoMaster Database". I would like to know who owned it when and how the tangled ownership mess pans out. 3) They also produced a standalone "StarChess" console. (+ possibly a standalone normal Chess console as well) I've opened mine up & it looks custom (not just VC4000 hardware with only 1 game ROM) Cheers Michael 1291 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 4:18pm Subject: Re: UVI 2637 datasheets found & Hangman source mc71de Hi HHB, --- "hanhein " wrote: > found a complete copy of the signetics 2637 UVI manual. Cool! Great! Yes, we want it; at some point this summer, there were people crazy enough to weigh the person up in gold who brings this paper in... And the Signetics Manual offered at Ebay a few days ago didn't contain all that info, it just had a 'preliminary data sheet' of one page. According to the seller, it was not enough to program the UVI. > Unfortunately it is copied on that old copy paper No problem, if it's somewhat readable at all. Do you have a scanner? I think stuff like that needs to be scanned at 300dpi, and saved as .tiff or .gif with at least 256 shades of grey (attention: do not save as g4-fax-compressed .tiff since that gives ugly loss in quality). That might give rather large files; if you have fast access to your company's web server (yes, we spotted that one!), you could put it there (in a secret area...) and i could get it there and try to 'shrink' it without loss of readability (i have done such recently with quite good results). Or you could make photocopies (xerox copies) and send them to me and let me scan them (i'd rather not mail around the 'original copies' since it's quite rare stuff). > Is there someone who is crazy enough to create > a working rom from this source papers (lot of > typing)? Yep, send 'em over... (same as above: copies or scans, whatever suits you best. And i'd not send these originals by mail either) BTW: 'doing lots of work' is commonly referred to as 'pull the ward' in these circles :) -mc PS: Adam, are you still around? Typing in boring rows of code had always been your job? ;) 1292 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 4:45pm Subject: Re: re:Subject: Derek Andrews interview mc71de Hi Michael, --- "kiwigame " wrote: > (What you can't tell from the screenshots is that > on the Title screen the "LeapFrog" title "hops" into > view + if you look carefully at the game shot the > trucks have little letters on them as they go by that > spell out "Voltmace") Sounds promising! I look forward to see this on my VC4000 one day. Read: we need to get'em dumped... > So if you do get a chance to ask more questions I'd like to > know :) > > 1) [...] I would like to know who owned it when and > how the tangled ownership mess pans out. > > 3) They also produced a standalone "StarChess" console. > (+ possibly a standalone normal Chess console as well) > I've opened mine up & it looks custom (not just VC4000 > hardware with only 1 game ROM) 4) Did Voltmace ever deal with Interton? (licensing games, and stuff) 5) (maybe a question for the collectors and not for an interview) Did Voltmace ever use chips that were labeled 'CT42x' instead of '26xx'? (Functionally the same, and were used in early Intertons. I'd like to know whether that was an Interton quirk, or originated at Philips/ Signetics?) And for Michael: - What chips are there inside the Star chess console? Something recognizable, or totally weird stuff? just curious... -mc 1293 From: "kiwigame " Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 7:35pm Subject: Re: re:Subject: Derek Andrews interview kiwigame --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > Sounds promising! I look forward to see this on my VC4000 > one day. Read: we need to get'em dumped... I'm happy to send my copies to some reliable to dump them. However it might be easier to source them from a UK collector.. Database stuff does show up on ebay UK quite often. > And for Michael: > - What chips are there inside the Star chess console? Something > recognizable, or totally weird stuff? I'll dig it out the StarChess later & post my findings - its in the shed & the still unscrewed so I don't even have to open it up again :) Thanks Michael 1294 From: "hanhein " Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 2:03am Subject: UVI data sheets are online for one week hanhein I've put the UVI data sheets online. Ask me for the link. -HHB 1295 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jan 9, 2003 6:33pm Subject: Re: re:Subject: Derek Andrews interview grumpfix kiwigame wrote: >3) They also produced a standalone "StarChess" console. >(+ possibly a standalone normal Chess console as well) >I've opened mine up & it looks custom (not just VC4000 hardware with >only 1 game ROM) > > What about posting (or putting in the file area) scans of the "console" and its board/print? Peter 1296 From: "clubninja2001 " Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 1:54pm Subject: Cart IDs? clubninja2001 Hey there - I've been enjoying the Arcadia for a while now, and just got into some of the more obscure foreign stuff (I'm in the US.) Anyway, I received a Sheen console in the mail today with two carts. They are Auto Race and Baseball, but apparently different companies. I've included a link to a picture of them. Could anyone provide a little more info on these? Thanks much! Scott http://www.gis.net/~bertulli/sheencarts.jpg 1297 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 3:54pm Subject: Re: Cart IDs? slapdash26 At 2:54 AM +0000 1/10/03, clubninja2001 wrote: >I received a Sheen console in the mail today with two carts. They are >Auto Race and Baseball, but apparently different companies. I've >included a link to a picture of them. Could anyone provide a little >more info on these? Thanks much! > >http://www.gis.net/~bertulli/sheencarts.jpg Heh, sadly, no... The one on the left could be an Intervision cart, but those are usually white plastic, not black. It's the same label though. The one on the right might actually be a Sheen brand cart, but I can't say for sure, as I've never gotten that proved and only have a couple crappy images. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1298 From: "mc71de " Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:34pm Subject: Re: UVI data sheets are online for one week mc71de Hi all, --- "hanhein " wrote: > I've put the UVI data sheets online. Ask me for the link. For those who are afraid of the 86 MB: I managed to shrink the archive to just above 6 MB and even increase readability. If someone wants *this* version, ask me, and i'll tell you where to get it. -mc 1299 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:41pm Subject: Re: UVI 2637 datasheets found & Hangman source slapdash26 At 10:58 PM +0000 1/8/03, hanhein wrote: >The next thing I found is the complete Source of the rare Dickers >Hangman game in the interton vc4000 version. This version was never >released on any Cartridge !!!!!!!! Is there someone who is crazy >enough to create a working rom from this source papers (lot of >typing)? Erf, if no one else volunteers, I'd be willing to give it a go... at least the type-in part, since I'm not sure I'd be able to compile it or anything. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1300 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:45pm Subject: Re: Macross and Gundam has arrived! slapdash26 At 8:29 AM +0000 1/8/03, axtelius2001 wrote: >Yes yes yes, they are finaly here :) Groovy! >Just spoke to my friend and they arrived today. >I have uploaded the 3 pictures he emailed me to: >Files > Photos_and_scans > Box_artwork Hey, I didn't know you knew RL! He sent me the same pic... Small world! >So I should be able to dump them next week. That's awesome... Now if we could only find Super Bug or some of the rumored stuff. :-) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1301 From: "mc71de " Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 5:59pm Subject: Re: Macross and Gundam has arrived! mc71de Hi Russ, > Now if we could only find Super Bug or some of the > rumored stuff. :-) How about the fabulous keyboard? I think it's just one of those translation flaws, in the palladium manual. So what they announced is most likely already sitting on my desk, as the two connectable Palladium controllers. But the UVI data sheet really has a block diagram of a home computer, with keyboard and cassette interface. I've still got a spare TI99 keyboard sitting in my spare part box. Just a minute; off the keyboard to build a Palladium Keyboard. Anyone to write UVI BASIC, please? -mc 1302 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:10pm Subject: Re: Macross and Gundam has arrived! axtelius2001 citerar Russ Perry Jr : > >Just spoke to my friend and they arrived today. > >I have uploaded the 3 pictures he emailed me to: > >Files > Photos_and_scans > Box_artwork > > Hey, I didn't know you knew RL! He sent me the same pic... Small world! He lives 10 (swedish) miles from me, about 1 hour with car. And yes, the videogames collecting world is a small world. The carts are for sale if anyone is interested, email me and ill give you the email addy to the seller. /frax 1303 From: "mc71de " Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 6:19pm Subject: Re: Macross and Gundam has arrived! mc71de Hi Fredrik, when you are dumping the carts, please keep in mind that some Arcadia consoles have address line A14 on the cart slot at pin 21, this one is missing in Ward's FAQ, since not all machines have it. It's the middle pin of three normally unused. I cannot tell if Bandai's Arcadia consoles had the pin connected, or if any cart ever made use of it (except from Golf, that is, and Video Lexikon). But it might be worth looking into that area. Just my .02 EUR... -mc 1304 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:10pm Subject: Re: Re: Macross and Gundam has arrived! axtelius2001 Thanks for the tip, ill look into that when dumping the cart. Im sure the owner doesn't mind if I crack the cart open ;) /frax citerar "mc71de " : > Hi Fredrik, > > when you are dumping the carts, please keep in mind that some > Arcadia consoles have address line A14 on the cart slot at pin 21, > this one is missing in Ward's FAQ, since not all machines have it. > It's the middle pin of three normally unused. > > I cannot tell if Bandai's Arcadia consoles had the pin connected, or > if any cart ever made use of it (except from Golf, that is, and > Video Lexikon). But it might be worth looking into that area. > > Just my .02 EUR... > > -mc > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- -> > Turn flat surfaces into speakers with the Soundbug. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/QWAVSC/onCFAA/xGHJAA/hWFolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1305 From: "oboissea " Date: Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:36pm Subject: Re: Macross and Gundam has arrived! oboissea > > Hey, I didn't know you knew RL! He sent me the same pic... Small > world! Very small world... He sent me the same pix this week too ;-) Rikard has a large contact network in fact... I think it's a key-person in our microcosm, though he is not well known at all... Scott > Could you send me a nice picture of the Sheen console please at olivier@... ? Thanks 1308 From: Michael Davidson Date: Sat Jan 11, 2003 7:59pm Subject: Re: re:Subject: Derek Andrews interview kiwigame >Message: 7 >Date: Thu, 09 Jan 2003 05:45:25 -0000 > From: "mc71de " >Subject: Re: re:Subject: Derek Andrews interview >And for Michael: > >- What chips are there inside the Star chess console? Something >recognizable, or totally weird stuff? > >just curious... Well I hope I can satisfy your curiosity. I have an open StarChess console here in front of me: Its a really nicely put together console (high quality of assembly) & its interesting to speculate why so many custom chips were used. (anti-piracy measure?) Major Chips: Motorola SC80801P (can't find a ref. to this anywhere - anyone ID it?) (it appears SC prefixes on Motorola chips are house numbers for custom chips) Motorola MC6808P (RAM less low cost version of 6802) Motorola MCM6810P (128 x 8 RAM) This combination was used by Williams for the SoundBoards used in both Pinball & Arcade games (sounds for the Defender/Joust/StarGate family of games) Chip Labelled ULA = Ferranti ZNA 2H072E. Nasty "Uncommitted Logic Array" thats likely to be a custom part. (Like a primitive GAL/PAL) (Sinclair used Ferranti Custom ULA Chips in Spectrums / ZX81 etc (uncopyable) No visible ROMs of any sort... Chip dates are all '78/'79 Cheers Mike Michael Davidson Auckland, New Zealand 1309 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 4:50am Subject: golf a13 patch beta 1; testers searched grumpfix Hello, Below you'll find the first working version of golf patch for a13 (for some incomplete arcadia style consoles). It should be complete (90% sure). Is somebody interested in testing it? (playing through, with MESS error logging activated --> should not contain any unmapped memory access at $4xxx) (in gamguide.txt in the file area you can find a key description; it's not difficult to play golf) Peter crc32 of golf_a13.bin 0xf9757bde; size 0x1800 --- ../../mess/mess/mess/systems/arcadia.cpp Mon Dec 30 19:30:01 2002 +++ mess/systems/arcadia.cpp Wed Jan 8 10:01:15 2003 @@ -337,17 +368,32 @@ { 0x03be,0x40,0x20 }, { 0x04ce,0x40,0x20 }, { 0x04da,0x40,0x20 }, + { 0x0562,0x42,0x22 }, { 0x0617,0x40,0x20 }, + { 0x0822,0x40,0x20 }, + { 0x095e,0x42,0x22 }, + { 0x09d3,0x42,0x22 }, + { 0x0bb0,0x42,0x22 }, { 0x0efb,0x40,0x20 }, + { 0x0ec1,0x43,0x23 }, { 0x0f00,0x40,0x20 }, - { 0x0f12,0x40,0x20 } + { 0x0f12,0x40,0x20 }, + { 0x0ff5,0x43,0x23 }, + { 0x0ff7,0x41,0x21 }, + { 0x0ff9,0x40,0x20 }, + { 0x0ffb,0x41,0x21 }, + { 0x20ec,0x42,0x22 } }; for (int i=0; i Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:27pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview slapdash26 At 7:07 AM +0000 1/8/03, mc71de wrote: > Russ Perry Jr wrote: >> Don't know whatever happened to CyberYogi though. >Currently he considers data reduced misic (as in .mp3 files) a >potential danger for the health of your ears... causing tinnitus and >stuff. Personally, i don't think i see the world the same way he >does. > >But has anyone carefully read the story about his flea market find >of a nearly complete VC4000 collection? Seems to claim he has a copy >of the as-of-yet unknown Interton #35 cart. Who wants to travel to >Hamburg and get it dumped, please? Given what Hans-Heinz & Dieter say, well I'd sure like to see it dumped. Are you actually in contact with him now, or at least recently? I'd love to at least see if he can come up with a scan... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1311 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 3:29pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview slapdash26 At 8:52 AM +0000 1/8/03, oboissea wrote: >>> http://www.old-computers.com/magazine/view.asp?r=6&a=15 >> a shame he didn't have more names to look up. >Well in fact he gave me the email of his former boss at Voltmace! So >I'm preparing another interview as this guy will surely know more >about licencing and stuffs... Ah, groovy! >Same question: if you want me to ask him specific questions, send >them to me or post them here. I'd like to know if there's a more direct connection between the Interton/Acetronic systems and the Arcadia/MPT-03 type systems, so see what he knows there. Other than that, the usual... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1312 From: "mc71de " Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 5:20pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview mc71de Hi folks, --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > >I'm preparing another interview as this guy will surely know more > >about licencing and stuffs... > > Ah, groovy! According to what i heard recently, and what the 2650 Users manual said, Signetics (and so it's mother company Philips) had a library of 2650 programs, and encouraged users to send in non-proprietary code to share with other users. I think under these circumstances we can safely assume that all the games common to several or all consoles of the 2636-PVI-line (VC4000, Voltmace,...) just 'came from Philips'. The more interesting question would be: did companies actually give programs they had written themselves back to philips? But as far as the tapes for the Elektor TV Spielcomputer are concerned: they seem to be (at least many of them) pirate copies of Interton cartridges, moved up in memory to suit the needs of that machine. And unless we can come up wih some of the responsibles of HoCoSoft, who could confirm the tape variants were supplied by Philips directly, i have no doubt about this 'pirating' theory. Especially since the HOCOSOFT ads vanished from Elektor, all of a sudden, after the list was published of which i put a scan in the files section. > I'd like to know if there's a more direct connection between the > Interton/Acetronic systems and the Arcadia/MPT-03 type systems, I somewhat think we are hunting the red herring here. Both systems were developed by Signetics/Philips, and both had a 'basic library of games', also provided by Philips. Mostly for demonstration purposes, but maybe also as what we would call 'OEM system' today: Buy chips, games, and schematics at one place; then get a case and sell a video game without much own knowledge and such. And don't forget: Most of the 'manufacturers' were in that business back at the 'Pong-on-a-chip' days. The 'usual suspects', so to say. BTW: We know MPT-02 (a Studio2 clone) and MPT-03 (the Arcadia variant). One single company even had a MPT-05 as a VC4000 clone. If my memory serves me well, MPT-01 was used for a 'Pong chip on exchangeable carts' system (?), but did the 'MPT-using crowd' ever make something called an 'MPT-04'? Just curious... -mc 1313 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 6:43pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview slapdash26 At 6:20 AM +0000 1/12/03, mc71de wrote: > According to what i heard recently, and what the 2650 Users manual > said, Signetics (and so it's mother company Philips) had a library > of 2650 programs, and encouraged users to send in non-proprietary > code to share with other users. I think under these circumstances > we can safely assume that all the games common to several or all > consoles of the 2636-PVI-line (VC4000, Voltmace,...) just 'came > from Philips'. I don't feel comfortable assuming this... I think we need to leave that as an unanswered question. If we assume that, we won't ask the contacts we have, and we'll never find out the truth for sure. > The more interesting question would be: did companies actually > give programs they had written themselves back to philips? Yeah, that IS a good question... >> I'd like to know if there's a more direct connection between the >> Interton/Acetronic systems and the Arcadia/MPT-03 type systems, > I somewhat think we are hunting the red herring here. Both systems > were developed by Signetics/Philips, and both had a 'basic library > of games', also provided by Philips. Mostly for demonstration > purposes, but maybe also as what we would call 'OEM system' today: > Buy chips, games, and schematics at one place; then get a case and > sell a video game without much own knowledge and such. I wouldn't call it a red herring -- and asking may prove that one way or the other. > BTW: We know MPT-02 (a Studio2 clone) and MPT-03 (the Arcadia > variant). One single company even had a MPT-05 as a VC4000 clone. > If my memory serves me well, MPT-01 was used for a 'Pong chip on > exchangeable carts' system (?), but did the 'MPT-using crowd' ever > make something called an 'MPT-04'? I've never actually seen the MPT-01 designation for the "pong-on-a- chip-on-a-cartridge" systems, though that's kind of how I've thought of them. The MPT-05 seems to be a big anomaly really; I've never seen an MPT-04, and in fact, I can't think of what would be the equivalent anyway. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1314 From: "oboissea " Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 8:51pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview oboissea > > BTW: We know MPT-02 (a Studio2 clone) and MPT-03 (the Arcadia > > variant). One single company even had a MPT-05 as a VC4000 clone. > > If my memory serves me well, MPT-01 was used for a 'Pong chip on > > exchangeable carts' system (?), but did the 'MPT-using crowd' ever > > make something called an 'MPT-04'? > > I've never actually seen the MPT-01 designation for the "pong-on-a- > chip-on-a-cartridge" systems, though that's kind of how I've thought > of them. The MPT-05 seems to be a big anomaly really; I've never > seen an MPT-04, and in fact, I can't think of what would be the > equivalent anyway. Ha ha. I have the answer here! :-) The MPT-04 exists, it's an "Interton type system"... My Rowtron Television Computer System has "MPT-04" labeled on its motherboard. I once said this here, but hey, so many thing were said... I will upload the motherboard in the file section soon, but I have big problems with my computer and I think I must re-install everything today. So maybe you won't hear from for 2 or 3 days... :( So MPT-04 and MPT-05 are "Interton software compatible systems"... I would be very interested finding the MPT-01 system indeed... My big question is what mean these letters? And who decided this code? 1316 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 9:59pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Russ Perry Jr wrote: > Given what Hans-Heinz & Dieter say, well I'd sure like to see it > dumped. Are you actually in contact with him now, or at least > recently? I'd love to at least see if he can come up with a scan... I really hope that someone can get in contact with him. I contacted him last April or so when I was doing research for my Interton section in the DPCG7. He responded that he has all the games in a box somewhere and he hasn't the time to look for it. But he would contact me as soon as he has the time. I contacted him again last fall but never got any response. So still I doubt the existence of #35, would really be a big surprise if it would exist. Would be great to see scans then ... :) 1317 From: "mc71de " Date: Sun Jan 12, 2003 10:59pm Subject: To the moderators... mc71de As new group member britneyy(large number) has revealed its only purpose to be pestering the links area with spam, i'd vote for excluding it from the list. Thanks. -mc 1318 From: "hanhein " Date: Mon Jan 13, 2003 3:28am Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 6:20 AM +0000 1/12/03, mc71de wrote: > > According to what i heard recently, and what the 2650 Users manual > > said, Signetics (and so it's mother company Philips) had a library > > of 2650 programs, and encouraged users to send in non-proprietary > > code to share with other users. I think under these circumstances > > we can safely assume that all the games common to several or all > > consoles of the 2636-PVI-line (VC4000, Voltmace,...) just 'came > > from Philips'. > > I don't feel comfortable assuming this... I think we need to leave > that as an unanswered question. If we assume that, we won't ask the > contacts we have, and we'll never find out the truth for sure. > > > The more interesting question would be: did companies actually > > give programs they had written themselves back to philips? > > Yeah, that IS a good question... > > >> I'd like to know if there's a more direct connection between the > >> Interton/Acetronic systems and the Arcadia/MPT-03 type systems, > > > I somewhat think we are hunting the red herring here. Both systems > > were developed by Signetics/Philips, and both had a 'basic library > > of games', also provided by Philips. Mostly for demonstration > > purposes, but maybe also as what we would call 'OEM system' today: > > Buy chips, games, and schematics at one place; then get a case and > > sell a video game without much own knowledge and such. > > I wouldn't call it a red herring -- and asking may prove that one > way or the other. > > > BTW: We know MPT-02 (a Studio2 clone) and MPT-03 (the Arcadia > > variant). One single company even had a MPT-05 as a VC4000 clone. > > If my memory serves me well, MPT-01 was used for a 'Pong chip on > > exchangeable carts' system (?), but did the 'MPT-using crowd' ever > > make something called an 'MPT-04'? > > I've never actually seen the MPT-01 designation for the "pong-on-a- > chip-on-a-cartridge" systems, though that's kind of how I've thought > of them. The MPT-05 seems to be a big anomaly really; I've never > seen an MPT-04, and in fact, I can't think of what would be the > equivalent anyway. > -- > //*================================================================+ + > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@e... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// 1319 From: "hanhein " Date: Mon Jan 13, 2003 3:40am Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Russ Perry Jr wrote: > At 6:20 AM +0000 1/12/03, mc71de wrote: > > According to what i heard recently, and what the 2650 Users manual > > said, Signetics (and so it's mother company Philips) had a library > > of 2650 programs, and encouraged users to send in non-proprietary > > code to share with other users. I think under these circumstances > > we can safely assume that all the games common to several or all > > consoles of the 2636-PVI-line (VC4000, Voltmace,...) just 'came > > from Philips'. > > I don't feel comfortable assuming this... I think we need to leave > that as an unanswered question. If we assume that, we won't ask the > contacts we have, and we'll never find out the truth for sure. > > > The more interesting question would be: did companies actually > > give programs they had written themselves back to philips? > > Yeah, that IS a good question... > > >> I'd like to know if there's a more direct connection between the > >> Interton/Acetronic systems and the Arcadia/MPT-03 type systems, > > > I somewhat think we are hunting the red herring here. Both systems > > were developed by Signetics/Philips, and both had a 'basic library > > of games', also provided by Philips. Mostly for demonstration > > purposes, but maybe also as what we would call 'OEM system' today: > > Buy chips, games, and schematics at one place; then get a case and > > sell a video game without much own knowledge and such. That is right. The games helped selling the chips and schematics. Interton itself didn`t have programmers to develop new games. But they had external programmers who did that for them. There are only a few games that were not developed by phillips. Motocross, Space Laser, Hangman, Cockpit, Basketball, Bowling are the ones that I know. -hhb 1320 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Jan 13, 2003 2:08pm Subject: Re: To the moderators... slapdash26 At 11:59 AM +0000 1/12/03, mc71de wrote: >As new group member britneyy(large number) has revealed its only >purpose to be pestering the links area with spam, i'd vote for >excluding it from the list. Thanks. Done, and I deleted the spam link too. Let me know if there is more crap out there... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1321 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Mon Jan 13, 2003 4:51pm Subject: Re: Cart IDs? amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "clubninja2001 " wrote: > Hey there - > > I've been enjoying the Arcadia for a while now, and just got into > some of the more obscure foreign stuff (I'm in the US.) Anyway, I > received a Sheen console in the mail today with two carts. They are > Auto Race and Baseball, but apparently different companies. I've > included a link to a picture of them. Could anyone provide a little > more info on these? Thanks much! > > Scott > > http://www.gis.net/~bertulli/sheencarts.jpg gamguide.txt has information about how to play these. I would be interested to know your high scores... :-) However Baseball is only 2- player... :-( 1322 From: "mc71de " Date: Tue Jan 14, 2003 0:27am Subject: New members; was:Re: To the moderators... mc71de Hi Russ, --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > Done, and I deleted the spam link too. Let me know if there is > more crap out there... Thank you, and sorry if i sounded somewhat upset. But i had just promised to 'keep the board in nice fashion', even if the board owner isn't around anymore, when i saw all that nonsense. And no, at the moment i don't see any crap here. But i checked the members list, and spotted the new member #40. Sounds promising... ;) And i also asked the seller of my Elektor TV Spielcomputer about the history of his machine. Maybe he will join us; if not, i'll ask him for permission and tell you more. No, he is not Andrew Choi :)) -mc 1323 From: slapdash@... Date: Tue Jan 14, 2003 2:39am Subject: Re: New members; was:Re: To the moderators... slapdash26 Quoting "mc71de " : > And i also asked the seller of my Elektor TV Spielcomputer about the > history of his machine. Maybe he will join us; if not, i'll ask him > for permission and tell you more. No, he is not Andrew Choi :)) Hm, got my curiosity up though... Russ ------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ 1324 From: "hanhein " Date: Tue Jan 14, 2003 5:46am Subject: Interton Hangman hanhein Hi all, I was given the permission to release the Hangman listing from PJ Dickers. As I was told the interton version is nearly the same and based on his code. Interton released that version without the permission of the real author!!! I will put the listing online tomorrow. I hope it is readable. Its not easy to detect if it is a B or a 8 in the listing. The listing gives a good example how to programm the 2650 and the PVI. Lets check, if the code really is the same. -HHB 1325 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Jan 15, 2003 4:24pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview slapdash26 At 9:51 AM +0000 1/12/03, oboissea wrote: > The MPT-04 exists, it's an "Interton type system"... My Rowtron > Television Computer System has "MPT-04" labeled on its motherboard. Ah! Well, that's interesting... But odd, in that the Interton family wasn't as sophisticated as the Arcadia family. In other words, the MPT-03 to MPT-04 isn't a step up, it's a step down, right? Peculiar... > So MPT-04 and MPT-05 are "Interton software compatible systems"... So much for an orderly numbering system! :-) > I would be very interested finding the MPT-01 system indeed... Yeah, me too. But perhaps that's something that never really left the lab. > My big question is what mean these letters? Hmm... "Modern Philips Technology"? :-) > And who decided this code? Yeah, that's a good question... At 4:40 PM +0000 1/12/03, hanhein wrote: > Interton itself didn`t have programmers to develop new games. But > they had external programmers who did that for them. There are only > a few games that were not developed by phillips. Ah, my apologies... I guess I assumed that they would have put out demos more often than full games. > Motocross, Space Laser, Hangman, Cockpit, Basketball, Bowling are > the ones that I know. How many programmers is that? You & one other, two others, ...? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1326 From: "hanhein " Date: Wed Jan 15, 2003 7:23pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview hanhein > Ah, my apologies... I guess I assumed that they would have put out > demos more often than full games. > > > Motocross, Space Laser, Hangman, Cockpit, Basketball, Bowling are > > the ones that I know. > > How many programmers is that? You & one other, two others, ...? > -- These games above were developed by 4 different programmers. -hhb 1327 From: "hanhein " Date: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:15pm Subject: Hangman Listing hanhein Hi all, here is the promised original Hangman listing from P.J. Dickers. We have the permission to publish it. Commercial selling is not allowed. The Interton VC4000 Hangman / Metropolis seems to be a hacked version of this game. Perhaps someone can proove if this is true. According to the author, the game suffers from only 90 words which can be guessed. He developed a better version with more words, but this version would have needed a bigger rom, which was much more expensive in those days. There is a TV Spielcomputer of this version which uses more words and which has different word-modules which can be loaded separately. -> It should be possible to patch the original version which these extra modules. This listing helps to understand how to programm the VC4000. It uses vblank routines and has a routine for playing music. Unfortunately its in german. Here is the link: www.gebrauchtwagen.to/misc/hangman.zip The file has 2,3 Mb in size. -HHB 1328 From: "hanhein " Date: Wed Jan 15, 2003 10:33pm Subject: How about making a homebrew VC4000 Cartridge? hanhein Programming the VC400 isn`t that difficult. We need a Cartridge with EEprom oder battery buffered ram and a PC interface to program this Chip. Programming could be done by a simple editor or a special programm that allows edititing each adress. Is there anyone who can develop such a cartridge? -HHB 1329 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Wed Jan 15, 2003 11:14pm Subject: Re: How about making a homebrew VC4000 Cartridge? axtelius2001 Designing a special cart sounds like overkill when a normal EPROM emu will work just fine. Im currently coding an Arcadia game using a standard game cart with the ROM removed and an EPROM emulator attached to my PC. /frax citerar "hanhein " : > Programming the VC400 isn`t that difficult. We need a Cartridge with > EEprom oder battery buffered ram and a PC interface to program this > Chip. Programming could be done by a simple editor or a special > programm that allows edititing each adress. > > Is there anyone who can develop such a cartridge? > > -HHB > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~- -> > Flexible Keyboard is the ideal accessory for PDA users that are on the > move. > http://us.click.yahoo.com/dCBVZC/WnCFAA/sXBHAA/hWFolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- ~-> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1330 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 0:18am Subject: Re: How about making a homebrew VC4000 Cartridge? mc71de Hi Fredrik, --- "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > Designing a special cart sounds like overkill when a > normal EPROM emu will work just fine. ...if you have such a device, that is. /me doesn't. and that little bit of interfacing ligic is not that complicated. > Im currently coding an Arcadia game using a standard > game cart with the ROM removed and an EPROM emulator > attached to my PC. My idea (prototype): desolder ROM from cartridge, replace with socket, rework connections (easy, Interton carts are single-sided PCBs) and put in either an Eprom, or a RAM with an Eprom piggy- packed (=Elektor-like memory layout). When this works as wanted, add the tape io circuit (and feed with .wav files, played on computer) on a bit of perf board. Alternatively, add some TTL logic to connect to PC printer port (and rewrite tape io routines of Elektor BIOS, write a simple io program for pc) Tape circuitry easier (no programming) and more versatile (every OS can play .wavs). When wav files are 'cleaned up', they don't take too much space, at least by today's standards... and in theory, you could even make an audio CD. > /frax > > citerar "hanhein " : > > > We need a Cartridge with EEprom oder battery buffered > > ram and a PC interface to program this Chip. Neat idea: Use a SmartMedia card. IIRC, these are just a (flash) rom with different 'pins', thus look to the computer as the old-style ROMs did. So an 'Interface' would just be an adapter, no electronics. Anybody know a source of SM-Card sockets? > > Programming could be done by a simple editor or a special > > programm that allows edititing each adress. Look at the Files section of the Yahoo group... assembler, disassembler, a tutorial how to feed the disassembler's output into the assembler... and if someone would and could take the challenge to work on the MESS vc4000 driver, we even had an online debugger with tons of nifty features. > > Is there anyone who can develop such a cartridge? Almost sitting on my desk. -mc 1331 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 0:58am Subject: Re: How about making a homebrew VC4000 Cartridge? mc71de Update: I wrote: > Neat idea: Use a SmartMedia card. IIRC, these are just a > (flash) rom with different 'pins', thus look to the computer > as the old-style ROMs did. So an 'Interface' would just be > an adapter, no electronics. ...just before i read http://www.steves- digicams.com/flash_memory.html#sm Seems my info on SD cards is not all that up to date. One should check wether 3.3V SD cards are 5V compatible. I had seen an SD card as ZX Spectrum ROM-Disk 1..2 years back. Seems to be ages and aeons in today's electronics. -mc 1332 From: "hanhein " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 1:51am Subject: Re: How about making a homebrew VC4000 Cartridge? hanhein Hi mc, > Neat idea: Use a SmartMedia card. IIRC, these are just a > (flash) rom with different 'pins', thus look to the computer > as the old-style ROMs did. So an 'Interface' would just be > an adapter, no electronics. > > Anybody know a source of SM-Card sockets? > Great idea, mc. But smartmedia cards need a different voltage, isn`t it? I think the sockets are no problem. I`ll ask my electronic dealer. Using the TV-Spielcomputer-cassetteinterface is possible, but not good. Why should we wait 2 Minutes for a 2 Kb file? > > Look at the Files section of the Yahoo group... > assembler, disassembler, a tutorial how to feed > the disassembler's output into the assembler... I will take a look at it. > and if someone would and could take the challenge > to work on the MESS vc4000 driver, we even had an > online debugger with tons of nifty features. That would be great, but I fear that the timing would not be exactly the same. So it may be that a game works on the emulator, but doesn't behave the same way on the rom-Cartridge. -HHB 1333 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 7:31am Subject: Re: How about making a homebrew VC4000 Cartridge? amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > Designing a special cart sounds like overkill when a normal EPROM emu > will work just fine. > > Im currently coding an Arcadia game using a standard game cart with the > ROM removed and an EPROM emulator attached to my PC. > > /frax This sounds like the hard way to do it...? Wouldn't it be slightly easier to develop with VACS and test with MESS? When finished it could be burned to a multicart and tested on the real thing. I'm also interested to know more about your game...ie. what sort of game is it, etc. 1334 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 7:30pm Subject: Re: How about making a homebrew VC4000 Cartridge? mc71de Hi James, --- "amigansoftware " wrote: > This sounds like the hard way to do it...? Wouldn't it be slightly > easier to develop with VACS and test with MESS? When finished it > could be burned to a multicart and tested on the real thing. If you already have an Eprom emulator, it doesn't really matter. OTOH, MESS in it's current state still has too many differences to be a good developement system. It's useful to detect serious errors or total crashes, but developing for MESS and getting it to run on the Real Thing could easily double the work. And writing a binary into an Eprom emulator (which in turn stays connected to the console) is just the same ammount of work as loading the binary into MESS. > I'm also interested to know more about your game... > ie. what sort of game is it, etc. Always curious, aren't you? :) If i may throw in an idea, i think the overall goal should be to find the Mystic Twentyeight Kilobyte, and the player should pick up Good Cartridges, and avoid Bad Cartridges on his way... just a thought ;) And in later levels, there would be Good Cartridges that had already been collected, and so won't score anymore. OK, i'll stop it here... -mc 1335 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 7:48pm Subject: Star Chess console; was:Re:Derek Andrews interview mc71de Hi Michael, --- Michael Davidson wrote: > Well I hope I can satisfy your curiosity. > Major Chips: > > Motorola SC80801P Hmmm... could this be a ROM? (even if it had 40pins, there were some combined ROM and io chips around... mos6530 and intel 8155 (or something like that). > Motorola MC6808P (RAM less low cost version of 6802) > Motorola MCM6810P (128 x 8 RAM) Yep.. nice. Now we only need a 6808 simulator to read the ROM; cost starting somewhere $5000 and way up. I leave it up to your imagination *what* sort of dollar this is... > Chip Labelled ULA = Ferranti ZNA 2H072E. > Nasty "Uncommitted Logic Array" thats likely > to be a custom part. Yes, these are custom. > (Like a primitive GAL/PAL) Well, a bit ULA's are for PAL's what mask ROMs are for EPROMs. They have a given set of logic elements, and only the interconnections are custom defined. This allows to have tested 'masks' for the chip production process, and only the very last one or two (that make the connections) are unique to a specific chip. Increases reliability, decreases time and cost. A better equivalent to ULAs in today's world would be FPGAs (especially in larger ULAs, the functions are more complex than what a GAL can do) > (Sinclair used Ferranti Custom ULA Chips in Spectrums / ZX81 etc ...and they died from only looking at them, sometimes :(( > (uncopyable) Well... the Sinclair computers have been reverse engineered, and for the ZX81 ULA, there is even a plug-in replacement. > No visible ROMs of any sort... Chip dates are all '78/'79 Thanks you took the time. Seems to be a strange thing... -mc 1336 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:10pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview mc71de Hi Russ, --- In Russ Perry Jr wrote: [I claimed 'all games came from philips', at least from the companies' point of view] > I don't feel comfortable assuming this... Now, i did my homework, and just claim the opposite ;) RReading Dieter's list of VC4000 and compatibles games at www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/, i found something interesting: Motocross (of which we happen to know the programmer) was also released for the Radofin/Hanimex/Prinztronic (Dieter's 'group 2') as 'hang on'. And guess what? HHB had not sold his game to them! So the question arises: is that indeed the same game, and if so, what route did it take? 'copied' from an Interton cart, 'adapted' from the tape version, or 'sold' during the Interton bankruptcy? Speaking of the later: HHB remembers the bankruptcy to have happened in early 1981. But one of my VC4000 consoles was manufactured in mid- 1982(!) So what gives? We know Interton is still alive and kickin' (and even entering the U.S. market right now) as a hearing aid producer. Maybe Interton Electronic was only a sub-company, and the 'mother' bought the left-overs of the 'daughter', and went on as if nothing had happened? Strange and weird, as always... > I've never actually seen the MPT-01 designation Thinking it over, probably there was never an MPT-01? I mean, the - 02 was a Studio-*2* clone... > The MPT-05 seems to be a big anomaly really; At least, it uses the 'MPT-style' case... > I've never seen an MPT-04 As we have seen one by now, it looks ugly. (Just my taste...) Strange enough that they chose another number for the -05 and not called it -04 too. -mc 1337 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:20pm Subject: New members; was:Re: To the moderators... mc71de Hi Russ, --- slapdash@e... wrote: > Quoting "mc71de " : > > And i also asked the seller of my Elektor TV > > Spielcomputer about the history of his machine. > > Maybe he will join us; if not, i'll ask him for > > permission and tell you more. > > No, he is not Andrew Choi :)) > > Hm, got my curiosity up though... > > Russ Well, i should not post when i didn't get enough sleep... in fact, there is no story to tell. He bought the system, and played the Elektor games, but never got around to actually program for it. As time went by, the control pads were dismantled, and now he sold the main boards (but is happy to hear that the system will have a 'second spring' instead of collecting dust in some collector's basement). Sorry if i made someone think i had accidentally located one of the secret Philips' programmers, or such. -mc 1338 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:36pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > Maybe Interton Electronic was only a sub-company, and the 'mother' > bought the left-overs of the 'daughter', and went on as if nothing > had happened? Strange and weird, as always... I am pretty sure that Interton Electronic was a daughter of "Interton Hoergeraete". Many people were wondering "I thought that Interton went bankrupt back then, but they are still here today". Would be logical - The daughter Interton Electronic went bankrupt, but the mother company Interton Hoergeraete still exists ... 1339 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 8:50pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview mc71de Hi all, --- Russ Perry Jr wrote: > the MPT-03 to MPT-04 isn't a step up, it's a step down, > right? Peculiar... Maybe 'they' never really considered to take the PVI option? Or (if the MPT-04 came before any MPT-03) the -04 was 'borrowed' from Interton's VC*4*000? > > I would be very interested finding the MPT-01 system indeed... > > Yeah, me too. As said a few minutes earlier: I doubt it was ever considered to be used. MPT-02 after the Studio-2, and counting up. > > My big question is what mean these letters? > > Hmm... "Modern Philips Technology"? :-) Was RCA (Studio2 and MPT-02 chipset!) a Philips company? Maybe 'Micro Processor Tv game' or something. Or nothi g at all, as with MMX, which Intel had a hard time to tell people it's not an abbreviation of 'MultiMedia eXtension'... (because an abbreviation could not have been registered as trademark, iirc) > > And who decided this code? > > Yeah, that's a good question... 'They'? IMHO, to really dig up who was 'they', we had not only to look at the 70s 'pong' systems, but maybe back to the 20s or 30s, when the first 'mass produced' electronics appeared, and 'producers' and 'retailers' established. (if anyone understood what i mean...) > > There are only a few games that were not developed by phillips. > > Ah, my apologies... I guess I assumed that they would have > put out demos more often than full games. Well... looking e.g. at Interton cart #3 'paddle games', i leave it up to the interested reader to decide if that is a neat demo or coding example, or qualifies for a full-featured game. Unless we 'break into' the secret dungeons of Philips/Signetics, we will never know what the real intention was (coding 'a few' examples to show what can be done, or supplying the happy customer with a full-grown library to go with the chips). I doubt we will ever get there (even if we found that mysterious Andrew Choi), but when UA LTD appeared, the second approach seems to have been followed. (Sell complete systems with games library to small 'el cheapo' companies like Schmid, Hanimex, Emerson...) If i got the picture right, the only company that had non-UA games was Bandai? Not counting the 'early' UVI systems (Palladium), but even with these there is some evidence that they came from the same 'stable'... -mc 1340 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 16, 2003 9:03pm Subject: Motocross and Head On mc71de Of course it's 'Head On' and not 'Hang On'- sorry! Viewed Dieter's list with too small size adjustment. -mc 1341 From: "hanhein " Date: Fri Jan 17, 2003 8:08am Subject: Interton Programmers hanhein Hi Russ, here are the names (as far as I know): Basketball, Cockpit, Pinball: Martin Greiner Hangman: Paul J?rgen Dickers Bowling: unknown german programming team -HHB But the best 2650 & PVI games were made for the TV-Spielcomputer like P. Holmes` Knight & Dungeon game. The Rom games suffered from too small memory and didn`t have the Sound effects like Holmes` wedding march. -HHB 1342 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Jan 17, 2003 3:52pm Subject: Re: Hangman Listing slapdash26 At 10:15 AM +0000 1/15/03, hanhein wrote: > here is the promised original Hangman listing from P.J. Dickers. We > have the permission to publish it. Okay, is anyone game to help type this in? Maybe if we each take a page, and some of our German members can help with the comments... If so though, what format should we be saving it in? I mean, type in even the numbers at the beginning? I imagine so, but want to check. > The Interton VC4000 Hangman / Metropolis seems to be a hacked version > of this game. Perhaps someone can proove if this is true. Thomas Jentzsch (wrote the 2600 version of Thrust) has a ROM comparer program he wrote called CloneSpy. It was written to compare 2600 games, but will work on others too. Once we have a binary of this version, we can have him compare them. > According to the author, the game suffers from only 90 words which > can be guessed. He developed a better version with more words, but > this version would have needed a bigger rom, which was much more > expensive in those days. That's not a problem now... Does he have that version too? > There is a TV Spielcomputer of this version which uses more words and > which has different word-modules which can be loaded separately. Or this one? > It should be possible to patch the original version which these > extra modules. Ah, that would be cool. Ha ha, we could make a Hangman multicart! > This listing helps to understand how to programm the VC4000. It uses > vblank routines and has a routine for playing music. Unfortunately > its in german. We could maybe work on translating it once it's transcribed... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1343 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:15pm Subject: Re: Interton Programmers slapdash26 At 9:08 PM +0000 1/16/03, hanhein wrote: >Basketball, Cockpit, Pinball: Martin Greiner >Hangman: Paul J?rgen Dickers >Bowling: unknown german programming team Ah, I obviously can't count... Guess Martin beat you by one then... >But the best 2650 & PVI games were made for the TV-Spielcomputer like >P. Holmes` Knight & Dungeon game. The Rom games suffered from too >small memory and didn`t have the Sound effects like Holmes` wedding >march. Shame abou that... It would be neat to see them eventually, but I don't think I'll ever actually have a TV-Spielcomputer myself. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1344 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Jan 17, 2003 5:26pm Subject: Re: Derek Andrews interview slapdash26 "mc71de " wrote: > Reading Dieter's list of VC4000 and compatibles games at > http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/, i found something > interesting: Motocross was also released for the Radofin/ > Hanimex/Prinztronic (Dieter's 'group 2') as 'Head On'. > And guess what? HHB had not sold his game to them! Uh oh! Of course, there was that thing about sharing programs back, right? Maybe they stole it in the spirit of that clause. :-) >> I've never actually seen the MPT-01 designation > Thinking it over, probably there was never an MPT-01? > I mean, the -02 was a Studio-*2* clone... I wouldn't read too much into the designations that way... > Strange enough that they chose another number for the > -05 and not called it -04 too. Yeah, a bit. [LATER] > Or (if the MPT-04 came before any MPT-03) the -04 was > 'borrowed' from Interton's VC*4*000? Again, don't read too much into that. Else wouldn't an Arcadia 200*1* clone be the MPT-01? That's too arbitrary. >> "Modern Philips Technology"? > Was RCA (Studio2 and MPT-02 chipset!) a Philips company? Not that I know of. Anyone? > Maybe 'Micro Processor Tv game' or something. That's a much better guess... >> Ah, my apologies... I guess I assumed that they would have >> put out demos more often than full games. > Well... looking e.g. at Interton cart #3 'paddle games', i > leave it up to the interested reader to decide if that is a > neat demo or coding example, or qualifies for a full- > featured game. Heh, I was going to make a joke similar to that, but didn't want to anger anyone... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1345 From: "hanhein " Date: Fri Jan 17, 2003 9:11pm Subject: Re: Interton Programmers hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Russ Perry Jr wrote: > Shame abou that... It would be neat to see them eventually, but > I don't think I'll ever actually have a TV-Spielcomputer myself. Maybe that there will be an emulator in the future. I hope so. -HHB 1346 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 4:23am Subject: circus colors in NTSC console grumpfix Hello, I started implementing correct timing in my emulator. Several games test which video system the console has. Circus for example has a different background color and the playfield is "higher" on a PAL console. Can somebody proove the green background color on a NTSC console? Peter 1347 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 8:47am Subject: Re: circus colors in NTSC console amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Hello, > > I started implementing correct timing in my emulator. > > Several games test which video system the console has. > Circus for example has a different background color and > the playfield is "higher" on a PAL console. Interesting. How is this test done? Presumably some kind of timing measurement? 1348 From: "mc71de " Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:13am Subject: Re: circus colors in NTSC console mc71de Hi James, --- "amigansoftware " wrote: (PAL/NTSC detection) > Interesting. How is this test done? Presumably some kind of timing > measurement? Hint: VRST (vertical reset) is connected to CPU SENSE input pin. -mc (No, i haven't looked at the disassembly yet, as i am still busy getting Golf to work on the Arcadia 'the other way around'. But this is what i would look for.) 1349 From: "mc71de " Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:21am Subject: Re: circus colors in NTSC console mc71de Hi all in PAL land... --- Peter Trauner wrote: > > Can somebody proove the green background color on a NTSC console? > In addition to that: could PAL console owners report their 'circus' background colors, together with their console model? I suspect some difference in FLAG usage, which affects the overall color output. As of now, i suspect circus to be affected from this... or has one of the 'real' collectors out there seen any other game having different colors on different consoles? Either both consoles PAL (which is what i am after) or one PAL, other NTSC (which is what PeT is interested in)? Please don't leave us alone :) -mc 1350 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 7:38pm Subject: Re: Re: circus colors in NTSC console grumpfix amigansoftware wrote: >>Several games test which video system the console has. >>Circus for example has a different background color and >>the playfield is "higher" on a PAL console. >> >> > >Interesting. How is this test done? Presumably some kind of timing >measurement? > > I have some infos about the usg2621/usg2622 chips. I watched the behaviour of my palladium vcg console. Circus and horse racing (vertical position of the text screen only?) are "counting" the sense/vrst true level duration select between 2 alternativs. Implementing the vrst timing for these 2 variants gave following pictures: (note the emulation displays only the area where sprites or tilemap could be and not the "background only" frame above and under this area; verified for PAL; but not yet for NTSC) Peter Attachment: (image/png) vcg.png [not stored] Attachment: (image/png) arcadia.png [not stored] 1351 From: "hanhein " Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 9:05pm Subject: Re: circus colors in NTSC console hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Circus and horse racing (vertical position of the text screen only?) are > "counting" the > sense/vrst true level duration select between 2 alternativs. > > Implementing the vrst timing for these 2 variants gave following pictures: > (note the emulation displays only the area where sprites or tilemap > could be and not the "background only" frame above and under > this area; verified for PAL; but not yet for NTSC) > On the Vc400 we used delay loops to skip scanlines and to change the colors during the vblank interrupt. -HHB 1352 From: "mc71de " Date: Sat Jan 18, 2003 11:41pm Subject: Re: circus colors in NTSC console mc71de Hi Peter, --- Peter Trauner wrote: [Circus on Arcadia consoles] > Can somebody proove the green background color on a NTSC console? You remember Ward Shrake on Dec 23 2002, saying: |> --- Peter Trauner wrote: |>> Once it switched during gameplay to white background, |>> blue clowns, ... |>> (I haven't been able to reproduce this) | Which is what it always is, on my multicart ROM image | running on a Leisure-Vision... or at least, that's what | I recall, off-hand? I don't remember ever seeing black | and yellow main colors on that game? And has anyone checked the screen shots at http://www.netspace.net.au/~billlagr/games.html To be more precise: Who has different colors on the Real Thing, both NTSC and PAL? If i am right, we might have no less than four(!) different color output variants :(( NTSC- with FLAG connected to c0, NTSC-without FLAG connected, and the same for PAL. Auxilliary question: does anyone have a broken NTSC console and is willing to donate the 2622 timing chip to the emulation project? -mc 1353 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 6:57pm Subject: Re: Re: circus colors in NTSC console grumpfix hanhein wrote: >On the Vc400 we used delay loops to skip scanlines and to change the >colors during the vblank interrupt. > > Not uvi2637 circus. But space vultures (look below; yellow and red high depends on timing). Even only horicontal poties are read, so the fore- and backgroundcolor are only written once after power up (analog channel selector and these colors are in the same byte). uvi2637 Games make heavily use of the character line counter/state. Or do you mean this is probable a clock measurement? But usg2621/usg2622 need the same clock, and the cpu uses its clock/4 output. pvi2636 emulation will gain a lot of benefits from my uvi2637/usg2621 experience But will invaders work without cycle exact emulation? (tv spielcomputer bios works with graphic glitches due to rasterline based emulation/timing; its waiting for the vertical sync and then simple displaying the sprites 6 times and refreshing their contents). Peter Attachment: (image/png) tvspielc.png [not stored] Attachment: (image/png) vcg.png [not stored] 1354 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:14am Subject: Re: Hangman Listing grumpfix hanhein wrote: >here is the promised original Hangman listing from P.J. Dickers. We >have the permission to publish it. Commercial selling is not allowed. > > Thanks. Is the listing correct? (is it a computer print of a working version?) Is the $5000 hexdump the complete 4kbyte version and should be placed at $0000? Is the $0000 part the program without word database? And the same as the $5000 area? Peter 1355 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 1:23am Subject: Re: How about making a homebrew VC4000 Cartridge? grumpfix hanhein wrote: >Programming the VC400 isn`t that difficult. We need a Cartridge with >EEprom oder battery buffered ram and a PC interface to program this >Chip. Programming could be done by a simple editor or a special >programm that allows edititing each adress. > >Is there anyone who can develop such a cartridge? > What do you search? I can do for you the circuit diagram of my simple 512KByte Flash/1MByte EPROM cartridge (only 1 inverter needed). (am29f040b is relativ easy to get cheap, simple to program (only 5v power supply, timings generated in the chip)) I can draw my multicartridge with eagle for you (picture or eagle file?). (pcb router with schematic drawer; free limited versions for win32 and linux available) Most vc4000 cartridges (except the cartridges with ram like chess2, ...) can be modified easily. If you want to wire wrap it yourself, you can buy proto boards with print contacts at conrad. A single sided board from pcb-pool costs minimum 26Euro (without delivery). PC interface: buying ISA bus or parallel port eprom/flash burner device (or EPROM simulator) (heise c't flasher for PC/XT bus is an easy "do it yourself" - kit and cheap (I don't know for which OS the software is, and if it already supports the am29f040b chip); free LINUX software exists) many homebrew/parallel port reading devices known, relativ easy to adapt Peter PS: cartridge version with sram support (chess2, tv spielcomputer, ... memory mappings) in my developement queue. 1356 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jan 19, 2003 7:07pm Subject: Re: Re: circus colors in NTSC console grumpfix > > >|> --- Peter Trauner wrote: > >|>> Once it switched during gameplay to white background, >|>> blue clowns, ... >|>> (I haven't been able to reproduce this) > >| Which is what it always is, on my multicart ROM image >| running on a Leisure-Vision... or at least, that's what >| I recall, off-hand? I don't remember ever seeing black >| and yellow main colors on that game? > > In my opinion it should have something like magenta background on wards console now. (blue clowns, ...) Accordingly to his faq flag isn't "not connected" in his console. ( I wanted a proove and thought there's a good chance some guys with 1 of these 5 cartridges take a quick look). --> is it needed to add dipswitches to allow "turning off" FLAG line and A14 address line >And has anyone checked the screen shots at >http://www.netspace.net.au/~billlagr/games.html > > Yes. Same as on my console and my emulator now. Peter 1357 From: "Yorx " Date: Tue Jan 21, 2003 10:28am Subject: Just opened my Intelligent Game MPT-03 yorxsikbed hooked it up, and I do not think it is working the way it should be. found at reds in brooklyn, ny and it came in it's original box and everything was still sealed in plastic, but i am not getting the audio for the games and the visuals don't seem to be what they should be. took a bit of time to get games to arrive on screen. can this be a technical problem within the console or can it be that i need to have the console cleaned out and restored? please let me know how to get this system in perfect working order. the joystix are somewhat bizarre but that is a good thing. thank you for your time. 1359 From: "Stefan Piasecki " Date: Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:10pm Subject: Re: Just opened my Intelligent Game MPT-03 stefanpiasecki Is it probably in European PAL-format? I heard of older PAL-consoles that even have difficulties in PAL countries to get the audio out, mainly due to small differences between PAL-systems, for instance in Germany and the UK. But this only applies to TV-sets from the early 80s, newer systems should handle this correctly. Stefan 1360 From: "mc71de " Date: Wed Jan 22, 2003 9:15pm Subject: Re: Just opened my Intelligent Game MPT-03 mc71de Hi all, --- "Stefan Piasecki " wrote: > Is it probably in European PAL-format? Maybe, but not necessarily. > I heard of older PAL-consoles that even have difficulties > in PAL countries to get the audio out, mainly due to small > differences between PAL-systems, for instance in Germany > and the UK. But this only applies to TV-sets from the early > 80s, newer systems should handle this correctly. Are you sure? IIRC that difference in sound subcarrier frequency is not too well handled by modern TV sets. But anyway, it really could be a sound encoder that got 'out of spec' by the time. Only drawback is that oscillator lives inside the madulator case (it should be adjustable through one of the holes), and i have never seen a NTSC modulator myself. So i cannot reliably help here. But the color problems should be fixable by carefully adjusting a small capacitor near a 3.5-something MHz crystal (just remember the original position and start with small movements in one or the other direction). Maybe the console crashes during adjustment- just turn back and press reset. That should help (it works for me, but some concoles have an issue of getting warm and thus the adjustment getting worse again). If there is a potentiometer somewhere, you might try to wiggle it a bit left and right; maybe the wiper has lost contact. Turning it a bit should get it 'in touch' again (even without using contact cleaner) HTH, -mc 1361 From: "Stefan Piasecki " Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 0:05am Subject: Re: Just opened my Intelligent Game MPT-03 stefanpiasecki Say, as you mentioned potentiometers... There are some in the Palladium consoles. Any idea what these might be there for? Stefan 1362 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 6:17am Subject: Rowtron games list updated. dieterk_ccc Some fellow guy from UK helped me out with some (before not listed) Rowtron titles. Check my updated pages at http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_dpg7update.htm and http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_cartlist.htm Cheers, Dieter 1363 From: "hanhein " Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:24am Subject: Re: Hangman Listing hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > hanhein wrote: > > >here is the promised original Hangman listing from P.J. Dickers. We > >have the permission to publish it. Commercial selling is not allowed. > > > > > Thanks. > > Is the listing correct? (is it a computer print of a working version?) > Is the $5000 hexdump the complete 4kbyte version and should be placed at > $0000? > Is the $0000 part the program without word database? And the same as the > $5000 area? Yes, the $0000 part is the programm without word database. I don`t know why the data starts at $5000. I`ve spoke with P.J. Dickers. It seems that he has the original rom, so we perhaps don't need to type the listing. -HHB 1364 From: "hanhein " Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 7:31am Subject: TV Spielcomputer Bios hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > (tv spielcomputer bios works with graphic glitches due to rasterline > based emulation/timing; > its waiting for the vertical sync and then simple displaying the sprites > 6 times and refreshing their contents). > Hey that is looking promising. Would it be it possible to load cassettes via the soundcard input using the TV Spielcomputer bios? I`ve contacted several TV Spielcomputer owners. Noone seems to have a working unit. I want to read my space laser cassette to see if I can rescue the datas. The emulator is my last hope. -HHB 1365 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:22pm Subject: Re: TV Spielcomputer Bios grumpfix hanhein wrote: >>(tv spielcomputer bios works with graphic glitches due to rasterline >>based emulation/timing; >>its waiting for the vertical sync and then simple displaying the >> >> >sprites > > >>6 times and refreshing their contents). >> >> >> >Hey that is looking promising. Would it be it possible to load >cassettes via the soundcard input using the TV Spielcomputer bios? > Direct line in/microfon support not planned. Indeed wav files and generic tapes (stored times until level chances-->a lot smaller) can be loaded via the bios. Support for quickloading is in (writing the decoded program into the memory, adjust monitor "pc" value). I have an external decoder (tapetool) for easy decoding. >I`ve contacted several TV Spielcomputer owners. Noone seems to have a >working unit. I want to read my space laser cassette to see if I can >rescue the datas. The emulator is my last hope. > Current available solutions: * record/digitize in with your PC * lend me your tape and let me do it Peter 1366 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 8:22pm Subject: Re: Hangman Listing grumpfix Russ Perry Jr wrote: >At 10:15 AM +0000 1/15/03, hanhein wrote: > > >>here is the promised original Hangman listing from P.J. Dickers. We >>have the permission to publish it. >> >> > >Okay, is anyone game to help type this in? Maybe if we each take a >page, and some of our German members can help with the comments... >If so though, what format should we be saving it in? I mean, type >in even the numbers at the beginning? I imagine so, but want to >check. > > In the attachment you find the complete program (the $5000 area; quickly typed in), and the short c++ program to convert it to binary. Please compare and fix it (works in my emulation with a lot of glitches; "source" part already compared). >>The Interton VC4000 Hangman / Metropolis seems to be a hacked version >>of this game. Perhaps someone can proove if this is true. >> >> > >Thomas Jentzsch (wrote the 2600 version of Thrust) has a ROM comparer >program he wrote called CloneSpy. It was written to compare 2600 >games, but will work on others too. Once we have a binary of this >version, we can have him compare them. > > Complete different at byte level. Interton version seems to reuse letter selection and sounds. But has different "hanging" graphics and different words (capitel names). Peter 5000-1f01 a2b4 8036 cc1f 0e77 1008 83a4 01cc 5010-1f0f 04aa cc1f c004 09cc 1fc1 cc1f c204 5020-1005 243f 0236 041e cc1f 6c04 08c8 a30e 5030-1f60 0f1f 613b a404 18c8 970e 1f62 0f1f 5040-633b 9804 28c8 8b0e 1f64 0f1f 653b 8c04 5050-48cc 1f6d 0e1f 660f 1f67 3f02 0504 54f8 5060-7e07 003f 021c 0407 cc1f c104 ffcc 1fc2 5070-0455 cc1f c004 48cc 1f1b 8410 cc1f 2b84 5080-10cc 1f4b 0448 f87e 0e1f 5818 0407 301b 5090-0407 001b 003f 0233 3bb0 0e1f 5918 0407 50a0-4e1b 0407 121b 003b a104 10f8 7e0e 1f5a 50b0-1804 0766 1b04 0712 1b00 3b8e 0e1f 5b18 50c0-0407 7e1b 0407 121b 003f 0243 0402 f87e 50d0-0e1f 5c18 0407 991b 0407 121b 003b eb0e 50e0-1f5d 1804 079f 1b04 0712 1b00 3bdc 0410 50f0-f87e 0418 cc1f 0d07 1e3f 021c 0400 3f02 5100-3904 aacc 1fc0 042d cc1f c1cc 1fc2 0440 5110-cc1f 1b84 20cc 1f2b 8420 cc1f 4b05 f80e 5120-1f5e 0f1f 5f0e 25ff 44f0 cd7e 080f 2498 5130-cd7e 180f 2498 cd7e 280f 2498 cd7e 48d9 5140-640c 1e8b f480 1819 f440 980f 089c 9807 5150-0420 c896 1f02 8ca4 01c8 8f0c 1f0e 7510 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a800 0050 7840 d030 a000 5b20-0070 08a0 2830 a000 0070 30b0 0868 6800 5b30-0020 4830 7050 3000 0080 a8b0 30a0 7800 5b40-0090 08a8 2048 0800 00e8 3050 4030 a000 5b50-00a8 9048 5078 d800 0028 8070 5078 8000 5b60-00a8 2048 0868 6800 0040 3070 c0a8 3000 5b70-0038 0820 6030 6800 0040 3048 50a0 7800 5b80-0018 5068 0878 e800 00a8 0838 a008 7800 5b90-0090 08a0 38c0 7000 00c8 30a0 3050 7800 5ba0-00b8 70a8 08b0 e800 0060 b890 3830 a000 5bb0-0038 6850 3040 3000 0020 4880 9050 7800 5bc0-0070 5070 80a8 3000 009b b808 6868 3000 5bd0-0018 a030 70a8 3000 0038 5068 b030 a000 5be0-0050 7878 b878 4000 006b 3040 5080 7800 5bf0-0050 7090 80a0 b000 0078 3060 a0b8 b000 5c00-00a8 b0a0 3050 6000 00a0 3060 a0b8 b000 5c10-0078 50c8 3008 b800 0040 0868 4030 7800 5c20-0038 a080 a820 4800 0070 b8a8 6030 6800 5c30-0080 0878 2b30 7000 0070 b8a8 30b8 7000 5c40-0060 8018 8068 2800 0060 8060 0850 7800 5c50-0070 5060 0828 8000 00a8 2048 b868 3000 5c60-00b0 8078 a8b8 a000 00b0 80a0 b0b8 a000 5c70-0060 0890 6808 7800 00d0 3050 2048 3000 5c80-0090 6808 7830 b000 0048 b870 7030 6800 5c90-0048 0870 7030 6800 0040 5040 0878 b000 5ca0-00a8 2048 0868 6800 00a8 2048 50a0 7000 5cb0-0038 80a0 7030 6800 0038 5078 4030 a000 5cc0-0070 0860 6830 a000 0070 08a0 5078 3000 5cd0-0070 08a8 30a0 7800 0070 3078 a820 4800 5ce0-0008 60e8 3078 b000 0008 b070 b878 4000 5cf0-0018 086b 6880 7800 0018 3038 3048 6800 5d00-0860 a0b0 1808 b000 4850 a0a8 2048 3000 5d10-6068 5078 6030 a000 6850 b008 7830 5000 5d20-9050 7840 b850 7800 a030 3830 a008 b000 5d30-3868 5030 2830 a000 7880 c830 6868 3000 5d40-4808 70a8 b030 a000 3808 48a0 a008 2800 5d50-1830 b0a0 5030 1800 b878 5038 80a0 7000 5d60-6808 b030 a078 3000 40a0 0890 4850 6000 5d70-3050 a8e8 3050 b000 2830 78b0 50a8 b000 5d80-a820 4850 3078 3000 6830 d850 6080 7800 5d90-9038 6808 7be8 3000 e850 b0a0 8078 3000 5da0-c830 a0b0 a008 4000 7850 6080 b050 7800 5db0-3068 3038 0878 b000 4050 78a8 b030 a000 5dc0-9008 a060 30b0 b000 6068 3050 2830 a000 5dd0-a890 08a0 4030 6800 30a0 2878 b8a8 a800 5de0-90a0 802b b860 b000 6830 4030 7828 3000 5df0-60c0 4868 b878 4000 9008 a0b0 7830 a000 5e00-1b0b 7808 b8a8 3000 1808 6868 30b0 b000 5e10-08a8 9048 0868 b000 7030 78b8 30b0 b000 5e20-7010 a020 4830 7800 7008 6808 a050 0800 5e30-6880 b0b0 30a0 5030 cb50 8068 5078 3000 5e40-7050 40a0 1078 3000 6068 80a8 b030 a000 5e50-d030 2048 a830 6800 6008 6880 a050 3000 5e60-7008 7888 c830 a000 4030 7830 a008 6800 5e70-7008 b030 a050 3000 7030 7018 a008 7800 5e80-1808 a8b0 08a0 2800 1880 e060 80b0 b000 5e90-18a0 30c8 5030 a000 2048 0878 a880 7800 5ea0-2048 8068 30a0 0800 2048 a080 7850 6000 5eb0-2830 6890 4850 7800 2850 0870 0878 b000 5ec0-3028 3068 4008 a800 3050 a870 3030 a000 5ed0-3060 a8b0 0ba8 3000 3070 0850 6868 3000 5ee0-30a0 28b0 3050 6800 3b08 a8a8 0828 3000 5ef0-3830 b050 ab20 4800 38b8 a078 5030 a000 5f00-4030 e830 50b0 3078 1808 b0b0 30a0 5030 5f10-4008 a008 78b0 5030 38b8 a0b8 7860 3068 5f20-38b8 7860 b050 8078 30d8 e830 78b0 30a0 5f30-30a0 2818 3018 3078 2850 0840 8078 0868 5f40-4030 a820 4880 a8a8 3050 a828 5030 6830 5f50-7030 7080 50a0 3078 0818 a8b0 a008 60b0 5f60-0828 8090 b050 8078 0868 1808 b0a0 80a8 5f70-08a0 8078 a8b0 0818 1808 b860 b878 a8b0 5f80-2048 0870 9050 8078 2830 a0d0 50a8 2048 5f90-2850 0840 7880 a830 3090 5028 3070 5030 5fa0-30d8 3070 9068 08a0 3808 2048 d030 a060 5fb0-3808 a820 4850 7840 4008 7840 a8b0 30a0 5fc0-4030 d050 b0b0 30a0 4808 7828 b0b8 2048 5fd0-4880 a890 50b0 0868 4880 a078 50a8 a830 5fe0-6808 b818 1808 b870 6808 b818 a810 4030 5ff0-6808 c830 7828 3068 60a0 50a8 b008 6868 Attachment: (text/x-c++src) hex2bin.cpp [not stored] Attachment: (image/png) hangman.png [not stored] Attachment: (image/png) metropolis_hangman.png [not stored] 1367 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 9:06pm Subject: Emulator V2: searching beta testers grumpfix Hello, Somebody interested in testing the version 2 of my emulator? Known issues left: robot killer/escape 4h30 shooting; pc keyboard/default key assignment issue (mapping down key to right control allows firing in this direction) rasterline based rendering/not cycle exact: in some games background color changes are flickering by 1 line several write only registers can be read in the emulator (take care if you use it for game developement, or fix it) Things to test: play games on emulator compare emulators pal(vcg) and ntsc(arcadia) behaviour compare vcg with real pal console compare arcadia with real ntsc console check if size and position of arcadia is the same as on ntsc TVs Arcadia type consoles (and other consoles) FLAG theory provement Arcadia type consoles A14 theory provement NTSC type consoles/USG2622 VRST duration theory provement The emulator is a driver for a modified MESS37B15. Linux binary/source available; DOS+DPMI32/DJGPP2; WIN32/MINGW might need a few work Changes since my last MESS release: * s2650 bcd arithmetic fixed (thanks to MAME/MESS) (blackjack and poker) * s2650 add opcode overflow improved (thanks to James for localizing it in dr-slump) * flag/color inversion added * rasterline based rendering (needs fewer memory, but a little more cpu power) * uvi2637 dma approximation added (thanks for providing the UVI datasheet) * fixed sprite/background collision generation/quitting * pal timing added * ntsc timing improved * arcadia paddles added (clowns) * vcg analog joysticks added (and hack for digital sticks) * controller 1/2 swapping added * sound fixed, noise added (thanks for the UVI manual) * improved ad channel selection/read back (hobo) * video lexikon image file support Peter # ANALOG joystick using games give troubles on arcadia (digital joystick) # 16KEYS uses some of the 4 additional vcg keys (has 16 keys); arcadia has only 12 keys on pad # A14 image has data at A14, not available on all consoles --> game not working # available: vcg, mpt03, schmid tvg2000 # not available: arcadia 2001 (although it is in its circuit diagram and some production series?!) # FLAG used to "invert" colors in some consoles, not available in all consoles --> different/wrong colors # available: vcg, mpt03?, schmid tvg2000 # not available: arcadia 2001? [VCG] 1cf08155 = 2001_baseball | | | | how to play? f3c08e19 = 3d_bowling | | | c011 | 4da68df8 = 3d_soccer | | | c033 | 1b5be22a = 3d_soccer set 2| | | c033 | 1f65b21e = alien_invaders | | | c008 | no second level (shoot mothership until time is off) df0bf3fb = astro_invaders | | | c028 | 28ad5bcf = autorace | mpt03 style cartridge mg300| | | e93938f6 = basketball | | | | 6818c8bd = battle 0930ce04 = blackjack_and_poker | mpt03 style cartridge mg315| | | 9240891b = boxing | mpt03 style cartridge: cartridge no. mg-321 | ca58b3f8 = brain_quiz (mind breaker,maxit,hangman) | | | c001 | 33c348c1 = breakaway | | | c007 | time too slow on pal authentic; FLAG (difficulty key switches between color sets) aeb803e4 = capture | | | c012 | fd2cf496 = cat_trax | | | c017 | 086ebc8c = circus | mpt03 style cartridge mg316 | | FLAG, ANALOG; NTSC (green or magenta background)/PAL aware 82d049d7 = combat | mpt03 style cartridge mg314| | | 76e773fa = crazy_climber | mpt03 style cartridge mg325| | | e84df2ef = crazy_gobbler | | | c002 | 62c45881=2000 doraemon.bin | bandai (arcadia style cartridge) 927c375a=2000 dr-slump.bin | bandai (arcadia style cartridge) | fc7eba76 = escape | | | c015 | 22624414 = football | | | | permanent noise authentic 77c19320 = funky_fish | | | c023 | a23c7a01 = golf | mpg03 style cartridge mg324?| | | A14, FLAG 5e033f9c = grand prix de monaco | | | | 7 links, 9 rechts, 5 accellerate, 0 decellerate 8bf2dfa9 = grand_slam_tennis | | | c022 | FLAG; flickering authentic #gundam | bandai (arcadia style cartridge) 1cec4b21 = hobo | | | c032 | 560daa7f = horse_racing | | | | random race background green, yellow/blue, green/magenta; NTSC/PAL aware #Hit "0" then "enter" on the keypad, to start the horses racing. That's the big thing to know. # #Before the race, multiple players can bid. Hit player number (1-6) then #enter, type in bet amount then enter, then pick "W" or "E" -- I have no idea #what that is, other than maybe Win or Place or Show? -- and then the color #of the horse (listed at the bottom). Then start the race. 97060a54 = jumpbug | | | c030 | dfb5dd55 = jungler | | | c019 | #macross | bandai (arcadia style cartridge) a615f068 = missile_war | mpt03 style cartridge mg313 | | c016 | 7832f7ad = nibblemen | | | | FLAG 449e80cb = ocean_battle | | | | shoot causes background flickering on real (NTSC) console thinkable 4f538848 = parashooter 4f19fd9b = pleiades | 1983 | UA | c024 | a0626e23 = r2d_tank | | | c031 | 06a86f4a = red_clash | | | c026 | 4671b7f7 = robot_killer | | | c004 | 8169864e = route16 | | | | b0b98a92 = soccer | | | c013 | player 1 stick rotated 90degree clockwise; player 2 90degree counterclockwise e3794a2c = space_attack | | | c003 | 3ff224e5 = space_mission | | | c009 | 88defacf = space_raiders | | | c018 | caa5f449 = space_squadron | | | c020 | 7666a712 = space_vultures | | | c006 | f9d9ec5b = spiders | | | c025 | 83e6e40b = star_chess | | | | 08d8b186 = super_gobbler | | | c005 | FLAG 0076422e = tanks_a_lot | | | c014 | e66f362d = the_end | | | c027 | 306e39c1 = turtles | | | c029 | 0739504d=3000 video_lexikon_deutsch_englisch.bin | palladium tv-computer-cassette 775/118 | 16KEYS,A14 | selector A switches between languages; start suche (bag,tag funktionieren) #[dup] 6289f607=3000 video_lexikon_englisch_deutsch.bin | same as 0739504d=3000 (subcartridges reversed) e0a9dd9a =0x1000 video lexikon modul ohne submodule (bottom submodul at 0x4000, top submodul at 0x2000) b2b9b5d8 =0x1000 video lexikon deutsch sub modul 320b0a9d =0x1000 video lexikon englisch sub modul # merge e0a9dd9a b2b9b5d8 320b0a9d for 0739504d # merge e0a9dd9a 320b0a9d b2b9b5d8 for 6289f607 # merge main top sub (video lexikon top's language sub's language) f9d9ec5b = spiders | | | c025 | overdumped, remove last 4kbyte 06a86f4a = red_clash | | | c026 | overdumped, remove last 4kbyte df0bf3fb = astro_invaders | | | c028 | overdumped, remove last 4kbyte 7f674c85 = crazy_gobbler | | | | overdumped, remove last 2 kbyte 306e39c1 = turtles | | | c029 | overdumped, remove last 4kbyte 28ad5bcf = autorace | | | | overdumped, remove last 4kbyte 82d049d7 = combat | | | | overdumped, remove last 4kbyte 9da024d3 = golf | | | | overdumped, remove last 2 kbyte 8c0c456e = soccer | | | c013 | overdumped, remove last 4kbyte dd1facab = super_gobbler | | | c005 | overdumped, remove last 4kbyte cca7a60b= golf 0000| | | | 1st of 2 parts, merge with golf 4000 a70ee568= golf 4000| | | | 2nd of 2 parts, merge with golf 0000 #[hacks] 881e11ac=1800 golf a13 | a23c7a01 hacked for non A14 consoles/WS' multicard # hacks for increased MESS compatibility # some interims hacks crc's not added yet 1a3082f9=2000 JUMPBUG!.BIN | hacked for mess dbb340bf=1000 oceanba!.bin | hacked for mess 33878852=2000 spiders_older.bin | hacked for mess 50af1481=1800 CIRCUS!.BIN older| hacked for mess 58b80428=1800 CIRCUS!.BIN | hacked for mess 09a474ae=2000 DORAEMO!.BIN | hacked for mess 61ab26c2=2000 DR-SLUM!.BIN | hacked for mess ec69267d=2000 GRNDSLA!.BIN | hacked for mess 59cb67a7=2000 HOBO!.BIN | hacked for mess 3859d736=2800 HOBO!.BIN v2.1? | hacked for mess a646631f=1800 MONACO!.BIN | start speed zeroing hack 56c4e008=1000 REDCLAS!.BIN | hacked for mess 8543544e=1000 SPIDERS!.BIN | hacked for mess d1987ff5=2000 VULTURE!.BIN | hacked for mess #[baddumps] f9757bde= golf a13 | a23c7a01 hacked for non A14 consoles/WS' multicard | incomplete; traping when getting on green 1368 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 23, 2003 11:38pm Subject: Re: TV Spielcomputer Bios mc71de Hello Hans-Heinz and Peter, --- Peter Trauner wrote: > Current available solutions: > * record/digitize in with your PC > * lend me your tape and let me do it Yesterday i digitized tapes ESS-007, ESS-009 and ESS-010 (for the record: HHB's Dragrace is on ESS-011 which i don't have...). It works well with WinXP Audio Recorder (trick-17: record 60sec of anything, 'edit->copy' and 'edit->insert' until you have 15minutes, then set to start of file and record the tape). At CD-stereo quality, i get some 100..150 MB .wav size per tape side (a single program will be significant smaller of course...) St a first glance things look good; now i have to restore my Spielcomputer and try on the Real Thing... -mc 1369 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Fri Jan 24, 2003 10:48pm Subject: Re: Emulator V2: searching beta testers amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Hello, > > Somebody interested in testing the version 2 of my emulator? > The emulator is a driver for a modified MESS37B15. > Linux binary/source available; > DOS+DPMI32/DJGPP2; WIN32/MINGW might need a few work Many thanks, this sounds very promising indeed. But I couldn't see the attachment for some reason, although the symbol was next to the message...? I'm able to test under DOS and/or Windows, but would need a DOS/Windows binary version for testing as I don't have MinGW etc. > #[hacks] > 881e11ac=1800 golf a13 | a23c7a01 hacked for non A14 consoles/WS' multicard > # hacks for increased MESS compatibility > # some interims hacks crc's not added yet > 1a3082f9=2000 JUMPBUG!.BIN | hacked for mess > dbb340bf=1000 oceanba!.bin | hacked for mess > 33878852=2000 spiders_older.bin | hacked for mess > 50af1481=1800 CIRCUS!.BIN older| hacked for mess > 58b80428=1800 CIRCUS!.BIN | hacked for mess > 09a474ae=2000 DORAEMO!.BIN | hacked for mess > 61ab26c2=2000 DR-SLUM!.BIN | hacked for mess > ec69267d=2000 GRNDSLA!.BIN | hacked for mess > 59cb67a7=2000 HOBO!.BIN | hacked for mess > 3859d736=2800 HOBO!.BIN v2.1? | hacked for mess > a646631f=1800 MONACO!.BIN | start speed zeroing hack > 56c4e008=1000 REDCLAS!.BIN | hacked for mess > 8543544e=1000 SPIDERS!.BIN | hacked for mess > d1987ff5=2000 VULTURE!.BIN | hacked for mess Current version of Hobo is 2.0 dated 31/12/02. I'll make a list of all CRCs for current patches. 1370 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Jan 26, 2003 7:44pm Subject: pvi2636/vc4000 requests grumpfix Hello, Yesterday, I checked the compatibility of my old vc4000 driver (much better than I remembered). Does somebody have the instructions of/know how to play these games? (I have problems with using some of them) VC4000 noise: does somebody know how it worked (or is it the same as the noise in the topp book?) VC4000 colors: I did it with 16 colors (I am going to do a lot of checking with the real console today). Uses the vc4000 the c0 line not only for inversion, but also for brighter/lighter colors? (contrary to tv spielcomputer) Peter 1371 From: "hanhein " Date: Sun Jan 26, 2003 8:57pm Subject: Re: pvi2636/vc4000 requests hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Hello, > > Yesterday, I checked the compatibility of my old vc4000 driver > (much better than I remembered). Good news.... > > Does somebody > have the instructions of/know how to play > these games? (I have problems with using some of them) I have them in German. Which instruction do you want to have? > > VC4000 noise: > does somebody know how it worked (or is it the same as the noise in the > topp book?) Yes, the Topp book is the same. Sound is controlled via 1FC7 and "Rauschen" and explosions via bits of 1E80. > > VC4000 colors: > I did it with 16 colors (I am going to do a lot of checking with the > real console today). > Uses the vc4000 the c0 line not only for inversion, but also for > brighter/lighter > colors? (contrary to tv spielcomputer) Color inversion was done by setting a bit in the 1E80 register. We used this as a screen saver. Brighter, lighter was never used as I remember it. The TV Spielcomputer could not adress 1E80. -HHB 1372 From: "mc71de " Date: Sun Jan 26, 2003 9:36pm Subject: Re: pvi2636/vc4000 requests mc71de Hi HHB and PeT, --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "hanhein " wrote: > > VC4000 noise: > > does somebody know how it worked (or is it the same > > as the noise in the topp book?) > > Yes, the Topp book is the same. Sound is controlled via 1FC7 > and "Rauschen" and explosions via bits of 1E80. ...if only the TOPP book would tell us what the bits do exactly... To PeT: Do you want to experiment with a sound plug-in board of an early VC4000? (data output latch is on main board, all the analog stuff on plug-in board) > > > > VC4000 colors: > > I did it with 16 colors (I am going to do a lot of > > checking with the real console today). > > Uses the vc4000 the c0 line not only for inversion, > > but also for brighter/lighter > > colors? (contrary to tv spielcomputer) c0 (or obj/scr, as it's called in some doc) does change level exactly if an object is displayed. And in my VC4000's it's connected to a pin of the color encoder chip (for which i can't find no data anywhere). According to CyberYogi ery early machines had discrete logic (similar as TOPP/Elektor?), but i haven't seen one of these. > > > Color inversion was done by setting a bit in the 1E80 register. Yes, i discovered this line just a few minutes ago (and it's properly made 'open collector' via a transistor). I only wonder why they didn't use FLAG instead... > We used this as a screen saver. Brighter, lighter was > never used as I remember it. The TV Spielcomputer could > not adress 1E80. I wonder if noone added the TOPP circuit into their TV-Spielcomputer? > > -HHB For the log: i got my TV-Spielcomputer semi-working. The clock generator lacks any of what i call stability. Lots of logic, which noone actually needs. Ughhh... Now i get a prompt of '=II[garbage]' instead of '=IIII'... should this be sign of bit rot in the RAM chips? (replacing with a single 2Kx8 should reduce power consumptiion too...) But at least the 2621/2636/2650 are well alive and kickin' (tested in a VC4000) -mc 1373 From: "hanhein " Date: Sun Jan 26, 2003 10:15pm Subject: Re: pvi2636/vc4000 requests hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > > > VC4000 noise: > > > does somebody know how it worked (or is it the same > > > as the noise in the topp book?) > > > > Yes, the Topp book is the same. Sound is controlled via 1FC7 > > and "Rauschen" and explosions via bits of 1E80. > > ...if only the TOPP book would tell us what the bits do exactly... Thats easy to test. Write a routine that sets every bit of 1E80 and you hear and see what happens.... > I wonder if noone added the TOPP circuit into their TV- Spielcomputer? > > Communication and information were not so easy and fast as today with the internet user groups..... And there were not many people with hardware knowledge. > For the log: i got my TV-Spielcomputer semi-working. The clock > generator lacks any of what i call stability. Lots of logic, which > noone actually needs. Ughhh... A TV Spielcomputer would be very small nowadays.... Thats good news. Is your Eprom still ok or is it missing some data? -HHB 1374 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:11am Subject: Re: Re: pvi2636/vc4000 requests grumpfix hanhein wrote: >>Does somebody >>have the instructions of/know how to play >>these games? (I have problems with using some of them) >> >> > >I have them in German. Which instruction do you want to have? > > blackjack memory 1/flag capture chess motocross intelligence 3 (master mind?) melody chess 2 soccer cockpit >>VC4000 noise: >>does somebody know how it worked (or is it the same as the noise in >> >> >the > > >>topp book?) >> >> > >Yes, the Topp book is the same. Sound is controlled via 1FC7 >and "Rauschen" and explosions via bits of 1E80. > I will try to understand the toppbook. >>VC4000 colors: >>I did it with 16 colors (I am going to do a lot of checking with >> >> >the > > >>real console today). >>Uses the vc4000 the c0 line not only for inversion, but also for >>brighter/lighter >>colors? (contrary to tv spielcomputer) >> >> > > >Color inversion was done by setting a bit in the 1E80 register. We >used this as a screen saver. Brighter, lighter was never used as I >remember it. The TV Spielcomputer could not adress 1E80. > > Pinball alteres the color registers (might games check if they run on a vc4000 or tvspielcomputer?) Do you have a description of the 1e80 bits somewhere? Grid blue in pinball is definitely darker than the blue of the sprites on my vc4000. Background white in acetronic air sea battle is light grey, and some mines bright white on my vc4000. Peter 1375 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Jan 27, 2003 4:29am Subject: Re: Re: pvi2636/vc4000 requests grumpfix mc71de wrote: >>>VC4000 noise: >>>does somebody know how it worked (or is it the same >>>as the noise in the topp book?) >>> >>> >>Yes, the Topp book is the same. Sound is controlled via 1FC7 >>and "Rauschen" and explosions via bits of 1E80. >> >> > >...if only the TOPP book would tell us what the bits do exactly... > Better than nothing. Audio guessing is very difficult. >To PeT: Do you want to experiment with a sound plug-in board of an >early VC4000? (data output latch is on main board, all the analog >stuff on plug-in board) > No, thanks. >>>VC4000 colors: >>>I did it with 16 colors (I am going to do a lot of >>>checking with the real console today). >>>Uses the vc4000 the c0 line not only for inversion, >>>but also for brighter/lighter >>>colors? (contrary to tv spielcomputer) >>> >>> > >c0 (or obj/scr, as it's called in some doc) does change level >exactly if an object is displayed. And in my VC4000's it's connected >to a pin of the color encoder chip (for which i can't find no data >anywhere). According to CyberYogi ery early machines had discrete >logic (similar as TOPP/Elektor?), but i haven't seen one of these. > I take it as an difference between VC4000 and tv spielcomputer (sprites, score lighter colors). >>Color inversion was done by setting a bit in the 1E80 register. >> >> > >Yes, i discovered this line just a few minutes ago (and it's >properly made 'open collector' via a transistor). I only wonder why >they didn't use FLAG instead... > An additional inversion or combined somehow with obj/scr? >For the log: i got my TV-Spielcomputer semi-working. The clock >generator lacks any of what i call stability. Lots of logic, which >noone actually needs. Ughhh... > Good to hear. Peter PS: dos/dpmi32 tinyvcg beta ready 1376 From: "axtelius2001 " Date: Mon Jan 27, 2003 6:25am Subject: Re: Macross and Gundam has arrived! axtelius2001 K, I was just about to hook up the two carts for dumping when I saw this. Someone please explain it to me before I fry them :) Looking at: http://home.att.net/~wards.game.history/arcadia/texts/2001- faq.htm#pinout I wondering about pins 1 and 30. Where is A12, A13 and /EN? If 30=A12 and 1=A13 then where is /EN? /frax --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > Hi Fredrik, > > when you are dumping the carts, please keep in mind that some > Arcadia consoles have address line A14 on the cart slot at pin 21, > this one is missing in Ward's FAQ, since not all machines have it. > It's the middle pin of three normally unused. > > I cannot tell if Bandai's Arcadia consoles had the pin connected, or > if any cart ever made use of it (except from Golf, that is, and > Video Lexikon). But it might be worth looking into that area. > > Just my .02 EUR... > > -mc 1377 From: "mc71de " Date: Mon Jan 27, 2003 1:23pm Subject: Re: Macross and Gundam has arrived! mc71de Hi Fredrik, --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "axtelius2001 " wrote: > K, I was just about to hook up the two carts for dumping > when I saw this. Someone please explain it to me before > I fry them :) No, you won't fry them... You won't fry anything unless you connect something to pin 29. This one is connected to pin 25&27 on all cartridge pcbs i have seen/heard of, but not connected inside the console. So better not connect an output of your dumping device there... > > Looking at: > http://home.att.net/~wards.game.history/arcadia/texts/2001- > faq.htm#pinout > I wondering about pins 1 and 30. Where is A12, A13 and /EN? > If 30=A12 and 1=A13 then where is /EN? Hmmm... this is one of the places i feel uneasy about leaving the FAQ as it is (remember: Ward, the FAQ's author, has retired). If you look at http://www.digitpress.com/faq/arc2001.htm#pinout (a slightly older version of the FAQ), you get an idea of what is going on. I'll try to summarize; to be consistent, i'll use the processor's view of addresses: -------------------------------------------------- A14: not connected on all consoles. If it is there, it lives on pin 21; Carts that don't use it have nothing connected here. But my Schmid console has it (as a trace on the pcb, so it's definitely not hacked in by some hobbyist...) Note: As of today, NO Emerson family cart has been found to use this line. 'Golf' and 'Video Lexikon' would need it, but they came from other console families... A13: happily lives at pin 1. But for any 8K cart with a single ROM chip, this is used as the ROM's A12. (other carts >4K use it to switch between two ROM chips) A12: happily lives at pin 30, but is heavily misused as /EN on the ROM (one of the /oe, /ce lines). The idea behind all this is: - in a system with 8K total address space, A12 is used to distinguish ROM space (a12 low: H'0000..H'0fff) and UVI space (A12 high: H'1000..H'1fff); even the UVI's chip select is active high for this reason, and this 'misuse' of A12 is described in the UVI data sheet... - in a system with more ROM space, the UVI stoill lives at H'1000...H'1fff. IIRC it's fully decoded and won't repeat at H'3000, H'5000 and H'7000 - but to keep cost low, the designers of the system commonly called the Arcadia decided to stay with A12 as ROM enable (if it's low, the UVI is 'out' and it's safe to put something on the data bus). A13 is now used as next-order address bit on the ROM (see above). This method would allow for 8K cartridges; for more, either a condition 'A12:high and A13:high' would need to be decoded, or A14 taken as next address bit for the ROM... -------------------------------------------------- In conclusion: If you hook up an Emerson cart like a 32K ROM (leaving /cs unconnected, only the address and data lines going to the cart), you're on the safe side. For a standard 8K cart, you'll get something like this (in 4K blocks): ROM1 (nothing) ROM2 (nothing) ROM1' (nothing) ROM2' (nothing) where ROM!', ROM2' are mirrors of ROM1,2 (since A14 is not decoded). I don't really expect to find anything else with those BANDAI carts, but who knows? As mentioned before, 'Golf' expects to see it's second ROM at the [ROM1'] area, and the language sub carts of Video Lexikon would go to [ROM2 (nothing)] and [ROM1' (nothing)] as they are designed to hold 8K each (the language carts we know do only have 4k, though) HTH (and not confused you), -mc 1378 From: "mc71de " Date: Mon Jan 27, 2003 1:36pm Subject: Bandai carts- rare? mc71de Hi all, just out of curiousity: what is the 'going rate' for those rare cartridges? I guess i'd have to pay more than $20 plus bubble wrap to get one, right? Which leads to my second question: Are they as rare in Japan, too, or is the 'make a japanese owner ship them overseas' the limiting factor? I mean we have been hunting after them for ages, not that it turns out that they came as pack-in carts with every BANDAI arcadia console... or something? -mc PS: If anyone knows a source for Commodore's MAX machine in PAL version for $10, let me know... i'm sure this was the flea market price if these had been released in europe... 1379 From: "hanhein " Date: Tue Jan 28, 2003 3:00am Subject: Some of the required manuals in german hanhein Hi PeT, I've scanned some old manuals for you: Schach Mastermind Dickers-Hangman Black-Jack Soccer The zip-File is 1,1 Meg in size. Link: http://gebrauchtwagen.to/misc/manuals.zip -HHB 1380 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:21am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Temporary_files/space_war.bin.gz Uploaded by : grumpfix Description : older? version of space attack (2kbyte size) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/space_war.bin.gz To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, grumpfix 1381 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Jan 28, 2003 5:26am Subject: backup log grumpfix Hello, space war tm video game cartridge arcadia style cartridge/connector (no product id) crc32 0xc91828cb, 0x0800 older? version of space attack (2kbyte only) doesn't work in the new emulator version!, but in the old version (investigating why) Does somebody want do check this version in a NTSC console? (a good reason for the other (newer?) version might be different ntsc timing) Peter 1382 From: "mc71de " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:11am Subject: Re: backup log mc71de Hi all, --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > space war > tm > video game cartridge > > arcadia style cartridge/connector > (no product id) > > crc32 0xc91828cb, 0x0800 > older? version of space attack (2kbyte only) That was the cart mentioned in http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/message/1138 right? Interestingly enough, there is no secret ascii message in it (but enough free space) Now who does a 'programming style analysis' to see whether both games were done by the same programmer, or not? -mc 1383 From: "mc71de " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:27am Subject: Re: Rowtron games list updated. mc71de Hi Dieter, --- "dieterk_ccc " wrote: > Check my updated pages at > http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_cartlist.htm Good work! But i've got a few questions: Silly question 1: Where do you take the conclusion on which version of Interton Chess Rowtron Chess is identical to? If i understand correctly, the two IT Chesses can't be easily distinguished, or am i missing something? Silly question 2: Could the 'hobby module' be the 'tv games computer'-cartridge HHB mentioned as a prototype for vc4000? Silly question 3: Who proofread the 'Einf?hrung zum VC4000'? There seem to be some inaccuracies in there... Silly question 4: When will the interview with HHB be translated... no wait... that was my job *ooops* sorry... -mc 1384 From: "hanhein " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 2:52am Subject: Re: backup log hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > Hi all, > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner > wrote: > > space war > > tm > > video game cartridge > > > > arcadia style cartridge/connector > > (no product id) > > > > crc32 0xc91828cb, 0x0800 > > older? version of space attack (2kbyte only) > > That was the cart mentioned in > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/message/1138 > > right? Interestingly enough, there is no secret ascii message in it > (but enough free space) Now who does a 'programming style analysis' > to see whether both games were done by the same programmer, or not? > > -mc Has anyone a screen copy of it? I think I have a disassembled listing of this game. -HHB 1385 From: "mc71de " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 3:24am Subject: Re: backup log mc71de Hi Hans-Heinz, --- "hanhein " wrote: [space_war.bin and space_attack.bin] > Has anyone a screen copy of it? I think I have a > disassembled listing of this game. > > -HHB Attention: This is Arcadia (UVI, 2637, whatever...) land here. i'll put some screenshots at the 'Files' section (temporary files) at Yahoo, of both games (space attack has a noce demo mode, which overcomes my keyboard problems- hence there is no 'player' sprite at the SpaceWar screenshot) But whatever source code you have (2636 or 2637-based): i'd like to take a look at it. Maybe it's even something 'Philips-official'? At one point, we were discussing wether all those great games were hand- coded, done via something like the Elektor computer, or even created on a bigger machine. Especially as we have found some lines of assembly source code in one ROM... See http://home.att.net/~wards.game.history/arcadia/texts/hidden.txt for all that hidden stuff. -mc 1386 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 4:03am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Temporary_files/spacewar.png Uploaded by : mc71de Description : screen shot of space war, taken with mess 0.56 You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/spacewar.png To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mc71de 1387 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Jan 28, 2003 8:03pm Subject: Re: Some of the required manuals in german grumpfix Hi HHB, >I've scanned some old manuals for you: > >Schach > >Mastermind > >Dickers-Hangman > >Black-Jack > >Soccer > Superhirn and Schach2 are missing some text at the end! >The zip-File is 1,1 Meg in size. > > The zip-File of the quickly typed in texts is 9111 bytes. (all in German, no information loss) Peter Attachment: (application/zip) tvspielcomputer_manuals_german.zip [not stored] 1388 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:57pm Subject: Re: backup log grumpfix > > >doesn't work in the new emulator version!, but in the old version >(investigating why) > > Timing nightmare. Depends extremely on the timing of the bottom half of the displayed screen. Delayed for cycle exact emulator (space attack works fine) (test version works, but impossible? to adjust timing for all games in the rasterline based emulator) Peter 1389 From: "hanhein " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:20am Subject: Re: backup log hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > But whatever source code you have (2636 or 2637-based): i'd like to > take a look at it. Maybe it's even something 'Philips-official'? At > one point, we were discussing wether all those great games were hand- > coded, done via something like the Elektor computer, or even created > on a bigger machine. Especially as we have found some lines of > assembly source code in one ROM... > > See http://home.att.net/~wards.game.history/arcadia/texts/hidden.txt > for all that hidden stuff. > > -mc Interton Chess and Bowling were not hand-coded as far as I remember. -HHB 1390 From: "hanhein " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 5:27am Subject: Re: Some of the required manuals in german hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Hi HHB, > > >I've scanned some old manuals for you: > > > >Schach > > > >Mastermind > > > >Dickers-Hangman > > > >Black-Jack > > > >Soccer > > > Superhirn and Schach2 are missing some text at the end! > Sorry, I can't find the rest of it. -HHB 1391 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 7:49pm Subject: Re: Rowtron games list updated. dieterk_ccc > Silly question 1: Where do you take the conclusion on which version > of Interton Chess Rowtron Chess is identical to? If i understand > correctly, the two IT Chesses can't be easily distinguished, or am i > missing something? You know, there are no silly questions, just silly answers ;) Well, Rob Glover from UK who gave me all that info (see my DPCG7 update page in the Interton section on my website), and he told me that this chess was the same as Interton #13. But you are right, it's hard to distinguish between #13 and #22. So if anyone ownes the Rowtron Chess, it would be great if he/we could check it out, if it's the first or second Interton version. > Silly question 2: Could the 'hobby module' be the 'tv games > computer'-cartridge HHB mentioned as a prototype for vc4000? Hard to say, but everything is possible. Unfortunately I do not know anyone who owns a hobby module ... > Silly question 3: Who proofread the 'Einf?hrung zum VC4000'? There > seem to be some inaccuracies in there... Um, I wanted to proofread the text before publishing it, but I forgot. The author is Winnie Forster from www.gameplan.de. He was in the "Video Games", "Power Play" and "Maniac" magazine teams and now has his own company. He just published his first video games book. But that doesn't mean that me makes no errors ... ;-) > Silly question 4: When will the interview with HHB be translated... > no wait... that was my job *ooops* sorry... Well yes, it was *our* job ... umm could anyone manage to get me 36 hours days??? 1392 From: "mc71de " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:15pm Subject: Re: monitor.bin finished and completely proofread mc71de Hi all, --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Trionfo" wrote in message 824 on Sat Oct 19, 2002: > I found two differences between the file I typed > in from the [Elektor] book as monitor.bin and > another file called 2650bios. ...the later being a dump of an actual TV Spielcomputer ROM... > The first difference is the last byte, $7FF. > The assembly listing in the book does not use > that last byte of 2K, but the 2650bios has an > $82 there. Fill byte? Checksum? At least, my ROM has it too... > The other piece of code that there is a difference > between is at $435. The code $CD on the Listing > side of the book does not match what the source > should assemble to. Not only does my ROM have CC at this location, but the former owner had written a correction note into the book. So we can take it as a printing error. For the curious: Currently my TV games computer runs with an amazing 256 bytes of RAM- seems i had RAM problems just in the 'display scratch' area. (something like Video RAM in a normal computer) Next, i'll add a keyboard- either Interton controllers, or a modified keyboard from my spare parts box. -mc 1393 From: "mc71de " Date: Wed Jan 29, 2003 10:22pm Subject: Re: Rowtron games list updated. mc71de Hi Dieter, --- "dieterk_ccc " wrote: > > Silly question 3: Who proofread the 'Einf?hrung > > zum VC4000'? There seem to be some inaccuracies > > in there... > > Um, I wanted to proofread the text before publishing > it, but I forgot. The author is Winnie Forster from > www.gameplan.de. He was in the "Video Games", > "Power Play" and "Maniac" magazine teams and now > has his own company. He just published his first video > games book. > But that doesn't mean that me makes no errors ... ;-) *deep_sigh* It's Winnie! Man!ac... Video Games (RIP)... my basement is full of them. I even read Power Play as long as it was a supplement to Happy Computer... And i shouldn't wonder if that article back in 1992/3 about video games history (where i first saw the yellow SABA carts, and read about that ugly, kludgy Interton VC4000 all-german video game... *cough* *cough*) wasn't written by Winnie himself. I can still remember at what cafeteria of my university i read that article. And i remember that i should have polished my physics homework instead... > umm could anyone manage to get me 36 > hours days??? Hmmm... no source for these... but Ebay.de had an auction of "30 MC's, start at 1 Euro!!!" recently. Maybe i should have bought some more of me... homan multitasking rulez ;) -mc 1394 From: "hanhein " Date: Thu Jan 30, 2003 0:47am Subject: Re: monitor.bin finished and completely proofread hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > Hi all, > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Trionfo" wrote in > message 824 on Sat Oct 19, 2002: > > > I found two differences between the file I typed > > in from the [Elektor] book as monitor.bin and > > another file called 2650bios. > > ...the later being a dump of an actual TV Spielcomputer ROM... > > > The first difference is the last byte, $7FF. > > The assembly listing in the book does not use > > that last byte of 2K, but the 2650bios has an > > $82 there. > > Fill byte? Checksum? At least, my ROM has it too... > > > The other piece of code that there is a difference > > between is at $435. The code $CD on the Listing > > side of the book does not match what the source > > should assemble to. > > Not only does my ROM have CC at this location, but the former owner > had written a correction note into the book. So we can take it as a > printing error. This is no printing error. The TV Spielcomputer was designed without memory expansion. Later P.J. Dickers developed a memory expansion for Hocosoft and Elektor. This expansion needed a bios modification because the Bios was mirrored at a Ram area which now was used by the memory expansion. Without modification it is not possible to use the expansion. -HHB 1395 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:01am Subject: Re: backup log amigansoftware > That was the cart mentioned in > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/message/1138 > > right? Interestingly enough, there is no secret ascii message in it > (but enough free space) Now who does a 'programming style analysis' > to see whether both games were done by the same programmer, or not? > > -mc Yes, I will be having a look at them. 1396 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:42pm Subject: Re: Rowtron games list updated. dieterk_ccc > Man!ac... Video Games (RIP)... my basement is full of them. I even > read Power Play as long as it was a supplement to Happy Computer... > And i shouldn't wonder if that article back in 1992/3 about video > games history (where i first saw the yellow SABA carts, and read > about that ugly, kludgy Interton VC4000 all-german video game... > *cough* *cough*) wasn't written by Winnie himself. > > I can still remember at what cafeteria of my university i read that > article. And i remember that i should have polished my physics > homework instead... *Nostalgia mode one* Sigh, I had a subscription of "TeleMatch" back then and I bought every "Happy Computer" issue. And I had "Power Play" and "Video Games" subscriptions from the very first to the very last issues. Fortunately I kept them all, so every few months, preferably on a warm and sunny day, I hide myself in my room or on the balcony or in the garden with a stack of those magazines and suddenly it's 1983 again for some hours ... :-) 1397 From: "hanhein " Date: Thu Jan 30, 2003 9:55pm Subject: Happy Computer hanhein > > Sigh, I had a subscription of "TeleMatch" back then and I bought > every "Happy Computer" issue. And I had "Power Play" and "Video > Games" subscriptions from the very first to the very last issues. > Fortunately I kept them all, so every few months, preferably on a > warm and sunny day, I hide myself in my room or on the balcony or in > the garden with a stack of those magazines and suddenly it's 1983 > again for some hours ... :-) If you have all Happy Computer editions you will find my game ST- Memory for the Atari ST in one of the issues (maybe it was edition 100). -HHB 1399 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Jan 30, 2003 11:40pm Subject: Re: Happy Computer mc71de Hi all, --- "hanhein " wrote: > > > > > Sigh, I had a subscription of "TeleMatch" back then > > and I bought every "Happy Computer" issue. And I had > > "Power Play" and "Video Games" subscriptions from the > > very first to the very last issues. So you have the 'uncensored' issue of Video Games?!? (the one with a large Mortal Kombat Tips and Tricks section, IIRC- they had to take it out at the last second (between print of the subscriptions and the 'free sales') because they under-estimated the power of german 'forbidden materials' law) > > Fortunately I kept them all, so every few months, > > preferably on a warm and sunny day, I hide myself > > in my room or on the balcony or in the garden with > > a stack of those magazines and suddenly it's 1983 > > again for some hours ... :-) Hide on the balcony... i must figure out how and where i can hide on *our* balcony... > > If you have all Happy Computer editions you will > find my game ST- Memory for the Atari ST in one > of the issues (maybe it was edition 100). > > -HHB 'cuse me, i'm in the cellar now- looking for ST Memory... -mc PS: Rumour has it that 'Happy Computer' evolved into 'Computer Live' (i still have the 'double cover' issues, but didn't buy CL anymore) which in turn evolved into 'PC Go!' which is still alive and kickin'. PPS: The very first 'Happy Computer' was called 'Hobby Computer', but had to change name because 'Hobby Computer' had been reserved for someone else. That other project never came into being... 1400 From: "hanhein " Date: Fri Jan 31, 2003 0:15am Subject: Re: Happy Computer hanhein --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > > > > > If you have all Happy Computer editions you will > > find my game ST- Memory for the Atari ST in one > > of the issues (maybe it was edition 100). > > > > -HHB > > 'cuse me, i'm in the cellar now- looking for ST Memory... > It was "Happy Computer - Sonderheft 19" -HHB 1401 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Fri Jan 31, 2003 8:05pm Subject: Re: Happy Computer dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > So you have the 'uncensored' issue of Video Games?!? > (the one with a large Mortal Kombat Tips and Tricks section, IIRC- > they had to take it out at the last second (between print of the > subscriptions and the 'free sales') because they under-estimated the > power of german 'forbidden materials' law) Um yes, all the subscribers got the uncensored issue afaik. I'd have to look, but don't know which issue that was ... > PS: Rumour has it that 'Happy Computer' evolved into 'Computer Live' > (i still have the 'double cover' issues, but didn't buy CL anymore) > which in turn evolved into 'PC Go!' which is still alive and kickin'. I bought all the CL issues after the merger, though I did not like that magazine too much, there was too much DOS/PC stuff in it, and I liked the "homecomputers" way more. I think they sent me a "chip" test issue after CL died, but I didn't jump on the wagon. > PPS: The very first 'Happy Computer' was called 'Hobby Computer', > but had to change name because 'Hobby Computer' had been reserved > for someone else. That other project never came into being... Hmm, yes I have that first Happy Computer issue with "Hobby Computer" on the cover, but I heard/read an other story - the famous German magazine "Hobby - Magazin der Technik" forced the Hobby Computer makers to change the name. I think they wrote it in the second Happy Computer issue, I'd have to look ... Regards, Dieter 1402 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri Jan 31, 2003 11:18pm Subject: pvi2636/vc4000 consoles: 3 theories grumpfix Hello, I did a lot of tests and comparisions (console, emu and screenshots). Question/theory 1: Not all consoles have an additional background/grid color pallette. (several screenshots, dumps differ in the color palette) Easiest to identify background/grid color pallette in vc4000 pinball (dark blue grid, blue sprites) mpu1000 air sea battle (grey sky; white mines) Question/theory 2: Not all consoles can disable the additional grid/background pallette. (several screenshots, dumps differ in the color palette) Easiest to identify in vc4000 winter sports (cyan sky, white ground) Question/theory 3: Not all consoles have the additional noise hardware. (when several consoles skipped the additional vc4000 pallette hardware, then probably also the noise hardware (same hardware subsystem)) Easiest to identify in vc4000/mpu1000 hunting (player shoot) Somebody brave enough to do: some screenshots compare below screenshots with real console burn vc4000 images and do screenshots or comparisions ? Peter PS: below screenshots are from the emu (colors are too bright) (vc4000 and my tv card don't like each other --> poor picture quality) PPS: latest changes; hooked up sprite finished interrupts (winter sports) added vc4000 background palette disable (winter sports) fixed tvspielc palette Attachment: (image/png) winter_sports.png [not stored] Attachment: (image/png) pinball.png [not stored] Attachment: (image/png) air_sea_battle.png [not stored] 1403 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 1:43am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Photos_and_scans/Technical_pictures/combat_cart_bottom.jpg Uploaded by : stefanpiasecki Description : You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Photos_and_scans/Technical_pictures/combat_cart_bottom.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, stefanpiasecki 1404 From: "Stefan Piasecki " Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 1:50am Subject: Cart variety found? stefanpiasecki Hi, today I received some carts that I thought were MPT-03 carts as they look very similar, but they arent. They are of a different shape. I opened them and scanned a number of elements. I uploaded the pictures to Files > Photos_and_scans > Technical_pictures . Please have a look. I wrote comments into the pics. Maybe somebody of you knows what this all means. Sorry, I wanted to write more but I just heard about the Columbia tragedy on CNN.... this is so sad. I can't believe it. I must stop now. Stefan 1405 From: "mc71de " Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 3:15am Subject: Re: Cart variety found? mc71de Hi Stefan, --- "Stefan Piasecki " wrote: [strange carts] - I suspect this to be an 'Arcadia clone', too. Unfortunately, i cannot identify which one... - What is that blue jumper wire doing there? Is the Eprom's pin damaged in any way, or what? (It looks it just connects the etched trace to the pn that is soldered into the same location anyway?) > I just heard about the Columbia tragedy on CNN.... *takes a minute of silence* yes, i watch it too... and i still remember Columbia's first mission in '81, and the Challenger tragedy later (can't remember the exact year...) Let's hope at least it doesn't turn out to be a terroristic attack (yes, i get sort of paranoid these days) or being easily avoidable... -mc 1406 From: "mc71de " Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 4:06am Subject: Re: Cart variety found? mc71de Hi Stefan and group, me again... according to http://www.digitpress.com/faq/arc2001.htm#pinout it is an Ormatu family cart. (I like this version better than that on Ward's site because it still has all the technical notes that were deleted from the last version) I checked http://home.att.net/~wards.game.history/arcadia/texts/dp2001dc.doc and found the entry as follows: >>>> Name: Combat Family: Ormatu Status: Unconfirmed. Number: #M__, CS2__. <<<< HTH -mc 1407 From: "Stefan Piasecki " Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 10:16pm Subject: Re: Cart variety found? stefanpiasecki Yes, it seems to be an Ormatu style cart, but for what system? The production dates on the chips are very close to each other (this Ormatu cart and a MPT-03 cart). On Wards page there is also a picture of the game Combat in yet another style, but if you look at the chip, then you'll see that the writing is the same. Obviously an earlier theory of Wards seems to be true: Somebody produced loads of chips and wasn't allowed to use them, so these chips found their way into numerous systems. Or so it seems. I also found that the stickers on the carts are different. Most are very similar to MPT-03 carts, but Star Chess is clearly different. Does anybody want to see a scan? Stefan 1408 From: "hanhein " Date: Sun Feb 2, 2003 11:34pm Subject: TV spielcomputer games eradable? hanhein Max told that he dumped the Elektor cassettes to wav files. Are they now readable for the emulator? -HHB 1409 From: "atrionfo " Date: Mon Feb 3, 2003 8:35am Subject: Arcadia Moderator Status atrionfo I haven't read this group in about a month or so. I won't be catching up with the messages anytime soon. Ward has retired, that leaves Russ Perry Jr. and I to moderate this Arcadia board. Since I won't be checking up regularly, if anything comes up that needs moderation, send me a brief email and I'll check in. Adam 1410 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 4:14am Subject: Re: TV spielcomputer games eradable? grumpfix hanhein wrote: >Max told that he dumped the Elektor cassettes to wav files. Are they >now readable for the emulator? > > Most likely. I tested the tv spielcomputer only with a manual generated one yet. Peter 1412 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 10:38pm Subject: VC4000 Cassette-interface questions grumpfix Hallo, does somebody know an answer for following questions? How did they get a13 and pvi a11/cs from the vc4000 cartridge port? At what areas are the ram/eproms mapped in bothed configurations? Peter PS: No, I don't want to rebuild it. But it is be interesting to know this (for example adding a vc4000 cassette driver to examine the differences of tape games in vc4000 and tvspielcomputer) (or why the $5000 address in the galgenspiel listing) 1413 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Feb 4, 2003 8:38pm Subject: TV-Spielcomputer Ur-Version grumpfix Hello, Bernstein's book tv-computerspiele realisierung der hard- und software describes some "prototype?" hardware and an early tv-spielcomputer: (no bios, pvi at $xf00-$xfff; program in the appendix is for pvi at $1f00 and works also in the later consoles/computer), program cartridge, emulator cartridge (ram, counter, switches), noise+color inverter hardware Does somebody have/know software for this console/computer only (pvi at $0f00)? What is the difference between the acetronic mpu1000 and mpu2000? Peter 1414 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 3:15pm Subject: Re: Arcadia Moderator Status slapdash26 At 9:35 PM +0000 2/2/03, atrionfo wrote: > I haven't read this group in about a month or so. I won't be > catching up with the messages anytime soon. Ward has retired, that > leaves Russ Perry Jr. and I to moderate this Arcadia board. Since I > won't be checking up regularly, if anything comes up that needs > moderation, send me a brief email and I'll check in. I haven't been reading very closely, but I have been reading. Hopefully I can keep up with any moderation chores there might be. Thankfully, I haven't really seen too many yet. :-) -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1415 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Feb 5, 2003 4:23pm Subject: Re: Bandai carts- rare? slapdash26 Sorry I haven't answered this one in a timely fashion... At 2:36 AM +0000 1/27/03, mc71de wrote: >just out of curiousity: what is the 'going rate' for those rare >cartridges? I guess i'd have to pay more than $20 plus bubble wrap >to get one, right? Much more, it would seem, though they may get more reasonable eventually. >Which leads to my second question: Are they as rare in Japan, too, >or is the 'make a japanese owner ship them overseas' the limiting >factor? I mean we have been hunting after them for ages, not that it >turns out that they came as pack-in carts with every BANDAI arcadia >console... or something? I think they are a bit rare there too, but I've seen them turn up three times now, or so (and missed out every time). -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1416 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 9:41pm Subject: Peter Marschat's TV-Spielcomputer dieterk_ccc A new article on my website that I think might be of interest to you guys ... http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_petermarschat.htm 1417 From: "mc71de " Date: Thu Feb 6, 2003 10:26pm Subject: Re: Peter Marschat's TV-Spielcomputer mc71de *gulp* *tilt* -mc --- "dieterk_ccc " wrote: > http://www.dieterkoenig.at/ccc/it/s_it_petermarschat.htm 1418 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri Feb 7, 2003 4:58am Subject: VC4000 emu beta1 grumpfix Hello, somebody interesting in testing such an emulator? gnu linux i386 x11 version dos dpmi32 version later (if I get the crosscompiler working) Supported systems: interton vc4000 console elektor tv spielcomputer (bios image missing, but working with luxusversion bios) elektor tv spielcomputer "luxusversion" Supported: very incomplete vc4000 noise hardware only rasterline based emulator --> several graphical glitches can not be avoided Unsupported: interton vc4000 tape cartridge (memory mapping not known) interton vc4000 "tvspielcomputer" multicartridge (no image, no technical info about it) slightly different consoles (nothing confirmed yet) elektor tv spielcomputer urversion (no software known for it) Still a few games not usable. In several games graphic glitches. Peter # ANALOGCONTROLS means analog joystick emulation needed # NOISE noise hardware in vc4000 # not in tv spielcomputer # NOINVERSION vc4000 can prevent grid/background color inversion/darker colors # not tv spielcomputer # 16COLORS vc4000 has darker color palette for background/grid # not in tv spielcomputer # pvi a11 must be connected on the vc4000 cartridges # most connect it to a12 --> PVI_A11_IGNORED (default) # chess 2 seams to need A11 and A12 # some early cartridge will need A11 # PVI_A11 pvi at $xf00-$xfff needed (ur tv spielcomputer+vc4000, not tv spielcomputer) # PVI_A12 pvi at 0x1f00-0x1fff needed # PVI_1F00 pvi at 0x1f00-0x1fff, no mirrors at 0x3f00, 0x5f00, 0x7f00 (only tvspielcomputer extended) # PVI_A11_IGNORED pvi at $1700-17ff needed; not tvspielcomputer extended! # (pvi normally at $1f00-1fff, and io at $1e80-1eff) # TYPE4RAM 4kbyte cartridge, 1kbyte? ram at 0x1000 # TYPE4RAM256 4kbyte cartridge, 256 byte ram at 0x1000 # TYPE4RAM1024B 4kbyte cartridge, 1024 byte ram at 0x1800 # TYPE6RAM 6kbyte cartridge, 1kbyte ram # TYPE6RAM1024 6kbyte cartridge, 1kbyte ram at 0x1800 # 6KByte cartridges give problems on the tvspielcomputer [vc4000] # the first 13 seam to be acetronic mpu1000/2000 versions # 682b876a,5c7f11e0,ec2a91b3,5e8ee224,cb28b9fe,9c8e7de6,3da31bc5,0ab80f3e, # 87977f92,c6b2cd9a,6ae47072,b589f093,b1c31f9a #682b876a = Olympics (Pack-in Game) | acetronic? 1 | | | ANALOGCONTROLS #5c7f11e0 = Grand Prix | acetronic? 2 | no other cars | | ANALOGCONTROLS #ec2a91b3 = Blackjack | acetronic? 3 | #get new card #show #bet finished/bed high/bed low 5e8ee224 = Tank Battle/Plane Battle | acetronic? 4 | cb28b9fe = Air Sea Battle | acetronic? 5 | | | 16COLORS 9c8e7de6 = Shooting Gallery | acetronic? 6 | #7 Math #8 Math 2 #9 Challenge #10? Auto Sport #10? Codebreaker #11 Supermaze 3da31bc5 = Horse Racing | acetronic? 12 | #0ab80f3e = Circus | acetronic? 13 | | | ANALOGCONTROLS #14 Prizefight 87977f92 = Soccer | acetronic? 15 | | not working in rebuild cartridge (bad dump?) #16 Hobby Module (never released?) #17 Musical Games #18 Treasure Hunt #19 Golf #20 HeadOn #21 Draughts #22 Spiders Web #23 Chess #24 Othello c6b2cd9a = Electronic Pinball | acetronic? 25 | #26 Super Knockout 6ae47072 = Invaders (Pack-in Game)| acetronic? 27 | #28 ? b589f093 = Shootout | acetronic? 29 #b1c31f9a = Space Wars | acetronic? 30 | #31 Lazer Attack #32 Backgammon #33 Planet Defender #34 Sea Wolf (never released?) # working in another version # metropolis hangman 5c7f11e0 = Car Races/grand prix | vc4000 1/acetronic? 02 | | | ANALOGCONTROLS, 16COLORS ec2a91b3 = las vegas blackjack | vc4000 2/acetronic? 03 | | | 682b876a = Paddle Games/olympics | vc4000 3/acetronic? 01 | | | ANALOGCONTROLS 468e4779 = Tank Battle, Air Battle/tank air battle | vc4000 4/acetronic? 04 e38e0c03 = mathematik 1 | vc4000 5 | | video timing; keyboard assignment 66c5975e = mathematik 2 | vc4000 6 | | f3d37699 = Air, Sea Battle/air_sea_battle | vc4000 7/acetronic? 05 ea8f717f = Memory 1, Flag Capture| vc4000 8 7b2b2b61 = intelligenz 1 (labyrinth) | vc4000 9 bdd652b7 = Winter Sports | vc4000 10 | | | NOINVERSION aaea290f = Hippodrome/horse racing | vc4000 11/acetronic? 12 | | graphics | 16COLORS 31978ad4 = Hunting | vc4000 12 | | | NOISE e9c53288 = Chess | vc4000 13 | 1kbyte ram at 0x1000-0x1fff | graphics | TYPE4RAM1024B 55011f0a = Motocross | vc4000 14 | | graphics a0f5320a = Intelligence II (4 gewinnt)| vc4000 15 | | 52b8c6e7 = Intelligence III (mastermind)| vc4000 16 | | graphics 0ab80f3e = Circus/circus | vc4000 17/acetronic? 13 | | | ANALOGCONTROLS 922c9f0d = Boxing Match | vc4000 18 | b1c31f9a = Outer Space Combat/space wars | vc4000 19/acetronic? d68da80a = Melody, Simon | vc4000 20 | 619c07c9 = Intelligence 4, Reversi | vc4000 21 | | 1b948aeb = Chess II | vc4000 22 | 1kbyte ram at 0x1800-0x1fff; PVI A11 pin not checked | | PVI_1F00, TYPE6RAM add99c6e = Pinball/electronic pinball | vc4000 23/acetronic? 25 | | |16COLORS 05af8228 = Soccer/soccer | vc4000 24/acetronic? 15 | | a47fe1bf = Bowling, Ninepins | vc4000 25 | | graphics | PVI_A11_IGNORED; ANALOGCONTROLS 7b868473 = Draughts | vc4000 26 | 1 kbyte ram at 0x1000-0x1fff | | TYPE4RAM256; 16COLORS d399ce07 = Golf | vc4000 27 | | graphics 11dd7f0d = Cockpit | vc4000 28 | | graphics a640a330 = Metropolis Hangman | vc4000 29 | (left 2 faster; left 0 select; left clear continue; left enter accept) | graphics 08209d98 = solid,r | vc4000 30 | | 50fd6a18 = Casino | vc4000 31 | | | NOINVERSION, PVI_A11_IGNORED (only wrong background if not) 9497204a = Invader | vc4000 32 | | a46c2f9e = Super Invaders | vc4000 33 | | | NOINVERSION (writes to 1e1a 1e4a; means nothing!?) # = space laser (not released) | vc4000 34 # = rodeo (not released) | vc4000 35 08cd8135 = backgammon | vc4000 36 | 1kbyte ram at 0x1000-0x1fff | graphics | TYPE4RAM256 27cce96f = Monster-Man | vc4000 37 b3ed1129 = hyperspace | vc4000 38 | | # = basketball (not released) | vc4000 39 306e37bb = superspace | vc4000 40 | | #baddump 14468471 = Chess II | vc4000 22 | incomplete 3e984c7a = Bowling, Ninepins | vc4000 25 | baddump a01ffcd8 = 1000 galgenspiel/hangman | GERMAN | typed in; not verified d9b5d633 = 1000 galgenspiel/hangman | GERMAN | typed in; some word fixes; not verified 1419 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Sat Feb 15, 2003 7:28am Subject: Silence is golden??? dieterk_ccc :-) 1420 From: "mc71de " Date: Sat Feb 15, 2003 9:55am Subject: Re: Silence is golden??? mc71de "dieterk_ccc" wrote: > :-) Sssshhhh... geniousses (genii?) at work ;)) 1422 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:41am Subject: What happend to Gundman and Macross dumps? axtelius2001 Some of you might be wondering where the Gundam and Macross dumps are so heres the story. A friend of mine bought them from Japan and decided not to keep them. He arranged an email auction for the 2 carts. While the auction took place I borrowed the two carts since I have the equipment to dump them. I also took part in the auction but decided to drop out somewhere around $650 (yes, six hundred and fifty US dollars). The auction is now closed and the carts are on there way to the happy owner (i dont know who it is). I have heard from the seller that the new owner might not want the dumps to be released so until I get his permission the dumps stays here with me. /frax 1423 From: "dieterk_ccc " Date: Sun Feb 16, 2003 9:07pm Subject: Re: Silence is golden??? dieterk_ccc --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de " wrote: > "dieterk_ccc" wrote: > > :-) > > Sssshhhh... geniousses (genii?) at work ;)) Oh! ... /me tiptoes away ... 1424 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Sun Feb 16, 2003 10:59pm Subject: Re: What happend to Gundman and Macross dumps? amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > Some of you might be wondering where the Gundam and Macross dumps are so > heres the story. > > A friend of mine bought them from Japan and decided not to keep them. He > arranged an email auction for the 2 carts. While the auction took place I > borrowed the two carts since I have the equipment to dump them. I also took > part in the auction but decided to drop out somewhere around $650 (yes, six > hundred and fifty US dollars). > > The auction is now closed and the carts are on there way to the happy owner > (i dont know who it is). I have heard from the seller that the new owner > might not want the dumps to be released so until I get his permission the > dumps stays here with me. > > /frax :-( 1425 From: "amigansoftware " Date: Tue Feb 25, 2003 0:47pm Subject: Alternate version of Soccer? amigansoftware I seem to recall that there were two versions of Soccer which were externally similar/identical but different internally? I know there are 2D Soccer and 3D Soccer, this is not what I mean. I think there were actually two versions of one of these (the 2D Soccer IIRC), it might have been called Fu ball or similar. Anyway I'd like to add the alternate version to the ROM Pack for the sake of completeness, and also at some point do a comparative disassembly of both. The version of (2D) Soccer I have has a CRC32 of 8C0C456E. (In case it is 3D Soccer that I'm thinking of, its CRC32 is 46A68DF0.) So does anyone have this alternate version? Thanks. 1426 From: "mc71de " Date: Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:11pm Subject: Re: Alternate version of Soccer? mc71de Hi James, --- "amigansoftware " wrote: > I seem to recall that there were two versions of Soccer See http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_fil es/fussball.zip for 'em- the 'fussball' rom came from a Tchibo Tele Fever cart. See also the remark on 'Fu ball' in Ward's DPCG Director's Cut on his web site. BTW, that is the reason why i asked once what cart exactly had been dumped (not only cart family, but exact system/'brand' name)... reminds me to crack open my Palladium carts again, re-dump them (we might find something new- i doubt it, though) and write up all the Signetics ROM part numbers (as far as there are ROMs and not EPROMs) > which were externally similar/identical but different > internally? Well... Tele Fever carts *are* somewhat different externally- label- wise. Other than that, they are plain Long Arcadia style with notch/nose (as are the Schmid carts)- I still wonder if this notch thing has a deeper reason (maybe 'ntched' systems have A14, others don't?) or not. > it might have been called Fu ball Hey- correct spelling of Fu ball. Great! But anyway, it is 3D- Soccer... > do a comparative disassembly Hmmm... my opinion? Forget it... there are only a few bytes (some 20) different in a large, mostly empty space. Maybe they aren't used at all? But who knows... -mc 1427 From: "mc71de " Date: Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:22pm Subject: Re: What happend to Gundman and Macross dumps? mc71de Hi James, --- "amigansoftware" wrote: > :-( Yes- indeed. But looking at what happened, it was never about making the dumps available. To me, it looks as if the announcement of the dumps was only a marketing instrument to raise the price of the carts, as in 'pay me more, and i'll hold back the dumps'. I'd never thought that having a public ROM file drastically lowers the cart value amongst collectors, but it does. What makes me angry about it is the fact that i not only believed the carts were to be dumped -honestly, i doubt the dumps exist at all- and made available (did Fredrik ever promise that?), ao i wasted half an hour of my time to seek an older version of Ward's FAQ and wrote a message about the peculiarities of the Arcadia slot. I should have saved my time. But i should have known better, since i had already experienced Fredrik's idea of 'cooperation'. I tried it anyway, i lost, i won't complain... -mc, disappointed 1428 From: "Rikard Ljungkvist" Date: Tue Feb 25, 2003 6:25pm Subject: Re: Re: What happend to Gundman and Macross dumps? dum_eller Hi! > Yes- indeed. But looking at what happened, it was never about making > the dumps available. To me, it looks as if the announcement of the > dumps was only a marketing instrument to raise the price of the > carts, as in 'pay me more, and i'll hold back the dumps'. That is just vile speculation... I should know since I was the seller of the carts! The idea of dumping the carts was Fredrik's from the start and I was all for it. Since I was going to sell the carts that was not a problem with me. But, things dragged out a bit and I got several interested bidders on the games and one was quite concerned with the value of carts dropping if the dumps were made public. I told him then that they were being dumped and that he had to take that into his calculations. Well, when the bidding was completed the dumps was just ready and the winner (yes, the same one that had expressed his concerns about the dumps) asked that the dumps was to be withheld until he wanted them released. Since they were not already released I did agree to this. > I'd never thought that having a public ROM file drastically lowers > the cart value amongst collectors, but it does. To this I do not agree. Some collectors *think* that this is the case, but from my experience it is not so. There is no way to compare a simple dump to the real thing. If this was true then most games for most systems would be worthless from a collecting point of view. And, this is clearly not the case. The value might be a bit less, but not drastically lower. > What makes me angry about it is the fact that i not only believed > the carts were to be dumped -honestly, i doubt the dumps exist at > all- and made available (did Fredrik ever promise that?), ao i > wasted half an hour of my time to seek an older version of Ward's > FAQ and wrote a message about the peculiarities of the Arcadia slot. > I should have saved my time. The dumps *do* exists and awaits the clearance by the (happy) new owner of the games. If your time is so *extremely* valuable that you can not give half an hour up to help someone else (unselfishly) then I can't understand why you put this time in from the beginning. Come on! > But i should have known better, since i had already experienced > Fredrik's idea of 'cooperation'. I tried it anyway, i lost, i won't > complain... This sounds quite interesting... please let me in on this information. I have known Fredrik for a long time and I have never heard or experienced anything but the best cooperation. A better collector colleague is hard to find! And, to blame Fredrik for actions and happenings that are out of his control is not fair at all. I would say that it would have been most dishonest of Fredrik to release the dumps when asked not to, since he is not the owner of the actual carts. This (sour?) discussion, I guess, if the new owner of the games will read it, will not make him more interested in making the dumps available... and after reading your post I guess it might be for the best... i.e. if Fredrik would have been allowed to release the dumps then he would have been "the hero of the day" and now that he can not do so he is a "shady character"... Best Regards, Rikard 1429 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Tue Feb 25, 2003 8:48pm Subject: Re: Re: What happend to Gundman and Macross dumps? axtelius2001 Hi all! Well you have by now read Rikards replay so no need for me the explain the story why the dumps have not been released. > ao i > wasted half an hour of my time to seek an older version of Ward's > FAQ and wrote a message about the peculiarities of the Arcadia slot. > I should have saved my time. The email you wrote abut the peculiarities of the Arcadia slot was great and helped me double check everything before I dumped the carts. Thanks alot for helping me with that. > But i should have known better, since i had already experienced > Fredrik's idea of 'cooperation'. I tried it anyway, i lost, i won't > complain... Oh? Please refresh my memory, im not saying your wrong but I don't recall having any unfinished buissines with you. If I have done anything to offend you I am sorry and can assure you it was absolutely not my intention. I sure hope the other collectors I have been in contact with has the same negative image of me as you have, someone please back me up here :) > -mc, disappointed I can understand that but its really not my fault. I have the dumps and will release them as soon as I can. I hope the owner of the carts is reading our discussion. /frax 1430 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:08am Subject: Re: Re: What happend to Gundman and Macross dumps? slapdash26 "Rikard Ljungkvist" wrote: >one [bidder] was quite concerned with the value of carts dropping if the > dumps were made public. I told him then that they were being dumped and > that he had to take that into his calculations. Well, when the bidding > was completed the dumps was just ready and the winner (yes, the same one > that had expressed his concerns about the dumps) asked that the dumps > was to be withheld until he wanted them released. Since they were not > already released I did agree to this. Though I understand, I'm a little disappointed by this... He know that they WOULD be released, and bid under those conditions, so he should have no say in it after agreeing to it. >> I'd never thought that having a public ROM file drastically lowers >> the cart value amongst collectors, but it does. > To this I do not agree. Some collectors *think* that this is the case, > but from my experience it is not so. There is no way to compare a simple > dump to the real thing. If this was true then most games for most systems > would be worthless from a collecting point of view. And, this is clearly > not the case. The value might be a bit less, but not drastically lower. I agree. This has been proven over and over again, with both prototypes AND rare games. Take 2600 Quadrun for example... There may only be 10000 carts out there, but this isn't even scarce compared to SOME out there. Yet this game routinely sells for between $200-600, depending on extras and condition. Since the ROM has been available for a long time, why hasn't the price dropped below $100? Below $50? > This (sour?) discussion, I guess, if the new owner of the games will > read it, will not make him more interested in making the dumps > available... Is he on the list then? If so, I urge him to allow the release of the ROMs. > and after reading your post I guess it might be for the best... i.e. > if Fredrik would have been allowed to release the dumps then he would > have been "the hero of the day" and now that he can not do so he is a > "shady character"... I don't know Fredrik from Adam really, but I found that post a little distressing too. :-( //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1431 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:12am Subject: Re: Re: Alternate version of Soccer? slapdash26 "mc71de " wrote: > "amigansoftware " wrote: >> I seem to recall that there were two versions of Soccer [...] >> it might have been called Fu ball > But anyway, it is 3D-Soccer... >> do a comparative disassembly >Hmmm... my opinion? Forget it... there are only a few bytes (some >20) different in a large, mostly empty space. Maybe they aren't used >at all? But who knows... But at least a disassembly would prove whether those bytes are truly unused or not, right? It's odd, though, that there are only that many bytes different -- bit rot maybe? slightly bad dump? Or compiled with different "junk" data at two different places? I mean, both of these were dumped off of ROMs, not EPROMs, right? That means that ANY variation means a totally different masking (ROM making) process, which means that they ~doubled their costs. Why would they do that? //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1432 From: "Rikard Ljungkvist" Date: Wed Feb 26, 2003 7:50am Subject: Re: Re: What happend to Gundman and Macross dumps? dum_eller Hi! > >one [bidder] was quite concerned with the value of carts dropping if the > > dumps were made public. I told him then that they were being dumped and > > that he had to take that into his calculations. Well, when the bidding > > was completed the dumps was just ready and the winner (yes, the same one > > that had expressed his concerns about the dumps) asked that the dumps > > was to be withheld until he wanted them released. Since they were not > > already released I did agree to this. > Though I understand, I'm a little disappointed by this... He know that > they WOULD be released, and bid under those conditions, so he should have > no say in it after agreeing to it. I guess you are right, but since the dumps were not available when he became the owner I decided that it really was in his hands. But, from what I understand from his request (after he bought the games) he intends to release them but would like to do so a bit later. Still, I can not promise anything. Best Regards, Rikard 1433 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Feb 26, 2003 11:34am Subject: Re: Re: What happend to Gundman and Macross dumps? slapdash26 "Rikard Ljungkvist" wrote: >>> when the bidding was completed the dumps was just ready and the winner >>> asked that the dumps was to be withheld until he wanted them released. >>> Since they were not already released I did agree to this. >> Though I understand, I'm a little disappointed by this... He know that >> they WOULD be released, and bid under those conditions, so he should have >> no say in it after agreeing to it. > I guess you are right, but since the dumps were not available when he > became the owner I decided that it really was in his hands. Heh, could have said "too much snow; can't make it to the post office today" until the dumps were released. ;-) > But, from what I understand from his request (after he bought the games) > he intends to release them but would like to do so a bit later. Well, kudos to him if he does release them. I still hope to find those carts, BINs or not... //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1434 From: "dryborg " Date: Fri Feb 28, 2003 9:46pm Subject: Interton 4000 emulator for windows wanted dryborg hi all, I really do not belong in your forum, so please forgive my brief intrusion. I am not a programmer. When I was a boy my parents bought me and my brother the interton VC4000 which was our very first game console. And we loved it to death - quite literally! We completely broke it down in few years and - alas - eventually my parents threw it away. Now I am searching for an emulator to play some of the good old games. I especally love the old fighter jet dog fight and the tank shoot-out with the projectiles bouncing off the walls. God, we played that a lot! :-D Thing is: I am a windows man, know nothing of Linux. So I need a working, easy-to-use Windows GUI-based emulator which says "press this button to play" - launching me back to 1978 with the click of a mouse buton. Will this ever happen ? Thank you for your time. DryBorg 1435 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Mar 1, 2003 5:20am Subject: Re: Interton 4000 emulator for windows wanted grumpfix dryborg wrote: >Thing is: I am a windows man, know nothing of Linux. So I need a >working, easy-to-use Windows GUI-based emulator which says "press >this button to play" - launching me back to 1978 with the click of a >mouse buton. > >Will this ever happen ? > Try knoppix linux (linux booting from cd without installation). (works fine on my actual athlon system with VIA chipset inclusive sound). If this works on your computer, I can do a beta build for you. Then you have to do only a few simple tasks like: (after copying the images and the emulator to the harddisk before you start knoppix) localizing the executiv (/mnt/hda1/mess.x11 if you put them on "c:\" and this is the partition 1) opening a shell and starting this program /mnt/hda1/mess.x11 vc4000. (cartridges can be changed via the "complicated" mess ui). Peter 1436 From: "axtelius2001" Date: Wed Mar 5, 2003 7:09pm Subject: New file uploaded axtelius2001 Hi all! I finaly found my old email backups AND an old Macintosh. So here is (as promised) the original source to Pauls Arcadia emulator. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_to ols/2001.ZIP Below is Paul original email to be, have fun! /frax -------------------------------------------------------- Subject: Re: Arcadia 2001 questions Date: 00-02-01 12.27 Received: 00-02-01 12.30 From: AutismUK@... To: frax@... Attached is the complete archive of beta 5. This is my development directory ; it has the emulator source, all the technical documentation, and so on. Now the bad news. At the web page there is a later version. This has better handling of the display, and the sound. But I lost the source and the technical information. Some of it is in TECH.TXT in the tech subdirectory. There is also a staggeringly primitive assembler :) but you'd probably be better using TASM (I thought I had a TASM table but it seems not) You need to use -d when unzipping. View this file as "open" now, i.e. anyone who wants it can have it :) Paul Robson 1438 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Mar 12, 2003 7:53pm Subject: Jump Bug: Cart variety identified stefanpiasecki To those of you who have the Tele-Fever and other versions of Jump Bug - you can test this yourselves. The Tele-Fever version of Jump Bug allows you to switch to each scene if you press "start" first and then "0" on the left keypad (you play the game with thre right controller) for "training purposes" (as it says in the manual). The Tele-Fever version also mentiones this function in its German manual, which is otherwise identical to the German TVG-manual (the Tele-Fever manual features this extra-hint and they removed many spelling mistakes - there are also no UA Ltd. copyright notes anywhere). The TVG version neither mentiones this in the manual nor does the game have this feature but the left overlay marks a button "Weiter" (forward) although this button does not work. I also tested the Leisure-Vision version and it also has this feature - only the TVG version doesn't. This is very strange as it indicates that there were different versions sold during the system's short lifespan in 1982-1983. This backs Wards theory that indeed a "bigger" version of Phoenix may exist. PET, would you want to dump my carts? I tried all the other TF games (Tennis, 3D Soccer, Astro Invader) and they are all identical. With maybe one exception. The TF-manual of 3D Soccer says that for 1/2 player play the 1/2 player switch must be used, while the TVG version allows you to switch using the select button as it doesn't have this button (I didn't test if this also works on the TF-console - if not it would indicate that this game would also be slightly different. I also noted that some games (Space Attack) crash on the TF, so obviously some changes to the hardware were made and may have required such changes in the code. Does anyone want to help in researching this matter? Stefan 1439 From: Peter Trauner Date: Wed Mar 12, 2003 11:08pm Subject: Re: Jump Bug: Cart variety identified grumpfix Howdi Stefan, >To those of you who have the Tele-Fever and other versions of Jump >Bug - you can test this yourselves. >The Tele-Fever version of Jump Bug allows you to switch to each scene >if you press "start" first and then "0" on the left keypad (you play >the game with thre right controller) for "training purposes" (as it >says in the manual). The Tele-Fever version also mentiones this >function in its German manual, which is otherwise identical to the >German TVG-manual (the Tele-Fever manual features this extra-hint and >they removed many spelling mistakes - there are also no UA Ltd. >copyright notes anywhere). The TVG version neither mentiones this in >the manual nor does the game have this feature but the left overlay >marks a button "Weiter" (forward) although this button does not work. >I also tested the Leisure-Vision version and it also has this >feature - only the TVG version doesn't. >This is very strange as it indicates that there were different >versions sold during the system's short lifespan in 1982-1983. This >backs Wards theory that indeed a "bigger" version of Phoenix may >exist. > Great, another big investigation. >PET, would you want to dump my carts? > Of course, 3 adapters (for the Ormatu I haven't build one yet, but I have the complete material for it) are waiting for stuff. >I tried all the other TF games (Tennis, 3D Soccer, Astro Invader) and >they are all identical. With maybe one exception. The TF-manual of 3D >Soccer says that for 1/2 player play the 1/2 player switch must be >used, while the TVG version allows you to switch using the select >button as it doesn't have this button (I didn't test if this also >works on the TF-console - if not it would indicate that this game >would also be slightly different. > Did somebody describe the switches/buttons on a console yet? Did somebody describe the different pads yet (palladium vcg (16buttons), arcadia (12 buttons), mpt03/ormatu (14 buttons), more?) yet? >I also noted that some games (Space Attack) crash on the TF, so >obviously some changes to the hardware were made and may have >required such changes in the code. >Does anyone want to help in researching this matter? > > Did you test it with Wards multicard or with a standard cartridge? I don't know about differences which might cause crashing yet. Is there a collection of good quality overlay scans somewhere? Peter 1440 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Mar 13, 2003 0:44am Subject: Re: Jump Bug: Cart variety identified stefanpiasecki I always test original carts. My revised eprom is still on its journey, but even then I only use the Multicart for normal gaming, tests are always done with original hardware. I don't know of any place for OL scans. I could make some - it is just a time issue. Stefan 1441 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Thu Mar 13, 2003 3:53pm Subject: Re: Jump Bug: Cart variety identified amigansoftware > I don't know of any place for OL scans. I could make some - it is > just a time issue. I've got MPT-03 overlay scans of Basketball, Boxing, Crazy Climber, Golf, Horse Racing and Devilman the Dot Muncher which I downloaded from somewhere. More overlay scans would be good. So would manual scans; I don't mind typing them out if someone would be kind enough to scan some in that are missing. 1443 From: "swstiletto" Date: Tue Mar 25, 2003 9:35am Subject: Signetics 2637 UVI swstiletto Greetings. :) Could someone please temporarily (Hans-Heinz?) upload the Signetics 2637 UVI programming manual again somewhere, please? Thanks, Stiletto http://www.mame.net 1444 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Mar 26, 2003 10:49pm Subject: Found another cart-variety stefanpiasecki Hi, I found another cart variety. Unlike the TVG version of Space Attack (and as far as I know all other versions - check this yourselves, please) the Australian Arcadia 2001 version features another text on the startup screen. It says "Space Attack - copyright ...." in changing colours. The normal versions only show the copyright notice - or does this only happen in the German TVG version? This would be the second time that TVG versions are different and may be an indicator for these being either one of the first or the last game-versions produced. These games as well as the two different versions of Jump Bug plus two versions of 3D Soccer were sent to PeT today. He'll dump and compare them. The reason why 3D Soccer was also sent is that the Tele- Fever has a special 1/2-player switch and I'd like to know if the TF- version of 3D Soccer somehow supports this hardware switch of if all the versions have this support and it is just not active. I'll let you know what happens. Stefan 1445 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Mar 31, 2003 7:12pm Subject: Another backup log grumpfix Hello, I backuped Stefans cartridges. 2 new Variantes: TVG2000 space attack (less title text) TVG2000 jumpbug ("untrained") (both differ as described from Stefan). Peter 0000-1fff 1b5be22a telefever fu ball (arcadia style long cartridge) (25,27,29 connected; 19,21,23 nc) telespielcassette fu?ball Diese Cassette ist kompatibel mit dem System TVG 2000. Weitere Tele-Fever-Cassetten: Astro Invader - Jump Bug - Tennis 0000-1fff 4da68df8 video game cartridge 3dsoccer tm (arcadia style long cartridge) (25,27,29 connected; 19,21,23 nc; hole around pin 27) (keine Firmenbezeichnung auf Vor- oder R?ckseite --> arcadia oder tvg2000 stil, tippe auf tvg2000) 0000-1fff 97060a54 tele fever jump bug (arcadia style long cartridge) (25,27,29 connected; 19,21,23 nc; hole around pin 27; stecker sieht wie 3dsoccer aus) telespielcassette jump bug Diese Cassette ist komatibel mit dem System TVG 2000. Weitere Tele-Fever-Cassetten: Astro Invader - Tennis - Fu ball 0000-1fff dc0264b8 video game cartridge jumpbug tm (arcadia style long cartridge) (25,27,29 connected; 19,21,23 nc; stecker sieht wie fu ball stecker aus) jump bug tm videospiel kassette c030 f?r schmid tvg 2000 (c) ua ltd 1982, all rights reserved, licensed by coreland technology inc.) auszug aus unserem spielkassetten - programm c001 brain quiz c003 space attack c005 super gobbler c006 space vultures c007 breakaway c008 alien invaders c009 space mission c010 ocean battle c011 3d bowling c012 capture c013 soccer c014 tanks a lot c015 escape c016 missile war c017 cat trax c018 space raiders c019 jungler c022 grand slam tennis c023 funky fish c024 pleiades c025 spiders c026 red clash c027 the end c028 astro invader c029 turtles/turpin c030 jump bug c031 r2d tank f?r diese qualit,ts spielkassette gelten die Garantiebedingungen der spielkonsole 0000-07ff 669632ec video game cartridge space attack tm (arcadia style long cartridge) (25,27,29 connected; 1,19,21,23 nc; hole around pin 27) space attack videospiel-kassette c003 f?r tvg 2000 (c) ua ltd 1982, all rights reserved c001 brain quiz c002 crazy gobbler c003 space attack c004 robot killer c005 super gobbler c006 space vultures c007 breakaway c008 alien invaders c009 space mission c010 ocean battle c011 3d bowling c012 capture c013 soccer c014 tanks a lot c015 escape c016 missile war c017 cat trax c018 space raiders c019 jungler c020 space squadron c021 star chess c022 grand slam tennis c023 funky fish c024 pleiades c025 spiders f?r diese qualit,ts spielkassette gelten die garantiebedingungen der spielkonsole 0000-0fff e3794a2c video game cartridge space attack tm (arcadia style long cartridge) (25,27,29 connected; 1,19,21,23 nc; hole around pin 27; connector looks like tvg space attack) video game cartridge for use only with the arcadia 2001 tm by emerson (c) ua ltd. 1982, all rights reserved one player game (uses right side controller) * try your evasive action skill to stop the space craft rocketing to destroy you * you have three missile launchers to "wipe" them out * different skill levels * see the space craft "peel off" and zero onto your missile launcher * also you must avoid a "rain" of rockets * be hurry to destry all enemy space craft in each armada as you will be running out of fuel, watch the fuel gauge * destroy all the space craft and another faster armada appears * abonus missile launcher to be granted for scoring reaches 5000 points * great action - color - sound effects * highest score remains on screen so next player can challenge * fun for all the family cartridge no.2 part no. 1013 space attack tm made in hongkong 1446 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Tue Apr 1, 2003 6:05pm Subject: More background infos on later TVG carts stefanpiasecki PeT recently asked if it was just a radnom mistake that the 3D Soccer cart (TVG-version) I sent him did have just a plain blue back-label unlike all other carts that list the names of the available games. I thought so, at first. In all the years on ebay (4!) I ever only saw 3 copies of 3D Soccer. The first I bought also had a plain blue back- label. I traded this one to Matt because I already had a copy of the TF-version. Some weeks ago I bought another boxed TVG-copy and it also had no writing on the back. Now the interesting part begins: yesterday I received another bunch of games including a boxed 3D Soccer (again a plain label) and Grand Slam Tennis, also with a plain blue label. Both had manuals of the Tele-Fever game versions attached. This can only mean one thing: from a certain point on Schmid lost faith in the system and very obviously was even not interested in getting any more orders in. They were just selling off stocks. At the moment I believe that they lost faith before 3D Soccer became available and probably only took it because it actually was one of the best games for the system and soccer is a major sport in Germany. But they already knew that they wouldn't continue. Fresh runs of other games (Tennis) also didn't have any writing on the back-label and they didn't even print Schmid-specific manuals anymore. Did anybody else notice any TVG-games with no writing on the back? Another theory could be that they wanted to move on with and concentrate on the Tele-Fever brand and make any older or bad games not to be remembered, but I doubt this. I just believe the swallowed enough. Something else: can anybody confirm that Star Chess ever came out for the TVG in a normal blue box? It appears in the very first Schmid catalogue and was removed from any catalogues that were published later (I know of 3 different catalogues). A screenshot is printed onto the box of the console (which means nothing as it also shows shots of Baseball and Am. Soccer which never came out in Germany). Since the game was already available for the Palladium and MPT-03, the code was there. And since all other games that were removed from the lists after the initial catalogue came out (Crazy Gobbler, Space Squadron etc.) did actually see the light of day, a release of Start Chess seems to be quite likely to me. Any comments? Stefan 1447 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Apr 4, 2003 0:34am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Programming_tools/vacs124b.zip Uploaded by : cydocydo Description : This is a quick hack to the VACS 1.24 to provide a binary output for the Signetics 2650 processor You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_tools/vacs124b.zip To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, cydocydo 1448 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Apr 4, 2003 2:44am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Programming_tools/vacs124c32.zip Uploaded by : cydocydo Description : This is the Win32 port of the VACS 1.24 assembler You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_tools/vacs124c32.zip To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, cydocydo 1449 From: "Sylvain De Chantal" Date: Fri Apr 4, 2003 4:54am Subject: AARRGGHH!!! Did i overslept or what ?!?? slydc Oh my God! It's been such i time i didn't came here to read the forum that now, there's too many things to catch up. If anyone can tell me a quick run-down of what happend in the last 6 to 9 months, it would be appreciated. If there where any important messages or messages to my concern, let me know ASAP. Sorry if i didn't came back before, i'm on a big project (writing a book) and it's take most of my free time. Now that i'm awake (LOL!!), be sure i'll come here from time to time :P Take care folks! :) --- Sly DC --- 1450 From: "cydocydo" Date: Fri Apr 4, 2003 6:22am Subject: VACS assembler win32 port v1.24d/w32 cydocydo Hi all, I don't want to bother you again, but here is a new version of the VACS/w32: New parameters since v1.24b: -k Padd Binary File with 00h to [num] bytes -c Padd with [byte = 0..255 (decimal)] instead of 00h v1.24d/w32: - always generate Binary Output .bin (parameter -a omitted!) - changed -k parameter (see above) - added -c parameter (see above) - support for the DASMx automatic indexing mode Opcode,r [*]p [,x] [,] [+/-] (p = 0..8191) example (both are equivalent): loda,r0 sprite0,r1+ loda,r0 sprite0,r1,+ Example 1: asm32 mothership.asm generates the mothership.bin binary. Example 2: asm32 mothership.asm -k 4096 generates a 4k mothership.bin binary padded with 0h (default). Example 3: asm32 mothership.asm -k 2048 -c 255 generates a 2k mothership.bin binary padded with FFh (=255 decimal). Comments & suggestions are welcome! Regards, Dennis 1451 From: "cydocydo" Date: Sat Apr 5, 2003 9:42pm Subject: Programming: doraemon - how to do that vertical scrolling? cydocydo Hi folks, I've just stumbled over Doraemon and the vertical scrolling of the credits and the opening screen. How's that possible? I couldn't find a vertical scroll register (like the horizontal scanline scrolling in the volume register). And I can't find any in the disassembled version by James Jacob... cya dennis BTW: I've updated the VACS assembler one more time, now in v1.24f the dbx opcode is supported: ; UDC Data udc1: dbx ".######." ; 7Eh dbx "#......#" ; 81h dbx "#.#..#.#" ; A5h dbx "#......#" ; 81h dbx "#.#..#.#" ; A5h dbx "#..##..#" ; 99h dbx "#......#" ; 81h dbx ".######." ; 7Eh 1452 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Apr 5, 2003 11:09pm Subject: Re: Programming: doraemon - how to do that vertical scrolling? grumpfix cydocydo wrote: >I've just stumbled over Doraemon and the vertical >scrolling of the credits and the opening screen. >How's that possible? I couldn't find a vertical scroll >register (like the horizontal scanline scrolling >in the volume register). And I can't find any >in the disassembled version by James Jacob... > > 18fc crtc vertical position it is in the uvi datasheet and in my extensions of Paul Robson's technical information (this should be in the file area) Peter 1453 From: "cydocydo" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2003 2:21am Subject: Re: Programming: doraemon - how to do that vertical scrolling? cydocydo > 18fc crtc vertical position > it is in the uvi datasheet > and in my extensions of Paul Robson's technical information (this should > be in the file area) oh. yes, here it is: CRTCVPR thanks. 1454 From: "cydocydo" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2003 9:14am Subject: Programming: LODZ r0 = iorz r0 ? cydocydo hello, it's me again. This time still bugfixing VACS. VACS compiles 00h lodz r0 obviously wrong (=00h), as AS2650 compiles 60h lodz r0 which looks ok as of 2650UM.pdf page 52 ..but what about iorz r0 ??? VACS and AS2650 both compiles 60h iorz r0 which should be ok (2650um.pdf). uhm, now if both opcodes compiles to the same byte code, this could be a problem ;-) iorz r0 isn't the same as lodz r0! What I'm missing in here? regards dennis 1455 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2003 10:19am Subject: Re: Programming: LODZ r0 = iorz r0 ? amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "cydocydo" wrote: > hello, it's me again. This time still bugfixing VACS. > VACS compiles > > 00h lodz r0 > > obviously wrong (=00h), as AS2650 compiles > > 60h lodz r0 > > which looks ok as of 2650UM.pdf page 52 > ..but what about iorz r0 ??? VACS and > AS2650 both compiles > > 60h iorz r0 > > which should be ok (2650um.pdf). uhm, > now if both opcodes compiles to the same > byte code, this could be a problem ;-) > iorz r0 isn't the same as lodz r0! > What I'm missing in here? > > regards > dennis lodz,r0 means r0 = r0; iorz,r0 means r0 |= r0; Neither of them do anything very useful :-) The only conceivable use for them is that they do affect the condition codes... To quote from the 2650 manual: "The instruction %00000000 [lodz,r0] yields indeterminate results." So therefore it is not a valid opcode. I would guess that AS2650 is translating lodz,r0 to iorz,r0, which is roughly equivalent but avoids using the %00000000 instruction. The other solution would be simply to flag lodz,r0 as an error. A few random suggestions for VACS: * unimportant: allow $1234 style of hex numbers (Amiga-style) * unimportant: allow X1234 style of hex numbers (DASMX-style) * unimportant: currently numbers such as A0H must be entered as 0A0H, it would be better to not require the leading zero (although I presume this might cause problems determining whether a label or a literal is meant) * more important: some way of telling VACS about the layout of Arcadia ROMs: $0000..$0FFF (first 4K): loaded into $0000..$0FFF at runtime $1000 and onwards (beyond first 4K): loaded into $2000 and onwards at runtime. If VACS knew this it would make things a lot easier. 1456 From: "cydocydo" Date: Sun Apr 6, 2003 10:08pm Subject: Re: Programming: LODZ r0 = iorz r0 ? cydocydo >lodz,r0 means r0 = r0; >iorz,r0 means r0 |= r0; >Neither of them do anything very useful :-) The only conceivable use >for them is that they do affect the condition codes... oh, didn't noticed that z = r0 ;-) >To quote from the 2650 manual: "The instruction %00000000 [lodz,r0] >yields indeterminate results." So therefore it is not a valid opcode. >I would guess that AS2650 is translating lodz,r0 to iorz,r0, which is >roughly equivalent but avoids using the %00000000 instruction. The >other solution would be simply to flag lodz,r0 as an error. I fixed it to $60 (=iorz,r0) as stated in the 2650 manual. >A few random suggestions for VACS: > * unimportant: allow $1234 style of hex numbers (Amiga-style) lodi,r0 $12 ; already works fine loda,r0 $1234 ; already works fine > * unimportant: allow X1234 style of hex numbers (DASMX-style) I've tried to include it, but there is a problem regarding labels - and your fixer does a great job... > * unimportant: currently numbers such as A0H must be entered as >0A0H, it would be better to not require the leading zero (although I >presume this might cause problems determining whether a label or a >literal is meant) oh, this is something I'm already used to. You'll find this behaviour in nearly every assembler. or just use $a0 and you're fine ;-) > * more important: some way of telling VACS about the layout of >Arcadia ROMs: >$0000..$0FFF (first 4K): loaded into $0000..$0FFF at runtime >$1000 and onwards (beyond first 4K): loaded into $2000 and onwards at >runtime. >If VACS knew this it would make things a lot easier. well, with the second 4k loaded in $2000, thus exceeding the page boundary and reverting to $0000 addresses on page 1, you'll have to set it manually to org 0000h again: 0000 0000 org 0000H ; first 4k, $0000/page 0 0000 first: 0000 0C0003 loda,r0 here1 0003 here1: 0003 10 db 10h 0004 [..] 0FFF 0000 org 0000H ; we're now on $1000, which resides at $2000, that is $0000/page1 0000 second: 0000 0C0003 loda,r0 here2 0003 0003 here2: 0003 20 db 20h as you can't do a direct page boundary load in the first page, e.g. 0004 loda,r0 here2 which compiles fine, but is obviously wrong, you have to use indirect addressing mode. You can't use org 2000h in the second page, because VACS tries to fit the 2000h in the 13bits which fails. Ok, now how to branch to "second" ? 0004 1F0000 bcta,un second compiles to the wrong address (0000 instead of 2000h). Well. How to accommodate this? Don't know. You could always specify the page if you're doing page jumps: page0 equ 0 page1 equ 2000h 0004 1F2000 bcta,un second+page1 Or how about adding a PAGE statement (as PAGE is already defined, but is the same as PGLEN this shouldn't be a problem at all) like this? org 0000h page 0 ; 0 = default first: 0000 1F2000 bcta,un second org 0000h page 1 ; we're on $2000 second: 0000 1F0000 bcta,un first hmmm.....or maybe i'll change the expression range check (which currently checks if the range is in between 0 - 8192 (2000h). so this should work: org 0000H ; first 4k, $0000/page 0 first: loda,r0 here1 bcta,un second here1: db 10h org 2000H ; we're now on $1000, which resides at $2000, that is $0000/page1 second: loda,r0 here2 bcta,un first loda,r0 here1 ;<- error here2: db 20h That means, the rangecheck has to check first the current org and then does a range check (except for the branches). I think this would be nice. yes. are there any drawbacks? What do you think? 1457 From: "cydocydo" Date: Mon Apr 7, 2003 1:56am Subject: Re: Programming: LODZ r0 = iorz r0 ? cydocydo I've done the latter one, because it didn't required any big modifications at all. take a look at vacs 1.24g\ examples\pageboundary.asm Also new statement added: dbfill , (like db dup in other assemblers). And made some other fixes. cya d 1458 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Mon Apr 7, 2003 3:46pm Subject: Re: Programming: LODZ r0 = iorz r0 ? amigansoftware > >A few random suggestions for VACS: > > * unimportant: allow $1234 style of hex numbers (Amiga-style) > > lodi,r0 $12 ; already works fine > loda,r0 $1234 ; already works fine > Silly me :-) I just assumed it did not support them... :-( > > * unimportant: allow X1234 style of hex numbers (DASMX-style) > > I've tried to include it, but there is a problem regarding > labels - and your fixer does a great job... heheheh, thanks... 1459 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Apr 10, 2003 5:57pm Subject: Space War cart received stefanpiasecki Good morning, Klaus Seiner from Austria was so kind to trade his Space War prototype cart against a boxed copy of TVG 3D Soccer. I played and opened the cart yesterday and indeed it seems to be a prototype since an Eprom is used inside the cart. The game has no time-limit, unlike all later versions. The ROM reads 8150, which probably means that the Eprom was produced (probably not the content) around the 50th weeks of 1981 - making it probably one of the first games. Since in a later "Space Attack"-ROM the message "galax.002" was found, I wonder if there's any message in this cart. PeT, didn't you dump it? Is there anything inside? The start screen shows "UAL", unlike other games which wear the "UA Ltd." marking. "UAL" is also printed on all the pcb's. So one of the earlier assumptions, that the Hong Kong based hardware manufacturer UAL at some point probably first pooled already existing 2650 programmers and their games and then entered the game development arena, seems to be true. Since other games like Space Mission or Soccer existed also on all the older systems (MPT-03, Palladium) and never had any copright notice unless they were released for the Arcadia which then said "(C) UA Ltd." on the box (game wasn't changed at all) this seemed to have been the case. Whether this venture was somehow supported by Philips/Signetics or not. Now it seems that after the first unorganized attempts to establish a "pirate-system" (hidden mission, mysterious flag, sailing in all waters) on the market (MPT-03, Palladium, Ormatu etc.) were obviously somehow successful, that around the end of 1981 / beginning of 1982 they started an organized promotion and roll-out campaign of games and systems. I wonder if any large fair or show took place around these dates where this system could have been promotoed first. These little HK-men will most likely not have travelled through the world with some of their prototypes in their backpacks. Stefan 1460 From: "axtelius2001" Date: Thu Apr 10, 2003 6:58pm Subject: Gundam and Macross (again) axtelius2001 Could the owner of the 2 carts please get in touch with me (I assume he's on this list). /frax 1461 From: "swstiletto" Date: Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:34am Subject: Re: Signetics 2637 UVI swstiletto --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "swstiletto" wrote: > Greetings. :) > > Could someone please temporarily (Hans-Heinz?) upload the Signetics > 2637 UVI programming manual again somewhere, please? > > Thanks, > Stiletto > http://www.mame.net I'll take it, that's a "NO"? PeT's already told me he can't. So does anyone else have it? 1462 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:18pm Subject: Re: Re: Signetics 2637 UVI grumpfix > > >>Could someone please temporarily (Hans-Heinz?) upload the >> >> >Signetics > > >>2637 UVI programming manual again somewhere, please? >> >>Thanks, >>Stiletto >>http://www.mame.net >> >> > >I'll take it, that's a "NO"? > >PeT's already told me he can't. So does anyone else have it? > > I said it's a big upload. And only because it's you or MAME I will not do it. It depends on the guy, what he can offer or what he wants to do with it, if I would invest significant time. (and definitely on his communication style; no description where you got my email; no short introduction what you are doing (I know it from MAMEDEV, but this is over a year ago) ...) Even something like a comprehensive public documentation archive would be a good reason for me. Peter PS: download Paul Robson's technical reference with my additions from the file area and send it to Zsolt. 1463 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:50pm Subject: Re: Signetics 2637 UVI mc71de Hi Peter, hi all... --- Peter Trauner wrote: > >>Could someone please temporarily (Hans-Heinz?) upload the > >Signetics 2637 UVI programming manual again somewhere, please? > I said it's a big upload. > And only because it's you or MAME I will not do it. ...and a simple search of the message archive for 'UVI' gives instructions how to get access to the size-reduced, contrast- enhanced version i made (i don't read the list regularly at the moment because my internet connection is buggy; a personal mail will reach me faster...) > It depends on the guy, what he can offer or what he wants to do with it, > if I would invest significant time. They are still up, i just don't post a link because it's huge and traffic on yahoo sites is limited... but it'd be nice to know who this guy is anyway. I'm not familiar with the MAME people at all... > Even something like a comprehensive public documentation > archive would be a good reason for me. That'd be a great idea. Does anyone want to put it online? BTW: Happy Easter to all in advance... -mc 1464 From: "Hans-Heinz Bieling" Date: Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:32am Subject: Re: Re: Signetics 2637 UVI hanhein Hi Stiletto, seems that I deleted my files. Ask -mc (Max) for a copy of it. -HHB ----- Original Message ----- From: swstiletto To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 12:34 AM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Signetics 2637 UVI --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "swstiletto" stiletto@f...> wrote:> Greetings. :)> > Could someone please temporarily (Hans-Heinz?) upload the Signetics > 2637 UVI programming manual again somewhere, please?> > Thanks,> Stiletto> http://www.mame.netI'll take it, that's a "NO"?PeT's already told me he can't. So does anyone else have it?To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 1465 From: "swstiletto" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2003 10:32am Subject: Re: Signetics 2637 UVI swstiletto --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > I said it's a big upload. Sorry, I hadn't seen mc71de's previous email. 87MB? WTH! 6MB is a bit more like it. > And only because it's you or MAME I will not do it. No worries, I can get it from mc, er, "Max," since he offered so nicely. Max? > It depends on the guy, what he can offer or what he wants to do with it, > if I would invest significant time. > (and definitely on his communication style; Yeah, I can be a bit abrupt, emailing out of the blue. :( > no description where you got my email; One of your drivers in MAME/MESS, I forget which. > no short introduction what you are doing (I know it from MAMEDEV, but > this is over a year ago) Well, as I said, I was trying to get some stuff together for Zsolt, I'm reorganizing MAMEDEV's private FTP server at some point (in particular the DOCS folder), and... > Even something like a comprehensive public documentation archive would > be a good reason for me. This is my plan for the long run. At some point, I plan to have a documentation archive either uploaded to my website or linked from my website MAME Research. (http://research.mame.net) I'm still navigating the legal waters... You think Phillips would mind if this got distributed? ;) Considering they probably only sent the in-depth info to people who signed a NDA or something. I have no idea how they operate, every electronics company does things a little differently. > PS: > download Paul Robson's technical reference with my additions from the > file area and > send it to Zsolt. Will do. Would that be "ARCADIA.TXT" in the root directory? To be honest, he said he's working on rewriting the 2636 PVI emulation in MAME. But I have heard, somewhere, that the two chips are similar? So that's what sparked my investigation. Furthermore, if said provider of 2637 UVI also had 2636 PVI, or knew someone who still did, that could be a big help. There's hardly any info out there on it other than what has been reverse-engineered and the one-page flyer on Al Kossow's Wiretap Archive (http://www.spies.com/~arcade/dataSheets/signetics/) and some German computer programming booklet from way back. (I think this is what PeT referred to in our private email, wasn't it, PeT?) I'm all about obtaining original documentation, as I am no reverse- engineer, no sirree... online and offline research is my game... ----------------------------- --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de" wrote: > ...and a simple search of the message archive for 'UVI' gives > instructions how to get access to the size-reduced, contrast- > enhanced version i made (i don't read the list regularly at the > moment because my internet connection is buggy; a personal mail will > reach me faster...) Yez, I'm known among MAME developers for my research but I hadn't read further into the Yahoo Group, other than that message Hanz-Heinz Bieling posted, being the original source of the documentation. I apologize. The rush of finding official documentation went to my head. It won't happen again. :) > They are still up, i just don't post a link because it's huge and > traffic on yahoo sites is limited... but it'd be nice to know who > this guy is anyway. I'm not familiar with the MAME people at all... Here's the hidden homepage on my website, but it's not much to speak of: http://research.mame.net/index2.htm See also: http://research.mame.net/intro.htm About me: I've been involved with MAME since about 1997/98 as a messageboard regular, but it wasn't until early-1999 when I discovered I had a talent for finding things online that MAMEDEV considered valuable. I was added to the MAMEDEV mailing list in mid-1999. Since then, I've been responsible on turning up documentation on a vast variety of CPUs and other microprocessors, which have helped improve the emulation (reverse-engineering will only get you so far - then again, documentation will only get you so far), including: Sanyo VLM5030, Yamaha YM3812, Yamaha YMF262, another not-mentionable-in-public Yamaha chip, and many other Yamaha datasheets were additionally uploaded to MAMEDEV, Fujitsu MB86235, Ensoniq ES5505/06 and another Ensoniq chip, Texas Instruments TMS5110 and TMS5220 (and TMS5100 and TMS5200, for that matter), NEC uPD7759, Sygnetics S2650 and S2636, Hitachi HD38880 (another recent acquisition), Analog Devices ADSP2110, AT&T DSP32C, OKI MSM6295, General Instrument SP-0250 and SP- 0256. So, I'm a "gofer". Go fer this, go fer that. ;) Of that all, so far, I've only been credited in the Taito F3 driver (with Ian Schmidt) for helping, as well as the brand-new YMF262 emulation. It's mainly something I do that goes unnoticed by everyone except the developers. It's not exactly something you get credit for on the WIP page. BUT! Recently, I WAS mentioned. http://www.mame.net/wip0303.html "2003-03-24: Bryan McPhail sent in a major update to the Deco32 driver, making Dragon Gun playable, Locked 'n Loaded almost playable and Tattoo Assassins fully playable with graphics, thanks to Stiletto for tracking down a working boardset of this ultra rare game." :-D I've additionally searched for information on Atari CAGE audio, Midway Zeus video, Midway/Williams Digital Compression System (DCS), and the Intel I750 processor for MAMEDEV, as well as many other arcade systems, arcade games, and arcade developers. I've been credited in helping other emulators also with my talents, including Virtua, Modeler, SMOG, RAINE, DOSBOX and the soundcard emulator VDMSound. I've provided emulation news to Retrogames, SYS2064, CAESAR, Emaculation and VintageGaming, and done research for System16.com, Targets.MAME.net, UnMamed.MAME.net and EmuStatus.Rainemu.com for their websites. I'm a moderator at the forum called VOGONS (http://vogons.zetafleet.com) and also an administrator of OpenGlide (http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/openglide). So, a lot of nothing. :) About MAME: See http://www.mame.net > That'd be a great idea. Does anyone want to put it online? As I said, I plan on it... :) Sorry to be a nuisance. Kinda stepped the wrong foot forward on this one. Looking forward to your reply, Max... (private if you have to...) (BTW, I must admit, this Arcadia computer sounds really interesting! I for one at that time owned a Texas Instruments TI-99/4A.) - Stiletto 1466 From: Peter Trauner Date: Wed Apr 16, 2003 4:52pm Subject: Re: Re: Signetics 2637 UVI grumpfix swstiletto wrote: >--- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner > wrote: > > >>I said it's a big upload. >> >> > >Sorry, I hadn't seen mc71de's previous email. 87MB? WTH! 6MB is a bit >more like it. > > I wrote (uvi manual related): >The 19 page uvi2637 manual is 6.6 MByte big. > (tv spielcomputer related books/pvi/usg2621) >The books are too big again (5 or 60 MByte, 10 Mbyte). > > For me means 6.6MByte half an hour upload/online time. >>no description where you got my email; >> >> > >One of your drivers in MAME/MESS, I forget which. > > Ah, an old version arcadia driver. >>Even something like a comprehensive public documentation archive >> >> >would > > >>be a good reason for me. >> >> > >This is my plan for the long run. At some point, I plan to have a >documentation archive either uploaded to my website or linked from my >website MAME Research. (http://research.mame.net) > > Great news. >I'm still navigating the legal waters... You think Phillips would >mind if this got distributed? ;) Considering they probably only sent >the in-depth info to people who signed a NDA or something. I have no >idea how they operate, every electronics company does things a little >differently. > > I really don't know. >>PS: >>download Paul Robson's technical reference with my additions from >> >> >the > > >>file area and >>send it to Zsolt. >> >> > >Will do. Would that be "ARCADIA.TXT" in the root directory? > > I think so. >To be honest, he said he's working on rewriting the 2636 PVI >emulation in MAME. But I have heard, somewhere, that the two chips >are similar? So that's what sparked my investigation. > > They are very different. If Zsolt is interested in rewriting the pvi 2636 emulation, he might want to contact me. (timing not accurate enough for every game, probably 1 or 2 bugs left; the vc4000 games are really beasty). >Furthermore, if said provider of 2637 UVI also had 2636 PVI, or knew >someone who still did, that could be a big help. There's hardly any >info out there on it other than what has been reverse-engineered and >the one-page flyer on Al Kossow's Wiretap Archive >(http://www.spies.com/~arcade/dataSheets/signetics/) and some German >computer programming booklet from way back. (I think this is what PeT >referred to in our private email, wasn't it, PeT?) > > Did I? >About me: >I've been involved with MAME since about 1997/98 as a messageboard >regular, but it wasn't until early-1999 when I discovered I had a >talent for finding things online that MAMEDEV considered valuable. I >was added to the MAMEDEV mailing list in mid-1999. Since then, I've >been responsible on turning up documentation on a vast variety of >CPUs and other microprocessors, which have helped improve the >emulation (reverse-engineering will only get you so far - then again, >documentation will only get you so far), including: Sanyo VLM5030, >Yamaha YM3812, Yamaha YMF262, another not-mentionable-in-public >Yamaha chip, and many other Yamaha datasheets were additionally >uploaded to MAMEDEV, Fujitsu MB86235, Ensoniq ES5505/06 and another >Ensoniq chip, Texas Instruments TMS5110 and TMS5220 (and TMS5100 and >TMS5200, for that matter), NEC uPD7759, Sygnetics S2650 and S2636, >Hitachi HD38880 (another recent acquisition), Analog Devices >ADSP2110, AT&T DSP32C, OKI MSM6295, General Instrument SP-0250 and SP- >0256. > >So, I'm a "gofer". Go fer this, go fer that. ;) > >Of that all, so far, I've only been credited in the Taito F3 driver >(with Ian Schmidt) for helping, as well as the brand-new YMF262 >emulation. It's mainly something I do that goes unnoticed by everyone >except the developers. It's not exactly something you get credit for >on the WIP page. > >BUT! Recently, I WAS mentioned. >http://www.mame.net/wip0303.html >"2003-03-24: Bryan McPhail sent in a major update to the Deco32 >driver, making Dragon Gun playable, Locked 'n Loaded almost playable >and Tattoo Assassins fully playable with graphics, thanks to Stiletto >for tracking down a working boardset of this ultra rare game." > >:-D > >I've additionally searched for information on Atari CAGE audio, Midway >Zeus video, Midway/Williams Digital Compression System (DCS), and the >Intel I750 processor for MAMEDEV, as well as many other arcade >systems, arcade games, and arcade developers. > >I've been credited in helping other emulators also with my talents, >including Virtua, Modeler, SMOG, RAINE, DOSBOX and the soundcard >emulator VDMSound. > >I've provided emulation news to Retrogames, SYS2064, CAESAR, >Emaculation and VintageGaming, and done research for System16.com, >Targets.MAME.net, UnMamed.MAME.net and EmuStatus.Rainemu.com for >their websites. > >I'm a moderator at the forum called VOGONS >(http://vogons.zetafleet.com) and also an administrator of OpenGlide >(http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/openglide). > >So, a lot of nothing. :) > > I ment a short description. :-) Peter 1467 From: "swstiletto" Date: Sun Apr 20, 2003 5:16pm Subject: Re: Signetics 2637 UVI swstiletto --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > (tv spielcomputer related books/pvi/usg2621) > For me means 6.6MByte half an hour upload/online time. Sorry - high-speed Internet at universities has spoiled me. I'll ask this Max chap for a copy then. > They are very different. Okay, I can shoot that source. Thanks. > If Zsolt is interested in rewriting the pvi 2636 emulation, > he might want to contact me. > (timing not accurate enough for every game, probably 1 or 2 bugs left; > the vc4000 games are really beasty). Will see that he does so. Thanks for putting up with me, Peter. :) 1468 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Apr 25, 2003 9:22pm Subject: Found Blackjack&Poker for MPT-03 stefanpiasecki The game was even sealed with the protective-band of paper around the cart. Unbelievable. Also Circus came with it and some other rare games like Golf (also complete). Does anybody have a complete list of MPT-carts? My highest no is #27 Escape I believe. Stefan 1469 From: "Matthew Robert Reichert" Date: Fri Apr 25, 2003 10:21pm Subject: Re: Found Blackjack&Poker for MPT-03 tempest_2084 You lucky bastard! Where on each did you manage to get a hold of so many rare MPT-03 games? I have a incomplete list that I found somewhere years ago, but I doubt its 100% accurate. Does your copy of Golf work properly? We all know mine was a dud. Tempest > > The game was even sealed with the protective-band of paper around the > cart. Unbelievable. Also Circus came with it and some other rare > games like Golf (also complete). Does anybody have a complete list of > MPT-carts? My highest no is #27 Escape I believe. > Stefan > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > ******************************************************************************* Matthew Reichert Tempest@... Http://www.atariprotos.com Atari Collector Atari Historical Society Member Phi Mu Alpha Alumni ******************************************************************************* 1470 From: "cydocydo" Date: Wed Apr 30, 2003 0:45am Subject: Cart Commander Arcadia Media List cydocydo Hi all, first a short introduction: The Arcadia was my first console ever (the german palladium version), since then I've moved over to the C64 and 1990 to the PC. I'm a proud owner of one of Ward Shrake's Arcadia Multicarts (great work!), but somehow missed this newsgroup ;-) I'm an arcade machines/pcbs collector and as a programmer I've ported and updated the VACs assembler (programming tools\) and recently I've compiled the arcadia media list for Brien King's Cart Commander: http://www.arcaderestoration.com/index.asp?OPT=10&DATA=10&CBT=20 the media list is based on the lists made by Ward Shrake and Sylvain De Chantal and is available at www.rype.de/cydo/arcadia_media_hardware.zip Suggestions, corrections & bug fixes are truly welcome! Regards Dennis 1471 From: "Rikard Ljungkvist" Date: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:23am Subject: A couple of Arcadia items for sale dum_eller Hi! Just wanted to ask in this list before going "public" with my sale. I have two rare Japanese Arcadia games to sell; Dr. No and Doreamon (hope I got the titles correct). One is in very good condition (complete) and the other one is mint, still in shrinkwrap. Please let me know if you are interested (by mail) and if so, please make me an offer. Please ask for pictures if you need any! Thanks! Best Regards, Rikard 1472 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Wed Apr 30, 2003 10:55am Subject: RE: A couple of Arcadia items for sale mrhaboobi hi rikard, id be interested, are you into trades? -----Original Message-----From: Rikard Ljungkvist [mailto:rlj@home.se] Sent: Wednesday, 30 April 2003 12:24 p.m.To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.comSubject: [arcadia2001consoles] A couple of Arcadia items for saleHi!Just wanted to ask in this list before going "public" with my sale. I havetwo rare Japanese Arcadia games to sell; Dr. No and Doreamon (hope I got thetitles correct). One is in very good condition (complete) and the other oneis mint, still in shrinkwrap. Please let me know if you are interested (bymail) and if so, please make me an offer.Please ask for pictures if you need any!Thanks!Best Regards, RikardTo unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.comYour use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 1473 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu May 1, 2003 1:35am Subject: Re: A couple of Arcadia items for sale slapdash26 "Rikard Ljungkvist" wrote: > Just wanted to ask in this list before going "public" with my sale. I have > two rare Japanese Arcadia games to sell; Dr. No and Doreamon (hope I got the > titles correct). Almost! I'll think that Doraemon was just a typo or a transposition (which I also did typing it just now :-), but you obviously have Bond, James Bond, on your mind, as that title is Dr. Slump, not Dr. No. //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1475 From: "landsmarra" Date: Sat May 24, 2003 0:58pm Subject: Anyone want to part with their Arcadia multicart landsmarra Hi guys, Some of you may recognize my handle from AtariAge or Digital Press. So, anyone wanna sell their multicart? If not, someone here willing or able to build one? If not, anyone happen to know where the ROMS that are on the multicart might be archived? Thanks, Steve 1476 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Tue May 27, 2003 1:48am Subject: Re: Anyone want to part with their Arcadia multicart stefanpiasecki Ask Ward Shrake, the manufacturer of the original multicarts if he has some left. If you want, I can ask him as well. I think it is just fair that those carts get sold by the guy who invented them. Lately he applied an update. I have an updated cart but I am pretty sure that more than 95% of the existing carts lack some very interesting games. SO asking Ward is definitely worth it. Stefan 1477 From: landsmarra@... Date: Mon May 26, 2003 11:39pm Subject: Re: Re: Anyone want to part with their Arcadia multicart landsmarra Hi there, Thanks for the reply! I asked Ward several months ago and was told...no, no more to be made. You think he changed his mind? Steve 1478 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Tue May 27, 2003 3:55pm Subject: Re: Anyone want to part with their Arcadia multicart stefanpiasecki Hi Steve, no, he didn't change his mind, but maybe he has one left. Try to get it signed! I have #2 and I am pretty proud on it. "Pull the Ward, man". Stefan 1479 From: landsmarra@... Date: Tue May 27, 2003 6:42pm Subject: Re: Re: Anyone want to part with their Arcadia multicart landsmarra Stefan, Apparently he has none left as he didn't offer me one from his last email. His only offer of assistance was to sell me a non-guaranteed pre-programmed EPROM chip to do with as we please. He wasn't sure of the contents of the EPROM though. This isn't getting easier. Steve 1480 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Tue May 27, 2003 11:01pm Subject: Good news, Macross and Gundam axtelius2001 Just got a phonecall from my girlfriend. A package from Japan has arrived. I managed to pick up loose copies of Gundam and Macross from a collector in Japan. Ill dump them this weekend, verify them against the dumps I already have and release them to you all on saturday. /frax 1481 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed May 28, 2003 0:44am Subject: Re: Good news, Macross and Gundam slapdash26 "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > Just got a phonecall from my girlfriend. A package from Japan has > arrived. I managed to pick up loose copies of Gundam and Macross from a > collector in Japan. Ill dump them this weekend, verify them against the > dumps I already have and release them to you all on saturday. Awesome... I'm looking forward to it. Now if I could only find the carts for myself! //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1482 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Wed May 28, 2003 8:42pm Subject: Re: Good news, Macross and Gundam amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > Just got a phonecall from my girlfriend. A package from Japan has > arrived. I managed to pick up loose copies of Gundam and Macross from a > collector in Japan. Ill dump them this weekend, verify them against the > dumps I already have and release them to you all on saturday. > > /frax Gundam definitely needs to be redumped :-( I have found 9 bad bytes so far... 1483 From: "landsmarra" Date: Thu May 29, 2003 4:16am Subject: Anyone have a Grandstand/MPT03 Crazy Climber to sell/trade? landsmarra Hi all, I never come across this kind of stuff on eBay. Steve 1485 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Mon Jun 2, 2003 6:12pm Subject: Re: Anyone have a Grandstand/MPT03 Crazy Climber to sell/trade? stefanpiasecki Yep, it is very rare. I have one but don't have a spare copy. I have some other rare MPT-games, if you are interested. A boxed Combat for instance and some others. Must check.... Stefan 1486 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Mon Jun 2, 2003 6:13pm Subject: Re: Good news, Macross and Gundam stefanpiasecki Hi, so did the earlier dumps work at all? Or did they crash at some point? Stefan 1487 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 5:47am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Temporary_files/GD.zip Uploaded by : axtelius2001 Description : Gundam dumped by frax You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/GD.zip To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, axtelius2001 1488 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 5:47am Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Temporary_files/MC.zip Uploaded by : axtelius2001 Description : Macross dumped by frax You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/MC.zip To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, axtelius2001 1489 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 5:51am Subject: Re: Re: Good news, Macross and Gundam axtelius2001 There where several problems running the dumps in MESS. James who was the only one to recive a copy of the dumps has worked out some of the problems but thinks the dumps for Gundam are bad. How ever, the new dumps I just uploaded are identical to the previous ones so I do belive my dumps are correct. James, if you have any MESS fixed dumps, go ahead and upload them. /frax ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stefan Piasecki" To: Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:13 AM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Good news, Macross and Gundam > Hi, so did the earlier dumps work at all? Or did they crash at some > point? > Stefan > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1490 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 5:52am Subject: Gundam and Macross axtelius2001 finaly released, didn't have the time to do it this weekend as I promised but here they are. Enjoy! /frax 1491 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 9:11am Subject: Re: Gundam and Macross slapdash26 "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > finaly released, didn't have the time to do it this weekend as I promised > but here they are. Enjoy! Ah, thanks much man! //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1493 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 0:40pm Subject: Re: Good news, Macross and Gundam amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Fredrik Axtelius" wrote: > There where several problems running the dumps in MESS. James who was the > only one to recive a copy of the dumps has worked out some of the problems > but thinks the dumps for Gundam are bad. > > How ever, the new dumps I just uploaded are identical to the previous ones > so I do belive my dumps are correct. > > James, if you have any MESS fixed dumps, go ahead and upload them. Macross seems to be fine. I have fixed some problems with Gundam but there are many remaining, it is only a V0.1 patch. Only level 1 is currently at all playable. It would be helpful to know the intended behaviour of the game, is there anyone who has played the original? > /frax > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stefan Piasecki" > To: > Sent: Monday, June 02, 2003 10:13 AM > Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Good news, Macross and Gundam > > > > Hi, so did the earlier dumps work at all? Or did they crash at some > > point? > > Stefan > > > > > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > 1494 From: Peter Trauner Date: Wed Jun 4, 2003 2:31pm Subject: Re: Gundam and Macross grumpfix Hello Fredrik, >finaly released, didn't have the time to do it this weekend as I promised >but here they are. Enjoy! > > Thanks for dumping and sharing. Macross looks like working fine. Gundam doesn't work on my Palladium VCG (early board version, non-autocentering analog sticks, PAL). I doubt this is a problem with my console (all other games work). Similar behaviour on my emulator (what authentic). Differences between your dump and James hack proove also this dump is bad. I had 1 verified stable bad dump on arcadia cartridges ago (small power supply on my eprommer device; when I used labour power supply for dumping the dump was okay) Peter 1495 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Tue Jun 10, 2003 11:38am Subject: Re: Gundam and Macross amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Hello Fredrik, > > >finaly released, didn't have the time to do it this weekend as I promised > >but here they are. Enjoy! > > > > > Thanks for dumping and sharing. > > Macross looks like working fine. > Gundam doesn't work on my Palladium VCG (early board version, > non-autocentering analog sticks, PAL). > I doubt this is a problem with my console (all other games work). > Similar behaviour on my emulator (what authentic). > Differences between your dump and James hack proove also this dump is bad. > > I had 1 verified stable bad dump on arcadia cartridges ago > (small power supply on my eprommer device; > when I used labour power supply for dumping the dump was okay) > > Peter Frederik, maybe it would be a good idea to lend the Gundam cart to PeT for dumping? 1498 From: "landsmarra" Date: Sat Jun 28, 2003 0:04am Subject: Question about two bin files... landsmarra Hi guys, In the big repository of Arcadia ROMS that amigansoftware was nice enough to point out http://users.bigpond.com/james.jacobs/index.html, there are two files, vidlexeg.bin and vidlexge.bin that at almost 13K each seem to be larger than the addressable space of the Arcadia. Can someone tell me what these files are and if they require some sort of bankswitching? Thanks, Steve 1499 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Jun 28, 2003 1:37am Subject: Re: Question about two bin files... slapdash26 "landsmarra" wrote: >In the big repository of Arcadia ROMS that amigansoftware was nice >enough to point out http://users.bigpond.com/james.jacobs/index.html, >there are two files, vidlexeg.bin and vidlexge.bin that at almost 13K >each seem to be larger than the addressable space of the Arcadia. >Can someone tell me what these files are and if they require some >sort of bankswitching? I don't know anything about the size or the bankswitching, but these are dumps of the "Video Lexicon" sub-cartridges (German and English). If you haven't heard of this, "Video Lexicon" is the mother cartridge, and it takes two daughter cartridges, of which I think German and English are the only known ones, but the system seems to be made up to accept others. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1500 From: landsmarra@... Date: Sat Jun 28, 2003 2:31am Subject: Re: Question about two bin files... landsmarra Thanks for the info. Any idea if the ROMs are usable on a real Arcadia or just an emulator? BTW, did you get the Mattel CDS carts? Steve 1501 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Jun 28, 2003 7:32am Subject: Re: Question about two bin files... mc71de Hi Steve, --- landsmarra@a... wrote: > Thanks for the info. Adding to what Russ said: They should work fine in any MESS version that supports 'VCG' driver (haven't tried James' version-created my own- see below) ; i will polish my self-made video-lexokon docs tomorrow... >Any idea if the ROMs are usable on a real Arcadia or >just an emulator? Well... *sigh* they would run on the machine, but severely miss some extra keys (the Palladium VCG and some other machines had larger keypads); so you'd have a hard time typing words without letters a-c for example... leave alone some issues with one address line not present on all arcadia consoles. For the question of file sizes: Video Lexikon has three ROMs at 4k each, evenly spread over the Arcadia's address range (start address $0000, $2000, $4000). Point is: the upper two roms (the 'vocabulary') can be plugged in either way around (determining the direction of translation- but that can also be swapped lateron 'in the game'). Since the emulator isn't prepared to handle this, you need two files: german-english, with 'master'-'german'-'4k fill bytes'-'english' and english-german, with 'master'-'english'-'4K fill bytes'-'german' where the 4k filler is required to put the second language rom where it is supposed to be (a dirty kludge, but it works) And last not least: There are provisions (inside the master rom) for language cartridges of french, italian and iirc spanish... but where the screen messages are translated into german, the other languages have the english messages; so i dare to assume these weren't as far developed by then. Would be interesting what happened if one modified the 'german' ROM in a way it were recognized as french- would the main engine still work, or badly crash? And: would it be possible to reverse-engineer the data format of the language carts, finally adding The Missing Three after some 22 years? Who knows... -mc (no- i better not declare myself back to business this time- but i'll try to *g*) 1502 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Tue Jul 22, 2003 10:58am Subject: Scanned manuals amigansoftware Does anyone have any scanned manuals for EA2001 that they would like typed up into ASCII/PDF/etc. format? As about half the games don't have manuals available. (See the Gaming Guide on my site for exactly what manuals are and are not available.) 1503 From: "Ian Williams" Date: Wed Jul 30, 2003 10:17pm Subject: Rowtron MPT-03 ianvimvim Hello, I hope you don't mind me posting here. I have at least 10 original boxed Rowtron MPT-03 consoles (no games) that my father rescued from a skip some years ago. Any ideas on what I should do with them? I need to get rid of them soon (house move), so unless they are wanted they will probably get taken to the tip. Thanks Ian Williams 1504 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jul 31, 2003 2:26am Subject: Re: Rowtron MPT-03 grumpfix Ian Williams wrote: >I hope you don't mind me posting here. I have at least 10 original >boxed Rowtron MPT-03 consoles (no games) that my father rescued from >a skip some years ago. Any ideas on what I should do with them? I >need to get rid of them soon (house move), so unless they are wanted >they will probably get taken to the tip. > > Sell them, probably at ebay. Or let me/us know what you want for 1 or 2 of them (including shipment to Austria). (I assume money transfer costs to GB). Peter 1505 From: "Ian Williams" Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 1:49am Subject: Re: Rowtron MPT-03 ianvimvim > Or let me/us know what you want for 1 or 2 of them (including shipment > to Austria). > (I assume money transfer costs to GB). > Hi Peter, Thanks for the reply. My dad can't be bothered to deal on e-bay (plus i wouldn't know what to ask for them!). If you can arrange shipping of some sort then they are yours for free, if you want them. I'll bin what you don't want. Cheers Ian 1506 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 3:15am Subject: Re: Rowtron MPT-03 slapdash26 Ian, I had also inquired about the cartridges by private mail... Did you get my note? I haven't seen a reply... At 3:49 PM +0000 8/3/03, Ian Williams wrote: >> Or let me/us know what you want for 1 or 2 of them (including >shipment >> to Austria). >> (I assume money transfer costs to GB). >Hi Peter, > >Thanks for the reply. My dad can't be bothered to deal on e-bay >(plus i wouldn't know what to ask for them!). > >If you can arrange shipping of some sort then they are yours for >free, if you want them. I'll bin what you don't want. > >Cheers >Ian -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1507 From: "Greg Cook" Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 0:12pm Subject: RE: Re: Rowtron MPT-03 mrhaboobi Same here, private message was sent, Peter, if you happen to take the lot I know id be interested in one machine :) Cheers > -----Original Message----- > From: Russ Perry Jr [mailto:slapdash@...] > Sent: Monday, 4 August 2003 5:16 a.m. > To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Rowtron MPT-03 > > > Ian, I had also inquired about the cartridges by private > mail... Did you get my note? I haven't seen a reply... > > At 3:49 PM +0000 8/3/03, Ian Williams wrote: > >> Or let me/us know what you want for 1 or 2 of them (including > >shipment > >> to Austria). > >> (I assume money transfer costs to GB). > > >Hi Peter, > > > >Thanks for the reply. My dad can't be bothered to deal on e-bay > >(plus i wouldn't know what to ask for them!). > > > >If you can arrange shipping of some sort then they are yours for > >free, if you want them. I'll bin what you don't want. > > > >Cheers > >Ian > > -- > //*================================================================++ > || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || > || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || > ++================================================================*// > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> Free shipping on all inkjet > cartridge & refill kit orders to US & Canada. Low prices up > to 80% off. We have your brand: HP, Epson, Lexmark & more. http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5510 http://us.click.yahoo.com/GHXcIA/n.WGAA/ySSFAA/hWFolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 1508 From: "Rikard Ljungkvist" Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 2:57am Subject: Re: Re: Rowtron MPT-03 dum_eller Hi Ian! I have tried to mail you but I guess you have not received my mails. If you get any left after you have sent off to Peter please let me know since I am interested in the consoles myself. Best Regards, Rikard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ian Williams" To: Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 5:49 PM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Rowtron MPT-03 > > > Or let me/us know what you want for 1 or 2 of them (including > shipment > > to Austria). > > (I assume money transfer costs to GB). > > > > > Hi Peter, > > Thanks for the reply. My dad can't be bothered to deal on e-bay > (plus i wouldn't know what to ask for them!). > > If you can arrange shipping of some sort then they are yours for > free, if you want them. I'll bin what you don't want. > > Cheers > > Ian > > > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > 1509 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Aug 4, 2003 4:07pm Subject: Re: Re: Rowtron MPT-03 grumpfix Hello Ian, Ian Williams wrote: >>Or let me/us know what you want for 1 or 2 of them (including >> >> >shipment > > >>to Austria). >>(I assume money transfer costs to GB). >> >> >> > >Thanks for the reply. My dad can't be bothered to deal on e-bay >(plus i wouldn't know what to ask for them!). > If the console is * tested and working * in original package * complete with manual, cable, power supply controller a collector might spend about 50Euro in my opinion. (-15 Euro shipping postage, money transfer costs would give 35 Euro maximum ebay bid). >If you can arrange shipping of some sort then they are yours for >free, if you want them. I'll bin what you don't want. > > I would transfer the postage to your account/bank before you send them. (I don't know where you live exactly (I know only a few people in GB, and these contacts are not close)) Peter PS: I am not a collector, but I would appreciate one working console to build a multi-/developement cartridge for such consoles, and check the games behaviour (and compare with my emulator). 1510 From: "Ian Williams" Date: Mon Aug 11, 2003 11:16pm Subject: Sorry for the delays... ianvimvim My apologies to everyone who e-mailed me. The situation is that I don't have internet access, but my Dad does, so i am limited to looking at e-mails when I see him (3 or 4 times a month). I have relayed everything to him, but unfortunately because of an upcoming operation it will be a little while before we are in a position to ship any consoles. As I said, there are at least 10 units, all in original boxes and (as far as I know) complete but without carts. After the op, We'll take some digi photos and e-mail them to interested parties. It looks as though a fair price will be about 35 euros plus shipping per unit. Please let me know if this doesn't sound fair... Thanks for everyone's patience, and i will be back after Dad's operation to sort out details. Ian 1511 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Tue Aug 12, 2003 0:34am Subject: Re: Sorry for the delays... slapdash26 "Ian Williams" wrote: > My apologies to everyone who e-mailed me. > > The situation is that I don't have internet access, but my Dad does, > so i am limited to looking at e-mails when I see him (3 or 4 times a > month). I have relayed everything to him, but unfortunately because > of an upcoming operation it will be a little while before we are in a > position to ship any consoles. Ah... Thanks for the explanation etc. > As I said, there are at least 10 units, all in original boxes and (as > far as I know) complete but without carts. After the op, We'll take > some digi photos and e-mail them to interested parties. It looks as > though a fair price will be about 35 euros plus shipping per unit. > Please let me know if this doesn't sound fair... I'll have to see the photos. Normally, I'd like to get a cart or two, especially since (in my case, being in the US) shipping will raise that a bit. > Thanks for everyone's patience, and i will be back after Dad's > operation to sort out details. Well, I hope the operation goes well. Until then... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1513 From: "landsmarra" Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 6:42am Subject: Is there anyone out there still looking for an EA2K1 multicart? landsmarra Just curious...let me know at landsmarra@.... 1514 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 7:53am Subject: Re: Is there anyone out there still looking for an EA2K1 multicart? slapdash26 "landsmarra" wrote: > Just curious...let me know at landsmarra@.... Argh! I'm pretty sure there was someone on AtariAge looking for one, but it was long ago enough that I don't recall who. Perhaps you might search through there? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1515 From: "MICHAEL RAJNA" Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 8:37am Subject: Re: Is there anyone out there still looking for an EA2K1 multicart? shasta703 I'm definitely looking for 1! Please let me know... Thanks! >From: Russ Perry Jr >Reply-To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com >To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Is there anyone out there still looking >for an EA2K1 multicart? >Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:53:04 -0500 To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com From: Russ Perry Jr slapdash@r... Mailing-List: list arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com; contact arcadia2001consoles-owner@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri, 19 Sep 2003 16:53:04 -0500 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Is there anyone out there still looking for an EA2K1 multicart? "landsmarra" wrote: > Just curious...let me know at landsmarra@aol.com. Argh! I'm pretty sure there was someone on AtariAge looking for one, but it was long ago enough that I don't recall who. Perhaps you might search through there? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@rcn.com [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: arcadia2001consoles-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 1516 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Sep 20, 2003 1:53am Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles grumpfix arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: >Hello, > >This email message is a notification to let you know that >a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles >group. > > File : /Programming_examples/Binary_or_object_files/demo.zip > Uploaded by : amigansoftware > Description : Example of horizontal scrolling and multicolour sprites. > >You can access this file at the URL > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_examples/Binary_or_object_files/demo.zip > > Next time when I do something on my real console, I will test your demo on it. Peter 1517 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 3:45pm Subject: 2650 assembler or compiler for linux searched? grumpfix Hello, does anybody know an assembler for this cpu available for unix for free? or better a "barebone" c-compiler? Peter PS: I have been surprised how good the cc65 compiler/assembler package for the 6502 family is. 1518 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 6:05pm Subject: Re: 2650 assembler or compiler for linux searched? mc71de Hi there, --- Peter Trauner wrote: > does anybody know an assembler for this cpu > available for unix for free? Take a look at FrankenAsm: http://www.funet.fi/pub/microprocs/assemblers/ There seems to have been something by William C Colley, but i can't locate it :-( (for almost any other obscure micro, Alfred Arnold's 'AS' might be worth a look...) > or better a "barebone" c-compiler? > > Peter > > PS: I have been surprised how good the cc65 compiler/ > assembler package for the 6502 family is. I haven't looked at the code yet- would it be worth the trouble to make this package '2650-compliant', or at least force the compiler to output 2650 code? Considering its quality, i don't think a 'bare bone' compiler (if such a thing exists) could be any better. I'm not sure if CC65 does any code optimizing, and i might have to tinker with it soon, anyway... -mc (A.K.A. Mr. Slow^2) 1519 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Sep 21, 2003 10:52pm Subject: Re: Re: 2650 assembler or compiler for linux searched? grumpfix mc71de wrote: >>does anybody know an assembler for this cpu >>available for unix for free? >> >> > >Take a look at FrankenAsm: >http://www.funet.fi/pub/microprocs/assemblers/ > > Thanks, grabed and compiled. >>or better a "barebone" c-compiler? >> >>PS: I have been surprised how good the cc65 compiler/ >>assembler package for the 6502 family is. >> >> > >I haven't looked at the code yet- would it be worth the trouble to >make this package '2650-compliant', or at least force the compiler >to output 2650 code? Considering its quality, i don't think a 'bare >bone' compiler (if such a thing exists) could be any better. I'm not >sure if CC65 does any code optimizing, and i might have to tinker >with it soon, anyway... > > I have looked at the c side of cc65 only a little bit (I did my supervision tests in assembler, and found out for C support I have to do more then I needed/wanted). I don't expect much from a c-compiler for a 8bit cpu. From what I read it does a few "literal" (like 5+5) optimizations. Peter 1520 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Sep 22, 2003 5:05pm Subject: Re: 2650 assembler or compiler for linux searched? mc71de Hi all, --- Peter Trauner wrote: > mc71de wrote: > > >>does anybody know an assembler for this cpu > >>available for unix for free? > >Take a look at FrankenAsm: > >http://www.funet.fi/pub/microprocs/assemblers/ Just for the sake of completeliness: William Colley's 2650 assembler is here: http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/cug/vol_200/267_01.zip > Thanks, grabed and compiled. :-) > >>or better a "barebone" c-compiler? Although not wat you want either (it's Z80-based), but maybe the small c compilers at http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/cug/vol_100/00_index.htm and http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/cug/vol_200/00_index.htm might give a better starting point than CC65? Anyway, if you really want to write a c compiler for the 2650, you'll get in serious trouble with that machine's tiny stack. Unless you can run your program in RAM, it's getting really hard :-/ > >make [cc65] '2650-compliant' Well- not really a good idea. Too much code to re-write; unless there is a really big project, it won't be worth the time to adapt cc65 to *any* other target, i guess. Only possibility (if one would *really* want to use cc65) would be to take the assembler file and try to assemble 6502 assembly into the other processor's opcodes. Usually, such attempts lead to slow and big code... (yes, it has been done before- IBM claimed that CP/M-80 programs ran on PC-DOS by 'just re-assembling'. They ended up with half-way emulating the 8080 to work around the differences in the instruction sets...) -mc 1521 From: Peter Trauner Date: Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:01pm Subject: Re: Re: 2650 assembler or compiler for linux searched? grumpfix Hello mc, >Just for the sake of completeliness: William Colley's 2650 assembler >is here: http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/cug/vol_200/267_01.zip > > I will look at it. >>>>or better a "barebone" c-compiler? >>>> >>>> > >Although not wat you want either (it's Z80-based), but maybe the >small c compilers at >http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/cug/vol_100/00_index.htm >and >http://public.planetmirror.com/pub/cug/vol_200/00_index.htm >might give a better starting point than CC65? Anyway, if you really >want to write a c compiler for the 2650, you'll get in serious >trouble with that machine's tiny stack. Unless you can run your >program in RAM, it's getting really hard :-/ > > I only want to do a few test programs. But a z80gb C compiler for megaduck would be neat. Peter 1522 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Sep 25, 2003 0:53am Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles grumpfix > > >>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_examples/Binary_or_object_files/demo.zip >> >> >> >> >Next time when I do something on my real console, I will test your demo >on it. > > > Works on the real console as expected. Peter PS: 2650 overflow prooved on real console, fixed in the emulator/hack removed 1523 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Sep 27, 2003 7:33pm Subject: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 1) grumpfix Hello, In the attachment you find the game tetris. This is the first beta version (a slightly earlier version tested and working on the real hardware). Description: standard tetris supports 2 player mode (with penalty for the opposit if more then 1 line vanished) Todo: *testing (especially 2 player) *test on ntsc console *fix scoring currently hex, I haven't got bcd arithmetics working yet; does somebody know why following concept is not working? loda,r0 lowbyte ppsl WC cpsl C adda,r0 5 dar stra,r0 lowbyte loda,r0 highbyte addi,r0 0 stra,r0 highbyte cpsl WC * add acceptable melodies, effects (or disable them) somebody interesting in helping here (I hope I made them worse enough) (I would deliver vcg based composer (based on numeric tone,volume,duration list)) Remarks: low resolution/big tiles tilemap made developement more difficult few ram made developement more difficult limited assembler made it more difficult Peter PS: doesn't work in public MESS Attachment: (application/unix-tar) tetris_beta1.bin.gz [not stored] Attachment: (image/png) title.png [not stored] Attachment: (image/png) gameplay.png [not stored] 1524 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Sep 28, 2003 6:20pm Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 1) mc71de Hi Peter, --- Peter Trauner wrote: > In the attachment you find the game tetris. D'uh... missed this one... :-( Yahoo!Groups doesn't keep attachments in the message archive anymore, and i forgot to change my subscription to 'individual messages'. (Done that now) But form what you write, it sounds great! Thanks for taking the time to do it! (and thanks for verifying James' demo on the Real Thing!) > *test on ntsc console Is there anyone around who can do that? Or has anyone a spare NTSC console (no matter what condition) s/he could part with someone who can? > *fix scoring > currently hex, I haven't got bcd arithmetics working yet; > does somebody know why > following concept is not working? > loda,r0 lowbyte > ppsl WC > cpsl C > adda,r0 5 ********* Is this just a typo and should read addi,r0 5 or do you have the increment walue in memory location $0005? ********* > dar > stra,r0 lowbyte > loda,r0 highbyte > addi,r0 0 > stra,r0 highbyte > cpsl WC Theoretically, that looks fine and should give a three-digit BCD score; another DAR after the second ADDI should give 4-digit BCD. Have to test this in MESS' debugger... > Remarks: > low resolution/big tiles tilemap made developement more difficult > few ram made developement more difficult > limited assembler made it more difficult Too bad http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/as/ doesn't support our beloved 2650 (and it's written in C- which i still can't code in *sigh*) (speaking of C... try http://sdcc.sourceforge.net/ for a multi- target cross compiler, including Z80 and GB-Z80...) -mc PS, off-topic of anything Arcadia: Would you be surprised to hear that MESS' chess champion MK-1 emulation works perfectly (in v0.56 at least)? Got the manual of that beast... just press 1, then a, then your move and d for enter. (there is lots more, possibilities and drawbacks...) 1525 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Mon Sep 29, 2003 0:32pm Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 1) amigansoftware > > In the attachment you find the game tetris. Adam will be happy :-) > D'uh... missed this one... :-( > Yahoo!Groups doesn't keep attachments in the message archive > anymore, and i forgot to change my subscription to 'individual > messages'. (Done that now) Same here, missed it too :-) I was getting daily digests, I have now changed it to individual emails to avoid this problem. Probably it's a better idea for all files to go to the files area, would someone be able to upload it there please? > But form what you write, it sounds great! Thanks for taking the time > to do it! (and thanks for verifying James' demo on the Real Thing!) I'll have to rewrite multiplx.bin, I don't think it will work correctly on the Real Thing or MESS V2 due to timing differences. music.bin should probably work fine. > > loda,r0 lowbyte > > ppsl WC > > cpsl C > > adda,r0 5 > > ********* > Is this just a typo and should read > > addi,r0 5 > > or do you have the increment walue in memory location $0005? $0000-$0FFF is ROM, so it is a typo... > Too bad http://john.ccac.rwth-aachen.de:8000/as/ doesn't support our > beloved 2650 (and it's written in C- which i still can't code in > *sigh*) I always use VACS... 1528 From: Peter Trauner Date: Fri Oct 3, 2003 2:30am Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 1) grumpfix Hello, In the attachment you find beta2. >*fix scoring >currently hex, I haven't got bcd arithmetics working yet; does somebody >know why >following concept is not working? >loda,r0 lowbyte >ppsl WC >cpsl C >adda,r0 5 >dar >stra,r0 lowbyte >loda,r0 highbyte >addi,r0 0 >stra,r0 highbyte >cpsl WC >* add acceptable melodies, effects (or disable them) >somebody interesting in helping here (I hope I made them worse enough) >(I would deliver vcg based composer (based on numeric >tone,volume,duration list)) > > Thanks to James, score is working in decimal (must have seen this in the other games). (you have to do a addi $66 before dar). Peter Attachment: (application/unix-tar) tetris_beta2.bin.gz [not stored] 1529 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Oct 4, 2003 9:37pm Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) grumpfix Hello, in the attachment you find beta 3. Thanks to mc I changed the bcd scoring as intended. (changed binary constants to bcd constants, added 2650 dar fixup to constants, full word update). Peter Attachment: (application/unix-tar) tetris_beta3.bin.gz [not stored] 1531 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Thu Oct 9, 2003 5:39pm Subject: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found amigansoftware I got an email from Tom Pittman, the programmer of Grand Slam Tennis, today. He still has his (non-functional) development hardware too! I've invited him to join up here...maybe someone would like to do an interview? Maybe also he could have some of the official developer documentation still, which would be invaluable. Hopefully he will join soon... 1532 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Oct 10, 2003 3:04pm Subject: Re: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found slapdash26 At 7:39 AM +0000 10/9/03, amigansoftware wrote: > I got an email from Tom Pittman, the programmer of Grand Slam > Tennis, today. Awesome! Has he done any other games too? I mean, for any system? Is he in the UK, or Germany, or ??? > He still has his (non-functional) development hardware too! Bummer that it's non-functional... > Maybe also he could have some of the official developer > documentation still, which would be invaluable. That would be interesting... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1533 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu Oct 16, 2003 3:14pm Subject: Re: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found slapdash26 "amigansoftware" wrote: > I got an email from Tom Pittman, the programmer of Grand Slam Tennis, > today. He still has his (non-functional) development hardware too! > I've invited him to join up here...maybe someone would like to do an > interview? Dunno if you had anything to do with it, or if Tom contacted a bunch of people, but there's a page up about his game here: http://www.fatmangames.com/News/NewsViewer.asp?newsid=708 BTW, there IS one thing I might like to ask him... Could you perhaps forward my address to Tom? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1534 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:04pm Subject: Re: Gundam and Macross commie_fan Back on June 9th, 2003 (message #1495) there was a question asked. I have bulk-read every post since, but have not seen any answers. What's the latest information, in regards to that allegedly bad dump of Gundam? Has PeT re-dumped it since then? Or has someone else? No offense meant, but my two cents worth is that I tend to agree with PeT and Amigansoftware on dumps... just because the dumping device does the same thing, over and over, does NOT mean the dump is good. If they say its a bad dump, I trust them on it, and hope others will. So, what's the status on having it re-dumped? Any news, since June? Or is it still a bad dump, with no new dump having been made? -- Ward Shrake -- P.S. -- Yes, I'm still very much "retired". Please don't read too much into my public posting, or otherwise get your hopes up, folks. "amigansoftware" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner > wrote: > > Hello Fredrik, > (snip) > > > Thanks for dumping and sharing. > (snip) > > Frederik, maybe it would be a good idea to lend the Gundam cart to > PeT for dumping? 1535 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Thu Oct 16, 2003 5:06pm Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: > Hello, > > in the attachment you find beta 3. > > Thanks to mc I changed the bcd scoring as intended. > (changed binary constants to bcd constants, added > 2650 dar fixup to constants, full word update). > > Peter The attachment seems to already have expired. Any chance you can load the latest version onto the FILES section of this board? I'd like to burn it onto my personal multicart, and check it out, relatively soonish. (Along with anything else homebrewed or dumped recently.) -- Ward Shrake -- 1536 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:04am Subject: Re: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) grumpfix Ward Shrake wrote: >>in the attachment you find beta 3. >> >>Thanks to mc I changed the bcd scoring as intended. >>(changed binary constants to bcd constants, added >>2650 dar fixup to constants, full word update). >> >> > >The attachment seems to already have expired. Any chance you can load >the latest version onto the FILES section of this board? I'd like to >burn it onto my personal multicart, and check it out, relatively >soonish. (Along with anything else homebrewed or dumped recently.) > > I don't want to put a interim version at a semi public place. I tried to send you the few dumps (jump bug untrained, space war, space attack tvg2000, gundam, macross), tetris and my crcfile directly to you without success (mail delivery failure). Peter 1537 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sat Oct 18, 2003 9:37am Subject: Re: Gundam and Macross amigansoftware > What's the latest information, in regards to that allegedly bad dump > of Gundam? Has PeT re-dumped it since then? Or has someone else? Yes, it's definitely a bad dump. There are bad bytes scattered more or less at random over the file, in opcodes, operands and data. The ROM does not run when burned to a multicart, nor run in any of the emulators. I confirmed 9 bad bytes but there are likely to be several more. Most but not all of them take the value $FF. In many cases I have been able to surmise what the value of the bytes should be, but without knowing the exact intended game behaviour I can't make a patch which will necessarily resemble the original. For this purpose an AVI, collection of screen shots and/or game manual would be necessary to know the intended behaviour. This is why I have not done any work on it for several months, nevertheless there is a comparatively thorough disassembly and partial patch available which lists and corrects the known bad bytes and makes the first level semi-playable. 1538 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:30am Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, Peter Trauner wrote: >> >> I don't want to put a interim >> version at a semi public place. OK, understood. >> I tried to send you the few dumps >> (jump bug untrained, space war, >> space attack tvg2000, gundam, >> macross), tetris and my crcfile >> directly to you without success >> (mail delivery failure). My fault on that, not yours. But nothing I specifically intended, I assure you. I just had not received anything but SPAM in ages, at my old Worldnet e-mail account, and I wasn't going onto the web for much of anything (for months at a time, or at least weeks), so I finally decided to quit paying for an internet account, along with trimming other bills down. What a person might expect, for a retired 'net junkie. At present, I "borrow" a friend's connection, a few times a week. I only have a free e-mail account on this yahoo service. No web space -- and no interest in having any, thanks -- and very little time online. An hour a week is probably more than my average time online. As of a couple of days ago, the "commie_fan@..." e-mail address should work again. If not, try "ward_shrake@...". But my old address on Worldnet is dead and gone, forever. I hope you're still willing to send me those dumps? I won't make any of them public, until / unless you tell me it's OK. I would like to compare mine against yours and James' ... so we're all on the same page. Pretty sure I did that, some time last year, before I "retired" ... but it won't hurt to make sure everyone's in sync? -- Ward "Just wrapping up loose ends" Shrake -- 1539 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Sun Oct 19, 2003 1:45am Subject: Re: Gundam and Macross commie_fan Thanks for the update, James. Sounds like someone definitely needs to do a re-dump of that cart, or obtain another one, and dump it. Any current interest in doing that, from anyone here? For what it's worth: Reconstruction via guessing seems like a pretty "iffy" way to go about archiving something... but I say that only because the cart in question was mass-produced, and it shouldn't be insanely hard to obtain another one, long enough to dump it. By no means am I trying to be rude or insulting. I just think it's needless work, while remaining impressed that obtaining usable results is even possible. In other words, I'm impressed at the skill level required to do it, but I question the need to do it, with any "mass-produced" game ROM. But then again, as an interim ROM image, I can see why it'd be done. It isn't like these things show up, twenty a day, over on eBay. I do want to make sure that some CRC file identifies the "verified perfect dump" from the "reconstructed bad dump" if and when we get to that point, and if they end up varying by one or more bytes. And for that matter, any modified ROM images, to be identified as such in some public CRC file. I see the use for them; I just want it to be semi-clear to those who take archiving seriously, which is which, once the few of us move on to other personal projects, etc. -- Ward "Just wrapping up loose ends" Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware" wrote: > > What's the latest information, in regards to that allegedly bad > dump > > of Gundam? Has PeT re-dumped it since then? Or has someone else? > > Yes, it's definitely a bad dump. There are bad bytes scattered more > or less at random over the file, in opcodes, operands and data. The > ROM does not run when burned to a multicart, nor run in any of the > emulators. I confirmed 9 bad bytes but there are likely to be several > more. Most but not all of them take the value $FF. > In many cases I have been able to surmise what the value of the > bytes should be, but without knowing the exact intended game > behaviour I can't make a patch which will necessarily resemble the > original. For this purpose an AVI, collection of screen shots and/or > game manual would be necessary to know the intended behaviour. This > is why I have not done any work on it for several months, > nevertheless there is a comparatively thorough disassembly and > partial patch available which lists and corrects the known bad bytes > and makes the first level semi-playable. 1540 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:03am Subject: 2650 top secret? Not quite... mc71de Hi Folks, remember the interview Stefan did with Paul Holmes? And remember Mr. Holmes quoted some businessman who was quite astonished to hear about Signetics producing microprocessors- time stamp 1979 or later? Now guess what i found whilst googling for another of Signetics' rare micros (the 8X300 line, if you're curious)? Souce: http://groups.google.de/groups?selm=1995Jan9.035758.10835%40d- and-d.com quotes lots of stuff that was offered in the 1978 (!) Tandy Radio Shack catalog; about two thirds down we find: | CPU chips were also in that catalog | Intel 8080a $14.95 | Motorola 68000 $29.95 | Fairchild F8 $29.95 | Signetics 2650 $29.95 I would not really call that even the slightest form of secret... Furthermore (ignoring the Instructor-50, which we don't really know much of), i found the following at www.computerwoche.de ('computer week', a 'professional' newspaper more about the market and development, more aimed at the manager than at the user) Anyway, digging their online archives, i got this (sorry... no link possible...): <<<< start quote >>>> http://www.computerwoche.de/heftarchiv/1978/19780303/a116174.html Hofacker GmbH, Holzkirchen:\ Mikit 2650 von 1 bis 32 KB COMPUTERWOCHE Nr. 10 vom 03.03.1978 DORTMUND (pi) -- Den "kompletten" Mikrocomputer "Mikit 2650" bietet die Hofacker GmbH, Holzkirchen, f?r 884,80 Mark an. Das autonom betriebsf,hige Mikro-System arbeitet mit einem Prozessor 2650 von Signetics. Die Programmeingabe kann sowohl ?ber das eingebaute Tastenfeld als auch ?ber eine anzuschlie ende Teletype erfolgen. Das Betriebssystem umfa t eine Speicherkapazit,t von 1 KB (PROMs). Es erm"glicht das Ein- und Auslesen, Zndern und Ausf?hren von Programmen und das Setzen von Breakpoints zur vereinfachten Fehlersuche. sber eine universelle Schnittstelle soll das System leicht auszubauen sein. Derzeit liegen als Zusatz Speichererweiterungs-Platinen zur Vergr" erung des Speicherraums bis 32 KB vor, diverse Ein- und Ausgabeplatinen sowie ein residenter Assembler zur sbersetzung von symbolischen Anwenderprogrammen werden ebenfalls angeboten. Der Mikro wird zusammengebaut und getestet geliefert, zudem gibt's ein Buch mit Programmierbeispielen f?r 19,80 Mark. Informationen: Ing. W. Hofacker GmbH, Tegernseer Stra e 18, 8150 Holzkirchen <<<< start quick translation >>>> DORTMUND. Hofacker GmbH, located in Holzkirchen, offers the MIKIT 2650 for 884,80 DM [about 450...500 US-Dollar]. The stand-alone micro-system operates on a 2650 by Signetics. Program entry is via an integrated keypad or an external Teletype. The operating system is 1KB (PROM) in size. It allows input, output, alternation and execution of programs as well as setting breakpoints for easy debugging. The system claims to be easily expandable via a universal port(connector). Expansion boards to expand memory space upto 32K are available; different input- and output boards are offered as well as a resident assembler for translation of symbolic application programs. The board comes ready-built [Ugh! That doesn't sound like the correct idiom? - the translator] and a book with programming examples is also offered at 19.80 DM <<<< end of quote >>>> Now what does that mean? - I woldn't call a single usenet posting a 'proof'- but a strong hint it is that the 2650 was freely available to the (U.S.) public at least in 1978. Of course, everyone can look it up in that rs catalog... ;-) - We have another 'real world' 2650 system, much like the instructor- 50 methinks, that even predates the Interton VC4000. Remember the 'mystery' of the disguised chips in the early VC's? It wouldn't make much sense to hide them because of military considerations when there's another non-disguised system out. So we might consider it was Interton who wished to not disclose what is in their 'one-and- only all-german developed video game'... - and a last comment on the last sentence: I always react allergic against that claim... but recently, i got a brochure about the 2650's 'big uncle' (the 8X300) in german language. Guess what? Not only did they put their (german) Valvo label on it, but also avoided everything that might hint at Philips (the mother company) or Signetics Long story short: In the view of Interton, that 'all-german' claim might not even have been wrong, back then. Now we only need some engineer of Valvo's semiconductor department to tell us what parts of the 2650 design were done 'here', maybe, eventually... and what was done at Signetics'. Or somewhere else- as the 8X300 design is known to be bought from Scientific Micro Systems. *sigh* You get hold of one loose end- and find two others ;-) -mc 1541 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Oct 19, 2003 2:10am Subject: Re: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found mc71de Hi James, I know its been a while... --- "amigansoftware" wrote: > I got an email from Tom Pittman, > He still has his (non-functional) development hardware too! Not really helpful, as he won't be located in europe, as i understand... but if he wants some assistance in getting his gear working again, please feel free to forward my address to him. (Quoting ALF: If it's broke, fix it- if you really can't fix it, it was me who broke it *ha ha ha*) Alternatively, a photo or description would be highly appreciated ;- ) > Maybe also he could have some of the official developer > documentation still, which would be invaluable. Heck, i still haven't made the UVI2637 data sheet publicly available :-/ Let's see what i can do tonight... -mc 1542 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:52am Subject: Re: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de" wrote: > Hi James, > > I know its been a while... > > --- "amigansoftware" wrote: > > I got an email from Tom Pittman, > > He still has his (non-functional) development hardware too! > > Not really helpful, as he won't be located in europe, as i > understand... but if he wants some assistance in getting his gear > working again, please feel free to forward my address to him. Seems he is in the USA...OK, I will forward yours and Russ's email addresses to him as requested. It looks like someone beat me to doing an interview with him :-) That Fatman site had a list of Arcadia games which included "3D Roadway", "Galaxian" and "Home Squadron", all details contributed by Chris Larson, the site's webmaster the "Fatman" himself! :-D I've emailed him to discuss those three titles, but until I get some hard evidence I will maintain a Ward-like attitude about them, ie. they probably don't exist... Anyway I did find out some interesting info that was not in the interview: > I don't suppose you have or know anything about a game called Super Bug? It is the only confirmed game which has not been dumped at all. There are also the rumoured games Centipede, Fun with Math, Galaga and Pinball, I don't suppose you would know whether these were ever released or not? I actually had very little contact with the game community or even the developer. I got into it because I had a friend whose uncle ran the company in Hong Kong, and he decided I was a pretty good programmer and would I be interested in programming a game? After I finished, the company wanted me to tutor a couple of his Chinese programmers (wow! They hardly spoke any English), then I just lost contact with them... >I suspect one of the programmers was named Andrew Choi, does this name sound familiar? I do not remember any names from that time. Andrew Choi might have been one of the guys who came over for tutoring, but I'm not very good with names. >Do you still have any of the development manuals, etc.? Maybe... I ran into some Signetics stuff when I was repacking for my last move, last year. I never throw anything like that away, but the first two moves (halfway across the country) after I did the game, I mailed all my books, and some of the boxes are known to have gotten lost. I have no idea what-all was in them, but every now and then I know I had a book, but it's not in my catalog of what's in the boxes. From my index: Box#02 \ Signetics \ Phillip's Consumer Digital Integrated Circuits Box#05 \ Silicon Gate 2500 Series, Metal Gate, 2000/2400 Series Data Book Box#07 \ Signetics \ Signetics 2650A Box#42 \ Signetics \ Microprocessor 2650 Box#42 \ Signetics \ Bipolar and MOS Memory Data Manual Box#42 \ Signetics \ Digital Linear MOS Applications Box#43 \ Signetics \ Twin 2650 Relocatable Assembler Manual Box#43 \ Signetics \ Twin Operator's Guide (Loose) Does anything here look like what you are looking for? I can find the numbered boxes (the numbering happened fairly recently :-) As I recall, the video/sound chip was just another Signetics part, which I programmed from the data sheet; this was before chipmakers were using memory-mapped I/O, so it probably connected to the CPU I/O instructions (I'd have to look -- maybe one of those 2650 books has the info). I doubt there was much docs on the console hardware; it should be pretty easy to reverse-engineer the address lines on the circuit card to figure out the memory map. There was very little RAM, perhaps all inside the CPU chip. Wow, that was a long time ago, and I have written a lot of different code for different architectures since then. UA was Universal Appliance if I remember. Somewhere I have a copy of their stationary and will look for it. UA was a Hong Kong contract manufacturing company. Before making the console they made walkie-talkies, telephones, (mostly for Radio Shack) and stuff like that. When they first started out all the designs came ready to go even including production jigs from their OEM customer. Over time they moved a bit upscale, first adding production engineering (and reengineering for cost reduction) and about the time of the video game limited design engineering. I visited their place on a number of occasions and I am pretty sure the games were their first software project ever. Unfortunately I don't remember any of the programmers names... >Do you know who commissioned UA to write the games? Philips? Emerson? Some other company? A few additional notes. Some of the games were recoded arcade games popular at the time for which they (I assume Emerson) had taken out licenses. I know this because UA arranged to deliver on of them to my house along with 4 or 5 of the electronics boards for different games (they were all interchangeable). I remember being very popular with the local kids who were more than happy to come over and play the arcade game all day without charge. 1543 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Oct 19, 2003 0:52pm Subject: UA LTD found? (was: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found) mc71de Hi all, --- "amigansoftware" wrote: > That Fatman site had a list of Arcadia games which > included "3D Roadway", (pesonal note: might that have been a working title for what became grand prix de monaco, before they adopted that shiny name?] see my comment on home squadron... > "Galaxian" See the DPCG7 Arcadia section director's cut (d'uh... i really managed to *not* download a copy of it :-( just a google cache html- ized copy... anyway, it's mentioned that a UK magazine calls the galaxian version by it's real name, whilst it was most likely never published as such. > and "Home Squadron" See DPCG7 DC, rumour mill section, about 3d roadway and home squadron- Ward says these titles had made it into the list but nobody can tell anymore due to what rumour actually. So Chris might just have entered some older version of the DPCG list into the database... just my 2 cents... > Anyway I did find out some interesting info Indeed! > >Do you still have any of the development manuals, etc.? > > Box#02 \ Signetics \ Phillip's Consumer Digital Integrated Circuits Hmmm... i somewhat doubt it might be in there... remember, the 'magic number' to look for is (are) 2622 (the NTSC timing chip... we *need* exact cycle numbers!) 2637 UVI (we have that bad copy of HanHein- i doubt Signetics ever published anything else about this chip, but a 'clean' copy would be nice to have anyway) 2636 PVI (the 'little brother', used in the VC4000 consoles group- i think we know about everything about it, but having a data sheet is always appreciated...) > Box#05 \ Silicon Gate 2500 Series, Metal Gate, 2000/2400 Series Data Book Doesn't sound likely to find anything... > Box#07 \ Signetics \ Signetics 2650A > Box#42 \ Signetics \ Microprocessor 2650 Very maybe- but sounds like CPU-only stuff, not the peripherals? > Box#42 \ Signetics \ Bipolar and MOS Memory Data Manual > Box#42 \ Signetics \ Digital Linear MOS Applications Even less likely, IMHO. > Box#43 \ Signetics \ Twin 2650 Relocatable Assembler Manual > Box#43 \ Signetics \ Twin Operator's Guide (Loose) D'uh! What on earth is a Twin? A computer? An Operating System? Never heard of... so i'm getting curious ;-) > this was before chipmakers were using memory-mapped > I/O, so it probably connected to the CPU I/O instructions Well... not really ;-) (the term 'before' is wrong already... microprocessors used memory mapped IO at least since the 6800/6502 were released in 1975/76; older designs could work around if they wanted) Just my remark as 'old micros geek' ;-) The system maps and registers are (mostly) described in documents to be found in the files section... ************************************************** * But now for something completely different... * * maybe a major breakthrough, maybe a dead end? * * Time will tell... * ************************************************** > UA was Universal Appliance if I remember. Somewhere I > have a copy of their stationary and will look for it. > > UA was a Hong Kong contract manufacturing company. ... > When they first started out all the designs came ready > to go even including production jigs from their OEM customer. > > Over time they moved a bit upscale, first adding production > engineering (and reengineering for cost reduction) and about > the time of the video game limited design engineering. I > visited their place on a number of occasions and I am pretty > sure the games were their first software project ever. Indeed that's what i expected to find- just leaves the question whether they did the marketing (selling to Emerson, Hanimex...etc) independently, or Philips drew the wires in the backstage. But i asked the Oracle of Google about 'Universal Appliances' (Ltd, Hong Kong)- hey! didn't we joke whether UA was too similar to Universal Artists, last year? Looks we were closer than we believed ;-) So- here are my results: HK Universal appliances ltd, listed in the Hong Kong Index of Companies: http://www.e-finet.com/datacard/e_CompanyProfile.php? code=0419 (no web site... d'uh! The same company appears in a press release of some renewal of cooperation contract with a certain 'DVN': http://202.66.146.82/listco/hk/dvn/announcement/a020528.pdf And finally, who is DVN? Today, a digital cable TV company in The People's Republoc of China (of course, the one and only... i like marketing blurb!) http://203.194.162.10/listco/hk/dvn/press/p011002.htm http://dvnholdings.com If you dig into the site (lots of flash :-/ slow connection :-/ no real fun...), you'll find some references to high-quakity HIFI equipment they made in the past (and can't sell nowadays), you'll see that DVN and UAL ahare their management (although there is nothing about what UAL is all about today!) So- i cannot tell if that is 'our' UAL- the name as such is too generic. But maybe, very maybe... Another thing that catches my attention for a long time now: The Arcadia, as well as many of the earlier PONG systems, up to the Amstrad CPC computer have a more or less unique sign of a red, green and blue square or rectangle. Just the same as DVN uses as their corporate sign... I know, it could just be a reminder of 'hey! Color inside!'- but there would be many ways to make a 'color inside' sign. But one would expect a company to make theirs rather different, not as similar as possible. And i haven't seen such a sign anywhere else, say on the color control of a TV set or something- any thoughts out there? > Some of the games were recoded arcade games > popular at the time for which they (I assume Emerson) > had taken out licenses. I somewhat doubt Emerson did much more than selling the stuff... and i doubt 'they' (UAL, most likely) cared too much about licenses in the first place. > I know this because UA arranged to deliver on of them > to my house along with 4 or 5 of the electronics boards One could argue whether the arcade companies were asked for permission ;-) OK, that's all for today. -mc 1544 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Mon Oct 20, 2003 2:09am Subject: Re: UA LTD found? (was: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found) amigansoftware > See DPCG7 DC, rumour mill section, about 3d raceway and home > squadron- Ward says these titles had made it into the list but > nobody can tell anymore due to what rumour actually. So Chris might > just have entered some older version of the DPCG list into the > database... just my 2 cents... Actually he got them from SlyDC's FAQ, I think those DPCG entries came from there originally too... > 2622 (the NTSC timing chip... we *need* exact cycle numbers!) OK, I'll ask him for that one sometime. > 2637 UVI (we have that bad copy of HanHein- i doubt Signetics ever > published anything else about this chip, but a 'clean' copy would be > nice to have anyway) Hm, *you* have it, you haven't uploaded it yet AFAIK though :-) > 2636 PVI (the 'little brother', used in the VC4000 consoles group- i > think we know about everything about it, but having a data sheet is > always appreciated...) Strange that he would have VC4000 stuff... > > Box#05 \ Silicon Gate 2500 Series, Metal Gate, 2000/2400 Series > Data Book > > Doesn't sound likely to find anything... > > > Box#07 \ Signetics \ Signetics 2650A > > Box#42 \ Signetics \ Microprocessor 2650 > > Very maybe- but sounds like CPU-only stuff, not the peripherals? We've got the 2650 user manual anyway, so what he has may be the same thing or will at least contain similar information. I'm curious as to what the differences are between the 2650 and the 2650A? Presumably they would be more or less binary-compatible but they must have some differences. > > Box#42 \ Signetics \ Bipolar and MOS Memory Data Manual > > Box#42 \ Signetics \ Digital Linear MOS Applications > > Even less likely, IMHO. Don't know about these ones. > > > Box#43 \ Signetics \ Twin 2650 Relocatable Assembler Manual > > Box#43 \ Signetics \ Twin Operator's Guide (Loose) > > D'uh! What on earth is a Twin? A computer? An Operating System? > Never heard of... so i'm getting curious ;-) Twin is a cross-assembler like VACS. We don't seem to really know anything about the development hardware itself, I don't suppose they would create a new platform just for Arcadia development so it would be some pre-existing platform of the time. > > this was before chipmakers were using memory-mapped > > I/O, so it probably connected to the CPU I/O instructions > > Well... not really ;-) (the term 'before' is wrong already... > microprocessors used memory mapped IO at least since the 6800/6502 > were released in 1975/76; older designs could work around if they > wanted) Yes, the Arcadia does use memory-mapped I/O, so his memory must be a little off after 20 years. Then again so is mine :-) > ************************************************** > * But now for something completely different... * > * maybe a major breakthrough, maybe a dead end? * > * Time will tell... * > ************************************************** > > > UA was Universal Appliance if I remember. Somewhere I > > have a copy of their stationary and will look for it. > > > > UA was a Hong Kong contract manufacturing company. > ... > > When they first started out all the designs came ready > > to go even including production jigs from their OEM customer. > > > > Over time they moved a bit upscale, first adding production > > engineering (and reengineering for cost reduction) and about > > the time of the video game limited design engineering. I > > visited their place on a number of occasions and I am pretty > > sure the games were their first software project ever. > > Indeed that's what i expected to find- just leaves the question > whether they did the marketing (selling to Emerson, Hanimex...etc) > independently, or Philips drew the wires in the backstage. > > But i asked the Oracle of Google about 'Universal Appliances' (Ltd, > Hong Kong)- hey! didn't we joke whether UA was too similar to > Universal Artists, last year? Looks we were closer than we > believed ;-) > > So- here are my results: > > HK Universal appliances ltd, listed in the Hong Kong Index of > Companies: http://www.e-finet.com/datacard/e_CompanyProfile.php? > code=0419 (no web site... d'uh! I actually found several companies with that name, but I suspect the one you found is the correct one. Heh heh, registered the company in a tax haven... :-) No email address either. Look like they have been losing money too, see http://www.aastocks.com/eng/stockquote/newstext.asp? source=AFX&item=AFX200283070048&symbol=0419 Maybe they should write some more Arcadia games :-) > Another thing that catches my attention for a long time now: The > Arcadia, as well as many of the earlier PONG systems, up to the > Amstrad CPC computer have a more or less unique sign of a red, green > and blue square or rectangle. Just the same as DVN uses as their > corporate sign... That's a trapezoid actually I think... :-) I'm trying to be accurate so Ward doesn't yell at me :-D > > Some of the games were recoded arcade games > > popular at the time for which they (I assume Emerson) > > had taken out licenses. > > I somewhat doubt Emerson did much more than selling the stuff... and > i doubt 'they' (UAL, most likely) cared too much about licenses in > the first place. They did officially license several games later though... 1545 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Mon Oct 20, 2003 3:11am Subject: Re: UA LTD found? (was: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found) commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware" wrote: (snip) > That's a trapezoid actually I > think... :-) I'm trying to be > accurate so Ward doesn't > yell at me :-D Trust me, Ward won't yell at you over such things. Once perhaps, but thankfully, no more. I've been beaten down by far too many "wheel-reinvention" efforts, constant reversions back in time before we first pieced together XYZ (and then confirmed it from multiple sources), certain editors badly lobotomizing my painstakingly chosen words in print (while saying no edits at all were made), numerous users misquoting or horribly paraphrasing me (and others) online, users quoting badly out-of-date sources forever while habitually ignoring any and all newer ones... and many other things, over the last few years. Not to mention all the folks who, when I dump published research in their lap, ignore it. It's too frustrating to keep fighting all of that. I'm outnumbered, and hoarse from shouting "the truth" while others stick their fingers in their ears, and sing "la, la, la" so they won't have to hear me. If the world wants to be that way, what choice have I, but to let it be? They seem to be happy, doing things their way. I've come to the conclusion that it isn't the world that "is wrong"... I'm out of sync with the vast majority of the people who might claim to want certain information. I'm tired of the thankless, uphill battle. Have been, for some time. But I guess it's moot; it's no secret I've "retired". As such, I have decided not to say a word about 99.9999% of the bad info I see, on this subject and many others. Biting my tongue seems wisest. In a way, I guess I'm sticking my fingers in my own ears, and singing "la, la, la" loudly, whenever I'm tempted to "correct" things. Better things to do with my time, nowadays. I'm a much happier camper. > They did officially license > several games later though... Yup. "They" did... as seen on various game screens, plainly naming the licensors. -- Ward Shrake -- 1546 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Oct 20, 2003 4:57pm Subject: Re: UA LTD found? (was: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found) mc71de Hi James, --- "amigansoftware" wrote: > Actually he got them from SlyDC's FAQ, *ouch*... no, i won't complain about Ward's vanished website. But i seem to remember that one can find 'not-so-outdated' stuff out there without too much trouble. Probably no-one imagines that there is anything new to be discovered, after all those years? And deleting a title from the list also doesn't fall into what people expect... strange. At least that site is user-contributed. > > 2636 PVI ...used in the VC4000 consoles group- > Strange that he would have VC4000 stuff... I hope we didn't talk about typical semiconductor data books in the past ;-) I can't tell for sure, but the UVI data sheet is part of a data book- and these are, in most cases, collections of all data sheets of the chips that were offered at a certain point/period of time. So chances are, that you find the 2636 data sheet just on the pages before that of the 2637 (and the 2651 afterwards, which is another peripheral of the 2650 series- but nothing we were interested in, video-game-wise) ... > We've got the 2650 user manual anyway, Speaking of which... the wiretap arcade archive finally has been put off the net, and the well-known 2650 Users Manual with it. But there is http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/signetics/_dataBooks/1975_Signetics_265 0.pdf (which is basically the same stuff, but some more details about the support software offered by signetics) Will update my link in the links section accordingly... > what the differences are between the 2650 and the 2650A? And thus spoke the Ward: Thou shallt not guess... see the 2650A booklet at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_info rmation/Data%20Manual%20Pages/ (no, i didn't check what parameters were changed with respect to the original revision- only thing i know is that the so-called 'TOPP' book specially requires the -A version for it's system) > > D'uh! What on earth is a Twin? > > Twin is a cross-assembler like VACS. OK. > We don't seem to really know > anything about the development hardware itself, No. Actually (for what the data books talk about), Signetics offered some development tools written in FORTRAN and thus rather system- independent. Usually, development systems consist of the actual hardware (maybe in some sort of prototype stadium- but then, the Palladium system had already been released if i get the time line right...), some means of feeding the binary ('ROM') file into the address space (vulgo 'ROM emulator', some simple monitor program and data connection, or just an EPROM socket) and a powerful computer of some standard which runs the assembler and other tools. Well, i'm looking forward to know what approach UA took. > Yes, the Arcadia does use memory-mapped I/O, so his memory > must be a little off after 20 years. Then again so is mine :-) Things like that happen when you have seen lots of different systems and architectures over the years... > > sign of a red, green and blue square or rectangle. > That's a trapezoid actually I think... :-) It's not even consistant across the 'Arcadia family'... the TVG2000 uses a symbolized 'S' (like 'Schmid'), others squares... as i said, this is by no means some sort of 'proof', not even a hint. But it puzzels me, whenever i come across a 'mark' of that style- its always on some entertainment electronics, aome 'el cheapo' brand... but (attention! i know i'm repeating myself!) never used as generic icon for 'color television'. > > > Some of the games were recoded arcade games > > > popular at the time for which they (I assume Emerson) > > > had taken out licenses. > > > > I somewhat doubt Emerson did much more than selling > > the stuff... and i doubt 'they' (UAL, most likely) > > cared too much about licenses in the first place. OK- this sentence severely suffers from 'wrong idiom syndrome'. i'll try to re-word... First of all, i was looking at the argument 'they (UAL) brought in some Arcade machines' as a proof for anything being licensed. This is, as we know, not necessarily the case, back then. As you said (heck, i know _that_!), later games were licensed- they were because this is just the time where licensing was enforced by some lawsuits (i have to admit i am no expert on this matter). As i understand, before that time, noone really cared about licensing... nd in Europe, there are even early 'bootleg' and later 'licensed' games of the same arcade game. So i should have said 'when they started' instead of 'in the first place'. Acocrding to the role of Emerson (unless someone brings in some facts), i *do* share the common opinion here that they were pretty much not at all involved- if anyone understood that as 'i claim something new', i am seriously mistaken. Maybe we can agree on 'i do extend what has been found out in the past about Emerson's role in the Arcadia's history in such a way, that Emerson also was not in any way involved in the process of licensing, other than telling UAL something like 'hey! Don't bring in any illegal stuff!' (I severely doubt *that* is understandable... but is exactly what happens when i get stuck with translating something into English that is more complicated than 'insert cartridge into slot- the data bus is connected to the memory- there are no twentyeight kilobyte of RAM'.) -mc 1547 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Oct 20, 2003 5:21pm Subject: Don't sleep and post! (was: UA LTD found? ) mc71de Oh-oh... --- "mc71de" wrote: > *ouch*... no, i won't complain about Ward's vanished website. Another *ouch*... doesn't say some ancient rule of netiquette to re- read what you write befor hitting 'send'? Of course i wouldn't complain about Ward's web site at all (hey! It was great stuff, after all, in every of its re-incarnations and revisions!) What i wanted to say is: I won't complain about the fact that it's gone. Hey- i do not want to put out money even for my currently active web sites; so i cannot possibly expect anyone to spend any money and/or time for others, on a subject that this individual has only very limited interest in, if any. (Yes, i read the 'letter of retirement'... and i don't think this two-liner is a complete transscription of what is written there.) And whilst i am not happy with the situation as it is (mostly because i cannot point someone like 'the fatman' at it and say 'look! that's the state-of-the-art, mostly!', but instead see lots of outdated FAQ versions floating all over the 'net), i _do_ understand very well the desire of having 'full control' over that stuff. And that's why i will not complain that the site is gone, nor that there is no interest in putting it up again, even without any duties (financial and time-wise) and still with full control about what is where and how... -mc 1548 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Tue Oct 21, 2003 5:49am Subject: Re: Don't sleep and post! (was: UA LTD found? ) amigansoftware > What i wanted to say is: I won't complain about the fact that it's > gone. Hey- i do not want to put out money even for my currently > active web sites; so i cannot possibly expect anyone to spend any > money and/or time for others, on a subject that this individual has > only very limited interest in, if any. (Yes, i read the 'letter of > retirement'... and i don't think this two-liner is a complete > transscription of what is written there.) > > And whilst i am not happy with the situation as it is (mostly > because i cannot point someone like 'the fatman' at it and > say 'look! that's the state-of-the-art, mostly!', but instead see > lots of outdated FAQ versions floating all over the 'net), i _do_ > understand very well the desire of having 'full control' over that > stuff. And that's why i will not complain that the site is gone, nor > that there is no interest in putting it up again, even without any > duties (financial and time-wise) and still with full control about > what is where and how... I'm willing to host all Ward's files at my site. Even the non-Arcadia files. It would be a shame for this thoroughly-researched material to disappear, people will then have to use out-of-date and inaccurate information instead. Someone (Ward, I suppose) will have to send them to me though, since I don't have a full mirror of it on my harddrive (didn't know it was going offline) and www.archive.org doesn't really have anything either unfortunately... 1549 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:32pm Subject: Re: Gundam and Macross commie_fan OK, here's the summary to date: PeT says the dump of Gundam is bad, James says it is bad, and now I'm confirming it is. It does not work when burned into an EPROM, and plugged into my personal multicart, in a real (NTSC) console. Locks up, on the first screen past the title. It is not problems with emulation, or PAL / NTSC issues. It's a bad dump, that will not work, even in the type of console it's intended for. If anyone has a copy they'd loan out, I'm reasonably certain that PeT would be glad to dump it properly, and make sure the dump is good. I can't offer to do dumps myself, at this point. I'm retired, after all, and just can't spare the time and energy at this point. Sorry. (Besides, I'm in the United States, and PeT's in Europe; maybe closer to someone who has a copy of the game to dump, over that way?) Macross mostly works; I'd like to see it redumped, too, to be on the safe side. That is, if I were the one making such decisions. I could be wrong, but I think that's the consensus here, among me / PeT / James; that the dump may be "weak" and that it should be dumped along with Gundam, before we'll feel comfortable that the dump is 100% OK. For what it is worth: Space War kicks butt, in terms of Galaxian clones for this console. I've told PeT in private e-mail, in some detail. And supplied him with other comments and techie answers, after burning a new EPROM for my personal multicart, earlier tonight. -- Ward "Happily Retired" Shrake -- 1550 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Oct 21, 2003 2:35pm Subject: Ward's web sites, and his retirement commie_fan I'm happy with things as they are, for the time being. Months from now, if and when things change, I'll contact the appropriate people. Till then, I'm basically "back out" again. Did what I had to or wanted to... back to my real life, and various non-I'net activities. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware" wrote: > > What i wanted to say is: I won't complain about the fact that it's > > gone. Hey- i do not want to put out money even for my currently > > active web sites; so i cannot possibly expect anyone to spend any > > money and/or time for others, on a subject that this individual has > > only very limited interest in, if any. (Yes, i read the 'letter of > > retirement'... and i don't think this two-liner is a complete > > transscription of what is written there.) > > > > And whilst i am not happy with the situation as it is (mostly > > because i cannot point someone like 'the fatman' at it and > > say 'look! that's the state-of-the-art, mostly!', but instead see > > lots of outdated FAQ versions floating all over the 'net), i _do_ > > understand very well the desire of having 'full control' over that > > stuff. And that's why i will not complain that the site is gone, > nor > > that there is no interest in putting it up again, even without any > > duties (financial and time-wise) and still with full control about > > what is where and how... > > I'm willing to host all Ward's files at my site. Even the non- Arcadia > files. It would be a shame for this thoroughly-researched material to > disappear, people will then have to use out-of-date and inaccurate > information instead. > Someone (Ward, I suppose) will have to send them to me though, > since I don't have a full mirror of it on my harddrive (didn't know > it was going offline) and www.archive.org doesn't really have > anything either unfortunately... 1551 From: "Fredrik Axtelius" Date: Tue Oct 21, 2003 3:42pm Subject: Re: Re: Gundam and Macross axtelius2001 > OK, here's the summary to date: PeT says the dump of Gundam is bad, > James says it is bad, and now I'm confirming it is. It does not work > when burned into an EPROM, and plugged into my personal multicart, in > a real (NTSC) console. Locks up, on the first screen past the title. I'll redump it. Have sold my copy but I can lend it for a few days. Might take a while though but hang in there. /frax 1552 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:20pm Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) atrionfo Peter wrote: >> in the attachment you find beta 3 [of Tetris]. >> Max let me know about Tetris. I ran beta 3 with Mess .73b. The control is odd (why doesn't it use the controller-- it uses the keypad buttons...), but it works fine. I'll try burning this in the next couple of days so that it can be tested on an NTSC machine. Anyone want to email the newest stuff (i.e. anything since about December) to me as a package so that I can test all of it on an NTSC machine? Adam 1553 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Oct 26, 2003 5:18pm Subject: Re: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: >I ran beta 3 with Mess .73b. The control is odd (why doesn't it use the >controller-- it uses the keypad buttons...), but it works fine. > use the 2nd option key to select between stick(and pad) and keypad. >I'll try burning this in the next couple of days so that it can be tested on >an NTSC machine. > > Accordingly to Ward it works on his NTSC machine. >Anyone want to email the newest stuff (i.e. anything since about December) >to me as a package so that I can test all of it on an NTSC machine? > Peter 1554 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:57am Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) atrionfo Peter wrote: >> Accordingly to Ward it [Tetris] works on his NTSC machine. >> I trust 'em! When you posted beta version one you said that you needed play testing. Do you still need that? I could sit down with my son (nine) and play for a while. Is there anything in particular that you are looking to hear about, or just general info? Tetris on the Arcadia 2001... who woulda thought! Adam 1555 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:32pm Subject: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > Peter wrote: > >> > Accordingly to Ward it [Tetris] works on his NTSC machine. > >> > > I trust 'em! > > When you posted beta version one you said that you needed play testing. Do > you still need that? Could you please test out JTron too while you are at it, to make sure it works. Thanks. 1556 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:13am Subject: Re: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) grumpfix Adam Trionfo wrote: >When you posted beta version one you said that you needed play testing. Do >you still need that? I could sit down with my son (nine) and play for a >while. Is there anything in particular that you are looking to hear about, >or just general info? > >Tetris on the Arcadia 2001... who woulda thought! > > The penalty color inversion (s2650 flag output inverts colors (white background)) would be interesting if supported on all real consoles (if I remember correctly it isn't connected in Ward's console). As far as I know all should work as expected (even sound/effects (expected to sound horrible but correct). I haven't played/tested it much (especially 2player). Peter 1557 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:38am Subject: Testing JTron; was: Re: First? arcadia homebrew game tetris (beta 3) atrionfo amigansoftware wrote: >> Could you please test out JTron too while you are at it, to make sure it works. Thanks. >> I looked around in the message board file area but didn't find "JTron." You'll need to email it to me (or point me to where it is). Adam 1558 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu Oct 30, 2003 3:45pm Subject: UVI data sheet finally online (was:UA LTD found?) mc71de Hi all, long waited for, finally done... the 2637 UVI data sheet is online available at http://mitglied.lycos.de/mc71/uvi/thumbnails.html Free webspace, annoying advertisements... but i made a thumbnail page for it. As you might remember, these scans were taken from a very deteriorated copy of the data sheet. I did not try very hard to enhance quality, and we might get a better copy some day... I did not upload any .zip files; if you want to download the whole thing, go to http://mitglied.lycos.de/mc71/uvi/ and do some right click- 'save target as...' on the big .gif files. --- "mc71de" wrote: > --- "amigansoftware" wrote: > 2637 UVI (we have that bad copy of HanHein- i doubt > Signetics ever published anything else about this chip, In fact, the 2637 was mentioned in a 2650 data book (but only as a one page summary, like that of the 2636 which was available at the wiretap archive)- what i didn't remember was that the psges were numbered form 2 to 19, which would be typical for a small leaflet- not a chapter of a data book, as i remembered (erraneously) > 2636 PVI (the 'little brother', used in the VC4000 > consoles group- i think we know about everything about it, > but having a data sheet is always appreciated...) I seem to appreciate that word ('appreciate') lately ;-) OK, does not look too probable that any further details on the 2636 PVI were published in the 'big' data books other than said one-page overview. But some sort of data sheet was offered as part of the Elektor computer kits; maybe one of those who built one still has a copy of that old stuff (my Elektor computer which i bought last year came with the Elektor book only, though...) -mc 1559 From: "mrjones060" Date: Sat Nov 8, 2003 10:02pm Subject: Intervision 2001 / Ormatu 2001 / Sheen 2001 Collectors ? mrjones060 Hi, this is my first post to this group. I have been collecting few years Intervision 2001 stuff , and recently got hold of some Sheen 2001 games ( Stefan send some more which he thought were Ormatu carts, but were instead Sheen 2001 - style ). I was wondering if anyone have any items I am missing from my collection ( or a complete list anyway ). In future hope to get a boxed Intervision 2001 along with some boxed games, so I might have doubles to trade. mrjones 1560 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Wed Nov 26, 2003 9:04am Subject: Re: Intervision 2001 / Ormatu 2001 / Sheen 2001 Collectors ? amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mrjones060" wrote: > Hi, > > this is my first post to this group. > > I have been collecting few years Intervision 2001 stuff , and > recently got hold of some Sheen 2001 games ( Stefan send some more > which he thought were Ormatu carts, but were instead Sheen 2001 - > style ). > > I was wondering if anyone have any items I am missing from my > collection ( or a complete list anyway ). > You could look at the Digital Press Collector's Guide, or the EA2001 Gaming Guide; these both have complete lists of all known software. 1562 From: "mrjones060" Date: Thu Nov 27, 2003 11:27pm Subject: Re: Intervision 2001 / Ormatu 2001 / Sheen 2001 Collectors ? mrjones060 In Digital press there are only Emerson Arcadia 2001 game lists, no Ormatu lists available. Where can I found the EA2001 Gaming Guide ? mrjones > > > > You could look at the Digital Press Collector's Guide, or the EA2001 > Gaming Guide; these both have complete lists of all known software. 1563 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Fri Nov 28, 2003 11:08pm Subject: Re: Intervision 2001 / Ormatu 2001 / Sheen 2001 Collectors ? amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mrjones060" wrote: > In Digital press there are only Emerson Arcadia 2001 game lists, no > Ormatu lists available. > > Where can I found the EA2001 Gaming Guide ? http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/gg/ You might want to look at http://www.retrorene.nl/ormatu.htm That site is all about the Ormatu, and he has the complete Ormatu catalogue scanned in, available for download. > mrjones > > > > > > > You could look at the Digital Press Collector's Guide, or the > EA2001 > > Gaming Guide; these both have complete lists of all known software. 1564 From: "landsmarra" Date: Fri Dec 5, 2003 7:09am Subject: Non-Ward Arcadia multicart available landsmarra Hey guys, A friend of mine made an Arcadia multicart for me a few months back (with Ward's blessing) and it works great. As he is currently out of work, he decided to make #2 and put it up on eBay. Here's the link in case anyone's interested: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ViewItem&item=3063357322&category=4315 Good luck to anyone interested. Steve 1565 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 9:39am Subject: TV-Spiel Computer Book - Free! atrionfo Stefan made me a copy of the book "TV-Spiel Computer" a couple of years back. I don't need it anymore and will pass it on to anyone who will pay the shipping for it. If you need to know what this book is about, then search the back postings... Oh, yea, the book is in German (if it were in English I wouldn't let it go). Adam 1566 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:04am Subject: I'm back stefanpiasecki After some months of extensive work, I am back for good and am willing to spend some more time on the community. It feels great to see all those familiar names. Man, I didn't check for this board since April. There must be plenty for me to read.... By the way, I have put some of my spare carts up for auction. Just in case somebody is interested. There is also a boxed copy of Funky Fish for sale... Cheers Stefan 1567 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:07am Subject: Re: Intervision 2001 / Ormatu 2001 / Sheen 2001 Collectors ? stefanpiasecki > You might want to look at http://www.retrorene.nl/ormatu.htm > That site is all about the Ormatu, and he has the complete Ormatu > catalogue scanned in, available for download. Except Superbug, all those games were released for the MPT-03 systems. The most interesting thing to find out about is whether Space Vultures would be the one with the mothership or not. To date I didn't find any version of SV for either the Ormatu or the MPT. Stefan 1568 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:08am Subject: Regarding my Funky Fish auction stefanpiasecki Sorry, I didn't mention my Ebay name for you to find the auction that I mentioned in the other post today: steve-vx Stefan 1569 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Dec 24, 2003 1:21am Subject: Latest games? stefanpiasecki Hi, while quickly browsing through the headlines it seems to me that more games were found or homebrewn games were made (Tetris)? Can anybody give me a quick summary of the most important things that happened over the past months? Take care Stefan 1570 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 0:08am Subject: Re: Latest games? amigansoftware > Hi, while quickly browsing through the headlines it seems to me that > more games were found or homebrewn games were made (Tetris)? Can > anybody give me a quick summary of the most important things that > happened over the past months? Yes, 2 games have been written: Tetris by PeT and JTron by myself. Also the useful tool "Annotate" has been written (auto-formats and auto-comments EA2001 disassemblies). 1571 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:54am Subject: Re: Latest games? stefanpiasecki > Yes, 2 games have been written: Tetris by PeT and JTron by myself. > Also the useful tool "Annotate" has been written (auto-formats and > auto-comments EA2001 disassemblies). That's superb news. They can be played with Mess, right? Any chance to get them burned onto an Eprom to play them on the "real thing"? Cheers Stefan View: Simple | Summary | Expanded As: Msg List | Thread 1542 - 1571 of 1730 First | < Previous | Next > | Last Message # Search: Post Message YAHOO! SPONSOR RESULTS Graphic Design and Multimedia Degrees - Earn a Bachelor degree online in Animation, Graphic Design and Multimedia. Work in advertising, web design, publishing houses, corporate communications, and more. 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All rights reserved.Privacy Policy - Copyright/IP Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help if (window.yzq_a == null) document.write(""); if (window.yzq_a) { yzq_a('p', 'P=QPKrhELaQvCveQ2dQz34JwA1yza_l0NskdoAA6aX&T=14k44lvbc%2fX%3d1131188698%2fE%3d1705006497%2fR%3dgroups%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d1.1%2fW%3d8%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3d3660598226%2fH%3dY2FjaGVoaW50PSJ1cyI-%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d4D42DA42'); yzq_a('a', '&U=12924a9ct%2fN%3dXnrpD0LaRYI-%2fC%3d-1%2fD%3dFSRVY%2fB%3d-1'); } if (window.yzq_a == null) document.write(""); if (window.yzq_a) { yzq_a('p', 'P=QPKrhELaQvCveQ2dQz34JwA1yza_l0NskdoAA6aX&T=14kqvmgo9%2fX%3d1131188698%2fE%3d1705006497%2fR%3dgroups%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d1.1%2fW%3d8%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3d1355175939%2fH%3dY2FjaGVoaW50PSJ1cyI-%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d4D42DA42'); yzq_a('a', '&U=139k6t2fq%2fN%3dW3rpD0LaRYI-%2fC%3d251521.4264366.5463882.4155847%2fD%3dFOOT%2fB%3d1894166'); } if (window.yzq_a == null) document.write(""); if (window.yzq_a) { yzq_a('p', 'P=QPKrhELaQvCveQ2dQz34JwA1yza_l0NskdoAA6aX&T=14k7f21iu%2fX%3d1131188698%2fE%3d1705006497%2fR%3dgroups%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d1.1%2fW%3d8%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3d1954816662%2fH%3dY2FjaGVoaW50PSJ1cyI-%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d4D42DA42'); yzq_a('a', '&U=126kjvn2r%2fN%3dWXrpD0LaRYI-%2fC%3d-2%2fD%3dPU%2fB%3d-2'); } if (window.yzq_a == null) document.write(""); if (window.yzq_a) yzq_a('p', 'P=QPKrhELaQvCveQ2dQz34JwA1yza_l0NskdoAA6aX&T=14koatekf%2fX%3d1131188698%2fE%3d1705006497%2fR%3dgroups%2fK%3d5%2fV%3d1.1%2fW%3d9%2fY%3dYAHOO%2fF%3d1020957263%2fH%3dY2FjaGVoaW50PSJ1cyI-%2fS%3d1%2fJ%3d4D42DA42'); if (window.yzq_gb && window.yzq4) yzq4(); else if (window.yzq_eh) yzq_eh(); 1572 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Dec 25, 2003 2:55am Subject: Merry Christmas... stefanpiasecki .... and a happy new year to everyone on this board. May the new year bring loads of interesting news. Stefan 1573 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Tue Dec 30, 2003 2:12am Subject: Re: Latest games? amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > > Yes, 2 games have been written: Tetris by PeT and JTron by myself. > > Also the useful tool "Annotate" has been written (auto-formats and > > auto-comments EA2001 disassemblies). > > That's superb news. They can be played with Mess, right? Any chance > to get them burned onto an Eprom to play them on the "real thing"? > Cheers > Stefan IIRC correctly they should work under MESS V1 or V2. I think Adam was going to burn them to test them, I assume they work on the real thing also. 1574 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:14am Subject: Re: I'm back commie_fan --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > > After some months of extensive > work, I am back for good and am > willing to spend some more time > on the community. Ask, and ye shall receive. Remotely hint, and ye receive anyway. :-) Which is to say... as of this date, Stefan is this group's owner. I have changed my own user privileges from "owner" to "member," and I have given ultimate control of the board to Stefan. (Without asking him first... but I doubt he'll mind, and I trust him to do a job you'll all be pleased with.) Group ownership is more a formality than any big change he'll likely notice in terms of additional duties, or that any of you as group members will likely notice. A number of people were "moderators" for some months now, and things have run smoothly. I don't anticipate any problems or changes, beyond who has a little star next to their name. If Stefan ever wants to give ownership to someone else, I've found it is pretty easy. Go to "members" and find your own name, as owner. Click on the edit link, and follow the onscreen menus from there. I don't wish to slight anyone. Other people have always been possible choices for transferred ownership, but I choose Stefan mainly because I've probably known him the longest, and feel I know him the best. And he's done me favors over the years, which this token may return. The reason I'm making this change, is tied to my personal choices as to how to spend my time. I am cutting back on my Internet time, in a number of ways, to have more time for things related to Real Life. I am, in short, phasing the Internet out of my life, to a degree that would have astonished even myself, had I seen this coming years ago. I now prefer reading short story anthologies, occasionally writing, and working on various "hands on" projects, out in my new workshop area. Every prior step I've taken on this path, has led me to be a happier camper... so I'd be a fool not to keep walking this path. By changing owners, and demoting myself to a member only, I now have the ability to stay on this board for as long as I feel the need to -- on the books, anyway, if not actively reading or posting anything -- while retaining the option, later on, to quit entirely. This will make that future step painless for you folks, at that unknown time. I was a bit worried about the group "dying" if I just left, and let my "commie_fan" account go inactive. Now, that won't hurt anything. The community will continue, even if I go my own way. -- Ward Shrake -- 1575 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Jan 27, 2004 11:56am Subject: Updates on status of multicart upgrades, etc. commie_fan On the multicart subject: (1) No more multicarts will be made by me. (No news there.) Not for the Emerson console; not for the Bally console; not for the VIC-20, as was once tentatively planned. I'm retired, and I'm not looking back. (2) What is out there, right now, is all there will ever be... with one minor exception. In going through my stored personal belongings, back in July of 2003, I came up with enough one unassembled board set, and enough spare parts like sockets and so on, to make one (1) more Emerson multicart. It works, but is not in a case, 100% finished yet. Yes, this one is already tentatively spoken for. Sorry! If the person who told me they wanted it -- name known but not given here, so as to avoid any possible "gimme, gimme, I gotta have it" hassles to myself or this person -- changes their mind, then I'll announce here that the very last one, ever, will be for sale. I think that deal will go through, making this an "for info only" message. But that last Emerson PC board set is the only one I ever anticipate making. Furthermore, I have no more spare Bally PC boards, or other related Bally Multicart parts. I did make one prototype of a VIC-20 multicart, but with only part of the ROM collection on it. That one, I plan to just keep for myself. I have zero plans of producing those. (3) I wasn't aware that I was in a position to "give my blessing" to the projects of others? I question the semantics of that prior post, but will say for the record that I certainly won't tell others what to do with something they are creating from scratch. Not my business. But I will say that if anyone but me does work on the carts that I made with my own two hands, and messes something up in the process... it is not my problem. If they break it, they can fix it. (Just fair.) (4) I am aware that I "owe" a handful of people some printed labels. My color printer died on me, hopelessly, towards the end of my multicart making efforts, resulting in some label-less carts out there. I did keep a list of everyone who is in this situation, and at some unknown future time, I will contact those few people, and make their labels. (5) I do not anticipate any ROM chip upgrades to the Bally multicart. Two reasons: one, I can't imagine anything new ever being found, due to the incredible archival efforts of Mike White and others, who made such a complete cart possible in the first place. Two, because Bally case shells were so thin, it was impossible to include even a short chip socket. (All Emerson carts, being thicker, do have a socket.) ROM chip upgrades are possible, as is, but not without multiple hours of work to do desolder the chip, move jumper wires around, and so on. I just can't justify the time to do it, at a low cost. Nor do I see anyone being willing to pay me a fair wage, for each hour required... so the simplest and most logical thing to do, is to "call it quits". (6) There will likely be one more ROM upgrade offered, for all Emerson cart owners. (Possibly two, but for now the plan is to offer one, and see how things go, after that.) The timing on this is totally unknown... which means, no, I can not guesstimate when it will be. I have zero answers along this line, because I'm still waiting for the ROM re-dumps to happen, for some of the carts that were incorrectly dumped. The short story is, you guys ought to really appreciate all of the archiving / dumping that I once did... because despite some (mostly VIC-20) retro-gaming fans claiming that even if I had not done what I did, some other random person would have... it is clear that both quality and quantity of Emerson dumps took an immediate fall downwards, as soon as I announced my retirement from classic gaming circles. "Diminishing returns" notwithstanding, I found that surprising dearth of "new content" to be another sign of the true lack of interest of most game consumers, globally, in this console. (7) When this currently-unknown day comes, I do NOT anticipate greatly greatly complicating my own life, by offering multiple upgrade paths. (I tried letting people return their old chips, on an exchange basis, in the past. Incredible hassle; I won't be doing it that way again.) (8) I have a list of all known Emerson and Bally multicart owners, along with their e-mail addresses, from a year or so ago. When the upgrade is offered, I will contact everyone on that list, with the details. (Please do not try to talk me into doing an upgrade, before then.) (9) Thanks to PeT and AmiganSoftware, for writing their homebrews. Tetris on the Emerson console isn't something I'll play very much -- since I rarely play any games, any more -- but the concept is very neat. For fans of the console, I imagine it's something that is pretty cool? (10) If anyone wants anything included on my next Emerson cart ROM upgrade, now's the time to be working on it. If anyone wants dumps to be corrected, now's the time to be working on it. My upgrade speed depends heavily on what the rest of the (Emerson) community does. I am in no hurry, but wish to point out whose turn it is, to act now. -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "landsmarra" wrote: > Hey guys, > > A friend of mine made an Arcadia multicart for me a few months back > (with Ward's blessing) and it works great. As he is currently out of > work, he decided to make #2 and put it up on eBay. Here's the link > in case anyone's interested: > > http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? > ViewItem&item=3063357322&category=4315 > > Good luck to anyone interested. > > Steve 1576 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Tue Jan 27, 2004 0:40pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Temporary_files/2637_tp_reduced.zip Uploaded by : mc71de Description : essential pages and diagrams of the UVI 2637 manual, courtesy Tom Pitman, author of EA Tennis (including annotations by Himself) You can access this file at the URL http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/2637_tp_reduced.zip To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, mc71de 1577 From: "Ward Shrake" Date: Tue Jan 27, 2004 2:12pm Subject: Re: I'm back commie_fan On second thought... I guess I'm fully "out" of this message board, as of tonight. I was gonna stick around as a member, but I can't imagine why I would do that, if I don't plan to read, or to post? So, I'm closing my "commie_fan" account out, tonight, as part of my on-going efforts to vastly simplify and unclutter my personal life. If anyone wishes to contact me -- AND IS WILLING TO "BEHAVE" WHEN DOING SO -- then here's my current (semi-public) e-mail address: ward_shrake@... Standard netiquette / time management rules apply. Any SPAM sent, rudeness, questions answered already, etc., will be ignored. As to the owners of the Emerson multicarts... if your e-mail addresses may have changed since my last group e-mail announcements (probably 1.0 to 1.5 years ago?), then be sure I have your new one. I will be communicating by e-mail only (no web, no boards) after today. Bye all, and I wish you all good luck with your future endeavors. -- Ward Shrake -- 1578 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Jan 28, 2004 1:52pm Subject: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles mc71de Hi all, --- arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: > File : /Temporary_files/2637_tp_reduced.zip > Uploaded by : mc71de > Description : essential pages and diagrams of the UVI 2637 manual, courtesy Tom Pitman, author of EA Tennis (including annotations by Himself) > > You can access this file at the URL > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_fil es/2637_tp_reduced.zip I think this is quite self-explanatory... i was sent these scans by Tom Pitman, including his hand-written notes in colored pen :-) back in november, but never got around to upload them in any form (best would be to incorporate them somehow into my lycos page with HanHein's scans i think) The rather dark background comes from my graphics converter- i reduced the files to 16-color, and IrfanView is not too good at setting up an appropriate color pallette. The resolution was also reduced to 50%- but it's still readable, i think... Comments welcome... -mc 1579 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Jan 28, 2004 2:32pm Subject: [VC4000] Grundig Superplay computer mc71de Hi all, today i recieved my Grundig Superplay computer- the 'silver twin brother' of the Interton VC4000. AS you might know, this was a special version to directly plug into the remote control compartment of contemporary Grundig TV sets (i also have such a remote control- it clicks into the TV set if not in use, much like the button of a ball point pen does... only i do not own such a TV set, or tech doc about one) Now my question: Has someone already reconstructed the pin-out of the special connector, or even successfully hooked one up this way (other than using it with an appropriate TV, i mean)? Findings inside the case: - the original Interton power connector is replaced with three pins sticking upside, onto which plugs one part of the interconnect cable to the special 'plug box'. Looks not too hard to connect a genuine Interton power supply here. - the main board is of the first series- with separate sound board and color board. The modulator box (usually mounted at the bottom of the main board) is missing for obvious reasons- instead, there are a few jumper wires in this area. Must look if they modify the main board in any way that makes it incompatible with the standard version... - the 'color board' is a special version. It carries: a 3.5 MHz christal oscillator (which in the original design is part of the PAL encoder- hence it is not on the main board), a few TTL gates (RGB generation? sync generation?) and three adjustable transistor driver stages (RGB output, as i assume...) - into the 'color board' plugs the rest of the interconnect cable, leading to the 'plug box'- which itself is almost empty! Only a small circuit board, populated with one big capacitor, two or three resistors and a diode. And of course the 'contact fingers' to plug into the TV... BTW: Does someone know whether you could let the 'plug box' plugged in, wehen the console is switched off- or would the TV (falsely) switch to video input, effectively blocking normal TV operation? (As you might guess, i do not have a manual. And sadly, www.schaltungsdienst.de does not have anything of the Super Play Computer; if only i knew a model number of a TV with that magic remote controller bay...) -mc 1580 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jan 29, 2004 4:17pm Subject: Re: Re: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles grumpfix mc71de wrote: >Hi all, > >--- arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > >> File : /Temporary_files/2637_tp_reduced.zip >> Uploaded by : mc71de >> Description : essential pages and diagrams of the UVI 2637 >> >> >manual, courtesy Tom Pitman, author of EA Tennis (including >annotations by Himself) > > >>You can access this file at the URL >> >> >> >> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_fil >es/2637_tp_reduced.zip > > >I think this is quite self-explanatory... i was sent these scans by >Tom Pitman, including his hand-written notes in colored pen :-) back >in november, but never got around to upload them in any form (best >would be to incorporate them somehow into my lycos page with >HanHein's scans i think) > >The rather dark background comes from my graphics converter- i >reduced the files to 16-color, and IrfanView is not too good at >setting up an appropriate color pallette. The resolution was also >reduced to 50%- but it's still readable, i think... > > Grabbed, thanks. Peter 1581 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sat Feb 21, 2004 3:50am Subject: Re: I'm back stefanpiasecki > > Ask, and ye shall receive. Remotely hint, and ye receive anyway. :- ) > > Which is to say... as of this date, Stefan is this group's owner. > Hay Ward, this is... an honour - to say the least. I was very busy recently so I just checked back in today. Thanks a lot. I hope I can do this justice. In the mean-time, I have made possibly the perfect find in some respect. I'll put this into a seperate post later today. Maybe some of you can help me out on this. Cheers Stefan 1582 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sat Feb 21, 2004 4:08am Subject: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found stefanpiasecki Hi everybody, I am in the process of making pictures and complete lists of the below, but I wanted to let you know that I recently purchased a "Arcadia collection" and when it finally arrived, it rocked me off my feet. I believe that this pack was once sent to a magazine or shop probably for marketing or information purposes. I'll post any individual names, shop names and phone numbers I have later - hopefully somebody can help. The whole pack seems as if somebody was ordered to "get an English copy of everything you can find from the production lines". The pack was shipped to England, so you can find all games (except those Bandai releases) in Hanimex, TVG and other boxes (one company I have never heard of before: Tedelex Home Arcade (blue logo) plus many Advision boxes even of the rare releases) and even spare carts. Hobo comes without a printed label, just a hand-written name and a chinese character, Funky Fish comes as a single cart with hand-Xeroxed typewriter written manual, dated Dec. 1982. I haven't tested the carts for game variants yet. There are blue TVG boxes with silver Hanimex inlays and vice versa, there are Advision boxes with English TVG manuals. And there's even "Route 16" in TVG (!!!) styling. As far as I know this game never came out in Australia or Germany where they used the specific TVG-styling with round-shaped letters for the names - the only copies I know (and I know many as you know) are showing the colour-stripe Arcadia styling. This is like a time-capsule and shows which games were already produced or ready for mass-production at a certain point. As I said, I'll do pictures of everything and upload them by the end of next week. I planned on selling parts of this pack, but as it seems right now, this whole pack is unique on it's own (man, how will I ever cover my expenses?). Cheers Stefan 1583 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:58pm Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > The whole pack seems as if somebody was ordered to "get an English > copy of everything you can find from the production lines". The pack > was shipped to England, so you can find all games (except those > Bandai releases) in Hanimex, TVG and other boxes (one company I have > never heard of before: Tedelex Home Arcade (blue logo) plus many > Advision boxes even of the rare releases) and even spare carts. Hobo > comes without a printed label, just a hand-written name and a chinese > character, Funky Fish comes as a single cart with hand-Xeroxed > typewriter written manual, dated Dec. 1982. I haven't tested the > carts for game variants yet. Seems like quite a find! I don't suppose there is anything undumped among this? ie. Super Bug or one of the unconfirmed games? I suppose you would have mentioned it but I thought I had better make sure... Also I see there is a Funky Fish manual in there. Below I have listed the games for which no manuals are available; as you can see it is quite a lot; slightly over half of all the known games don't have manuals available. I think it is very important to preserve the manuals for these games, whether in ASCII or scanned format. So I will be interested to know what manuals were included. Not available: 3D Soccer American Football Astro Invader Baseball Battle (Panzer) Blackjack/Poker Brain Quiz Breakaway Capture Circus Combat Crazy Gobbler Dictionary (Video-Lexikon) Doraemon Dr. Slump Funky Fish Grand Slam Tennis Hobo Jump Bug Jungler Missile War Mobile Soldier Gundam Monaco Grand Prix Pleiades R2D Tank Red Clash Robot Killer Route 16 Space War Spiders Super Bug Super Dimension Fortress Macross Super Gobbler The End Turtles/Turpin Dutch only (and English autotranslation): Boxing Nibblemen Parashooter I assume these 'spare' carts are just the cases, there is no ROM inside? Or are they just ordinary carts that are not labelled? 1584 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:26pm Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found mc71de Hi all, --- "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > I purchased a "Arcadia collection" wOOt!!! That really IS a find- for my 2 cents worth, it sounds like a demonstration package not so much for an end-user shop, but merely to convince another distributor (if this term fits the so- called 'manufacturers' like Schmid, Emerson, etc which really didn't manufacture anything, as we know) > As I said, I'll do pictures of everything and upload > them by the end of next week. Yes please... by the time, i'll dig out my scans of 'Battle' and 'Video Schach' manuals (i was under the impression i shared them long ago? Whatever...) and look what else i have that i could at least translate from german. BTW: I know the Star Chess manual has already been typed in; yet the early Universum manual of 'Video Schach' is much more detailed and gives not only the chess moves, but also the differences to real chess. I think it's worth it :-) Max 1585 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:16am Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found stefanpiasecki O dear, still that many manuals missing? I have all of these (except Super Bug) but I hardly have time to scan them all, and typing them down is an impossible task. I could take them to a copy shop and copy all of them and then send that bunch to somebody? May sound complicated, but my scanner is ultra-slow - about 2 minutes per page, so please forgive me. And the spare carts... no there's a ROM inside. I just haven't plugged in any of the carts to see if there's a game variation like the German version of Jump Bug having this "skip each level" cheat. Stefan 1586 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sun Feb 22, 2004 1:25am Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found stefanpiasecki to convince another distributor (if this term fits the so- > called 'manufacturers' like Schmid, Emerson, etc which really didn't > manufacture anything, as we know) hm, sounds reasonable. By the way, I have found another Advision Home Arcade box that has mixed interiour - blue inlay and TVG style cart amongst my collection. So maybe the Home Arcade games were shipped at a later stage consisting of spares from other releases? One thing I didn't mention in my previous post was this: there was a TVG system in this pack. Unlike ANY other of my numerous consoles (TVG, Hanimex, Leisure, Tele-Fever, Bandai) this is the only console with NO serial number and NO "QC passed" stickers. Obviously this system did not pass a certain stage in the production line where such stickers were applied. Have they been in a hurry? Or (I'd give my right arm for this) is this an early model? No, maybe not. The other thing is: whatever game it is, whichever box they used and which stickers they put on the carts, ALL casings are TVG-style with this little plastic nose on the right side (to fit into the TVG system). So somebody in the UK must have ordered "one set of everything" and the factory put everything together. Has anybody ever heard of TEDELEX games? Stefan 1587 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:26am Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack kiwigame > Message: 4 >Date: Sat, 21 Feb 2004 14:25:35 -0000 > From: "Stefan Piasecki" > Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found > > Has anybody ever heard of TEDELEX games? Tedelex was/still is one of the biggest importers/distributors etc. of Electrical/Electronic/Appliances in South Africa. A quick google groups search: http://groups.google.co.nz/groups?selm=4jteni$r13@newnews.iafrica.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain Reveals a 1996 post by a South African with one of these systems. 1588 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:33am Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack stefanpiasecki Yikes, what a fine bunch of detectives we are. Great news. Now, SOUTH AFRICA? Didn't know that anybody ever imported this system down to that place. Cool. This guy says that the joysticks wouldn't be self-centering. That's strange. All sticks we know on any Emerson clone are doing this - only those analog sticks you can found with those MPT- 03/Ormatu/Palladium system aren't. What does that mean? Stefan 1589 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Feb 23, 2004 7:37am Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack slapdash26 At 8:26 AM +1300 2/23/04, pinwhiz@... wrote: > "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: >> Has anybody ever heard of TEDELEX games? > A quick google groups search: > http://groups.google.co.nz/groups?selm=4jteni$r13@newnews.iafrica.com&oe=UTF-8&output=gplain > Reveals a 1996 post by a South African with one of these > systems. Oh yeah! I used to correspond with Andre... I wonder what ever happened to him? I did manage a trade for some Creativision carts I needed, but he was mostly looking. Conic apparently also sold some system(s) down there... Hm, maybe I should try to find my old notes... Ah, here we go... In addition to the Atari 2600 (not sure of the brand, but I think actually Atari), Intellivision (by Meltrionics), G7000 (Odyssey2) (Philips), Creativision, the Tedelex, and maybe the Acetronic, there was a Conic system (one of the GI chip systems?) and one called the Teleplay (GI chip? MPT-02?). -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1590 From: "mrjones060" Date: Mon Feb 23, 2004 6:51pm Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found mrjones060 --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > O dear, still that many manuals missing? I have all of these (except > Super Bug) I got some 10-20 manuals ,mainly from Soundic MPT-03 and Intervision 2001some Schmid/Hanimex , that seems to be missing, I could scan those babies to anyone interested. Many of those Intervision 2001 boxes have separate manuals in finnish and in english, is that the case with fg. German boxes ? Also I have have found the original box for Intervision 2001 , that's very curious because all-together I have seen over 20 of those babies but never before the box. Also it seems ,that Soundic MPT-03 were marketed here in Finland along with Intervision 2001...does anyone know where else Soundic was from ? Earlier version of Soundic / Sd-200 is also quite common here mrjones 1591 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Tue Feb 24, 2004 1:55am Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: >I have all of these (except Super Bug) but I hardly have time to scan them all, and typing them down is an impossible task. I could take them to a copy shop and copy all of them and then send that bunch to somebody? Yes, I'm willing. I'm a very fast typist, and I have a scanner now too :-) --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mrjones060" wrote: > I got some 10-20 manuals ,mainly from Soundic MPT-03 and Intervision > 2001some Schmid/Hanimex , that seems to be missing, I could scan > those babies to anyone interested. Yes, I'm interested... 1592 From: "landsmarra" Date: Tue Feb 24, 2004 0:06pm Subject: New Arcadia multicart available on bidiots! landsmarra Hey guys, Not my auction but thought someone might be interested: http://www.bidiots.com/detail.asp?id=900 Thanks, Steve 1593 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Mon Mar 1, 2004 5:42am Subject: "Factory Pack" pictures added stefanpiasecki Hi, as promised more than a week ago I just uploaded some pictures. HELP NEEDED - please see below Here's the description: American Football: has a spelling mistake on the front of the box. English title says "Americain Football" - obviously because the French back says "Football Americain". The guy who created the box didn't check this. My other Arcadia version of the game has this mistake corrected. Does anybody own a Leisure-Vision version without that mistake? Astro Invader: Home Arcade version of this ultra-rare game. Collection: everything that came in this pack. You can also see the TVG system that has NO serial (also no fragments of glue or the sticker) number or any other Quality-Check sticker. Either an early or a late version when a serial number was of no importance anymore Funky Fish manual 1 & 2: The manual of this ultra-rare game typed on a type-writer. Seems as if the game was taken from the production belt shortly before the mass production was started. Dated Dec. 10th, 1982 - written by the original programmer? - Note: single cart has no sticker on back (to see if this was a planned Emerson release since we know that the game appears in the catalogues but was never released). However, on the back of the cart there's a hand-written number "23", the number of the game in Emerson's catalogue. Flight documents 1-4: the flight documents that came with the game. Maybe somebody can help to extract any shipping dates out of these codes to see whether this is an early "off the belt" possibly for a new distributor or games magazine or a late "close down" lot just to get rid of overstocks Hobo: preproduction cart with hand made sticker and a Chinese character (says what?) Red Clash: Tedelex box. Note: all included material is of "Home Arcade" style. The plastic case of the cart is in TVG format (plastic nose on the right side). There were many more Tedelex games in this lot Route 16: this is the only cart that shows the name and cover in TVG style that I ever saw in 20+ years of collecting for the Arcadia family. This game never came out for the TVG and obviously not in Australia, where the white Arcadia boxes were of the same style than the TVG (and not silver/striped like Hanimex or Arcadia USA). So at least this shows that there were carts produced ready to be shipped into countries like Germany or Australia, where games of this style were released Space Attack: a good example for how mixed the components are of many of the games: blue TVG box, Hanimex instructions, Arcadia sticker on front, TVG sticker on back, silver Arcadia inlay I didn't check the game carts for game variations yet (like the Space War / Space Attack variation). Also, Hobo may be different, but I'll find out with time. Stefan 1594 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Mar 1, 2004 7:23am Subject: Re: "Factory Pack" pictures added mc71de Hi Stefan, --- "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Hi, as promised more than a week ago I just uploaded some pictures. Thanks for sharinng- an impressive set, indeed! > You can also see the TVG system that has NO > serial ... number or any other Quality-Check sticker. For what i know from other productrions, serial number stickers are applied very late in the production cycle, just before $gadget is packed in plastic bag, styrofoam and shipping box. Between final assembly and packing, there's not only a 'burn-in' phase, but sometimes a few weeks or months in warehouse followed maybe by another function test (for 'good quality products', this includes not only a 24-hour-test, but only cycling on and off, raising and lowering thze supply voltage to the maximum ratings, etc- i would not bet more than .02 EUR that UAL did more than 'plug in- works- QC though *grin*) So, if our theory is rtue that this packet is a 'grab everything you can get off the storage', it seems quite logical that $storage_worker grabbed a 'naked' console without any serial number sticker. The only way to 'date' this console would be to carefully open it up, and check the date codes on the chips. > Flight documents 1-4: Can't see anything like a date code (sometimes, the printing house that produces such forms adds such things in small print at the border- but i cannot spot this either)- and i guess the phone number is not valid any more today? *g* I assume you have already found out that the box was shipped from Hong Kong to London Heathrow (just to say the obvious) Max 1595 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Mon Mar 1, 2004 8:34am Subject: Re: "Factory Pack" pictures added stefanpiasecki > not only a 24-hour-test, but only cycling on and off, raising and > lowering thze supply voltage to the maximum ratings, etc- i would > not bet more than .02 EUR that UAL did more than 'plug in- works- QC Well, I am always impressed about the quality of any UA console compared to others. They always show clear pictures and the sound is also clean. So there's really nothing I can argue about. I opened up a LV console and, man, this was really sturdy and solid. > The only way to 'date' this console would be to carefully open it > up, and check the date codes on the chips. Yeah, recently opened up a dead LV console. Next to noticing some hand written Chinese characters on the mainboard, I didn't check the chips. Will do so later today. Good idea, mate. > Can't see anything like a date code (sometimes, the printing house > that produces such forms adds such things in small print at the > border- but i cannot spot this either)- and i guess the phone number > is not valid any more today? *g* Believe it or not, I didn't try as yet. But the person is still alive and in London and he was the orginal buyer. That's what the seller told me (his nephew as far as I know), but time didn't allow me to go into this any deeper. > I assume you have already found out that the box was shipped from > Hong Kong to London Heathrow (just to say the obvious) Okay this is where I am taking things personal... no, of course I figured that out. I just thought that another reader of this board might know more about such codes. Flight_doc3.jpg shows the number 160-282. One could think that "82" stands for 1982. But since the FF manual is dated Dec. 10 1982 this would mean that the whole pack was shipped shortly after that date. But I guess it is more complicated than that. Stefan 1596 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Mar 12, 2004 8:39am Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found stefanpiasecki Good morning, unfortunately none of my emails goes through to you, but you can find the pictures in the "Photo"-section. Cheers Stefan 1597 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Mar 26, 2004 8:39am Subject: R2D Tank stefanpiasecki Hi, I remember a short discussion many months ago regarding the roots and origin of R2D Tank that was claimed to be licensed from Sigma. Maybe the following info is old, but I have found this game today: http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?letter=&game_id=12776 This was a Sigma arcade release and the game description is very similar, just that the game isn't called "R2D Tank" but "Red Tank". Why is this? A typo of one of the Chinese programmers / box designers? Or did the producers want to make the game title sound like "R2D2"? Who knows. Stefan 1598 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri Mar 26, 2004 7:23pm Subject: Re: R2D Tank stefanpiasecki > Why is this? A typo of one of the Chinese programmers / box > designers? Or did the producers want to make the game title sound > like "R2D2"? Who knows. Okay, I now also found he official Sigma release "R2D Tank". But still R2D and RED look very similar. Probably just a game variation in order to put another cabinet into the arcade's of the 80s. Stefan 1599 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sat Mar 27, 2004 3:22am Subject: Tanks A Lot vs. Tank Battalion stefanpiasecki Hi, did anybody ever play Namco's "Tank Battalion" (1980)? This one is very similar to Tanks a lot. I can't get the sequel "Tank Force" (1991) to run on my version of Mame - need to get a newer one but it will be funny to see what they made of it after 10 years. Stefan 1600 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sat Apr 17, 2004 11:46pm Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Good morning, > unfortunately none of my emails goes through to you, but you can find > the pictures in the "Photo"-section. > Cheers > Stefan Unfortunately only the uploader of the photos is able to view them at full size; all others are only able to see low-res versions. The Funky Fish manual is not readable at this size. I would suggest uploading those two pages to the files area rather than the photos area, as they will then be available at full size, and I can type them up and add to the list of available manuals. 1601 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sun Apr 18, 2004 6:35am Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found stefanpiasecki > full size; all others are only able to see low-res versions. The > Funky Fish manual is not readable at this size. I would suggest > uploading those two pages to the files area rather than the photos > area, as they will then be available at full size, and I can type > them up and add to the list of available manuals. Sorry, I wasn't aware of this. I am planning to upload more scans anyways since I found another MPT-03 style console, called the "Robdajet MPT-03". I also have a catalogue of this company that is obviously of a later date than the Ormatu catalogue since it shows that some games were removed (like in the late TVG 2000 catalogues) and replaced, Robot Killer being replaced by Escape for example. It also forecasts "Space Vultures" WITH mothership for 1983! By the way: how can I get mails through to you? Stefan 1602 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sun Apr 18, 2004 5:47pm Subject: Re: "Complete" Arcadia / TVG 2000 factory pack found amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > > full size; all others are only able to see low-res versions. The > > Funky Fish manual is not readable at this size. I would suggest > > uploading those two pages to the files area rather than the photos > > area, as they will then be available at full size, and I can type > > them up and add to the list of available manuals. > > Sorry, I wasn't aware of this. I am planning to upload more scans > anyways since I found another MPT-03 style console, called > the "Robdajet MPT-03". I also have a catalogue of this company that > is obviously of a later date than the Ormatu catalogue since it shows > that some games were removed (like in the late TVG 2000 catalogues) > and replaced, Robot Killer being replaced by Escape for example. It > also forecasts "Space Vultures" WITH mothership for 1983! Sounds very interesting... > By the way: how can I get mails through to you? My email address recently changed: the new one is james.jacobs@... 1604 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 7:47am Subject: Funky Fish Typewriter Manual added stefanpiasecki In the files-section you'll also find the scans of the original typewriter manual of Funky Fish incl. it's creation date now. Sorry for doing this so late, but I was very busy in the last 12 weeks. Stefan 1605 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 7:46am Subject: SUPERBUG FOUND stefanpiasecki Hi, as far as I remember, only AMIGANMAGIC once mentioned that he played a game called SUPERBUG and many didn't believe him. But he was right. This game exists. I came across it and picked it up. Please find scans of the manual and box in the files-section (this time I did it right). I didn't play it yet though, but it sounds exciting. Stefan 1606 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 7:49am Subject: New MPT-03 brand found stefanpiasecki I found a new brand for MPT-03 machines: Robdajet (what a strange name!). I own one and it's similar to standard systems (except the sticker). I also have a catalogue which is probably (next to Rene's Ormatu catalogue) the only printed reference to MPT-03 games. I uploaded a scan to the files section. This seems to have been a Swiss distributor. There's something special about this catalogue. First of all, it does not show Superbug which makes me believe that this game came out maybe in the middle of 1983, probably quite unexpected. It does mention a release of Space Vultures WITH mothership for 1983 though. In addition, you'll see remarks about changed game titles or removed games within the catalogue. This indicates that there was at least one earlier edition of this catalogue avilable - and it probably also indicates the fading of this system in late 1982 while at the same time the Arcadia family tried to gain speed. Also, the game titles are somewhat different to other MPT-03 titles. "Golf" is called "Golfer" here. The same applies to other games. I have some of these games and indeed a small and thin sticker hides the original name - so this seems to be a post-lawsuit catalogue. Due to size-limitations I was only able to upload 4 scans in a good quality. I had to reduce the file-sizes, so if you can't read anything, drop me a line and I'll send you all the higher res scans. Finally I have to again mention how exciting the distribution of UAL worked - 20 years ago with no emails, no fax and only Telex and Phones. Awesome. Stefan 1607 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 7:51am Subject: Spare games for sale stefanpiasecki I am cleaning up my lot and will sell loads of spare TVG 2000, Arcadia and MPT-03 games and systems soon. Highlight are Bandai's Dr. Slump and some other rare games, incl. at least one MPT-03 game with a Robdajet sticker on the box. If anybody's interested, drop me a line and I'll send you a list. Stefan 1609 From: je.f@... Date: Fri May 28, 2004 4:28pm Subject: Re: Spare games for sale j_eits_2001 Sorry, I though I was writing to Stefan's private address, but I wasn't... I have deleted the message on the group-page. Jens 1610 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 5:04pm Subject: Re: Spare games for sale stefanpiasecki --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, je.f@g... wrote: > Sorry, I though I was writing to Stefan's private address, but I > wasn't... I have deleted the message on the group-page. > Jens How can I help you? My mail address is: stefanpiasecki@... Cheers Stefan 1611 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 9:06pm Subject: Re: SUPERBUG FOUND mc71de Hi all, --- "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > AMIGANMAGIC Amigansoftware :-) > once mentioned that he played a game called SUPERBUG > and many didn't believe him. *cough* I confess guilty ;-) In fact, it was not a matter of believe, but of facts. Memory can get tricky over the years... (in the past, there have been cases of 'story tellers' as well, but that's a completely different matter) > This game exists. I came across it and picked it up. Great! > Please find scans of the manual and box in the files-section If you ever need some free webspace, feel free to ask me or visit www.arcor.de/ueb/ueber_pia.php OK. Next is to clear up the 'mothership miracle', i think ;-) -mc 1612 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 9:51pm Subject: Re: SUPERBUG FOUND stefanpiasecki > OK. Next is to clear up the 'mothership miracle', i think ;-) > > -mc I have to admit that I am working on this..... but it may take more time than Super Bug. Stefan 1613 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 9:49pm Subject: Video Dictionary Manual scanned stefanpiasecki Hi, I scanned the English section of the Palladium Video Dictionary cart (you know that I hate scanning, right, so I didn't scan the German section). Yahoo doesn't allow me to upload the complete manual, so I only uploaded the first page. If anybody's interested, I can send you the complete archive by mail. Just drop me a line Stefan 1614 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 10:01pm Subject: Re: Video Dictionary Manual scanned mc71de Hi Stefan, --- "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > [Palladium Video Dictionary] > If anybody's interested, I can send you the > complete archive by mail. If you send me the scans, i can make a .pdf from them (no need to shrink anything- my mailbox is rather big, and it'll improve final quality) -mc 1615 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 11:25pm Subject: Re: SUPERBUG FOUND amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Hi, as far as I remember, only AMIGANMAGIC once mentioned that he > played a game called SUPERBUG and many didn't believe him. But he was > right. This game exists. I came across it and picked it up. > Please find scans of the manual and box in the files-section (this > time I did it right). > I didn't play it yet though, but it sounds exciting. > Stefan That's the one!!!!!!! At last!!!!!!!! Many thanks!!! This is not only the FINAL game for the Arcadia to be found but also the BEST. IIRC :-) Now the next step is to get this dumped!!!! I don't have dumping equipment but PeT and others do... 1616 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Fri May 28, 2004 11:34pm Subject: Re: SUPERBUG FOUND stefanpiasecki In the meanwhile I played it and... it's so damed hard!!! But more or less just because of these horrible analog joysticks the MPT-systems have. I didn't get past the first screen. But the game itself is very interesting. It starts with an unique music tune and shows clear graphics. Also the cover truly resembles what you see in the game (sort of). Really a good game. And with about 6 screens (or 5) and those special game rules like those invincibility areas something very fresh. This game's number is 333. The latest game I have is 328 (Space Raiders). Does anybody know what's inbetween? Stefan 1618 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sat May 29, 2004 0:07am Subject: Re: SUPERBUG FOUND amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > In the meanwhile I played it and... it's so damed hard!!! But more or > less just because of these horrible analog joysticks the MPT- systems > have. I didn't get past the first screen. > But the game itself is very interesting. It starts with an unique > music tune and shows clear graphics. Also the cover truly resembles > what you see in the game (sort of). > Really a good game. And with about 6 screens (or 5) and those special > game rules like those invincibility areas something very fresh. > This game's number is 333. The latest game I have is 328 (Space > Raiders). Does anybody know what's inbetween? > Stefan #330 is Horse Racing, don't know about the other missing numbers. 1619 From: "atrionfo" Date: Sun May 30, 2004 4:22am Subject: Arcadia multi (#2001) for Sale atrionfo Hey folks! I'm selling my Arcadia 2001 multicart. It doesn't have any front or back label applied... but I DO have both labels (I just never put them on). The number of my cartridge is 2001 (since, at first, Ward Shrake let us choose the number we wanted; I thought #2001 would be cool). This cartridge has the latest version of the multicart software. These multicarts are no longer available, and they will not be produced again (only about fifty were made). If you want one, this is your ONLY change to grab one. I'm selling it for $200. Adam Trionfo 1620 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sun May 30, 2004 5:53am Subject: Re: Arcadia multi (#2001) for Sale stefanpiasecki > is your ONLY change to grab one. I'm selling it for $200. > > Adam Trionfo Ack! Now I know what they are worth!!! 8-)) Mine is #2 - Ward own #1 I miss him and his wise input by the way. Stefan 1621 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Mon May 31, 2004 11:25am Subject: Alternative Pallets & Mods? kiwigame Good to see there are still some people reading this list :) I recently found another interesting Arcadia family console variation that I'd some clarification about... Its a standard New Zealand "Orbit Electronics Compu-Game" console. Like this one: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/orbitin2.jpg But this console unlike any I've seen before has 2 additional buttons added on the upper top of the console - they appear to be factory installed. I fired the unit and up and have found that one of the buttons operates as a form of "Pallete Select" It alters the background color of the game. I believe this switch is toggling the FLAG variable that selects an alterative Pallete and has been discussed here in the past as one of the differences between a true Arcadia console and some of the other family groups. (Palladium etc) The 2nd button appears to have no visible effect on the display when pressed but I suspect it does something more subtle that will take more gameplay to find. I'm going to try and see if it has any effect on the joystick movement first as I know there are some family differences here. My questions are: 1) Do any of the known Arcadia clones already have these additional switches installed? 2) Are there any other known differences between the families that may be "switchable"? 3) Is there any interest in me taking detailed digital photos of the mods so if anyone really wanted to they could mod there own unit/s? 1622 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon May 31, 2004 4:45pm Subject: Re: Alternative Pallets & Mods? mc71de Hi all, --- pinwhiz@i... wrote: > I believe this switch is toggling the FLAG variable > that selects an alterative Pallete and has been > discussed here in the past as one of the differences > between a true Arcadia console and some of the other > family groups. (Palladium etc) Worse. By far worse. What i *know* is: My Schmid TVG2000 ('PAL Arcadia with notches on the cartridge') does connect FLAG into the color circuitry- thus you can invert the color pallette under program control. (Palladium consoles also have this connection- shown in the schematic and ISTR also verified by inspecting several Palladium consoles) Ward Shrake once confirmed that his Emerson Arcadia 2001 console ('NTSC Arcadia without notches') does nit have this connection, and that is also how the Emerson Service Manual shows things. Some games (but not all! Use of FLAG seems to not have been consistent!) have a different background color on his system (Circus comes to mind? And another remnant of this issue: Tennis has a terrible pink lawn when played on MESS...) OK. Now- do these 'notches' on some Arcadia-family console cartridges actually mean something? Do all Schmid's have said connection? (Frankly, i'd not bet they do!) Do, on the other hand, all Arcadia's NOT have it? (i'd not bet on that either) And- what about the Hanimex 2650: It's PAL, it has the Arcadia motherboard (only the case finish is a bit different)- but it does not have notches at the cartridges. D'uh... connected or not connected, that is here the question. Another possibility comes to mind: maybe in your console, said switch does not connect FLAG to the color circuitry, but only pulls that point low/high? > The 2nd button appears to have no visible effect > on the display when pressed but I suspect it does > something more subtle that will take more gameplay > to find. It is known that the 'Tchibo' Tele-Fever console ('the blue wonder' *g*) has an additional switch for one and two player mode- IIRC this switch is wired into the circuit much like the 'Option', 'Select', 'Start' buttons (if you look at the schematic, the 'missing' button is almost blinking at you...) (One game i ma aware of that queries this switch is 'Soccer'- maybe also other games that were sold under the Tele-Fever label? Hmmm...) Ah, and while we are at the matter: my Schmid console does connect address line A14 to the cartridge port, while other consoles do not (this would make it easy to get 'golf' running without modifying the binary- i once thought about offering an upgrade for Ward's multicart, but as i cannot tell whether or not any given console has that line, or if the console owner can and wants to solder it in, i decided against it) But: Your machine does not have the 'Arcadia-style' cartridge port anyway, right? So this does not apply here at all. > 1) Do any of the known Arcadia clones already have these > additional switches installed? If your second switch is a '1/2player' switch, this would to the best of my knowledge be the Tele-Fever. I haven't read about 'pallette switching switches' yet, but that does not really mean anything. > 2) Are there any other known differences between the > families that may be "switchable"? - FLAG line, - 1/2player switch (and it is a switch, not a button!) - A14 at Arcadia-style cart port (as it is not switchable in my console, it should be safe to just leave it in there) > 3) Is there any interest in me taking detailed digital > photos of the mods so if anyone really wanted to they > could mod there own unit/s? Yes please ;-) (or, if that would be easier for you, write up where the wires are connected to... this might already do the trick) -mc 1623 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Tue Jun 1, 2004 8:58pm Subject: Cart notches, was: Re: Alternative Pallets & Mods? stefanpiasecki > OK. Now- do these 'notches' on some Arcadia-family console > cartridges actually mean something? Do all Schmid's have said > connection? (Frankly, i'd not bet they do!) Do, on the other hand, > all Arcadia's NOT have it? (i'd not bet on that either) > These nodges are IMO nothing but an attempt to stop "grey purchases" for the consoles, since in some countries like Germany both the Hanimex/Arcadia family and the TVG family (with nodges) were sold. The Tele-Fever also has these nodges and it officially says "TVG2000 compatible" (I believe that Schmid bought the TF rights before they decided to bail out and then sold everything to Eduscho). So we had the company Schmid that bought the licenses for a territory and Hanimex, who obviously was a world-wide player. I remember, being a TVG owner, buying Space Squadron for the Hanimex back in 1983. Everything I knew or heard hinted at the game being compatible, but I wasn't entirely sure. But I bought it and founf that it didn't fit due to the notch in the cart-port. I just removed the notch and everything worked well. Stefan 1625 From: "Jens Fickermann" Date: Sun Jun 6, 2004 2:15am Subject: Re: Alternative Pallets & Mods? j_eits_2001 --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mc71de" wrote: > OK. Now- do these 'notches' on some Arcadia-family console > cartridges actually mean something? Do all Schmid's have said > connection? (Frankly, i'd not bet they do!) Do, on the other hand, > all Arcadia's NOT have it? (i'd not bet on that either) Hi everybody, no, not all Arcadia's do not have it. The Australian Emerson Arcadia do have notches. The cartridges and the boxes are in TVG 2000 style, exept that the boxes are white and not blue. I know 15 Australian Arcadia games and they all have the TVG-style with notches, even American Football (!). The other games are Space Raiders, 3d Bowling, Cat Trax, Ocean Battle, Space Vultures, Soccer, Jungler, Alien Invaders, Brain Quiz, Missle War, Breakaway, Space Attack, Space Mission and Escape. I can scan a box if someone is interested. Greetings Jens 1626 From: "Jens Fickermann" Date: Sun Jun 6, 2004 2:31am Subject: Re: New MPT-03 brand found j_eits_2001 --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > I also have a catalogue which is probably (next to Rene's > Ormatu catalogue) the only printed reference to MPT-03 games. > I uploaded a scan to the files section. Hi everybody, I know one more reference: Test, Zeitschrift der Stiftung Warentest, a german consumer protection magazin, tested in its march 1984 issue several consoles. Among others they tested the Poppy mpt-03 with three games: Soccer, Breakaway and Auto Race. They also tested the Schmid TVG 2000, the Hanimex HMG 2650 and the Palladium Video Computer Game. I have scaned the article for a magazin-archive project I'm working on together with a friend, so if anybody wants to have it I can mail it. It's a good quality pdf (about 2,5 mb). Greetings Jens 1627 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sun Jun 6, 2004 5:36pm Subject: Re: Video Dictionary Manual scanned amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > Hi, I scanned the English section of the Palladium Video Dictionary > cart (you know that I hate scanning, right, so I didn't scan the > German section). > Yahoo doesn't allow me to upload the complete manual, so I only > uploaded the first page. If anybody's interested, I can send you the > complete archive by mail. Just drop me a line > Stefan Why not empty the Temporary Files directory? That would free up 4Mb, then you could upload it... 1628 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sun Jun 6, 2004 7:45pm Subject: Re: Video Dictionary Manual scanned stefanpiasecki > Why not empty the Temporary Files directory? That would free up 4Mb, > then you could upload it... Hm, there might some interesting stuff in there. I can either mail you the archive and/or will reduce the size of the scanned Bandai- manuals. Stefan 1629 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Sun Jun 6, 2004 11:50pm Subject: Re-uploaded Bandai manuals stefanpiasecki I decreased the size and resolution of the scans. This freed up about 2Megs of space and everything's still readable. Stefan 1630 From: "oboissea" Date: Wed Jun 9, 2004 0:16am Subject: Re: New MPT-03 brand found oboissea > I have scaned the article for a magazin-archive project I'm > working > on together with a friend, so if anybody wants to have it I can mail > it. It's a good quality pdf (about 2,5 mb). Hi Jens, I would be interested in receiving this PDF Thanks a lot PS : hi to all people here, I'm still reading the posts ____ Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 1636 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 28, 2004 4:43pm Subject: FS: Arcadia 2001 Doc Reference Compilation Book (BIG!) atrionfo I've got a rather cool compilation book that I'm selling on Ebay... http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4315&item=8142215964&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Documentation Reference Compilation Book for Arcadia 2001, Tele-Fever, Bandia Arcadia, Leasure-Vision, etc. Description: This book is a huge compilation of material (from May 10, 2002) that I put together when I was using (and programming) the Arcadia 2001. If you want to program the Arcadia console, then all of the information that you need to get started is inside this book (heck, it's what I used)! Here's the documentation that's inside: 1) Signetics 2650 User's manual 2) Signetics 2650 Instruction Set Summary 3) Signetics 2650 Instruction Set in Numeric Order 4) Signetics 2650 7-Bit Relative Branch Table 5) Arcadia 2001: Character Set 6) Arcadia 2001: Technical Information 7) DASMx (2650 Disassembler) Documentation 8) VACS (2650 Assembler) Documentation 9) Crazy Gobbler disassembly, Hex Dump, and Graphics 10) Arcadia 2001 FAQ (April 14, 2002) 11) Emerson Arcadia 2001 Service Manual 12) Disassembling Crazy Gobbler, or creating a 100% Accurate Arcadia 2001 ROM Image 13) Homebrew Demonstrations 1. Chartest - Displays Character Set 2. Hello - Display's 'Hello World' 3. Sprite02 - Displays eight redefined characters 4. Sprite02 'Graph' Paper 14) Blank 'Graph' Paper Now, take a look at all this, and ask yourself, have you seen anything even like this before? It's a wonderful collection of information! Get it while you can-- there's only one in the entire world! Adam 1638 From: "oboissea" Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 1:34am Subject: What is this screenshot ?! oboissea Have a look here: http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/71139803 What is the game on the far right ? And what is this weird screenshot ?! ___ Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 1639 From: s.freundorfer@... Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:31am Subject: Re: What is this screenshot ?! sf_freispieler The game is Dr. Slump afaik. Don't know about the screenshot. ----- Original Message ----- From: oboissea To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, October 29, 2004 5:34 PM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] What is this screenshot ?! Have a look here:http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/71139803What is the game on the far right ?And what is this weird screenshot ?!___Olivier Boisseauwww.old-computers.com 1640 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Oct 30, 2004 2:19am Subject: Re: What is this screenshot ?! grumpfix oboissea wrote: >Have a look here: >http://page.auctions.yahoo.co.jp/jp/auction/71139803 > >What is the game on the far right ? >And what is this weird screenshot ?! > > arcadia dr slump (mess vcg screenshot in the attachment) (this is the reason I asked for ntsc screenshots/colors) PeT Attachment: (image/png) vcg.png [not stored] 1642 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Fri Nov 26, 2004 9:48pm Subject: ROM dumping amigansoftware Has anyone written, or is anyone willing to write, a tutorial about EA2001 ROM dumping? or even a more generic article about cart dumping? There seems to be a lack of info about this, and most of the EA2001 dumpers seem to have already retired :-( It will be important in the future when/if "Water Games", "Pinball", etc. ever show up... 1643 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sun Nov 28, 2004 6:02pm Subject: Re: ROM dumping grumpfix amigansoftware wrote: >Has anyone written, or is anyone willing to write, a tutorial about >EA2001 ROM dumping? or even a more generic article about cart dumping? >There seems to be a lack of info about this, and most of the EA2001 >dumpers seem to have already retired :-( It will be important in the >future when/if "Water Games", "Pinball", etc. ever show up... > > > basic dumping variants: a) reading cartridge directly special cartridge reader hardware and software (e.g. connected to pc parallel port) a.1) for some common systems professional backup devices exist a.2) adapt one of the homebrew devices for arcadia a.3) do an adapter for a simple digital io board and develope reading software for it a.4) do an adapter for a standard eprom burning device b) reading memory chips eprom reader, direct insertion of PROM chip needed * you need to open cartridge, get/desolder PROM chip (a piggyback adapter might allow dumping of a soldered prom chip without unsoldering it) * your eprom device and its software must support this chip type (might be problematic on these cartridges) * you will lose information on the real address of the device in the console, or address and data lines might be skrambled * parts not accessible via the cartridge connector are dumpable b.1) special software will allow dumping of several more chip types b.2) adapters will allow dumping of cartridges directly and several more chip types c) reading whole console system memory map you use the console, can read the cartridge, but then you have the problem to store/transmit the dump * some parts of the cartridges might be hiding by internal console devices c.1) modifying system (e.g. exchange s2650 cpu with a special microcontroller (atmel?)) (I know a guy who dumped acetronic cartridges with this strategy) c.2) special system software (but this is not possible on arcadia) If I remember correctly you can find all 4 cartridge type pinouts in Ward's faq (and also the pinout of the mostly used eprom chip type). later cartridges should use standard 2732/2764 chips, but might use masked 4kbyte/8kbyte proms with different cs oe level which need special support on the reader/software if variant b) is used. Cartridges and roms chips can be destroyed relativ easily. (power supply voltage level, wrong connection, static discharge, ...) Unfortunately the chip might only get slightly damaged, preventing stable dumps, and is still working most times! Getting an adapter working/developing an adapter without big care is risking cartridges. Doing stable/correct/complete dumps might need several tricks/a lot of experience. (power supply voltage level, power supply current/power, io gate technic, ...) A complete guide for a guy without electronic knowledge and working dumping device/adapter will be long, and still he won't be able to backup cartridges with success. There are many possible strategies to dump cartridges, and it will take a lot of text the describe them satisfyingly. I use strategy a.4) combined with b.1). I collected a lot of experience and have working adapters for palladium vcg, emerson arcadia and vc4000 cartridges. I have the material/connectors to do mpt03, intervision and acetronic adapters. (Opening of such a cartridge type would allow me to check the orientation/connection/completeness of the pinout, but even my first dump of such a cartridge dump would be nearly safe) I dump cartridges and resend them if wanted (postage back is paid by me), as long as it is something new to dump and/or the postage is not very expensiv. Peter 1645 From: "Jens Fickermann" Date: Mon Jan 3, 2005 8:48am Subject: Schmid / Tele-Fever Rarity List j_eits_2001 Happy new year to all of you! I started the new year with some work. After watching ebay auctions, flea-markets, my game dealer, etc. I tried to make a rarity list for the Schmid TVG. In total 119 games for the TVG were offered through this channels. My rating was 6-9 games=R3, 4/5=R4, 3=R5, 2=R6, 1=R7, 0=R8. The only Arcadia stuff I found in the wild was a boxed Tele- fever console, so everything listed is at least R3. The first number is the game number, the second the umber of seen games, the third is the rarity, followed by the name. Any comments are very welcome. 01 8 R3 Brain Quiz 02 3 R5 Crazy Gobbler 03 6 R3 Space Attack 04 1 R7 Robot Killer 05 3 R5 Super Gobbler 06 1 R7 Space Vultures 07 4 R4 Breakaway 08 6 R3 Alien Invaders 09 2 R6 Space Mission 10 5 R4 Ocean Battle 11 2 R6 3d Bowling 12 1 R7 Capture 13 5 R4 Soccer 14 6 R3 Tanks A Lot 15 8 R3 Escape 16 1 R7 Missile War 17 5 R4 Cat Trax 18 9 R3 Space Raiders 19 3 R5 Jungler 20 - R8 Space Squadron (Was it released?) 21 - R8 Star Chess (Was it released?) 22 5 R4 Grand Slam Tennis 23 5 R4 Funky Fish 24 2 R6 Pleiades 25 1 R7 Spiders 26 2 R6 Red Clash 27 4 R4 The End 28 1 R7 Astro Invaders 29 5 R4 Turtles / Turpin 30 9 R3 Jump Bug 31 2 R6 R2D Tank 32 4 R4 Hobo 33 - R8 3d Soccer I also made this a list for the Tele-Fever: Astro Invaders 1 R7 Fu ball 5 R4 Jump Bug 6 R3 Tennis 4 R4 Mr. Altus: Fussball Spiel 3 R5 Invasion von den Sternen 3 R5 Raumfahrt 3 R5 And four consoles (I did not do the rarities in the same way than the one of the games, because the demand is higher for consoles): Schmid 19 R3 (Price: 15,- Euros) Tele-Fever 7 R5 (24,- Euros) Intercord 4 R6 (25,- Euros) Mr. Altus 2 R7 (14,- Euros) All the other data I've collected is to weak for a rarity list. Okay the first rarity list beside the US-Emerson list from the DP- guide, so again: Any comments are welcome. Jens 1646 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Jan 5, 2005 11:04pm Subject: Olivier B., please contact me in private e-mail ward_shrake A message for Olivier B. ... I once borrowed a Robot Killer cartridge from you, and never returned it. I want to mail you something I think you'll like, to make up for that. I need your mailing address. Please send that information to me, in private e-mail. (I don't read any messages here. I'm only here long enough to send this one message.) -- Ward Shrake E-mail address: ward_shrake at yahoo dot com 1647 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Jan 7, 2005 8:39pm Subject: Re: Arcadia multi (#2001) for Sale ward_shrake I'm following up on a post Adam Trionfo made, some time ago. He did not sell his Arcadia 2001 multicart, then ... likely because it did not have proper labels. I'm making him some now, and applying them. If anyone wants a multicart, I'm sure Adam would part with his, as he just sold his console on eBay, not long ago. (Serious offers only, I'm sure he'd say!) I'm also considering selling my own personal multicart ... but as Adam's a good friend of mine, "he goes first". Also: I still "owe" about six former multicart customers one or both labels ... but due to various factors, don't have a handy list of who those people were, right now. Anyone out there, among that group? If so, e-mail me about getting your newly printed label(s). But please, folks, don't abuse the address. I'm retired, yada, yada. -- Ward Shrake e-mail: ward_shrake at yahoo dot com --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "atrionfo" wrote: > Hey folks! > > I'm selling my Arcadia 2001 multicart. It doesn't have any front or > back label applied... but I DO have both labels (I just never put > them on). The number of my cartridge is 2001 (since, at first, Ward > Shrake let us choose the number we wanted; I thought #2001 would be > cool). > > This cartridge has the latest version of the multicart software. > These multicarts are no longer available, and they will not be > produced again (only about fifty were made). If you want one, this > is your ONLY change to grab one. I'm selling it for $200. > > Adam Trionfo 1648 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Jan 7, 2005 8:42pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Manuals_and_instruction_sheets/emdip130.doc Uploaded by : ward_shrake Description : The instruction sheet for Ward Shrake's Arcadia 2001 multicart, version 1.30. (The version that most people have ... except a few that turned down an upgrade, when they had the chance, around CGE 2002.) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Manuals_and_instruction_sheets/emdip130.doc To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ward_shrake 1649 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Jan 7, 2005 8:50pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Programming_examples/Other_languages/multi135.bat Uploaded by : ward_shrake Description : The latest DOS "batch" program, which Ward Shrake once used to create the 512k binary file that was burned into a 27c040 EPROM, for use in Ward's homebrewed Arcadia 2001 multicart. (Fewer than 50 were ever made.) Techies can likely decipher what is where inside the EPROM, by studying this batch file, which has a lot of helpful comments coded into it. It can be read as a normal text file.) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_examples/Other_languages/multi135.bat To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ward_shrake 1650 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Jan 7, 2005 9:13pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Programming_examples/Other_languages/Howdif.bas Uploaded by : ward_shrake Description : After much hard drive data loss and/or reorganization, Ward Shrake finally found his old BASIC program source code files. This is the source code for "HowDif" 1.0 ... a binary file comparison program. (Not pretty, but it worked OK.) You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_examples/Other_languages/Howdif.bas To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ward_shrake 1651 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Fri Jan 7, 2005 9:32pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Programming_examples/Binary_or_object_files/2001-130.bin Uploaded by : ward_shrake Description : This is a very important binary file, if you have one of Ward Shrake's Arcadia multicarts, but you do not have version 1.30 of the EPROM (data) chip that came with it. This is the latest public version of the software: the one that some people turned down, during CGE 2002. (Which turned out to be Ward's last involvement in the Classic Gaming scene.) Burn this into a 27c040 EPROM, and you will have an "upgraded" multicart. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Programming_examples/Binary_or_object_files/2001-130.bin To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ward_shrake 1652 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Jan 7, 2005 10:25pm Subject: Re: ROM dumping ward_shrake --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, > amigansoftware wrote: > > >There seems to be a lack of info about > >this, and most of the EA2001 dumpers > > seem to have already retired :-( Yup, big time. And they have no intention of un-retiring, either. They are much too happy, "laying in a hammock somewhere," as someone noted in the past. (Not saying that to be mean ... just to avoid getting any hopes up. And it doesn't take much, to get them up!?) Moments ago, I did a bunch of "one time good deal" uploads, for this message board group, customers of the no-longer-supported-by-Ward- Shrake Arcadia 2001 multicart, etc. (See the FILES section on the web site, for the new stuff, folks.) One: I just uploaded a bunch of stuff relevant to the multicart I once made. It includes all of the DOS batch files that I once used to create a new 512k binary image file, for burning into a 27c040 EPROM chip; a newly-made copy of version 1.30 of the multicart's 512k file ... that is, the last one before the homebrew's like PeT's, which I did not have his permission to distribute widely. (Some folks are still using an older, perhaps much older version of the multicart data ... as they decided to turn down an offered upgrade, just before I retired.) These things allow someone else -- anyone else who has the technical expertise -- to "support" the multicart. More power to anyone who wants to do so. (As for me, I have long since "moved on," so it is only fair to "allow" others to take over where I stopped.) Two: the source code for "HowDif 1.0" in PowerBasic. I had finally found it, and my other (unrelated) Basic source code files. Likely to be obsolete in purpose now ... but it was requested once upon a time, so I uploaded it just now. Three: I just mailed off all of my archiving cables / adapters, this afternoon. Olivier Boisseau will have them, in about a week. I've told him in e-mail, and will say here, that this ends my personal involvement in dumping or archiving of any kind, for any system. (I have a thousand other things I'd much, much rather do ... so I will.) What this means, is what you probably fear it means: no more techie info from me. No lessons in ROM dumping. None of that. Other people, all too often in places like Usenet, made it abundantly clear that if one Internet Elf (tm) chooses to leave / retire / whatever, somehow, someway, another one will magically pop out of thin air to replace him. I doubted that very much, and still do ... but it is no longer of any real concern to me. I'm taking it on faith they're right. (If not, well, shout them down the next time a Homebrewer is attacked!) This may not be the best possible news, I understand that ... but it is a step towards someone out there, other than Ward Shrake, dumping or archiving carts for this system. (Or the Bally Astrocade: I sent my custom-made archiving cable for that system to Olivier, as well.) Please note that a few years ago, I also gave a similar pair of adapter cables for archiving to Joe Santulli. He got the ones I used at first, to archive things for both systems; I made new ones later, which Olivier will be in possession of, soon. (Both pairs terminated in a long-legged wire-wrap socket, whose legs were plugged into a standard EPROM reader/burner, as if it were the chip being read. On the other end of my adapter cables, was a simple "plug a cart in here" adapter. A bit of minor fiddling may be necessary, to get a cart to seat OK, on the Arcadia one ... a modified floppy cable.) Other notes, since I won't likely be passing this way again.... Olivier was the only person that ended up getting treated badly by me, in terms of a cartridge loan, years ago. Everyone else got their carts back, in good shape, and in a reasonable time. Due to various factors, many/most beyond my control, O's Robot Killer cart -- it didn't even work, when he loaned it to me, as I recall ... but that's not the point -- never got returned to him. I made up for it today by sending him a true one-of-a-kind item: the only pin-compatible (but not necessarily slot-compatible) MPT-03 multicart. It comes in the form of a breadboarded "prototype" I made. (Which was based on my first-ever 8-in-1 "test" multicart; I more or less upgraded that to be a full-fledged multicart, but with an MPT-03 pinout.) As if that wasn't enough, he also got my "MPT-03 to 2001" adapter cable. (Crude little thing, and ugly besides ... but it did work well for both play-adapting and archiving uses.) Both of these latter items were tested fully just last night, so I know the adapter and the multicart do work perfectly. I have no idea if the archiving cables work, but they should ... I see no reason for them not to? At this point, other than wrapping up some personal loose ends -- such as selling my personal multicart, and helping Adam Trionfo to sell his, and hopefully getting multicart labels to a few folks who never got labels when they bought their carts (at a price drop!) ... I am done; finished; history; no mas. Sorry, but tonight "ends it" for me, as far as writing anything about this system ... or any old gaming system, for that matter. I'd much rather play games than talk about them ... but you don't want to hear that, so I won't say it. My point is that you guys are on your own, as you thought ... but a little bit better off this week than last, as it were. Once the package I sent to Olivier arrives, you guys can pool your resources, and see what happens, with a bit more hope for future archiving. -- Ward Shrake, former chief archivist for this console group P.S. -- if anyone from the DPCG guide staff is reading this, please note that my Arcadia 2001 and Bally Astrocade multicarts are no longer made, and that less than 50 carts of each were ever made. As to whomever replaces me, in writing my old guide sections ... I wish you all the luck and happiness possible. Have fun while it lasts! 1654 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Sat Jan 15, 2005 10:22pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Manuals_and_instruction_sheets/Cart-num.htm Uploaded by : ward_shrake Description : The final listing of all the original owners of Ward Shrake's multicarts, for both the Bally Astrocade and Arcadia 2001 game machines. Includes cart numbers; (original) owner's names; dates when made; various other notes from Ward himself. You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Manuals_and_instruction_sheets/Cart-num.htm To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, ward_shrake 1655 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005 7:12pm Subject: Im making an emulator gvnturner you may download the latest pre-release version here http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~gavint/ use arrow keys to select a rom from the list ,then press return key to reset cpu and start iar counter press s for debug step mode press space to get more features!!! its only been worked on for about three weeks, and when I started I didnt know anything at all about the arcadia, thanks to amigan software where I stubbled accross information on the system, the 2650 manual and 2637 uvi manuals you need a windows operating system and a graphics card capable of display mode 640 by 480 and 16bit colour depth it will include in the finished version; hex viewer/ text viewer / dec viewer / editor / dissassembler / assembler / sprite editor / graphics editor / screen editor. remember it isnt finished so none of the games are play-able yet. I would be interested in hearing if anybody tries it or if it doesnt run on there newish system. the source is not based on anyone elses ,and I have not been able to find an emulator for the arcadia that will work on my computers.to try one out. Thanks Gavin Turner. 1656 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:38pm Subject: Re: Im making an emulator mc71de Hi Gavon, your emulator seems to run under WinXP (got a BSOD first but that was caused by too many open programs and too low free HD space?) What's the mapping of the console keys/keypads? One of the 'space screens' only gives some white lines but no text- what's it? A few ideas: - make it run in a window (if that doesn't screw your design) - make the debugger output HEX values - same for the memory viewer- use hex addresses, people are used to them Anyway: Nice work! Keep improving it! BTW: The MESS emulator still has the (in)famous LENKNEN bug. Didn't anyone forward the author's patch from two years ago to MESS team? I'd do it but am quite hesitant to end up as MESS' arcadis maintainer or something... being C-illiterate, i think there are better people for that job ;-) Max 1657 From: "mc71de" Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005 8:41pm Subject: Re: Im making an emulator mc71de Hi all, --- /me wrote: > > Hi Gavon, *desperately hammers on keyboard* ..i..i..i.. Gavin That looks much better, yes. Sorry for the inaccuracy :-) Max 1658 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Jan 29, 2005 9:49pm Subject: Re: Im making an emulator grumpfix Gavin wrote: >the source is not based on anyone elses ,and I have not been able to >find an emulator for the arcadia that will work on my computers.to >try one out. > > MESS Win32 version doesn't work on Windows XP? Or is the arcadia driver broken in the latest MESS version? Then it shouldn't have the cpu core bug as the available MESS versions! Have fun, Peter 1659 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Jan 30, 2005 4:06am Subject: Re: Im making an emulator mc71de Hi Peter, --- Peter Trauner wrote: > MESS Win32 version doesn't work on Windows XP? Of course it does... > Or is the arcadia driver broken in the latest MESS version? Well... they changed 'lenknen' into 'lenlnen' somewhere between 0.79 and 0.90 :-) Other than that, it seems to work as it always did. > Then it shouldn't have the cpu core bug as the available MESS versions! We need a test suite (like the PC64 test suite for the 6502) ;-) Max 1660 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jan 30, 2005 3:46pm Subject: Re: Im making an emulator gvnturner Hi there ,have updated the emulator file at my web page as follows; it has a preferences file now to allow it to start in a window always if you prefer. open the preferences file and change the line "window=0" to "window=1". now it will always start in a window upon startup. (defualt="window=0") USER MANUAL - STARTED. press F7 to toggle between - Windowed or fullscreen display mode F1 start / stop cpu F2 step program F3 slow motion F4 Decimal mode F5 Hexidecimal mode F6 Text view mode (when looking at hex viewer) press space bar to go to the - hex/dec/text/disssembler viewer (press "a" to see assembler code when at hex viewer screen) (later this will be one of the function keys) Console buttons are on keyboard "1" to latch start "2" select "3" reset joypads not added to emulator yet (try next week), emulator has grow by about 1000 line of code per week so far. so it takes while to get round to everything, I am mainly working on the user interface at the moment, as I hope it will be useful in finding and debugging mistakes in the emulator. some of the instructions arent implimented yet ,so there is no chance of playing a game on it yet, sorry try press start on 'grandprix' I will put the newest version of my emulator up each week (or less depending on how tired i am!) 1662 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon Jan 31, 2005 0:00pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Photos_and_scans/Box_artwork/3d bowling.JPG Uploaded by : gvnturner Description : 3d bowling You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Photos_and_scans/Box_artwork/3d%20bowling.JPG To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, gvnturner 1663 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:05am Subject: found a web site selling back issues gvnturner here's a back issue for sale, with a story of the Tunix (NZarcadia) just in-case somebodies interested or looking. just a useless bit of information to stop the cobwebs from growing over this site. 1664 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Fri Feb 11, 2005 10:44am Subject: Re: found a web site selling back issues slapdash26 "Gavin" wrote: > here's a back issue for sale, with a story of the Tunix (NZarcadia) > just in-case somebodies interested or looking. Did you mean to attach a URL? Or a scan? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1665 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Feb 11, 2005 6:34pm Subject: can any person help with technical info gvnturner Hi to any body. Can any body help me with the following technical information about the signetics 2637n UVI in the Arcadia console I am not quite sure yet about the relationship between the registers located at $18FC and $18FF , I know that the UVI register $18FC is written to by all tunix games I also know that 'R2d tank' uses this register to vertical scroll the screen, ;----------------------------------------------------------- $0255 $04 $F5 L$002B LODI R0,$F5 $0257 $CC $18 $FC STRA R0,CRTVERTPOS $025A $04 $0F LODI R0,$0F $025C $CC $18 $FE STRA R0,SNDVOLHSCROLL $025F $07 $0F LODI R3,$0F $0261 $0F $62 $7D LODA R0,DATAL$002C +R3 $0264 $CC $18 $FD STRA R0,SOUNDPITCH $0267 $0C $18 $FC LODA R0,CRTVERTPOS $026A $A4 $02 SUBI R0,$02 $026C $CC $18 $FC STRA R0,CRTVERTPOS $026F $05 $50 LODI R1,$50 $0271 $FA $7E BDRR R2,$0271 $0273 $F9 $7C BDRR R1,$0271 $0275 $FB $6A BDRR R3,$0261 $0277 $04 $EE LODI R0,$EE $0279 $CC $18 $FC STRA R0,CRTVERTPOS $027C $17 RETURN ;----------------------------------------------------------- I have disassembled each game and found that these games store the following values into the Register at $18FC space squadron $ED,$00 nibble $EE,$00 parashoot $00 crazy gobbler $EE robot killer $00 boxing $E0,$C0 star chess $EE,$00 R2Dtank $EE The End $00 Space raiders $00,$ED Tanks a lot $00 space attack $00,$EF funky fish $EE frogger $ED circus $00,$E6 space mission $00,$EE,$F7 ocean battle $00,$EE cat trax $00,$EE capture $ED brain quiz $EE,$E8,$E00 alien invasion $00,$EE escape $00 gp monaco $00,$ED,$EE super gobler $00,$EE I have no information yet on this register ,I quess it is read and write (when read returning the current scan line) , does the 2637 have bits for blanking the edges of the screen for scrolling maybe? If any body could help that would be great. Thanks. 1666 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Feb 12, 2005 1:27pm Subject: useless bit of info gvnturner I noticed that in NZ there arcadia clone came in two colours, one of my consoles looks like the other one's on the net, but the other one has grey controllers and a black case with no woodgrain anywhere on it.(on the box it has woodgrain) 1667 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:27am Subject: Re: useless bit of info mrhaboobi --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Gavin" wrote: > > I noticed that in NZ there arcadia clone came in two colours, > one of my consoles looks like the other one's on the net, but > the other one has grey controllers and a black case with no > woodgrain anywhere on it.(on the box it has woodgrain) Yup thats correct, i have both variations... the controllers are not grey though, both units have the same controllers and the tops are the same, its just the bottom half of the case that differs. Cheers 1668 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 8:32am Subject: Re: found a web site selling back issues mrhaboobi --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Gavin" wrote: > > here's a back issue for sale, with a story of the Tunix (NZarcadia) > just in-case somebodies interested or looking. > > just a useless bit of information to stop the cobwebs from growing > over this site. do you have the link? 1669 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 1:14pm Subject: Re: can any person help with technical info amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Gavin" wrote: > Can any body help me with the following technical information > about the signetics 2637n UVI in the Arcadia console > > > I am not quite sure yet about the relationship between the registers > located at $18FC and $18FF , According to the 2637 UVI manual, $18FC is "the complement of the number of lines from the trailing edge of vertical drive to start character display", (ie. a vertical screen offset). $18FF (bits 3..0) is "Row" (ie. current character line). "$F implies beginning of DMA, $D indicates end of DMA.". You should download the 2637 UVI manual, it will be helpful... 1670 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:49pm Subject: Re: can any person help with technical info gvnturner --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "amigansoftware" wrote: > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Gavin" > wrote: > > Can any body help me with the following technical information > > about the signetics 2637n UVI in the Arcadia console > $18FF (bits 3..0) is "Row" (ie. current character line). "$F implies > beginning of DMA, $D indicates end of DMA.". Yes fully understand this register from the help you have provided, it seems to be critical to get this one right. This is the one i need help with > According to the 2637 UVI manual, $18FC is "the complement of the > number of lines from the trailing edge of vertical drive to start > character display", (ie. a vertical screen offset). I found the register in page 7 of the manual ,it describes this register at $18FC - VOFFSET as above. there isnt a bit by bit break down of the register, I am assuming that it does a little more than vertical scroll the screen, because some of the values written to it are very high my wild stab in the dark would be, 1. is it some kind of border blanking register to be used in conjuction with scrolling games? 2. or some other kind of display control register? 3. even more unlikely ,an IRQ when $18FC = Voffset I have seen so far from the games I have disassembled, BIT7 and BIT6 always being SET '1' and BIT4 always being SET '0' BIT5 is always SET '1' with BOXING as the only exception setting BIT5 to '0' if it was just for vertical scrolling wouldnt all the games that do not vertical scroll just set it to zero? brain quiz WRITES three different values into this register: 1--->11101110 2--->11101000 3--->00000000 I dont yet understand this one yet. or im too tired and need 6 more coffees to figure it out. Thanks. 1671 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Feb 13, 2005 7:58pm Subject: Re: found a web site selling back issues gvnturner --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "mrhaboobi" wrote: > do you have the link? VERY sorry ,I lost it ,when I installed my TV card ,I got the blue screen of death, followed by an unbootable computer. the story has a good end, after taking my computer in and using there driver CD and getting the IR reciever replaced (IT DIDNT WORK ASWELL!) i was then able to tune it to my tunix/arcadia console. I captured some screen shots of my console and recorded the noise sound and a note ,which I can play back at different freq. to sound like the arcadia. Thanks. 1672 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:46am Subject: Re: found a web site selling back issues kiwigame > Message: 2 >Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:32:35 -0000 > From: "mrhaboobi" > Subject: Re: found a web site selling back issues > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Gavin" > wrote: > > > > here's a back issue for sale, with a story of the Tunix > > (NZarcadia) just in-case somebodies interested or > > looking. > > just a useless bit of information to stop the cobwebs from growing over this site. > > do you have the link? I'm sure he's refering to this: http://www.retrogames.co.uk/magazine/html/issue_18.html A couple of years ago I emailed the guy who publishes that magazine (Jason Moore) and he said the article was written by a Christchurch (New Zealand) based collector. Cheers. Michael 1674 From: "Gavin" Date: Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:42pm Subject: Emulation gvnturner The emulator at my site has been updated http://homepages.slingshot.co.nz/~gavint/ sound and noise added. colour updated - colours grabbed from capture card pictures. vastly improved over previous version but remember not finished yet it is still unfinished and doesnt have the controllers yet. and no collision detection also I would be interested in hearing of any compatability issues with this software. or any comments in general. I think it will run on most versions of windows ,but I am unable to test this out. press space bar to enlarge game and run at full speed. 1 key for start button. Thanks. 1675 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Feb 25, 2005 0:32pm Subject: I need a little help gvnturner does anyone know where I can get some interton VC4000 / radofin1292 ROMs from? or any ROMs using the signetics 2636 chip they would be useful for testing Thanks. 1676 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Mar 4, 2005 8:27pm Subject: 1392 gvnturner dont worry about the roms ,I have removed the edge connector from my old system, I just finished building a rom dumper for the radofin 1392, It was tricky the 9316 has upto 3 Chip select pins. I found the following web site invaluable for tristating the data lines and testing parallel port projects for all versions of windows http://neil.fraser.name/software/lpt/ it works on windows 95/98/2000/nt/me/xp through the parallel port! (with the help of some VisualBasic code) piece of piss ,now I will just dump the carts I have. im off to try and plug some cmos ram into an gutted cartridge now,later I can adjust my reader to write to cmos ram inside a rebuilt cartridge then with it battery backed up, plug it into a 1392 and run it!!, I read about that at a website while looking for tech info. 1677 From: "mrhaboobi" Date: Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:45am Subject: FA: Parts of my collection.. mrhaboobi Just thought id let people know that im selling off parts of my collection to raise money to go to LA.. Thought some items might interest people here.. http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZmrhaboobi Thanks 1681 From: je.f@... Date: Thu Apr 7, 2005 3:59am Subject: New Ormatu-family-console found j_eits_2001 I found a new brand for Ormatu-family-consoles: Inno-Hit Home Entertainment Centre CH-50. The console is silver / black (like the Sheen), but with brown buttons. It came with two games Space Mission and Sea Battle, both with overlays and overlays for Basketball and Soccer. The cartridges are the common black ones with yellow labels. Unfortunately everything was unboxed. If someone is interested in pictures of the console I can make some. Jens 1682 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu Apr 7, 2005 4:13am Subject: Re: New Ormatu-family-console found slapdash26 je.f@... wrote: > I found a new brand for Ormatu-family-consoles: Inno-Hit Home > Entertainment Centre CH-50. [...] > If someone is interested in pictures of the console I can make some. I'd love to see pix. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1683 From: "Stephan" Date: Thu Apr 7, 2005 4:25am Subject: AW: New Ormatu-family-console found sf_freispieler Me too! -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Russ Perry Jr [mailto:slapdash@rcn.com] Gesendet: Mittwoch, 6. April 2005 20:13 An: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Betreff: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] New Ormatu-family-console found je.f@gmx.net wrote: > I found a new brand for Ormatu-family-consoles: Inno-Hit Home > Entertainment Centre CH-50. [...] > If someone is interested in pictures of the console I can make some. I'd love to see pix. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@rcn.com [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1684 From: "oboissea" Date: Thu Apr 7, 2005 5:40am Subject: Re: New Ormatu-family-console found oboissea > If someone is interested in pictures of the console I can make some. I would love to these pix too! In fact, I would like to include this system (and all other family systems in a long term) in www.old-computers.com. So that would be wonderful if you could make pictures that I could use with your permission... Thanks a lot ________ Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com Webmaster 1685 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Apr 18, 2005 6:49pm Subject: emulation gvnturner managed to dump "Tank Plane Battle" for the fountain console. (WHY DO THEY HAVE THREE CHIP SELECT PINS ????????) the games start pretty much the same as arcadia games with the interupt address at $0003,this should be a relatively straight foward machine to emulate. in case any body is interested or not ,I dont know, but I am still slowly working on the arcadia emulator, I have got the controlls working perfectly , any issues left over seem to be around timing. I am not trying to create another mame but just simply have an interest in doing this as a personal programming experience/experiment. I will update the emulator in a few weeks, as I am using a trial version of cute-ftp and it has expired. the next one will be a big improvement on the one at my site currently. and will include tank plane battle. and some new tricks. I plan on finishing it by the end of this year completely,because I am working on other things as well ,it will take time. HERE IS A SAMPLE OF "TANK PLANE BATTLE." $0000 $20 START EORZ R0 $0001 $1B $03 BCTR UN,$0006 ;----------------------------------------------------------- $0003 $1F $03 $F6 L$0001 BCTA UN,$03F6 ;----------------------------------------------------------- $0006 $06 $01 L$0002 LODI R2,$01 $0008 $C3 STRZ R3 $0009 $20 EORZ R0 $000A $93 LPSL R0 $000B $92 LPSU R0 $000C $76 $27 PPSU $27 $000E $77 $02 PPSL $02 $0010 $C1 STRZ R1 $0011 $CD $7F $00 STRA R0,SPRITEDATA0+R1 $0014 $D9 $7B BIRR R1,$0011 $0016 $CE $1F $0E STRA R2,$1F0E $0019 $46 $7F ANDI R2,$7F $001B $CE $1F $C9 STRA R2,SCORE23 $001E $04 $FF LODI R0,$FF $0020 $CC $1F $C8 STRA R0,SCORE01 $0023 $CF $1F $0F STRA R3,$1F0F $0026 $0F $67 $AE LODA R0,$07AE+R3 $0029 $44 $0F ANDI R0,$0F $002B $18 $0E BCTR LT,$003B $002D $0C $67 $A6 LODA R0,$07A6+R0 $0030 $C1 STRZ R1 $0031 $07 $2D LODI R3,$2D $0033 $0D $46 $C6 LODA R0,$06C6+R1,- $0036 $CF $7F $7F STRA R0,$1F7F+R3 $0039 $DF $78 $20 BIRA R3,$1820 $003C $07 $1F LODI R3,$1F $003E $CF $7F $4D STRA R0,$1F4D+R3 $0041 $FB $7B BDRR R3,$003E $0043 $C1 STRZ R1 $0044 $3F $02 $3B BSTA UN,$023B ;----------------------------------------------------------- 1686 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Mon Apr 25, 2005 1:10pm Subject: Re: emulation amigansoftware --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Gavin" wrote: > > in case any body is interested or not ,I dont know, but I am still > slowly working on the arcadia emulator, I have got the controlls > working perfectly , any issues left over seem to be around timing. > > I will update the emulator in a few weeks, as I am using a trial > version of cute-ftp and it has expired. the next one will be a big > improvement on the one at my site currently. and will include tank > plane battle. and some new tricks. So the emulator will emulate both machines (Fountain and Arcadia)? Sounds quite promising. You can upload to the files area here via WWW without needing an FTP client. 1687 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu Apr 28, 2005 9:33pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Disassembled roms/ASTROINVADERS.TXT Uploaded by : gvnturner Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Disassembled%20roms/ASTROINVADERS.TXT To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, gvnturner 1688 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun May 8, 2005 0:59pm Subject: About Joystick multiplexing gvnturner Hi everyone, I was just looking at Pual Robsons emulator where he stated "Occasionally the paddles get swapped over." "Yes, its a total bodge caused by the truly amazing way the paddle axes are multiplexed." "Sorry, but I haven't cracked this one yet, in catrax it's to do with instruction timing on the delay loop which plays the rinky-dink tune at the start (and stops frame counting) I have know found that this is Crap and the joystick multiplexing is in-fact controlled bit 6 in the register at $19f9. So the current joystick direction horizontal or vertical is controlled by the machine code. If his emulator is swapping joystick directions this could be caused by a bug in the cpu emulation. 1689 From: "clubninja2001" Date: Wed May 11, 2005 5:05am Subject: Selling Arcadia 2001 Multicart V1.3 clubninja2001 Ok, here's the deal folks. I've decided to sell this sucker. It's flawless, number 23, signed by Ward. Is there any interest here or does everyone pretty much already have one? I really want it to go to a proper home. Email me directly at bertulli@... if you have any questions. Sorry to make my only post in ages be a selling one, but this is clearly the best place for it.. I think. 1690 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Sun May 22, 2005 8:38pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Hardware_information/New Text Document (2).txt Uploaded by : gvnturner Description : fountain/interton rom chip details You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_information/New%20Text%20Document%20%282%29.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, gvnturner 1692 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed May 25, 2005 10:21pm Subject: About Arcadia RAM gvnturner Does anybody know why A9 is wired to ground, I thought this is interesting, is this console using all the RAM avaliable to it? Grounding A9 would half the capacity of the RAM chips? I have looked inside one of my consoles and confirmed that pin 15/A9 in grounded this seems very odd to me. aRCADIA RAM CHIP PIN-OUT BY GAVIN TURNER 11:46 PM 5/25/2005. MCM2114 A6 1 +-v-+ 10 R/W A5 2 |O | 11 D0 A4 3 | | 12 D1 A3 4 | | 13 D2 A0 5 | | 14 D3 A1 6 | | 15 A9 - Tied permenantly to GND in the arcadia A2 7 | | 16 A8 CE 8 | | 17 A7 GND 9 +---+ 18 VCC please let me know of anymistakes. also I looked at the "patch" file by james jacob(amigan software) and counted all user RAM going by the memory map. I came to a total of 500 bytes, does this mean there is another 11 bytes of RAM somewhere? 1693 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed May 25, 2005 10:28pm Subject: Alien invaders gvnturner I just played Alien invaders on my console and confirmed that when you shoot the bases the wrong blocks are removed,this is a bug in the real game. I think I actually prefer the fountain invaders! at least the controllers respond much better. 1694 From: "Rikard Ljungkvist" Date: Wed May 25, 2005 11:19pm Subject: Re: Arcadia RAM this is strange??? dum_eller Hi! Just guessing here... could have been that the unit was designed with another RAM part from the start and that this part was pin compatible with the 2114 but had half the capacity. To ensure future availability the A9 of 2114 was tied to ground to assure that it would not float in the case the higher capacity part was mounted. Best Regards, Rikard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin" To: Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2005 1:55 PM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia RAM this is strange??? > Does anybody know why A9 is wired to ground, I thought this is > interesting, is this console using all the RAM avaliable to it? > wouldn't grounding A9 half the capacity of the RAM? > > I have looked inside one of my consoles and confirmed that pin 15/A9 > in grounded this seems very odd to me. > > > aRCADIA RAM CHIP PIN-OUT BY GAVIN TURNER 11:46 PM 5/25/2005. > > MCM2114 > A6 1 +-v-+ 10 R/W > A5 2 |O | 11 D0 > A4 3 | | 12 D1 > A3 4 | | 13 D2 > A0 5 | | 14 D3 > A1 6 | | 15 A9 - Tied permenantly to GND in the arcadia > A2 7 | | 16 A8 > CE 8 | | 17 A7 > GND 9 +---+ 18 VCC > > > please let me know of anymistakes. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > 1695 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 6:04am Subject: Re: Arcadia RAM this is strange??? mc71de Hi Gavin and Rikard, --- "Rikard Ljungkvist" wrote: > Just guessing here... could have been that the unit was designed > with another RAM part from the start and that this part was pin > compatible with the 2114 but had half the capacity. You're almost there :-) a 'half 2114' chip does not exist for the best of my knowledge, but the rest of the story is 'hot': The system diagram in the UVI data sheet page six has four 2112 ramchips as display ram. These are 256x4 bit chips- and indeed, the very first units of the Palladium Video Game Computer had this. Later VGC units, and all known other 2637 consoles (which were released later than the VGC) replaced this with two 2114 chips, but only used half of it by tieing A9 to ground. See also for mention of this peculiarity. I thought about making available the now unused RAM but it proved rather difficult: the 2637 delivers the RAM CS, but only for the well-known 512 bytes. When it does it's screen ram access, there's nothing valid on the higher address bits- so you'd need quite some glue logic. Too much for an el cheapo video games console, so it was never done 'back then'. Program carts could not have used it anyway, because such programs would not run on the older consoles The existing incompatibilities across the 2637 console family members would be a story for themselves... in fact, there is one such case *within* one cartridge format, but as far as it is known, it was never used by an official cart. Now, if anyone wonders why this was done at all: Just and only because the old 2112 chips became obsolete, more expensive than it's larger counterpart (even if you only use half of it) and maybe were completely discontinnued. The VGC appeared in mid-'81, the Emerson Arcadia in late '82, that's *ages* in that time frame. Max 1696 From: "mc71de" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 6:14am Subject: Re: About Joystick multiplexing mc71de Hi Gavin, --- "Gavin" wrote: > I was just looking at Pual Robsons emulator where he stated > > "Occasionally the paddles get swapped over." [snip] Please keep in mind that Paul's emulator (and the current driver in MESS) were written without *any* knowledge about the 2637 chip and the real timing. When we found the data sheet (and then, two independant sources within the same year!) i was amazed how close Paul and PeT got, just with trial and error, comparing with what the real machine does. Hat off for that! > I have know found that this is Crap and the joystick > multiplexing is in-fact controlled bit 6 in the register > at $19f9. I think that was already handled correctly by the MESS driver. > So the current joystick direction horizontal or vertical > is controlled by the machine code. If his emulator > is swapping joystick directions this could be caused > by a bug in the cpu emulation. Paul did not recognize the switch bit (a bit hard since on the 2637 the control registers are in the same memory area as the data ram) and assumed something like 'reading the POT register gives X and Y, alternatingly'. Most of the time this worked, but not always... Max 1697 From: "amigansoftware" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 1:15pm Subject: 3 MPT-03 manuals available for download amigansoftware They are as follows: Break Away Combat Devilman the Dot Muncher http://www.geocities.com/smetacarn/ Enjoy. 1698 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 2:12pm Subject: Re: About Joystick multiplexing gvnturner > Please keep in mind that Paul's emulator (and the current driver in > MESS) were written without *any* knowledge about the 2637 chip and the > real timing. When we found the data sheet (and then, two independant > sources within the same year!) i was amazed how close Paul and PeT > got, just with trial and error, comparing with what the real machine > does. Hat off for that! Definitly Hats off to Paul Robson and PeT!!!!, I fully realise im only a learner when it comes to this machine, and im still retracing in footsteps of other more advanced experts; I am absolutely amazed at how hard this system is to emulate! I have taken a break from it for a while and only now trying again. I seem to be stuck around to displays Sense line, I tried re-writing it then some of the games will work, but then other's that did work dont,basicly I have hit a "brick wall". So now I have taken a ROM chip out of a cartrigde and try to put two 2114 rams into it, im still thinking it over ,just purchased several quad "AND" gates, to allow programing the RAM via a parallel port with a binary counter and the data lines. I want to get "inside" the machine to see exactly what is going on. the Cpu is simply more complicated than a simple Z80 or 6502! 1699 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu May 26, 2005 3:10pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /RAM cartridge/RAM cartridge.txt Uploaded by : gvnturner Description : You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/RAM%20cartridge/RAM%20cartridge.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, gvnturner 1700 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 3:17pm Subject: RAM cartridge gvnturner Hi I have temporarly added a new folder in the files section called RAM cartridge, Take a look and see if you could fault my first idea? I have never attempted such a thing before, but Im sure going to try, My idea is to try and build a Cartridge with a plug coming out of it going into my PC, I will attempt to put code into the Cartridge without need to remove it from the console; I realise that I will only have a small amount of RAM but I just want to try and put some small 2650 routines into it. alternately I have a CMOS 8k by 8bit RAM chip in my possesion, should I use that maybe? I would Love to here from any members about it. 1701 From: "Rikard Ljungkvist" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 5:19pm Subject: Re: RAM cartridge dum_eller Hi! Wouldn't the data bus need to be bi-directional? To/from the console, I mean. If you want to do this the "easy" way then I think that you should remove the 2114 ic's and replace them with a dual port memory. Then you would not have to think about enabling/disabling the memory when accessing it from the PC :) Best Regards, Rikard ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gavin" To: Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2005 7:17 AM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] RAM cartridge > Hi I have temporarly added a new folder in the files > section called RAM cartridge, Take a look and see > if you could fault my first idea? > > I have never attempted such a thing before, but > Im sure going to try, > > My idea is to try and build a Cartridge with a plug > coming out of it going into my PC, I will attempt to > put code into the Cartridge without need to remove it > from the console; > > I realise that I will only have a small amount of RAM > but I just want to try and put some small 2650 routines > into it. > > alternately I have a CMOS 8k by 8bit RAM chip in my > possesion, should I use that maybe? > > > I would Love to here from any members about it. > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > 1702 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 7:31pm Subject: Re: RAM cartridge gvnturner --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "Rikard Ljungkvist" wrote: > Hi! > > Wouldn't the data bus need to be bi-directional? To/from the console No i dont think so; because the console only reads from the cartridge. (writes will still go to the RAM inside the console) I will connect the (tri-stated bi-directional) databus from the parallel port directly to the high speed CMOS RAM. Write's to the RAM wont reach the console's DATABUS through the outputs of the AND gates But the console will be able to READ from the RAM THE console's ADDRESS BUS would clash with the ADDRESS BUS provided by the binary counter during programing the RAM so this will be "CLOSED OFF" by the AND gates. I have started making it so I should know within a few days 1703 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 7:38pm Subject: Re: RAM cartridge gvnturner > Write's to the RAM wont reach the console's DATABUS through > the outputs of the AND gates > But the console will be able to READ from the RAM > THE console's ADDRESS BUS would clash with the ADDRESS BUS provided > by the binary counter during programing the RAM so this will > be "CLOSED OFF" by the AND gates. sorry i got that wrong above I meant to get the address bus and data bus round the other way, I just bashed that one in to fast sorry about that. 1704 From: "Rikard Ljungkvist" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 7:54pm Subject: Re: Re: RAM cartridge dum_eller Hi! >> Write's to the RAM wont reach the console's DATABUS through >> the outputs of the AND gates >> But the console will be able to READ from the RAM > >> THE console's ADDRESS BUS would clash with the ADDRESS BUS provided >> by the binary counter during programing the RAM so this will >> be "CLOSED OFF" by the AND gates. > > sorry i got that wrong above I meant to get the address bus and data > bus > round the other way, I just bashed that one in to fast Ah, sorry, I was under the impression that it was the RAM inside the console that was to be written to :) I guess it will work then. But what you should do is to make a cart that will interface to regular USB memory! Just save the file to the USB memory and then plug the memory into the interface cart! No connection what so ever between the computer and the console. When you have done this you could use the design on various console types! Perhaps too much work for a project like this. Another way to do it that would be non volatile would be to replace the RAM with FLASH memory, that way you can program it stand-alone and boot up the console with the program/cart as would you do a regular game cart. Or you could have a battery back-up for the RAM solution. Best Regards, Rikard 1705 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 9:46pm Subject: Re: RAM cartridge gvnturner Yes my design might seem a bit primitive, I know there are better ways of doing it but since I built my interton ROM cart reader around this design, I thought I would build my proto-type based on that Since I had a 70ns Cmos ram chip in my draw I thought I would chuck it in, I saw a similar design for a atari 2600 where they used a battery to keep the ram memory present while they plugged it into the console after programming it. If it works I will of course publish the circuit design at this group Im in the process of building a proto-type right now, I all ready have the software to program the binary counter through the parallel port also. 1706 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu May 26, 2005 9:51pm Subject: RAM cartridge gvnturner Also I really dont want to remove the cartridge from the console to program it. 1710 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:07pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /ROM dumping/lrdsetup.exe Uploaded by : gvnturner Description : Little rom dumper You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/ROM%20dumping/lrdsetup.exe To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, gvnturner 1711 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Jun 20, 2005 10:18pm Subject: Little rom dumper uploaded gvnturner Hi, I have just written this little tool in VB.net for transfering rom cartridge's over to your pc, I tested it with some fountain carts and it worked fine. Curcuit board design will follow in the 'files\rom dumping' folder later. 1712 From: "landsmarra1" Date: Thu Jun 23, 2005 3:09am Subject: Arcadia 2K1 console and multicart for sale! landsmarra1 Hello all, If anyone is interested, I have for sale a nice, complete 2K1 console with box and manual and multicart. This multicart was not produced by Ward but it was produced with his knowledge and consent as he is no longer "in the business." The multicart has all the ROM images that were available about a year ago (including non-US) and is operated by dipswitches. In a way, this multicart is better than Ward's as it has more images on it. Everything functions perfectly. If anyone wants to know if a specific game is on the cart, please email me at landsmarra@.... Thanks, Steve 1713 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:00pm Subject: Arcadia and 1392 gvnturner **Emulator update** new URL download emulator from here: http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz windows installer now used instead of manually unzipping etc. 1392 game included , 0lympics new game selection interface. now works with "emmenu" frontend. emulator needs more work still not there yet. started working on a compiler for signetics2650 simple but will make writing homebrews easy, tested it works ok so far. any suggestions would be welcome here are the commands so far; (N= variable or constant) nop ;no operation hires ;hi-resolution display mode Lores ;Low-resolution display mode graphics ;block graphics mode text ;text mode screencolour N ;display background colour sync ;wait for Vertical refresh syncrow N ;wait for DMA n goto label ;branch command gosub label ;branch subroutine return ;return from subroutine .label ;label print text,x,y ;text at column,row noiseon ;switch on noise channel noiseoff ;switch off noise channel soundon ;switch on tone channel soundoff ;switch off tone channel volume N ;tone channel volume hscroll N ;horizontal scroll control vscroll N ;vertical scroll control 1714 From: kelin Date: Mon Aug 8, 2005 5:35am Subject: Game Development eBooks kelin_ning Game development ebooks, super low price!For details, see:http://ebooks.payol.org (click on "game development") Yahoo! Mail for Mobile Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone. 1715 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Aug 19, 2005 8:51am Subject: controllers gvnturner Just realised thanks to james (amigan software) that circus requires a full analog joystick to play ,and it would be unplayable on the Arcadia version of this console. (I dont know If this is yesterdays news but im happy to have learnt one more piece to the puzzle!) The next update of my beta emulator(29 August) will allow for this new informaton. Emulator Updated: complete reconstruction of source code. 1. DAR instruction implimented 2. retro VGA monitor look given to pixels 3. Sprites colour and enlarge registers where back to front 4. colours are now same as real machine 5. left column of pixels where missing from graphics mode display. 6. video-DMA routine re-written 7. background colour change showing at bottom of screen (turtles turpin etc...) 8. Vertical Scroll register know working correctly. Things to do: 1. Sprite collision not implimented 2. ZBSR instruction not correct. 3. Rewrite sound handler function 4. change/update controller keys Emulator will be Updated next for download on: 29 August Look-out for Paint-2001 in development , ready for beta testing possibly 29-August-2005. Its already 75% developed, Forget pen and paper and slow binary conversions.A new file format will be made for paint2001 instead of .bmp (using compression techniques I developed from my "space base" dos game (upto 6 times compression!!), (I will need this for the Games I plan on developing for the Arcadia) (I will also allow for screen snap shots to be captured for loading and editing with paint2001). Ram-cart - will have to get back to that one, data-lines are not reading back stable yet, possibly something to do with CS lines. But there's more than one way to boil an egg anyway. Have Fun. 1716 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Aug 20, 2005 10:12am Subject: Emulator 2001 progress gvnturner Its looking like my emulator is progressing full steam ahead after being stuck for a long peroid of months, Ready for download (29 August!) 1. Timing issues resolved, previously the emulation would speed up and slow down. 2. Sound problems resolved, Accurate sound will be in the next update 3. Scores now work in games 4. Sprite Collision's implimented. The next beta release will include The following fully playable Arcadia Games: Spiders Web,Gobbler, Parashoot,Astro Invaders, tanks alot, The end ,red clash ,R2d tank. 1717 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Aug 22, 2005 7:02pm Subject: Space Attack UA gvnturner just for future reference ,I was just playing some of the arcadia games on the real console and thought that it might be a good idea to list some flaws that are in the real game, that could be difficult to tell if the are supposed to be there or bugs in emulator code if you dont have access to a real console. SPACE ATTACK: Waves of aliens have movement glitch when diving, Player1 can come from off screen from the left but appears suddenly and fully in view when starting from the right. SPIDERS: When you are hit and you ship explodes the smoke sprites dont dispear when the reach the edge of the screen instead they "slide" along it. Sound sounds like its going beserk but this is real!!! high notes shrieking all over the place. TURTLES TURPIN: When you press the start button ,the turtles become cars for a screen frame. ALIEN INVADERS: rows of aliens dont move like other spacey's they sorta follow you to whatever side of the screen you are on, oh and the bottom row sorta get stuck? when you shoot the bases the wrong blocks are removed. The whole thing was more like spaceys on LSD to me. More later.... 1718 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Sep 11, 2005 9:00pm Subject: emulator updated gvnturner the emulator 2001 is know updated again and ready for use! with some movies of real games! go; arcadia>more... http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz The keyboard layout has been completely re-written new raster based screen rendering means timing is now very close, down to the moving background lines! new feature: - sprite de-multiplexing - works perfectly! new feature: - Warp high-speed mode enjoy! will post when next update ready for download. 1719 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Sep 18, 2005 4:00pm Subject: updates gvnturner emulator updated again, BASIC2001 is on the way... Basic2001 will be here soon ,integer 2650 compiler. Try it out by installing package, open the folder containing the emulator, then open "basic2001.exe" Then click "open", open "example1.txt", then click on build > arcadia. I have just spent the last 8 hours writing code for this compiler so that third parties can add there own commands ,it is now possible to expand the command library without limit. take a look in the "commands" folder to see how easy it is. OH and dont panic "old skoolers" Basic2001 will understand assembler language. Compiler Features; object code is pure machine code ,I believe there will be no speed loss what so ever compared against hand-programmed machine code!!!!due to new techniques (Basic was traditionally known as slow..as...mud) Rapid software development - see the results of your work instantly, (takes about 1 second) by clicking "build" you run the code for testing in the emulator. press "escape" to exit back to basic2001 for making changes. more coming..... 1720 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:21am Subject: interesting but useless gvnturner Here is one of the most unless bits of information you most probly havent heard of yet! Interestingly Dr-slump is the only game written for the arcadia that very carefully doesn't write to unmapped memory areas!!!!!! All the others simply write to memory where or not it exists (like unmapped area's between the upper and lower screen addresses) 1721 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:23am Subject: object draw order? gvnturner can anybody tell me if in the game astro invaders (which is one of the carts i dont have yet.) Do the players missile sprites appear infront or behind your craft? only on the real console please. 1722 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Sep 28, 2005 11:36am Subject: more RAM I think so.... gvnturner call me crazy but surely you could increase the ram in the arcadia console by.... why not cut the link between the RAM pin(A9) and ground, then run a jumper wire from A12 on the Cpu to the old link! I believe this would double the RAM but you would only be able to run 4K carts, you would access the RAM by adding $2000 to the already mapped ram addresses. Maybe add a switch to the console,this would allow larger ROMS to run as normal. Im going to try it as soon as I can get hold a another console!! Did the console designer's "remove" the extra RAM because this would mean you would only have 4K of ROM space available. This is one thoery im going to test...... 1723 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:27pm Subject: Next months updates. gvnturner Next month the emulator will include some more features ontop of already mentioned ones. one new feature will be F11. shows a realtime memory map view done by ploting a pixel per ram location to the screen, diferent colours mean different things, it will be an interesting tool, you cant normally "see" what is going on in memory, I have found it interesting myself.It proving useful for debugging the emulator. Later Network games are on the cards, play battle across the internet!!!! "Basic2001" will include an "in-line assembler" and will be able to re- build files from "Dasmx" and the dumps from the emulator itself, you will be able to patch or re-code routines just by pressing F12 to create the text dissassembly, make changes and re-assemble said file, COOL-A. Also you will be able to work in hexadecimal or decimal or binary. A hex dump routine will be back and why not a routine for putting roms together suitably padded etc ready for eprom. Evently Basic2001 will become "cross-console" and will support the atari2600 for instance and "why not" ,I think will make it support the interton and many others, my plan is write in one language then you can generate the code for multiple consoles. Several programmers are currently developing games for the atari2600. by being "cross-console" the idea is to generate more interest than would otherwise be generated by a lesser known console like the interton and Arcadia! I cant wait to burn my own home brews, I personally believe that the arcadia could run some decent games, i imagine the developers hardly had time to get to know the hardware before the crash! In thoery the compiler can be made to generate code for any console that exists by changes made to the Text driver files. It will be available late next month, im currently purchasing some software for my site, so what is up ,is only a "place-holder" enough waffle.... Thanks GsT. 1724 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:06am Subject: Re: Next months updates. slapdash26 "Gavin" wrote: > Evently Basic2001 will become "cross-console" and will support the > atari2600 for instance [...] Just an FYI, but someone has already released a version of BASIC for the 2600, called batariBASIC or something like that. AtariAge should have a lot of activity regarding it if you want to look into it. Anyway, otherwise, exciting stuff by the sound of it. Good luck in your endeavors; I can't wait to see some Arcadia homebrews! -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... [NEW!] VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// 1725 From: "oboissea" Date: Thu Sep 29, 2005 1:15am Subject: Re: Next months updates. oboissea Wow !! Great news! This sounds very interesting I wish I could have, say... 10 lives to accomplish all I would like to do, like developping homebrews for the Arcadia... :-) Thanks to you Gavin for so much efforts ___________ Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 1726 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:50pm Subject: Re: Next months updates. gvnturner > > Just an FYI, but someone has already released a version of BASIC > for the 2600, called batariBASIC or something like that. AtariAge > should have a lot of activity regarding it if you want to look into it. Yes, im on to it, I already have the source code for several batari basic games, and im currently working on making my basic compatiable with it. But it's to early yet for me to make it known to any batari basic users yet, until its fully tested. 1727 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Sep 30, 2005 4:58pm Subject: RAM Development cartridge gvnturner Great news so far , I can confirm that the protype works so far (BUT not tested plugged into the real console yet) I have just successfully programmed the cmos ram chip and then read back the same bytes. It will still require a bit more VB code to send a .BIN file accross to it, I should be able to whip one up based on the rom dumper source. once this protype is tested and if it does work then I will go about making a proper circuit board design. (its a bunch of wires at moment) having said all this ,the whole thing may never work!!!! Time will tell 1728 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Sep 30, 2005 6:11pm Subject: RAM cartridge gvnturner I have the ram-cart plugged into the Arcadia, I programmed: bcta,un '0000'h into the cmos ram, I got a blank white screen like you might expect a couple of times and some garbage coming up another time, so i recorded it in windows media format, its not working yet, nearly all of the time when I power-up the console it looks like there is no rom-cartridge. Both my PC and the ram-cart are plugged in together so I made sure the ram-carts address bus was reset and the parallel port tristated. I dont have any capicators attached, i wonder? 1729 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Oct 3, 2005 2:42am Subject: MEMORY MAP gvnturner I was looking at the arcadia memory map I have as follows Im not sure how this map was made but heres one theory I have (Read on below map) ;General Memory Map-------------------------------------------------- ----- $0000..$0FFF ROM 4096 bytes $1000..$17FF unmapped 2048 bytes $1800..$18CF upper screen 208 bytes $18D0..$18EF user RAM 32 bytes $18F0..$18F7 hardware registers 8 bytes $18F8..$18FB user RAM 4 bytes $18FC..$1908 hardware registers 13 bytes $1909..$197F unmapped 119 bytes $1980..$19BF hardware registers 64 bytes (sprite and UDC bitmaps) $19C0..$19F7 unmapped 56 bytes $19F8..$19FF hardware registers 8 bytes $1A00..$1ACF lower screen or user RAM 208 bytes $1AD0..$1AFF user RAM 48 bytes $1B00..$1FFF unmapped 1280 bytes $2000..$7FFF ROM 24576 bytes $8000..$FFFF not addressable 32768 bytes Thus: . ROM is any amount up to 28K. . 3483 bytes are unmapped. . The character-mapped screen display is 208 (low-res) or 416 (hi-res) bytes. . RAM is 292 (low-res) or 84 (hi-res) bytes. . The bitmapped sprite and UDC definitions are 64 bytes. . Other hardware registers are 29 bytes. totalling 32K, the addressable range of the 2650 CPU. --------------------------------------------------------------------- if you take 416 bytes for the hires screen plus 84 RAM bytes you get a total of 500 ram bytes (shouldn't there be 512) but even if you adjust the amount of unmapped memory to allow for this you get 3471 bytes of unmapped memory which equates to 29297 bytes of mapped memory (rom and ram) see what im getting at, due to the binary nature of address lines you would expect to see a nice even amounts like; 1024, 2048, 8192 or 8192+1024=9216 or 8192+2048+256+32 It appears to me that the arcadia circuit board has two 1k ram chips strapped in it (only half available ) total 512 bytes and the UVI has some RAM also. (possibly 128 bytes ,some used by the UVI as a scratch pad) My rough Guess would be: total = 638 of system RAM Any body got any thoughts to challenge my idea? 1730 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Oct 3, 2005 11:10am Subject: Tunix Circuit board part number 2300289 I noticed today that although my Circuit diagram from the Service manual shows the CPU's Flag pin as not connected, when I checked this against my console, I noticed that it is infact connected to the /VRST pin of the 2636UVI and also connected to the 2621 (Video timing signal). They Have done this by running a green jumper wire. indicating that setting the flag register (PSU bit6) would serve some function? "interesting" also a place on the edge of the circuit board for some kind of DB connector (only two pins available (1 is ground)) (perhaps an analog joystick port? or light phaser port?) Also big soldier splatters just sitting there. but dont worry it has two quality control passed stickers (one QC sticker had a small ball of soldier stuck on it (???) 1731 From: "minuous1" Date: Sun Nov 6, 2005 11:33 pm Subject: 5 more MPT-03 manual scans available There are 5 more MPT-03 manual scans available at EA2001 Central: 3D Bowling Alien Invader Basketball Missile War Nibblemen http://users.bigpond.com/james.jacobs/ 1732 From: "mrjones060" Date: Thu Nov 24, 2005 8:17 pm Subject: Intervision 2001 pics http://www.pelikonepeijoonit.net/ratemyrare/ Part of my Intervision 2001 collection there mrjones 1733 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Nov 25, 2005 1:05 pm Subject: Next emulator update The emulator2001 will finally be updated again within the next two weeks. I delayed while some major re-orginising was done on the source. The next update will be a good one, Including Pixel accurate object to background collision detection. (meaning finally a lot more games can actually be played now ,invaders, breakaway, etc) Still more hot-keys added ,(running out of keyboard!) True raster line based emulation based in this order: 1. 2622 clock 2. 2637 UVI 3. 2650 CPU even has the broken background colours seen in spiders or turtles etc. Press 5 key to see how many Frames Per Second the emulator is running at and how many Clock Periods are being used be the CPU per second (Later I will include how many clock periods spent accessing RAM etc.) Press F4 to break/Continue CPU execution. Load and Save Game snap-shot feature added. Im just about to completely re-code the CPU so that each instruction (or byte) has a programmable result meaing that the CPU could be reprogrammed (or made into say a Z80 or 6502 without me having to rewrite and debug thousands of lines of source code for each CPU!!!!) It is my believe that this would result in a much more accurate (and 100%less chance of bugs) emulation as the CPU instruction set would be able to be proof-read and even corrected by any user. Also im speculating that the emulation will run faster by this method. And of course since having a reprogrammable CPU without a reprogrammable Graphics Chip would be useless I will do that one also, (and hardware registers) The compiler im writing "basic2001" is also designed so that it can be completely re-programmed to suit any target 8 bit CPU computer or game console. Say for instance a Commodore64 or a Spectrum ,or an ATARI console or a IntertonVC. The first release of Basic2001 is coming very soon with some example source code! Thanks GsT. 1734 From: "Gavin" Date: Tue Dec 13, 2005 6:57 pm Subject: Emulator update Emulator2001 has been uploaded and it's not to far off finished. Download at: http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz 1735 From: "thb_77" Date: Mon Dec 26, 2005 1:49 pm Subject: Just picked up a Tempest MPT-03 Console I just brought home a tempest mpt-03 console from a local pawn shop with a plastic bag full of games. I collect retro consoles and computers but for me this is the holy grail of retro consoles. This was the first console I ever owned. My original console suffered a tragic death and none of the parts were kept so when I saw this today at the pawn shop I knew I had to take it home. I pretty much got all the games I used to own too except for Nibbleman and Boxing. :( Anyways we tested the console in the store and it didnt work, red light went on indicating power but we couldnt tune it in. I asked the clerk to knock some dollars off the price and I would buy it anyway. I need to get my hands on a 9volt 750mA AC adapter to test it further. I have a feeling the 9volt 1500mA AC adapter they provided could be the cause of the problems. Any ideas? List of cartridges I have none including boxes or joystick inserts: Alien Invader x2 Black Jack & Poker x2 Capture-(Othello) x2 Auto Race Combat Sea Battle Basketball Space Mission Bowling (3 Dimensions) Robot Killer Break Away American Football Space Squadron Golf Soccer Baseball Video Chess I would really like to get my hands on Nibbleman and Boxing if possible are either of these games considered rare? Also are games compatible and do they fit the cartridge slot across all models and clones or are they unique to each system? Regards, George 1736 From: "oboissea" Date: Mon Dec 26, 2005 7:55 pm Subject: Re: Just picked up a Tempest MPT-03 Console Hi George, > I just brought home a tempest mpt-03 console from a local pawn shop > with a plastic bag full of games. I collect retro consoles and > computers but for me this is the holy grail of retro consoles. Excellent find ! We would be very interested at www.old-computers.com by pictures of your system, so we could include it into the online museum ? Could you do this for us ? > Also are games compatible and do they fit the cartridge slot across > all models and clones or are they unique to each system? To make it simple, only MPT-03 style systems are "cartridge compatible" with your Tempest. Of course, all clones are "software compatible" anyway. Regards __________ Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 1737 From: George T Date: Mon Dec 26, 2005 8:42 pm Subject: Re: Just picked up a Tempest MPT-03 Console Hi Olivier, Thanks for your reply. I will upload photos of it to my profile on old-computers.com as soon as possible. Regards, George On 12/26/05, *oboissea* > wrote: Hi George, > I just brought home a tempest mpt-03 console from a local pawn shop > with a plastic bag full of games. I collect retro consoles and > computers but for me this is the holy grail of retro consoles. Excellent find ! We would be very interested at www.old-computers.com by pictures of your system, so we could include it into the online museum ? Could you do this for us ? > Also are games compatible and do they fit the cartridge slot across > all models and clones or are they unique to each system? To make it simple, only MPT-03 style systems are "cartridge compatible" with your Tempest. Of course, all clones are "software compatible" anyway. Regards __________ Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 1738 From: "minuous1" Date: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:14 pm Subject: Re: Just picked up a Tempest MPT-03 Console > I need to get my hands on a 9volt 750mA AC adapter to test it further. > I have a feeling the 9volt 1500mA AC adapter they provided could be > the cause of the problems. Any ideas? Yes, a 9volt 750mA AC adapter is needed, luckily they are quite common. > Capture-(Othello) x2 > Auto Race > Sea Battle > Robot Killer > American Football > Space Squadron > Golf > Soccer > Baseball > Video Chess The 10 listed above all need scans of their manuals... :-) > I would really like to get my hands on Nibbleman and Boxing if > possible are either of these games considered rare? I have 1 Nibblemen and 2 Devilmans, all for MPT-03...not Boxing though... > Also are games compatible and do they fit the cartridge slot across > all models and clones or are they unique to each system? Any MPT-03 system (eg. Robdajet, Poppy, Rowtron, etc.). James Jacobs Amigan Software 1739 From: George T Date: Mon Dec 26, 2005 10:56 pm Subject: Re: Just picked up a Tempest MPT-03 Console None of the games came with their covers, manuals or inserts :( 1740 From: "minuous1" Date: Fri Jan 20, 2006 9:52 pm Subject: EA2001 crossword & wordsearch I stumbled across these Arcadia-themed puzzles: http://www.gooddealgames.com/crossword/cross_Arcadia_2001.html http://www.gooddealgames.com/wordsearch/ws_Arcadia_2001.html Enjoy... 1741 From: "minuous1" Date: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:13 pm Subject: AmiArcadia 1.0 emulator released Amigan Software are proud to annouce the release of AmiArcadia 1.0, the official Amiga port of Emulator 2001. It has been written by James Jacobs and Gavin Turner of Amigan Software. AmigaOS 3.5+ is required. It is available from http://users.bigpond.com/james.jacobs/ 1742 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Apr 9, 2006 5:35 pm Subject: Emulator2001 finally updated!!!! Anybody ready to play arcadia games on your PC? Emulator2001 (WIN-32) has been updated and you can play all the games! http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz I have also emulated the VC-4000 (not fully completed)as included in Emulator2001, Dont worry about trying to locate VC-4000 ROMs, they are packed into the emulator executable ready to play! VC-4000 ROMs seem to be as hard to find as rocking horse shit! 1743 From: yandra@... Date: Mon Apr 10, 2006 5:07 pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 383 Wow, great work! Thanks for all your efforts. I am a grafuk designer. If you would like to make a nice frontend in the look of the arcadia let me know. i will support the grafix. John 1744 From: "oboissea" Date: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:04 am Subject: Re: Emulator2001 finally updated!!!! > Emulator2001 (WIN-32) has been updated and you can play all the > games! Wow, excellent work as asual ! Arcadia 2001 games are now really playable and enjoyable > I have also emulated the VC-4000 (not fully completed)as included in > Emulator2001, > Dont worry about trying to locate VC-4000 ROMs, they are packed into > the emulator executable ready to play! I tried to find it on your website, but had no chance... You say it's bundled into the Emulator2001, but couldn't find how to test it... :-((( I want to test that too !! ______ Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 1745 From: gavin turner Date: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:36 pm Subject: Re: Emulator2001 finally updated!!!! >Wow, excellent work as asual ! >Arcadia 2001 games are now really playable and >enjoyable Im still tweaking it, and you should continue to download the latest version, I want this emulator to be the best emulator of its kind ever made! (The emulator to end all emulators!) >> Dont worry about trying to locate VC-4000 ROMs, they are packed into >> the emulator executable ready to play! >I tried to find it on your website, but had no chance... >You say it's bundled into the Emulator2001, but couldn't find how to test it... It wont be very noticable yet,click on the second icon from left, (and click on VC-4000) now when you click on the left icon (folder with arrow) you will see the VC-4000 ROMs, 19 roms are included as of 12 april 06 >:-((( >I want to test that too !! Emulation of the VC-4000 is incomplete at this stage, but I all have the information to finish it! and wont stop until it is 100% perfect, (im a very determined perfectionist) Another person has offered to lend me the rest of the VC-4000 roms that I need to make the complete set. A full featured "basic" compiler for VC-4000/Arcadia homebrews is in the pipe-line (and showing extreme promise) ,but on hold till emulator2001 is improved. ______ >>Olivier Boisseau >>www.old-computers.com Thanks GST. 1746 From: gavin turner Date: Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:42 pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 383 Thanks for positive feed back It would be great news if you would make some graphics for an arcadia frontend , if you help make one I will be able to feature it at my site or even include it in the main download. I am personally a programmer and no good at graphic design. Thanks Gavin Turner. GSTsoftware. */yandra@web.de/* wrote: Wow, great work! Thanks for all your efforts. I am a grafuk designer. If you would like to make a nice frontend in the look of the arcadia let me know. i will support the grafix. John ------------------------------------------------------------------------ *Von:* arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com *Gesendet:* 09.04.06 14:18:56 *An:* arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com *Betreff:* [arcadia2001consoles] Digest Number 383 There is 1 message in this issue. Topics in this digest: 1. Emulator2001 finally updated!!!! From: "Gavin" _______________________________________________________________! _________ ________________________________________________________________________ Message: 1 Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2006 07:35:09 -0000 From: "Gavin" Subject: Emulator2001 finally updated!!!! Anybody ready to play arcadia games on your PC? Emulator2001 (WIN-32) has been updated and you can play all the games! http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz I have also emulated the VC-4000 (not fully completed)as included in Emulator2001, Dont worry about trying to locate VC-4000 ROMs, they are packed into the emulator executable ready to play! VC-4000 ROMs seem to be as hard to find as rocking horse shit! 1747 From: "oboissea" Date: Thu Apr 13, 2006 7:02 pm Subject: Re: Emulator2001 finally updated!!!! > Im still tweaking it, and you should continue to download the latest version, I want this emulator to be the best emulator of its kind ever made! (The emulator to end all emulators!) :-)) I must say that I re-discovered the "Arcadia" games thanks to your emulator. There are now very playable and made me change totally my views on this system !! Jump Bug is very playable Hobo is fantastic (for the time) etc.. Really, if someone here is reading us, give this excellent emulator a try. > Emulation of the VC-4000 is incomplete at this stage, but I all have the information to finish it! and wont stop until it is 100% perfect, (im a very determined perfectionist) Very promising so far ! I can't wait to (finally) play those games I read you want your emulator to become the best one, here are some popular requests : - the colours seems a bit "faded", especially the yellow one which is hard to see on white background - a command line option, would make your emulator very popular among gamers using generic frontend (such as Mamewah, ArcadeOS, AtomicFE, etc.). I personally have an Arcade Cabinet, and would LOVE to play those games with it. Ex : 2001.exe hobo -fullscreen - making a way to disable the scanline effect would be good too. I love it when playing on my PC. But when you want to play on a TV or on an Arcade Cabinet, it sucks... Last thing, I tried to donwload the ZIP on your site yesterday, and when decrunching it, I always had an error... Best regards _______ Olivier Boisseau www.old-computers.com 1748 From: gavin turner Date: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:11 pm Subject: Re: Emulator2001 finally updated!!!! */oboissea /* wrote: :-)) >I must say that I re-discovered the "Arcadia" games >thanks to your >emulator. There are now very playable and made me >change totally my >views on this system !! >Jump Bug is very playable >Hobo is fantastic (for the time) >etc.. I have the real console and must say that the controllers suck compared to playing it with a PC keyboard. >I read you want your emulator to become the best one, >here are some >popular requests : >- the colours seems a bit "faded", especially the >yellow one which is >hard to see on white background I agree, especially on a LCD display compared to CRT, The colours will be "brighter" in the next few days, Yellow is hard to see on white. A configuration ICON needs to be added for adjusting colours and effects etc to personal preference. >- a command line option, would make your emulator very >popular among >gamers using generic frontend (such as Mamewah, >ArcadeOS, AtomicFE, >etc.). I personally have an Arcade Cabinet, and would >LOVE to play >those games with it. Ex : 2001.exe hobo -fullscreen >- making a way to disable the scanline effect would be >good too. I >love it when playing on my PC. But when you want to >play on a TV or >on >an Arcade Cabinet, it sucks... Good sound advice, I will add a commandline for removing scanline effect. 23.2.06 new features; command line functions added for frontends -FL (start in fullscreen) -RE romtitle.bin (to boot a ROM) -NM (no exiting message) -RB3 run built-in game three. Click on "RUN" then; example: "C:\Program Files\Emulator2001\2001.exe" -nt-nm-rb23 or "C:\Program Files\Emulator2001\2001.exe" -fl -nm -re boxing.bin NOTE: YOU MUST REMOVE ANY SPACE CHARACTERS IN FILE NAME UNLESS ROM NAME IS ENCLOSED IN BRACKETS "C:\Program Files\Emulator2001\2001.exe" -fl-nm-re "alien invaders.bin" possibly this needs a little modifing to make it more standard. Many updates will be made to emulator2001 in the next few months, there is so much source code to work on. Thanks GavinSTurner 1749 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Apr 13, 2006 11:45 pm Subject: Emulator2001 Now when in full screen view there is no scan line effect, this fixes problem for tv sets and arcade cabinets. 1750 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Fri Apr 14, 2006 12:50 pm Subject: WinArcadia under development I have made a version of AmiArcadia for Windows, attached...now you don't have to worry about setting up an Amiga emulator... It is not yet complete, it doesn't have sound, fullscreen, joystick, some menus not yet implemented, no double buffering so sprites flicker, graphics not optimized, etc. But it does already do full BIN/SNP/REA support ie. macro playback, 1x-4x scaling, etc. Enjoy... Regards, James 1751 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006 3:16 am Subject: 2650 DOS and Basic Bit of the topic but... This was interesting http://users.bigpond.net.au/emmerik/ACADEMIC.html This guy CO-wrote 2650-DOS and also I found mention that there was a BASIC interpreter avaliable at some stage for the 2650. 1752 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:55 pm Subject: Emulator2001 - Update To anybody that has the old version: http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz There will be a new vastly improved update in the next few weeks that will feature a full GUI making it much easier to use. You will be able to select console/computer , ROM , ASM , snap shot, or gameplay movie file similar to the standard windows file selector dialog box. Movie files will be very small (only a matter of bytes per minute!) Snap shots are extremely small, Now only 680 bytes!!!! (less than 1K) I bet nobody can figure out how I compressed it so small! Thanks Gavin Turner 1753 From: "minuous1" Date: Fri Apr 21, 2006 4:34 pm Subject: WinArcadia 1.21 released Amigan Software are proud to announce the release of WinArcadia 1.21, the Windows equivalent of AmiArcadia. Available from http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/arcadia/ 1754 From: "marcelrahn" Date: Sun May 7, 2006 11:43 pm Subject: Are Arcadia2001 NTSC/Schmidt TVG 2000 PAL Roms code free and compatible? I know there some Arcadia2001 Multicards outthere, somewhere..but i didnt know if there compare to my Schmidt TVG 2000 Pal Console? Some Consoles like the Sega Master System play all formats of roms..is this the same fact with the arcadia roms? I am from Germany and we have allways PAL/NTSC Problems! Mostly with all Consoles..speed problems..50HZ Games are slower and we have often no full frame pictures and pressed sprites and polygon objects! Since i knew that fact i play no pal Games anymore that dont support full speed 60HZ Version of Games! My favorite Console in the Moment is the Sega Dreamcast because there are many NTSC Emulators like Nester (nes emu), Colem (colecovision emu), Atari 800XL Emu and many more! The Performance of the Emus iam using are support always nearly 100% of NTSC Speed! I was about 12 Years old when my parents bought me a Schmidt TVG 2000! All my friends had a Atari 2600 Console to that time...i dont care because the Console had some realy good games like Jungler, Cat Trax and Tanks a lot..other people i knew to that time fell ashamed that they own only a "Schmidt TVG 2000" and not a Atari2600....and tell knowbody that they own a TVG2000! M.W. 1755 From: gavin turner Date: Mon May 8, 2006 9:13 pm Subject: Re: Are Arcadia2001 NTSC/Schmidt TVG 2000 PAL Roms code free and compatible? I would speculate to say that the NTSC games would run on a PAL setup ok, with the noticable diference in frame rate, one game that might not like it could be soccer or chess might scroll at a different speed on start up, horse race is one game that has the picture scrolled lower than normal, (Vertical offset is different from game to game) 1756 From: yandra@... Date: Tue May 9, 2006 4:23 pm Subject: Re: Digest Number 390 Hi Marcel, i cant help you with your issue but i just want to share the nosatlgia of our childhood. i have been about the same age when i got my schimd tvg as my birthday gift. i originaly wanted the telefever but unfortunetly it wasnt anymore around. so i got satisfied with my tvg. i did some atempts to push some vcs cartridges in it but failed ;-) Well my favorites where and still are cat trax and jump bug i am collecting the cartridges now and hope to get them all. John. 1759 From: "Gavin" Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 8:58 am Subject: This group is offically dead! This group is being closed due to cob webs growing over the sever! 1760 From: "Charles Morgan" Date: Tue Jun 27, 2006 2:02 pm Subject: Re: This group is offically dead! That would be kind of a silly thing to do since it would only have to be re-opened again, or something like it would have to be created. (Pending that there isn't something already that I haven't seen). Not to mention that a new version of the DP Guide is being worked on. Probably if it was to be closed all of the files and info would have to be backed up somewhere (possibly whatever site replaced it) for future perusal and retrieval. #1760 From: "Charles Morgan" Date: Mon Jun 26, 2006 9:02 pm Subject: Re: This group is offically dead! > This group is being closed due to cob webs growing over the sever! That would be kind of a silly thing to do since it would only have to be re-opened again, or something like it would have to be created. (Pending that there isn't something already that I haven't seen). Not to mention that a new version of the DP Guide is being worked on. Probably if it was to be closed all of the files and info would have to be backed up somewhere (possibly whatever site replaced it) for future pursual and retrieval. #1761 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:19 am Subject: Re: This group is offically dead! >> This group is being closed due to cob webs growing over the sever! > >That would be kind of a silly thing to do since [...] Um, I'm pretty sure that it was a joke regarding that hardly anyone says anything over here.... Adam #1762 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:20 pm Subject: NEW RELEASE OF THE ARCADIA 2001 EMULATOR !!!! There is a new FASTER - BETTER kick arse beta version of the Arcadia emulator at: http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz/ New name - "Arcadia2001" Faster execution Standalone executable program Open GL and D3D-X7 modes No longer bloatware - Download size around 100K bytes EMULATOR2001 HAS A NEW NAME NEW TITLE NAME: WINarcadia2001, MACarcadia2001, LNXarcadia2001.exe ONLY THE WINDOWS VERSION IS READY ENJOY. Gavin Turner #1763 From: Jouni.nygard@... Date: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:43 pm Subject: Heitit sitten meilillä ? Olen poissa toimistosta alkaen 01.07.2006 ja palaan vasta 01.08.2006. Olen paikalla sitten taas joskus ,nähdään sitten jos ei sokeiksi tulla mrjones #1764 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:14 pm Subject: New Guy Hi all, New guy here. Quick background: Have an arcadia 2001, natch, and a few carts hidden away. Been there for about 5 years. Why only 5? I purchased this unit that long ago, used. Why do so? I had one like 30 years ago; loved it, lost it. So 5 years ago I reverted to childhood and bought the used one. OK, so what? I want to get into development. Where do I start? I have down loaded almost every file here that pertains to the tech stuff (my forte') and compiling/decompiling (I will get to reading it this weekend, promise!). I have access to much hardware that I would normally think would be required for game development. I can design hardware and/or program in many languages (remember, I have not yet looked at what your compilers here use as souce code). Also, although I doubt I have any carts you don't have, I'll be happy to make them available for dumping if there are any you would like. I won't get my system up until this weekend, and I am hoping like heck it still works; if it doesn't I guess I'll have to fix it (parts source?) Don't want to hog things up here, so I'll shut up now. If someone could just make sure I'm headed down the right path...maybe give me a 3 or 4 step start??? Thanks Charlie #1765 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:19 pm Subject: New Guy again Hi, again. Sorry. I wanted to edit my previous, but can't find the "edit" button. Is there one? And the edit I would have, well....edited to: I have downloaded a couple of emulators, including one called "2001" and "Winarcadia". Neither one runs on my XP. Any ideas? Thanks Charlie #1766 From: gavin turner Date: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:58 am Subject: Re: New Guy again Have you tried these emulators: http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz/Arcadia2001.html http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz/emulator2001.html WINArcadia2001 It runs on open GL Emulator2001 runs on Direct X 7 or higher Both are completely different so if one doesnt work try the other, If both fail let me know what kind of error you get, and what sort of video hardware you are running. There will be a BASIC compiler for the arcadia when I complete it ,so far I have made a simple game with it, to much work needed orginising web site at moment to get straight into it at this stage. It will include a "Paint" type program for the arcadia format and graphics made with it can be imported into the code. Using the compiler will eliminate the learning curb needed to program this beast, there are easy commands raster effects and joystick control of sprites. Thanks GST. #1767 From: charlie@... Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:41 am Subject: RE: New Guy again Yes, I have tried both, on three different machines (2 NT and 1 2K). None of them run. Emulator2001 gives an error dialog titled "Microsoft Visual C++ Runtime Library" ....."abnormal program termination". Arcadia2001 apparently has been updated to WinArcadia2001. It runs with a open window whose titlebar is rapidly flashing, but does nothing else. There are not menu items, etc, to attempt to access a file, or any other possible functions that I can see. The docs do give a few options on running it, but I don't understand there uses. Two obvious questions: How to I tell Winarcadia to attempt to run a ROM dump, and where do I get compatible ROM dumps to run. (I see a couple of games there, but they appear to be EXE files...are they something I need to use with these emulators, or are they for something else entirely?) On another subject, it is amazing to see your statement about a BASIC compiler for the Arcadia. I myself had given some thought to that same subject just recently. More correctly, I was going to use an IDE type enviroment (like VB6 or C++), cause they have that great syntax checkng and different colors for different statement types, etc. "All" I have to do is change the compiler to be 2650 compatible....Haven't actually looked into that yet, so I really don't know how much work "All" will really be. I am also considering a Windows based Arcadia sprite compiler, that would be useful for those who program in assembler, but if your BASIC will take care of that, maybe it's not needed. (Hope this doesn't run on too long...but I have a number of possibilities here....so just stop reading when you get disgusted:) 1. Where can I get blank cartridge boards into which I can put my PROMS? 2. What PROM type do I need? I have full access to a PROM emulator 3. I have PCB creation capabilities (but it's easier/cheaper to buy the blank cart boards, if they are available) 4. Full electronic/hardware design capabilities. but where to put that effort: A. a 2650 emulator hardware so you can run and single-step your Arcadia under your control from Windows B. an Arcadia debugger that lets you create, download, and run a game from windows, etc? Or is there not enough demand for this by us "amateur" developers given the cost and effort it would take to duplicate C. Full access to C++, VB and Windows programers for Windows based "control consoles" to interface with the Arcadia (but what would you want to control?) D. etc, etc??? Guess the basic question here is, now that I am in my second childhood, where should I put my efforts and what should I be making? Charlie #1768 From: charlie@... Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:50 am Subject: RE: New Guy again #2 PS. Just tried the PacMan game, gives "error 136". Also, I have download every possible document on the Arcadia I can find, and purchased evey one I see. Having "cut my teeth" in the 8-bit world, I don't see this as being too difficult, just challenging to learn the Arcadia's idiosyncrasies. And probably the biggest question, now that I have had time to mull over all the tediousness I wrote you in the first email....what kind of game would Arcadia guys want? Can we really make it the next PSP? (BWAAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAHAAAA!) Charlie #1769 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:58 am Subject: Scary OK, this is scary. I answered a guestion in my EMail, then came here. Now I see the same question, and the answer! I though choosing "Individual Email" in my profile would dis-allow this. How do I separate the two? Thanks Charlie #1770 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:45 am Subject: Heres your problem Both Winarcadia2001 and Emulator2001 are not compatiable with windows NT so they definitly wont work on those computers Emulator2001 will run on 95/98/ME/2000/xp Winarcadia2001 will run on 98/ME/2000/XP you reguire Direct-X 7 or higher for emulator2001 and Winarcadia2001 is currently starting in openGL mode at the moment, try running it on winXP it should be OK. #1771 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:46 am Subject: Re: Scary > OK, this is scary. I answered a guestion in my EMail, then came here. > Now I see the same question, and the answer! I though > choosing "Individual Email" in my profile would dis-allow this. How do > I separate the two? They ARE separate, sort of. The web page is an ARCHIVE of the emails. If you choose to receive "Individual Emails", then you receive each post via mail, whether they were mailed to Yahoo Groups, or posted via the web. If you choose "No Emails", you have to come to the web to read and post. If you choose "Digests", then the day's emails are collected into one email and sent to you, but the archive doesn't contain the actual outgoing digest emails (though incoming ones often contain them in their entirety, grr -- more people need to learn to edit!). -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// #1772 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 7:53 am Subject: Opening bins (roms) You press F10 to see an open file window for Winarcadia2001 the roms are at http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz/downloads/archives/index.php I suspect your graphics drivers need updating #1773 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 8:06 am Subject: BASIC Im working on it very hard at the moment to bring it up to a usable standard. Remember they are all in the process of being updated over the next few weeks The language wont require advanced technical knowledge of the console, (the learning is all ready built into the language) There will be a media program to compliment the compiler for creating sprites and game level backgrounds or game splash screens the compiler linker puts the media into the games binary file. Things like the joystick / player movement routines will be already written for you instead of trying to take on the task of working it out in assembler #1774 From: charlie@... Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:18 am Subject: RE: Heres your problem Ok, that's a start. I'll look into DirectX-7 for XP. Thanks Charlie #1775 From: charlie@... Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:19 am Subject: RE: Scary Excellent, Thanks. It's "No Emails" for me. Charlie #1776 From: charlie@... Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:20 am Subject: RE: BASIC Looking forward to it. Put me on your Beta test list. Charlie #1777 From: charlie@... Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:19 am Subject: RE: Opening bins (roms) You are almost certainly right. I'll check F10 tonight. Thanks again Charlie #1778 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 3:25 pm Subject: WinArcadia, ROMS, and F10 Thanks!!! Using F10 got me to the dialog box, I opened a dl'ed bin, and saw the opening screen. Next step, read the instructions to find the joystick emulation keys. I'll get back to you later. Thanks again. Charlie #1779 From: gavin turner Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:43 pm Subject: Re: WinArcadia, ROMS, and F10 See the problem wasnt a bigg-e The joysticks arent yet programmed into Winarcadia2001,(I only started that version about a week ago) Emulator2001 does have the consoles paddles emulated, Winarcadia2001 will have the same keyboard layout for the paddles, but some of the function keys have been changed; for example press- Control C to turn off collision detection (cheat) or Control D to turn off sprite demultiplexing, this was done to make the entire keyboard available for a keyboard mapper routine. Im working frantically on Lightning basic to bring to up to a userable level, with a collection of sample programs and games , I would personally like to make an alpine ski game for the arcadia, I think that it would be a cool game for that machine. Thanks And remember that the software at my site is mostly beta at this time. #1780 From: gavin turner Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 5:58 pm Subject: RE: BASIC Here is what I thought of for some of the commands last night. Nice and easy to read, the IDE will have highlighted syntax etc. once you have written a game you will be able to select a target machine most likely one with a Z80 , 6502 , or 2650 cpu user libs will take care of differences between consoles, in other words a kind of universal retro compiler eventually good for C64 for example or INTERTON-VC 4000. Oh and there will be a powerful range of basic if....then constructs and bitwise operators so you can give your source a C look and feel. Look out at my site for the user manual in a few weeks, Dont expect to much from the site design since im no good at making websites, just a place to get the software from at this stage, Hopefully one day there will be a big user base helping to develop move libs for other consoles, Enjoy you fun! // Small sample program arcadia 2001 // /Commands that modify screen registers set bitmap mode set text mode set hi resolution set lo resolution set vertical scroll 248 set horizontal scroll 0 set screen white /Action Commands cls sync sync 255 /IO read joysticks /movable objects move sprite x 10,10 move sprite y 10,10 move sprite 1,10,10 move sprite 1,10,10,flags /Sound set sound off set sound on set sound frequency 10 set noise on set noise off set sound volume 15 #loop set screen blue set screen magenta set screen green gosub a sub goto loop /Just an empty subroutine example #a sub return rom data 10,20,33,23,4,34 #1781 From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:03 pm Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Temporary_files/target.bin Uploaded by : gvnturner > Description : LB example You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary_files/target.b\ in To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files Regards, gvnturner #1782 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:11 pm Subject: try this out go to the files section/ under temporary files... download: target.bin you can move your character (stick figure really) left right and diagonally, hard to do with the arcadia since paddle directions are multiplexed and shows some moving sprites on a multi-colored backed ground, NOTE: you will need Winarcadia2001.exe/Emulator2001.exe for this demo since other emulators dont display the background color correctly. The background was "captured" from alien invaders ,just to show the media utility works. You could use the media program for designing a splash screen for your games and each level and they are automatically inserted into the final pure machine code product, now try and do that with ease when writting machine code games on paper. It will be possible to expand LB if you like, maybe add an old ADSR sound routine like the C64 would be possible. #1783 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:19 pm Subject: heres a screen shot take a look at the photos section ,there is a new folder: Homebrews with a picy in it enjoy. #1784 From: "minuous2" Date: Thu Jul 27, 2006 10:33 pm Subject: Re: New Guy again, etc. > I have downloaded a couple of emulators, including one called "2001" > and "Winarcadia". Neither one runs on my XP. Any ideas? Was it WinArcadia or WinArcadia2001, both are quite different? WinArcadia should run fine under all versions of Windows from 95 onwards. "WinArcadia2001" doesn't seem to work, I just get a hard crash. > I want to get into development. Where do I start? I have down loaded almost every file here that pertains to the tech stuff (my forte') and compiling/decompiling (I will get to reading it this weekend, promise!). I have access to much hardware that I would normally think would be required for game development. I can design hardware and/or program in many languages (remember, I have not yet looked at what your compilers here use as souce code). Look at EA2001 Central, everything you need is there: http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/arcadia/ > Also, although I doubt I have any carts you don't have, I'll be happy to make them available for dumping if there are any you would like. Super Bug? > NOTE: you will need Winarcadia2001.exe/Emulator2001.exe for this > demo since other emulators dont display the background color correctly. They don't? WinArcadia/AmiArcadia 1.4a do... #1785 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:30 am Subject: Re: New Guy again, etc. >> NOTE: you will need Winarcadia2001.exe/Emulator2001.exe for this >> demo since other emulators dont display the background color >> correctly. > > They don't? WinArcadia/AmiArcadia 1.4a do... Set high res mode then set the display registers to show only first 13 rows and there you go, the other 13 rows disappear and you can see the grey window behind. Thanks GST. #1786 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 5:53 am Subject: compiler update Today I put the source code and binary for the homebrew shown in the screen shot into the WINarcadia.zip file just to make it easy to try out while downloading updates. As I progress with the compiler I will include source code and compiled ROMs demonstrating the new working commands. I try and update at least weekly if not faster. Once complete it will include plenty of demos and you will be amazed at how easy it will be to use with free media tools. Enjoy homebrewing soon... #1787 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 6:16 am Subject: about runtime error Im guessing from that error message that its possible a system file is missing, the compilers that where used to make the emulators have a massive user base and its unusual to run into problems. To obtain the Microsoft Libraries Update: Go to the following Microsoft Website: http://www.microsoft.com/windows98/downloads/contents/WURecommended/S_W UFeatured/Libraries/Default.asp #1788 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:04 am Subject: WinArcadia Joysticks Well, yes...I found that out the hard way. I finally got it running on one of the three XP machines I own; it happens to be the latest one..I bet that has a lot to do with it finally working. I can use the Fkeys to start and reset the game, and watch it run until the player dies, but I can control anything. Hey, maybe the joysticks aren't programmed yet!! PS also no sound. Looking good so far. Charlie #1789 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:08 am Subject: BASIC I'll keep a look out for it. I know I have your URL here someplace. Charlie #1790 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:16 am Subject: Re: New Guy again, etc It was "WinArcadia2001", and 2001.exe which I assume is the "2001 Emulator"...neither one worked properly. I'll check for WinArcadia, as you suggest. Ummm..do the jousticks work? :) Yeh, that's the site I had found before,l and promptly lost it. Thanks Charlie #1791 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Jul 28, 2006 2:06 pm Subject: New Guy and WinArcadia Yay, looks good. Had a heck of a time figuring out the keyboard, though. Probably would help if I had the instructions to the games, too! :) Does some strange stuff to the sound, sometimes. Now, if I only could use the PC joystick?? Seriously, thanks. I can now actually know if what I thought I programmed is what I see. Thanks again ------------------------------- That site at deadwood was one of the two I lost. I distinctly remember one site that had for sale empty cartridge PC boards, boards with a socket pre-installed, etc. I'll be doing some serious searching for it this weekend. In the meantime, any ideas? Charlie #1792 From: "minuous2" Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:49 am Subject: Re: New Guy and WinArcadia > Probably would help if I had the instructions to the games, too! :) All available game manuals are at EA2001 Central. There are also playing guides for most games in the EA2001 Gaming Guide (http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/gg/). Between the 80 of us in this group we would have the manuals to all the games. Unfortunately not many people have scanned and uploaded any manuals, therefore there are a lot of manuals (23) which are not available. If anyone could upload a few manuals, I'm sure it would be hugely appreciated by the retrogaming community. >Ummm..do the jousticks work? :) Up to 2 joysticks are supported. > Set high res mode then set the display registers to show only first 13 rows and there you go, the other 13 rows disappear and you can see the grey window behind. Oh, sorry, you are right. That is quite an odd program :-) Since no games use that mode I wasn't sure what the correct behaviour would be? Just to show the background colour (and sprites of course) in the bottom half? Or is the upper half 'mirrored' to the lower half? #1793 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:38 am Subject: LB As you can see the syntax of LB will be nice and easy to read or understand. No if...then constructs yet, (no enough hours today to paste the code in and debug) /Valid commands for LB - Lightning basic by Gavin Turner /This is the working command set as of today / - also emulator controls updated - #label /remark text /Init routines cls /Commands for modifing display registers set text mode set bitmap mode set hi resolution set lo resolution set vertical scroll 255 set horizontal scroll 7 set screen color white /Sound set sound volume 7 set sound off set sound on set sound pitch 127 set noise on set noise off /Branching and loops repeat forever repeat until example>255 while example<255 wend goto label gosub label return /Commands to syncro with display sync row_number sync #1795 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Jul 29, 2006 5:41 am Subject: Take a look at the new photos take a look in the new temporary pics folder They show that all emulators for the arcadia 2001 differ in the way they handle the DMA and SENSE pin Which one is correct? Mess isn't because some games have the bottom color at the top. Win/Amiarcadia does not show the lower area of turtle,jumpbug,the- end,hobo so I cannot compare that one. ??? #1796 From: "minuous2" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 2:31 am Subject: Re: Take a look at the new photos > take a look in the new temporary pics folder Aargh, looks like Boxing is not emulated perfectly by Ami/WinArcadia :-( Are you sure that when using hires mode in 13 row mode the upper half is mirrored to the lower half? As a reading of the UVI manual seems to suggest to me that it would fill the lower half with the background colour... By the way SMALL.BIN etc. begin with an illegal opcode ($B6)!? Thus it doesn't run on any of the emulators... #1797 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:41 am Subject: Re: Take a look at the new photos > Aargh, looks like Boxing is not emulated perfectly by > Ami/WinArcadia :-( > Are you sure that when using hires mode in 13 row mode the upper half > is mirrored to the lower half? As a reading of the UVI manual seems to > suggest to me that it would fill the lower half with the background > colour... I never suggested that the top would be mirrored to the bottom, you can see from boxing which is the only title to use this mode that it is not :-) > By the way SMALL.BIN etc. begin with an illegal opcode ($B6)!? Thus Correct $B6 then $b5 That is correct. > doesn't run on any of the emulators... Download the latest version at my site, unzip and open the folder, then drag the sync_example.BIN file onto Arcadia2001.exe and your away and laughing. Its a restricted trial version binary . Cheers :-) #1798 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:44 am Subject: try this Open sync_example.bin with a hex editor and you get nothing but garbage. #1799 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 4:59 am Subject: Re: Take a look at the new photos > I never suggested that the top would be mirrored to the bottom, you > can see from boxing which is the only title to use this mode that it > is not :-) From looking at the screenshot you posted (with the horizontal lines), I got the impression that that was what your version was doing. >> By the way SMALL.BIN etc. begin with an illegal opcode ($B6)!? Thus > > Correct $B6 then $b5 > > That is correct. But why do this? It means they're not really valid 2650 programs and can't run in a real Arcadia or most emulators. #1800 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:14 am Subject: Re: Take a look at the new photos > From looking at the screenshot you posted (with the horizontal > lines), I got > the impression that that was what your version was doing. nuh that was a demo of the sync command eg:"sync 23" wait for row 23 >>> By the way SMALL.BIN etc. begin with an illegal opcode ($B6)!? >> >> Correct $B6 then $b5 >> >> That is correct. > > But why do this? It means they're not really valid 2650 programs > and can't run in a real Arcadia or most emulators. They are arcadia ROM's and will work on the real machine, I dont care if they dont work on other emulators, or in fact if nobody ever purchases the registered version :-) those are just the rules. LB Trial version - encryted LB full - Not encryted - for registered users - LB could potentially generate target binaries for any number of 80's consoles / computers (hopefully at some stage I can get some photo's of LB working on the real machines) Cheers. #1801 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 6:27 am Subject: I dont see why not Well take a look at BATARI BASIC - I havent seen anything so badly put together and it has tonnes of users. Looks like it was written by a real beginner programmer #1802 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 8:22 am Subject: Re: New Guy and WinArcadia Thanks, I'll check it out...I learned CatTrax pretty good; it was my first game (of course) lo those many years ago. I'll try to dig out my system this weekend..no guarantee though. Any stuff I have that's needed/missing/wanted here will of course be available. Thanks Charlie #1803 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:05 pm Subject: un-explored teritory History has proven that all those old CPU's can and do execute undefined opcodes without any problems. Take a look at the Z-80 / 6502 therefore it is logical to assume that the 2650 can execute $b5/$b6 and therefore it is INCORRECT BEHAVIOUR for an emulator to "fall over" when coming across them. :-) I still believe that there are many undiscovered facts on the arcadia2001, Can it be pushed beyond the purpose it was built for. Take a look at games for the less powerful Interton-VC the programmers where brilliant, (I think kids wrote some of the Arcadia titles) They repositioned sprites on the fly ,RE:circus The VC is the machine im really interested in, Way more powerful than the arcadia in some areas, Take the sprites for example, they are bigger and there are three times more sprites than the arcadia, RE:invaders - all done with sprites If I was designing the Arcadia back then I would have put both the 2637 and the 2636 on the same board, (I was done by a NZ kitronix company) just OR gate the video signal together. Then I would have put the VC programmers and the dude how wrote tennis on the payrole (probably the only good arcadia programmer out there at the time) ;-) #1804 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:20 pm Subject: 2636 vs 2637 the 2636 was way more advanced than the 2637 in the sprite department, in even has its on on-board RAM (The VC-4000 has no RAM chip) The 2636 can display DOZENS of sprites on the screen without stupid multiplexing. The 2636 has bigger sprites The 2636 can detect any single RASTER row position The 2636 has hardware score lines The 2636 has On-chip RAM YAH interton-VC4000 :-) #1805 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:27 pm Subject: Im curious Im wondering why Win/amiarcadia does not display the lower part of the Arcadia2001's display Its shown on the orginal Arcadia box and I can see it when I play the real console, in fact the top row of ami/winarcadia is would actually fall outside of the TV sets display, and there should be three more (I think) rows at the bottom? :-) #1806 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 9:36 pm Subject: Re: un-explored teritory > History has proven that all those old CPU's can and do execute > undefined opcodes without any problems. > > Take a look at the Z-80 / 6502 > > therefore it is logical to assume that the 2650 can execute $b5/$b6 > and therefore it is INCORRECT BEHAVIOUR for an emulator to "fall > over" when coming across them. I'm working on the next version of WinArcadia (tentatively V1.5), I've now changed the behaviour so that it ignores undefined opcodes. > I still believe that there are many undiscovered facts on the > arcadia2001, Can it be pushed beyond the purpose it was built for. > > Take a look at games for the less powerful Interton-VC the > programmers where brilliant, (I think kids wrote some of the Arcadia > titles) > They repositioned sprites on the fly ,RE:circus > > The VC is the machine im really interested in, Way more powerful > than the arcadia in some areas, Take the sprites for example, they > are bigger and there are three times more sprites than the arcadia, > RE:invaders - all done with sprites Well, I can't get Emulator 2001 to work correctly with the Interton (screen gets drawn but no keys seem to work - BTW there are no instructions (eg. keyboard layout) for the Interton emulation) (nor the Jupiter Ace (ERROR 3 printed all the way down the screen)), (Arcadia and VZ-200 seem OK though), and don't have any specs for the 2636, so I can't really comment in detail, but I would be surprised if this was the case. Hmm, I must disagree with you there (about the games), there are quite a few good Arcadia games IMHO... #1807 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:19 pm Subject: Re: un-explored teritory > Well, I can't get Emulator 2001 to work correctly with the > Interton (screen > gets drawn but no keys seem to work - BTW there are no > instructions (eg. Interton VC is simply incomplete at this stage > keyboard layout) for the Interton emulation) (nor the Jupiter Ace > (ERROR 3 > printed all the way down the screen)), (Arcadia and VZ-200 seem OK > though), Im going to DISCONTINUE Emulator2001 and the ACE/Spec etc, The new version is replacing it, The compiler I was using for emulator2001 was way to restrictive to take it any further. The VZ and VC-4000 will become seperate downloads. > and don't have any specs for the 2636, so I can't really comment > in detail, > but I would be surprised if this was the case. I have the specs on the 2636 its way superior in the sprite department than the 2637, its just a fact. the 2636 could potentially display 64 sprites at the same time without multiplexing, It eats the 2637 in the sprite department The Arcadia is a walk in the park to emulate compared to the 2636 - A potentially Large number of sprites have to be re-assed every single scan line, because the same sprite could in many different positions in one single screen frame. The computation overhead is massive, its an extremely tough machine to emulate. > Hmm, I must disagree with you there (about the games), there are > quite a few good Arcadia games IMHO... Within minutes of playing Invaders I had an unusally large list of bugs. #1808 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Jul 30, 2006 11:31 pm Subject: LB and 2636 YES, LB will work with the VC-4000 also, I have started but (still) not completed a DEV kit for it, I have got 3 VC-4000's in cupboard with several arcadia2001's I have relised that I was going about the RAM cartridge the wrong way, and have re-designed it. Once I get my software up to speed I will return to the RAM cart to test my code. #1809 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:23 am Subject: Re: Im curious > Within minutes of playing Invaders I had an unusally large list of bugs. Well, they are not *all* good :-) heheheh... > Im wondering why Win/amiarcadia does not display the lower part of the > Arcadia2001's display Fixed in WinArcadia 1.5 (just released). (AmiArcadia 1.5 will follow in the next few days.) Also new for 1.5: CPU/UVI monitor, "stretch to fit?" option, better handling of unsupported opcodes, GUI bug fixes, etc. > Its shown on the orginal Arcadia box and I can see it when I play the > real console, in fact the top row of ami/winarcadia is would actually > fall outside of the TV sets display, and there should be three more (I > think) rows at the bottom? I imagine it would depend on the magnification setting of the television. > I have the specs on the 2636 its way superior in the sprite > department than the 2637, its just a fact. Any chance of uploading them? #1810 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Aug 1, 2006 5:16 pm Subject: New file All: I have uploaded a new file called SpriteMakerEA. It allows you to graphically design upto 4 sprites for the Arcadia 2001 using Windows. It creates both VACS compatable source code for the sprite design and an executable binary that can be used to test your design. I used WinArcadia 1.4 as my emulator for testing the binary file. I don't know how other emulators will respond; nor have I yet tested using a PROM and the console itself (I'm not quite ready to create my own proms yet). This is a quick-and-dirty utility; feedback on any bugs will be appreciated. I hope that this offering will be accepted in the spirit in which it is given; if there is a problem, feel free to delete it as desired. Thanks for all your help so far. Charlie #1811 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Aug 1, 2006 5:51 pm Subject: General questions All: A couple of operational questions, if you please: On the Files page, there is a "gas guage" at the bottom right. It says "94% of 20MB"..obviously some relation to file/data storage. What does it represent? Who is the moderator/owner or head-honcho of this site? Who makes the final decisions on what is accepted and what is not? This site has a lot of info, but not all that is available. For example, I don't see the ROM binaries of the 2001 games here (at least, I couldn't find it). Why not? Would it be allowed or prohibited? Many of the messages I find here, dated some 2 years ago, ask technical questions or request some piece of information. Many questions don't appear to have answers, and there does not appear to be much recent activity towards projects, information, etc. Forgive the question, but has the interest in this site, the 2001, learning/programming, etc decreased to the point of almost non- activity. Have I come here 2 years too late? Or is it just that not too many people are interested in the 2001? To make a long question short, where is that "killer-game" that was going to make everyone gasp in amazement? As an aside, I dug out my 2001 from the mothballs (I have not yet fired it up). I note that I have three manuals not listed in the ZIP file. I can scan them an upload them if there is interest. Thanks for your support. Charlie #1812 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Aug 1, 2006 7:17 pm Subject: Re: General questions > I have uploaded a new file called SpriteMakerEA. It allows you to > graphically design upto 4 sprites for the Arcadia 2001 using > Windows. It creates both VACS compatable source code for the sprite > design and an executable binary that can be used to test your design. Great, now there are three people actively coding EA2001-related stuff instead of just two. > On the Files page, there is a "gas guage" at the bottom right. It > says "94% of 20MB"..obviously some relation to file/data storage. > What does it represent? Yahoo only allows 20Mb of files per eGroup. But there is plenty of space at my site (EA2001 Central), I'm willing to host any EA2001-related materials. > Who is the moderator/owner or head-honcho of this site? Who makes > the final decisions on what is accepted and what is not? I think it is currently Gavin Turner? > This site has a lot of info, but not all that is available. For > example, I don't see the ROM binaries of the 2001 games here (at > least, I couldn't find it). Why not? Would it be allowed or > prohibited? There are a few binaries there; Macross for example (in "Temporary Files"). IIRC the ROM Pack used to be there too but I deleted it to free up space. You can still get it from my site though of course. The ROMs are all abandonware. Getting a cease-and-desist from Andrew Choi or whoever would be a good thing actually, we have been trying to track down the EA2001 game programmers for years :-) > Many of the messages I find here, dated some 2 years ago, ask > technical questions or request some piece of information. Many > questions don't appear to have answers, and there does not appear to > be much recent activity towards projects, information, etc. Forgive > the question, but has the interest in this site, the 2001, > learning/programming, etc decreased to the point of almost non- > activity. Have I come here 2 years too late? Or is it just that > not too many people are interested in the 2001? To make a long > question short, where is that "killer-game" that was going to make > everyone gasp in amazement? Most of the unanswered questions are unanswered because the answer to them is unknown. Regarding the killer game, Super Bug hasn't been dumped (Stefan Piasecki has it but refuses to dump it). Or, if you are referring to homebrews, there is Frogger, it's not bad IMHO :-) if I do say so myself. Tetris and JTron aren't bad either. There has been a lot of emulator development in the past two years or so, we now have up to 7 emulators, depending on how they are counted. > As an aside, I dug out my 2001 from the mothballs (I have not yet > fired it up). I note that I have three manuals not listed in the > ZIP file. I can scan them an upload them if there is interest. Yes, absolutely! You can email them to me at jrj76 AT optusnet DOT com DOT au (Yahoo tends to mangle email addresses that are typed in literally), and I will host them at EA2001 Central for you. #1813 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 3:58 am Subject: Re: General questions >> I have uploaded a new file called SpriteMakerEA. It allows you to >> graphically design upto 4 sprites for the Arcadia 2001 using >> Windows. It creates both VACS compatable source code for the >> sprite design and an executable binary that can be used to test your >> design. > > Great, now there are three people actively coding EA2001-related > stuff instead of just two. I think that is brillant ;GST. Ps. im using winXP and go a message saying missing library component ,but not big deal a google search on the .ocx file name revealed a link to download it. #1814 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 4:49 am Subject: VC-4000 invaders I posted a screen shot of invaders for the VC-4000 it show 19 sprites on the screen at the same time admittedly it uses hardware mirrored sprites (The VC can draw the same sprite in three different positions - No B*llsh*t 3 positions) The VC has an amazing potential in the sprite area, while falling way short in the sound (lack of volume control) and background, (no character ROM) Its possible to write a routine for large numbers of sprites to be draw on the fly, upto 4 in any line at once, but unlimited vertically , I think I could write some interesting libraries for LB to make use of this. The small amount of RAM would of course be the limiting factor, GST ;-) #1815 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 4:55 am Subject: more blah blah VC The second shot i uploaded shows 26 moving sprites on the screen, Its just also interesting considering the resource staved nature of the VC- 4000 #1816 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 5:06 am Subject: VC the screen shot of shooting gallery shows 16 sprites on screen (there is no flicker with the VC-4000) And 4 different backgound colors ,you can detect any single raster row with the VC instead of every 8 rows with the Arcadia The VC's sprite bitmaps are larger 10x8 instead of 8x8 Cheers :-) #1817 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 5:18 am Subject: Arcadia again Makes me wonder, can the Arcadia re-position sprites on the fly? You know the way the 2637 and TV work, the sprites must be drawn as the raster beam moves down not at the end of the TV frame. So the 2637 must draw any sprite that appears on the current scan line. Once drawn you move it further down the display to the next point. That would be one of the most interesting things I would like to try on a DEV cart, has anybody heard of this not working on similar 80's hardware I wonder Its not the sort of thing that you would read in the manufacturers manual. #1818 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 5:20 am Subject: Re: General questions OK, I'll update the upload later this evening to include the ocx file. Thanks Charlie #1819 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 5:38 am Subject: Re: Arcadia again It would SEEM obvious that you could write some code to store, in the proper memory, the sprite's position at the top of the screen, wait until you are halfway down the screen by checking scan lines, then have the code store some different sprite positions into the proper memory. If the video chip is monitoring/checking the sprite position memory actively, the change should be picked up and the "new" sprite appear at the second position. With a high enough frame rate, and given the persistance of the TV, you might see them both. Question is, when does the video chip update itself with the desired screen output? If it's only at the start of a frame (or the end of the previous one), then obviously the change of position of the "new" sprite won't be recognized by the chip and the sprite will not be visible. So, what kicks the video chip? That is, how does it know WHEN to access the memory and then WHEN to draw the sprite? The CPU at the proper time? Some hardware wiring via a clock or counter? Some setting in the video chip itself? Or does it just compare the current screen location and the sprite's desired location (as stored in memory) and decide to draw it? This may require a visit to the schematic. Just a thought Charlie #1820 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 5:49 am Subject: Re: General questions "Great, now there are three people actively coding EA2001-related stuff instead of just two." 1. Thanks (for the implied compliment) 2. You're welcome (for my contribution) 3. Then what are all the others doing? "...I'm willing to host any EA2001-related materials." Please feel free to either link your site to my file, or even just copy it over there. "You can email them to me at...I will host them at EA2001 Central for you." Will do. I checked the manual lists and saw a number of them that you already have....until I opened them and saw they were for some other, presumably related, system. Rather than try to separate them, I'll just scan everything and send it all to you, maybe this weekend. "if you are referring to homebrews, there is Frogger...Tetris and JTron aren't bad either." Can you point me to them? And do they have source code? ---------------------- General question: I have seen a number of references to MAME, both good and bad. However, someplace I believe I saw a reference to MAME being a debugger. Is this so? Is MAME usuable with the 2001? Is it a software or hardware debugger? Can I actually set breakpoints and view memory? etc. Anybody point me in the right direction for that, also? (Yeh, I know how to use google, but I get so darn many hits!) Thanks Charlie #1821 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 6:20 am Subject: Re: General questions > 3. Then what are all the others doing? Not much I'm afraid :-( > "...I'm willing to host any EA2001-related materials." > > Please feel free to either link your site to my file, or even just > copy it over there. Thanks, will do. I really like your program. > "You can email them to me at...I will host them at EA2001 Central for > you." > > Will do. I checked the manual lists and saw a number of them that > you already have....until I opened them and saw they were for some > other, presumably related, system. Rather than try to separate them, > I'll just scan everything and send it all to you, maybe this weekend. Great, can't wait. > "if you are referring to homebrews, there is Frogger...Tetris and > JTron aren't bad either." > Can you point me to them? And do they have source code? They're in the ROM Pack at EA2001 Central. Both of mine (Frogger and JTron) both have full source code available (in the Disassembly Pack - however in this case it is the original source rather than an annotated disassembly of course). As a policy I make all my software open-source wherever possible. Tetris doesn't have the original source available (you could ask PeT for that), but there's of course an auto-annotated disassembly in the Autodisassembly Pack. > General question: I have seen a number of references to MAME, both > good and bad. However, someplace I believe I saw a reference to MAME > being a debugger. Is this so? Is MAME usuable with the 2001? Is it > a software or hardware debugger? Can I actually set breakpoints and > view memory? etc. Anybody point me in the right direction for that, > also? (Yeh, I know how to use google, but I get so darn many hits!) I think you mean MESS, not MAME. (MAME is for coin-ops). MESS is an emulator. It includes an integrated debugger. It's all software, no hardware is required. MESS is usable with the Arcadia (and Interton apparently) but the mainline version has pretty poor compatibility, you need to use patched versions of many games, I wouldn't recommend it. MESS V2 has better compatibility, you would be better to use that than mainline MESS. Yes, you can set breakpoints and view memory in MESS. WinArcadia has a realtime CPU/UVI monitor, and AmiArcadia can trace program flow, display CPU/UVI/UDCs/sprites/RAM/screen, and has breakpoints and watchpoints, but neither has (yet) a full interactive debugger; this will appear in V2.0. Whenever I get around to doing that :-) > Makes me wonder, can the Arcadia re-position sprites on the fly? Apparently not. To quote from the UVI manual: "The vertical and horizontal coordinates of the four objects and vertical offset will be accessed at DMA 15. During the screen space, the 2650 should not access the UVI as the internal data bus is busy servicing the display." #1822 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 12:38 pm Subject: Update SpriteMakerEA #2 I have uploaded a new zip file that contains the necessary OCX files. The zip file should now contain 4 files. Please download this newer file to replace the previous one. Thanks for your support. Charlie #1823 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Aug 2, 2006 7:21 pm Subject: RE: Sprite maker Works fine now with the .ocx's included #1824 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 3:58 am Subject: Re: Sprite maker Thanks, and thanks for pointing out my omission. Now that I have had time to think about this some more, maybe I should change the program a bit to allow 4 individual sprite colors, instead of 1 color for all sprites. That way, what you see in the SpriteMakerEA window will be what actually appears on the 2001 screen. Comment? And can anyone try the binary out on a real machine..I'm not quite finished with my setup here and have not been able to check it myself yet. Also, what's next?? I'm open to ideas. Thanks Charlie #1825 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 5:28 am Subject: Re: Sprite maker > Now that I have had time to think about this some more, maybe I > should > change the program a bit to allow 4 individual sprite colors, > instead > of 1 color for all sprites. That way, what you see in the > SpriteMakerEA window will be what actually appears on the 2001 > screen. Comment? The Arcadia has a pixel aspect ratio of 2:1 perhaps you could allow for that but I guess its no big deal. #1826 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 5:36 am Subject: Sprite maker I did some simple tests and yes I did see the sprites on screen, [though my emulator - not real machine] I can do some more tests later, great work so far. #1827 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 6:28 am Subject: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia I did some tests of some of the orginal Arcadia roms and found that they would access the sprites during DMA 240,241,242,250,251,252,253 etc Some titles like jump bug and funky fish would stick strictly to changing sprite positions only at DMA 253, while Jungler was quite random at times. I will look at this in more detail, It could prove something if the orginal titles could access sprites during normal display time. GsT :-) #1828 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 6:40 am Subject: Sprite multiplexing I just did some more investigating, Even though the manual states that the 2637 should access registers during display time, this clearly is in correct 3d tennis access's sprites during the middle of display time, This can clearly be seen. I added a routine to draw a single blue line across the current row when a sprite position register is changed, try it out, you will find it interesting, some games follow the UVI manual strictly but others do not. #1829 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 6:55 am Subject: more on multplexing I found that gobbler access's sprites right in the middle of display time, while most games follow the manual strictly, This is clearly evidence that the sprites could be drawn twice during one display cycle as you would expect from all the similar hardware of the era. #1830 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 7:05 am Subject: Re: more on multplexing And also in the temporary photos folder a shot of Astro invaders shows that before a game is started the sprites are positioned during screen row 20 [when the manual states you shouldn't] #1831 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 7:11 am Subject: Tennis Has any member here played the orginal 3d tennis game , if so can you tell me if the sprites flicker like funky fish etc. Thanks. GST. #1832 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 7:59 am Subject: Re: Tennis > Has any member here played the orginal 3d tennis game , if so can you > tell me if the sprites flicker like funky fish etc. I did have Space Squadron on my Tempest back in the day and of course it flickers the same as on the emulators, but I didn't have Grand Slam Tennis unfortunately. > I found that gobbler access's sprites right in the middle of display > time, while most games follow the manual strictly, Do you mean Crazy Gobbler or Super Gobbler, they are quite different? > This is clearly evidence that the sprites could be drawn twice during > one display cycle as you would expect from all the similar hardware of > the era. If this was possible then I would assume it would have been done by at least one programmer, rather than using the inferior multiplexing technique. Both Gobbler programs only show 4 sprites in any particular frame, they don't even use multiplexing. All that is really proved is that you can get away with reading/writing the UVI registers at times when you are, strictly speaking, not supposed to. > I added a routine to draw a single blue line across the current row > when a sprite position register is changed, try it out, you will find > it interesting, some games follow the UVI manual strictly but others > do not. I assume you could access the UVI during eg. horizontal retrace at the end of each raster. But if the UVI is only reading the position registers once per frame then the sprites can't be "reused". #1833 From: "han_b77" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 12:59 pm Subject: Re: VC-4000 invaders Hi all, the Vc 4000 has only 4 sprites which can appear at the same time. To get more than 4 you have to change the sprite data and position via horizontal interrupt check. It is impossible to move lower sprites above the last line of the above sprites. Another possibility is to check the vertical blanc interrupt and change then the sprites. This method produces flickering sprites and doesn`t look very good. Han #1834 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 4:03 pm Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia That sort of follows one of the possibilities that I mentiond, that of only accessing the data during the Vertical Blanking. This is normally the time when it is done on this genre of consoles. But whether the DMA time is also the blanking time or not is immaterial, the point is it can only be done at that specific time. How about this......you monitor the scan line (WaitForScan), when the scan is at the bottom of the frame, you toggle a memory location between 0 and 1. Then, if it's 0, you store DesiredLocation1 data into the sprite x and y position data. If it's 1, you store DesiredLocatioin2 data. The effect is that you see the sprite in location 1 on one frame, and location 2 on the second frame, then location 1 on the third frame, etc. Hmm....how much flicker would each sprite exhibit? #1835 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 4:05 pm Subject: Re: more on multplexing > I found that gobbler access's sprites right in the middle of display > time, while most games follow the manual strictly, > > This is clearly evidence that the sprites could be drawn twice > during one display cycle as you would expect from all the similar > hardware of the era. Well, I wish I had read this message before I posted the first one. Seems like we both have the same background knowledge! Charlie #1836 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 4:08 pm Subject: Re: VC-4000 invaders > the Vc 4000 has only 4 sprites which can appear at the same time. > To get more than 4 you have to change the sprite data and position > via horizontal interrupt check. It is impossible to move lower sprites > above the last line of the above sprites. Another possibility is to > check the vertical blanc interrupt and change then the sprites. > This method produces flickering sprites and doesn`t look very good. Yet again some similar opinions. So, someone write 2 or three different programs to access the sprites at different times and let us know the result. Charlie #1837 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 4:18 pm Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > That sort of follows one of the possibilities that I mentiond, that of > only accessing the data during the Vertical Blanking. This is > normally the time when it is done on this genre of consoles. But > whether the DMA time is also the blanking time or not is immaterial, > the point is it can only be done at that specific time. How about > this......you monitor the scan line (WaitForScan), when the scan is at > the bottom of the frame, you toggle a memory location between 0 and 1. > Then, if it's 0, you store DesiredLocation1 data into the sprite x and > y position data. If it's 1, you store DesiredLocatioin2 data. The > effect is that you see the sprite in location 1 on one frame, and > location 2 on the second frame, then location 1 on the third frame, > etc. Hmm....how much flicker would each sprite exhibit? Yep, that's exactly how it's achieved. You can use that technique on just about any console, however a *lot* of EA2001 games make use of it. I suspect it's because the "changing positions as the raster draws" technique can't be used to put more sprites onscreen, due to the UVI only checking the positions once per frame. As documented in the manual. For how much flicker, try a game like Space Squadron or Grand Slam Tennis in an emulator (make sure demultiplexing is disabled). >> I will look at this in more detail, It could prove something if the >> orginal titles could access sprites during normal display time. Not really, it doesn't matter much when the program can access the sprites, what matters is how often the UVI reads the sprite position registers. > Yet again some similar opinions. So, someone write 2 or three > different programs to access the sprites at different times and let > us know the result. Sure, such a program could be written but what would it be run on? Running it on an emulator wouldn't prove anything. And the emulators only draw the sprites once per frame anyway. PeT is able to run homebrew code on his Palladium, I don't know if he pays much attention to this egroup anymore though. #1838 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 6:43 pm Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > it's because the "changing positions as the raster draws" technique > can't be > used to put more sprites onscreen, due to the UVI only checking the > positions once per frame. As documented in the manual. Yip it doesnt prove that sprites could be moved as you guys stated, but does definitly prove that the UVI registers can be changed during draw time (there is no way of detecting H-retrace) and examining the source code of games shows that they did not attempt to wait for H- retrace To cut a long story short - The manual says you can only change UVI registers during V-refresh - This is not true becuase many orginal titles change the registers during draw time. Although the sprite position data/sprites are probably stored in a buffer on-chip. #1839 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 3, 2006 6:47 pm Subject: VC The VC clearly way short of the arcadia the sound (no volume control) and no character display for a background. BUT the VC is tops in the sprite department 1. Larger 10 by 8 sprites 2. Sprites scalable to 4 different sizes 3. I have screen shots from orginal titles showing up to 26 sprites on screen at once without flicker. THE END. #1840 From: "han_b77" Date: Fri Aug 4, 2006 12:37 am Subject: Re: VC 26 sprites may be possible on the whole screen, but only 4 in one row can be displayed. The rest of the sprites is displayed belower than these 4 sprites (objects). You can see this in my motocross game. The counter above is made of 4 sprites, the Car below are 4 sprites and the speedmeters are two sprites. The contents of the sprites are written in the same registers of the PVI and changed by Interrupt timing. HAN #1841 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Aug 5, 2006 1:10 pm Subject: Re: General questions > Who is the moderator/owner or head-honcho of this site? Actually, Ward Shrake originally made the group, and he turned the ownership to Stefan Piasecki when he left. He also made me a moderator. > Who makes the final decisions on what is accepted and what is not? For the most part, moderation of this group has been pretty laid back. As long as things pertain to the systems in question, anything goes. If the files area gets too full, we'll have to do something about that, but we're still just close, not worried, I think. On the other hand, if there are sources elsewhere on the web for this info, maybe it's time we did some spring cleaning... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 (leave message) email: slapdash@... || ++================================================================*// #1842 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Sat Aug 5, 2006 11:03 pm Subject: Re: VC At 7:37 AM +0000 8/4/06, han_b77 wrote: > You can see [sprites] in my motocross game. Uh, is there a ROM for this yet? I don't remember seeing any news about your game prior to this post... -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 (leave message) email: slapdash@... || ++================================================================*// #1843 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Aug 6, 2006 9:12 am Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > Sure, such a program could be written but what would it be run on? Oops, I assumed the EA2001 of course. (yes, for the moment, mine is down....I plugged in the wrong wall wart and blew the power supply and the modulator...I've fixed the supply, the mod is on order but won't be here for a week or so) Isn't everything we're doing here intended to get us new, user contributed firmware that we use on our 2001's? I assumed we were all (or at least most) able to program homemade cartridges with our various code tests and examples and try to learn these tricks. Or am I someplace in outer space? #1844 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Aug 6, 2006 9:21 am Subject: Re: General questions "On the other hand, if there are sources elsewhere on the web for this info, maybe it's time we did some spring cleaning..." Let me take an opposing view. We should gather everything we can on the EA2001, to become the premier guru group. Even links to stuff on other site should be available here, and the general plan and organization of this site should be toward teaching the tricks and tecnhiques of EA2001 programming in a structured manner. Right now, I have to look in many areas to get various tidbits of data I need. As I mentioned in a previous post, my EA2001 is down, but when it's alive again, I will be trying to learn how to read paddles and joysticks, and detect sprite collisions, etc...yes, all those thing that I have seen here someplace, but need to pull together to make a "real" application. Of course, all of the above assumes a fanatical interest in the EA2001 itself, as opposed to the multi-capable, free, conveniently configurable, etc, etc, emulator! Charlie #1845 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 6, 2006 5:31 pm Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > Isn't everything we're doing here intended to get us new, user > contributed firmware that we use on our 2001's? I assumed we were > all (or at least most) able to program homemade cartridges with > our various code tests and examples and try to learn these tricks. Yes im heading toward testing my EA coding on the real console, but having said that; there is nothing wrong with emulators they provide every person a chance to play all the EA games, which would otherwise not likely to happen, (I only have around 20 carts) and its some much more convient (and cheaper) than getting real machine out. I plan on personally developing a set of routines for my compiler that makes the process so simple that there is no excuse for anyperson who is motivated not to make an EA game. Anyway emulators strive to be as close to the real console in every detail as humanly possible. GST. #1846 From: "minuous2" Date: Mon Aug 7, 2006 3:40 am Subject: 5 more Emerson manuals available for download They are: Alien Invaders American Football Breakaway Cat Trax Escape These are available in both JPEG and ASCII format from http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/arcadia/ A big thanks to Charlie for scanning these! The manuals list now looks like this: Scanned (25): 3D Bowling, Alien Invader, American Football, Astro Invader, Basketball, Blackjack/Poker, Boxing, Breakaway, Cat Trax, Combat, Dictionary, Doraemon, Dr. Slump, Escape, Funky Fish, Missile War, Nibblemen/Devilman, Parashooter, R2D Tank, Space Attack, Space Mission, Spiders, Super Bug, Tanks a Lot, The End Not available (22): 3D Soccer, Auto Race, Baseball, Battle, Brain Quiz, Capture, Circus, Crazy Gobbler, Golf, Grand Slam Tennis, Hobo, Jump Bug, Jungler, Mobile Soldier Gundam, Monaco Grand Prix, Pleiades, Red Clash, Robot Killer, Route 16, Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Super Gobbler, Turtles/Turpin Text only (9): Crazy Climber, Horse Racing, Monaco Grand Prix, Ocean Battle, Soccer, Space Raiders, Space Squadron, Space Vultures, Star Chess Not applicable (3): Frogger, JTron, Tetris #1847 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Aug 7, 2006 5:00 am Subject: Re: General questions > If the files area gets too full, we'll have to do something > about that, but we're still just close, not worried, I think. On > the other hand, if there are sources elsewhere on the web for this > info, maybe it's time we did some spring cleaning... It is 95% full of 20Mb, which is close, that means only 1Mb free. The most important files are already mirrored at my site. If you want to quickly free up another 4Mb, you could delete these: Temporary_files/2637_tp_reduced.zip - 679K Temporary_files/Scans_of_game_manuals/#? - ~700K Manuals_and_instruction_sheets/#? - ~2Mb Programming_tools/2001.zip - 336K Programming_tools/dasmx130.zip - 246K Programming_tools/vacs124h32.zip - 127K SpriteMakerEA.zip - 182K all mirrored already. #? meaning "all" of course. Many of the smaller files are available there too; I have only included large files in the list above. I can also host the other 15Mb at my site also, if you wanted to completely clear out all files. #1848 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Aug 7, 2006 7:37 am Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia I certainly agree with everything you are saying. However, I tend to use the emulator to verify simple mechanical things like sprite shapes, paddle/joystick operations, etc, simply because it is quick and easy. However, as you know, an emulator is no substitute for the console hardware, especially if some part of your program/game depends upon specific hardware operations. Thus, I use the eprom emulator when I need to run on the console. And that, my friend, is the source of my suprise that not every one is a died-in-the-wool, down-and-dirty, confirmed-and-committed (or maybe SHOULD be committed!), fatally-fanatic EA2001 console owner. On the other hand, maybe I am slightly, (just the slightest bit, mind you) somewhat mildly interested in the EA2001. -------------------- So, when does this fantastic compiler become available? ----------------------- Oh - oh, oh, oh - another thought. Is it maybe feasible to, like, port over an Atari 2600 game to the EA2001? Has anyone tried this? Charlie #1849 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Aug 7, 2006 7:55 am Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > Oh - oh, oh, oh - another thought. Is it maybe feasible to, like, > port over an Atari 2600 game to the EA2001? Has anyone tried this? It would be feasible, as the Arcadia wipes the floor with the underpowered Atari 2600. However the programs would have to be completely rewritten because of the different CPUs (2650 vs. 6507) and graphics/audio hardware. UA Ltd. released Cat Trax, Funky Fish and Pleiades on both the EA2001 and Atari 2600. #1850 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Mon Aug 7, 2006 10:09 am Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > UA Ltd. released Cat Trax, Funky Fish and Pleiades on both the > EA2001 and Atari 2600. For the record, UA never actually released the Atari 2600 versions, at least not in the US. Were they actually released elsewhere? Atari Age got ahold of the ROMs somehow and made reproductions available a couple years back, and I think they're still available. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// #1851 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Aug 7, 2006 5:34 pm Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > For the record, UA never actually released the Atari 2600 versions, > at least not in the US. Were they actually released elsewhere? Cat Trax, Funky Fish and Pleiades Where all forsale in New Zealand, I have the cartridges. "Funky fish" is another bug ridden title for the Arcadia, It has a collision bug in the real game, sometimes you lose two life's at a time instead of one. "Cat trax" or should I say "Pac man" rip-off Im working on the compiler again soon, I have just been busy re- writing the UVI routine for the emulator. My arcadia emulator now has a button to turn on/off graphics filter (pixel smoothing) on the fly, 10 different screen sizes, and some more features im working on. Its faster now and increasing window size now doesn't cause a performance hit. GST. #1852 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Aug 7, 2006 5:46 pm Subject: SuperDimensionFortress Is a good example of a Bad EA title, you cannot shoot the mothership, enermies have ZERO AI ,It was probably a great dissapointment to anyone who payed out the money for the cart orginally. It would be fare to say the first time you play the game you could last for hours without getting shot. Your ship can only move in sharp 90 degree angles???? not like real space is it???? Games like that would have dug a hole for the Arcadia to go down. Does anyone no of any VC-4000 titles that where poorly put together like that. #1853 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Aug 7, 2006 8:41 pm Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > > UA Ltd. released Cat Trax, Funky Fish and Pleiades on both the > > EA2001 and Atari 2600. > > For the record, UA never actually released the Atari 2600 versions, > at least not in the US. Were they actually released elsewhere? Sorry, you are right, the Atari versions were written but not released. > "Cat trax" or should I say "Pac man" rip-off Haha, not just Cat Trax but also Crazy Gobbler, Super Gobbler, Nibblemen and Devilman the Dot Muncher! > [Macross] is a good example of a Bad EA title, you cannot shoot the > mothership, enermies have ZERO AI ,It was probably a great > dissapointment to anyone who payed out the money for the cart orginally. The mothership changes shape, then you can go inside the mothership (2 maze-like screens) and blow it up. > Does anyone no of any VC-4000 titles that where poorly put together like > that. I don't know, there don't seem to be any VC-4000 ROMs available for download to play them. #1854 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Aug 8, 2006 7:26 am Subject: Re: Sprites multiplexing -Arcadia > "However the programs would have to be completely rewritten > because " Yep, and I can live with that. Just wonder if it's worth it. Thanks Charlie #1855 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Tue Aug 8, 2006 2:37 pm Subject: Re: Was Sprites Multiplexing - "Funky Fish" > "Funky fish" is another bug ridden title for the > Arcadia, It has a collision bug in the real game, > sometimes you lose two life's at a time instead I have a real soft spot for "Funky Fish" but that is probably due to the fact that to date "Chris Capener" who programmed it, is the only Arcadia programmer that anyone has tracked down and talked to about its development. I tracked him down in 2002 (he also ported "Jumpman Jr" for the Colecovision (Epyx) + worked for Starpath) and passed on his details to Ward Shrake. I can't work out if the emails back & forward with him were ever posted by Ward here but here are some edited highlights! - He wrote the game under a 3 month contract Quote Chris in an email to Ward 2002. "A former college roommate was related to an officer (president?) of UA. He approached me with the contract offer. I had a development system from Signetics with manuals for the processor and chipset of the console. I did not have contact with any other programmers. It was pretty much learn as you go. I believe that some utility routines and sample code came with the development system." Ward asked and he had no knowledge of the 2600 ports... If anyone (respected in such stuff) wants to try and make conact with him again I can provide (old) email details. #1856 From: "Gavin" Date: Tue Aug 8, 2006 8:31 pm Subject: Re: Was Sprites Multiplexing - "Funky Fish" > "I had a development system from Signetics with > manuals for the processor > and chipset of the console. I did not have contact with any > other programmers. > It was pretty much learn as you go. I believe that some > utility routines and sample code came with the development > system." Speaking of DEV system, Im thinking of changing the proto-type I started so that it works the same as one on the internet for the ATARI2600 I have an empty cartridge and I have extracted the dead EA rom chip, Im going to put the CMOS chip I have alone with a backup 3*1.5v battery pack You place the dev cart into the rom dumper I made and program it, the remove it from the dumper and slot it into a real arcadia2001 (The battery stops loss of data during transfer) Does anyone know of any reason why this wouldnt work before I proceed? I have all the parts Once up and working it would be easy to make LB able to send code straight to the dev cart from binary of text assembler source of compiled LB basic with a click of an icon and instantly create working programs for the real machine. If I can get the dev cart to work perhaps it could become part of the LB package ( Compiler/Emulator/DEV cartridge/Binary file Tools/EA Paint program ). GST. #1857 From: "Gavin" Date: Tue Aug 8, 2006 8:42 pm Subject: DEV cartridge I realise also that there are better ways but not that technical when it comes to electronics The best way would be A cartridge with a USB plug in the top and you plug in and program ,(No need for extinct edge connector from EA), ciruit boards and plastic cartridge cases can be manufactured hear in NZ locally in my city. But I want to start simple and just get it working. #1858 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Aug 8, 2006 9:49 pm Subject: Re: Was Sprites Multiplexing - "Funky Fish" > I have a real soft spot for "Funky Fish" but that is > probably due to the fact that to date "Chris Capener" who > programmed it, is the only Arcadia programmer that anyone > has tracked down and talked to about its development. There's also the Tom Pittman interview (Grand Slam Tennis). > If anyone (respected in such stuff) wants to try and make > conact with him again I can provide (old) email details. It would be good to ask him some more questions, however we should first all agree on a list of questions. #1859 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:40 am Subject: SpriteMakerEA2 All: New upload into the Files section: Updated SpriteMaker program, called SpritemakerEA2, allows individual sprite colors, and a includes built-in Help file. Thanks Charlie #1860 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:44 am Subject: Tutorials Hey, Anyplace here where there are tuts? Or example files of how to use paddles, joysticks, collisions, etc? I don't seem to see anything that is specifically at the beginner level for this stuff. Or is it buried someplace not so obvious? Thanks Charlie #1861 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:53 am Subject: Re: Tutorials The Examples Pack, the Coding Guide and the Disassembly Pack. http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/arcadia/ #1862 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:59 am Subject: Re: Was Sprites Multiplexing - "Funky Fish" The concept seem right, but your syntax has me confused. Some minor clarification, please: 1. "You place the dev cart into the rom dumper I made and program it" A dumper usually is a read device, not a programming device. But since you made it, you could certainly have put in programming capabilities. 2. "...and program it" Depending upon the device, the normally method of programming is to access certain pins and set the PROM into programming mode. In some cases, these pins are a separate set of inputs from the address/data/enable, etc. If so, they have to be brought out to the "outside world". Obviously, if these extra pins are brought out to the same connector as the one intended to plug into the console, the plug will be too big and it won't fit. So you either need to provide a complete second, bigger connector, or....be very careful in your judicious choice of devices. Overall, what you are doing is of course not new; the main difference is you probably made all this stuff yourself (good job!), whereas others of us use the commercial (expensive!) equivalents. In my case, I don't actually have to plug/unplug anything, the binary goes in via RS232 serial and comes out as address/data, so I can actually program-and-play in one operation. (at least, it will as soon as I finish repairing my console!) I am hoping that eventually you will publish all you have done, including spec on the hardware (parts list, schematic, etc). By the way, did you etch your PCB's yourself, or are they purchased? I have found, these days, that most readily available perf/proto boards with .100 pin spacing to be somewhat expensive. Thanks, and keep that pioneering spirit alive! Charlie #1863 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006 6:01 am Subject: Re: Tutorials Yup, got those, and they certainly help. But I want a real tutorial, explaining how and why. Sort of "Arcadia 101". By the way, keep up that site...it's GREAT. Charlie #1864 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Aug 9, 2006 5:26 pm Subject: Re: Was Sprites Multiplexing - "Funky Fish" > The concept seem right, but your syntax has me confused. Some > minor clarification, please: > > 1. "You place the dev cart into the rom dumper I made and program it" > > A dumper usually is a read device, not a programming device. But > since you made it, you could certainly have put in programming > capabilities. Clafication: the design was based on my ROM dumper with an extra parallel port pin for controlling the READ/WRITE pin of the CMOS, Therefore it is now two-way program or download (the later not being needed anymore) > 2. "...and program it" > Depending upon the device, the normally method of programming is > to access certain pins and set the PROM into programming mode. In > some Im using Battery backed-up static CMOS RAM > cases, these pins are a separate set of inputs from the > address/data/enable, etc. If so, they have to be brought out to > the "outside world". Obviously, if these extra pins are brought > out to the same connector as the one intended to plug into the > console, It would obivously require an extra plug or program-mode switch somewhere, looks arent important at this stage. > Overall, what you are doing is of course not new; the main > difference If its already been done then it should work , I saw the plans for an ATARI2600 CMOS cart on the net somewhere > is you probably made all this stuff yourself (good job!), whereas > others of us use the commercial (expensive!) equivalents. EXPENSIVE - $500 dollars here in NZ - or equivilent of 12 New DVD players, forget it! > In my case, I don't actually have to plug/unplug anything, the binary > goes in via RS232 serial and comes out as address/data, so I can > actually program-and-play in one operation. (at least, it will as soon > as I finish repairing my console!) > I am hoping that eventually you will publish all you have done, > including spec on the hardware (parts list, schematic, etc). By the ITs all at "Arcadia Central" > way, did you etch your PCB's yourself, or are they purchased? I have I desoldered a dead ROM chip and reused the old circuit board and cartridge case, just pealed the stickers off. > Thanks, and keep that pioneering spirit alive! I really need this DEV pack for continueing to improve my emulator, there are so many situations that dont happen it the games that I want to test. GST. #1865 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 5:52 am Subject: Re: Was Sprites Multiplexing - "Funky Fish" "Im using Battery backed-up static CMOS RAM" HAH! That's what I was using back in the Nintendo days. Dallas semiconductor made (makes?) a battery backed NV RAM as a single module; the battery is potted to the chip and is thus "built-in" "If its already been done then it should work " Absolutely! Positively! "EXPENSIVE - $500 dollars here in NZ " What the %$%$^&????? It would seem to be cheaper to mail-order from the US and pay for the shipping! Damn! "ITs all at "Arcadia Central"" Hopefully, that is: http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/arcadia/ I'll check for the plans. #1866 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:06 am Subject: Re: Was Sprites Multiplexing - "Funky Fish" Sorry, nothing at Arcadia Central jumps out at me as being "hardware and schematics on how to dump/copy/program Arcadia PROMS for fun and profit" (well, minus the "profit", anyway!). Rather than look through ALL of those available downloads, can you give me a hint? Pretty please! Thanks Charlie PS: Where the heck is the EDIT button? Or is the new RichText editor going to provide that. I would have edited my previous post. #1867 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Aug 10, 2006 6:32 am Subject: Re: Was Sprites Multiplexing - "Funky Fish" #2 Never mind! (shades of Saturday Night Live)..I found it #1868 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Aug 11, 2006 8:43 pm Subject: Re: 2 hi, "charliee1151" never mind schematics, I have all hardware specs and details, just so busy getting software up to date that I just dont have time to get the soldiering iron out yet. I have just put sound into my emulator, What an improvement, 100% quality, I finally got rid of that crackling sound! Also I finally fixed the sprite demultiplexing bug -RE:tennis You can click on an icon to scale the picture inside the window ,or resize the window using CONTROL-[0-9] to ten different sizes I decided to default to a very large clear display instead of the small one of emulator2001. There is still a lot of work to put in, I have some ideas like a debugger window-in-window for testing new code, with various step modes try clicking on the magnifying glass and you can scale the picture back, even enough so sprites cannot appear outside of the display. http://www.GSTsoftware.co.nz #1869 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 13, 2006 10:05 pm Subject: New look for emulator I have posted a pic in the temporary photo's folder it shows the new look of my emulator, All the roms are built into the program, you click on the thumbnail of each game to start them, there will be a light version without roms (150k) for the basic compiler etc. GST. #1870 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Aug 14, 2006 6:14 pm Subject: Hi again I have renamed my emulator "Tunix" to save confusion, And removed emulator2001 from the download page since "Tunix" now replaces it. It emulator2001 code just recompiled and some improvements made to the source code. Some features need a little work ,Its taken the last few weeks to get it functional. get it from here http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz/downloads I would be interested to here any suggestions or feedback. #1872 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Aug 15, 2006 5:13 am Subject: Alive again For anyone who is interested, or maybe just bored with everything else... My arcadia lives again. You will recall that I had mentioned in a previous post that I had stupidly plugged in the wrong wall-wart, and blown my console. But, the arcadia is now operational again. I had to repair the power supply and replace the modulator. Then, I plugged in good-ol' cattrax and away it went. I have sound! I have video! I have color! I can play games....NOT. Whoa! Now what? Turns out I have controller problems, too. Apparently, the controllers don't like being squashed into small places for long periods of time. So, repairing them is next on my list. But the console! The console lives! So, I dug out the eprom emulator, wired it up as a 2764 (won't do 2732's, so I had to kludge the extra pins), and fired up SpriteMakerEA2. I designed some stupid sprite shapes, created the binary, loaded it into the emulator, ran it, and viola! There's my sprites in living color on the screen. From creation to operation in less than 60 seconds; this is great, no more prom burning and unsocketing-resocketing of chips. The next step, after fixing the controllers of course, will be to make a more permanent setup for the emulator. Ah, life is sweet...... ----------------- Hope you all enjoyed this engrossing, poignant, moving story of a boy and his console. Stay tuned next week for....ah, the heck with it! Charlie #1873 From: "Gavin" Date: Wed Aug 16, 2006 5:25 pm Subject: Eprom emulator That sound really interesting, I will have to catch up now with my DEV kit....(he already said before...) I cant wait to see what you can produce in terms of home brew games. Anyway I have been to busy getting the emulator software up to date, I have just starting coding in the monitior/debug routines. I will keep updating that over the next few weeks, snapshots are working now. You can also drag a DASMx .asm file onto the emulator executable to generate a .bin with the same file name automatically. (incomplete) Or while the emulator is running you can open .asm files and run them without a third party assembler. Another feature im working on will enable you to view the ROMs as readable disassembled text and modify the disassembly directly without leaving the emulator. "debug source code on the fly!!" This will take place in an emulated monitor window, that can accept commands or do other monitor "stuff" I also have some incomplete code for a MS-paint for the arcadia that I will patch back in soon. GST. #1874 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Aug 17, 2006 6:57 am Subject: Re: Eprom emulator > I cant wait to see what you can produce in terms of home brew games. Well, I still have a lot to learn about the system. I'm in the process of creating the equates for the 18xx and 19xx memory locations. Much of the stuff in the example files is ok, but somewhat too general. Then, I have to come up with a valid bootup sequence. > Another feature im working on will enable you to view the ROMs as > readable disassembled text and modify the disassembly directly > without leaving the emulator. "debug source code on the fly!!" This sounds interesting. Presumably, you can run the newly modified binary file?? Charlie #1875 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Aug 17, 2006 1:46 pm Subject: Many Postings, Homewbrew and 'Mothership' Wow, there has been a WHOLE bunch of activity in the Arcadia console group! This group has been pretty-much silent for years. Sure, there would be a posting every now and then, but it didn't amount to much. I sold off my Arcadia a couple of years ago (I still have the multicart though). It was fun to play with for a while, but the joystick really just killed it for me. There were actually some fun games for the system (the Pac-man clones, or rip-offs, were pretty good), but also there were some games that were just so BAD (I always thought that the Berzerk clone was frightfully bad, only two robots moved at once-- it was sad). Still, my favorite game was always Jump Bug. When I finally played the game in MAME, I couldn't believe how different the arcade version was from the Arcadia game. I actually think that Arcadia version is better (maybe because I played it first?). I'm surprised to see all of the activity in the emulation and homebrew area. When I was interested in this stuff (around the time that Ward started the group in 2001), there was no one talking about it. I haven't loaded up any of the new emulators, but one of these days I'd like to see what the Frogger game looks like. Since there are so many people that could probably tell me nowadays what I did wrong with my "Mothership" demo that I wrote about five years, I'm curious for an answer. The demo would run fine on an emulator, but about half of the time it came up in the wrong screen mode on an actually machine. This was in 2001 when I created that demo, so I can hardly remember what it did wrong except that the graphic mode was the one that was used for the Othello game (I think). Anyone know that I'm talking about? I can't understand how the programmers from the early eighties remember ANYTHING about when they created their games-- that amazes me. I still post and update in the Astrocade discussion group. I still update the Astrocade website(www.ballyalley.com), but there isn't any homebrew going on for that console. If anyone wants to program for another bizarre, little-know console (compared to the Atari!), then check it out over there! Oh, do the new emulators emulate all of the game properly? In 2001, when last I checked, the emulator worked with most of the games, but there were still quite a few that it had a problem with-- indeed, someone was "fixing" the games so that they worked with the emualtor. Adam Trionfo #1876 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Aug 17, 2006 7:01 pm Subject: Re: Many Postings, Homewbrew and 'Mothership' > Wow, there has been a WHOLE bunch of activity in the Arcadia console > group! > This group has been pretty-much silent for years. Sure, there would be a > posting every now and then, but it didn't amount to much. We still don't have a Super Bug dump though :-( > I'm surprised to see all of the activity in the emulation and homebrew > area. When I was interested in this stuff (around the time that Ward > started the > group in 2001), there was no one talking about it. I haven't loaded up > any of the new emulators, but one of these days I'd like to see what the > Frogger game looks like. You can see a screenshot at http://www.deadwoodinc.net/amigan/gg/ > Since there are so many people that could probably tell me nowadays what I > did wrong with my "Mothership" demo that I wrote about five years, I'm > curious for an answer. The demo would run fine on an emulator, but about > half of the time it came up in the wrong screen mode on an actually > machine. This was in 2001 when I created that demo, so I can hardly > remember what it did wrong except that the graphic mode was the one that > was used for the > Othello game (I think). Anyone know that I'm talking about? I can't > understand how the programmers from the early eighties remember ANYTHING > about when they created their games-- that amazes me. IIRC it was a problem with the bootstrap code. > Oh, do the new emulators emulate all of the game properly? In 2001, when > last I checked, the emulator worked with most of the games, but there were > still quite a few that it had a problem with-- indeed, someone was > "fixing" the games so that they worked with the emualtor. Basically yes. Under WinArcadia, everything runs and is fully playable, a few games have minor graphic artifacts due to slight timing differences. Rather than trying to work around broken MESS by patching binaries, it was decided to work on creating an accurate emulator. Regards James Jacobs #1877 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Aug 18, 2006 2:59 pm Subject: Help Ok, guys, having a little trouble here: ---------------------------------------- un equ 3 BackGroundColor equ 19F9h White equ 000b Yellow equ 001b Cyan equ 010b Green equ 011b Magenta equ 100b Red equ 101b Blue equ 110b Black equ 111b org 0000H ppsl $02 lodi,r0 Black stra,r0 BackGroundColor EndLoop: bctr,un EndLoop end -------------------------------------- Can anyone guess what color the screen will be when this simple program runs? If you said Black, the answer is ....maybe. On the Windows emulator, the screen is black, on the real console it is white. In fact, it appears that every color in the equates section is in reverse order between the emulator and the console. That is, yellow on one is blue on the other, magenta switches with green, etc. But, when I run a rom dump, like Cattrax, both systems have matching colors. Obviously, there is something I am missing here. Any ideas. Charlie #1878 From: gavin turner Date: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:48 pm Subject: Re: Many Postings, Homewbrew and 'Mothership' > Oh, do the new emulators emulate all of the game properly? In 2001, > when last I checked, the emulator worked with most of the games, but > there were still quite a few that it had a problem with-- indeed, > someone was "fixing" the games so that they worked with the emualtor. You will need to use my emulator: Tunix 2001 at; http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz it is currently the most accurate emulator becauase the timing is spot on, proof of this can be seen when you run games like bowling. #1879 From: gavin turner Date: Fri Aug 18, 2006 6:51 pm Subject: Re: Help EaSY bud, the flag pin is inverting the colors; BIT-6 of PSU is the flag pin try and change that, good luck. #1880 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 6:33 am Subject: Re: Help I surely will, thanks. #1881 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 7:25 am Subject: Re: Help #2 Ok, here's what I've discovered. If I change the FLAG bit, on the real console, nothing changes. This makes sense, I think, as the schematic shows that the FLAG pin is not connected to anything (like the video stuff). So, the colors are still the same "reversed" sequence; 0 = Black, 7 = white. I would suppose that, since this is the operation of the real console, it would be setting the standard, so, Black really is 0 and White really is 7. If I toggle this flag on the emulator, the colors do reverse! So, I can now make the emulator match the console. This is good, and I thank you for that. But why is it that way? Is the emulator in error; will the colors always be reversed? Well, maybe yes, maybe no, ...because the CatTrax cartridge on the console and the CatTrax binary file that the emulator uses both give the proper colors. So, either the emulator's binary file data is actually different than the cartridge data (I've not checked this yet), or there is some other mechanism that is capable of knowing when to flip colors and when not to! (And, that, of course, I find hard to believe). Or, most likely, does the cartridge code always include the flip, which the console ignores, but the emulator needs so that it matches the console? Which means, of course, it now becomes a mandatory entry in all howebrew code. And, in which case I would ask, "Why was the emulator coded that way? Why would it make use of the Flag bit when the console apparently does not?" Any thoughts, or secrets? Thanks Charlie #1882 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 5:49 pm Subject: New Sprite Maker All: I have uploaded a new sprite maker program, SpriteMakerEA3. This version of the program corrects for the discrepancy between the emulator colors and the console colors. That is, both the emulator and the console now display the same, correct colors. Anyone who has downloaded either of the previous programs should delete them and use this newer one. I would appreciate it if anyone with a console could try this out and make sure the colors are correct. #1883 From: Peter Trauner Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 9:37 pm Subject: Re: Help #2 > Ok, here's what I've discovered. If I change the FLAG bit, on the > real console, nothing changes. This makes sense, I think, as the > schematic shows that the FLAG pin is not connected to anything (like > the video stuff). So, the colors are still the same "reversed" > sequence; 0 = Black, 7 = white. I would suppose that, since this is > the operation of the real console, it would be setting the standard, > so, Black really is 0 and White really is 7. > > If I toggle this flag on the emulator, the colors do reverse! So, I > can now make the emulator match the console. This is good, and I > thank you for that. But why is it that way? Is the emulator in > error; will the colors always be reversed? Well, maybe yes, maybe > no, ...because the CatTrax cartridge on the console and the CatTrax > binary file that the emulator uses both give the proper colors. So, > either the emulator's binary file data is actually different than > the cartridge data (I've not checked this yet), or there is some > other mechanism that is capable of knowing when to flip colors and > when not to! (And, that, of course, I find hard to believe). Or, > most likely, does the cartridge code always include the flip, which > the console ignores, but the emulator needs so that it matches the > console? Which means, of course, it now becomes a mandatory entry > in all howebrew code. And, in which case I would ask, "Why was the > emulator coded that way? Why would it make use of the Flag bit when > the console apparently does not?" > > Any thoughts, or secrets? As far as I know the consoles differ in the usage of the flag pin. I have a Palladium VCG (PAL, non autocentering sticks, early 2112 ram version), which uses the flag pin to inverse (binary) the colors. And I saw an Arcadia schematic where this pin is not used. What exact type of console are you using? Best Regards, PeT #1884 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:26 pm Subject: Re: Help #3 > schematic shows that the FLAG pin is not connected to anything (like This is not shown in the schematic, > in which case I would ask, "Why was the > emulator coded that way? Why would it make use of the Flag bit > when the console apparently does not?" This is required of the emulators to make the games display correctly; [omitting the use of flag pin to invert colors would not make the emulator better.] some games that use inverted color 3d- bowling pleiades tennis If these games where played on certain console variants the inverted color would be missing. The trick is watch your bootstrap code, clear the flag pin regardless if you dont want inverted colors, it might not invert the colors on your console, but will on other variants. The flag pin is controlled through bit-6 of the PSU (program status word) SEE ALSO; SPSU in the 2650 cpu manual #1885 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:38 pm Subject: help booting I recon you should take a look at some of the disassembled arcadia roms, no tricks or hard stuff. They mostly set up PSU & PSL registers then use an auto-decrementing loop to zero(erase) the register area of memory and clearing the screen at the same time. Interupts are normally disabled, but you will find the console has the interupt pin wired to ground. If an interupt could happen it appears that it would branch the cpu to address 3 in zero page, that is why all the games have an unconditional return instruction at location 3. #1886 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:08 am Subject: Re: Many Postings, Homewbrew and 'Mothership' > Since there are so many people that could probably tell me > nowadays what I > did wrong with my "Mothership" demo that I wrote about five years, > I'm curious for an answer. The demo would run fine on an emulator, > but about half of the time it came up in the wrong screen mode on an > actually machine. I havent tried your mothership demo yet, but I just tried your User defined graphic demo and disassembled it, then found that you forgot to set the screens vertical scroll register, (6396) its XOR'ed so 255 is 0 and so on, you need 255-17 = 238 for example you need to wipe all the registers , Im guessing your mother ship demo isnt "zeroing" all of the used registers, RAM could contain some random value then. #1887 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:16 am Subject: Mother-ship Just tried the demo, no problems with Tunix2001, it comes up the same as the screen shot in the zip. #1888 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:08 am Subject: Re: help booting > disassembled arcadia roms... They mostly set up PSU & PSL registers > then... Yes, it seems that many of them do that. But a couple of thoughts.. The interrupt is an active low input. As such, it it tied high (5V) so that no interrupt can occur. When an interrupt IS used, the external interrupting device has to provide the interrupt address; that is then used with the CPU's interrupt vector to determine the actual memory location to which the CPU must branch. So, why is that unusual code in the ROMS, given that the interrupt pin is tied off AND there is no external interrupt address being provided? My guess is that it's a debug thing, for use when the cartridges were being developed using an hardware CPU emulator/debugger. This then WOULD be consistant with the Address 3 operation. Of course, this is only my opinion based on the analysis of the hardware, schematics, etc. Thanks for your help. #1889 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:14 am Subject: Re: Mother-ship Checked it out on my console...Looks the same as the emulator. Of course, with the washed out colors in my system, the cyan looks light purple and the red is brown...! (Looks like the green drive is set to high, but I'm not taking my system apart AGAIN!) Charlie #1890 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:32 am Subject: RE: Many Postings, Homewbrew and 'Mothership' > you need to wipe all the registers , Im guessing your mother ship demo > isnt "zeroing" all of the used registers, RAM could contain some random > value then. That must be it then. I don't remember doing that. Thanks. #1891 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 7:31 am Subject: RE: Mother-ship > Just tried the demo, no problems with Tunix2001, it comes up the same as > the screen shot in the zip. Interesting. Have you tried it several times? It didn't do it EVERY time. #1892 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:21 pm Subject: Re: help booting > The interrupt is an active low input. As such, it it tied high (5V) ok, small error,but you know what I mean :-) > so that no interrupt can occur. When an interrupt IS used, the > external interrupting device has to provide the interrupt address; May I ask where I can find this information about the external device providing the address. > that is then used with the CPU's interrupt vector to determine the > actual memory location to which the CPU must branch. > > So, why is that unusual code in the ROMS, given that the interrupt > pin is tied off AND there is no external interrupt address being > provided? It would be the same situation as the FLAG pin, they wouldnt have been sure that one of the many clones all dont use interupts so it becomes manditory code again. > My guess is that it's a debug thing, for use when the > cartridges were being developed using an hardware CPU > emulator/debugger. This then WOULD be consistant with the Address 3 > operation. "hardware cpu emulator" - did they have one of those back then?,We where still shown how to use an abacus at school and calculators came in suit cases.... This is the only information i have on interupts; When designing a system that utilitizes interrupts, it should be remembered that the processor jams a ZBSR link ZBSR into the IAR and then executes it. See no address bus signal needed, its getting the relative branch address from the DATA BUS not the address bus, since its a relative branch, (8 bit) > Of course, this is only my opinion based on the analysis of the > hardware, schematics, etc. #1893 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:24 pm Subject: Re: Mother-ship > Checked it out on my console...Looks the same as the emulator. Of > course, with the washed out colors in my system, the cyan looks > light purple and the red is brown...! > > (Looks like the green drive is set to high, but I'm not taking my > system apart AGAIN!) The when I compare the emulator against my Mits AX-9 tv the colors are spot on. #1894 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 4:33 pm Subject: Tunix 2001 up to build 20.8.06 Im justing letting anyone know that the new version of the emulator is coming alone nicely; Snapshots - fully functional Movie recordings - Functional, not recording fire/console buttons yet etc, (still on to-do list) CPU emulation - fully optimized UVI emulation vastly improved - before you couldnt change the background color above raster row 16 ??? Sound - A little flat ,but I have solved that annoying "crackling", Can fix flat pitch, (on to-do list) collisions a little buggy till I re-write that one, Changes to the UVI core knocked out that one :-( Doesnt matter, im working on pixel accurate sprite collision. #1895 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 10:57 pm Subject: EAP / UDG file format hi, I have included the EAP format into Tunix2001, as of tommorrows update[build 22.8.06] you can load .EAP sprites directly into Tunix2001, I have already tested it and it works fine. You can also press F12 to view/save the sprites from a game. (Tunix2001) Usefully if you dont press "reset" each sprite set you load will chain together to make bigger sets. I will include some animation views of sprites. I have created another sprite format called .UDG for my emulator and LB; 8 bytes per character, straight foward, no header bytes etc. This way I can create flexiable sprite libraries of any size from a single sprite upto 1024 sprites in 8K. RE:UDG (no sprite should be blank 8 times zero byte indicates end of sprite data (for future development so possibly a data block could be tagged onto end of sprite data)) You will have no problem extracting sprites from the .UDG format Tunix2001 now "understands"; .BIN .SNA .REC .ASM - Create BIN or CREATE text DASMx compatiable .UDG .EAP #1896 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:12 pm Subject: Macros Just played macros again, now that I know you can go into the mothership, that was a way cool level. #1897 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:16 pm Subject: Re: Many Postings, Homewbrew and 'Mothership' > You will need to use my emulator: Tunix 2001 at; > http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz > it is currently the most accurate emulator becauase the timing is spot > on, proof of this can be seen when you run games like bowling. It still doesn't work though, it comes up with the pictures of the games, then when you click one, the wrong game is loaded and then the program hangs. Oh well, at least it isn't bringing down the whole system anymore :-( #1898 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:22 pm Subject: One more post today Also I want to finish the EA paint program, the screens will be compressed insead of byte data as before.(A small machine code program will decompress the pictures on the real machine) This means you can fit upto 5 times more levels/screens into the same amount of ROM, potentially a large number of screens could fit into the real ROM limit of the arcadia. #1899 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:04 am Subject: Re: New Sprite Maker > I have uploaded a new sprite maker program, SpriteMakerEA3. I tried out your sprite maker program and started making some characters for the LB compiler. (built-in sprite lib) I thought that it was good, one suggestion would be a button to clear one sprite in case you just want to start in again. I thought it was cool how each sprite can be assigned a name an color. The sprites I made are in the Tunix2001.zip download now; saved in both .udg and .eap format; look in the BIN folder. It contains some graphics for plants ,space craft,smoke effects, and some tile-able graphics like bricks and stuff. #1900 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:07 am Subject: Re: Many Postings, Homewbrew and 'Mothership' > It still doesn't work though, it comes up with the pictures of the > games, then when you click one, the wrong game is loaded and then the > program Must have been downloaded a few days ago, Its being updated every day at this stage :-)) #1901 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:23 am Subject: Re: Help #2 > What exact type of console are you using? Arcadia 2001...I don't know the date of manufacturer, but the catalog that came with it lists "Funky Fish" and others, as "Coming soon". #1902 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:25 am Subject: Re: Help #3 > "some games that use inverted color" Have not looked at them yet. > "The trick is ... clear the flag pin regardless if you dont want > inverted colors..." Already done. #1903 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:39 am Subject: Re: help booting "ok, small error,but you know what I mean" Yup, no problem > "See no address bus signal needed, its getting the relative branch > address from the DATA BUS not the address bus, since its a relative > branch, (8 bit)" Yes again, guess I should have been more explicit, I just used the term "address" but it was not in reference to the address bus, just the fact that the external device provides a vector. And, it is indeed 8 bits. Thus the CPU makes use of both direct and indirect addressing to allow a jump to any address in memory. Someplace here there was a comment (was it you? My apologies to whomever actually made it) that indicated that other versions of the console may actually make use of the interrupt. This is certainly true, but I am programming only for the Arcadia. Is the use of that UnconditionalReturn at location 3 valid for all the other consoles? I should then certainly include it in my boot code. #1904 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:45 am Subject: Re: New Sprite Maker "I thought that it was good, one suggestion would be a button to clear one sprite in case you just want to start in again" I believe you mean a separate Clear button for each sprite. I'll take a look at it. Charlie #1905 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:03 am Subject: Read-Modify-Write Does anyone know definitively if the Sprite color registers 19FA,19FB are write only? The docs say the "Access Type" is write, which is of course how they are normally used by the CPU. Does this mean I cannot read the data there? I'm assuming that "Access Type" refers to how the CPU uses those addresses that are classified as internal to the video chip. This is confusing considering that there are other memory address that are listed as how the video chip accesses them. Does the term "Access Type", which does not mention the video chip, imply that it is, in fact the CPU? Obviously, the other addresses listed under the video chip access are specifically for the video chip. So far, my testing appears to show that I cannot do a Read-Modify-Write on the sprite color registers. #1910 From: "Gavin" Date: Thu Aug 24, 2006 4:16 pm Subject: Compatiblility? The compiler im using is definitely fully WIN 9x - XP compilant, It understands "BASIC" "C++" "ASSEMBLER" I was in fact not using buffered D3D, by mistake since I had never actually used this new compiler before, I was not awhere of this at first since it still worked fine on any of my three computers. Try running the software using command line and add some switches... C:/Tunix2001.exe -opengl or C:/Tunix2001.exe -direct3d Or at some later date you will be able to use C:/Tunix2001.exe -gdi If I was to get half a dozen reports then I would be concerned, I put this done to the hardware it is used on, once I put in the GDI routines I have this will go further to help out the couple of people who's PC's graphics card can not run this software. #1911 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:52 am Subject: a boy and his console When we last left our hero, he had successfully repaired his ailing Arcadia 2001 console. But then.... (ominous music) tah-daah-dah-DAHH!!! It was discovered that, while the console itself seemd to operate properly, games gave strange responses to controller operations. Some characters moved on their own, some moved haphazardly, and some refused to move at all. A simple test consisted of unplugging the controllers from the console, and re-testing. Success! No strange movements, etc. So, disassembly of the controllers was the next effort. Disassembly and examination of the controllers revealed that much of the conductive silver tracing on the flexible printed circuit boards had worn/corroded away in the areas where the cable connector was installed. Apparently, after lots of years, the silver reacted with the copper/brass of the connector pins and caused corrosion. Obtaining a silver writing pen (from Radio Shack), it was necessary to retrace the tracking on the flex board, effectively replating the silver conductive area. Afterwards, careful pruning with an Exacto knife was needed along the edge of the flex, as the fluid paint "ran" along the narrow edge of the board and effectively shorted the connections together. After much effort (for such a simple device), the controllers were repaired successfully. CatTrax is back on the obsessive-compulsive can't-stop-playing-it list! (angles singing) "Hallelujah" And so concludes the moving story of a boy and his console. May they live happily ever after. #1912 From: "Gavin" Date: Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:40 pm Subject: Tunix2001 feedback I have found some issues with garbage collection of memory in the software and fixed this, big improvement in todays update. #1913 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Aug 26, 2006 8:28 am Subject: IS Astro invaders bad dump, this is so strange??? ;Astro invaders DASM L0336: stra,r1 $1AF0 loda,r0 $18DD,r1 subi,r0 $30 rrr,r0 rrr,r0 rrr,r0 andi,r0 $0F comi,r0 $00 bcta,eq L0391 comi,r0 $06 bcta,eq L0391 comi,r0 $07 bcta,eq L0391 comi,r0 $0D bcta,eq L0391 strz r2 loda,r0 $18D5,r1 <---- [user RAM] comi,r0 $97 bcta,gt L0420 lodz r2 comi,r0 $0D bstr,gt L0377 <---- Note branch here bcta,un L03D3 ; L0368: loda,r1 $1AF0 lodi,r0 $FF retc,un ; db $20, $CE, $7A, $DB db $04, $05, $1F, $04 db $51 ; L0377: bcta,un L0377 <---- Branch onto it self "lockup time" L037A: loda,r1 $1AF0 eorz r0 See above; The instruction at $377 would "lock" the CPU on a real arcadia, this is not valid machine code programming. Ssssssssssssstrange. #1915 From: "Gavin" Date: Sat Aug 26, 2006 9:37 pm Subject: LB Hi I have change the name of LB to Tunix compiler, and will drop all references to basic. I had to do this to make it obvious that its a component of tunix basic, this is the last name change I promise, sorry all. I had to do this becuase im getting totally abused by people who visit my site. One person I dont even know said and i quote "what the hell kind of shit is Lightning basic" it seems like using the term "basic" means that you get uterly abused and put down before they even try it, or they confuse it with a WIN32 compiler. #1916 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:21 pm Subject: Re: IS Astro invaders bad dump, this is so strange??? > See above; The instruction at $377 would "lock" the CPU on a real > arcadia, this is not valid machine code programming. > > Ssssssssssssstrange. It is a bit odd, but I don't believe it to be a bad dump. It was dumped by Ward Shrake who also dumped most of the other cartridges, he is quite thorough. The fact that the game runs perfectly AFAIK is another reason to think it is probably a good dump. My best guess is that it is probably debugging code that was left in the final version through accident or laziness. To be sure about it one would have to thoroughly disassemble the ROM. #1917 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Aug 27, 2006 7:06 am Subject: True True it couldnt be a bad dump, it would be a random address in that case. I have put up a full help page for explaining errors and links to MS for fixing these files, it makes interesting reading http://www.gstsoftware.co.nz/support I learnt some stuff myself on the way, the quote from MS explains charlies error message fully. A good idea might be for me to put in an easy feedback form/page this might encourage people (from all over the web) to report problems. Anyway The emulator is nearing completion so I can get back to the compiler soon. #1918 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Sep 3, 2006 6:48 am Subject: Console music Ok, guys and gals, I can create and control sprites in any allowed color (no collisions yet), I can read the keypad buttons, I can read the paddle buttons (digital only), I can put multicolored alphanumerics on a multi- colored screen, and I have what I believe is a reasonably complete boot-up sequence. (We really need some usuable demos of this stuff). So now I want to tackle music, as in background music while my "killer game" is being played. So, my question...does it make sense to use the VRST interval as a timer, or is there a better way? I can't seem to find any data on timers in the docs. Any suggestions? #1919 From: "Gavin" Date: Sun Sep 3, 2006 7:54 am Subject: Re: Console music > I can create and control sprites in any allowed color (no collisions > yet), I can read the keypad buttons, I can read the paddle buttons > (digital only), I can put multicolored alphanumerics on a multi- > colored screen, and I have what I believe is a reasonably complete > boot-up sequence. (We really need some usuable demos of this stuff). > So now I want to tackle music, as in background music while my "killer > game" is being played. I cant wait to play it already..... > So, my question...does it make sense to use the VRST interval as a > timer, or is there a better way? I can't seem to find any data on > timers in the docs. > > Any suggestions? I would do something like the C64 "ADSR" to manipulate the volume of each note played, simply modifing pitch creates a cheap "toy" sound, but using a rising and falling volume at the start and finish of each note creates cool a "synth" sound. Im going to do some "stuff" with sound envolopes for my compiler, and a sound effect tool, You guessed it... there will be some BIOS rom for the language. Im also going to make some demos soon (about a month away at this pace), I have just about got Tunix2001 back up to speed, so the compiler and demos are next in line. With Tunix2001 you can now disassemble any game and re-assemble them and they are byte for byte perfect. Disassembler is DASMx compatible Game Recording feature is now complete also. There are now keys for stopping and stepping the CPU with readout. #1920 From: "Gavin" Date: Mon Sep 4, 2006 5:21 am Subject: Compiler Update The compiler is moving along FAST! features thus far: In-line assembler Modular user extendable design So far I have almost started from scratch with the compiler, This is how the built-in commands definition file looks so far #SETSOUNDPITCH LODA,R3 $18FE ANDI,R3 $80 IORI,R3 EXPRESSION STRA,R3 $18FE #SETSOUNDOFF LODA,R3 $18FE ANDI,R3 $F8 STRA,R3 $18FE #SETSOUNDON LODA,R3 $18FE IORI,R3 $08 STRA,R3 $18FE #SETNOISEOFF LODA,R3 $18FD ANDI,R3 $EF STRA,R3 $18FD #SETNOISEON LODA,R3 $18FD IORI,R3 $10 STRA,R3 $18FD #SETSCREENCOLOR LODA,R3 $18FD ANDI,R3 $7F IORI,R3 EXPRESSION STRA,R3 $18FD #SETVERTICALSCROLL LODI,R3 EXPRESSION STRA,R3 $18FD #SETHORIZONTALSCROLL LODA,R3 $18FE ANDI,R3 $0F IORI,R3 EXPRESSION STRA,R3 $18FE EXAMPLE: #MynewCLScommand LODI,R3 $FF L0000: STRA,R3 $1800 STRA,R3 $1900 BDRR,L0000 BLAH BLAH .... .... Of Course this is "RAW" code, the compiler does not store at $18fd the re-load the value on the next line, this is where the optimizer comes into the game. Variables will remain in registers when/if at all possible. I have looked into this and it is possible to optimize the code to perfection, 0% bloat is easily achieved. And the compiler re-codes/inserts code as needed at the EXPRESSION lines. Therefore when making your own highlevel instructions it is so easy its not funny. This would be valid Set Horizontal Scroll x+(y shl 4)&$ff Without mod coders needing to make any allowances. notice the use of "C" (sorta) bitwise operators.... NO mention of that ugly "B" word here notice... why stuff it before I even start!!!!!! I have coded some great if then construct code so I will get that in soon. If i really wanted to impress I could add some curly brackets on the if ... then constructs to make the object code run twice as fast LOL! #1921 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Sep 4, 2006 8:09 am Subject: Re: Compiler Update > Therefore when making your own highlevel instructions it is so easy > its not funny. Sounds good. > notice the use of "C" (sorta) bitwise operators.... Except << would be better than Shl... AmiArcadia/WinArcadia 1.62a are out, they basically run everything perfectly except Circus. The timing issues with 3D Bowling, etc. have been resolved. By the way the latest version of your emulator seems to be working OK now. Although there are still a few compatibility issues I noticed...more details if you want them... #1922 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Sep 4, 2006 9:09 am Subject: Re: Console music > C64 "ADSR" Good point. I'll consider it. #1923 From: "Gavin" Date: Tue Sep 5, 2006 12:10 am Subject: Re: Compiler Update > Although there are still a few compatibility issues I noticed...more > details if you want them... Thats Ok ,Im aware of those issues, one is that Tennis doesnt work properly and I haven't implimented the display mode used in Crazy Climber yet. I believe that parts of the code marked to be re-written will resolve all. But I am just to interested in the compiler first at this stage and will go back to them soon. #1924 From: "minuous2" Date: Thu Sep 7, 2006 7:13 am Subject: Pleiades By the way I have noticed that Pleiades doesn't seem to work properly on *any* emulator! Except when firing it is not possible to die. It doesn't seem to use the collision registers; it will need disassembling to find out what's going on :-( #1925 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 5:37 am Subject: No file room Well, we're at 99% of our file space. Obviously a problem. What are the alternatives? Delete some stuff, of course, if we can. But what is discardable and what is not? #1926 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 6:33 am Subject: Re: No file room > Well, we're at 99% of our file space. Obviously a problem. What are > the alternatives? Delete some stuff, of course, if we can. But what > is discardable and what is not? I've raised this point in the past and offered some suggestions on what can be deleted (so refer to that post), but there seems to be a reluctance. It's not really necessary anyway because I'm able to host anything that the members here would like to upload. #1927 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Sep 8, 2006 11:06 am Subject: Re: No file room "host anything that the members here would like to upload." That would certainly be nice. I'd like to have some people who have actual consoles help me verify my test programs, which of course means I need to make them available somehow. I'm sure you'll let us know when you are ready. #1928 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Sep 9, 2006 7:57 am Subject: Updated SpriteMaker SpriteMakerEA4 has been uploaded. Updates include a "clear" button for each individual sprite and a minor bug fix in the display of the color number assignments. Please download this version and discard any previous versions. #1931 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:37 am Subject: Re: No file room > I'm sure you'll let us know when you are ready. OK, the new site is up, it is: http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/ #1932 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 5:41 am Subject: Re: No file room Yay! Now, do you have a file upload area, or do we send stuff to you via email? #1933 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Sep 14, 2006 3:52 pm Subject: Re: No file room Email is best at the moment. Maybe later I will set up an upload area. #1943 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:18 am Subject: Comments WinArcadia is the only emulator that works. Don't know who made it, or what it's pros-vs-cons are....I just know that I use it because it runs. #1944 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Sep 18, 2006 7:28 am Subject: comment #2 Seriously, I don't know about the differences between the emulators, but I do know that only one works for me on my system. I can also tell you that the operation of that emulator seems to default to some settings that the real console does not, which requires specific code be written to force duplicate operations. If the code is not used, the emulator and the console do not operate identically. Should this be considered a bug? Maybe. But does it qualify as a failure? Not in my book. So, despite the emulator wars here, I'm continuing to use WinArcadia. #1947 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:56 am Subject: Re: comment #2 > 2. WinArcadia is the only emulator that works. Don't know who made it, > or what it's pros-vs-cons are....I just know that I use it because it > runs. I made it. Pros vs. Tunix 2001 that immediately spring to mind are: better compatibility, faster execution, smaller size, more features, better interface, less bugs, doesn't require any other system components, compatibility list included, etc. > Seriously, I don't know about the > differences between the emulators, but I do know that only one works > for me on my system. I can also tell you that the operation of that > emulator seems to default to some settings that the real console does > not, which requires specific code be written to force duplicate > operations. If the code is not used, the emulator and the console do > not operate identically. Should this be considered a bug? Maybe. But > does it qualify as a failure? Not in my book. So, despite the emulator > wars here, I'm continuing to use WinArcadia. Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean but you have piqued my interest...are you referring to the startup code? ie. the fact that some of Adam's example programs don't work? IIRC this was verified on the real thing? Or are you referring to something else? If you can give an example I will look into the issue. (I assuming you're not still using V1.4 when V1.63 is now available?) How did you verify that the console doesn't behave this way? #1948 From: "mrjones060" Date: Mon Sep 18, 2006 10:24 pm Subject: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? Hi all ! I seem to have lost the page for ALL games in Ardcadia 2001 and it's family. I do find a complete list of games for Emerson , but where are the rest. I have a bunch of MPT-03 , Intervision 2001 / 3001 games , Hanimex etc ., and would like to confirm what I am missing . Anyone ? Thanks a lot ! #1949 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Sep 19, 2006 12:37 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > I seem to have lost the page for ALL games in Ardcadia 2001 and it's > family. > > I do find a complete list of games for Emerson , but where are the > rest. You'll be wanting the EA2001 Gaming Guide: http://members.optusnet.com.au/jrjacobs76/gg/index.html Also take a look at the Digital Archaeology site mirror at the same site. > I have a bunch of MPT-03 , Intervision 2001 / 3001 games , Hanimex > etc ., and would like to confirm what I am missing . Intervision 3001?! Tell me more... #1951 From: je.f@... Date: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:31 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > http://lomasretro.dyndns.org/intervision3001/ > Here is the machine found from Spain; mine is from Switzerland, and it > is CIB. > It seems to be identical clone of Intervision 2001, but I am not sure > which one is earlier; 2001 or 3001 ? In which language are the instructions from the 2001 and from the 3001? Maybe it's an import version? > It seeem to have no info for Ormatu Family consoles ( Sheen 2001, Ormatu > 2001 , Intervision 2001 ) though ? After I've seen pics from your Intervision collection somewhere in the net, I'm sure it will be difficult for you to find someone with more knowledge about it. Anyway I've made some basic lists some time ago. Confirmed means, that I do have it or I have seen pics of it. Consoles (all confirmed) Intervision 2001 (Finland) Intervision 3001 (Spain, Switzerland) Ormatu 2001 (Netherlands) Sheen 2001 (Australia) Inno Hit CH-50 Home Entertainment Center (Italy) Ormatu (Confirmed) CS201 Soccer CS204 Space Mission CS206 Alien Invader CS207 Math/Logic CS211 Breakaway CS213 Missile War CS214 Combat CS216 Nibblemen CS217 Robot Killer CS218 Circus CS219 Parashooter CS220 Auto Race CS221 Boxing CS225 Crazy Climber CS226 Escape Ormatu (Unconfirmed) CS202 Capture CS203 Basketball CS205 Baseball CS208 American Football CS209 Video Chess CS210 Bowling CS212 Sea Battle CS215 Black Jack & Poker CS224 Golf CS227 Cat Track CS228 Space Raider CS230 Horse Racing CS233 Super Bug Ormatu (rumoured games) CS2__ Fun with Math CS2__ Pinball Intervision (confirmed games) M1 Soccer M2 Capture M3 Basketball M4 Space Mission M5 Baseball M6 Alien Invaders M7 Math / Logic M8 American Football M9 Video Chess M11 Breakaway M12 Sea Battle M13 Missile War M14 Combat M15 Black Jack & Poker M16 Nibblemen M18 Circus M19 Parashooter M20 Auto Race M21 Boxing M24 Golfer M25 Crazy Wall M26 Escape M27 Cat Track M28 Space Raider M33 Super Bug Intervision (unconfirmed games) M10 Bowling M23 Space Squadron M30 Horse Racing Sheen (confirmed games) M1 Soccer M4 Space Mission M6 Alien Invaders M7 Math / Logic M10 Bowling M12 Sea Battle M14 Combat M20 Auto Race M26 Escape M27 Cat Track Sheen (unconfirmed games) M3 Baseball M16 Nibblemen M18 Circus M25 Crazy Wall M1800 (confirmed games) Baseball M1800 (unconfirmed games) Space Mission Hope that helps! Jens #1952 From: "mrjones060" Date: Tue Sep 19, 2006 1:33 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > Intervision 3001?! Tell me more... http://lomasretro.dyndns.org/intervision3001/ Here is the machine found from Spain; mine is from Switzerland, and it is CIB. It seems to be identical clone of Intervision 2001 , but I am not sure which one is earlier ; 2001 or 3001 ? Btw, thanks for the link. It seeem to have no info for Ormatu Family consoles ( Sheen 2001, Ormatu 2001 , Intervision 2001 ) though ? On second look, there is. I might have some MPT-03 boxes you seem to have no pics, is there any adress I might send them ? Also , Í have nearly Complete set of Intervision 2001 ( boxes ,manuals, overlays ). Any need of them ? #1953 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Sep 19, 2006 2:22 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > It seeem to have no info for Ormatu Family consoles ( Sheen 2001, > Ormatu 2001 , Intervision 2001 ) though ? They're combined into the MPT-03 list, since they have a similar numbering system. > I might have some MPT-03 boxes you seem to have no pics, is there any > adress I might send them ? jrj76 AT optusnet DOT com DOT au > Also , Í have nearly Complete set of Intervision 2001 ( > boxes ,manuals, overlays ). > > Any need of them ? Yes absolutely!! That would be excellent! #1954 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Sep 19, 2006 9:16 am Subject: Re: comment #2 > Hmm, I'm not sure what you mean but you have piqued my interest... > are you referring to the startup code? ie. the fact that some of Adam's > example programs don't work? " Don't know Adam or his examples. Just know that most of the examples I tried don't work properly, but I have moved past all of them, to creation of my own examples. Even the simple example that displays the 2001 character set does not function cleanly...so bad, in fact, that at first I thought it wasn't running at all. It was only after I studied the system info/schematics/chipdata that I realized that the example was not written for full console compatibility. As to whether it is startup code or not....well, it needs to be done in all cases, does that qualify it as startup code? In fact, I did put most of the compatibility stuff in my boot section, but the question remains...why am I forcing the console to act like the emulator? Why isn't it the other way around? I've also tried the Tunix...it's not as easy to use as the Winarcadia. > How did you verify that the console doesn't behave this way? Ran them side by side. I do admit to the possibility of problems in my debugging hardware, but that's a low probability, and certainly not in a manner that causes an effect that can be controlled by a line or two of code....that's seems to be too much of a coincidence! But I won't discount it...I'll do more digging. #1955 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Sep 19, 2006 4:39 pm Subject: Re: comment #2 >> "How did you verify that the console doesn't behave this way?" > Ran them side by side. I do admit to the possibility of problems in > my debugging hardware, but that's a low probability, and certainly > not in a manner that causes an effect that can be controlled by a > line or two of code....that's seems to be too much of a coincidence! > But I won't discount it...I'll do more digging. WinArcadia and the console seem to have the same behaviour; neither of them will run those programs. So it is those programs that need fixing, not the emulator. I'll ask Adam if he minds me fixing his examples. #1956 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Tue Sep 19, 2006 7:30 pm Subject: Fixing Adam's Code; was: Re: comment #2 > WinArcadia and the console seem to have the same behaviour; neither of > them will run those programs. So it is those programs that need fixing, > not the emulator. I'll ask Adam if he minds me fixing his examples. Of course not! Please make 'em work. If you would, could you put comments in the source code (or somewhere) with exactly what you did? I don't have time to look at them now, but I'll get around to it at some point. I've always felt bad about those examples that didn't work. Then again, there was nothing else to go on back when I wrote them (except the character set "demo"). Heck, and THAT wasn't even assembled, unless you count HAND assembly. I had to dig up most of the manuals. Ward really did the Arcadia community a service when he made a "community" out of it by getting everything together in one place. Adam Trionfo P.S. I lurk on this board and still read most (all?) messages. I'm pretty impressed with all of the development going on. I don't even have my Arcadia 2001 anymore, as the controllers were just unbearable to me. However, as a platform, it is neat with all of its quirks. It seems to me, that the damn system was released everywhere except Antartica! #1957 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:02 am Subject: Re: Fixing Adam's Code; was: Re: comment #2 >> WinArcadia and the console seem to have the same behaviour; neither of >> them will run those programs. So it is those programs that need fixing, >> not the emulator. I'll ask Adam if he minds me fixing his examples. > > Of course not! Please make 'em work. If you would, could you put > comments in the source code (or somewhere) with exactly what you did? > I don't have time to look at them now, but I'll get around to it at > some point. I've > always felt bad about those examples that didn't work. Then again, there > was nothing else to go on back when I wrote them (except the character set > "demo"). Heck, and THAT wasn't even assembled, unless you count HAND > assembly. I had to dig up most of the manuals. Ward really did the > Arcadia > community a service when he made a "community" out of it by getting > everything together in one place. I've fixed SPRITE, HELLO and CHARTEST. MOTHSHIP was already OK. You can get the updated Examples Pack at EA2001 Central: http://amigan.classicgaming.byethost.com/ Apart from the startup code nothing else needed changing. #1958 From: Jouni.nygard@... Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 4:55 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? Hi I can confirm these INTERVISION 2001 games M1 Soccer M2 Capture M3 Basketball M4 Space Mission M5 Baseball M6 Alien Invader M7 Math/Logic M8 American Football M9 Video Chess M10 Bowling M11 Breakaway M12 Sea Battle M13 Missile War M14 Combat M15 21 (Black Jack & Poker) M16 Nibblemen M18 Akrobat(Circus) M19 Parashooter M20 Auto Race M21 Boxing M24 Golfer ( Golf ) M25 Crazy Climber M26 Escape M27 Cat Track M28 Space Raider M30 Horse Racing M33 Super Bug INTERVISION (Unconfirmed) M17 Robot Killer --- i HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD THIS ONE ? M23 Space Squadron --- i HAVE NEVER SEEN OR HEARD THIS ONE ? What are those M1800 games, in some of the Intervision box labels there mare under the glued title ( or i think it was ) For use with M1800 system? mrjones #1959 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:16 am Subject: Re: comment #2 > WinArcadia and the console seem to have the same behaviour; neither > of them will run those programs. So it is those programs that need > fixing, not the emulator. Hmm, I agree that the programs need fixing, which is why I wrote my own equivalent examples of them. However, I don't agree that Winarcadia and the console have the same behavior...the differences are what prompted my comments in the first place. Winarcadia does a fine job displaying the character set, for example (no pun intended!), by starting the display on the top line of the window and showing all the characters. The console starts the display about 90% of the way down the screen, with the rest not visible off the bottom of the screen. This kind of improper operation occurs with almost all of the examples. The "read-the-paddle-to-control-one-of-eight- multiplexed-sprites" example comes to mind; that example is particularly non-console oriented. After reviewing the various examples, I am tempted to say that they were written to work specifically on the emulator....possibly because the author did not have an actual console? #1960 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:10 am Subject: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > Hi I can confirm these INTERVISION 2001 games OK, so Ward Shrake's official lists need to be updated. He has officially left the Arcadia community as everyone knows, thus someone needs to be appointed as the official maintainer of them. I am willing to take on this responsibility if no one has any objections...? #1961 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:22 am Subject: Fixing Adam's Code; was: Re: comment #2 Maybe we should get together to come up with a generic boot setup that becomes the basis for start-up of all programs? And, does anyone else besides me have a console so we can verify my findings? (although, I would have thought that, if such a person were available, the examples would have already been fixed). And (#2) is it practical to post code snippets of our suggestions and efforts here in the message area? I ask this because of the limited file space left for uploading what is sure to be a flurry of pro-vs- con code blocks that are submitted while this is worked out. #1962 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:28 am Subject: Fixing Adam's Code; was: Re: comment #2 I have written a "read-the-paddles", "read-the-buttons", "sprite animation", "sprite display", "character display", "ascii text display" and a few other examples. I am interested in comparing them with the updated existing examples. I will try to do that in the next few days. #1963 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:31 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? Ok, sidebar here.....I recall someone asking about "superbug", so I looked up this program. But, there are apparently two different programs with this name (or at least similar names). One is an insect that tries not to get eaten, the other is a Volkswagon beetle that drives over everything. Which is the 2001 program? #1964 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 5:43 am Subject: Re: comment #2 > Hmm, I agree that the programs need fixing, which is why I wrote my > own equivalent examples of them. However, I don't agree that > Winarcadia and the console have the same behavior...the differences > are what prompted my comments in the first place. Winarcadia does a > fine job displaying the character set, for example (no pun > intended!), by starting the display on the top line of the window and > showing all the characters. The console starts the display about 90% > of the way down the screen, with the rest not visible off the bottom > of the screen. This kind of improper operation occurs with almost > all of the examples. The "read-the-paddle-to-control-one-of-eight- > multiplexed-sprites" example comes to mind; that example is > particularly non-console oriented. After reviewing the various > examples, I am tempted to say that they were written to work > specifically on the emulator....possibly because the author did not > have an actual console? Yeah, I don't have an actual console :-( I thought the emulation was very close, but not so apparently :-( But you will be able to help considerably to improve it, eg. I can write test programs, eg. a program to test the theory about whether sprites can be "reused" multiple times per frame, if you are willing to help by testing such programs on the actual console. Plus you could tell whether the unconfirmed "non-problems" with games are genuine. I have noticed that the behaviour of MULTIPLX, the program you mentioned, is different under MESS V2 and under Ami/WinArcadia, I do not know which is correct. Eg. which line of sprites is uppermost, is it the line with the plane or the car, I wonder...? #1965 From: je.f@... Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:04 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > I am willing to take on this responsibility if no one has any > objections...? I overtook Ward's job at Digital Press some time ago and the lists I have are more or less up-to-date. (If the DP list is what you mean by Ward Shrake's official lists.) There is also a later version of the list online. You can find it at www.digitpress.com. It contains additional systems and games compared with the DP guide #7 and also some more rarity infos. (I need to update that list and correct some mistakes, but that will be done soon.) Jens #1966 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:09 am Subject: Re: Fixing Adam's Code > Maybe we should get together to come up with a generic boot setup > that becomes the basis for start-up of all programs? And, does > anyone else besides me have a console so we can verify my findings? > (although, I would have thought that, if such a person were > available, the examples would have already been fixed). > And (#2) is it practical to post code snippets of our suggestions and > efforts here in the message area? I ask this because of the limited > file space left for uploading what is sure to be a flurry of pro-vs- > con code blocks that are submitted while this is worked out. I've written a "standard bootstrap" (32 bytes) as listed in the Coding Guide ( http://members.optusnet.com.au/jrjacobs76/coding.txt ) similar to what is used in the dumped games. I've now mirrored all the files so deletions can be made by Russ/Stefan to the file area to free up space. Or you can email them to me and I will upload them to EA2001 Central. > Ok, sidebar here.....I recall someone asking about "superbug", so I > looked up this program. But, there are apparently two different > programs with this name (or at least similar names). One is an > insect that tries not to get eaten, the other is a Volkswagon beetle > that drives over everything. Which is the 2001 program? The insect that tries not to get eaten. As far as I know this is an original game (presumably by UA Ltd.), released for MPT-03, Intervision and Ormatu only. The car game is an Atari/Kee Games coin-op from 1977. #1967 From: je.f@... Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:16 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > What are those M1800 games,, in some of the Intervision box labels there > mare under the glued title ( or i think it was ) For use with M1800 > system? The M1800 as a system is still unconfirmed, but I've found a pic in the net of the Baseball game. That's pretty much all I no about it. About half a year ago there was an auction of a Sheen console with games on Ebay Australia and there was a second one of these included. I've asked the seller to ship it to Europe. He refused it and didn't answer when I was asking for more pics. I'll sent the pics to your e-mail and maybe later today I'll try to learn how to upload files here... ;) #1968 From: je.f@... Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:10 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > Ok, sidebar here.....I recall someone asking about "superbug", so I > looked up this program. But, there are apparently two different > programs with this name (or at least similar names). One is an > insect that tries not to get eaten, the other is a Volkswagon beetle > that drives over everything. Which is the 2001 program? There are two different "bug" programs for the Arcadia 2001: Jump Bug (the one with the VW beetel) and Super Bug (which I've never played/seen, as it's still not dumped and almost impossible to find.) Jump Bug is also called Hoppy Bug (Bandai Arcadia) or Buggy Magot (Advision). #1969 From: "oboissea" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:47 am Subject: Just a word Just a word to say that I'm still reading this group and happy to see more activity rising up. I try to update www.old-computers.com as much as I can depending on what is happening here. Thanks all for your interest in those little obscure systems. I only hope there will soon be an "Interton VC-4000" emulator. #1970 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 6:57 am Subject: Re: comment #2 > Eg. which line of sprites is uppermost, is it the line with the > plane or the car I will check on that soonest. #1971 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:07 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? > There are two different "bug" programs for the Arcadia 2001: > > Jump Bug (the one with the VW beetel) and > Super Bug (which I've never played/seen, as it's still not dumped and > almost impossible to find.) > > Jump Bug is also called Hoppy Bug (Bandai Arcadia) or Buggy Magot > (Advision). Ok, so I'm following the trail of the insect, not the car. #1972 From: Jouni.nygard@... Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:04 am Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 family game lists ? to my experience , the rarity of intervision are : M1 Soccer 8 M2 Capture 8 M3 Basketball 8 M4 Space Mission 8 M5 Baseball 9 M6 Alien Invader 9 M7 Math/Logic 7 M8 American Football 9 M9 Video Chess 8 M10 Bowling 7 M11 Breakaway 7 M12 Sea Battle 9 M13 Missile War 7 M14 Combat 7 M15 21 (Black Jack & Poker) 7 M16 Nibblemen 10 M18 Akrobat(Circus) 9 M19 Parashooter 9 M20 Auto Race 9 M21 Boxing 8 M24 Golfer ( Golf ) 5 M25 Crazy Climber 10 M26 Escape 9 M27 Cat Track 7 M28 Space Raider 8 M30 Horse Racing 9 M33 Super Bug 10 Of those number 10 rarities , only 1 known copies seems are found so far mrjones #1973 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:04 am Subject: Fixing Adam's Code > I've now mirrored all the files so deletions can be made by > Russ/Stefan to the file area to free up space. Or you can email them > to me and I will upload them to EA2001 Central" I have no problem doing that, but I would think that they should be verified before being posted as valid. I specifically would like someone (actually, more than one) to view/critique/test my boot file, with the intent of us reaching a group consensus as to what the boot file should do. My boot file is much more than 32 bytes, as it configures the entire system as a prep for whatever code an author may chose to write; that is, the system is in a known default mode for all registers, flags, status codes, video modes, etc. To me it only makes sense that the hardware be in a given "boot" configuration before starting any "application" code. #1974 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 7:06 am Subject: Re: Just a word > I only hope there will soon be an "Interton VC-4000" emulator. I'm willing to write one but I would need ROMs to test it with. And the 2636 PVI manual would be invaluable, the only documentation I have is reverse-engineered, tentative and incomplete :-( #1975 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:19 am Subject: Emulator difference Has anybody compared Tunix vs WinArcadia in reference to the right controller? They do not appear to match. Specifically, the 0 and CLR seem reversed. #1976 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 10:45 am Subject: Tunix Playing some more with Tunix.... Suggestion: It is a pain to single step Control_Z my way through loops. Can either: 1. Control_Z be made repeatable, like the usual keyboard operation of a short pause while held down = repeat. ---OR--- 2. Can you add (or is there already?) a "run to this address" function? Question: is the constant flashing of the caption bar an artifact of the programming environment? I find it hard to believe that it would be done deliberately!!! #1977 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Sep 20, 2006 1:53 pm Subject: Re: Emulator difference > Has anybody compared Tunix vs WinArcadia in reference to the right > controller? They do not appear to match. Specifically, the 0 and CLR > seem reversed. Confirmed. Yet another bug in Tunix. Other Tunix keyboard bugs found within first 5 minutes: many keys not heard if NumLock is off, the "V" key seems to function as the left player's "x4" button and as the right player's "5" button, numeric "0" key is right player's "x4" button and left player's "5" button, right player's "1" button not working etc.! > have no problem doing that, but I would think that they should be > verified before being posted as valid. I specifically would like > someone (actually, more than one) to view/critique/test my boot file, > with the intent of us reaching a group consensus as to what the boot > file should do. My boot file is much more than 32 bytes, as it > configures the entire system as a prep for whatever code an author > may chose to write; that is, the system is in a known default mode > for all registers, flags, status codes, video modes, etc. To me it > only makes sense that the hardware be in a given "boot" configuration > before starting any "application" code. Well, the UVI should be in a known state, CPU registers aren't all initialized though... #1978 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 5:59 am Subject: Re: Emulator difference Re Tunix, here's my quickie list: 1. Emulated right controller "/" does not toggle console "1" button 2. The keyboard text document "Joystick controller layout" has the "ENTR" and "CLR" reversed compared to the console. 3. The keyboard text document "Joystick controller layout" shows "A", "B", "C", "D" buttons that do not exist on the 2001 console. 4. Notwithstanding item #2, the right joystick emulated buttons "1" and "2" and "3" do not map properly to "ENTR", "0", and "CLR" 5. The keyboard text document has "viewer" mispelled (under the "F12" description). 6. The music/tone emulation is off on both the tone and the duration; obviously a timing factor. 7. The keyboard text document is ambiguous as regards to the "Control A" operation. The joystick that came with the console is a digital joystick, in that the switch is either open or closed for each direction. What you would normally call the paddles (those rotary things with the big knobs) are analog, in that they have continuous multiple values. In addition, using "Control A" apparently toggles between the two, which the docs don't mention, nor does the display tell you where you are. 8. The menu texts, like "File", etc, don't do anything; only the icons work. #1979 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:10 am Subject: Re: Emulator difference part 2 "Well, the UVI should be in a known state, CPU registers aren't all initialized though..." Yes, that's what my boot does. Thus, it is, as I have mentioned, it's a lot longer than 32 bytes; it approaches 80 bytes. And, if you add to that the necessary standard program initialization (boot is just the hardware initialization - even though the program initialization is actually doing some hardware stuff, too)the results are that the minimum startup code, before you even get to any application portion, is somewhere about 115 bytes. #1980 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:03 am Subject: Re: comment #2 Here's the sprite data on the multiplex program: On both tunix and winarcadia, there is only one row of sprites, blue pacman, green headphones, black bug with 4 legs, yellow tank. On the console, the top line is packman, blob with two legs, falling double arrow, demon face. The bottom line is rocketship, headphones, don't know (black sprite on black background, probably the 4-legged guy), and tank. I hesitate to give colors to these 8 sprites because the color is off on my system. My best guess would be (top row, left to right) = light blue, dark pink, light green, brown; (bottom row, left to right) = purple, light blue, black, pale green. Most importantly, the top left sprite constantly moves to the right, without any paddle input. Using the paddles, I can control up or down only, which results in an upward right diagonal or a downward right diagonal. Trying the left paddle will stop the sprite, rather than move it to the left. I didn't make an example for this operation for my own use, I have a "Get the paddle data" program and a "Sprite creation" program; I just didn't put them together to control a sprite. #1981 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:50 am Subject: Re: Emulator difference part 2 >> "Well, the UVI should be in a known state, CPU registers aren't all >> initialized though..." > > Yes, that's what my boot does. Thus, it is, as I have mentioned, > it's a lot longer than 32 bytes; it approaches 80 bytes. And, if you > add to that the necessary standard program initialization (boot is > just the hardware initialization - even though the program > initialization is actually doing some hardware stuff, too)the results > are that the minimum startup code, before you even get to any > application portion, is somewhere about 115 bytes. That would be interesting to see. > Re Tunix, here's my quickie list: Yeah, it's full of bugs. Another one is that it often crashes on exit. I've reported most of these bugs already but he shows no interest in fixing them. So I wouldn't waste too much time digging around for bugs in his emulator, they aren't likely to be fixed anyway. (Eg. the sound being completely wrong: he has known about this for over a year but I suspect he lacks the skills to implement it correctly. And since it's closed source no one else can fix them either.) Whereas my policy is to always fix any bugs that are reported in my programs as soon as possible. So if you have any WinArcadia bug reports they will be acted on and fixed. But of course I can't and won't fix bugs in his emulator without access to the source code. > Here's the sprite data on the multiplex program: That's not quite the result I get. Are you using the latest WinArcadia (1.63) with the latest MULTIPLX.BIN (V2.03, CRC32 of $1938D801)? As both have been updated within the last few weeks, in an attempt to fix the kinds of problems you reported. Both rows are visible, though the sprites and colours are different. Black sprite on black background is particularly strange...you are just getting a black square?! I don't know what could be causing that, maybe accessing the UVI at the wrong time, maybe at some point in the frame the real UVI is setting each line of each sprite to $FF momentarily? #1982 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:18 am Subject: Re: Emulator difference part 2 > That would be interesting to see. I've put a zip file in the files section. > "latest WinArcadia (1.63)" No, help data says 1.43 > (V2.03, CRC32 of $1938D801)? No again, asm file says 2.02 (26.7.2005). I assume the binary is the associated output. Let me update them and try again. > you are just getting a black square?! No, the background is black, so I don't see anything, thus my guess that it is the black sprite in that location. The two surrounding sprites are spaced appropriately, so it would seem to support that. #1983 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:31 pm Subject: re: VC4000 Emulation > I only hope there will soon be an Interton VC-4000" emulator. > I'm willing to write one but I would need ROMs to test it > with. And the 2636 PVI manual would be invaluable, the > only documentation I have is reverse-engineered, > tentative and incomplete :-( I'm confused - One version of Gavin's emulator already (the ROMS are built in??) supports Acetronic/Fountain games - ie. VC4000 family games. So Emulation + dumped ROMs already exist (I'm unsure if he has released these seperately) Oh & if Gavin is reading this - please return the carts I loaned you for dumping!!! arrggggggh - its been months since you promised to return them and some of the games I sent are only copies I own :( #1984 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:41 pm Subject: Videomaster Database Game list. fyi - Another VC4000 family cartridge has recently come to light in the UK for the Waddingtons/Voltmace Database system. Cartridge No.29 "Crazy Crab" (pacmanish maze game) So whoever is keeping track of this stuff this is one number higher than the previously known list of titles for this system (inc. unreleased) 23 - Backgammon 24 - Munch and Crunch 25 - Leapfrog 26 - Chess 27 - DazRAM (un-released) 28 - Starship "Protector" (un-released) 29 - Crazy Crab Since one copy was found, another has shown up on ebay UK so it is a confirmed release. Note: Derek Andrews who programmed Munch&Cruch + Leapfrog & the unreleased Starship "Protector" has confirmed he did not work on this game and it must postdate his involvement with Voltmace. Ta. Mike #1985 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 4:35 pm Subject: Fountain/Acetronic/Radofin "Hobby Module" Cartridge found. I've just updated my Fountain page here: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/fountain.htm The big update is I'vve finally tracked down a copy of Acetronic/Radofin/Fountain "Hobby Module" - a cartridge that has eluded me for years and was one of my own personal "holy grails". Its a really unusual piece of equipment - its more a dev. system than anything else - all programming is done at Assembly level - its very very complicated and user unfriendly (its not like Atari Basic Programming at all). No wonder its so hard to find. The DIN plug built in which supports loading/saving from tape. The best part is the 100+ page manual which is page after page of technical references. I will be posting code examples etc. from the manual shortly. As to its origin - the manual was clearly written by someone in the UK (no engrish) who had full access to all the chip spec sheets (Mullard etc. are credited) and I believe the module was designed in the UK. Ta. Mike Auckland, New Zealand #1986 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:07 pm Subject: Re: VC4000 Emulation > I'm confused - One version of Gavin's emulator already (the > ROMS are built in??) supports Acetronic/Fountain games - ie. > VC4000 family games. > > So Emulation + dumped ROMs already exist (I'm unsure if he > has released these seperately) Well, Emulator 2001 was supposed to eventually support the VC-4000 but the emulation is faulty and incomplete - nothing is playable. The ROMs are built into the executable (which is of course illegal). (He refused to release them as normal BIN files as he wanted to force everyone to use his emulator for them. Then he gave up on VC-4000 emulation altogether, but still didn't release the ROMs.) The problem however is that they are mixed in with Arcadia games, VZ-200 games, emulator code, etc. Apparently some VC-4000 games have been dumped previously by others; if I can get those ROMs then I will have some context to go by and should be able to extract the rest of the ROMs from the executable. Or if anyone else wants to have a go at extracting them I can send them the relevant file. (The raw file had 7 empty bytes between each byte, this explains the ~10Mb size of the executable: I've removed these empty bytes). Apparently he also has a scan of the 2636 PVI manual but is likewise refusing to release that. His attitude seems to be to hamper everyone else and force them to use his (non-working) Emulator 2001. Which he doesn't even provide anymore. The other option for Interton VC-4000 emulation is MESS. I can't say how well this works without anything to test with it :-( however it would have to be better than Emulator 2001's non-working emulation. #1987 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Fri Sep 22, 2006 12:07 am Subject: WinArcadia 2.0 beta > Yeh, me too, but I love the debug function. I can overlook all that > other stuff, since I am not using it for actual game/program usage. > Now, if only the "run to address" function was implemented...! OK, I am making V2.0 of AmiArcadia/WinArcadia. WinArcadia 2.0 beta is available. Features from the Amiga version that are now also available in the Windows version are the ability to dump UDCs, sprites, screen, etc., CPU tracing, and setting of breakpoints and watchpoints. A new feature is single stepping. A few examples: wa bp=$734 breaks when IAR reaches $734. wa bp=33 wp=$36 breaks when IAR reaches 33 (decimal) or when the byte at address $36 is changed. Currently you can only set breakpoints/watchpoints from the command line. The final version will allow it to be done from inside the GUI. Only one breakpoint and one watchpoint are supported. Any suggestions you have for other features will be considered. Enjoy... #1988 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Sep 22, 2006 1:26 am Subject: Re: WinArcadia 2.0 beta I haven't checked yet (system temporarily down), but I bet the colors are still reversed. I notice long ago (ok, a few weeks) that the console colors and the emulator colors were reversed. I was told to access the "FLAG" function (either set or reset it, I don't remember which) so that the emulator colors would match the console colors. That's why, in my boot stuff, you see a FLAG access. But, it should not really be necessary. If I leave it out, the console gives me the colors as desired, but the emulator shows them reversed. So, by doing the FLAG thing, the console is unaffected, but the emulator reverses its colors and thus matches the console. Again, it should not be necessary to write the code to correct the emulator; it should operate that way as the default. Supporting this thought of the colors being reversed, is our previous conversation about the sprites, specifically the black sprite. If you recall, I mentioned that I couldn't see the black sprite because the background color was black; but on the emulator it is white, which is why, I suspect, you inqured about thinking that the black sprite was just a black square. It probably was not, it was just the black sprite hidden in the consoles black background (which, again, on the emulator is white and the black sprite is thus clearly visible) Currently, my system down for some minor enhancements, but I expect to have it back up this weekend. Then I can run the new multiplex program on the real console and see if: a. The colors are reversed b. The sprite motion is now properly controlled #1990 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Fri Sep 22, 2006 8:53 am Subject: WinArcadia 2.0 beta 2 > 3. I haven't checked yet (system temporarily down), but I bet the > colors are still reversed. I notice long ago (ok, a few weeks) that > the console colors and the emulator colors were reversed. I was > told to access the "FLAG" function (either set or reset it, I don't > remember which) so that the emulator colors would match the console > colors. That's why, in my boot stuff, you see a FLAG access. But, > it should not really be necessary. If I leave it out, the console > gives me the colors as desired, but the emulator shows them > reversed. So, by doing the FLAG thing, the console is unaffected, > but the emulator reverses its colors and thus matches the console. > Again, it should not be necessary to write the code to correct the > emulator; it should operate that way as the default. Supporting > this thought of the colors being reversed, is our previous > conversation about the sprites, specifically the black sprite. If > you recall, I mentioned that I couldn't see the black sprite because > the background color was black; but on the emulator it is white, > which is why, I suspect, you inqured about thinking that the black > sprite was just a black square. It probably was not, it was just the > black sprite hidden in the consoles black background (which, again, > on the emulator is white and the black sprite is thus clearly > visible) Currently, my system down for some minor enhancements, but > I expect to have it back up this weekend. Then I can run the new > multiplex program on the real console and see if: > a. The colors are reversed > b. The sprite motion is now properly controlled IIRC, some consoles (eg. MPT-03) have the Flag bit connected, others (eg. Emerson) don't and thus ignore the Flag bit - maybe it is active low? I've now added a "Flag pin connected?" toggle option to WinArcadia. When it is turned off (disconnected) the state of the flag pin doesn't affect the display. I've also made a new version of MULTIPLX, you can now toggle the Flag bit on and off with the left player's firebutton ("2"). I get white background with Flag off and black background with Flag on. #1991 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:15 am Subject: Emulatotr updates Ok, here's the info, using latest multiplex 2.03 (14.9.2005): A. WinArcadia 1.63 = white background, shows all 8 sprites, none moving, keys I,J,K,L control pacman sprite B. Winarcadia 2.0 Beta = same as above C. Console = Black display (background), white border area, 7 visible sprites with one possible black sprite hidden, pacman moves left-to-right without paddle input, can be moved up or down at a diagonal, attempted left paddle movement stops pacman. As an additional FYI, both WinArcadia's, as well as Tunix, fail the read-modify-write test. Try this: lodi,r0 00h stra,r0 19FBh loda,r0 19FBh strz r1 andi,r0 0Fh iori,r0 10h stra,r0 1801h rrr,r1 rrr,r1 rrr,r1 rrr,r1 andi,r1 0Fh iori,r1 10h stra,r1 1800h The proper result is "FF"; the emulators display "00". #1992 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Sep 22, 2006 10:19 am Subject: Re: WinArcadia 2.0 beta 2 Damn, I go to all the trouble to do a significant level of testing on the darn thing, and you go and have an update before I even finish! Now I have to do it again :) Guess that makes my previous message moot..... Ok, I'll try the new stuff soon. #1993 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Sep 22, 2006 11:28 am Subject: Emulator update newer Good news: Most recent code, beta 2, now has the pacman sprite fully under paddle control on the console. Also, controller button toggles color scheme. Bad news: The sprite sequence between the emulator and the console is different. Console has (Top, l to r): PacMan, Blob with 2 legs, Double arrow, Alien face (Bot, l to r): Rocket, headphones, {blank = black on black OR white on white}, tank Emulator has (Top, l to r): PacMan, headphones, House with 4 legs, Tank (Bot, l to r): Rocket, Blob with 2 legs, Double arrow, Alien face Also, (this is confusing), the toggled sprite color scheme seems reversed as compared to the toggled background color. But don't concern yourself with this yet; I am the first to admit that my console's video color display is so washed out that my reds can be either brown or orange, depending upon if you close one eye or not! I have not made fixing the color representation a priority yet, as it would mean opening the console again. #1994 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sat Sep 23, 2006 6:07 am Subject: Re: Emulator update newer > Most recent code, beta 2, now has the pacman sprite fully under > paddle control on the console. Also, controller button toggles > color scheme. > > Bad news: > > The sprite sequence between the emulator and the console is different. > > Console has (Top, l to r): PacMan, Blob with 2 legs, Double arrow, > Alien face > (Bot, l to r): Rocket, headphones, {blank = black on > black OR white on white}, tank > > Emulator has (Top, l to r): PacMan, headphones, House with 4 legs, Tank > (Bot, l to r): Rocket, Blob with 2 legs, Double arrow, Alien face Hmm. So the console seems to have the same behaviour as MESS V2. Except that the car (I think this is what you are referring to as "PacMan"?) and plane are apparently on the top and bottom rows respectively on the console, and are on the bottom and top rows respectively on MESS V2. It seems like toggling the Flag line has an effect on your console? So the Flag line must be connected after all? > C. Console = Black display (background), white border area Strange, it doesn't use mode 1 ("board mode" - high bit of $18FD), so the inner and outer background colours should be the same!? #1995 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Sep 23, 2006 7:16 am Subject: Re: Emulator update newer > "It seems like toggling the Flag line has an effect on your console? > So the Flag line must be connected after all?" Disagree. The schematic shows no connection there, and the PCB physically does not have any connection there. In addition, I have toggled the flag in code on the conosle and there appears to be no effect on the console color operations. On the emulator, this command switches the color bits (0 to 1, 1 to 0) so that White (111) becomes Black (000) and etc for the other colors. This was why I had to release an updated version of SpriteMaker; I had written it before I had my system operational, and so had it set up for the emulator colors. I think there is a comment on this in my Boot code that I uploaded in the files section. > "the car (I think this is what you are referring to as "PacMan"?)" Agreed > "inner and outer background colours should be the same!?" Definitely not the same. Both are opposite and both toggle with the emulator flag command, thus they are still opposite. And, is one of the sprites "invisible" because it is the same color as the display background (no matter what the state of the Flag)? Reference the "read-modify-write" test. Change the target memory location from RAM to someplace in the video display (except, of course, the top left where the result is displayed), and run again. On the console, you will get 00. So, sprite ram, as well as numerous other ram locations, can only be written to. Video ram can be both written to and read from. If you check my boot code you should see comments on this. And again I remind you, do not put too much concern as to the actual sprite colors, my console is not yet up to par in that area. #1996 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:01 am Subject: Re: Emulator update newer >> "It seems like toggling the Flag line has an effect on your console? >> So the Flag line must be connected after all?" > > Disagree. The schematic shows no connection there, and the PCB > physically does not have any connection there. In addition, I have > toggled the flag in code on the conosle and there appears to be no > effect on the console color operations. Ah, OK, I misunderstood you when you said "Controller button toggles color scheme."; you were referring to the emulator. So presumably the only effect on the console would be to change the "OFF" to "ON" and vice versa. >> "inner and outer background colours should be the same!?" > > Definitely not the same. Both are opposite and both toggle with the > emulator flag command, thus they are still opposite. Strange. Somehow it seems to be ending up in board mode (on the console) when that wasn't intended. Maybe it's a problem with the boot code, I'll replace with your boot code and see what happens. > And, is one of > the sprites "invisible" because it is the same color as the display > background (no matter what the state of the Flag)? No, not meant to be invisible. > Reference the "read-modify-write" test. Change the target memory > location from RAM to someplace in the video display (except, of > course, the top left where the result is displayed), and run again. > On the console, you will get 00. So, sprite ram, as well as > numerous other ram locations, can only be written to. Video ram can > be both written to and read from. If you check my boot code you > should see comments on this. Ah, OK, so such locations should always return $FF when read? That will be easy to implement. #1997 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:33 am Subject: SpriteMaker5 All, I have discovered a minor bug in SpriteMaker4, and deleted that file from the Files section. SpriteMaker5 is now the latest. Please download this file and delete the previous version. Thank you. #1998 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Sep 23, 2006 10:30 am Subject: Re: Emulator update newer > "Controller button toggles color scheme."; you were referring to the > emulator. Yea, my bad, sorry. > effect on the console would be to change the "OFF" to "ON" Well, maybe. The problem is that no "OFF" or "ON" text appears on the screen at all. But, a LOT of other garbage does. It looks like, while the center of the center of the screen has a reasonable clean display area where the sprites are, the outside of the center screen has lots of miscellaneous blocks on and off, sort of like a crossword puzzles black&white mix, including some at the upper right, which seem to be somewhat more regular. An educated guess would say that this is where your text was supposed to be? (I notice that, when I change the color scheme, one of the blocks changes sizes that is equivalent to a three character text going to a two character text, and vice versa...which is of course what "OFF" and "ON" would do) If so, it looks like you are in block mode, not character mode, and that the video ram needs to be cleared. The border (outside the display area) is correctly "clean". I wish I had some way to get you a screen shapshot of this....let me think on it. > Ah, OK, so such locations should always return $FF when read? Yes, those should (please see the boot code), but I don't know what ALL of them should do. As I said, the video area writes/reads-back ok, and the few RAM areas I have tested do not, but I have not tested them all. And I actually thought this operation would be much harder to implement in the emulator than you seem to indicate. Cool! #2000 From: "mc71de" Date: Mon Sep 25, 2006 4:01 pm Subject: FLAG line woes; was: Emulator update newer Hi Charlie, --- "charliee1151" wrote: [FLAG toggles foreground colors] > Disagree. The schematic shows no connection there, and the PCB > physically does not have any connection there. BEEP. Which schematic, and what console version? The Palladium VGC schematic, iirc, has the connection, as well as it is present on my console. I'm referring to a Schmid TVG 2000 that uses the almost same board as the Arcadia 2001, only with components for PAL video and some other minor modifications against the Emerson service manual. Again IIRC the FLAG line is connected with a short length of insulated wire, whereas one additional address line to the cartridge port is etched on the board... i should dig out my console and finally document all this ;-) So, long story short: There are such little differences between all the console revisions with that chipset, and we haven't found a general rule for what console has it or not. Oh, and if you ever see a screen shot of '3D Tennis' with a pink court instead of a green one... it's because the console, or the emulator, does it different :-) Max #2001 From: "mc71dd" Date: Mon Sep 25, 2006 6:14 pm Subject: Re: Fountain/Acetronic/Radofin "Hobby Module" Cartridge found Hi Michael, --- pinwhiz@... wrote: > > I've just updated my Fountain page here: > http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/fountain.htm > > The big update is I'vve finally tracked down a copy of > Acetronic/Radofin/Fountain "Hobby Module" - a cartridge that > has eluded me for years and was one of my own personal "holy > grails". WOW! Great find. And the keyoad overlays look astonishingly familiar... like... the Elektor TV Games Computer keyboard! I would not be too astonished to find the very same monitor program inside... something that i suspected when i first heard about that module, but never really believed they had really done. FWIW, the hardware is trivial- there are Interton modules that already have RAM in them (just put the Elektor ROM in an Interton-22 'Chess II' cart or something like that), and the Cassette interface is quite simple too. Not so trivial, however, would have been the price back then. > Its a really unusual piece of equipment - its more a dev. > system than anything else Speaking of dev systems - back in 2002, we reasoned about the Elektor monitor and whether/if it was an official dev tool, or something made exclusively for Elektor. We have not yet compared it to the system ROM of the Instructor-50 (which was the 'official' 2650 dev/demo system)... ...but... ...i did find a book, dated 1984, that describes yet another DIY computer built around the Signetics 2650. A very thorough book, the thickest of the three (Elektor, Topp, and this one issued by Ravensburger) and giving step-by-step instructions to build a full-fledged 'blinkenlights and digikeys' type computer. Sadly, there is no listing of the monitor program- you had to order a pre-programmed ROM from the author's wife's firm ;-) but the keyboard looks just as familiar as does the Radofin/Acetronic cart. Luckily, the author is still listed in the phone directory. At the same address as twenty-two years ago - which is quite rare these days. Even more interesting: I googled for his e-mail address- and didn't find one. However, i did find some mention that he work[s/ed] for an institution that was a former Valvo, and later Philips, research and education center in Hamburg. So it's time to get that old-fashioned pen and paper out and write a - what do we call an e-mail sent via the post office? Letter... tright... that was the word. With a bit of luck, we can even shed some light on that old claim the Interton VC4000 were 'the first and only video game console completely made in Germany' *cough*, who decided (and why!) to make video game chips like the 2636 and 2637 for a processor that was aimed at industrial applications, and why (if they had it already in their product line) it was soo poorly marketed whilst Philips themselves pushed an even inferior system that used Intel chips - read: VG 7000 aka Magnavox Odyssey^2. > - all programming is done at Assembly level - its very very > complicated and user unfriendly (its not like Atari Basic > Programming at all). No wonder its so hard to find. Uh... well... Atari's Basic Programming and Magnavox' Computer Intro! did not have RAM, or a cassette interface on them so they were cheaper. Yet they are relatively rare too, maybe even rarer if you count 'modules sold' against 'total number of consoles sold'. Not to speak about the ill-fated 'VCS computer keyboard' that added a bit of RAM, a keyboard, and a cassette interface to the Atari 2600. Even without the 'big videogame crash of 1984' (which can be debated how 'crashy' it really was in the U.S., and definitely didn't happen here in Germany) this thing didn't catch people's interest. It was just too- expensive, and much too limited in what you could do with it. That all these 'programming' carts were easier to understand didn't help them. The Elektor computer, however, had quite some fans- but as it was published in an electronics/DIY magazine, it was introduced to a completely different audience than a 'ready-made' game module. I guess the average Elektor reader was technically curious even if some were a bit computer sceptic. Video games, however, were considered entertainment. They were sold in TV shops, side-by-side with video recorders and -cassettes. Also, the audience was probably younger. Well... not usually the people that would work themselves into 2650 machine code. (my usual rant: 2650-based video games: The systems that could but never have. Too-little, too-late, and then only half-heartedly.) > The best part is the 100+ page manual which is page after > page of technical references. > I will be posting code examples etc. from the manual > shortly. Coolness! I'd love to see if the manual has any similarity to the Elektopr book by Paul Holmes (that is known to exist in an english translation) or maybe Adam Osborne's 'Introduction to micorprocessors'... :-) > As to its origin - the manual was clearly written by someone > in the UK (no engrish) who had full access to all the chip > spec sheets (Mullard etc. are credited) and I believe the > module was designed in the UK. Of course- the 2636 data sheet was freely available, e.g with the Elektor kits, or in the Signetics data books, and of course free meant free as in speach back then, not free as in beer. Data books and processsor manuals didn't cost much, but usually enough that you would only get one if you really needed it to make your living. The hobbyist usually resorted to second-source literature. Max #2002 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:18 am Subject: Re: VACS help > Can anyone tell me why a perfectly good program compiled at an org of > 0000h, will compile ok, but if I change the org to 2000h, I get a lot > of errors related to relative addressing? Can't I just change > the "org" statement? Or am I missing something like "section"? The problem is documented in the Coding Guide...it occurs in >4K ROMs, in the code beyond $2000...the workaround is to emit the required bytes directly as DBs... :-( Ami/WinArcadia 2.0 have been released...I've also made V3.1 of MULTIPLX, it uses your startup code but I had to still keep some of mine too to get it to work with MESS V2. I noticed the following issues: (a) PSU and PSL are not initialized to completely known states. (b) interrupts are not explicitly disabled - most or all ROMs do this. (c) PnFOOKEYS are read-only and thus do not require initalization. (d) PnPALLADIUM should be handled the same as PnFOOKEYS. (e) PITCH, RESOLUTION, BGCOLOUR, SPRITESnnCTRL and SPRITEnX/Y are not initialized; this is instead the responsibility of the user program. (f) Most or all ROMs do a wait for the start and end of vertical blank in their startup code. The PITCH register ($18FD) is read by BASEBALL (eg. instruction at $839), the game does a compare on it and relies on getting an accurate result to run correctly. So it must be read/write? I'm not sure whether the sprite/UDC imagery is read/write or write-only? And I'm not sure what unmapped bytes (eg. $1909) should return when read? #2003 From: pinwhiz@... Date: Wed Sep 27, 2006 2:16 am Subject: Re: Fountain/Acetronic/Radofin "Hobby Module" > WOW! Great find. And the keyoad overlays look > astonishingly familiar... like... the Elektor TV Games > Computer keyboard! I would not be too astonished > to find the very same monitor program inside... > something that i > suspected when i first heard about that module, but never > really believed they had really done. > FWIW, the hardware is trivial- there are Interton modules > that already > have RAM in them (just put the Elektor ROM in an > Interton-22 'Chess II' cart or something like that In the interests of "science" & the fact that I couldn't get the cartridge to work, I've opened it up and have put a picture of inards it here: http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/house/hobbym.jpg Ram wise it has 4 x 2114 RAM + the Main chip is Marked CN7781N 8005 (1980?). Nice socketed chips, so it now lives again thanks to replacing 2 of the RAM. Does anyone have any idea what sort of chip (Radofin Chess has a 2632 in it) the main one is? I have access to a dumper but need to know the specs. I've now had more a play with the Module and it sounds very similar to the Elektor. This one has program ram at locations 0900 to 0FFF and the Monitor is in ROM in location 0000 to 07FF. 07FF to 08FF is monitor scratchpad. 1F00 to 1FF is PVI RAM. Is there any online documentation on the Elektor monitor progam that I can compare against the Hobby Module manual to see if they match up? Thanks, Michael #2004 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:16 am Subject: Re: VACS help > "the workaround is to emit the required bytes directly as DBs." Yeh, I finally found that when I took a look at the VACS code. But I'm not sure I agree 100% with the answer. Yes, the workaround will work, but you would then have a single program that exceeds address $2000, that is, greater than 8k. And, the processor is designed to work with 4 banks of 8k proms, so VACS seems to be honoring this. So,in theory, you will never have an address above $2000; rather, you will have a second (or third or fourth) prom/program that starts $0000 again. That's why address A12 and/or A13 are tied to chip selects in the cartridge. (Also, of course, you have to watch out that the first prom doesn't access the hardware addresses, so you really only get about half of it, which means it's actually only 4k or so of usuable space) Which, then brings up the next question. Assuming I am loyal to this design and create multiple parts of the program that each begin at $0000, how do I load these into an emulator. Does the emulator do bank switching? I would tend to think not, or have you outsmarted me again? So, should I go with the workaround for the emulator and create a large program that therefore has dozens and dozens of workaround in it simply because VACS won't do it? (A lot of additional effort there!) And then create a second program that follows the real console's requirements? As regards to the issues: a) "PSU and PSL are not initialized to completely known states." No, not completely. I have initialized only those that seem, so far, to have an explicit effect on the initialization of other items. I have not yet fully investigated what all the bits should be configured as. b) "interrupts are not explicitly disabled - most or all ROMs do this." True, because the 2001 doesn't need that. I'm assuming that, perhaps, other consoles do? So, should this boot example become generic for multiple consoles, and thus include that function? And therefore, all other common functions? But what then of conflicts between consoles? Will any exist? Will that mean we need a boot for each console type, which defeats the concept of generic? comments? discussion? c) "PnFOOKEYS are read-only and thus do not require initalization." d) "PnPALLADIUM should be handled the same as PnFOOKEYS" Don't off hand recognize these items....let me look them up and "translate" them to my language. e) "PITCH, RESOLUTION, BGCOLOUR, SPRITESnnCTRL and SPRITEnX/Y are not initialized; this is instead the responsibility of the user program." I believe this is addressed in the boot code as a set of comments at the end, with examples of how to do that. f) "Most or all ROMs do a wait for the start and end of vertical blank in their startup code." Yes, noticed that. Not too sure how important it is depending upon the program that follows the boot section. Certainly, a lot, if not all, of the initialization can be done regardless of where the blanking is...only the program itself may (and probably should) implement that. g) "The PITCH register ($18FD) is read by BASEBALL" Thanks for this info. As I had mentioned earlier, I have not yet had a change to test all the UVI hardware locations. I guess we can either document the do's-vs-the-don'ts (and, what if the many consoles differ?), or simply decide to assume to treat them all as if they don't. This would guarantee proper results in both cases. > "Ami/WinArcadia 2.0 have been released" So I can stop using the unofficial beta, and start using a release version? > "...I've also made V3.1 of MULTIPLX" I assume that this is in the Examples group? I'll check it out this week. Thanks for your support. Charlie #2005 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Sep 27, 2006 8:56 am Subject: Re: FLAG line woes; was: Emulator update newer Never checked for hard wiring..... But, it DOES look like the Flag pin on the processor intercepts or replaces one of the NTSC video signals (So, the schematic is wrong?) Thanks Charlie #2006 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Sep 27, 2006 5:59 pm Subject: Re: VACS help >> "the workaround is to emit the required bytes directly as DBs." > > Yeh, I finally found that when I took a look at the VACS code. But > I'm not sure I agree 100% with the answer. Yes, the workaround will > work, but you would then have a single program that exceeds address > $2000, that is, greater than 8k. And, the processor is designed to > work with 4 banks of 8k proms, so VACS seems to be honoring this. > So,in theory, you will never have an address above $2000; rather, you > will have a second (or third or fourth) prom/program that starts > $0000 again. That's why address A12 and/or A13 are tied to chip > selects in the cartridge. (Also, of course, you have to watch out > that the first prom doesn't access the hardware addresses, so you > really only get about half of it, which means it's actually only 4k > or so of usuable space) Which, then brings up the next question. > Assuming I am loyal to this design and create multiple parts of the > program that each begin at $0000, how do I load these into an > emulator. Does the emulator do bank switching? I would tend to > think not, or have you outsmarted me again? So, should I go with the > workaround for the emulator and create a large program that therefore > has dozens and dozens of workaround in it simply because VACS won't > do it? (A lot of additional effort there!) And then create a second > program that follows the real console's requirements? The workaround is for the assembler, not the emulator. The way the emulators see things, the whole program is loaded at once, and is not "swapped in" and "swapped out". But the "page" fields of the IAR are emulated, eg. it won't allow execution to flow across a page boundary without an explicit jump. The same programs should work on both the real console and the emulator. I guess you could assemble the program in parts and use a "join" command to make them into one file. The current .BIN format that it used has the whole game in one file, and the emulator takes care of loading the $0000..$0FFF of the file into $0000..$0FFF of the Arcadia, and $1000..$1FFF of the file into $2000..$2FFF of the Arcadia, etc. But I could support a "segmented" format, eg. you would have HOBO.0 with the first 4K of the game, then HOBO.1 with the second 4K of the game, if that would help? > As regards to the issues: > a) "PSU and PSL are not initialized to completely known states." > No, not completely. I have initialized only those that seem, so far, > to have an explicit effect on the initialization of other items. I > have not yet fully investigated what all the bits should be > configured as. Most ROMs seem to clear the PSL and PSU and then set the II (Interrupt Inhibit) and the unsigned/arithmetic compare (COM) bits. > b) "interrupts are not explicitly disabled - most or all ROMs do > this." > True, because the 2001 doesn't need that. I'm assuming that, > perhaps, other consoles do? So, should this boot example become > generic for multiple consoles, and thus include that function? And > therefore, all other common functions? But what then of conflicts > between consoles? Will any exist? Will that mean we need a boot for > each console type, which defeats the concept of generic? comments? > discussion? It would definitely be better if it works with all console variants. It shouldn't need much if any conditional code. > d) "PnPALLADIUM should be handled the same as PnFOOKEYS" > Don't off hand recognize these items....let me look them up > and "translate" them to my language. They are the controller-key inputs. $1903 and $1907 should be handled the same as $1900..$1902 and $1904..$1906. These are the extra keys which are not found on an Emerson or MPT-03, only on the Palladium VCG. So I guess it doesn't really matter for an Emerson-only program...However I wouldn't bother initializing any of the inputs, I assume they must be read-only? > g)"The PITCH register ($18FD) is read by BASEBALL " > Thanks for this info. As I had mentioned earlier, I have not yet had > a change to test all the UVI hardware locations. I guess we can > either document the do's-vs-the-don'ts (and, what if the many > consoles differ?), or simply decide to assume to > treat them all as if they don't. This would guarantee proper results > in both cases. Yeah, it seems like it's write-only on Emerson and read/write on other variants? I wonder what results would be had by running the available version (which is the Emerson version) of BASEBALL on your RAM cart. If it's having trouble reading PITCH the symptom is colour problems (some foreground colours turning green, other foreground colours turning white) momentarily when the players are moving into position. I would say that it is read/write, except that your test program seems to indicate that it is write-only...? Strange... > "Ami/WinArcadia 2.0 have been released" > So I can stop using the unofficial beta, and start using a release > version? Yes. > "...I've also made V3.1 of MULTIPLX" > I assume that this is in the Examples group? I'll check it out this > week. Yes. By the way, does anyone here read Retro Gamer magazine? If so, check out issue #27, page 20. The screenshot of Hobo is awful (taken with Robson emulator) but at least the text is positive... :-) #2007 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Wed Sep 27, 2006 10:20 pm Subject: "TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor" Book In 2002 Stefan Piasecki purchased a German book called "TV-Spiel-Computer - Spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor" by Paul Holmes. The translated title is "TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor." This was a book on how to build a computer using the 2650 CPU. The original version of this book was written in English; we never could find a copy of it though. See message #576 to see what I'm talking about. Did the book ever surface? I've searched the archives and I can't find out what the book was called in English. Could someone please help me out? I KNOW that I looked for it and I could have SWORN that I posted about it, but I just can't find it anyplace. Adam #2008 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Sep 28, 2006 10:32 am Subject: Re: VACS help > But I could support a "segmented" format No, don't bother..I just wanted to know for my own use. > $1000..$1FFF of the file into $2000..$2FFF So, the second block of program created by a normal compile, will be shifted up by the emulator, so it doesn't interfere with the $1xxx hardware block? > Most ROMs seem to clear the PSL and PSU and then set the II > (Interrupt > Inhibit) and the unsigned/arithmetic compare (COM) bits. I will update the boot to reflect this > These are the extra keys which are not found on an Emerson" Ha! That's why I keep seeing notes/code that don't fully make sense to me! But it should definitely be covered by the boot (see next comment) > However I wouldn't bother initializing any of the inputs I understand the reasoning fully; I did this specifically so that no keypress/controller action would be registered before the program specifically looked at it. Part habit, part experience. > The PITCH register ($18FD) is read by BASEBALL...it seems like > it's write-only on Emerson Haven't verified this yet, but it's on my list. #2009 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:29 am Subject: Re: VACS help > So, the second block of program created by a normal compile, will be > shifted up by the emulator, so it doesn't interfere with the $1xxx > hardware block? Yes, $1000..$1FFF area is never ROM. Programs are loaded as follows: $0000..$0FFF in file -> $0000..$0FFF in memory $1000..$1FFF in file -> $2000..$2FFF in memory $2000..$2FFF in file -> $4000..$4FFF in memory I don't know where programs larger than 12K would be loaded, as there aren't any (but in theory maybe up to 28K ROMs could be supported? Or even 30K if the $1000..$17FF area was also used?). #2010 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Sep 29, 2006 3:39 pm Subject: Multiplex example update Multiplex example, latest test update FYI: 1. I can finally see proper stuff clearly on the 2001 console 2. The car is moving automatically again, diagonally down left to right; but this time there is NO control of it whatsoever. 3. The console top row is car, blob with 2 legs, double arrow, alien face. 4. The console bottom row is rocket, headphones, house with 4 legs, tank. 5. The screen is one solid color (both border and background) and the text is readable. 6. Flag on/off screen colors matches in both emulator and console. 7. Cannot verify any sprite colors yet. Charlie #2011 From: "mc71de" Date: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:14 pm Subject: Re: "TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor" Book Hi Adam and ev'rybody else, --- "Adam Trionfo" wrote: > > In 2002 Stefan Piasecki purchased a German book called > "TV-Spiel-Computer - Spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor" by Paul Holmes. Let me sum it up for the 'newbies': ;-) This is what we call 'the Elektor book'- hobby electronics magazine Elektor used (and still does sometimes today) to issue paperbacks for projects that would take too much space in the mag, For the Elektor TV Spiel Computer, e.g., this would mean that there was a schematic and the board layots in the mag, but the monitor program was only described in said book or the paperwork that would come with the parts kit. Bibliography: P. Holmes TV Spielcomputer - Spielen mit dem Mikroprozessor Elektor Verlag GmbH, Gangelt, 1982 ISBN 3-921608-26-0 (the english-language-commented assembly listing of the monitor program that was part of the book can be found in our files area, as well as the binary image...) > The original version of this book was written in English; Bibliography for the english version: P. Holmes The TV Games Computer: an exciting introduction to microprocessors Elektor Publ., Canterbury, 1981 ISBN 0-905705-08-4 (i just notice the english version is 16 pages shorter than the german one) > we never could find a copy of it though. Define 'find' please ;-) I did *locate* a copy of the english version in a library in Hannover (Germany) but never got to *get* it and copy a few pages. Sometimes life gets busy and hobbies must stand back... *sigh* FWIW, there are also some copies located in libraries in the UK. > I could have SWORN that I posted about it, but I just can't find it > anyplace. Yup, we talked about that. And it came up again when Stefan did the interview with Paul Holmes who was not just the author of that book but the chief editor/publisher of Elektuur in The Netherlands (which is the mother company of all national Elektor publishing houses) Max #2012 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Fri Sep 29, 2006 7:48 pm Subject: Re: "TV Game Computer - How to Play with Microprocessor" Book Max wrote: > Bibliography for the english version: > > P. Holmes > The TV Games Computer: an exciting introduction to microprocessors > Elektor Publ., Canterbury, 1981 > ISBN 0-905705-08-4 THANKS! That's exactly what I was looking for! > FWIW, there are also some copies located in libraries in the UK. I just checked Amazon, and there was a used copy of it-- so I ordered it! I've been interested in buying books on building computers. These kinds of books are not publiched anymore (as far as I can tell). The latest one that I could find was published in 1995 and is based on the 8088. Again, THANKS, Max! Adam #2013 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Sep 30, 2006 7:01 am Subject: File space I have deleted my recent files (BootInit) from the files section, with the intention of uploading a set of 2001 example files. However, even with my files deleted, there is not enough space. My new file size is 50K zipped. Is there an alternate upload area, or are any old files safe to delete, or....? Thanks Charlie #2014 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sat Sep 30, 2006 6:10 am Subject: Re: Multiplex example update > Multiplex example, latest test update FYI: > 1. I can finally see proper stuff clearly on the 2001 console > 2. The car is moving automatically again, diagonally down left to > right; but this time there is NO control of it whatsoever. > 3. The console top row is car, blob with 2 legs, double arrow, alien > face. > 4. The console bottom row is rocket, headphones, house with 4 legs, > tank. > 5. The screen is one solid color (both border and background) and the > text is readable. > 6. Flag on/off screen colors matches in both emulator and console. > 7. Cannot verify any sprite colors yet. Sounds like it's working perfectly now, except the paddle controls; I will rewrite that part... #2015 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sat Sep 30, 2006 10:10 pm Subject: Re: File space > I have deleted my recent files (BootInit) from the files section, with > the intention of uploading a set of 2001 example files. However, even > with my files deleted, there is not enough space. My new file size is > 50K zipped. > Is there an alternate upload area, Yes, you could email them to me (jrj76 AT optusnet DOT com DOT au) and I could host them at EA2001 Central... > or are any old files safe to delete, or....? Yes, they are all safe to delete, as the whole file archive is mirrored at EA2001 Central. #2016 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Oct 1, 2006 5:31 am Subject: Re: File space > Yes, you could email them to me (jrj76 AT optusnet DOT com DOT au) > and I could host them at EA2001 Central Yes, you have mentione that before, and, as you certainly know, I have done so previously. But I hesitate to just assume that Central is some kind of black hole into which I can just pour my "tons" of stuff without your specific say-so. I'll email you the files in the next few days. I also have the schematic for the 2001 controllers; I'll send that as a JPEG or BMP file. Thanks Charlie #2017 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 5, 2006 4:17 pm Subject: Received "TV Games Computer" Book - In English I have already recieved the english book "The TV Games Computer, An Exciting Introduction to Microprocessors" by Paul Holmes (published by Elektor Publishers Ltd.). I just ordered it the other day from the U.K.-- and I live in the U.S. (New Mexico)-- I can't beleive it came so QUICKLY! If anyone has any questions about it, then I'll take a look into the book. Adam Trionfo #2018 From: "Adam Trionfo" Date: Thu Oct 5, 2006 4:18 pm Subject: Received "TV Games Computer" Book - In English The "TV Games Computer" book has a chapter about programs that were available on tape. Was the tape "with 20Kbytes on one tape" ever archived? The programs on the tape are: 1) Mastermind 2) Code Breaker 3) Reversi 4) Amazone 5) Space Shoot-Out 6) Four In A Row 7) Four In A Row (Version 2) 8) Jackpot 9) Surround 10) Shapes 11) Piano 12) PVI Programming 13) Disassembler 14) Test Patterns 15) Lotto Does anybody know anything about this? Adam #2019 From: "Office" Date: Fri Oct 6, 2006 1:15 am Subject: AW: Received "TV Games Computer" Book - In English I own 3 of these tapes: ESS-007, ESS-009 and ESS-010. I have also the german version of the book. ESS-007 is the tape from your list. Attached is a picture of the cassette tapes. /Attachment: (image/jpeg) elektor.jpg [not stored]/ #2021 From: "minuous2" Date: Mon Oct 9, 2006 7:54 pm Subject: Re: Received "TV Games Computer" Book - In English > I have already recieved the english book "The TV Games Computer, An > Exciting Introduction to Microprocessors" by Paul Holmes (published by > Elektor Publishers Ltd.). I just ordered it the other day from the > U.K.-- and I live in the U.S. (New Mexico)-- I can't beleive it came so > QUICKLY! If anyone has any questions about it, then I'll take a look > into the book. Now scanned and available from Adam's site: http://www.ballyalley.com/misc_docs/tv_computer_book.html or from EA2001 Central: http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/ #2022 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Oct 11, 2006 5:50 am Subject: Re: Received "TV Games Computer" Book - In English Hi Adam, congratulations for your find... funny enough, i did the same search a few weeks ago and the book didn't show up ;-) And of course thanks for scanning and sharing. I know what it takes to do so. Now we can, finally, solve the mystery of Chapter 19 ;o) For the newcomers: back in November '02, we were trying to translate the table of contents of the german edition. It went quite well- until we came tzo the sub-caption of chapter 19, The Sound Generator. In german, it reads "Orgel, Explosionen, 'Lock- und Bewunderungspfiff'". OK, that's organ, explosions, the last one is 'whistle of admiration'... but what the heck is 'locken' in english? Try to attract? To bait? To woo? Birdcall- as- in- male- bird- sings- to- find- female- bird? None of that really fit, and i was very interested what the author came up with, back then... ...and the solution is: "organ, explosions, 'wolf call'" Duh. Gone are the associations with chirping birds and gigolos whistling after short-skirted girls. > The "TV Games Computer" book has a chapter about programs that were > available on tape. Was the tape "with 20Kbytes on one tape" ever archived? I do have ESS-7, ESS-9 and ESS-10 too. Some (long-ish...) time ago, i was contacted by the guy who brushed up the MESS VC4000 driver to its current state, and he said he had tape ESS-8 and (i think) the records. For those not familiar with Elektor magazine: ESS means 'Elektor Software Service' and is just that: Software for their diverse computer projects, at first on 45-rpm, vinyl, single records, later on tape or as programmed chips depending on the project. For the TV games computer, there were over the years two records (of which i forgot the ESS number and that were replaced by ESS-7 tape) and ESS-7 upto ESS-10 tapes. Or was that ESS-7 and ESS-9 upto ESS-11? Have to look that up, too. All other ESS were for the SC/MP computer and other nifty gadgets ;o) Were these archived? Well... i recorded my tapes as .wav files and still have these, but never got to convert them to binary. I have a biffed-up version of tapetool that theoretically should read these files, but it didn't run as is on my old linux box. So i put it aside 'to do when i can dedicate a few hours for thoroughly working on it' which sadly didn't happen until now :-( Neither did i 'clean the .wav-s' as you do on the Astrocade, which would leave them as wav files but make them small at least as .zip-files. So, currently i have a bunch of large wav files for three of the four tapes. ESS-7 recorded at 8 kHz mono is 4.7 MB, one snippet (which shpuld be one single program?) is 700k in length, or 400k as .tgz... for 2k of code. Somehow, that doesn't seem right. ;-) Max #2023 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:05 am Subject: Re: File space Hi Charlie, --- "charliee1151" wrote: > > I have deleted my recent files (BootInit) from the files section > However, even with my files deleted, there is not enough space. I did a start and pulled the additional graphics of the UVI manual. One day, these should be mounteded into the UVI manual, anyway. (another of these 'don't want to do it in a hurry' things...) Looking around, the biggest space hogs in the file area would be: - the elektor monitor listing, which may now be obsolete by Adams scans that are IMHO of better quality and makes much more sense together with the rest of the book. Adam? - the archive of MESS v0.56.1 or something, which Adam compiles with debugger support and, according to it's license, can't be put on an 'open' web site. Question is: is this still of much use, as there is still the nasty 'Lenknen' bug in it (fixed in current MESS) and might have other annoyances in the CPU driver. Adam? Charlie? Anyone? - some temporary scanned images that are only there to be typed and deleted. Honestly, I am lost how far that effort has gotten... - emulator-related files by Gavin, which i don't understand why these were posted here in the first place... Gavin has his own web site so it should not be a problem to host them there? Just my .02 Max. #2024 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Oct 11, 2006 6:49 am Subject: Re: File space Thanks for this response. I of course have no knowledge of what is proper/applicable or not proper/applicable to delete. I have "upped" my files to Arcadia Central; they're in the Examples download group under (you guessed it) the Charlie subdirectory. Note that my examples are specifically 2001-centric. If/when desired, I can certainly also put them here when space becomes available. Thanks again. Charlie PS All: I'm seriously thinking of dumping my legacy game collection, including 2 2001's, an intellivisiou, I think a tandyvision, a colecovision, etc. Probably two medium size boxes of stuff. Any idea what would be a good home? #2025 From: Russ Perry Jr Date: Wed Oct 11, 2006 7:30 am Subject: Re: Re: Received "TV Games Computer" Book - In English > For the newcomers: back in november '02, we were trying to translate > the table of contents of the german edition. It went quite well- until > we came tzo the sub-caption of chapter 19, The Sound Generator. In > german, it reads "Orgel, Explosionen, 'Lock- und Bewunderungspfiff'". > OK, that's organ, explosions, the last one is 'whistle of > admiration'... but what the heck is 'locken' in english? Try to > attract? To bait? To woo? Birdcall- as- in- male- bird- sings- to- > find- female- bird? None of that really fit, and i was very interested > what the author came up with, back then... > > ...and the solition is: "organ, explosions, 'wolf call'" > > Duh. Gone are the associations with chirping birds and gigolos > whistling after short-skirted girls. Actually, I'd say that that is EXACTLY what I means, and a better translation would be "wolf-whistle". I think what the author came up with back then was a bad translation. -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 slapdash@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// #2030 From: "minuous2" Date: Wed Dec 27, 2006 12:14 pm Subject: Unmapped memory areas Apparently the TESTER program (in the Examples Pack) shows that the supposedly unmapped addresses $1400 and $1E00, for example, are read/write. Do these calls get mapped to a different address, or is there indeed more RAM available than previously thought? #2031 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Jan 3, 2007 11:56 am Subject: Re: Unmapped memory areas Hi all, --- "minuous2" wrote: > > Apparently the TESTER program (in the Examples Pack) shows that the > supposedly unmapped addresses $1400 and $1E00, for example, are > read/write. Please be more pecific here: What brand of console? This ist *very* important with everything Arcadia, as i will show in just a minute. What does 'TESTER' do exactly? Not everyone is familiar with it or knows where to find it, and it might go offline one day- so people who read your mail in ten years cannot take profit anymore. So IIRC you have an Emerson Arcadia 2001 (NTSC, digital joysticks) and TESTER can be found here: http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/examples.zip The 'reserved area' test goes like this: ;reserved area $1000..$17FF stra,r1 $1400 ;try to write 1 to it loda,r0 $1400 ;read it back stra,r0 $1ADE ;save the result (should be 1 if read/write) stra,r2 $1400 ;try to write 2 to it loda,r0 $1400 ;read it back stra,r0 $1ADF ;save the result (should be 2 if read/write) eorz r0 stra,r0 $1400 ;fix it up to a reasonable value This is done at memory address $1400, $1940, $19e0 and $1e00; the values read back are written into unique positions of screen RAM in the $1a00 area. This shows two problems: - whole areas of up to 2KiB are tested by peeking one single location. This might do to tell a Palladium from an Emerson. But the conclusion is misleading upto plain wrong if you don't already know what is there - further research is necessary. Especially for $1boo..$1bff. - after the test, a 'reasonable value' is written back into the LUT (location under test) - but why? In fact, i suspect the $1e00 test is writing to $1a00... now go figure what would happen if you leave the value at 02. > Do these calls get mapped to a different address, or is > there indeed more RAM available than previously thought? (you know that there's another 512 bytes of RAM physically present but not accessible in all cnsoles but the very first Palladiums?) I looked at the Palladium schematic, and at the schematic in the Emerson service manual, and found the following: - in the Palladium, the CS line of the UVI chip is active at $1800..$1bff. So, with the schematic given it is not possible to get at the UVI and RAM at other addreses. One should see an 'open bus' if viewing these areas with a HEX monitor or something. - in the Emerson, the CS line is just tied to one address bus line- supposedly A12, as is also shown in the UVI data sheet. Please note that this is just 'the other side of the medal' of using A12 as -CS (note the inverted sign!) for the cartridge ROM which has caused quite some headache in the past. Now, what does that mean? It means that the 'canonical' $1800..$1bff UVI/RAM area is not only mirrored four times at $1000, $1400, $1800 and $1c00. This whole block would also appear at $3000, $5000 and $7000. Folllowers of The Cult Of The Mythical Thwenty-Eight Kilobyte will note that this narrows the available address space for rom cartridges to 16 KiB, so this work-around to an advertizing trick does not work anymore, either... [insert favourite curse word here] whereas on the palladium machines, you can disable the UVI/RAM from the vcartridge port and have the compolete address space at your disposal. Of course that was never done- but who cares? Suggestions for a MiRROR TESTER: - write screen codes for '1000' to address $1200 ff., for '1400' to $1604 ff., for '1c00' to $1e00 ff. If my conclusion from the schemaic is right, this should be equivalent to writing '100014001c00' to $1a00 ff. thus showing said string at the screen just as TESTER does with it's results. Same for the suspected doubles at $3000 etc. - write some test for the $1b00 area. Copy it to screen ram, display hex values, perform the R/W test from TESTER at a few locations... see if $1b00 is a mirror of the $1900 area. tied to a fixed value by UVI, or totally 'open'- whatever it would take to detect that on a 2650 system. - do these tests on Emerson Arcadia, TVG2000, Hanimex 2650 (should give same results, but you never know...), on early and late Palladiums (as i said: these should have no UVI mirrors), and on samples of the other machines (where i would be quite surprised to find more elaborate decoding than in the Arcadia, but again: you never know...). Happy tinkering! -mc #2032 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Jan 3, 2007 12:45 pm Subject: Missing links - linking the... Hi all! ...no, not linking the misses, but linking the keypads. I think this hasn't made it to this list yet- my appologies if i missed it. Please look at this: http://www.iainsinclair.com/past/palladium.html and note the following: - this design clearly shows the linkable joypads as we know them from the Palladium machines, overly-self confident advertized as 'connect the keypads and get a full-featured keyboard' - 'Video Dictionary' does just that. and it is awful to use - now how would they have added numbers to make a *real* computer out of this? Don't get me wrong, the chipset would allow for this, and the schematics of a UVI-based home computer shown in the data sheet are not pure fairy-tales. But... ...back to Iain Sinclair: - some of you might recognize that *this* is not the design finally ued on the Palladium... yet it looks stangely similar to the O3 prototype. Doesn't it? (no, don't worry. I won't tell the weird story of Philips and their half-hearted attempt to challenge, and not to challenge, the videogame market- and their ultimate fauilure to do each) - the line 'manufacurer' reads 'Promotors LTD, hong kong'. Now who is that? Never heard of... and especially puzzling as the product ois clearly identified as 'Palladium games console'. Wasn't Palladium thought to be just a brand name of Quelle, one of Germanys biggest mail-oder houses, for their technical products? A badge slapped on whatever cheap no-name product they (Quelle) saw fit for their catalog? BTW, if the name 'Sinclair' sounds familiar: The site doesn't tell if and how Iain was related to Clive Sinclair of Timex 100/ Sinclair ZX81 fame. But there are lquite a few designs shown done by Iain for one of Clives products. Ironically enough, the UVI chipset could have easily outruled Sinclair's ZX81, and maybe even the ZX Spectrum, had Philips or one of it's customers taken the challenge and developed a nice little BASIC home computer from the UVI chipset. The Video Dictionary ROM chips i have are marked with production dates in late '82, my older Palladium IIRC from spring '83. At that time, the Spectrum was struggling with delay after delay and waiting lists of many months, and the Commodore C64 was barely peeking around the corner, plagued with a price tag height somewhere between the Matterhorn and the Mount Everest. Oh well. Too little, too late. *sigh* -mc #2033 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Jan 3, 2007 1:18 pm Subject: Re: Re: Unmapped memory areas ----- Original Message ----- From: "mc71de" > To: > Sent: Thursday, January 04, 2007 6:56 AM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Unmapped memory areas > Hi all, > > --- "minuous2" wrote: > > > > Apparently the TESTER program (in the Examples Pack) shows that > the > > supposedly unmapped addresses $1400 and $1E00, for example, > are > > read/write. > > Please be more pecific here: What brand of console? This ist *very* > important with everything Arcadia, as i will show in just a minute. What > does 'TESTER' do exactly? Not everyone is familiar with it or knows > where to find it, and it might go offline one day- so people who read > your mail in ten years cannot take profit anymore. It's all at Arcadia Central, of course :-) Basically TESTER does some operations which I'm not sure what the result will be. Running it on real consoles should reveal details about the exact behaviour of the console. There are various tests of the power-up configuration, memory map, timing, DMA, and so forth. Could also be useful for testing emulators. There's several other tests it could do but doesn't, these are listed at the end of the source code. > So IIRC you have an Emerson Arcadia 2001 (NTSC, digital joysticks) > and TESTER can be found here: > > http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/examples.zip Yes and yes. Well, all I personally have is a pair of MPT-03s that don't work. But Charlie has an American Emerson Arcadia 2001; that is what TESTER was run on. > The 'reserved area' test goes like this: > > ;reserved area $1000..$17FF > stra,r1 $1400 ;try to write 1 to it > loda,r0 $1400 ;read it back > stra,r0 $1ADE ;save the result (should be 1 if read/write) > stra,r2 $1400 ;try to write 2 to it > loda,r0 $1400 ;read it back > stra,r0 $1ADF ;save the result (should be 2 if read/write) > eorz r0 > stra,r0 $1400 ;fix it up to a reasonable value > > This is done at memory address $1400, $1940, $19e0 and $1e00; > the values read back are written into unique positions of screen RAM > in the $1a00 area. > > This shows two problems: > > - whole areas of up to 2KiB are tested by peeking one single location. > This might do to tell a Palladium from an Emerson. But the conclusion > is misleading upto plain wrong if you don't already know what is there > - further research is necessary. Especially for $1boo..$1bff. Charlie was transcribing the results by hand, I didn't want to give him RSI :-) > - after the test, a 'reasonable value' is written back into the LUT > (location under test) - but why? In fact, i suspect the $1e00 test is > writing to $1a00... now go figure what would happen if you leave the > value at 02. Yes, in hindsight it was probably unnecessary to set them afterwards. > > Do these calls get mapped to a different address, or is > > there indeed more RAM available than previously thought? > > (you know that there's another 512 bytes of RAM physically present > but not accessible in all cnsoles but the very first Palladiums?) I wasn't aware of that. So that would make 1K for the very first Palladiums, and 1.5K for everything else? > I looked at the Palladium schematic, and at the schematic in the > Emerson service manual, and found the following: > > - in the Palladium, the CS line of the UVI chip is active at $1800..$1bff. > So, with the schematic given it is not possible to get at the UVI and > RAM at other addreses. One should see an 'open bus' if viewing > these areas with a HEX monitor or something. > > - in the Emerson, the CS line is just tied to one address bus line- > supposedly A12, as is also shown in the UVI data sheet. Please note > that this is just 'the other side of the medal' of using A12 as -CS (note > the inverted sign!) for the cartridge ROM which has caused quite > some headache in the past. Now, what does that mean? It means > that the 'canonical' $1800..$1bff UVI/RAM area is not only mirrored > four times at $1000, $1400, $1800 and $1c00. This whole block > would also appear at $3000, $5000 and $7000. By "this whole block" do you mean $1000..$1FFF? So that the $1800..$1BFF area would be mirrored a total of 16 times on an Emerson? But only available at $1800..$1BFF on a Palladium? > Folllowers of The Cult Of The Mythical Thwenty-Eight Kilobyte will note > that this narrows the available address space for rom cartridges to 16 > KiB, so this work-around to an advertizing trick does not work > anymore, either... [insert favourite curse word here] whereas on the > palladium machines, you can disable the UVI/RAM from the vcartridge > port and have the compolete address space at your disposal. Of > course that was never done- but who cares? > > Suggestions for a MiRROR TESTER: > > - write screen codes for '1000' to address $1200 ff., for '1400' to > $1604 ff., for '1c00' to $1e00 ff. If my conclusion from the schemaic is > right, this should be equivalent to writing '100014001c00' to $1a00 ff. > thus showing said string at the screen just as TESTER does with it's > results. Same for the suspected doubles at $3000 etc. > > - write some test for the $1b00 area. Copy it to screen ram, display > hex values, perform the R/W test from TESTER at a few locations... > see if $1b00 is a mirror of the $1900 area. tied to a fixed value by UVI, > or totally 'open'- whatever it would take to detect that on a 2650 > system. OK, I'll do this, it might not be for awhile though... (weeks) > - do these tests on Emerson Arcadia, TVG2000, Hanimex 2650 > (should give same results, but you never know...), on early and late > Palladiums (as i said: these should have no UVI mirrors), and on > samples of the other machines (where i would be quite surprised to > find more elaborate decoding than in the Arcadia, but again: you > never know...). The programs is available, people with RAM carts just need to run it on their console and note the output. >BTW, if the name 'Sinclair' sounds familiar: The site doesn't tell if and how Iain was related to Clive Sinclair of Timex 100/ Sinclair ZX81 fame. But there are lquite a few designs shown done by Iain for one of Clives products. Have you tried emailing him? Iain, I mean, not Sir Clive :-) It could yield interesting results... Regards James #2034 From: "mc71de" Date: Wed Jan 3, 2007 6:58 pm Subject: Re: Unmapped memory areas --- "James Jacobs" wrote: > Basically TESTER does some operations which I'm not sure what > the result will be. Running it on real consoles should reveal details > about the exact behaviour of the console. I understand- i just wanted to know *what exactly* the test does, and what it doesn't ;o) > Charlie has an American Emerson Arcadia 2001; that is what TESTER > was run on. Ah, ok. > > Charlie was transcribing the results by hand, I didn't want to give him RSI ...understandable ;o) > > - after the test, a 'reasonable value' is written back into the LUT > Yes, in hindsight it was probably unnecessary to set them afterwards. I think it even 'covered it's traces'- i don't have the screen code chart at hand, but i think a spurious $02 might have caught some attention ;-) > > (you know that there's another 512 bytes of RAM physically present > > but not accessible in all cnsoles but the very first Palladiums?) > > I wasn't aware of that. So that would make 1K for the very first Palladiums, > and 1.5K for everything else? No, sorry... i meant: - old Palladium had 512 Byte of RAM, packaged iirc in 4 chips of (256x4) bits each - or was it 16 chips of 256x1 bit? - newer Palladiums, machines that use the same board like Arcadia 2001, TVG 2000 (all these i know) and the other makes and models like MPT-03 (these i suspect, mainly from their release date) - all these had (physically) 1024 Bytes, in two chips of 1024x4 bits each. Highest address bit tied to ground, so no access possible... unless one hacks some kind of bank switching into the console ;-) The reason behind this: When the system was planned, 256x4 chips were cheaper than their 1Kx4 counterparts. The data sheet even shows a configuration with only *one* 256-byte memory bank. Of course such a system could only run in low res mode. But as time went on, the 1Kx4 chips became cheaper, and the 256x4 finally unavailable. Not uncommon in itself, things like that can be seen on the Commodore VIC-20, the C-64, the Atari 800XL... but as the UVI (and systems based on it) aims at the low-cost market, it cannot make use of the bigger chips. > > > that the 'canonical' $1800..$1bff UVI/RAM area is not only > > mirrored four times at $1000, $1400, $1800 and $1c00. > > This whole block would also appear at $3000, $5000 and $7000. > > By "this whole block" do you mean $1000..$1FFF? Yep. > So that the $1800..$1BFF area would be mirrored a total of 16 times on an Emerson? But only available at $1800..$1BFF on a Palladium? That's how i understand the schematic, yes. > > > Suggestions for a MiRROR TESTER: > OK, I'll do this, it might not be for awhile though... (weeks) No worries- i dream of tweaking the 'Elektor' TV games computer BIOS to work on the UVI, of course without cassette interface. Sounds easy enough, yet i haven't done it for some four years now... ;o) > The programs is available, people with RAM carts just need > to run it on their console and note the output. EEPROMS are nice too (nicely fit into EPROM carts if you happen to have one, and can be electrically erased- if you have the equipment, that is *g*) Oh well, time to dig out that stuff again and get myself moving... > Have you tried emailing him? Iain, I mean, not Sir Clive :-) > It could yield interesting results... No, just found the link the other evening. FWIW, Sir Clive seems to be quite amused that people still remember his home computers, let alone write emulators and develop extension modules... -mc #2035 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Jan 3, 2007 11:02 pm Subject: Re: Re: Unmapped memory areas > > > (you know that there's another 512 bytes of RAM physically > present > > > but not accessible in all cnsoles but the very first Palladiums?) > > > > I wasn't aware of that. So that would make 1K for the very first > Palladiums, > > and 1.5K for everything else? > > No, sorry... i meant: > > - old Palladium had 512 Byte of RAM, packaged iirc in 4 chips of > (256x4) bits each - or was it 16 chips of 256x1 bit? > > - newer Palladiums, machines that use the same board like Arcadia > 2001, TVG 2000 (all these i know) and the other makes and models > like MPT-03 (these i suspect, mainly from their release date) - all > these had (physically) 1024 Bytes, in two chips of 1024x4 bits each. > Highest address bit tied to ground, so no access possible... unless > one hacks some kind of bank switching into the console ;-) > > The reason behind this: When the system was planned, 256x4 chips > were cheaper than their 1Kx4 counterparts. The data sheet even > shows a configuration with only *one* 256-byte memory bank. Of > course such a system could only run in low res mode. I would think that a 512-byte system could only run in low-res mode, and a 256-byte system would be just about completely useless. This is based on the following calculations: 93 bytes for UVI registers, excluding screen display matrix 208 bytes for low-res display, or 416 bytes for high-res display 84 bytes of "non-UVI" RAM. which gives 385 bytes as a minimum for low-res mode (assuming the games for such a system don't use the $1A00..$1ACF region as RAM), or 593 bytes as a minimum for high-res. Regards James #2036 From: "mc71de" Date: Sun Jan 7, 2007 10:26 pm Subject: Re: Unmapped memory areas --- "James Jacobs" wrote: > > - old Palladium had 512 Byte of RAM, > > - newer Palladiums [et al] had (physically) 1024 Bytes > I would think that a 512-byte system could only run in low-res mode, and a > 256-byte system would be just about completely useless. Well... one cannot be too critical with his wording on these beasts ;-) I was talking about the amount of external RAM ($18xx and $1axx area) somewhat ignoring the UVI-internal registers at $1900. Of course these always exist, are sprite and UDG ram really R/W so they can double as scratch pad if you don't need 'em for display purposes? (yes, i know... it's *me* who has the data sheet online...) These are the pitfalls of me being a hardware person more than a programmer ;o) > This is based on the > following calculations: > > 93 bytes for UVI registers, excluding screen display matrix > 208 bytes for low-res display, or 416 bytes for high-res display > 84 bytes of "non-UVI" RAM. Go tell that to the Interton (PVI) programmers. 32 + 2 + 2 + 1 bytes of scratch pad ram. Thirty-seven total. And according to my literature, the object definition registers might be write-only... otherwise that would be another 40 bytes. That is not exactly what i call much space. Consequently, the chess and checkers carts came with some nifty on-board ram.to make them work at all... -mc #2037 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Jan 9, 2007 2:18 am Subject: Re: Re: Unmapped memory areas So it looks like we now have a complete memory map, with the exception of the $1B00..$1BFF area. I've written TESTER2 (in the Examples Pack, at Arcadia Central: http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/examples.zip), it does most of the tests you mentioned. As usual for these types of programs someone will need to run it on their system and note the results (text output, and colour of final screen), it should answer many questions. I'm releasing Ami/WinArcadia 2.31 tonight, they will support ROMs up to 16K (up from 12K) (not that any exist), and emulate RAM mirroring. Regards James ----- Original Message ----- From: "mc71de" > To: > Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 5:26 PM Subject: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Unmapped memory areas > Hi again, > > --- "James Jacobs" wrote: > > > > - old Palladium had 512 Byte of RAM, > > > > - newer Palladiums [et al] had (physically) 1024 Bytes > > > I would think that a 512-byte system could only run in low-res > mode, and a > > 256-byte system would be just about completely useless. > > Well... one cannot be too critical with his wording on these beasts ;-) > > I was talking about the amount of external RAM ($18xx and $1axx > area) somewhat ignoring the UVI-internal registers at $1900. Of > course these always exist > are sprite and > UDG ram really R/W so they can double as scratch pad if you don't > need 'em for display purposes? (yes, i know... it's *me* who has the > data sheet online...) Yes, they are. > These are the pitfalls of me being a hardware person more than a > programmer ;o) I'm the other way around :-) > > This is based on the > > following calculations: > > > > 93 bytes for UVI registers, excluding screen display matrix > > 208 bytes for low-res display, or 416 bytes for high-res display > > 84 bytes of "non-UVI" RAM. > > Go tell that to the Interton (PVI) programmers. 32 + 2 + 2 + 1 bytes > of scratch pad ram. Thirty-seven total. And according to my literature, > the object definition registers might be write-only... otherwise that > would be another 40 bytes. That is not exactly what i call much space. > Consequently, the chess and checkers carts came with some nifty > on-board ram.to make them work at all... :-) > -mc #2038 From: "minuous2" Date: Sun Jan 28, 2007 8:46 am Subject: 28 Interton VC-4000 family ROMs available for download At EA2001 Central, http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com If anyone has any more, please get in touch. These are raw cartridge dumps, suitable for use with eg. MESS. Unfortunately the MESS emulation is quite incomplete; maybe I will write an Interton VC 4000 emulator at some point if there is interest in it. Enjoy... #2039 From: Peter Trauner Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 9:16 am Subject: Re: 28 Interton VC-4000 family ROMs available for download Hello, following dumps look bad: romcmp interton.zip KNOCKOUT.BIN BADADDR --xxxxxxxxx CHALLENG.BIN FIXED BITS (xxxxxxxx0xxxxxxx) SUPERMAZ.BIN FIXED BITS (xxxxx1xx) also I know several 4kbyte cartridge and 1 6kbyte cartridge. GOLF.BIN looks like short (differs in the last byte with my 4KByte dump) Where these images read directly from the ROM chips, or via the cartridge connector? CHALLENG.BIN looks simply bad romtool cmp CHALLENG.BIN ../4_gewinnt.bin differences only in bits c0 differences only at addresses xxx xxxx 0001 For what system are these cartridges? What are the complete names of these images? Thanks for some new variants and games, Peter #2040 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Jan 29, 2007 6:12 pm Subject: Re: 28 Interton VC-4000 family ROMs available for download ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Trauner" To: Sent: Tuesday, January 30, 2007 4:16 AM Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] 28 Interton VC-4000 family ROMs available for download > Hello, > > following dumps look bad: > romcmp interton.zip > KNOCKOUT.BIN BADADDR > --xxxxxxxxx > CHALLENG.BIN FIXED BITS > (xxxxxxxx0xxxxxxx) > SUPERMAZ.BIN FIXED BITS (xxxxx1xx) > > also I know several 4kbyte cartridge and 1 6kbyte cartridge. > > GOLF.BIN looks like short (differs in the last byte with my 4KByte dump) > > CHALLENG.BIN looks simply bad > romtool cmp CHALLENG.BIN ../4_gewinnt.bin > differences only in bits c0 > differences only at addresses xxx xxxx 0001 Thanks, I will add a note to the archive pointing these problems out. It would be good to combine these dumps with the dumps you have already done to make a more complete and correct collection of ROMs. > Where these images read directly from the ROM chips, or via the > cartridge connector? > > For what system are these cartridges? I extracted and decrypted these from "Emulator 2001". Most were probably originally dumped by Gavin Turner from a Fountain using Little ROM Dumper. Some may have been dumped by other people by other methods on other machines. > What are the complete names of these images? AIRSEAAT = Air/Sea Attack BASMATHS = Basic Maths BLACKJAC = Blackjack CAPTURE = Capture CHALLENG = Challenge CODEBREA = Code Breaker GRNDPRIX = Grand Prix HEADON = Head On HORSERAC = Horse Racing INVADERS = Invaders LASERATT = Laser Attack KNOCKOUT = Super Knockout MATH2 = Math 2 MUSICALG = Musical Games OLYMPICS = Olympics PINBALL = Electronic Pinball PLANETDE = Planet Defender PRIZEFIG = Prizefight SPIDERS = Spider's Web SHOOTGAL = Shooting Gallery SHOOTOUT = Shoot Out SOCCER = Soccer SPACEWAR = Space War SUPERMAZ = Super Maze TANKPLAN = Tank/Plane Battle TREASURE = Treasure Hunt Regards James #2041 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Feb 7, 2007 9:29 pm Subject: Re: 28 Interton VC-4000 family ROMs available for download I also found the following additional bad dumps: Prizefighter and Spiders are short (underdumped). Basic Maths has bad addresses (all indirect instead of direct). Re. message #494: >The VC4000 cartridges are dumped now. Did you ever upload these anywhere? If so, could you kindly point me in the right direction? I have searched far and wide without success. :-( Thanks. James #2042 From: "minuous2" Date: Mon Mar 5, 2007 4:23 am Subject: 5 more MPT-03 manuals available for download They are Baseball, Boxing, Capture/Othello, Math/Logic and Parashooter, all in English. Thanks to Duncan Taylor for lending these for scanning. Scans are available now, ASCII versions will be available within the next few days. There are also other recent additions that may be of interest, eg. Manfred Schneider provided some Interton/Grundig schematics. Enjoy. #2047 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Mar 23, 2007 6:20 am Subject: New TESTER "> Charlie has an American Emerson Arcadia 2001; that is what TESTER > was run on." So, is the current version of TESTER a newer one than the one I used previosuly? Should I re-test with the new TESTER? Or, given the recent comments/suggestions, should I wait for an even newer TESTER? Charlie #2048 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Fri Mar 23, 2007 7:17 am Subject: Re: New TESTER > So, is the current version of TESTER a newer one than the one I used > previosuly? Should I re-test with the new TESTER? If you could run TESTER2 for me, that would be appreciated. It is a totally different set of tests to TESTER1. Thanks. James #2049 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 6:11 am Subject: Re: New TESTER No problem, except for timing. I will try this weekend, but we are going on vacation for a week, so if I don't make it, it will then have to wait for two weeks. I'm looking forward to it, even if I get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Charlie #2050 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Mar 26, 2007 4:57 pm Subject: Re: Re: New TESTER > No problem, except for timing. I will try this weekend, but we are > going on vacation for a week, so if I don't make it, it will then > have to wait for two weeks. No rush. > I'm looking forward to it, even if I get Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. I wrote it under the assumption that your camera would be working for taking screenshots, there is indeed a lot of output I'm afraid :-( Regards James #2051 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Mar 27, 2007 9:09 am Subject: Re: New TESTER Ok, ok, I'll set that up, too. Sheesh! Charlie #2052 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 8:42 am Subject: Tester #2 test, part 1 charliee1151 Offline Offline Send Email Send Email 1. Red on White is same background color as Red on Cyan = cyan 2. Startup/reset screen background is black, but foreground is only "probably" white; as in Tester #1, the screen is not cleared so there are a lot of garbage chars...those that seem to repeat reliably ARE white. 3. Rest of the colors seem to track 4. The last screen is not "HELLO", but "IELLO" No camera yet...working on it. Charlie #2053 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Fri Apr 6, 2007 11:36 am Subject: Re: Tester #2 test, part 1 > 1. Red on White is same background color as Red on Cyan = cyan Interesting, it looks like $1BF9 is a mirror of $19F9. > 4. The last screen is not "HELLO", but "IELLO" Oops :-( Is the background of that screen blue or black? James #2054 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Apr 7, 2007 6:41 pm Subject: Re: Tester #2 test, part 1 Background of "IELLO" is black. #2055 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sat Apr 7, 2007 6:49 pm Subject: Re: Re: Tester #2 test, part 1 > Background of "IELLO" is black. That result confirms that $1BF9 is indeed a mirror of $19F9. (It now seems likely that $1B00..$1BFF is a mirror of $1900..$19FF, but I don't want to jump to any conclusions.) Regards James #2056 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sat Apr 7, 2007 7:19 pm Subject: Tester 2 data Camera not co-operating, here's the manual data: 1. Screen 1 (reset/powerup) is black background, unable to specifically determine foreground, or if it should be blank or have specific chars. Screen 2: Note: These values will vary with a reset (F0, 50) etc, although the last digit is always 0 40 40 40 40 40 40 C0 40 40 40 40 00 F0 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 00 F0 40 40 40 F0 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 50 40 40 Date: Sat Apr 7, 2007 8:40 pm Subject: Re: Tester 2 data These results confirm that $1Bxx is a mirror of $19xx, and that $1000..$13FF, $1400..$17FF and $1C00..$1FFF are mirrors of $1800..$1BFF. I have updated the Coding Guide accordingly, and the next version of Ami/WinArcadia (4.03?) will emulate accordingly. There are no remaining uncertainties about the Arcadia's memory map, as far as I am aware. Thanks Charlie for helping out again. Regards James #2058 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Apr 9, 2007 12:11 pm Subject: Re: Tester 2 data No problem. Anything else, let me know. By the way, did you ever follow up on the Multiplex program? If I recall, the last thing was that the car did not properly follow the joystick; it was in motion when the joystick was centered. Charlie #2059 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:04 am Subject: Re: Re: Tester 2 data > No problem. Anything else, let me know. There are some other unknowns for Arcadia, not memory-map related, so there is scope for a TESTER3. But as all dumped Arcadia games are running OK it's not high priority at the moment. > By the way, did you ever follow up on the Multiplex program? If I > recall, the last thing was that the car did not properly follow the > joystick; it was in motion when the joystick was centered. Current version is still 3.2 (22 Nov 2006). I haven't had time to do much Arcadia stuff so far this year, I've been concentrating on Interton and Elektor. So just to confirm where we were at with that, it works fine except that it continues to move after centring the joystick? Regards James #2060 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Apr 10, 2007 3:41 pm Subject: Re: Tester 2 data More correct to say that it moves without moving the joystick, which of course means the stick IS in the center. If I remember correctly, the car moves right when the stick is centered, and up or down when the stick is up or down. I don't remember if the cars stops, or goes left, when the stick is left. Charlie #2061 From: "soanar99" Date: Fri Apr 13, 2007 2:21 pm Subject: Re: Tester 2 data > These results confirm that $1Bxx is a mirror of $19xx, and that > $1000..$13FF, $1400..$17FF and $1C00..$1FFF are mirrors of $1800..$1BFF. I Wouldn't this be due to "Incomplete decoding" of the address lines used by IC's other than the CPU. (aS with the Interton) It would be logical that the "Real" mirrored address or resulting address could be discovered simply by "AND"ing the Memory address. I would have to do some more reading of the information on these consoles, at this stage im only speculating. #2062 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:21 am Subject: Re: Tester 2 data Mirroring, sometimes called aliasing, is almost always caused by incomplete address decoding. Usually, it is a side effect of having the CPU being more capable than the ROM/PROM, in that not all the CPU address lines are decoded for the fullest possible range. Another way to look at it is bank-switching, where all the switches point to the same bank! Some analysis of the schematic would indeed determine this....but is it a significant enough question to do so? That is, are we doing this for the acedemic exercise of it, or is there a specific piece of info needed? Also, don't let the address-line-is-really-a chip-select concept throw you; it's just another implementation of bank-switching, which is all any address selection is. Charlie #2063 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 9:37 pm Subject: Re: Re: Tester 2 data > Some analysis of the schematic would indeed determine this....but is > it a significant enough question to do so? That is, are we doing > this for the acedemic exercise of it, or is there a specific piece > of info needed? The memory map is now known. IIRC none of the dumped Arcadia games need mirror emulation. But more accurate emulation is always desirable. Ideally, an emulator should be designed to work with any possible game, not limited to just the already dumped games. I would like Super Bug and Gundam to work perfectly as soon as they are dumped :-) >More correct to say that it moves without moving the joystick, which of course means the stick IS in the center. That example could do with a total rewrite, based on code from an existing game, maybe then it will work better :-( . Regards James #2064 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:25 am Subject: Elektor TV Games Computer Gaming Guide released http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/egg/ Most of these games are playable with Ami/WinArcadia. Enjoy... James #2065 From: "Marcelo Boulinha" Date: Mon Jun 4, 2007 8:56 am Subject: VC4000 Dumps. How can I help? Hi all. I'm a new member of this group. When I was a child, I use to play in a TRQ H-21 console (it's an Interton VC4000 clone) and I still have got this console and some of its games. Recently I have buyed a real Interton Vc4000 to being sure the games are the same. And I have buyed a lot of Interton games. I want to help in VC4000 emulation and I would like to know how I can dump all my carts to share to all of you (and, of course, to play them in my PC and, if I can, modify them) How can I do this? Thank you and regards, #2066 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Jun 6, 2007 7:57 am Subject: Re: VC4000 Dumps. How can I help? There are a couple of ways to dump carts. One way is to remove the chip and use a reader. You must therefore open the cart, unsolder the chip, and be able to buy or build a reader that is compatible with that particular chip type. Another way is to make up a custom socket that will allow you to plug the cart in without disassembly, but you will still have to wire the custom socket to the appropriate adapter to fit the reader. Homebrew readers that use the parallel (printer) connector can be found easily using Google. Which way you go depends on the decision of pocketbook-vs-proficiency. Charlie #2068 From: yandra@... Date: Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:45 am Subject: telefever.de Hey Guys, my contribution to the arcadia 2001 scene is here. wanna let you know that my arcadia clone called tele-fever fanpage is now online: www.telefever.de is the place to be! Lots of high quality pics of the console the cartridges and manuals. be there and ejoy browsing the images. cheers john (first console was the schimd tvg 2000 / Arcadia 2001 Clone) Jetzt neu! Schützen Sie Ihren PC mit McAfee und WEB.DE. 3 Monate kostenlos test en. *http://www.pc-sicherheit.web.de/startseite/?mc=022220* #2069 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Thu Sep 20, 2007 7:36 pm Subject: New scans available at EA2001 Central All Interton VC 4000 game manuals are now available. Also, all German-language Elektor TVGC magazine articles are now available. Many thanks to Manfred Schneider for providing these. http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/ #2070 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Thu Nov 29, 2007 11:57 am Subject: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH on Hello guys, haven´t been here for ages since I had to finally complete my dissertation now, once and for all. I will soon start to post Arcadia infos again and provide scans, interviews and other things I have gathered over the past years. I have come up some more rarities and even prototypes nobody ever heard of. For a start, I chose to sell a complete copy of Super Bug and some other nifty stuff on Ebay. Not at a bargain prize really, but this is probably one of the rarest games on all console platforms and so... Here are the auction numbers: Crazy Climber MPT-03 140185117256 Parashooter MPT-03 140185118160 Tennis Yannick Noah 140185118520 Advision pack 140185116366 Super Bug MPT-03 140185118415 Basketball Intervision 3001 140185116909 If you need any help with the item descriptions, drop me a line. Cheers Stefan #2071 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 8:44 am Subject: Re: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH Yeh, apparently SuperBug is somewhat rare. Perhaps some of the others also. But I wonder if who ever wins the auction will be inclined to make a ROM dump of it (or the others) available; or would even know that a ROM dump is needed, much less how to make one. Hmm, just had a thought.....the last discussion on the rarity of Superbug was about a year ago; maybe a ROM has already been dumped since then? Or can we twist your arm to do so (assuming you have the equipment, etc)? Thanks Charlie #2072 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Dec 4, 2007 8:52 am Subject: Re: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH (This is actually an edit, I think): I see on EBay that it has been sold. And at quite a price! Congrats! However, now I am curious as to the history, if you don't mind. How did you get all three? Can you upload some photos (screen shots) and/or a scan of the manual and/or overlay? Charlie #2073 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Tue Dec 18, 2007 7:25 pm Subject: Re: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH > > Yeh, apparently SuperBug is somewhat rare. Perhaps some of the others > > also. But I wonder if who ever wins the auction will be inclined to > > make a ROM dump of it (or the others) available; or would even know > > that a ROM dump is needed, much less how to make one. > > > > Hmm, just had a thought.....the last discussion on the rarity of > > Superbug was about a year ago; maybe a ROM has already been dumped > > since then? No, it still hasn't been, and it looks unlikely that it ever will be. This despite Stefan agreeing to arrange for it to be dumped in return for my coding Frogger for him. I am very angry about this. Regards James #2074 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Tue Jan 1, 2008 7:39 pm Subject: Moderator Request - Ward Shrake Membership Pending Ward asked me to post a message that his membership has been pending with the board for a while now and that he would like to join the message group again. Could a moderator please approve him? Thanks. Adam #2075 From: "Russ Perry Jr." Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 8:28 pm Subject: Re: Moderator Request - Ward Shrake Membership Pending Done. Ward! You're back? -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 RussPerryJr@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// #2076 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 10:42 pm Subject: Re: Moderator Request - Ward Shrake Membership Pending Yup! That's me. In the flesh, and typing away again. Guys ... while I won't promise to be the "old me" in all ways, or to even have all of my old interests, at the same levels or anything -- in fact, I'm gonna take it quite exceptionally easy, by my old standards: just stick a toe in, gently, and see what happens -- it's been five years "away," now; my life quit being so gawd awful on a personal level; I got the heck out of California, which I hated; I'm very happy (and serene) in New Mexico, where I'm living now; etc. ... ... and Adam Trionfo (though he won't likely admit it much) has been very very gently almost obliquely whispering a few subtle hints, here and there at long intervals for a while now: that he's having a bit of mild fun, doing what he's doing, over in the Bally Astrocade world; while keeping life in balance. He recently took up college classes in electronics, soldering and all that ... and his new interest in that rekindled my old interest in tinkering with old hardware ... if only to share that bit of nerdy fun with him, when I get to visit him a few times a year. Actually, I'd sort of been looking for an excuse to do some general soldering and nerding out, from time to time; and he sorta supplied it. The kicker was him sending me a forwarded message about SuperBug not being archived, yet. Which got me to looking at my stash of stuff ... I'd have to make up new adapter cables, but I have the rest of the stuff I'd need to do that sort of thing again; cart loans permitting? -- Ward Shrake -- P.S. -- we talked on the phone, tonight, and Adam implied his gently and patiently convincing me to come back was "revenge" for me getting him into it, years ago. (We laughed.) I suppose I asked for it! ;-) #2077 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Jan 2, 2008 11:13 pm Subject: Re: Moderator Request - Ward Shrake Membership Pending >... and Adam Trionfo (though he won't likely admit it much) has been >very very gently almost obliquely whispering a few subtle hints, here >and there at long intervals for a while now I have? Well, it must have been [DUMP CARTS NOW] without me [DUMP CARTS NOW] noticing. Sorry about [DUMP CARTS NOW] that. >Adam implied his gently and patiently convincing me to come back was "revenge" >for me getting him into it, years ago. By "it" Ward is referring to the Arcadia 2001. I had never known much about the console until he introduced me to this group. I HAD played it before, but only in passing. I found the Arcadia interesting for a bit... sort of a distraction from the Bally Astrocade. I ended up buying a console and a multicart and doing a TINY bit of coding. I also enjoyed playing Crazy Gobbler-- which was pretty good for a 2K game. It was missing a ghost (there were only three) and the screen color were a bit weird, but somehow it worked well. I can't remember any other game making much of an impression. If I looked through a list I'd probably remember a couple that are okay. How are the Japanese Bandai games? I played them when they were first dumped but I don't recall if they were any good. Adam #2078 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Jan 3, 2008 3:03 am Subject: Re: Moderator Request - Ward Shrake Membership Pending --- Adam Trionfo said: > I also enjoyed playing Crazy Gobbler-- which was > pretty good for a 2K game. It was missing a ghost > (there were only three) and the screen color were > a bit weird, but somehow it worked well. I can't > remember any other game making much of an impression. > If I looked through a list I'd probably remember a > couple that are okay. > > How are the Japanese Bandai games? I played them > when they were first dumped but I don't recall if > they were any good. > > Adam Huh? People are supposed to PLAY these games? Aaaaaah geez ... and here all *I* was doin' was archivin' them when people loaned 'em to me, and looking through the code to see if any hidden messages were there. "Play." Sheeesh! Somebody really oughta say that in a FAQ or something: how else is anyone supposed to know what to do with them? ;-) Actually, my favorite for the Arcadia group was always Astro Invader. If memory / recent reacquaintance with backups serves, I had the ROM on the multicart set up to play that one, when it was "all one's". -- Ward Shrake -- #2079 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Jan 4, 2008 1:44 am Subject: Regarding (a lack of) labels for Ward's Arcadia multi-carts Hi all. In going through my old game-related hard drive backups, I found an old text file which tells me the following news ... -- Sly DC has no labels at all; front or back. -- Mark Bowling needs a rear label, at least. (replacement) -- Joe Cody needs rear label. ("CGE 2002" auction buyer.) -- Sean McGrail needs a rear label. ... in regards to labels that I may or may not have ever sent to these fine folks, when they purchased Arcadia 2001 multi-carts from me, several years ago. (Before I "retired" from retro-gaming.) What I'm hoping to do is to get ahold of each of these people, to see if I ever sent them what I once promised them they'd get? If I never did, before my five-year hiatus, I'd like to print / send some now. If you know these four folk's current contact address, and you know that they don't hang out here ... tell 'em for me, please! Thanks! -- Ward Shrake -- #2080 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sat Jan 5, 2008 2:36 am Subject: Regarding possible EPROM upgrades to Ward's multi-carts Hi all. I just made this offer, over on the Digital Press forums ... http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1298331#post1298331 ... and it just seems like the thing to do, to post it here, too. On the multi-carts I once made: I'm pretty good at keeping things like old hard drive backups intact and semi-organizee, so very little if anything was "lost" during my hiatus. In fact, I still have full, detailed lists of owners of the 43 Bally Astrocade multi's I once made and sold; and the 34 I made for the Arcadia 2001 (Emerson and clones). As far as EPROM upgrades go: Emerson Arcadia 2001 situation: Yes, version 1.3 was the last "public" release of an upgrade EPROM for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 multi-cart. I kept lists of who had what (as far as original owners goes, anyway -- no telling who sold what to whom when, since I first made and sold these things ages ago!?) There were only 34 Emerson multi's ever made. Here's the list (I hope it re-formats okay?!) of original owners ... sorted by their EPROM version. Arcadia 2001 multicart list Cart numbers and original owners Cart # Owner's Software & batch # Name version Status of cartridge ========================================================================== 3 2 Jeff Rothkopf 1.1 Shipped 2001-12-19. 5 2 Mike Markowski 1.1 Shipped 2002-01-03. 8 3 Lee Romanow 1.1a Shipped 2002-01-22. 9 4 Dennis Spreen 1.1a Shipped 2002-01-25. 15 7? Sly DC 1.25 Shipped 2002-05-28. 16 7? Mark Bowling 1.25 Shipped 2002-05-28. 1 1 Bryan Gruszka 1.25a Shipped 2001-11-26. 17 2 Charles Dysert 1.25a Shipped 2001-12-19. 4 2 Dan Blitz 1.25a Shipped 2001-12-19. "69" 3 Kai Darius Kohl 1.25a Shipped 2001-12-21. "43" 3 Ian Baronofsky 1.25a Shipped 2001-12-27. 11 3 David Flemming 1.25a Shipped 2001-12-27. 7 2 Chris Neiman 1.25a Shipped 2002-01-08. 6 2 Matt Reichert 1.25a Shipped 2002-01-08. 10 4 Aaron Schlieve 1.25a Shipped 2002-01-25. 12 5 Jerry Greiner 1.25a Shipped 2002-02-21. 14 5 Gerilynn Schott 1.25a Shipped 2002-02-22. 20 7? Sean McGrail 1.25a Shipped 2002-08-23. 19 7? Joe Cody 1.25a Sold on 2002-08-xx. 18 7? Al Backiel 1.25a Sold on 2002-08-xx. 26 3 Russ Perry Jr. 1.3 Shipped 2002-01-19. 21 8? Hans Reutter 1.3 Shipped 2002-12-27. 24 8? Lucas Barnes 1.3 Shipped 2002-12-30. 27 8? Drew Dockery 1.3 Shipped 2003-01-03. 25 8? Jeff Rothkopf 1.3 Shipped 2003-01-03. 22 8? Ian Baronofsky 1.3 Shipped 2003-01-06. 28 8? Larry Anderson 1.3 Shipped 2003-01-06. 23 8? Scott Bertulli 1.3 Shipped 2003-01-09. 29 8? Matthew Archambeau 1.3 Shipped 2003-01-17. 30 8? Matthew Archambeau 1.3 Shipped 2003-01-17. 13 3 Ward Shrake 1.35 Finished 2001-12-20. "34" 8? Ward Shrake 1.35 Finished Jan 2005. 2 1 Stefan Piasecki 1.35 Shipped 2001-11-26. "2001" 7? Adam Trionfo 1.35 Shipped 2002-05-03. Here's the "what you might be missing (if you own one)" breakdown: Version 1.0, if I recall correctly now, is what I called my first 8- in-1 hand-wired prototype. So, basically no one ever had version 1.0 - - except for Olivier B. in France, who got that proto mailed to him in 2005-ish. (I turned it into an MPT-03 prototype multi-cart ... but I have no idea if he did anything much with it, since.) Version 1.1 was pretty much what everyone started with. Only four carts are still in that form. 45 games total in that revision, if I'm counting correctly. (Which is about ten more than most folks had any idea ever existed, once upon a time / way back in the late 1990's. I think DPCG #5 listed around three dozen?) Version 1.2 did exist, briefly ... but pretty much everyone skipped it. (I pushed upgrades to 1.25 heavily around CGE '02 -- both in person, and before / after the show, by mail.) This upgrade added three newly-discovered / dumped games from the Ormatu family of clones -- Boxing, Nibblemen, and Parashooter. Version 1.25 is in the hands of about half the owners: 16 out of the 34 who bought a multi. If you have that version, you're in pretty good shape. The step upwards was another two games: Blackjack and Circus. Version 1.3 added two Japanese games: Doraemon and Dr. Slump. I dumped those two myself, so I know they're good dumps. About a third of all 34 owners currently have this version of the upgrade chip. Version 1.35 was an "after I retired" thing that nearly no one actually saw, besides myself and two guys. There were several reasons for this -- my long hibernation among them. Questionable dumps of the two remaining Japanese games. (I'd re- dump them, if I was loaned the carts.) And also this: the state of emulation at the time. What I mean by that is: home-brew types who coded games on an emulator only, were surprised to find that the real thing worked differently. So, all in all, version 1.35 was a not- really-ready-for-prime-time thing, which stayed out of the public's eye. Bottomline: even though I once said I was retired forever, blah- blah ... I'm sort-of kind-of halfway back, now. I am not against upgrading these carts ... but! ... I would like some cooperation from owners. Mainly, I'd like them to install their own chips; if I burn them and send them out in the mails. (I'd like to avoid folks putting their multi's in the mail, and have me do it.) All of these chips had quality sockets, and every label always had screw holes punched in the back: making them all easily upgrade-able. It's not that hard to gently pry one EPROM chip out, and put another one in. (And if done that way, you'd have a backup chip.) I have the ability to take step-by-step color photos of the process; which I couldn't do, before. That should help? So, if folks are willing to pay for new EPROM chips and postage -- or send me a spare: some folks still have some, I believe? -- I'm willing to send them upgraded EPROMs. My new email addy is ward_shrake@yahoo.com Bally Astrocade upgrade situation: There won't be any additional upgrades, for the Bally multi's. It's simply not needed. Mike White and Adam Trionfo both did such a wonderful job of research and archiving, that even Jamie (formerly Jay) Fenton was surprised at how much stuff they'd come up with, over the years. My lists of who has what shows that each original owner had at least version 1.3 ... and only two super-minor-tiny "upgrades" beyond that happened. (And those may have just been something like me putting a game in the "all one's" position, for testing; or swapping out what game that was, over time. The "serious stuff" that was listed, in terms of what DIP switch settings do what, should all be alike. My "X.XXa" or "X.XXb" revisions were always very trivial.) The other thing is: I no longer even have a Bally Astrocade machine. My only one heat-stroked out, and I have not replaced it. So, upgrades for the Bally carts are pretty much a "don't need" and "can't do" deal. I haven't kept up with what's been happening over on Bally Alley (or anywhere else!) and can only say that if there were any newly-coded home-brew games or whatever, while I was away, that Mike White has done a service for decades now, of soldering up homebrew carts for a nomimal fee. See Bally Alley's message group on Yahoo! to contact Mike White, and see if there's anything new; and if he still does that service. -- Ward Shrake -- #2081 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:16 pm Subject: Re: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH Hi James, I am sorry if you are angry about me. I am in the process of slowly returning to everything Arcadia. I kept on collecting items and infos and gathering stuff, but didn´t have time to do anything else. And after Ward "stepped back" in one form or another I lost a very trusty source of help, inspiration and information. I was in contact with somebody in Western Germany who claimed to be able to make dumps and show me how to do them myselves because I wasn´t too keen to ship such ultra-rare games around the globe (to people other than Ward), but at some point he stopped replying and my work took over (he mentioned private problems at one point). If I really promised you to dump my game against Frogger, I honestly forgot about it and I am deeply sorry - even more so since I fondly recall our discussions. I can only say that the info I have will be shared. I´ll just have to talk to Ward about some of these things, if you don´t mind. If this helps you: I have found at least one game in prototype form that was neither released nor ever mentioned and it even is a license of a quite known brand. It´s a Jump and Run - you´d love to see the code, I know. Yours Stefan #2082 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:23 pm Subject: Re: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH By the way, I´ve put my second copy of Super Bug up for auction: 140198531273 I only hope that again a true collector will get it. Stefan #2083 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:18 pm Subject: Cartridge archiving hints and tips --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "Stefan Piasecki" wrote: > I can only say that the info I have will > be shared. I´ll just have to talk to Ward > about some of these things, if you don´t mind. Stefan: now that I'm "semi-retired" instead of "fully retired" -- and believe me, I *needed* that break! -- I can break down what I did, as far as cart dumping, in a way that you might be able to do it, without having to mail anything to me. Although I wouldn't mind dumping stuff, myself, I trust the Post Office less than I once did; etc., etc. So, "dumping" carts boils down to this: you have to have two things. One, a set of adapter cables. The ones I had before, I sent off to Olivier B., from France. As far as I know, he likely still has those. And before that, I had sent a set of adapter cables to Joe Santulli of Digital Press, too. I'll have to solder up another set for myself, but I'm willing to do that. (I miss the smell of solder fumes! Ha!) If I get rambunctious, maybe I'll just solder up multiple sets, and mail you a set, for you to keep? (But it won't happen ultra-fast: I have a house I need to help clean / repair / renovate, for a friend; plus a day job that's taking up more and more of my free time, etc.) Second: to do things the way I did them -- by which I mean, pretty reliably! -- you'd need a Commodore 64 and an EPROM burner that was made for it: specifically, the "Promenade C1" device. The manual and the software for it is easily available: I converted both into a PC format, after obtaining official permission to do that. So, digging up a source for one of those old devices would be the hardest part. (I do see some for sale or trade, most times when I look for them. I won't say it'd be easy to talk the owner out of one: that depends. I would never sell mine! But perhaps others would value theirs, less.) Why that specific EPROM burner? Because modern burners, in my (very experienced cart archiving) opinion, have a VERY difficult time understanding how slow those old chips were, to access! Modern PC's and their associated EPROM burners have a hell of a time adapting to the standards that were common, decades ago. But the Promenade was literally made for chips of that era. (And yes, I do have a modern EPROM burner, as well: an EMP-10 by Needham's Electronics, that uses the parallel port. I keep an older PC around, to plug that into; and to be able to plug in an X-1541 cable, so I can plug in a disk drive made for the Commodore 64; to do the adaptation of the dumped data.) Yes, it is a lot of work. However, my cart dumps actually work! (I've occasionally heard other people, who have far less experience with cart dumping, telling me that's too much work, and to use a modern PC with a modern EPROM burner; and it will work fine. Actually, no, it does not. Quite often, the dumped results come out as gibberish.) Assuming one has all that stuff, it boils down to plugging the cart you're dumping, into one end of the adapter cable; plugging the other end of that cable into the Promenade EPROM burner ... and pretending it's a stand-alone, bare ROM chip, instead of being a cartridge. And after you have visually scanned the on-screen "print out" of what the data looks like -- I can tell almost at a glance, if it's valid; the patterns I've become accustomed to seeing, will or won't be there -- then you convert what is on the C64's diskette, to a PC/web format. -- Ward Shrake -- #2084 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 2:28 pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving hints and tips Quick follow-up: here's a valid eBay search criteria, for those who may want to buy one of the Promenade EPROM burners: promenade (eprom,C64,C-64,Commodore,C1) Right now, that search comes up with five hits. Some are insane on $$: it's a rare and (to some people) valed item. (One current "hit" is a package of circuit drawings ... let me try to get that one, please!) Keep in mind that you don't really NEED the software or the manual: I can get you guys a copy of that. You'd just need the device, itself. (And of course a Commodore 64 system, to use it with. Warning: the big SX-64 is a little different from a normal C64; that one requires a modification to be done. Stick with a normal C64, if buying one new.) -- Ward Shrake -- #2085 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 8:46 pm Subject: Hardware Hacking -- Composite Video modification Hi all. A new-to-me discovery: I was playing around tonight with the guts of my old Leisure-Vision console. I'm pleased (and a bit amazed) at how simple it is to get "composite video" out of a machine like my Leisure-Vision. I'll post more info, later -- with pictures -- but the gist of it is this: hook up two wires, and it's done. No added circuitry is needed; and you don't have to modify the existing board. As it turns out, the little metal RF box inside the machine already has nice, clean composite video going into it. Unlike more popular 1980's consoles you don't have to generate that signal, or do any big magic, or even tweak it: you just have to hook the outer ring of an RCA-style female connector to "ground" inside the console; and hook the center of that same connector to one wire that goes inside the RF box ... attach that connector to the outside of the console's case, somewhere ... and you're ready to plug things into a video monitor. I have to give Adam Trionfo some credit for this cool discovery. I had idly wondered if there was a place on the motherboard, that had a clean video signal on it. Didn't really look much, 'cause that seemed way too easy. If it was gonna happen that way, the wires going into the RF box sounded like a good place to pick that signal up ... but which one; or which combination of them? So, I had other fish to fry. However, around Thanksgiving, Adam loaned me his (NTSC) MPT-03 system, to play around with. Lo and behold, that board had partial labeling! In other words, that board said right on it, which wire going into the RF box was the video signal. I stuck a test lead from that wire, to the center pin of a video cable ... and tested to see if any of the wire jumpers near that location were "ground"; and in no time, found one that was ... and seconds later, had composite out. "Sound" is the next experiment. Hopefully, that'll be just as easy!? (Another wire going into the RF box is labeled that way. We'll see.) -- Ward Shrake -- #2086 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:03 pm Subject: Hardware Hacking -- Alternate Controllers Hi all. Preliminary news about another hardware experiment of mine. I have three of these systems laying around: one is my old Leisure- Vision console (which, if memory serves, Sly DC sold me at a more than fair price, to encourage my experimentation!); plus an old Tele- Fever console (courtesy, if memory serves, of Stephan; again, one to play with; that one not being operational); and a third on loan from Adam Trionfo -- an NTSC version of an MPT-03 machine. (And a dead machine that's on order but not here yet, from eBay: just a regular Emerson console, for spare parts). Okay. What I did was trace out what went where, inside the hand controllers for the Leisure-Vision console, plus the Tele-Fever. Not fully, but enough to have some good educated guesses about their thinking. I'll keep mapping things, over time, as the spirit moves me ... but for now, as an early test of my first hardware guesses, I broke out the soldering iron and put the Tele-Fever's right joystick on the Leisure-Vision ... straight swap without any problems, so long as you hook it to the correct connector on the motherboard ... so I actually skipped testing that, as I was sure it would work; and went straight to swapping the controller's coiled cables around. That does work. I now have a formerly-right-side-only Tele-Fever joystick on my Leisure-Vision, as the left side's controller. I also have what used to be a left-side-only Leisure-Vision connector, on the right side. I may be reinventing the wheel here? I haven't checked the hardware info that may have come about, during my absence. However, assuming this is new-news: there is no difference between the left or right sides of either machine's controllers, save one: there is a small PC board that acts as an interface between the clear plastic sheets that act as the machine's buttons, and the coiled cables. If you hook up the ends of the wires a certain way (from the cable to the little PC board) then it's a left-side controller. Wire it another way, and it becomes a right-side controller. Other than that, they're identical. This may all be pretty unexciting, preliminary investigative work ... but it's a small step towards alternate controllers, if we can work out what pins go where and why they go there; and then build on that. (Even if that never comes to pass, it might help emulation efforts?) -- Ward Shrake -- #2087 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:18 pm Subject: Re: Hardware Hacking -- Composite Video modification A follow-up to the composite video "hack": getting sound to go directly to a monitor (or a home theater system, or whatever) is easy, too. Just grab the "sound" signal just before it disappears into the RF box (pic to follow, later); hook it to the center pin of a female RCA connector; hook ground up to the outer ring portion of that same connector ... and you have nifty sound! (That is: nice and clean, for bleeps and blorps!) -- Ward Shrake -- P.S. -- I tried both hacks on Adam's MPT-03 system. Works. The video is badly distorted ... but considering it was a two-minute test ... #2088 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:35 am Subject: RE: Re: Hardware Hacking -- Composite Video modification Ward Shrake, on Wed, 16 Jan 2008 at 06:18, wrote: >> A follow-up to the composite video "hack": [...] and you have nifty sound! (That is: nice and clean, for bleeps and blorps!) >> Pretty cool. I like the sound effects that you wrote. Maybe you can get the audio to work with close captioning... imagine this on the bottom of your TV Screen: "Boom! [Player 1 Dies]." Adam #2089 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:49 am Subject: Re: Hardware Hacking -- Alternate Controllers That´s a cool experiment. I tried to do that 2 years ago when trying to create an arcade joystick for the Arcadia. Due to work overload I never finished it but I found and bought one of those early original arcade joysticks (Pac Man era, not later to avoid hassles with too many directions and extra moves) and fire buttons in order to have a solid and reliable joypad just like the one Namco did for the PSX. As I said, I didn´t finish it but I got far enough to see that it was possible, if only one had the time. Guess this would make playing faster games fun. Stefan > but it's a small step towards alternate controllers, if we can work > out what pins go where and why they go there; and then build on that. > > (Even if that never comes to pass, it might help emulation efforts?) > > -- Ward Shrake -- > #2090 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Jan 16, 2008 3:37 pm Subject: Re: Hardware Hacking -- Composite Video modification Close captioning, huh? I think I'll stick with good sound and picture, for now. And then work on alternate (worth having!) controllers. But hey ... for those who want to go the extra mile, now there's a reason to wire up the extra 512 bytes of RAM memory. Maybe. (I'm thinking about the A9 address line to the 2114's being grounded. I just read up on that, last night. Funny, that the "28k of RAM" lie just keeps getting worse, and worse. Bad enough thinking it was a whopping 1k of total memory; but finding out half went unused ...!) I'm trying to catch up on reading back postings. Got several hundred of them read, last night: from 2003 till now. Got another few hundred to go, still. I have to say: it's a lot more fun reading about this stuff, when OTHER people are doing all the work! Ha! :-) -- Ward Shrake -- #2092 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:40 pm Subject: Question -- are new "real console" screenshots desirable? ward_shrake Offline Offline Send Email Send Email Hi all. I just read through 300+ archived messages (dating from early 2003 until now) and didn't see the answer to a question I'm pondering: are new "made on a real console" screenshots or grabs a Very Good Thing for this community to have? I would think so. I didn't see any news related to that, other than this short mention in message #2006: --- "James Jacobs" wrote: > > By the way, does anyone here read Retro Gamer > magazine? If so, check out issue #27, page 20. > The screenshot of Hobo is awful (taken with Robson > emulator) but at least the text is positive... :-) I'm approaching my future gaming projects as a "for myself; but shared (when possible)" sort of thing. In that vein, what I plan to do is this: continue with my Hardware Hack to get nice clean composite video out of my Leisure-Vision console. (Basically just solder it up; instead of using temporary jumper wires.) I would have to (a) get that working 100%, and then (b) find time away from other things ... such as a Fiction Writing Workshop I signed up for, that starts tomorrow and lasts for eight weeks ... then I'll try to make screengrabs for the whole ROM library: using my personal multi-cart and a "real system". -- Ward Shrake -- #2093 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:51 pm Subject: Re: Cartridge archiving hints and tips Just noting for the record that besides what I said not long ago (in messages #2083 and 2084), there was another really good overview of the ROM dumping / cartridge archiving process. See message #1643 for what PeT had to say on the subject, some time ago. (He and I both seem to favor using a homemade cable that connects a cart's card edge connector to a made-for-that-purpose ROM reader / EPROM burning device; but he makes a list of other methods that some folks prefer to try, instead.) Note: if you're willing to go to the group's web page, you can find just about any old message you want, via a keyword search. I say that because some folks have, in the past, incorrectly assumed that there is only one way to read these messages: that being having them sent to you in private e-mail. There are several other options available; you'll find them, if you go to the home page for this group. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/ Also: I just uploaded the actual software for the "Promenade C1" ROM reader / EPROM burning device that I favor. See the files section; in the "ROM dumping" folder. I also uploaded the manual for that device. (I once sought and was given permission to type that manual in, and share that software, from the people that once made that device.) -- Ward Shrake -- #2094 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:48 am Subject: Dumb Game Ideas, #60498238492 Hi all. Just doing a bit of brainstorming, here. I'd like to see more homebrew games made for the Arcadia 2001 family of consoles ... so, to grease those wheels a bit, I'm gonna suggest an idea. Anyone seen the arcade game "whack-a-mole"; and/or similar games? They aren't video games (with a joystick and a screen, I mean), but you may find one at family places like "Chuck E. Cheese". The idea is that you have a grid of, say, three holes across (horizontal) by three holes up or down (vertical). Play consists of a "mole" sticking its head up out of the hole; and you trying to whack it on the head with a play mallet, before it goes back into its hole. (For what it's worth, the Commodore VIC-20 computer had a cartridge game a lot like this, back in the day.) The game starts off slow, of course ... and gets faster and faster. Sounds stupid, but it's actually pretty fun to play as it speeds up. It's one of those ideas I think could "easily" (cough, choke!) be implemented on the Arcadia ... even with it's limitation on move-able sprites, scrolling, etc. ... but could still be an addicting game to play. The buttons on the keypad could even be used, directly: hit one of those, when the "mole" that corresponds to that location pops up. I think the harder levels on the VIC-20 version introduced things popping up, that you were NOT supposed to clonk on the head. Another idea: if someone coded that up, and documented their code or made it otherwise somewhat understandable, couldn't Charliee1151's spritemaker program be used to make "graphics hacks" versions of it? IN other words, treat the initial code as fairly generic, right from the start ... and leave a bit of room for tweaking, later? I'm thinkin' it could be a fun thing to have it being zombies popping out of graves, instead of moles popping out of their mole-holes, for instance. Or aliens. Or ...? Anyone up for coding this thing? I'd be glad to help with the testing process: burning it into an EPROM and running it on my Leisure-Vision console, and doing screengrabs... -- Ward Shrake -- #2095 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:35 am Subject: Random thoughts Just a couple of random things: I have been dumping carts for a long time. I use a somewhat aged system, which would seem to fit into the "old-and-slow-but-therefore-reliable" category that I see discussed here. However, when I got excited about the '2001 way-back-when, I realized that this is too limited. So I obtained an EPROM emulator; this replaces the ROM chip in a cartridge, and is downloadable from the PC parallel port, so I can play any '2001 dump file without changing hardware. This also makes it really easy for development. This was a big help when I had to compare the operation of various cart dumps as compared to the emulator. I recall performing a number of tests and providing their results; presumably, this helped improve the emulator. This obviously would also help for testing anything produced by the group here, if desired. Don't let the address line thingy fool you. It is straight forward from a technical point of view; it's unfortunate that the '2001 handles it the way it does. When I was playing around with creating a quickie program for the '2001 ("Boxer"), I quickly found that the 2K ROM I was emulating was not big enough. It was a simple task to re-address the cartridge to 4k; it should be equally simple to re-address it higher if needed (and if the '2001 supports it, of course ----it's been a long time and I don't remember). And, of course, there remains the necessity of using a cartridge PCB that originally held a PROM of the proper size. SpriteMaker is always open to improvement, so any comments are always welcome. I like the "skeletons-in-a-grave" concept; maybe we can make a joint project out of it? Charlie #2096 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:53 am Subject: RE: Question -- are new "real console" screenshots desirable? Ward Shrake wrote: >> are new "made on a real console" screenshots or grabs a Very Good Thing for this community to have? >> I prefer screenshots made from emulators. As long as the emulator works well, and I believe it does for the Arcadia 2001, then the screenshots look better than a grab. Is there any reason NOT to prefer them? We've just been talking about this over at the Bally Alley Yahoo Group, but for a different reason. There are many hundreds of tapes that have been archived for the Astrocade console. These are (mostly) for use with BASIC. The Astrocade emulator (MESS) does not support the loading of these tapes, so there are currently just a few shots of tape games that I made several years ago with an OLD grabber (the shots are low quality, but are better than nothing). There is a member of the Astrocade message group that wants to make some screenshots using an RF interface. That would work, but upgrading the Astrocade to S-Video (an easy to install kit is available) makes better, clearer screenshots. The argument against this is that S-Video screenshots are not as authentic. Bah! We all live/lived with RF interference because there was nothing better. Now that there is a better alternative we're going to shun it? That doesn't make sense to me! So, unless the Arcadia 2001 emulator isn't up to the task of creating accurate screenshots, I say not to bother with screengrabs. Adam #2097 From: "Bill" Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:17 pm Subject: Re: Question -- are new "real console" screenshots desirable? Yo Ward, good to see you still alive and welcome back to the land of..the old I guess. Personally, I haven't been very active, though I have been lurking and reading the posts. That whole Real Life (TM) thing, going to the slave pits every day to keep a roof over Mrs Bils and the Bill Spawns head..takes up far too much time if you ask me. Anyway down to business, this is interrelated to this topic and the composite output one as well. Some time ago I did the composite output mod to one of my (PAL) MPT-03's, which now looks rather strange sporting nice gold RCA sockets on the back, and I connected the composite output to the composite in on a TV/Capture card, and took real screenshots of most (possibly all, including the Blackjack and Clowns carts you dumped!) of my carts, with the intent of reconstructing my MPT-03 web site. That hasn't happened, but I have the screenshots, also cart label, box, instruction manual and keypad overlay scans where I have the originals. Maybe I just might pull my finger out and get that web page back online... Bill LaGrue --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , Adam Trionfo wrote: > > > Ward Shrake wrote: > >> > are new "made on a real console" screenshots or grabs a Very Good Thing > for this community to have? > >> > > I prefer screenshots made from emulators. As long as the emulator works well, and I believe it does for the Arcadia 2001, then the screenshots look better than a grab. Is there any reason NOT to prefer them? > > We've just been talking about this over at the Bally Alley Yahoo Group, but for a different reason. There are many hundreds of tapes that have been archived for the Astrocade console. These are (mostly) for use with BASIC. The Astrocade emulator (MESS) does not support the loading of these tapes, so there are currently just a few shots of tape games that I made several years ago with an OLD grabber (the shots are low quality, but are better than nothing). There is a member of the Astrocade message group that wants to make some screenshots using an RF interface. That would work, but upgrading the Astrocade to S-Video (an easy to install kit is available) makes better, clearer screenshots. The argument against this is that S-Video screenshots are not as authentic. Bah! We all live/lived with RF interference because there was nothing better. Now that there is a better alternative we're going to shun it? That doesn't make sense to me! > > So, unless the Arcadia 2001 emulator isn't up to the task of creating accurate screenshots, I say not to bother with screengrabs. > > Adam #2098 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:21 pm Subject: Re: Random thoughts --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "charliee1151" wrote: > And, of course, there remains the necessity > of using a cartridge PCB that originally held > a PROM of the proper size. That's more do-able than a person might think ... years ago, when I was making my multi-carts for the Emerson family of clones, I was buying up all the "long style" (plastic case) games that I could find / buy, and taking out the factory PC boards; and putting in my own hand-etched ones, instead. (Which was made to work with a 512k EPROM: a 27c040 or 27c4001, as I recall it now.) Anyway, that left me with lots of spare factory boards to play around with. I experimented a bit and found out that a technically skilled person could (in some cases: the boards went through various revisions, and some are easier to use than others) just cut a few traces, jumper a few wires around, and have an 8k cart that would work with any game ever programmed for this system. At the time I took a few pictures of those boards, and some written notes: those are largely disorganized, and will likely stay that way for months, as I slowly get back into all this hardware stuff. (While keeping balance in my overall life: which I failed to do, before; hence my "retirement". In fact, I go to a fiction writer's workshop, in just a few hours ... so I'll be slowing down a bit, presumably.) For now, I simply uploaded a one-page Word document to the "Files > Hardware_information" section of this group's web site. It's the same stuff that I once submitted to Digital Press, for their 7th version of their Collector's Guide. It will show what board numbers are the most desirable ones, as far as modifying them to work with EPROM chips. I'll also see about uploading some board pics (minus notes.) > SpriteMaker is always open to improvement, > so any comments are always welcome. Coolness! > I like the "skeletons-in-a-grave" concept; > maybe we can make a joint project out of it? Again ... coolness! Glad someone besides me likes that idea! -- Ward Shrake -- #2099 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 2:42 pm Subject: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? Silly Hardware Hacking idea #4302342768: Just my personal opinion, but it seems to me that the one big thing holding back any new homebrew games is that there isn't really an "easily available and easily used" development system. A handful of guys have hacked something like an EPROM emulation device up, just for themselves: Charliee1151, for instance; and I technically could, too. (But mine would end up being more of a "hack up a cart for EPROM use.) What if! ... someone were to look over with envy at the guys doing all the neat homebrew stuff for the Atari 2600 (or even the Bally Astrocade's world) ... and noted their ready-made MakeWav programs and the like, that can feed binary info out of a sound card, in a form that certain devices could interpret ... and then one were to notice that 80% of the existing ROM library would work in a RAM memory space of only 6k ... and then noticed that the Starpath Supercharger device, which is still available reasonably cheaply and without too much chance of having to look for one, forever, on eBay ... what if someone bundled all that thought together, and then openly wondered why someone hasn't made a relatively simple pinout- adapter, to make it a lot easier to just directly plug a Starpath Supercharger into one of the slot-compatible clones of the Emerson Arcadia 2001 family? Any thoughts on making an "EmerCharger" system? -- Ward Shrake -- #2100 From: "Russ Perry, Jr." Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 3:08 pm Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? > Silly Hardware Hacking idea #4302342768: > > [...could someone make] a relatively simple pinout-adapter, > to make it a lot easier to just directly plug a Starpath > Supercharger into one of the slot-compatible clones of the > Emerson Arcadia 2001 family? I can't really speak to this from a technological standpoint, but I like the idea... Not even so much that it's kind of a neat idea (though a USB RAM cart would probably be better in this day and age), but more so that "Starpath" began as "Arcadia" until Emerson showed up using the same name for the 2001! -- //*================================================================++ || Russ Perry Jr 2175 S Tonne Dr #114 Arlington Hts IL 60005 || || 847-952-9729 RussPerryJr@... VIDEOGAME COLLECTOR! || ++================================================================*// #2101 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:48 pm Subject: Re: Re: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH on Ebay >I was in contact with somebody in Western Germany who claimed to be able to make dumps and show me how to do them myselves because I wasn´t too keen to ship such ultra-rare games around the globe (to people other than Ward), but at some point he stopped replying and my work took over (he mentioned private problems at one point). I know several people in Europe who are able to perform dumps from these systems, I can put you in touch with them. If this helps you: I have found at least one game in prototype form that was neither released nor ever mentioned and it even is a license of a quite known brand. It´s a Jump and Run - you´d love to see the code, I know. More details please? eg. name of game, system it runs on? >Anyone seen the arcade game "whack-a-mole"; and/or similar games? Sounds like the Elektor TV Games Computer game "Molebasher". >Are new "made on a real console" screenshots or grabs a Very Good Thing for this community to have? They are for me, as I need to assure myself that the emulator matches with the screenshots (I don't have a real system to compare against). (Especially with regard to the VC4000 and TVGC, which don't yet have very good compatibility; the EA2001 emulation is already 99% OK as far as I can tell.) #2102 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:20 pm Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "Russ Perry, Jr." wrote: > > I can't really speak to this from a technological standpoint, > but I like the idea... Coolness! > Not even so much that it's kind of a neat idea > (though a USB RAM cart would probably be better > in this day and age), Sounds great, Russ! Go for it! ... just be aware that *I* won't be doing that! ;-) Realistically, in "this day and age" everyone's playing with a Wii or a Playstation 697 -- or whatever they're up to now. No thanks: not my thing. I'm happy just Frankenstein'ing 1980's hardware ... for the fun that gives me. If I want to play with modern stuff, I'll plug in and turn on one of those cute little Jakks Pacific joystick TV games. (With few exceptions, I like those better than these games, anyway.) And as I said originally, to me, a project like this should start with the idea of being "easily available" and "easily used". Those are huge selling points, for me. Anything fancier is twelve steps backwards, as far as I'm concerned. Let's not dream ... let's DO! I like coming up with quick little "makes sense" projects. Get the idea; check that it might work; then do it. The "new me" feels if it's gonna take me more than a couple of weekends to bash something together -- during which I'd take a few pics, and scribble a few notes; to write about it later -- then the new, post-retirement me just isn't very interested. The personal payoff's not there. I'd have much more fun reading books; listening to CD's; watching movies .... Let's not complicated this. Think "short attention span". Let's keep the specs for this stuff dirt cheap; easily do-able; and relaxing. > but more so that "Starpath" began as "Arcadia" > until Emerson showed up using the same name for > the 2001! Definitely some minor appeal there -- I thunked'a'that, too. The silly "EmerCharger" name just flat appeals to me. I can picture the device ... and that makes me want to get one, and Frankenstein it. -- Ward Shrake -- #2103 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:38 pm Subject: Re: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH on Ebay > Sounds like the Elektor TV Games Computer game "Molebasher". ... and in the Fiction Writing Workshop I just got back from an hour ago, the point was made that modern movies are largely just re-hashes of stuff that Shakespeare wrote; and even he was copying stuff from ages before he was born. As long as people had campfires, they had stories. My point is: we need to start somewhere. And that idea is do-able. I don't want to starve to death, while I wait for steak and lobster. If peanut butter, jelly and bread are nearby ... it's fine with me! James -- not to pick on you, but when I left the scene five years ago, you didn't have any "real console". You still don't. I'd be willing to PayPal you $10 USD to help you buy yourself one. I think you need one, if you're going to continue tweaking your emulators. I'm too scientific to think that guessing or hoping is a good plan. Group -- If I did that, would anyone else chip in? I think that's one of the other main things this group needs to do, to "move forward". I don't want to say life should all be about production, because I don't believe that. I don't want to imply it's all about consumption, either. But if we're gonna talk about producing stuff, as a group; and then talk about consuming things, as a group ... then let's do both. If we're all just gonna kid ourselves, and talk and talk and talk, with no actual intent of doing any of what we say -- then my interest is fizzling way out, already. I'd much rather write some fiction; read books; play with my dogs; watch a sunset; take walks ... No offense meant, folks ... and just my two cents! I leave it to the group, to decide what they want to do. Meanwhile, I have a novel I need to read, as my weekly assignment for that Fiction Writing Workshop! (I also have a how-to article I said I'd write, for the "Internet Modeler" web site. If you folks don't hear from me for a few days, don't panic -- I'm just busy doing other stuff!) -- Ward Shrake -- #2104 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:41 pm Subject: Re: Question -- are new "real console" screenshots desirable? ward_shrake wrote: > --- "James Jacobs" wrote: >> By the way, does anyone here read Retro Gamer >> magazine? If so, check out issue #27, page 20. >> The screenshot of Hobo is awful (taken with Robson >> emulator) but at least the text is positive... :-) > > > I'm approaching my future gaming projects as a "for myself; but shared > (when possible)" sort of thing. In that vein, what I plan to do is > this: continue with my Hardware Hack to get nice clean composite video > out of my Leisure-Vision console. (Basically just solder it up; instead > of using temporary jumper wires.) I would have to (a) get that working > 100%, and then (b) find time away from other things ... such as a > Fiction Writing Workshop I signed up for, that starts tomorrow and > lasts for eight weeks ... then I'll try to make screengrabs for the > whole ROM library: using my personal multi-cart and a "real system". There might still be some unknown differences between some console families were good screenshots might help: * video inversion in every variant * authentic pal and ntsc color palettes (SECAM?) * exact ntsc and pal video timing (especially horizontal timing on background color switches) Peter PS: if I remember correctly my PC card doesn't get good screenshots from a Palladium VCG #2105 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:38 pm Subject: Re: Question -- are new "real console" screenshots desirable? Bill -- good to hear from ya, bud! Glad you're back with us, too. Having your web site back online would be Cool Beans; definitely! If it had more screenshots ... coolness, there, too. (But yeah: real life has gotta come first! Especially when one has dependents!) On screenshots: I think I'm gonna take Peter's (implied) advice, and go through with my plan to make more screenshots, from a US / NTSC machine. Having looked over MPT-03 circuitry, it's another PC board, entirely. Different etching mask pattern, I mean. Enought subtle stuff probably going on, there, to make re-grabbing the library a worthwhile thing to do ... if only to look for tiny differences, etc. -- Ward Shrake -- #2106 From: "Bill" Date: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:23 pm Subject: Re: Question -- are new "real console" screenshots desirable? Tell me about it! As I'm pretty sure you are more than acutely aware, as the demands of Real Life grow, somethings gotta give! I do admit though, I did buy myself (its for the kids, honest!) a Wii..the main appeal for me was the titles available for the virtual console, so its packed to the gills with SNES, Megadrive etc goodness. Not quite the Arcadia vintage, but its great for a quick retro fix. Galaga, Golden Axe and Ghouls N Ghosts have been getting a workout lately! We have a fair selection of Wii games too, but the only time I tend to play those is when I get roped in for a multiplayer with the kids, or a game of Smarty Pants with the Mrs. (Trivia games aren't really my bag either. Trivial Pursuit for me is as much fun as having my tongue run down a cheese grater) I also picked myself up an old JAMMA arcade cab, minus game board. I am in the process of rigging a PC running MAME into the controllers, but I don't want to cut/remove any of the original wiring, I want to leave it intact so I can unplug the PC and slot a JAMMA board straight in. I got one of the keyboard interfaces (Key Wizard from memory) and a JAMMA edge connector, and made an adapter, so the JAMMA harness can be connected to the keyboard connector on the PC. Works like a treat so far, but its a little fragile, so it needs to be taken out and beefed up. The coin slot even works - drop in coins and to the PC, it looks like a 1 or 2 keypress --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "ward_shrake" wrote: > > Bill -- good to hear from ya, bud! Glad you're back with us, too. > > Having your web site back online would be Cool Beans; definitely! If > it had more screenshots ... coolness, there, too. (But yeah: real > life has gotta come first! Especially when one has dependents!) > > On screenshots: I think I'm gonna take Peter's (implied) advice, and > go through with my plan to make more screenshots, from a US / NTSC > machine. Having looked over MPT-03 circuitry, it's another PC board, > entirely. Different etching mask pattern, I mean. Enought subtle > stuff probably going on, there, to make re-grabbing the library a > worthwhile thing to do ... if only to look for tiny differences, etc. > > -- Ward Shrake -- #2107 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:35 pm Subject: More technical (picture) uploads from Ward See the "Files > ROM dumping" and "Files > Hardware_information" areas, on the main web site for the group. I just uploaded four more pictures to those areas. You'll find two of the adapter cables I had wired up, ages ago; back when I was actively dumping Emerson (and other) carts for others. (Bill, you think your JAMMA adapter is crude or delicate? Ha! Try lining up Emerson carts, in the card edge connector slot from a PC's floppy drive system! A bit tricky, at times!) Also, you'll find a pic of the MPT-03 prototype multi-cart that I had made, years ago. (Had it running through one of those cables, to my old Leisure-Vision, to make sure it worked.) Also, one more original Emerson cart board style. -- Ward Shrake -- 2108 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Jan 18, 2008 7:46 pm Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? On adapting a Starpath Supercharger, to the pinout of an Emerson (clone): I just uploaded a pic called "board-05.jpg" (or close to it) to the "Files > Hardware_information" part of the group's web site. It is only one minor variant: other "long board" styles also exist. To me, these boards look appealing for hardware hacks that involve using the card edge connectors, primarily: while giving plenty of "solder on a new wire, here" room, above the point where each cart slots in.) In other words, for what I have in mind, I'm thinking "ignore everything above the little notches in the sides, that hold the board inside the plastic case. Anything above that could be hacked off, and/or ignored.) My initial idea on adapting the Atari 2600's Starpath Supercharger, to become an "EmerCharger," is to take an Emerson cart's plastic case, and use the bottom portion of it; along with the lower end of a cart board in a style similar to that picture I just uploaded ... and to hack the two off at a certain point; epoxy them together (with extra supports); and run wire jumpers, to connect the Supercharger's pins to where the Emerson wants them to go. Assuming Murphy and his Laws stayed away, for the most part ... that is, if the idea worked, it seems like it would be a relatively easy and fast way to adapt pre-proven technology, into becoming a development system for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 system. What sayest thou, oh ye of technical inclination? -- Ward Shrake -- #2109 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:44 am Subject: Re: Random thoughts > "just cut a few traces, jumper a few wires around, > and have an 8k cart" Yup, just what I did to get the EPROM emulator to work, although I started at 2k (not knowing how little that really was); I got 4, maybe 5 screens of text, and ran out of memory for the game! Charlie #2110 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:49 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? Don't know what a "StarCharger" is, but that kind of stuff is, as you may have guessed, my forte. How about a set of common text, sound, joystick, etc libraries that would be publicly available, (created by us, for us) that would be compatible with whatever hardware thingy we choose to use. That would be the start of the joint project. Sort of like a PC with Linux like they use for the Playstation (aggh!.. Did I really say the "P"-word. Charlie #2111 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Jan 22, 2008 11:53 am Subject: Re: Super Bug MPT-03 / Advision console / TENNIS YANNICK NOAH on Ebay So, maybe updating/improving the software emulators is one of the joint projects? Charlie #2112 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Jan 22, 2008 1:33 pm Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "charliee1151" wrote: > > Don't know what a "StarCharger" is, but > that kind of stuff is, as you may have > guessed, my forte. Here's an entry for that device, over on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starpath_Supercharger It plugged into an Atari 2600 machine; had 6k of what amounts to an EPROM simulation system, already built into it and working; it loaded code into it through an external cable (from a tape player then, or a CD player or PC sound card or whatever, these days); and sells in the rough neighborhood of $25 bucks, if you find a bare one that works. (I could be off on that price; correct me if I am, guys!) > How about a set of common text, sound, > joystick, etc libraries that would be > publicly available, (created by us, for > us) that would be compatible with > whatever hardware thingy we choose to > use. That would be the start of the > joint project. Sort of like a PC with > Linux like they use for the Playstation > (aggh!.. Did I really say the "P"-word. I think that sounds like a fine idea, Charlie! Having read the last several hundred postings (they're all stored at the group's web site) in a matter of days, I think you'd be the main one behind such a big project. I'm surprised more people didn't jump on your coding wagon, long ago. I wasn't around then (I started this group, but then left all of retro-gaming for about five years) but when I was reading the older (2003-2008) postings to catch up, I thought, "Oh, cool! Here's a guy that's gonna really get the ball rolling!" Alas, as we know, it looks like most other folks were reluctant to join in the fun. (Far be it from me to guilt-trip folks! Don't wanna do that. But I am saying that windows of opportunity do close; and it's best to take advantage of such windows, when they open. As they're doing now!?) Charlie, I suspect you and I would have to "plant the seed" as far as hardware goes, and hope others chimed in, in that way. There are some guys here that could; but maybe excitement builds faster when it's not just one guy feeling "this is a me, by myself, deal"? Maybe. I strongly suspect you'd pretty much be the main guy working on code libraries for the real consoles, at first, Charlie ... with mainly just James working on stuff for emulation, for now, it seems? (The other guys that were once into the emulation scene seemingly did what I did: retired?) Personally, I'm all for the idea of doing stuff on a real console; and having emu's catch up to the real console, over time. I still think we ought to chip in and get James a real console. Not trying to knock or badmouth anyone. Just saying that twenty guys are not likely to beat each other up, trying to out-hardware or out- software each other, every day, as far as these consoles go. Having seen the group's history from the start, I think pushes are needed, from time to time. Folks tend to want someone else to get the ball rolling; and this being a tiny group, maybe everyone waits? Just my two cents, mind you! -- Ward Shrake -- #2113 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 6:51 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? Well, here's my nickle: I haven't thought this through throughly (hey, how about that alliteration!), but what brought it to mind was the annoying necessity to use non-ASCII text. I wrote my demo program to use ASCII, so that I could make the text instructions easy to type in the code; like "Press Left Button", as opposed to something like "db. 0x45" or whatever. The program converted the ASCII to the Arcadia character codes for display. But the memory requirements for the conversion is quite excessive, and may not be the best way to go (unless we can be sure we have "high-kb" carts -- or are we talking PC emulator only?). So, I was thinking of making a program like SpriteMaker, but for text (TextMaker?). You would type in your text phrases, in ASCII, and it would produce ASM compatible outputs for cut-and-paste direct use into your program. Following that path, would there be a need for a SongMaker(?) that would let you somehow select notes and durations for sound, and it would make ASM compatible output data? And JoyMaker? (you select the operation "if LeftJoy = FireButton pressed" and it creates the 5 or so code lines that read the proper register, mask off various bits and do the compare, that you can cut-and-paste into your program), and ...? And, if there is a difficulty in obtaining that hardware thing, can we make one in a manner that let's us all duplicate it using local suppliers? It is not difficult to make a PC-parallel-port-to-PROM-socket converter; it is probably not to difficult to make a USB-to-PROM-socket converter. But is that a practical way to go if some here are not technically inclined, or part availability is a problem? We'd have to make a Heathkit (remember them?) kind of process to make sure all could participate. And what about cost? etc, etc Charlie #2114 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 9:18 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? charlie@..., on Wed, 23 Jan 2008 at 14:51:45, wrote: >> Well, here's my nickle: >> Certainly, Charlie, what you had to say was more than a nickle! I'd say that was at LEAST a quarter or a fifty-cent piece worth of posting. Good for you! >> I haven't thought this through throughly (hey, how about that alliteration!), >> I like this. I'm not sure if you meant to start out your posting by giving me a smile, but it works. >> but what brought it to mind was the annoying necessity to use non-ASCII text. >> I'd forgotten about that. I wonder, if a header file could be created to do this conversion for you, this way no other program would be needed? The ASCII text that you type could be in a macro (I don't even remember if the 2650 assembler even SUPPORTS macros). Of course, your idea of an external converter (TextMaker)is a good one too. The advantage of macros would be that the source code would have readable ASCII. The advantage of a text converter would be that there would be no need to use a header file. It would also allow the programmer to skip placing comments in his code to remember exactly what the text says. >> or are we talking PC emulator only? >> No way. I've always like what you can do on the REAL hardware. >> SongMaker(?) that would let you somehow select notes and durations for sound, and it would make ASM compatible output data? >> I was using a tool recently that helps you to type Spectrum BASIC code (the program is called BASin). There is a utility included that allows you to place notes on a music scale. When you're done it converts it to code for the BEEP command. Pretty neat. On the Astrocade there was an in-house Nutting Associates program called STWEEK that allowed the programmer to create music that would be playable using the on-board ROM Play command (too bad no one has any idea how to use it-- there are no instructions). A SongMaker program would be pretty neat! >> And JoyMaker? (you select the operation "if LeftJoy = FireButton pressed" and it creates the 5 or so code lines that read the proper register, mask off various bits and do the compare, that you can cut-and-paste into your program) >> That's neat too... but probably not needed. If you're going to go CRAZY though-- it couldn't hurt. >> if there is a difficulty in obtaining that hardware thing, can we make one in a manner that let's us all duplicate it using local suppliers? >> As odd as it sounds, the Starpath SuperCharger is pretty easy to find. I used to have four of them... all of which I had found in the wild for a buck or two. No one has talked about the SuperCharger's software. Even if the Supercharger is electronically compatible (with an adapter)-- which is still in question, the hardware requires special software on the Atari 2600 to load the program into the adapter's memory. It also requires a program on the PC to load the program into the adapter. The already-written PC programs by Bob Colbert are called Makebin and MakeWav. The Makebin program wouldn't be needed because it converts tape files to binary files (to archive old tape programs). The MaveWav program takes the binary files and creates a WAV file that can be played out to the Supercharger. The MakeWav program might have to be adapted for a use with Arcadia code, but the source-code for MakeWav IS available. As for the Arcadia side... that program would have to be written from scratch. Then there is the 6K limit of the Supercharger. True, 6K is 3/4 of all the ROM that the Arcadia can see anyway... but it still isn't 8K. Still PLENTY of games were written in 2K and 4K! Using the Supercharger as a development system is REALLY easy. I wrote an article about changing graphics on the Atari VCS back in April 1999. It talks about either using an emulator or the Supercharger to play your game. Check out how easy it is to use the Supercharger and software: http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Server/2990/ocgs/issue12/vcsgraph.html >> It is not difficult to make a PC-parallel-port-to-PROM-socket converter; it is probably not too difficult to make a USB-to-PROM-socket converter. >> I think that this takes away from the spirit of what Ward has in mind, that is, taking available hardware and adapting it for the Arcadia. Once you start shooting for the the moon this can all just become pipe dreams. If you aim your sights lower, then you have a target which you can hit. >> But is that a practical way to go if some here are not technically inclined, or part availability is a problem? >> When coding for the Arcadia (or any clasic system) you do have to be technically inclined, even if just a BIT, at least if you plan to run your code on the real machine. If you're only going to use emulators, then that's a different story. Then again, I did write a "letter" for my friend Chris in 2000 and Sean Kelly made it into a cartridge for me (Sean sent me back an Asteroids game that played my "letter." I peeled off the Asteroids label-- not an easy chore-- and put my own label on it. Then I gave the cartridge to Chris for Christmas.). If a classic game programmer ONLY plans to use emulators then no hardware experience is needed. In that case, you are RIGHT. Even the easiest to solder together kit would be out of reach for someone with no soldering skills. >> We'd have to make a Heathkit (remember them?) >> Yes, but just barely. As a kid in junior-high school I used to receive their kits catalog-- it was SO cool. There was a really cool robot in the catalog called HERO 2000 that cost about $1,000 (I THINK-- it was certainly out of reach of my funds (and ability) at the time-- and actually, even now). Here's two links about these robots: http://www.hero2000robots.com/index2.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HERO_(robot) >> [make sure that] all could participate. And what about cost? >> I wouldn't be able to use anything like this until the Summer. The great thing about the cost is that if you CAN use just the Supercharger and an adapter, it would be inexpensive (say, less than fifty dollars-- all depending on the adapter and the the cost of the Supercharger). Currently there are two Superchargers on Ebay if you want to check them out. I like this thread. Hey, Ward is back and people are talking again! Adam Trionfo #2115 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Jan 23, 2008 11:49 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? Yes, I realize the impracticality of some of these. Things like text, and maybe music, are generally non-standard; that is, they will vary widely from game to game. So, an external prog to make that easy for you would probably be desirable. For text, the original ASCII would be included as a comment, along with the hex of the char values for the code, of course. Likewise for the sound; comments would include note values and duration. For things like a joystick, well, once you have the 5 "magic" lines of code, it's good forever. So, that code may become an API library entry, rather than a separate generator program. Then you can either make those 5 lines an in-line code option, or a call-with-return value. (Yes, that raises other questions, like which register to return the value in, etc) But resolving these questions is the whole purpose of developing a standard library in the first place, namely, once it's done, it's DONE. This is all just brainstorming, thinking out loud. But there will have to be hardware there someplace, whether it's a carved up cart, adapter cables, or a custom made thingy. I'll check out that link... Charlie #2116 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 2:34 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > But resolving these questions is the whole purpose > of developing a standard library in the first place, > namely, once it's done, it's DONE. > > This is all just brainstorming, thinking out loud. But it's pretty darn good brainstorming, Charlie, so keep it up! This is just my dos centavos worth, mind you, but my take on things -- as the guy that once started this whole place -- is that you're now as official a Head of the Game Programming Department, as the group is ever likely to come across. Congratulations! (But see footnote.) That being the case, I think you ought to make up any darn rules you want, as you go along; and code up whatever you wish, whenever you are so inclined. Just don't expect others to jump all over it, in a speedy manner: this console's history hasn't been good, that way! I guess I'm saying, as a fan of the children's story "The Little Red Hen," that whomever is making the meal gets to decide who eats it. And in this case, not only that, but gets to choose the menu, too. In a weird sense, Charlie, you're almost the entire second generation of homebrew programmers for this console, right now. PeT and Adam and others did a bit of coding, five years or more ago ... and you'd be knocked over, I think, if you had any idea how poorly documented any of the machine was, back then. Paul Robson, as I recall, coded up an emulator that at least did SOMETHING, based largely on info from the carts then dumped; and a handful of then-unverified, fan-made pinouts and the like. He didn't even HAVE a real console, to test against (as I recall it now: whatever I said in my DPCG#7 entry is verified info; it's been five years or so, and my memory on some things is rusty.) One other feather in Paul's cap: he didn't have access to many of the game ROM's, at all, in the beginning of his emulation project. I just looked up the date of the text file he included with his emulator: 30 July 1998. Having kept track of who dumped what, and when, I can tell you that at that point in time only 12 Emerson carts had been dumped. So, I have to say "WOW!!!" all over again, when I think of what Paul pulled off; and with what handicaps?! I personally couldn't write any emulator, period: let alone one for a game machine that was so badly documented, ten years ago: and that had several custom one-off chips. An aside: those first 12 carts were archived by Jay Tilton. He had figured out the Emerson family pinout; with, as I recall, a bit of help from an even-older exploration posted by Bruce Tomlin. My first cart dump for the Emerson family was in Sep 1998; a few months after Paul's emulator. One other guy dumped one cart, by himself, in Jan 1999. By Feb 1999 I'd confirmed an MPT-03 cart, loaned to me by Michael Davidson, was ROM-compatible with the Emerson system; and had worked out the pinout diagram for MPT-03 carts. Oct 2001 was when I confirmed Palladium carts were ROM-compatible (thanks to Stefan Piasecki's cart loan to me); and wrote up that cart-slot pinout. In Feb 2002, Retro Rene loaned me some Ormatu family carts: I dumped those and documented that cart slot pinout. All told, between Sep 1998 and Dec 2002, I dumped 38 of the Emerson, MPT-03, Palladium and/or Ormatu carts that have easily-accessible ROM images. After my "retirement" in early 2003, one mostly-verified dump and one bad dump happened ... and since then ... nada, that I'm aware of. So, on a planet filled with up to nine billion people, only 4 persons ever dumped any of these carts! I say that not to brag, mind you: but to point out that, yes, a few person's contributions can mean a lot! Paul sort of retired from working on his emulator, at some point. It always amazed me, when I'd dump a new cart, even to see "one screen". If it didn't fully play, or hung up at some point ... oh well. (How the heck could someone like Paul write an emulator that would at least TRY to do something with carts that were dumped, years later?!) Anyway, PeT later had the same problem -- no real console -- until Stefan was kind / cool enough to put a Palladium in his hands. And Sly DC sold me a Leisure-Vision, cheaply, as a partial "do something for/with it" nudge towards whatever I once did. All that adds up to my previous nudge to the group: offered to start a "chip in for Amigan" sort of thing (not that he needs anything but the push!), so he can get a real console. Talented folks are definitely out there. But this was never a very "popular" console; and every tiny little nudge, surely helps. -- Ward Shrake -- Footnote: I say that, meaning no offense whatsoever to those who have or will code primarily for emulator use. While I'm personally much more inclined towards "real console" stuff, with the idea of the emu's coming along in due time, that's just my two cents. Anybody who is willing to do anything for/with this system ought to be rewarded; at least with the occasional "atta boy" and pat on the back. Right? #2117 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 3:01 am Subject: Stupid question, about possibly making more multi-carts Hi all. A stupid question, which I'd like some feedback on. Would anyone be greatly vexed, annoyed, bothered, or badly bent out of shape, if I decided to make a few more Emerson-family multi-carts? I'm sure those who don't already have one, won't find it a bad idea! (Don't get too excited, though: even if I *did* do it -- which isn't at all certain, at this point! -- it wouldn't be any sooner than summer, I wouldn't think. Too many other things on my plate, for a few months.) I'm sort of directing this query at the Collector Types who own one of the first (and at this point, only) 34 multi-carts I once manufactured. I'm curious to know if having more of them, "out there" -- I'm thinking 16 more, maximum, so it would still only be 50 total carts made: across two production runs -- is going to be a mega- big problem for anyone? I am asking because I once said "no more, ever" ... but I also said, "I'm gone and out of here, forever" -- but here I am, back again, anyway. If I kept myself strictly to my word, I'd have to stay retired, forever. What I'm thinking -- and it's my primary personal reason to want to do it, at all, right now -- is that I'd like to upgrade the design for the boards, a bit: allowing for the more efficient memory usage that I designed into the Bally Astrocade (and my personal VIC-20) multi-carts. Right now, there's plenty of room left. Later, there may still be plenty of room left. (But one could hope for that problem?) As far as the average user of a multi-cart would be concerned, they'd likely not notice any difference. And these things are a pain to make; especially when we're talking more than one or two at a time. I think I'd re-do the labels, on both an "I'm sort of bored with the old one, personally" basis; and to differentiate the first run of 34, from the later run of ?? to 16 multi-carts. I'd also have to say that I might play the "sale price" thing by ear, as well ... perhaps favoring those folks who've done something that I feel has been helpful in pushing the homebrew scene forward? :-) Just kind of thinking out loud, here. No promises! (Or threats.) -- Ward Shrake -- #2118 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:15 am Subject: RE: Stupid question, about possibly making more multi-carts >> Would anyone be greatly vexed, annoyed, bothered, or badly bent out of shape, if I decided to make a few more Emerson-family multi-carts? >> If you made multicarts again I'd be REALLY upset. Please, Ward, I beg you, don't make any more multicarts. All that a multicart does is make people want to PLAY the system. The Emerson family of consoles should be either part of someones collection-- not played, but PRIZED, or they should be collecting dust back in a garage or closet. I can't fathom the idea of people being able to play the games. After all of these years, why would anyone want to do THAT? You know, having FUN with the system isn't the point of collecting-- it's the possession of the object that is important. Your multicart would just encourage people to want to investigate the game console that hardly made a blip on the screen (uh, unless you count that there are about a hundred damn variants of it around the world!). Man, the nerve of you coming out and asking a question like that! Bury the multicart. Forever. Uh, do I have to even say it? I'm kidding, of course. Make some multicarts-- if it does you fine. Just be careful not to work yourself to death for no reason. I KNOW how much blood, sweat and tears goes into each cartridge-- I'd hate to see you burn yourself out again. Take it slow, my friend, take it S L O W . . . Adam #2119 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 7:54 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? Ward Shrake, on Fri 1/25/08 at 2:34 AM, wrote: >> In a weird sense, Charlie, you're almost the entire second generation of homebrew programmers for this console, right now. >> Though I've read most of the postings over the years, would someone please give a summary of all the homebrew games for this system for me? How many? What are the names? None was ever released in a cartridge format, right? >> So, on a planet filled with up to nine billion people, only 4 persons ever dumped any of these carts! I say that not to brag, mind you: but to point out that, yes, a few person's contributions can mean a lot! >> Agreed. Just one person can make a huge difference in the "history" of some obscure console. Really, the Emerson family isn't even that obscure compared to other systems out there. At least people have HEARD of it. Most collectors have even SEEN it. Yet, there is only one small message group dedicated to it. If you make even ONE posting here, then you've made a dent into this console's history. Strange. Adam #2121 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:44 am Subject: Why the Arcadia Family Appeals to Me (The first time I sent this all CR's and LF's were missing, which made the email VERY hard to read. I'm not sure why that happened.) The reason I like the Arcadia 2001 family of console is because it is so WEIRD. Think of this: 1) History - It has the most convoluted history of any console that has ever existed... or that ever WILL exist. It would be a coup if someone could find the original designers of this system and have an interview with them. Even more incredible than that would be if someone came forward and explained how the hell it ended up everywhere. Sure, Ward has come up with some theories (and I tend to agree with them), but there has never been any magic bullet that puts all the ducks in a row. 2) CPU - It uses the Signetics 2650 as its CPU. The WHAT?!? It's not a unique CPU for this familty only, but just about everything else that used the 2650 is related, in some way, to the Arcadia 2001 family. You certainly can't say that about the Z80 or the 6502. 3) Software - How was the whole operation set up? How did it get from one console to another. Why does it seen like some shadowy underground world worked on this, with two purposes in mind: make a quick buck and never leave a trace behind? 4) Lost Author - Andrew Choi, where are YOU? This guy put himself into the Arcadia history books just by putting his name in a game cartridge's code. It took him about a minute to do; now he'll be known forever... even if he doesn't know this. 5) Joystick Confusion - On some of this family's systems the joysticks auto center. Some don't. Some are analog. Some are analog/digital confusion. Some suck. Some don..., no, wait, they all suck. 6) Cartridge Releases - Oh, we can't release Crazy Climber in the U.S.? Fine, we'll release it someplace that you don't even KNOW that this system exists. So, there! 7) Spin - 28K of RAM. 'Nuf said. 8) Worldwide Release - How cool is it that members of this message group are all talking to each other from all over the entire world? Sure, it happens on other systems too, but this communication across the Earth bore fruit for this system. Hell, it bore a FAMILY. Without the Internet I don't see how anyone could have discovered that totally different systems released the world over were really, inside, the same. Ah, what a lovely story. These are MY reasons. I'm sure that for some of you its the memories of playing the system when you were younger. For some other people its the technical appeal of figuring-out what makes this machine tick. For others, well... I don't know. What are some of YOUR reasons for liking this system? It certainly isn't because its so popular with all of your friends! Adam #2122 From: "Stefan Piasecki" Date: Mon Jan 28, 2008 7:50 am Subject: VERY interesting current Ebay auctions FUNKY FISH etc. Hi, friends of RARE Arcadia games that have only been released in Europe should check the following auctions out: 160201131777 : Pack includes 3D Soccer, Hobo, Capture and some others 200195688463 : Pack includes FUNKY FISH and some others plus a console I consider these to be must have games for serious collectors. Stefan #2123 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:35 pm Subject: Re: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? On 1/26/08, *Adam Trionfo* > wrote: Ward Shrake, on Fri 1/25/08 at 2:34 AM, wrote: >> In a weird sense, Charlie, you're almost the entire second generation of homebrew programmers for this console, right now. >> Though I've read most of the postings over the years, would someone please give a summary of all the homebrew games for this system for me? How many? What are the names? None was ever released in a cartridge format, right? There are three: JTron and Frogger by myself, and Tetris by PeT. Charlie also started work on a game "Boxer" but this was not completed (only the intro + instructions) so I would regard that one as more of an "example" than a game, at the present time. None have ever been made into carts AFAIK. Regards James #2124 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:21 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? No need to be kind. An example is exactly what is it. It was my first attempt to write code for the 2001, and I intended it as a learning experience, not a professional program. And it definitely is NOT! The code flow was designed to make the learning process as simple as possible, so no complex coding schemes were used. For example, pressing the joystick fire button. If the program required the fire button to be read five times during play, I wrote 5 identical, in-line joystick routines; I did not use a subroutine. Likewise for the sprites and text; each was redefined on-the-fly with in-line code. I did this to simplify the understanding of each piece of code; it's a lot easier to follow if you don't have to jump around the source code looking for subroutines, etc. It is definitely NOT game material. And of course that explains why I ran out of memory so fast (DUH!) As an aside, since the game actually revolved around a boxboy picking- up and stacking boxes, the name "BOXER" is probably not the best choice. I chose it because I couldn't fit 6 letters on the screen comfortably in the splash screen. Charlie #2125 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 9:46 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? >> As an aside, since the game actually revolved around a boxboy picking- up and stacking boxes, the name "BOXER" is probably not the best choice. I chose it because I couldn't fit 6 letters on the screen comfortably in the splash screen. >> Having not seen the program I just presumed that it was a boxing game! Maybe you could have calleded it Stack-- that's five letters-- though I DO like the name BoxBoy Better! Adam #2126 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 12:34 pm Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: [re: Homebrew games] > There are three: JTron and Frogger by myself, > and Tetris by PeT. Charlie also started work > on a game "Boxer" but this was not completed > (only the intro + instructions) so I would > regard that one as more of an "example" than > a game, at the present time. None have ever > been made into carts AFAIK. Good to know what's out there, homebrew-wise. The JTron and Tetris games did technically make it into a cartridge format; but just barely. I burned a few (three or four) EPROMs for my multi-cart set-up, with the earliest (?) versions of JTron and Tetris on them. Never burned Frogger: that was coded after my "retirement". As I recall it now, part of the reason for burning JTron and Tetris into EPROM form was to answer "do they work on a real console" type of questions; and as I recall, both did seem to work. Amigan -- you're in a place where PAL is the dominant TV format; yes? Amigan, PeT, and Charlie -- do you guys object to me putting the latest copies of your games or example code onto the next multi-cart EPROM upgrade? (Which won't happen for a while.) I know that, early on, PeT didn't want wide release of Tetris, when it was still being actively worked on. And there may be other objections? ... so I'd rather ask, than risk making anyone upset with me. Also: where would I get the most-recent public releases of those games / examples? -- Ward Shrake -- #2127 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 1:15 pm Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: > As an aside, since the game actually > revolved around a boxboy picking-up > and stacking boxes, the name "BOXER" > is probably not the best choice. I > chose it because I couldn't fit 6 > letters on the screen comfortably in > the splash screen. Charlie -- No fair taking this the wrong way, please, but here's a (dumb) suggestion for going farther with that coding example. (Which I haven't actually yet seen; so apologies if I'm way off base, here.) What if ... The game's name was changed to "Gamer" (because "collector" would not fit on the screen) and the main idea was to first go off and find these objects, one at a time ... that part could just be a screen with a postal person putting a generically-wrapped box in a mailbox, and then a generic scene of the box being opened; and then another generic screen, with maybe some minor changes possible ... and then we "cut to" your existing code, more or less, with the person who got the package putting that one on a stack, in a room somewhere. Three possible endings: I'll get to that in a bit. The idea being: you get some game or console in the mail. You have no idea what it will be, until you open it up. You find out its a game console you don't have; and therefore, you have no cartridges for it. So, now you have to collect carts for that system. Or vice-versa: you get a cartridge in the mails, but you have no system to play it on. I suppose the different consoles could be represented with new colors? The endings would either be: you "collect everything," one cart or console at a time ... which would take a heck of a lot of trips to the mailbox! ... or you get some sort of an adapter in the mail, that makes games work on one other game system; so that speeds up the first possible ending ... or you press a button that dials a phone (another generic screen) and guys in white coats come pick you up. Just being silly here, guys! No offense meant to anyone ... just sort of thinking about how to make a game that reflects some of the ideas behind "collecting for" this console group, and all of its families. A slightly more serious example might be to combine the stuff above, with some part of the game Klax? (Delivery of colored stuff, and then the sorting and stacking of it?) -- Ward Shrake -- #2128 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 5:21 pm Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? Ward Shrake wrote: >> The endings would either be: you "collect everything," one cart or console at a time ... >> Ah. But you forget about label variations. And all the other variations that are possible to have with game consoles and cartridges. This makes the number of items needed to be collected infinite. Therefore, the game can not be made with only 8K-- it would need at LEAST one terabyte of memory to make the game you suggest (even then, that's a conservative estimate). So, unless you ungrade the Arcadia 2001 family the game will have to remain in our imagination. You think I'm kidding? No, I'm serious. Really. Adam #2129 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Jan 30, 2008 7:33 pm Subject: Goofy game ideas --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Ah. But you forget about (...) Believe me, I didn't. Remember the part at the end, with the looney bin? Actually, I was thinking about that game idea, today ... what about a two-player competitive version? Split-screen, maybe: upper and lower? Each player has to take everything that comes in the mail (so to speak); but after a certain amount of points, can give one item away ... and it's guaranteed to go to the other player, within a few (random amount of) turns. That would mean if you got a console, but no carts to go with it, you'd want to get rid of that console; right? So, you shove it into the out-going mail, and wipe the sweat off your brow ... and get back to collecting the carts you need for YOUR game console. Meanwhile, the other person is trying to mess you up, too; while completing their own collection. Sort of like Tapper, except not. -- Ward Shrake -- #2132 From: Peter Trauner Date: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:44 pm Subject: Re: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? ward_shrake wrote: > Amigan, PeT, and Charlie -- do you guys object to me putting the > latest copies of your games or example code onto the next multi-cart > EPROM upgrade? (Which won't happen for a while.) I know that, early > on, PeT didn't want wide release of Tetris, when it was still being > actively worked on. And there may be other objections? ... so I'd > rather ask, than risk making anyone upset with me. Also: where would > I get the most-recent public releases of those games / examples? Tetris: you may put in on your multicards. As far as I remember I haven't changed anything on it after your NTSC testrun, still the awful music. PeT #2134 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Feb 1, 2008 11:12 pm Subject: Off-topic (sort of) -- ColecoVision port of Astro Invader Just thought I'd post a "Thanks!" in reply to PeT and Charlie; for their permission to put their code onto my next multi-cart upgrade. Also: Adam T. mentioned a port of Astro Invader; from the arcade game to the Coleco Vision. I wonder if the more-mainstream Atari / Coleco collectors even know that was a game ported over to the Emerson system (and eighty-zillion clones?) back in the early 1980's? Here are links to two interviews, by the person that did the ColecoVision port job. http://www.coleconation.com/050802.html http://www.coleconation.com/050903.html -- Ward Shrake -- #2135 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sun Feb 3, 2008 2:56 pm Subject: Re: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? That's fine with me. The EA2001 Software Pack (at EA2001 Central) (http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/a-softwa.zip) has the latest versions of the games. If you want to put the examples (ie. the homebrew non-games) on, that's fine too; they are in the Examples Pack (http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/examples.zip). Regards James On 2/1/08, *Peter Trauner* wrote: ward_shrake wrote: > Amigan, PeT, and Charlie -- do you guys object to me putting the > latest copies of your games or example code onto the next multi-cart > EPROM upgrade? (Which won't happen for a while.) I know that, early > on, PeT didn't want wide release of Tetris, when it was still being > actively worked on. And there may be other objections? ... so I'd > rather ask, than risk making anyone upset with me. Also: where would > I get the most-recent public releases of those games / examples? Tetris: you may put in on your multicards. As far as I remember I haven't changed anything on it after your NTSC testrun, still the awful music. PeT #2136 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Sun Feb 3, 2008 3:21 pm Subject: Elektor TVGC interview Hello all, I am in contact with Manfred Saliger, author of the Elektor TVGC "Lotto" program. I was thinking I might ask him if he was willing to do an interview...does anyone have any questions that they would like to submit? Regards James #2137 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Mon Feb 4, 2008 7:08 am Subject: RE: Elektor TVGC interview James wrote: >> Hello all, I am in contact with Manfred Saliger, author of the Elektor TVGC "Lotto" program. >> Wow, how did you bump into him? >> I was thinking I might ask him if he was willing to do an interview...does anyone have any questions that they would like to submit? >> Yes. Here are several questions: 1) I presume that he built the TV Games Computer. Right? If not, where did he aquire it? 2) What made him choose THAT computer? Price? The thrill of building a computer from scratch? Someone else that he knew that had one? 3) Was he aware that later cosoles used the 2650 CPU? 4) Did he go into programming at all on other computers? What was his next computer AFTER the TVGC? 5) What made him choose to write "Lotto?" Uh, was he able to win with it and retire ;-)? 6) Did he rub shoulders with other TVGC users are the time? Was there a user group or anything like that? 7) When did he first get the TVGC? When did he stop using it? Does he still have it? I like hearing from people like this; they usually have FAR more to say than they could think possible. They were there in the beginning, and it makes a lot of what they say very interesting to people that were not there at the time. Ward, I'm sure you can think of some additional questions to ask. Adam #2138 From: "charliee1151" Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 6:49 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? By the way, does anyone know if: a. The supercharger will physically fit into the 2001 cart slot? b. The supercharger will electrically match the 2001 cart pinouts? If either one of the above is a NO, won't that mean a cable/adapter? If so, how will the "electronically challenged" handle that? It would still mean soldering and etc. Or maybe would the cable be cheap enough that someone would not mind assembling and donating some? In short, has anyone followed up on this, and/or though it through more fully? Charlie #2139 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 3:20 pm Subject: Re: RE: Elektor TVGC interview On 2/5/08, *Adam Trionfo* wrote: James wrote: >> Hello all, I am in contact with Manfred Saliger, author of the Elektor TVGC "Lotto" program. >> Wow, how did you bump into him? He emailed me that I had misspelt his name in the Gaming Guide :-) I've asked him if he is willing to do an interview. Re. multicarts, I forgot to mention that there are some "enhanced" games (eg. Alien Invaders with different backgrounds and no startup wait, Space Squadron with in-game messages, Video Chess without the annoying scrolling, etc., Golf fixed so that it will run on the multicart) in the Enhancements Pack at the site, Ward is of course welcome to put any of these on the next multicart if desired. Regards James #2140 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Tue Feb 5, 2008 3:22 pm Subject: RE: Elektor TVGC interview In that case, maybe we should spell all of these hard-to-find programmer's name's wrong! Adam #2141 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:17 pm Subject: Re: Elektor TVGC interview He has agreed to do an interview, if anyone has any more questions for him please post them in the next 48 hours and I will submit them all together at that time. Regards James #2142 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Feb 20, 2008 7:59 pm Subject: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board I just uploaded a photo, to the temp section of the web site: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/ Temporary_files/ It's of an odd Cat Trax cart. See the notes with the file, for more info. -- Ward Shrake -- #2143 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:10 pm Subject: RE: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board That is a weird looking chip. I wonder if there is a way to find anything about that chip (just in general). Maybe someone knows when that kind of thing is even done. I've certainly never seen anything else like that. Adam #2144 From: "charliee1151" Date: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:31 am Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board Couple of obvious items: 1> What's under the label? Does the chip itself have any markings? 2> I'd be surprised if that hole/dot is a pin 1 marker; if it was, it would typically be closer to the physical pin. But that depends upon the answer to the above question. Obviously, if you find a usuable number on the chip, that will answer a lot of questions. But, if the number is proprietary, you will have to make some assumptions. I'd check the tracking into the chip, knowing the carts pinouts, and see if, for example, the pin 1 function on the cart tracks to the normal pin 1 location, or to the dotted pin 1. (umm, I'm pretty sure you already know that stuff!) 3> Looking closer at the picture, the left end looks really scuffed up. Could it be that the cart manf deliberately removed the chip manf's info, to make duplication more difficult? In that case, maybe the single dot is the cart manf's way of identifying the know unknown chip. If the identification is intended to indicate the type of chip (2k vs 4k, etc) then different chips would have a different dot count or dot arrangement. If the identification is indended to indicate the game that is programmed on the chip, then of course, a different cart would have a chip with two dots, then three dots; a big game company would have to be creative or run out of room for dots! A lot depends on what, if anything, is under the label. Charlie #2145 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:27 pm Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board An update on that weird Cat Trax chip (one new photo): http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Temporary _files/ I destroyed the cheapie paper label, getting it off of the chip ... but oh well. It was already scanned in, and "saved" that way; so that's fine, in my book. I'm curious what others will "see" in this new scan, that shows it along with several other Cat Trax chips. There was nothing under the handwritten label, in terms of factory lettering. Note (by comparing the two photos) that the numbering is consistent: one was just written by hand, and the others were "officially" silk-screened on or whatever, onto the chip's surface; along other info of interest to chip/cart manufacturers. I measured the spacing on what I feel was the "pin one" indication. It's only 0.5 mm off, as compared to similar indentation styles, in terms of width. They're all pretty much centered, length-wise, between the first pin and the one below it. I still feel they just "mirrored" the location, accidentally -- which is easy enough to do, when you're making tooling for an injection mold set-up. Most of the relative lightness of the chip's coloring seems to be an artifact of whatever formula of epoxy (or whatever) they used, to make the black portions of the chips. Note that the round indentations seen on the chips would correspond to an injection molding machine's "ejector pins". They're just the way they would be, if the black parts were injection molded parts in a (polystyrene plastic) scale model kit ... except that the plastic or whatever it is, isn't polystyrene. It's much harder than that. Preliminary indications, the way I see them at this point, tend towards some group that wasn't in the chip manufacturing business, on anything like a huge scale, trying that out; and working bugs out as they went. I'm open to other interpretations, of course. I have no way of knowing what the label differences would be, if any: I'm not even remotely sure what cart this came out of. It was either from a pile of ones I took out of official carts, when I made my multi-carts, years ago; or (remotely possible) a recent one I bought. -- Ward Shrake -- #2146 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:33 pm Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "charliee1151" wrote: > > I'd check the tracking into the chip, knowing > the carts pinouts, and see if, for example, > the pin 1 function on the cart tracks to the > normal pin 1 location, or to the dotted pin 1. Good point, Charlie ... and if I wasn't doing the "chicken with its head off" bit, lately, I'd have mentioned already that the PC board is a standard style: a "292-1" board, that matches any other such board. The makers were pretty good about putting part numbers on all their boards; and although there are several board styles for Emerson carts, this one was just a common, non-early, garden variety masked ROM board. -- Ward Shrake -- #2147 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 5:54 am Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board "Most of the relative lightness of the chip's coloring seems to be an artifact of whatever formula of epoxy (or whatever) they used, to make the black portions of the chips." Without seeing the chip in person, I can't give a specific analysis, but I will say that the degree of scuff, and well as it's uneven appearance, is consistant with a chip that has had the silk screen data deliberately buffed off. However, if it IS such a chip, and these particular people had taken a "normal" chip and buffed it, the pin 1 designator would be in the usual place. OK, you say, maybe this is a custom IC, and the dot was deliberately placed in the "abnormal" position. But if that were the case, why not HAVE custom (and un- helpful to the public) silk screen data on the chip? But, therefore, no buffing would be required in the first place! I've got it! All you have to do is contact every chip manufacturer in the world, and ask them if, 20 years ago, they ever made a chip with the dot on the other side. Simple! Glad I could help:) Charlie #2148 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:00 am Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board Charlie wrote: >> I've got it! All you have to do is contact every chip manufacturer in the world, and ask them if, 20 years ago, they ever made a chip with the dot on the other side. Simple! Glad I could help:) >> Following Charlie's advice I used Google to get contact information for all the chip manufacturers in the world. It was a LONG list, but wouldn't you know it, my very first call hit pay dirt! It turns out that this guy named Joe used to get bored on his graveyard shift at AMD. For fun he would prototype chips every now and then to confuse future archivers. People at the time thought that he was crazy. "Who's ever gonna open-up crap games?" they asked him. He would always answer the same, "Probably some bored teenager." He would go on to say, "In the future computers will have MEGABYTES of RAM and be so fast that people will be able to play their old games on computer simulators. Even crappy systems like this secret Phillips project that will get attention. People will be playing these crap games forever!" Then he would laugh and get back to his "evil" work of throwing a monkey-wrench into every few hundred cartridges. Isn't this an amazing story? The most amazing part about it is that it is completely true. Wow! Adam #2149 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:26 am Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board Sheesh!! Are you British by any chance? Charlie #2150 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:53 am Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board Charlie asked: >> Sheesh!! Are you British by any chance? >> Nope. I was born in New York state on Long Island. Now I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico. What made you ask? The "humor" of my last posting? Adam #2151 From: "charliee1151" Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:58 am Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board Yup, that's what we call "dry humor", sometimes "tongue-in-cheek". For me, New York, Orange County, Warwick; about 40 miles north of the TappenZee. Charlie #2152 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:06 pm Subject: Re: Unusual "Cat Trax" cart circuit board --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > Without seeing the chip in person, I > can't give a specific analysis, but I > will say that the degree of scuff, and > well as it's uneven appearance, is > consistant with a chip that has had the > silk screen data deliberately buffed off. Problem with that is, I did most of the scuffing; not them. I thought I had said so in previous posts, but apparently I didn't. I edit as I go, and probably killed that part in a just-before-sending rewrite. I know I did type it up, but it's not there now; so here it is, "now". The first pic looks a lot more scuffed up than it really was. Just an artifact of the way a scanner throws light, and creates shadows if a thing isn't sitting dead flat, or things are aligned just right. In person, it didn't look nearly that scuffed up; just mildly so. But in the second pic, yes, it's really scuffed up ... because I used one of those kitchen dishwashing scrub pads on it, to get all the glue off. The thing is: if that composition was as hard as most black portions of a chip is, that worn kitchen scrub pad wouldn't have scuffed it. But I ran a hobby (razor type) blade along an edge, and only slightly discolored it; didn't cut it at all. So that plastic or epoxy or whatever is hard ... just not as hard as most chips usually are. Seems to me like whatever "formula" they were using at the time, to make the upper and lower black pieces, was soft enough to go through their chip-case-making molds, relatively easy: a slight compromise, only, in hardness. On the later chips, I'd guess they got to the point where the thicker/harder formula was used. I'm convinced it's just an early attempt to make a chip, by folks that were just getting used to the concepts. Having worked in a big modern factory (around 2000?) that mastered, molded, and packaged DVD's ... there's a lot of details that get worked out on the floor of the factory, at the last minute. You try stuff, and hope that it works. If it doesn't, you put your heads together (machine operators and the techs that support them) and you figure out what to try next. To me, it looks like they were in a rush, and didn't think it through as fully as they should have, as far as pin one indicator placement. (Molds always being backwards of what you want; a mirror image. If you forget to account for that, and put it on the correct side, as you are looking at the inner cavities of the mold tooling, then it comes out reversed, when you make the actual part.) They used less of the hardener, I'd guess, with their epoxy (or whatever) mixture -- which accounts for the slightly less black coloring, and so on. If they pulled a batch out of the mold and set it aside to harden, in too big of a hurry -- and there are many variables to such things -- then it might have picked up scuffs, before it was fully hardened. The average person would likely be surprised at how much Mickey Mouse stuff gets done, to get an order out the door, in a factory. We had to put those annoying little anti-theft devices inside the cases, on many of our DVD packaging orders. The glue never really stuck. (They came on a large roll; and the supplier eventually admitted they made a boo-boo on the formula for the glue ... but that didn't matter to us, because we couldn't wait weeks for them to fix it, and give us the stuff that should have worked in the first place.) What did we do? We stuck a big lamp near the "tape roll" as it were. It heated the roll's glue up, just enough to make it stick -- most of the time. I don't feel the chip ever had any silk screening on it, that was later removed. These guys were too cheap to go to that much work!? I think they mildly screwed up a batch of chips (cosmetically); but they decided they worked, and no one would ever know -- so run them. -- Ward Shrake -- #2153 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:26 am Subject: News -- the "APF MP-1000" machine may be an ancestor Hi all. Here's a bit of preliminary news, of possible interest to fans of this system. If you go over here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/apf_consoles_and_computers/ and register as a member of another group on Yahoo, you'll find some early talk about the possibility that UA Limited may have aquired the mold tooling they used to make the Arcadia 2001 family of consoles, from another company that tried to make a games machine; but failed. My initial study of the game machine by APF shows many similarities in terms of the plastic cases used for carts and the console itself. Even the cart slot looks (from photos) to be made of identical parts. To me, at this point, it looks like the plastic parts used with Emerson's Arcadia 2001, and the Leisure-Vision console, etc., are a modification or variant of those same parts, as used on APF's console. In other words, UAL may have decided to take pre-existing molds; change them around a little bit; make new plastic console parts that way; and then stuff that system with the cheapest possible (to manufacture, I mean) electronics they could possibly acquire. For the record, I've pretty much proven to my own satisfaction that the Arcadia's console mold tooling was modified, to make the Tele- Fever. I will get around to releasing my pics / notes, at some future point. I am actually glad I didn't release those things yet: having evidence of a three-generation tooling change would be even better! -- Ward Shrake -- #2154 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:18 pm Subject: Re: News -- the "APF MP-1000" machine may be an ancestor Confirmed! Bill L. over on the APF message boards checked his APF and Arcadia 2001 / Leisure-Vision cart cases against one another, and he says the two are exactly alike, in most respects. (He didn't know Arcadia had both styles of "doors" on the carts: sliding and open.) He also confirmed that the bottom half of the plastic case for the APF machine matches the bottom half of the Arcadia console; and the top is the only part that differs by any significant amount. So ... now we know another piece of a very confusing puzzle! (And as always, it's expanding what else we need to find out, to see it all.) -- Ward Shrake -- #2155 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 3:41 pm Subject: Re: Re: News -- the "APF MP-1000" machine may be an ancestor I didn't think we had established that UA Ltd. were a hardware company? This changes things, if they were active on the hardware side too...still I'm not convinced yet, Ward has taught me to be very sceptical :-) Regards James #2156 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:59 pm Subject: Re: News -- the "APF MP-1000" machine may be an ancestor Skeptical is good: I have no problems with that. While we're still groping in the dark somewhat, I think the new APF info may give us more clues to "What happened?" ... so it's worth pursuing, to me. As far as our prior research on UAL goes, look up two older postings on the group web site, to refresh memory on where we were years ago: #308 #1542 I think someone looked up some info relevant to that, and posted it in the FILES section, somewhere. I'll have to go look for it, again. I think it's partially clear at this point that UA Limited was into the hardware assembly end of things ... the big question to me, at this point, is whether they were doing it for themselves or under a contract from someone else. (Probably both: depends on when you look at the company?) I suspect UAL did contract-only work, at first; and possibly worked for APF -- the only site for that game console quotes someone close to the company when it was active, as saying APF owned a factory in Hong Kong -- but when APF went bankrupt / belly-up, maybe that encouraged that factory to name themselves UAL, and to go into business as more or less a self-directed company? One that had watched APF go broke by making hardware that was too expensive to allow for much of a profit margin for themselves; while the people that did the assembly work made a decent enough living? If this is even mostly true, that pushes Philips back a bit, as "the culprit". Do check out the APF consoles group. It is new, but HIGHLY active. (I'll post a link to them, and the only real APF site, in "LINKS".) -- Ward Shrake -- #2157 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:20 pm Subject: Re: News -- the "APF MP-1000" machine may be an ancestor Links posted: as threatened. If you go to the group's web site at: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/ ... and click on LINKS, you'll see a new folder I started, about the APF Imagination Machine. Especially be sure to look at the pictures page linked there: several of the plastic parts of the M-1000 game console were recently confirmed, on the other (APF) group, to be the same exact dimensions and shape as the ones for the Arcadia family. -- Ward Shrake -- #2158 From:/ "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:25 pm Subject: Re: Chris Capener -- "Funky Fish" programmer For those of you who read by e-mail and don't want to visit the main web site for the group, I'm sort of forwarding message #308, below: -- Ward Shrake -- --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "commie_fan" wrote: > > Here is what we have so far. I'm still asking > questions. He has already given us quite a bit, > and I for one am grateful for it. We are doing > what we can to make this painless for him, and > not scare him off with too many questions. > Apparently, one other researcher feels he may > have done this in the past, so we're being very > gentle. > > -- Ward Shrake -- > > > [Notes from Chris Capener, to Michael Davidson:] > > > > "Yes, I worked on Funky Fish and Jumpman Jr. (ColecoVision). > > UA Limited was a Hong Kong based company. > I think they did OEM electronics > manufacturing for various companies. > So, I believe they were the contract > manufacturer for Emerson. > > Funky Fish was the reason I first came to > Silicon Valley. I had a three month contract > to write the game for the Arcadia console. I > took a leave of absence from my current job > and moved out to the San Jose, CA area. > > During that time I met a programmer at StarPath > and took a job there when Funky Fish was done. > StarPath was later bought out by Epyx, where I > ported Jumpman Jr. from the Commodore to > Colecovision. > > All these games were written in assembly > language. So porting meant playing it on > one console and then writing the code and > re-creating the graphics for the target system. > > Once I was here in Silicon Valley, > I never went back." > > > > [Notes from Chris Capener, to Ward Shrake:] > > > > "This goes back a long time. I remember having > the arcade game and some notes to work from. > > A former college roommate was related to an > officer (president?) of UA. He approached me > with the contract offer. > > I had a development system from Signetics with > manuals for the processor and chipset of the > console. I did not have contact with > any other programmers. > > It was pretty much learn as you go. I believe > that some utility routines and sample code came > with the development system. > > Sorry, I have no information on licensing or > other ports of the games." > > [end of notes] #2159 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:40 pm Subject: Re: Programmer of Grand Slam Tennis found For those of you who read by e-mail and don't want to visit the main web site for the group, I'm sort of forwarding message #1542, below. Because it's kinda long, here's the most important old research bit: > UA was Universal Appliance if I remember. > Somewhere I have a copy of their stationary > and will look for it. > > UA was a Hong Kong contract manufacturing > company. Before making the console they > made walkie-talkies, telephones, (mostly > for Radio Shack) and stuff like that. When > they first started out all the designs came > ready to go even including production jigs > from their OEM customer. > > Over time they moved a bit upscale, first > adding production engineering (and > reengineering for cost reduction) and about > the time of the video game limited design > engineering. I visited their place on a > number of occasions and I am pretty sure > the games were their first software project > ever. This would mean UAL was primarily a hardware assembly company, at one point. Since we now know that the APF console, which predated the Arcadia 2001 by a significant margin (it was first put out in 1979) was used as a starting point for the creation of the Arcadia 2001's plastic parts (cart cases were apparently used as-is; and the bottom of the console also was; with only the upper console housing being all that different in style or appearance -- and not by much!) this would all tend to imply or indicate that UAL added some capacity to their "just assemble what others hand us" abilities, by changing the looks of an older console a bit, and using those plastic parts, with very cheaply manufactured, very easy-to-assemble hardware parts of their own design. They took the next logical steps, as it were: from being an employee of other companies, to being an independent one. If this is substantially true, then Philips and/or Signetics may not have designed this console, at all. UAL may have had more to do with the creation of the system than we've previously believed? (Maybe.) This is just brainstorming-out-loud, mind you, but "what if" ... UAL had been doing contracted hardware assembly work for more than one company that was making game consoles, over time; and they somehow acquired the tooling (molds for the plastic housing parts) from one game system -- the by then ancient and dead APF M-1000 console -- and also looked hard at the hardware designs they were assembling, and they sort of combined the two ... and "invented" the Arcadia 2001? I'm open to other suggestions and brainstorming ... as always. :-) -- Ward Shrake -- #2160 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:52 pm Subject: More about the APF M-1000's ancestry to the Arcadia family I posted links to some of this in the LINKS section of the group's web site ... but for those of you who primarily read/lurk via e-mail: This web page will show what I mean, about the similarities in the plastic cases used for the APF M-1000 console, and the Arcadia 2001: http://www.nausicaa.net/~lgreenf/apfpage2.htm And on the home page to that site (as found here) ... http://www.nausicaa.net/~lgreenf/apfpage.htm ... I found this quote from an interview of a bigshot from APF: > Q: Did APF manufacture any of the products > themselves, or was it all OEM? > > A: The company did both. They owned a factory > in Hong Kong, and had product built for them > by others in Taipei (Taiwan) and Japan. That leads me to wonder if the Hong Kong factory in question above might have been an earlier version of UAL? ("Universal Appliances," apparently.) I say that because APF's machine was released several years earlier than the Arcadia machine: giving them time to have once been owned by APF; then, after APF's bankruptcy, maybe becoming their own "we can assemble hardware for you, cheaply" company; then, at an even later time, maybe they grew in capacity and went independent? Just brainstorming, here! Comments welcome! The person being interviewed above said a few things I tended to question, as to how far I could trust what they were saying on a 100% literal level. (Like there being a ten year gap where TV games simply didn't exist, until the NES.) But as far as a starting point goes, the idea that APF once owned or did business with a factory operating out of Hong Kong, certainly tends to make me wonder if it was UAL. -- Ward Shrake -- #2161 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:33 pm Subject: More brainstorming silliness Now that I have a head crammed full of older research data we all came up with together, years ago, along with some new info (about APF's sort of accidental half-involvement), I'm reconsidering old assumptions. I'm asking others to consider this recent brainstorming to see how full of poop I may be, on it; and/or to chime in with any ideas of their own. "What if" (as the old story begins): * APF made a really expandable, basically high-end game machine in the late 1970's, primarily using the best available components ... and ended up going bankrupt, perhaps in part due to the high cost of using such high quality PC boards and the like (they used fiberglass mother and cart boards, not the much cheaper phenolic resin boards used and perhaps even made later by UAL; and APF did a bunch of other things like big manuals which were cool for customers, but not so hot from an accounting standpoint ... since APF went bankrupt "soon".) * UAL was the "made in Hong Kong" company that is seen on the backs of so many of the products that APF designed and manufactured. * UAL had contracts with various companys, after they seperated from their now-bankrupt parent company, and become more independent. * That UAL felt they could enter the games market as easily as any of their potential competitors ... with a better mindset to help them along, since they'd watched APF crash and burn relatively quickly ... and they decided that if they did design and manufacture a games system of their own, that the key to success would be to use their cheap labor as leverage or a distinct market advantage; and to keep the parts needing to be purchased both easily sourced, and very cheap to buy ... * And what if UAL also decided that a complimentary key to success would be to write their own games, from scratch -- not necessarily anything too original, since that was likely risky -- with the gist of things being to avoid having a library full of edu-tainment or lame "games" ... or if not that, directly, (since they did it!) then to use such titles as sort of filler, with the larger idea being to make cheap knock-offs of arcade games, which would presumably sell the system to buyers ... most of which we knew, already, but I'm sort of mentally factoring in that the game people know best for the APF is their pretty decent clone of Space Invaders, which APF had named "Space Destroyers" in an apparent attempt to avoid infringing on anyone's trademark (name protection, only) ... with the rest of the library for the APF being seen by modern folks as largely lame. * And having gone that far, what if they looked at any of the older and more obscure (and therefore non-expensive) microprocessor chips then available; and prototyped up a motherboard that they could make as a single-sided board that would fit inside the bottom of the old APF machine's plastic housing (with a slightly modified upper half, to try to disguise the relation to a then-long-ago dead game console, which Protector had apparently dumped, during bankruptcy, for a fraction of its value, via mail order sales.) * And having gone that far with this mental exercise, wouldn't that put UAL into the driver's seat ... and not Philips or Signetics? * What if UAL approached Philips with some sort of a "costs us little or nothing" deal that went something remotely like this: you (Philips or Signetics) sell us (UAL) the three main chips we'd need to make our mother boards for this new system, at a very low cost per unit ... and in exchange for that, we'll make you a helluva good deal on the games we'll write, for use on that system? Maybe we'll just let you have the game code, and let you make other systems that will be compatible with this one ... if you'll let us assemble them for you? (The big problem with this idea being that we've previously felt that licensing code for games was something that took UAL largely by surprise; so it would seem inconsistent for them to look at their own code as being a "we own it, fully" deal. One way around that would be to assume they were making Philips such a good deal, overall, that it would be counter-productive for Philips not to take them up on it?) Figuring out the details of those meetings, using only now-available info, isn't overly likely. However, in time, with more puzzle pieces being collected from here or there ... years from now, we may know? -- Ward Shrake -- #2162 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:48 pm Subject: Re: More brainstorming silliness (I gotta get off this 'fuser soon ... but my mind is racing, now!) Part of the reason I like the latest brainstorming I'm doing is that it answers a nagging question I've had for years: why were things like the Palladium system made with such high quality parts ... but the game system that apparently was based on it, was made out of utter junk? (In terms of things like the comparative quality of the circuit boards.) If UAL once helped to assemble those uber-expensive-to-make systems, and they stayed in business while they watched the companies that created those machines go into bankruptcy ... well, that would answer why the "next generation" was low-quality in terms of the parts they used. It would have been a direct "avoid doing that; that was stupid" thing. -- Ward Shrake -- #2163 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 5:28 pm Subject: Side-by-side visual comparison of APF and Arcadia 2001 cart guts Over on this page: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/ Hardware_information/ ... I just now uploaded two new images: scans of two carts, side by side. One is from an APF machine; the other, from the Arcadia 2001. As you'll see, the cart edge's pin count and pin spacing is identical. The outline of both cart circuit boards is also identical. This adds confirmation to the recent discovery / idea that the makers of the Arcadia 2001 family of consoles did not start with a clean sheet of engineering paper: they took an existing set of mold tooling assets (once made for APF's console and game carts) and changed it slightly --upper half of the console only: the rest of the tooling seems to be unchanged, at this point -- and they then designed a really cheap-to-manufacture, single-sided motherboard that would fit inside the two halves of the slightly-altered plastic console. Weirdness ... but also cool, that we figured this out! -- Ward Shrake -- #2164 From: Date: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:53 pm Subject: Who were UAL? Ward Its great to see you back, posting and enlivening the state of Arcadia research. Several years ago I did quite a bit of research into who exactly UAL may have been and concluded that most probably they were/are a company that still exists in Hong Kong called: "Universal Appliances Limited" (listing name is actually UAL on the Hong Kong stock market) This was based on the clues that various ex-people involved had mentioned in regards to the name and I also made some enquiries with people involved on the ground in Hong Kong. (I have contact with the people who founded "Grandstand" UK who at the same time were attending the right trade shows in Hong Kong and ended up importing into the UK one of the first programmable game systems ie. the UK version of the "Channel F" the "Adman Grandstand") When I checked a few years ago I actually had someone in Hong Kong check the companies office and today via the web you can actually look at the records yourself here: http://www.info.gov.hk/cr (Hong Kong Companies Registry) According to the register the date of incorporation was: "07-APR-1972". Googling throws up lots more information about them. Thanks, Michael #2165 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Feb 26, 2008 5:15 am Subject: Confirmed! APF upper half mates perfectly with Tele-Fever lower half See the FILES section, under the TEMPORARY_FILES folder, if you want to see a photo of an APF MP-1000 machine's upper console half attached to the lower section of a Tele-Fever. This proves (at least to me) that we have three generations of one set of mold tools: the first was made for use with the APF system (1978); the second's a revised version of that, in a form we fans of obscure consoles know as the Arcadia 2001 or the Leisure-Vision or whatever; with a third set of mold tooling changes taking place when the Arcadia 2001's makers made the Tele-Fever game console in or around 1983. If nothing else, it's a graphic reminder of how rapidly the home gaming market evolved, between 1978 and 1983. -- Ward Shrake -- #2166 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Tue Feb 26, 2008 3:43 pm Subject: Re: Elektor TVGC interview With regard to the APF connection, this is interesting...I'm curious about how the Interton family fit into this picture...some of the same companies were involved, but not UA Ltd. as far as I know. Anyway...here is the interview... 1) I presume that you built the TV Games Computer. Right? If not, where did you acquire it? You are right, I built TVGC up from scratch. I was eager to learn how a computer functioned deep inside. In those days I worked as an system analyst with an american copmputer company. Beside this I wrote programs in Cobol and Assembler. 2) What made you choose THAT computer? Price? The thrill of building a computer from scratch? Someone else that you knew that had one? The pages 4-28 to 4-33 and 4-44 to 4-52 of the German Magazin "Elektor" Volume 100 April 1979 inspired me to build that computer as soon as possible. As I could afford it, I started it at once, doing everything by myself. 3) Were you aware that later consoles used the 2650 CPU? Did you ever use an Interton VC 4000 or Arcadia-family console? I heard about later computers using the 2650 CP, but about Interton VC 4000 or Arcadia-family I read for the first time in your documentation. 4) Did you go into programming at all on other computers? What was your next computer AFTER the TVGC? Yes, but before I wrote for 2650 I used to progam big commercial computers (NCR, IBM and others). The next after the TVGC was a Commodore C64 (Basic, Assambler). 5) What made you choose to write "Lotto?" Uh, were you able to win with it and retire ;-) ? Well, "Lotto" was for fun, you could use it in daily life. It was a little bit difficult, because the chosen number(s) had to be ignored in the next round(s) and the memory space was really small (< 2 kb!). I never heard of people winning money by using "Lotto" - but who knows... I myself did not win a penny ... 6) Did you rub shoulders with other TVGC users are the time? Was there a user group or anything like that? From time to time (snail mail!) I had correspondence with another author of TVGC programs (Paul-Jürgen Dickers). It was planned by Dicker to start a user group but in the end it was not realiesed. 7) When did you first get the TVGC? When did you stop using it? In April of 1979 I started to build the computer and I used it until1982. 8) Do you know about or have any 3rd-party TVGC software, eg. the Hocosoft programs released in 1981? I own Hocosoft No. ESS-007, No. ESS-009, No. ESS-010, No. 16, No. 0021 (Teaser & Queen), No. 0022 (Solitaire), No. 0027 (Reversi), No. 0028 (Tuerme von Hanoi), No. 0030 (Basar) and No. 0033 (Othello) and many other programs on tapes, but I do not know wether the tapes are still readable or not. I started the old 2650 TVGC after about 26 years and it worked for half an hour, but when I tried to read a tape, the computer did not work anymore. I guess that the eprom lost a part of its memory. So if it is possible to get e new eprom the TVGC will work again. 9) Did you expand the TVGC or just use the basic version? I expanded the TVGC in October 1980. In Elektor Volume September 1981 page 9-48 and 9-54 there is a documentation of the extension + 3 k memory and sound effects. Furthermore I added two eproms with a chess programm inside. This chess program is still respondig and therefore I know that cpu and pvi are working correctly after all the years of not being used. 10) Did you write any other TVGC programs? Yes, I wrote some other programs just for my own fun, but I did not make them public. When I sent the program Disassembler (my best progam I guess) to Elektor, Mr. P. V. Holmes cut out some subroutines und added his name as co-other without any asking.. Mr. P. V. Holmes's really strange behaviour ended my contact to the german Elektor. 11) What is your favourite TVGC game :-) ? My favourite is Mauerball (kind of breakout), but my favourite of all programs is the Disassemblar in the unabridged version. 12) What kind of documentation did you use for programming the TVGC? Elektor, Signetics 2650 documentation, Microcomputer by Dr. J. Hatzenbichler and TV-Computerspiele by H. Bernstein. He also sent me the following photos, I will upload them to the site within the next week or two: pictures (4) of the 2650 TVGC picture of 2650 screen (after rest of 26 years) picture of 2650 screen (chess program) picture of the signetics manual picture of the books (programming) picture of the 1. page of Elektor Volume 100 picture of the 1. page of Lotto program Regards James #2167 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Feb 28, 2008 5:17 pm Subject: The relationship between APF and the Arcadia --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , wrote: > > Ward > > Its great to see you back, posting and > enlivening the state of Arcadia research. Thanks, man! It can be fun ... I just gotta watch that I don't over-do things (also helping with Bally and APF stuff), and burn out again. One other bit of news, in relation to the relationship between the APF's plastic mold tooling, and the Arcadia 2001 carts / console: it made no sense to me before, so I had ignored it, but inside the early (sliding door) version of the long style of Arcadia carts, there are the letters "MPA10" stamped inside, on both halves of the cart case. I saw that exact series of letters used, in the old FAQ for the APF -- it apparently was a name for the Imagination Machine (or some APF thing). Anyone have a current e-mail address for Sly DC? I'd like to ask him for permission to sort of take over or at least update his older FAQ, about the APF MP-1000 game console. My interest is mostly in updating the hardware sections ... I already have a few corrections and/or improvements to the pinout diagrams, now that I'm poking around in the innards of that system ... but if you're gonna do the one, then why not do the other. (Which is sorta what got me in trouble, before. Ha!) -- Ward Shrake -- #2168 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Mar 5, 2008 12:25 pm Subject: Ward's getting back into ROM archiving Just a quick note to say that I'm working on designing and soldering up a new archiving device, that will theoretically accept either Arcadia or APF cartridges, and let me read the digitial information inside of them. For now, to get back into practice, I'm going to take the dozen or so random / common Arcadia carts I have laying around and re-dump each of them. I'll get some practice that way; plus be able to fully test the new device I'll be using for archiving Arcadia ROMs; and as a side benefit, will be able to see if there are any subtle differences in those ROMs, as compared to previous dumps of the common carts. I'm not counting on the latter happening. It's mostly just "for practice". -- Ward Shrake -- #2169 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Mar 5, 2008 11:03 pm Subject: Re: Elektor TVGC interview --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "James Jacobs" wrote: > > Re. multicarts, I forgot to mention that there > are some "enhanced" games (eg. Alien Invaders > with different backgrounds and no startup wait, > Space Squadron with in-game messages, Video > Chess without the annoying scrolling, etc., > Golf fixed so that it will run on the multicart) > in the Enhancements Pack at the site, Ward is of > course welcome to put any of these on the next > multicart if desired. Just a follow-up to say I'll be playing with those, soon. I'll be burning several of them into small / single EPROM chips and plugging the chips into modified single-cart boards ... as soon as I get a bit more organizee, and caught up. Doing lots of soldering and mods for two consoles now. (The Arcadia and my new-old toy, the APF MP-1000). James -- want single cart (bare board; no case) versions of anything in particular? I have a bunch of boards I'll be stripping chips off of, after dumping them as practice (and to see if we find any legit variants of stuff we have). I'd ship you several single carts with sockets, which would be set up for EPROM use, if you'd try to put them to use on a "real console". (Just trying to encourage that!) That offer's open to others, if they'd put them to good use. (Not so much gameplay as homebrewing, is the hope. But I'm relatively open.) I'm betting Adam's open for that, so I'll throw a few in with other stuff I'm saving up, to go his way at some point. Anyone else ...? -- Ward Shrake -- #2170 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Thu Mar 6, 2008 7:23 am Subject: Re: Elektor TVGC interview >> I'm betting Adam's open for that, so I'll throw a few in with other stuff I'm saving up, to go his way at some point. >> GRIN. Thanks Ward. I don't think that I'll be doing anymore homebrew "stuff" on this system, but I'd like to burn a ROM here or there. Thanks! Adam #2171 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Fri Mar 7, 2008 4:36 pm Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? Sorry I missed your now-month-old questions, Charlie. Just found them on a search of old messages, on the group's web site. > By the way, does anyone know if: > a. The supercharger will physically fit > into the 2001 cart slot? > b. The supercharger will electrically > match the 2001 cart pinouts? Short answers: likely "half-no" (plastic case should; PC board likely will not," and "I'd rule that possibility out". Some of that was answered originally, when I first posted about the idea. I think my thought then was to physically hack two carts up, and to have a Frankenstein'd device with an Emerson cart board as the part that sticks into the Emerson machine; jumpered to a Supercharger's PC board. > If either one of the above is a NO, won't > that mean a cable/adapter? If so, how will > the "electronically challenged" handle that? The Electrically Challenged would have to rely on others ... but that's "Perfectly Normal (tm)". > It would still mean soldering and etc. Or > maybe would the cable be cheap enough that > someone would not mind assembling and > donating some? Even if cost / hassle wasn't a factor (and it almost always is) then the next question becomes: would anyone (besides Charlie) put such a development system to any active use? I'm mostly doubting that. > In short, has anyone followed up on this, > and/or thought it through more fully? The idea mostly died. No one but you and Adam said anything public about it, and he's sort of retired from homebrew coding for this console; and you are already set up with a system that works for you. Even my efforts to ask others if they wanted to chip in a few $$$ to get James, the main emulator coder for the Arcadia console group, a "real" system for comparison purposes was met with total silence. Guess no one cares. Oh well. Can't help that! Adam had an excellent point that I didn't think of, early on -- hence my desire to get input from others, in the first place -- and it was this: the thing is set up to get instructions from the Atari VCS, in sort of a boot-up mode. (Duh, Ward!) Not sure how one would get past that, other than removing the existing "BIOS" from the Supercharger and replacing it with something that would work on the Arcadia. That alone may make the project impossible; or more work than desirable. My original attraction to the idea was to adapt something pre-made, rather than to take something all the way from a paper design stage; through prototyping; through debugging; and then to manufacturing. I was trying to cut down or out as many of those steps, as possible. As for myself, the EmerCharger project is WAY back on the far rear burner, somewhere. It's something that may or may not still interest me, months and months from now, after I've finished up some unrelated APF archiving work. Even if I do hack something up -- and the key word there was "if" -- I'm not going to try to sell them. They'd be more of a donation or "just pay back my expenses" sort of thing, I imagine: made one at a time and passed on to those who'd really put an EmerCharger to good use, by coding up new homebrew Arcadia stuff. I've found from the experience of having spent 900+ hours making 77 Emerson and Bally multi-carts that it just wasn't worth it to me, on a relatively large manufacturing basis, with cash being traded. I'd much rather keep the numbers of any future self-made hardware items in the "handful of them, only" range; with trades of a non-cash, non- cart, non-merchandise nature being how I distributed any such items. -- Ward Shrake -- #2172 From: "charliee1151" Date: Mon Mar 10, 2008 11:33 am Subject: Re: Development system idea -- what about adapting a Starpath Supercharger? "Guess no one cares." Well, not exactly. I was just somewhat put off by the impression (false?) that he is out of the country, and I wondered about the shipping charges and robustness of the appropriate box taking such a journey. Is he, in fact, somewhere on the other side of the world? If he's in the US, no problem; I think I have a third working 2001 around, someplace....maybe, perhaps....it's been a long time. Charlie #2173 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:39 pm Subject: Re: Re: Elektor TVGC interview >I was just somewhat put off by the impression (false?) that he is out of the country, and I wondered about the shipping charges and robustness of the appropriate box taking such a journey. Is he, in fact, somewhere on the other side of the world? Yes, Australia :-( I'd be very interested in some kind of programmable EPROM/RAM homebrew cart or multicart, either Arcadia-style or MPT-03-style. No need to send me a machine, I should be able to source a working machine locally from eBay or similar, and I should have the funds to cover this soon... Regards James #2174 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:18 pm Subject: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators [Charlie said:] >> >> I was just somewhat put off by the impression >> (false?) that he is out of the country, and I >> wondered about the shipping charges and >> robustness of the appropriate box taking such >> a journey. Is he, in fact, somewhere on the >> other side of the world? You're already doing borderline-too-much, Charlie. :-) You're one of the only people in the whole world, actively doing 2001 stuff at this point. I'm trying to stir things up, a bit or a dab, in others: on a "It won't happen at all, until someone does things" basis. It's my opinion that a lot of people in this retro-gaming hobby want to participate in what I see as a mostly-passive way. Their wallet speaks up, from time to time; but they themselves rarely do. Lurkers and buyers, and people saying "we want this or that product". I'm speaking here of the whole hobby; not the people on this one group. The only way new games are going to be written is that folks who only participate with their wallets, do something to support those who do stuff with an EPROM programmer, or a soldering iron, or a keyboard. If it comes down to a strictly "check back with me when you're done, and *maybe* I'll (grudgingly) toss a few bucks your way, for a game on a cart -- but the label and the box and all of that has to rock, or I'm not buying it" ... then smart coders will read books, instead. I was sort of hoping that if my theory was right (about wallets speaking), then a few wallets would get together, and tell James "We appreciate your emulation efforts. Here's a real console to play with. Please keep up the good work." It was mildly disappointing to me, but not fully unexpected, to hear silence. Especially since I know the principle works: Stefan helped PeT to get a real Palladium to play with, once upon a time; and the emulators of the time improved. Sly DC sold me a Leisure-Vision for practically nothing; and I ended up dumping over half the library; and making a multi-cart for the Arcadia. Stuff like that can and does happen ... but only if people sacrifice something, to "prime the pump"; or nothing happens! Not trying to bad-mouth anyone ... just voicing an opinion. At the end of the day this is just a hobby, after all: not "World Peace". [James said:] > Yes, Australia :-( > > I'd be very interested in some kind of > programmable EPROM/RAM homebrew cart or > multicart, either Arcadia- style or > MPT-03-style. I'll be happy to "sacrifice" some of my time and skills, to put some EPROM carts with sockets into your hands, James. Arcadia-style for sure; possibly also an MPT-03 system style cart, as well. (Another example: Adam Trionfo recently put an NTSC-style MPT-03 into my hands, on a "till summertime" loan. He gave me nearly carte blanche, to Frankenstein it into something cool. I picked up one MPT-03 cart, in addition to his stuff: which I don't have to return to him.) I'll see what I can do, EPROM-wise, over the next month or so. Send me an e-mail or a private message with your snail mail address, please. > No need to send me a machine, I should be able > to source a working machine locally from eBay > or similar, and I should have the funds to > cover this soon... Coolness ... especially since you're probably in PAL TV-territory? One thought, though: Charlie, would you be willing to mail me one of your spare Arcadia-compatible systems? (If you really have a spare, that is.) Maybe James could find himself and MPT-03 system, locally; and I could take the one you'd send to me; modify it for composite video output (now that I know how to do that); and mail it to James? (I'm presuming that just replacing the NTSC signal generator with one that does PAL, would work okay. Good way to test the theory, anyway. Also, James would then have one of each, and could watch for any differences there might be (flag variable?) across the two consoles. Would any of you other folks be willing to toss a few bucks towards Charles to accomodate his giving up a spare console, and mailing it? I don't think it's fair that too few of us do everything, ourselves. -- Ward Shrake -- #2175 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:01 am Subject: Re: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators My spare console is certainly available, IF it exists and IF it is working. I know I had at least two of them, and I am pretty sure it was three. But I would be digging through probably 20 or more large storage boxes, currently in a public storage facility, searching for what may actually be a "faulty memory" item. It will take some time, I'm sure. And then, of course, I have to test it, and if it doesn't work, go back and search again for one of the other ones. I'll put this on my "to-do" list...but no promises. Charlie #2176 From: "charliee1151" Date: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:23 am Subject: Re: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators "I'm presuming that just replacing the NTSC signal generator with one that does PAL, would work okay" Ummm, maybe not. The crystal that controls the modulator is part of the 2001 PCB, not contained within the modulator; you will probably have to change that from 3.57 to 4.43. "modify it for composite video output (now that I know how to do that)" I'm assuming you know that you will have to change the high-impedance output of the video circuitry (that drives the modulator), into a low impedance output (75 ohms) that will drive the typical input of a video monitor. Further, that to drive such a low impedance from the existing video circuitry directly will probably give really poor results; you may need an amplifier circuit. Just an FYI... Charlie #2178 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:02 am Subject: RE: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators >> Would any of you other folks be willing to toss a few bucks towards Charles to accomodate his giving up a spare console, and mailing it? >> I'm in, for say, thrity bucks? Just tell me where to Pay Pal the cash! Adam #2179 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:05 am Subject: RE: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators Another example of giving (or selling cheaply) people a console is in the Astrocade world. I gave Bob Colbert a working Astrocade and he programmed AstroWAV and Ballybin. These two programs are used to digitally archive the (typically) BASIC tapes. Without this program this Astrocade library would be about five-hundred programs smaller! Adam #2180 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:21 am Subject: Re: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators >> How does one edit posts; I don't see any Edit button? >> I've wondered this myself. I don't think that it is possible, but I'd love to be proved wrong. Charlie #2181 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Wed Mar 12, 2008 9:35 pm Subject: Re: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators I'll keep those two items in mind, Charlie. So far, though, maybe I've been lucky with my composite video mod? My spare Commodore video monitor seems to like things just fine, without any amplification. I am running my console on a really hefty (12v @ 1 amp, if I recall correctly) wall wart / power supply, however; not a tiny wall wart. I wouldn't normally think that would make much difference; except that when I used a tiny wall wart (300 milliamps?) with an APF MP-1000 game console, I got only black-and-white video output. Just plugging in the larger power supply, instead, gave me color on that system. Like I said: I'll keep it in mind; especially the different crystal. I do appreciate your (continued!) input. -- Ward Shrake -- #2182 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Mar 13, 2008 2:34 am Subject: Re: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators Charles and James and Adam: See how you guys like this revised plan. (Looking back on it, I may have been going a dab overboard, or being too grandiose, the last time: in thinking about two complete systems, rather than one.) Adam's willing to kick in some (generous!) bucks. I'm willing to kick in maybe $20-ish myself, come payday ... so that would be $50 USD. Since James has a need for a PAL system, maybe we'd be better off just sending James the money, directly; and he could, as he said, pick one up "locally"? He could always buy one with our bucks; and pick up another later, with whatever bucks he was setting aside? EPROM cart-wise, it would be better all around if the one James gets is compatible with the Arcadia system: I have an ample supply of the boards for that system, and can spare several "for the cause". But in terms of MPT-03 carts, I only own one, period, so I can't throw more than one at him. As luck has it, though, it's already set up for a 4k EPROM; and actually had one soldered in. So all I'd have to do on the MPT-03 one is solder in a socket (I already desoldered the chip); and James could use 2732 EPROMs to have any program 4k or less in size. As far as the Arcadia boards I'd be able to send, I'd probably toss a mix of socketed EPROM chips at him, for burn-test-erase-repeat work; and maybe, if he's so inclined, some larger "permanent" programs. Does that sound better than the previous plan? It does to me, now. -- Ward Shrake -- #2183 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Thu Mar 13, 2008 6:41 am Subject: Re: Re: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators >EPROM cart-wise, it would be better all around if the one James gets >is compatible with the Arcadia system: I have an ample supply of the >boards for that system, and can spare several "for the cause". But in >terms of MPT-03 carts, I only own one, period, so I can't throw more >than one at him. As luck has it, though, it's already set up for a 4k >EPROM; and actually had one soldered in. So all I'd have to do on the >MPT-03 one is solder in a socket (I already desoldered the chip); and >James could use 2732 EPROMs to have any program 4k or less in size. I have eg. 2 copies of Nibblemen for MPT-03, so I could send you one for cannibalization if required. Both MPT-03s and Arcadias were sold in Australia (by Tempest and Emerson respectively?) so either of those machines should be reasonably easy to source. Regards James Jacobs Canberra, Australia "A program that spreads over nearly 5K must be either highly sophisticated - or rather clumsy!" - Paul Holmes. #2184 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:03 pm Subject: Re: Getting real systems for the guys that write emulators --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com wrote: > > > I have eg. 2 copies of Nibblemen for MPT-03, > so I could send you one for cannibalization > if required. Both MPT-03s and Arcadias were > sold in Australia (by Tempest and Emerson > respectively?) so either of those machines > should be reasonably easy to source. Hold onto those for now, James. The one MPT-03 cart I'll be sending your way (I will need your snail mail address: e-mail me with that, when you get a chance), should suffice in the short term; no? The only reason I'd need either of those MPT-03 Nibblemen carts is if you wanted more than one of the EPROM-compatible MPT-03 carts; or to archive the originals, to see if they're any different than the ROM images we already have. (Which, if memory serves, were Ormatu's?) I'm sort of on a re-dumping kick, with the carts I have now: doing that as a way to make sure all the data is the same as the older dumps; but mostly, as a way for me to get back into practice. So far, none of the few common Arcadia carts I have, were any different. But it's good practice to know the new dumps are all matching up, exactly. Maybe you'd get a few random carts with the MPT-03 system, if you got one of those? Or could pick up a few common MPT carts, on the side? If so, it'd save us both on postage if you sent me a batch of those carts to "convert over," all at once. For now, the plan is for me to solder up a few Arcadia carts; and mail that out, with one MPT-03 cart. These would mostly be just boards without cases, by the way. (The reason I have so many Arcadia boards is buying common carts and re-using the plastic cases, for use with my 34 Arcadia multi-carts.) > "A program that spreads over nearly 5K must > be either highly sophisticated - or rather > clumsy!" - Paul Holmes. Now THAT cracks me up! I just LOVE that quote! #2209 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:11 am Subject: Web links Two things: is anyone else having trouble accessing the Tele-Fever site? http://www.telefever.de/ Also -- I just uploaded the most-recent link to the "Obscure Pixels" web site, by Michael Davidson of New Zealand. But for you e-mail only folks, here it is: http://www.retrogames.co.nz/ What I found there over the weekend, was a page about an arcade game named "Malzak," which used the 2650 processor, along with a 2636. He even has pics of the cabinet, and one of the board. (Direct link to that page): http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~pinwhiz/kitronix.htm Does anyone but our buddy from New Zealand know anything about it? To me, it looks a lot like someone with Arcadia experience (or similar?) put together a home-drawn and home-etched board ... which is how some of the carts from over there appeared to me, too. I guess I'm saying that if I found out some folks from, say, Orbit were involved in the arcade game effort: well, it wouldn't surprise me. Over time, with hand-made boards, you can see a "family resemblance" in such things. (Now, I'm not saying that; just saying I'd love to find out more.) #2210 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:41 am Subject: Re: Web links Some more info about the Malzak game can be found via Google; and as it turns out, Michael's been busy; and has found some helpers, too: http://nztronix.org.nz/malzak.php http://www.arcade-history.com/?n=malzak&page=detail&id=1553 http://groups.google.co.nz/group/rec.games.video.arcade.collecting/msg/d 7b811dc702c9393 Weird. And interesting! #2211 From: "manni211" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 11:57 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "ward_shrake" wrote: > > 208 + 32 + 8 + 4 = 252 bytes ... with 4 left over, somewhere? > The four Bytes are not somewhere they are from $18FC-$18FF and resides in the RAMchip. Hello Ward, I'm listening very interessed on your 'problem' to get the second half of the 1K Ram activated. So may be I can give you some hints to resolve it. If you already know all that, then just look at this as an additional documentation. In the Datasheet of the 2637 UVI states that the UVI has control over 512 Bytes Address space( to my opinion it should read as 512 Bytes RAM, because the UVI chip has 9 Address line A0-A8) which are build up as follows: 256 Bytes which are activated by the RCE (Pin 27 of UVI) which is connected to the CE-Pin of the RAM. 128 Bytes which are activated by the CE (Pin 26 of UVI)which is connected to the 'Keyboard'. 128 Bytes which are inside of the UVI. The UVI itself has also a CS Pin, which is wired to A12. Which means that the above 512 Bytes are mirrored 8 times in the CPU address space from $1000-$1FFF(which is ,I believe, a waste of space). The UVI also have 9 Adresslines (A0-A8), but to adress 256 Bytes you actually need only 8 Adresslines. In the service manual of the Emerson you can see that the address line A8 is not direct connected to the Ram Chips. It is going to a couple of Nand-Gates to finally `build' the A8 . That's because on the one side the UVI needs to read from the Ram and on the other side the CPU needs to access the RAM. The CPU is the main reason why there is a `whole' between the 2 256 bytes of Ram, because the `keyboard' and the UVI internals also have to be addressed by the CPU. For the UVI it looks like continues 512 Byte. So far so good. Now on the Tele Fever board the A9 of the RAM is connected to A11(still need's to be confirmed) of the CPU. If this is true and the CS Pin of the UVI is also only connected to the A12 Pin of the CPU the mapping of Address space $1000 to $1FFF would look like this: $1000-$10FF 1 quarter of RAM accessible only by the CPU $1100-$11FF Keyboard and UVI internal $1200-$12FF 2 quarter of RAM accessible only by the CPU $1300-$13FF Keyboard and UVI internal $1400-$14FF 1 quarter of RAM accessible only by the CPU $1500-$15FF Keyboard and UVI internal $1600-$16FF 2 quarter of RAM accessible only by the CPU $1700-$17FF Keyboard and UVI internal $1800-$18FF 3 quarter of RAM accessible by the CPU and UVI $1900-$19FF Keyboard and UVI internal $1A00-$1AFF 4 quarter of RAM accessible by the CPU and UVI $1B00-$1BFF Keyboard and UVI internal $1C00-$1CFF 3 quarter of RAM accessible by the CPU and UVI $1D00-$1DFF Keyboard and UVI internal $1E00-$1EFF 4 quarter of RAM accessible by the CPU and UVI $1F00-$1FFF Keyboard and UVI internal That means you have the extra 512 Bytes from $1000-$10FF and $1200-$12FF, but only on the Tele Fever machine. Do you agree? Manfred #2212 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Mon Apr 14, 2008 7:55 pm Subject: Re: Web links >Two things: is anyone else having trouble accessing the Tele-Fever site? http://www.telefever.de/ Yes, it is down. I have a local copy though if anyone is interested. >What I found there over the weekend, was a page about an arcade game named "Malzak," which used the 2650 processor, along with a 2636. He even has pics of the cabinet, and one of the board. Those screenshots don't look like they have been generated by a 2636. #2213 From: "lucifershalo" Date: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:45 am Subject: look for games,roms and more for Arcadia 2001 and Interton VC4000 I collect "pre-crash" consoles atari 2600 atari 5200 atari 7800 colecovision intellivision vectrex creativision bally astrocade and INTERTON VC4000 ARCADIA 2001 looking to complete my collection of games for those consoles and have atari,intv,vectrex and vc4000 games for trade,for sale etc I am in belgium ps I also look for good websites to download vc4000 and arcadia 2001 games roms #2214 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:36 am Subject: Re: Web links "James Jacobs" wrote: > > Those screenshots don't look like they > have been generated by a 2636. Somewhere in the text it explains they're from the MAME emulator; and elsewhere, his text says that MAME emulation hasn't been perfected yet. Oh, and that many of the board sets are no longer working: why is why they didn't have "true" screengrabs to display, from the real hardware. #2215 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:51 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "manni211" wrote: > > That means you have the extra 512 Bytes > from $1000-$10FF and $1200-$12FF, but > only on the Tele Fever machine. > Do you agree? Manfred: I'm not 100% sure yet, on agreeing ... but it looks like you've done your homework. (And I'm glad you're chiming in!) I'll have to come back to that question, and those thoughts, after clearing some godo time for exploring it more. I'm just busy with way too many other things, at the moment. Meanwhile, check this out, if you would: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_ information/ I just uploaded what I called a proportional memory map, there. It is preliminary only. It was something I typed up, recently. It's based on the memory map, as shown in James Jacobs' "a-coding.txt" document (on his web site; see the links section on this group's web site; or recent messages). Before today, only Adam T. and James saw it: I had bounced it off of them, in private e-mail, to get their comments. James thinks, and I tend to agree, that there were three generations of this hardware: the Palladium console seems to have been one of the first machines related closely to the Arcadia; then the Arcadia (as it was released in the U.S. and elsewhere); and then the Tele-Fever. At this point, the main or defining difference seems to be RAM size or configuration: the Palladium having 512 bytes spread across four chips; the Arcadia having 512 bytes spread across two chips; and the Tele-Fever having those same two chips, but wired up as 1024 bytes. I'm interested in those "Malzak" boards, as a possible fourth version of hardware based on the 2650 (CPU) and 2636 chip combination. #2216 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:58 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "manni211" wrote: > > The UVI itself has also a CS Pin, > which is wired to A12. Which means > that the above 512 Bytes are mirrored > 8 times in the CPU address space from > $1000-$1FFF Interesting. (I just did a double-take on that CS / A12 info.) That may help to explain something else I've always thought was odd. Check with the group's web site, under (I think) "Files" >> "hardware information" ... I think I uploaded my older (v2.7x) FAQ there. That has lots of pinout information and the like. I was just re-reading it this weekend, and the A12 line isn't hooked up as you'd think it ought to be, as far as the cart slot goes. Maybe that (above) explains why? I'll have to think about it some more, before I have more to say. > (which is ,I believe, > a waste of space). Yeah; there's a lot of that going on, in this system design! :-) #2218 From: "manni211" Date: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:04 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "ward_shrake" wrote: > > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com , "manni211" > wrote: > > > > The UVI itself has also a CS Pin, > > which is wired to A12. Which means > > that the above 512 Bytes are mirrored > > 8 times in the CPU address space from > > $1000-$1FFF > > > Interesting. (I just did a double-take on that CS / A12 info.) That may > help to explain something else I've always thought was odd. I have taken that information (CS is wired to A12) from the service manual of the Arcadia machine, because I don't have an real machine here. This service manual is in the files/Hardware_information section named ermerson_service_manual.pdf. On Page 5 you can see that a wire(orange) is going from Pin 23 of the UVI to the Cartridge slot. Manfred #2219 From: "manni211" Date: Tue Apr 15, 2008 1:16 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "ward_shrake" wrote: > > At this point, the main or defining difference seems to be RAM size > or configuration: the Palladium having 512 bytes spread across four > chips; the Arcadia having 512 bytes spread across two chips; and the > Tele-Fever having those same two chips, but wired up as 1024 bytes. > What Palladium machine do you have? I have one here in front of me and this one only have 2 RAM chips Type 2114. It look's like their are also different Version of Palladium's out. > I'm interested in those "Malzak" boards, as a possible fourth version > of hardware based on the 2650 (CPU) and 2636 chip combination. > me to!!! If you could get hold of such a board that would be fantastic and I'm very interessed if someone can draw a schematics of it(it could also be me :-)). Manfred #2220 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:45 am Subject: Jump Bug differences I have been comparing the two available dumps of Jump Bug. These are the differences I found: ; * Version "A" has an extra credits line: "TECHNOLOGY INC.". ; * Version "A" always responds to the "B" button by starting a game. ; Version "B" responds to it by restarting in the same mode. ; * Version "A" has a "starting level" feature (controlled by the left ; player's "0" key). You start the game, then skip to a later level ; if desired, then play. In summary, it looks like version "A" (Emerson version) is probably a later, enhanced version of "B" (Tele-Fever version). There are no apparent differences relating to the different hardware of the two machines, nor did there seem to be any NTSC/PAL changes. The code is quite similar, mostly though version "A" and "B" are offset from one another by 79 bytes. Therefore it has probably been reassembled from source code rather than patched "in situ". As the Jump Bug manual is unavailable, I don't know whether the level selection feature is documented or not. If not, it would be the first cheat mode discovered for any of these games. I haven't done much investigation of 3D Soccer yet but they are VERY similar (only 25 bytes difference). #2221 From: "lucifershalo" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:05 am Subject: Re: look for games,roms and more for Arcadia 2001 and Interton VC4000 "James Jacobs" wrote: > > >ps I also look for good websites to download > >vc4000 and arcadia 2001 games roms > > http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/ > thanks but also look to complete my carts collection for Arcadia 2001 I miss AUTO RACE CIRCUS CRAZY CLIMBER DORAEMON FUNKY FISH JUNGLER MOBILE SOLDIER GUNDAM MONACO GRAND PRIX PARASHOOTER / PARACHUTE PLEIADES R2D TANK SPACE MISSION SUPER BUG SUPER DIMENSION FORTRESS MACROSS and some vc4000 games too also some consoles variations #2222 From: "Jens Brinkmann" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:41 am Subject: Re: Jump Bug differences There is no Emerson version of Jump Bug. I had a quick look at the instructions I have: The level selection feature is documented in the Tele-Fever, the Hanimex and the Cosmos instructions. It's not documented in the Schmid TVG 2000 instructions. Jens #2223 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 6:53 am Subject: Re: Re: look for games,roms and more for Arcadia 2001 and Interton VC4000 >I miss SUPER BUG Don't we all >;-(( On an unrelated note, I just finished comparing the two versions of 3D Soccer...again, no hardware differences, seems to be just different orientation of the controls and button handling. #2224 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:08 am Subject: Re: Re: Jump Bug differences >I had a quick look at the instructions I have: The level selection feature is documented in the Tele-Fever, the Hanimex and the Cosmos instructions. It's not documented in the Schmid TVG 2000 instructions. Thanks Jens. >There is no Emerson version of Jump Bug. Sorry, I was being a little loose with my terminology. The dump in question was made by Ward Shrake in 1999 from a "Emerson family" cart loaned to him by Joe Santulli. Ward, do you remember the exact machine the cartridge was intended for? #2225 From: "Jens Brinkmann" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 7:49 am Subject: Re: Arcadia RAM this is strange??? "ward_shrake" wrote: > If my memory serves, other than a few labeling clues, our only real > major clues to what system (group of) "came first," in the past, were > the high value of the raw parts for the Palladium; and the very low > value of them on later consoles: with the Ormatu practically setting > a "low parts value, even for a poor neighborhood" records. > > If things turn out so that Super Bug is a cart made for the Ormatu or > the MPT-03, but not for other systems, then that tends to narrow the > range down in the way we had expected: Ormatu being one of the last > of the console families to be made; with Arcadia and MPT-03 stuck in > the middle of the age groups, somewhere; and the Palladium "first". Using a different way, I'm coming to nearly the same conclusions. I'm collecting articles about the Arcadia system for a couple of years and we can find some information's about what group of systems "came first" in them. The oldest reference I've found so far is for the Palladium console. Palladium products were distributed by Neckermann, which is a German catalogue company. They also had shops in the 80s, but the main thing was this telefon-book-sized catalogue which came out twice a year. The Palladium system first appeared in the Fall/Winter 1980/81 edition of the Neckermann catalogue. (With "Video- Fußball" and "Weltraumabenteuer" being the first two games available.) The last appearance of the Palladium console was the Spring/Summer catalogue 1984. The youngest contemporary reference I've found is from the Italian magazine Videogiochi. In issue 29 (September 1985) they've tested "The End" for the GIG Leonardo system. In all the magazines there are no references for the Ormatu-family, but there are a lot of references for the mpt-03-family. Out of my memory at least Prestige (in the French videogame magazine Tilt November 1982), Soundic (in the Finnish magazine Tekniikan Maailma 1983) and Poppy (in the German magazine Test 1984) were mentioned. Most articles are about the Emerson-family. With Hanimex (CVG, June 1982) being the first one and as mentioned above GIG Leonardo being the last one. We can say, that Arcadia consoles have been a topic in the media and in catalogues from 1980-85. If we don't look at regional differences we can also be more specific for some families: Palladium: 1980-84 Emerson: 1982-85 Mpt-03: 1982-84 One of my plans is to fully document the magazines, but I'm afraid that this will need some time. > Oh, and the (unrelated) APF MP-1000's history might shed some light, > too: that was another one of the "all the raw parts cost relatively > big bucks" computing machines -- gold plating on the electrical > traces or lines on cart boards, for example; and other signs -- but > maybe UAL and/or Philips felt they learned a valuable lesson in the > risk department, by watching the APF machine (and Palladium?) "die, > in the market" -- or come too close to it, due to profit margins? I'll write a message on that topic later on. Jens #2226 From: "Jens Brinkmann" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 8:14 am Subject: Re: News -- the "APF MP-1000" machine may be an ancestor "ward_shrake" wrote: > > Confirmed! Bill L. over on the APF message boards checked his APF and > Arcadia 2001 / Leisure-Vision cart cases against one another, and he > says the two are exactly alike, in most respects. (He didn't know > Arcadia had both styles of "doors" on the carts: sliding and open.) > > He also confirmed that the bottom half of the plastic case for the APF > machine matches the bottom half of the Arcadia console; and the top is > the only part that differs by any significant amount. > > So ... now we know another piece of a very confusing puzzle! (And as > always, it's expanding what else we need to find out, to see it all.) [Ward, you've written a lot of emails about this, sorry for not answering them one by one. I'm just writing down some of my thoughts:] I think the similarities in terms of the plastic cases used for carts and the consoles itself discovered by Ward are very interesting. One of my collection goals is to collect at least one cartridge for every system released, but so far I don't have an APF cart. Anyway these similarities seem to be quite common for the "cheap" systems at that time. Especially for those systems which can be divided into families (Arcadia, Interton, Cartridge-Pong) or those which were released in the US first and saw a ("cheap") re-release in other countries later on (RCA, partly Channel-F) and of cause for dedicated Pong systems build around the GI-chips (but that's another story). We can find the cartridge cases used for the Ormatu-family carts for the following systems: Arcadia: Ormatu, Sheen 2001 & M1800, Intervision Interton: ITMC mpt-05 Cartridge Pong: Poppy 9015, Mustang 9015, Sanwa 9015, Unimex Mark IX, Conic 4A8, Sheen 4A8, Nicole 4A8 All the cartridge cases have the same shape. The Arcadia & Interton carts have paper labels, while most of the Cartridge-Pong carts have "metal plates" on the carts. The Arcadia and the Interton consoles look pretty much the same. It would be a surprise for me if there wouldn't be identical parts in them. And the ones used for the mpt-03-family can be found for: Arcadia: mpt-03, Tryom RCA: Sheen M1200, Conic M1200, Mustang 9016, Hanimex/Soundic mpt-02 As you know there are two variants of mpt-03-carts. With and without "contact protection", all the RCA-clone-carts came without. The Hanimex/Soundic/Victory mpt-02 consoles look pretty much the same as the mpt-03 consoles. While the Conic, Sheen and Mustang ones pretty much look like Ormatu-family and ITMC consoles. And again I would be very surprised if there wouldn't be identical parts in them. A few words about the companies: All of them (except Tryom) were active in PAL markets (Europe and Australia) and most of them were only importing stuff. Poppy, Sanwa & Mustang consoles were sold in Germany. They were imported from Transonic Intermarket a Hamburg based import company. Unimex (from Wiesbaden in Germany) products were sold mainly in Germany. They imported all kinds of videogame stuff. Unimex was also the company that first sold the Atari 2600 in Germany (in very small numbers before Atari Germany was founded in 1980) and they also sold an Interton-clone, the Mark X (Radofin, Acetronic, etc family). I don't know anything about Conic and Sheen, except that Conic stuff can be found in different countries among them the Netherlands, Germany, Australia and Italy. Sheen stuff comes mostly from Australia. I don't know anything about ITMC (France) and Nicole (Italy) Hanimex sold mainly cameras and equipment for them. Later on they entered the videogame and computer market with several products. Hanimex stuff was sold in Italy, Germany Canada, the UK, Australia? I don't think that any of these companies produced anything by themselves. A possible scenario for me is that there were one or more Hong Kong based companies which supplied all the electronic companies, mail order companies, etc. with video games. They mixed the cases, etc. they had and delivered a videogame system. I don't think that they've cared to much about questions like is it fun, is it up to date, etc. It was "gold rush" and everybody wanted to be in the highly profitable videogame market. For me an interesting company among them could be Soundic. I've read a discussion about them somewhere, but don't remember where. I'll try to find it later on. Jens #2227 From: "lucifershalo" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 3:06 pm Subject: rarity help and where to find those games I am back with my game list (lol) as I am kind of new in collecting arcadia 2001 games I need some help could someone rate the games I am looking for according to their rarities and in which countries-regions do I have the best chances to find them? thanks AUTO RACE CIRCUS CRAZY CLIMBER DORAEMON FUNKY FISH JUNGLER MOBILE SOLDIER GUNDAM MONACO GRAND PRIX PARASHOOTER / PARACHUTE PLEIADES R2D TANK SPACE MISSION SUPER BUG SUPER DIMENSION FORTRESS MACROSS ps hello Jens, laurent from belgium here #2228 From: "Jens Brinkmann" Date: Wed Apr 16, 2008 10:27 pm Subject: Re: rarity help and where to find those games Hi Laurent! Good to see you here! Not all of them were released for the Emerson family. mpt-03/Ormatu: > AUTO RACE > CIRCUS > CRAZY CLIMBER > PARASHOOTER / PARACHUTE > SUPER BUG Palladium: > MONACO GRAND PRIX (aka Video-Autorennen) These games exist as Hanimex, Schmid, etc versions: > FUNKY FISH > JUNGLER > PLEIADES > R2D TANK > SPACE MISSION These are Japanese games (Bandai Arcadia): > DORAEMON > MOBILE SOLDIER GUNDAM > SUPER DIMENSION FORTRESS MACROSS I have some of these games for trade. I'll check out which ones later on. Which Interton games do you need? By the way, if you want all the different games and programs released for the Arcadia group, this is what you need: 3D Attack 3D Bowling 3D Soccer Alien Invaders American Football Astro Invader Auto Race Baseball Basketball Black Jack & Poker Boxing Brain Quiz Breakaway Capture Cat Trax Circus Combat Crazy Climber Crazy Gobbler Devilman The Dot Muncher/Nibblemen Doraemon Dr. Slump: Arare Escape Funky Fish Golf Grand Slam Tennis Hobo Horse Racing Jump Bug Jungler KiDou SenShi Gundamu Missile War Ocean Battle Parashooter Pleiades R2D Tank Red Clash Robot Killer Route 16 Soccer Space Attack Space Mission Space Raiders Space Squadron Space Vultures Spiders Star Chess Super Bug Super Dimension Fortress Macross Super Gobbler Tanks A Lot The End Turtles/Turpin Video-Lexikon Video-Panzerspiel/Battle You can find rarity information, etc. for most of them at www.digitpress.com Jens #2229 From: darius dawn Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:23 am Subject: Re: Re: rarity help and where to find those games thanks for that answer, I knew already about all the games not being from the same family (I did my study lol) but it doesnt bother me to have games from other family and simply have to sharpen the extra plastic on the cart to make it fit anyway I am planning to buy a console from another arcadia family than Emerson's (any arcadia console other than Emerson/tunix for sale?) I dont have any arcadia games to trade but well some Interton or atari,vectrex, etc or I can buy your games so please think about me after modding (well René Van den Enden did it for me) the VC4000 to have a better video output, I will do the same for the arcadia, so I kind of "rediscovering" that console and would like to complete my collection thanks for the complete list of arcadia games but I knew all of them except one (nibblemen) and I put in my want list only the ones that I dont have and are interested in playing I have 3D BOWLING ALIEN INVADERS AMERICAN FOOTBALL ASTRO INVADER BREAKAWAY CAPTURE CAT TRAX CRAZY GOBBLER ESCAPE HOBO JUMP BUG MISSILE WAR OCEAN BATTLE RED CLASH ROBOT KILLER ROUTE 16 SPACE ATTACK SPACE RAIDERS SPACE SQUADRON SPACE VULTURES SPIDERS SUPER GOBBLER TANKS A LOT THE END TURTLES / TURPIN in INTERTON I am looking for interton 28 cockpit interton 40 super space and in not interton but for the vc4000 (here I dont know if the carts are compatible enough to work on the interton) CRAZY CRAB GALACTIC SPACE BATTLES HEAD ON LASER ATTACK LEAP FROG MONSTER MUNCHERS MUNCH AND CRUNCH PLANET DEFENDER SEA WOLF SPACE BATTLE SUPER KNOCKOUT ps I also have a channel f + some games for trade (private joke!!) #2230 From: "Jens Brinkmann" Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 1:59 am Subject: Re: rarity help and where to find those games >have to sharpen the extra plastic on the cart to make it fit That won't help you with the mpt-03/Ormatu/Palladium games. >I dont have any arcadia games to trade but well some Interton or >atari,vectrex, etc or I can buy your games so please think about me >after modding (well René Van den Enden did it for me) the VC4000 to >have a better video output, I will do the same for the arcadia, so I >kind of "rediscovering" that console and would like to complete my >collection Do you have documentation for the VC4000 mod? I'm using a "Grundig Super Play Computer" with a special Grundig TV set for a good picture, but that takes a lot of space. >and in not interton but for the vc4000 (here I dont know if the >carts are compatible enough to work on the interton) The carts are not compatible, but there are different family adaptors. The problem is that they're extremely difficult to find. The only one I've found so far is an adaptor to play Voltmace games on a Radofin/Audio Sonic/etc system. I think the easiest way is to buy the different systems. I'll send you an email about the trading. Jens #2231 From: darius dawn Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 2:36 am Subject: Re: Re: rarity help and where to find those games >Do you have documentation for the VC4000 mod? I'm using a "Grundig >Super Play Computer" with a special Grundig TV set for a good >picture, but that takes a lot of space. I didnt do that modification at all René Van Den Enden did it you should ask him #2232 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 7:19 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System >If this is true and the CS Pin of the UVI is also only connected to >the A12 Pin of the CPU the mapping of Address space $1000 to $1FFF >would look like this: I have updated the Coding Guide as follows: $0000..$0FFF ROM (1st 4K chunk) 4096 bytes $1000..$10FF G: mirror of $1800..$18FF 256 bytes H: 256 bytes of CPU RAM 256 bytes (1st RAM bank) $1100..$11FF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes $1200..$12FF G: mirror of $1A00..$1AFF 256 bytes H: 256 bytes of CPU RAM 256 bytes (2nd RAM bank) $1300..$13FF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes $1400..$14FF G: mirror of $1800..$18FF 256 bytes H: mirror of $1000..$10FF 256 bytes $1500..$15FF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes $1600..$16FF G: mirror of $1A00..$1AFF 256 bytes H: mirror of $1200..$12FF 256 bytes $1700..$17FF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes $1800..$18FF 256 bytes of CPU+UVI RAM 256 bytes (3rd RAM bank) $1800..$18CF upper screen 208 bytes $18D0..$18EF user RAM 32 bytes $18F0..$18F7 hardware registers 8 bytes $18F8..$18FB user RAM 4 bytes $18FC..$18FF hardware registers 4 bytes $1900..$19FF keyboard and UVI internal 256 bytes $1900..$1908 hardware registers 9 bytes $1909..$197F unmapped 119 bytes $1980..$19BF hardware registers 64 bytes (sprite and UDC imagery) $19C0..$19F7 unmapped 56 bytes $19F8..$19FF hardware registers 8 bytes $1A00..$1AFF G,H: 256 bytes of CPU+UVI RAM 256 bytes (4th RAM bank) I: mirror of $1800..$18FF? 256 bytes $1B00..$1BFF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes $1C00..$1EFF mirror of $1800..$1AFF 768 bytes $1F00..$1FFF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes $2000..$2FFF ROM (2nd 4K chunk) 4096 bytes $3000..$3FFF mirror of $1000..$1FFF? 4096 bytes $4000..$4FFF ROM (3rd 4K chunk) 4096 bytes $5000..$5FFF mirror of $1000..$1FFF? 4096 bytes $6000..$6FFF ROM (4th 4K chunk) 4096 bytes $7000..$7FFF mirror of $1000..$1FFF? 4096 bytes "G": Emerson Arcadia 2001. 3rd and 4th RAM banks are present. "H": Tele-Fever. 1st..4th RAM banks are present. "I": Early Palladium. 1st RAM bank is present. #2233 From: "manni211" Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 10:59 am Subject: Re: rarity help and where to find those games "Jens Brinkmann" wrote: > > Do you have documentation for the VC4000 mod? I'm using a "Grundig > Super Play Computer" with a special Grundig TV set for a good > picture, > but that takes a lot of space. > Hi Jens, I have drawn a schematic of the Videogenerator for the "Grundig Super Play Computer". It is available on the Webpage of James at http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/ as Schematic Pack. That may help you to figure out the Pin for connection. In principal it is a RGB output with seperate sync and Audio signal. But there is a other problem that you have to solve if you don't want to use the Grundig TV and that's the Powersupply, because that's also coming for the TV Set. Manfred #2234 From: "manni211" Date: Thu Apr 17, 2008 11:09 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "Amigan Software" wrote: > > >If this is true and the CS Pin of the UVI is also only connected to > >the A12 Pin of the CPU the mapping of Address space $1000 to $1FFF > >would look like this: > > I have updated the Coding Guide as follows: $1900..$19FF keyboard and UVI internal 256 bytes > $1900..$1908 hardware registers 9 bytes > $1909..$197F unmapped 119 bytes > Hi James, when I was looking to your new memory mapping I noticed this gap from $1909-$197F. So I check the emerson Service manual with the schematics of the arcardia in it. If that is correct( may need's to be verified by someone who have a real machine) the mapping would be as follows. $1900..$1908 hardware registers 9 bytes $1909..$190F unmapped $1910..$191F mirror of $1900..$190F $1920..$192F mirror of $1900..$190F $1930..$193F mirror of $1900..$190F $1940..$194F mirror of $1900..$190F $1950..$195F mirror of $1900..$190F $1960..$196F mirror of $1900..$190F $1970..$197F mirror of $1900..$190F Manfred #2235 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:21 am Subject: Re: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System Thanks Manfred, I have updated the Coding Guide and am making the appropriate changes to the emulators. For "early Palladium" (256-byte) mode, I have made $1A00..$1AFF mirror $1800..$18FF, but no games work in that configuration :-( #2236 From: "manni211" Date: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:12 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "James Jacobs" wrote: > For "early Palladium" (256-byte) mode, I have made $1A00..$1AFF mirror > $1800..$18FF, but no games work in that configuration :-( > Hi James, the "early Palladium" have 4 Chips with 256 Bit x 4 which are in total 512 Bytes and they are located in the memorymap from $1800-$18FF and from $1A00-$1AFF. I had a look at the palladium schematics at your Webpage and here it shows only 2 chips of type 2114 of which each one have 1024 x 4 bit. Make in total 1K of Ram were of only 512 Bytes accessable. This is also the case on my Palladium. The memory map is also slightly different to the Arcadia in that respects, that the mirroring from $1000-$17FF does not occur. But their must be different revisions of the Palladium out, because Ward seems to have a Palladium with the above mentioned 4 chips and I don't know, without having a look at this board, if the mirroring from $1000-$17FF on this one exists or not. May be Ward can clarify that point. Manfred #2237 From: "manni211" Date: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:10 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "ward_shrake" wrote: > > information" ... I think I uploaded my older (v2.7x) FAQ there. That > has lots of pinout information and the like. I was just re-reading it > this weekend, and the A12 line isn't hooked up as you'd think it ought > to be, as far as the cart slot goes. Maybe that (above) explains why? > I'll have to think about it some more, before I have more to say. > Hi Ward, just a couple of extra thought about this CS/A12 'problem'. Pin 30 of the cartslot is definitely connected to A12 of the CPU. The 'driver' of this line is the CPU. from the CPU view - if it activates A12(set to high) it want to access 'memory' in the range from $1000-$1FFF(the Range were the UVI is at)and set to low it want to access 'memory' from $0000-$0FFF(the Range were the ROM is at). I ignore A13 and A14 at this point. Also in the beginning 80's 4K ROM was a huge amount of memory. The UVI's CS Pin is activ high the ROM CE pin is activ low. So the A12 line could simply be used as a addressdecoder. Why should their be an extra Chip to be use for addressdecoding if you could to it this was. It's just simple and good. The same technics are used in the Interton cartriges. Manfred #2238 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:18 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "manni211" wrote: > > wrote: > > > > At this point, the main or defining difference seems to be RAM size > > or configuration: the Palladium having 512 bytes spread across four > > chips; the Arcadia having 512 bytes spread across two chips; and > > the Tele-Fever having those same two chips, but wired up as 1024 > > bytes. > > What Palladium machine do you have? I have one here in front of me and > this one only have 2 RAM chips Type 2114. > It look's like their are also different Version of Palladium's out. I don't have one of those machines, at all. I was referring to older postings by PeT and others. PeT, as I recall it now, had a four-chip version of the Palladium. #2239 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:30 pm Subject: Re: Jump Bug differences "James Jacobs" wrote: > > >I had a quick look at the instructions I have: The level selection > feature is documented in the Tele-Fever, the Hanimex and the Cosmos > instructions. It's not documented in the Schmid TVG 2000 instructions. > > Thanks Jens. > > >There is no Emerson version of Jump Bug. > > Sorry, I was being a little loose with > my terminology. The dump in question > was made by Ward Shrake in 1999 from > a "Emerson family" cart loaned to him > by Joe Santulli. Ward, do you remember > the exact machine the cartridge was > intended for? Not "exactly," no. I'd have to check through old e-mails, and see if I or Joe ever mentioned it; but Joe would likely know, for sure. My current best wild guess is that it was likely a Leisure-Vision cart; or failing that, maybe a Tele-Fever cart. I say that because (per my "credits-by-date.txt" file) that was right at about the time period that we had first learned that different families even existed. There had only been one previous non-Emerson-family cart dump; and it was 2.5 months after Joe's carts got dumped, that the first MPT-03 (non-Orbit cart; labelled as MPT-03) cart got dumped. So I'm thinking it would have been something "pretty normal" -- which, to me, would have been either an Emerson release or a Leisure-Vision, at that time. I saw very few of the European carts ... aside from a few Tele-Fever's, later. My memory of it could be flawed; so "ask Joe, directly" would be best. #2240 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Apr 20, 2008 5:54 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "manni211" wrote: > > The UVI's CS Pin is activ high the ROM > CE pin is active low. So the A12 line > could simply be used as a address decoder. > Why should their be an extra Chip to be > use for address decoding if you could to > it this was. It's just simple and good. Yeah, that is rather elegant; isn't it? I like that! It makes sense that A12 would be used for such things, too ... if one factors in that the CPU had a limit of 4k at a time, that it could look at. Since it would never be able to use (theoretically, anyway; at any given moment) the upper half of an 8k block of memory, why not run the A12 line out to other places; and use it as you said, above? The problem later became that they DID decide to go with 8k chunks of ROM, in the later cartridge releases. But before that, they went with 6k carts: the older 2k ROMs then being presumably much cheaper; so it would not have been all that big of a cost increase, versus potential profits for a better-playing, more complicated game, to use the then- standard 4k ROM (or EPROM) chips; plus throwing in a 2k chip, as well. James -- take another look at Golf, please; or tell us what you had to do to patch that one, to get it to work like later carts did. I'm of the opinion that one was an interim "how do we manage two blocks at once" cart ... and they later came up with much simpler methods. If memory serves, another one like that would be American Football. I have a "long cart" board or two that has all sorts of extra stuff on it, that was used to bankswitch the two different blocks of 4k or 2k. My feeling is that the MP-1000 console (by APF) was at least partly manufactured or assembled in Hong Kong, by some group of folks that later became an independent agency: the one we know as UA Limited. One of the last carts ever made for the APF was "Space Destroyers". All of the carts that came before that, were identical (plastic-wise) to what we know as "short style Emerson cart cases". The SD game by APF would not fit into those cases; so APF made newer, taller cases. If you look inside the earliest tall plastic cases "by Emerson" you will find some lettering inside, that matches that SD cart case. (You would have to look it up on the group's web site, but I think I made a post about that, before?) > The same technics are used in > the Interton cartriges. Interesting. Care to add more to that? (Or has it already been written up, and is available someplace?) #2241 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Apr 20, 2008 6:02 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "manni211" wrote: > > >"ward_shrake" wrote: > > > > information" ... I think I uploaded my older (v2.7x) FAQ there. That > > has lots of pinout information and the like. I was just re- reading it > > this weekend, and the A12 line isn't hooked up as you'd think it ought > > to be, as far as the cart slot goes. Maybe that (above) explains why? > > I'll have to think about it some more, before I have more to say. > > > Hi Ward, > just a couple of extra thought about this CS/A12 'problem'. > Pin 30 of the cartslot is definitely connected to A12 of the CPU. > The 'driver' of this line is the CPU. > from the CPU view - if it activates A12(set to high) it want to access > 'memory' in the range from $1000-$1FFF(the Range were the UVI is > at)and set to low it want to access 'memory' from $0000-$0FFF(the > Range were the ROM is at). I ignore A13 and A14 at this point. Another thought: when I was looking through the "a-coding.txt" file that James keeps on his site, and making my own version of the map of the Arcadia's memory, I kept thinking to myself that the thing comes across or resembles a 4k + 4k memory organization. What I mean is: the system does seem like it was designed and planned with the "4k is a huge amount of memory; all we'll ever need" mindset. The first half of any 8k bank is cartridge ROM; the second half is "the system". Just thinking out loud, here, but I wouldn't be too surprised to find out a very early version of this system was planned or built, in exactly that configuration? By which I mean: that it could only see 8k, total? Could be wrong there; as my memory tells me that the CPU could "see" 4 banks worth of that: 4 x 8k being 32k. (Was the Interton sort of set up on that idea of only having 8k total? Or were they trying hard to leave room for later expansion, beyond that?) #2242 From: "manni211" Date: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:17 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "ward_shrake" wrote: > things, at the moment. Meanwhile, check this out, if you would: > > http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_ > information/ > > I just uploaded what I called a proportional memory map, there. It is > preliminary only. It was something I typed up, recently. It's based > on the memory map, as shown in James Jacobs' "a-coding.txt" document > (on his web site; see the links section on this group's web site; or > recent messages). I looked at your Memory Map for the Arcadia 2001 console. and if I compare this to the actual machine schematics I think the mapping of addressrange $1900-$197F should look like the following: $1900..$1908 hardware registers 9 bytes $1909..$190F unmapped $1910..$191F mirror of $1900..$190F $1920..$192F mirror of $1900..$190F $1930..$193F mirror of $1900..$190F $1940..$194F mirror of $1900..$190F $1950..$195F mirror of $1900..$190F $1960..$196F mirror of $1900..$190F $1970..$197F mirror of $1900..$190F Also with the cartslot used in the Arcadia I don't see how memory from $4000 and above could really be accessed, because you would need Addressline A14 for that, but this Pin is not connected to anything at the CPU. That mean's $4000-$7FFF is just a mirror of $0000-$3FFF as far as a cartridge see's this. do you agree? Manfred #2243 From: "manni211" Date: Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:47 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "ward_shrake" wrote: > > If memory serves, another one like that would be American Football. I > have a "long cart" board or two that has all sorts of extra stuff on > it, that was used to bankswitch the two different blocks of 4k or 2k. That really interesting. Do you have a picture or scan of it which you could sent me? > > My feeling is that the MP-1000 console (by APF) was at least partly > manufactured or assembled in Hong Kong, by some group of folks that > later became an independent agency: the one we know as UA Limited. > Talking about the MP-1000. Is the board inside this machine the same as the one that could be found in the Arcadia? I have 2 other consoles, the Hanimex 2650 and the Schmid TVG 2000, which looks outside simular to the Arcadia. The board inside are identical to the picture of the Arcadia you posted, except for one chip which is located between the crystal oszilator and the sync generator. At your picture there is just an empty Space. I think it only have to do with the difference between NTSC and PAL, but I will check in more detail. > > The same technics are used in > > the Interton cartriges. > > > Interesting. Care to add more to that? (Or has it already been > written up, and is available someplace?) I have drawn wiring diagrams of all the Interton cartdriges. They are available at James Webpage in the Schematics pack. I also have scans of boards used by Interton. Are they of any interessed? So I could upload them to the Hardware info. Manfred #2244 From: "manni211" Date: Mon Apr 21, 2008 12:20 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "Amigan Software" wrote: > > >If this is true and the CS Pin of the UVI is also only connected to > >the A12 Pin of the CPU the mapping of Address space $1000 to $1FFF > >would look like this: > > I have updated the Coding Guide as follows: > > $0000..$0FFF ROM (1st 4K chunk) 4096 bytes > $1000..$10FF G: mirror of $1800..$18FF 256 bytes > H: 256 bytes of CPU RAM 256 bytes (1st RAM bank) > $1100..$11FF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes > $1200..$12FF G: mirror of $1A00..$1AFF 256 bytes > H: 256 bytes of CPU RAM 256 bytes (2nd RAM bank) > $1300..$13FF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes > $1400..$14FF G: mirror of $1800..$18FF 256 bytes > H: mirror of $1000..$10FF 256 bytes > $1500..$15FF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes > $1600..$16FF G: mirror of $1A00..$1AFF 256 bytes > H: mirror of $1200..$12FF 256 bytes > $1700..$17FF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes > $1800..$18FF 256 bytes of CPU+UVI RAM 256 bytes (3rd RAM bank) > $1800..$18CF upper screen 208 bytes > $18D0..$18EF user RAM 32 bytes > $18F0..$18F7 hardware registers 8 bytes > $18F8..$18FB user RAM 4 bytes > $18FC..$18FF hardware registers 4 bytes > $1900..$19FF keyboard and UVI internal 256 bytes > $1900..$1908 hardware registers 9 bytes > $1909..$197F unmapped 119 bytes > $1980..$19BF hardware registers 64 bytes > (sprite and UDC imagery) > $19C0..$19F7 unmapped 56 bytes > $19F8..$19FF hardware registers 8 bytes > $1A00..$1AFF G,H: 256 bytes of CPU+UVI RAM 256 bytes (4th RAM bank) > I: mirror of $1800..$18FF? 256 bytes > $1B00..$1BFF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes > $1C00..$1EFF mirror of $1800..$1AFF 768 bytes > $1F00..$1FFF mirror of $1900..$19FF 256 bytes > $2000..$2FFF ROM (2nd 4K chunk) 4096 bytes > $3000..$3FFF mirror of $1000..$1FFF? 4096 bytes > $4000..$4FFF ROM (3rd 4K chunk) 4096 bytes > $5000..$5FFF mirror of $1000..$1FFF? 4096 bytes > $6000..$6FFF ROM (4th 4K chunk) 4096 bytes > $7000..$7FFF mirror of $1000..$1FFF? 4096 bytes > > "G": Emerson Arcadia 2001. 3rd and 4th RAM banks are present. > "H": Tele-Fever. 1st..4th RAM banks are present. > "I": Early Palladium. 1st RAM bank is present. > Hi James, I was checking a Palladium console which I recently bought. It's not one of the earliest ones, but this is the type of machine which are sold here in Germany. This one have a board which fits to the schematics that you have at your Webpage and also the one posted here in this forum. Memory mapping for this machine will look like this: $0000..$0FFF ROM (1st 4K chunk) $1000..$17FF current unused, but could be used by a cartdrige $1800..$1BFF same as on the arcadia $1C00..$1FFF current unused, but could be used by a cartdrige $2000..$7FFF all useable memory for a cartdrige. No mirroring Manfred #2245 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:55 am Subject: Re: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System So, up to 31K of ROM... :-) The only current 12K program (Dictionary, for Palladium) loads into $0000..$0FFF, $2000..$2FFF, $4000..$4FFF. But I guess you could load them to any address depending on the wiring of the cartridge. I will add support for Tele-Fever and Palladium memory mapping in Ami/WinArcadia 6.01. #2246 From: "manni211" Date: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:45 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "ward_shrake" wrote: > Just thinking out loud, here, but I wouldn't be too surprised to find > out a very early version of this system was planned or built, in > exactly that configuration? By which I mean: that it could only see > 8k, total? I agree to that. Because if you have a look at the Datasheet of the UVI at Page 5 figure 1 Typical Game Configuration they only talk about 2616 or 2632 type of Roms. Then by the Time UAL took over the production they may though about that an increase of Program space will help them to find a way in to the market. So they decide to put addressline A13 onto the Cartdrigeslot and have 8K of ROM available. But they didn't though further. Instead they left a couple of Pin's on the Cartdrigeconnector empty, instead of connecting this to A14 and a couple of other signal's from the CPU. That's just all guessing what they though. May be one time we get contact to one of the Designer's of UAL and he could answer this. It's could also be that they want to do this in a future machine(the Arcadia 2002). But as I said before -- just guessing. The picture on the Palladium look's totally different. Here you have all Addresslines (A0-A14) connect to the slot. Not only that, also R/W, M/IO, WRP and more are available. At least on the Palladium 2x2114 RAM) I have. I don't know what the early Palladium, the one with the 4 x 2112 RAM is setup. Maybe PeT can answer this? > Could be wrong there; as my memory tells me that the CPU > could "see" 4 banks worth of that: 4 x 8k being 32k. (Was the > Interton sort of set up on that idea of only having 8k total? Or were > they trying hard to leave room for later expansion, beyond that?) The Interton was, to my opinion, never designed to address more than 8K in total. Also the other Machine like Radofin, Hanimex, Prinztronic.. even they have more Pins available on the Cartdrige connector. The cartdrige connector at all machines only have Addresslines A0-A12 connected to the CPU. At the Interton is one Pin of the connector unused. Here they could at least connect A13 to. Why they didn't do this -- no idea. But on the other hand they connected the R/W the WRD to the slot so they can have not just ROM on the cart but also RAM, which is an advantage over the Arcadia. Manfred #2247 From: "manni211" Date: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:01 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "James Jacobs" wrote: > > So, up to 31K of ROM... :-) Yes, a lot of space to play around with. Also the old marketing advertisements with the 28K Ram becomes more reallity. ;-) > > The only current 12K program (Dictionary, for Palladium) loads into > $0000..$0FFF, $2000..$2FFF, $4000..$4FFF. But I guess you could load them to > any address depending on the wiring of the cartridge. This is true. Do you know somebody who owns one of these Cartdriges and or might post pictures of the Internals of it? Manfred #2248 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:43 am Subject: Re: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System >So they decide to put addressline A13 onto the Cartdrigeslot and have 8K of ROM available. Does this mean then that Dictionary (Video-Lexikon) (12K) would not run on an Emerson? nor on a Tele-Fever? I don't think anyone has put it on a multicart for testing? #2249 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:46 am Subject: Re: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System >Do you know somebody who owns one of these Cartdriges and or might post pictures of the Internals of it? PeT has one... #2250 From: "manni211" Date: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:41 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System "James Jacobs" wrote: > > >So they decide to put addressline A13 onto the Cartdrigeslot and have 8K > of ROM available. > > Does this mean then that Dictionary (Video-Lexikon) (12K) would not run on > an Emerson? nor on a Tele-Fever? I don't think anyone has put it on a > multicart for testing? > You are right. It will not run on an Emerson and as far as I know their was never a Cartdrige released for it. I'm not so sure for the Tele-Fever, because I don't know which Board was use for this machine. Ward seem to have a Tele-Fever console. May be he can confirm that the Board used in the Tele-Fever is the same as on the Arcadia, at least as far as the Cartslot connector is connected? Manfred #2251 From: "manni211" Date: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:54 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System Hello Peter, if you still a cartridge of the dictionary for the Palladium would you mind to post some pictures or scans of the internals of this modul. As far a I know their are three single cartridges which you have to put together. A Basemodul which have to be inserted in to the Palladium slot and then a German and one English word module. Manfred #2252 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Mon Apr 28, 2008 8:38 am Subject: tele-fever.de Looks like http://tele-fever.de/ is back online and updated...all in German though... Gotta love the Jump Bug T-shirts ;-) #2255 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Jun 1, 2008 8:54 am Subject: New files I uploaded an updated SpriteMaker, version 6. This version fixes a few minor operational bugs in version 5, but the flow and functionality have not changed. I have also uploaded TextMaker, version 1. This program allows you to create the Arcadia text screens on your PC, then translates them into an ASM compatible file that can be pasted into your source code. Both 1800h and 1A00h screens are supported; just add the color and resolution commands to your source. #2256 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:07 am Subject: PIPBUG-based machines emulator released The new Ami/WinArcadia 7.0 can emulate terminal-based machines running the PIPBUG firmware (eg. the Electronics Australia 77up2 and the Signetics Adaptable Board Computer). Software for these machines is of course sought, if anyone has any. Also there is now support for Charlie's TextMakerEA application, among other new features. http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/ Enjoy... #2257 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Fri Jun 20, 2008 10:57 am Subject: Interton/Grundig prototype carts Stumbled across this... http://www.pong-picture-page.de/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=2037 Looks to be a prototype of Monster-Man. I wonder what the other ones mentioned are... #2258 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Thu Jul 3, 2008 6:25 am Subject: Re: Interton/Grundig prototype carts Jens, are you planning to dump these? There are a lot of Interton-family carts, even just common games let alone prototypes/pirate versions, that have never been dumped, so it would be really helpful. Do you have any photos or descriptions of the other cartridges? #2259 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:34 am Subject: Re: Interton/Grundig prototype carts >Looks to be a prototype of Monster-Man. I wonder what the other ones >mentioned are... Apparently they are pirate carts, see http://www.pong-picture-page.de/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=106&products_id=1\ 766 #2260 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sat Aug 23, 2008 2:19 am Subject: Digital Press is seeking updates for their Collector's Guide Over on the APF group's web site, (see LINKS on this group's site), Joe Santulli of Digital Press just joined; and asked for updates he can include in the next edition of the Digital Press Collector's Guide. I presume he'd also be interested in hearing about Arcadia updates ... so if anyone has anything new, mentioning it here might be of help? Over on the other site, I already made a quick reference to our group discovery that there are three main types or eras of this "system": the earliest being the Palladium machine; the middle-era being most of the other consoles and their games; and the last one being the Tele-Fever. I also mentioned that I discovered that the mold tooling for the APF company's earlier game console (M-1000 or MP-1000) was re-used by the makers of the so-called Emerson Arcadia 2001 machine, and clones. Also, over on the other ("APF_consoles_and_computers" or some such) group on Yahoo, we've recently shown why Arcadia carts come in two different lengths: because APF made a really good clone of the arcade game Space Invaders (which they called "Space Destroyers," instead); and it needed five chips total, inside that one special cart, to pull off that feat. (Eleven invaders across, on most other game consoles, wasn't something commonly done. Most clones had fewer invaders.) So, because "we're not afraid to spend money" APF had two different cart styles, over that system's life-span ... there were two different cart style's mold tooling available, that got bought up or otherwise changed hands, when APF went bankrupt, and dropped out of the "game". #2261 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:00 pm Subject: Re: Interton/Grundig prototype carts http://www.pong-picture-page.de/catalog/product_info.php? cPath=106&products_id=1766 The one that has a hand-written "30" on it was etched by hand; and had a few places where the traces got too etched away. Those traces had to be repaired by laying a thick layer of solder over what remained of each trace: which is what those lines of solder are, in the middle of six of those traces. But what's more important, as far as "dating" that cart goes, is the date code on the masked ROM chip. The "8236" means the 36th week of 1982. The "GI" in front of that is the manufacturer's name: General Instruments. (But that's for the ROM chip; the board could have been etched and soldered by anyone.) The other codes on that ROM (silk-screened on?) may or may not mean much, without some way to look up the codes: and that means being able to look at General Instrument's old books, or files, or however they kept track of orders for masked ROMs, requested by others. The part that says "9316" is a bit of a misnomer: some people think it's the actual part number, but a number of manufacturers used that same code to mean different things. Bally, for instance, had several 9316 types; differentiated by a "-a," or "-b," etc. All it probably indicates is that it *may* mean the ROM holds 2k of information; but with a pin layout that would have to be figured out by someone familiar with chips that old. Things to try, in terms of a pinout, would be a standard 2716 or 2516; the odd ROM chips used by APF, in their M-1000 and/or MP-1000 system; or Bally pinball games. The one big thing is that a large, well-known commercial company named General Instruments manufactured that ROM chip in the 36th week of 1982. That seems like a long time after the market folded and died off, for anything related to the VC-4000 game system. So I have to wonder: if it's not for Interton's system, what was it meant for? And why did someone put in an order that most likely was 50,000 or 100,000 masked ROMs? (My presumed guess of what the minimum or average order was, for making ROMs.) The fact that the PC board was etched by hand could mean anything; but it tends to push things towards being a prototype or a homebrew, rather than a pirated game, I would think. Why put a very expensive masked ROM chip (given minimum orders, etc.), that had to be made by a third-party company; when the board wasn't commercially created? So far, I'm seeing more questions than answers, by looking at those carts. I agree with James that it would answer much, if someone were to dump the contents of those ROM chips. (PeT, if he's interested, would be a good choice for dumping them; I'm assuming he's in that part of the world? Closer than someone like me, who's in the US? If memory serves, PeT dumped quite a number of the VC-4000's games.) #2262 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:27 pm Subject: Re: Interton/Grundig prototype carts http://www.pong-picture-page.de/catalog/product_info.php? cPath=106&products_id=1766 One thing that I see, that very few others might notice, is that the traces are generally "too straight" for this to be a crude effort to get a board up and working, from scratch, in a short period of time. The lettering along the side is also an indication of exactness of work, when laying out the board's design. (In the old days, this was a job for strips of tape, laid over a piece of clear mylar or some other type of clear or near-clear plastic: vellum, in some cases, might do. It depends on if they were going to use that as the master artwork, or as something to generate a copy from: such as a contact negative.) My point is: it's too neat for a rush job. But it fits the era just fine. It's a high-end piece of work, for the era: not something a kid did. The precise horizontal and vertical alignment make me think this is the later board design; with the other board seen on that site, as being the earlier one. Maybe one was the "test" board; and the other was the "it works, so let's lay one out, a little neater, this time; because they general public will see the final work, at some point." For what it's worth: I still lay up boards of my own design, using a modified version of those older processes. (I can't make a contact negative, yet: it takes a process camera and a bunch of stuff home users can't even remotely afford. Stuff like a newspaper or high-end print shop would use; but that's about it. I cheat by doing a lot of the lay-up work with rub-on transfers, or even hand-drawing lines with a Sharpie pen / marker, or a technical drafting pen ... and then copying that interim artwork into a semi-modern PC, with a scanner; then doing a printout onto clear film, using an inkjet or laser printer.) But back on topic -- the two resistors seen are very high quality ones. The gold stripe indicates the most precise tolerances likely to be needed, for general industrial use. They're not the equivalent of the medium-precision resistors one would find at Radio Shack, or the European equivalent electronics store. And the resistor's bodies also seem like over-kill, for such an application: made to handle more of a heat problem than I'd think likely, for a simple application. Even the bent wire, just to the left of the resistors, is too precise for the average guy to have done, in an evening of assembling a kit. Both boards, by the way, are made of fiberglass -- the reddish circle design is inside the layers of glass, from the raw board's makers. It is a common way to mark raw boards. You can get such boards from most of the better, higher-end electronics stores; so that alone wouldn't mean a whole lot. It could just mean someone did the 1980's equivalent of putting in an order from Digikey, or Mouser, or Jameco. My point about the PC board materials is that it's not crap. The lowest quality, high-production-numbers boards aren't fiberglass: it's an unreinforced resin, that's sort of molded into final shape. The silver coloring can also be done at home -- but usually isn't. It's a way to tin plate the exposed copper surfaces, to make it easier to solder things onto the board. (And maybe avoid some level of corrosion.) However, neither board has "conformal coating" over the board's etched and drilled surface. It's only done on production boards, that will go into an assembly line's wave-soldering machine, for final assembly. Protos and/or kits don't bother with that stage, since it adds significant cost, (and time to design the "solder mask" art) ... and doesn't accomplish much but make the board look "more official". If you're going to solder everything by hand, it's not necessary. And if you're soldering everything by hand, you're not making many boards. I'd have to say, again, that the board's design and components tell me it's too much of a "let's avoid problems," over-kill situation, to be a kit for students to put together (unless the company making the kit likes going out of business for spending too much money!?). It's just a bit above what I'd expect to see in a kit, quality-wise. To me, as a guy with a fair amount of PC board creation experience, I'd say that silver-colored one's a second-generation prototype; with the other one being the first generation, from the same source. May not be, but that's where I'd put my money, at this point, if betting. #2263 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:36 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "manni211" wrote: > --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, "ward_shrake" > wrote: > >> If memory serves, another one like that >> would be American Football. I have a >> "long cart" board or two that has all >> sorts of extra stuff on it, that was >> used to bankswitch the two different >> blocks of 4k or 2k. > > That really interesting. Do you have a > picture or scan of it which you > could send me? First off, let me apologize for taking this long to answer you! I simply wasn't looking at any message boards about video games, for about four months. But I'm trying to get caught back up, now. I do have pictures; yes. Check the FILES part of this group's web site, first. If nothing there is helpful or relevant, check on the yahoo group for the APF Imagination Machine. That's a much more active board, and there are some "cross-overs" between the two machines -- mostly just the plastic parts used; not electronics -- so I've made some of my recent Arcadia comments, on that group's site. > Talking about the MP-1000. Is the board > inside this machine the same as the one > that could be found in the Arcadia? No. They are TOTALLY different; different everything! The processor's are not even from the same manufacturers; support chips are all very different, etc. The main relationship is that some of the same people that were paid to assemble the machine that APF made, apparently went on to make their own company, after APF filed for the legal system's bankruptcy protection, and went out of business. It appears that UA Limited was involved with both machines; first, as employees; later, as the folks running a seperate company. UAL seemed to have learned from the "mindset" mistakes that APF made; and they over-reacted to those problems, to avoid also going out of business. However, they swung too far the other way, I think; and the dominant competitors of the time took full advantage of the new-and- improved mistakes that were made; thereby driving UAL off the market. #2264 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sat Aug 23, 2008 9:38 pm Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System For those of you who get messages via e-mail, instead of going to this group's web site, here's the URL to the forums about the APF machine: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/apf_consoles_and_computers/ #2265 From: "charliee1151" Date: Sun Aug 24, 2008 6:53 am Subject: Re: My Take on "Adding" RAM to the Arcadia System My humble (and simplified) offering in reference to the Arcadia: 1. The processor can access 32k memory, which means A0 to A14 ($7FFF = 32k). However, A14 is not brought out to the cartridge port. This means that a max of 16K of external memory is possible. 2. The concept of 4K pages is related to the CPU, not the external memory. As far as the external memory is concerned, the 16k range is fully linear. 3. Since, in the cartridge, one address line (A12) is used as ChipSelect rather than as a memory selection function, that address line is now precluded from the memory selection function. Therefore, the useable external addressable memory is 8k. This is the simple answer to a not-so-simple question. What makes it not-so-simple is the shortcuts that the creators took, probably in terms of cost and complexity. Ramifications: 1. If A14 is not available to external memory, then that's it...it's just plain not available. 2. Address lines A12 and A13 are considered "page select" by the CPU, which simply means that the CPU sees addresses not as 0 to 32k, but as 0 to 8k, four times. This means that some creative coding must be used to address areas above 8k, but this,in and of itself, does not affect the external memory hardware. 3. Realize this: ALL MEMORY ADDRESS LINES ARE CHIP SELECTS. By this, I mean that any given memory address line is simply selecting one of two blocks of memory located from 0 to Address-Line-Minus- One. Normally, to get the most benefit, the hardware would decode a series of address lines to obtain the minimum required hardware granularity, but that increases the cost and complexity. And, as we know, that was a big concern at the time. So, the creators took the shortcut of using (and wasting) an entire One-Address-Line's-Worth- Of-Memory, which means we can't. We're limited to the granularity of the address decoding that is inside the console. Of course, all we have to do with the external memory is NOT use A12 as a ChipSelect, but make our own address decoder with our desired granularity, right? Umm,,sorry, no, there's more to it than that. We need to look deeper into the granularity thingy. So, how does that granularity thingy work? The UVI chip in the console uses nine address lines; this means address lines A0 to A8 ($1FF = .5k). It obviously needs to use all of them, so we are forced to allow a minimum granularity of .5k. In other words, A0 to A8 are now forceable defined as the minimum size block of memory. Next, we look at the UVI's ChipSelect. It is connected directly to A12! Wow, the same line that's used for external memory ChipSelect! What does this mean to us? It means that even if our external memory hardware attempted to us A12 for purposes other than ChipSelect, like maybe real memory decoding, we would be in conflict with the consoles' internal hardware. Ouch! Where does that put us now? It means that we MUST break our Wish-It- Really-Was-Linear memory map at the max of A12 address point (between $0FFF and $1000, and any address range that is affected by A12), and that we CANNOT break our Wish-It-Really-Was-Linear memory map into less than A8 ($1FF) blocks. So, between those two limits, we find that the memory block defined by A9,A10 and A11 is untouchable by us. This is the infamous "wasted space" that is not used by the console, but also cannot be used by external memory. So, looks like the rules are: 1. 8K max 2. Can't reclaim "wasted space" Right? Not quite. It is possible to use A13 as a hardware bank select in the external memory hardware...but that's another story. So, there you have it, boys and girls. My best guess as to the mysterious world of Emerson Arcadia 2001. Corrections welcome. #2266 From: "Amigan Software" Date: Thu Sep 11, 2008 7:43 pm Subject: Signetics Instructor 50 emulator released Ami/WinArcadia can now (as of V8.0) emulate the Signetics Instructor 50. You can get it from: http://amigan.classicgaming.gamespy.com/ Enjoy. #2267 From: "James Jacobs" Date: Fri Sep 19, 2008 8:26 pm Subject: TVGC article published in latest issue of Elektor (October 2008) http://www.elektor-electronics.co.uk/magazines/2008/october/elektor-tv-games-computer-(1979).684273.lynkx If you register at the site you get 10 Elektor Credits and can thus download the PDF for free. #2268 From: "ward_shrake" Date: Sun Aug 9, 2009 7:36 am Subject: New (?) press release, as seen in Electronic Games, Sep 1982 I just scanned in a press release or mini-preview of Emerson's Arcadia 2001, from Electronic Games; and uploaded it to the FILES section of the group's web site. Look for EG-mag-sep-1982.zip in the "News_clippings-and-interviews" folder to see those scans. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/News_clippings_and_interviews/ #2272 From: "John" Date: Sun, 07 Mar 2010 10:01:55 -0000 Subject: arcadia 2001 Iphone app i just was wondering if there is anybody having interest in doing an iphone app for the arcadia 2001. An Emulator with a great frontend would be great. I could provide the complete frontend artwork but have no clue about porting an emulator and assign it to a frontend. I was the guy who ran the www.telefever.de site for a short period and have a lot of hi quality images from my own collection. i think there are still way to less good 8bit apps in the appstore. Why not take the arcadia there? if anyone is interested and has the skills let me know. John (germany) #2273 From: James Jacobs Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 04:07:48 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] arcadia 2001 Iphone app Well, I'm the coder of WinArcadia, which is the best emulator of this platform. So I am interested and have the skills, however I don't have an iPhone nor the SDK. If someone wants to send the SDK I will evaluate it and decide whether a port is feasible. #2274 From: Paul Thacker Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2010 10:44:24 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] arcadia 2001 Iphone app I think you'd also want to check into whether such an app would be approved by Apple. You'd probably need to license some Arcadia games. oes anyone even know who owns the rights to these now? #2275 From: James Jacobs Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:58:02 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] arcadia 2001 Iphone app I seem to recall that Apple have a very anti-emulation stance. So it would probably be a waste of time trying to port the emulator to such a locked-down platform. Something more open such as the GP32 would be better. #2276 From: Adam Trionfo Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:14:08 -0800 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] arcadia 2001 Iphone app IPhone: Plus: Popular --- Minus - Has NO CONTROLLER! GP32: Plus: DOES have a controller --- Minus - Nobody has these 2) Old-- 2002! Does anyone on this group have a GP32? #2277 From: "Bill Loguidice" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 10:25:11 -0500 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] arcadia 2001 Iphone app I have a GP2X F-200. These days, most would be better off with a GP2X Wiz in my opinion or something like the Dingoo A320 or equivalent. Personally, I'm still waiting on my Pandora, which should be the ultimate such device (and after more than a year of delays, should finally ship some time next month!). Bill Loguidice, Managing Director Armchair Arcade, Inc. http://www.armchairarcade.com #2278 From: "Carlo Santagostino" Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 16:27:05 +0100 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] arcadia 2001 Iphone app IMHO I think it'll be much more interesting in a near future an ANDROID app... http://developer.android.com/sdk/index.html Just my 2 cent ;) #2279 From: Rikard Ljungkvist Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 21:01:32 +0100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] arcadia 2001 Iphone app Agreed! :) #2280 From: charles Date: Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:03:12 -0800 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] arcadia 2001 Iphone app GP32, and a GP2X waiting for my pandora to be finished and shipped. #2281 Date: Sun, 09 May 2010 13:25:38 -0000 From: "minuous2" Subject: "Olympics" (Interton game) source code Hello all, I read mc71's post over on the MESS forums: "e.g. Pro Sport 60 is listed to be the same as or very similar to the ubiquitious 'Interton 3' pong games cartridge which has also been published as source code in a german book... sort of Philips' proof of concept that you actually can do something useful with that chip set." I'm interested in this book, does anyone know anything about it, for example its name, which would help with searching for it? #2282 Date: Sun, 9 May 2010 13:56:51 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Thacker Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] "Olympics" (Interton game) source code I'm not sure what book he was referring to. It looks like mc71 hasn't posted in awhile, but if you send him a private message on the forum he should get an e-mail notification (assuming he's still using the same address). So if you haven't tried that already, it's worth a shot. Aside from that, there's not really much to go on. #2284 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 2010 05:56:05 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Composite Video ;was: Emerson Arcadia 2001 - group still exist? This message was originally posted at "apf_consoles_and_computers@yahoogroups.com". This person has been trying to get approved for the Arcadia Yahoo Message group. Can someone approve him so that he can post? -- Adam In the meantime, here is his posting: I also have an emerson arcadia 2001 that I need to mod for a customer and found there was a yahoo group for it, but I never got accepted and wondered if anyone was still taking care of it and if anyone here knows anything about it??? I've been trying to do just a composite mod to it as well, but the only info I had was a motherboard scan where Ward circled where to get comp video from. I got a picture, quite sharp, but extremely dark. I was sure it wasn't right... I only have an Alien Invaders to test with, but I found a screen shot online to compare to. Screenshot: http://www.gamefaqs.com/a2k1/922038-alien-invaders/images/screen-1 My background is supposed to be white!?!? Not, its grey. Now I knew something was wrong. I first put an amp I use on the nes-101 on it, it helped some, then I took out all the resistors and just used an npn transistor to boost output, then I had something, but still not perfect. I followed the traces back and tied in at different spots and got higher and higher levels of bright, but my colors are still off. What's supposed to be green is light blue, yellow is now way too light, and red is more brownish/orange. A pic of my tv, ignore the wierd interference pattern, couldn't get the camera to not include it: http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/8677/arcadiaalieninvadersscr.jpg On maybe an unrelated note, at start up things get all garbled, like a cap needs to warm up. If I let it go for a few minutes and reset it then all is good, but I already replaced the 3 electrolytic caps I could find. Could the other, ceramic or ?, caps need replaced as well? I know this isn't the arcadia group, but it seems a few key ppl are in both groups and until i'm a part of that group I wanted to ask anywhere I could for help... Thanks! Jason #2285 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 01:47:54 -0000 From: "Jason" Subject: Re: Composite Video ;was: Emerson Arcadia 2001 - group still exist? Thanks for the help Adam! I was looking at the schematics and noticed it's RGB capable, this may prove extremely useful. If I get an RGB amp made I could get a better read on what color circuit and related components are to blame here... Unless other here have a better idea? #2286 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 20:25:09 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Composite Video ;was: Emerson Arcadia 2001 Sorry, I'm not a moderator here so I don't have the power :-( But there is another EA2001 forum at http://www.classic-consoles-center.at/forum/emersonwhich he might be able to join... #2287 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 07:03:20 -0500 From: "Russ Perry Jr." Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Composite Video ;was: Emerson Arcadia 2001 - group still exist? I approved him days ago. I guess my post saying that didn't go through? #2288 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 13:40:59 -0000 From: "Jason" Subject: Re: Composite Video ;was: Emerson Arcadia 2001 - group still exist? Thanks Russ, the approval email was hidden away in my junk folder... #2289 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 2010 07:08:24 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Arcadia Compatible Systems; was: Composite Video ;was: Emerson I'd never visited there before. Like the Yahoo Message Board, that Arcadia forum doesn't seem too active either. Still, there are some very interesting postings there. I like the one called "All Hanimex & Arcadia related Systems." It has "33 pictured 'arcadia' systems in [the] database. That includes clones and box variations:" http://www.pong-picture-page.de/catalog/index.php?cPath=3D2_20_132 If there is a more convoluted family of compatible console systems, then I don't know what it is... #2290 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 08:40:52 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Reading Arcadia 2001's Controllers How is the Arcadia 2001 joystick designed? When you move diagonal, do you press two buttons at once like an Atari joystick? The reason I ask this is because on another console (NOT related to the Arcadia family!), the APF MP1000's controller seems to only be able to read Up, Down, Left and Right (but no diagonals). Also, no one seems to be able to find a game where the player can move diagonally. The APF's ROM has a joystick subroutine and it is certain that it only allows the programmer to read the four directions. Plus, the joystick seems designed to make diagonal movement difficult (but probably not impossible). The Arcadia's joystick is the one controller that springs to mind that might be designed in a similar fashion. The APF's joystick is read like this: Joystick Column and Row Data Table ---------------------------------- This holds the 16 possible locations of the Joystick: South, East, North and West ? CL ! First Button / EN Numbers 0-9 1047 SENW 3?69 2!58 In order to read the direction (or which button is pushed), the joystick's rows and columns are strobed. For instance, if Row 0 and Column 0, then button "1" is being pressed. If Row 1 and Column 0 then "South" (down) is being pressed. The way that the hardware is setup, I can't think of a way to read two directions at once. I think this is how a calculator-type keypad is read. Does this seem similar to the way that the Arcadia's joystick is read? If so, then how does the Arcadia have diagonal movement? #2291 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 07:58:58 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Reading Arcadia 2001's Controllers From a game's point of view: Each axis is returned as an unsigned 8-bit numbers, with values of $80 being roughly centred. You read an axis (eg. X-axis) on one frame, flip the paddle interpolation bit, then read the other axis (eg. Y-axis) on the next frame. On eg. an MPT-03, the paddles really can be moved to any position; however on an Emerson I think they might be restricted to eg. 3 positions on each axis. There is of course no BIOS ROM in these machines and so reading the joystick is done via direct access to the registers. Reading the buttons is straightforward and any combination of buttons can be sensed. More details in http://amigan.yatho.com/a-coding.txt and there are also some example programs in the Examples Pack at the site. #2292 Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2010 16:22:12 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Reading Arcadia 2001's Controllers James wrote: >From a game's point of view: Each axis is returned as an >unsigned 8-bit numbers, with values of $80 being roughly centred. Either I never knew, or I forgot, that the controllers are analog input. I know that the extra controller input on the Arcadia expects a paddle of some kind (and Ward built one), but I thought that the controller was digital. >More details in http://amigan.yatho.com/a-coding.txt Good link! I browsed it and this is really a TON of information. Your explanation that different controllers from different countries work a bit differently explains why some foreign-release games work better than others on the the Arcadia 2001. Thanks for your help. #2293 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 18:53:53 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Reading Arcadia 2001's Controllers >Either I never knew, or I forgot, that the controllers are analog input. I >know that the extra controller input on the Arcadia expects a paddle of some >kind (and Ward built one), but I thought that the controller was digital. You mean the 3rd and 4th player connections on the Emerson? Could you please tell me what memory addresses these map to, and I can support them on the emulator. Are buttons supported for these players? #2294 Date: Sat, 9 Oct 2010 10:53:01 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Reading Arcadia 2001's Controllers James wrote: >You mean the 3rd and 4th player connections on the Emerson? >Could you please tell me what memory addresses these map to, and I >can support them on the emulator. Are buttons supported for these >players? I don't know that they are a 3rd and 4th connections, so much as they are alternate connections for the 1st and 2nd hand controllers. I recall that Ward said that they don't support buttons. He suspected that they would have been used for paddle-only type games. You know, like Breakout or Circus Atari clones. He talked about building these on this message board many years ago. I'm sure that it must be in the archive someplace. I think that he wasn't impressed... #2295 Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 11:11:30 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: 2650 Software in "Interface Age" Magazine I just picked up "Best of Interface Age, Volume 1: Software in BASIC" via InterLibrary Loan. This book was published in 1979. There is a VERY nice "General Software Index," compiled by Jim Schreier, that covers software published from December 1976 through December 1978. There is only one item that is remotely Arcadia related, but I think that it is worth listed here. I've included the introduction to the Index, followed by the one Arcadia-related item: "Interface Age" General Software Index Compiled by Jim Schreier The software published in Interface Age between December 1976 and December 1978 is rich and varied. Historically, this time period marked the apex of "hobbyist" software and the dawning of "business" programs. Generally, the 1977 pages of Interface Age contained assembled programs for the SC/MP, 6800 and 8080. The 1978 edition published software for a wider variety of chips plus BASIC, FORTRAN and PILOT programs. This variety of subject matter will interest most microcomputer users as well as provide a permanent record of excellent software. This compilation is divided into two sequential sections: Software by High Level Language and Software by CPU chips. The High Level Languages are in alphabetical order by the name of the BASIC. Most users will want to see what programs were published for their specific microcomputer. The term "GENERAL BASIC" means the documentation failed to identify a specific BASIC dialect. Of course, there is no such thing as a "General BASIC," yet. It is possible to translate one BASIC to another given enough time. Likewise, the assembled software is arranged by CPU chips in numeric order. Some of the most important published software programs appear in this section. Foremost is the publication in four parts of the Livermore BASIC Interpreter. Here is the Arcadia-related item: 2650 Interface Design 5 Assembled Listings November 1877 p. 87 2650 CPU articles are very few and far between and I was quite surprised to see this even included in the listing. The desscription of what is included is quite sparse, but it does pique my interest. If anyone happens to have this issue of "Interface Age," or know where to download any (or all?) issues of this magazine, then please let me know. #2296 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 17:31:03 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] 2650 Software in "Interface Age" Magazine >2650 Interface Design >5 Assembled Listings November 1877 p. 87 November 1877?! that's real vintage electronics :-) >If anyone happens to have this issue of "Interface Age," or know where to >download any (or all?) issues of this magazine, then please let me know. I've had no luck finding a scan of this I'm afraid... #2297 Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 15:45:19 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: "Interface Age" Magazine Thread at Atari Age I have started an "Interface Age" thread over at Atari Age. I hope to drum up some interest in getting the "Interface Age" magazines scanned. I have posted information there that I have not made to any Yahoo Group postings, specifically the complete 10-page program index of the first two years of the magazine (I only posted a SMALL part of the index here). You can read the thread here: http://tinyurl.com/4amjl6a (or use the full URL:) http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/179619-interface-age-magazine/page__go=pid__2248062#entry2248062 Please feel free to post OVER THERE if you have any interest or can help with this topic. I'm posting this same message to three different Yahoo Message Boards: 1) APF MP1000 2) Arcadia 2001 3) Bally Alley I've done this because I've discussed the magazine, or the "Best of" book, to some extent in each of these groups and there may be people from each of these groups that could be interested. #2298 Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2011 15:19:09 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Space Vultures - Mother Ship I was browsing through the Easter Eggs over at the Digital Press website when I came across this information for "Space Vultures": "Judging from early catalog screen shots, there is a more complete version of this Phoenix clone (with the final mother ship level). It's possible the level still exists in the game's code, due to its unusual memory size." http://www.digitpress.com/eastereggs/arcadiaspacevultures.htm I am already aware of this earlier version from a screenshot in a catalog. In fact, in 2002 I created a ROM for the system called "Mothership" that displays a static version of the ship based on the picture. I downloaded the Autodisassemblies files in the 1292 Advanced Programmable Video System family from: http://amigan.yatho.com/ Space Vultures is NOT one of the files that has been disassembled. I had NO idea so much work had been done in the disassembly area. Seeing all of this is simply awe inspiring and a HUGE amount of work. Great job! My confusion with the possible Easter Egg is why the ROM is called an "unusual memory size." Is it because it is 6K? I don't have the game, but I imagine that this is because a 2K and a 4K ROM were put on the PCB. Is that right? If the 6K size means ANYTHING to me, it would be that the game is MISSING 2K from a full 8K ROM. Can "Space Vultures" be Automagically disassembled so that a closer look can be taken at it? #2300 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 14:13:51 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Vultures - Mother Ship On Mon, Apr 25, 2011 at 8:19 AM, Adam Trionfo wrote: >Space Vultures is NOT one of the files that has been disassembled. >I had NO idea so much work had been done in the disassembly area. Seeing >all of this is simply awe inspiring and a HUGE amount of work. Great job! Thanks. I've done at least dozens of hours of disassembly of these games, some games more than others. There are two packs that are relevant: the Disassembly Pack has the games which have been human-disassembled. Generally, the starting point for these is an autodisassembly made by the latest version of Annotate at the time. The Autodisassemby Pack has autodisassembled games for all the games which don't have a human-made disassembly. In the case of Space Vultures there is a human-made disassembly in the Disassembly Pack. It's not very detailed, and was made before the Annotate tool existed. So in this case it is advantageous to have the autodisassembly available too. >My confusion with the possible Easter Egg is why the ROM is called an >"unusual memory size." Is it because it is 6K? I don't have the game, but >I imagine that this is because a 2K and a 4K ROM were put on the PCB. Is >that right? If the 6K size means ANYTHING to me, it would be that the game >is MISSING 2K from a full 8K ROM. 6K is fairly unusual, it's the only game apart from American Football that is this size. It might be interesting to look at what chips are on the cart. I suspect probably two chips: a 4K and a 2K ROM, but that's just a guess. I don't actually have one here to look inside it :-( . > Can "Space Vultures" be Automagically disassembled so that a closer look > can be taken at it? Yes, the Annotate tool is available at the site to enable people to make their own autodisassemblies. I have sent you the Space Vultures autodisassembly in a separate email. I suggest also grabbing the Disassembly Pack (http://amigan.yatho.com/disasm.rar) from the site, which as mentioned has a Space Vultures disassembly. #2301 Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2011 07:20:14 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Vultures - Mother Ship James Jacobs wrote: >There are two packs that are relevant: the Disassembly Pack [and the Autodisassemby Pack] Okay. I didn't realize that. >I have sent you the Space Vultures autodisassembly in a separate email. Thanks! I took a brief look at that. All of the autodisassemblies that I've looked at are quite detailed with the comments. I'm quite intrigued by that. When I disassemble a binary for other systems I usually have to hold the disassemblers hand and do my best to disassemble in small chunks, otherwise I run into data and then, BAM!, everything goes haywire. I don't have an Arcadia system at the moment, but I should really check into how emulation has grown-up over the last several years. James, it looks oks as though you have taken HUGE steps with it. I was really surprised to see an Arcadia emulator for the Gameboy Advance. Cool! #2302 Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2011 03:45:34 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Vultures - Mother Ship >Thanks! I took a brief look at that. All of the autodisassemblies that >I've looked at are quite detailed with the comments. I'm quite intrigued by >that. When I disassemble a binary for other systems I usually have to hold >the disassemblers hand and do my best to disassemble in small chunks, >otherwise I run into data and then, BAM!, everything goes haywire. The program that makes them is called Annotate, it operates on the output of the DASMx disassembler. It's not a standalone disassembler, it's really a program that performs text manipulation. So it's dependant on the quality of DASMx's code threading; it's best to ensure DASMx has marked all the code as such before running Annotate. >I don't have an Arcadia system at the moment, but I should really check >into how emulation has grown-up over the last several years. James, it >looks as though you have taken HUGE steps with it. I was really surprised >to see an Arcadia emulator for the Gameboy Advance. Cool! I think WinArcadia has become very impressive now too if I do say so myself :-) #2303 Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 16:12:52 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Signetics Instructor 50 Ad from Byte Magazine 1979 Attached is an ad for the Signetics Instructor 50 computer. This ad is from Byte magazine, March 1979 on page 45. The file is called: Byte (Ad for Instructor 50)(March 1979, Page 45)_200dpi.jpg In case you're wondering what this has to do with the Arcadia 2001, both of these systems have the same CPU (the Signetics 2650). At one point James was going to add support for the Instructor 50 to his emulator - but I'm not sure if that ever happened. I have the original scan of this 200 dpi jpg, which is a 300 dpi TIFF. If you have an interest in this file, then let me know. Here is a link that tells a bit about the Instructor 50: http://www.old-computers.com/museum/computer.asp?c=3D1029&st=3D1 Enjoy! #2304 Date: Sun, 1 May 2011 16:23:49 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Signetics Instructor 50 Ad from Byte Magazine 1979 I need to add that the original scan is a 300 dpi TIFF compressed with internal LZX compression that is 26MB. It's a VERY large file. I try to keep the original large so that I can make the jpgs or GIFs any size that I want. #2305 Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 13:32:17 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Signetics Instructor 50 Ad from Byte Magazine 1979 On Mon, May 2, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Adam Trionfo wrote: >At one point James was going to add support for the Instructor 50 to his >emulator-- but I'm not sure if that ever happened. Yes, the Signetics Instructor 50 is fully supported by WinArcadia. Unfortunately, there is a severe lack of dumped programs and documentation for this system, which means there is very little to run on it yet. In particular, the cassettes (pictured) and manuals originally provided with the system have not been dumped/scanned (except for a partial scan of a Dutch manual) and would be immensely useful. #2307 Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 14:04:14 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Signetics Instructor 50 Ad from Byte Magazine 1979 If you look at the file signetics-instructor-50-m.gif in http://amigan.yatho.com/s-docs.rar you can see it is basically the same ad but with pictures instead of the order forms. #2309 Date: Mon, 2 May 2011 09:59:30 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Signetics Instructor 50 Ad from Byte Magazine 1979 James Jacobs wrote: >In particular, the cassettes (pictured) and manuals >originally provided with the [Signetics Instructor 50] system have not been >dumped/scanned (except for a partial scan of a Dutch manual) and would be >immensely useful. This isn't Dutch, so maybe this will be a useful manual for the system: http://issuu.com/old-computers/docs/signetics_instrucor_50_manual #2310 Date: Wed, 4 May 2011 16:35:12 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Signetics Instructor 50 Ad from Byte Magazine 1979 On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 2:59 AM, Adam Trionfo wrote: >This isn't Dutch, so maybe this will be a useful manual for the system: >http://issuu.com/old-computers/docs/signetics_instructor_50_manual I typed in the partial Dutch scan and ran it through Google Translate, that document is the result. #2311 Date: Fri, 6 May 2011 16:16:00 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Interton VC-4000 vs. TV Games Computer I was reading some Easter Eggs for games for the Interton VC-4000 over at Digitpress. I recall that this system is supposed to be very similar to the TV Games computer talked about in the book "The TV Games Computer, An Exciting Introduction to Microprocessors." This book can be looked at here: http://amigan.yatho.com/tvgc.rar At one time, ten years ago (perhaps?), it was thought that Arcadia 2001 might be backward compatible with the Interton VC-4000. Of course, that was proved to be incorrect. How similar are the Interton VC-4000 and the TV Games Computer? #2312 Date: Sat, 7 May 2011 17:45:41 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Interton VC-4000 vs. TV Games Computer Roughly speaking, TVGC+cartridge slots = Interton+Hobby Module. The cartridge slot expansion is detailed in the book you mentioned. Most TVGC games use more RAM than the 37 bytes available on a standard Interton. More info is in the Coding Guides at the site. Ami/WinArcadia can do emulation of the TVGC (and of the Interton). As always, when I say "Interton", I mean that entire console family (Radofin, etc.), not specifically just the Interton VC 4000. #2313 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 14:14:17 -0000 From: "lucifershalo" Subject: which eproms are used by the Arcadia? Hello, which eproms were used for the Arcadia games? is the rom of W Shake multicart available? thanks #2314 Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2011 07:26:04 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: "Emerson Arcadia 2001: A Gamer's Evaluation" Article Last night I noticed that the November 1982 issue of "Electronic Games" has an article called "Emerson Arcadia 2001: A Gamer's Evaluation" by By Henry Cohen. The article begins on page 100. I have not even had a chance to glance at the article, but I do plan to do that eventually - when I do, I'll upload the article (picture and text in pdf formmat) to the file area of the discussion group). I'd provide a link to the magazine, but I downloaded it a few weeks ago and I can't remember where I found it. I even changed the filenames (which made no sense to me), so providing the filename wouldn't help you find the issue. #2315 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 05:19:24 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] "Emerson Arcadia 2001: A Gamer's Evaluation" Article Probably you found it here: http://www.bombjack.org/commodore/magazines/electronic-games/electronic-games.htm There are 3 mentions of the Arcadia in that magazine. 2 of them, including the one you mentioned, are already online at http://amigan.yatho.com , but I haven't uploaded the 3rd one at this point. (It is issue #21, page 82.) #2316 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 07:10:15 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] "Emerson Arcadia 2001: A Gamer's Evaluation" Article Maybe. I found SOME of my issues there and some at another obscure location that has higher quality scans than the ones at BombJack. This includes issues already at BombJack. >I haven't uploaded the 3rd one at this point. (It is >issue #21, page 82.) Okay, I have taken care of that for you. A text and pdf version are in the file area of the Yahoogroups, here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Articles/ The article is called "Whatever Happened to...Channel F, Ultravision and the Arcadia 2001?" and is in "Electronic Games", November 1983, on page 82. Please add this to your awesome website! Shortly I'll post part of the article in text format. #2317 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 07:12:31 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Whatever Happened to [...] the Arcadia 2001? Whatever Happened to...Channel F, Ultravision and the Arcadia 2001? Electronic Games November 1983, Page 82 [Extraction from Complete Article] Whither the Arcadia 2001? So what about the Emerson's powerful little system with the terrible joysticks but the memory of a personal computer? Well, after the price dropped lower than a spider's navel, the Emerson Arcadia 2001 moved into the unique position of becoming a promotionally priced item. Whether used as a loss leader or given away as a bonus with the purchase of a toaster, the Emerson is still available in department stores across the U.S. It's doubtful that any further software will be added to the catalog, but it may be a system worth looking at for the price. The PDF version of this article is available here: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/arcadia2001consoles/files/Articles/ Enjoy! #2318 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:12:10 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Group Messages Ever Decreasing I was just noticing after these "flurry" of Arcadia posts that this Arcadia discussion group never really sees any activity anymore. Out of the 2317 total messages left in this group since it began on April 4, 2002 nearly all of them were posted in the first few years. So far this year there have been only 23 messages. In the last two years the numbers were getting even smaller: 2010 - 23 Messages for the complete year 2009 - 9 Messages for the complete year (yes FOUR messages!) In 2008 there was a fair number of messages at 194. Ward, who "retired" in about 2003, has left the most number of postings at 335. I follow him up closely with 260 postings (which is strange, since I feel like I don't post here much). After that, the numbers drop off quickly. I know that the Arcadia 2001 surely isn't a first tier system, or even a second tier system, but the activity seems to be elsewhere. Is the activity of this system just GONE, or has it moved elsewhere to another discussion group? #2319 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:22:08 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] which eproms are used by the Arcadia? lucifershalo wrote: >which eproms were used for the Arcadia games? There is a master list that explains which ROMs are available for which systems. I don't collect for these other systems. Heck, I don't even have an Arcadia 2001 anymore - though I DO want one again (so if you have an inexpensive spare, then let me know). I'm not sure where this list that Ward wrote is located. Does anyone have a direct link to it? >is the rom of W Shake multicart available? No, the Ward Shrake multicart is no longer available for the Arcadia 2001. He also no longer produces that one for the Bally/Astrocade. In the Bally/Astrocade other multicarts have come and gone (with one called the UltiMulti still currently available), but no one else has ever made another Arcadia 2001 multicart. #2320 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 08:27:36 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: 1292 Advanced Programmable Video Systems The "1292 Advanced Programmable Video Systems" is the common name for the systems that are, basically, the predecessors to the "Arcadia 2001" systems (ie. the Interton VC 4000). This family would include such consoles as the: 1) Hanimex MPT-03 2) Leisure-Vision 3) Tele-Fever Is there a common name for the dozens of consoles that are in the same family as the Arcadia 2001? #2321 Date: Thu, 13 Oct 2011 10:30:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ Perry, Jr." Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] 1292 Advanced Programmable Video Systems I don't have any "notes" in front of me, but I don't think this is correct... The Leisure-Vision and Tele-Fever at least are the SAME as the Arcadia internally, and I THINK the MPT-03 is as well. I refer to this generation as the MPT-03, and the previous as the MPT-02. However, it's not entirely clear to me whether there's just two increments, or possibly a third in there too -- I can't recall if systems like the Database/Rowtron/Acetronic were all Arcadia-compatible or not, and the MPT-02 were all Channel F or similar systems compatible, or if the Acetronic etc were sort of a middle tier. #2322 Date: Sat, 15 Oct 2011 15:14:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Kevin Bunch Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] which eproms are used by the Arcadia? That's kind of a shame that there's no other multicart option. I'm kind of late to the Arcadia party, but it seems like a really cool system with a lot of games I'd like to try out from other regions. #2323 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:50:37 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Replies to various messages >In 2008 there was a fair number of messages at 194. Ward, who "retired" >in about 2003, has left the most number of postings at 335. I follow him >up closely with 260 postings (which is strange, since I feel like I don't >post here much). After that, the numbers drop off quickly. Well, in the last 5 years I have worked nearly full-time on Signetics-based systems, eg. releasing 280 successive versions of the Ami/WinArcadia emulator, of which I am very proud :-) . If I made an announcement here for everything I release, there would be a lot of messages; instead I suggest people keep an eye on my page at http://amigan.yatho.com Also I announce each release of the emulators at http://www.1emulation.com >I know that the Arcadia 2001 surely isn't a first tier system, or even a >second tier system, but the activity seems to be elsewhere. Is the >activity of this system just GONE, or has it moved elsewhere to another >discussion group? There has been some discussion of the system at the Classics Consoles Center (http://www.classic-consoles-center.at/forum) but none for a few months. >That's kind of a shame that there's no other multicart option. I'm kind of >late to the Arcadia party, but it seems like a really cool system with a >lot of games I'd like to try out from other regions. Of course, you can play them on the emulator :-) >There is a master list that explains which ROMs are available for which >systems. I don't collect for these other systems. Heck, I don't even have >an Arcadia 2001 anymore - though I DO want one again (so if you have an >inexpensive spare, then let me know). I'm not sure where this list that >Ward wrote is located. Does anyone have a direct link to it? http://amigan.1emu.net/digarch/cart-fam.txt >I refer to this generation as the MPT-03, and the previous as the >MPT-02. However, it's not entirely clear to me whether there's >just two increments, or possibly a third in there too -- I can't >recall if systems like the Database/Rowtron/Acetronic were all >Arcadia-compatible or not, and the MPT-02 were all Channel F or >similar systems compatible, or if the Acetronic etc were sort of >a middle tier. There are 2 groups: the Signetics 2636 (PVI) based systems (Interton/Acetronic/Voltmace/Rowtron/Acetronic/Elektor, etc.) and the Signetics 2637 (UVI) based systems (Emerson/MPT-03/Palladium/Leisure-Vision, etc.), differentiated by the graphics/sound chip. The Fairchild Channel F is completely incompatible with these and has AFAIK no Signetics parts in it. #2324 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 07:53:20 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Replies to various messages James wrote: >Well, in the last 5 years I have worked nearly full-time on >Signetics-based systems, eg. releasing 280 successive versions of the >Ami/WinArcadia emulator, of which I am very proud :-) . I've been out of the Amiga community for so long, but I'm pretty sure that your Signetics-based emulator is one of the top Amiga downloads. I tried your emulator (for Windows) so that I could try the New Zealand Arcade games - as I don't think that these are/were supported in MAME. I had no idea that it was updated so frequently. What sort of homebrew/programmer friendly capabilities are built into WinArcadia? "'Arcadia 2001 console group' Game cart list. 348 game carts currently listed" #2325 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 08:03:15 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Replies to various messages Oops, I accidentally sent that posting too soon... I meant to add that the "Arcadia 2001 console group" Game cart list contained 348 game carts as of its last update by Ward in April of 2002. That's not to say there are 348 DIFFERENT games - just that there are that many different CARTS spread across the many systems that the Arcadia 2001 is compatible (in varying degrees) with. Has anyone updated this list more - or are there any obvious= omissions? As for the names of the Signetics 2636 and 2637 systems. My original question was never answered. Is there an overall, generally-used name for these two compatible systems that have SO MANY different consoles based around them? Also, has anyone figured out the history of how the different companies are linked? The last thing that I recall is that the systems MAY HAVE BEEN created based on information freely available from Phillips. Has anyone confirmed or looked into this any more? #2326 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 19:39:59 +0200 From: "Jens Brinkmann" Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Replies to various messages The last update of the Arcadia-2001-list was done in fall 2007. You can find that version over at digital press. The list is based on Wards work for the DP guides and was updated by me. I'm still monitoring every eBay auction that is found by the automated searches. I do have data from this for the years 2004 to 2011. I hope to do a major update later this year. There are two names for the systems, which are "Arcadia-2001" for the 2637-systems and "Interton" for the 2636-systems. I don't think that one name for these two groups makes sense. All the research for the origins of the "Interton" consoles lead to Philips, respectively Signetics & Mullard, while there seems to be no information about the development of the "Arcadia 2001" consoles. Anyway, it may have been the same scenario as the "Interton" consoles: Signetics had two in house "game laboratories" for sure in 1977, but maybe earlier. One was developing single chip games, similar to the GI AY-3-85xx ones; the other one was working on microprocessor based games. The plan was not to bring out own systems, but to license the technique. [BTW I highly doubt that the release date 1976 for the Radofin 1292 consoles which can be found everywhere in the net is correct. I think in 1976 no company outside the USA was able to develop & build a micro processor based video game. Even Philips had to buy some companies (Magnavox, Signetics, etc.) to get the know how.] To make it short, yes Signetics/Philips gave away the information (free or not) about the "Interton" systems and even developed games for it to sell the chips. #2327 Date: Mon, 17 Oct 2011 15:10:42 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Replies to various messages Jens Brinkmann wrote: >The last update of the Arcadia-2001-list was done= >in fall 2007. You can find that version over at digital press. I took a look over there, but I could not find it. Could you please provide a link? >I do have data from this for the years 2004 to 2011. I hope to do >a major update later this year. I've noticed myself that sometimes collecting the data isn't too bad, but putting it into some semblance of SOMETHING that makes sense is where all the time and energy goes. >There are two names for the systems, which are "Arcadia-2001" for the 2637-systems >and "Interton" for the 2636-systems. I don't think that one name for these I can understand going with Interton for the 2636 systems, but it seems weird that the 2637 goes by the Arcadia-2001. Was the Arcadia console the best selling of all the consoles? If so, that's BAD, as it sold poorly. Thanks for the info. Since you seem to be involved with Digital Press, are you the one working on the Arcadia 2001 section of the new edition of the Collector's Guide? #2328 Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2011 10:13:49 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Replies to various messages >I can understand going with Interton for the 2636 systems, but it seems >weird that the 2637 goes by the Arcadia-2001. Was the Arcadia console >the best selling of all the consoles? If so, that's BAD, as it sold poorly. My guess would be that it is due to it being the system that was available to Americans, who dominated the industry at the time. I suspect some of the other compatible systems were more successful in other markets. But I don't have any hard evidence for this. >What sort of homebrew/programmer friendly capabilities are built into WinArcadia? The main features useful for homebrewing are the debugger, real-time monitor, 2650 opcode quick reference, sprite editor, and support for the SpriteMakerEA and TextMakerEA utilities. If you can think of some useful feature that is missing, please let me know, as I'm out of ideas. #2329 Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:48:05 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Membership Request for New Arcadia Multicart Creator I want to get the word out to a moderator(s) of this Arcadia Discussion board that a new membership has been requested by the creator of a new Arcadia 2001 multicart ("5-11under" from the AtariAge forums). I know that this can sometimes take awhile because this forum isn't always frequented as much as it used to once be.=A0 When he is accepted, he'll make an announcement about the cart on the this Arcadia discussion board. Here's to hearing from him soon! #2330 Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:02:02 +1300 From: Greg Cook Subject: Re: Membership Request for New Arcadia Multicart Creator Just read the thread, and id be keen :) missed out on wards cart many moons ago, kicking myself about that :) #2331 Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 13:48:16 -0800 (PST) From: "Russ Perry, Jr." Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Membership Request for New Arcadia Multicart Creator On Thu, 11/17/11, Adam Trionfo wrote: >I want to get the word out to a moderator(s) of this >Arcadia Discussion board that a new membership has been >requested by the creator of a new Arcadia 2001 multicart >("5-11under" from the AtariAge forums). Ugh. I used to get an email when there was a membership pending, but Yahoo isn't sending them anymore apparently. Anyway, I've just approved him, so hopefully we'll see a post soon. My apologies for the delay; I rarely browse the web site, where I might have seen an indication there was someone waiting. #2332 Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 23:40:33 -0000 From: "Harvey" Subject: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 Hi all, I'll start with some introduction... This is my first post here, but I've been interested in classic video games for at least 15 years now, and really most of my life, probably like many of you. As a kid, I had Pong, friends with Atari 2600s, and a VideoBrain console, followed by computers such as my brother's ZX80 and later ZX81, and then my own Atari 800XL. Over the past few years I've been mostly involved with the ColecoVision scene at AtariAge (username 5-11under), programming and publishing a game, including getting my own PCBs made. Since then, I've supplied quite a few PCBs to other publishers, and worked on a Lord of the Dungeon re-issue (includes non-volatile RAM), a YPbPr/component video mod kit, and an arcade controller enabler PCB. Someone at cgcc.ca (classic game collectors of Canada) was offering a Leisure-Vision for just the shipping cost, so I jumped at it, hoping just to give it a try and maybe make a few bucks by doing a composite mod. I also found a handful of cheap carts to get me started. So, I've got a Leisure-Vision, but... It would be nice to be able to play all of the library on the original hardware. To do that, I designed a multicart. I've made a prototype, designed a PCB, and ordered all the parts (for a certain amount, anyway). I still need to design the labels. I'll be able to supply short and long carts, although I don't have too many short ones at this point. Additional details can be found here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/189779-arcadia-2001-multicart-2011-version-any-interest/page__fromsearch__1 The regular price will be no more than $110 plus shipping. Those who express interest before a certain date (I'll give some warning beforehand) will get a cheaper price. If interested, you can post here if that is appropriate (or at AA), or send a quick message to hdk2000hdk at a place called yahoo dot com. Sorry that my first post is a sales pitch, but what can you do. "ballyalley" at AA suggested I post here, so blame or thank him. ;) If you're not interested, then feel free to ignore this. I haven't read all the old posts yet, but I'm looking forward to getting a start on that over the next little while, to see what else has been going on. Thanks, 5-11under #2333 Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2011 20:51:50 -0800 (PST) From: Kevin Bunch Subject: Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 I for one would be very interested in picking up a multicart. Will it have all the various roms and variations found on the old Ward Shrake one? #2334 Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 16:18:11 -0000 From: "Harvey" Subject: Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 Yes, it will have as many variations as I can find. Most of these are from the Amigan website, with I think a couple from theoldcomputer.com. I need to revisit the ROM list again. #2335 Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 08:25:06 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 If it would be helpful, I can post a copy of everything on my multicart. Mine is the same as Ward's (version 1.36 - I THINK). Also, I could probably ask Ward to send you all the ROMs that he included - as I'm sure that he kept everything like that. #2336 Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2011 13:27:26 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Thacker Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 Remember, though, that one of the old Bandai dumps was bad, and has been redumped (I would need to search old e-mails to remember which one), and there have been at least a couple of new dumps. #2337 Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 18:34:49 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 On Sat, Nov 19, 2011 at 8:27 AM, Paul Thacker wrote: >Remember, though, that one of the old Bandai dumps was bad, and has been >redumped (I would need to search old e-mails to remember which one), and >there have been at least a couple of new dumps. The redumped game is Mobile Soldier Gundam. The CRC32 of the good dump is $1241F128. The original dump and/or the half-fixed one may be floating around on the net somewhere. The one in the Games Pack at the Arcadia Central site is the good dump. You can use the WinArcadia emulator to confirm; it will warn you when it loads a known bad dump. Also the Gaming Guide (http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/index.html) and the WinArcadia source code has lists of CRC32s. WinArcadia recognizes almost 1000 files, including all known Arcadia dumps and homebrews, so it should be able to tell you (via the "Help|Game information..." command) details about any dump you load. The "new dump" would presumably be Super Bug (dumped only a couple of years ago), or has something else been dumped since then? AFAIK, there is only one game that is both (a) confirmed to exist and (b) not yet dumped. This game is "3D Attack" which came out on (at least) the Advision. It appears to be a clone of Zaxxon. Needless to say, I would be very interested in getting it dumped. #2338 Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 15:29:49 -0800 (PST) To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com From: Paul Thacker Yes, the new (as in dumped after the multi-cart was made) dump I was referring to is Super Bug. The first dump came from a cart that I bought, but I was surprised to see looking at the MESS software list that there is now an alternate dump of this as well. Does anyone know about that one? #2339 Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 11:10:59 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 You mean "Super Bug 2"? I created that one myself not long after Super Bug was dumped. It is a modified version of Super Bug (with different levels and music). #2340 Date: Sat, 19 Nov 2011 17:07:08 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Thacker Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 Well, I'm not sure. The software list doesn't document it that way. Here's what it says: - Super Bug (alt) 198? UA Ltd. - - - Super Bug 198? UA Ltd. - - #2341 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 09:24:52 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 Where did you get that list from, is it from MESS? Anyway, it's wrong. #2342 Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:08:22 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Thacker Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 Yes, MESS has built-in lists of supported software now. Here's a link to the full thing: http://git.redump.net/mess/tree/hash/arcadia.xml What exactly is the problem with the Super Bug entry? If you have any corrections, you can e-mail them to Miodrag Milanovic: http://www.mess.org/contacts.php Or give me details and I can pass them on. #2343 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 15:20:12 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 The name, filename, year and publisher are all incorrect. Correct details can be found at http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/ or in the WinArcadia source code. #2344 Date: Sun, 20 Nov 2011 20:44:25 -0800 (PST) From: Paul Thacker Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 I'm not sure what's incorrect. The MESS software list says: Super Bug 198? UA Ltd. Your page says: Super Bug UA Ltd. 1983? 4K SUPERBUG.BIN SuperBug.bin The "software name" tag just refers to the shortcut to launch the software in MESS. The description matches your name. The publishers match. The capitalization on the file names are different, but I think that's just a MESS convention. Your year's more specific, but they're not inconsistent. Is the dump they're calling alternate (crc="15436f39") the modified one with new levels? #2345 Date: Mon, 21 Nov 2011 22:04:36 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: New multicart for Arcadia 2001 >I'm not sure what's incorrect Super Bug information is basically correct, I was referring to the information for Super Bug 2. Sorry, I should have made this clearer. >Is the dump they're calling alternate (crc="15436f39") the modified one with new levels? Yes. #2346 Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:22:18 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: New Emerson Arcadia Website I was flipping through a back issue of "Interface Age" yesterday and I came across an article on the Emerson Arcadia 2001's Signetics 2650 CPU. An article on this CPU is rather rare, so I decided to scan it in this morning. The article was too big to upload to the discussion group file area, so I created a small Emerson Arcadia 2001 website to hold this file and other files like it. The simple website can be viewed here: http://www.orphanedgames.com/arcadia/ I don't plan to update this website often, but it seems like a good idea to have a place to upload large Arcadia-related files. Currently there are only two files there: a book and a magazine article. When I add new files, I'll let you know. #2347 Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2011 10:25:40 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: "Interface Design with Signetics 2650" Article I have added an article called "Interface Design with Signetics 2650" by Alex Goldberger to the Arcadia 2001 website that I created this morning. This article was scanned from "Interface Age," Vol. 2, No. 12 (November 1977): 84-100. The first two paragraphs of the article give an idea of what the heavily hardware technical oriented article is about: Interfacing a microprocessor to peripheral devices is an important part of a total microcomputer system design. The characteristics of the interface depend to a large extent on total system requirements and other factors such as CPU loading and data speed. The use of interrupts and/or DMA structures also have an impact on the system input/output structure. The design of an I/O interface is not limited to hardware, and hardware/software trade-offs must be considered. This article examines the use of the 2650's set of I/O instructions and the interface between the 2650 and I/O ports. Interrupt and DMA-controlled I/O are not discussed. A number of application examples for both serial and parallel I/O are given. Several types of input, output, and bidirectional interface devices are also examined. The article includes some source code too, which is another rarity. Have fun! #2348 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 05:33:50 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] "Interface Design with Signetics 2650" Article That's an interesting article. Although the consoles use memory-mapped I/O instead, the PIPBUG-based machines do work in this manner for the teletype-compatible keyboard and display, as well as for cassette/papertape storage. #2349 Date: Sun, 11 Dec 2011 16:13:59 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] "Interface Design with Signetics 2650" James wrote: >the PIPBUG-based machines do work in this manner for the teletype-compatible keyboard and display I hadn't heard of these kinds of computers, so I looked them up. I wasn't surprised to see that they are included in the emulator. Please, feel free to add this article to your website. It really belongs there among all the other cool Signetics-related material! #2350 Date: Mon, 12 Dec 2011 14:36:09 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] "Interface Design with Signetics 2650" Article On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 11:13 AM, Adam Trionfo wrote: >Please, feel free to add this article to your website. It really belongs there among all the other cool Signetics-related material! OK, done. Many thanks. #2351 Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2012 23:03:10 -0000 From: "Paul Thacker" Subject: VC 4000 Dumping Status I was thinking about searching eBay for undumped/badly dumped VC 4000 cartridges. Is the list at http://amigan.1emu.net/igg up to date? I get this: Bad/suspect-- Air/Sea Attack (suspect dump) Challenge! (bad dump) Golf (bad dump) Horse Racing (suspect dump) Super Knockout (bad dump) Basic Maths (bad dump) Prizefight (bad dump) Spider's Web (bad dump) Super Maze (bad dump) Undumped-- Box Clever Voltmace #18 (unconfirmed) Cowboy Rowtron #24 (unconfirmed) (different to Shoot Out) Crazy Crab Voltmace #29 (confirmed) Galactic Space Battles Rowtron #15 (unconfirmed) (different to Space War) Hobby Module Acetronic #16 (confirmed) Leap Frog Voltmace #25 (confirmed) Monster Munchers Rowtron #26 (unconfirmed) Munch & Crunch Voltmace #24 (confirmed) Sea Wolf Acetronic #34 (unconfirmed) Space Battle Voltmace #15 (unconfirmed) (perhaps same as Galactic Space Battles or Space War?) Any particular reason there are so many bad dumps? Is anyone set up to dump these? I see that at least the Interton version of Super Maze is available. #2352 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 17:55:03 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] VC 4000 Dumping Status Yes, I still update that page when necessary to keep it current. Air/Sea Attack (suspect dump) - probably the same as Air/Sea Battle, of which there is a good dump available. Challenge! (bad dump) - probably the same as 4 in a Row, of which there is a good dump available. Golf (bad dump) - there is a good dump available of this. Horse Racing (suspect dump) - probably the same as Hippodrome, of which there is a good dump available. Basic Maths (bad dump) - probably the same as Mathematics 1, of which there is a good dump available. Prizefight (bad dump) - probably the same as Boxing, of which there is a good dump available. Spider's Web (bad dump) - probably the same as Monster-Man, of which there is a good dump available. Super Maze (bad dump) - probably the same as Labyrinth, of which there is a good dump available. Super Knockout (bad dump) - no good dump of this is available. Technical notes regarding why these are considered as bad: CHALLEN-.BIN has FIXED BITS (xxxxxxxx0xxxxxxx) and looks BAD differences only in bits $C0 differences only at addresses xxx xxxx 0001 GOLF- .BIN is SHORT (and differs in the last byte with PeT's 4K dump) KNOCKOU-.BIN has BADADDR (--xxxxxxxxx) MATH1- .BIN has BADADDR (--xxxxxxxxx) PRIZEFI-.BIN is SHORT SPIDERS-.BIN is SHORT SUPERMA-.BIN has FIXED BITS (xxxxx1xx) As for why so many bad dumps, all the suspect/bad dumps were done by Gavin Turner. Only the first 2K of each was dumped, meaning that the 4K games have been underdumped. Also he seems to have some problem with his dumping equipment causing stuck bits. But the only one of his dumps that does not have a "good" equivalent is Super Knockout. None of these games have been dumped at all: Box Clever Voltmace #18 (unconfirmed) Cowboy Rowtron #24 (unconfirmed) (different to Shoot Out) Crazy Crab Voltmace #29 (confirmed) Galactic Space Battles Rowtron #15 (unconfirmed) (different to Space War) Hobby Module Acetronic #16 (confirmed) Leap Frog Voltmace #25 (confirmed) Monster Munchers Rowtron #26 (unconfirmed) Munch & Crunch Voltmace #24 (confirmed) Sea Wolf Acetronic #34 (unconfirmed) Space Battle Voltmace #15 (unconfirmed) (perhaps same as Galactic Space Battles or Space War?) I hope this clears up the situation. If you need more information, I'm happy to help. #2353 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 09:26:10 -0000 From: "Ian Gledhill" Subject: Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status I've got Rowtron Cowboy and Galactic Space Battles right here.... How do you dump them? If it's just a matter of desoldering an EPROM and reading it I can do that... #2354 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 22:44:10 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status Yes, that should be all that is necessary. #2355 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 12:48:06 -0000 From: "Ian Gledhill" Subject: Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status OK, where do I send them if I manage it? #2356 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 13:08:04 -0000 From: "Ian Gledhill" Subject: Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status Actually, it may not be that simple. The mask ROM is a SBB2616P Signetics 16Kbx8 ROM. I'm probably going to need to hack up an adaptor somehow. My Wellon doesn't do mask ROMs, but I think my Quickbyte II or Quickbyte V may do. In fact the Quickbyte II does 2332... that's very similar. First question, therefore - what should the CS1, CS2 and CS3 lines be held as in order to pretend to be a 2332? #2357 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2012 06:33:06 -0700 (PDT) From: Paul Thacker Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] VC 4000 Dumping Status Yes, that was very helpful. I'm glad you keep such close track of these games. And good news that a couple may already be available. Are the international versions ever different? The specific games I found right away are Acetronic Air/Sea Attack and Interton Intelligenz I (version of Super Maze), but it sounds like these may not be needed. The carts themselves aren't too expensive, but I'd need to pay for shipping from Europe to the USA. #2358 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 15:42:13 -0000 From: "Ian Gledhill" Subject: Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status OK, uploaded to the temporary files section are two archives, of Galactic Space Battles and Cowboy. I've included Hi-Res scans of the instruction sheet too. They're a fair size so someone may want to delete them after a week or so (assuming they're made available somewhere else, anyway!). #2359 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 03:28:56 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status OK, I have downloaded these and the results are: Galactic Space Battles is byte-for-byte identical to Space War (Fountain) and Outer Space Combat (Interton). So the information I had about them being different was wrong :-( However, Cowboy is indeed different to Shoot Out. Both appear to be good dumps, and run OK (as far as I can tell) on the emulator. I have now updated the Gaming Guide appropriately. I will upload the dumps and scans to the site (http://amigan.yatho.com) tomorrow. Many thanks to Ian for dumping/scanning these; it brings us a step closer to having this platform preserved. #2360 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2012 23:12:41 -0000 From: "kiwigame" Subject: Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status --- In arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com, James Jacobs wrote: >As for why so many bad dumps, all the suspect/bad dumps were done by >Gavin Turner. Only the first 2K of each was dumped, meaning that the >4K games have been underdumped. Also he seems to have some problem >with his dumping equipment causing stuck bits. But the only one of his >dumps that does not have a "good" equivalent is Super Knockout. Unfortunately I loaned Gavin my own copies of many of the Fountain/Acetronic carts for him to dump and he never returned them :( I makes it even worse to know he didn't even complete the task properly... >None of these games have been dumped at all: >Hobby Module Acetronic #16 (confirmed) >Leap Frog Voltmace #25 (confirmed) >Munch & Crunch Voltmace #24 (confirmed) I own copies of all these three and despite my previous experiences I would be happy to send these out for dumping... James? I've always thought the Hobby Module ROM would be the same as the Elektor TV one but I guess it needs to be checked.. #2361 Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2012 02:03:43 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status I don't have the hardware, hopefully someone else on this list (maybe Ian?) can dump them for you though. #2362 Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2012 17:24:17 +0100 From: "Ian Gledhill" Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: VC 4000 Dumping Status I'm more than happy to dump any carts that come my way as long as I can get into them to get the EPROM out. I'm quite a distance from NZ, though, here in the UK. :) #2363 Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 18:50:38 +0200 From: "Carlo Santagostino" Subject: Hanimex HGM 2650 review found on italian videgames magazine January 1983 Hello, I've recently discovered a review of the HANIMEX HMG 2650 on the first Italian videogames magazine named “VIDEOGIOCHI”. This is from n.1 of JAN 1983, page 43: http://www.museo-computer.it/SalaLettura/VideoGiochi/1/paginatore-int?¤t_page=43&last_page=84&Paginatore=Singola On page 25 there is a review of SPACE ATTACK http://www.museo-computer.it/SalaLettura/VideoGiochi/1/paginatore-int?¤t_page=25&last_page=84&Paginatore=Singola On page 69 there is a complete cartridges list with prices (in Italian lire) http://www.museo-computer.it/SalaLettura/VideoGiochi/1/paginatore-int?¤t_page=69&last_page=84&Paginatore=Singola And also on page 3 a full-page advertisement by GBC (the distributor) http://www.museo-computer.it/SalaLettura/VideoGiochi/1/paginatore-int?current_page=3&last_page=84&Paginatore=Singola This demonstrates that in Italy the Arcadia in Italy was originally sold with the Hanimex Label (1982-83) distribuited by GBC (that was also the Italian distributor of Sinclair computers), and only later (1984) was distributed by GIG with the new name “LEONARDO”. #2364 Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 02:39:45 -0000 From: "Jason" Subject: Emerson Arcadia 2001 - Composite AV mod full walk through http://youtu.be/TAuMRMaBM-o I finally took the time to finish this mod and get it documented on youtube. The details: I pulled comp video at the junction of R40, R42, and R22. Also, removed R43, R41, and R51. The last one powers the RF modulator, the first two helped with brightness etc. I also used a 220uF cap in line with the comp video. #2365 Date: Sat, 15 Sep 2012 03:12:45 -0000 From: "Jason" Subject: Re: Emerson Arcadia 2001 - Composite AV mod full walk through BTW if anyone knows about the glitches and how to fix it let me know! #2366 Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:17:06 -0600 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Tom Pittman (Grand Slam Tennis) Article In message #1858 (Aug 08, 2006), James Jacobs writes: >There's also the Tom Pittman interview (Grand Slam Tennis). James had found the programmer of "Tennis," Tom Pittman, back in 2003. In the about quote, James mentions an interview, where is that? Today, quite by chance, I came across an article about the writing of "Tennis" for the Arcadia 2001 when looking up information on TinyBASIC. It seemed to just drop out of nowhere, as I hadn't given this system a look for a long time, and when you look up information about the Arcadia it is hard enough to come across, so it was especially weird to come across something new to me that I found of high value. Here is a link to an article that Tom Pittman wrote on October 9, 2003 about programming "Grand Slam Tennis." It's full of inside information and his views on programming the console - it's also pretty interesting because he had never programmed a game before. Indeed, he swears that he never even PLAYED a videogame before starting on "Tennis!" You can read the article here: http://www.ittybittycomputers.com/Essays/Tennis.html The above link is the preferred method to read the article, as it does provide some links both within and outside of the article, but I've pasted the article into this posting for archiving purposes: Developing a Video Game -- 22 Years Ago Reminiscences of an Early Game Programmer By Tom Pittman October 9, 2003 Where to start... A business acquaintance told me about his uncle who ran some kind of video game company in Hong Kong and was looking for game programmers, and I was interested. It was kind of strange, because I don't play video games, but I had written a few TinyBasic (text-based) games for that market. So I went down to the local video game arcade; I never spent a nickel there, I just watched people play so I could get a feel for how they play. Anyway, my friend brought over the development hardware and a big Sony TV to play it on (I don't watch TV either ;-) and a competitor's tennis game (I think it might have been Coleco, but I cannot remember). I played with it some and decided it was a bit hokey. The vendor wanted something "3-D" with a shadow to follow the ball around. I guessed I could do that. Problem #1: I don't play games, not even live games like tennis. I knew nothing about the game. So I went to the library or a bookstore (I can't remember which) and got a book on tennis rules. The scoring is bizarre -- certainly far more complex than the simple +1 scoring of the competition -- but not too complicated to program the computer to do it. Problem #2: In the competitor's product (and in most video games, many even today 22 years later) the characters sort of slide around on the screen to follow the joystick, and their feet move, but their feet don't stick to the ground. It's like they are skating on ice, a consequence of sprite graphics (see Problem #3). I resolved that MY game would be physically correct. In the competitor's game, the player just flipped from racket on the left to racket on the right, mirror image; that was the only swinging action. Again, I thought that real tennis players had a little more animation than that. So I went down to the local video rental store and rented a VCR and a tape of Billy Jean King teaching tennis. There was some lecturing, but mostly a lot of video action BJK serving the ball, or BJK running across the court to catch a ball with her forehand, or running the other way to catch it with her backhand, stuff like that. I set my 35mm camera up on a tripod in front of the TV and paused the tape a lot and took a lot of stop-action sequence snapshots off the screen -- maybe three or four rolls in all. Then I lined up the snapshots in sequences all over the kitchen counter and picked out the most representative running and swinging and serving sequences. Then I copied the posture and motion of BJK's moves onto graph paper. Well, not exactly, which brings me to ... Problem #3: Hardware limitations. The game console was eventually sold as Emerson Arcadia 2001, with a Signetics 2650 8-bit CPU and some kind of video chip that had 8 colors on maybe 256x256 pixels -- the pixels were not even square. And there were eight 8x8 single-color sprites. A sprite in computer graphics is a small picture that you can separately program not only what it looks like, but also where it will be displayed on the screen. That's how you get the skating effect: you run through a short animation of the character's legs running, and then independently you set the X/Y coordinates of where to show the character, and swish! It slides right over. Even in video hardware where you don't have hardware sprites, it's so much easier to program sprites for animation and motion independently, that the game software tools do sprites in software. 256x256 is not a lot of pixels, and 8 colors is pretty limiting. The sprites were a challenge in themselves: 8 pixels tall is too small for the players. I finally settled on one sprite for the legs, one for the head and shoulders, and one for the tennis racket. Each on-screen player was three sprites, leaving two for the ball and its shadow. Having only one of the 8 colors for a sprite was also a limitation, so I chose generic solid colors for the players, and white for the rackets and ball (and black for the shadow). Everything else, had to be programmed pixel by pixel. Worse than that, each block of (I think it was 8 pixels square) could only have one foreground color, and then a single background color for the whole screen. It was like the old character graphics from the days of the character-generator TV typewriters. It maybe had your choice of text-only at the bottom, or some kind of text over the whole screen. Now that I look at some of the other screen shots, I see that their character generator was one of those done by a computer programmer, with slashes through the zeros so they are hard to read. I consider that stupid, and you won't find any slashes through MY zeros (I'll use the letter "O" first). Problem #4: Sound. The video chip did sound by giving it a frequency of tone, or else a white noise generator (or both, I think), plus a few bits of volume control. When a real tennis racket hits the ball, you get a smushy-sharp "plock" as the ball compresses and rebounds, plus a little bit of a twang when the strings in the racket oscilate like a guitar string (but much shorter, because the cross-weave damps it quickly). I played around with the sound for a long time before I settled on a burst of white noise overlaid with a rapidly decaying high-frequency tone, and then little bursts of white noise at minimum audible volume for the footsetps. I considered more white noise at varying levels to be applause at the end of the game, but I don't think I ever did it. My program was already becoming too big. It had to fit in a 4K ROM. Problem #5: Animation. I did not want my characters skating over the grass, so I spent a lot of time carefully lining up the backward motion of the foot animation in the leg sprites to be synchronized with the forward motion speed I was moving the sprites, all on graph paper. In this game you cannot just zoom your player over to the other side of the court, you have to walk or run him over. I think I allowed for two speeds, walk and run, with an appropriate number of frames per pixel rate of motion -- and of course foot motions to match. As in the video, walking picks up one foot and sets it down before picking up the other foot. The foot that's on the ground must be moving backwards through its sprite at exactly the same speed the sprite is moving forward. When running there is a part of the cycle where both feet are off the ground, and the whole character is bouncing up and down with the leaps. That means the torso sprite must track the vertical motion of the legs sprite. I vaguely remember that the sprites weren't quite big enough to move them smoothly when running, so I had to adjust the sprite progress backwards (or forwards, I can't remember) one pixel in that part of the cycle to keep the foot animation continuous. It was pretty complicated. I never tried any diagonal running -- or maybe I tried and gave it quickly up as too hard -- but I did do both side-to-side and front/back walking and running. The front/back motion was somewhat simpler, and I maybe had a single animation for both walking and running. I wanted the winning character to jump over the net at the end of the set, but I was out of ROM space; they run around it. Because of the color limitations, you cannot tell which leg is in front of the other in the side-to-side walking and running. This made things a little simpler, because I could reuse the same leg sequence for both the left foot passing the right and the right foot passing the left, and in both directions. I think I did a pixel reverse subroutine to flip the image over and save pixel space in ROM. However, the racket was a different color, so (assuming the players are right-handed), when the player runs left-to-right on the screen, the racket sprite is in front of the person sprites, whereas when the player runs right-to-left the racket goes behind and partially disappears from view. I cannot remember whether I did this by switching sprites (I think there was a strict hardware-enforced z-order on the sprites), or by knocking out some of the racket pixels in its sprite. Notice that the running animations had matching arm swings synchronized with the legs, the way real people run. I did, after all, have all those video shots of BJK running to look at. And of course, the racket was in the player's hand, so it had to track the arm motion. Also, as the hand came down in the swing, the racket rotated on its own axis (and partially obscure, if running to the left). I wished I could have scaled the distant player to be smaller than the near one, but I simply did not have enough resolution to play with -- nor enough ROM space for the code to do it. None of these are problems today. So the guy in back looks too big. Oh well. Problems #6, and #7: Game physics. Today you can buy a whole book on game physics, and there are frequent articles in the computer game programming journals; 20 years ago the topic did not exist. I won't say mine was the first game to consider the physics, but it's probably in the first ten. Getting the parabolic curve in the trajectory of the ball in free-fall is not hard, it just takes a couple adds, the first to add the current ball velocity to the vertical position of the ball every frame, the second to add a constant negative acceleration to the velocity. This had to be done double-precision (16-bit integer), with the lower byte representing a fractional pixel to get smooth motion. All motion was done in fractional pixels, in full 3 dimensions; it required three 16-bit adds to each position vector, then dropping the integer part of the sum into the sprite coordinates. Oh yes, because this was a perspective view, I had to add half (?) the Y-axis position to the Z-axis to get the screen vertical, and run the character in the back at half the speed of the guy in front. Maybe I scaled them proportionally for the middle court, but I can't remember. I know I thought about it. I also thought about wind resistance, making the horizontal velocity of the ball slow down proportional to the square of its speed, but I think I decided not to. ROM space. Much trickier was getting the new trajectory of the ball correct after it's been hit by the tennis racket. I spent a long time working out the math (trigonometry) based on the racket angle and velocity, plus the incident ball velocity, to find a new reflected velocity. I was quite surprised that all the trig functions cancelled out leaving me with two multiplies and four adds. In a CPU without even a hardware multiply, that was a major plus. The physics was perfect. The game was unplayable. Think about it for a minute: real tennis players have spent five and ten years -- essentially all their childhood and early adult years swinging hard objects held in their hand at a flying round object, making the connection, and learning how to control where that ball flies off to. Even newbie tennis learners have had some experience with hand-arm-eye coordination, and yet they take weeks to learn how to get that tennis ball over the net and not out of the court. A video game, on the other hand, the prospective customer (probably an adolescent boy) expects to walk into the store, pick up the game paddle for the game on display, press the buttons and move the joystick -- all operations radically different from swinging their arm while holding a large wooden handle -- and score within 15 seconds, or they won't buy the game. With my original physics, you could have learned the coordination, but it would have taken weeks, just like learning how to hit a real tennis ball. That's a non-starter in the game market. So I threw out all the math and physics. Well, not ALL of it, I kept the trajectory physics, but I made the racket effectively four feet wide (about six pixels, as I recall), and reverse-calculated how hard and what angle the swing had to be to hit the ball and get it over the net. So if you are anywhere near the ball, and you push the button anywhere near the right time, you got it over. You can still control how hard you hit it (don't try a lob from right close to the net, it will go outside the opponent's court; a gentle hit from the back line will similarly not clear the net), and I think I left a little of the timing in (which controls the left/right angle, depending on whether it's a backhand or forehand), but it's relatively easy not to miss. Problem #8: ROM size. Did I say the program was getting too big? It WAS too big, twice too big. It was supposed to fit in 4K, but when I put it all together, it barely fit in 8K. The vendor was pretty nice about it, he accepted it and even paid me twice the agreed price (which I didn't ask for -- but I didn't refuse it either :-) He liked it so much, he even sent over a couple of his own programmers for me to tutor in game programming. Maybe that was part of the deal in paying me double. That was an experience in itself. One of them barely spoke a broken English, and the other knew only his native Chinese. I don't recall what-all I told them, nor how much they actually understood, but they seemed pleased with the process, and treated me to a huge Chinese dinner (ordered off-menu in Chinese at a local Chinese restaurant). OK, so Funky Fish isn't the most exciting game in the Arcadia catalog, but it was what the guy could handle (I can't remember what the other guy did). Whatever. Maybe some day I'll write another video game. The bar is a lot higher today, involving 5-10 programmers, plus graphic artists, sound people (composers, etc), animation, way more than any one person can do. But it's a meritocracy: people are honored for what they (can) do, not who they are. I can still write pretty good code. PostScript James Jacobs has put together an excellent website of Arcadia memorabilia, including his own open-source WinArcadia emulator. It even successfully demultiplexes the sprites so they don't flicker. And yes, he has a copy of "Grand-Slam Tennis" in his Arcadia Software Pack. Pretty neat article, huh? There are so many tantalizing bits of information just dropped about in there and I'd like to look them up. Maybe some other Arcadia fan will do that now? Someday? #2367 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2012 14:29:49 -0400 From: Bill Loguidice Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Tom Pittman (Grand Slam Tennis) Article Awesome find. His recollections are indeed terribly fuzzy and there are a few cases where it's obviously wrong. For instance, the competitor tennis game he's referring to is almost certainly Activision's Tennis for the Atari 2600 (Tournament Tennis for the ColecoVision would come out much later), which he clearly cribbed the perspective from for his own game. Nevertheless, still a rather gripping account. #2368 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 09:21:53 -0600 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Tom Pittman (Grand Slam Tennis) Article Bill Loguidice wrote: >he's referring to [...] Activision's Tennis for the Atari 2600 [...], which >he clearly cribbed the perspective from for his own game. What makes you think that Tom stole the perspective? I don't watch tennis on TV much, but from the games that I've seen, the main perspective has been from behind one player. This forced perspective lets you see just about everything that can happen during a game. I'm not saying that TV games don't make cuts to show different angles (or enhance the drama), but it seems that if I was going to sit down and write a realistic-type Tennis game, which was very certainly Tom Pittman's goal (too realistic, as he admits in his article), then the perspective that Alan Miller chose for Activision's Tennis would have been the only real choice. While I know that Tennis games prior to 1980 were usually simply Pong-type games, was Activision's Tennis the first game that used this perspective? #2369 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2012 11:33:26 -0400 From: Bill Loguidice Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Tom Pittman (Grand Slam Tennis) Article "Stole" is too strong of a word. Everyone liberally "borrowed" ideas back then. He clearly put a lot of thought into how the game worked, but he clearly did some mental reverse engineering of Activision's Tennis game for the VCS to improve upon the deficiencies as he states in the article. It's not a similar perspective, it IS the perspective. That's a bit too coincidental considering that's the only other tennis videogame he looked at. I'm NOT framing it as a bad thing, I'm framing it as "proof" that he was referring to Activision's Tennis, not a future ColecoVision game. #2370 Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2012 23:36:15 +0100 From: "Carlo Santagostino" Subject: Found Bandai Arcadia Japan TV Spot! Go to minute 3:30 for the BANDAI ARCADIA Japan TV Spot! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GP6aXObQkww&list=ULGP6aXObQkww #2374 Date: 15 Sep 2013 07:12:24 -0700 From: Subject: Source for Arcadia/Hanimex hardware? I have an Emerson-style multicart containing all games and homebrews, with which I want to do compatibility testing, to ascertain any outstanding problems with the Ami/WinArcadia emulation. Therefore, I'm wanting to buy an Emerson Arcadia 2001, Hanimex HMG-2650 or some other slot-compatible variant. (Ideally an Australian one, as there would be less PAL/NTSC and power supply issues.) I have watching for several months waiting for one to become available at a reasonable price on eBay, however the only one available is approx. $800, obviously way out of my price range being unemployed. Which is odd because previously these and similar systems were selling for far less (eg. MPT-03 systems for $10). Anyway, my question is: am I looking in the wrong place? Is there some other site offering Arcadias/Hanimexes/any other slot-compatible Arcadia clones for reasonable prices? #2375 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 08:20:57 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Source for Arcadia/Hanimex hardware? James wrote: >Anyway, my question is: am I looking in the wrong place? [ebay?] Ebay is what I would choose to use - and you're right: $800 is an extreme price to pay for this system. There's an Arcadia 2001 on Ebay right now with some games for $200 or best offer. Still, not cheap, but maybe you can get a reasonable price with a lower offer. To help me trim the fat at and not get so many hits I use this modified search (based on a search string that Ward sent to me about ten years ago!): arcadia emerson -puck -suit -NES -PC -Sony -floor -zero -dream Maybe it will help you. I wouldn't ONLY use this string, but it gets rid of an awful lot of auctions that have nothing at all to do with what you're looking for. Wouldn't it be great if all the systems had used the same damn cartridge slot!?! #2376 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 11:34:41 -0400 (EDT) From: markwcanon@... Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Source for Arcadia/Hanimex hardware? I have a complete in box Gig Leonardo system that is a spare I would be willing to part with. Don't know if this fits the bill on what you would be interested in? It looks almost like new, has the 2 foams, manual, ac and box...box is solid in decent shape with some shelf wear and a couple tape marks. I haven't tested it any recent time, so I probably should do so if your interested. I am in the us though and don't have a pal tv, so my full testing for it would be limited I suppose. Anyway, let me know if there is any chance you are interested, I probably would look to get about $125 for it plus shipping costs. #2377 Date: Tue, 17 Sep 2013 03:08:21 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Source for Arcadia/Hanimex hardware? >There's an Arcadia 2001 on Ebay right now with some games for $200 or best offer. I couldn't find this one with that search string, maybe they don't ship to Australia so it doesn't show up in my search result? "VINTAGE EMERSON ARCADIA 2001 HANIMEX SYSTEM RED CLASH VIDEO GAME COMPLETE RARE!!" is about $200 but that's just the Red Clash game. >I have a complete in box Gig Leonardo system that is a spare I would be willing to part with. Don't know if this fits the bill on what you would be interested in? Yes, sounds good... >I haven't tested it any recent time, so I probably should do so if your interested. I am in the us though and don't have a pal tv, so my full testing for it would be limited I suppose. Actually I don't think PAL/NTSC should make much difference, I think most TVs sold here can handle both formats, not so sure about whether American TVs do... #2378 Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2013 14:28:16 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Source for Arcadia/Hanimex hardware? Seems like James is right about only shipping in the U.S. Still, in case anyone else is interested, here is the ebay Auction number: 300962574912. #2379 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2013 10:05:51 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Source for Arcadia/Hanimex hardware? >I have a complete in box Gig Leonardo system that is a spare I would be willing to part with. Don't know if this fits the bill on what you would be interested in? >It looks almost like new, has the 2 foams, manual, ac and box...box is >solid in decent shape with some shelf wear and a couple tape marks. >Anyway, let me know if there is any chance you are interested. Yes, I'm still interested... #2380 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2013 20:51:54 -0400 (EDT) From: markwcanon@... Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Source for Arcadia/Hanimex hardware? Sorry James, been really busy, my work has been killing me with hours and have hardly had any extra time for any videogame related stuff. But just yesterday I did get the Leonardo out and hooked it up to an old school crt ntsc tv I had out in my gaming building. It powered up fine, power light lights...and its obvious on the screen when you turn the console on and hit buttons, but the screen is completely jumbled and black and white on my ntsc set. I couldn't seem to tune a picture in on channel 3 or 4. I could faintly hear cat trax sounds when I had it in. So I think its a pal/ntsc issue with the old set, but I am not certain, and with the image all jumbled I cant check controlers. I haven't had a chance to bring it in the house and try it on a new lcd ntsc tv or try some of my other pal systems to see if I get the same type of image. I know when I have played my palladium or mr altus in the past they only played in black and white on the ntsc crt with a pretty poor image and were hard to tune in at all. Also no sound if I remember right. I really badly need to get a pal tv or converter box sometime so I can enjoy all my pal hardware proper :P So I am happy to sell it to you as is, I would be very surprised if it is broken, it looks like new. Or I can try and test more if you like. Let me know your thoughts :) #2381 Date: Fri, 27 Sep 2013 09:38:53 +1000 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Source for Arcadia/Hanimex hardware? >the screen is completely jumbled and black and white on my ntsc set. I couldn't seem to tune a picture in on channel 3 or 4. I could faintly hear cat trax sounds when I had it in. IIRC, if it's anything like the result from viewing an NTSC signal on a PAL TV, there should be some quasi-legible output, in black and white, enough to at least tell what game it is...my memory on this point might be wrong though. If you want to test it some more first I'm happy to wait... #2382 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 10:25:45 -0700 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Radofin Hobby Module In the current issue of Retrogamer (#120) there is an interview with Colin Porch, a programmer from England. I'd never heard of him, but he did program a few games that I'm familiar with. When asked how he got his start in programming I was pretty surprised to read that it was with the Radofin Hobby Module. This system is part of the Interton VC-4000 family. Colin actually made a game called "California Gold Rush," but it wasn't released, although he later ported it to the Commodore 64: http://www.gamebase64.com/game.php?id=1228&d=39 Colin has a few paragraphs to say about the Hobby System, which is worth reading. If you're interested in ordering the magazine, then it can be picked up for about five pounds plus shipping, here: https://www.imagineshop.co.uk/magazines/retrogamer/retro-gamer-issue-120.html Back issues don't last long, so if you want it then you should order it soon. #2383 Date: Mon, 30 Sep 2013 11:44:18 -0700 (PDT) From: "Russ Perry, Jr." Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Radofin Hobby Module For those interested, it's worth noting that you may be able to find Retrogamer at Barnes & Noble stores, though they are a little behind the UK releases (i.e. #120 may not be available YET). I THINK they cost $10 or $12; can't recall for sure. #2384 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 10:28:50 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) For about the last year I've been watching older cartoons from about the 1920's to around the 1950's. I regularly read a site called Cartoon Research dedicated to cartoons in general. Today there was a story dedicated to the cartoon Dr. Slump, which first aired in Japan in 1980. Dr. Slump was one of the four exclusive games released for the Bandai Arcadia. You can play the game either in emulation or on some of the multicarts which will allow you to play the game on your Arcadia/MPT-03 system. Here's a link to the article called "Dr. Slump and Arale:" http://cartoonresearch.com/index.php/dr-slump-and-arale/ (The article has a link to the first cartoon in the series, which has been subtitled.) Here's some general information about the Dr. Slump videogames that were released: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dr._Slump#Video_games Here's a Japanese link YouTube video of someone playing Dr. Slump on their Bandai Arcadia: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UulRZOtVlKA I was pretty impressed when I first saw the Arcadia Dr. Slump game in December of 2002. It had a nice title screen for the system (I still scratch my head and wonder about that). In general, all of the Bandai games are pretty good. I have no idea how to play the Dr. Slump Arcadia game since I have not dedicated any time to playing it. Is there a scan of the manual? If there IS a scan of the manual, then is a translation of it available? #2385 Date: 15 Jan 2014 18:25:47 -0800 From: Subject: RE: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) The manual scan is at http://amigan.yatho.com/dr-slump.zip However, there's no English translation of it (nor of the manuals of the other Bandai games), unfortunately. #2386 Date: Wed, 15 Jan 2014 21:12:55 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) Thanks for pointing me to the manual. I didn't know that it was on your site. At just about 40K each for a two-page scan, the scans of the Dr. Slump manual are low-resolution. This may be a a sign of the times-- it looks like they were scanned in 2004. It would probably be rather hard to have anyone translate the manual (presuming such a person can be found) as many of the individual characters are quite hard to make out because of the scan. Is the original manual grayscale (not color)-- or was that done to the scan to reduce the size of it? If you scanned this yourself, and you still happen to have the original scans in a higher resolution, perhaps you can now add those to the site. It would make the chances of the manual translation much better-- maybe it could even be OCR-ed and then translated into some sort of mangled English by an online translator. #2387 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 00:24:34 -0500 (EST) From: markwcanon@... Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) Sadly this is the only Arcadia game I am missing of the 55 known games or I would provide a better scan. If I remember correct though The manuals would be 3 color prints. A couple hours ago I sent the posted zip to my friend in japan that is my primary buyer for Japanese items for my collection. I am hoping he will be willing to translate this and able from the quality of it. I'll post back when I hear anything from him :) #2388 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 00:41:07 -0500 (EST) From: markwcanon@... Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) I just heard back from my friend in Japan. He was very nice, he said he will be happy to try and translate the manual. He said it will probably be rather difficult to do since the game is based on the animated cartoon and it will be rather hard conveying certain parts of Japanese nuances. But he said he will do his best to try and put these into context English speaking people would understand. He said it probably will take him a bit of time to do it. It didn't sound like the scan quality was any problem for him, but it certainly would be nice to get some good res scans documented. I'll post back when I hear more :) #2389 Date: 16 Jan 2014 05:51:12 -0800 From: Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) I found some higher-resolution scans of Dr. Slump and Doraemon on my hard disk so I have now uploaded them to replace the lower-res ones. (They are still greyscale though.) >Sadly this is the only Arcadia game I am missing of the 55 known games or I would provide a better scan. Gundam and Macross don't have manuals available at all (neither do 3D Attack, 3D Soccer, Auto Race, Battle, Circus, Crazy Gobbler, Golf, Grand Slam Tennis, Hobo, Jump Bug, Jungler, Pleiades, Red Clash, Robot Killer, Route 16, Space Vultures, Turtles/Turpin. And these 7 have only ASCII versions (ie. no scans): Crazy Climber, Horse Racing, Monaco Grand Prix, Ocean Battle, Soccer, Space Squadron, Star Chess). BTW I noticed something odd about the colours of Dr. Slump: all emulators have purple hair on the title screen and yellow ground during play. Also the video at the site (http://amigan.yatho.com/dr-slump.rar) from a real machine has this. Whereas the video that was mentioned today has red hair and green ground. #2390 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 07:58:28 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) Mark wrote: >I just heard back from my friend in Japan. [...] he will be happy to try and translate the manual. I'm sure that he doesn't plan to translate the whole thing. To me, the backstory would be neat as well as the core gameplay. Tell him thanks! #2391 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 08:14:36 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) amigansoftware@... wrote: >I found some higher-resolution scans of Dr. Slump and Doraemon on my hard disk so I have now uploaded them to replace the lower-res ones. (They are still greyscale though.) Thanks. I downloaded these and these are quite readable. Um, to one that can read Japanese. >Gundam and Macross [and many others] don't have manuals available at all I'm going to make a separate post about the missing manuals. >I noticed something odd about the colours of Dr. Slump: all emulators have purple hair on the title screen and yellow ground during play. Also the video at the site (http://amigan.yatho.com/dr-slump.rar) from a real machine has this. Whereas the video that was mentioned today has red hair and green ground. Great observation skills! That is indeed strange. Could the Bandai machine be mapping colors differently-- that is, could the hardware itself be different? Does anyone have this unit? #2392 Date: Thu, 16 Jan 2014 08:18:43 -0800 From: Adam Trionfo Subject: Missing Manuals (Scans Needed); was: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) Here are the missing manuals for the Arcadia system games. Can anyone provide these in color 300-dpi TIFF, BMP or PNG format? (Currently No Scans or manuals at all are available) ---------------------------------------------------- 1) 3D Attack 2) 3D Soccer 3) Auto Race 4) Battle 5) Circus 6) Crazy Gobbler 7) Golf 8) Grand Slam Tennis 9) Gundam 10) Hobo 11) Jump Bug 12) Jungler 13) Macross 14) Pleiades 15) Red Clash 16) Robot Killer 17) Route 16 18) Space Vultures 19) Turtles/Turpin ASCII Manuals available (Scans needed): --------------------------------------- 1) Crazy Climber 2) Horse Racing 3) Monaco Grand Prix 4) Ocean Battle 5) Soccer 6) Space Squadron 7) Star Chess It would be great to see a complete set of manuals for this system that just doesn't get any love. This system has ended up in the dustpan of time. It has been pushed aside and just plain forgotten by game players. Which is a shame, as there are some interesting titles on this system. #2393 Date: Fri, 17 Jan 2014 17:42:29 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) >Could the Bandai machine be mapping colors differently-- that is, could the hardware itself be different? There is also a video from him of a blue Gundam (instead of green). The title screen is tinted blue also. So it probably is just some issue with his TV set (or camera). It is possible that the Bandai has some different colour handling to eg. the Emerson (eg. the Flag pin is already known to be different, although this issue is not related to the Flag pin). It is also possible but unlikely that there are two slightly different versions of each game. To know for sure they could be tested eg. with a multicart, on eg. an Emerson machine and a Bandai machine and the colours compared. #2394 Date: 15 Feb 2014 22:51:56 -0800 From: Subject: RE: Missing Manuals (Scans Needed); was: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) I have some good news...I bought a Australian PAL Emerson Arcadia 2001. It came with some games, so I scanned in the manuals. The games are 3D Bowling, Soccer and Space Vultures. I also have the multicart and have been running the various programs checking suspected compatibility issues. (Dr. Slump has purple hair and yellow ground.) Additionally, for Elektor TVGC, I was kindly lent some Hocosoft tapes and was able to successfully dump those. 11 programs, some of which are unique and others of which are conversions of Interton games. Some of them don't work very well on the emulator yet though. You can get those files at my site as usual (http://amigan.yatho.com). #2395 Date: 17 Feb 2014 20:21:46 -0800 From: Subject: RE: Missing Manuals (Scans Needed); was: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) Thanks for archiving those Elektor TVGC tapes. But I have to admit I'm getting a little lost on your website. Where do you actually download them from? #2396 Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2014 22:25:07 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: RE: Missing Manuals (Scans Needed); was: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) In the Games Pack (in the Packs section)...They are currently available as PGM and AOF files, I will probably upload the WAVs too at some point. #2397 Date: 18 Feb 2014 19:29:11 -0800 From: Subject: RE: Missing Manuals (Scans Needed); was: Dr. Slump (Arcadia Game and History of Cartoon) Thanks, that's a lot of games! #2398 Date: 11 Mar 2014 03:58:50 -0700 From: Subject: MESS VC4000 Software List Hey, I'm getting ready to update the MESS list of dumped and undumped VC4000 software. I guess the best place to start is the "Archived Cartridges" list on this page: http://amigan.1emu.net/igg/#archived I want to avoid adding bad dumps, however, at least if there is a good dump also available. In that list, only Challenge is labeled as a bad dump. If I understand correctly, Super Knockout is also a bad dump. Are there any others? There are several games that have two dumps – "Air/Sea Attack" + "Air/Sea Battle", "Tank/Plane Battle" + "Tank Battle/Air Battle", "Invaders", "Electronic Pinball" + "Pinball", and "Soccer". It looks to me like these are cases where the releases from various regions genuinely differed. Is that right? Here's the current sofware list. I believe it's only considering the Interton releases now, so I want to add any unique software from other regions. http://git.redump.net/mame/tree/hash/vc4000.xml Thanks for any info! #2399 Date: Wed, 12 Mar 2014 03:03:14 +1100 From: James Jacobs Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] MESS VC4000 Software List The version of Super Knockout with CRC32 of $3467CF62 is a good dump. The bad dump (CRC32 of $2737D62D) is hopefully not still floating around the net, it was only 27% correct :-( There are 2 different bad dumps of Challenge, but no good dump. >There are several games that have two dumps - "Air/Sea Attack" + "Air/Sea Battle", "Tank/Plane Battle" + "Tank Battle/Air Battle", "Invaders", "Electronic Pinball" + "Pinball", and "Soccer". It looks to me like these are cases where the releases from various regions genuinely differed. Is that right? Yes. #2400 Date: 18 Mar 2014 05:20:03 -0700 From: Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] MESS VC4000 Software List Thanks for the information. When I asked a couple of years ago, you said there was no good dump of Super Knockout available (message #2352), so I'm glad that problem has been resolved. You also noted that Challenge was probably the same 4 In A Row, though of course "probably" also means "maybe not". In that same message thread, Mike (kiwigame) talked about getting Hobby Module, Leap Frog, and Munch & Crunch dumped. I guess that still hasn't happened. At the time, the only dumping plan involved shipping them from New Zealand to the United Kingdom. Maybe some of use could chip in for shipping costs if that's an issue. I doubt it would be too bad for just three carts. #2401 Date: 09 Jan 2015 08:27:05 -0800 Subject: Cart dumping From: James Jacobs There has been progress in getting the remaining carts dumped. Come Come, Crazy Crab and Munch & Crunch have recently been dumped. (They are available from Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central as usual.) So if anyone has 3D Attack and/or Leap Frog, these can now likewise be dumped and the entire cartridge library will be complete. #2402 Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2015 10:03:58 -0800 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Cart dumping From: Adam Trionfo I don't remember hearing about these two titles at all. "Come Come, Crazy Crab" looks interesting from the (very low-res flv) video on the linked website. Can anyone provide high-resolution videos of these two games played on real hardware? Thanks for keeping up with the Emerson Arcadia, which is easily one of the most difficult to collect-for consoles available in any territory. A quick look at the Emerson's releases in the U.S. could make someone think that this is a quickie console to collect everything for. As long as that collector doesn't t dig past the U.S., then they would indeed be right. After they got all the Emerson games, they could just close their eyes and pretend the system was never released anywhere else-- otherwise the collection is staggeringly deep and difficult to understand and piece together. #2403 Date: 11 Jan 2015 12:18:17 -0800 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Cart dumping From: pinwhiz@... I own a copy of Leap Frog and have committed to people (James B.) that I'll supply it for dumping (guys in Germany) I did try and find my copy a just before xmas and failed (I have lots of boxes of stuff to go through to find it) but will start looking again tonight. #2404 Date: 11 Jan 2015 19:28:38 -0800 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Cart dumping From: ssjbrollyus@... Thanks for your help, I got your email and will reply to you soon with needed the info so we can arrange the shipping details. We still need 3D Attack for Arcadia 2001, so if anyone could help with that one it would be great. #2405 Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2015 10:43:42 -0800 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Cart dumping From: Adam Trionfo Is this a video of the same "Leapfrog" game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUkF0c8BNj4 #2406 Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2015 17:59:54 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Cart dumping From: James Jacobs Yes. BTW the other two games mentioned in the comments have now been dumped. #2407 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 03:38:56 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Cart dumping From: Kevin Bunch Were any of these games released under different names for other compatible systems? Leap Frog actually looks pretty good! #2408 Date: Thu, 15 Jan 2015 17:24:28 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Cart dumping From: James Jacobs >Were any of these games released under different names for other compatible systems? No, AFAIK. #2409 Date: 18 Feb 2015 00:44:52 -0800 Subject: Hobby Module & Planet Defender From: ssjbrollyus@... Anyone ever saw boxed Acetronic versions for Hobby Module and/or Planet Defender? Trying to get confirmation if they were ever released, if you have any pictures that can prove their releases please share them. Even if you don't have pictures, but know they had Acetronic releases any info you might have would be nice, like for instance what color were the boxes. I know Hobby Module had a Radofin purple box release and I've seen red and blue boxes for Planet Defender, but still never spotted actual Acetronic boxes for both. #2410 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 22:33:54 +0000 Subject: Turtles/Turpin Manual Scan? From: Adam Trionfo Is there a scan of the "Turtles" manual? I've looked around and couldn't find one. If anyone has it, could you scan it in? How rare is "Turtles", anyway? #2411 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 18:40:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Turtles/Turpin Manual Scan? From: markwcanon@... I have a few versions of turtles. I will try and scan an English manual when I get a chance unless someone else does first. I would say turtles is a solid 7 if not bordering an 8 in rarity scale. #2412 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 23:04:15 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Turtles/Turpin Manual Scan? From: Adam Trionfo Thanks for offering to scan in your English version of the "Turtles" manual, Mark! I only have about ten or so Arcadia 2001 titles (and two MPT-03 titles). These are all complete in the box. Of course, I can play all of the other games on the multicart that Ward made back in (about) 2001. That's what I'll be tonight, I guess. Making my way through some of those titles again. I never understood "Turtles" until I read the article about it, so here is to hoping that the Arcadia version of "Turtles" is fun! #2413 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 23:13:10 +0000 Subject: "Cat Trax" - In Top 100 All-Time Console Game List! From: Adam Trionfo I'm currently reading "The 100 Greatest Console Video Games: 1977-1987," by Brett Weiss. This book, from 2014, lists the top 100 games in alphabetical order (not the order of which game is considered best): in a way, I think the author feels that they're all equally good. In the top 100 list are the usual systems (Atari 2600, Atari 5200, Colecovision and NES), but listed also are a few titles for other systems. The Bally Astrocade squeezes in the one game ("The Incredible Wizard") and the Arcadia 2001 also manages to get one game on the list ("Cat Trax"). I was really surprised that ANY Arcadia game made the list. My favorite game on the system is probably "Crazy Gobbler." Since "Cat Trax" is the same game (with changed graphics), it's nice to see it included. Here's a quick video review of the book: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uapo1jXcYfM My copy of the book is from the library-- but I think that I like it enough that I'm going to buy it. #2414 Date: Thu, 21 Apr 2016 20:20:50 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Turtles/Turpin Manual Scan? From: markwcanon@... No problem Adam ;) I finally have all 55 unique arcadia titles. I still miss the box and manual for Super Bug though. And the manuals for circus and Bandai's macross. So if anyone can ever help me with any of those I will be truly great full :) And of course there is still a decent amount of variant releases I would love to get. Yeah turtles is like if mouse trap and rally x had a weird baby hehe You should get a kick out of it, have fun! #2415 Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2016 15:53:02 +0000 Subject: An Evening with the Arcadia 2001; was; Turtles/Turpin Manual Scan? From: Adam Trionfo My friend and I played "Turtles" last night on the Arcadia 2001 using Ward's multicart that I bought way back in 2001 or so. I have no experience with "Turtles," but Chris is very familiar with the game, and he was really surprised to see that it has more elements of the game that "Turtles" is based on than he expected. I think he's going to join the Arcadia discussion group to talk about this. We ended up playing all sorts of games on the system. He has a 32" Sony Trinitron. The picture from the little Arcadia's RF output looked great on there. We played quite a few games over the course of several hours, but I think my favorites were "Macross" and "Route 16." I used to LOVE Robotech (I'm still a fan of the series, actually), and going toe-to-toe against the battle pods on the first level was great fun. It was awesome making my way inside the ship and seeing the officer's battle pods (which are quite cool looking). I then made my way to the ship's reactor (or whatever it is) and destroyed it before making my way out of the ship. There's quite a bit of fun in that game; it's an in-depth game for the Arcadia system. I cleared the first screen (16 rooms) on "Route 16." I didn't know that the game was based on an arcade game until Chris told me about it. For some reason, Chris expected the Arcadia 2001's games to be on par with the Channel F console. He didn't realize that graphics would look as good as they did. It was really fun going through these games again on real hardware. The fuzziness of the TV screen magically makes games look better. For anyone playing classic games only under emulation-- you're missing out on how these games are really supposed to look. #2416 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 17:20:23 +0200 Subject: Recommended Cartridge Manager From: Dennis Spreen as I just got a little bit more space, I've decided to expand my small arcadia cartridge collection (I was a palladium cartridge collector only till now ;-). What software do you guys use to manager your cartdridge collection? any recommendations? i found some online sites (vgcollect, completionator) and some android/iphone tools but not really good windows tools. btw: if you have some redudant arcadia cartridges that live under a big dust cover, you may consider selling them to me ;.) #2417 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:12:20 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Recommended Cartridge Manager From: markwcanon@... I made my own spreadsheet to keep track of my collections in excel. I have many spare Arcadia games for all different systems and families if you are interested in some. #2418 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 12:18:21 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Recommended Cartridge Manager From: Bill Loguidice I do the same. I have many hundreds of different systems and after trying some custom solutions (even creating my own Access database) I found the easiest and quickest method was simply to have a multi-workbook Excel spreadsheet. It's accessibly anywhere (and always redundantly backed up) through Dropbox. #2419 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 17:51:57 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Recommended Cartridge Manager From: "Russ Perry, Jr." I used to keep my lists in Quark XPress because it gave me a lot of options for how to format and print them. But even before I lost access to QX, I began changing my lists to just be simple HTML -- initially just so I'd have access to my lists not just at home, but at work too, if I had time to scan eBay during a break. And now, in the age of smartphones, it's an even better idea. Of course, ideally there'd be some sort of spreadsheet/database that could spit out the HTML for you (I'm pretty sure there ARE programs out there, but I can't recommend any for lack of experience with any of them), but I find handcoded the files I have isn't a big deal. Ironically, Arcadia is one of the systems that I haven't gotten around to putting in HTML format -- my lists for older systems pre-date even my Quark days, when I was doing "need" lists instead of "have" lists, and I've been too lazy to verify what I have for sure to put those lists together. "Someday", or... not. #2420 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 18:27:03 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Recommended Cartridge Manager From: Adam Trionfo Russ Perry wrote: >Ironically, Arcadia is one of the systems that I haven't gotten around to putting in HTML format Russ, is your collection still huge (and growing), or have you trimmed down your collection at all since the early early 90s? My collection has shrunk to such a small size that I don't keep track of it anymore with anything but short text file lists. #2421 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 14:27:32 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Recommended Cartridge Manager From: markwcanon@... Hey Dennis, can't seem to email you back so... Hi, Well I have spares for about every console besides the usa emerson. I believe I have already sold every last 1 of them. I think the last of the loose ones were sold to use for multicart shells. Of course I have many that fit in the usa emerson (liesurevision, leonardo, schmid, hanimex, tunix, telefever, etc)including titles that didn't get released for it. Also have spare palladiums, ormatu, sheen, mpt03 etc. #2422 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 18:29:05 +0000 Subject: Is there an Arcadia 2001 Podcast? From: Adam Trionfo Is there an Emerson 2001 podcast-- or a podcast that occasionally covers this system (or its many foreign siblings, like the MPT-03)? #2423 Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2016 20:40:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Recommended Cartridge Manager From: "Russ Perry, Jr." It's still huge, but not growing much... I only very rarely buy newer generation stuff anymore, I haven't been hunting stuff I've missed very much, and I've even slowed down on buying homebrewed stuff. Frankly, if my collection were more organized, and/or I had more ambition, and/or my stuff was worth more, I'd probably have started paring it down. For the time being, it just sits. :-( #2424 Date: 15 Nov 2016 14:36:12 -0800 Subject: Trading boxes for loose carts From: lucifershalo@... I am collecting only loose carts for Arcadia 2001 so here are the items I have to trade complete in box I have FUNKY FISH schmid PLEIADES schmid 3D BOWLING arcadia CAT TRAX hanimex BOWLING 3D home arcade SPACE SQUADRON home arcade NIBBLEMEN box only CRAZY GOBBLER preferably contact me on Atariage forum or my email laurentDOTdziubasATgmailDOTcom I am in Belgium #2425 Date: 18 Nov 2016 05:08:27 -0800 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Recommended Cartridge Manager From: lucifershalo@... Hello I am looking for some Arcadia loose games to complete my collection #2426 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 18:17:01 +0000 Subject: Homebrew Frogger bug? From: Adam Trionfo I'm playing James Jacobs' Frogger (version 1.27) under Windows 7 (64-bit) using WinArcadia 24.52. I'm pretty sure that this is the first time that I've played it. In the course of a few games, I've moved into spots where there is no chance that I can be killed by a car on the first row, and yet I get killed. I also had the game crash on me: The screen froze, but the sound of moving my joystick still worked and then there was the death sound. Has anyone else encountered these problems? Is Frogger considered finished? #2427 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 10:16:36 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Homebrew Frogger bug? From: James Jacobs >Is Frogger considered finished? As far as features go, yes. But of course I always want to fix any bugs found. >In the course of a few games, I've moved into spots where there is no chance that I can be killed by a car on the first row, and yet I get killed. Yes, I can confirm that. IIRC that didn't occur with the version of the emulator that was used at the time of the original development and playtesting. Maybe some change to the emulation engine since then has had this side effect. I will investigate. >I also had the game crash on me: The screen froze, but the sound of moving my joystick still worked and then there was the death sound. I don't think this is a bug in the game per se, it is more to do with the interaction between Win8.1 and the emulator. I can reproduce that issue on Win8.1 but not XP/7/10, which suggests it was probably some Windows bug introduced in Win8 or 8.1 and fixed for Win10. The main problem with Frogger is that on my real machine the horizontal fine scrolling does not work (presumably a synchronization problem); the cars etc. "jump" one character position at a time. Fixing that is not really feasible as I have no way of testing it on the real machine (I have a multicart but no RAM cart). #2428 Date: Wed, 15 Feb 2017 23:28:57 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Homebrew Frogger bug? From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >don't think this is a bug in the game per se, it is more to do with the interaction between Win8.1 and the emulator. I can reproduce that issue on Win8.1 but not XP/7/10 I am running the emulator under Windows 7 and this crash did happen to me. >The main problem with Frogger is that on my real machine the horizontal fine scrolling does not work (presumably a synchronization problem); the cars etc. "jump" one character position at a time. Fixing that is not really feasible as I have no way of testing it on the real machine (I have a multicart but no RAM cart). So, it seems you've tried this on real hardware somehow? Did you burn an EPROM? #2429 Date: 16 Feb 2017 01:16:27 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Homebrew Frogger bug? From: amigansoftware@... >I am running the emulator under Windows 7 and this crash did happen to me. Maybe I have an earlier build of Windows 7 than you, or I just have not run into that bug yet on that machine. If we are talking about the same bug, you will find that after it triggers you can still eg. toggle sound on/off by clicking on the toolbar but the toolbar imagery will stay the same. >So, it seems you've tried this on real hardware somehow? Did you burn an EPROM? I have one of the multicarts pictured. I'm not entirely sure which version of Frogger is on it; the label says 1.25 but I seem to recall making some last-minute fixes to improve compatibility (bringing the version up to 1.27) for the multicart's maker, because it wasn't working on real hardware, so presumably it is V1.27 on there. #2430 Date: Thu, 16 Feb 2017 02:36:08 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Homebrew Frogger bug? [1 Attachment] From: harvey_d Frogger 1.27 is on the multicart. The label says 1.25, but yes, a new version was made that worked better on the real hardware. I can't remember the issues with 1.25, but 1.27 seemed to work okay. I haven't tested it too much, though. #2431 Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2017 16:23:06 +0000 Subject: Plans: Atari Joystick Adapter on Arcadia 2001 From: Adam Trionfo There are some descent games available on the Arcadia system, but those controllers really let me down and turn me off. I'd love to be able to play Cat Trax or Juggler without (rightly or wrongly) blaming the controller for my poor gameplay. Are there any plans or wiring diagrams available to use an Atari joystick on the Arcadia console? I guess the plans would have to allow both the original Arcadia controller and Atari-style joystick to be plugged in at the same time so that the keypad on the Arcadia controller could be used. I recently made an Atari to Astrocade adapter, and I'd love to make such an adapter for the Arcadia 2001! #2432 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 14:53:48 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Plans: Atari Joystick Adapter on Arcadia 2001 From: James Jacobs >Are there any plans or wiring diagrams available to use an Atari joystick on the Arcadia console? No such adapter has been designed, however schematics for the machine itself are available. Be aware though that the Arcadia 2001 controllers use analog potentiometers; this can be observed with eg. the Circus game. Ie. the horizontal position of the man on-screen corresponds with the horizontal position of the controller. Ocean Battle is the other game that also makes use of it. So the proposed device would not be useful with those games (unless they were patched). #2433 Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2017 14:41:01 +0000 Subject: Re: Plans: Atari Joystick Adapter on Arcadia 2001 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >Be aware though that the Arcadia 2001 controllers use analog potentiometers I'd forgotten about that! I remember in the early 2000s, Ward made makeshift paddle for the "paddle" port (which looks like a 1/8" stereo jack) on the Emerson Arcadia 2001. I guess it made a couple of games play better. Searching the archives, I found at least some of the posts that Ward made about the paddles in 2002. The first one with details was made on November 21, 2002 in post the following post: https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/arcadia2001consoles/conversations/messages/1053 In the above post, Ward says, "I just uploaded a long-ish text [called arc_port.txt], about what I learned last night about the "rear auxiliary controller jacks" as Emerson referred to them. See it in the files section, under "hardware information". I put it up in both Word and ASCII formats, just in case.] Ward Shrake made MANY follow-up postings concerning the "paddles" in November 2002. Here are three of them: https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/arcadia2001consoles/conversations/messages/1056 https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/arcadia2001consoles/conversations/messages/1060 https://beta.groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/arcadia2001consoles/conversations/messages/1062 As far as I can tell, Ward's file arc_port.txt (properly called ""About the Arcadia 2001 family's rear auxiliary controller ports") was never directly placed in a posting. In 2002, such an upload would have been rather long post, but in 2017 (fifteen years later?!?-- yikes!) it's not so long at all, and I'm going to post it here so that it can be found easier in future searches. I think the next time I visit Ward, I'll bring this adapter idea up to him. We usually get together a few times a year, and somehow, someway (no matter how much we think it's not gonna happen) the Arcadia comes up. About the Arcadia 2001 family's rear auxiliary controller ports by Ward Shrake November 21, 2002 Filename: arc_port.txt There has been some discussions lately about the "left and right auxiliary controller jacks" on the rear of Arcadia family consoles. Hopefully, this will answer all questions, or at least eliminate impossible situations from further consideration. I opened up my Leisure-Vision yesterday evening, as promised, and got out my trusty voltmeter. Here is the verified, non-guess version of what the small expansion ports are or do, on the Arcadia family of consoles. The first thing you have to understand is that there are only TWO WIRES connected to each individual port. With only two wires, these ports can not do much at all. With only two wires hooked to anything inside, all that can be hooked up is a potentiometer -- in other words, a paddle controller. And by that, I mean a BARE paddle... not even a paddle and a fire button. There is absolutely no way in heck that another set of controllers can be added, like the ones that the console already has in place from the factory. Please take my word on it, and eliminate those possibilities from further consideration. Yes, it does look at first like there are three places that wires can go, if you open up a console and just glance at the outsides of these small sockets. However, if you look inside the socket itself, and verify what you see with a meter, you will find out that the third wire is not what it first appears to be. The bottomline is that there are only two wires going to the PC board. Not three, not four, not ten; just two wires. These sockets, by the way, are the kind that are made for audio plugs, such as you might expect to see on headphones for a walkman, for instance. (Except in mono, not in stereo.) I am not an expert on dedicated Pong systems, but I believe that a number of Pong-style paddles likely once existed, that used these plugs, making it all the more likely that that is what the designers originally had in mind. I for sure had an old Sears Pong machine at one time, that had paddles with audio plugs. (The raw connectors are still readily available, for today's do-it-yourself tech guys.) WIRING The RING connection (the long body of the audio plug, but not the tip of it) goes directly to the five volts supply on the main circuit board. And by directly I mean just that; both RING connections are wired to the output leg of a 7805 five volt regulator. The TIP connection on the incoming plug is wired directly to the existing controller ports, at the back side of the internal connector that allows the controllers to be unplugged from the main circuit board. (While the controllers appear to be hard-wired to the board, from the outside of the console, that is not technically true. You may have to open the console's plastic case, and then also remove the heavy RF shielding surrounding the main circuit board, but they can then be unplugged.) Tracing the wiring inside the controller, it appears the middle (sixth from either side) connection of a small PC board inside the upper end of the controller, is where the TIP connection ends up. (Although it is on the fourth wire on the back of the place where the controller plugs into the main PC board, but on opposite sides of each port; 4th from the right on the right side, 4th from the left on the left side. Apparently, they paid their Assembly Chimps to put up with the funky hand-wiring necessary. I guess this makes sense, as the main components of the controllers could be made with a single, reusable set of parts, with hand-wiring making the finished controller be a "left" or "right" side controller. Anyway.) Tracing things further, we find that the middle or sixth wire on the small controller port PC board goes directly to the delicate, printed circuit traces on the clear plastic sheet parts of the controller's innards. It ends up being connected to a place on the directional controller or joystick, ignoring the fire buttons and keypad entirely. The delicate printed circuit trace is part of the circuitry that figures out if a person is trying to move to the left or the right. It is hard to describe, without a picture, but there are three sheets with traces. The bottom sheet has metallic traces facing upwards. There is a middle sheet, with shaped holes or cut-outs that help sheild some areas while leaving others exposed. A top sheet has downward-facing traces. When the user presses or moves something on their controller, it makes the top and bottom sheets touch one another, so that two wires touch internally. They made and folded each sheet in such a way that they act like a spring, naturally staying apart from one another, unless the user forces them to join, momentarily. (Pretty clever, actually!) What does that leave us with? A confusing mess, since so far, as the main and rear controllers seem to be fighting to do each other's jobs. This is where that mysterious third wire comes in, on the rear auxilliary ports. The THIRD WIRE is apparently a switch, of sorts, to determine which controller will be in charge of allowing the user to move something to the left or the right. The THIRD WIRE is permanently connected to the RING connection, at the rear socket, through a 150,000 ohm (or 150k ohm) fixed-value resistor. (Looks like 1/4 watt, with a gold band or 5 percent tolerance, and both measured well on mine.) From there, the THIRD WIRE can either be shorted to the TIP or left electrically disconnected, depending on whether or not an audio plug has been inserted into the rear sockets. (The TIP has spring pressure, so it touches the THIRD wire until the audio plug physically moves it out of the way, breaking that connection.) It is not always shorted, or it would not be much of a switch. It only connects TIP and RING (through the resistor) when nothing is plugged into the rear ports. So if there is nothing plugged into the rear ports, then 150k ohms of resistance will always appear at the "left / right" part of the main controller's circuit. (Emulator authors take note: I say "left / right part" because on the bottom sheet of mylar-with-circuit-traces, they are paired electrically. There is a single "left / right" connection that faces upwards, along with two seperate "up" and "down" wires, for a total of three actual wires on the bottom sheet. On the upper plastic sheet, are two more wires, both of which are part of an electrical pair. The upper sheet's "up" and "left" wires are one connected pair, while the "down" and "right" wires are similarly connected to each other. So the upper sheet only has two actual wires, for a total of five wires, making up the directional circuit. Note that this is arranged totally unlike the common Atari-style joysticks, with "up, down, left, right, and ground". This odd way of doing things probably has something to do with the odd error or glitch that Paul Robson had, when he wrote the first Arcadia 2001 emulator, where he said in his instructions that the directions sometimes seemed to change axis' on him? He never saw an actual console, as he wrote his emu from game source code, alone.) The THIRD WIRE is not shorted to the TIP, when there is an audio plug in the rear sockets. The TIP physically moves away from the THIRD WIRE, making "no connection" there. Instead, the TIP runs directly into the main controller's circuit board, without any interference, so it's input will be read as controller movement. When an appropriately-sized audio plug is inserted into the rear port, the RING portion is connected directly to the five volts source. The THIRD WIRE is not connected to anything, and the 150k ohm resister only has one end hooked up to anything, so it is technically not in the circuit at all, any more. It just "isn't there". So far, with just an imaginary audio plug inserted, we do not have a complete circuit yet. It is presumed that the RING wire and the TIP wire, coming off of the audio plug, is then hooked up to a length of cable, with a potentiometer wired between them. At that point, we would have positive five volts running out through the RING, through the external potientimeter, and back to the main controller port output circuits, where it would be interpreted and acted upon. SUMMARY AND CLOSING THOUGHTS So, to sum up: if nothing is inserted into the rear ports, the overall circuitry is set to make the main controller ports "see" a ghost 150k ohm "potentiometer" or paddle hooked up, but not moving. If something is hooked up through the rear ports, then the ghost 150k ohm paddle goes away, leaving the real one in charge, instead. I can only assume the designers would presume that if a paddle was in use, that the main controller would not be in use, so no "left / right" buttons would be pressed on that, then leaving the paddle controller completely in charge of moving left and right. Before I forget to mention it: I did also confirm that the joysticks in the Arcadia family are only 8-way sticks, not the 16-way sticks some folks thought they might be. This is easily verified by tracing out the wiring inside a controller. Only five wires total are a part of the joystick portion of the controller. With five wires, you can not have more than an indication of up, down, left, right, along with one wire to complete the circuit. You can also have the four diagonals that occur when two of the initial directions are touched simultaneously, but beyond that, there isn't enough wiring present inside, no matter how you hook it up inside. Any 16-way joystick would need far more wiring. What value of a potentiometer is needed, to make a rear port paddle for the Arcadia family? We're working on that. 150k is a good place to start experimenting, since that is the value of the fixed resistor that is being "seen" by the controller's upstream movement interpretation circuits, whenever no paddle is hooked up to the rear ports. (Whether this is a "middle" or "end" position is not yet known for sure, but experimenting with individual games could help to determine it. Better paranoid than smug, I always say, so I prefer to do some testing.) If any of you dedicated Pong guys have paddles like this, you may want to measure their pot's resistance? This may also give us a solid clue as to why certain games act so oddly, at times? If games were originally written with a potentiometer-joystick in mind, but were later given a digital, limited-positioning button-based joystick as input instead, well, of course they would "malfunction". But since most of us have little or no experience with more than the one console we own, figuring all of this out takes much time! I guess we need to start looking into this more, if we want certain games to work well, on any one of the semi-compatible families of consoles within this console group. If nothing else, some of the Palladium-type games would likely work better on the Arcadia family, but we may also learn more and improve emulation efforts. #2434 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 15:48:34 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Plans: Atari Joystick Adapter on Arcadia 2001 From: James Jacobs They seem to only be analog for MPT-03 and similar machines. On an actual Emerson Arcadia 2001, they are digital and I have observed the following typical values: Left/top Centred Right/bottom P1PADDLEX: $07 $68 $FE P1PADDLEY: $00 $70/$71 $FE P2PADDLEX: $07 $63/$64 $FE P2PADDLEY: $00 $69/$6A $FE Hence it is not surprising that Circus was only available for MPT-03. #2435 Date: Sun, 19 Mar 2017 13:58:26 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Plans: Atari Joystick Adapter on Arcadia 2001 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >They seem to only be analog for MPT-03 and similar machines. On an actual Emerson Arcadia 2001, they are digital. Wait, so then an Atari 2600 adapter could be created... I'll have to look into this! #2436 Date: Mon, 20 Mar 2017 14:05:17 +0100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Plans: Atari Joystick Adapter on Arcadia 2001 From: Dennis Spreen >They seem to only be analog for MPT-03 and similar machines. the palladium uses analog controllers, too #2437 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 14:09:24 +0000 Subject: Space Mission Manual From: Adam Trionfo Yesterday a friend of mine showed me Space Mission on the Arcadia 2001. The game can be beat in under a minute-- then, what... is it just over?!? For this game's sake, I hoped that the manual would shed more details, but I couldn't find it anyplace. Can anyone please point out the manual for Space Mission? #2438 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2017 01:16:49 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Mission Manual From: James Jacobs It's at https://amigan.yatho.com/#manuals #2439 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:16:11 +0000 Subject: Is Space Mission Fun?; was: Space Mission Manual From: Adam Trionfo Thanks to James for the link to the MPT-03 manual for Space Mission. Someone also sent me an email with a zip of the manual too-- it seems to have come from this link. I read the Space Mission manual. I'm surprised that there isn't more to this game. It's SO short at only two minutes long, no matter what. If you win, then your game is even shorter. Did anyone on this group own this game and enjoy playing it back in the 1980s? The graphics are fine. The gameplay is, well, acceptable. Nothing is really WRONG with the game... except, where the heck is the rest of it?!? It's like the game ends when it should just be beginning! You've assembled the ship, that should be Mission 1. Mission 2 should be to do SOMETHING (anything!) with that ship, but it's not to be! Also, Space Mission was released for the Arcadia 2001, right? Is there a scan of that manual available? For that matter, have all the Arcadia 2001 manuals been scanned in? If so, then where? #2440 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 03:19:32 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Is Space Mission Fun?; was: Space Mission Manual From: James Jacobs >Also, Space Mission was released for the Arcadia 2001, right? Yes. >Is there a scan of that manual available? No. >For that matter, have all the Arcadia 2001 manuals been scanned in? No. >If so, then where? The manuals collection at http://amigan.yatho.com is as complete as I was able to make it; AFAIK there are no other manual scans floating around on the Internet although I haven't checked lately. These 32 games have at least one scan available, not necessarily for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 though: 3D Bowling, Alien Invader, American Football, Astro Invader, Baseball, Basketball, Blackjack/Poker, Boxing, Brain Quiz, Breakaway, Capture, Cat Trax, Combat, Dictionary, Doraemon, Dr. Slump, Escape, Funky Fish, Missile War, Nibblemen/Devilman/Super Gobbler, Ocean Battle, Parashooter, R2D Tank, Soccer, Space Attack, Space Mission, Space Raiders, Space Vultures, Spiders, Super Bug, Tanks a Lot, The End Some of those games (eg. Doraemon) don't have any English manual as they were never released in an English-speaking territory, and no one has translated them (yet!). These 5 games have only ASCII versions of the manual available: Crazy Climber, Horse Racing, Monaco Grand Prix, Space Squadron, Star Chess These 18 manuals are completely unavailable: 3D Attack, 3D Soccer, Auto Race, Battle, Circus, Crazy Gobbler, Golf, Grand Slam Tennis, Hobo, Jump Bug, Jungler, Mobile Soldier Gundam, Pleiades, Red Clash, Robot Killer, Route 16, Super Dimension Fortress Macross, Turtles/Turpin It's rather disappointing as I suspect many of our members might have some of these manuals, for the more common games at least. It would be greatly appreciated if anyone reading this could scan their manuals to help the community. #2441 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 18:30:52 +0000 Subject: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?): was; Is Space Mission Fun? From: Adam Trionfo It has been quite some time since I pulled out and used original carts on my Arcadia 2001. James got me into the mood, so I decided to see what I have, and wouldn't you know it-- I own the original Space Mission game, complete with the box and manual for the Arcadia 2001. After looking at the Arcadia 2001 manual, the MPT-03 version of the Space Mission manual is much better than the Arcadia version. Next week, I can scan any Arcadia boxes, manuals, carts or overlays that I own. Here's my Arcadia collection: Arcadia 2001 Misc: 1) Emerson Arcadia 2001 Cartridge Order Forms (16 carts for $9.95 each!) 2) Emerson Arcadia 2001 Owner's Manual 3) Emerson Arcadia 2001 Warranty Leaflet Arcadia 2001 Games: 1) Baseball - Box, Manual, 1 Overlay, Cart (short) 2) Capture - Box, Manual, 2 Overlays, Cart (short) 3) Cat Trax - Box (Crushed), Manual, 2 Overlays, Cart (long) 4) Escape - Box, Manual, 2 Overlays, Cart (long) 5) Space Attack - Box, Manual, Cart (long) 6) Space Mission - Box, Manual, 1 Overlay, Cart (short) 7) Space Raiders - Box, Manual, 2 Overlays, Cart (long) 8) Tanks A Lot - Box, Manual, 2 Overlays, Cart (long) MPT-03 Collection: 1) American Football - Box, Manual, overlays (no cart) 2) Baseball - Box, Manual, overlays (no cart) 3) MPT-03 Console Instruction Booklet Oh, and I have the Ward Shrake Multicart too, if that's needed for anything. James, is there anything here that you'd like to see scanned? #2442 Date: 22 Apr 2017 20:11:03 +0000 Subject: Any new game ROMs available? From: hdk2000hdk@... I'm in the midst of making some more Arcadia multicarts. Details here for the unfamiliar: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/189779-arcadia-2001-multicart-2011-version-any-interest/page-10#entry2869225 I'm wondering if there are any new game ROM dumps available, since the middle of 2012. #2443 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2017 16:34:49 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Any new game ROMs available? From: markwcanon@... I have 3d attack cib. I believe it's the only known undumped original game. If someone is in chicago area that can help dump it or if someone wants to send me a dumper I am happy to dump it. #2444 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:29:19 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?): was; Is Space Mission Fun? From: James Jacobs Here's the list of what's currently available for those games on those platforms, ie. the "N" ones have no photo/scan currently available at all. "Box" and "cart" just refer to the front of the box/cart; in some cases scans of the back/sides/etc. are also available but generally not, I can provide a list of those too if interested. Also note that the quality and resolution of some of the existing photos/scans is not very high. Emerson: BOX MAN OVERLAY CART Baseball Y N N Y Capture Y N N Y Cat Trax Y Y Y Y Escape Y Y N Y Space Attack Y N N Y Space Mission Y N N Y Space Raiders Y Y Y Y Tanks a Lot Y Y N Y MPT03: BOX MAN OVERLAY CART Console N Y Y n/a American Football Y N N N Baseball Y Y Y Y All currently available box/overlay/cart photos/scans can be found in the Boxes Pack, Overlays Pack and Cartridges Pack at http://amigan.yatho.com/#packs #2445 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:37:36 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Any new game ROMs available? From: James Jacobs >I'm wondering if there are any new game ROM dumps available, since the middle of 2012. No, AFAIK nothing has been dumped since then and no new homebrews have been written either. >I have 3d attack cib. I believe it's the only known undumped original game. Yes, that is correct to the best of my knowledge. >If someone is in chicago area that can help dump it or if someone wants to send me a dumper I am happy to dump it. Alas, I cannot help with that, as the only dumpers I know are outside of the Chicago area :-( It would be awesome to get it dumped; that would complete the dumping of all confirmed Arcadia (ie. Signetics 2637 UVI-based) and Interton (ie. Signetics 2636 PVI-based) console family carts. Scans of the manual/cart/overlays/box would be great too, there is nothing available concerning this game except a couple of screenshots AFAIK. #2446 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:35:48 +0000 Subject: Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >Here's the list of what's currently available for those games on those platforms Okay, I'll scan everything you asked for on the list on unscanned items for the Arcadia and MPT-03. I'll being working on this scanning over the coming week. I'm really surprised that this hasn't been done yet. The poor Arcadia, it gets no love! I usually scan everything for BallyAlley.com at 300dpi and save as TIFF (before making copies in jpg format). James, I can scan at any resolution that you like. Since I'll be sharing the files with you, maybe saving the files as PNG format might be better. Whatever format that you want, James, just ask and I'll take care of it. I wonder if it's time to make a master list of the Arcadia boxes/carts/manuals/overlays that need to be scanned? #2447 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 15:51:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Any new game ROMs available? From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >It would be awesome to get [3D Attack] dumped; that would complete the dumping of all confirmed Arcadia (ie. Signetics 2637 UVI-based) and Interton (ie. Signetics 2636 PVI-based) console family carts. 3D Attack is supposed to be a Zaxxon clone if I remember correctly. Is it any good? What territory was it released in-- and why is it so rare? Was it a really late release-- or just plain bad? >Scans of the manual/cart/overlays/box would be great too, there is nothing available concerning this game except a couple of screenshots I just looked for screenshots of the game and couldn't find any. I suppose, of course, that they're somewhere on your website, James. #2448 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:44:24 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: James Jacobs >3D Attack is supposed to be a Zaxxon clone if I remember correctly. Yes. >What territory was it released in? It was released in Italy. >Is it any good? -- and why is it so rare? Was it a really late release-- or just plain bad? I don't know. >I just looked for screenshots of the game and couldn't find any. I suppose, of course, that they're somewhere on your website, James. Yes, in the Screenshots Pack. >I usually scan everything for BallyAlley.com at 300dpi and save as TIFF (before making copies in jpg format). James, I can scan at any resolution that you like. Since I'll be sharing the files with you, maybe saving the files as PNG format might be better. Whatever format that you want, James, just ask and I'll take care of it. Thanks, 300 dpi should probably be enough unless other people here think 600 dpi is necessary. PNG is probably best unless the file sizes are really huge. >I wonder if it's time to make a master list of the Arcadia boxes/carts/manuals/overlays that need to be scanned? I can do that, might take a few days though, since there are so many variants of the system. #2449 Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 22:59:22 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: markwcanon@... Yes, it was released by gig for the Leonardo in italy. It may have had a home arcade release as well. Home arcade releases seem to be released in various areas but in tiny quantities. The home arcade I believe is the true parent system for the whole arcadia family. I believe it was the unit actually made by UAL themselves who also made all the games besides the 4 bandai exclusives. Universal Appliances Limited. I believe they just made deals with anybody at all who was interested to make a clone because they had no luck at all marketing it themselves. I believe emerson is just another company who decided to do a release and they have nothing else to do with the system other than probably being 1 of the more successful companies that distributed it. If you can call any of them successful. Zaxxon is not good and I believe the last game made probably after 3d soccer. They probably were working toward more 3d type line of games right before folding. Similar to what tomy tutor did. Like I said if anyone wants to send me a dumper I am happy to dump it and pay to send it back. I just dumped 2 of the last 3 known missing rca s2 games this last year. #2450 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:15:09 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: Kevin Bunch I've got a handful of Leisure-Vision boxed games that could be scanned in, if they're not done yet. A few of the boxes got scratched up in a previous move, but for the most part they're intact. Alien Invaders, Capture, Missile War, Space Vultures and Star Chess. The only snag is that the scanner I have ready access to is at the office, so they'd have to get bounced around on the bus and train to get scanned! #2451 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2017 13:17:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Is Space Mission Fun?; was: Space Mission Manual From: Kevin Bunch If anyone can scan in the Japanese game manuals at a decent dpi, I know a few people who could (and would) translate them. #2452 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:20:41 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 1: Baseball From: Adam Trionfo I have started scanning in my Arcadia 2001 collection. I'm doing this in alphabetical order, so the first thing I've scanned is Baseball. You can download all the Baseball scans on Archive.org: https://archive.org/details/Baseball1982EmersonArcadia2001Scans It took me a couple of hours to scan everything just for Baseball, so this scan of my Arcadia collection might take several weeks of me working on it here and there when I have the time. Here's the description of Baseball everything that I uploaded to Archive.org: Baseball for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. Released in 1982. This archive includes 300dpi scans of the box, manual, overlay and warranty sheet for Baseball. The files in this archive are: 1) Baseball (1982)(Manual)(Emerson Arcadia 2001).pdf - An OCR'ed document of the 8-page manual. 2) Baseball manual scans in grayscale: 2-1) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Manual_01 - Front Cover).png 2-2) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Manual_02).png 2-3) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Manual_03).png 2-4) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Manual_04).png 2-5) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Manual_05).png 2-6) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Manual_06).png 2-7) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Manual_07).png 2-8) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Manual_08).png 3) Box - Three scans of the box and one picture of the box open. 3-1) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Box Scan_01 - Front).png 3-2) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Box Scan_02 - Back).png 3-3) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Box Scan_03 - Edge).png 3-4) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Box Scan_04 - Gatefold Open).jpg 4) Cart Scan 4-1) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Keypad Overlay_01).png 4-2) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Keypad Overlay_02).png 5) Overlays - Even though both overlays are identical, I scanned them both. 5-1) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Cart Scan_01 - Front).png 5-2) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Cart Scan_02 - Back).png 6) Baseball (Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Warranty Sheet)_01.png - Warranty Sheet Here are is the information from the back of the Baseball box: Baseball Video Game Cartridge For Use Only with the Arcadian 2001 By Emerson Two Player Game (Uses Both Controllers) - Two controller overlays guide players - All outfielders, hitter, pitcher and runner can be individually controlled. - Infielders are controlled by the computer - Second scene appears for ball hit to outfield - Defensive player can move any outfielder to catch or pick up the ball and "throw out" the base runner - The offensive player can move his runner around the bases, stop at first or "try for a double" - A "home run" can be hit by the batter - Strikes and balls are called - The pitcher can throw a slow, fast, change of pace, inside or outside curve ball - Plays just like the real game - "Batter up" James, take a look at these files. Does this work for you? #2453 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 09:50:48 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia Scans, Part 1: Baseball From: James Jacobs Yes, that's great, thank you Adam! I have now also uploaded them to the EA2001 Central site. #2454 Date: 28 Apr 2017 03:04:27 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: ssjbrollyus@... I can see if I can get you some help to get the game dumped, that would certainly be great. Can you confirm if the pinout and cart slots of the Leonardo games are the same as the Emerson ones? I believe they are, but not 100% sure. Also do you know if the chips used for the long and short cart shells/PCBs are the same ones or does the long ones include any extra chips? I think 3D Attack uses a long shell right? I don't own any Arcadia game, but I would be willing to buy a couple of carts to have this figured out so a dumper can be made. Easiest (and less intrusive) way would be to make an adapter that plugs into the cart pins and then to an EPROM reader, but do you own an EPROM reader or would you need a dumper that includes the reader (could be an EPROM reader or arduino based for ex.). Is it possible to open the cart to verify the pinout/wiring or does it need the sticker to be removed? If it's not possible there would be some guesswork involved, unless someone with experience dumping Arcadia carts could confirm that the pinout and chips used are the same for all games. btw what were the 2 studio2 games you dumped? I know one was bingo, what about the other one? #2455 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 23:56:40 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: markwcanon@... Yes leonardo carts are the same as emerson carts. Same pinout, fully compatible. Don't know if long and short carts use same amount of chips. 3d attack is a long cart. Harvey should know this...he made the current multicarts. Or maybe someone else here knows? I don't own an EPROM reader. But I have an arduino on loan set up for dumping the rca s2 carts. Don't know what it would entail to set it up for arcadia. But yes an adapter to plug the cart in would be needed. Can't open the cart as it has stickers, not going to damage it to open. But somewhere I have pics of the inside of someone else's 3d attack cart. Have to see if I can locate them. The other studio 2 cart I dumped was the demo cart. Only the tester cart is now known to be missing/undumped. I will also be dumping 2 more visicom games soon ;) #2456 Date: 28 Apr 2017 10:34:38 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: ssjbrollyus@... I'll see what I can do, would be easier if you owned an EPROM reader, but I'll try to reach someone that might be able to dump it through an Arduino. If you have pictures of the inside then that would definitely help a lot since we could be sure about what's in there and compare it against others. I'll buy a couple of long carts meanwhile, we will need at least one to dump it in order to get things working :) Seems I missed the news about the studio2 demo cart somehow, nice one. Would be great to have more Visicom stuff preserved, there's still only 1 game dumped so far right? #2457 Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2017 21:19:28 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: markwcanon@... I don't mind buying an EPROM reader if it wasn't terribly expensive. And I would need guidance on what to buy and how to use it. I managed to find the pics of 3d attack. I think it looks different than other games boards. I will attach the pics here...hopefully that works to do on a group mail. Yes, only 1 visicom game is still dumped. I have 2 more and a dumper made to dump them specifically...just need to get to it. Hmmm....can't seem to attach the photos to this email...I will try and send them to you directly. #2458 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 16:06:45 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 2: MPT-03 Master Console User Manual (Spanish) From: Adam Trionfo I have scanned the Spanish version of the MPT-03 Master Console User Manual. I thought I bought this console from Canada, so I expected the manual to be in French. Maybe I've forgotten where I got the console (which I actually don't have anymore; Ward has it). The six-age manual is available in OCRed pdf and PNG format. You can download it here: https://archive.org/details/MPT03MasterConsoleManualSpanish00FrontCover Little by little I'll scan in the small collection that I have. Here is the description for this manual that I made for Archive.org: MPT-03 Master Console User Manual (Spanish) The MPT-03 console is part of the "Arcadia 2001 console group," which is a misnomer for a group of consoles that are based around the Signetics 2650 CPU and 2637 UVI (Universal Video Interface). This manual is in Spanish. I used Google Translate to make a rough translation of the first page of the manual: The system you just bought is one of the most expensive home viewing equipment. It consists of the Master Console MPT-03 and a number of cartridges for different games, which can be played on your TV. The latest advances in microtechnology have made it possible for this system to incorporate an extensive memory, which enables it to play a series of complicated games that require skill, speed of reflexes and coordination between mind and hands. The games are presented with a wide range of colors, and are accompanied by realistic sound effects. At this time, your system does not incorporate yet other features Other than the game. However, practical applications of computing such as financial management, communications, data processing, etc. are already under development and will be available in the near future. Read the following instructions carefully to avoid any accidental damage to the console or cartridges. I'll scan in the Arcadia 2001 manual next. Mine is in pretty rough shape, so it will have to be clean-up a little bit. That's for next week. #2459 Date: 30 Apr 2017 03:45:29 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: ssjbrollyus@... You can probably get a decent reader that can dump arcadia carts for around $40 or so, but let's figure things out first :) Yeah please email me those pics directly. #2460 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 23:53:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: markwcanon@... Cool, yeah I don't mind spending $40 on a reader if it makes it easier. I am having trouble doing any photo attachments on my phone. Don't know what's up. I will try a couple different ways. #2461 Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2017 23:57:05 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: My Arcadia 2001 Collection (Scans Needed?) From: markwcanon@... Hmmm....restarted my phone and it seems to work to add pics. Let me know you got them. ;) #2462 Date: 30 Apr 2017 11:49:07 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Mission Manual From: ssjbrollyus@... I got them thanks, but are they really only 72KB (425x319)? At that dimension they aren't of much use I'm afraid since it's pretty hard to see any details. Hopefully it will be similar to another long cart PCB, I'll need to buy one first to verify. #2463 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2017 23:23:24 -0500 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Any new game ROMs available? From: "Russ Perry Jr." Sorry for the late response, I've been away, but... On Apr 22, 2017, at 3:34 PM, markwcanon@... [arcadia2001consoles] wrote: >I have 3d attack cib. >I believe it's the only known undumped original game. >If someone is in chicago area that can help dump it or if someone wants to send me a >dumper I am happy to dump it. Have you contacted Sean Kelly by chance? He might be able to dump it, maybe. #2464 Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 02:05:07 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Any new game ROMs available? From: markwcanon@... Yes I asked sean a few years ago and he said he could not dump arcadia games. He didnt seem to have any interest in it either :D hehe Thanks for the idea though ;) #2465 Date: Mon, 1 May 2017 17:40:37 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 3: Emerson Arcadia 2001 User's Manual From: Adam Trionfo James didn't specifically ask for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Owner's Manual, but he did say that older scans weren't in a high-resolution. For this reason, I scanned the manual and paperwork that came with the Arcadia 2001: 1) The Arcadia-2001 Owner's Manual by Emerson - Included an OCRed pdf, plus eight 300-dpi PNG files of each page. 2) Warranty Sheet 3) Cartridge Order Form - This order form is for fourteen Arcadia 2001 cartridges at discount prices ($9.95 each). I'm not sure if this came with the system, but it came with my system when I bought in on Ebay from an owner in Georgia, USA. You can download these files here: https://archive.org/details/Arcadia2001OwnersManual When I was OCRing the Owner's Manual, I was quite surprised at how many typos were in the original document. Mostly, I left them in there. I really think that this system was released on the cheap! More Arcadia scans to come this week. Adam P.S. Here is a short description of the Emerson Arcadia from page four of the Owner's Manual. I didn't realize that the paddle jacks (that were never used) were actually mentioned in the manual. Emerson Arcadia 2001 Model No. ADV-1 Introduction Welcome to the wonderful world of the micro-computer EMERSON ARCADIA-2001. This micro-computer will bring you endless hours of fun at home with additional cartridges available at your EMERSON dealer. General This micro-computer is designed to play games on Color or Black and White TV sets. The Video Game player will operate on either channel 3 or 4 on any TV set. A slide switch located on the rear of the unit will select the channel for operation. An Antenna Switch box is provided to select Video Game or local TV programs. An AC adapter is included to supply Power to the micro-computer. This Adapter should be plugged into a conveniently located AC Outlet having 120 Volt 60 Hz Only, and the long wire with a DC Power Plug should be connected into the DC JACK located on the rear of the unit. Two Joy Sticks are provided separately, so that they may be mounted onto the Control Disc to convert the Hand Controller to a "JOYSTICK" type controller. Screw in the stick to mount it and screw out to remove it. Two JACKS located on the rear of the unit can be connected with two additional Hand Controllers (not included) for future games. #2466 Date: Tue, 2 May 2017 21:02:23 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 4: Capture From: Adam Trionfo I've scanned my material from Capture. This is the game of Reversi, also known as Othello. Here are the game's details from the back of the box: Capture Video Game Cartridge For Use Only with the Arcadia-2001 By Emerson - One or two player game - Two controller overlays guide players - Try to beat the computer or play against an opponent - You can also set the game to "play against the clock” - You can give or take a "time" handicap - This is a game of determination, concentration and skill - Exciting and fun to play - For all the family (C) UA Ltd. 1982. If I read the back of the box in 1982 or so, I wouldn't be too inspired to play it! The archive includes 300-dpi PNG scans of: 1) Box - Front, Back, Edge, Gatefold opened 2) Cartridge - Front, Back, End-Label 2) Manual - 8 PNG files and one OCRed pdf. 3) Overlays - Both of them You can download the scans and pdf here: https://archive.org/details/CapturefortheEmersonArcadia2001 I've read that some people believe that the Arcadia 2001 box art is among the worst ever made. I can't say if that's true (probably not), but the crazy looking lady on this box did inspire me. I've attached a picture of what I think she may be saying to the person on the phone. #2467 Date: Thu, 4 May 2017 18:30:29 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 5: Cat Trax From: Adam Trionfo I've scanned my material from the game Cat Trax. This is probably my favorite game released for the Emerson Arcade 2001. It has solid control and is fun to play. This archive includes scans of the box, manual, overlays and cartridge for the game Cat Trax for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. In Cat Trax, three dogs chase a cat around a maze. In this game, you have the ability to somewhat control the maze by opening and closing gates using the keypad on the Arcadia's controller. You can also turn the tables on the dog by turning into a dogcatcher. Here are the game's details from the back of the box: Cat Trax Video Game Cartridge For Use Only with the Arcadia-2001 by Emerson One player game (Uses left side controller) - It's a dog gone "cat chasing" - The cat will turn the tables and become a "dog catcher" when he eats the fish - When caught the dog is sent to the doghouse - Hurry and clean up the catnip while the dogs are in the doghouse - Get extra points by eating the apple when it appears - Close and open the gates to block the dogs - "Warp" the cat out of danger - Eat all the catnip and a second, more difficult game reappears - "Freeze" the game whenever it is necessary to hold action as long as you "unfreeze" the game to resume the action - Highest score remains on screen so next player can challenge - Great sound and color - Fun for all the family (C) UA Ltd. 1982. The archive includes 300-dpi PNG scans of: 1) Box - Front, Back, Edge, Gatefold opened 2) Cartridge - Front, Back, End-Label 2) Manual - 8 PNG files and one OCRed pdf. 3) Overlays - Both of them You can download the scans and pdf here: https://archive.org/details/CatTraxfortheArcadia2001 My box for Cat Trax was both a bit smashed and quite dirty. I cleaned the box as best I could using soap and water, and then some Windex. The scans turned out better than I expected. #2468 Date: Sat, 6 May 2017 17:32:25 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 5: Escape From: Adam Trionfo I have added scans of the box, manual, overlays and cartridge for the game Escape for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. Escape is a clone of the 1980 Arcade game Berzerk by Stern Electronics. You can download it all from archive.org, here: https://archive.org/details/EscapeVideogameforEmersonArcadia2001 Here are the game's details from the back of the Arcadia 2001 box: Escape Video Game Cartridge For use only with the Arcadia-2001 by Emerson One Player Game (Uses Left Side Controller) - You are caught in a maze and must get out before "they" get you - Watch out for the "electric" walls - Watch out as "they" shoot at you - Watch out for the "spinner" - Run for your life and shoot from the hip - Destroy "them" and you will get points - Escape after destroying all of "them" and get a bonus - Then another more difficult maze appears - "Freeze" the game whenever it is necessary to hold action as long as you "unfreeze" the game to resume the action - Highest score remains on screen so next player can challenge - Great sound and color - Fun for all the family (C) UA Ltd. 1982. Escape has terrible cover art. I just recently read The Art of Atari. In that book there are rough sketches of cover art for various Atari products. Many of those rough sketches look more finished than what shipped as "completed" art for this Arcadia game. Plus, if you look at the art for Escape, doesn't it make you think of a Pac-Man game rather than a Berzerk clone? I've now scanned half of the eight titles from my Arcadia 2001 collection. Things are moving along... #2469 Date: Tue, 9 May 2017 17:42:09 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 6: Space Attack From: Adam Trionfo I have uploaded to Archive.org scans of the box, manual, a page of supplementary instructions (which seem to replace the overlays in this game) and the cartridge for the game Space Attack for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. Space Attack is a clone of the 1979 arcade game Galaxian by Namco. You can view all of the scans here: https://archive.org/details/SpaceAttackforEmersonArcadia2001 Here are the game's details from the back of the Arcadia 2001 box: Space Attack Video Game Cartridge For use only with the Arcadia-2001 by Emerson One player game (Uses Right Side Controller) - Try your evasive action skill to stop the space craft rocketing to destroy you - You have three missile launchers to "wipe" them out - Different skill levels - See the space craft "peel off" and zero onto your missile launcher - Also you must avoid a "rain" of rockets - Hurry to destroy all enemy space craft in each armada, as you will be running out of fuel: watch the fuel gauge - Destroy all the space craft and another faster armada appears - A bonus missile launcher to be granted for scoring reaches 5,000 points - Great action, color and sound effects - Highest score remains on screen so next player can challenge - Fun for all the family (C) UA Ltd. 1982. I never noticed before today that Space Attack has two ships from Star Wars on the box art: a snowspeeder and the Millennium Falcon. Normally games would rip-off the tie-fighter and X-Wing, so this borrowing of ideas from the Star Wars universe is *almost* original! #2470 Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 18:23:33 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 7: Space Mission From: Adam Trionfo I have uploaded to archive.org scans of the box, manual, overlay and cartridge for the game Space Mission for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. In this timed game, you have two minutes to build a space station from four pieces that are floating around in space. You can download the material here: https://archive.org/details/SpaceMissionEmersonArcadia2001 Here are the game's details from the back of the box: Space Mission Video Game Cartridge For Use Only with the Arcadia-2001 by Emerson One player game (Uses left side controller) One controller overlay guides play Object is to assemble a space ship in space You are the pilot in the cockpit and your ship is trying to assemble four pieces of a space ship You are racing against time - you have two minutes to complete the mission. You are avoiding deadly rockets from enemy spaceships You can call for another scene to tell you where you are in time and space If you get "hit" you must re-launch Excellent sound effects and color This is a test of skill vs time Fun for the "astronauts" (C) UA Ltd. 1982. This was the game that started me scanning my Arcadia manuals and packaging in the first place, so it's nice to have this one online. As I examine these Arcadia 2001 boxes and manuals, the more I see that the printed material was really created on the cheap. This includes B&W manuals that are full of typos. Was the packaging for other systems based around this MPT-03 architecture also done cheaply, or did these other systems get higher-quality packaging? #2471 Date: Wed, 10 May 2017 14:37:56 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia Scans, Part 7: Space Mission From: markwcanon@... The silver box games by far have the nicest boxes of any arcadia variants. There are 41 variant systems I have documented. And I won't be surprised to find more :) #2472 Date: Thu, 11 May 2017 20:22:21 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 8: Space Raiders From: Adam Trionfo I have added scans of the box, manual, overlays and cartridge for the game Space Raiders for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. You can download these from Archive.org, here: https://archive.org/details/SpaceRaidersEmersonArcadia2001 This game seems to have been inspired by Williams 1981 arcade game, Defender. Unlike many Arcadia 2001 games, Space Raiders doesn't seem to be a direct copy of that game, but there are too many similarities for them to be overlooked. I can confidentially say that Space Raiders wouldn't exist without Defender. An odd touch is that Space Raiders takes place in space, but the box-art shows jets and helicopters, which don't seem to be in the game. Here are the game's details from the back of the box: Space Raiders Video Game Cartridge For Use Only with the Arcadia-2001 by Emerson One Player Game (Uses Left Side Controller) - Your mission: destroy the intruders - Drop your bombs to knock out the ground based missiles, this will allow you to land for re-energizing - Watch out for the "flying saucers", "mutants" and also the "missiles" from the launching bases - Destroy them for points - You can maneuver your spacefighter in any direction - Be careful you don't run out of fuel - "Freeze" the game whenever it is necessary to hold action as long as you "unfreeze" the game to resume the action - Highest score remains on screen so next player can challenge - Great sound and color - Fun for all the family (C) UA Ltd. 1982. I only have one more Arcadia 2001 game to scan: Tanks A Lot. After that, I have the MPT-03 games American Football and Baseball to scan. I have the boxes, overlays, and manuals for these two games, but not the cartridges. I gave these two MPT-03 games to Ward Shrake quite a few years ago. I can't remember exactly what he wanted them for at the time, but I think he was going to try to make them into EPROM cartridges. It's been interesting scanning this material and playing these games. I've been using James' Arcadia emulator for some of these games; it's an incredible advantage to be able to play these games with an Atari 2600 controller using my Stelladapter. I miss the backstories for these Arcadia 2001 games. I think most other game companies spiced up the gameplay by offering a story for the player to give some context to the games. I guess Emerson didn't think game players needed that to have fun! #2473 Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 11:04:56 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia Scans, Part 8: Space Raiders From: James Jacobs >This game seems to have been inspired by Williams 1981 arcade game, Defender. Unlike many Arcadia 2001 games, Space Raiders doesn't seem to be a direct copy of that game, but there are too many similarities for them to be overlooked. I can confidentially say that Space Raiders wouldn't exist without Defender. The Space Squadron game is a pretty direct clone of Defender. It appears that Emerson and/or UA Ltd. were not confident of the legalities of releasing it in the USA, and thus made some further changes to it, resulting in Space Raiders. A similar situation applies with Robot Killer vs. Escape. #2474 Date: Fri, 12 May 2017 02:02:32 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia Scans, Part 8: Space Raiders From: Adam Trionfo I just compared the two games under the emulator. I find Space Raiders to be a better, or at least more fun, game. Your ship size in Space Raiders is about half the size as the one is Space Squadron; this makes a big difference in how the game plays. Because your ship is a much larger target in "Squadron", the game is much harder to play. #2475 Date: Tue, 16 May 2017 03:24:14 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 9: Tanks A Lot From: Adam Trionfo I have scanned in my last Arcadia 2001 box and uploaded it to Archive.org today. This archive includes scans of the box, manual, overlays and cartridge for the game Tanks A Lot for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console: https://archive.org/details/TanksALotEmersonArcadia2001 Here is the object of the game, taken directly from the manual: Destroy enemy tanks with your BAZOOKA MAN before they destroy him or your COMMANDING BASE VEHICLE. You have only 4 BAZOOKA MEN, so preserve them with care. There are two types of tanks. A BLUE TANK will track down and attack your COMMANDING BASE VEHICLE after the first few minutes of game play. YELLOW TANKS will primarily attack the BAZOOKA MAN; watch out for them. They will fire deadly missiles even while standing still. When all your BAZOOKA MEN are destroyed, the game is over. Also if the BLUE TANK or YELLOW TANKS destroy your COMMANDING BASE VEHICLE then the game is over. Here are the game's details from the back of the box: Tanks A Lot Video Game Cartridge For Use Only with the Arcadia-2001 by Emerson One Player Game (Uses Left Side Controller) The enemy tanks are approaching You are armed with a bazooka "Crouch", "aim" - fire! You got him and more points Watch out for his shells Close the gates to block the enemy tanks Protect your commanding base vehicle You must penetrate his barricade "Warp" yourself or your commanding base vehicle for safe Lots of action and fun Destroy all tanks and a second, more difficult, scene appears "Freeze" the game whenever it is necessary to hold action as long as you "unfreeze" the game to resume the action Highest score remains on screen so next player can challenge Great sound and color Fun for all the family (C) UA Ltd. 1982. Now I only have the boxes, overlays and manuals to scan for the Spanish versions of the two MPT-03 games: American Football and Baseball. I noticed today that these are slightly water-damaged, but they're better than nothing. #2476 Date: Wed, 17 May 2017 21:18:23 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 10: MPT-03 American Football (English) From: Adam Trionfo This archive includes scans of the box, manual, and overlays for the game American Football for the Home Entertainment Centre MPT-03 game console. This game system is part of the Emerson Arcadia 2001 console family. American Football was released for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 in 1982, although I'm not sure when it was released for the MPT-03. The Arcadia 2001 and MPT-03 manuals are certainly not strangers to typos, poor grammar, and "Engrish." As an example, this manual uses some pretty odd terms, often substituting "offending team" for "offensive team." (What, did the football players not shower today?) Also, a touchdown is scored by crossing the "baseline," rather than entering the end zone. Somehow that sounds intriguing to me: mixing baseball and football together: what would that sport be called? Despite these misgivings, this MPT-03 version of the American Football manual seems to be of a higher quality than the manual for the Arcadia 2001 game released by Emerson. You can download all of the scans and the pdf of the manual, here: https://archive.org/details/AmericanFootballMPT-03HomeEntertainmentCentre Here, directly from the 16-page manual, is the object of American Football: "There has never been anything like this American Football game. You don't need to go out to the football stadium, when you can enjoy all the fun and excitement in your own home. "The aim of the game is to score more points than your opponent. "To score, the offending team has to out-maneuver the defending team in order to carry the ball over their baseline (a touch down) or kick the ball through their goal (field goal). However, to keep possession of the ball, the offending team must gain ten yards in four downs. If, after four downs they have not gained ten yards, they lose possession of the ball and the opposing team then becomes the offending team. After a successful touchdown, the teams also change roles, with the defending team becoming the offending team and vice versa." The 2007 book Classic Home Video Games, 1972-1982: A Complete Reference Guide by Brett Weiss says this about American football: "The title screen for American Football gives an isometric view of the field, but, when the action actually begins, the viewpoint switches to overhead, with 11 small stick figure players on each team. The field scrolls horizontally and is 100 "yards" in length. On offense and on defense, the gridiron Goliaths move in unison when the player pushes the control disc. By using the keypad, gamers can move line backers, safeties, receivers (including decoys), and the quarterback individually. The keypad is also used for snaps, kicks (including field goals), punts, runs, and passes. Fumbles, off-sides, downs, huddles, and safeties are also part of the action. After the start button is pushed, a truncated, off-key rendition of 'The Star Spangled Banner' plays. Annoying crowd noise is heard throughout the game." The back of the MPT-03 box doesn't say anything at all about the game; it's completely blank. Here are the game's details from the back of the Arcadia 2001 box: American Football Video Game Cartridge For use only with the Arcadia-2001 by Emerson Two Player Game (Uses Both Controllers) Two controller overlays guide players National anthem song opens game Realistic kickoff and runback Any and all of the 11 players on each side can be moved Offensive player selects his play. run-pass-field goal (2nd scene appears) Defense can move any or all players to stop offense "Offside" penalty is called Interceptions are possible A portion of field is always in view for most realistic action The "roar of the crowd" makes this a most realistic game of skill Send out "decoy receiver" to fool the defense Fun for all the family (C) UA Ltd. 1982. I was pretty surprised to see that this manual was in English, as the MPT-03's console manual and the manual for the MPT-03 version of Baseball that I have are both in Spanish. #2477 Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 13:44:07 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia Scans, Part 10: MPT-03 American Football (English) From: James Jacobs >I was pretty surprised to see that this manual was in English, as the MPT-03's console manual and the manual for the MPT-03 version of Baseball that I have are both in Spanish. The MPT-03 was definitely released in at least some English-speaking countries, eg. the Tempest MPT-03 in Australia, one of which I had back in the 1980s. The MPT-03 console manual (http://amigan.yatho.com/mpt-03.rar) and Baseball manual (http://amigan.yatho.com/basebal1.zip) are available in English. I have never seen any MPT-03 materials in languages other than English and Spanish. #2478 Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 00:01:53 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia Scans, Part 10: MPT-03 American Football (English) From: markwcanon@... I believe I have mpt03 manuals in german, Dutch and french. In addition to English and Spanish. Supposedly it was released in the usa, but all ntsc models I ever found have had south American stickers on them. I have always wondered if there are any Japanese mpt03 game releases? There were 2 Japanese mpt03 consoles made so I assume there must be game releases to go with them, would be neat to see if so. #2479 Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:13:30 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Scans, Part 11: MPT-03 Baseball (Spanish) From: Adam Trionfo This archive includes scans of the box, manual, and overlays for the two-player, simultaneous game Baseball for the Intelligent Game MPT-03 game console. This game system is part of the Emerson Arcadia 2001 console family. Baseball was released for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 in 1982, although I'm not sure when it was released for the MPT-03. Baseball is game MG-305. This is the Spanish version of the manual (part # 88-05201-65 Spanish). You can download the collection of scans for the Spanish version version of the MPT-03 game, Baseball, here: https://archive.org/details/BaseballIntelligentGameMPT-03 Normally I try to quote from the manual, but since it's in another language, I'm not going to do that here. The 2007 book Classic Home Video Games, 1972-1984: A Complete Reference Guide by Brett Weiss says this about Baseball: "Baseball for the Arcadia 2001 is a passable rendition of America's favorite pastime. Player's control each outfielder individually and can throw the ball to each of the four bases, but the computer controls the infielders. When a ball is hit to an infielder, the batter is automatically out. When a ball is hit into the outfield, the perspective switches to an odd close-up angle of the nearest outfielder, who can run right and left to try and catch the ball. Pitches can throw fast and slow and curve the ball right and left, providing the potential for some crazy looking pitches. The baseball players are stick figures, and they make a terrible grating sound one running on or off the field." The back of the MPT-03 box doesn't say anything at all about the game; it's completely blank. Here are the game's details from the back of the Arcadia 2001 box: Baseball Video Game Cartridge For Use Only with the Arcadia-2001 by Emerson Two Player Game (Uses Both Controllers) Two controller overlays guide players All outfielders, hitter, pitcher and runner can be individually controlled. Infielders are controlled by the computer Second scene appears for ball hit to outfield Defensive player can move any outfielder to catch or pick up the ball and "throw out" the base runner The offensive player can move his runner around the bases, stop at first or "try for a double" A "home run" can be hit by the batter Strikes and balls are called The pitcher can throw a slow, fast, change of pace, inside or outside curve ball Plays just like the real game "Batter up" (C) UA Ltd. 1982. That's all of the Arcadia material that I have to scan. It took a few weeks to scan everything, but now it's done. Hopefully some people will find this useful. Have fun with it all! #2480 Date: Thu, 18 May 2017 21:17:27 +0000 Subject: Arcadia/MPT-03 Scans Needed From: Adam Trionfo Now that I've finished filling in high-quality scans of the Arcadia 2001 material in my personal collection, maybe some other people can fill in the other pieces that are missing. Are there people out there that are willing to scan what is not available? This includes scans for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 and the MPT-03-- especially games that were not released for the Emerson system. How complete or near-complete are other people's collections? James, you had mentioned that you would make a list of what needs to be scanned. Have you worked on that at all? Also, someone mentioned a few days ago that it might be possible to get translations of the Japanese Bandai games-- has any work in that direction developed? #2481 Date: Fri, 19 May 2017 14:43:59 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia/MPT-03 Scans Needed From: James Jacobs I'm afraid I haven't. With this console family it is very difficult to know for sure exactly what games were released in what languages for what consoles. Probably better for now to just make a list of what is available, and any item that isn't on that list needs scanning. Raw versions of such lists are here: http://amigan.yatho.com/a-boxes.txt http://amigan.yatho.com/a-carts.txt http://amigan.yatho.com/overlays.txt I could format those directory listings into something prettier but the basic information is already there. And of course the available manuals are nicely listed at http://amigan.yatho.com/#manuals #2482 Date: Wed, 31 May 2017 17:41:27 +1000 Subject: Monster Muncher and Munch & Crunch manuals scanned From: James Jacobs Juan Maestre has kindly sent scans of the manuals for Monster Muncher and Munch & Crunch for Interton VC 4000 family machines; they have been uploaded to the site at http://amigan.yatho.com#manuals #2483 Date: 13 Sep 2017 14:18:54 +0000 Subject: 3D Attack dumped From: stefanpiasecki@... Dear all, it/s been a long time since I was last posting here. I made quite an interesting scientific career and simply didn/t have the time to post, let alone play any games - I lurked around a bit and delved into things a bit more recently. I am still researching the Arcadia system and have compiled some more and longer interviews and also - thanks to Harvey Kleine - was able to dump rarities and protos over the years. I have also met great new people online who are relatively new to the scene but nevertheless motivated and have the right spirit. The other day I was browsing the very first posts from 2002 and man, I miss Ward. I hope he is well. If you read this, drop me a line, Ward. Will you? Everything you/ve ever sent is securely stored in a good place. OK, so September 12 17 was meant to be Apple/s iPhone X day? If so, Sep 13th 2017 should possibly be the day of our trusty little silicon friend: I was asked to provide my working dump of 3D Attack. Please find it attached. It is working with MESS both on Mac and Win (as you can see). I have also attached a picture of the unusual PCB design. Maybe somebody knows what/s up with this. It seems to be a true 8kb cart. I am talking to Harvey about a small run of repro carts. Would like to get Al of AtariAge on board but he didn't get back to me yet. Incl. box and artwork if possible. We will see. #2484 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:28:35 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] 3D Attack dumped [8 Attachments] From: markwcanon@... Great that you decided to share this stuff Stefan! I will try and get some pics up of my English manual soon. Can't remember if you had that as well. :) #2485 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 15:13:30 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] 3D Attack dumped [8 Attachments] From: Adam Trionfo Hey, Stefan, It's nice to see you around again. I'll try to look this posting over more closely tomorrow. I just want to answer your question about Ward. I email with him on a near-daily basis. He's doing fine-- though he's pretty stressed. He still has his Arcadia stuff, but I don't think that he's a member of the Arcadia group anymore. He's got a lot going on his plate right now. Back in September, he did solder together a multicart for a local friend of mine (not his own multicart, but one that someone sent him the parts for). So, Ward still dips his toe in the classic gaming community once in a while. What I remember most about the Arcadia systems and the year 2002 is when the phrase "pulling a Ward" was created for someone (that is, Ward) who spends a ton of time on a subject (the Arcadia) and discovers a lot of details about its history. Despite all that Ward discovered, I think that what he uncovered opened up even more questions. I still kid around with Ward and tell him that he's "pulling a Ward" when he gets quite interested in a subject (any subject) and his output to me increased by 1000%. If you're reading past Yahoo messages, then I suggest that you use an offline reader like PG Offline. I used it, and it works great. If allows you to have all the past messages at your fingertips. It also makes searching the past posts much better. Great to see you around again, Stefan-- I'm quite interested to hear about these interviews that you're working on. #2486 Date: 14 Sep 2017 04:58:47 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] 3D Attack dumped [8 Attachments] From: stefanpiasecki@... Good, thanks for your reply and I am also glad that Ward is well. Whenever I am so dead busy that I feel like puking into the garden I am thinking of this phrase he coined - "pulling a ward". I am doing this much too often - and for too many people (sigh). Send him my best wishes, please! #2487 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 20:06:03 +0000 Subject: 3D Attack (Zaxxon Clone) - Brief Instructions From: Adam Trionfo Thanks to Stefan providing the cartridge scan for 3D Attack, I've OCRed the brief instructions for this game. 3D ATTACK Video Game Cartridge Cartridge No. 21 (C) UA Ltd. 1983. All Rights Reserved This very rare game was released by GiG Electronics for the Leonardo Game console available in Italy. The Leonardo is part of the vast family of Emerson Arcadia 2001 consoles. These instructions for 3D ATTACK are from the back of the game cartridge. One Player Game (Uses Right Side Controller) - Licensed Arcade Game to play on your own video at home. - Exciting game of maneuver and shooting challenges your mental alertness and reflexes. - Real 3-Dimensional effect including authentic shadows! - Complete freedom of movement in six different directions! - Ward off attacks from Enemy Squadrons and Solo Commando Jets! - Escape from cunning enemy traps of Electric Fences. Laser Beams and airborne tracking devices! - Fuel gauge countdown keeps you on your toes! - Five different scenes with stimulating sound, action and color. - Select any scene: five games in one! - Increasing levels of difficulty as you improve. - Demonstration mode shows you how to play. - Practice mode for beginners. - "Freeze" the game at any time, and "Unfreeze" when you want to resume play where you left off. - Hi-score is retained for you or your friends to challenge. - Hours of fun for the whole family! #2488 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 20:35:48 +0000 Subject: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: Adam Trionfo I'm using Windows 7 with WinArcadia 24.6 (the latest version, from August 2017). 3D Attack seems to play way to fast. My ship can move left and right, but it goes as fast as possible-- which gets me killed about two seconds after the game starts. Has anyone else tried to play this game yet under emulation? #2489 Date: 15 Sep 2017 20:54:25 +0000 Subject: Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: stefanpiasecki@... After I dumped it I played it on Mess on the Mac and it seemed pretty much like the original. Would have to try it again though. But the same goes for WinXP - although my mame machine is 15 years old - or was it 10? #2490 Date: 15 Sep 2017 21:00:28 +0000 Subject: Re: 3D Attack (Zaxxon Clone) - Brief Instructions From: stefanpiasecki@... Here is the English language manual for you. #2491 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:32:51 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: Adam Trionfo Stefan wrote: >After I dumped it I played it on Mess on the Mac and it seemed pretty much like the original. I'll try playing 3D Attack in my mostly-recent version of MAME (which now includes the emulators that used to be part of MESS). It's been a long time since I'm emulated the Arcadia 2001 under MESS (and never under MAME), so it might take me a little while to get this all cleaned up. I also would like to try to burn 3D Attack to EPROM, but I discovered today that I no longer have (or I can't find) my Arcadia 2001 EPROM cartridge that Ward made for me back in about 2002. I plan to setup an old laptop to try to get my creaky old EPROM burner to work. I shouldn't say its "creaky," as Ward used a Commodore 64 to read, dump and write all of the dozens (possibly hundreds!) ROMs/EPROMS when he was archiving for the Arcadia 2001, Bally Astrocade and a few other systems. If 1982 technology is good enough for Ward, then early 2000s tech should certainly be good enough for me! ("3D Attack" is a very generic title. Every time I try to type "3D Attack," I end up typing "3D Space Attack" instead!) #2492 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:45:52 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: harvey_d I tried it on real hardware, and it seems to be working fine (only tested for a minute or two). #2493 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 21:59:55 +0000 Subject: Playing 3D Attack; Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: Adam Trionfo Thanks for testing it on real hardware, Harvey. Did you burn an EPROM of 3D Attack for yourself? Okay, I've now played 3D Attack using both the MAME and WinArcadia emulators. They act similar, but not the same. Under WinArcadia, I seem to be able to run into the shadows. Can that be right? Maybe this is just me not understanding the game? Also, part of my issue is that I'm expecting the game to scroll like Zaxxon, but 3D Attack doesn't have a scrolling playfield. Rather, when you reach the top of the screen (upper left-hand corner), then you get "teleported" (moved) back down to the bottom (lower-right) of the screen, where you begin again. It's very strange and jarring-- but I guess it possibly overcomes a hardware limitation of the Arcadia hardware. My other issue is that 3D Attack does something I always wished worked in Zaxxon. When you press down on the controller in 3D Attack, then you go down, and if you press up, then you go up. This sounds simple enough, but Zaxxon controls like a flight-stick. If you press up, then you go down. If you press down, then you go up. Sure, it's counter-intuitive, but I've gotten used to it over the years. So, it's a little weird to play with "normal" controls. I encourage other people to give 3D Attack a try, as I'd like to hear what other people think of it. However, based on first impressions, I'm not surprised that 3D Attack wasn't released in other markets where the Arcadia existed. The game is damned difficult to play. My guess is that if the the game hadn't been such a late release, then maybe it would have come out on one of the other million Arcadia clones. #2494 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 23:31:18 +0000 Subject: Just Burned "3D Attack" From: Adam Trionfo I just burned myself a copy to 3D Attack to an 8KB EPROM. Now I just have to find my Arcadia 2001 EPROM cartridge (doubtful), or maybe make myself a new such cart next week (possible). #2495 Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 23:35:27 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Playing 3D Attack; Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: harvey_d I "burned" the ROM file onto the next version of my multicart... a flash EPROM, so I can easily reprogram it to the proper multicart file (with 3D Attack!) later. The shadows can't hurt you (sounds like a good movie title). As far as gameplay goes, the up/down controls took a bit to get used to, but were okay. The playfield is quite short. It's difficult to shoot the enemies; going around them seemed to be more effective. The game is okay (not a fan of games with this perspective). What I found the toughest was very short delay from what scene to the next. To get anywhere, I'd need to memorize what scene comes next. #2496 Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 16:43:23 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Playing 3D Attack; Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: James Jacobs >These instructions for 3D ATTACK are from the back of the game cartridge. >One Player Game >(Uses Right Side Controller) Indeed the cartridge says that, but actually it uses the left side controller. >I'm using Windows 7 with WinArcadia 24.6 (the latest version, from August 2017). 3D Attack seems to play way to fast. My ship can move left and right, but it goes as fast as possible-- which gets me killed about two seconds after the game starts. Has anyone else tried to play this game yet under emulation? It is a fast game. I compared the speed under WinArcadia to the speed of the gameplay footage, and they are the same. You should ensure that the "Options|Speed" options are correct (turbo off, etc.). In particular, as it is a PAL game, ensure that PAL is selected rather than NTSC, otherwise it will run 20% too fast. >Okay, I've now played 3D Attack using both the MAME and WinArcadia >emulators. They act similar, but not the same. Under WinArcadia, I seem to >be able to run into the shadows. Can that be right? Maybe this is just me >not understanding the game? Collision detection seems OK AFAICT, running into shadows is not triggering a collision here in any of my tests. I'll continue to try to reproduce this, and I will compare against the behaviour under MESS. >Also, part of my issue is that I'm expecting the game to scroll like Zaxxon, >but 3D Attack doesn't have a scrolling playfield. Rather, when you reach >the top of the screen (upper left-hand corner), then you get "teleported" >(moved) back down to the bottom (lower-right) of the screen, where you begin >again. It's very strange and jarring-- but I guess it possibly overcomes a >hardware limitation of the Arcadia hardware. Well, the hardware can do scrolling, see eg. the Auto Race game. More likely the necessary extra logic would would push the ROM beyond 8K in size, and/or not enough free RAM to keep track of the necessary extra variables. #2497 Date: 16 Sep 2017 16:08:59 +0000 Subject: Re: 3D Attack dumped From: ward_shrake@... >The other day I was browsing the very first >posts from 2002 and man, I miss Ward. >I hope he is well. If you read this, drop me a line, Ward. Will you? Hi there, Stefan. (And others!) Yes, I am alive and (reasonably) well. Thanks for asking, and thinking about me. Yeah, I'm "still me" -- I'm just not active in places like this, these days. Weird thought, from reading older messages, before posting: it feels odd that "Pulling a Ward" now sorta means "disappearing" or "hiding" or whatever!? My memory of the original meaning of the phrase was that someone else (possibly PinWhiz? or someone from New Zealand?) had said that, in one of these message postings, back when I (and others here) was working hard on gathering up a bunch of info, to go into the Digital Press guide book; so that a lot of rumors and the like could be put to rest, things corrected that weren't really true but most people thought it was, et cetera. Anyway, I had figured out the timing of when "overseas" guys were coming online, and since the deadline to get stuff sent in was approaching, had changed my sleep hours so that I could be online when they were ... and, suddenly, one of the guys had asked something to the effect of, "How am I talking to you, live, with no delay; instead of dealing with a long delay between each part of our talks?" or some such. I explained it, and also posted whatever new updates (to some list or document) and, having seen way too much of that, at that point, the result was that person and some others, more or less shaking their heads (while smiling about it), had coined that phrase to sum up their reactions. I guess I mention all of that because the phrase still amuses and pleases me. People who do a lot of "work" for others rarely get much praise or pats on the head, as it were, for doing it -- and "pulling a Ward" felt a lot like high praise! Anyway, these days I'm not online much, in public -- but I still exist; I still do occasionally dip my toes into the water (though not very often) and so on. For instance, someone had asked me to go onto a VIC-20 (Denial) forum and just shoot the breeze ("talk") some months back, and I had done that. Adam had recorded me, voice-wise, on one of his podcasts for the Astrocade game system slash home computer. (Episode 2, I think?) So, occasionally, I pop my head up and prove I'm still alive, and haven't forgotten how to type. Adam and I stay in touch with one another via email, quite often, for stuff not related to Classic (or any) Gaming. Reading cool fiction, writing stuff, etc. Occasionally he and I snail-mail one another some stuff, etc., as the need arises. I'm 98% sure, for instance, that he currently has my "collection" of various cart PC boards (that I had taken out of various carts I'd purchased on eBay or wherever, back in the day, so I could re-use the cart's shells for making multi-carts, back when I was still doing that) ... so, if/when those blank / empty cart boards show up, he'll be able to solder up "the latest". I'm glad to see that people are still interested in this "system" and that one or more other multi-carts exists for it. That's pretty cool, methinks! I read up on older messages, and it looks like James got some cooperation from others in regards to people scanning in what they had, in terms of manuals and such. That's cool to see, too. (As Adam had said: this "system" gets no love!) Oh, Stefan: no fair over-working yourself, and puking in the garden, okay!? Anyway, that's it for me, for now. #2498 Date: 16 Sep 2017 16:54:43 +0000 Subject: Re: 3D Attack dumped From: ward_shrake@... (Stefan said...) >I have also attached a picture of the unusual PCB design. Maybe somebody knows what/s up with this. It seems to be a true 8kb cart. (With apologies in advance for poor editing, and/or sloppy writing!?) Just as a reminder to the group (since it's been so many years now) ... One of the things I had done, back when I was "pulling a Ward" in regards to the cart collector's guide for Digital Press (version five, wasn't it?) -- hoping to inspire some homebrew'ed games on real hardware and/or to help other cart dumpers out (technically speaking) -- was to include a breakdown of what game-cartridge circuit board numbers and types I had run into, and studied, while I was buying up long-and-or-short carts, mainly so I could modify and then re-use the plastic cart shells, for my multi-carts. Having seen lots of cart boards in lots of carts, I basically did an organized brain dump of the info. I'm pretty sure I sent Adam a copy of that list, when I sent those cart boards to him; back (Jan or Feb?) when I had mailed him some stuff to show a guy he knows, who was becoming interested in this system, at that time. I ended up creating a (techie's)-list-within-a-(gamer's-or-cart-collector's)-list, that was (I think) unlike any such list I'd ever seen for any other system. So in other words: it's not something the average collector would recall seeing. That and it being something done, what, 15 years ago now ... (yikes!?) ... means I should probably "start fresh" and re-explain that techie cart list. At that time, there wasn't anything like the list I had made, showing what cart numbers were what, in terms of memory sizes and other techie details -- so it seemed like a good and helpful thing to do, at the time; since I had the info "at my fingertips" as it were; and since I knew that if I didn't "make a list" (I did a lot of that, around 2000-2002-ish!) even I would eventually "forget it". My point is: the list or explanation, by cart number (the internal ID: the UAL numbers or whatever) were printed in that version of the guide, and, also, if memory serves, down the road a few years after that, I had shared the original file (Word document or whatever) with Adam Trionfo, and possibly others ... so, somehow somewhere, some of you guys should have a list of what "cart PC board number goes to what" ... and can just look up the 291-2 number to see whatever I had written down, about that particular board type. Take the document's word for it, rather than my "aging personal memory" version (that is, what I'm typing now), but that type was seen by me a time or two or three, back in the day. It's not an unknown type. (Rare, but known.) Stefan, remind me -- wasn't it you who had originally loaned me some cart boards for the Palladium family, back in the day? (Or am I messing up?) The pics of the 3D Attack cart's innards seems, off-hand, like it's one of the earlier, not later, board types -- from back when it made more economic sense to a manufacturer to include two separate 4k ROMs or EPROMs than one 8k. (Has anyone de-soldered the little metal shields on that cart's board, to see if it includes EPROMs or ROMs -- not that anyone but me likely is curious about such things?) Don't kill the cart's value, if that's a concern for that cart's owner. (But then again, since the case is already apart...?) I don't recall if I had ever talked, in that list, about 4k plus 2k combos? But whatever info I had, at that time, I am sure I included it into that listing. Anyway ... just tossing in another couple of cent's worth of commentary! Another nickel's worth: investigations into the APF system did solve the mystery of why there were two cart shell types -- and it was boards like the one seen in Stefan's pics, that forced a change to the taller shells. The game that forced the switch, if memory serves, was the APF system's version of Space Invaders. They needed more chips in there, to make that game work ... which in turn meant they had to make molds for new cart shells. And apparently, when APF died off, the (very expensive, I'm sure) metal molds for creating both cart cases ended up being used by Emerson or whatever. Ditto for another thing many will (?) have likely (?) forgotten: the discovery that the molds for the APF system's console were apparently modified, to create the Emerson system's console; which, later, were modified again, to create the Tele-Fever console. Somewhere I had taken, and maybe even posted, some photos showing side-by-side comparisons of the innards of those consoles. Anyway ... shutting up, before I get accused of over-typing (??) and stating the obvious. (But, hopefully, those reminders will spur some list-finding?!) #2499 Date: 16 Sep 2017 17:18:59 +0000 Subject: Re: 3D Attack dumped From: ward_shrake@... Okay, here's the shorter (and verified) version of what I just said, twenty minutes ago: First, an "oops" -- turns out it was DP's version 7, not 5, of their guide ... so my memory from 15 years or so ago isn't perfect! Anyway, it turns out I actually made a one-page Word document available, years ago, on the group's web site ... and yes, it's now confirmed: that "UAL 291-2" cart PC board style did get a write-up. Here's the write-up I did, all those years ago, on that one type of cart PC board: "#291-2: Made for use with two separate 2k or 4k user-programmable EPROMs, for programs up to 8k total. Simply remove the two existing EPROM chips, install two sockets, and program two 4k EPROM chips to have a copy of any 8k game. Long board style will not fit inside short cart cases. Will only be found inside long style carts that use more than 4k of memory." Other board types were also talked about, in that same document. To see the entire list, showing all the cart types, just look for this filename ... "Arcadia-2001_Homebrew-games_from-DPCG7.doc" ... which is located under the "FILES" section of this group's web site (and then go to "Hardware_information" section; then look for that file's name) ... Here's the direct link to that folder (you may have to be signed in to Yahoo, I would imagine?) ... https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_information/ Note that it appears I also posted some info, in that same area, about how to modify existing boards (that a technically inclined person might have laying around -- hint, hint, Mister Adam!?), so that if people wanted to play the new dump of "3D Attack" on real hardware, it's possible. Also: I see now that I wasn't totally lazy, in years past, in terms of posting info about the "conversion" from APF stuff to Arcadia 2001 stuff. There's some pics and other info, showing that kind of information, in the group's "files". -- Ward "Pulling a Ward" Shrake -- #2500 Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 18:41:56 +0000 Subject: Ward is Back?!? From: Adam Trionfo To say the very least, this morning, I was shocked to see three postings to the Arcadia group by the must-missed, Arcadia cart-dumping fool, best man at my wedding in 2009, old-school hardware hacking friend of mine, Ward! (Yeah, let's see if anyone can swallow that sentence whole!) I still can hardly believe that Ward posted here. I guess that's because I think of him as "modeler/writer Ward" nowadays, and not "classic-gamer Ward." I just read through Ward's three posts (which, eventually, I'll comment on separately). As always, there's good stuff in there, man. It is very strange to think that this Arcadia Yahoo group is fifteen years old (the first posting was made by Ward on April 4, 2002). Ward's first posting began, "Hello to everyone reading this. Welcome to this group! The main purpose of this group is to get folks like myself all into one place, and to share the info we all have with one another. And whenever possible and appropriate, to have some good clean, video game related fun... nothing wrong with doing that! :-)" Ward, in his eternal brevity, went on to discuss what he hoped the group would become. He also posted a link to his Arcadia website on classicgaming.com (which is now gone), although part of it (the Arcadia 2001 FAQ) is still available on digitipress.com, here: http://www.digitpress.com/the_digs/arcadia/texts/2001-faq.htm (I'm not sure if that is the latest version of the FAQ, but either way, it's mighty impressive.) Here's to Ward stopping in and saying hello to us. Stick around awhile, my friend, and you'll come to remember that the Arcadia 2001 still is the best home console ever released. (or not!) #2501 Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 19:09:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Playing 3D Attack; Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >It is a fast game. [...] In particular, as it is a PAL game, ensure that PAL is selected rather than NTSC, otherwise it will run 20% too fast. I changed the emulator setting to PAL mode. Thanks for the tip; now the 3D Attack is at least playable. It's still fast and you can't really play it without memorizing where objects are going to be next. I think that this game is quite unfair with how easily you can die. I don't think any of my games have lasted longer than a minute. This game needs to cut back on the methamphetamemes. >Collision detection seems OK AFAICT, running into shadows is not triggering a collision here in any of my tests. It's always the same shadow that destroys my ship. The enemy ships cast shadows, but I'm not running into an enemy, I'm running into just a shadow. It happens on the second screen, right before I reach the far side of the screen. I've attached a screenshot of me running into a shadow. I noticed that the aspect ratio of screenshots taken with WinArcadia are wrong (they're taller than they are wide), so I corrected it in this screenshot. >Well, the [Arcadia] hardware can do scrolling, see eg. the Auto Race game. More likely the necessary extra logic would would push the ROM beyond 8K in size, and/or not enough free RAM to keep track of the necessary extra variables. Thanks for your input, James. I think it's awesome that you still update WinArcadia-- and it's damned cool that it's available for the Amiga system too (not that any of my classic Amiga computers can run it). #2502 Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 19:27:04 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Playing 3D Attack; Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? From: Adam Trionfo Harvey wrote: >The shadows can't hurt you (sounds like a good movie title). That is a good name for a bad movie! >[3D Attack's] playfield is quite short. It's difficult to shoot the enemies; going around them seemed to be more effective. Agreed-- the playfield is just too tiny. If 3D Attack had been released in 1983, then it would have been competing against the official version of Zaxxon on the Colecovision, which is a crazy thought. >What I found the toughest was very short delay from what scene to the next. To get anywhere, I'd need to memorize what scene comes next. Yes, the delay between screens is, basically, non-existant. A pause should have been added to allow the player to get his bearings before being thrown out into the mix again. Without that pause, as Harvey and I have stated, you really do have to memorize what's going to be on the next screen. To me, that makes for very poor gameplay, and is really a way to "cheat" the player. Harvey, are you playing 3D Attack on a PAL or NTSC system? As I mentioned yesterday, I burned 3D Attack onto an EPROM so that I could play it on real hardware once I got an EPROM cartridge together. I don't think I'm going to bother to do that anymore. Under PAL emulation, 3D Attack is fast and just barely playable. Under NTSC mode, 3D Attack is too fast to play-- so I wouldn't be able to actually play it at proper speed on my NTSC with my Emerson Arcadia 2001 system. #2503 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 03:07:49 +0000 Subject: Making an EPROM Cart; was: Re: 3D Attack dumped From: Adam Trionfo Ward wrote: >[...] I also posted some info, in that same area, about how to modify existing boards (that a technically inclined person might have laying around -- hint, hint, Mister Adam!?), I did find part of what Ward is referring to here: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_information/ I see four pictures (board-01.jpg - board-04.jpg) labeled as "Part of a quickie lesson in how to modify original factory PC boards (Emerson family) to hold a user-programmable EPROM chip." Is there a document that goes along with these pictures? #2504 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 03:50:21 +0000 Subject: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: Adam Trionfo In the next few weeks my friend and I are going to be playing Star Chess, a game which sound fun-- but which seems really difficult to control. I did find a text version of this game's manual. Does anyone have the manual for this game that they could scan at high resolution? I could take the pages and turn them into a pdf. Star Chess isn't rare, is it? #2505 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 03:52:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: Adam Trionfo I meant to include a review of Star Chess. Here is a link to the Videogame Critic's review of the game: www.videogamecritic.com/arcadiamz.htm#rev3900 The Videogame critic is pretty hard on this game-- but since Star Chess doesn't use the joystick at all (it uses the keypad), I guess I can see how it would be very hard to control. #2506 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 00:22:40 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: markwcanon@... Star chess is definitely uncommon, maybe bordering on rare. As far as I know there was also no Schmid or pal Emerson release of this game even though they were planned. #2507 Date: 17 Sep 2017 06:48:06 +0000 Subject: Re: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: stefanpiasecki@... Funny, I played both Ocean Battle and Star Chess yesterday with my 7 year old son. Ocen Battle is, hmmm, dunno, so much of an early programming attempt. The manual isn/t quite clear about the control but we figured it out. The reason that it needs to be controlled with pad and the stick may have something to do wiith the analog sticks not really being useful - those that were used on the earlier pre-arcadia versions. Star Chess we didnt figure out. The later games were so much better. If you ask me they simply released programming demos as games for a start. #2508 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 08:52:33 +0200 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: 3D Attack dumped From: Dennis Spreen this is just a short "thank you again Ward for your great multicart, it is still in use and I'm very grateful having it"-message. #2509 Date: 17 Sep 2017 06:53:28 +0000 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: stefanpiasecki@... I have never seen a Schmid release and I am playing/collecting TVG since 1982. Rolf Schmid isn't sure if there was but he confirmed having seen it (its in the early catalogues), but he also said that the games they sold back then came from UA and they had limited control except ordering or not ordering. If UA decided to not continue SQ for example they simply ceased availability. And whether they were PAL or NTSC, it was just the packaging that was different. I may post pics of another strange object this week. Maybe somebody can tell me what it is. #2510 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 02:57:22 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: markwcanon@... Hey stefan, Do you or anyone else have any idea what mpt might stand for? #2511 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2017 20:34:20 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: Kevin Bunch I've got a boxed copy of Leisurevision Star Chess with the (English and French) manuals and overlays. I could probably scan it in at work sometime this week. #2512 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 09:54:03 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Playing 3D Attack; Re: 3D Attack - Emulation Issues? [1 Attachment] From: James Jacobs >I think that this game is quite unfair with how easily you can die. I don't think any of my games have lasted longer than a minute. You can have two missiles in the air at a time if you use both firebuttons, if that helps :-) Reducing the speed to 75% in the emulator improves the playability. Re. shadow collisions, this appears to be a bug in the game rather than an emulator issue. When a "commando jet" is very close to the ground, its shadow is drawn on top of itself, ie. the jet is hidden behind its own shadow. (Ideally that needs to be fixed in the game ROM, I have a few other ideas for possible improvements too such as showning the scene and round number, etc.) It's possible to die the same way on MAME and presumably on the real machine too. >I noticed that the aspect ratio of screenshots taken with WinArcadia are wrong (they're taller than they are wide), so I corrected it in this screenshot. I've now changed this for V24.61. #2513 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 15:52:27 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: Adam Trionfo Kevin Bunch wrote: >I've got a boxed copy of Leisurevision Star Chess with the (English and French) manuals and overlays. I could probably scan it in at work sometime this week. That would be great! #2514 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2017 20:24:52 +0000 Subject: Digital Archaeology: Arcadia 2001 Hosted on Website From: Adam Trionfo Ward Shrake has given me permission to host the latest version (January 7, 2003) of his "Digital Archaeology: Arcadia 2001" website. This site originally was available hosted on Digital Press's servers (www.digitpress.com) and later at ward's own domain (http://home.att.net/~wards.game.history/arcadia/). Think of this version of ward's website as a time capsule. It's exactly as you would have viewed it in 2003; nothing has been changed. You can view the website here: http://www.orphanedgames.com/DigitalArchaeologyArcadia2001 The picture on the front page of the Arcadia 2001 site has a store that appears to have a sign that says "Prototype Thrift Shop." The picture is not doctored in any way. It would be great if there was a thrift shop that only sold prototypes, but this isn't (of course!) the case here. This is a picture of two stores that are (were?) right next to each other in California. One store, I guess, creates prototypes for companies and the other store is, you guessed it, a thrift shop. James Jacobs also hosts another version of Ward's site, which is slightly older (from Aug 18, 2002). You can view that version here: http://amigan.1emu.net/digarch/ If you want to time warp back nearly fifteen years, then check out this classic-era website! Not only will you get a glimpse into the state of where collecting for the Arcadia family stood in 2003, but you'll get a not-to-subtle reminder of the classic look of many typical amateur websites of that era. #2515 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:42:07 +0000 Subject: Charles Orga? / Space War From: Adam Trionfo Today, me and a friend of mine were playing my NTSC Emerson Arcadia 2001 Ward's multicart. The version of Ward's multicart that I'm using is #1.39 (September 30, 2008). While browsing the multicart's listing of games, I decided to see what Space War was, as I couldn't remember playing that title. It turns out that it's the same game as Emerson's Space Attack. The weird part was that when I turned the system on, I got a strange screen; the game appears to be in low-res mode (not high-res). I've attached a picture of the screen to this posting. As you can see, there are some weird symbols, plus a person's name: Charles Orga. Not visible in this picture is that the screen was not static: the diving baddies still attacked the bottom of the screen, as if they were breaking-off from the main group of the alien invaders in formation. When I turned the system off and then back on again, Space War played fine without issues. I have a couple of questions about this unusual incident: 1) Space War was not released for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 (it was released as Space Attack in America). I looked online, but I could find no mention of Space War What system was Space War released for? As an aside, there are two versions of Space War on Ward's multicart: Space War and Space War (TVG). I was playing the normal (non-TVG) version of Space War. 2) I viewed through the ROM image for Space War in an hex editor, but I didn't come across the name (in place ASCII text, at least) of "Charles Orga." Does this name ring a bell with anyone? If anyone could help shed some light on this unusual incident, then I'd appreciate hearing from you. #2516 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:50:08 +0000 Subject: Played "Star Chess" Today From: Adam Trionfo I played Star Chess today with my friend, Christopher. Despite not using the joystick on the hand controller, Star Chess plays better than I thought that it would, though I expected the gameplay to be more like Archon. Instead, the game plays very much like Chess (hence the name, right?), but with slightly different rules. We recorded our one full game, which lasted about half an hour. I created the video with my camera on a tripod and, despite my best efforts, the camera was crooked. This makes the TV in the video look just a bit more than slightly askew. Since I've never seen a video of anyone playing this game before, I think that I'll upload it anyway. I'll wait until I can find pictures of the box, manual and cartridge, as I want to have those in the video. #2517 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 00:57:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Charles Orga? / Space War [1 Attachment] From: "Russ Perry, Jr." Given the dots, I wonder if it wasn't actually Charles Morgan but with not all characters displaying properly... #2518 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:26:42 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Charles Orga? / Space War [1 Attachment] From: James Jacobs >I looked online, but I could find no mention of Space War It was mentioned on this board in 2002, eg. message #1138. >What system was Space War released for? None AFAIK. >2) I viewed through the ROM image for Space War in an hex editor, but >I didn't come across the name (in place ASCII text, at least) of >"Charles Orga." Does this name ring a bell with anyone? No. That text does not appear to be in the ROM, even in Arcadia format. #2519 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:53:20 +0000 Subject: Space War Prototype; was: Charles Orga? / Space War From: Adam Trionfo Concerning Space War on the multicart, James pointed me in the direction of a posting from 2002. Thanks for helping me find information about this game, James. I read the various posts after message #1138. I eventually came across a lengthy posting by Stefan about when he dumped Space War, which I didn't realize was a prototype game. Stefan's post was made 14 years ago (!), so I'm going to post it here again in its entirety (see below my signature), for I either never read this post before, or more likely, it just slipped my mind after all these years. #2520 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 16:02:03 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Charles Orga? / Space War From: Adam Trionfo Russ Perry Jr. wrote: >Given the dots [in the name "Charles Orga"], I wonder if it wasn't actually Charles Morgan but with not all characters displaying properly... That's a a good thought, Russ. It's strange that the text doesn't come up in either the ASCII or Arcadia character set. Maybe the multicart was "confused" and getting it's data out of more than one bank. Whatever the case, the screenshot I uploaded yesterday truly did surprise the heck out of me. Perhaps, this is similar to that strange bug in "Astrosmash" on the Intellivision that causes the unfinished Asteroids clone, Meteor!, to show up on VERY rare occasions upon a reset of the console...? #2521 Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 22:53:01 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: Kevin Bunch All right, I've plopped in the Star Chess manual to the group, and will attach it here too. Because it's a folding manual, I split it up into individual pages.Inline image #2522 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 18:44:06 +0000 Subject: Only 22 Emerson Arcadia 2001 Games? From: Adam Trionfo I used various lists, mostly created by Ward Shrake, to account for all of the released games on the Emerson Arcadia 2001 that were released in the United States. I can account for 22 of the (I think) possible 24 games. Either I've overlooked games 4 and 22 or they weren't released here. It's possible that Ward already has this list, SOMEPLACE, but if so, then I can't find it. Also, there aren't any games higher than 24, right? Could someone look at my Emerson list and confirm that it's right: Arcadia 2001 Cart List (Sorted by Cart Number) By Adam Trionfo, Based on information written by Ward Shrake September 21, 2017 1 - Cat Trax 2 - Space Attack 3 - Escape 4 - 5 - Space Raiders 6 - Brain Quiz 7 - Space Vultures 8 - Alien Invaders 9 - Space Mission 10 - Missile War 11 - Ocean Battle 12 - Red Clash 13 - 3D Bowling 14 - American Football 15 - Baseball 16 - Soccer 17 - Breakaway 18 - Star Chess 19 - Capture 20 - Tanks A Lot 21 - Grand Slam Tennis 22 - 23 - Jungler 24 - Spiders Were Emerson Arcadia cartridges 4 and 22 released on the Emerson Arcadia 2001? #2523 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 18:45:21 +0000 Subject: PAL / NTSC List for Arcadia and MPT-03? From: Adam Trionfo Is there a list of the NTSC and PAL games released for the Arcadia? Did all, or most, games have both NTSC and PAL versions? How can you tell the difference with the ROM images available online? #2524 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 18:51:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) [8 Attachments] From: Adam Trionfo Kevin Brunch wrote: >All right, I've plopped in the Star Chess manual to the group, and will attach it here too. Because it's a folding manual, I split it up into individual pages. Kevin, the scans of the manual attached to the email are saved on the Arcadia 2001 Yahoo group website as thumbnails. They're TINY. You said that you also uploaded them to the file area of the Yahoo Group, but I can't find the eight scans there. Could you please point them out to me? #2525 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:30:55 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Only 22 Emerson Arcadia 2001 Games? From: markwcanon@... Yep, your list is correct. Only 22 USA games. Pleiades and funky fish were not released here but they were in multiple foreign markets. Of course the leisure vision had around 35 so they were a lot more north American releases. #2526 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 05:42:23 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] PAL / NTSC List for Arcadia and MPT-03? From: James Jacobs >Is there a list of the NTSC and PAL games released for the Arcadia? Did all, or most, games have both NTSC and PAL versions? How can you tell the difference with the ROM images available online? AFAIK the same ROMs were released for PAL and NTSC. Circus has an initialization routine that does some timing measurements, the purpose presumably is to determine whether it is running on PAL or NTSC. I'm not aware of any other game that has PAL/NTSC detection logic. #2527 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 20:28:48 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: Kevin Bunch >Kevin, the scans of the manual attached to the email are saved on the Arcadia 2001 Yahoo group website as thumbnails. They're TINY. You said that you also uploaded them to the file area of the Yahoo Group, but I can't find the eight scans there. Could you please point them out to me? Looks like they may have uploaded funky (but they have their own folder on the yahoo group). I can attach the original PDF files right now and try again later on the individual pages, though since it's a folded book it's a bit hard to follow. #2528 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:18:35 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Only 22 Emerson Arcadia 2001 Games? From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon wrote: >Pleiades and funky fish were not released here but they were in multiple foreign markets. >Of course the leisure vision had around 35 so they were a lot more north American releases. Any idea if Pleiades or Funky Fish was planned to be Arcadia cart number 4 or 22? Were either of these games advertised for US markets? #2529 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 17:24:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Only 22 Emerson Arcadia 2001 Games? From: markwcanon@... Yes, they were those numbers and both were advertised in some of the USA Emerson catalogs. I believe some people who ordered them by mail order in the USA may have eventually received tunix copies to fulfill those orders. #2530 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:30:29 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] PAL / NTSC List for Arcadia and MPT-03? From: Adam Trionfo James wrote: >AFAIK the same ROMs were released for PAL and NTSC. I presume that the Arcadia console's (et. all) NTSC/PAL "conversion" is taken care of automatically with the Signetics 2637 (I presume that this video chip had NTSC/PAL versions). On the Atari 2600, the PAL/NTSC conversions are different, but on other consoles (i.e. the Intellivsion) they're not. Since there are color differences between PAL and NTSC machines, how does that work out between Arcadia systems? Since, I think, we presume that these games were nearly all programmed in Taiwan by UA Limited, were these games all timed to run on NTSC systems, which is the television standard was in Tiawan? >Circus has an initialization routine that does some timing measurements, the purpose presumably is to determine whether it is running on PAL or NTSC. That's awesome; I wasn't aware of this. James, do your homebrew games make any timing measurements? #2531 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:56:22 +0000 Subject: Emerson Catalog Scans? Only 22 Emerson Arcadia 2001 Games? From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon wrote: >Yes, they were those numbers and both were advertised in some of the USA Emerson catalogs. I don't remember seeing these catalogs around anyplace-- though, admittedly, it has been some time since I've really scoured the Internet in search of this sort of documentation. Are there any hi-res scans of these Emerson catalogs. If not, are there any low-res scans? When I made my still picture of the "Mothership" level from Space Vultures, I based it on a one-page catalog scan of an MPT-03 (French, I think) Prestige catalog that I found online (maybe, on the Yahoo group-- though I couldn't find it again). I've attached it for reference. >I believe some people who ordered them by mail order in the USA may have eventually received tunix copies to fulfill those orders. That would have been pretty cool to live in America in 1982/83 and gotten a game from New Zealand for the Monaco Leisure Tunix Home Arcade, one of the Emerson cart-compatible game systems. Funky Fish, which was programmed Chris Capener in San Jose, CA, is one of the few games, that (as far as I'm aware), has a known game programmer (he inserted his name as an ASCII string inside the cartridge's game code). Ward Shrake and Michael Davidson had an email interview with Mr. Capener back in 2002. You can read it on the Yahoo groups file area, here: Files > News_clippings_and_interviews > Capener.doc Here is a direct link to the Word document. These links usually are time-limited and break, so if the link doesn't work, than you can manually find the file in the above location. https://xa.yimg.com/df/arcadia2001consoles/capener.doc?token=0oWH4Xsw3Agh-p-Nu6md9EaiPAAJbPiOvfarZb4zvqIugKTK7al1XZyNZ2HgINyH-uBw2PGOpL6EFxPlReh5Bm1Hat_QeqAYLsMP781EXQOCPSHrLp-P5Ky8HapXxUptYHkNx645GFU&type=download It's interesting to see this Arcadia group becoming semi-active again! #2532 Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:59:18 +0000 Subject: Re: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) [4 Attachments] From: Adam Trionfo Kevin Bunch wrote: >Looks like they may have uploaded funky (but they have their own folder on the yahoo group). I can attach the original PDF files right now and try again later on the individual pages, though since it's a folded book it's a bit hard to follow. Thanks, that's better. I'll see what I can do with these. Hopefully I'll figure-out a way to export these and put them back into their proper order. #2533 Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 15:04:39 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] PAL / NTSC List for Arcadia and MPT-03? From: James Jacobs >Since, I think, we presume that these games were nearly all programmed in Taiwan by UA Limited, were these games all timed to run on NTSC systems, which is the television standard was in Taiwan? I thought they were based in Hong Kong (which uses PAL)? >James, do your homebrew games make any timing measurements? No. >I don't remember seeing these catalogs around anyplace-- though, admittedly, it has been some time since I've really scoured the Internet in search of this sort of documentation. Are there any hi-res scans of these Emerson catalogs. If not, are there any low-res scans? There is an Arcadia Catalogues Pack at http://amigan.yatho.com/#packs Re. the Star Chess manual, I have trimmed the margins of the 150 DPI scan and uploaded to http://amigan.yatho.com/#manuals #2534 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 17:59:19 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: Kevin Bunch All right, tried it again. Should be 300 dpi; I scanned them in four files: front cover, inside two pages when you first open it, then the full inner flap and the full outer flap (or as much as the scanner could fit - the first two files should cover the pages that got cut off). #2535 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2017 17:02:51 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Emerson Catalog Scans? Only 22 Emerson Arcadia 2001 Games? From: markwcanon@... Yes, it would have been interesting to receive a tunix game back in the day for a game you had waited along time for by mailorder. I believe this to be true because I have seen a few lots on ebay in the past that were obvious old lots from an original owner and not a collector that would have a USA Emerson system with a bunch of Emerson games and then a tunix copy of funky fish. I got a copy of tunix funky fish from a lot like this where the usa seller confirmed it was a lot from back on the day. So I can see no other way these people would have managed to get these rare tunix funky fish copies. And because it appeared to be able to be ordered in the USA emerson catalogs, I assume some people had placed orders for it. No idea if this could be the same for pleiades, I have not seen it in random usa lots like I have with funky fish. I ran into a similar thing with a copy of soccer for the astrocade. I bought a copy from a guy who had ordered it way back in the day when bally had advertised it in their catalog. This guy had waited months for it and thought it was never coming. Eventually he received 1 of the generic copies that abc hobby craft had made! Somehow old original mail orders must have got transfered to them?!?! How strange :) #2536 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 16:36:46 +0000 Subject: "Signetics 2650: An IBM on a Chip" Article From: Adam Trionfo I just read an article on the CPUSHACK Museum website that was published on October 16, 2016. The article is called Signetics 2650: An IBM on a Chip. The article's author is simply "admin," which seems like an uncredited author to me; that's too bad, as the article is certainly worth reading. Until I read the article, I wasn't aware that the Signetics 2650, the CPU in the Arcadia/MPT-03 family and 1292 Advanced Programmable Video System (such as the Interton VC 4000), is based on the IBM 1130 mini-computer, which was released in 1965. Also, the 2650 was created in 1972, but it wasn't released until 1975. If you enjoy reading about hardware's history, or (especially) if you're into "what if" conjectures of history, then you'll find this article worth reading: http://www.cpushack.com/2016/10/16/signetics-2650-an-ibm-on-a-chip/ Signetics 2650: An IBM on a Chip | The CPU Shack Museum www.cpushack.com The Signetics 2650 processor has always been described as "very mini-computer like" and for good reason, it truly is very minicomputer like in design. It is an 8... I'd like to hear comments from anyone who, like me, buys into the article's conjecture that the 2650 would have been much-more widely received had it been released at the same time as the Intel 8008. Enjoy the article! #2537 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:24:07 +0000 Subject: WinArcadia 24.61 - Invaders for Interton VC-4000 From: Adam Trionfo I was reading Ward Shake's Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Guide 7. He mentions that Alien Invaders, an early (mediocre) Space Invaders clone for the Arcadia 2001, is based on an earlier game for the Interton VC-4000. He doesn't mention the name of the game, but I presume that it is Invaders. I don't have any experience with the VC-4000, so I tried it out in with the WinArcadia 24.61 emulator for Windows. I'm using Windows 7. I couldn't get Invaders to work properly-- or at, I don't think that I could. I could control the ship, but there is a ton of flicker and then the game seems to crash. I've attached a video file created with WinArcadia that shows the game being played. I don't know how to play this game back, but I presume it plays somehow from within WinArcadia. #2538 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 03:31:57 +0000 Subject: Source Code for Invaders for VC-4000? From: Adam Trionfo As I stated in a recent post, I was reading Ward Shake's Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Guide 7. He mentions that "Alien Invaders" is based on an earlier game for the Interton VC-4000, which I presume is "Invaders." What I found intriguing about this is that Ward said the source code was made available. Heck, I'll quote Ward, it will be easier: "Alien Invaders...] clone of the "Space Invaders" coin-op. Manufacturing codes found printed on masked ROMs made by Signetics show this is one of the earliest carts written for the console. Without much effort, we researchers found carts dated "8103" and "8108"… in other words, weeks 3 and 8 of 1981. To put that in perspective, realize that Emerson said in an official U.S. trademark application that their first use of the console name was in March of 1982; 15 months later. Even so, the program's history goes back even farther, in some form. Back in the days of the Arcadia 2001's "prequel" console -- the "Interton VC-4000" and its clones -- Signetics had released assembly code listings of a short "Space Invaders" game, to show consumers how to write programs for that console." Where was the 2650 source code for "Invaders" printed? It would be interesting to look at it. Is it available in any form-- either scanned or in a file that can be assembled? #2539 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 21:25:05 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] WinArcadia 24.61 - Invaders for Interton VC-4000 [1 Attachment] From: James Jacobs >I don't know how to play this game back, but I presume it plays somehow from within WinArcadia. Recordings can be played back by loading them with the "File|Open..." command. >I couldn't get Invaders to work properly It's not being emulated properly. No emulator exists that will run all the games correctly. WinArcadia is better for some games and MAME is better for other games. For this particular game, the MAME is emulation is better. Changing the emulation to improve a particular game often makes other games worse. There are patched versions of a few games available (in the Enhancements Pack) that run better in emulators than the originals. >Where was the 2650 source code for "Invaders" printed? It would be interesting to look at it. Is it available in any form-- either scanned or in a file that can be assembled? That's the first I've heard about it. There is a disassembly of it available in the Autodisassemblies Pack, but it is only machine-commented. Source code for the "Olympics" game was published in the German "TV-Computerspiele" book, which is available at http://amigan.yatho.com/#documents #2540 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 16:16:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] WinArcadia 24.61 - Invaders for Interton VC-4000 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >["Invaders"] is] not being emulated properly. No emulator exists that will run all the [VC-4000] games correctly. I'm really surprised to hear that the emulation of the VC-4000 isn't complete in WinArcadia or MAME. What is the status of the current version of WinArcadia. It emulates many 2650 systems. What is the emulation status of most systems; complete or incomplete? Would you say that the Emerson/MPT-03 emulation is 100% accurate? >Source code for the "Olympics" game was published in the German "TV-Computerspiele" book I looked in the German "TV-Spielcomputer" book from your website, but I couldn't find any program that resembles an "Olympics" program (which, I presume is a "Pong" game). The archive that I downloaded was here: http://amigan.yatho.com/tvsc.rar The file in the archive is "Elektor TV-Spielcomputer.pdf." I have the English version of this book, and it also doesn't seem to have "Olympics" game. Am I looking at the right book? If I'm somehow overlooking it, then could you please point me to the correct page number? Also, I emailed Ward directly asking him about the source code for "Invaders." It's been a long time since he's looked at this stuff, so he may not have an answer for me; we'll see. #2541 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 04:50:10 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] WinArcadia 24.61 - Invaders for Interton VC-4000 From: James Jacobs >What is the emulation status of most systems; complete or incomplete? Would you say that the Emerson/MPT-03 emulation is 100% accurate? For most systems the emulation is fairly good. See the "Guest Machines" section of the WinArcadia manual for a list of issues. 2636-based systems (ie. Interton, Elektor) are the most problematic. >Would you say that the Emerson/MPT-03 emulation is 100% accurate? It's fine from the viewpoint of the player, but not cycle-exact. >Am I looking at the right book? No, it is http://amigan.yatho.com/bernstein.rar #2542 Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 19:33:00 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] WinArcadia 24.61 - Invaders for Interton VC-4000 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >No, [the book you want to look at] is http://amigan.yatho.com/bernstein.rar Wow, this is a completely different book from 1980. I found the source code for "Olympics" in it. It is printed in an unusual format, but it's understandable-- well, if it wasn't written in German. Every line of the code is commented too-- which is pretty cool (again, if I could read it). Was "Olympics" ever released on tape or cartridge for any of the VC-4000 systems? The SSBN for this book is 3-7724-0436-7. If I'm "reading" the title page correctly, then it was published by French-Verlog. I see that several copies of this book are available for purchase: https://www.euro-book.co.uk/book/isbn/3772404367.html Was this book ever published in English? #2543 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 09:02:59 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] WinArcadia 24.61 - Invaders for Interton VC-4000 From: James Jacobs >Was this book ever published in English? Not as far as I am aware. >Was "Olympics" ever released on tape or cartridge for any of the VC-4000 systems? Yes, it is probably the most common game. Other English-language names it was released under include Bat & Ball, Olympia, Paddle Games, Pro Sport 60, Sportsworld and Super Sport. #2544 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 03:46:28 +0000 Subject: Arcadia High Score Competition? From: Adam Trionfo Is anyone up for competing in an informal high score competition for the Arcadia family consoles? I'd like to compete in the order the games were numbered when sold by Emerson. That would make the first three games we'd play together: 1) Cat Trax - Maze game that was originally a Pac-Man clone. This is a favorite of mine. 2) Space Attack - Galaxian clone 3) Escape - Berzerk Clone We could play each game for a week and post pictures of our scores as the week progresses. You don't have to be a great game player (or even a good one) to participate; this is just a fun way to get us to play our Arcadia/MPT-03 game consoles-- which is what they're for, right? If you don't have the cartridge that we're currently playing, then you can play it using the MAME or AmiAmiga emulator. We'll probably have to skip two-player only games. If even one or two other players would like to give it a try, then I'll take care of the rest by posting the short rules for each round (mainly, the settings that we'll all play on). #2545 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 03:59:34 +0000 Subject: Arcadia/2650 Music with Beeper? From: Adam Trionfo In the cartridges that were released on the Arcadia 2001, I've heard the sound effects and some simple music that console can produce using its "beeper." Could it play music like is created on the Spectrum 48K, or is 8K ROM just not enough storage to create a full song? Here is a video, called "1 bit Music (Mister Beep - Cosmic Escape)" that is a good example of the type of music that I'm talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6SeTVMcEbo 1 bit Music (Mister Beep - Cosmic Escape) www.youtube.com 'Cosmic Escape' by 'Mister Beep' for the Sinclair ZX Spectrum 48k. This song has a very uplifting tone, partly due to it being played on old technology doing... I wonder how much potential is locked up in the Arcadia systems? Did we see all that it could do? #2546 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:02:45 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia High Score Competition? From: James Jacobs >Is anyone up for competing in an informal high score competition for the Arcadia family consoles? OK. >We'll probably have to skip two-player only games. Ami/WinArcadia can do netplay but it would probably be too laggy sending the data to the other side of the planet :-( >Could it play music like is created on the Spectrum 48K or is 8K ROM just not enough storage to create a full song? It is probably possible. A lot of music data can be stored in 8K. #2547 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:25:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia High Score Competition? From: Ian Baronofsky I love high score clubs like this although unfortunately my Arcadia consoles are in storage. If I find one hiding,I'll definitely participate. #2548 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 03:14:06 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Arcadia High Score Competition? From: Adam Trionfo Ianoid wrote: >I love high score clubs like this although unfortunately my Arcadia consoles are in storage. If I find one hiding,I'll definitely participate. Even if you don't take your Arcadia 2001 system out of storage, then you can still participate by using an emulator. Despite its name, WinArcadia (my personal favorite way to emulate the Arcadia family and other 2650 systems) works on more than just Windows, although the other two platforms are rather oddballs. There is a variant of WinArcadia called Super Bug Advance for the Gameboy Advance (!) and also a version for the Amiga. If you have other platforms like Linux or a Mac, then you can play along using the MAME emulator. #2549 Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:15:23 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Arcadia High Score Competition? From: markwcanon@... I definitely think this would be a fun idea and I would like to participate :) #2550 Date: 30 Sep 2017 03:32:56 +0000 Subject: Re: 3D Attack dumped From: ward_shrake@... >this is just a short "thank you again Ward for your great multicart, it >is still in use and I'm very grateful having it"-message. You're welcome, Dennis! Glad it still has an "appreciative audience"! #2551 Date: 30 Sep 2017 03:39:47 +0000 Subject: Re: 3D Attack dumped From: ward_shrake@... >I see four pictures (board-01.jpg - board-04.jpg) >labeled as "Part of a quickie lesson in how to >modify original factory PC boards (Emerson >family) to hold a user-programmable EPROM >chip." Yeah, that's relevant stuff ... but, in looking at them again, now, it's basically three-quarters awful (which I can say, since it's my own fault, etc.) and I'm not even really seeing much "helpful" there, in terms of the pics, themselves ... >Is there a document that goes along with these pictures? I'm going to say, "Probably not -- unless I wrote one and forgot about it." Which is possible, given how much output I once out-putted, as it were. But it seems more likely that it was just posts, here, at random; or didn't get done, before I had a bunch of transitions in my life, all of those years ago. But not to worry, too much -- for Mister Adam's ("I wanna solder! Now!") uses and edification, I've begun expanding on that old "cart BOARD" breakdown I mentioned, that I had once included in the "actual game cart list" in DP's Classic Gaming Guide #7 (and also in this group's FILES section). It will be a while before it's ready for public release, but it's something I'm working on. #2552 Date: 30 Sep 2017 05:09:33 +0000 Subject: Re: Source Code for Invaders for VC-4000? From: ward_shrake@... (Adam Trionfo had said) >Back in the days of the Arcadia 2001's "prequel" console -- the "Interton VC-4000" and its clones -- Signetics had released assembly code listings of a short "Space Invaders" game, to show consumers how to write programs for that console." Okay -- I have done what research I can, and will comment now. Short version: that sounds a lot like something I would have heard, directly from someone (just to pick a Maybe-Not-Too-Wild Best Guess) like Peter Trauner or "Pet". And because "he" had said it, had included it. The one thing I'll say without any hesitation is that, as obsessive as I was at that time, in getting everything I could find or dig up or test, as perfect as it was possible to get it (and thus, was "mad at" what might be called "false data" -- I can't see me putting that in the DP guide, without a really heavy hitter (as it were) having told me that. I can't say he is 100% for sure that PeT is the one I heard that from, but I did talk (in email) to a LOT of people, back in the day ... and he surely was one of a handful of guys that I really, really had a lot of respect for, from overseas (not in the USA) in terms of both technical ability and "trust-worthiness". It was a treat for me to hear from guys like that, and I paid close attention. With that "class" of person, I'd typically almost never hear much from guys like that (Language Barriers being one reason; "running in different circles, for the most part" being one other biggie) ... but I know I was fascinated, at least for a while, with the "Emerson" having a not-really-known-in-the-USA "Little Brother" system. I'm pretty sure he shared ROM images with me, at one point (for the VC-4000 system) ... which I say because (and I'm not sure how many people remember I even did this?) there was a period where I was scientifically-as-possible testing "compatibility" between the VC-4000 and the "Emerson family" ... by burning ROM files, in binary form (that is, "sent to me via a PC / Internet") onto an actual (and more than big enough) EPROM that I had plugged into a copy of my Emerson-family multi-cart ... so I could test everything on a "real" system; and see if any then-running-around-rumors were true; were false; were part-true-and-part-false ... or what. I can't guarantee it was PeT who sent me the files, for that testing ... but I do know that he'd have been one of the most-likely-suspects, as it were, in my mind. And whilst chatting about the system(s) and the like, he may have told me that anecdote -- which, if someone else had told me, I might have been all obsessive about getting a second opinion on whether that was "right" or not. In other words: I only fully trusted people, without hesitation, that I knew to be Just As Picky As I Myself Was ... and, yeah, PeT would have been one of those guys. (As would others here -- but he knew more about tech than a number of the "more pure game collectors" I also got information from.) Anyway, this evening I got out my old "main" Windows 98 machine, that was used towards the tail end of "back in the day" to see if I could find the ROM images for the VC-4000 on my (obsessively organized, if a bit cluttered) PC folders from that era. Nope. I didn't find the actual files -- ROMs or texts for the VC-4000 ... so I'm thinking it may have been one of those situations where I, who almost always has a two-systems-ago computer as my "new" one, probably moved stuff like that off onto a CD-ROM, for "later" storage. (In other words, the more actively used stuff still being on that old PC, itself.) If I come across any such file, I'll upload it ... but I may have never had it in my hands. It may have been an anecdote some Trusted Soul once told me. #2553 Date: 30 Sep 2017 05:55:50 +0000 Subject: Explanations of (tech) cart-board modification images From: ward_shrake@... New "Nerdy Stuff" from Ward (Shrake) ... Okay, this will just be "for now" notes, that I'm typing with my eyes crossing due to (Yay?!) "Pulling A Ward" for the first time in many ages ... ... but in looking over some stuff Adam (Trionfo) was hoping I would look at, regarding the technical aspects of cartridge PC boards and the like, to sort of "add text" to some old photos, I'd say the following. In the FILES section, on the group's web site, under the hardware sub-folder or whatever, I had made a few "probably before one of my Hiatus Periods or semi-retirement periods" that I'm going back and trying to reverse-engineer, in a "what was my point" kind of way. (Feel free to chime in, guys, if this is something I covered before, and it's in message number so-and-so.) Anyway, the two not-really-documented-very-well files name "board-01.jpg" and "board-02.jpg" go together, with one another, as a set. There's a "solder side" and a "component side" (as we used to call them, back in the day) shown in that pair of photos (more likely, scans) from whatever year I'd made those. What's on display is more or less this: the EPROM style of cart board is already "ready to go" for a common EPROM type -- just add a socket, after you have de-soldered the existing chip. Then, for 4k-and-smaller games, that board is ready to go. The carts labeled as having been the "masked ROM" style, however, need a few cuts-and-pastes, as it were, on those boards. What that does is to "move a few lines around" so that "everything lines" up. In other words, to put an EPROM chip onto a masked-ROM board, a few of the lines or pins on those two chip styles do not match up perfectly. Most lines do; but not all. The ones that don't need to be "cut" at a specific (labeled) point ... and then, to "re-connect" those lines, but differently, some "jumpers" (short wires with insulation on most of them) are supposed to be added. It's sort of a "mind exploding" situation, to those not acquainted with this sort of thing, already -- (and no one's born with the knowledge!) -- and likely takes a bit of study, even for a person with a passing familiarity with that sort of stuff; so if it doesn't "click" immediately -- "join the club". Okay ... that's one minor mystery solved, from "What the heck was Ward thinking, Back in the Day, when he uploaded those two photos". The next pair of photos (or scans) that "go together" are "board-03.jpg" and "board-04.jpg". What's being shown, to one degree of effectiveness or the other, in -03, is that if you're trying to put an 8k chip (and EPROM) into a standard 292-3 EPROM style of board, it's not going to work ... because the "2732 EPROM" that is the kind used in a "4k or lower" game cart only has 24 pins or legs. That's the shorter or smaller chip, as seen in -03. The larger chip in that picture is the 8k "upgrade" or "bigger brother" of the "2732" which is the "2764" style. An analogy: you can't insert 28 "arms" into a "shirt" that only has 24 "sleeves" so, some way or the other, you have to figure out a plan of some sort to deal with those other 4 "arms" (in this case, legs or pins on a chip) that need to be hooked up, electrically speaking -- but that, at the same time: can't be forced to go through holes that simply don't exist, on the 24-hole boards styles. So what I'm showing, really, in the "board-03.jpg" picture is my "cure" for that "problem" -- which was to burn (and verify, on my "eprom burner"!) that 8k game cart's EPROM ... then, to get it into the board (without a socket: this was a "permanent installation" if you will), I needed to bend the four pins closest to what techie types like me call "pin one" ... making them look a bit like goofy tiny wings, sticking out the sides ... and, later, jumper wires will be used to connect each of those four "wings" to where they need to go. In the picture called "board-04.jpg" -- (which I apologize for, for not being a lot more clear, as to what's actually going on; on several levels or in a few ways) -- it looks like what I was trying to indicate with the fat green "colorization" area or stripe (left half of the image) is that "this is the extra-long part of the chip; that has the four "necessary, but kind of in the way" legs, to hook up. As far as what got jumper-wired to where, that would (sorry!) have to be a thing that got augmented with a study of the relevant pinout diagrams: to see what pins a 2764 had, in that physical spot on that particular chip; as opposed to the "complete nothing" that (didn't or doesn't) exist, on the smaller 2732 chip. One reason the image sucks, in terms of "how to" clarity, is that it would have been a lot better if you could see that image, or another image, without it being a "straight-on" (due to it being scanned) "camera image". What's not evident at all, or at least, not nearly enough, and which even took me a while to figure out -- (even though, ages ago, I'm the guy who built this particular "convert a 4k EPROM cart board into an 8k cart" Frankenstein'ed bit of game hardware; and then even though I scanned it in) -- is that, to better fit everything in the cart's case, and for picture clarity (yeah, right!) and so on, is that I had CUT OFF the "skinny" or "insert-able" portions of the four legs -- go back and forth between this image and "board-03.jpg" to see what I mean -- which gives the false impression that the legs are NOT "bent out, like wings". Anyway ... that's at least more hopefully-somewhat-helpful info than before? I may have to add to it, later ... but I'll do that in a Word document, maybe. -- Ward "Can't see straight and can't type either, tonight" Shrake -- #2554 Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:48:46 +0200 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Source Code for Invaders for VC-4000? From: Hans-Heinz Bieling As a former programmer for the Interton VC 4000 I only have the source code for my Game Motocross. Maybe this is helpful for you. I didn`t use Assembler in those days. I just typed the hex code into my "keyboard". A good resource for programming is the Elektor book for the "Elektor TV Spielcomputer". I learned to program my VC4000 with that manual. #2555 Date: 30 Sep 2017 15:59:48 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Source Code for Invaders for VC-4000? From: ward_shrake@... "Awesomeness," to see a former programmer for the Interton VC 4000 show up over here! Even though I'm not familiar with that machine, much at all, I think that's pretty cool! #2556 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 03:50:33 +0000 Subject: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 1 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about one week. This round ends on Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Emerson's cartridge #1, Cat Trax, a maze game similar to Pac-Man. Here is a screenshot of Cat Trax being played in the WinArcadia emulator: Here is the box for Cat Trax: Here is the cartridge for the Emerson version of Cat Trax: Here is the keypad overlay for Cat Trax: Cat Trax - Quick-Play Rules Play Cat Trax on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("CatTrax.bin" is the filename for Cat Trax): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Post pictures of your high scores here. Play using the default settings Game 1 (warp and gates available) and Option 1 (three tunnel exits on each side of the screen). Remember, fire button "warps" you to random location in maze. You can open gates using any of keys in left-most column (1, 4, 7) and you can close gates using any keys in right-most column (3, 6, 9). For those that don't want more details, then you're set to play-- for more information (including how to earn bonus points), then read on... Cat Trax - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. Cat Trax is a 4KB cartridge released in 1982 in a long case. It uses the left-side controller. The game is by "UA Limited." This game was intended to be the Arcadia 2001 console group's legalized version of Pac-Man. It was not the first version made; Crazy Gobbler was apparently written before Cat Trax. The November 1982 Electronic Games had a positive review of this game, in which they note that it was barely finished at that time. Cat Trax is one of three games known to have been ported over to the Atari 2600 VCS console by "UA Limited" in 1983. (See also Funky Fish and Pleiades). Cat Trax - Manual High quality scans of Cat Trax box, manual, cartridge and keypad overlays are here: https://archive.org/details/CatTraxfortheArcadia2001 For complete information about this game, visit the above link. I've included the important points form the manual here: In Cat Trax, three dogs chase a cat around a maze. In this game, you have the ability to somewhat control the maze by opening and closing gates using the keypad on the Arcadia's controller. You can also turn the tables on the dog by turning into a dogcatcher. Object of the Game 1. The game is about 3 Dogs chasing after a Cat. 2. There are 4 different games plus 8 additional options which make a total of 32 possible play combinations. Games and options will be described later in more details. 3. The purpose of this game is to score as many points as possible. 4. Points are achieved when the Cat eats the Catnip (Dots), apple, fish and Dogs themselves, (see VI. Scoring) 5. Each game can be run with 3 Cats continuously. 6. Initially the Cat will be chased by the Dogs. However, it can turn the tables by eating a fish appears randomly in the middle of the screen for a certain period. Then the Cat will change into a Dog Catching Truck and a countdown timing will appear inside the upper past of the doghouse. Within the countdown period, the Dogs can be caught by the Dog Catching Truck and they will be sent back to stay in the doghouse automatically until the countdown timing is finished. 7. When the Cat eats a fish at the first frame, the countdown timing unit will start from 5.0 (actual timing is about 30 seconds). However, if the Cat succeeds to clean up all Catnip (Dots), a second frame will be continued. At this second frame, the countdown timing unit for the Dog Catching Truck starts from 4.0 (actual timing is about 25 seconds). In the third frame, the countdown timing unit for the Dog Catching Truck starts from 3.0 (actual timing is about 20 seconds). And from the forth frame onward, the countdown timing unit will always start from 2.0 (actual timing is about 15 seconds) until the game is over. 8. The apples and fish will appear at random. When eaten by the Cat you get additional points (See VI. Scoring). They will then reappear at random at a later time. 9. You have 3 Cats to run for each game. After all Cats being eaten by the Dogs, the game is over. The highest score will store in the computer memory and appear on the top right of the screen. If it is not the highest, then it will disappear when the Start button on the console is being pressed. Cat Trax Gameplay Options We will be play using the default settings: Game 1 - Warp and gates available Option 1 - Three tunnel exits on each side of the screen. Cat Trax (Scoring): We are playing for the highest score. 10 points are awarded for first place, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. If more than ten people play, then I'll figure something out... Bonus Points There are a couple of ways to earn bonus points. Cat Trax - Video Review - (1 Point) - Although I found examples of gameplay footage for this cartridge, I couldn't find any reviews. Anyone who makes a video review of Cat Trax will get a bonus point. Cat Trax - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - Arcadia games can be flakey. If anyone find any problems, and documents them, then you'll earn one bonus point. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Summary I asked if anyone wanted to compete in an Arcadia 2001 High Score Club, and a few people answered the call. Think of this first round as an experiment. We'll Play Cat Trax for a week and post pictures of our scores as the week progresses. You don't have to be a great game player (or even a good one) to participate; this is just a fun way to get us to play our Arcadia/MPT-03 game consoles-- which is what they're for, right? I hope that this round gets people who love to talk about the Arcadia console family, but don't play it much to grab their (possibly) dust-covered old friend, plug it in and play a few rounds. For those who don't have a real console, or who don't own this particular game, then play along with us using emulation. Have a fun first round, everyone! #2557 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 17:35:40 +0000 Subject: Hans-Heinz Bieling Interview (Available in English?) From: Adam Trionfo I noticed that Hans-Heinz Bieling's name popped up recently as a reader of this Yahoo group. I found a German interview with him, from 2003, here: http://www.classic-consoles-center.at/interviews/interview-with-hans-heinz-bieling Classic Consoles Center » Interview With Hans-Heinz Bieling www.classic-consoles-center.at Created 03.12.01. Last update 08.09.03. This article and the pictures may be used and spread, however unchanged and free of any charge! In any case the Classic ... The interview seems to be about the VC-4000 and the TV Games Computer. Is this interview available in English? #2558 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 18:31:06 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Source Code for Invaders for VC-4000? From: Adam Trionfo Ward Shrake wrote: >I got out my old "main" Windows 98 machine [...] to see if I could find the ROM images for the VC-4000 [...] Nope. I didn't find the actual files -- ROMs or texts for the VC-4000 All of the ROMS for all of the 2650 systems, including the VC-4000 are here: https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar #2559 Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2017 18:44:59 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Source Code for Invaders for VC-4000? From: Adam Trionfo Hans-Heinz Bieling wrote: >As a former programmer for the Interton VC 4000 I only have the source code for my Game Motocross. Maybe this is helpful for you. Has this source code been archived? Has it been scanned and is it available someplace to download? I suppose it's in German, right? >I didn't use Assembler in those days. I just typed the hex code into my "keyboard". That seem very difficult now, but it wasn't at all unusual at the time for programmers to program in this manner. It's interesting to disassembler hand-written programs, as it usually becomes obvious rather quickly that the code was input by hand. Usually the code has gaps in it where extra code could be added later. >A good resource for programming is the Elektor book for the "Elektor TV Spielcomputer". I learned to program my VC 4000 with that manual. I have the English version of that book. I just dug it out last week again. It's rather nice. Too bad the Signetics 2650 doesn't tug at people's heartstrings that way that the 6502 CPU brings on nostalgia. If it did, then there would certainly be some cool sites for the TV Games computer. #2560 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 20:45:24 +0000 Subject: What are Raster Line Effects? From: Adam Trionfo In the Arcadia 2001 section of "Director's Cut" of The Digital Press Guide 7, Ward uses the phrase "raster graphics," but I'm not sure what he's talking about. Ward lists four programs that use these effects: Astro Invader - Program uses raster line effects to generate its graphics. Hobo - The program uses raster line graphic effects. Spiders - The program uses raster line graphic effects. The End - Game program uses raster line programming techniques. What does Ward mean by "raster line graphic effects?" How is it different from the normal way graphics are created on the Arcadia using the 2637 UPI chip? #2561 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 08:17:04 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] What are Raster Line Effects? From: James Jacobs >What does Ward mean by "raster line graphic effects?" It means the program is timing the register writes so they happen when the CRT's raster beam is at a certain position. In the case of the games mentioned, changing the background colour midway through the frame, so that different parts of the background have different colours. >How is it different from the normal way graphics are created on the Arcadia using the 2637 UPI chip? It is actually UVI. Anyway the usual way is to draw graphics during the vertical blanking interval (ie. while the raster is offscreen). #2562 Date: Wed, 4 Oct 2017 21:33:33 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] What are Raster Line Effects? From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >It means the program is timing the register writes so they happen when the CRT's raster beam is at a certain position. This is the way that the Atari 2600 works, right? So, the Arcadia has a little bit of old school and a little bit of old school...? (That was a fast answer, James!) #2563 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 02:51:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: Adam Trionfo I played a few rounds of Cat Trax this evening on real hardware using an Arcadia controller that works okay, but not great. I cleared a few rounds and managed a semi-decent score: Cat Trax - 19, 500 (NTSC Emerson Arcadia 2001 on an NTSC CRT TV) Here's an in-line screenshot of my score: I'm the first one to post a score for this, the first round of the Arcadia High Score Club, which ends this coming Sunday evening. Now it's *your* turn; can you beat my score? That's right: the gauntlet has been thrown! It's now time to put up or shut up! Let's see someone beat that! If you took one look at my score and thoughts of "puny!" or "pathetic!" ran through your head, then now's the time to show what you're made of! Don't just *collect* for the Arcadia console family; *play* it! #2564 Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2017 16:56:13 +0000 Subject: WinArcadia/Cat Trax "Speed Up" Issue From: Adam Trionfo I was playing Cat Trax this morning on my Windows 7 system using WinArcadia 24.61 (Sept. 18, 2017). Sometimes when I lose a life, or when I reach the next maze, the game speeds up to something like warp speed for about one to two seconds before it settles back down to normal speed. It's very strange. I can't remember this happening on any other games-- though, I admit, I have limited experience with WinArcadia. Has anyone else seen this "speed-up" issue? #2565 Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2017 10:58:14 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] WinArcadia/Cat Trax "Speed Up" Issue From: James Jacobs Thanks for your bug report. I have reproduced the issue. It only occurs when sound is enabled. The on-the-fly waveform generation is momentarily overloading the host CPU, which then rushes to catch up afterwards. I'll change this for V24.62 so that it pregenerates the waveforms. #2566 Date: 06 Oct 2017 22:27:48 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: ctompkins1927@... 21400 Dedicated to Adam. Christopher #2567 Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2017 23:04:22 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, From: Adam Trionfo Christopher, 21,400 points, eh? Let's see if I (or anyone else, hint, hint) can beat that score by tomorrow (Sunday) night! #2568 Date: 08 Oct 2017 01:39:46 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax [1 Attachment] From: amigansoftware@... 37,960 :-) Although I should point out that it was achieved on a PAL machine :-( #2569 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 14:49:55 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: markwcanon@... Well I had a very busy week, but at least had to get 1 score in. Maybe more tonight after some fall activities with the kids :) 18880 But my wife called me on the phone mid game and I didn't use the gates at all as I am not a fan of the keypad :) maybe next game I will lol Glad you set this up Adam! I mentioned it to some atariage friends and they are interested in the hsc too. Maybe posting about it there too would be good? They aren't fond of using yahoo groups ;) #2570 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 19:02:43 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax [1 Attachment] From: Adam Trionfo >Well I had a very busy week, but at least had to get 1 score in. Maybe more tonight after some fall activities with the kids :) >18880 That's not a bad score at all! >But my wife called me on the phone mid game and I didn't use the gates at all as I am not a fan of the keypad :) maybe next game I will lol I haven't really used the gates either. You're right, the keypad is a pain to use, especially if you want to "freeze" (pause) the game, as you have to use the second hand controller. Now that's akward! >Glad you set this up Adam! Me too; it's fun watching people play the Arcadia; you surely don't see that everyday! >I mentioned it to some atariage friends and they are interested in the hsc too. Maybe posting about it there too would be good? They aren't fond of using yahoo groups ;) Yeah, the Yahoo groups aren't for everyone. The day I announced that Cat Trax was the High Score Club game, I was going to announce it on AtariAge in the general classicgaming forum, but then I thought I'd ask Albert if he could setup an Arcadia HSC sub-forum like he did for the Astrocade. He hasn't gotten back with me yet. Maybe he will soon, as he's usually pretty good about that. If I don't hear back from him soon, then I'll just announce the round in the general forum. #2571 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 15:04:08 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax [1 Attachment] From: markwcanon@... Still waiting on family to go out....did a bit better ;) 26000 #2572 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 19:08:15 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: Adam Trionfo I managed to beat my previous Cat Trax score by a few thousand points: Cat Trax - 22,400 (NTSC, Real Emerson Arcadia 2001) I actually recorded this game, but my camera's battery battery ran out at around 12,000 points. I should have used a fully charged battery! After my battery died, I was pretty mad, as I was making a review video. I've had this happen before when I'm taking videos, and it's always annoying. This time I decided to do something about it. I immediately went to Amazon.com and ordered the AC adapter kit for my Camera. It was $60, but it should be worth it. #2573 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 19:12:35 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax [1 Attachment] From: Adam Trionfo Mark wrote: >Still waiting on family to go out....did a bit better ;) >26000 Mark, you're NOT supposed to beat my score. Okay, back away from the Arcadia unit. Slowly. It's time to shut off your Emerson video game system find something better to do. Maybe go play the NES. Yeah, Super Mario Bros. looks inviting, doesn't it? Or, if you HAVE to play the Arcadia, then try a different game. If you break 30K on Cat Trax, then you're kicked out of this very formal club! Nah, I'm kidding of course. This small bit of competition in the Arcadia forum is very fun to see happening. #2574 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 19:56:03 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Group Moderator Request From: Adam Trionfo Who is the moderator of the Arcadia 2001 Yahoo group? I have a request. Currently the group's settings don't allow non-members to read messages. These are the current settings. Group Settings This is a restricted group. Attachments are permitted. Members cannot hide email address. Listed in Yahoo Groups directory. Membership requires approval. Messages are not moderated. All members can post messages. Unless someone is a member, they can't access the site except to see the "info" page. This also prevents Google from having access to the messages, so if you do a search, you'll never get results from this Arcadia Yahoo group. Could the moderator of the Arcadia group please change the settings to the following: Who can see : * This group appears in search results * Non Members can view about group section * Non Members can view messages - Non Members can post messages You can find this setting under: management/settings. This small change will allow the group to be much more visible. #2575 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 17:28:18 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: markwcanon@... Lol Adam hahaha! Sorry but I am after the grand prize now! The massive Arcadia bragging rights! :D Also I am playing on my liesurevision....maybe that is some form of cheating hahaha It is quite fun, cat trax is really a good game, especially for pac man fans! I am hoping to have my 2 sons play a few games with me tonight after the pumpkin farm. Watch out....my 1 son won a hsc for the c64 playing street defender and won a prototype c64 virtual reality headset last month at the vintage computer festival midwest! :D #2576 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 00:40:25 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia Group Moderator Request From: "Russ Perry, Jr." Stefan and I are moderators. I've escalated you to a moderator as well. That being said, I can't find a "Non members can view messages" option; that might not be available to a restricted group, and I cannot make a restricted group public either. Maybe you'll see something I can't? Anyway, the latest user request (just today as well) was someone from AtariAge, which I assume will continue to drive traffic, even if we can't allow non-members to view posts. Sorry I'm not participating in the high-score contests, but glad to see some of you are. :-) #2577 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 22:30:04 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: markwcanon@... Well I haven't beat my high score yet, but got the boys playing: Milo 17380 Skylar 17700 They both are enjoying the game! :) #2578 Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2017 23:04:16 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: markwcanon@... I got in the zone! An even 60000 :) And Milo had me temporarily beat with 27940 I think we are done, that was a blast Adam, thanks for getting the family playing the arcadia! #2579 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 18:04:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: Ian Baronofsky I don't see an emulator for MacOS, so I'm probably going to miss this one. #2580 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 02:16:59 +0000 Subject: MAME on the Mac; was: Re: Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: Adam Trionfo Ian Baronofsky wrote: >I don't see an emulator for MacOS, so I'm probably going to miss this one. I haven't used a Mac since the 68K and VERY early Power PC days. However, I know that MAME can be run on a modern Macintosh system. Since MAME supports the Arcadia family, then you should be able to play these games on the Mac. I don't think that the official MAME site support a Mac distribution of MAME, but a quick search did bring up this site: http://sdlmame.lngn.net/ MAME/MESS for Mac OS X (Intel 64-bit Builds) sdlmame.lngn.net MAME/MESS for Mac OS X - 64-bit Intel. MAME and MESS are now combined as one distribution as of the 0.162 release and offered as a MAME binary (MESS is included in ... You can download the September 27, 2017 version of SDLMAME v0.190 64-bit from this site. @Mac Users: If any Mac users get this version of MAME to work on their Macintosh computer and are able to run Arcadia software, then I'd love to hear about it! #2581 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 02:42:53 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia Group Moderator Request From: Adam Trionfo Russ Perry, Jr. wrote: >Stefan and I are moderators. I've escalated you to a moderator as well. Thanks for making me a moderator. >That being said, I can't find a "Non members can view messages" option; that might not be available to a restricted group, and I cannot make a restricted group public either. Maybe you'll see something I can't? I can see the setting, but I don't have the rights to change it to public; hopefully you do. I've sent you a personal email about this. #2582 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 03:19:49 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon wrote: >I got in the zone! An even 60000 :) Hey, I thought I asked you to turn off your Arcadia?!? I knew that I should have used mind control! (I'll be posting the final scores for this round, hopefully, tonight.) #2583 Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2017 23:31:58 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 1: Cat Trax From: markwcanon@... Hahaha Yep, sorry! :) Fun time, look forward to more! #2584 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 03:53:43 +0000 Subject: Arcadia 2001 HSC: S1, R1: Cat Trax (Final Standings) From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 1 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, October 8, 2017 at 10pm MST. Six people played Cat Trax this round-- which is good start-- special thanks to Mark's two sons for participating with us; that's awesome! I was also very impressed that everyone played on real hardware. Cat Trax Scores (Final Table) 1st Mark Canon 60,000 (NTSC) 10 points 2nd James Jacobs 37,960 (PAL) 9 points 3rd Milo Canon 27,940 (NTSC) 8 points 4th Adam Trionfo 22,400 (NTSC) 7 points 5th Christopher Tompkins 21,400 (NTSC) 6 points 6th Skylar Canon 17,700 (NTSC) 5 points Remember that in order to do well in the high score club, then you should play for the long haul. Sure, the better you do, the more points you get, but the more you play, the more potential you'll have to do well if you play often. Don't forget though, it's about having fun and, well, being beaten by Mark, I guess! No bonus points were awarded for the following: Video Review - (1 Point) Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) I did make a video review of Cat Trax, but I've still got to edit it all together into something (kind of) watchable before I post it to YouTube. I'll try to do that this week. However, since I'm late to the game, I won't get bonus points for the video. Still, it was fun to make, even though my battery ran out while making the video and I was essentially just talking to myself after the camera turned off. This rounds winner is Mark. Congratulations, man! I had a lot of fun this round, and watching Mark's score climb higher and higher was nice-- plus he proved that you don't need a PAL machine to get a good score. I've always liked Cat Trax, but giving it some extra play over the last week made me appreciate it even more. It's a nice little game. I've not played the Atari 2600 version of Cat Trax, but I did look at a video for this game. It looks similar, but I wasn't sure if you could open and close the gates, as the player didn't do it. I'm not sure if the gate feature and warp are missing from the Atari VCS release, or if the player just didn't know about those gameplay features Next Round's Game The main game for Round 2 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club is Space Attack, a clone of Galaxian. I'll provide more details about this game when I officially post the start of the round tomorrow. In the meantime, feel free to play Space Attack to "try your evasive action skill to stop the space craft rocketing to destroy you." Ah, now that's quality English straight from the instructions on the cartridge. Thanks for playing in this round, and I hope to see you all in the next round! #2585 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 18:07:24 +0000 Subject: What does MPT stand for?; was: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon asked: >Do you or anyone else have any idea what mpt might stand for? Several weeks ago, Mark asked what MPT stands for. He never got an answer (which I found surprising). I'm not sure what it stands for either, but I figured that maybe his questions wasn't read because the subject was about the Star Chess manual. I thought it might be a good idea to change the subject line and ask again: What does MPT stand for? #2586 Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2017 23:50:22 +0000 Subject: Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 2 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks rather than one week, as I'm going to try to get some players from the AtariAge forums to play along with us. This round ends on Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Emerson's cartridge #2, Space Attack, a "slide and shoot" game, similar to Galaxian. Here is a screenshot of Space Attack being played on my NTSC Emerson Arcadia console: Here is the box for Space Attack: Here is the cartridge for the Emerson version of Space Attack:Space Attack - Quick-Play Rules Space Attack - Quick-Play Rules When Missile Attack begins, your ship ("missile launcher") appears off-screen on the right-side. This is a weird quirk of this game and is normal. You can't play until you move your ship left onto the screen; be careful not to move left and run right into an enemy or their missiles. Play Space Attack for high score on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. If you're using WinArcadia for emulation to play this Space Attack, then I recommend turning off the extra graphics that give the game additional stars. To do that, choose Options > Graphics and then uncheck "Enhance Skies." Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("SpaceAttack-A.bin" is the filename for Space Attack): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Post pictures of your high scores here. There are no options for this game, so everyone will automatically be playing by the same rules. Use the right-hand controller to play the game. The fire button shoots your missile. You can "freeze" (pause) the game by pressing the left-hand column of keys. You can "un-freeze" the game by pressing the right-hand column. Space Attack - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. Space Attack. Emerson. Confirmed. 4k cart. 1982. #1013 (2). Unauthorized clone of the arcade game "Galaxian". One player game; uses right side controller. Long cartridge. Game by "UA Limited. Emerson family labels depict unlicensed spacecraft from the "Star Wars" series of movies: a "Snow Speeder" and the " Millennium Falcon". Ward's guess is that this game was likely the second game the console's makers intended to release at launch time, to help to sell the global public on their new game console. Reviewed by Electronic Games magazine in November 1982; see the time line FAQ for the full text of that article. There is also a June 1982 article from a U.K.-based magazine there. That article openly used the name "Galaxian" when saying they intended to make a clone. A hidden ASCII message found inside the ROM code of this game: "To my wife Daisy and my son Jonathan From Choi Andrew Jul 1982 Galax.002". This is interesting on a number of levels. The date is barely one year after this same person put a message in the Interton VC-4000 game "Shoot Out," dated March of 1981. This may show that there was a big rush to get the initial Arcadia 2001 games all finished up. The "Galax.002" name is pretty obviously a reference to the arcade game "Galaxian". Space Attack - Manual High quality scans of Space Attack box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/details/SpaceAttackforEmersonArcadia2001 Space Attack for Emerson Arcadia 2001 : Free Download ... archive.org This archive includes scans of the box, manual, on page supplementary instructions (which seem to replace the overlays in this game) and cartridge for the game... (I don't think that there is an overlay for this game; it certainly doesn't need one.) For complete information about this game, visit the above link. I've included the important points form the manual here: What Space Attack is All About The goal is to score as many points as possible. Points are gained by shooting down the invading enemy space ships with your missiles. The enemy space ships will fire rockets back at your missile launchers which you must avoid. Watch out for enemy space ships that will try to crash into your missile launcher. On the bottom-left side of the screen is located a fuel gauge to indicate the fuel of the missile in combat. When the gauge is indicating empty, a warning signal is heard. If the missile launcher continues fighting when the gauge indicates empty, the missile launcher explodes and the next one continues the combat. The number that is located on the bottom right side of the screen indicate the group of attackers, after group 1 is eliminated the second group of attacker appears on the screen and the number change to 2. The firing from the enemy space ships will be more and more intensive as the group number becomes greater. How to Play Space Attack This is a one player game which uses the RIGHT Hand Controller. Press "START." The enemy space ships will move and fire rockets at your missile launcher. Some of the enemy space ships will fly directly at your missile launcher. Avoid the incoming rockets and the enemy spaceships by moving your missile launcher to the left or right, using the disc or joystick control. Fire your missiles at the enemy spaceships by pressing the Action button on the side of your controller or keyboard buttons at middle column. The missile launcher will be eliminated when a missile hits it, or when it collides with a space ship. Another missile launcher will automatically appear. You start with three missile launchers. The missile launchers you have left are shown at the bottom-right corner. The game ends when all your missile launchers are destroyed. When your missiles have shot down all the enemy spaceships, a new squadron of spaceships appears and you continue to shoot them down. You receive an extra missile launcher as a bonus if you reach 5,000 points. Scoring Summary In formation In Flight 1st Row 2 Ships 60 points 200 points 2nd Row 5 Ships 50 points 100 points 3rd Row 7 Ships 40 points 80 points 4th Row 9 Ships 30 points 60 points 5th Row 9 Ships 30 points 60 points 6th Row 9 Ships 30 points 60 points If the final score is the highest achieved it will be automatically transferred to the upper-right side score when the "START" button is pressed for a new game. If it is not the highest score it will disappear. You will erase the Hi score if you push either the "RESET" or "POWER" buttons. You may enjoy demonstration mode by pressing the "Select" push button until the bottom/right side of the screen appears D1. Then the demonstration mode will begin automatically. Space Attack Gameplay Options There are no gameplay options for this game. Simply turn the game on and start to play it. That's easy enough, right? Space Attack (Scoring) We are playing for the highest score. 10 points are awarded for first place, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. Bonus Points There are a few ways to earn bonus points: Space Attack - Video Review - (1 Point) - Although I found examples of gameplay footage for this cartridge, I couldn't find any reviews. Anyone who makes a video review of Space Attack will get a bonus point. Space Attack - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - Arcadia games can be flaky. If anyone find any problems, and documents them, then you'll earn one bonus point. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Space Attack - Backstory - (1 Point) - I can't believe that Space Attack doesn't have any backstory at all. Anyone who writes a storyline for this game will get a bonus point. Are you a human on a mission to save Earth, or an alien on a mission to destroy it? Are you a lost pilot trying to find your way home, or... well, use your imagination and entertain us all! Summary of this Round As you play Space Attack, your energy level depletes pretty quickly. I've not played this game much yet, but from what I've played so far, I have not been able to complete a level without blowing up when my ship runs out of energy. I really don't like this feature of the game. Is there a way to gain energy, or to lose it more slowly? The first round of the Arcadia HSC was an experiment. We had six players, which was better than I expected. Can we get more people to compete this time? If you know of anyone who might like to compete in this round, then please let them know to stop by and play with us. I asked Albert on AtariAge if he'd start an Arcadia HSC forum, but I have not heard back for a week. Even if I don't hear back from him, then I'm going to just post the HSC rules for round two in the general classic gaming section in a couple of days. As always, as you play Space Attack, post pictures of your scores as the round progresses. You don't have to be a great game player (or even a good one) to participate; this is just a fun way to get us to play our Arcadia/MPT-03 game consoles-- which is what they're for, right? If you've not played in a round before, then now's the time to join in! Have a fun second round, everyone... and blast those baddies! #2587 Date: 11 Oct 2017 03:23:21 +0000 Subject: Re: What does MPT stand for?; was: Wanted: Star Chess Manual and Box (High Quality Scans) From: markwcanon@... Yes I would very much like to figure out what the mpt could stand for.....and what company might be the point of its origin. The mpt games for the Arcadia clones come in very generic boxes which probably a dozen mpt03 systems by various companies all used from. We know the mpt02 systems are rca s2 clones We know mpt03 systems are Arcadia 2001 clones. We know mpt05 systems are clones of the interton family of consoles. I have heard mpt04 is also clones of the interton family but I have never seen any games or systems branded this...so not sure? I assume mpt01 would have been clones of pong based or general instruments systems....but again I don't know of them using that name for any.....does anyone else know. They also use the same cart shells across various platforms and the weird box art is definitely of the same origin that was used for the mpt03 and mpt05. The mpt02 games didn't have graphic art on the boxes. The mpt02 carts I have opened have been labeled conic. The mpt03 ones have been labeled sheen. I only have 1 mpt05 game and have not opened it. I would love to know anything anyone knows about this mystery company or companies. #2588 Date: 12 Oct 2017 11:15:53 +0000 Subject: anyone interested in boxed MPT03 console and games? From: lucifershalo@... to trade for some Arcadia games or to buy? #2589 Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2017 18:55:05 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: markwcanon@... I played space attack on Monday and Wednesday nights. Now some more today and beat my previous scores from those 2 days. I got 8960 so far. It's definitely harder than galaxian with the fuel meter but this is also neat as it makes it feel more like it's own game. A couple bugs I have seen are that it seems it sometimes takes 2 to 3 shots to kill an enemy....I think this mostly is due to shooting them right as they shoot a Bullet before you can even see them release it. But I also have noticed this happen with the enemies still in formation....so not sure on that. I have also seen my bullets kill more than 1 alien with 1 shot....seems like that would be a glitch? Anyway fun game....I always loved galaxian and gyruss and space invaders, so it's a genre I like. Hope some more people play and try to beat me!!!! #2590 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 16:56:19 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon wrote: >I got 8960 so far. Nice score, Mark. It took me quite a few games to beat it-- and I've only managed to "best" it by a couple of hundred points. I'll post that score in another post today. >It's definitely harder than galaxian with the fuel meter but this is also neat as it makes it feel more like it's own game. The fuel meter ruins this game. I've timed the meter, and it last about 47 seconds. Presuming that you don't earn an extra life, and don't clear a wave with each ship, then a maximum game last 2:21 minutes. >A couple bugs I have seen are that it seems it sometimes takes 2 to 3 shots to kill an enemy....I think this mostly is due to shooting them right as they shoot a Bullet before you can even see them release it. Yes, I believe you're right, shooting an enemy as they fire doesn't kill them. However, I still consider this a bug, as you can't actually see the alien's shots, so this is quite deceptive. >I also have noticed this happen with the enemies still in formation....so not sure on that. I've not seen this while they're in formation, but I have had my shots pass right through aliens in formation on many occasions. >I have also seen my bullets kill more than 1 alien with 1 shot....seems like that would be a glitch? I've also destroyed more than one alien with one shot. For me, I think, that this has only happened when they're in formation. It's hard to tell for sure though, as it's difficult to pay attention to that and also avoid being hit by a baddie. >Anyway fun game....I always loved galaxian and gyruss and space invaders, so it's a genre I like. I like the "slide and shoot" genre too, but Space Attack's time limit imposed by the energy bar is brutal on the player in this game. Like many Arcadia 2001 games, I really don't think that these games were play-tested very much. >Hope some more people play and try to beat me!!!! Yes, let's all pitch in and beat Mark, for I know he'll best my score-- and I don't want to be in last place. #2591 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 17:53:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo I played Space Attack today for two reasons: to try my best to get a high score and to observe the game to see how it works. Here's my high score (with gameplay observations following it): Space Attack - 9,120 - Wave 4 (Real NTSC Emerson Arcadia 2001) I managed to make it to wave 4 and only had one ship left onscreen when I died from running out of fuel. Space Attack Play Observations In Space Attack, there are 50 aliens per level (board). Each player ship's fuel gauge lasts about 47 seconds (it makes no difference if you're firing shots or moving around). If you fire repeatedly, then you can fire about 65 shots off before your fuel runs out. However, that's only if you constantly fire, it doesn't take into consideration aiming, which slows down your ability to shoot quickly. If you aim very carefully, then it is possible to finish a board without dying, but I've only managed to do this once, and I had only a second or two left before my fuel ran out. Luckily, when you start a new level, your fuel is filled. The fuel gauge is made up of eight segments. Using a stop watch (yes, I'm a nerd!), I saw that the first segment of the gauge lasts about 16 seconds, but each of the seven remaining fuel seven segments last about 4.25 seconds each. That's 46.75 seconds. When you are down to two fuel segments left on-screen, then you get a warning sound that begins to beep; once you hear the beeping, then you have about 8 seconds left before your ship explodes. As I've mentioned before, the fuel gauge ruins this game. Your fuel lasts about 47 seconds. If you don't earn an extra life at 5,000 points, and don't clear a wave with each ship, then a maximum game lasts 2:21 minutes. If only one enemy ship is left on the screen and you die, then you still complete the level. This doesn't make any sense to me. Is this normal, or a bug? I've destroyed more than one enemy shit with one shot. I think that this has only happened when they're in formation, but it's hard to tell for sure. When only one enemy ship is left on the screen, the game gets significant slowdown. This happens on real hardware, no matter which level I'm playing, every time there was just one alien left on the screen. It makes firing and moving your ship jittery. Does this happen on PAL systems? Shots sometimes pass right through an enemy ship without destroying it when the aliens are in formation. I've not seen this happen to aliens once they leave their formation, unless you count "missing" a ship that you fire at because it fires at you at the same time (colliding player and enemy ship's shots destroy each other). As the manual says, the aliens move and shoot faster on each level. But, for me, the game is nearly too fast by level four. Maybe I just need to get used to it. Does anyone else have Space Attack gameplay observations? #2592 Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2017 21:02:47 +0000 Subject: WinArcadia - Space Attack From: Adam Trionfo For the high score club, I've been played Space Attack on my NTSC Emerson Arcadia 2001. I tried playing Space Attack today using WinArcadia 24.61 on a Windows 7 system with my Atari 2600 controller. This works, but the ship moves left and right VERY quickly (WAY faster than the real hardware). Just in case it was the controller, I also tried playing Space Attack using the keyboard (arrow keys and space for fire). I had the same issue using keyboard control. On real hardware, Space Attack is played with the right-hand controller, but under WinArcadia emulation, you have to use the left-hand controller. On the plus side, the game seems to play about regular NTSC speed, but it's all but unplayable due to the speed with which the ship moves. You have to tap the joystick or the keys VERY quickly to get fine movement, and even then, the "fine" movement is to course (you sort of skip from place to place). #2593 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 11:36:33 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] WinArcadia - Space Attack From: James Jacobs >the ship moves left and right VERY quickly Which version of Space Attack did you try? The player is much faster in SpaceAttack-B. >On real hardware, Space Attack is played with the right-hand controller, but under WinArcadia emulation, you have to use the left-hand controller. That feature is deliberate. It does controller swapping for those games which expect use of the right-hand controller, as a convenience for the user. You can swap them back with Alt+J if desired. #2594 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 01:39:01 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] WinArcadia - Space Attack From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >Which version of Space Attack did you try? The player is much faster in SpaceAttack-B. I was playing that B version; good call. I tried the A version and it seems to play MUCH more like real hardware. I guess is the Emerson (and worldwide?) release is the A version. I'll play around more with this tomorrow. #2595 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 01:52:52 +0000 Subject: The way to play Space Attack! From: Adam Trionfo Now that I'm playing the correct version of Space Attack (version A) using WinArcadia, I'm having a blast! I'm also SPOILED, as I'm using my Edladdin Supreme 78 All-Play 4/8 joystick to play the game. What, you've never heard of this fantastic arcade-style, arcade-quality controller? Then you need to check out these two review videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RTRehZvaoz0 Edladdin Supreme 78: All-play 4/8 Controller Review www.youtube.com I have owned this controller for a little over a year now, and I am loving it! This controller allows you to lock in 4 directional play for games like Galaga, Ms. Pac ... and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4M5ecoTlzFE Supreme 78: All Play 4/8 Atari 7800 Joystick Review - The No Swear Gamer Ep 173 www.youtube.com you can find this Joystick at edladdin.com Use Coupon Code: NSG to save 10% off your order https://www.patreon.com/NoSwearGamer https://www.facebook.com ... I sure wish there was a way to hook-up an Atari 2600 controller to the Arcadia! #2596 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 17:52:34 +0000 Subject: Space Attack Backstory: was: Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Space Attack Backstory October 18, 2017 By Adam Trionfo I've been playing Space Attack on the Arcadia 2001 for season 1, round 2 of the Arcadia High Score Club. One of the bonus points that can be earned is creating a backstory for the current game. I wrote one this morning and I'm including it here. The backstory is followed by a short explanation on how it came to be created. Enjoy! ---------------------------------------- The perfectly white outline of the asteroid heads straight for you. This one is small and it's flying fast; you can't turn your ship quickly enough to shoot it into the blackness of space. You have no choice. You take your chances and do the unthinkable: you press the hyperspace button. You don't know where you'll end up, but it must be better than the death which was coming your way. You watch outside your ship as the sharp black and white contrast of your world fades away... ... You've heard from other pilots that the "coming back" from a hyperspace jump can he nauseating. You don't feel sick as you begin to come to your senses, but you do feel different. You've heard the experience described as having every atom in your body fired from a canon straight through a screen that separates every molecule of your body. It's not the flying apart that hurts, it's the coming back together. And, damn, if those crazy hyperspace-using pilots weren't right. You feel like shit. Not only do you feel awful, but something has happened to your eyesight. The world that you know, constructed of white lines connected to evermore white lines built upon an empty universe, is gone. That's not right. It's not "gone," it's just different. Your world, as presented to you by your own eyes, has been altered. It's not worse. It's not better. It's just changed. You have no previous experiences to help you understand what you're seeing. Over the years, you have heard many tales from the pilots who have returned from hyperspace, but you've never heard a story like what is happening to you. Instead of the world consisting of interconnected lines, your vision is giving you something else altogether. You see something, but you know not what it is that you're witness to here after your return from hyperspace. You're still in space, for there is darkness all around you, and that's a comfort. That's the only thing that you can relate to right now: space. The sharpness that you've seen your entire life has been blurred. The contrast has been turned up too far, lines have turned into, well, something else. To express it in words, you think back to your college days when the instructor vectored a square, overlapped by another square and connected it at 30 degree angles by four lines. He called this object a "cube." This cube existed in a theorized world made up of an extra dimension. This would be the third dimension. As a student you really didn't understand this theory, and you still don't, but it's clear to you that what you're seeing now has some basis in what you saw then. Except, that's not exactly right; there is far more to this hyperspace-induced mirage than an added dimension. Your own ship has changed too: your console, your seat, your vector display. It's all different. That's when you have the most intense shock of all. You look at your hand. Instead of being made up of millions of small white lines, it's made up of, well, no lines at all. That's impossible, of course. The entire universe is made up of points and lines. What else is there? Can you trust your own eyes? Is what you're seeing real? What the hell happened to you while you were in that infinitely small hiccup in time called hyperspace? You see and think all this in seconds. You feel as though your mind is working faster than it ever has before. So fast, in fact, that as soon as you notice the strangely shaped objects on your view screen, you somehow know that these are three-dimensional ships. They're lined up in several sections to create one formation made up of seven rows. They're working their way toward you. You can tell, just as the pilots of those ships can tell, that you don't belong here. Not in this universe. Somehow, you've slipped from one dimension to another and these ships are here to stop you. They're not planning to return you to where you're from; they are just going to destroy you. To them, you're a cancer. That don't understand you and you don't understand them. Just as you can't explain it, they also don't know how you got here. They don't know why. They don't care. Alien ships begin to leave the formation and dive toward you. That's when you look down and see the warning light flashing on and off. You're hyperdrive engine is locked up and it's overheating your fuel. A bar graph shows you how much time you left before your ship explodes. The scale on the graph tells you that you have 47 seconds before you're no more. You sense that these ships are going to try to give you even less time than that. If you want to live more than that mere 47 seconds, then you must clear a way to escape your ship, but to do that, you'll have to destroy those ships that are coming in your direction. They've already begun firing on you. You must defend yourself if you want to live. Your ship-tracking system shows that there are fifty total ships, two of which are moving toward you in a strange semi-predictable zig-zag pattern. You don't have time to think, only to react. Luckily, you've been trained to act quickly. And you have one major advantage, for you're used to shooting asteroids which break up into ever small pieces, which also must be destroyed. These ships explode into nothingness with one pulse from your laser (not even debris is left behind). In this universe your ship's laser canon seems to be far more powerful. As you fire your first shot, you asked yourself, "Are forty-seven seconds enough time to destroy fifty ships?" And if it is, then what will you do afterward? You tighten your grip on your joystick and begin firing as quickly as you can manage it. As the number of ships begins to dwindle ever-closer to nothing, you hear a warning sound. You're just eight seconds away from your ship exploding. Your next shot takes out one of the last two ships. And then, something strange happens; the beeping begins to slow down. Your canon fires slower. You're moving slower. But it's not just you. The last ship is moving slower too. Something is not right here. Something is happening. You feel almost as though you're re-entering a hyperspace fold as you see the final alien vanish before your eyes. The beeping stops and... ... You've heard from other pilots that the "coming back" from the hyperspace jump can he nauseating. You don't feel sick as you begin to come to your senses. But you do feel different... ---------------------------------------- I'm pleased with this story, mostly because it was created without effort. Last night, around 5:45am, I got an idea in bed. I turned on the light quickly and wrote this down: "The asteroid is heading straight for you. Press hyperspace and jump to the world of Space Attack in time repeat loop. Each level starts over with you exiting from 'Asteroids' hyperspace... forever. Fuel limit is caused from hyperspace drive malfunction." Using that crude handwritten paragraph, which was only a reminder of what I'd already imagine while lying awake in bed, I spent about an hour this morning and came up with this backstory for Space Attack. Add in some editing time and this "afterward" and I've invested about an hour and a half into this Space Attack story. I tried to use the story to explain some of the mechanics of the game. For instance, the unusual slowdown bug that occurs when there is only one alien left is how I came up with the idea of a time warp sequence. If this story continued, our poor pilot ("you") would repeat the 47-second process over and over until, well, forever. Poor guy! Since U.A. Limited couldn't come up with their own storyline for Space Attack, it's up to us to give this game some added depth. There are still about 4 1/2 days left in this round. I'd love to read some other backstories for this game. Write your hearts out Arcadia fans! #2597 Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2017 20:01:38 +0000 Subject: Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo I was playing Space Attack today and noticed another bug. I also want to clarify one already-reported bug, plus confirm another one. 1) Stuck Enemy Shots - One of the enemy's shots got "stuck" on-screen right in the area where my ship moves around. I avoided it for about ten seconds. Then just as I was about to run into to see what would happen, "gravity" took over again and the shot made it's way to the bottom of the screen. I've played Space Attack about forty of fifty times (maybe more?) over the past week and this is the first and only time I've seen this happen.... so far. 2) Last Enemy Ship Slow-Down - I've mentioned that every time there is only one enemy left on-screen, that everything slows down to about, maybe, half speed, and the input from the controller get a bit unpredictable. Well, today I noticed that it only happens when the enemy ship is over the starfield. If the ship makes its way to the bottom, and then reappears at the top, then everything returns to normal speed-- until the enemy reaches the starfield area again. What's the explanation for this? 3) Missed Enemy in Formation - Mark mentioned that sometimes hits to the enemy ships while they're in formation don't register. I hadn't seen this at first, but I have now. Since the enemies don't fire, I guess that this is a simple collision detection problem. Has anyone else seen any other bugs in Space Attack? Is anyone else planning to play in this round? #2598 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 17:51:28 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score From: James Jacobs >I guess is the Emerson (and worldwide?) release is the A version. Yes, A version is Emerson Arcadia 2001, B version is Schmid TVG 2000. >Is anyone else planning to play in this round? Yes. >I was playing Space Attack today and noticed another bug. I also want to clarify one already-reported bug, plus confirm another one. I will add bugs to the "Emulator Compatibility Non-Issues" list in the Gaming Guide as we find them, if that's OK with everyone. >When only one enemy ship is left on the screen, the game gets significant slowdown. This happens on real hardware, no matter which level I'm playing, every time there was just one alien left on the screen. It makes firing and moving your ship jittery. Does this happen on PAL systems? I will check... #2599 Date: Thu, 19 Oct 2017 15:59:29 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >I will add bugs to the "Emulator Compatibility Non-Issues" list in the Gaming Guide as we find them, if that's OK with everyone. This is a really good idea! I've either never seen this list, or never read it. It doesn't ring a bell. Can you link me to it? #2600 Date: 21 Oct 2017 12:29:04 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: amigansoftware@... I got 12,460 points... >When only one enemy ship is left on the screen, the game gets significant slowdown. This happens on real hardware, no matter which level I'm playing, every time there was just one alien left on the screen. It makes firing and moving your ship jittery. Does this happen on PAL systems? Yes. >I've either never seen this list, or never read it. It doesn't ring a bell. Can you link me to it? http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/#compat (or "Help|Gaming Guide..." menu item in Ami/WinArcadia) #2601 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2017 15:03:25 +0000 Subject: Space Attack Video Game Review for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 From: Adam Trionfo I managed to create (and edit!) my video review for Space Attack before round 2 of the Arcadia HSC ends tonight. You can watch the 30-minute Space Attack review here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oO0kWSBoVDc Space Attack for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Video Game Review www.youtube.com This is a video review of Space Attack, a 4KB game released for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 in 1982. Space Attack is Emerson's cartridge #2, a "slide and shoot"... Space Attack is a 4KB game released for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 in 1982. Space Attack is Emerson's cartridge #2, a "slide and shoot" game, similar to Galaxian. This game is by UA Limited. The Emerson label shows spacecraft similar to a few spaceships from Star Wars: a Snow Speeder, Millennium Falcon, Tie Fighter and a Star Destroyer. Enjoy the review, and let me know what you think of it. #2602 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2017 22:59:29 +0000 Subject: Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: Adam Trionfo Today I did byte-for-byte comparisons between Ward's ROMs from version 1.39 of his multicart (he sent the ROMs to me on a CD in 2016) and the ROMs on Amigan's Arcadia 2001 Central website. Here's what I've noticed: Homebrews on Ward's Multicart (non in "Games" Pack) --------------------------------------------------- chartest.bin - Character Test, by PeT counter.bin - by ? jtron.bin - J-Tron, by Amigan message.bin - Message, by M. Morgan mothship.bin - Mother Ship, by Adam Trionfo tetris.bin - Tetris, buy PeT 1) Where are the homebrews on the Arcadia 2001 Central website? For instance, I notice Frogger isn't here either. I may also be overlooking many other homebrew ROMs. Different ROMs for Unknown Reasons (Ward vs. Amigan "Games" Pack) ----------------------------------------------------------------- Ward - gundamn.bin Amigan - MobileSoldierGundam.bin Ward - turtles.bin (4K) Amigan - TurtlesTurpin.bin (8K) 2) Ward notes on his multicart 1.39 list that his version of Gundam is a redump. Which Gundam ROM is correct? 3) Weirdly, Ward's version of Turtles in only 4K, but Turtles/Turpin is 8K. What's going on here? Is one an overdump or underdump? Missing from Ward's Multicart ----------------------------- 3DAttack.bin - 3D Attack Dictionary-English2German.bin - ? Dictionary-German2English.bin - ? JumpBug-B.bin - ? superbug.bin - Super Bug 4) What game (or release) is JumpBug-B.bin? 5) The German/English dictionaries won't work on Arcadia systems with extra RAM, right? 6) Super Bug is on Ward's multicart 1.39, but for some reason it wasn't in the ROMs he sent to me. However, it's in the ROM's on Amigan's website. I'm attempting to create a 512K binary image to place onto an EPROM for a multicart that I have, so I'd like the cart as complete as I can make it. James, can you help me to answer these ROM differences/missing questions? #2603 Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2017 19:18:23 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: markwcanon@... The mess team had made me a dumper for my 3d attack and they were going to send it to me the very weekend that Stefan released his dump. But when they were making it and testing it they dumped football and noticed in comparing it to the old dump that the old one is an underdump. They thought some of the other games might likely be as well. It would be nice to redump some if these and verify that. And I don't think ward was the 1 who dumped super bug and macross....but he possibly did all the other games besides 3d attack? #2604 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 13:08:19 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: James Jacobs >counter.bin - by ? >message.bin - Message, by M. Morgan I don't seem to have these two, can you send me them please? >Where are the homebrews on the Arcadia 2001 Central website? For instance, I notice Frogger isn't here either. I may also be overlooking many other homebrew ROMs. They are in the Examples Pack. Games Pack = actual dumps Enhancements Pack = actual dumps that have been subsequently modified (compatibility-patched or enhanced) Examples Pack = homebrews >Ward notes on his multicart 1.39 list that his version of Gundam is a redump. Which Gundam ROM is correct? The good dump has a CRC32 of 1241F128. The bad dump had a CRC32 of 2A3A5C91. The bad dump with some of the bad bytes fixed up has a CRC32 of 0F34FFBB. >Weirdly, Ward's version of Turtles in only 4K, but Turtles/Turpin is 8K. What's going on here? Is one an overdump or underdump? The 4K one is an underdump. >What game (or release) is JumpBug-B.bin? Tele-Fever version. >The German/English dictionaries won't work on Arcadia systems with extra RAM, right? According to my information, no, it wouldn't work, due to different memory mapping of the $4xxx area. (And unlikely to be very useful anyway because some letters can't be typed on anything but a Palladium.) >And I don't think ward was the 1 who dumped super bug and macross....but he possibly did all the other games besides 3d attack? There is a list at http://amigan.1emu.net/digarch/credits.txt >But when they were making it and testing it they dumped football and noticed in comparing it to the old dump that the old one is an underdump. Which game do you mean (American Football or Soccer), and for which machine? Could you send me that dump please? #2605 Date: 23 Oct 2017 12:37:17 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: ventrra@... Just a note that counter.bin and message.bin are by C. Morgan. I made the counter to check the display size of the system. #2606 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:06:11 +0000 Subject: Arcadia Homebrew Example List: was; Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: Adam Trionfo Wow! I just downloaded the Examples pack that James compiled. It is full of cool stuff. This pack includes some of my own example programs that I had completely forgotten that I'd written in the early 2000s. Thanks for this one-stop resource, James. The Examples pack that James made contains the binaries, sources and manuals of homebrew programs for various 2650 CPU systems such as the Emerson Arcadia 2001 console family (1982), Interton VC 4000 console family (c. 1978), and others. Here is a direct link to the Examples pack: https://amigan.yatho.com/examples.rar I used the TREE command from the command line in Windows 7 to get a listing of all the homebrew examples that are related to the Arcadia 2001. This list is sorted by directory. Each directory is named after the programmer of the examples. There are 31 pre-assembled binaries (programs) for the Arcadia here. Most, possibly all of them, have the source code available. I'll have to check some of these out and see what's in the examples. #2607 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 16:21:36 +0000 Subject: What do the Enhanced Arcadia Files do? From: Adam Trionfo The enhancements pack has enhancements of ten Arcadia family games. I couldn't find any explanation for these enhanced games. What do these changes do? How do they affect gameplay? The enhanced games are: 1) 3D Soccer 2) Alien Invaders (four enhancements) 4) Golf 5) Grid Iron (aka American Football) 6) Hobo 7) Space Squadron 8) Star Chess 9) Super Bug 10) The End The filenames are: 3dsocce!.bin 8,192 26/06/2008 09:36 PM alienin1.bin 6,144 29/05/2005 12:45 AM alienin2.bin 6,144 29/05/2005 12:48 AM alienin3.bin 6,144 29/05/2005 12:49 AM alienin4.bin 6,144 29/05/2005 12:50 AM golf!.bin 6,144 18/02/2006 06:12 PM gridiro!.bin 6,144 29/06/2008 12:46 AM hobo!.bin 8,192 06/03/2003 01:58 AM ssquadr!.bin 6,144 29/06/2003 09:55 PM starche!.bin 4,096 15/07/2005 03:28 PM SuperBug2.bin 4,096 08/09/2009 02:42 PM the-end!.bin 6,144 03/11/2007 12:36 AM James' site, Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central, has the same issue as my Astrocade site (BallyAlley.com): they're is too much stuff on there (not a bad thing!). It's difficult to know what you're looking for and what you're looking at when you're visiting the site. #2608 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 03:58:35 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] What do the Enhanced Arcadia Files do? From: James Jacobs >The enhancements pack has enhancements of ten Arcadia family games. I couldn't find any explanation for these enhanced games. What do these changes do? How do they affect gameplay? http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/#enhanced #2609 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:19:47 +0000 Subject: Re: What do the Enhanced Arcadia Files do? From: Adam Trionfo James pointed me to the description of the enhanced ROMs: http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/#enhanced I'm still not sure what "SuperBug2.bin" does. Other than the Super Bug 2 enhancement, here are what the rest of the enhancements do: 1) 3D Soccer - 3DSOCCE!.BIN - Fixed perspective on title screen 2.1) Alien Invaders - ALIENIN1.BIN - Skippable intro sequence, background #1 (original background) 2.2) Alien Invaders - ALIENIN2.BIN - Skippable intro sequence, background #2 2.3) Alien Invaders - ALIENIN3.BIN - Skippable intro sequence, background #3 2.4) Alien Invaders - ALIENIN4.BIN - Skippable intro sequence, background #4 3) Golf - GOLF!.BIN - Normal loading into memory 4) Grid Iron (aka American Football) - GRIDIRO!.BIN - No crowd noise 5) Hobo - HOBO!.BIN - No flashing when jumping on level 2 6) Space Squadron - SSQUADR!.BIN - More in-game messages (GET READY and GAME OVER) 7) Star Chess - STARCHE!.BIN - No scrolling 8) The End - THE-END!.BIN - Fixes graphic corruption bug Thanks for being available to help me find my way around the site, James. #2610 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 17:37:34 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: Adam Trionfo Mark Cannon wrote: >But when they were making it and testing it they dumped football and noticed in comparing it to the old dump that the old one is an underdump. In a long (great!) answer that James wrote, he quoted me. I noticed at the end of James' response that he ALSO quoted Mark, but it took me a little white to realize that. Since Mark might overlook this, James responded to the above by asking: >What game do you mean (American Football or Soccer), and for which machine. Could you please send me [meaning, James] that dump please? All of these postings are beginning to remind me of the days when this group used to be very active. Man, it's been YEARS since those days! #2612 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 14:56:47 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: markwcanon@... Yes it was American football. I believe they determined some of the long carts were different than the short ones....I forget specifics. I don't currently have the new dump, I will see if they or I can post it here. Also sorry I never got to play more space attack :( I was thrilled you guys played some and beat me....nice work! It's definitely hard to do good past a point in thus game ;) I have scores to submit for both my sons if it's not to late....they didn't beat anyone though :) #2613 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 19:19:56 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon wrote: >I have scores to submit for both my sons if it's not to late....they didn't beat anyone though Sure, submit their scores; the more the merrier! #2614 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 06:08:53 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: What do the Enhanced Arcadia Files do? From: James Jacobs >I'm still not sure what "SuperBug2.bin" does. It's just Super Bug modified to have different music, level layouts and graphics. To be honest the original is probably better ;-) #2615 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 21:33:59 +0000 Subject: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 3 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Emerson's cartridge #3, Escape, a game that is similar to Berzerk. Here is a screenshot of Escape being played on an NTSC Emerson Arcadia console: Classic Game Room published a video review of Escape on January 17, 2017: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5w00ZRdWz74 Classic Game Room - ESCAPE review for Arcadia 2001 www.youtube.com ULTRA MASSIVE VIDEO GAME CONSOLE GUIDE VOLUME 1: https://www.amazon.com/Ultra-Massive-Video-Console-Guide/dp/1521937176 How To Make A Video Game Review Show That ... Here is the box for Escape (I nominate it for worst Arcade 2001 box art): Here is the cartridge for the Emerson version of Escape: Here are the overlays for Escape: The Emerson manual doesn't have a game description for Escape, but I found one in a Tunix game catalog that looks like this: This is the game's description from the Tunix catalog: You're trapped in a maze of electrified walls surrounded by aliens who can attack you from eight different directions. Then your troubles really begin! A death-dealing, indestructible spinner appears on the screen and it's aiming straight for you! The spinner is capable of penetrating the electric walls and is immune to all bullets. Help! It doesn't look like you've got a chance. Points are won when you destroy all the aliens of escape the maze. But beware the electrified walls... one touch and you'll be frazzled! Escape - Quick-Play Rules Play Escape for high score on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. Play Game 2, Option 2. For more on options settings see that section below. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("ESCAPE.BIN" is the filename for Escape): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Post pictures of your high scores here. Use the left-hand controller to play the game. The fire button, or any button on the gamepad, shoots your weapon. You can "freeze" (pause) the game by pressing the left-hand column of keys. You can "un-freeze" the game by pressing the right-hand column. Escape - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. Escape by Emerson. Confirmed. 4k cart. 1982. #1015 (3). One player; left side controller. Game by "UA Limited". Long case. A common Arcadia game that is best described as a "legalized" version of the game "Robot Killer" (not released for the Arcadia family in the United States), which is a much more blatant copy of the arcade game "Berzerk". Comparing ROM images has shown they are based on the same code with just a few changes. The main ones are that they changed the way Evil Otto acts, so that portion of the game isn't a blatant copy. Other than that, it appears like they changed the shape and/or color of the robot's graphics. High quality scans of Space Attack box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/details/EscapeVideogameforEmersonArcadia2001 Escape Videogame for Emerson Arcadia 2001 - Internet Archive archive.org This archive includes scans of the box, manual, overlays and cartridge for the game Escape for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. Escape is a clone of the... For complete information about this game, visit the above link. I've included the important points form the manual here: Object Of The Game 1. There are 4 different games plus 4 options which make a total of 16 possible play combinations. 2. The purpose of the game is to score as many points as possible. 3. Points are achieved when the MAN destroys the Electrified ALIENS by shooting in one of eight directions. If the MAN destroys all ALIENS in one maze then it results a 200 points extra bonus. Whenever the MAN escapes from the maze you get 100 points. 4. Although the MAN has 4 lives, he may be killed as the Electrified ALIENS shoot at him. He can also be destroyed upon collision with Electrified ALIENS or the electrified walls of the maze or by the SPINNER which attacks the MAN from time to time after game play has progressed. 5. A SPINNER will appear after game is started and will spin for 30 seconds aiming for the MAN. The SPINNER is capable of penetrating the electrified walls and is immune to all bullets. The SPINNER therefore is indestructible. 6. After attacking, the SPINNER will spin again for a shorter period before a second attack. Within the spinning period, the SPINNER is absolutely harmless. The firing frequency interval will be shortened after each unsuccessful attack. However the tracking accuracy of SPINNER increases with each shot. After 7th shot it will surely track you down. 7. When the MAN escapes from the maze, the next maze will appear. 8. Eight room mazes are provided and will be called up randomly. The Various Games Game 1 - The ALIENS will not shoot at the MAN. Game 2 - The ALIENS can shoot only 1 bullet at the moment anytime. Game 3 - The ALIENS can shoot two bullets at a time. Game 4 - The ALIENS can shoot three bullets at a time. Option 1 - Eight ALIENS all capable of motion. Option 2 - Twelve ALIENS all capable of motion. Option 3 - Sixteen ALIENS all capable of motion. Option 4 - Twenty ALIENS all capable of motion. To Play The Game This is a one player game. Use the left controller only. Press any number on Keyboard to start the action Press Disc (or move Joystick) to direct the "MAN" where to go. i.e., press Disc/Joystick on left (9 o'clock) to move to left, 3 o'clock to move to right, 6 o'clock to move down and 12 o'clock to move up or move to 45° etc. To shoot, squeeze either Action Switch at the side of hand controller or press any number on keyboard. The shooting direction is controlled by the Disc/Joystick. Continue to play until screen reads "Game over". To maintain highest score on the screen, merely press "Start" button for the next game. Do not depress "reset" otherwise all scores will be wiped out. Scoring Escape from the maze - 100 points Each green ALIEN destroyed - 40 points Each red ALIEN destroyed - 30 points Each yellow ALIEN destroyed - 30 points Each small green ALIEN destroyed - 50 points Destroy ALL ALIENS in one maze - 200 points extra bonus (Last Monster destroyed will not have scoring point) Escape Gameplay Options This game is too easy on the default settings. Play Game 2, Option 2. Game 2 allows the aliens to shoot one bullet at the time (default setting is zero). Option 2 has twelve aliens on the screen. For more on options settings see "The Various Games" section (above). If the game seems too easy (or, more unlikely, too hard) then we may adjust the gameplay options for this game. Escape (Scoring): We are playing for the highest score. 10 points are awarded for first place, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. Escape (Bonus Points): There are a few ways to earn bonus points: Escape - Video Review - (1 Point) - I found a few video reviews of this game (maybe because it's common?), but it's always nice to see other people's opinions. Anyone who makes a video review of Escape will get a bonus point. Escape - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - Arcadia games can be flaky. If anyone find any problems, and documents them, then you'll earn one bonus point. We found quite a few bugs for Space Attack in the last round; let's see if we can do the same for this game. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Escape - Backstory - (1 Point) - I can't believe that Escape doesn't have any backstory at all. Well, that's not entirely true. The Tunix version of Escape has a brief backstory, at least in the game game catalog. Anyone who writes a storyline for this Escape will get a bonus point. It would be simple to base this game's backstory on Berzerk, but that would be cheating; come up with something original. How about no robots? Summary While testing Escape today, my memory served me well. This game plays painfully slow. Maybe it's possible to get used to it? I guess we'll find out. I still haven't heard back from Albert about creating a forum for the Arcadia on AtariAge. In the last round I said that I would just post the HSC in the general forum. I never did that. I'll be sure to do that this time. As always, as you play Escape, please post pictures of your scores as the round progresses. Not only does this help you not forget to play the game, but it gives other player's a challenge to try to beat your score. If you've not played in a round before now, then now's the time to join in! Have a fun third round, everyone! #2616 Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2017 22:46:31 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Many Arcadia ROM Differences (Help, please) From: markwcanon@... Here are my sons scores: Skylar-8560 Milo-4800 We all look forward to the new round! :) #2618 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 18:10:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 2 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, October 22, 2017 at 10pm MST. Five people played Space Attack in this round. Thanks to everyone who played. Hey, Skylar and Milo-- it's time to beat your dad. Don't you let him get away with a higher score than you in the next round. Let's see some competition going on in that house! Space Attack Scores 1st James Jacobs 12,460 (PAL) 10 points 2nd Adam Trionfo 9,120 (NTSC) 9 points 3rd Mark Canon 8,960 (NTSC) 8 points 4th Skylar Canon 8,560 (NTSC) 7 points 5th Milo Canon 4,800 (NTSC) 6 points Several people earned bonus points. These points made a significant impact this round. Here are this round's final standing: Space Attack Scores (Final Table) 1st Adam Trionfo 9 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 12 points !@# 2nd James Jacobs 10 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 11 points @ 3rd Mark Canon 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 9 points @ 4th Skylar Canon 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points 5th Milo Canon 6 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 6 points ! - Space Attack - Video Review - (1 Point) @ - Space Attack - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) # - Space Attack - Backstory - (1 Point) I've enjoyed making the video reviews of both Cat Trax and Space Attack. I notice I pay much more attention to details when I'm reviewing the game, just like when I play it more often because of the HSC. Writing a backstory for Space Attack was also very fun. This round's overall winner is Adam (uh, that's me). Special congratulations to James, who managed a Space Attack score that I couldn't even come close to matching. Way to go, "Mr. WinArcadia!" Final Thoughts on Space Attack Even though I don't think that Space Attack is that great of a game, the more I played it, the more I began to appreciate it. While I don't like the timer (fuel gauge) at all, in some ways it did make me come back for "just one more game." I'm still getting used to the Arcadia's controller. Like the Intellivision controller, which the controller shares many of its traits with, the Arcadia controller can really cramp up a player's hand. It's for this very reason that Christopher, who participated in round 1, didn't play in round 2. I played quite a bit of Space Attack under the WinArcadia emulator using an arcade-like joystick. It was much more comfortable, but for some reason, I still scored my highest score on real hardware. Next Round's Game: Escape The main game for Round 3 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club is Escape, a game similar to the arcade game Berzerk. I'd say that it was a clone of Berzerk, but it's actually a slightly-changed version of Robot Killer for the Arcadia family, which is a clone of Berzerk. Does that make sense to you? If so, then please explain it to me so that I know what the hell I'm talking about! I provided more details about Escape when I posted the official start of round 3 yesterday. It's time to start playing Escape, but remember... we are not using Escape's default settings. Make sure to play Game 2, with Option 2. Thanks for playing in this second round of the ultra-obscure Arcadia/MPT-03 High Score Club. I hope to see you in the next round! #2619 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 14:52:43 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: markwcanon@... Nice work Adam and James! Yes my sons need to play more and beat me....they sure can at some games. :) We have owned a berzerk arcade for about 20 years....here is hoping that translates to doing well on escape :D #2620 Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2017 19:14:48 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo There is a special bonus point to anyone (uh, Mark!) who takes a picture (or video?!?) of an Arcadia 2001 playing Escape and/or Robot Killer next to the Berzerk arcade game. Damn that would be cool. Yeah, I know, this bonus point is aimed straight at Mark-- but I want to see this picture! Playing the arcade version of Berzerk won't translate to getting a high score in Escape-- unless the arcade game is broken and when your man runs, it's like he's running through molasses. Heck, Escape plays slowly enough that it is almost a strategy game rather than an arcade game "translation." #2621 Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2017 07:11:26 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: markwcanon@... Hahaha....I think this could be arranged :D #2622 Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2017 16:46:37 +0000 Subject: Next HSC Round? Funky Fish or Space Raiders? From: Adam Trionfo There is still about another week to play in the third round of the Arcadia High Score Club. I'm debating which game to choose for the round 4 of the HSC. The next game in the Emerson library is cartridge #5 (Space Raiders) because cartridge #4 (Funky Fish) was never released by Emerson in the United State. For the Arcadia HSC Round 4 which of the following should we play: 1) Funky Fish - This game was released outside the United States. You can play it on real hardware using a multicart or it can be played in the emulator. 2) Space Raiders - A horizontal scrolling game. I'm leaning toward Funky Fish... What do you think? #2623 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 06:06:39 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Next HSC Round? Funky Fish or Space Raiders? From: James Jacobs Well, my vote goes to Funky Fish...I'd prefer some non-Emerson games, otherwise how will we ever get to play Super Bug? ;-) #2624 Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2017 16:36:03 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Next HSC Round? Funky Fish or Space Raiders? From: markwcanon@... Yep, my vote is we do funky fish too. Still also trying to find time to play some escape and do the personal challenge Adam made me :) hahaha #2625 Date: Sat, 28 Oct 2017 21:57:32 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Next HSC Round? Funky Fish or Space Raiders? From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >Well, my vote goes to Funky Fish...I'd prefer some non-Emerson games, otherwise how will we ever get to play Super Bug? ;-) That's three votes for Funky Fish (someone emailed me personally and didn't post it to the group). Counting my own vote, that's four votes for Funky Fish. Cool. We'll play that game in the next round. The idea of the HSC, presuming there is interest long enough, is that after the Emerson games, we'll begin playing the non-U.S. releases, probably in MPT-03 order of release. (Most games were released for the MPT-03, right?) On Thursday of this week, I was at a friend's house. We played Jump Bug for a long time. I'd play a game, and then he'd play a game. We kept playing for high score. I'd like to say that I beat his score, but... no, wait-- I did beat his score (Yeah, I know you're reading this-- what are ya gonna do now?!?) Jump Bug is probably my favorite game on the Arcadia system; it's deep and well-programmed. Also, Jump Bug has many screens, and it's cool because the demo shows you all of them-- at least I think it shows all of them (I've not gotten far enough to know for certain). #2626 Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2017 16:45:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo I created a post on AtariAge in the Classic Gaming General for round 3 of the Arcadia High Score Club. If you know anyone who would like to play in the HSC, then please point them here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/271509-arcadia-2001mpt-03-high-score-club-round-3-escape/ Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club: Round 3, Escape - Classic Gaming General atariage.com Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club: Round 3, Escape - posted in Classic Gaming General: There is an Emerson Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club that is running on the Arcadia 2001 Consoles Yahoo group. You have to be a member to view or post on that group, so Im opening the HSC to AtariAge forum users too. If youre interested in joining the Arcadia Yahoo group, then you can join the other 128 members here: https://groups.yahoo...01consoles/info Season 1, Round 3 of the... Has anyone been playing Escape this week? ---------------------------------------- Season 1, Round 3 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Emerson's cartridge #3, Escape, a game that is similar to Berzerk. [clipped] #2627 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 14:46:20 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: markwcanon@... Come on people play some escape! I played some on Monday and got around 4800 I think. I will post a pic soon, I accidentally removed the picture off my phone. Today I set up a system with robot killer next to a system with escape next to my berserk cab. Just as Adam requested :) here is a picture attached. I also did a video....just not sure the best way to share it here? #2628 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 19:36:24 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo That picture of Escape/Robot Killer/Berzerk is just AWESOME!!! Would you mind if I use that in my Escape video review that I'll be posting to YouTube? Okay-- come on, now you're only bragging. You have an arcade version of Pong too?!? I expect that on the opposite wall is Computer Space. Or maybe that's too new for you. Perhaps you have a PDP-1 running Space War! I'll be over to your place in ten minutes to play a game of Pong with you, Mark. If you took a video, then just post it to YouTube-- unless you want it to be private, in which case I'm not sure what the best place to put it would be. Again, that is one great picture. My "game room" is very poor in comparison. In fact, it's so sad and empty that I'm pretty sure that it's envious of that picture too! #2629 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 23:59:19 +0000 Subject: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo Spurred on by Mark's request to see some score submissions for round 3, I played a few games of Escape this evening and managed score worth posting: Escape - 6,140 (Emerson Arcadia 2001, NTSC) Remember to Escape on Game 2, Option 2, otherwise the game is much easier. I was quite surprised when I found myself having fun playing this game. Escape isn't fast-paced-- it's almost calming-- but in this calmness, where your character slinks around the screen, maybe tip-toeing his way through the hallways, is a hidden depth. This game is pretty fun, but you really have to not think of it as a Berzerk clone. It has all the earmarks of being a rip-off of that Berzerk. Let's face it; Escape started like as Robot Killer (which was released outside of the U.S.), which is clearly an unauthorized clone of Berzerk. However, in UA Limited's attempt to make this game legal in the United States release, they changed it enough to make it a game of its own. They changed the graphics slightly-- from robots to, I don't know, things (called "aliens" in the game). But it was the replacement of Evil Otto with a Spinner in the middle of the screen that changed this Escape enough to make it its own game. Does the Spinner really change the game that much? Play the game for yourself and see for yourself. I can't believe I'm saying this... but I think that I like Escape! #2630 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 21:33:00 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: markwcanon@... Haha, glad you like it Adam. Certainly, go ahead and use the pic for your video. You can use clips from my video too if you want. I am trying to upload it to YouTube right now. Not working great on the phone while I'm out working though. Looks like I can't make it private but I can set it as unlisted....good enough. Then it can just be viewed by people with the link. Yes, a nearly mint pong cab I got in the late 90s from the original owners basement game room. It's one of my prize possessions :) Yes come over and play anytime and see my home museum.....I don't think your near Chicago area though, right? Well no computer space yet....I missed winning a yellow 1 by $16 :( It's my most wanted item.....don't know if I will ever land 1.....they get harder and harder to locate. Haha and no pdp1, but I did see 1 in person once and got to touch it :D I do have 1 of Ralph Baers brown boxes though ;) it is 1 of only about 12 he made! Sorry if I made you jealous. Lol I started working when I was 10 years old...thats when the madness began....and I am 44 now. :) So 34 years of the collecting bug! #2631 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 21:36:56 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: markwcanon@... Nice score Adam! I do like the spinner in escape.....it's certainly no bezerk though. Robot killer is set up very similar to berzerk, but evil otto acts strange. But the robots look almost identical to berzerk. Now I need to go play some more soon. And yes if you use the default mode on escape it's way to easy....I think I could maybe play forever haha It seems the harder you select the better it is. #2632 Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2017 23:13:52 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: markwcanon@... Ok, video finally uploaded to youtube: https://youtu.be/dW79QTmra1A #2633 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 15:30:21 +0000 Subject: Possible Multiple 2637 Video Chips in Arcadia Console and Video Summing Circuit? From: Adam Trionfo A few days ago I printed the Signetics 2637 Universal Video Interface (UVI) datasheet that James has on his Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website, here: http://amigan.yatho.com/2637uvi.zip On page 2, column 1, paragraph four of the datasheet, it says: "With the 2637, a typical system configuration consists of a UVI, a 2616/2632 ROM, a 2622 (NTSC) or 2621 (PAL) Universal Sync Generator (USG), a 2650 series microprocessor, four 2112 RAMS and video summary circuitry. Additional UVI's, Programmable Video Interface (PVIs), as well as random logic can be interfaced to enhance game or system complexity." This "typical system configuration" describes what the Arcadia family of consoles actually is made up of in hardware (in this case, the "ROM" would be the game cartridge). I find it intriguing that the 2637 datasheet mentions random logic can also be added to enhance the system. The Arcadia family doesn't have it, but the TV Games Computer, in the book by Paul Holmes, actually does implement hardware randomization in chapter 14: Random Numbers. The briefly stated typical use case of the 2637 UVI makes me wonder how much additional help that Signetics may have provided to hardware manufacturers on how to design a system using their chipset. If UA Limited, Inc., or anybody, had approached Signetics and said, "Hey, we're designing a game console/home computer, we need help," how far do you think that Signetics might have gone for them? A similar situation really did happen that may have greatly affected the world when Steve Wozniak and Steve Jobs approached Chuck Peddle for help getting the 6502 to work when they were designing the original Apple. This "help" isn't on the same level of intervention (or invention) that I'm referring to with Signetics helping a hardware manufacturer, but it gives you an idea that such help was put forward to companies. After all, they wanted to sell as many their own chips as they could get to market. I have three questions concerning the above quote: 1) First Sold - When was the 2637 first commercially available for sale? 2) Add It Up - What is video summing circuitry? 3) Extra Video Chips - Could an Arcadia compatible system really have two (more more) 2637 UVI chips, or would such a system be completely incompatible with the Arcadia family? (There is no Arcadia family or any other 2650 system that actually has more than one 2637 video chip, right?) It's fun to postulate what an Arcadia system might have looked like had it contained more than one 2637 video chip. #2634 Date: Fri, 3 Nov 2017 22:44:54 +0000 Subject: WinArcadia Escape Plays Too Fast From: Adam Trionfo I was playing Escape under WinArcadia 24.61 on my Windows 7 system today. The game plays quite a bit faster than it does on my real NTSC Emerson Arcadia 2001 on an NTSC CRT TV. The game is actually more playable under emulation. Escape it notoriously slow on real hardware. When you move your little guy on real hardware, he "runs" like he is moving through molasses. Under emulation, he has much more pep. In a way, this makes me enjoy the game more under emulation, but it's also not really authentic. The baddies, the projectiles, your little running man, even the sound, seems to run just a bit faster. I've checked my WinArcadia settings and I'm playing at 100% speed on an NTSC Emerson system. Is there a way to make Escape play under emulation like it plays on real hardware? Maybe I can output the settings of WinArcadia for review? #2635 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2017 04:47:16 +0000 Subject: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo My friend and I played Escape under WinArcadia 24.61 in NTSC mode. The game is faster under emulation-- but scores still count on both real hardware and emulation. Yeah, try playing the game under emulation and seeing the difference for yourself: Escape - 12,170 (Chris++) Escape - 7,110 (Adam) Your turn-- please, SOMEONE beat Chris! #2636 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2017 16:23:51 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Possible Multiple 2637 Video Chips in Arcadia Console and Video Summing Circuit? From: James Jacobs I got a score of 9,750 on Escape. Screenshot is at http://amigan.yatho.com/EscapeHighScore.jpg as uploading to Yahoo is currently problematic on my connection. I must say that Robot Killer option 4 game 8 is much better ;-) >I was playing Escape under WinArcadia 24.61 on my Windows 7 system today. The game plays quite a bit faster than it does on my real NTSC Emerson Arcadia 2001 on an NTSC CRT TV. It seems OK to me. I will run some side-by-side tests to make sure. >The briefly stated typical use case of the 2637 UVI makes me wonder how much additional help that Signetics may have provided to hardware manufacturers on how to design a system using their chipset. If UA Limited, Inc., or anybody, had approached Signetics and said, "Hey, we're designing a game console/home computer, we need help," how far do you think that Signetics might have gone for them? Yes, these consoles are based on that Signetics reference design; Signetics are the real inventors of the hardware. The amount of OEM-specific help required would have been minimal; the chips are all off-the-shelf parts. >1) First Sold - When was the 2637 first commercially available for sale? I don't know. >2) Add It Up - What is video summing circuitry? Merges several video signals together for display. >3) Extra Video Chips - Could an Arcadia compatible system really have two (more more) 2637 UVI chips, or would such a system be completely incompatible with the Arcadia family? (There is no Arcadia family or any other 2650 system that actually has more than one 2637 video chip, right?) There are several coin-ops (eg. Galaxia) which contain multiple 2636 PVIs (three of them in this case, meaning that 12 sprites can be displayed instead of the usual 4). #2637 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2017 23:23:24 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: James Jacobs >The game is faster under emulation That doesn't seem to be the case. I compared WinArcadia in PAL mode against my PAL console at the same time and they are both approximately the same speed. I suggest checking the speed options, you may have inadvertently put the emulator into eg. 125% speed mode or similar. There is a momentary slowdown and then a corresponding momentary speedup in the emulator at the start of each level, this is the same issue as for Cat Trax and for the same reason. A fix is pending. #2638 Date: Sat, 4 Nov 2017 16:31:42 +0000 Subject: Emulator Speedup Comparison; was: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo >I compared WinArcadia in PAL mode against my PAL console at the same time and they are both approximately the same speed. I suggest checking the speed options, you may have inadvertently put the emulator into eg. 125% speed mode or similar. I checked the speed options. It says "100% of 100%. My friend Chris and I played Escape last night on both my NTSC Emerson Arcadia and under WinArcadia. We both decided that Escape, when running under emulation, seems to be somewhere between about 1.5-2.0 times fast than real hardware. We both thought it compared to about the speed increase between Ms. Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man with the speedup option. The increase in speed is significant enough that we both wondered if perhaps we were playing a ROM of Escape that had been hacked for speed-up-- is there such a ROM hack available? >There is a momentary slowdown and then a corresponding momentary speedup in the emulator at the start of each level, this is the same issue as for Cat Trax and for the same reason. A fix is pending. I was going to mention the "speedup" that happens, but you caught it. I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison video too. What would be the best way for me to do that for you, James? Also, just in case this issue is an emulation setting, it would be ideal if I could send you my list of settings. Is there a way to export them so that you can look them over? #2639 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 22:09:22 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Emulator Speedup Comparison; was: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: James Jacobs >perhaps we were playing a ROM of Escape that had been hacked for speed-up-- is there such a ROM hack available? No. >I was going to mention the "speedup" that happens, but you caught it. V24.63 has now been released and this issue has been fixed. >Also, just in case this issue is an emulation setting, it would be ideal if I could send you my list of settings. Is there a way to export them so that you can look them over? Yes, just email me the WinArcadia.ini file (in the Configs directory). >I'd like to do a side-by-side comparison video too. What would be the best way for me to do that for you, James? You can just make a video and upload it somewhere. It may take me a while to download it as I am only getting 3K/sec at the moment :-( I have uploaded mine to http://amigan.yatho.com/EscapeComparison.3gp #2640 Date: 05 Nov 2017 12:16:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Attack, HSC - Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 2 From: stefanpiasecki@... This is a cool idea. Pity I missed this. I am also tracking my own highscores on the Arcadia as well as Mame compared to original arcade machines. My high in on Space Attack was 22630 in 2006... no screenshot unfortunately so I will have to try again Adam, I will now try to get this account issue solved. Sorry. I am just too busy. Never hesitate to remind me of things. I it not lazyness or me being ignorant, it is just me "pulling the Ward" on too many ends... #2641 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 21:27:20 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo Cool video! I'd love to be a fly on the wall in that game room. What's the story behind the light-up happy face? #2642 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 16:35:21 -0500 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: markwcanon@... Thanks :) If your ever in the area feel free to make a visit. I used to collect old and odd lamps. The smiley lamp always reminded me of evil otto so I have kept it on top of berzerk. :D it's not a official berzerk related collectable though. #2643 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 22:45:44 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Emulator Speedup Comparison; was: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo I have installed WinArcadia 24.63. The speed-up/skip problem has been fixed. The timing also seems okay now. I compared it to my 24.61 installation and that one still seems to be running a little faster. I'll have to investigate this more this week. I'm a little confused about the game emulation vs. real game console comparison that you made. You're not moving the guy around, so it's really hard to tell if the game's speed is the same. #2644 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2017 17:50:13 -0500 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Emulator Speedup Comparison; was: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: markwcanon@... I am coming for your high score chris! I got 10640 today! :) #2645 Date: Mon, 6 Nov 2017 01:05:00 +0000 Subject: Escape Backstory, Part 1 From: Adam Trionfo This week I got a standing desk for my birthday. To try the desk out, I pulled out a ten-year old computer I have and installed a version of Linux onto it. I'm not very familiar with Linux anymore, so I choose Ubuntu and have been using a couple of book's from the library to make my way around the OS. Today, I decided to try using LibreOffice's word processor to write a backstory of Escape. I didn't finish it-- as it got a bit out of control and longer than I should have let it-- but I'll try to work on it more later this week. Even if it's just to wrap it up in a few paragraphs. The backstory is, well, not without its faults (okay, it's crap), but it was amusing to write it over the last couple of hours. I started it thinking it was going to be dry comedy, but then (as usually happens with my writing, it just took over my hands and kept steering itself in its own direction). Since I wasn't familiar with with Writer, I had to fight against the Linux word processor a little bit, but my words eventually came out smoothly (if an unpaved dirt road is smooth). Enjoy the story (which has barely been edited or re-written, sorry)... if you can! (Oh, and this is also my first email that I've sent from Linux, via Firefox, so I hope the formatting comes across okay.) Escape Background Story (Part 1) By Adam Trionfo The local zoo in your new neighborhood is a spiraling 1,000 story tower of glass and metal. On your first morning in your newly-assigned home city, the megalopolis of Neo Dallas on Texasipian III, the sun's reflections off of the zoo's windows shone directly into your closed eyes, waking you earlier than you wanted for your first day of work as a new custodian at Martinberg and Company. You quickly darkened the shades, but not before you cursed the unknown architect who thought it was a good idea to, seemingly, have all the sunlight that mirrored off the zoo collect neatly into your bedroom. As you grappled for the bed's wake-up bottom, you thought to yourself, “What a way to start my first day. With no sleep, I'll never be able to impress anyone with my abilities.” As with everyone else in this four planet system, you understand that first impressions mean everything. “Clock,” you ask, “What time is it?” Your clock answers weakly (as though it was only just waking up now too), “Sir, it is early. Go back to bed.” If only you had taken your clock's advice. Instead, you decided you may as well walk around your new neighborhood, maybe finding a place to get a quick breakfast. After you had finished with your sonic shower, you took your strength and agility pills (“stronger bones make a stronger man,” the ads promised) and headed out the door. When you reached street level you were about to take PubTran when you noticed that the reflection from the zoo's windows had not just been reflecting into your bedroom window. The sunlight seemed to be reflecting, at random times, onto random buildings that encircled the zoo. As you watched, you began to get the uneasy feeling that something wasn't quite right. No one else on the streets seemed to notice, or if they did, then they didn't care. The zoo was close, just a couple of blocks away. You decided to walk over there and see what was going on. There was a small niggle that told you to look closely around you. What did that mean? You wished you'd understood sooner, then you wouldn't be working your way down like this, one floor at a time. Well, who gets second chances? Instead of listening to your mind's warning, you instead felt as though the clock may have had the right idea. Sleeping-in on your first day of a new job would have probably had tragic consequences on the rest of your life, but could it really be worse than the situation that you find yourself in now? That's doubtful. The zoo's high-tech sign took up the entire length of the tower. Scrolling Infinite-Light washed over you. “This is it, folks,” announced the zoo's I-L sign, “the incredible Neo-Dal Zoo. Aliens from this world and this system aren't all that's awaiting you inside. Of course you'll see adorable Green, Red, and Yellow aliens including all of the galaxy's multiple varieties, but we also have the rare Small Green aliens too. Step inside, get out of the City-Smog and breath some Clean-Air (the cleanest in town!).” When the message was finished, it began to repeat itself. Like all I-L messages, each iteration of the words reinforced and pressed themselves into your mind. By the time you reached the zoo's entrance, you had forgotten all about your investigation of the building's reflecting light. All that was on your mind were those cute Greens, Reds, and Yellows. Plus, of course, you couldn't overlook those Small Greens (those were the best!). You had a tingling sensation in the back of your mind. You sensed that you had been manipulated into paying the zoo's entrance fee to see creatures that were not worth the price, but as any well-made Infinate-Light sign managed to do, you put up the price and walked into the interior of zoo, a building that you still haven't left. Inside, you were on high alert right away. There were flashing red lights everywhere. Or... maybe there weren't. You couldn't quite tell. You hadn't quite snapped back yet. You didn't know what those red lights might mean (if there really were any lights flashing at all), but it didn't look good. Somehow though, you were calmed by the lines of people who had entered with you. It might have been early morning, but any company that could afford an I-L sign was always busy. The cost of the sign was more than made up for by more business. A line of people moved slowly toward the hoverators. Other patron-customers were whisked up quickly to the floor of their choice. Floor 1: entrance, floors 1-333: greens, floors 334-667: reds, floors 668-999, yellows, and the top floor (where most people stopped first) held the must-see highly intelligent small greens. Of course, you couldn't see all the floors of the zoo in one day, but people tried to visit at least three floors so that they could see the three main aliens, and most people tried (if there was time) to see the top floor too. As the line wended its way around Banner Advertisements, you could see that security was on some sort of alert. Or was it? Damn, if only you'd come to your senses earlier, then you'd be at your new job. If that was even real. As expected, even if something was wrong, the zoo wouldn't tell the customers. As the first Rule of Business stated, “Profits above safety.” Then you saw it, the Blue Alien. Not just rare, but (supposedly) extinct, there was one right there coming down, alone, on the hoverator. Then the news which you'd been fed for the last two time-clicks all began to merge and settle into place. You were, like most other members of the commonwealth, suffering from Infinate-Light fatigue. For all practical purposes, you had lived your life asleep since you first read an I-L sign several months ago. Now you were awake. You were seeing the world as it actually was at this moment. As was the case with all those who recovered from the disease, your memories came back to you all at once. Now you're world is shaped by what happened over the last few hours. You had made your way up, alone, to the top floor of the zoo and seen the (or was it another), supposedly extinct, blue alien. As you had suspected, it had released all of the lesser aliens (the red, yellow and two varieties of greens). They wandered around all of the one-thousand floors of the tallest building on the planet. For, really, this was only a zoo to your kind. To the aliens, this building was a prison, and the blue had come to release its brethren. Your job, your true job, before the Fatigue had settled in, was to capture the aliens. Just as you reached the top floor on the hoverator, the blue had turned off the... [Wheh! I'll write more of this backstory, probably, this coming week. Man, this Arcadia business inspires me-- and I can't explain why at all!] #2646 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 04:54:55 +0000 Subject: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 3 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, November 5, 2017 at 10pm MST. Four people played Escape in this round. Did I overlook anyone's scores? Thanks to everyone who played… but what happened to Skylar and Milo? I guess that they were afraid to play against their dad! Also, my friend Christopher was over one day last week. He played too, but he felt his score was too low to submit (but it wasn't). Remember, this HSC is all for fun. I came in last place this round, but that doesn't matter to me. I still really enjoyed playing Escape. Escape Scores 10 - Chris++ - 12,170 9 - Mark Canon - 10,640 8 - James Jacobs - 9,750 7 - BallyAlley - 7,110 Several people earned bonus points. As usual, these few extra points made a significant difference this round. Here are this round's final standing: Escape Scores (Final Table) 1st Mark Canon 9 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 1 = 11 points !$ 2nd Chris++ 10 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 points 2nd BallyAlley 7 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 8 points # 3rd James Jacobs 8 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 8 points ! - Escape - Video Review - (1 Point) @ - Escape - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) # - Escape - Backstory - (1 Point) $ - Escape - Picture of Escape with Berzerk arcade game - (1 Point) No one documented any bugs for bonus points. I did notice one bug: sometimes you can destroy an alien, and then a shot will come from where they were just a moment ago. This issue happened to me a few times. It was really cool to see Robot Killer, Escape and the arcade version of Berzerk all set up for play in Mark's game room. Thanks for taking the time to set all of that up, man. This round's overall winner is Mark. I had a good time playing (at separate times) Escape with Chris and Christopher. It's neat to have friends who also enjoy playing classic (and quite obscure) game systems. Final Thoughts on Escape Escape is a pretty slow game, but once you play a few rounds of its somewhat pokey gameplay style, then you get used to it… and you'll even enjoy it! You have to play this game a few times in order to "get" its design, which is similar looking to Berzerk, but rather different once you get into the nitty-gritty of the game. I did notice that once Chris got past around the 10,000 point mark, the game did speed up quite a bit. The baddies got much deadlier: they seemed to move more often and they also fired faster. Next Round's Game: Funky Fish The main game for Round 4 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club is Funky Fish, a scrolling game that takes place under water. This game was announced for the Emerson Arcadia, but it wasn't ever released in the United States. It was released overseas. If you have a multicart, then you can play it on an Emerson system. If not, then you can play it under the Arcadia emulator. Like several other games in the Arcadia's game library, Funky Fish is based on an obscure arcade game. I need to play it a little tomorrow to see what the game options should be, but if you want to start "tackling" those underwater uglies, then "dive" right in! #2647 >Also, my friend Christopher was over one day last week. He played too, but he felt his score was too low to submit (but it wasn't). Christopher contacted me privately and said I was actually supposed to accept his score if he didn't submit another one to me. His score is from this past Friday, November 3, 2017: Escape - 3,870 (NTSC Emerson Arcadia 2001) Here is the updated score list: 10 - Chris++ - 12,170 9 - Mark Canon - 10,640 8 - James Jacobs - 9,750 7 - BallyAlley - 7,110 6 - Christopher - 3,870 Here is the updated final tables: 1st Mark Canon 9 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 1 = 11 points !$ 2nd Chris++ 10 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 points 2nd BallyAlley 7 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 8 points # 3rd James Jacobs 8 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 8 points 4th Christopher 6 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 6 points Thanks for submitting your score, Christopher. There's never a reason to feel like your score isn't good enough for the Arcadia HSC. The worst that can happen is that I'll just make fun of your puny little pile of four digits. Really, it is quite sad! Actually, I'm just giving Christopher a hard time. He was playing on my real hardware with my "sticky" Arcadia pads that don't work quite right. For working with such shoddy equipment, that is score is quite good. #2648 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 17:48:18 +0000 Subject: Re: Escape: HSC R3, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo In preparation for Round 4 of the Arcadia High Score Club, I wanted to have high quality versions of the rare Funky Fish manual. I contacted Mark Canon, and he scanned them in for me last week. I finally cleaned up the scans today and have uploaded the 63MB of files to archive.org, here: https://archive.org/details/FunkyFishGiGElectronicsLeonardoArcadia2001FamilyBoxScan01Front Funky Fish (1983)GiG Electronics Leonardo)(Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Scans) : GiG Electronics / U.A. Limited, Inc. / Licensed by Tehkan International Corporation. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive archive.org This archive includes scans of the box, manual, two overlays and cartridge for the 1983 game Funky Fish (cartridge No. 23) released for the Italian GiG... This archive includes scans of the box, manual, two overlays and cartridge for the 1983 game Funky Fish (cartridge No. 23) released for the Italian GiG Electronics Leonardo game system, part of the Arcadia console family. The scans are in PNG format. The manual has also been converted into a greyscale pdf file that has been OCRed. Funky Fish is a port of the 1981 arcade game Funky Fish by Sun Electronics. Funky Fish was also supposed to be released for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game system as cartridge #4, but the game remained unreleased in America. Here are the game's details from the back of the cartridge: Funky Fish Video Game Cartridge One or Two Player Game (Uses Left Side Controller) * Shoot the "flying-saucers" and they turn into cherries. * Catch the cherries and get points * When all cherries are eaten, you can get "energy" to continue to the next phase. * After 3 phases the scene changes and the number of phases increases * "Freeze" the game whenever you want to pause for any reason, resume action by pressing the "unfreeze" button * Colors rotate at end of game and automatically switches to demo mode after 5 minutes non-action. * Highest score remains on screen so next player can challenge * Great sound and color * Fun for all the family Here is the backstory of the Funky Fish manual: Don't be fooled -- at first glance Funky Fish may look like an innocuous creature from an uneventful environment, but look closer! Beneath the calm surface of the water a determined power struggle is in progress! His underwater world is populated with fascinating organisms -- and all of them can paralyse him at a touch! Naturally, Funky Fish has to be armed to survive in this ecosystem, and he is -- he can spit a poisonous dart at will with deadly accuracy. The cast in this submarine drama reads like a biology lesson, but it's much more exciting than that! Funky Fish vies with pink Asymetra and blue Photogyra for water space, but don't worry -- you don't have to remember the names, just remember that they're deadly! Now you no longer need be merely an observer outside the fish tank, with Funky Fish you can actually participate in the action! Your family and friends are going to enjoy the opportunity of being underwater without a bulky oxygen tank, too! It doesn't take long to become an expert, and when you are you can chalk up some really big points. Just read the instruction booklet and then have fun being in the swim! Thanks, Mark, for scanning your rare game in for us all! #2649 Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2017 17:52:58 -0500 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Added Funky Fish Hi-Res Scans to Archive.org From: markwcanon@... No problem Adam! My pleasure! ;) Also most people probably know but UAL also made funky fish for the 2600 but apparently never released it or the other Arcadia titles they ported to the 2600. #2650 Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2017 00:29:57 +0000 Subject: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 4 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, November 19, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Funky Fish, an unreleased game (in the United States) for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. Funky Fish is a home port of a hard-to-find arcade game released in 1981 by Sun Electronics. I have already posted the start of this round to the Classic Gaming General forum on AtariAge, here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/271841-arcadia-2001mpt-03-high-score-club-round-4-funky-fish/ I was able to get high resolution scans of the Funky Fish box, manual, cartridge and overlays for the Italian GiG Electronics Leonardo game system (a member of the Arcadia family), so that's what I'm presenting here. Special thanks to Mark Canon for scanning his own material for this rare game. Funky Fish was also released for Monaco Leisure's Tunix Home Arcade (New Zealand), Schmid TVG-2000 (Germany) and possibly also for a Hanimex system (but I'm not sure exactly for which console or country). Leonardo's cartridge #23, Funky Fish was also supposed to be released for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 game system as cartridge #4, but the game remained unreleased in America. Here is a screenshot of Funky Fish being played on an NTSC Emerson Arcadia console: Here is a three minute YouTube video of Funky Fish being played by "GuiasInfojuegos." He published this on March 3, 2013: https://youtu.be/NyNxQecqh7g Emerson Arcadia 2001 - [17] - Funky Fish - YouTube youtu.be Un juego de lo mas curioso. Alimenta a un pez amarillo lanzando misiles a una bichos amorfos para convertirlos en ricas cerezas. Para mas informacion visita... Here is the box for Funky Fish: Here is the cartridge for the Leonardo version of Funky Fish: Here are the overlays for Funky Fish: Sometime in the (I think) early 2000s, AtariAge.com released an Atari 2600 version of Funky Fish that had been found in prototype form. It had been programmed in 1983. Here are the front and back of the Atari 2600 release of Funky Fish: Funky Fish - Quick-Play Rules Play Funky Fish for high score on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. Other than for a two-player game, Funky Fish has no gameplay options. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("FunkyFish.bin" is the filename for Funky Fish): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Funky Fish - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. Funky Fish - 8k cart. 1983. Tunix #28. Licensed port of an obscure arcade game. Emerson catalogs from 5/82 and 7/82 say this game was "coming soon" but the game was never released in the USA. It was released by a handful of companies in non-U.S. markets. Those catalogs said; "Copyright 1981 Sun Electronics Corporation, Licensed by Tehkan International Corporation". The Tunix cart we archived came in long cart form, with a front label similar to the catalog's artwork. There may or may not be a rear label; Tunix carts in general were never very consistent from batch to batch. There is a hidden message found inside the program at Here is the cartridge for the Leonardo version of Funky Fish: Here are the overlays for Funky Fish: Sometime in the (I think) early 2000s, AtariAge.com released an Atari 2600 version of Funky Fish that had been found in prototype form. It had been programmed in 1983. Here are the front and back of the Atari 2600 release of Funky Fish: Funky Fish - Quick-Play Rules Play Funky Fish for high score on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. Other than for a two-player game, Funky Fish has no gameplay options. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("FunkyFish.bin" is the filename for Funky Fish): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Funky Fish - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. Funky Fish - 8k cart. 1983. Tunix #28. Licensed port of an obscure arcade game. Emerson catalogs from 5/82 and 7/82 say this game was "coming soon" but the game was never released in the USA. It was released by a handful of companies in non-U.S. markets. Those catalogs said; "Copyright 1981 Sun Electronics Corporation, Licensed by Tehkan International Corporation". The Tunix cart we archived came in long cart form, with a front label similar to the catalog's artwork. There may or may not be a rear label; Tunix carts in general were never very consistent from batch to batch. There is a hidden message found inside the program at $0FBB - 0FFB: "GAME COPYRIGHT 1983 UA LTD; GRAPHICS COPYRIGHT 1983 CHRIS CAPENER". Michael Davidson tracked Mr. Capener down, and we managed to ask him a few questions just before press time. He says that he wrote this game on contract with "UA Limited". He had never programmed that console before. He was given a Signetics development system, some manuals, and some example programming routines. He had three months to learn how to program the console, and to write the game from scratch. He says he wrote all of the game; he was not sure why the hidden message was worded like it was. LANDMARK: This game was later ported over to the Atari 2600 game system. We know this because Bill Esquivel, an Atari 2600 collector, found a 2600 cart with this title on its label. He said in a May 17, 1998 Usenet post on "rec.games.video.classic" that the 2600 game's title screen says "funky fish, round 1, lic tehkan corp 1983 ua ltd." See also "Cat Trax" and "Pleaides" for more intriguing info on other games ported over from the Arcadia to the 2600 in 1983 by UA Limited. Chris Capener did not know anything about this port; we asked. High quality scans of the Funky Fish box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/details/FunkyFishGiGElectronicsLeonardoArcadia2001FamilyBoxScan01Front FBB - 0FFB: "GAME COPYRIGHT 1983 UA LTD; GRAPHICS COPYRIGHT 1983 CHRIS CAPENER". Michael Davidson tracked Mr. Capener down, and we managed to ask him a few questions just before press time. He says that he wrote this game on contract with "UA Limited". He had never programmed that console before. He was given a Signetics development system, some manuals, and some example programming routines. He had three months to learn how to program the console, and to write the game from scratch. He says he wrote all of the game; he was not sure why the hidden message was worded like it was. LANDMARK: This game was later ported over to the Atari 2600 game system. We know this because Bill Esquivel, an Atari 2600 collector, found a 2600 cart with this title on its label. He said in a May 17, 1998 Usenet post on "rec.games.video.classic" that the 2600 game's title screen says "funky fish, round 1, lic tehkan corp 1983 ua ltd." See also "Cat Trax" and "Pleaides" for more intriguing info on other games ported over from the Arcadia to the 2600 in 1983 by UA Limited. Chris Capener did not know anything about this port; we asked. High quality scans of the Funky Fish box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/details/FunkyFishGiGElectronicsLeonardoArcadia2001FamilyBoxScan01Front Funky Fish (1983)GiG Electronics Leonardo)(Emerson Arcadia 2001)(Scans) : GiG Electronics / U.A. Limited. / Licensed by Tehkan International Corporation. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive archive.org This archive includes scans of the box, manual, two overlays and cartridge for the 1983 game Funky Fish (cartridge No. 23) released for the Italian GiG... For complete information about this game, visit the above link. I've included the important points form the manual here: Funky Fish Cart #23 for the Leonardo Video Game Instructions Introducing Funky Fish Don't be fooled -- at first glance Funky Fish may look like an innocuous creature from an uneventful environment, but look closer! Beneath the calm surface of the water a determined power struggle is in progress! His underwater world is populated with fascinating organisms -- and all of them can paralyze him at a touch! Naturally, Funky Fish has to be armed to survive in this ecosystem, and he is -- he can spit a poisonous dart at will with deadly accuracy. The cast in this submarine drama reads like a biology lesson, but it's much more exciting than that! Funky Fish vies with pink Asymetra and blue Photogyra for water space, but don't worry -- you don't have to remember the names, just remember that they're deadly! Now you no longer need be merely an observer outside the fish tank, with Funky Fish you can actually participate in the action! Your family and friends are going to enjoy the opportunity of being underwater without a bulky oxygen tank, too! It doesn't take long to become an expert, and when you are you can chalk up some really big points. Just read the instruction booklet and then have fun being in the swim! How to Play Funky Fish begins the conquest for mastery of the tank's ecosystem in the middle of five underwater sectors, the outside two of which are uninhabited in Round 1 only. You can see which sector you're in by watching the pink indicator in the top right of your screen -- white means occupied and blue means empty. OK Funky -- start swimming! You're in the sector controlled by the blue Binaria species. Listen and you'll hear the noise of the adult Binaria pulsating as she releases lethal Microns into the water. You can see that Funky has no ears, but he can hear vibrations in the water through his sensitive skin. Spear those little Microns with your poisonous dart and eat them when they become cherries! You have to be agile and avoid contact with any of the organisms, because with one touch your flesh shrivels and only your skeleton remains! After Funky devours six Binaria Microns, the adult Binaria transforms into a single cell containing a high concentration of energy. Swim in immediately and absorb energy -- watch it register on the horizontal indicator at the top left of the screen. Once your energy is renewed you start scoring for as long as the Binaria energy countdown lasts. Fix your beady eye on the countdown in the top middle of the screen and watch your score take off as soon as your energy is replenished! Now you're full of pep for the next sector! You can go either way -- let's go right for now, and encounter the pink Asymmetra. Don't forget that all organisms are lethal, even though they look so cute. Do the same to the Asymmetra as you did to the Binaria, and when you see the energy cell, go for it -- because if you run out of energy you lose a fish! If you've survived so far, well done! Now swim to the next sector, which is back to the left, and prey upon the pink Protozon Microns in the same manner. If you make it through Round 1, the other six Rounds have an added challenge. Poisonous pink seahorses float up from the depths at random -- so stay alert! All the following Rounds have all five sectors occupied with organisms, and the two extra ones are the blue Photogyra in the far right area and the blue Cytozoa in the far left! Have a look at the table under "Variations of the Game" for more data, because the odds change in each Round as the level of difficulty increases. So now you know what to do, you can concentrate on maximizing your score and have a lot of fun in the process! Variations of the Game Funky Fish can be played with one or two players at a time. The bottom line of the initial display tells you which version is in operation, and can be changed by pressing the SELECT button. One Player Game Use the right-hand controller for moving Funky Fish around. The present score is on the second from top line on the right hand side of your screen, and the Hi-score is displayed on the left side. Two Player Game Each player must complete the Round in turn before you can progress to the next one. The second from top line on your screen displays the scores of both players simultaneously. A small fish next to either of the scores will indicate who the current player is. The number of fish remaining for each player is shown on each side of the top line on your screen. In both versions of Funky Fish, the area between the scores shows the number of remaining Microns of the species just eaten. When an adult organism transforms into an energy cell, its countdown will take the place of the number of Microns until it reaches 0. The table below will outline variations in the game as the Rounds progress -- not quite as easy as you thought, is it? Round Number of Adult Number of Speed of Organisms Microns Microns 1 3 6 x 1 2 5 6 x 1 3 5 8 x 1 4 5 10 x 1 5 5 10 x 1.33 6 5 10 x 2 7 5 10 x 4 Don't forget the deadly sea-horses from Round 2 onwards! Starting the Game * Press START and the game begins. * If you want to see a demonstration of the game, press START and wait. After about ten seconds the Demo Mode will automatically take over and shows an example of Round 2 action, with Funky Fish firing darts at random. To stop the Demo Mode press RESET. * For "Freeze" press "Clear" and for "Unfreeze" press "Enter" on the left hand controller, or refer to the overlay provided for the controller. This is either a one-player or a two-player game. Press select to choose which game while the initial display shows on the screen. For one-player game use right-hand controller only. Using the Controllers Press the disc or move the joystick in the direction in which you want Funky Fish to swim. For instance, move it to the left if you want Funky Fish to swim to the left, or right for right, up for up and down for down. Press any button the controller, including the red ones, and Funky will spit his deadly dart. He has a limitless supply of darts. Freezing the Game Rrrrrring -- rrrrring! Rrrrrring -- rrrrring! Oh no -- that's the telephone ringing right in the middle of a game! Don't worry, Funky Fish has a unique feature -- just press FREEZE (CLEAR) on your left hand controller and the game stops instantaneously and waits for you to deal with the interruption. When you're ready again press UNFREEZE (ENTER) on your left hand controller and the action and sound continues where you left off. If necessary you can also reduce the volume on your TV until it's time for you to play again, but don't forget to turn it back on! Scoring The computer will score for you automatically, and retain the highest score in its memory bank for you or your friends to challenge in the one-player game. To keep the highest score on the screen, just press the START button for the next game. If you press the RESET button all scores will be wiped out. If you can get your score up to 30,000 a bonus fish is awarded. Now see what the Microns are worth: Round Points for Each Micron 1 100 2 100 3 100 4 100 5 200 6 500 7 1000 Tips to Keep Funky Fish in the Swim The quicker Funky can spear and eat the Microns the better -- he uses up less energy and then has more time to increase his score while in the energy cell. Watch out -- sometimes those crafty organisms release two Microns close together! Shoot twice before getting too near in case you miss one and it wipes you out! Eat up the cherries as fast as you can -- occasionally they just disappear! While in the energy cell keep a lookout for seahorses -- you're still fair game as far as they're concerned! Happy playing! Interview with Chris Capener, Programmer of Funky Fish Ward Shrake posted this "interview" with Chris Capener, the programmer of Funky Fish, to the Arcadia Yahoo group on November 28, 2002. This is the entire text version of the interview, including Ward's introduction and comments. The following is an edited interview with Chris Capener, who (among other cool things) programmed the game "Funky Fish" for the Arcadia 2001 family of consoles. The interview was originally conducted in April 2002 by two people (Ward Shrake and Michael Davidson) across multiple back-and-forth e-mails, making it necessary to edit the raw texts for clarity, space and orderly sequence, to become the interview below. All of Mr. Capener's comments are included here; nothing was held back if it had anything to do with the Arcadia 2001's history. To keep this text on-topic as much as possible, much of the back-story about the Arcadia 2001 console group's history was intentionally left out. Interested readers can read up on that through other sources, such as the recently printed book -- the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" (version seven) -- or on the "Yahoo! Groups" message boards where we hobbyist game researchers meet. Please note: often enough, it has been this game researcher's experience that a person's memory of long-ago events may at times be partially inaccurate, even if they had correct information to begin with, which is not always the case. I therefore mildly caution readers to take this interview as a good starting point for continued research, and not as finished "Gospel". For instance, Mr. Capener once says that "UA Limited" may have been a "contract manufacturer for Emerson". While UAL may have indeed been a contractor of some sorts, recent research makes it appear unlikely that Emerson was in charge of much of anything. Emerson was a (rather late) licensee in the United States, and that appears to be all. Philips, Signetics, and UA Limited were really the decision-making companies behind the global spread of this console and its game carts. But they may all have allowed or encouraged misleading information by various global licensees, making modern research difficult even when you are talking to a person like Chris Capener who helped write part of the console group's game software library. Enjoy the interview! We continue to be grateful to Mr. Capener for talking to us. -- Ward Shrake, November 2002 -- [Matt Reichert acquired an original copy of the hard-to-find cartridge game called "Funky Fish," made by Tunix of New Zealand for their local version of the Arcadia 2001 game console. He graciously loaned it to Ward Shrake for archiving purposes. Ward dumped the game's ROM image, then as is his habit, he looked through the ROM code for any hidden ASCII text messages. Such a message was found; it reads exactly as follows.] "GAME COPYRIGHT 1983 UA LTD; GRAPHICS COPYRIGHT 1983 CHRIS CAPENER". [Ward Shrake then passed this information to a small group of amateur video game history researchers he knew from the Internet. Michael Davidson then set out to see if he could track this named individual down, using the Google search engine and other resources. When Michael had successfully located the correct individual, he asked some brief initial questions. Mr. Capener's full response to Michael is as follows.] "Yes, I worked on Funky Fish and Jumpman Jr. (ColecoVision). UA Limited was a Hong Kong based company. I think they did OEM electronics manufacturing for various companies. So, I believe they were the contract manufacturer for Emerson. Funky Fish was the reason I first came to Silicon Valley. I had a three month contract to write the game for the Arcadia console. I took a leave of absence from my current job and moved out to the San Jose, CA area. During that time I met a programmer at StarPath and took a job there when Funky Fish was done. StarPath was later bought out by Epyx, where I ported Jumpman Jr. from the Commodore to Colecovision. All these games were written in assembly language. So porting meant playing it on one console and then writing the code and re-creating the graphics for the target system. Once I was here in Silicon Valley, I never went back." [Feeling he was not entirely sure what questions to ask next, Michael then turned the interview over to Ward. Ward introduced himself to Mr. Capener, noting that he was then writing the Arcadia 2001 section of the "Digital Press Collectors Guide" and would like to include whatever information he could get, in version seven of that printed book. The press deadline for that version was just a few weeks away, so Ward attempted to prioritize his questions and keep them relatively light. Ward first asked about the source materials that were supplied to Mr. Capener, during the conversion process from an original arcade game, to a cartridge game that would run on a home gaming console.] "This goes back a long time. I remember having the arcade game and some notes to work from." [Ward then asked about the specific hiring process, explaining that we researchers have only a very limited amount of knowledge about the currently mysterious "UA Limited" company, who seem to have been responsible for much of the Arcadia's game library.] "A former college roommate was related to an officer (president?) of UA. He approached me with the contract offer." [When asked about the hardware and software tools and training materials that were made available for writing the game, Mr. Capener responded as follows.] "I had a development system from Signetics with manuals for the processor and chipset of the console. I did not have contact with any other programmers. It was pretty much learn as you go. I believe that some utility routines and sample code came with the development system." [Figuring it was a long-shot but worth asking anyway, Ward asked if Mr. Capener knew anything about the overall licensing process itself, as it applied to other UAL games. Also, if he knew anything about the three games - Funky Fish, Cat Trax, and Pleiades -- that were later ported by UAL to the rival Atari 2600 machine, sometime during 1983.] "Sorry, I have no information on licensing or other ports of the games." [Ward asked for a clarification on the game ROM's hidden ASCII text message.] "I am not sure why the copyright is stated the way it is. Certainly the graphics had to be re-interpreted for the different resolution of the Arcadia. Perhaps since this was a port, it was felt that the overall copyright covering the game concept and game play should remain with UA. But I do know that I was the only one working on the port and that I did also write the code. (Except for the supplied utility routines.)" [Ward asked for a more specific date of creation, since most of the games for this home console were done in either 1982 or 1983, making a detailed timeline hard to create.] "As far as I can reconstruct, the port was done in the late summer/early fall of 1982." [Ward then asked for clarification on the actual hardware and/or software that made up the "development system from Signetics" mentioned above, but never got an answer on that. He was not overly surprised at its absence, given the way information about this console group was originally handled by those who were behind making it all. It seems that these secretive people-in-charge felt that "compartmentalization" was often a wise policy? In other words, sub-contractors or other non-insiders were rarely given much more information than they each really needed. Each separate outsider we meet seems to have been given a few pieces of the global puzzle, but they seldom had more. Some may be surprised, when they find out what consoles are now proven to be related to others, or to hear how widely these consoles managed to spread, globally. Modern researchers are only piecing things together as well as we have, because the Internet makes Global information-sharing much easier than it once was. In any case, at this point Ward felt that he ran a real risk of being a nuisance if he kept questioning Mr. Capener much longer. The book's press deadline was also rapidly approaching, so Ward decided to just leave Mr. Capener alone for awhile. Later, if and when we are able to uncover more raw information from other sources, maybe we will have additional good questions to ask? For now, it seems we're better off saving up for a "Round Two" when we have run out of sources like outside contractors to find more puzzle pieces. It is this author's opinion that until we compare notes from many such sources, we won't have enough new information ourselves, to be able to ask well-educated questions. An example of this is the three ported games that went to the rival Atari 2600 in 1983. It is still a mystery how "Cat Trax" ended up being included on an overseas, perhaps Atari-made "2600 Jr." console, which had 128 games built into it from the factory. The true relationships between the Elektor computer, the Interton VC-4000, and the Arcadia console groups are still cloudy, since people that worked on one machine rarely saw the others, thereby making things like identifying a "development system" difficult at best. So Ward now thanked Mr. Capener again for his time and answers, and left him alone.] End of interview Funky Fish Gameplay Options Funky Fish has no gameplay options. Play it in either one or two player mode. Just insert the cart, turn on the system and press the Start button and you're ready to go. It doesn't get any easier than that! Funky Fish (Scoring) We are playing for the highest score. 10 points are awarded for first place, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. Funky Fish (Bonus Points): There are quite a few ways to earn bonus points this round: Funky Fish - Video Review - (1 Point) - I did find gameplay footage of this game, but I couldn't find any video reviews. Anyone who makes a video review of Funky Fish will get a bonus point. Funky Fish - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - Arcadia games can be flaky. If anyone find any problems, and documents them, then you'll earn one bonus point. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Funky Fish - Backstory - (1 Point) - Funky Fish, as presented in the manual for the Leonardo version of the game, has plenty of background material already provided. Remember when manuals weren't readily available on the Internet? Then we had to figure-out the games for ourselves and come up with our own ideas for why we were supposed to be doing. What's the deal with Funky Fish? According to you, what's his motivation? Funky Fish - Atari 2600 Version - (1 Point) - Play the Atari 2600 version of this game and earn a bonus point. Funky Fish - Arcade Version - (1 Point) - Play the arcade version of Funky Fish and earn a bonus point. Summary Though I have played Funky Fish before, I'm not overly familiar with it. During this round I look forward to learning its ins and outs. I'm also going to compare it to the Arcade version and to the 2600 home port. We didn't get any players for round three of the HSC from AtariAge.com, but I'm hoping that this round attracts a few additional players/competitors. If you know any classic gamers, then let them know about this HSC. As always, as you play Funky Fish, please post pictures of your scores as the round progresses. Not only does this help you not forget to play the game, but it gives other player's a challenge to try to beat your score. If you've not played in a round before now, then now's the time to join in! Have a fun fourth round, everyone... and don't be worried if this is your first round of play. We've all got to start somewhere, right? #2651 Date: 09 Nov 2017 20:33:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: darrin9999@... 17,700 #2652 Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2017 18:22:32 -0500 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 [2 Attachments] From: markwcanon@... Alright! A nice sized early on score to try and beat!!! :) Nice work Darrin! #2653 Date: 10 Nov 2017 15:11:20 +0000 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 [2 Attachments] From: darrin9999@... 28,000 just a bit better! #2654 Date: Sat, 11 Nov 2017 00:04:19 -0500 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 [1 Attachment] From: markwcanon@... Well we skipped going to a movie tonight to stay home and play some funky fish! Just skylar and i, milo was to tired :P But we both did well and gave you guys some fierce competition lol Skylar didn't even die till past 50,000, and said I think what determines how high a score you can get at funky fish is based on how long you can deal with playing funky fish hahaha ha .....but at level 6 the game greatly ramped up.....and level 7 it gets crazy! It actually got to be quite fun as it got harder. I got: 64825 Sky got: 91225 And the strange thing (and I guess this counts as a glitch documentation for sky) shortly into level 7 his fish just up and died for no reason. As you can see in the end pic nothing has hit him....unless level 7 implements spontaneous death?!?! Well we had a fun time! :) #2655 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 22:15:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo I played Sun's arcade version of Funky Fish in MAME. The game plays much differently than the Arcadia 2001 game. Remember, we're not playing arcade or Atari 2600 versions of Funky Fish for high score; we're just doing it for the fun of it. Here's my score (just for the heck of it!) and screenshot: Funky Fish - 10,800 (Arcade game, played under MAME 0.149) For some reason, my Funky Fish screenshot's aspect ratio was screwed up (it was far taller than it was wide). I have to fix it in Photoshop. Some notes on the Arcade version of Funky Fish: 1) Funky Fish plays far faster than the Arcadia version. The speed reminds me of what you might expect from Defender. That's a good thing! 2) The little weird creatures that you're shooting are quite small (much smaller than the baddies on the Arcadia). They're hard to hit. 3) It seems like the fruits (cherries, strawberries, etc) turn back into the baddies, not on a time limit, but as they near the bottom of the screen. Can anyone back me up on this? [Tempest, on the AtariAge forums seems to agree with me on this point.] 4) Once the baddies are released from the "eye," they don't return "home" to it as they do on the Arcadia. Instead, they just wander around the screen if you don't shoot them. If you get the chance, then I urge other players to try this arcade game; I had fun with it. I tried to find a Funky Fish arcade flyer and some background on the game, but I didn't have any luck. Can someone please help me with the game's background? What countries was this released in? [In the AtariAge forums, Tempest pointed me to an arcade flyer.] This is a cute game; I'm surprised that it didn't get an American release (or did it?). I wonder if Atari had a chance to pick it up; after all, they did release Sun's much-more famous game, Kangaroo. #2656 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 22:21:49 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo Tempest, on 16 Nov 2017 - 2:30 PM, said: >Some Funky Fish info including the flyer: >http://www.arcade-museum.com/game_detail.php?game_id=7864 >The flyer is in English so I'm guessing it was released in the US, just in very small quantities. Thanks for the link to the flyer. It's worth posting it here, as it's got cool artwork! I used a combination of OCR and retyping to get a readable version of the flyer. I love the "funky" English that is used in it (and, uh, sometimes the odd choice of words). Here's what the arcade flyer says: Hey, Deep Sea-Monster! I'm Gonna Eat You Up. Ok? Right, I'm big, big... Funky Fish Look! This mighty bubble shooting! Enjoy another new type of game shooting, swallowing and sucking... Funky Fish, while traveling underwater and approaching a deep-sea monster, is going to meet attacks by a group of small enemy fish that are defending the monster. Operate the Funky Fish and let it shoot bubbles against each of these attacking fish until all of them turn into fruits (They vary from one game to another. It is a cherry at the first round of a game. It will be a different fruit each time the game advances into a later round.) Don't miss any fish-turned-into-fruit but let Funky Fish swallow each one of them before they drop and land on the bottom of the sea. The fruit, upon reaching the seabed, is geared to awaken a sleeping seashell down there. The shell would activate a sea horse to drift up for attack against the Funky Fish. Eat up all the attacking fish-turned-fruits Then you will find the deep-sea monster turn into a fuel station. Let Funky Fish quickly approach and override it for fueling to depart for an extended underwater exploration. There you will wind up conquering a round of the game. Why not continue underwater navigation with Funky Fish onto a more sophisticated round of game? Here are tips to play the game with greater excitement: - Shoot bubbles to transform the enemy into a variety of fruits. - Be sure to swallow each falling fruit. - Go, shoot out the tongue to snatch the fish. - Suck up the fuel of deep-sea monster by overriding it. - Suck up the fuel of deep-sea monster by shooting the tongue to it. Well, Arcadia fans, that's Funky Fish gaming wisdom directly from the arcade flyer! I really like oddball games like this one. These nearly-unknown games never seem to get any attention, but sometimes they are worth investing some time into them. It's good to be able to understand that not every 1980s arcade game was a classic. Though, sometimes just a good game, like Funky Fish seems to be, is better when you start trying to understand the intricacies of the game's play mechanics. #2657 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 22:38:58 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo Rather than using real hardware, I ended up playing the Atari 2600 version of Funky Fish using the Stella emulator under Windows 7. To play the game, I used my All-Play 4/8 Supreme 78 joystick by Edladdin (these joysticks are so sweet; get one now!). Here's a screenshot and my score: Funky Fish - 8,870 (Atari 2600 using Stella emulator) The Atari 2600 game is pretty hard to play, although I do think it's fair. The seahorses are really quite difficult to get past, even upon your first encounter with them. That's because they swarm around you in a large group. Also, the baddies sort of "pulse" from one size to another, and they seem only to be able to be hit at their smallest size. I thought it was collision detection issue until I noticed it was consistent. I love how much color the Atari 2600 version of Funky Fish has to it. I like it's color scheme better than the arcade game, which looks dull in comparison. I'm going to try to play the Atari version of Funky Fish on real hardware with my friend tomorrow night. I'm glad that AtariAge made an official release of Funky Fish. It doesn't get a lot of love, but it's not a bad game. Does anyone know if the Atari release is actually finished? It seems to be complete to me (but I only got to level 2). #2658 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:46:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo >Well we skipped going to a movie tonight to stay home and play some funky fish! Now THAT is Arcadia dedication! >But we both did well and gave you guys some fierce competition lol Yes, those are two great scores (especially Sky's score of about 91K). How many games did it take him to get that score? >the strange thing (and I guess this counts as a glitch documentation for sky) shortly into level 7 his fish just up and died for no reason. As you can see in the end pic nothing has hit him....unless level 7 implements spontaneous death?!?! Sky reached the kill screen; damn kids! #2659 Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2017 20:48:54 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo Here is my current high score for Arcadia's round four game: Funky Fish - 44,925 (Real NTSC Emerson Arcadia 2001) This game is pretty fun, and it works surprisingly well with the Arcadia's sometimes awkward controller. I think I found a small programming bug (or maybe this is supposed to happen?). If a cherry hits a seahorse, then the cherry disappears and the seahorse turns into a cherry. I only saw this happen one time, but I also only saw this rare occurrence once. Other than that, I agree with Tempest; this game is nicely coded. I especially like the circular, predictable, motion of the cherries. I do wish that Funky Fish started out a little more difficult: level one is like a kiddie level. Maybe starting the game at level two or three would be better. Certainly if this game had a level select, then I would have chose to have this round start on level 3. My highest level reached so far is level four, where everything starts moving around pretty fast. Tempest has inspired me to go hook up my Atari 2600 to play Funky Fish. It was something of a shock to see the 2600 screenshot of Funky Fish that Tempest took. The 2600's amount of colors on-screen at once look great. Note that I'm going out of town on Monday for nearly a week for Thanksgiving. The high scores for this round will be posted after I get back. I'll try to post the start of round five (Space Raiders) before I leave town. #2660 Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 02:39:53 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: James Jacobs I got 90,125. Screenshot is at http://amigan.yatho.com/FunkyFishHighScore.jpg There is definitely a bug which can cause lives to be lost unfairly. In my case I lost 2 lives instead of 1 (died, then instantly died again). Round 7 was not a kill screen for me, but I suspect both of these "losing lives for no reason" occurrences are probably symptoms of the same root bug. Also, after the game has been paused for about 4 minutes, it goes into the demo mode. Presumably this was coded deliberately but it is not documented in the manual and thus might be considered a bug; it ruined one game I was playing :-( I also played the coin-op on MAME and the Atari VCS conversion on Stella. The Atari version is dire; the Arcadia version wipes the floor with it in most aspects :-( The coin-op has the interesting feature that on round 3 you stop spitting bullets and instead have to poke your tongue out to catch the fishes. >The flyer is in English so I'm guessing it was released in the US, just in very small quantities. Well, there are other English-speaking countries ;-) But the page at http://flyers.arcade-museum.com/?page=flyer&db=videodb&id=417&image=1 says "Region: USA". #2661 Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2017 23:28:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo With one day to go, here are the current scores (on from the Yahoo group and Atari Age forums) for Funky Fish: 1st - Skylar - 91,225 2nd - James Jacobs - 90,125 3rd - Tempest - 83,300 4th - Darrin9999 - 61,800 5th - Mark Cannon - 64,825 6th - BallyAlley - 44,925 I won't have a chance to post the final scores of this round until I get back into town after Thanksgiving. Likely the scores will go up on November 20th (halfway through round 5). #2662 Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2017 16:50:38 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo Tempest posted his new score the round 4 HSC thread on AtariAge: 112,275 - Round 7 Tempest also made these comments, which I'm sharing below in case someone has some ideas about them. Tempest said: By round 7 the cherries are almost manic in their speed. But I died from plain old greed. I wonder if the death by nothing bug is somehow related to the seahorses. I ran into it three times in one game and never again. Given that I was no where near the enemy base when I died, I wonder if it was somehow by an 'invisible' seahorse? Just a theory. BTW is there something that gives you a big bonus jump? I swear my score jumped quite a bit now and then, but I can't figure out why or how. Maybe grabbing a certain number of cherries in a short time? #2663 Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2017 00:54:40 +0000 Subject: Space Raiders for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 5 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 5 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Space Raiders, a game released in 1982 for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. Space Raiders is a side-scrolling game, a bit like Defender … except there is no one to defend except yourself. Here is a screenshot of Space Raiders being played on an NTSC Emerson Arcadia console: Here is a two minute YouTube video of Space Raiders being played by "Rickstilwell1 - TheGameCollector." The quality isn't great (the screen is completely crooked), but this is the only video of Space Raiders that I could find that is being played on real hardware. He published this on Dec 22, 2008: https://youtu.be/3l9Ar7f95Gk TheGameCollector Plays Space Raiders for Emerson Arcadia 2001 youtu.be Me playing Space Raiders Here is the box for Space Raiders: Here is the cartridge for Space Raiders: Here are the overlays for Space Raiders: Here is the manual's cover: Space Raiders - Quick-Play Rules Play Space Raiders for high score on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. Space Raiders has no gameplay options. Just shoot the baddies (mutants and flying saucers), bomb the missile-launching bases and make sure to refuel from time to time. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("SpaceRaiders.bin" is the filename for Space Raiders): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Post pictures of your high scores here. Use the left-hand controller to play the game. The fire button, or any of the middle-column buttons on the gamepad, shoots your laser gun. The right column buttons drops your bombs. You can "freeze" (pause) the game by pressing the left-hand column of keys. You can "un-freeze" the game by pressing the right-hand column. Space Raiders - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. Space Raiders - Emerson Confirmed. 4k cart. 1982. #1016 (5). This is the legalized version of a "Defender" clone. One player game. Left side controller. Long cartridge. Game by "UA Limited". Emerson family label art shows a small triangular space ship and a helicopter… both are flying in outer space. They were apparently attacking some sort of space ship or station. These crafts were veiled hints to consumers that the game included game play elements from the arcade games "Defender" and "Scramble"… which was how they legalized it. Space Raiders - Hanimex Confirmed. 4k. #MC1029 (26). See the FAQ for a U.K.-based magazine article which talked about early plans to make a version of the arcade game "Defender". ("Computer and Video Games," June 1982). The ROM code includes about 16 bytes of what appears to be the original assembly code at the tail end of the memory map. (See "American Football".) LANDMARK: This is the legalized version of "Space Squadron," which was a more obvious clone of "Defender". When game makers began to fear lawsuits for copyright infringement, they watered the similarities down by adding some features of "Scramble" into the game play. High quality scans of Space Raiders box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/details/SpaceRaidersEmersonArcadia2001 Since I'm short on time this week, I'm not going to include the manual. The game does play very simply: just shoot everything! Maybe I'll include the manual in another post in a week or so. Scoring Each Mutant Destroyed - 5 points Each flying saucer destroyed - 20 points Each Missile Launching base paralyzed - 10 points Space Raiders Gameplay Options This game has no gameplay options for this game. Space Raiders (Scoring) We are playing for the highest score. 10 points are awarded for first place, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. Space Raiders (Bonus Points): There are quite a few ways to earn bonus points this round: Space Raiders - Video Review - (1 Point) - I didn't find any proper reviews of this game. I tried to get some video of it, but as was the case with Funky Fish, because the background screen is black, my camera kept going in and out of focus. I'd really like to see some quality video of this game being played on actual hardware. Space Raiders - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - As we've been discovering for ourselves, Arcadia games can be flaky. If anyone find any problems, and documents them, then you'll earn one bonus point. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Space Raiders - Backstory - (1 Point) - Funky Fish had a backstory, but Space Raiders gives us nothing. Write a background that may have been included with the game in 1982 and you'll get a bonus point. Summary Space Raiders is a scrolling game. The Arcadia hardware doesn't seem to designed to scroll very well, so it's neat to see a game like this place on this platform. The premise seems simple: shoot and refuel. I think that this game may be fun; we'll all find out together. As always, as you play Space Raiders, please post pictures of your scores as the round progresses. Not only does this help you not forget to play the game, but it gives other player's a challenge to try to beat your score. If you've not played in a round before now, then now's the time to join in! Have a fun fifth round, everyone! (Don't forget, I'll be posting the final scores for round 4, Funky Fish, in about a week.) #2664 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 20:37:09 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Raiders for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 5 From: Adam Trionfo Here are the game instructions for Space Raiders. I hope some people join in and begin playing this round's game soon. Space Raiders for Emerson Arcadia 2001 Video Game Instructions Cart No. 5 - Part No. 1016 Object of the Game The object of the game is to score as many points as possible. Points are achieved when the Spacefighter destroys the mutants, flying saucers and missile launching bases. Each Mutant destroyed 5 points Each Flying Saucer destroyed 20 points Each Missile Launching Base paralyzed 10 points The player controls the motion of the Spacefighter up and down as well as left and right by using the control disc/joystick (see FIG. 3). When controlling the Spacefighter in sideward motion, an accelerating sound can be heard and a propelling flame will appear at the end of Spacefighter. There is a digital energy meter on the upper middle portion of the screen. It starts at 50 and counts down for every Spacefighter. Five Spacefighters are provided for each game. The number of the Spacefighers left appears on top of the screen next to the energy meter. If Spacefighter runs out of energy and can not be re-energized and when the energy meter drops to zero, it will explode. When all your Spacefighters are destroyed, the game is over. The Spacefighter can be destroyed by the mutants, flying saucers and energy bombs from flying saucers and missiles and bombs from the missile launcher bases. If colliding with them, however, it may shoot them down by using the laser gun. To re-energize, the Spacefighter has to paralyze the missile protected energy station which sometimes appears at the bottom of screen (see FIG. 4). By bombing the two missile launching bases they will turn into deep blue color that means they are being PARALYZED. The Spacefighter then may land onto the energy station for re-energizing but still watching out for bombs from flying saucers. After re-energized, the Spacefighter has to fetch another or the same energy station which will appear after certain distance. Sometimes it will not appear on the screen until the Spacefighter travels certain distance in one direction. When all your Spacefighters are destroyed, the game is over. Playing the Game After pressing the "START" button, numbers should appear inside the blue colored bar. THIS IS A SINGLE PLAYER GAME, USE ONLY THE LEFT HAND CONTROLLER FOR GAME. The Spacefighter will appear after depressing any "FIRE" key on keyboard or squeezing any Action Switch located at the side of the hand controller. To move the Spacefighter, press control disc (or move joystick) towards the desired direction (see FIG. 3) To fire the laser gun, press any "FIRE" key on keyboard or squeeze either Action Switch at the side of hand controller, shots from laser gun will be directed to left or right according to the direction of Spacefighter. To bomb the missile launching bases, press any "DROP BOMB" key on keyboard. The paralyzing bombs can destroy missile bases only. They cannot destroy mutants, flying saucers or energy bombs. For re-energizing, the Spacefighter has to be maneuver to the peak of the "PARALYZED" energy station (see FIG. 5) and stop there until re-energizing is finished or as long as possible before being attacked by flying saucers. Each Spacefighter can be re-energized as many times as possible from the energy stations, however energy level will not resume to its original level. For re-energizing, the energy level can reach back only up to 40 at the first station, for second station it will be up to 30, and for the third station onward, maximum energy level for the Spacefighter can only be up to 20 after fully re-energized. Scoring will be obtained by destroyed mutants, flying saucers and paralyzing missile launching bases. Scoring will be calculated by the computer and recorded at the upper left corner of screen inside the blue colored bar. Press "FIRE" key or squeeze action button whenever the Spacefighter is being destroyed. The total number of Spacefighters left is shown just beside the energy level meter. When the game is over, the color of screen will change to brightness and the blue colored bar changes into red. If the scoring is highest, it will be transferred automatically to the upper right corner inside the color bar until another higher score is being achieved. To maintain highest score on the screen, merely press "START" button for the next game. Do not depress "RESET", otherwise highest score will be wiped out. #2665 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2017 21:19:17 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 4 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, November 19, 2017 at 10pm MST. Six people played Funky Fish in this round. I came in last place again this round; I still had fun, especially watching as people's scores really began to climb higher. I enjoyed playing Funky Fish more than I expected, but I was a bit disappointed that I couldn't do a bit better. Funky Fish Scores 10 pts - Tempest - 112,275 9 pts - Skylar - 91,225 8 pts - James Jacobs - 90,125 7 pts - Darrin9999 - 61,800 6 pts - Mark Cannon - 64,825 5 pts - BallyAlley - 44,925 Several people earned bonus points. As usual, these few extra points significant differences this round. Here are this round's final standing: Funky Fish Scores (Final Table) 1st - Tempest 10 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 13 points -@$%- 2nd - Skylar 9 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 points -@--- 3rd - James Jacobs 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 9 points -@--- 4th - BallyAlley 5 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 1 = 8 points -@-$% 5th - Darrin9999 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points ----- 5th - Mark Cannon 6 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points -@--- ! - Funky Fish - Video Review - (1 Point) [No points awards] @ - Funky Fish - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) # - Funky Fish - Backstory - (1 Point) [No points awards] $ - Funky Fish - Playing the Atari 2600 Version - (1 Point) % - Funky Fish - Playing the Arcade Version - (1 Point) This round's overall winner is Tempest. Please check your final score, as it's possible that I overlooked a couple of bonus points, since quite a few people posted both on AtariAge and the Arcadia Yahoo group. I wanted to do a video review of Funky Fish, but I couldn't get my camera to focus properly on the screen because of the black background. I'm having the same issue with round 5's game, Space Raiders. I'm trying to work out some other method to record gameplay of Emerson games using an old DVD recorder (which is old, but still to "new" to have an RF input). Despite Tempest's initial remarks about this Funky Fish seeming to have no bugs, the more we played it, the more it became clear that there were quite a few of them. The worst one is when our lovable funky fish seems to die for no reason. Final Thoughts on Funky Fish Funky Fish is a nice Arcadia game; it's really too bad that it wasn't released in America. That's especially true because it was programmed in the United States. The three different versions that I played (Arcadia, Arcade and the Atari 2600) are all fun in different ways. This is a game that I'll likely come back to now and again. Next Round's Game: Space Raiders The main game for Round 5 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club is Space Raiders. It is a side-scrolling game shoot-em up. This game was released in the U.S., so you'll be able to play it without a multicart. Come and join us in round 5 where we'll all be destroying mutants, flying saucers and paralyzing missile launching bases in the comically-generic named Space Raiders. You can post your scores here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/272260-space-raiders-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-1-round-5/ Remember that round 5 started a week ago. With only about a week to go, there are no scores submitted yet. Thanks for playing in round 4, everybody! #2666 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2017 22:06:08 +0000 Subject: Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: Adam Trionfo I know that the Arcadia 2001 is limited to 8 colors, but is there any software for the system that creates color bars and/or other test patterns? I'm looking for software that can create at least an image that looks like (or is at least similar to) this pattern: I need a color bar generator for the Arcadia 2001 because: 1) I'll be using a DVD recorder (a Sony RDR GX-255) to record NTSC Arcadia 2001 video. 2) I'm using an RF demodulator (an Ambery RFDM2) to get the RF out of the Arcadia and convert it to composite (the only input that the DVD recorder has). 3) The composite output of the RF demodulator isn't perfect (the colors are washed out). I think that this is because the chrominance (the color portion of the video signal) is low. Unfortunately, the demodulator has no adjustments on the outside or the inside of the box. 4) Since the colors will be off (by quite a bit), I'll be adjusting the video recordings in post production using Adobe Premiere Elements. At least, that's my current idea. It's been a long while since I programmed for the Arcadia (and even then, my skills were weak). Is anyone up for programming a color bar generator program for the Arcadia? James-- do you have the time to knock-out this little project? #2667 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:54:18 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: James Jacobs >Is anyone up for programming a color bar generator program for the Arcadia? James-- do you have the time to knock-out this little project? It is more straightforward to do them as horizontal bars. I have now created such a program, it is called Rainbow.bin and is at http://amigan.yatho.com/examples.rar #2668 Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2017 17:31:18 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: Adam Trionfo Talk about fast service-- thanks for creating a color bar program, James! Horizontal lines will work for me (since I'm just using my eyes to judge the proper color), but I don't think that they wouldn't work if I were trying to use the horizontal bars with test equipment to really get the colors perfect. However, close-enough is fine with me. Right now the colors are really washed out (my red looks light pink, almost white). I'll try using this Color Bar program today or tomorrow. I should be able to burn it to an EPROM without issue. #2669 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 01:38:59 +0000 Subject: Rainbow.bin fails on real hardware? was: Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: Adam Trionfo I tried James' rainbow.bin under his Arcadia emulator. It worked fine. I tried it on real hardware and it doesn't come up (I get various crashes screens). Here's how I tested rainbow.bin on my NTSC Arcadia 2001: 1) Filled rainbow.bin small ROM image to "standard" 4KB size and tried under emulation. I filled-out the near-empty ROM image with FF. It worked fine under emulation. 2) Burned rainbow.bin to 4KB EPROM and inserted it into my EPROM cart. It doesn't work. 3) Burned Cat Trax to EPROM to verify 4KB EPROM cartridge. Cat Trax worked fine on 4KB EPROM with my 4KB EPROM cart. 4) Erased two different EPROMs and burned 4KB rainbow.bin to EPROM. Neither worked on real hardware. James, have you verified that rainbow.bin works on real hardware? If it does for you, then do you have any suggestions for me? Can anyone else test rainbow.bin on real hardware? #2670 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 17:41:20 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Rainbow.bin fails on real hardware? was: Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: James Jacobs >James, have you verified that rainbow.bin works on real hardware? No, I don't have a RAM cart. >If it does for you, then do you have any suggestions for me? Can anyone else test rainbow.bin on real hardware? Maybe the Arcadia is generating an interrupt at some point. (The program doesn't turn off interrupts, nor is does it handle them. The assumption that was made is that the Arcadia doesn't generate interrupts. Interesting if it does; I may have to write a program to determine under exactly what circumstances such interrupts are generated, if you wouldn't mind running that for me?) The Tester3.bin program should be on all semi-recent multicarts. After 3 or 4 firebutton presses, it should bring up a display similar to the rainbow one. Anyway it would be easy enough to upgrade Rainbow.bin to V1.01 to handle interrupts or whatever other compatibility issue is causing problems. #2671 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 17:00:32 +0000 Subject: Re: Rainbow.bin fails on real hardware? was: Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: Adam Trionfo I just tried out Tester3 under the Arcadia emulator. It works. I burned it to a 4K EPROM and tested it on my real NTSC Arcadia 2001. It doesn't work; the screen comes up in various garbage screens on startup. The source code for Tester3 says that the program has been tested on a real PAL Arcadia unit, and it worked to some degree. I'm going to try burning my Mothership program to see if that works... as I've tested it on real hardware before. My mothership program isn't perfect, but it comes up with SOME display. James, I can test any programs that are 4K or less on my Arcadia 4K EPROM cart. May I suggest that your 2650 source code always pad-out a binary to an even 2K, 4K or 8K boundary? I'm not sure if the 2650 assembler can do that automatically for you, but I do this when I'm using the ZMac Z80 assembler. #2672 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 17:09:50 +0000 Subject: Dual 2650/Z80 CPU Computer! From: Adam Trionfo I listen to an Atari 8-bit podcast called ANTIC. Yesterday, I listened to Interview 295 with Harry Stewart, who, among many other things, programmed the Pilot and WSFN programming languages for the Atari. I'm mentioning it here because in the 1970s he owned and programmed a computer that had both a Z80 and a Signetics 2650 in it. I can't remember what the computer is called (I'm not 100% sure he even mentioned it by name), but you can listen to the interview yourself here: http://ataripodcast.libsyn.com/antic-interview-295-harry-stewart-pilot-and-wsfn ANTIC The Atari 8-bit Podcast: ANTIC Interview 295 - Harry Stewart, Pilot and WSFN ataripodcast.libsyn.com Has anyone heard of any computer that uses both a Z80 and a Signetics 2650 CPU before now? #2673 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2017 18:15:29 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Rainbow.bin fails on real hardware? was: Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: Adam Trionfo Hold off on revising your Arcadia rainbow program, James. My EPROM cart may have a cold solder joint. Let me check it out. I can't believe that the Arcadia's cartridge PCBs aren't plated through-hole. Since they're not plated, it requires some of the component's pins to be soldered on the wrong side of the board. This is truly a no-no... but not for UA Limited. It also makes soldering some of the pins quite difficult because they're hard to reach both the pin and the solder pad to get proper heat transfer. I may have a cold solder joint that I can't see. I need to test my RAM cart quite thoroughly today. #2674 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 17:15:40 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Rainbow.bin fails on real hardware? was: Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: harvey_d Did anyone get the color bar generator file to successfully on a real Arcadia yet? I just tried it. I get a continually flashing screen, mostly green, with a purple(?) bar at the bottom. #2675 Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2017 17:32:13 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Rainbow.bin fails on real hardware? was: Arcadia 2001 Color Bar Generator? From: Adam Trionfo I have not been able to get any EPROM I make to run on real hardware now. I've checked my EPROM cart in every way I know how. The connections seem to be good. The EPROMs (even of released carts) seem to be okay. I'm not sure what to check next. #2676 Date: 03 Dec 2017 04:38:35 +0000 Subject: Re: Funky Fish: HSC R4, Game for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 4 From: amigansoftware@... >May I suggest that your 2650 source code always pad-out a binary to an even 2K, 4K or 8K boundary? I'm not sure if the 2650 assembler can do that automatically for you Yes, ORGF $800,$FF or similar at the end of the program will do this on Ami/WinArcadia's built-in assembler. VACS also supports generation of padding with the right command line argument IIRC. Attached is my high score of 4,160 for Space Raiders. I also noticed that it seems a bit random about whether it will let you refuel or not. >Has anyone heard of any computer that uses both a Z80 and a Signetics 2650 CPU before now? Some coin-ops do, and IIRC there were some S-100 systems with a choice of CPUs, but I've not heard of a desktop machine using both. #2677 Date: Sun, 3 Dec 2017 17:48:33 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Raiders for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 5 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >Attached is my high score of 4,160 for Space Raiders. I also noticed that it seems a bit random about whether it will let you refuel or not. That's a great score! I reposted your score on the AtariAge forums to give us all something to aim for there too. I thought that the refueling was a bit random too... but I think it's more that your position on the refueling station must be near-pixel perfect. It's also nice to know that if you avoid refilling to 100% that you can refill at the same station quite a few times. You start off with 50 fuel "points". On your next refill, you got 40, then 30 and eventually only 20 "points" of fuel. If you use the first station to refill to anything less than 40 on your very first refull, then you can keep using it over and over and keep refilling to near-40. It does seem to eventually stop allowing this... but that might just be random too. However, as you can see from my just-over-2000 point score that this trick hasn't helped me much. I almost always get killed by a flying saucer's shot. #2678 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 04:03:28 +0000 Subject: Added Brain Quiz Hi-Res Scans to Archive.org From: Adam Trionfo In preparation for Round 6 of the Arcadia High Score Club, I wanted to have high quality versions of the Brain Quiz material. I contacted Mark Canon, and he scanned them in for me last week. Thanks, Mark! I cleaned-up the scans today and have uploaded the 62.5MB of files to archive.org, here: https://archive.org/details/BrainQuizEmersonArcadia2001ScansandManual The archive includes scans of the box, manual, overlays and cartridge for the game Brain Quiz for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. This game includes three games: Mindbreaker (Mastermind), Maxit, and Hangman. The scans are in PNG format. The manual has also been converted into a greyscale pdf file that has been OCRed. Here are the game's details from the back of the box: One or Two Player Game Two controller overlays guide player. 3 games in 1. Game 1: Mindbreaker Your opponent puts 5 numbers into the computer and you must guess the numbers and the sequence. This is "brain baffling." You can also play against the computer. Game 2: Maxit Try to get the "maximum" score. Play against the computer or against a friend. Games of wits and concentration. Game 3: Hangman Two player. Your opponent enters a word and you must guess it by process of inserting letters. If you lose, a "hanged effigy" appears. Lots of fun. Especially for the youngsters just learning to spell. Enjoy the scans! #2679 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 20:56:53 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Raiders for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 5 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 5 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, December 3, 2017 at 10pm MST. Four people played Space Raiders in this round. Space Raiders, which I expected to be like a Defender/Scramble game plays much more like a single-screen shooter rather than a horizontal scrolling game. The screen can "scroll" left or right, but the game seems to play best when you use the scrolling to minimum effect. My friend played with me last week, but we forgot to record his score. Oh, and where were the Canon family this round? Were you all too afraid to face this round's challenge?!? Space Raiders Scores 10 pts - James Jacobs - 4,160 9 pts - Tempest - 2,885 8 pts - Ballyalley - 2,195 7 pts - Darrin9999 - 1,615 Several people earned bonus points. Here are this round's final standing: Space Raiders Scores (Final Table) 1st - James Jacobs 10 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 11 Points -@- 2nd - Tempest 9 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 10 Points -@- 3rd - Ballyalley 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 9 Points -@- 4th - Darrin9999 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 Points --- ! - Space Raiders - Video Review - (1 Point) [No points awarded] @ - Space Raiders - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) # - Space Raiders - Backstory - (1 Point) [No points awarded] This round's overall winner is James. Please check your final score. ;-) I wanted to do a video review of Space Raiders, but I couldn't get my camera to focus properly on the screen because of the black background. Eventually my friend helped me out by showing me how to lock the camera's focus. By that time, it was toward the end of the week and I didn't have the time to make the video review. I enjoyed this game enough that I plan to revisit it and make a video review in the near-future. Final Thoughts on Space Raiders Although Space Raiders has a generic title and also has semi-generic gameplay, the game itself is fun. I'd suggest that if you have an Arcadia system that you pick this game up if you have the chance. It's certainly not perfect… but I've yet to come across any perfect Arcadia games. Heck, I'm not sure we've come across any bug-free Arcadia games yet. Next Round's Game: Brain Quiz The main game for Round 6 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club is Brain Quiz. This 4KB cartridge released in 1982 contains three educational/math-type games: Mindbreaker (Mastermind), Maxit (oddly compelling!), and Hangman. This game was released in the U.S., so you'll be able to play it without a multicart. In some countries this game was called by such alternate names as Intelligenz-Ubung, Math/Logic, and Mathematiques Logiques. Come and join us in round 6 where you'll be able to exercise your brain. No, really. Come on and give, at least, the game Maxit a try; I quite enjoyed it. It's probably based on some 1970s-era game. If you know what that game is called, then let me know. You can post your scores here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/272810-brain-quiz-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-1-round-6 Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 - Classic Gaming General atariage.com Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 - posted in Classic Gaming General: Season 1, Round 6 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Brain Quiz, a game released in 1982 for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. Brain Quiz contains three educational/math-type games: Mindbreaker (Mastermind), Maxit (pretty fun!),... Since Brain Quiz, for the most part, doesn't have scores that seem to work in this high score club, round six is mostly a participation round. Thanks for playing in round 5, everyone! I really feel like Space Raiders is one of the better games for the Arcadia family of systems. It would have been cool if UA Ltd. had ported this game to the Atari 2600 so that more people could give it a whirl. #2680 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 21:05:49 +0000 Subject: Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 6 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Brain Quiz, a game released in 1982 for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. Brain Quiz contains three educational/math-type games: Mindbreaker (Mastermind), Maxit (pretty fun!), and Hangman. The artwork for Brain Quiz is bizarre. Can anyone explain to me why there is a skeleton in the artwork for this game? With all their oddities, sometimes I feel like Arcadia games were created in another universe! Here are screenshots of the three Brain Quiz games being played on an NTSC Emerson Arcadia console: Mindbreaker: Maxit: Hangman: There are no videos of Brain Quiz that give example game play of all three of the games. If you're curious, you can see a couple of videos on YouTube, but they're very short, and the games aren't being played properly (so I'm not going to provide links to the videos). Here is the box for Brain Quiz: Here is the cartridge for Brain Quiz: Here are the three overlays for Brain Quiz: Brain Quiz - Quick-Play Rules Play Brain Quiz on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. Brain Quiz has no gameplay options. This round is unusual in that we're not playing for high scores. If you play the two one-player games then you'll earn six points. To earn additional points, see the scoring section below for details. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("BrainQuiz.bin" is the filename for Brain Quiz): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Post pictures of your high scores here. Brain Quiz - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. Outside of America, Brain Quiz is also known as Intelligenz-Ubung, Math/Logic, and Mathematiques Logiques. Here is information about the Emerson release of this game: Brain Quiz Emerson 4k cart. 1982. #1012 (6). One or two players. Short case. Three games in one; some of them may be ports of games from the Interton VC-4000 console (the Arcadia's "prequel"). Games include: Mindbreaker, Maxit and Hangman. High quality scans of Brain Quiz box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/details/BrainQuizEmersonArcadia2001ScansandManual Here is the manual's cover: For complete information about this game, visit the above link. I've included the important points from the manual here: Brain Quiz Video Game Instructions for Emerson Arcadia 2001 Cartridge No. 6, Part No. 1012 General There are three games: Mindbreaker, Maxit, and Hangman. Object of the Games 1. Mindbreaker (Master Mind) - One player (against computer), to guess 5 numbers inserted by computer. Two players, to guess 5 numbers which were inserted by opponent player 2. Maxit - One player (against computer) to get higher numbers and final score than the computer. Two players to get higher numbers and final score than the opponent player. 3. Hangman - Two player game only. To guess the letters entered by opponent player. To Begin Play Press "SELECT" Switch until desired game display appears: A = MINDBREAKER B = MAXIT C = HANGMAN How To Play Mindbreaker (No Overlay Required) A. To Play Against Computer (1 Player) Use the Left Hand Controller with 'Disc' towards yourself. Press "START" to begin the game. Select 5 digit number by depressing the numbers on the keyboard. The number of digits you guessed in right position will be displayed under "+". The number of right digits will be displayed under "S". Follow these hints and you can have maximum 19 chances to guess. After 19 tries computer will display the right number. B. 2 Player Version Depress "OPTION" Switch for "2 player" Press "START" to begin the game Always use Right Hand Controller to insert number and use Left Hand Controller to guess the number Player 1 enters five desired digit numbers and then press "ENTER" key. Player 2 follows Instruction A3-6 to play Press "CLEAR" key to correct wrong digit inserted if necessary Maxit Press "SELECT" button for "MAXIT" game. Press "OPTION" button to select level of difficulty and/or number of players. No. 1 - Junior, No. 2 - Intermediate, No. 3 - Advance, No. 4 - 2 Player Insert the MAXIT overlay(s) provided with this cartridge (see fig. 1) into the respective left and/or right Hand Controller. For one player version, use the left Hand Controller only. The number selector can be moved horizontally only. For two players version, the right-player can move the number selector vertically, the left-player horizontally. Pick up the highest number alternatively. The numbers you picked up will be accumulated and will be your score. Red numbers are negative, decrease the score. Black number are positive, increase the score. To move the Number Selector, press the respective Vertical or Horizontal arrows until the desired number is selected. Press "ENTER" on the overlay. The number will disappear and enter to your score. Game will end when all numbers have been picked up. The highest score wins. Hangman (2 Player Game) Press "SELECT" button for Hangman game. Press "START" to begin the game. Insert "HANGMAN" overlays (provided with the cartridge) to cover the original overlays. One of the players uses the Right Hand Controller to insert the word (maximum up to 14 letters) by pressing the vertical or horizontal arrows on the overlay. Enter each letter by pressing the "ENTER" button. Press "RUBOUT" Key to correct wrong letters if necessary. Enter the whole word by pressing the "ENTER WORD" button. The opposing player uses the Left Hand Controller to guess the word. To start, press any button on the key board. Procedure same as step (3) above. Each game allows 10 guesses only. After 10 wrong guesses a man will be hung. Players take turns. The first player who gets 99 points wins. Brain Quiz Gameplay Options Brain Quiz has a few gameplay options, but we're just playing the game on default settings. If you're playing for bonus points, then you will need to change some default settings. Brain Quiz (Scoring) Normally we play for highest score, but that won't work for this game. Therefore, this is a participation round. Three points each are scored for playing Mindbreaker and Maxit (six points total for both games). Hangman is a two-player only game. Four points will awarded to anyone who plays Hangman against another player. "Playing" Hangman alone is worth only two points. I'm not sure that this is a perfect way to award points for this round, but it seems fair. Brain Quiz (Bonus Points): There are quite a few ways to earn bonus points this round: Brain Quiz - Video Play - (1 Point) - I didn't find any proper reviews of this game. I'd really like to see some quality video of all three games being played on actual hardware. Anyone who makes a video of all three games being played (on real hardware or under emulation) will earn one point. Brain Quiz - Video Review - (2 Points) - I didn't find any reviews of this game. I'd really like to see some quality video of all three games being played on actual hardware. Anyone who reviews Brain Quiz and its included three games will earn two points. Note that a video review has the extra point built-in that would otherwise be awarded for a gameplay video. Brain Quiz - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - As we've been discovering for ourselves, Arcadia games can be flaky. If anyone finds any problems, and documents them, then they will earn one bonus point. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Brain Quiz - Backstory - (1 Point) - Brain Quiz doesn't provide a backstory. I guess one isn't needed for this game, but it might be fun to write one anyway. Write a background that may have been included with the game in 1982 and you'll get a bonus point. Brain Quiz - Mindbreaker - (1 Point) - The player who wins a one-player game with the least amount of moves gets a bonus point. Brain Quiz - Maxit - (1 Point) - The player who earns the highest score on a one-player game set to difficulty 3 (advanced) gets a bonus point. Summary I had never played any of these games before, but I tried each of them out before this round began so that I could figure-out a scoring system. None of these games requires the joystick; they all are controlled via the keypad. That might make playing these games under emulation awkward. I played Mindbreaker and beat it in 17 moves. The game told me "You're too slow," meaning "Hey, man, you're a terrible player!" I appreciate comments like this. I had no idea what to expect from Maxit. It turns out that it's a rather fun game; I would really like to try this with another player. I could see this one being competitive. Finally, I tried Hangman and entered the word "ARCADIA" and then deliberately lost. I was quite amused by the final drawing of the little hanged man. As always, as you play Brain Quiz only games played during this round count. Please post pictures of your games and scores as the round progresses. Not only does this help you not forget to play the game, but it gives other player's a challenge to try to beat your score. If you've not played in a round before now, then now's the time to join in! Have a fun sixth round, everyone! #2681 Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 23:13:25 +0000 Subject: Re: Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 From: Adam Trionfo I've been playing Mindbreaker for a few games. I've managed to beat the game in 8 moves, which seems pretty good-- maybe I can get a bonus point. Can anyone beat me? I'm having an unexpected good time playing this Brain Quiz cartridge. #2682 Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 00:21:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 From: Adam Trionfo I hope that you all find this round even half as interesting as I've found it so far. I just played several rounds of Maxit against the computer on the hardest level (advanced). I'm hoping to earn a bonus point doing this, but it's not nearly as easy going as I expected it to be. There is a cool wrinkle to Maxit that I wasn't aware of when I first started playing this game earlier today. I thought that Maxit was played until all of the numbers were gone, but a game can also end if you have no moves left. The computer seems to try to get the higher score and then force you into moves that will end your game. Stupid, evil computer! My highest score so far is 51 points, but I still lost the game: BallyAlley 51 points / Computer 69 points Here is the only advanced game where I'm managed to clear the board (and, yes, I still lost-- but at least the game ended with close scores): BallyAlley 43 points / Computer 47 points I haven't beat the computer yet: it plays very good. I'd say that it's rather clever (or, more likely, I'm not clever!). Give this game a try, everybody. It might take a little while to get used to how the game is played, but once you do, I'm sure you'll like it. I'm going to have to find a Windows version of this Maxit game, as it's simply addictive. #2683 Date: Thu, 7 Dec 2017 17:25:30 +0000 Subject: Size of Arcadia Overlays From: Adam Trionfo I printed myself some Brain Quiz keypad overlays for my Emerson Arcadia 2001 console. In case anyone else wants to print them out the size of them is: Width - 2.25 Height - 2.90625 I printed the overlays, cut them to size and then placed them on the keypad of the controller. This works great. #2684 Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2017 20:18:10 +0000 Subject: Printable Brain Quiz Overlays for Arcadia From: Adam Trionfo I have attached a pdf file with all four of the Brain Quiz overlays on one page. When you print the overlays, make sure to turn "page scaling off" in Acrobat (else the overlays will be too small). You'll have a much better time playing the games in Brain Quiz with these overlays. Just cut them out to fit on your Emerson Arcadia 2001 console's keypad. The final size of the overlays are: Width - 2.25 Height - 2.90625 These overlays work great for me. The games are playable without the overlays, but using them makes the game much easier. #2685 Date: Sat, 9 Dec 2017 18:01:48 +0000 Subject: Re: Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 From: Adam Trionfo I played Brain Quiz last night with my friend Chris. We played a two player game of Maxit. Man, that game is fun. We managed to clear the board, which I didn't expect to happen. His score was far behind mine (my score was in the 70s, his score was in the 30s), but as the game progressed I had to keep picking up negative numbers. By the last tile left on the screen, we were tied 47-47. With the one tile left, Chris picked up a -4 and I won the game 47-43. That's about as close as a game can get. I really am shocked at how fun Maxit is to play. We also played a couple of two-player games of Hangman. I picked the word Astrocade. Chris managed to guess it without much trouble. He choose the word VideoBrain. I managed to get that one too. I didn't take any pictures, as the end of Hangman is only on the screen for a few seconds. #2686 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 01:34:26 +0000 Subject: Please Help Identify Source of "Maxit" on Arcadia 2001 "Brain Quiz" Cartridge From: Adam Trionfo I'm looking for the original source or name of the game "Maxit" on the Emerson Arcadia 2001 "Brain Quiz" cartridge. My guess is that this game was a common game on 1970s computer platforms. Can you help me to identify where this 1982 game may have originally appeared? I couldn't find any videos of anyone playing this "Maxit," so I made a video showing how the game is played and posted it to YouTube. The video was made off-the-cuff, but I think I explain the game's rules okay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypaI0V_WI2k&feature=youtu.be Help identify source of "Maxit" on Arcadia 2001 "Brain Quiz" cartridge www.youtube.com I'm looking for the original source or name of the game "Maxit" on the "Brain Quiz" Emerson Arcadia 2001 cartridge. My guess is that this game was a common g... The Emerson Arcadia 2001 has a cartridge called "Brain Quiz." It contains three games: "Mindbreaker," "Maxit" and "Hangman." "Maxit" is a fun one or two player game that is played for high score. Each player picks a number from a grid of 10x10 numbers. One player can move only horizontally and the other player can only move vertically. The black numbers are positive and the red numbers are negative. The game appears easy, but two players find that they must plan moves several moves ahead so that the other player doesn't get to pick the high numbers. If anyone has any ideas of the origin of "Maxit," then please let me know. #2687 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:27:40 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Please Help Identify Source of "Maxit" on Arcadia 2001 "Brain Quiz" Cartridge From: James Jacobs >I'm going to have to find a Windows version of this Maxit game, as it's simply addictive. >None of these games requires the joystick; they all are controlled via the keypad. That might make playing these games under emulation awkward. It doesn't, in fact it is even easier as Ami/WinArcadia has special logic to allow use of the cursor keys on this game, or of course you can use the keypad controls. No need for a Windows port, that is the point of an emulator ;-) >If anyone has any ideas of the origin of "Maxit," then please let me know. The page at http://www.old-games.com/download/5398/maxit implies it was already in existence as a traditional board game and was subsequently computerized. #2688 Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 18:15:06 +0000 Subject: Re: Please Help Identify Source of "Maxit" on Arcadia 2001 "Brain Quiz" Cartridge From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >The page at [old-games.com ...] implies [Maxit] was already in existence as a traditional board game and was subsequently computerized. Thanks for finding that page, James. Once I started looking for the game with the words "board game" game in my search, I found many interesting games. The 1982 Maxit game for DOS, which seems to have created and released by IBM (can that be right?), can be found here: http://www.old-games.com/download/5398/maxit MaxIt Download (1982 Strategy Game) - Old Games www.old-games.com Maxit is a strategy game for two players or one player against the computer. In the game, there is an 8x8 board; Each space in the board contains a point value. The above download page has some interesting information. For instance, the DOS version of Maxit uses an 8x8 board (not a 10x10 board, as on the Arcadia). It also says that "MaxIt is a nicely coded DOS version of a fun two-player board game of the same name." I looked up Maxit as a board game and found a few non-board game versions of the game: Maxit by Moose Software for Windows CE: http://www.craigcolvin.com/Moosesoftware/maxit.html I found a version from September 2017 called Maxit-- but I'm not even sure which platform it's for: https://maxit.sourceforge.io/ maxit.sourceforge.io - Maxit Web Site maxit.sourceforge.io Home. Download . Maxit is a single-player strategy game. It features animated OpenGL pieces, background themes, several difficulty levels, and a clever artificially ... Here is a windows 3.1 version released by Eastern Software Solutions (Eugene S. Schulze) in 1995: https://archive.org/details/Maxit11_1020 Eugene S. Schulze - Internet Archive archive.org Dear Internet Archive Supporter, I ask only once a year: please help the Internet Archive today. We’re an independent, non-profit website that the entire world ... Here is a Commodore PET/64 version of Maxit: http://www.mobygames.com/game/maxit Here is an Atari 8-bit computer version of Maxit from the Portland Atari Club released in 1982. This says it's a port of the Commodore PET version of the game: http://www.atarimania.com/game-atari-400-800-xl-xe-maxit_28681.html Here is an actual board game (non-computerized) version of Maxit, called Max-it, released in 1991 by Numero Games Company: https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/68786/max-it Max-It boardgamegeek.com From rules page: Max-It is a unique dice game played with a special set of five dice. Three regular d6s and two "function" dice, each of which has two Plus (positive) signs, two Minus (negative) signs and two Times (multiplication) signs. Game play involves rolling and re-rolling the dice, and grouping them in various combinations to produce the most desired results. The game is divided into three rounds, each with a different objective. A round consists of three turns and a Max-It roll for each player. A Max-It roll uses only two dice, one regular and one function, and may cause a scoring upset. After three rounds, each player takes a final Max-It roll. The player with the highest total score wins. Round 1 - Players try for high positive scores. Round 2 - Players try for high negative scores. Round 3 - Players try for the greatest difference between two dice rolls. Components include 5 dice (3 regular and 2 function), dice cup, instructions and players' score pad. There must a boardgame version of this game that pre-dates 1991, but I can't find it. #2689 Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 01:20:26 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 From: James Jacobs I used the emulator this time. I made gameplay recordings of my high score attempts; they are at http://amigan.yatho.com/BrainQuizHighScores.rar and can be played back in any recent version of Ami/WinArcadia. Completed Mastermind in 8 moves. Final score in Maxit was 65 (vs. the computer's 25), despite trailing for most of the game. I played all three games, just in one player mode though. Game has the obvious cosmetic bug that the cursor isn't centred properly over the numbers/letters in Maxit and Hangman. I did not find any other bugs. #2690 Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2017 20:02:28 +0000 Subject: Brain Quiz Background Story; was: Re: Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 From: Adam Trionfo I wrote a backstory for Brain Quiz. It's probably far more than I needed to write, but it's always fun to noodle around creating something new. Brain Quiz For Emerson Arcadia 2001 - Background Story By Adam Trionfo December 17, 2017 Everything changed when the artificial intelligent "players" were allowed to participate in the Brain Quiz Games, the worldwide competition that draws some of the smartest people together to compete in three simple, yet elegant, games: Mindbreaker, Maxit and Hangman. Of course, there were millions of players around the world who still played Chess and Go. Those two games would always have their devotees whose players didn't participate in the Brain Games. It was no surprise that they actively looked down upon the "easy" games that were played by "simpletons." Where was the challenge in these three games, they wondered. The truth of the matter is that it isn't the three games that are played by the players, but the opponents who play them. No longer are the games only human versus human. Now it is human versus... machine. First the computers had come, then the robots and now the Intelligent Mobiles compete in the Brain Games. At first, they did not so much compete, but dominate the Games. When they played, there were no mistakes, no misjudgments, no problems: they played perfectly. Human players began to fall away from the Games when the competition was gone. It wasn't just that there was no point of playing when there was no chance to win. How can one play a game against an unthinking automation made up of circuits, be they man-made materials or based upon nature's own biology (but changed and mutated to follow Man's design)? It was when these "Engines of the Brain Games" (as they came to be called) pulled down ratings, viewers and then money had began to be lost, that the Brain Games rules of competition had to be changed. The Intelligent Mobiles, which competed for the first time last year, could lose. It wasn't that these machines were less "intelligent" (a word choice always misapplied to the Engines), but rather that they played like a human player. They no longer played perfect games by looking ahead and playing-out every possible move and choice of a game's selections. No, they played like a person played: imperfectly and with emotion. The simulation of the Mobiles was so convincing that they could be riled-up to make a bad move or even a set of poor choices based on "anger." Now that the playing field seemed more evenly matched, you decided that this would be your first year to play in the Brain Quiz games. As all children do, you grew up playing these three games, first with your parents and Robo-Nursemaids. You moved on to the street and eventually found yourself participating in not-quite-illegal back alley competitions. As you worked your way up, you found that your fame spread and shady backers moved in, fronting money and rewards for players who jockeyed to win in local area competitions. Now you're here. Today is the second day of the Games. Yesterday you played against human players and you bested them all. Your games were quick; you easily moved in for the victories: there were no close games. You looked into the eyes of every opponent and sized them up to easily base a strategy on how to best beat them. Today your first opponent is an Intelligent Mobile. This is a biological model. It was built to look and act human. Before today, you only ever played against "borrowed" tin-can Mobiles, whose "eyes" were steely and frosty; there was nothing readable in them. The bio Mobile across from you is different. Its eyes seem to show emotion and when you shift in your seat, you give something away, some small detail that the Mobile detects. This, you now know, is the weakness you were looking for: these bio units are readable. You look down at the Maxit board covered with its 100 positive and negative numbers and make your first move. The Mobile follows, seeming to take its time. A few plays pass between you both. You look into the Mobile's eyes and recognize... thinking. You take a positive number from the board. The game continues while the audience cheers, boos and shrieks. The eyes of the world are on you. This year, you're certain that you'll beat the Machines. You're going to come away from the competition the winner. But in the end, that clear, thinking-look of the Intelligent Mobile across from you makes you understand that humanity has placed itself in mortal danger. One day, the Mobiles are going to look beyond the Games toward... something worth much more to everyone. But, for now, there is nothing to do but play the three master-level Brain Quiz games: Mindbreaker, Maxit and Hangman. It's your move, Player. (Anyone else up for making a background story? I'd love to read someone else's cool ideas.) #2691 Date: Tue, 19 Dec 2017 03:02:19 +0000 Subject: Arcadia HSC: Round 7 - Catch-up Round From: Adam Trionfo I'll provide more details about round 7 around the middle of the week. The next game was going to be Space Vultures, but then I remembered that we still have not had a catch-up round. The current round of the Arcadia HSC will last about two weeks. It will end on Sunday, December 31st at 10pm. Play any game that was played during rounds 1-6 and post your scores here. There are no chances to score bonus points; simply play for high scores. I'll try to provide details and links to the previous rounds around the middle of the week. #2692 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 19:56:31 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia HSC: Round 7 - Catch-up Round From: Adam Trionfo Here are the full details for this catch-up round, the last round of Season 1. Season 1, Round 7 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, December 31, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The next game was going to be Space Vultures, but then I remembered that we still have not had a catch-up round. In this catch-up round, you can play any game that was played during rounds 1-6 and post your scores in this thread. Even if you've already posted a score in a previous round, you can play again and try to best your own scores (and anybody else's score too). Note, although rounds one and two of this HSC were only posted about on the Arcadia Yahoo group, those two games are fair to play here in the AtariAge foums. Some people have already been posting scores for this catch-up round in the AtariAge forums, here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/273285-catch-up-round-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-1-round-7/ There are no chances to score bonus points in this round; simply play for high scores. Here are the games we've played so far: S1, R1: Cat Trax - Cat Trax, a maze game similar to Pac-Man. Read more about this Cat Trax on the Arcadia group here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/273403-cat-trax-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-1-round-1/ S1, R2: Space Attack - Space Attack, a "slide and shoot" game, similar to Galaxian. Read more about this Space Attack on the Arcadia group: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/273405-space-attack-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-1-round-2/ S1, R3: Escape - You have to play this game a few times in order to "get" its design, which is similar looking to Berzerk, but rather different once you get into the nitty-gritty of the game. Read more about this Escape here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/271509-arcadia-2001mpt-03-high-score-club-round-3-escape/ S1, R4: Funky Fish - Funky Fish is an unreleased game (in the United States) for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. It is a home port of a hard-to-find arcade game released in 1981 by Sun Electronics. Read more about this Funky Fish here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/271841-arcadia-2001mpt-03-high-score-club-round-4-funky-fish/ S1, R5: Space Raiders - Space Raiders is a side-scrolling game, a bit like Defender… except there is no one to defend except yourself. Although Space Raiders has a generic title and also has semi-generic gameplay, the game itself is fun. Read more about this Space Raiders here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/272260-space-raiders-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-1-round-5/ S1, R6: Brain Quiz - Brain Quiz contains three educational/math-type games: Mindbreaker (Mastermind), Maxit (pretty fun!), and Hangman. Read more about this Brain Quiz here: http://www.atariage.com/forums/topic/272810-brain-quiz-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-1-round-6 If you haven't played in the Arcadia High Score club, then now is the perfect chance to jump in and have fun! #2693 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 16:45:54 -0500 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Arcadia HSC: Round 7 - Catch-up Round From: markwcanon@... Hey Adam, Would you mind posting the highest scores as of now for all games included in this summarization? Thanks! #2694 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 22:43:56 +0000 Subject: Re: Brain Quiz for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 1, Round 6 From: Adam Trionfo Season 1, Round 6 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, December 17, 2017 at 10pm MST. Three people played Brain Quiz in this round. I expected this game to be boring; instead I was very pleased to discover that Brain Quiz is a hidden gem in the Arcadia's small game library. Brain Quiz Scores (Final Table) This was a participation round because these games don't use scoring systems that we could use to compete against one another. James pointed out a cosmetic bug (the cursor isn't centered properly over the numbers/letters in Maxit and Hangman). I don't consider this a bug because it seems intentional to me... but given the nature of the round, I still awarded James a point for being the only person to point it out. Ballyalley 3 + 3 + 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 12 Points !@-$---*(- James Jacobs 3 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 1 = 12 Points !@#-%-&-() Tempest 3 + 3 + 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 Points !@-$------ Main Points for playing the games: ! - Mindbreaker - 3 Points @ - Maxit - 3 Points # - Hangman - 2 Points (One-player game) $ - Hangman - 4 Points (Two-player game) Bonus Points % - Brain Quiz - Video Play - (1 Point) ^ - Brain Quiz - Video Review - (2 Points) - No points awarded & - Brain Quiz - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) * - Brain Quiz - Backstory - (1 Point) ( - Brain Quiz - Mindbreaker - (1 Point) - Tie (8 Moves) ) - Brain Quiz - Maxit - (1 Point) - Highest winning score This round's overall winners are Ballyalley and James. Please check your final score. ;-) Just like with Space Raiders, I wanted to do a video review of Brain Quiz, but I couldn't get my camera to focus properly on the screen because of the black background. Final Thoughts on Brain Quiz I had no idea that any part of Brain Quiz would be fun. Despite going into this round with a preconceived notion that I wouldn't find any enjoyment in this game, I found Maxit fun. In the last few weeks, I even explored Maxit on a couple of other platforms (Commodore 64 and Windows 3.1). It's rare that I play a video game that I have no previous experience with at all, but somehow Maxit has slipped under my radar since I began playing video games in the early 1980s. Next Round's Game: Catch-Up Round There is no game for Round 7 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club. This is a catch-up round for the six games we've played earlier in this season: S1, R1: Cat Trax S1, R2: Space Attack S1, R3: Escape S1, R4: Funky Fish S1, R5: Space Raiders S1, R6: Brain Quiz You can join the catch-up round here: http://atariage.com/...ason-1-round-7/ Thanks to the couple of other people who played in round 6! Brain Quiz isn't a game for everyone, but it's worth a try if you like puzzle games. #2695 Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 23:44:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia HSC: Round 7 - Catch-up Round From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon asked: >would you mind posting the current high score for each game here? This took me a while to do, but Mark's request makes plenty of sense. Here is where we all stand for total points (including bonus points) for Rounds 1-6: James Jacobs 60 BallyAlley 56 Mark Canon 37 Tempest 33 Skylar Canon 22 Christopher Tompkins 12 Chris++ 10 Darrin9999 14 Milo Canon 14 It's possible that I'm confused with some people's AtariAge handles and their names. If I've got you on the above list more than one (under a different names, handle or alias) than let me know. I'm doing all of this adding by hand. For season 2, I need to work out a system to use a spreadsheet to do these totals semi-automatically. Here are how rounds 1-6 break down with high scores and bonus points. If you want to catch-up or beat anyone on the above list then it's the lists below that will help you most. Here are the highest scores for round 1-6. You don't have to beat these scores to earn bonus points, but if you do, then you'll be in first place (10 points) for that round. Round 1: Cat Trax - Mark Canon - 60,000 Round 2: Space Attack - James Jacobs - 12,460 Round 3: Escape - Chris++ - 12,170 Round 4: Funky Fish - Tempest - 112,275 Round 5: Space Raiders - James Jacobs - 4,160 Round 6: Brain Quiz - Ballyalley and Tempest - 10 Note: Round 6 was a participation-only round. Maximum points were earned for playing all three games (and Hangman with two players). Top Scores for Rounds 1-6 Here are the final high scores for each of the six rounds. This doesn't include bonus points, which are included in the final tables. Note that I won't keep these scores and/or tables current as the catch-up round progress, but (of course) I'll figure-out the final scores after this season ends. Round 1: Cat Trax Scores Mark Canon 60,000 (NTSC) James Jacobs 37,960 (PAL) Milo Canon 27,940 (NTSC) Adam Trionfo 22,400 (NTSC) Christopher Tompkins 21,400 (NTSC) Skylar Canon 17,700 (NTSC) Round 2: Space Attack Scores James Jacobs 12,460 (PAL) Adam Trionfo 9,120 (NTSC) Mark Canon 8,960 (NTSC) Skylar Canon 8,560 (NTSC) Milo Canon 4,800 (NTSC) Round 3: Escape Scores Chris++ 12,170 Mark Canon 10,640 James Jacobs 9,750 BallyAlley 7,110 Christopher 3,870 Round 4: Funky Fish Scores Tempest 112,275 Skylar 91,225 James Jacobs 90,125 Darrin9999 61,800 Mark Cannon 64,825 BallyAlley 44,925 Round 5: Space Raiders Scores James Jacobs 4,160 Tempest 2,885 Ballyalley 2,195 Darrin9999 1,615 Round 6: Brain Quiz Scores This was a participation round; there were no "proper" scores. Playing the three games earned points like this: Mindbreaker = 3 Points, Maxit = 3 Points, Hangman ("One-player") = 2 Points and Hangman (Two-player) = 4 Points Ballyalley 3 + 3 + 4 = 10 Tempest 3 + 3 + 4 = 10 James Jacobs 3 + 3 + 2 = 8 Final Rounds (Including bonus points) Round 1: Cat Trax (Final Table) 1st Mark Canon 60,000 (NTSC) 10 points 2nd James Jacobs 37,960 (PAL) 9 points 3rd Milo Canon 27,940 (NTSC) 8 points 4th Adam Trionfo 22,400 (NTSC) 7 points 5th Christopher Tompkins 21,400 (NTSC) 6 points 6th Skylar Canon 17,700 (NTSC) 5 points Round 2: Space Attack (Final Table) 1st Adam Trionfo 9 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 12 points !@# 2nd James Jacobs 10 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 11 points @ 3rd Mark Canon 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 9 points @ 4th Skylar Canon 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points 5th Milo Canon 6 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 6 points Round 3: Escape (Final Table) 1st Mark Canon 9 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 1 = 11 points !$ 2nd Chris++ 10 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 points 2nd BallyAlley 7 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 8 points # 3rd James Jacobs 8 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 8 points 4th Christopher 6 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 6 points Round 4: Funky Fish (Final Table) 1st - Tempest 10 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 13 points -@$%- 2nd - Skylar 9 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 points -@--- 3rd - James Jacobs 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 9 points -@--- 4th - BallyAlley 5 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 1 = 8 points -@-$% 5th - Darrin9999 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points ----- 5th - Mark Cannon 6 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points -@--- Round 5: Space Raiders (Final Table) 1st - James Jacobs 10 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 11 Points -@- 2nd - Tempest 9 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 10 Points -@- 3rd - Ballyalley 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 9 Points -@- 4th - Darrin9999 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 Points --- Round 6: Brain Quiz (Final Table) Ballyalley 3 + 3 + 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 12 Points !@-$---*(- James Jacobs 3 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 1 = 12 Points !@#-%-&-() Tempest 3 + 3 + 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 Points !@-$------ Based on this information, you may be able to decide which games would benefit you the most to play in order to move up in the ranking. Good luck, everyone! #2696 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2017 21:02:55 +0000 Subject: Examples of Small and Large Arcadia Carts? From: Adam Trionfo "stupus" on an AtariAge Arcadia thread said: "I just can't recall seeing the same exact titles in both [large and small] sizes. If someone can confirm they did I would love to see that." He says that here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/189779-arcadia-2001-multicart-2011-version-any-interest/page-12#entry3921756 He would like to see pictures of the same Emerson Arcadia title in both small cart size and large cart size. I know that such pictures must exist, but after looking around for a little while, I couldn't find any. Can someone show me some examples of both cartridges so that I can share the pictures on AtariAge? #2697 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 20:41:05 +0000 Subject: Help with Arcadia Flatbed Scanning Weird "Lines" From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon has been making 300dpi high quality scans of Arcadia boxes, manuals and cartridges using his flatbed scanner. When he sends me the PNG or BMP files, they have weird lines in the background and near the edges of anything he scans. The lines actually "bleed" (and sometimes go across) the items he is scanning. I've also noticed that even though he is saving the images in lossless BMP or PNG format, the images seem to have lossy compression. Can anyone help explain this? I've attached a few examples, in jpg format (since the original scans are quite large), of what I'm talking about. In the attaches three examples, notice: 1) The upper-right corner of the Space Vultures box has lines that "bleed" into the box. 2) The close-up of the text on the back of the Space Vultures box has lines across it. 3) The original image of the back of the Space Vultures box and cartridge gives a pretty good idea of the overall scans when I get them. Notice the lines behind the images that bleed into the box and cartridge. Mark has noticed that placing a solid object (paper or cardboard) behind the item(s) he is scanning helps to reduce the lines (it doesn't seem to totally eliminate them). What is causing these lines to appear in the scans? #2698 Date: Sat, 6 Jan 2018 22:47:10 +0000 Subject: Help: Scan of Prestige MPT-03 Catalog From: Adam Trionfo The Prestige Video Computer Game MPT-03 console, released in France, had a release of Space Vultures called Vautour de l'espace. Prestige published a game catalog that has a picture of the missing mothership level from that game. I used this tiny picture as a basis for my mothership "level" (a still image, really) that I wrote in 2002 for the Arcadia (this "stage" in on most Arcadia multicarts). In 2002, I think Olivier, added a Prestige catalog to his old-computers website. Back then, scans were VERY low resolution. Does anyone have this catalog that they could scan at a higher resolution (say 300dpi)? In particular I want a scan of the mothership level. I'm referring to this catalog: (Front:) (Back:) Does anyone have this catalog that they could scan for me? (I'm constantly amazed that that there are so few high-res scans/photos of Arcadia and MPT-03 software and hardware!) #2699 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 15:42:27 +0100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Help with Arcadia Flatbed Scanning Weird "Lines" From: Dennis Spreen the bleeding lines looks like bad ccd pixels, which aren't visible in the (non-plain) areas where the oversampling of the ccd chip / software compensates the pixel failure. it may be just dirt though - e.g. see "Fixing Vertical Lines on a Scanner" https://www.martyndavis.com/?p=78 here is my partial 1200dpi scan of the vultures box back (hmg2650 labled box, my arcadia 2001 box isn't that good, but is identical apart from the "for use with" label) #2700 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 15:52:15 +0100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Help with Arcadia Flatbed Scanning Weird "Lines" From: Dennis Spreen P.S: if you're using a higher dpi, you may notice that e.g. the green of SPACE VULTURES logo isn't a pure green, it's green with yellow dots, see attachment. #2701 Date: Sun, 7 Jan 2018 22:47:02 +0000 Subject: Arcadia HSC Season 1: Final Standings From: Adam Trionfo Season 1 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on December 21, 2017. Here are the final total points (including bonus points) for the Rounds 1-6 and the additional round 7 catch-up points: 1st James Jacobs 60 2nd Tempest 33 + 24 = 57 3rd BallyAlley 56 4th Darrin9999 14 + 23 = 37 4th Mark Canon 37 5th Skylar Canon 22 6th Christopher Tompkins 12 7th Milo Canon 14 8th Chris++ 10 Congratulations to James for winning the first season of the Arcadia High Score Club. Special notice to Tempest who worked his way up from fourth place to second place from points awarded in the catch-up round. He pushed me from second place down to third place. That's cool; it's all about the fun of playing the game! This post can also be read in the AtariAge forums, here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/274025-arcadia-hsc-season-1-final-standings/ Catch-up round points were awards in a way that did not disrupt the other player's previous scores. This was done to make it easier on me, so that I would not have to recalculate all people's scores. Darrin9999 got an additional 23 points in the catch-up round. Tempest got an additional 24 points in the catch-up round. It's possible that I'm confused with some people's AtariAge handles and their names. If I've got you on the above list more than once (under a different names, handle or alias), then let me know. I'm doing all of this adding by hand. For season 2, I need to work out a system to use a spreadsheet to do these totals semi-automatically. Here are the highest scores for round 1-6: Round 1: Cat Trax - Mark Canon - 60,000 Round 2: Space Attack - James Jacobs - 12,460 Round 3: Escape - Darrin9999 - 17,440 Round 4: Funky Fish - Tempest - 112,275 Round 5: Space Raiders - James Jacobs - 4,160 Round 6: Brain Quiz - Ballyalley and Tempest - 10 Note: Round 6 was a participation-only round. Maximum points were earned for playing all three games (and Hangman with two players). Top Scores for Rounds 1-6 Here are the final high scores for each of the six rounds. This doesn't include bonus points, which are included in the final tables. Round 1: Cat Trax Scores Mark Canon 60,000 (NTSC) James Jacobs 37,960 (PAL) Milo Canon 27,940 (NTSC) Darrin9999 25,580 -- Catch-Up Round Adam Trionfo 22,400 (NTSC) Christopher Tompkins 21,400 (NTSC) Tempest 19,060 -- Catch-Up Round Skylar Canon 17,700 (NTSC) Round 2: Space Attack Scores James Jacobs 12,460 (PAL) Tempest 12,010 * Catch-Up Round Adam Trionfo 9,120 (NTSC) Mark Canon 8,960 (NTSC) Skylar Canon 8,560 (NTSC) Darrin9999 6,110 * Catch-Up Round Milo Canon 4,800 (NTSC) Round 3: Escape Scores Darrin9999 17,440 * Catch-Up Round Tempest 15,140 * Catch-Up Round Chris++ 12,170 Mark Canon 10,640 James Jacobs 9,750 BallyAlley 7,110 Christopher 3,870 Round 4: Funky Fish Scores Tempest 112,275 Skylar 91,225 James Jacobs 90,125 Darrin9999 61,800 Mark Cannon 64,825 BallyAlley 44,925 Round 5: Space Raiders Scores James Jacobs 4,160 Tempest 2,885 Ballyalley 2,195 Darrin9999 1,615 Round 6: Brain Quiz Scores This was a participation round; there were no "proper" scores. Playing the three games earned points like this: Mindbreaker = 3 Points, Maxit = 3 Points, Hangman ("One-player") = 2 Points and Hangman (Two-player) = 4 Points Ballyalley 3 + 3 + 4 = 10 Tempest 3 + 3 + 4 = 10 James Jacobs 3 + 3 + 2 = 8 Final Rounds (Including bonus points) Round 1: Cat Trax (Final Table) 1st Mark Canon 60,000 (NTSC) 10 points 2nd James Jacobs 37,960 (PAL) 9 points 3rd Milo Canon 27,940 (NTSC) 8 points * Darrin9999 25,580 7 points -- Catch-Up Round 4th Adam Trionfo 22,400 (NTSC) 7 points 5th Christopher Tompkins 21,400 (NTSC) 6 points * Tempest 19,060 5 points -- Catch-Up Round 6th Skylar Canon 17,700 (NTSC) 5 points Round 2: Space Attack (Final Table) 1st Adam Trionfo 9 + 1 + 1 + 1 = 12 points !@# 2nd James Jacobs 10 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 11 points @ * Tempest 9 = 9 points -- Catch-Up Round 3rd Mark Canon 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 9 points @ 4th Skylar Canon 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points * Darrin9999 6 = 6 points -- Catch-Up Round 5th Milo Canon 6 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 6 points Round 3: Escape (Final Table) 1st Mark Canon 9 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 1 = 11 points !$ * Darrin9999 10 = 10 points -- Catch-Up Round * Tempest 10 = 10 points -- Catch-Up Round 2nd Chris++ 10 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 points 2nd BallyAlley 7 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 8 points # 3rd James Jacobs 8 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 8 points 4th Christopher 6 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 6 points Round 4: Funky Fish (Final Table) 1st - Tempest 10 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 13 points -@$%- 2nd - Skylar 9 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 points -@--- 3rd - James Jacobs 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 9 points -@--- 4th - BallyAlley 5 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 1 = 8 points -@-$% 5th - Darrin9999 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points ----- 5th - Mark Cannon 6 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points -@--- Round 5: Space Raiders (Final Table) 1st - James Jacobs 10 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 11 Points -@- 2nd - Tempest 9 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 10 Points -@- 3rd - Ballyalley 8 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 9 Points -@- 4th - Darrin9999 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 Points --- Round 6: Brain Quiz (Final Table) Ballyalley 3 + 3 + 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 1 + 0 = 12 Points !@-$---*(- James Jacobs 3 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 1 + 1 = 12 Points !@#-%-&-() Tempest 3 + 3 + 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 Points !@-$------ Everyone, this was a really fun first season. I wasn't sure if anyone would play the mostly-unknown Arcadia 2001 console. Thanks to everyone who participated. I'll see you all in season 2, round 1 soon, where we'll be playing Space Vultures, a clone of the arcade game Phoenix. #2702 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 00:16:53 +0000 Subject: Added Space Vultures High-Quality Scans of Box, Cart, Overlay and Manual From: Adam Trionfo I have added high-quality scans of the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Space Vultures material, including an OCRed pdf of the manual, plus the following scans in PNG format: 1) Space Vultures Box (Front, Back and Side) 2) Space Vultures Cartridge (Front, Back and Top Label) 3) Space Vultures Keypad Overlay (Right and Left) 4) Space Vultures Manual (6 pages in PNG files) This material can be downloaded from Archive.org, here: https://archive.org/details/SpaceVulturesEmersonArcadia2001BoxScan02Back SpaceVulturesEmersonArcadia2001ScansandManual : UA Ltd. and Emerson Radio Corp. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive archive.org This archive includes scans of the box, manual, overlays and cartridge for the game Space Vultures for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. Space Vultures is... Special thanks to Mark Canon, who (as always!) has scanned in this material for me. He does a great job, and I'm extremely grateful that he takes the time to provide this little bit of Arcadia culture for us all. Hopefully, by the time the material for the Arcadia HSC round 8 game, Alien Invaders, is needed, we'll have figured-out a way to avoid the strange lines that appear on the edges of the scans. #2703 Date: Mon, 8 Jan 2018 01:01:40 +0000 Subject: Space Vultures for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 1 From: Adam Trionfo Season 2, Round 1 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, January 21, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Space Vultures, a game released in 1982 for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. Space Vultures is based on Taito's 1980 space-themed arcade game Phoenix (released in America by Centuri). All of the information in this posting can also be read in the AtariAge forums, here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/274033-space-vultures-for-arcadia-2001-hsc-season-2-round-1/ Here are screenshots of levels 1 and 2: There are only a limited number of videos of anyone playing Space Vultures. In the few videos that I watched, it doesn't appear that players know that a shield can be used. Here is an example of one person playing the game (under emulation, I think): https://youtu.be/ey_GvnHwg94 Emerson Arcadia 2001 - [33] - Space Vultures youtu.be En esta ocasion estas con una nave en el espacio profundo rodeado de estrellas donde tendras que disparar a unos enemigos muy fastidiosos que no paran de mov... Here is the front of the Space Vultures box: Here is the end-label of the Space Vultures cartridge: Here is the front of the Space Vultures cartridge: Here is the back of the Space Vultures cartridge: Here are the two keypad overlays for Space Vultures: As is the case with nearly all Arcadia artwork, there is a weirdness going on here that is just about inexpressible. In this case, it appears as though there is a pterodactyl versus (yet another) Millennium Falcon-like spaceship. Ah, Arcadia Artist-- where are you? I want to know the story behind these box covers! Space Vultures - Quick-Play Rules Play Space Vultures on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. The only gameplay option for Space Vultures is being able to choose which is the first screen you play first. Choose to play the first screen by pressing start just once. Shoot all the small hawks on the first screen and all the mother hawks on the second screen. We're playing for highest score. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("SpaceVultures.bin " is the filename for Space Vultures): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Post pictures of your high scores here. Space Vultures - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. I'm including Ward's information about Space Vultures on three difference systems: Emerson Arcadia 2001, Leisure-Dynamics and the French PrestigeMPT-03 release: Space Vultures Emerson Confirmed. 6k cart. 1982. #1014 (7). Unauthorized clone of "Phoenix" coin-op. One player; left side controller. Long cart. See the non-U.S. section for notes on the missing mothership stage. Space Vultures Leisure-Dynamics Confirmed. 6k. #MC1013 (7). Long cartridge. Unauthorized clone of the "Phoenix" coin-op arcade game. Missing the arcade game's "mothership" stage for legal reasons. Circumstantial evidence strongly suggests there is a version of the game somewhere that includes the missing boss level. In June of 1982 Hanimex told the U.K.-based magazine "Computer and Video Games" that they planned to have a copy of "Phoenix" ready for the initial launch of this system. LANDMARK: Atari's initial survival plans in 1982 centered on protecting their exclusive rights to "Pac-Man". This forced consumers to buy their inferior version of the game, even though many better versions did exist at the time. ("If you can't beat them, have them disqualified"?) Atari spent much of 1982 setting legal precedents regarding "Pac-Man". Many competitors were already reeling from unexpectedly slow (or no) sales during the Christmas 1982 season. Atari tried to finish them off by buying up more arcade game rights, and barring any of their competitors from being able to make good clone games. One of the second-wave of licensed games was "Phoenix". A number of companies wanted to make a home version, but once Atari bought legal copyrights, they KNEW they would be sued if they put out an infringing version of the game. Imagic tried it anyway with their "Demon Attack" game for the Intellivision. Atari sued them, citing the boss stage as the reason. Other "birds in space" games were implied to be OK, since Atari did not go after games that did not have a mothership stage. Hence the removal of this stage by the makers of this console and its games. I say "removal" since it is clear that there were no technical reasons the level could not be included. "Red Clash" has a mothership stage in it; it may even be re-used raw assembly code from "Space Vultures". SV only used 6k of code, with 2k still available. This doesn't sound like much at first, but consider that "Crazy Gobbler" fit into less space than 2k. The game "Hobo" had 5 different screens and "Jumpbug" had 12 screens, and neither of those games used more than 8k of space. German collector Stefan Piasecki collected for the TVG console back in the day, and he reports hearing the rumor even then that the game included the mothership stage. He suspects magazine reports or internal literature had described an earlier version of the game (made before Atari bought the arcade game's rights), which is why shop owners told him that the stage was there. If you look at the Emerson console's box art, you will see it implies the inclusion of a mothership stage. The use of EPROMs instead of ROMs in the USA is suspicious in itself; it implies a last-minute game code change. The recent confirmation that these games were all written in assembly language, likely shoots down the idea that the missing boss stage is merely hidden inside the existing code, simply lying dormant and unused. (See also "American Football".) Last but not least… an MPT-03 catalog for the Prestige company appears to show a screenshot of the boss stage of this game. Olivier Boisseau correctly states that this may have simply been a faked screenshot, with nothing to back it up. But it also is just as possible that it is an accurate rendering of a game that once existed and was nearly ready for its final release. With so many other arcade clones showing up in two different versions -- an early one that was a blatant arcade clone and a later one that was a post-lawsuit, "watered down," legalized version of the first game -- it stands to reason that this game likely suffered a similar fate. The point to all this is simple… Ward wants people to keep their eyes open, so we can find and archive the full ROM version. Vautour de l'espace MPT-03 (Prestige) Unconfirmed. #MG-322. AKA: "Space Vultures". A catalog by Prestige shows a screenshot of the last stage -- the mothership -- of the arcade game. See "Space Vultures" notes. High quality scans of Space Vultures box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/details/SpaceVulturesEmersonArcadia2001BoxScan02Back SpaceVulturesEmersonArcadia2001ScansandManual : UA Ltd. and Emerson Radio Corp. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive archive.org This archive includes scans of the box, manual, overlays and cartridge for the game Space Vultures for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. Space Vultures is... Here is the manual's cover: For complete information about this game, visit the above URL link at archive.org. I've included the important points from the manual here (including some broken English terms): Space Vultures - Video Game Instructions for Emerson Arcadia 2001 Cartridge No. 7, Part No. 1014 Object of the Game Watch out!! VULTURES from space are attacking your ROCKET. At start, either one of scenes, SMALL HAWKS or MOTHER HAWKS, can be chosen. Avoid the dropping bombs from the enemy VULTURES and their collidings. Fire your ROCKET to destroy them. An energy shield is provided to your ROCKET only in the combat with the SMALL HAWKS. When your ROCKET is energized, the firing from the SMALL HAWKS and their colliding cannot destroy your ROCKET. Five consecutive ROCKETS are provided to you for each game. The purpose of the game is to score as many points as possible by hitting the VULTURES. To Play the Game There are 2 different scenes of play that can be selected, SMALL HAWKS by pressing "START" button once or MOTHER HAWKS by pressing "START" button consecutively twice. However a second scene with 3 MOTHER VULTURES (See Fig. 4) will appear after all SMALL HAWKS in first scene have been destroyed. Fire your ROCKET by depressing any "FIRE" key on keyboard or squeezing any Action Switch located at the side of the hand controller (See Fig. 1A and Fig. 2) to destroy the VULTURES. To avoid the deadly bomb and collision, move your ROCKET left/right and up/down using the control of the disc/joystick on hand controller. In the combat with MOTHER VULTURES, you can control your ROCKET to move left/right only. If your firing hits the MOTHER HAWK'S wing or wing tip, the wing or wing tip becomes a SMALL HAWK which cannot be destroyed and do not attack you. But they will come back to attack you and can be destroyed in another scene after all MOTHER HAWKS have been killed. You have to hit the MOTHER HAWK'S body or another wing again, otherwise it is still alive and continues to attack you. While the combat with the SMALL HAWK, your ROCKET can be energized to protect itself being destroyed. Simply depress any "ENERGY SHIELD" button on keyboard. The color of your ROCKET will change to blue for a few seconds. A next energy shield can be set up after a short interval. The time of interval increases as your scoring point increases. Your firing or collision can destroy the enemy HAWKS but the collision does not increase the score. To maintain highest score on the screen, merely press "START" button for the next game. The highest score will displace on the bottom right corner so next player can challenge. Do not depress "reset" button, otherwise all scores will be wiped out. To Freeze (Pause) the Game This game has a freezing ability so that you may FREEZE the game whenever it is necessary until you come back to continue to play it again. Use right hand controller for freezing or unfreezing action. To FREEZE the game, press any FREEZE key on keyboard and all action will be freezed including the sound. Decrease the volume level of your TV if necessary. For UNFREEZE function, press any UNFREEZE key on keyboard and action will be resumed immediately. If volume has been decreased while freezing, be sure to increase the volume of TV back to desired level before unfreezing the game. Scoring Small Hawk (stationary) 5 points Small Hawk (flying) 20 points Mother Hawk (body) 25 points Mother Hawk's wing tip 5 points Mother Hawk's wing 10 points Space Vultures - The Mysterious Missing Mothership Level The Prestige Video Computer Game MPT-03 console, released in France, had a release of Space Vultures called Vautour de l'espace. Prestige published a game catalog that has a picture of the missing mothership level from that game. I used this tiny picture as a basis for my mothership "level" (a still image, really) that I released to the Arcadia Yahoo group on June 9, 2002. This "stage" is on most Arcadia multicarts. In 2002, Olivier Boisseau (I think), added a Prestige catalog to the old-computers.com website. Back then, scans were very low resolution. Here are the low-res scans that I used as the basis for my silly mothership creation: Here is a screenshot of the Mothership level from the screen I created: When "mothship.bin" is run on a real Arcadia, it sometimes comes up in 13-char mode instead of 26-char mode. Basically, it looks weird; like this: Turning the machine on and off again, or pressing the reset button, will fix the problem (this does not happen under the MESS emulator). The 2650 source code and other files for this mothership are attached to this posting in a zip archive. Check out the bonus points area below for various ways to earn bonus points with this mothership level. Space Vultures Gameplay Options Space Vultures has a few gameplay options, but we're just playing the game on the default setting: just press start once to play (if you press it twice in a row then you'll start on the second stage; don't do that). Space Vultures (Scoring) We are playing for the highest score. 10 points are awarded for first place, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. Space Vultures (Bonus Points): There are quite a few ways to earn bonus points this round: Space Vultures - Video Game Play - (1 Point) - I didn't find any proper gameplay video this game being played on real hardware (I'm pretty sure that all the videos of this game that I did find were made using emulation). Anyone who makes a video of a complete game being played on real hardware will earn one point. Please make sure to show that there is an energy shield available (press buttons 1, 4 or 7 on the left controller). Space Vultures - Video Review - (2 Points) - I didn't find any reviews of this game. I'd really like to see some quality video that talks about the gameplay. Anyone who reviews Space Vultures will earn two points. Note that a video review has the extra point built-in that would otherwise be awarded for a gameplay video. Space Vultures - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - As we've been discovering for ourselves, Arcadia games can be flaky. If anyone finds any problems, and documents them, then they will earn one bonus point. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Space Vultures - Backstory - (1 Point) - Space Vultures doesn't provide a backstory. I guess one isn't needed for this game, but it might be fun to write one anyway. Write a background that may have been included with the game in 1982 and you'll get a bonus point. Space Vultures - "Play" Mothership Level - (1 Point) - Anyone who tries out my mothership level on real hardware or under emulation (and provides a screenshot) gets a bonus point. This is dead simple; everyone should get this point. Space Vultures - Play and Integrate Mothership Level (10 Points!!!) - Special Note: This programming challenge is open for all of season 2 (which is all of 2018!!!). Somewhere out in the world there may be a prototype of Space Vultures that has the mothership level built into it. Anyone who builds the mothership level into Space Vultures in a gameplay style like the arcade game Phoenix, and makes this missing third level fully playable in no more than 8KB, will get ten bonus points. Hell, maybe even more bonus points-- this might be negotiable, as this isn't a trivial task! This isn't a simple undertaking, but it might be fun to do for those very few people with the proper skill set! Summary I first played Space Vultures in about 2002. I didn't find it to be a great game, but it isn't bad either. It's simple and it works. I also don't recall any bugs, but it's been a long time since I've played this game for anything more than a few passing moments. Fifteen years ago I was hooked on Space Vultures for a little while. That's why I devoted some time to creating the static mothership screen. I wish that I had the programming chops to get this missing level into the game. I think if you give this game a chance that you'll have fun with it. So, give it a go; what can you lose? This season is just starting, so jump right in from the beginning of round 1 and have some fun beating the feathers out of these space birds! #2704 Date: 13 Jan 2018 21:35:59 +0000 Subject: Re: Help with Arcadia Flatbed Scanning Weird "Lines" From: lennier_of_the_minbari@... I agree with the possibility of problems with the scanner hardware itself. I also suspect that the bleeding around the edges means the scanner he's using has trouble focusing on 3D objects. You need a high quality scanner to get good results scanning a thick object like a box or cartridge rather than something flat like a sheet of paper. The box would probably look better if he were willing to flatten it out. There's not much to do about the cart. In general, a dedicated scanner will work better than a cheap scanner incorporated into a printer. I get pretty good results with an Epson Perfection 4490 Photo scanner, but I'm sure there are lots of good options. #2705 Date: Sun, 14 Jan 2018 00:17:33 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Help with Arcadia Flatbed Scanning Weird "Lines" From: Adam Trionfo Paul wrote: >I get pretty good results with an Epson Perfection 4490 Photo scanner, but I'm sure there are lots of good options. Personally, I have been using a Canon Canoscan 8400F for six or seven years now for all of my scans for BallyAlley.com, other websites and many photo scans. It works great. #2706 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 21:16:47 +0000 Subject: Native Video Output of Arcadia? (For Framemeister) From: Adam Trionfo I got an XRGB-Mini Framemeister this week. I finally got the smaller-than-16GB microSD cart yesterday and upgraded the upscaler today so that the menus are in English and not Japanese. I've got a good picture with (I think) minimal lag on a HDMI computer monitor. I'm trying to get the settings on the upscaler setup properly. The Emerson Arcadia 2001's video output is NTSC. Is the signal 240p? I tried looking for a website that tells the native output of most video game consoles, but I can't find one. Does one exist? #2707 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 22:49:45 +0000 Subject: I Finally Recorded from Arcadia to SD Card From: Adam Trionfo I have finally managed to record Arcadia 2001 video using my XRGB-mini Framemeister! Here's my setup: 1) 2Ghz RF Splitter - One RF-in with 2 RF-out. One output goes to TV and one goes to demodulator. 2) Demodulator (Blonder Tongue ZDM-806)- Converts RF-in composite/audio-out. 3) Video Upscaler (XRGB-mini Framemeister) - My lovely wife bought this for me for Christmas; thanks, baby! 4) Flash Card HDMI Recorder (AVerMedia Live Gamer Portable)- Takes HDMI-input and records it to a flash card. The recording for this are .ts files. For a test, my first video was of Space Vultures. The upscaler shows all of the TV overscan, which I need to get rid of eventually, but I learned something REALLY cool about Space Vultures. When the game starts, you're not on the screen. You have to move right and then you glide onto the screen. This is mentioned in the manual, so it's not an error. On the recording I made, which shows all of the TV's overscan, you can actually see your ship WAY over on the left-hand side of the screen in the overscan area. It's pretty cool, and an unexpected surprise. I have lots to learn before I start to make videos with this new setup of mine, but at least I now have the equipment to get started. It would be ultra-cool if the Arcadia had composite out, but it doesn't-- so I'll live with what I can get out of this 1982 game console. #2708 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 23:01:47 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] I Finally Recorded from Arcadia to SD Card From: Chris Federico It's great that you've finally been able to do that, after accumulating all of the gadgets that you've been talking about! I'm just curious, as I've been searching since you sent that last group e-mail (including searching through the Arcadia 2001 User's Manual that some weird Bally fan uploaded to the Internet Archive) -- did the Emerson console's native output turn out to be 240p? #2709 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 23:10:33 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] I Finally Recorded from Arcadia to SD Card From: Adam Trionfo Chris asked: >did the Emerson console's native output turn out to be 240p? I guess the output of the Arcadia is 240p. That's the input that I'm using and it seems to work okay. Now that the Framemeister's menu is in English, not Japanese, I can work my way through it and hopefully figure-out how to use the million different settings that are available. Many of them I'm unfamiliar with right now, but I'll start to understand them as I make my way through the rat's nest that is learning-how-to-use-old-consoles-on-new-hardware. It will be fun to create review videos of the Arcadia games. For now, I'm going to have to overdub the footage that I captured, but the HD video recorder does allow for a mic to be plugged in that will record to a second track. That will be cool. #2710 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 23:21:10 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] I Finally Recorded from Arcadia to SD Card From: Kevin Bunch All game consoles into the late 90s produced an output that is equivalent to 240p. So that would count for the Arcadia too. #2711 Date: Fri, 19 Jan 2018 23:27:54 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] I Finally Recorded from Arcadia to SD Card From: Adam Trionfo Kevin wrote: >All game consoles into the late 90s produced an output that is equivalent to 240p. So that would count for the Arcadia too. Thanks for the information. 240p doesn't seem like a real "standard," so I'm a little confused about it. From my reading in the last couple of days, it seems like TVs were not designed to show this signal and 240p is a hack of sorts that started with the first video games in the 1970s. Pretty cool! #2712 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 04:27:51 +0000 Subject: Screen Repeats on Space Vultures? From: Adam Trionfo After the first screen of attacking vultures is passed, and then there are the three larger (mother) hawks, do you ever go back to the first screen, or does the mother hawk screen just loop forever...? #2713 Date: Sat, 20 Jan 2018 17:43:22 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Vultures for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 1 From: Adam Trionfo I played Space Vultures today for a few games today. I have a score to submit: Space Vultures: 2,020 (NTSC, Real Arcadia 2001) I could easy beat that score, but it's not worth the trouble. Once you get to the second screen, this game is incredibly boring because the "mother hawks" screen just repeats over and over. Also, the collision detection in this game is awful. At least it affects both the you and the baddies. They shoot through you and you shoot through them. That's great or terrible, depending on who it affects. I was playing Space Vultures with my friend last night and he thinks (and I agree) that once you reach the second screen you could probably play this game forever and get incredibly high scores. There are only a few things that make continuing forever more difficult: the already mentioned collision detection issues, hand cramping from firing over and over and complete apathy toward the game. I never used the shield, as it's awkward to press a button required to use it. Last night my friend mentioned that the "rocket's" ability to move up and down on the first level reminded him of Centipede or Gorf. He's right: UA Ltd. didn't mind borrowing ideas from everybody else. It's just too bad that they couldn't manage to put their own spin on those copied ideas. Space Vultures is a 6KB game. Many games for the Arcadia are 2KB or 4KB. What was that extra ROM storage used for? Graphics? It's really a shame that the mothership stage is missing from this game, as it would have given the game a little more variety-- and it truly needs it. This is a perfect round for someone to join, because if you're willing to put in the time, then anyone probably could grab first place! For me, Space Vultures is the worst game we've played so far in the Arcadia HSC. #2714 Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2018 00:55:15 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Space Vultures for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 1 From: James Jacobs I got a score of 2915, see http://amigan.yatho.com/SpaceVulturesHighScore.jpg >After the first screen of attacking vultures is passed, and then there are the three larger (mother) hawks, do you ever go back to the first screen, or does the mother hawk screen just loop forever...? It will go back to the first screen, but with only 0-6 enemies. You only get a screen with the full 26 enemies once, at the start of the game. I agree it is an incredibly tedious and generally awful game; the worst Arcadia game by a considerable margin, in my opinion. I found a bug; it is possible during play for your ship graphics to become corrupted. See http://amigan.yatho.com/SpaceVulturesBug.jpg . This corruption lasts until the next game. >Space Vultures is a 6KB game. Many games for the Arcadia are 2KB or 4KB. What was that extra ROM storage used for? It's very poorly coded, eg. lots of absolute jumps when relative ones could be used instead. #2716 Date: Sun, 21 Jan 2018 21:53:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Space Vultures for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 1 From: markwcanon@... I agree thus game sucks hard. It is a chore to play :P I got 2955....can't take anymore. #2718 Date: Wed, 24 Jan 2018 03:26:12 +0000 Subject: Hi-Res Scans of Alien Invaders Documentation, Box and Cart From: Adam Trionfo Thanks again to Mark Canon for providing quality scans of the documentation of the next Arcadia High Score Club game, Arcadia cartridge #8, Alien Invaders. Scans of the manual, box and cartridge are online at archive.org in various formats (PNG, pdf and jpg): https://archive.org/details/AlienInvadersEmersonArcadia2001 Alien Invaders Emerson Arcadia 2001 : UA Ltd. and Emerson Radio Corp. : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive archive.org This archive includes scans of the box, manual, and cartridge for the 4KB game Alien Invaders for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console. Alien Invaders (cart... I'll be wrapping-up the first round of the HSC tomorrow and I plan to post the information about season 2, round 2 tomorrow too. #2719 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 00:00:06 +0000 Subject: Alien Invaders Thread From: Adam Trionfo I started the Alien Invaders High Score Club thread on AtariAge here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/274719-alien-invaders-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-2-round-2/ Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 2 - Classic Gaming General atariage.com Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 2 - posted in Classic Gaming General: Season 2, Round 2 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, February 4, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Alien Invaders, a game released in 1982 for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. Alien Invaders is based on Taitos 1978 space-themed arcade game Space Invaders (released in Am... I'll wrap-up the high scores of season 2, round 1 of the Arcadia HSC tomorrow. Also, I'll post the above thread and pictures to the Yahoo group at that time. #2720 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:31:24 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Vultures for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 1 From: Adam Trionfo Season 2, Round 1 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, January 21, 2017 at 10pm MST. Four people played Space Vultures in this round. Space Vultures Scores 10 pts - Darrin9999 - 3,145 9 pts - Mark Canon - 2,955 8 pts - James Jacobs - 2,915 7 pts - BallyAlley - 2,020 Two people earned bonus points, but most folks couldn't be bothered to invest additional time into this opposite-of-delightful game. Here are this round's final standing: Space Vultures Scores (Final Table) Darrin9999 - 10 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 10 points ------ Mark Canon - 9 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 9 points ------ James Jacobs - 8 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 9 points --#--- BallyAlley - 7 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 8 points ----%- ! - Video of Game Play - ( 1 Point) [No points awarded] @ - Video Review - ( 2 Points) [No points awarded] # - Documenting Bugs - ( 1 Point) $ - Backstory - ( 1 Point) [No points awarded] % - "Play" Mothership Level - ( 1 Point) ^ - Play and Integrate Mothership Level - (10 points) [No points awarded] Special Note: Integrating the "mothership" level into Space Vultures is open all season (so, for all of 2018). This round's overall winner is Darrin9999. Please check your final score. ;-) I considered writing a backstory for Space Vultures but I couldn't see putting any additional time into this game. Final Thoughts on Space Vultures Put plainly, Space Vultures is awful. Terrible. Horrible. I'd look up more synonyms for these kinds of trash-talk words, but it isn't worth the effort or time. What's the best thing that can be said about Space Vultures? It's extremely repetitive. That in itself is not a bad gameplay element-- heck, most classic games are repetitive in some way-- but Space Vultures takes its repetitive gameplay to a whole other level with its crazy idea of shooting just three "mother hawks" over and over and over again. Why not, at least, bring us back to the first level? I'm rather sure that anyone, without much practice at all, could play this game forever. Nobody did that during this round. Why? Because no one playing Space Vultures hates themselves quite that much. I think that Mark Canon summed up this game best when he said, "Can't take anymore." James Jacobs also didn't hold any punches when he said, "[Space Vultures is] the worst Arcadia game by a considerable margin." Could the missing mothership level have made this game better? Nope. Next Round's Game: Alien Invaders The main game for Round 2 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club is Alien Invaders, a three-minute, timed-play, Space Invaders-type game. Surely, you can find three minutes in your day to play this demo-like game. Come and join us in round 2, here: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/274719-alien-invaders-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-2-round-2/ Thanks for playing in round 1, everyone! I apologize to the other three players who had to put up with Space Vultures. The best way to look at this game kindly is to understand (deep down) that playing the good games and the bad games (and the truly crappy games like Space Vultures) allows us to appreciate those good Arcadia 2001 games even more. Right? Right?!? RIGHT?!? [Adam runs out of the room screaming !] #2721 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:37:26 +0000 Subject: RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo On the AtariAge forum, posted January 24, 2017, 9:21 PM, "stupus" said: The catalog picture is from the tunix home arcade catalog out of new zealand. The line of white box Emerson titles are the pal series Emerson made for the Australian market. It appears the console and all the games except the 4 Bandai exclusives were all made by universal appliances limited in Hong kong. An old company that made cheap appliances, radios etc. It seems totally their baby. Guess they decided to jump into gaming and release a cheap console based on the signetic's chips. I believe the generic home arcade release and that game line was their own and they then let just about anybody they could find distribute it for them. They are actually still around today :) Seems a lot of companies kept the home arcade wording but many also didnt. They then went on to port their most popular games to the 2600 and apparently failed there too. It's unclear if any of those actually ever sold at retail....if so it had to be next to none that made it out the door. :) #2722 Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2018 17:34:42 +0000 Subject: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Season 2, Round 2 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, February 4, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Alien Invaders, a game released in 1982 for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. Alien Invaders is based on Taito's 1978 space-themed arcade game Space Invaders (released in America by Midway). For such a very simple game, there really is a huge amount of information in this post. You don't need to read it all (just pick up the controller and start firing-away at the baddies!), but if you're interested in the game's history, then you'll enjoy this post. Here is a screenshot of the game with all the alien invaders on the screen: Alien_Invaders_Emerson_Arcadia_2001_Screenshot_Screen_01_Cropped.jpg Here is a catalog (I'm not sure for which console family-- maybe the Arcadia 2001?), that has a description of the game and artwork that I've not seen anywhere else: Alien_Invaders_Emerson_Arcadia_2001_Catalog_Scan_96dpi.jpg Here is the description for the above page of the catalog (from the "tea" reference, maybe this is from an English console release?): Seventy space invaders are fast on their way towards your city, and you can be sure they're not dropping in for afternoon tea! You have just five minutes of accelerated computer time to blast the nasties and save your city from certain destruction. There are three fortresses, behind which your missiles are safe. But watch out! These invaders are smart! If you hide there too long, they'll bombard the castle walls, so keep moving around or the evil space critters will get you, and we wouldn't wish that on anyone! Here is a video with gameplay of Alien Invaders uploaded to YouTube by "GuiasInfojuegos" on March 3, 2013. The sound in this video seems a little different from what I hear on my NTSC system. Maybe because it's being played on a PAL console? Here is the front of the Alien Invaders box: Alien_Invaders_Emerson_Arcadia_2001_Box_Scan_01-Front_150dpi.jpg Here is the end-label of the Alien Invaders cartridge: Alien_Invaders_Emerson_Arcadia_2001_Cart_Scan_03_-_Label__150dpi.jpg Here is the front of the Alien Invaders cartridge: Alien_Invaders_Emerson_Arcadia_2001_Cart_Scan_01_-_Front_150dpi.jpg Here is the back of the Alien Invaders cartridge: Alien_Invaders_Emerson_Arcadia_2001_Cart_Scan_02_-_Back_150dpi.jpg The American release of Alien Invaders has no keypad overlays. Yup, you guessed right! This artwork is just plain weird! I guess no Emerson Arcadia artwork should surprise me by now. At least this art doesn't appear to resemble a Millennium Falcon. Hey, Arcadia Graphic Artist! Can you hear me? I want to interview you! I haven't really looked much into the non-American releases of Arcadia games for the Arcadia HSC, but I was curious if any of the games have better artwork-- and some of them surely do. The following pictures of boxes and cartridges all come from James Jacob's website, Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central ( This website supports all of the Signetics 2650-based machines (Interton VC 4000, Elektor TV Games Computer, et al.). Here is alternate box and cartridge artwork for a release of Alien Invaders for the Emerson Arcadia 2001 (where was this released?): Alien_Invaders_Arcadia_2001_Box_Alternate_01.jpg alien_invaders_cart.jpg Here is the box for the German Schmed TVG 2000 (an Arcadia family console): Alien_Invaders_Schmed_TV2000_Box.jpg Here is the box for the Swiss Intervision 2001 (Ormatu family console): Alien_Invader_Intervision_2001_Box.jpg Here is the box and cartridge for the release of the game on a generic MPT-03 console: Alien_Invader_MPT-03_Box.jpg Alien_Invader_MPT-03_Cart_MG-306.jpeg Here is the cartridge for the Australian Sheen Home Video Centre 2001 (Ormatu family console): Alien_Invader_Sheen_2001_Video_Centre.jpg Alien Invaders - Quick-Play Rules Play Alien Invaders on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. There are no gameplay options for this game. Just press the Start button and begin playing. Every game lasts about three minutes, no matter how many lives you have left. We're playing for highest score. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("AlienInvaders.bin" is the filename for Alien Invaders): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Post pictures of your high scores here. Alien Invaders - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. I'm including Ward's information about Alien Invaders on two difference systems, the Emerson Arcadia 2001, and the Bandai Arcadia. Alien Invaders is also known by at least four other names: Alien, Alien Invader, Invasion aus dem Weltall, and Les envahisseurs etrangers. Alien Invaders Emerson 4k cart. 1981. #1003 (Cart #8 ). Short case. One player game; uses left side controller. Unauthorized clone of the coin-op arcade game "Space Invaders". One of the earliest games and it shows. Not a game to impress potential new console fans with! Alien Invaders Bandai 4k. Bandai #3. One player game; uses left side controller. Short cartridge. Clone of the "Space Invaders" coin-op. Manufacturing codes found printed on masked ROMs made by Signetics show this is one of the earliest carts written for the console. Without much effort, we researchers found carts dated "8103" and "8108"… in other words, weeks 3 and 8 of 1981. To put that in perspective, realize that Emerson said in an official U.S. trademark application that their first use of the console name was in March of 1982; 15 months later. Even so, the program's history goes back even farther, in some form. Back in the days of the Arcadia 2001's "prequel" console -- the "Interton VC-4000" and its clones -- Signetics had released assembly code listings of a short "Space Invaders" game, to show consumers how to write programs for that console. This Arcadia program is likely a ported and updated version of that much-earlier Interton game. It is very interesting historically because of all that, but from the point of view of a potential new console buyer during 1982, this game and others like it most likely hurt potential console sales, big time! The graphics looked awfully simple when compared to next generation machine's games, even though they were not bad compared to many earlier contemporary clones of the "Space Invaders" genre. I may go so far as to say it had the same effect on people that the Atari 2600 version of "Pac-Man" often had… to make a potential console buyer think that, "if this is the best this console can do, then I do not want to buy it." Most people had seen various better versions of the game. The white background was off-putting and not visually appealing. Sluggish game play did not help matters much. Later games proved this was NOT all the console could do, but in some markets, buyers saw the new machine show up in stores briefly, then disappear into bargain-bin and closeout sale obscurity alongside machines like the Timex Sinclair. Having seen games like this, most modern collectors figured they knew why. A handful of modern collectors saw the later games and liked them, but until 1999 or so no one knew for sure that games on MPT-03 consoles were ROM-compatible with Arcadia machines. Anyway, we can only hope that retro-gamers figure out good games can be done on this console, despite the impression of games like this. High quality scans of Alien Invaders box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/...rsonArcadia2001 Here is the manual's cover: Alien_Invaders_Emerson_Arcadia_2001_Manual_01_-_Front_Cover_150dpi.gif For complete information about this game, visit the above URL link at archive.org. I've included the important points from the manual here (including some broken English terms): Alien Invaders Instructions Video Game Instructions for Emerson Arcadia 2001 Cartridge No. 8, Part No. 1003 Your city and 6 missile launchers are under attack by 70 "invaders" who were launched by their "MOTHER SHIPS." The object of the game is to shoot down ALL THE INVADERS & THE MOTHER SHIPS before they destroy your missile launchers. You have 5 minutes of accellerated computer time showing (actual time is approx. 3 minutes) to accomplish this task. At the end of the game your score will appear at the top of the screen. It will remain in the computer memory as "HI" score until someone "beats" it. The next Higher Score will automatically replace it. This game can be played by as many consecutive players as desired. The "HI" score will remain on display as long as each successive game is triggered by the "START" button if power has not been turned "OFF." IN ORDER TO "ERASE" the HI-score you can either push the "POWER" button or push the GAME RESET BUTTON. To Begin Play You will hear musical notes and first see the MISSILE LAUNCHERS, THE CITY and THE DEFENSIVE CASTLES, in red, yellow, green and black colors. You will also see time 5.00 and 000 HI. Slowly the mother ship will appear below "000" and you will see the "INVADERS" being launched by the mother ship. The game is ready for ACTION. How to Play Since this is a "ONE PLAYER AT A TIME" game, the Left Hand Controller will be used. Pick up left hand controller with "Disc" towards you. The controller has 4 functions. Move the missile launcher to the left - depress left side of Disc (9 o'clock) Move the missile launcher to the right - depress right side of Disc (3 o'clock) Stop the missile launcher - release Disc. Fire missile - Depress side button (either one) or press digit #2. Press Start Button 1. The invaders will start moving and shooting at the missile launchers. 2. Press "Disc" for evasive action. The missile launchers can move left or right. You have 3 fortresses behind which your missiles are "safe". However, the invaders can penetrate your "FORTRESS" cover one block at a time. You can also shoot thru the fortress at the invaders. Every time your missile hits the fortress it also destroys 1 protective block. Shooting You will see on the screen a black missile on top of launcher. To shoot, squeeze either Action Switches or press # 2 on keyboard. After each missile is launched the next missile will be loaded and ready to fire. You will notice that as the invaders descend on the city- the buildings will shrink accordingly. As you hide your missiles behind their defensive castles the invaders will seek out that particular castle and "bomebard" it. So keep your missile launcher on the move. If you merely try to hide behind the "castle", the invaders will "get you". Scoring Whenever your missiles hit the invaders you will hear a "hit" sound and it will show on your score. The points are: Hit yellow invader 1 point Hit green invader 2 points Hit red invader 3 points Hit black invader 4 points Hit Mother Ship 9 points At the end of the 5 minutes, for each missile launcher you have left you receive an additional 10 points per launcher. At the end of the game your score will show. If it is the highest score, then it will also appear next to "HI." The HI score for the competition can only be removed if the RESET button is depressed or the power is turned off. Time 1. Invaders will move faster and will start descending as time goes on. 2. The game ends when all missile launchers have been destroyed or the time runs out. To Play Next Game If you wish to retain the HI-score then merely depress the "START" Button. Then continue. If you wish to erase the HI-score then merely depress the "RESET" button. The high Score will show a blank and your next score will become the Hl-score. Pausing the Game? Unlike most Arcadia 2001 games, there doesn't seem to be a "freeze" feature in this game. Alien Invaders Gameplay Options Alien Invaders has no gameplay options. Just start shooting at those terrible attackers. Alien Invaders (Scoring) We are playing for the highest score. 10 points are awarded for first place, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. Alien Invaders (Bonus Points): There are quite a few ways to earn bonus points this round: Alien Invaders - Video Review - (2 Points) - I didn't find any reviews of this game. I'd really like to see some quality video that talks about the gameplay. Because of the time it takes to make a "proper" video review, anyone who reviews Alien Invaders will earn two points. Alien Invaders - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - As we've been discovering for ourselves, Arcadia games can be flaky. If anyone finds any problems, and documents them, then they will earn one bonus point. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Alien Invaders - Backstory - (1 Point) - Alien Invaders doesn't provide a backstory. I guess one isn't needed for this game, but it might be fun to write one anyway. Write a background that may have been included with the game in 1982 and you'll get a bonus point. Summary Oh, man! Games on the Arcadia family can be so weird. Alien Invaders seems like a test case or demo game for a point-of-sale kiosk. Why would the programmers limit the game to a maximum time of three minutes? There were so many strange choices made for this console. It seems that all or most of the games were made in a rush to get them out to the companies that were selling these games all around the world. According to Ward Shrake, Alien Invaders was manufactured in the first month of 1981. That means it was programmed in mid-to-late 1980. The story behind this "1982" game console is still yet to be written! Who designed the Arcadia 2001 and when was it first created? That's enough thinking about this console's unusual roots. It's time to start playing Alien Invaders. If you've not played in a high score club round before now, then now's the time to join in! Have a fun second round, everyone! #2723 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 14:30:01 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: James Jacobs >Here is a screenshot of the game with all the alien invaders on the screen: Something is very wrong with the colours on that screenshot. >It seems totally their baby. Guess they decided to jump into gaming and release a cheap console based on the signetic's chips. Perhaps, but we have already established that most of the design work had already been done by Signetics. >[UA Ltd.] are actually still around today I don't see any evidence for that. Ward has taught me to be skeptical of such claims ;-) #2724 Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2018 11:17:43 -0500 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: markwcanon@... >Perhaps, but we have already established that most of the design work >had already been done by Signetics. By 'their baby' I mean they conceived and manufactured the console and games, I agree it was really them just buying the already designed chips and making another mediocre system with them. >I don't see any evidence for that. Ward has taught me to be skeptical >of such claims ;-) I suppose it's possible they are dissolved now but bloomberg and a few other sites still list them as current. With an address and contact man: https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=992431 I researched them years ago and found lots of interesting documents on them, a lot of that seems now gone or harder to find online. Releases on trade and asset transfers etc. Even court records when they were sued for some of their Arcadia game infringement. I should have this stuff saved somewhere hopefully. They definitely are a mysterious company. I think in the early 2000s they were absorbed by a larger conglomerate but still were considered a division under it. They started up in 1970. DVN, was a division under them that made the power supplies. I believe this stood for digital video network. Hopefully Stefan finishes his arcadia book! I look forward to any more interesting facts he has on UAL and the other groups involved! :) #2725 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 16:14:04 +0000 Subject: RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Christopher T. wrote me a personal email that said: >I played a round or two of Allen Invaders today. Man, what a slow, hard slog. Alien Invaders is stupidly shallow. On my first or second game I cleared all of the aliens. I expected them to be replaced with more aliens, but that's not what happens. That game just has the mothership at the top which I was able to shoot. Then it reappears. I was able to shoot it two or three times before my time ran out. Given the game's strict about-three-minute time limit, I'd say that the maximum score is in the 400 point range. Alien Invaders has no reply value at all. I feel terrible for anyone who bought the Arcadia and this game at full price in 1982. What a waste. Ah... long lost Arcadia programmers, what were you thinking when you wrote these games?!? #2726 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 11:34:00 -0500 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: "Lance F. Squire" On 18-01-27 11:14 AM, Adam Trionfo ballyalley@... [arcadia2001consoles] wrote: >Alien Invaders is stupidly shallow. >... >Ah... long lost Arcadia programmers, what were you thinking when you >wrote these games?!? $$$? #2727 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 17:21:51 +0000 Subject: RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Lance Squire wrote: >$$$? [The Arcadia game programmers were thinking about money/paycheck when they wrote these Arcadia/MPT-03 games] Hey, Lance. I don't remember you posting on this Arcadia forum before. Cool! Yes, I guess the in-you-face answer is that the programmers of these Arcadia games made money and that's why they created these games. Maybe the better question is why did the people who were paying the programmers not demand more from the games when they were finished (if you can even consider Alien Invaders or Space Vultures finished games). I guess it's because the Arcadia platform was inexpensive. I'm curious to hear from Christopher T. about this low-end console subject. He and I have had in-person talks about how the Arcadia was aimed at a market segment that systems like the Colecovision and Atari 2600 didn't go after. There is a very specific name for this segment of users, but I forget what Christopher called it. #2728 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 17:27:29 +0000 Subject: Re: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Here is my current (and probably) last attempt at a high score for Alien Invaders: Alien Invaders - 238 points (NTSC, Emerson Arcadia 2001, real console) In this game, I managed to destroy the wave of invaders with about fifteen or twenty seconds left on the clock (which is probably about ten seconds of real time). Another wave of invaders doesn't appear, but the mothership baddie does reappear again after you shoot it. So, my game ended with me shooting the one baddie on the screen about two or three times in a row. Yawn! One good thing about Alien Invaders is that the games are so short that you can't get hand fatigue from using the Arcadia's hand controllers. #2729 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 12:38:29 -0500 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: "Lance F. Squire" On 18-01-27 12:21 PM, Adam Trionfo ballyalley@...[arcadia2001consoles] wrote: > Hey, Lance. I don't remember you posting on this Arcadia forum before. > Cool! > > Yes, I guess the in-you-face answer is that the programmers of these > Arcadia games made money... To be fair, I thought the Bally/Astrocade invaders was bad for landing the last wave. This is worse. Still an interesting system. Using the LeasureVision variant myself. #2730 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2018 17:47:15 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >Something is very wrong with the colours on that screenshot. Really, the colors are wrong? What should the colors be? I did notice that the aspect ratio of the all the pictures that were in the initial S1,R2: Alien Invaders announcement were wrong, but the colors look pretty-much the same as they do on my TV. #2731 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 06:50:32 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: James Jacobs >Really, the colors are wrong? What should the colors be? That screenshot has blue where it should be green, and green where it should be yellow. Correct colours can be seen at http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/alienin1.png #2732 Date: 27 Jan 2018 15:49:39 -0800 Subject: RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: ctompkins1927@... I wonder at how much the programmers for these undercooked games could have helped the end result of their labors. This system and the catalog seems to have reached the crowded 1982 market in very rushed manner. I can't imagine the programmers were given very much time or encouragement to create stronger games. In regards to Alien Invaders, I think we have seen this movie before- a timed game with no second level. Reminds me of Space Mission. It almost seems like the programmers were given a task to complete a playable, one-stage game very quickly, so it could be shoved into a box with equally bad and half-finished cover art. #2734 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 00:45:55 +0000 Subject: Arcadia's Similar Games; was: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Christopher T. wrote: >I can't imagine the programmers were given very much time or encouragement to create stronger games. In regards to Alien Invaders, I think we have seen this movie before- a timed game with no second level. Reminds me of Space Mission. It almost seems like the programmers were given a task to complete a playable, one-stage game very quickly, so it could be shoved into a box with equally bad and half-finished cover art. I haven't taken a close look at the code of these games in over a decade (and even then, it was just for one of two games). However, from the way some of these game play and look, I feel that there was a lot of code reuse (James, have you got any comments on this?). This makes sense now, but I'm not sure how common this was in the industry in 1981-ish. My theory is that there were skeleton assembly language programs that had the game's timing, simple movements and such built and ready to go. The programmer(s) would simply change the code to fit their needs. This sort of programing would not have been possible to do on a system like the 2600, which required very precise cycle-counting, but it may have worked for the Arcadia. Certainly, at the very least, most Arcadia releases are very similar to each other and don't display any hints of brilliance or originality. I choose to believe that the Arcadia could have provided some great original games-- the hardware seems pretty good. The Arcadia isn't on par with the Colecovision, but it seems better than the Intellivision. Could someone please remind me when the first release of an Arcadia system came out? Was it in early 1981? Where was it released first? #2735 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 08:32:34 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia's Similar Games; was: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Chris Federico An interesting discussion: The fact that there's something fascinating about the seat-of-the-pants, creatively risky resourcefulness and economy-of-means ingenuity behind these pioneering but largely forgotten consoles -- more precisely, the fact that the Arcadia and its history are _interesting_ -- seems to be the main appeal in groups like this (or SIGs, to cop early '80s online language!). But does the console's library include games that are genuinely fun to play? These seem to be two utterly separate topics, even allowing that taste is necessarily subjective ("fun" comes down to personal preferences). The games I've played on the Arcadia 2001 -- thanks to Adam -- that I've felt are outstanding are arcade conversions: namely Turtles, which is actually a translation of Konami's 600 (an early version of the Turtles coin-op), and Jump Bug, which is easy to get hooked on, and very different from Rock-Ola's arcade original. It's also far superior to that original, in my opinion. I'm sure there are others. So there are indeed some genuine gems! #2736 Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2018 18:11:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia's Similar Games; was: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Chris++ wrote: >Does the [Arcadia] console's library include games that are genuinely fun to play? These seem to be two utterly separate topics, even allowing that taste is necessarily subjective ("fun" comes down to personal preferences). Yes, there are some fun Arcadia games in the very small Emerson Arcadia 2001 library of 22 released games. If you count the many more games that were released for the Arcadia family around the world (and why wouldn't you?) then there are even more additional good titles. I'm currently looking at a list of American releases, and I'd recommend that anyone should play the following games: Brain Quiz Cat Trax Jungler Space Raiders Spiders Star Chess The above six games are all quite good. Five of them show that the Arcadia is a pretty-damn good looking system. Brain Quiz looks (and sounds) boring, but one of the three games on the cartridge, Max It, makes it worth a try (and it's much better if you've get a second player available). I'm not saying that the other 17 games on the American release are terrible. Here are two others that are playable, but nothing special, but worthy of some game time: Escape Space Attack Here are some Arcadia games to avoid. They look good at first, but they're quite shallow or just control very poorly: Alien Invaders Breakaway (a Breakout-type game that might be better on overseas Arcadia family systems that have truer analog controllers-- comments?) Space Mission (our next game in the HSC-- that's three stinkers in a row) Space Vultures I have much less experience with the rest of the games in the Arcadia American-release library. Some of those games, like the sports titles, I would probably never play at all, but the high score club will give me a reason to try them out-- so that's cool (or maybe that's both good and bad at the same time?). I think that Stefan liked Red Clash enough that in the early 2000s he was working on trying to get a modern port of the game for Windows. Whatever happened to that project? Ah... now the other non-US-released games. There are about 35-40 additional games for the Arcadia that were not released in the States. That's a lot of games, and some of them are quite good. I have no idea how to play some of them (for example, what's going on in Doeaemon?!?) and others might be better if I played them more. Here are some of my favorite non-U.S. releases: Astro Invader (this port is better than the arcade game!) Funky Fish Hobo Jumpbug (as Chris already said, this is another game that's best when played on the Arcadia) Macross (a rare case of a game's rarity not corresponding to the game being awful. Sometime "soon" I plan to review this excellent game and compare it to Robotech) Robot Killer Route 16 I don't know enough about most of the non-U.S. game releases to comment on some of the poorer titles, so I'll just leave that subject alone. Well, maybe not completely alone. The recently unearthed 3D Attack cartridge has graphics that look fantastic and the game even plays okay, but is too hard for its own good. Like many Arcadia games, the graphics far outweigh the game's overall quality. Which is exactly the opposite on the Atari 2600, which is a system that has some games with overly-simple graphics that hide a game that might have wonderful gameplay. A few homebrew games have been written for the Arcadia, but I have limited experience with those games. Can anyone fill-in us in on this area of the Arcadia? Does anybody else care to make some comments on the games in the Arcadia family? While we're on the subject of good games, does anyone want to add comments on the earlier Interton VC-4000 (1292 Advanced Programmable Video System) library of games? That system seems to really be beloved in Germany. Sadly, the only proper was to play those VC-4000 games is on real hardware, as James said that WinArcadia doesn't emulate this system properly (although, at least, you can get an idea of what the games look and play like under emulation). To bring this all back around to Chris' theme: certainly the Arcadia 2001 isn't a platform for everybody. Most people could get along without it, even hardcore game system collectors, but for those who are looking for a system that's a little different from the rest of the pack, has a history that's shrouded in weirdness and shadows, then the Arcadia might just be the console you've been dreaming to own all of these years that you've been filling-up your garage, attic, cellar and spare bedrooms with lesser systems. Ahem. There might be some sarcasm there, but not as much as you may think. The Arcadia is a neat system, and I don't regret owning (and playing!) it for one second. #2737 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 05:46:16 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia's Similar Games; was: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: James Jacobs >Could someone please remind me when the first release of an Arcadia system came out? Was it in early 1981? AFAICT not until 1982. Eg. the first game review for the system (Cat Trax on Hanimex HMG5000, in this case) in C&VG magazine was not until December 1982. Crazy Gobbler and Space Attack were definitely not programmed until 1982 (source: ASCII strings in the game ROMs). >I'm sure there are others. So there are indeed some genuine gems! Super Bug is my favourite. Capture is very efficiently coded and is fun to play. 3D Attack is quite impressive. Circus, Combat, Super Gobbler/Nibblemen/Devilman, etc. are good. Most of the best games weren't released until after the console had launched, and in the case of the USA, never released at all. >I feel that there was a lot of code reuse (James, have you got any comments on this?). Well, Chris Capener (Funky Fish coder) said in his interview: "It was pretty much learn as you go. I believe that some utility routines and sample code came with the development system." I haven't noticed many similarities that can't be explained by the fact that there are only a couple of efficient ways of writing certain pieces of code. It would be cool to invent some tool that can do automatic code style analysis for 2650 software; Ami/WinArcadia can tell you if the game is using inefficient instructions etc. but that's as far as it goes, for now. Even if there was a lot of code reuse, I don't think it would really explain why Alien Invaders etc. only have one level, that's a game design issue. #2738 Date: Mon, 29 Jan 2018 07:48:50 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia's Similar Games; was: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: James Jacobs I uploaded my score of 493 to http://amigan.yatho.com/AlienInvadersHighScore.jpg I may try to improve on it in a few days as it is not a perfect score by any means. I must admit I am rather fond of this game, maybe that is just nostalgia though!? I think it may have been the pack-in game for the Tempest MPT-03. The "shooting the formations" part is fun, once that is done it gets rather monotonous, it's a bit like Space Vultures in that regard, you only get one screen of fun :-) At least Alien Invaders has the time limit to make it more interesting. It probably wouldn't be hard to alter Alien Invaders to have multiple levels. As far as bugs/quirks, there are quite a few that have been known for a long time (eg. wrong castle segments disappearing when shot) but I didn't find any new ones. >Breakaway (a Breakout-type game that might be better on overseas Arcadia family systems that have truer analog controllers-- comments?) It's no better. It doesn't make use of the analog stick to eg. allow faster/slower movement with more/less extreme stick positions. >what's going on in Doraemon? It's much like Route 16. Run around collecting things while avoiding the yellow creatures. >A few homebrew games have been written for the Arcadia, but I have limited experience with those games. Can anyone fill-in us in on this area of the Arcadia? I wrote JTron and Frogger, I will be the first to admit they are a bit crap though :-( Frogger has some bugs on the real machine. There is also Tetris which was done by Peter Trauner. >The Arcadia is a neat system, and I don't regret owning (and playing!) it for one second. Same here, it is certainly better than consoles like the Atari VCS. >does anyone want to add comments on the earlier Interton VC-4000 (1292 Advanced Programmable Video System) library of games? Overall not as good as most Arcadia games, but I haven't had a chance to evaluate some of them properly due to compatibility issues. I like Head On, Hunting/Shooting Gallery, Draughts, etc. >WinArcadia doesn't emulate this system properly That's the highest priority for future development in the next few months, I've been putting it off but not for much longer ;-) #2739 Date: Tue, 30 Jan 2018 18:05:43 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia's Similar Games; was: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >It probably wouldn't be hard to alter Alien Invaders to have multiple levels. It would be cool to see this Alien Invaders "fixed" with multiple levels. However, just adding more waves probably wouldn't improve the game. The time limit needs to be eliminated too. And the game needs to be made harder. >As far as bugs/quirks, there are quite a few that have been known for a long time (eg. wrong castle segments disappearing when shot) Where are these "known" Arcadia game bugs listed? I'm sure you have them listed on your website someplace, right? >[Doraemon is] much like Route 16. Run around collecting things while avoiding the yellow creatures. Oops. I got my game names mixed up. I meant to ask, "What's going in in Dr. Slump?" >I wrote JTron and Frogger, I will be the first to admit they are a bit crap though :-( Frogger has some bugs on the real machine. You don't give yourself credit, James. You may have "only" have written two games for the Arcadia, but you've written many programming examples! >[The Arcadia] is certainly better than consoles like the Atari VCS. Hardware wise, I'd saying that the Arcadia is better than the Atari VCS... but in the area where it really counts, games, the VCS beats many (most... all?) classic consoles from the late 1970s and early 1980s. The new homebrew Atari 2600 games aren't even constrained by the system's hardware either. Some of the newest games for the 2600 have access to up to 64K ROM, far more RAM (up to 64K, I think-- that sure beats 128 bytes!) and, from what I understand, chips (possibly FPGA) on the cartridge boards that can be used to speed-up the 2600. >That's the highest priority for future development in the next few months, I've been putting it off but not for much longer ;-) It would be cool to see working VC-4000 emulation. Would this "automatically" get the emulation of the TV Games computer working better too? #2740 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 02:17:33 +0000 Subject: Fw: TV Color Range? was: RE: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC [...] From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >That screenshot has blue where it should be green, and green where it should be yellow. I adjusted my TV's tint and color settings and got my Alien Invaders colors to look mostly-like the Arcadia emulator's colors. They're not quite right, but at least all of the colors are, well, the correct colors. However, the TV that I use with the Arcadia 2001 was already adjusted to "correct" using my Atari 130XE hooked up to the same TV with s-video and/or composite cables and a simple color bar that is generated from the Atari. The colors on the Atari look perfect on the TV, but now that I've gone and changed the picture settings (tint, color, brightness and contrast) and for the Arcadia, the colors will look wacky on the Atari now. Is it normal for every computer/console to have its own color range which requires a TV's setting to be changed so drastically? #2741 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 07:36:35 +0000 (UTC) Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Fw: TV Color Range? From: Chris Federico Is there, by any chance, a color-adjustment potentiometer inside the Arcadia, like there is inside the 2600? #2742 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 20:05:11 +1100 Message-ID: To: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Arcadia's Similar Games; was: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 X-Yahoo-Group-Post: member; u=332338526; y=g445Kfc6k-lkotFWHaXCzq6TyJPe87paZiKfwrt4qqAPP84 X-Yahoo-Profile: minuous2 From: James Jacobs >It would be cool to see this Alien Invaders "fixed" with multiple levels. However, just adding more waves probably wouldn't improve the game. The time limit needs to be eliminated too. And the game needs to be made harder. Yes, would need some fine-tuning of the difficulty too. I would suggest probably keeping the time limit but automatically advancing to the next level once the last alien is killed. And speeding up the alien movement slightly with each level. >Where are these "known" Arcadia game bugs listed? I'm sure you have them listed on your website someplace, right? http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/index.html#compat >I meant to ask, "What's going in in Dr. Slump?" Stefan Piasecki summarised it pretty well like this: "Very novel gameplay. You are a tiny character in a comic-like city. On the top of the screen there's a UFO landing site. Two funky aliens walk around and steal parts of buildings, cars etc. and bring them to the site to create their UFO. You can walk after them and by pressing fire, you shout at them which makes them fall over and, if they carry something, they'll drop it. You can then walk over the item, pick it up and bring it back to its previous location. You are losing energy all the time. Sometimes a guy appears on the right side of the screen and leaves something that looks like a large tea-can - touch the can and you'll recover. If you lose all your energy, the aliens speed up building their UFO and once it is finished, they climb on top of it, the UFO starts and slowly it flies out of the screen." The manual has been scanned but not translated into English. >The new homebrew Atari 2600 games aren't even constrained by the system's hardware either. Well, just about any cartridge-based console can have extra hardware on the cart. Some of the Interton VC 4000 cartridges, for example, have extra RAM on the cart. >Would this "automatically" get the emulation of the TV Games computer working better too? Yes. >I adjusted my TV's tint and color settings and got my Alien Invaders colors to look mostly-like the Arcadia emulator's colors. They're not quite right, but at least all of the colors are, well, the correct colors. However, the TV that I use with the Arcadia 2001 was already adjusted to "correct" using my Atari 130XE hooked up to the same TV with s-video and/or composite cables and a simple color bar that is generated from the Atari. The colors on the Atari look perfect on the TV, but now that I've gone and changed the picture settings (tint, color, brightness and contrast) and for the Arcadia, the colors will look wacky on the Atari now. Is it normal for every computer/console to have its own color range which requires a TV's setting to be changed so drastically? It's not my area of expertise, but I don't think so. NTSC is not known for its great colour fidelity (hence "Never The Same Colour"), but it does sound like there might be a problem with the RF modulator in your Arcadia or your Atari, or perhaps some problem with the TV set itself. I'd suggest trying to view TV/video through that TV set, and/or trying the Arcadia and Atari with a different TV, to isolate the cause of the problem. #2743 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 21:49:32 +0000 Subject: Alien Invaders Bugs; was: Arcadia's Similar Games From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs said that the "known" Arcadia game are bugs are listed here: http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/index.html#compat Here are the known problems with Alien Invaders from the above listing: "Rows of aliens don't move like other Space Invaders; they sort of follow you to whatever side of the screen you are on, and the bottom row sort of get stuck. The whole thing was more like spaceys on LSD to me. After being shot it let me move completely off screen to the left and random missiles appear halfway down the screen from nowhere if you don't move out into the game area. When aliens move down a row the bottom row become stuck and move out of sync with the top rows. When you shoot the mothership [UFO] it appears on the far right of the screen for a couple of frames after explosion before beginning from left to right as normal. Often rows of aliens become out of sync by one pixel when following you left or right making it extremely hard to hit the mothership. Missiles can sometimes be seen at the far bottom of the screen for one frame. After shooting bases you cannot fire until the missile would have reached the top of the screen. Intermittently the missile on your spacecraft can be misaligned by one pixel. When aliens shoot bases the wrong blocks are removed and the same when the player shoots them. After being shot you can position yourself far left off screen; then aliens will freeze in their positions without any animation until you reappear by moving right." - Gavin Turner. The game penalizes (with a delay before the next bullet is ready to be fired) the player if the firebutton is down at the moment when the player's existing bullet is destroyed." #2744 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2018 22:07:00 +0000 Subject: Re: Arcadia's Similar Games; was: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo James Jacobs wrote: >Well, just about any cartridge-based console can have extra hardware on the cart. Some of the Interton VC 4000 cartridges, for example, have extra RAM on the cart. Many systems can have extra upgrades on the cartridge. There were many Atari 2600 games, even back in the 1980s, that had extras such as more RAM, bankswitching chips, and in the case or Pitfall II, a dedicated chip that allowed more channels of sounds and other cool extras. When I was talking about the Atari 2600 being able to have extras, I was specifically referring to the Melody Board that is sold by AtariAge for homebrewers. It's also built into the Atari 2600 Harmony flash cart. You can read more about the Melody cartridge here: https://www.atariage.com/store/index.php?l=page_view&p=atariage_melody The best example of a homebrew that uses the Melody board is probably scramble, which was released in 2016. Just to give you a feeling for what the game looks like, and how advanced the homebrew community on the Atari 2600 has become over the years, here are a few links about this game: 1) Here is a, basically a 1980s style commercial for Scramble. This is so well done! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IgxYGTisCM Scramble - Atari 2600 Homebrew www.youtube.com Scramble is a new homebrew for the Atari 2600, based on the hit arcade game! Created by Champ Games, Scramble will soon be available in the AtariAge Store. http ... 2) Here is Scramble gameplay footage (from an emulator, I think): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rmlZjlvdZ1U Scramble Gameplay - Atari 2600 Homebrew www.youtube.com Scramble is a new homebrew game for your Atari 2600 from AtariAge.com: https://atariage.com/store/index.php?... Pilot your starship through a hostile, alien terrain ... 3) Here is a full third-party review of Scramble. Note that the captured footage in this video doesn't look nearly as good as the game looks on real hardware: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=etNF2AZkDbs Scramble Atari 2600 Homebrew by CHAMP Games www.youtube.com This is my review of the Scramble homebrew release for the Atari 2600 by CHAMP Games. ROM download: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/245610-scramble-2600/?hl ... I'd sure love to see someone design a homebrew cartridge like the melody cartridge for the Arcadia or the Astrocade! #2745 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 22:54:08 +0000 Subject: Re: Alien Invaders for Arcadia 2001 HSC: Season 2, Round 2 From: Adam Trionfo Season 2, Round 2 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, February 4, 2017 at 10pm MST. Three people played Alien Invaders in this round. That's not many people, but I don't blame anyone who skipped this round-- this game is rather limited. Alien Invaders Scores 10 pts - James Jacobs - 493 9 pts - Iwantgames:) - 265 8 pts - BallyAlley - 238 Two people earned bonus points. Here are this round's final standing: Alien Invaders Scores (Final Table) James Jacobs - 10 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 11 points -@- Iwantgames:) - 9 + 0 + 0 + 1 = 10 points --# BallyAlley - 8 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 8 points --- ! - Video Review - (2 Points) [No points awarded] @ - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) # - Backstory - (1 Point) This round's overall winner is James Jacobs. Please check your final score. ;-) It was cool to see a "homebrew" Alien Invaders backstory; thanks for writing that background! Final Thoughts on Alien Invaders In my "final thoughts" on Space Vultures for the last round, I said, "put plainly, Space Vultures is awful. Terrible. Horrible." I'm not going to say that about Alien Invaders, but it is close. If Alien Invaders didn't have the time limit, then the game would be okay, but the short gameplay time (about three minutes!) makes this a game completely non-noteworthy. Alien Invaders doesn't have any gameplay issues, except that its core mechanic (the time limit) breaks the game considerably. Does it completely break the game? No, but Alien Invaders is about as close to a broken game as you can get without having a completely broken game. Even if only the time limit of this game was removed, then the game would be better. A three minute Space Invaders-style game isn't a bad idea, but it needs to be more manic that the game that is provided here. Next Round's Game: Space Mission The main game for Round 3 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club is Space Mission, a timed space game where you have two real-time minutes to collect four pieces of a ship and put them together in the correct order. Here is a link to round 3 of the HSC: http://atariage.com/forums/topic/275226-space-mission-for-arcadia-2001-high-score-club-season-2-round-3/ Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 - Classic Gaming General atariage.com Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 - posted in Classic Gaming General: Season 2, Round 3 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, February 18, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Space Mission, a game released in 1982 for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. The game is very simple, but the manual makes it seem overly complicated. The objec... Thanks for playing in round 2, everyone! #2746 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 23:02:11 +0000 Subject: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo Season 2, Round 3 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club will last about two weeks. This round ends on Sunday, February 18, 2017 at 10pm MST (aka Monday, 2am GMT). The game being played this round is Space Mission, a game released in 1982 for the Emerson Arcadia 2001. The game is very simple, but the manual makes it seem overly complicated. The object of this game is to collect parts of a four-piece spaceship and put them together in the correct order. Space Mission is extremely simple, but there are many frills (such as a 3D-tube launch of your drone ship) that do not affect how the game is played. Brett Weiss's mini-review of Space Mission from his book Classic Home Video Games, 1972-1984: A Complete Reference Guide, published in 2012, sums up this game very well: "The player's mission in Space Mission is to rebuild a four-piece space station within about two minutes. This is done by launching a 'droneship,' guiding it towards each piece of the station, loading each piece onto the ship, and placing the pieces in a specified pattern. Naturally, alien spaceships will attack. To ward off these pests, players must switch control to a 'commandship,' which can destroy the aliens with laser missiles. This is yet another classic videogame that contains spaceships that look like TIE Fighters, but the space station element does add an unusual twist to the first-person shooter genre." Here are three screenshots of Space Mission: Here is a video with gameplay of Space Mission uploaded to YouTube by "GameAnthology" on March 9, 2013. https://youtu.be/2URCqpoRCko Space Mission sur Arcadia 2001 youtu.be http://www.game-anthology.com/arcadia/jeux/space_mission.html Here is the front of the Space Mission box: Here is the end-label of the Space Mission cartridge: Here is the front of the Space Mission cartridge: Here is the back of the Space Mission cartridge: Here is the Space Mission keypad overlay: Here is some alternate cartridge artwork from two various non-U.S. releases of Space Mission. I think that this cartridge is for the Arcadia 2001 in Australia: Here is the box for the release of the game on a generic MPT-03 console: I'm really beginning to enjoy the various different artwork for the non-Emerson release of Arcadia 2001 console game. Space Mission - Quick-Play Rules Play Space Mission on real hardware (PAL, NTSC, and any Arcadia family systems) or use the WinArcadia or MAME emulator. There are no gameplay options for this game. Just press the Start button and begin playing. Every game lasts two minutes. We're playing for the highest score with the lowest time. This may make scoring a little difficult; we'll see how this works out during the full round. I'll make adjustments to the scoring if it seems necessary. Visit the Emerson Arcadia 2001 Central website for cartridge images and Arcadia emulators: https://amigan.yatho.com/ Here is a direct link to the Arcadia 2001 ROM images ("SpaceMission.bin" is the filename for Space Mission): https://amigan.yatho.com/games.rar Here are some Space Mission notes from James Jacobs' Emerson Arcadia 2001 Gaming Guide: http://amigan.1emu.net/agg/index.html#smission Post pictures of your high scores here. Space Mission - General Overview I'm using Ward Shrake's "Director's Cut" of his Arcadia 2001 section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide 7 (published in August 2002) for most of the information that is in this section. I'm including Ward's information about Space Mission on two difference systems, the Emerson Arcadia 2001, and the Sheen. Throughout the world Space Mission is also known as Mission Spaciale, Raumfahrt and Weltraum-Abenteuer. Space Mission - Emerson - 4k cart. 1982. #1019. Cartridge #9. Space Mission - Sheen - #M4. - One player game; uses left side controller. Game by "UA Limited". "Object is to assemble a spaceship in space," according to game instructions printed on the rear of the cartridge. Label art shows space ships from the movie "Star Wars". You appear to be looking over the shoulder of an "Imperial Pilot" inside a "TIE fighter". Looking out the round front window, you can see the "Death Star". The "TIE Pilot" is apparently firing on the "Millennium Falcon" space ship. High quality scans of Space Mission box, manual, and cartridge are here: https://archive.org/...rsonArcadia2001 Space Mission Emerson Arcadia 2001 : Free Download ... archive.org This archive includes scans of the box, manual, overlay and cartridge for the game Space Mission for the 1982 Arcadia 2001 game console.In this timed game, you... Here is the manual's cover: For complete information about this game, visit the above URL link at archive.org. I've included the important points from the manual here (including some broken English terms): Space Mission Instructions Video Game Instructions for Emerson Arcadia 2001 Cartridge No. 9, Part No. 1019 Object of the Game 1. Your mission is to build a space station in the limited 2 minutes time. 2. The space station is divided into 4 pieces and each piece is floating in space. 3. You have to launch a "DRONE SHIP" to "LOAD" (PICK UP) and "UNLOAD" (DROP) the pieces at the appropriate spot to build the station, while you are at the bridge of a Mother Ship. 4. There will Alien Fighters Firing at your DRONE SHIP. Steer your DRONE SHIP to keep away from the gunfire. 5. If the DRONE SHIP is destroyed by the gunfire, another can be launched. There is no limit to how many DRONE SHIPS can be launched. 6. While building up your space station, you can shoot your laser gun at the Alien Fighters. However, you can shoot your laser gun only when your DRONE SHIP is unloaded. 7. Mission will fail if you can't build the station in the limited 2 minutes time. 8. Score will be given if mission is completed within minutes, according to the following formula. 9. SCORE = 100 x (MINUTES LEFT) + 1 x (SECONDS LEFT) + 10 x (ALIEN FIGHTERS DESTROYED) + 100 To Start the Game 1. Press POWER Switch to "ON" Position, the red POWER light will be lit. 2. Press "RESET" button, the "SPACE MISSION" will shown in screen. The upper Left corner shows the space station to be built (see fig. 3). 3. Press "START" button to start the game. To Play the Game 1. Once the game has started, you are at the bridge of the Mother Ship and have a 360 degrees view of space. Steer the Mother Ship by pressing the control disc in direction you want to fly. 2. To fire Laser Gun - Press "FIRE" button on the overlay Laser Gun will keep firing as long as you press the "FIRE" button. Press disc to steer the Mother Ship and aim at the Alien Fighters. 3. To launch Drone Ship - Press launch button. A close up take- off view of the Drone Ship will be shown and take off engine sound will be heard. 4. To Control the Drone Ship - Use control disc to steer the Mother Ship. Both Drone Ship and Mother Ship move. Press "STEER" button on the overlay and use the stick control to control direction. This allows you to steer the Drone Ship only. The Mother Ship will stop moving. 5. To pick (LOAD) the space station pieces - steer the Drone Ship to the piece you want to pick up, then press "LOAD" button. When the piece is loaded it will change color. Carry the piece to the desired place and drop it by pressing "UNLOAD" button. Try to bring it to connect to the piece you want to join. If "UNLOAD" button does not release it then try to match it closer to the other piece. Continue this action until the 4 pieces have been put together in correct order (according to original view, see fig. III). 6. To review the status and score of the game, press "SCAN" button on the overlay. This will show you the time left and status of Alien Fighters. To return to the bridge view, press "BRIDGE" button. (This will not function when the Alien Fighter is firing.) 7. If you complete the assembly of the space station within 2 minutes time. A "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" will appear and your score will be revealed. Congratulations! 8. If you fail to complete the assembly in the two minutes time, try again. Good Luck and Happy Space Mission. NOTE: This is the way the assembled Space Station should look after you have successfully put all the pieces together. Space Mission Gameplay Options Space Mission has no gameplay options. Just start collecting the parts of the ship and put them together in the correct order as quickly as you can. Space Mission (Scoring) We are playing for the highest score with the fastest time. 10 points are awarded for first place, 9 for second, 8 for third, etc. Space Mission (Bonus Points): There are quite a few ways to earn bonus points this round: Space Mission - Video Review - (2 Points) - I didn't find any reviews of this game. Maybe because the game is so short? I'd really like to see some quality video that talks about the gameplay. Because of the time it takes to make a "proper" video review, anyone who reviews Space Mission will earn two points. Space Mission - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) - As we've been discovering for ourselves, Arcadia games can be flaky. If anyone finds any problems, and documents them, then they will earn one bonus point. Just in case there are dozens of bugs, you can only earn one bonus point no matter how matter bugs are found. Space Mission - Backstory - (1 Point) - Space Mission doesn't provide a backstory. I guess one isn't needed for this game, but it might be fun to write one anyway. Write a background that may have been included with the game in 1982 and you'll get a bonus point. Summary What is it with the Arcadia 2001 and timed games? Were these sorts of games easier to create? I completed a full game of Space Mission today for the first time. There isn't much to this one. I wouldn't say that this game is bad-- it just seems like a missed opportunity because it's far too short. There could have been so much more to this game if a little more time had been spent on it. But, like nearly all other games on this console I've played so far, time spent on gameplay was not a "luxury" granted to Arcadia 2001 games. It's time to start playing Space Mission. This game is very short-- you'll complete your first game nearly before you start playing it. I'm curious if playing this game against other people will make it feel a little more competitive and keep me coming back for just one more game to shave off a second or two or maybe to score a few more points. If you've not played in a high score club round before now, then now's the time to join in! Have a fun third round, everyone! #2747 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2018 23:06:17 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo Here is my first score for round 3: Space Mission: 215 points, Time Left: 1:15 I have no idea if that is a good score or not. I didn't shoot any of the baddies; I only assembled the ship. #2748 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:23:33 +0000 Subject: R2D Tank; was: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo On February 9, 2018 at 2:49 PM, on the AtariAge forums, "Iwantgames:)," said: >On a side note this emulator is evil! I played R2D Tank and then I had to go to eBay and buy it lol I responded with the following there: R2D Tank is a 1981 arcade game released by Venture Line, Inc. This is a release of Sigma Enterprise's Japanese game Red Tank. Like a few other titles, the Emerson Arcadia is the only console that got a home port of this game. It's a 4K ROM cartridge. R2D Tank wasn't released in America, but according to Ward Shrake's Arcadia section of the Digital Press Collector's Guide, it has confirmed releases from Bandai, Leisure-Dynamics, Schmid, and Tunix. It may also have been released by GiG Electronics. As is so often the case with boxes for these Arcadia games, there aren't any quality scans of the box, cartridge and manual of this game. Here is the very low-res box from R2D Tank: Here is the description for the game from, I think, the Tunix catalog: I did manage to find a half-decent picture of the Bandia version of the cartridge, which sold on Ebay on January 17, 2018. I cleaned the picture up a bit before posting it here: I was surprised to see that the Bandia version of the game has the same artwork at the other versions. I presumed that since the four Japanese-only released games have much better artwork, that Bandai re-did the artwork for their other releases. Given the history of the Arcadia, I shouldn't be surprised that this isn't the case! In case you're curious, here is the original arcade flyer for Red Tank: That flyer sure is sweet! Here is a video of the arcade game being played: https://youtu.be/RfWbn9GYYYY R2D Tank [MAME] [shortplay] youtu.be AUTHOR: Progetto VideoSnaps by motoschifo & AntoPISA [gameplay by adolfo69] GENRE: MAME video preview (shortplay) COMMENTS: Created with: Mame version 0.162 ... This post sure has gotten off the subject of Space Mission, hasn't it? Hmm... maybe I should mix-up the high score club a little bit. The original idea was to first play the 22 games that were released by Emerson in the United States, but we're missing out on many games, including many of the best ones. Soon we'll be playing most of the sports titles one after the other, which will be a drag. Perhaps in the next round we'll play R2D Tank. Any thoughts on this idea? #2749 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:34:47 +0000 Subject: Star Chess in High-Res Mode From: Adam Trionfo I accidentally chose the wrong dip-switch setting on Ward Shrake's Arcadia multicart two days ago when I was playing the Arcadia. Instead of the game I picked starting, Star Chess came up instead. No big deal. Star Chess is a game that uses the Arcadia's low-res mode. When I went to change the dip-switch settings for the game I actually wanted to play, I jiggled the cartridge in its slot and somehow managed to put the system into high-res mode. Look at this strange-high-res version of Star Chess: If you change the dip-switch settings on the multicart cartridge while the system is turned on, you can sometimes get some pretty strange results. Pretty neat, right? #2750 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 01:58:44 +0000 Subject: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo My friend Christopher T. was over here two days ago. We spent some time playing various Arcadia games, including a few games of Space Mission for this round's High Score Club. I managed to beat the game in 29 seconds! It's probably possible to beat that time by shaving off a second or two, but it wouldn't be easy, plus it would only increase the score by one point per second. Here is my score: Space Mission - 231 points in 29 seconds (NTSC, Real Emerson Arcadia 2001) I did massage the above image a little bit because a refection of Christopher's face was plainly visible in this screenshot. It is much-less noticeable now. I didn't manage to destroy any enemy ships in this very short game. For the maximum score, I guess the best way to play will be to get some combination of a short game while also destroying some enemy ships. Christopher asked me how scoring would work in this game. I mentioned in the first post that I wasn't sure exactly. Here's what I've decided: Space Mission Scoring 1. Time - The fastest time is worth up to five points. 2. Score - The highest score is worth up to five points. 3. Complete Games - Only completed games count for the high score club's maximum point score. If the ship is not assembled, then 1 point will be subtracted from the score total. Meaning even the top score and time would only be worth nine total points. The reason that only completed games count for maximum points in score is that otherwise you can disregard assembling the ship altogether and just shoot aliens, which may allow an unrealistic score to be reached. #2751 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 02:06:46 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo I forgot to include the screenshot of my score: Space Mission - 231 points in 29 seconds (NTSC, Real Emerson Arcadia 2001) #2752 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 23:48:32 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo I destroyed three baddies and got a slightly higher score: Space Mission - 253 points in 37 seconds I don't think that there is much room here for improvement and still being able to finish the game. #2753 Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2018 23:57:51 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo When you enter the Scan mode from the keypad in Space Mission you get some additional information. None of it is useful to the player, but it does add some atmosphere to the game. There are two enemy ships in the game. On the Scan screen, the Class A Fighter looks like a typical saucer-shaped UFO: The Class B Fighter looks like, well something I've seen before, but I can't remember where...: The Scan screen also acts as a game pause, as no game time passes while your on this screen. Do the horizontal and vertical positions given as information under "Detected Ahead" have any meaning in this game? Or, are they there just for atmosphere? I wonder if the programmer of this game had more in mind when it was being created? #2754 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2018 05:27:00 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: James Jacobs >Do the horizontal and vertical positions given as information under "Detected Ahead" have any meaning in this game? Yes, it's the position of the enemy ship. The coordinates given are relative to the bottom left corner (ie. vertical increases near the top of the screen). But of course it is a completely pointless feature as you can see its position anyway on the main screen :-~ It's unfortunate that that ROM space had not been used to make the actual game more interesting and varied. >Hmm... maybe I should mix-up the high score club a little bit. The original idea was to first play the 22 games that were released by Emerson in the United States, but we're missing out on many games, including many of the best ones. Soon we'll be playing most of the sports titles one after the other, which will be a drag. Perhaps in the next round we'll play R2D Tank. Any thoughts on this idea? I don't mind. One possibility would be to have the winner of each round choose the game. #2755 Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2018 19:50:17 +1100 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: James Jacobs My highest score was 322, see http://amigan.yatho.com/SpaceMissionHighScore.jpg My fastest time was 21 seconds, ie. 1:39 remaining, see http://amigan.yatho.com/SpaceMissionFastTime.jpg As for bugs, there is the already-known bug that most of the non-sprite contents of the screen (stars, space station pieces, etc.) flicker except when they are in the top 8 pixels or so of the screen. I'm not sure if it also happens on NTSC machines. And some questionable design designs such as the constant beep on the title screen, which some might assume is a bug but is probably intentional (I haven't checked the code). #2756 Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2018 20:07:42 +0000 Subject: Re: Space Mission for Arcadia 2001 High Score Club: Season 2, Round 3 From: Adam Trionfo Season 2, Round 3 of the Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club ended on Sunday, February 18, 2017 at 10pm MST. Four people played Space Mission in this round. This is a very low-scoring game, so the following score, which look like we're all terrible at the game, are actually quite good: Space Mission Scores 5 - James Jacobs - 322 points in 1:58 seconds 4 - Bally Alley - 253 points in 37 seconds 3 - Christopher T. - 233 points in 37 seconds 2 - Iwantgames:) - 262 points in 4x seconds (time left: 1:1x) Space Mission Completion Times 5 - James Jacobs - 239 points in 21 seconds 4 - Christopher T. - 231 points in 29 seconds 3 - Bally Alley - 253 points in 37 seconds 2 - Iwantgames:) - 262 points in 4x seconds (time left: 1:1x) Two people earned bonus points. Here are this round's final standing: Space Mission Scores (Final Table) James Jacobs - 5 + 5 + 0 + 1 + 0 = 11 points -@- BallyAlley - 4 + 3 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points --- Christopher T. - 3 + 4 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 7 points --- Iwantgames:) - 2 + 2 + 0 + 0 + 1 = 5 points --# ! - Video Review - (2 Points) [No points awarded] @ - Documenting Bugs - (1 Point) # - Backstory - (1 Point) This round's overall winner is James Jacobs. Please check your final score. ;-) It was cool to see a "homebrew" Space Mission backstory; thanks for writing that background! Even a very short story makes a nice addition to the game. I'm not happy with how points were awarded for time and score this round. The scoring system is the best thing that I could come up with for this game. Final Thoughts on Space Mission This game is too short, which is a shame, as there seems to be so much lost potential here! Next Round's Game: Missile War The main game for Round 4 of Arcadia 2001/MPT-03 High Score Club is Missile War, a game similar to Missile Command. Due to events beyond my control, the next round is delayed for about a month. I'll try to start round 4 up at the end of March. Thanks for playing in round 3 and please stay tuned here for the announcement of round 4. The HSC is not dead, but it must be put on a back burner for now. #2758 Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:31:37 +0000 Subject: Space Mission / Star Wars Art Comparison From: Adam Trionfo While I was visiting Ward Shrake last week, we found the source art for the Arcadia 2001's Space Mission game. It's a complete copy of pre-production Star Wars artwork by Ralph McQuarrie. The original artwork shows a Tie Fighter attacking the Millennium Falcon, as the Death Star Looms. I made a side-by-side comparison of both pieces of artwork. See for yourself! How much other Arcadia 2001 art uses another source for "reference?" #2759 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 18:30:38 +0000 Subject: Space Mission - Long Cart? From: Adam Trionfo Does anyone have a long cart version of Space Mission? If so, then I'd like a scan of it, as the artwork on the Star Wars-inspired box is cropped. #2760 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 18:34:28 +0000 Subject: Red Clash - Long Cart? From: Adam Trionfo Does anyone have a long cart version of Red Clash? If so, then I'd like a scan of it, as the artwork on the Star Wars-inspired box is cropped. (Yes, I just asked for a scan of Space Mission too. These three games: Space Attack, Space Mission and Red Clash have artwork that is, let's just say HIGHLY inspired by Star Wars. By "inspired," I mean completely ripped-off.) #2761 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 17:41:03 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Red Clash - Long Cart? From: markwcanon@... I have a long cart of red clash. I can't recall any long cart version of space mission though #2762 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 00:53:19 +0000 Subject: Re: Red Clash - Long Cart? From: Adam Trionfo Mark wrote: >I have a long cart of red clash. Could you please scan your Red Clash cart at 300dpi for me? I plan to make a picture of the various cartridges/boxes that rip-off Star Wars models. >I can't recall any long cart version of space mission though. Maybe there isn't one. I don't think that there is a definitive list of which carts were available in both long and short styles. Now that I think about it, I don't think there is a "non-definitive" list of long/short carts either. #2763 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 21:01:06 -0400 Subject: RE: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Red Clash - Long Cart? From: markwcanon@... Yes, I can make a scan of red clash ;) Do you know of any carts that are confirmed to have a version in both sizes? I can't think of any myself. All the tunix releases are long but the ones that are normally a short cart just have black in the extra label space. #2764 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 02:40:25 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Red Clash - Long Cart? From: Adam Trionfo >Do you know of any carts that are confirmed to have a version in both sizes? I can't think of any right off, but I'm sure I've seen them before, probably online at one of the Arcadia websites. I'm look forward to having fun with the Star Wars-like "Red Clash" cart scan. #2765 Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2018 22:51:20 -0400 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Re: Red Clash - Long Cart? From: markwcanon@... If anybody knows of any games existing in a long and short version I would love to know of it. I cant recall seeing any ever, but I could be wrong. I checked my space mission of these versions: emerson, pal emerson, leisurevision, Hanimex, schmid, Leonardo and they are all the short cart. It wasn't released under tunix but it was for Bandai which I don't have. It may also exist for home arcade and advision but I don't have either of those as well. I also just uploaded the red clash cart front to our shared google drive folder adam :) Enjoy! #2766 Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2018 17:21:06 +0000 Subject: Re: Red Clash - Long Cart? From: Adam Trionfo Mark Canon wrote: >I also just uploaded the red clash cart front to our shared google drive folder adam :) Thanks for the scan, Mark. The scan of the long cartridge certainly does reveal more artwork than what's available on the box. I've attached a 300dpi jpeg version of Mark's original BMP scan. I still can't believe how blatant these games rip-off art from Star Wars and Battlestar Galactica. #2767 Date: 30 Jul 2018 11:30:23 +0000 Subject: Interton and Elektor emulation improvements From: amigansoftware@... Amigan Software are pleased to announce the release of AmiArcadia and WinArcadia 24.8, featuring significant Interton-family and Elektor TV Games Computer version compatibility improvements. The Cockpit, Golf and Leapfrog games still have some problems, which will be addressed in future versions. All other Interton-family games should be 99-100% OK. We suggest you delete any compatibility-patched versions of 4 in a Row, Car Races, Come Come, Come-Frutas and Grand Prix you may have, as they are no longer needed. The emulators can be downloaded from http://amigan.1emu.net/releases/ #2768 Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2018 23:14:21 +0000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Interton and Elektor emulation improvements From: Adam Trionfo That's great news, James. What sparked your interest in revisiting this part of your emulator? (It's crazy/batty/cool/weird that you still support the Amiga platform. Was that system really popular in New Zealand, or does it just hold a special place in your heart? What sort of Amiga does it take to run AmiArcadia? Surely it won't run with any on my 68K-equipped Amiga's, right?!?) As a side note, I see that the book for the TV Games computer, now more-fully emulated in the AmiArcadia emulator, is available used on Amazon.uk. The full title of that book is: The TV Games Computer, An Exciting Introduction to Microprocessors By Paul Holmes Canterbury: Elektor Publishers Ltd, 1981. ISBN 0-905705-08-4 A link to the book on Amazon is here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0905705084/026-7944809-6730846?%5Fencoding=UTF8 There are currently two copies of the book available: £3.35 + £6.94 Delivery (Sweet!) £64.95 + £2.80 Delivery (Ouch!) It used to be hard to find this book when searching for it, was it was listed incorrectly. It took a little bit of bugging and information from me, but Amazon.uk eventually fixed the book's title and author several years ago. They also added a picture of the book that I sent to them. If you're not interested in buying the book, then the scan is always available on Jame's website, or my website: http://www.orphanedgames.com/arcadia/index.htm I'll try out the new version of the emulator sometime this week. #2769 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2018 10:07:52 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Interton and Elektor emulation improvements From: James Jacobs >What sparked your interest in revisiting this part of your emulator? It was, and is, feature-complete so nothing else to work on now except compatibility, performance and user-friendliness. The most requested "feature" by users was decent Interton emulation :-) >(It's crazy/batty/cool/weird that you still support the Amiga platform. Was that system really popular in New Zealand, or does it just hold a special place in your heart? What sort of Amiga does it take to run AmiArcadia? Surely it won't run with any on my 68K-equipped Amiga's, right?!?) Well, it would be weird if Amigan Software didn't support the Amiga, I'd have to change the name ;-) It was fairly popular in Australia, and New Zealand too I think, much more than in the USA. The emulator needs AmigaOS 3.9 (which itself needs a 68020 or better) and about of 16Mb RAM. To get it running at full speed needs a fast CPU (eg. running via WinUAE); I did try it on a real 68060 but it was too slow for playing arcade games. There are versions for AmigaOS 4 and MorphOS which are PowerPC-based and run quite acceptably. #2770 Date: 27 Jan 2019 14:20:29 +0000 Subject: New file uploaded to arcadia2001consoles From: arcadia2001consoles@yahoogroups.com This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the arcadia2001consoles group. File : /Hardware_information/MPT_03_connector.txt Uploaded by : phmarien Description : Cartridge connector on a generic MPT-03 "Prestige". A lot more signals are available on this port than generally documented, including R/W, A13 and A14, SOUND(!) and the unregulated A/C power input. It would allow for some interesting expansions, including RAM and speech carts... You can access this file at the URL: https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/arcadia2001consoles/files/Hardware_information/MPT_03_connector.txt To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: https://help.yahoo.com/kb/index?page=content&y=PROD_GRPS&locale=en_US&id=SLN15398 Regards, phmarien #2771 Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2019 15:12:44 +0000 Subject: Signetics 1977 Talk by Kam Li at Gametronics 1977 Videogame Conference From: Adam Trionfo I'm cross-posting between a couple of Yahoo groups, but I think that this book about the very first game conference, Gametronics, (from January 1977!) is worth mentioning in both the Channel F and Astrocade groups-- and now, with more details, the Arcadia 2001 group too. My top-most post talks about me picking up a book from the library today. The post under that is me mentioning the book to the Channel F group for the first time. Why am I mentioning the "Gametronics" book here? Chapter II is called "An Approach to Microprocessor-Based Game Architecture" by Kam Li, Senior Staff Engineer at Signetics Corporation. This chapter might be a clue about who might have possibly got the ball rolling onto the system that became the Arcadia 2001 (and it's many clones). This chapter by an engineer at Signetics, the company that made the 2650 CPU (which was used in the early non-Arcadia system), explains, in broad terms, how to create a Home TV Game based on the 2650 CPU. The date of the publication (1977) lines up pretty well with the 1292 Advanced Programmable Video Systems like the Interton VC-4000, which were released in 1978. #2772 Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 10:42:25 +0200 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Signetics 1977 Talk by Kam Li at Gametronics 1977 Videogame Conference From: Dennis Spreen nice catch! there is another scan (minor layout changes?) available on archive.org as well https://archive.org/details/19771GametronicsProceedings/ #2773 Date: Sat, 7 Sep 2019 22:20:10 +1000 Subject: Re: [arcadia2001consoles] Signetics 1977 Talk by Kam Li at Gametronics 1977 Videogame Conference From: James Jacobs That's a great book. I only read chapters 2 and 17 so far, which deal directly with WinArcadia-related matters, but will be sure to read the rest too. (I will have to see about adding 4-player Pong support to the emulator also, I wasn't previously aware of that feature.) It seems likely that Kam Li was involved with the design of the 2636 PVI, 2637 UVI and/or 2621/2622 USG chips. #2774 Date: 10 Sep 2019 04:25:54 +0000 Subject: Re: Signetics 1977 Talk by Kam Li at Gametronics 1977 Videogame Conference From: stefanpiasecki@... That's an awesome find mate!!! NASA was always interested in everything that would bring technology to its extremes and what else than games can make programmers literally squeeze out everything from hardware? #2787 Date: Sat, 16 Nov 2019 18:25:35 +0000 Subject: Arcadia 2001 Podcast One-Off Episode - Hobo and Jungler Reviewed From: Adam Trionfo I listen to a podcast called ARG Presents. Episode 87 was devoted to the Emerson Arcadia 2001 and the two hosts review Hobo and Jungle. Here's a summary of the podcast: "Why did the Hobo cross the road? FIND OUT this week on ARG Presents! Join THE BRENT and Amigo Aaron as we take on the futuristic Emerson Arcadia 2001 console! What the heck is this thing, and why are there so many other consoles that do the same thing?!?! You'll LEARN WHY! Then watch in amazement as we take on Jungler and HOBO! Download Mp3 (right-click and Save As) Feedback? argpresents@... Watch the show on Youtube" You can listen to the podcast here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/emerson-arcadia-2001-jungler-and-hobo-arg-presents-87/id1335710604?i=1000451987672 You can watch it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51oLEB340jA Emerson Arcadia 2001 - Jungler and HOBO- ARG Presents 87 Why did the Hobo cross the road? FIND OUT this week on ARG Presents! Join THE BRENT and Amigo Aaron as we take on the futuristic Emerson Arcadia 2001 console... www.youtube.com It a fun podcast to listen to; they don't get the facts quite right, but at least they give the system some attention (and, surprise!, they think the system is pretty good).